Popularity of LOTR... How sad...

[Eorl of Rohan]

The. movie. has. ruined. the. book.

Before LOTR was not made into a movie series, LOTR was read and enjoyed only by dedicated Tolkienists like us. However, since the movie came out - everyone suddenly began proclaiming their eternal love and devotion to the great masterwork of Tolkien, even those that scoffed at me years ago.

"I thought you hated it?" And the inevitable answer - "Well, that was when it was not made into a movie. Now I love the book, simply becuase everyone else does." And when I try to correct their dreadful mistakes - "Well, the book is wrong. If you see in the movie, it was..."

People who know almost nothing about Tolkien's world began to talk as if they were the master in the subject. In fact, LOTR was turned into a money-making, popular subject instead of a work of literature.

Would Dr. Tolkien really have wanted this? I bet he is turning in his grave in the moment. Who gave the copyrights to movie publishers anyway? *burst into tears*

[Eorl of Rohan]

I made this thread becuase I had an arguement with a so-called LOTR fan who insisted that Arwen was the spirit of the Ring. Ridiculous.

[Lyta_Underhill]

I made this thread becuase I had an arguement with a so-called LOTR fan who insisted that Arwen was the spirit of the Ring. Ridiculous. Good grief! :eek: So, like the Wicked Witch of the West, Arwen's spirit melted when the Ring perished in Mount Doom? Hmmm...I personally can't see it! :rolleyes:

I imagine that, with patience and sufficient time, the crowd of "neo-geeks" that have latched onto Tolkien and Lord of the Rings simply because it is the 'in' thing will fall off and the die-hard fans will be arguing over "how they got it wrong" in those "old movies" long from now. One good thing about the movies, though, is that they no doubt brought in the new crop of die-hards, those whose life is irrevocably enriched by their exposure to Tolkien first through the movies and then through the books and perhaps on into the vortex of the entire Legendarium. Some will be assimilated, as the Borg might say, and we will be the richer for it.

Cheers!
Lyta

[HerenIstarion]

Well, Eorl, I see how it may be annoying to get 'know-it-all' remarks from someone who really thinks Denethor was a glutton, Aragorn wavering type and Elrond bald, whilst any decent battle-winning should involve half transparent green commandos, but look at it from another angle - you are now the greates scholar among all around you, so you can teach them right, and even make someone (who was once reluctant to even go near a book shelf) actually read the books

cheers

[HerenIstarion]

And I suppose you don't get blank looks upon mentioning Legolas as one used to some years ago, eh? ;)

[Firefoot]

I know how that goes. I try to talk to someone and if I pronounce something differently than they do in the movie (Currently the big ones are Earendil, Shelob, Gamgee) then they try to correct me. And the argument on their side is "Elijah can't be wrong with the way he pronounces it so the book is wrong.":eek:

In a way I am grateful for the movies because, even though I hadn't seen FotR, one of my friends had and loaned me the Hobbit.:)

[Eorl of Rohan]

Not to mention comments like ¡°You don¡¯t even know who Elijah Wood is? And you call yourself a LOTR fan. True fans like we should be ashamed of you.¡± By a person who did not know who Luthien was. Yes, Mike actually said that to me today.

[HerenIstarion]

Do the person going under the name of Mike have an Internet access? Try sending along links to some of the movie disucssions. Working out of there, people may find their way on to the Books, and, who knows, maybe an year from now, you and Mike will be exchanging PMs concerning revised Sil editorials :). So to say, better interest someone (so far they enjoyed the movies, right?), than snap back at them "an you don't know who the second cousin of Ar-Pharazon was!".

There was a thread about flaws in the movies - I think it may be well interesting to Mike to find out that such a lot of ppl have found some parts of the movies not in accordance not with the books, but with the truth (or so Tolkien is mostly perceived by his readers)

Cheers

[Kransha]

Ok, I am not pleased by the ravenous hordes of pseudo-fans and rabid fangirls, BUT, I have not been so cruelly dealt a hand.

Those friends of mine, after seeing the movie, swarmed around me so I could tie up all the loose ends, tell them about before and after, the things they missed. This was a great advantage for me. I could just sit down, with movie fans and friends crowded around, and explain the details of Tolkein. Yes, some girls weren't pleased by the fact that Frodo was 55 and some boys thought the movie depiction of Faramir better, but they all excepted what I said because they knew I was an avid reader of everything Tolkein. They were all saddened by the loss of the Palantir for Denethor, the Scouring of the Shire, Tom Bombadil and the Barrow-Wights. It felt very good to get them genuinely interested in delving into Unfinished Tales and the Silm just to learn more.

[Noxomanus]

^^That is quite resembling my situation. I'm currently considered Tolkien expert,wich is a position I greatly enjoy. Most of the people considering me the authority have seen the movies and read The Hobbit and some LotR or only LotR but not the Hobbit and then they ask me about details they don't understand and stuff. I love that and I recommend the books whenever I have the opportunity.It's a great opportunity to point out differences with the movies and I allways answer their questions as good and understandable as I can. :)

[Mariska Greenleaf]

I have never forced any of my friends in reading the books, because if they really want to, they should make that decision themselves. Of course I praise the books whenever someone mentions the movies, but what they do with that information is up to them.

Sometimes it bothers me what commercial business Tolkien has become, but to be honest, the book hasn't changed, has it? It's still the same wonderful story, no matter what the movie made of it. If I'm confronted with "movie-people" who think they know all there is to know about the story and Tolkien, the only thing I can do is smile, and I just think by myself: "What do you know about a thing." It just doesn't matter to me.

I know what it means to me, how I feel about it, and that's enough.

I just wanna add that I do like the movies, I just consider them as a totally different thing, and that works just fine for me.

[Phervasaion]

I dont think the movies have ruined LotR at all. As someone else said earlier, the films have brought some new die hard fans of LotR and people who think they are fans. If it was not for the film then i would never have read the book and, most likely, would not know a thing about this website and would not be writting this post. What my point is, is that some of these Lotr fan wanna bes will eventually develop into proper fans and be able to get all their facts straight.

I myself am not a true die hard fan as of yet. Ive only ever red the books once (even though im reading them again at the moment) whereas alot of people on the downs read them at least once every year and know every single thing about them. I do not (yet).

[Evisse the Blue]

People who know almost nothing about Tolkien's world began to talk as if they were the master in the subject.
I know exactly what you mean, and to me this is maybe the worst part of it all. I for one, don't mind the movies in themselves anymore, although in the beginning I had a purist's attitude to them, and held very aloof, they really grew on me and one cannot deny they are masterpieces of cinematography. But to have a conversation with people who saw the movies a hundred times over and never picked up the book to see where it all came from (well, at least LOTR, if not The Hobbit, and I guess Silm is asking way too much of them) - proves highly frustrating. And such people that I know also happen to have this attitude of expert superiority and 'oh, I know best'. It's so infuriating:mad: And not only do they contradict you about stuff like pronunciation, etc, but also in terms of a character's history. For instance, one claim is that Aragorn and Legolas knew each other since...a very long time ago, possibly even since childhood. :rolleyes:

[Sapphire_Flame]

"Well, the book is wrong. If you see in the movie, it was..."
*shrivels up and dies*

Did someone actually say that?!?! Let's see, do they not realize that the books were around for a good fifty years before the movies came out? Tolkien did it right; it's his book, it was all his idea, therefore, any deviation from what he said is wrong. End of story.

Oh, and Frodo was 50, not 55. ;)

Abedithon le,

~*~Aranel~*~

[Kransha]

Arrgghh! Typo's are evil! (meant 50). Of course, fangirls still go crazy when I tell them that. That's one of those movie indentations. No matter how hard I try, no one can picture a Frodo that isn't Elijiah Wood. Same with Legolas being blond and all that.

I've only met two people who actually believe the movie is more accurate than the book. One of them actually had a very interesting argument to make about the advantages of movie Faramir (he had read the book) and I thought his views were well thought out. The other person, though, was one of those "that didn't happen in the movie so it's wrong," people. He condemned a Middle-Earth Sourcebook with a listing of the Battles of the War of the Ring because it "left out" the encounter with warg riders. He thought Tom Bombadil was just a weird fabrication of mine (he really should read the book) and...well, there are many other disturbing things he believes. Too many to mention.

[Imladris]

I don't think it's fair to say that the movies have ruined the books. It's not the movie's fault that people get on their high horse and say that they are LotR proffessors when they're not (my aunt is one of those people...drives me nuts), but that is their problem...not PJ's & Co.

everyone suddenly began proclaiming their eternal love and devotion to the great masterwork of Tolkien, even those that scoffed at me years ago.

Sometimes when people see it on screen, they understand it better and they like it better. The books are very complicated for some people and the movies simplify that. I know a lot of people don't like that but they have "introduced" true Tolkien fans. It's not a bad thing, that's for sure.

People, like me, don't have all the time in the world to read Tolkien, much less the Silmarillion.

Would Dr. Tolkien really have wanted this? I bet he is turning in his grave in the moment. Who gave the copyrights to movie publishers anyway? *burst into tears*

Well, have you ever read the Letters where some punk wanted to make an animated movie and Tolkien pointed out everything that was wrong with it? Thank goodness that PJ did only one thing listed (at least, that's what I remembered): Aragorn drawing out his sword.

Even before there were the movies, the books were the second read books across the nation. Whenever anything is popular, even in the "old" days, there's going to be things made about them, books published about them, etc. People were writing "Frodo lives" in the Subways, people were wanting to name cows and plantations after LotR, and who knows what else. It's just in a different form.

[The Saucepan Man]

I find it difficult to think of anything that has enhanced the popularity of LotR (the book) as sad. As has been said previously, of all the millions who go to see the films, a fair proportion will go on to read the book and become fans of the Professor's works.

As for those that don't, well they would never have read the book anyway, film or no film. That's their choice (and many would say their loss). At least they have witnessed a marvellously conceived vision of Tolkien's world.

And if people who have only seen the films and not read the book profess to have a greater knowledge of LotR, or seek to assert that the films rather than the book represents the "true" story, then that, it seems to me, simply displays their ignorance and/or immaturity. If you cannot win them over with what appears to me a "no brainer" argument, then I would simply delight their efforts to make themselves look foolish. ;)

[Iris Alantiel]

Amen, Saucepan. How can anything that brings more attention to the wonderful world of Tolkien possibly be all bad?

In my particular case, I achieved short-term celebrity status among my circle of friends for having been the only person who read the books before the movies came out. Everybody came to me to have certain things clarified when they didn't understand. But then something even better happened. People who would have never gone near Tolkien (or, in some cases, any books) in their pre-movie lives started reading LotR - and they got hooked. Now I am no longer a lonely, solitary, nerdly Tolkienite in a sea of people who think I'm crazy - I can go out for dinner with a friend and end up in a lengthy conversation about The Silm, or chat about LotR (the books ) with people who are just falling in love with it for the first time. (They still think I'm crazy though.) And of course I can be happy for them because they've discovered the beauty of Tolkien's works too . . . they're happy, I'm happy, we're all happy, life is good.

And yes, there are some people who are all about the movie and it's sad that they don't know what they're missing. Usually I don't try that hard to convert them, though, because you do what makes you happy. The book makes me happy. The movie makes them happy. It's all okay. The world is not going to end.

Would Tolkien have hated the commercialism that surrounded the movie? Probably. But don't even get me started about that. I'm sure he'd be somewhat pleased that people who never had the opportunity to get into his work before have now discovered it and can get excited about it. Not everyone who fell in love with the books post-movie is an evil Tolkienite wannabe.

[Lush]

Oh no. More people everywhere are being exposed to the works of Tolkien. The terror. The tragedy. What are the hardcore keepers of the flame to do in the face of this vile enroachment upon their sacred terrirotory? Protests? Riots? Mass suicide?

More suggestions are welcome.

Please write me at weowntolkien@2cool4mainstream.com

[Finwe]

I feel your pain. I've encountered a plethora of wannabe-Tolkienologists who come up with some of the most preposterous claims that I've ever heard. Yes, it does get to me a lot. For example, I had to spend nearly an hour explaining to an extremely asinine, dungheaded nincompoop that Arwen was most definitely not going to die, that Frodo and Sam were not repressed homosexuals (this guy was trying to use Freudian theory to convince me!), and that Eowyn was most emphatically not a whore for "deserting" Aragorn! I got extremely frustrated, and in the end, blurted out, "All right. I've got a challenge for you. If you think you're so bloody knowledgeable about Tolkien, give me three other names that Sauron ever used." The look on that foolish twit's face was absolutely priceless!!!!! Of course, then I proceeded to calmly recite, "Gorthaur, Annatar, and Aulendil."

If those twits start trying to annoy you, merely ask them a random trivia question and watch their faces fall all the way to Khand. I can give you a few questions, just PM me.

[Kransha]

The person I mentioned earlier has an odd belief which I can hold against him. He told some of my friends who hadn't read the book that Aragorn's real name was Strider, as FotR at first implied until later revelation. I managed to explain, to this person's great chagrin, that not only was Strider not his real name, but it was only one of the countless names he went by, like Elessar Telcontar, Estel, Longshanks, etc. This person has done many things like this, claiming to be more of a Tolkein scholar than I (now, I wouldn't mind this if he knew what he was talking about). Unfortunately for him, all he has is his word to back him up, while I have actual physical sources.

[Bêthberry]

Would Dr. Tolkien really have wanted this?

More commonly, that would be "Professor Tolkien"

Tolkien was not a doctor of philosophy.

[Gorwingel]

Don't worry about those that act like they know everything, and act like they are completely into Tolkien just because they have seen the films. Most of them are not truly fans, and are just into it because of the hype. Don't fret, they will be gone and not into it soon ;)

And just to add... I am a person who read the books after the films, but actually ended up loving the books much, much more because of the detail and the style that they are written in. I would have never came here, or into this world, if the films had not come my way, and you could actually say that now I am forever grateful for them.

I don't think at all that the films have ruined the works of Tolkien. But then I also don't think that he would have liked all the hype that is around it now. He was a very quiet man who would have most definitely disliked it completely.

But remember that the books and films are really still two separate entities. If you dislike the films, the books are still there unchanged. The films are, and always will be, just an adaptation.

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

I read the book before the films came out and loved them...but someone persuaded me that they were too long and complicated etc (don't ask me how...)...:rolleyes: Then FOTR came out...I didn't have any desire to see it, convinced that it would be too boring. But many people in my form went to see it and said it was amazing. I was in year 9 then, and we had one English lesson a week which was purely a reading lesson. We also did book talks. I was inspired (how corny does that sound?!) by all the positive feedback and read it again. I did my booktalk on it. A fair number of people had read it following watching the film, one girl saying that she had tried reading it before and hadn't been able to get into it, but the film had made it more accessible. I read it again then saw the film. The film just reinforced my newly discovered love for ME. So I am in that sticky position of not coming to the books because of the films...but without the films I would not have been a fan at all...

But certainly a lot of people ask me to clear things up for them. I have inspired a few people who haven't even watched the films to watch them then take it from there...:D Because I did a talk comparing the books to the films (and people were like 'calm down!!') and people came up to me afterwards and were like 'thanks, I hadn't understood _____ before'...and so now when people need things clearing up they come to me. :D I've persuaded some to read the books...and have taught others Tengwar and Angerthas Daeron...and the librarian seems to have a liking for ME as there is a map of Middle Earth stuck on a bookcase.

[ElentariGreenleaf]

I always get really annoyed at school when girls are going on about how much they like Frodo cause he's played by Elijah Wood. ARG! But I have 2admit, I saw FotR before having read the books. However, I was in the middle of reading the Hobbit, so I didn't get as dragged into the movie LotR as i would have. The books will always b better than the films. You have to admit, that it was a big challenge PJ took on creating the LotR movies, but he did the best job I think any other director would have done, because he has an in-depth understanding of the books.

It does really bug me when people call themselves true Tolkienites, but then you ask them something about the books and they have no idea what you're going one about.

Against movie only fans,
Elentari I, the insane and otherwise indigestible.

[Apocalypse_ForceS]

well, i dont think that the movies ruined the books, but i do have to admit that they dont completely follow the books, and do get some things wrong, but then again all movies based on books get some things wrong, it is not feasible to follow the exact storyline, and before you ask yes i did read the books before i saw the movies, i didnt even see FotR until after the two towers had come out, and i actually didnt like it much so it took me ages to see the two towers, which is a shame because i thought it was really good...oh well, im rambling now, so im going to shut up...just inputting my humble opinion...which no-one cares about...

[Eorl of Rohan]

*raises an eyebrow* Now that I think of it, I was only able to buy LOTR only becuase the movie made it famous enough to import it into Korea.

[Goldberry]

I find it difficult to think of anything that has enhanced the popularity of LotR (the book) as sad.

Well said, Saucepan Man.

Please write me at weowntolkien@2cool4mainstream.com

Very good, Lush. :D

I don't think the movies have "ruined" the books at all. Don't bother about the people who haven't read the books but consider themselves scholars; instead think about all the wonderful new people that the movies have encouraged to read the books. I wouldn't have read them if it weren't for the movies, and although I'm not nearly as knowledgeable as most of the people here, I'm learning more every day and I have the movies to thank for that since they inspired me to read the books. Although there is the occasional person who is very annoying about their supposed "knowledge," I think on the whole the movies have brought in a great new wave of people who can appreciate the books, which is definitely something to be glad about.

[Failivrin]

I am glad that the movies have prompted people to read the books and become true Tolkien fans. I am not a fan of the people who masquerade as LOTR fans and say that PJ is entirely responsible. In fact, i detest these kind of people, but i get a little pleasure out of exposing them and you can't have your cake and eat it. I am glad that now more people love the books.

[Lyta_Underhill]

*raises an eyebrow* Now that I think of it, I was only able to buy LOTR only becuase the movie made it famous enough to import it into Korea. A salient point, indeed, Eorl! I used to go the opposite way from the trendies and avoid some movies/books because they were too popular, but I see that this strategy backfires a lot in my experience and I miss things that could be enriching and satisfying, simply because I was "too cool to be trendy." Now, although I still avoid certain irritants like Jim Carrey movies and have hangups still that I have not pruned out of my life, I try to be more open minded and find it merely amusing when people who find out I'm into LOTR ask me if I think Aragorn or Legolas is hotter. I just tell them that Gimli is the sexiest dwarf ever and I have a crush on Gandalf! (Then I own up and admit that Aragorn is hotter after all...) :p

Cheers!
Lyta

[Alchisiel]

It seems to me that Eorl is saying that anyone who hasn't read the books before the movie came out has no right to read it? Now I know that you probably didn't mean it that way but that's the way it came across to me. What if no one new came across Tolkien's works except for the people that are reading them now? Tolkien's works would eventually drift out of print and no one would ever know about them. That's what would be sad.

Yes, I'm one of those people that saw the FOTR movie first and then read the books (still am-long story). I do not consider myself an expert. If it wasn't for the movies I wouldn't have known about the LOTR books and if it wasn't for a lady that I used to work with I wouldn't have known about The Hobbit. I am now passing on Tolkien to my fickle 17-year-old nephew who loves the movies and wants to read the books. He's constantly asking me questions some of which I know-most I don't. That's why I joined this forum to learn.

I think PJ did his adaptation of Tolkien's works very well but then that's all it is--just an adaptation. One man's view of how Middle Earth looked. That's all it is really. Isn't it?

[Lathriel]

I read the book and I loved it. I read it again and again I loved it. Then time passed. The movies came out and the books drew my interest again. Now I am a real fan.

What I found annoying was that my friends thought Denethor was just evil. I had to explain to them over and over again how Denethor got caught by the Dark Lord through the Palantir. I think I have now convinced them that Denethor is not so bad afterall. Or at least it wasn't his fault that he became crazy.

Do you ever have the problem that one of your family members is just driving you up the wall with all their questions but they refuse to read te book. My brother was like that but my answers were either very confusing or very open-ended. So FINALLY I got him to read the book and he loved it.

That was one of the greatest accomplishments of my life.:D

[Missy Evenstar]

I was just the opposite. When the first LOTR movie came out I didn't want to see. I thought it looked dumb. But then I took a course at the local community college and one of the books we had to read was the LOTR trilogy. So I read them. And I loved them. I thought they were great. I read them twice before I ever watched any of the movies. And then I read them again after I'd seen Fellowship and Two Towers. I can definatly say I am a true fan. And it's true people who said they hated the books and then they see the movies and then say they love the books after they read them again just because they saw the movies annoys me. I personally think you're much better off by reading the books first THEN seeing the movies. It makes stuff in the movies that aren't explained make more sense. And it really helps to read "The Hobbit" before you read the other three books. But that's just me.

[Morgul Queen]

I mayself read the Hobbit at 5, FotR at 7 and then, in true little kid style, forgot LotR ever existed. When I heard about the movies, I figured 'Hey, a book I haven't read!' and went and bought it, reaslized I had read it, and then noticed there were 2 other books after FotR.

Now I am the school expert on Tolkien and LotR (even the teachers ask me about it) and the new kids at school are told 'Here's the library, you see that girl over there? She's the crazy LotR chick! If you want to know something, ask her.'

However, just before RotK came out (I hadn't told anyone what was going to happen in the next movies. My excuse 'I don't know what they're changing or leaving out, so I won't tell, I'll explain after though.') I got fed up with getting asked the same questions over, and over again. 'Is anyone going to die?' 'Well, Merry and Pippin die in Minas Tirith, and when Aragorn dies they are buried with him. Frodo, Sam, Legolas, Gimli and Gandalf leave Middle-earth...' not telling them when of course.

But finally I got irritated with 'So is Frodo going to die?' and ended up telling them that Sam sees frodo get killed by a giant spider. :) You should have heard the tears at the cinema :D

Cruel, I know, but it had to be done.

[PoisonIvy]

Originally posted by Alchisiel
It seems to me that Eorl is saying that anyone who hasn't read the books before the movie came out has no right to read it? Now I know that you probably didn't mean it that way but that's the way it came across to me. What if no one new came across Tolkien's works except for the people that are reading them now? Tolkien's works would eventually drift out of print and no one would ever know about them. That's what would be sad.

Yes, I'm one of those people that saw the FOTR movie first and then read the books (still am-long story). I do not consider myself an expert. If it wasn't for the movies I wouldn't have known about the LOTR books.

that makes two of us now. despite my love for books years ago, i didn't know why I was not able to come across any LOTR book in the past. call it fate or something. but when the movies came out and I knew that there was a book, I almost cursed myself for missing that one. the movies were beautifully created that it makes you want for more...more of the original thing, the books. now I am devouring and re-devouring the LOTR and tolkien's other books but I don't say I am an expert. the movies opened my eyes to the wonderful world Professor Tolkien has "chronicled" (not "created" as "The Tolkien Reader" puts it for it has always been there). and I am thankful for that.

i have to agree with this guy when he said if tolkien's book would only be patronized by a "few" or "exclusive" then it could eventually just gather dust in the shelves, forgotten. so don't be too harsh on newbies to the tolkien world. they are there because they appreciate the work (save for those who just want to pretend to be popular).

[Hot, crispy nice hobbit]

I came across the book six years ago, and that did not make me an expert any subject on the great Prof T's work either. :)

Hey, people, chill out! I am not too hot on the films and whatnots, but everybody want to show their opinions on stuff that attract them at one time or another. I would not like it very much if somebody tell me that a Trolll is actually a thin axe-throwing gecko and those ugly giants pulling the Grond in the movie are actually Ogres. (pun intended) But hey, it has never really affected our community much, right? At least, I have not seen a post yet from a newbie who try to argue that Balrogs CAN fly just because he saw a winged Balrog in the movie.

We should really be glad that more people are becoming interested in the works of Prof T. Sure, some goons would like to think that the books are based on the show. I am certainly of the opinion that long after the images of "Legolas" slaughtering an Oliphaunt are past, the actually events in the Book will still be remembered and debated, if not by scholars, then by spoony bards like me!

[Everdawn]

Well, You guys know what? I think it's fantastic that the movie has brought more people to read the books, and now that my other friends like the movie they know what im on about when I say something about LOTR and I think that Tolkien would be very happy that so many people admire his work.


To tell you the truth, Ive only ever finished reading the Hobbit once... I know ill get flames here, but I found it rather dull, I had read LOTR before but I only got into it when I heard that they were planning to make a movie that was when I really got into it.

So what im saying is, everyone has to start somewhere right? I know that im an individual and i hate the people getting in on my trends etc, but I think here, im happy to share LOTR with everyone.

KNow what I mean?

[Elentári_O_Most_Mighty_1]

I know what you mean, Everdawn. I too only read the Hobbit once- because I went on to read LOTR and couldn't stand the Orcs being referred to as 'goblins' for some reason...

They are there because they appreciate the work (save for those who just want to pretend to be popular). Ringers being popular??!! Where? I am as much of a freak as ever...people into LOTR round here don't suddenly get much more popular. But practically everyone has seen the films and lots have subsequently read the books, so it's all good.

[ArathorofBarahir]

I had heard of LOTR when I was in middle school but for some reason it just didn't appeal to me. But when I saw MTV'S Making the Movie for FoTR when I was a sophomore my jaw dropped and
I had my mom take me to Waldenbooks and bought the Hobbit and the LOTR trilogy and have been hooked ever since I finished reading them. The movies and the books are great, however the movies only help to enrich my LOTR reading experience. Oh and I will be reading these books until I die.

[Lhundulinwen]

Well, I truly I believe that the movies aren't that bad. I don't agree with all of the scenes, and I get tired of telling people "no, the books came before the movie. A LONG time before the movies". But I might never have read the books like my Tolkienite friend had urged me unless I heard that they were going to make movies out of them. Plus, the movies made it a lot easier to find the books. Most people who are now claiming to like LOTR will be gone in a year or less; and all of us LOTR nuts will still be here. Discussing and rehashing every aspect of the books and what they say about curent culture. And you know what? That's fine with me.

[Morgul Queen]

My school library is doing a LotR quiz. (I'm the judge, lol) It's based on the books, and many of the people at my school are now reading the books to find the answers. Of course, then there are those who think Isilder is an Elven language, and still o=more who are heard saying 'That wasn't in the movie!' But there are more reading the books, definately a good thing, no matter how you look at it :D

[Lalwendë]

Someone earlier made the point that if the films had not been made then the books would eventually have been forgotten about. I have to disagree - wasn't there a poll run by Waterstone's in 1999 (well before the films) to find the greatest books of the 20th century, in which LOTR was the run away winner?

I do love the films though - perhaps because I was so nervous about them being dreadful that I had a nice surprise when they were good. I accept that in the interests of 'dramatisation' some things had to be cut. After all, there are no films which are totally loyal to the books they are based on - or at least I can't think of any - and Peter Jackson did have all us fans to contend with if he cut too much out. But there is one point where I have noticed that fans of the books and fans of the films do disagree, and that's over the end of ROTK. Those on the movie 'side' (if you can call it that!) tend to say the film was 20 minutes too long, and any 'bookies' say no, it was not long enough! It would have been disgraceful to stop the film at Mount Doom!

I had an annoying moment a couple of weeks ago when I downloaded a New Line endorsed LOTR trivia quiz. A question asked what was the Elven name for the Grey Havens, the answer was given as Valinor...

[Cynan]

Originally posted by Eorl of Rohan
I made this thread becuase I had an arguement with a so-called LOTR fan who insisted that Arwen was the spirit of the Ring. Ridiculous.

Damn. I couldn't even get that out of THE MOVIE. Weird.

[Fingolfin II]

I think this Arwen thing is because of Elrond saying that Arwen's fate is bound to the Ring to Aragorn, when he gave him Narsil. I read the books before the movies, but I still reckon the movies are fantastic, though I'm not too happy about some things.

[InklingElf]

oh goodness gracious -- where have I heard this "Arwen is the 'spirit' of the Ring," before? Well, often times at school by bespectacled movie fans (although I will not become a hypocrite by saying I am not), but more often from my 8-yr. old sister whose only purpose in watching LOTR in the first place is Liv Tyler and her arwen-ness.

Perhaps there was too much emphasis on Arwen -- and perhaps people are just too lazy to cite the true sources, etched in ink on hard/paper-bound paper...Eorl, I truly understand where you are coming from, however I do not think it fair to say that

The movie. has. ruined. the book.

It is unfair to Peter Jackson -- since he himself is a 'Tolkienologist' -- or whatever that may mean. Nevertheless, we cannot assume that even if a 'new-found love' for Prof. Tolkien's literature arises due to the movie(s), that everyone will start reading the books...or...am I babbling again?

In short, I too believe that people should not talk of things in which they have no authority; no knowledge of what they are talking about -- in this case of 'Arwen's spirit'. However, I am also not entitled to who is the 'authority' in these things. I cannot give it to them -- I know it becomes annoying at times.

Opinion is such a fascinating thing.

[Saraphim]

Sometimes, I just want to throw people off of cliffs.

And then I realize that the nearest one is miles away.

But I get so peeved at people who watch the movies and suddenly know everything. And even when they don't know something and I tell them why such and such happened, they say: "Oh, Yeah, I knew that. It's completly obvious."

Grrrrr.

"Wait. Legolas isn't a playboy who slides down giant elephant trunks and ancient staircases on shields in the book? Well then it must be wrong. What kind of moron wrote that?"

Grrrrr.

"Yes I'm a Lord of the Rings nerd! I know everything about it. But I only didn't get the end. Why did Frodo leave and where did he go?"

Grrrrr.

I've actually heard that last one. Sad.

[Saraphim]

Another thought. In about ten years, the avidity and popularity of LotR will die down. It's inevitable. Perhaps the children of former pop-culture-loving psudo-nerds will find the barely-skimmed books in thier attics. And then, a whole new generation of Tolkien-loving scholars will be born.

And then, New Line will remake the movies. :mad:

[Lhundulinwen]

It's inevitable. Perhaps the children of former pop-culture-loving psudo-nerds will find the barely-skimmed books in thier attics. And then, a whole new generation of Tolkien-loving scholars will be born.

A whole new generation of Tolkien readers coming from the movies originally! Isn't that a good thing? Even if their parents miss the point at least for now, maybe they'll pick the books back up. A new generation will find them laying around the house, and fall in love with them all over again. Then they'll go and do a quick internet search, and voila! a whole new crop of Barrowdowners! And in a lot of college classes, and some high school classes even, Tolkien is a required read, and many people fall in love with the books there, and then they have families, and they share the books with their children. So, really, this total immaturity from movie-goers will pass, and bring over a lot of LOTR nuts.

[Vanya]

Personaly, when I heard that LOTR was going to be filmed, I was very suspicious, but glad at the same time. In a way, I wanted more people to join this wanderfull place, even those who are too lazy to read.
I liked films, and understand that some cuts had to be made, but I think that he sacrificed some important moments to make time for completely unnecessary, even unapropriate ones. I can't forgive missing of Eowyn/Faramir story, or of joining of Dunedain along with Elrond's sons to Rohirim army.
But now, when LOTR is so popular, I feel like I lost something of mine. Now it's common to be Tolkin fan, but even easier to bo quasy Tolkien fan. Popularity was not a favour to Lotr, just the opposite (along with all the tacky trading items and abuse of characters in gay community - I don't have anything against gay people, just I don't belive that Tolkien had that in mind)
To conclude, I like films, I like meeting people like You all who truly love and understand Tolkien, but I hate commercialisation of it, and I miss the days when I felt ME was my personal place to hide.

[Etharius]

Guys, you haveto remember that the movies revealed Tolkien in an enourmous way.

I myself before the films came out was a Dungeons and Dragons fan, playing Baldurs Gate and having an interest in Warhammer. Suddenly, this strangely titles film came out called "The Lord of the Rings" and i thought to myself, "WOW, looks like a film on Baldurs Gate!".

Little did i know that i would become enveloped in Tolkiens huge world and love it more than any other game or story ive ever seen before.

I owe the films alot of credit!

[Frodo Baggins]

Ruined the book? Perhaps. I must say that I am one of the Die hards that the movie has brought in. Even though my dad had been trying to get me to read LOTR for years before the movie (and he holds all credit for introducing me) I did not begin to read until one week before FoTR came out.

Admittedly, I get quite annoyed with people who say that the book is "too long" or "That did not happen in the movie so the book is wrong" (I really want to slap them when I get that). Heck, I cannot bring up LoTR at school without hearing how someone wants to date Legolas! *groan* What really got me mad before Rotk came out was how people would tell me they did not want to read the book until the movie came out for fear of "Spoiling it" Trust me, I read the books twice even before TTT came out and nothing was spoiled.

In that sense, yes the book has been ruined. But maybe when the moviegoers and fangirls go away and the smoke clears, we can sit down, old and new die hards, and do just as we have always done.

[Etharius]

I agree with you totally Frodo Baggins.

[TheBladeThatWasBroken]

All the rants that I'm too lazy to type out in one thread!

Movie-fans annoy me, since most of them have never read the books, they see the characters exactly how they are in the movies.

"Damn! Aragorn is hella tyt! He should've just hacked off Frodo's head cos that midget is so annoying!"

Or, as mentioned before, the fangirls

"OMG, Legolas is like, so hot and so is Aragorn! Wouldn't it be great if there was some movie with Leggy/Aragorn slash?"

Where did "Leggy" come from anyway?

Then there's all the Movie > Books people like this:

http://pictures.greatestjournal.com/userimg/550827/67309

[Bombadil]

haha ya, I have a bunch of friends who have seen the movie, and proclaim that "The Lord of the Rings" sucks. MOstly they do it to make me mad, lol. Not to mention some kid that, when i tlaked about Lord of the Rings, said "Oh man I know everything about that ****, man! I've seen the movies probably 30 times!" First i yawned at the fact that he was proud of his "30 times" then i asked him if he's read it...of course he sud no.

Andddd my favorite is people who have only seen the movie pronouncing "Aragorn" as "Aragon." IM done ;)

[Isowen]

LOTR has become a popular book and many claim their devotion to it. We are not recognized anymore as Tolkien fans, only as trend followers, simply because everyone else has read the books and seen the movies. All that we can do now is wait until the "non-believers" find something else to do and then we can continue to stay true to our professer Tolkien. :D
Although, i also think that the movie has simply made the books more popular. Many lotr fans that I know, only read the books because they liked the films! wether that is ethical or not, I cannot say!

[Laitoste]

Really? The movie ruined the books? Because my books survived all three movies with no textual changes...I must be lucky!

Seriously, though, were the movies that bad? Are those people that annoying? The book hasn't been ruined, you just have some new folks to avoid. As has been stated multiple times before, both on this thread and elsewhere, the know-it-all annoying people will eventually leave (if some haven't already) and inhabit and drive another fandom crazy. But the books will remain the same. So relax! :cool:

[Morsul the Dark]

they no doubt brought in the new crop of die-hards, those whose life is irrevocably enriched by their exposure to Tolkien first through the movies and then through the books and perhaps on into the vortex of the entire Legendarium. Some will be assimilated, as the Borg might say, and we will be the richer for it.

Cheers!
Lyta

Indeed I would be one of those people...

A year before the movie came out

Me- hey what you reading?
Kid-LOTR
Me-look at how long that is it must be boring

one month after movie

halfway through TTT me- wow how could I be so ignorant this is great!

[Encaitare]

I don't think the movies ruined the books. As some people said, the movies were what made me want to read the books, and they opened up a whole world for me. Certainly the books are better (isn't that always the case?), but the movies are great as an interpretation of them. There are a great deal of things I wish had been put in the movie ( :mad: SCOURING OF THE SHIRE!!! :mad: ) but I'm not going to go ballistic over it.

Hopefully the rabid fangirls will soon evaporate and we'll be left clutching our copies of the books (and for some of us, the EE DVDs) and we shall all be in peace.

[Gelmir]

The scouring of the shire was in the galadreil's mirror so, it could be in the extended video or dvd!:D Also, there are toys of the mouth of sauron, so he could be in the extended dvd or video :D . OOOooOOoOOOooOooooooO.

[The Only Real Estel]

The. movie. has. ruined. the. book.

I can't agree with that, I've been debated with before on that topic, but never shown any real reasons why the movie ruined the book. First of all, I enjoy the fact that the movies have drawn more people to Tolkein's LotR-even drawn more people to read his books. There are those, of course, that will try to start up a ridiculous argument about how Arwen is 'the spirit of the Ring' or how you can't be a fan of LotR if you don't know who Elijah Wood is, but there are also countless people who read the books because of the movies & are now bigger fans of Tolkien's writings then you or me! If people bring up bad arguments they've based on the movies, I just ask them which came first-the book or the movie?-and rest my case on that.

In fact, LOTR was turned into a money-making

It is a little over-marketed at times, but there wouldn't be an opportunity for over-marketing unless Tolkien made great books for PJ to make into his movies (& he largely stuck with the books, too). And of course they had to have the idea of getting back the 300 million they spent on the movies, it'd be ridiculous if they never thought of that.

*raises an eyebrow* Now that I think of it, I was only able to buy LOTR only becuase the movie made it famous enough to import it into Korea

Good things come of it after all :).

The movies are not carbon-copies of the books, God-forbid that there ever be a LotR series out that is (much as half of me would like to see it)-the movies are great in their own right, the books in their's- and neither has ever caused the other any serious damage that I have ever heard of.
Point is, the movies can't ruin the books for you in any way, shape, or form...unless you let them.

[Encaitare]

I hate to burst your happy little bubble, Gelmir, but I believe they never even did the Scouring of the Shire at all. *bursts into tears*

Unless it's a big secret that they're keeping hush-hush until the EE DVD comes out...

[Alchisiel]

Actually I believe that they showed the Shire being taken over not the Scouring of the Shire itself. So I hate to burst your little bubble, Encaitare. That's what Gelmir is referring to, I think.

[Alchisiel]

You know I've been thinking.....instead of bashing the movies I think we should be thankful that someone who is a Tolkien fan made these movies instead of "The Hollywood Machine" if you get my meaning.

I can see it now the part of Aragorn being played by Tom Cruise, Arwen played by Julia Roberts, Galadriel played by Meg Ryan, Tobey Macguire playing Frodo.......scary isn't it?

What I'm trying to get at is that if Hollywood had made the movies the characters that we all love probably would have been played by popular actors, and not the ones that were in the movies. Peter Jackson hired actors based on their acting ability not on if the stars were bankable or not as Hollywood usually does and that my friends is what we should be thankful for. :)

[ohtatyaro]

You know I've been thinking.....instead of bashing the movies I think we should be thankful that someone who is a Tolkien fan made these movies instead of "The Hollywood Machine" if you get my meaning

Yes, yes, yes!

Many things were done badly, but many things were just fascinating :D

[Encaitare]

Ouch... Tobey Maguire as Frodo? ::winces:: He's a good actor but..... no. It would be heinous. They'd make Gandalf say, "Remember Frodo, with great power comes great responsibility." :D

[Morsul the Dark]

hmm Tobey maguire as Frodo...wouldnt be too bad...

Tobey and Elijah look A LOT alike at least to me (oh and not buff spidey Tobey i mean Seabisquit Tobey)

[Lady Gamgee]

Well, for someone like me who never heard of LOTR until the movies came out, I think it's great. The movies introduced me to the books, which I'm now reading ... almost done with The Two Towers ... and I've truly enjoyed reading what I've read so far. There are those who could be called "trend followers", but rest assured, I am not one of them. I believe Tolkien to be very genuine, creative, & unique in his work. There is nothing wrong with Tolkien gaining TRUE new fans. But those that are true remain to be seen years down the road ... if they still love his work.

[Lady Gamgee]

BTW, I read The Hobbit before LOTR, and it's amazing what a difference that makes. All the books connect .... like one feeding off the other. You can't truly understand everything about LOTR if you don't read the Hobbit first.

[Laitoste]

Tobey and Elijah look A LOT alike at least to me (oh and not buff spidey Tobey i mean Seabisquit Tobey)
ahh...but "Seabiscuit" Tobey Macguire has red hair...he played Red Pollard. (I know what you mean, just had to add that :rolleyes: )

[RadomRadagast]

Actually the movie hype got me interested in the books, because belive it or not I had never heard of them. So I read the hobbit and a good bit of the trilogy before even watching the movies. I think the books are better, although the movies are OK for movies.

[Lachwen]

Don't bash the movies too hard, Eorl. Lyta_Underhill has it right: the movies, despite their inaccuracies and hordes of screaming LOTR-geeks, have also brought around a new crowd of die-hards. Myself included. When I saw Fellowship of the Ring the first time, my total expreience with Tolkien was having read The Hobbit six years previously. Now, four years later, I am so very glad the movies came out, because they made me aware of a beautifully rich and complex world of literature. Had the movies not been made, I might still be ignorant of Tolkien's work. And that would be truly sad.

[InklingElf]

I think there are more pros in the coming of the movies than most people think -- I agree with you movies buffs. After all Jackson IS a Tolkien geek right? Who better to interpret it than one who's heart is invested in the books and perfecting it visually. Flaws will always be imminent but I can't imagine a better person for the job.

[Snowdog]

I agree with Eorl in alot of ways about some movie fans. I posted my take on Tolkien fans in this thread (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=549).

[turgon]

It is rather sad to come across a moviegoer ecstatic with the films only to watch them cringe when I suggest reading the books. When I try explaining the worlds that await or the wealth of literature. I am sometimes meant with a bored look and a nonsensical comment such as "reading bores me." :eek: How can one learn anything let alone soar thru the realms of imagination if they refuse to flex there wings

[Encaitare]

I understand... people are always saying "I can't even remember the last time I read a book" and meanwhile I'll be trying to get through three different books at once because I couldn't decide which to read first! They don't know what they're missing.