Annoying Amateurs

[Gil-Galad]

I know probaly everyone has heard of this before, but one thing that really annoys me after the movies came out was that people, who watched every movie like 7 times, think they no absolutly everything about LOTR. for example, if a iask them who was Tom Bombadil, they would say "theres no Tom Bombadil in LOTR" it really annoys me!

[Firefoot]

You know what is even worse than that? Is when they try to tell you something that they figured out or found on the internet which is something that anyone who had read the books would know. Or they try to tell you that they know so much more than you do. The other thing that gets annoying is when people claim to be obsessed yet they found the books boring.

I have to admit though, it is quite funny watching people scrambling around for a quote in the book that you know exactly which one and where it was.

[Knight of Gondor]

Yes, I agree it's annoying for amateurs to think they know more than you. I knew a fellow once who, having read the books, was a little snobbish about it, and kind of sniffing at the movies and saying they weren't entirely true to the books. Then he came up with some crazy idea that Tom Bombadil sent the Ents to Helm's Deep. I was like "uh...NO?" and he didn't agree.

I suppose I would suggest, however, that we as Tolkien fans (as representatives of Tolkien fans) take care not to appear intellectually snobbish back, and act like a know-it-all in return. (Not saying anyone's doing this...just suggesting we keep it in mind when dealing with people who are probably pining after all our superior Tolkien knowledge!)

Try playing Lord of the Rings Trivial Pursuits with them. This is both helpful and revenge, since it will assist them in learning about LotR, but until they learn their stuff, you can totally cream them. :D

[Ellwyn]

I have a friend who claims to have read LOTR 7 times yet she didn't know who Faramir married. She was like 'Who's Faramir'? One time, I was really bored so I started daydreaming. She said:

"Ellie's taking a trip to the Shire, I'm gonna go there too!" and put her head down on the grass.

Argh! She's totally clueless!

[Phervasaion]

No amature has ever come up to and said 'oh i know everything about Lotr', but i do know quite a few amatures from my school. If any of them came up to me and started bragging though I would also be annoyed and I can see your point, especially if they were getting evrtything wrong. Another thing that annoys me even more is when people who havnt even read the books (or seen the movies for that matter) come up to me and say that they are boring or rubbish when they wouldnt even know.

[Lindalirien O Lorien]

Sadly I have many people at my school like that. I sometimes talk to people about differences between the movies and the books and the have NO clue what I'm talking about but then when they're talking to their other friends they'll either talk about the movies or say everything I have said to them... it annoys me so much. I also have people who think that they're waaay to cool to read the books. They don't even give it a chance and that gets me really upset.

[Gil-Galad]

One positive thing to this, before the thrid movie came out, i tricked like 5 girls that Legolas dies! ha ha that was fun...whew, if only i could have more moments like that...

[Lindalirien O Lorien]

Oh man that's wicked funny. Ha ha. Were they like fan girls? Ha I can just picture their faces...:D

[Kransha]

I actually mentioned this in another thread.

I have a "friend" who barely even understands the movie, yet he pretends to be as scholarly about the books and movies as I (not to brag, myself, of course). I can remember his most painful antics.

-First, after seeing FotR, he never got it into his head that Aragorn's name was Aragorn. He kept insisting that his real name was Strider and that Aragorn was in fact a nickname. I easily destroyed that visage by giving ALL of Aragorn's names, including the monker, "Strider." You should have seen his face when I said "Longshanks."

-This person is also a spoiler-maniac. Somehow he managed to find a spoiler site for TTT (why would this exist if people could just read the books to find out?) and was able to tell all my friends about the plot, pretending he'd read the book. I calmly asked him who Shelob was. He had the gall to insist that I had just picked out a really unimportant character so he would look stupid. I easily floored him by proving that Shelob is a crucial character in TTT.

[Sleepy Ranger]

I can't say anything like this has happened to me. People already know you can't beat me when it comes to Tolkien. Infact they ask me questions on Tolkien and what happens here and there. But once I was asked a really strange question. "Why did Harry go with Gandalf on the ship?" My answer-"Harry Applegate? Gandalf? Harry would've been at Bree not going with Gandlaf you're really mistaken my boy." And I've had many exciting moments. Like Legolas falling of an Oliphaunt and thus his death and of course Frodo turns evil and tries to kill Sam and Smeagol but Smeagol pushes Frodo in and falls in with him and Sam dies in the explosion and Aragorn, Gimli, Pippin and Merry are killed by orcs you should've seen their faces it was so funny. Best part they still haven't seen the movie 'cause they don't want to see them die. I mean how stupid can you get.

[rutslegolas]

ya i think these amatuers are really annoying .
i have one in the my school who claims to have to read the book 5 times and he still when he saw the movies didnt knew who aragorn and boromir were.
i wished i could punch them in the face:D

[Sleepy Ranger]

Hey now lets not resort to violence. If somebody ever says that he/shes better than me I wait till theres a big crowd then till them that he/she knows everything about Tolkien. Then I ask a couple of questions which someone whos just seen the movies won't know. And for the fun of it I ask some from the Silma, then see the look on their faces its even better when they answer something then you can give the correct answer with proof. See its easy no fighting no nothing just plain ol' fun with a bit of cruelty;)
Serves 'em right for making false claims.

[Eorl of Rohan]

I've given up trying to convert these people. They always end up making impossible and ridiculous claims, stick to them, cakll up some of their more moronic friends to support them. I'd rather talk with more intelligent barrow-downers.

[Everdawn]

Awwww! Dont be nasty to the newbies! They need to start somewhere, and even if they arent *cough* The most learned *cough* of Tolkien fans, if they stick with it in time they will learn from you guys. After they get blasted a few times by the senior members of the downs, they will straighten up, youll see!


(By the way, Go the fangirls! A+ for spirit! ;) )

[Fingolfin II]

Yeah, it is annoying sometimes. Like when I explained to my friend that Aragorn married his great-great-great- (one zillion greats) grand aunt and had a kid called Eldarion, she's like ***?

[Sirithheruwen]

There are only two people in my class that are REAL Tolkeinites: Myself and my friend Alex. Our friend, EJ, is an amuature (sp?) but she doesn't try to rub her Tolkein knowledge (or lack there of) in everyone's faces. She liked hearing me tell her about the books and she DOES plan on reading them someday: just not yet. I do believe she's read the Hobbit though. There are, however, twins in my class that are pretty amuature-ish. Once, when one of them was reading the books in school, she got to the battle of Pellennor fields when Pippin killled the troll but blacked out, and she told everyone that Pippin died (and this was before the movies, so there was no fangirls to mortally wound). I was arguing with her, and she read me the passage and said, "See! I told you so!" :eek: I asked her if she had read on, and she said no, she wanted to stop here because Pippin died. She annoys me so much!:mad: She's always trying to ursurp my throne, BUT SHE WILL NOT SUCCEED!!!:p

[Kransha]

Originally posted by Fingolfin II
Yeah, it is annoying sometimes. Like when I explained to my friend that Aragorn married his great-great-great- (one zillion greats) grand aunt and had a kid called Eldarion, she's like ***?

Somehow that doesn't seem like much of an issue. There's a large difference between noobs who don't understand more trivial facts and those who don't understand the basics. I've encountered many who don't trust the more unimportant and trivial things I tell them about the book, and I don't mind these people. Telling people that Arwen is in fact an extremely distant aunt of Aragorn would get them off guard easily, and is to be expected. Then there are those who think that Tom Bombadil is made up because he's not in the movies.

I've already mentioned that I have one overbearingly annoying counterpart who makes stuff up about LotR, but I have my share of people who just don't grasp stuff as well. I actually enjoy explaining to them the subtle nuances of the book.

[Nirvana II]

all of us are amateurs (sp.?) compared to C.T. and JRRT

[Knight of Gondor]

Awwww! Dont be nasty to the newbies! They need to start somewhere, and even if they arent *cough* The most learned *cough* of Tolkien fans, if they stick with it in time they will learn from you guys. After they get blasted a few times by the senior members of the downs, they will straighten up, youll see!

I agree we shouldn't be so harsh on Newbies. But this post is about annoying people, people who learn the name of a Noldor king from the Ancient Days, and instantly assume they know more than those of us who have read the books for quite a while. I should still consider myself a bit of a newbie, since I've only immersed myself in Tolkienology for the past two years. Nevertheless, in that time frame, I have read the series several times, gone over the Appendices several times, and purchased (or received) several of the Histories (including The Silmarillion) and have read them.

Still, I must again remind everyone that the image we should try to fight is a stuck-up know-it-all about Tolkien.

[Finwe]

Definitely. Just keep in mind that in the end, we are all newbies. Only the Professor has the right to not have the title of "Newbie."

[Knight of Gondor]

I would disagree with that. There are obviously people who have read and studied this sort of thing for years...or else there would not have been such things as Elvish language coaches for the movies!!

No one will ever reach "fully professional" stage, but lots of people will reach "very proficient" stage.

[Finwe]

Point taken, but what exactly does constitute a newbie?

[Firefoot]

I think that the definition of "Newbie" will depend on who you are talking to. For myself, I would say that it has nothing to do with how long you have read/enjoyed LotR and only somewhat with how much knowledge a person has. For example, who is more of a Newbie: a person who has read LotR four times, the Hobbit twice, and the Sil once but only understood half of everything they read or a person who has thoroughly read LotR twice, the Hobbit once, and got a quarter of the way through the Sil and decided they needed to read LotR again first before reading it? It depends on your opinion.

I also think there are two kinds of Newbies: the annoying kind who read/see LotR and think they know everything and the kind that you are glad to talk to because they know they don't know everything and are genuinely interested in learning more. The kind that Gil-Galad had in mind when he started this thread was probably the first kind. There is nothing to complain about with the second kind.

[Finwe]

Ok... thanks muchly...


I agree, the first kind can be more than a bit annoying, but we just have to be patient with them. Getting flustered is just going to make things worse, so there's absolutely no point in doing that.

[nynnd1]

The worst type are Orlando Bloom lovers. But i was once a film lover and what turned me to the books was the charcater of Tom Bombadil. he is the best.

[Hot, crispy nice hobbit]

Totally agree!

I really hope someone would get knocked on the head one day and wish to make a Movie on Prof T's work: The Adventures Of Tom Bombadil!

Or should I start writing a scribt...?

:D

[bilbo_baggins]

I may not have many posts (a zillion like you real old 'downers'), but I can hold my own. Once a girl asked me what I thought of Tolkien, and I said I was crazy about his works. She whipped back with something like, "Well that's just wrong, because Tolkien's books are paganistic!" I could just have screamed out, "Well, Tolkien was the one who led the great C.S. Lewis to Christianity!" I thankfully held myself back.

(Not intended to be offensive to other religious entities, although Tolkien was Christian.:D )

[bilbo_baggins]

Originally posted by Hot, crispy nice hobbit
Totally agree!

I really hope someone would get knocked on the head one day and wish to make a Movie on Prof T's work: The Adventures Of Tom Bombadil!

Or should I start writing a scribt...?

:D

I could be your scriptmaster! (Or maybe spellchecker?)["scribt"]

[The Mushroom]

I agree that Tolkien "fans" that think they know everything about Middle Earth but really have no clue, and no desire to learn from the real Middle Earth scholars (not that I am one), are rather irritating. I know afew of those. I tried to have a Tolkien discussion with this guy at my church who obviously thought his knowledge was vastly superior to mine (hehehe) and I came out victorious (hohoho)! Ah, It feels good to beat them, don't it? I'm kind of a newbie myself though (only read LoTR, Hobbit, and Silm once! Almost through UT) so I can't be too hard on anybody. :)

[elfearz1]

One positive thing to this, before the third movie came out, i tricked like 5 girls that Legolas dies!
hehehehe, I did this too! I mean, I know some fangirls who really know a lot about Lotr (one probably even knows more than me) but just happen to also find Orli cute. Some of them though.....
:mad:

Like this one girl who said "I saw Lotr 11 times and I didn't even like it." grrrrr

[The Perky Ent]

A really weird moment is when the get the people mixed up. One time i heard: So, the elves try to kil everyone but hobbits save the day with their allies, the orcs. then men come and throw spears at elves, but kill the hobbits. So the orcs are the good guys! Now i get it! It's so obvious! The only thing i can say about that is :eek: :eek: and :rolleyes: if only they'd use some common sense!

[Gil-Galad]

Well, on Starcraft and Warcraft 3, i played a map and on SC, it said that Elrond and Galadriel were the king and queen of the elves, both maps for wc3 and sc don't even have gondor and rohan and isengard in the right place! i mean come on! if you can't do a good job don't do one at all!

[bilbo_baggins]

It sounds as though the makers of that particualr map were rather uninformed!

(HeHeHeHe!)

[Gil-Galad]

i know, when i played them, they were horrible, and theres some people out there that say they are the best!

for wc3:


Rivendell Shire Lorien(with ents...)


Dwarves


Isengard Rohan Moria



Gondor Mordor


Its a rought copy of the map, titled "the war of the ring"

Team 1: elves, hobbits and dwarves
Team 2 Gondor and Rohan
Team 3: ISengard
Team 4: Moria and Mordor

And mordor has sauron at beginning! with like 83-97 damage at start!

[Thorongil]

I only know two persons other than myself who has read the book. All the others are too lazy. They like the movies, but the book is too much for them. They ask me questions about things not fully explained in the movie, so I tell them: read the book. But do they listen? Noooo.

[bilbo_baggins]

But you know all of us! We have read the books, too you know; or we would not be here to tell you, silly!

[Thorongil]

I guess you're right there. :D

[Fosco Burrows]

I've put the book in front of my housemate and all he does is flick through it reading the odd page, I've read it and if I do that it confuses me, what chance does he have?!
FB

[nynnd1]

I love reading the books, i know alot of people that say have but obviously havent, that is really annoying.

I have been looking for a copy of the Tom Bombadil book for ages but havent found one, and bombadil is my favourite character. is it worth tracking down or should i wait for a copy to find me.

[Hot, crispy nice hobbit]

Strangely, "Roverandom" was much easier to find than "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil" or "The Road Goes Ever On"...

My copy was a birthday present... *fingers the precious* but that was a real long time since... If you are really impatient, you should order it, but the cost would be so much higher...

[Neferchoirwen]

What I also find annoying is all the behind-the-scene stories that are better left with the dvds.

Although making the movie is very memorable and fun to talk about, it just seems idiotic to talk about them and consider it "Tolkien talk." It just doesn't make sense to me.

However, I just hope that these "fans" (a misnomer, no doubt) would not remain "unread" and therefore relatively ignorant fans.

I feel sorry for the buggers.

[Lyta_Underhill]

I have been looking for a copy of the Tom Bombadil book for ages but havent found one, and bombadil is my favourite character. is it worth tracking down or should i wait for a copy to find me. If you're referring to "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil," this is contained in The Tolkien Reader, which I bought from Half.com . It is also available on Amazon.com and sometimes on Ebay.com . I bought one for 99 cents plus shipping. The books I'm waiting on are the HoME series books. Having devastated my credit card for a million reasons, most of them being the replacement of tires in this area of VERY rough roads, I haven't bought any new books in a while.

They ask me questions about things not fully explained in the movie, so I tell them: read the book. But do they listen? Noooo. Perhaps you should show them a portion of the movie and then read them the corresponding quote from the book from behind a makeshift lectern...well, I suppose everyone has his or her own style! ;) Or perhaps tell them to go into the middle of the woods and lean against a tree and read...no distractions but the odd bird-dropping--heh heh!

My own conclusion is that those who were meant to come to the books will do so in their own time. It took me many years to finally crack the books, even though I had them in my library for a long time. The Hobbit is always a good "way in!"

Cheers!
Lyta

[Orcrist]

I have some amateurs at my school. Some of them only know LOTR from the videogames. There is one kid who has read the books but he doesn't really like to discuss(he's too cool :rolleyes: ) I do have a friend who does like to discuss them but we don't do it very often. I have a cousin who loves Viggo Mortensen so I told her that he gets stepped on by a troll and dies in RotK. She was literally crying :D

[Pyroclastic]

I allways have a good laugh over the people who make it all the way through the books, then complain about the return to the shire being 'pointless'. Yup, very pointless indeed; they only destroyed Saruman, Wormtounge, and inspired the timid Hobbit cluture to stand up for themselves. True LOTR fans are so hard to come by. That what makes The Downs so awsome! Three cheers for us!
~Pyro~

[Saraphim]

Hey, Gil-Galad , I did the same thing! I even had one girl nearly in tears! Cruel, I know, but they were the annoying type. A few I knew actually carried the trilogy around with them, but when questioned about The Barrow-Downs, or the fogginess of it, they were clueless.

I discovered that they had only read the bits with Legolas in them. I almost beat them over the head with the trilogy.

[Araswooon]

Hello Bookworms.

Aawwwww I think your being very unfair to all them "newbies" to Lord Of The Rings. They had probably never read the books before the film came out, so give them a break eh?

I'm new to it myself, well slightly. I read the books when i was 12 and really loved them, and ever since i've been a fan of Tolkien, but i'm not as clued up as you lot. Since i joined several LOTR messageboards i've read Tolkien experts posts like yourselfs and have learned a great deal from people like you. I still get confused and ask daft questions, but unlike some i did know about the Trilogy before the film came out so i did know what was happening and who was who and so on. Please don't take the mick though because i'm sure they would have liked to have known the truth if you had told them without mocking them.

More people are starting to read the book because of seeing the film now, so please understand them a bit better, eh?

I'm impressed by all your knowledge by the way.. :)

[Bêthberry]

This is a rather tardy reply to Nynnd1's comment:


I have been looking for a copy of the Tom Bombadil book for ages but havent found one, and bombadil is my favourite character. is it worth tracking down or should i wait for a copy to find me.


Lyta has kindly given a source in The Tolkien Reader but "The Adventures of Tom Bombadil" can also be found in the volume of faery tales, Tales from the Perilous Realm, a Harper Collins paperback, ISBN 0 261 10343 1. I rather like the cover, with its reverse chiaroscuro of black background with white shaded figures from the tales (a bit like my avatar, if I might with modesty point that out). I am fond of reading the stories in this collection because it highlights Tolkien's very good, to my mind, lecture "On Fairy-Stories."

The selection on Tom is really a collection of verse rather than prose story, but they all belong to the realm of faery. For your information, a blurb on the back of the book from The Listener calls TAoTB "Something close to genius."

[Sirithheruwen]

More people are starting to read the book because of seeing the film now, so please understand them a bit better, eh?

I'm impressed by all your knowledge by the way.. :)

These aren't the people we are talking about - in fact, I for one quite admire them and cheer them on! The people we're talking about are the people who have only seen the movies and think they are right about EVERYTHING. For example, some people think Tom Bombadil doesn't exist because he isn't in the movies. Or, when you tell them that Frodo sold Bag End to the Sackville-Baginnses, and went to "live" in Crickhollow, they: 1) Deny the existance of the Sackville-Bagginses, 2) Deny that Frodo sold Bag End, and 3) Deny the existance of Crickhollow, simply on the basis that "it wasn't in the movies." And THEN, they say, "And you call yourself a LOTR fan!" (And this is all based on experiance.) :eek:

[Araswooon]

Hello Sirithheruwen.

yeah i guess your right. So did you like the film? Did you prefer the book? What would you have included in the film? :)

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Nope not where I come from. They watch the movies, enjoy Legs or the fight scenes, then forget Tolkien ever existed. Zwing!

A consolation is that no-one here claims to know everything. No annoying amateurs.

[bilbo_baggins]

So, Nilpaurion Felagund, are you saying that because we don't think we know it all, we prove therefore that we are not amatuers?

Nice Sig, but confusing...

[Thorongil]

I think it is important to separate amateurs from ANNOYING amateurs. An amateur is a person who wants to read books and learn more, but an annoying amateur doesen't have to read, because they claim to know everything.

[Araswooon]

Well thats a relief Thorongil i'm an ameteur in your eyes then. I loved the films and book, and i want to learn more. When i read all your imput and facts on the book, i'm really impressed. I also enjoy reading about what had happened to the Charactors after the Ring was destroyed, amazing and very brilliantly done. Tolkien is indeed a remarkable man.

Kimberley xxx :)

[Thorongil]

Well, I fitted my own discription a while ago. When the first film came, I didn't even know what LOTR was. :o Now, I've read some books, and reading whatever I can find in the library. It's the most interesting books I've ever read.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I think it is important to separate amateurs from ANNOYING amateurs. An amateur is a person who wants to read books and learn more, but an annoying amateur doesen't have to read, because they claim to know everything.'
Exactly, Eagle of the Star. Nobody here claims to know everything because nobody here wants to know anything.

Kinda lonely out here. It's a good thing you guys are here, spanning the endless ocean to reach out to me. Else I would have been like one of those annoying amateurs, or I would have dropped the lore of Middle-earth all together.

[Gil-Galad]

For the record, i knew about this site for awhile before joining it, after a read teh books a couple times and felt confident, i joined hoping that this wasn't a movie-goers site, but its not and i'm glad

[Lyta_Underhill]

An amateur is a person who wants to read books and learn more, but an annoying amateur doesen't have to read, because they claim to know everything. An apt observation, Thorongil, because, in my opinion, the term "amateur" is often misused in common parlance. I understand this term to mean someone who pursues an interest out of love, thus the prefix "ama-" or "amat-" (but, I think Bethberry would be more skilled at pulling out the etymological reference than I, who merely remembered the prefix meaning!) Perhaps an "annoying amateur" would be one who loves the subject matter but rattles on in an annoying manner about it! :D

Cheers!
Lyta

[Estel'sAngel]

All my friends haven't read the book and everybody at my schools (in high school and some in college) considered themselves experts on Tolkien because of the movies.

I got a kick out of it in my Senior AP English class when I did a presentation on Tolkien. They all started asking me questions from the trilogy.

"Boromir was evil, how come he was in the Fellowship?"
"What, who was that character again? You know...the greasy one with the sword."

So I told them that Boromir was a good guy, just easily persauded by the Ring and that the greasy one was my fave character, Aragorn.

"How do you know so much?"

"I've been reading the books every year since the 6th grade."

So I know annoying amateurs. But luckily I do know that some are making an effort to read the books or at least come to me and see how that part happened in the book. I like being an expert in their eyes, but then I come here and see how much I don't know. Sorta a good feeling ya know. Just to know you're own standing and importance in the world.

[Lord Tyler Neflonde]

I may not have many posts (a zillion like you real old 'downers'), but I can hold my own. Once a girl asked me what I thought of Tolkien, and I said I was crazy about his works. She whipped back with something like, "Well that's just wrong, because Tolkien's books are paganistic!" I could just have screamed out, "Well, Tolkien was the one who led the great C.S. Lewis to Christianity!" I thankfully held myself back.

(Not intended to be offensive to other religious entities, although Tolkien was Christian.:D )

I read a tract by Jack Chick called "Dark Dungeons", that listed both J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis as occult writers. Bloody idiot that Jack Chick is, actually thinks he's winning souls with such rubbish.

But the worst would have to be idiots who know nothing of the First age, think Boromir is a prince, etc. The type to write lame SI fanfiction with Mary Sue characters...

[Paulus Of The Shire]

hey
im an amateur and i do nt think i know it all.... in fact my rather limited knowledge of middle earth saddens me sometimes as i think of all the years mum had a huge poster on the wall that she received as a gift and i didnt even relize it was lord of the rings...... anyway just like to say that i am hoping to learn a bit on here, and id appreciate the help of any more experiences tolkien fans..... remember, u were all amateurs once too :)

[GandalfGreyheme]

Don't you think there's a tad too much of th word ME around? I floored the guy. I easily explained it...fine you people have read a lot. but the way you brag only proves you know so little and have given up on learning. People read LOTR and think they are gurus. after silmarilion they blow up furthur. Cut some slack man there's so much to learn. Well never mind Snobs enrage me even more than the newbies the are the real I-am-the-true-LOTR-fan wannabies

, , | , ,

:mad:

[Lyta_Underhill]

Don't you think there's a tad too much of th word ME around? Short for Middle Earth, right? ;) I figure there's got to be a place to brag about something I know, eh? The cool thing about ME is that, once you think you know something, you find more and more levels to it...and you discover just how much you don't know. I think this is true with people (both other people and yourself), as well as with Tolkien's works.

Cheers,
Lyta ( ME-obsessed )

[Kitanna]

So back in the day when I could barely read my dad gets this movie. It's the really old cartoon of the Fellowship of the Ring and it scared the crap out of me. Put me off from the Trilogy until the movies came out. Now it wasn't like I didn't know about them, (I mean my mom read me the Hobbit like four summers in a row and I loved it) but LOTR scared me and I never wanted to see it.

But I have to thank the movies. Because even as a freshmen in high school I was scared of that cartoon which I hadn't watched since I was four. My parents dragged me to see the Fellowship of the Ring and I fell in love. After that I had to read the books and learn everything there was to know.

And yes at first it was all about the movie, but I'd like to say I've come a long way since then. I can't stand the ones who haven't read or in some cases haven't heard of the books. And those that have that think they're so boring. I love the movies, but they lack so much from the books. Like Tom Bombadil, the Scouring of the Shire, and just little things that made the books for me.

So it sounds like I'm an amateur and I am, but I'm trying to shed that because I really do love the books and I could spend the rest of my life locked away reading them.

[Kransha]

Just to clarify...

This thread is not about some people, including me, talking about how Tolkein-smart we are and others are not. This is a thread were we vent about the people who think they know everything. We don't claim to know everything and are still learning, so we get annoyed when they claim to be experts when they clearly know less than us, who are not even truly experts ourselves. So, we prove our views to them by showing our humble knowledge and hoping that they'll learn that they don't know everything. We try, oh how we try, but with these folk, we rarely succeed.

This thread was, more or less, created to vent and talk about these 'amateurs.' I respect those who want to learn, since I also want to learn, but I cannot respect those who say they don't need to. I try to teach them, but they are the snobby ones, refusing to learn and insisting they know.

[Boromir88]

This is about people who have only watched the movie and think they know everything on LOTR. Or the ones that say they have read the books but they really haven't and they think the movies are the books.

Anyway easy questions here to tell if one has read the books or not that I will share. With some funny usual responses.

How many elves were at helms deep?
responses: "Ahh ya like you know the answer to that, I dont know 100?200?1000?"
"I can't count that much"<<<<I respond to that one with "you can't count to one"


Why did Gimli get mad at Eomer when they first met?

Who summoned the floods of Bruinen drowning the nazgul horses?
responses: I love the ones that say "Arwen" then you know they haven't read, but the ones that say "glorfindel" might have, even though "glorfindel" isn't the right answer.

Who is Sharkey?
Response: Hey, I thought you were asking LOTR questions

There are many more but I will not say the most funniest thing I've seen so far from a movie person has to be "Do you think PJ will make a LOTR 4."

[Boromir88]

Kransha, I do agree, I am not one that searches and destroys for movie people or do I like ones who do that. I could care less if one has read the books or not, and I encourage people to do so. It's the ones that lie and say they have read the books when they haven't. Those are the ones you ask my questions to above

[Finwe]

I apologize if we seem like we're snobbishly bashing other people with a genuine desire to learn. However, you can't condemn someone before reading or listening to what they have to say. We aren't bashing newbies or amateurs, in fact, we welcome them. We are just expressing our abject dislike of the amateurs who think that they know it all. Granted, the majority of amateurs are wonderful people. But there is that approximately 15% who thinks that because they know a few things, they know everything, and proceed to condemn everyone else. Those are the people we dislike. I apologize again if we seem otherwise, but you should listen to what the other "camp" has to say before passing any condemnations. Many posts in this thread clarify our position.

[Lady Snickerdoodle]

Yep well I've only been on here for less than a year or so but I read the Hobbit and LOTR when I was 7 and reread them a lot, but haven't read the Silm or any of the HoME... am I still an amateur? just wondering how far you have to go to become a Sensei. But then again, I don't think I'll ever say that I know everything, because that's kind of impossible.

Also, it really bothers me when people pronounce names or places from the books wrong, and then try and tell me that I'M wrong. Like just today, one of my brother's friends was going on about "Ee-o-whine" and refused to switch to "Aeowin" (im writing pronounciation obviously). Later, he was "wisely" explaining to another friend about how "Eeowhine" secretly wants to marry "Grime-a" but can't because "Strider" would get jealous. :mad: :mad: :mad: Also, I saw a review or fan fic somewhere where the author consistently spelled Sauron as Souron, which was irkful. And there's way too many long Americanized vowels I've heard to rant on about here.

[GandalfGreyheme]

Gah! so is the power of the enemy. He turns bretheren to enemies. ;) LOTR rocks tolkien rules!

[Lady Snickerdoodle]

He turns bretheren to enemies. But an ignorant person who not only poses as a know-it-all but refuses to take corrections or learn more would definitely not be my friend. Or any brethren that I would admit to having.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I hear people call Arwen a princess over a million times. Still ticks me off every time.

A newspaper column here called Sauron a wizard. Possibilities: the writer read UT, and concluded erroneously; or just made a WAG.

Come to think of it, there are annoying amateurs here.

[Gil-Galad]

I've seen worse, somewhere, Elrond was called king of elves and Galadriel queen, and they both live in Rivendale(i know its suppose to be Rivendell) and they live with ents...

[Ainaserkewen]

The elves of the Third age didn't have many monarchs, did they? Especially the remaining that were ruled by the Noldor or their decendants. Doesn't matter though.

I think the Arwen as a Princess stemed from the terms used to describe her character when people were reviewing the movies, and in some cases, the books. "Warrior Princess" was a term used in a lot of the articles I read. I don't know if the reviewers meant it that she was a Princess, but her movie character would have resembled one. Think Xena. Hahahah, funny mental picture.

Who summoned the floods of Bruinen drowning the nazgul horses?

Good discovery question. Anyone who has read the books wouldn't say Arwen.

My opinion on such people who take hold of Movie information as Canon to the entire story (Canon meaning that it's true), they should either read the books, or shut their mouths when a downer is talking. ;)

Last note: Everyone is an amature, right? It's what makes them annoying that gets on everybody's nerves. You wouldn't be bashing someone who doesn't know a thing, but is inquizitive and humble to the fact that they don't. That's what I started out as anyway.

[Estel'sAngel]

Here's a good one I've heard from my own friends, but they're trying. As long as people try, I'm happy.

*Note, I'm scared of spiders, and yet Shelob didn't bother me until the movie. I looked like this guy... :eek:

"I can see why you're so scared of spiders. Reading the third book must have been hard for you."

Me: "Actually, she wasn't in the third book. She was in the Two Towers, but Jackson put her in the third movie for some odd reason."

"Oh. Well what part of the movie was like the book?"

Me thinking.."An opening, at last!"

Me saying: "That would take awhile. I can lend ya my books if you want so you can find out!"

I like the ones who actually try to understand the difference and want to know about the books. But those 15% who feel they know everything because of the movies... :mad: I look like that guy after 5 minutes with them!

[Gil-Galad]

Shelob was in 3rd movie because, when frodo and sam were climbing up, thats when the witch-king began his attack in minas tirith, and that didn't begin till the third book, so they did that not to confuse the viewers

[Thorongil]

Well, they had a problem in the movie since there was really six books, not three, so they changed between them all the time. I've always thought it would be cool if they had made six movies instead, with half a year between. Then they could include more.

[Saraphim]

I've said this before and I'll say it again. I wish I could take the annoying psuodo-fans and punt them off of cliffs.

But I can't, so I vent it here. Lucky you guys, huh?

Anyway here's my biggest pet peeve:

Annoying Person:"Eowyn kicked that guy's butt! No guy could have done that! Girl power!"

Me: "Grrrr. Eowy was not a femminist. And what movie were you watching anyway? She would have been Mace Mcnuggets if it wasn't for Merry. Who, despite the fact that he's not a man, is still male"

Annoying Person: "Well duh, but still... Eowyn rules. You go girl!"

Grrrr.

[Saraphim]

Oh, and BTW, I agree. Amateurs are not annoying. All of us were amateurs once. But it's the annoying ones that really get under my skin.

[Potatothan]

Indeed the A.A.'s are very annoying. (and no that doesn't stand for Alcoholic Anounamus) I once watched ROTK in the theater and there was this guy bragging to his friends about how well his knowledge was. Of course you can brag to your friends, I don't mind. But this guy was ranting from the ticket box till the seats and afther the previeuws he still went going. And believe me, it was very annoying considering the fact that he was sitting NEXT TO ME. :mad:

So he went on making stupid comments, making them up as he went, untill I had enough. When the corronation of Aragorn was taking place, and Eowyn came into screen he said: Eowyn still has a secret love for Aragorn and will die of her griefs.

So I just leaned over and said: Eowyn is happely married to Faramir and is going to life in Ithilien stupid. Would you now please be quite so I can watch at peace?

Needless to say he wasn't so populair with his friends afther the movie was over. But you know what the fun thing is? He was in the same train as me afther the movie and he asked me all kinds of stuff. He tolled me he had started in Fotr, but had only made it untill the birthday party. I also tolled him about the silm and he was really excited. So sometimes an A.A. isn't an A.A. but just goes a little further than his knowledge because of excitement.

For myself, I went to Fotr, totaly clueless of what the heck it was. I only had gotten a puzzle from lotr for x-mas, cuz my cousing thought it looked pretty cool. Which it did, but I had no clue what it was. I was puzzled so to speak. So after fotr I went again, and again, and again, and then I was out of money and for my birthday I got the book and later on the silm. The hobbit and the adventures of Tom Bombadil I got from the library, so it can always turn out ok.

~Potatothan

[Etharius]

Just read the 1st post.

Get over it, why do you care what people thing they know.

[bilbo_baggins]

Because, Etharius: (As the title says) They're Annoying! There are some who you can't run away from, and confront you with multitudes of plagiaristic believings and false ideas. They are the ones we wish didn't not show off their fake knowledge and untrue wisdom so flagrantly. That's what this thread is about, discussing "Annoying Amatuers", and there is a point to the discussion.

And it's not that we care about what they do or don't know, it's that they show off prominently that they know exactly nothing more than the name of the book, it's author, and a character name or two. When they spread false ideas, it's not kind to other Tolkien-fans, and it's discouraging to interested young ones who would like to know more.

[Gil-Galad]

I agree with bilbo, this thread is about the annoying amateurs that think they know everything about lotr's just by watching the movie, it'll be like "hey , are you smart at lord of the rings?" "yah! i've seen every movie like 7 times!" "okay... prove it!" "fine, ask me a question, i'll get it right!" "who was Tom Bombadil?"
"tom bombadilaidapo? who the **** is that? you loser ask me some real questions"...............that is basically what most things happen with amateurs, and it is our privlege nay, duty to point them out and laugh at them wit ha deep HA HA HA, you know, from your diaphram. its better to be a tolkien know-it-all then just a little man that watches the movies and remembers every line they say. well that is my little speech, that'll cost yah 20 thousand each! good day!

http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/images/nedancer.gif

must...dance...the...night...away...hey a nickel!

[nynnd1]

huhrrah for Gil-Galad, probably the best and most truthful point anyone has ever said! :D

[Olorin_TLA]

I know someone who, when I pointed out that Uruk-hai weren't gronw like potatoes as PJ shows them, actually said that I and Tolkien must be wrong, and got uber-aggresive. Riiiight... :rolleyes:

[Olorin_TLA]

Also, though non-book readers can't be blamed, it's annoying when a book-lover wuotes a line that was changedin the film, from the film. It's like the book was erased from their memories...

[Laitoste]

My personal opinion on this is that we are all, technically, amateurs. Unless someone else is getting paid to be here. Then I want to know why THEY are and I'M not. Because that's not fair. :p

Anyway, I've been here since November (2003), and I still consider myself to be an amateur. I've read The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings countless times. I still consider myself an amateur. I've read The Silmarillion a couple of times (and didn't understand a word of it until I heard the book-on-tape :rolleyes: ). I still consider myself an amateur. Why? Because I don't know HALF as much as I could. I can "show off" my knowledge to random people, but I don't know that much. I can correct people (nicely) when they make a mistake.

I, fortunatly, have not had much of an experience with "annoying" amateurs. The only ones I know are my brother and my cousin, and they just say stupid stuff to make me angry. And when people do try to show off with false facts, I don't think that it's our place to criticize them. Yes, they are being stupid, and I know that it must be fun to make them look bad, but it doesn't make us look any better to insult them. I firmly believe that this creates a bad image for all of us. Eventually, these people will move on to something else, and will annoy other people. The people who really care will be around in a few years, not those. They will be selling their DVD's at garage sales. Ignore them. But do keep posting their antics here. It's really quite fascinating. Just be polite.

[Iaurhirwen]

The other day I got into this conversation with a good friend of mine about the pronunciation of Sméagol. The're quite intelligent and having studied French for 2 years was in the process of saying to someone else that it is 3 sylablles and not 2.

Having heard that (I have this ability to detect anything LOTR related in an instant, anyone else have this uncanny ability? :D ;) ) I promptly proceeded to tell them that they were mistaken and that it was only 2. They kept insisting that because there was an accent mark, there were 3 syllables.

After a few minutes of my trying to explane the basis of his name in terms of its Old English roots and her still insisting there were 3 syllables she finally said, "I shouldn't be arguing with you, you know more about LOTR than I do."

Not quite an A-A gripe, but it is quite funny when someone thinks they have the right answer when they don't. I think it's our job to correct those common things that we know people get wrong, like the whole Arwen/Glorfindel thing and the "love triangle" between Arwen/Aragorn/Eowyn.

I am always glad to meet people who are new to LOTR and help them when they are stuck. I don't profess to know everything about LOTR, it's quite impossible really, but for those of us who have read the books and understand them, we have the ability to help and should do so, without sounding and being snobbish, of course.

Sorry for my rant. I do that sometimes when I'm hyper. ;)

[Gil-Galad]

One thing that is "newbish" is peeps saying that what they say about lotr is right, like this one kid says that a book called "peoples of middle earth", it says that Gil-Galad is Orodreths son, when Tolkien clearly wrote that he was Fingons, that kid said it was corrected in PoME, which wasn't written by tolkien, so how could they so-called correct it, if tolkien didn't even write it anywhere saying "oh yah, gil-galad is actually orodreths son, ignore about a couple of chapters saying its fingons....that really bugged me....sorry folks no dancing elf this time, but i do have BADGERS!!!(sorry badgers no work...gotta fix it...)



bye peeps, remember to keep on rocking in the free world!

[bilbo_baggins]

I liked your dancing Elf that other time, Gil-Galad! Too bad we can't have more of them!

And I do believe that Fingon was your daddy! (He is your daddy, isn't he?)

People, quote me on this: "Annoying Amatuers are, well, just that; Annoying!"

[Orominuialwen]

The other day I got into this conversation with a good friend of mine about the pronunciation of Sméagol. The're quite intelligent and having studied French for 2 years was in the process of saying to someone else that it is 3 sylablles and not 2.

Having heard that (I have this ability to detect anything LOTR related in an instant, anyone else have this uncanny ability? ) I promptly proceeded to tell them that they were mistaken and that it was only 2. They kept insisting that because there was an accent mark, there were 3 syllables.

After a few minutes of my trying to explane the basis of his name in terms of its Old English roots and her still insisting there were 3 syllables she finally said, "I shouldn't be arguing with you, you know more about LOTR than I do."
I pronounce it with 3 syllables, like smay-uh-goll, but whatever.

I once had an obnoxious girl who didn't even like LotR tell me that she couldn't remember Legolas' name, but she though he was hot, so she just called him "Arrow-Man."

I still consider myself an amateur, although hopefully not an annoying one. :rolleyes: I hadn't read any of the books before I saw FotR, but I started reading them shortly after that, so I've only been a fan of LotR for a little more than two years. I've only been on the 'Downs for a bit less than a year, and I've only read some scattered bits of HoME. I think that it's perfectly fine to be an amateur, so long as you don't think you know everything.

[Tulkas the Mighty]

have this ability to detect anything LOTR related in an instant, anyone else have this uncanny ability?
Yeah it happens to me all the time.. Its kinda fun :D

[Lush]

What's with the ego-tripping on this thread at the expense of people who just can't be bothered to give a hoot underneath it all?

Some are annoying, yes, but nowhere near as annoying as those who know bloody everything and righteously stick it in your face, whether you asked them to or not.

Seriously, the mistakes that people make when talking about Tolkien can even be humorous at times. I knew a movies fan who was convinced that the name "Legolas" was somehow derived from "Lego" of the cute little building blocks fame. Hee hee.

[HerenIstarion]

by Gil-Galad

One thing that is "newbish" is peeps saying that what they say about lotr is right, like this one kid says that a book called "peoples of middle earth", it says that Gil-Galad is Orodreths son, when Tolkien clearly wrote that he was Fingons, that kid said it was corrected in PoME, which wasn't written by tolkien




I assume the kid mentioned was rather over advanced a bit, for PoME is part of HoME - precisely, its volume 12, and HoME itself stands for History of Middle Earth, and is collection (with editorial notes and analysis made by JRRT's son Christopher) of Tolkien's drafts and different versions of stories which stand behind and form the ground for LoTR. One of the drafts indeed names Orodreth as Gil-Galad's father. Orodreth is also constantly shifting positions from Finrod Felagund's brother to his son, mere kinsman and steward and back to brother.

HoME vXII,


The only further change was the rejection of the name Artaresto and its replacement by Artaher, Sindarin Arothir; and thus in the excursus (note 23) Arothir [Orodreth] is named as Finrod's 'kinsman and steward', and (note 47) Gil-galad is 'the son of Arothir, nephew of Finrod'. The final genealogy was


Angrod, brother of Finrod Felagund ----> Artaher/Arothir [Orodreth] ----> Artanaro/Rodnor/Gil-galad



But do not dispair :) - though there is no need to expunge such a version, there is no opposite obligation either to change the knowledge you were sticking to up to now. Just allow for yourself that there are several sources that state some facts differently.

by Lush

Some are annoying, yes, but nowhere near as annoying as those who know bloody everything and righteously stick it in your face, whether you asked them to or not



Did I just do that? :eek:

[Iaurhirwen]

Yeah, I actually looked up the pronunciation of Smeagol and its 2 syllables but, whatever.

One of the most annoying things I have found to arise lately is the number of internet quizzes that test you on your character compatability. There are some good ones out there but a majority of them are low class and very "newbee-ish." Especially the fangirl ones about which male character is your true love or whatever. I truely can't stand them.

[Gil-Galad]

so which would be correct? the silmarillion or PoME/HoME?

[bilbo_baggins]

Well, based on what he said, Gil-galad, I think you can go one way or another:

there is no opposite obligation either to change the knowledge you were sticking to up to now.

So, feel free to find your own father!

What's with the ego-tripping on this thread at the expense of people who just can't be bothered to give a hoot underneath it all?

Lush: I'm not sure I understand your comment; are you saying we should not be so down on the newbies, even the ones who are highly abrasive? The "annoying" ones are the ones who we dislike, and who we discuss on this thread.

[Esgallhugwen]

I would never make fun of the newbies who are trying to learn, I myself could probably be considered a newbie. I've only read LOR twice, The Silmarillion twice and the Hobbit twice (not including the graphic novel which is like a huge comic book of the Hobbit) But anyway, it is annoying when people claim to have read the books. Such as an ex- friend of my brothers (they're not friends for other reason than this). My brother asked him a question because he didn't believe his friend had actually read the books *just a note my bro hasn't read them either but knows enough from what I've told him, the little details and such* anyway I believe he asked him who Shelob was, or something to that effect, his friend replied that it was some bird or something. When my brother told him that was wrong that she was in fact a rather large spider he didn't belive him! :eek: Oh boy! and let me not forget he stated he couldn't wait for Tolkiens next LOR book to come out, sorry little boy I'm afraid he's no longer among the living, and LOR was meant to be a trilogy only.


I really hope i don't have the tendency to stick info in people's faces, I mean if their incorrect about something I will politely correct but sometimes they take that the wrong way, thinking I'm obsessed or trying to show off, its not like I just start going off on a tangent about all that is LOR. It sometimes makes me sad :( But ohwell thats what you guys are here for support! :)

[Lush]

Lush: I'm not sure I understand your comment; are you saying we should not be so down on the newbies, even the ones who are highly abrasive? The "annoying" ones are the ones who we dislike, and who we discuss on this thread.

No, by all means, carry on, kids. And adults. And those who fall in between.

I just find the whole "Revenge of the Nerds" feeling on this thread hilarious.

Myself being the most dedicated (two years and counting!) of nerds, naturally.

[mark12_30]

**cough** thirty **cough**

Ehh? What's that yew say, yew young whippersnapper? Ehhh???

...cough cough KACK ack wheeze cough....
**gropes for cane, hobbles toward wheelchair**

So, Lush m'babe, what did YOU have embroidered on your jeans thirty years ago?

**pokes cane accusingly at Lush**

Or to put it another way, whose eyeliner were you charmed by back then? Eh?? Ehhh??

*rocks meditatively in wheelchair, considering newly-thrown gauntlet, resolving that if anyone behaves as obnixiously as I did in high school AND junior high I'll beat the snot out of 'em with my cane**

[Gil-Galad]

....i'm offically scared now... :eek:

[Laitoste]

I second that, Gil-Galad... :D

I met a good "amateur" today. She enjoys the movies (Frodo fancier :rolleyes: ) and she's in the middle of reading TTT. She's looking for The Silmarillion at the library. I said I'd help her read it (tough book, y'know, and I don't know that she'll like it), and guide her to sites like this. I'm so excited! I hope that she falls in love with it like I have. Then I'll have someone to talk to who I can see... I love the good newbies! :D

[ElberethVarda]

My brother always does that... and he hasn't seen the movies! He always is saying, "Legolas shoots his arrows so fast! It's so awesome!" He tries to seem like he knows more than people who have seen the movies. It's very annoying. :rolleyes:

[Mörke Keiser]

One positive thing to this, before the thrid movie came out, i tricked like 5 girls that Legolas dies! ha ha that was fun...whew, if only i could have more moments like that...


*har har har* Let the posers suffer :D

[Gil-Galad]

they were not really posers....just ill-informed and gullible

[Gorwingel]

Anyway, I've been here since November (2003), and I still consider myself to be an amateur.
Heck, I've been here since December of 2002 and still, most definitely, consider myself an amateur.

And I am betting that I will always be an amateur just because I don't have the amazing ability to read through many of Tolkien's works once and instantly know everything about it (And also I get confused while reading The Book of Lost Tales, and have recently been too cheap to go out and buy Unfinished Tales).

But, hey, I'm still young. Most likely if I'm here in thirty years or so I will know everything. I am going by the read the Sil and LOTR (and maybe another Tolkien book) at least once a year kind of thing :cool:

And in addition I promise I will ask for The Unfinished Tales for Christmas

And also I have ran into many annoying amateurs. But I don't consider them annoying. I personally believe they are misguided ;)

[Lathriel]

Although amateurs can be annoying it is funny to make them belive one of the characters dies.

My brothger used to be an amateur but then me and my mom made him so curious he read LOTR.

Now a few days ago he was talking to his friends and they believed that Celeborn had one of the three rings. My brother told them that they were wrong but they wouldn't believed him so he scanned a part of the page of the book where the answer was and brought it to school. He is becoming a LOTR nut without knowing it. YEEEEHHH :D

[Lachwen]

You know, there was a time not too long ago when I would have fallen into the "amatures" bin. Specifically, when I saw FotR for the first time. At that point, my total experience with Tolkien was reading The Hobbit once six years earlier. When I got home that night I started a fanfiction. It was BAD. But then I started reading the books and, well, lost all semblence of a social life. ;) I never try to impose my knowledge of Tolkien stuff on people, but I do feel obligated to step in when someone is saying something patently WRONG (like inthe book "The History of Tolkien's Middle-earth For Dummies," when they misspelled Elladan's name as Ellahad I nearly died in the bookstore.). And my brother has been trying for over a year now to find a Tolkien trivia question that will stump me. I'm frightened because he's failing. :eek: I really need other interests...or do I?? ;)

have this ability to detect anything LOTR related in an instant, anyone else have this uncanny ability?

Oh, yeah. You know, maybe that explains my bad grade in math last year...

[Snowdog]

I know probaly everyone has heard of this before, but one thing that really annoys me after the movies came out was that people, who watched every movie like 7 times, think they no absolutly everything about LOTR. for example, if a iask them who was Tom Bombadil, they would say "theres no Tom Bombadil in LOTR" it really annoys me! I LOVE annoying amateurs who are movie-only fans :D . I use book code sayings like 'See at the Forsaken Inn', or 'We'll meet again at the house of Tom Bombadil', or 'Next year in Annúminas'. So instead of letting these PJ annoyances bug me, I turn the tables and annoy them and make them feel they are missing out.
:smokin:

[Arwen Evenstar]

I have friends who have never read the books and some that have. I have persuaded some to read the books just by talking to my other friends who have read them about stuff in the books that were left out of the movie. Did that make sense? :p :D

[Sapphire_Flame]

So instead of letting these PJ annoyances bug me, I turn the tables and annoy them and make them feel they are missing out.

Exactly! Just throw out enough Silm and UT references (or even *gasp* truly basic LotR book references) and they get confused beyond all get out. 'Tis highly amusing.

I've been on the site since September 2002, and I still think of myself as an "amatur", and shall until I've read Silm and UT as many times as I've read The Hobbit (about 35), and until I've read HoME at least five times.

What I think is thoroughly annoying is how people seem incapable of telling the difference between Sindarin and Tengwar. [super sarcasm mode]Gee, a spoken language and an alphabet that any language can be written in! Wow, that is so hard to figure out! [/super sarcasm mode] I just find this extraordinarily frustrating because of how often I must explain it to the same people over and over again.

Abedithon le,

~*~Aranel~*~

[Sauron_the_Abhorred]

My God, I have bad A. A.'s

Theres this one kid who knows I like Tolkien, and LotR, and he'll try to show off in front of me, but he's only seen the moveis, and he's awful with pronunciations. Heres a real example of what he'd say:

Hey *my name here*, do you like the part where Aragonen ( :rolleyes: ) is all killing the big ents, and he, like falls of the cliff. And then he comes back to life, because his daughter(supposed to be Arwen) prays to God.

so I'll correct him, and he'll just stare at me, not knowing what I meant, and then he'll say: Dude, your wrong. So, anyway, how 'bout that part where Fraydo( :mad: ) and Sam get captured by that evil guy(faramir), and then the Ringollums(don't ask, but I think he means Ringwraiths) attack, and they are about to save Fraydo, but Sam turns evil for a while, and doesnt let them save Fraydo.

So I'll correct him again, and he'll say, Dude, you dont know crap 'bout Lord of the Rings, and I'll say, you dont know crap about it, and he starts crying, I swear to God, he starts crying-hes a HUGE baby.....AAAAAAAGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHH death to that guy......


Ok, thanks. Namarië :cool:

[Kitanna]

Oh wow Sauron...that's...just wow. Did he really start crying? I'm trying hard not to laugh at that. I thought I knew some annoying people when it came to LOTR, but I can't compare to that.

So I know this girl and I created a monster because I made her come to the FOTR with me and she decided to read the books. And I swear everytime Legolas did something in the book she'd point it out (even though by this poit I had finished all three) and she was like he's so hot, blah blah blah. Not really an amaeture, but she was annoying. Just had to share that because she and all her annoying antics about LOTR are driving me insane.

[Sauron_the_Abhorred]

Well, he is that awful when it comes to LotR and Tolkien, and about him crying, well, he didn't cry, like, when I said that, we got in a small argument, but he does cry a lot, he is the BIGGEST BABY, AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...ok, got that outta my system....

Here's another example of me accidentally making him cry:

One time, in the science lab, my back-pack was in one of the sinks(we NEVER used those) and he accidentally turned the water on, which, of course, soaked my back-pack. I pulled it outta the sink, and yelled "Who did this" and he yelled back" I didn't do it on purpose", and he started bawling, I mean bad.... And I hadn't even blamed him, I just asked who did it.....

Ok, sorry for taking this of the subject.....

[Novberaid]

Yes, it is always easier to watch a movie than to put some time, effort and maybe a little research into finding out what JRR really wanted to reflect. I love the movies too, but there is so much more to be found.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Got the ultimate A.A.

I said to somebody who was saying how good the movies were that they should read the book. This person said, and I quote:

"I hate reading the book-versions of movies. The people they hire to turn the movies into the books never get it right."

[Kitanna]

That's horrible, but a friend of mine thought the same thing. I was telling her how things in the book were different and she goes "Oh I thought the book was based off the movie." I just laughed because she isn't really into LOTR, but it was still funny.

[Knight of Gondor]

Some are annoying, yes, but nowhere near as annoying as those who know bloody everything and righteously stick it in your face, whether you asked them to or not.

Perhaps you should start a thread about annoying experts. ;)

Myself being the most dedicated (two years and counting!) of nerds, naturally.

I first read the books when I heard rumors of the movie, and I’ve been devoted ever since.

I second that, Gil-Galad...

I met a good "amateur" today. She enjoys the movies (Frodo fancier) and she's in the middle of reading TTT. She's looking for The Silmarillion at the library. I said I'd help her read it (tough book, y'know, and I don't know that she'll like it), and guide her to sites like this. I'm so excited! I hope that she falls in love with it like I have. Then I'll have someone to talk to who I can see... I love the good newbies!

“Newbies” like that are good! They’re not annoying. We were all newbies once upon a time.

And I am betting that I will always be an amateur just because I don't have the amazing ability to read through many of Tolkien's works once and instantly know everything about it (And also I get confused while reading The Book of Lost Tales, and have recently been too cheap to go out and buy Unfinished Tales).

Don’t worry, Gorwingel! I got a little bogged down in Lost Tales 1 and 2 too! I’m only now working through UT, but I like most the stories about Númenor and Gondor and Rohan and Arnor. All those Noldor and Atari and Atani and older Elven kingdoms, while still pretty cool (as in, the stories of Tuor and Beren etc.) are so ancient, and one can get lost between all the Elven kingdoms and kings and people. I think the story of Turin is one of the saddest and unhappy tales, I don’t know what foul mood brought Tolkien to write it. But what I mean is, I prefer some of the newer stories and got a little lost myself in the older. (“Newer” and “older” meaning in terms of Middle-Earth years) If you can make it through the Silmarillion, or the Appendices if RotK, you’re probably doing good.

Although amateurs can be annoying it is funny to make them belive one of the characters dies.

*Chuckles* Yes, it is, isn’t it?

Now a few days ago he was talking to his friends and they believed that Celeborn had one of the three rings.

Even the two friends he was talking to evidently had some surface knowledge, beyond that of your average movie-goer. If you told them about Celeborn, they’d probably go “who?”

You know, there was a time not too long ago when I would have fallen into the "amatures" bin. Specifically, when I saw FotR for the first time.

Of course, we already discussed this to some extent in What Does it Take to be a Tolkien Expert, or something along those lines. No one blames anyone for being an “amateur” at all. The term is even open and subject to interpretation. What irritates us is people who pretend to know more than they do.

My parents are what you might call annoying. They care (a little) about LotR, if for no other reason than because my brother and sister love it so much. But we always have to stop and explain things for them, and repeat lines that they missed (my mom is always frustrated at Gandalf, because he really DOES mutter a whole lot, just barely able to make out his words, and she’s like “WHAT? What did he say?” and we have to repeat it), and then we have to explain and remind them of things. As in, “this guy is the guy whose brother got hit with all those arrows in the first movie. His father is the steward.” “So the steward is the king?” “No, he’s a steward, Gondor doesn’t have a king yet.” “And his son is this guy?” “Yeah, he’s the guy we saw before who meet Frodo and Sam.” “The brother with the arrows?” “Yes.”

Then there are things like “Why’s Gandalf riding out like that?” (When Mithrandir plunges forth from Minas Tirith to stave off the Nazgûl) “To frighten them off!” “Oh, with his magic wand?” “*SIGH*”. They miss a whole lot because they ask questions, then we have to remind them of things or tell them why something is going on. Mom didn’t see Théoden and Aragorn and co. riding to Edoras, so when they showed them making a toast, she was like “How’d they get there?” *Sigh* They’re fun, and it’s fun to watch a movie with someone who doesn’t know...it’s just not fun when we’re milked for all the details.

[Saraphim]

I think I fall into the "annoying experts" catagory. I have to keep reminding myself not to talk about Lord of the Rings in my daily life. It is...very hard. I get funny looks when I do because about 50 people (maybe) in Las Vegas are fans of the books. And half of them havn't done the Silmarillion and HoME.

So I have to ask my brother to beat me over the head with something blunt if I get started. ^_^

[Elora]

It's been said before, and I'm sure that most comments here are meant in jest (or at least I hope for otherwise they would cruel and nasty - worthy of the Uruk-Hai or Curufin).


I'd just like to point out that all of us started out as amateurs. We had our annoying questions and misconceptions, corrected by those patient enough around us to deal with our squeakings and by our own further study of Tolkien's work.

I will go further, and risk crucifiction but I am somewhat of a bold lass, and say that at one point Tolkien himself was an amateur. As the stories he set down took shape, so too did his knowledge of his world. Doubt me? Then take a look at the innumerable tales that were written, re-written, tossed aside, radically altered by the great man and now are offered for our reading pleasure thanks mainly to the hard work of his son, Christopher.

You'll see in those tales the evolution of what us "experts" now consider lore.

If people do not begin as amateurs, then people do not begin at all to experience Tolkien's work. It's self flattery, and intolerant, to seek to promote your own knowledge at the expense of another's desire to learn or discuss. The movies, if nothing else, have introduced this epic tale to people who would otherwise never encounter it.

Yes, some questions can be annoying. I myself am likely to trip any who dares *swoon* in my presence (to get them to the floor and out of my way all the sooner). But have a care, lest you yourself prove foolish in how you respond with them. We all started somewhere, some earlier than others and it would be unwise to forget that in ivory towers of knowledge.

Tolkien's world was big enough for 3 Ages, variant races and peoples to live, live, fight and die.... surely it's big enough to share and surely our minds are big enough to comprehend that each will have their own perspective of what Tolkien's work meant. That individual right of interpretation is inalienable, and belongs to all - be you wise lore master or stark raving idiot (and I place myself in the latter category, in case you wonder).

Have a care, is all I ask.

:)

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

LOR was meant to be a trilogy only I'm afraid not. Actually it was published in three volumes because in the 1950s paper was very expensive in Britain. Even as it was, the first edition cost 21 shillings a volume, which made it a very expensive set indeed. The fact that it sold any copies at all is a testament to the popularity of The Hobbit.

I think that Heren Istarion's point should serve to remind us that Middle-earth is more complicated than it may seem. The Silmarillion looks authoritative until you read The History of Middle-earth, and then it's really up to the individual which of Tolkien's versions they choose to accept. Perhaps it should remind us of something else as well: there is always someone who knows more than you do, and to them you may be an annoying amateur. Don't get me wrong: I like to laugh at ignorance posing as authority as much as anyone, but we shouldn't take it to extremes and poke fun at everyone who doesn't know all the names of Tom Bombadil. It just isn't what the Downs is about.

[Snowdog]

Just throw out enough Silm and UT references (or even *gasp* truly basic LotR book references) and they get confused beyond all get out Yeah. I have to clarify that I refer only to the 'movie-only' amateurs. Anyone who are willing to gain knowledge by reading the LotR are worthy indeed.

on the other note... the whole 'Annoying Expert' thing is worthy of its own thread.

[Lathriel]

Talking about Annoying Ammateurs how about Dummies who need to read LOTR for dummies.

There is a girl who claims she is a Ringwraith incarnate!! She is at my school and my other friend was telling me about her. Of course I almost blew up it is the most ridiculuos thing I ever heard!

There was also another girl who walked up to my gym teacher (who is a drill seargent and an american football coach) and showed him a map of ME and pointed to Mordor and told him it was Mordor, Well everybody knows where Mordor is and you don't go up to a Gym teacher to tell him the obvious!!!

[Sapphire_Flame]

"I hate reading the book-versions of movies. The people they hire to turn the movies into the books never get it right."

http://www.handykult.de/plaudersmilies.de//eek7.gif Now that's just horrible.

I do confess, I am guilty of falling under the "Annoying Experts" catagory (according to just about everyone I know, anyway...)

Abedithon le,

~*~Aranel~*~

[Gil-Galad]

don't be hasty, not everybody should know everthing about lotr, don't expect that everyone in your school knows where mordor is! heck only like 75% the people in my school (500+ peeps) have seen all the movies! don't judge a book by its cover, even though they act like newbs, don't think that people around them aren't

[Lathriel]

It is true I guess not everyone knows where Mordor is but the last person you go to tell where Mordor is is your Gym teacher. :rolleyes:

[Saraphim]

Alright, I have to say this. (Here's a fine example of my being an Annoying Expert)

Why, why, oh, why, would they go and make new books?!?!?

Alright, so we have a book. A fine book. So fine, in fact, that we're going to make it an epic movie.

So now we have a fine movie. Not as good as the book, but fairly good nonetheless.


But WAIT! I've got a wonderful idea! We make books from the movies! We just follow the script that was a corruption of the original (read: real) book, which cut out dozens of characters and plots and scenes.

So now we have a book that was made from a movie that was made from a book.

Will someone explain to me the logic in this?

[mark12_30]

I do confess, I am guilty of falling under the "Annoying Experts" catagory (according to just about everyone I know, anyway...)

I received LotR Trivial Pursuit as a Christmas gift. I didn't (dare) open it until a few weeks ago when a casual friend saw it and said, "Oh, I love that movie! Let's play the game!" Another friend who has read the books (and knows me) agreed with a smile. So we played it.

I tried to just let everyone have fun. After I had won with Frodo, they kept playing and gave me Galadriel to start over with, and I was on the verge of winning then (they were still filling their first gamepeice) when it was time to go.

I tried not to be annoying. (Really, I did, because I wanted them to come back and play again.) But I felt pretty bad all the same.

It drives people crazy when I say "We wants it, precious."

I really haven't found that many annoying amateurs around. Most of the time I'm just happy when somebody speaks of the movie in a positive way. It's tempting to raise a mug and shout, "AN ALLY! WE WILL FORM A LEAGUE OF FRIENDSHIP THAT WILL LAST DOWN THROUGH THE AGES, AND OUR PEOPLE WILL AID ONE ANOTHER AT NEED! HAIL TOLKIENDOM! "

[Sapphire_Flame]

It's tempting to raise a mug and shout, "AN ALLY! WE WILL FORM A LEAGUE OF FRIENDSHIP THAT WILL LAST DOWN THROUGH THE AGES, AND OUR PEOPLE WILL AID ONE ANOTHER AT NEED! HAIL TOLKIENDOM! "

Huzzah! Most lofty, mark!

I'm going to have to get LotR Trivial Pursuit (I can't believe I don't have it yet! *sob*) but it will be tricky to get anyone to play it with me. Everyone knows me too well. ^ ^;;;

Here's something rather sad to contemplate: I finally talked my 28-year-old cousin into reading LotR (he'd read The Hobbit, but not LotR, though he has seen the movies). But--and this is really quite sad--he gave up before he even got to Chapter 5 of Book 1! He's gone to college; he's had to read all those horrible medical textbooks! How can he not handle LotR? So sad...

Abedithon le,

~*~Aranel~*~

[Hama Of The Riddermark]

I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to LotR, but I'm always willing to learn from people who genuinely know more than me...

I've read LotR once thouroughly, the hobbit twice, I've started the Silm and I have a book of maps of Middle Earth...I think I also have a book of illustrations from various Tolkein books, but that doesnt really count...

There is this one guy at my school who is really annoying...he thinks he knows everything about everything, not just LotR...He once told me that he liked how Tolkein portrayed Sauron as the dark master of Isengard..."Uh...No, Chris...that would either be Saruman, or Mordor...", to which he replied, "What do you mean, Sauron's the master of Isengard"..."Uh, no. Saruman is the master of Isengard, Sauron is the lord of Mordor.", he then shot back, before walking off in a huff "You know I meant Saruman, stop being so bloody pedantic."...

This is one of many occasions i've wanted to smack him in the jaw with a lead pipe...

[Enorëiel]

I hate people who think they know all there is to know! Drives me nuts! I think I'm the only one among my friends who has read the books - some have tried but have never gotten that far. I wish they would but am kinda glad they haven't...it's fun to trick them :D.

One positive thing to this, before the thrid movie came out, i tricked like 5 girls that Legolas dies!

Ha! I saw it at a midnight showing and they handed out buttons that said 'If you haven't read the books know this one thing, the elf dies.' I wore it to school the next day and (since hardly anyone had seen the movie yet ( :rolleyes: it'd only been out for 7 hours)) I had TONS of people fooled. "He dies!!! But he can't die! He's the main character! Isn't he supposed to become the king?" :rolleyes: Yeah, it was fun but highly annoying

[Mad Baggins]

Ugh.

I was watching Return of the King with my mom and she was arguing with me for a full fifteen minutes that "Merry and Pippin go with Frodo on the ship! They do! Don't argue with me, I know they do!"

I said, "Mom...I've read the books. They don't go on the ship."

"Yes they do!"

So we had to make a bet of $20. Needless to say, I won.

[Theron Bugtussle]

When I was growing up, I had a Monopoly game. I played it with my family (parents and one brother, younger by two years). I always won. By the time I was in High School, they would not play with me. They absolutely despised the game.

After a while, I couldn't hustle a game from anyone...at all.

So leave it to my own children to get old enough to kick my butt at my own best game.... :( Well, they should be smart, they are my kids, after all!

[VanimaEdhel]

But you know, at the same time, you have to give them a bit of room. I mean some of them are actually pretty young - if not physically, emotionally - and they're still at a stage where reading "The Lord of the Rings" may be a daunting task. People mature at different ages and some people can't help it if they have short to no attention span. My old best friend (we don't speak anymore, but not for this reason) couldn't even get through the first half of The Lord of the Rings: the Fellowship of the Ring.

When I first came on here about two and a half years ago through...well, through until recently, really, I was also one of those people that practically got morally offended if someone saw the movies without reading the books, not to mention came into the Chat and started speaking Grelvish. But you know, recently I've decided that I really shouldn't get upset with them. It may take them time to read it. It may not even really be a maturity issue, they may just be happy with their own knowledge. As much as I hate the fact that this is true, as I like trying to learn as much as I can about everything, ignorance is really bliss for some people. And it's really no reason to waste time getting upset if they get a bit of trivia wrong.

So yes, the people who come up to you and say "Tom Bombadil isn't a Lord of the Rings character" are annoying, but is it really worth getting upset about it? I have a friend that actually thinks that it's a serious moral flaw if someone sees the movies without the books, but I don't agree. We can each appreciate things in our own way. Even their not appreciating Tolkien as we think he should be appreciated, at least they're keeping the memory of Tolkien alive, right?

[Sapphire_Flame]

I think I'm the only one among my friends who has read the books

AHEM!!! *points emphatically at self* Hello! Do I not count anymore? You're so mean, Enny. *pouts* (J/K. ;))

"Mom...I've read the books. They don't go on the ship."

"Yes they do!"

So we had to make a bet of $20.

Whew! Easy 20! That's lofty, Mad Baggins! ^ ^ Sadly, my parents know too much about LotR (and they know better than to bet with me about it) for me to get away with that. I always catch them on Silm and UT stuff though.

Okay, A.A.'s who have only seen the movies are bad. But what about those who have only seen ONE of the movies? Say, their friends dragged them to RotK, but they haven't seen the others, and they still assume they are all-knowing about Middle-earth. Anyone here had to deal with newbies such as this?

Abedithon le,

~*~Aranel~*~

[VanimaEdhel]

As I said before, you have to give them time. It's not really something to get personally offended over. There are a lot more serious things you should probably have your mind on - perhaps not even Tolkien-related. I mean yes, having someone claim to know more than you about Middle-Earth when they know about as much as an earthworm does is annoying, but it's really easy to either just ignore them or kindly correct their knowledge with proof. I typically do the latter, pointing to textual support for whatever comment I have made that they refute based on one bit in the movie. It's impossible to contradict that. And if you do find their lack of knowledge as annoying as you seem to, just don't talk Tolkien with them.

And also, if a person's only seen one of the movies, they obviously didn't care for it, or they probably would have seen the others. Usually their comments will probably be derogatory anyway, even if you tied them down and forced them to actually read the books. Not everyone (even if they understand it) likes Tolkien. There are perfectly intelligent individuals - certainly more intelligent than I am - that will admit that Tolkien's style just isn't their cup of tea, so to speak. Whenever someone doesn't like something, it's much easier to find fault in it. Even if it is a good piece of literature (and regardless of content, the movies were well-made), if one doesn't like it, it's difficult to compliment it, even if the good points are staring you right in the face and calling your name.

[Duncariel]

"Mom...I've read the books. They don't go on the ship."

Ugh. No, Merry and Pippin don't get on the ship, BUT NEITHER DOES CELEBORN! Can nobody see this! Gaaaahhhh!!!!

Ahhh, the depth and depravity that fills the minds of the, erm..... Well, there isn't really a word in the world that would let me describe how I feel about these people. Not one that I can use, anyway. When TTT came out (I skipped school the day after to see it, naughty me), one of my friends and I went to see it with someone who had never read the books. I spent the whole movie telling her that "No, Frodo doesn't die. If he did, they wouldn't have another movie, then they wouldn't make anymore money off of people like us, would they?" And half of the other people in the theatre were so busy being dumb that I missed half of it listening to them make out and stuff. Frustration, indeed.

Then, during our long wait for RotK the third day after it came out, my other friend and I (my, but I have a lot of weird friends) spent the whole time running up and down the line asking people if they'd read the books or not. As it was, only about four answered with a positive "yes". The rest were hopeless....

[Gil-Galad]

well for drama, we were doing greek tragedy's, and my partners wanted to do return of the king....well only the pathes of the dead part

(i was undead king and Elrond)

it go as well as i have planned it, ony i and another one showed effort into it

(one didn't show up till we were finished and other one was too stoned too do anything but just read teh script really bad)

[Carnemirie]

I have to agree. People just want to make themselves look good, and not just when you're talking about LOTR. I know a girl who is constantly talking about LOTR but she's never read the books. My friend and I were talking about Legolas and Haldir and she just butted in and stated that Legolas couldn't have talked to Haldir because they were different races. They're both Sindarin right? If she had read the books she would have known that Haldir recognized Legolas's tounge. It's in the chapter titled "Lothlorien"!

[Iaurhirwen]

I'm at a summer program for 5 weeks this summer and have already professed my love of LOTR. I'm simply waiting to see if any A-As show up and what will happen. Of course I'll be kind to them when i see them and graciously correct them if need be - - - - and then i'll come on here and rant.

[Araréiel]

If you can't find a book and it's still published, go to Barnes & Noble and they will order it you you free of charge and you still don't even have to buy it when it arrives if you want a different edition (like if you wanted one not paperback or something).

I'm one of those people who has been into Toklien a relatively short period of time. The day the first DVD came out to be exact. I preordred it, picked it up, and watched it, not expecting much. But I was swept away and wondered how I went to song without it. And I though that Gandalf was dead and it upset me at the time. Ah, ignorance. Now people who know me will tell you it's part of who I am. So much that I feel wrong in myself if I don't have something on me that I'm wearing, be it the Evenstar, Nenya, the Ring itself.... And I'm antsy without a book, or at least the books on DVD if I'm driving, as I did today to go rescue my boyfriend when his car brokw down south of San Francisco.

Still, there are Newbies and then there are Dummies. The Newbies are the ones who are new and trying. They don't know a whole lot in any sense and they know that and are find learning. The Dummies are the ones who like to think they know it all, yet think Elves lived in the Shire. No, the insist Elves live in the Shire because Hobbits live in Mordor. And you can show them proof and they insist that the book is wrong. One of my idiot cousins actually did that-insisted the book was wrong and that Elves do, in fact, live in the Shire. *sigh* And she claims to be an expert. And, sadder still, she knows more about the books than any of her friends. When asked who wrote them, she guessed wrong. Then one of my aunts and her brother came to her defense saying that she read the books before me (sadly true, but she obviously didn't retain any information) and, therefore, knows more than I do. Uh-huh, right. Whatever. Who's Shelob? Who's Tom Bombadil? Apparently I made them up, according to them. Yet they claim the idiot is right and that I must have paid to have an altered copy made. Yeah. The one I was using is quarter-bound in leather and expensive as it was, and there's no way I could afford, or want to, have a wrong copy.

When I went to the midnight opening of RotK, a girl came dressed in a starlingly beautiful replica of Eowyn's green gown. Someone asked her who she was dressed as and she mentioned, "That blonde Elf chick." I broke in and asked if she meant Galadriel since she didn't wear green, though Eowyn wore a gown nearly identical to what she was wearing. And she said no, the Elf that the main guy liked. Um, Arwen wasn't blonde.... I tried telling her that, and she argued with me because she thought she knew all there was to know about LotR (so much she didn't know the names of Arwen or Aragorn). And probably felt dumb when the movie started and she was proven wrong. How much attention did she pay to the movies before it? Or did she only watch Orli? (I'll admit he's hot as hell, but I paid attention to more than just him!)

Yeah, Dummies who don't now character names, even main ones, and who don't know their butts from their elbows and try to act like know-it-alls are just downright irritating.

[Araréiel]

Vanima, I agree that people who've just seen the movies are fine. I started out seeing just one movie, and didn't even know who Frodo was when I did. But those people who've only seen the movies and claim to be experts on all things Tolkien are another story....

I'm a bit of a newbie when it comes to LotR, but I'm always willing to learn from people who genuinely know more than me...

I've read LotR once thouroughly, the hobbit twice, I've started the Silm and I have a book of maps of Middle Earth...I think I also have a book of illustrations from various Tolkein books, but that doesnt really count...

This is me! When I read LotR I cross reference everything. And I love to learn more from peope. Like the book calls Frodo Biblo's cousin, Bilbo called him his nephew. According to the family tree, Frodo is Biblo's second cousin twice removed (Biblo's father, Bungo is the cousin of Frodo's grandfather, Fosco). Biblo is Frodo's third cousin once removed (same thing). Funny how they are related the same way, but called different relations, but it's because the cousin-line starts with Biblo's father, but Frodo's greatgrandfather. Still, is it a type that Frodo was called both Bilbo's cousin AND nephew? Now this is a semi-intelligent newbie question, better that the "Who is that short fat guy again? Gibblet?"

[yavanna II]

It's way more annoying when done by those damn teachers who haven't even read the book. :mad:

[Araréiel]

Oh, that's bad. If a teacher talks about the book and doesn't know what's what, is it any wonder why school kids tend to be so stupid these days? Not to offend the ones here who are among the exceptions! It takes brains to read and understand all the intricacies of Tolkien!

Please tell me you aren't talking about a literature teacher though! That would be inexcusable.

[Enorëiel]

AHEM!!! *points emphatically at self* Hello! Do I not count anymore? You're so mean, Enny. *pouts* (J/K. )

:rolleyes: Sapphy, Sapphy, Sapphy *shakes head* can't you read? I said I THINK hence meaning I didn't think. ;) Honestly, I thought you'd learned that by now... :D


Have you guys ever had problems with little children trying to show you up? Some kids know their stuff but some... I was telling someone who Frodo was and explained that he was the ringbearer. This little 10 year old girl goes 'No, Biblo had the ring.' I asked her if she'd read the books or seen the movie and she said no. Needless to say after that... I wasn't too worried. But come on! What are we teaching children nowadays?

[Araréiel]

I do have to defend a 10-year-old here. LotR is so involved it is above many 10-year-olds. Not all, but most. The Hobbit is much more in line with with what a child that age could easily read. So she was right as well in a way. While Frodo was the ring BEARER, Biblo did have the ring-for a while anyway. I believe in cutting slack on kids with this.

[VanimaEdhel]

I do have to defend a 10-year-old here. LotR is so involved it is above many 10-year-olds. Not all, but most. The Hobbit is much more in line with with what a child that age could easily read. So she was right as well in a way. While Frodo was the ring BEARER, Biblo did have the ring-for a while anyway. I believe in cutting slack on kids with this.

Well, you know I first read The Lord of the Rings when I was nine, so I think that if you are going to get upset at thirteen-year olds, ten-year olds should not necessarily escape your wrath as well. I read The Hobbit when I was eight and loved the books, so my dad gave me The Lord of the Rings. I did not have any problems understanding the books at that time.

Vanima, I agree that people who've just seen the movies are fine. I started out seeing just one movie, and didn't even know who Frodo was when I did. But those people who've only seen the movies and claim to be experts on all things Tolkien are another story....

But then it goes back to the maturity issue. Usually people who claim to be experts are either rather immature or have littler self-worth. When it comes to the maturity thing, they just are not in a phase in their life when they can understand what they are reading. It can happen to eight-year olds and it can happen to fourteen-year olds. Often they feel as though this makes them inferior, so they claim to know a lot about a subject they do not. They think that by seeming to know everything about something like Tolkien's world, they will seem to be more mature than they actually are. The vast majority of the people that feel that way now will grow out of it by the time they grow up. Even if they are about fifteen now, when they are twenty-five, they may finally grow up. Everyone becomes able to understand different things at different times. I usually just prefer ignoring the people, or correcting them gently at the very least. If they don't believe me because they genuinely think they know what they are talking about, oh well. I'm not going to lose sleep over someone else's ignorance.

[yavanna II]

Oh, that's bad. If a teacher talks about the book and doesn't know what's what, is it any wonder why school kids tend to be so stupid these days? Not to offend the ones here who are among the exceptions! It takes brains to read and understand all the intricacies of Tolkien!

Please tell me you aren't talking about a literature teacher though! That would be inexcusable.

Hey. IT HAS BEEN MY LITERATURE TEACHER who doesn't read the book, and the one who has the guts to tell me that I JUST DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THE MOVIE! It's an outrage!

but my Trigonometry teacher understands me... he is an LOTR geek... he's gay, and loves legolas[ew ew ew ew] :eek:

[Sapphire_Flame]

Usually people who claim to be experts are either rather immature or have little self-worth. When it comes to the maturity thing, they just are not in a phase in their life when they can understand what they are reading. It can happen to eight-year olds and it can happen to fourteen-year olds. Often they feel as though this makes them inferior, so they claim to know a lot about a subject they do not. They think that by seeming to know everything about something like Tolkien's world, they will seem to be more mature than they actually are.

A very valid point. One that I fully support, because when I tried to read LotR when I was eight I failed miserably (I think I got to Shortcut To Mushrooms... o.O). I was fifteen before I finally got around to reading LotR all the way through; possibly, I could have done it before then, but I was in the midst of a HP obsession. But I do understand how some people can't understand certain things at different points in their life. And some people never understand things as long as they live. I, for example, know for a fact that I will never understand any math beyond beginning algebra. I don't really care that I won't. But, fortunately, I am secure enough with myself and my intellectual level that it doesn't bother me, and I don't try to sound like a trig expert when I'm not. I merely revel in the fact that I can catch typos that others can't. *e-vile grin* ;) j/k

Abedithon le,

~*~Aranel~*~

[Encaitare]

Ugh. No, Merry and Pippin don't get on the ship, BUT NEITHER DOES CELEBORN! Can nobody see this! Gaaaahhhh!!!!

Yup, and Cirdan didn't have a beard in the movie, either. I was *looking* for a beard, and was disappointed, because Cirdan is one of the coolest characters ever. But I suppose people would have been all, "Wha? How come he has a beard and none of the other elf-people do?" and "Wait... if Galadriel and Seleborn are married then where's he? Why isn't he going with her?" The only thing worse than people saying "Celeborn" like there's an S instead of a C is when people say "Izzle-door." *pukes*

But the worst annoying amateur was a Mary-Sue writer on ff.net. She was terrible. She kept saying that she had read the books "like 100 timez" and memorized all of Legolas' lines so she should be entitled to write a fanfiction. She misspelled the name of every canon character (except Sam), and her MS's name was Jyessicah. This is still a running joke among my friends. Just say it... Jyesssssicaaaahhhh.... Someone emailed her a bunch of questions to test and see if she really did read the book, and here's the Q&A:

Hey, this is Lady Lanet, who just read your review. I thank you for
reviewing and telling this girl that her story is awful. Actually, I
sent her some questions about the book. Boy did she screw up!!!!

Here are the questions:


Hey, this is Lady Lanet, the girl who reviewed your story today, and
I'd like to say, TAKE IT OFF!!!!!

This is a disgrace to Tolkien. The poor man put his heart and soul into
the books and now your butchering it!!!! Hey, and you've read the
books, right (Sure.) Lemme ask you some questions.

Before Frodo, Sam, Merry, and Pippin reach Bree and The Inn of the
Prancing Pony, who do they meet? *Not Farmer maggot.*

Who saves Frodo at the river, and is NOT Arwen (Proper spelling.)

Who solves the Moria Puzzle at the door?

How does the Fellowship meet Galadriel? (The really pretty Elf lady in
the white robes. She has the mirror.)

Who goes with Frodo to the Mirror of Galadriel?

In which book does Boromir die? Fellowship or Two Towers?

Thank you. Please email me back
as soon as possible. I'm just trying to help!


And here are the answers:

I have read the books! Lemme answer these ?s....their really easy!!!
Youll see how good @ lotr cannon I am.................

ok.....


They meet Marry and Pippin! In the field.

Nice try!!! But Arwen DID save Frodo!!! She sent the water-horses @ the
Ringraiths!

Jyessicah will solve teh Moria Puzzle!!!!! lol

She sends peeps (Haldeer!) to fing them and talks too Frodo in his
head!!!

Duh! Frodo goes with no one but Galadreil!

Boramir dies at the end of fotr!!!! (i cryed did u? even tho he was BAD)

See! I've read teh books!

And here are my answers:

Hey! You answered every thing MOVIE VERSE!!! HE-LOH!!! Okay, lemme give
you the answers to the questions from the book.

Frodo, Merry, and Sam meet Gildor, an elf of Rivendell (But he also
might be of Loien origin). You can look this up on page 88 of
Fellowship. Then they meet Merry in Farmer Maggots field. Then the four
of them meet Tom Bombadil, and Goldberry, daughter of the river.

Umm.... Jyessicah.... nice try, but an ELF MAN saved Frodo. His name is
Glorfindel, advisor of Elrond. And to keep the weight down, he sent
Frodo ALONE to Rivendell. At the Fords of Buerian (SP), Frodo's horse
is terrified and won't run anymore to escape the Ringwraiths. Elrond
and Gandalf summon the water and water horses. You can find this
information on pages 236-242 of Fellowship.

Gandalf himself solves the Moria Door puzzle, not Frodo, not Jyessicah,
but GANDALF!!! Merry helps a little too.....

Yes, you answered half way right. But only half. Haldir (Correct
spelling.) and his brothers, Rumil and Orophin are border guards.
Making sure that no orc nor uruk gets through to their home and the
Lady of the Wood. At that time, only Aragorn and Legolas know who the
Lady really is (Gimli has a big mistrust of elves, so he does not know
the fair ladies name.). Haldir and company lead them into Caras
Galadhon, where they meet Lord Celeborn of Doraith (If you've read the
Silmarillion *Curse my horrible spelling!* you know what that is.) and
Lady Galadriel. You can find this information on pages 384-399.

Sam goes with Frodo to the Mirror. Sam looked in first, then Frodo.
Afterwards (And Galadriel yelling 'DON'T TOUCH THE WATER!!' ),
Galadriel shows them her own ring, Nenya, the ring of water. You can
find this on pages 400-411.

Boromir dies at the end of Fellowship of the Ring ThE MOVIE!!! he dies
in the beginning of Two Towers. That is followed by the longest chapter
in Tolkien history, THE RIDERS OF ROHAN!!! And Boromir wasn't bad. He
just in believed in his country, like most Gondorians do. The only
reason that he tried to take the ring was that he wanted to SAVE IT
FROM DESTRUCTION!!! Hey, Aragorn almost took the ring, just like
Boromir. Boromir wasn't bad at all! he cared deeply for his little
brother Faramir, even tried to protect his from his father. I must say,
why do you think Boromir was bad?

Thank you.

Lady Lanet,

Lore Master of Middle Earth,
Advisor of Elrond,
Keeper of Agelos, Narsil, and Hadhafang.

But thank you again. Reply if you wish

Oh, how delightful. And *that* my friends is the most annoying amateur I have ever had the pleasure of flaming. And I never ever flame; I think it's mean. But this I made an exception for because she was so ignorant, and refused to believe that maybe the people reviewing and trying to correct her nicely were right. Blugh.

[Morsul the Dark]

I can gladly say I knew most of those answers I did however forget that they met the elves but merry wasn't there so that threw me off and I always forget glorfindels name despite a rather decent chunk of lotr I am definetely an amateur especially compared to most people on thhis site and I am willing to admit it

I hope i may now having admitted my problem go from annoying amateur to irritating amateur and eventually annoying expert

[Gil-Galad]

funny how this thread sparked two other threads...

[Isowen]

I totally agree, I know quite a bit about lotr and nobody I know really likes it as much as I do. If I talk about lotr and somebody gets something wrong, I tend to scream at them at the top of my voice. Also, none of my friends have even heard of Old man willow or Bill Ferny! some dont even know what Gollum's name was once! I just have to say that even though i dont have many posts (because im a newbie :) ) I am apalled at the lack of Tolkien knowledge where I live and what's worse is that some of them pretend they know everything and really, they don't. Somebody once asked me "since when was Iluvatar in lotr?"

[Encaitare]

What was extremely interesting, though, is that LotR fans pop up in odd places: ie, my Music Theory teacher/Marching band conductor, Mr. Giannotti, or fondly, simply G. The band was playing at the graduation ceremony this past June and they were reading an uber-long list of names and we were all insanely bored, G included. Suddenly they read out this one kid's name, and his last name sounded like Smeagol! Suddenly our (meaning me, three of my friends, and G) ears all perked up and G went, "What? Smeagol?" It was exciting... okay, not really. I guess you had to be there ;)

[Sapphire_Flame]

Encaitare, where in the name of high school football did you find that Sue writer?! I feel so pointedly annoyed all of a sudden. *gr*

Happily, I knew the answers to the questions you presented, although I almost spaced on Gildor (the fact that you said Frodo, Sam, Pippin, *and* Merry may have thrown me off...). I can't believe how badly she did! She must have read the books with her eyes closed... :rolleyes:

I may have to borrow that list as my "Offical Amateur Test", just to see if people have actually read the books, or have even the slightest clue as to what they're talking about.

Oh, before they got to Bree, the hobbits also ran into the Barrow-wights. ^ ^ :D

Abedithon le,

~ Saphy ~

[Encaitare]

Please do use it as an Official Amateur Test, and thus we may determine within moments who knows "lotr cannon" and who doesn't. I found her while browsing fanfiction.net, and was immediately so enraged by her lack of skill at anything that I felt compelled to send it to all my friends to bash. A lot of people reported her because of her blatant errors and general lousiness and the admins took it down and I believe suspended her account as well ::cackles with no remorse whatsoever::

I'm sure there are more bad bad bad writers like her but I haven't checked out ff.net recently.

And they most certainly did meet the Barrow-wight, although if the creator of the list had presented the fool writer (whose name was, incidentally, iloveleggy -- gee, what does that tell you?) with FOUR non-movie characters (Tom, Golderry, Gildor, and the Wight), I think her brain would have exploded from all the canon.

[Morsul the Dark]

First off I feel utterly stupid I must have forgotten the entire book between Farmer Maggot and Bree because somehow I placed those events after (Uh-Duh) "smacs self" don't worry such idiocy i try to keep at a minimum I do however have a question what is canon? is it just another word for trivia?

[Encaitare]

Canon is a term used among fanfiction writers which basically means what really happened in the original story. A fanfiction which follows the original plot line without making big changes is canon; one that deviates from the original is non-canon, or Alternate Universe.

[Morsul the Dark]

I see thank you very much for that explanation.

I sadly prefer non-canon for bad guys

but for good guys i have good canon :D

[Encaitare]

Non-canon has its place too... it's what keeps the fanfiction world interesting!

[Estel'sAngel]

I know earlier that someone mentioned the Trival Pursuit game. I'm trying so hard to get that game. My friends and mother have agreed to play with me if I ever get it. Key word being...IF. I have yet to see it giftwrapped on my birthday or Christmas. :rolleyes:

But yeah...my mom knows enough about LOTR to know not bet with me. All my friends do the same. They treat me like an expert, while I'm running around looking up answers to their questions on boards like these! SHH!!! :D But I do tell them where I get the info from. I won't even pretend to be an expert on LOTR. There's too much to know about it and my poor little human mind can't contain all that glorious information. Not with school going on.

My sister (older by 17 months) would be at the level of seeing on movie and NOT liking it. She didn't hate it, she just didn't understand what was going on. So Mom and I had to explain it to her. Then she seemed to get frustrated that I knew more than she did about LOTR. So I pointed out what she did better than me and that made her feel better. But after that, Mom and I didn't drag her to see any more LOTR movies. It was always just us, then family, then I saw it with friends.

So for sure there are different levels of understanding out there for people about the books and movies. My friends are "experts" on the movie (somehow they count me in there as well.) They view me and my mom as the "book experts". And then they figure everybody else knows a little bit. They've tried to read the books but didn't like it or just didn't finish, while I've been reading them once a year since the 6th grade (sophomore in college now for a time frame). So it does vary for each person. If it didn't, then this would be a very boring world with no room for discussions and debates about Tolkien's world, cause we'd all understand it. And that would be boring, indeed.

[Sapphire_Flame]

So it does vary for each person. If it didn't, then this would be a very boring world with no room for discussions and debates about Tolkien's world, cause we'd all understand it. And that would be boring, indeed.

*nod nod* I shall definitely agree with that. Very well said, Angel.

Abedithon le,

~ Saphy ~