Pippin in the book?

[Ellwyn]

I am not sure if there has already been a discussion on this as the search engine for some reason is not working... never mind.

Did you (when you first read the book) think of Pippin as the foolish and ignorant hobbit as he is in the film? I for one did not really think of him as that... he was a bit more serious if you get my meaning. What do you all think?

[Gil Galad]

To me in the book Pippin just wanted to be a normal hobbit, he got serious when he had to but deep down he just wanted to have fun. He never knew He would fight in big battles. To me in the movies he was not ignorant just foolish and curious(hence the incident in moria.)

P.S. Ellwyn you have pm

[warrenerd]

the pippin in the book was definitely different from the pippin in the films. i think that the films just built on the idea that pippin was the youngest and used him as material for comic relief. wrong wrong wrong. oh well. they couldn't get everything right, i guess.
~shouting at the wall~
:smokin:

[burrahobbit]

Pippin did all sorts of comic relief things in the book. Knocking things over, falling down, etc.

[Finwe]

To me, Pippin was and will always be the little kid who was forced to grow up too quickly by his circumstances.

[Lyta_Underhill]

Did you (when you first read the book) think of Pippin as the foolish and ignorant hobbit as he is in the film?
Actually, although he did act very young in the movies, I never got the feeling he was ignorant in either movie or book. He was curious and rather naive concerning certain points of good sense, i.e., he didn't realize that making noise might alert some real nasties or that it was simply bad taste to go about in Imladris shouting "Make way for Frodo, Lord of the Ring!" But in the book, there is much more to Pippin and I get the sense that his foolishness and innocence is part of the larger plan in a most unexpected and serendipitous way. See this thread for some more on that: Pippin's Sixth Sense (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2280&highlight=pippins+sixth+sense)

Pippin did all sorts of comic relief things in the book. Knocking things over, falling down, etc. Pippin didn't fall down nearly as much as some others! In fact, Pippin is described as the most agile of the hobbits, being most up to the task of making it across the rope bridge over the Nimrodel in Lorien. Hey, I wonder (long shot thought here) if the "lighting the beacons" sequence in ROTK was a sort of oblique homage to this trait. Also, personally, one of my favorite Pippin funnies in the book was less on the bumbling scale and more the subtle "good humor" of Pippin's teasing of Frodo at the beginning about how he could use some exercise and how, at Rivendell, Frodo has an uncanny knack for waking up right when the food is being served. I have a feeling that Pippin teased Frodo a lot, but it was always good-natured.

Cheers!
Lyta

[Evisse the Blue]

Pippin is surely the most childish of all the hobbits, but that does not always prove a bad thing, for himself or others. For instance, anyone less happy go lucky and lighthearted would have broken down during those pre-war days in Minas Tirith, the atmosphere was almost unbearably gloomy and dreadful. And he always remains optimistic until the final moment. When he thinks he's going to die, in the battle in front of the Black Gate, his last thoughts are simple and touching: "This is my story and it's ending now. Goodbye."
Of course this is as much a journey of growth and discovery for Pippin as it was for Frodo, though maybe on a smaller scale. (this is true of the other hobbits as well).
For me, the realisation that Pippin had really grown, not only in stature and courage but also in wisdom, came when he was infuriated by the ruffian's words to Frodo in 'Scouring of the Shire', remembering the events from the Field of Cormallen. He's come a long way from yelling 'Make way for Frodo, Lord of the Ring' in Rivendell. ;)
Still, reasoning and choosing the best course of action logically is not really Pippin's strong point. Those things are much better acomplished by Merry.

[Carlas]

I have always loved Pippin because he always made me laugh, and he really was, like Finwe said,
the little kid who was forced to grow up too quickly

And he still is in the movies.

[Firefoot]

I never really thought of him as foolish or ignorant, and I don't think they portrayed him that way in the film, except for maybe a little ignorance. He was young and inexperienced, especially in FotR. He didn't really understand just how large of a matter the Quest really was, how important the Ring was. I think he is a character that we see a lot of growth and maturity in, especially in RotK and TTT. Throughout RotK when he is basically on his own - he doesn't even have Merry with him, and Gandalf is more concerned with other matters to be watching out for him. If you look at Pippin in "Three is Company," and compare that to Peregrin in "The Scouring of the Shire," you see an immense differece between who he was and who he had become.

[nugwathion]

I think that when Pippin joined the journey in Crickhollow he tought that they just have to walk by the road to Rivendell and leave the ring there. But after he departed first from Gandalf and then from everyone else than Merry he figured out how serious this task really is.

[symestreem]

Nugwathion, your description could also apply to Frodo. We don't, however, think of Frodo as childish. Why is that, do you think?
Fezzik: You *gasp* use different

Sorry. :D

[nugwathion]

i think they are pretty much the same until Frodo gets wounded at Weathertop. after that Pippin was still cheerful but Frodo begun to get darker and realised that he was the one who was in the greatest of danger.

[Hot, crispy nice hobbit]

Actually, in the book, the hobbits all shone in some distinguishing characteristics. Merry is practical, Sam is loyal, Frodo deep, and Pippin light-hearted. It is not true that Pippin is foolish and ignorant. He had the sense to squeeze out of the brawling orcs and cut ropes of his bound hands, and not just run off. He is also smart enough to imitate Gollum to buy time from Grishnakh.

Of course, those young hobbits Merry and Pippin were fools to run off by themselves to search for Frodo, but the end result might have been the same. If the Fellowship had not scattered, none of them may have survived the onslaught during the ambush.

There is no denying that Pippin is comical. He might have even been intended so by Prof T, but I don't think he should be bashed. The Film had always altered personalities, but for comic relief, Pippin is not even half as altered as Gimli.

[Lyta_Underhill]

He had the sense to squeeze out of the brawling orcs and cut ropes of his bound hands, and not just run off. He is also smart enough to imitate Gollum to buy time from Grishnakh. Indeed, this part in the Two Towers illustrates the upside of his impulsive nature. Pippin is quick-thinking and quick-acting. He just needs a challenge and he rises to it admirably. But he is not complete in his skills. He would have been hopelessly lost in Fangorn Forest if Merry hadn't studied the maps and knew approximately where they were!

Pippin's impulses act as serendipitous occurrences, pushing events that could not have been purposefully pushed into the paths they must go to gain a victory for the forces of Good. In a way, Pippin's foolish stone in Moria works out to Gandalf's good, bringing him, through strife and death into a higher state with the powers he needs to complete his own quest (if we take the stone and later events as direct consequence, which isn't completely certain.) With the palantir incident, Pippin "saves" Gandalf again by determining the nature of the device before Gandalf puts himself on the line to investigate it, thus saving Gandalf from exposure to Sauron prematurely and adding a level of misdirection that keeps Sauron from realizing their plans too soon. So Pippin as Gandalf's "project" works out well and bears fruit that couldn't be brought into flower by purposeful direct action. This points up to me, along with his counsels to Frodo earlier, the subtlety of Gandalf's judgement and the heart of his love for the hobbits.

I've probably said all this before in other threads, but I felt like saying it again! Thanks for reading! :D

Cheers,
Lyta

[Gorwingel]

I don't personally really think that he is more serious in the book than in the movie, but it is just that we have a lot more detail about the person himself. Pippin is a brilliant character in both the book and the fillm though. He is someone who seems like he is in a situation where everything is above him in the beginning, and then he finally begins to understand things by the end. He is mischivious, but none of it is ever on purpose, it is just his hobbit nature.

I think that Pippin was comical on purpose. The LOTR is a really dark story, and it did need some comic relief here and there. But it isn't obvious comic relief like we see in many of today's movies. It is there for a purpose, because most of the comic moments do cause someone to do something different changing the outcome of the situation to the better.

[symestreem]

Here's my theory on Pippin as comic relief in the movie but not in the book:

Tolkien was writing an epic. An epic is not meant to be funny. An epic is meant to be high and stirring and tragic, because when you finish the book you remember that it's just a story, but then you realize that in a way it's true too.
Back to my point. The people in an epic, on matter how high, are still real people. The best way for people to connect with other people is to show those other people as real people. What I mean is Aragorn undoubtedly laughed, and Gandalf probably liked good food. Maybe Boromir secrely liked French opera ;). So, they had to show the human side of people to make them seem human, and for people to realize that "Wow, I guess they're just people after all." And Pippin was one of the easiest to connect with.

Does anyone at all get what I'm trying to say? I'm not even sure if I do. :(

[Lobelia]

Pippin is less comic relief in the novel than in the film, but he does have his moments and give Gandalf the excuse to say things like, "Fool of a Took!" and "Hit them with your head!" at the gates of Moria, just before he (Gandalf) gets the password all wrong. But I do love the relationship between the wizard and this hobbit; it's one that's rarely explored in discussion. Really, Gandalf is fond of Pippin.

And he does save Beregond in battle and Faramir at the tombs. One thing I was surprised they didn't play for laughs in the film was Pippin getting fallen on by a troll.

[symestreem]

If they played it like it was in the book, it wouldn't have been funny, because Pippin's life was in danger. A comic moment would have ruined the seriousness of the battle. They could have played it for drama, though. Perhaps we'll see that in the EE.

[InklingElf]

Comic relief? Perhaps if character development wasn't such an important subject in an epic, then yes. However I see Pippin's role as an allusion for...say morality -- hence the example of the palantir etc. He is an honest fool, is he not? And by being that his character does not necessarily become ambiguous because he is a comical fool...The serious part comes from the danger he is in like symestreem said.

Pippin has many great nuances that contribute to the epic. Comic relief, is simply the crust of it.

[Angry Brandybuck]

I don't really understand what you're getting at InklingElf. The way I see it 'character development' isn't important in an Epic, but LoTR is not an Epic, it is more than that. I also don't see at all how you can claim that a character links to a concept, everyone should know that Tolkien wasn't an allegorist.

Pippin to me is like Ireland, always having the mick-taken and treated like a comic character but below the surface wiser than anyone can know.

[Saraphim]

What I think is that Pippin represented the innocence and childishness of all the hobbits. He is the youngest of all the hobbits, and the least wise.

It is Pippin and Merry, more than Frodo and Sam, who are able to revert back into thier old lives (or very nearly) after the War. Although this has to do with the difference of thier adventures, it also has to do with the personality of these different characters. I do not see Pippin being able to resist the Ring for any longer than Isildur. (Think of his Palantir fiasco.)

[The Saucepan Man]

But Isildur did resist the Ring. He couldn't destroy it. Just like Frodo couldn't destroy it. Just like no one could destroy it. But Isildur resolved to turn the Ring in to Elrond when he reached Imladris ... only he didn't reach it.

So, yes, I agree with you. Pippin's resolve could be equated with that of Isildur. ;)

[Eomer King of Rohan]

I don't think he is AS foolish in the book as in the movies, but oi bothe versions he definately matures as he expeariences war esoecially when he looks into the palantir.