Two statements game

[Fingolfin II]

Basically the rules are that you say two statements and ask a question about them and the answer/s must be of people who are fairly closely related by blood or marriage.

That means no second- or third-cousins, etc. Great-great-great-great-grandfathers/uncles/aunts are acceptable, but try and keep them fairly closely related. Also, half-grand uncles etc. are acceptable because of Feanor, Fingolfin and Finarfin being related in this way.

Anyway, here goes:

1) He could see all, yet oft truth was from him hid.

AND

2) He is the bane of the Two Fathers.

Who are these people and how are they related?

[Kath]

This is very difficult and I'm a little confused.
Is it that the two answers have to be related through family ties or by association.
Apologies if this seems obvious!

[Fingolfin II]

Yeah, it is a bit confusing lol. Kath, you're right about familial ties or by association. So any guesses?

[rutslegolas]

denethor and ?

i dont know the other one

[Gil-Galad]

Denethor and the Balrog of Khazad-Dum

[Fingolfin II]

Nope, not Denethor and the Balrog of Khazad-dum, though they are correct I suppose in their own right. However, they aren't related. So here's a hint: they are father and son. The second one is *slightly* disputed, but it's still clear.

[The Perky Ent]

Denethor and Boromir?

[Fingolfin II]

Nope- think First Age characters.

[Kath]

Thanks for the explanation.
I will now reshow my stupidity in this guess.
Illuvatar and Morgoth

[Gil-Galad]

i think its Turgon and one of the sons

[Miriel]

Hurin and Turin?

[Fingolfin II]

Congrats, Miriel it is Hurin and Turin! Statement 1 is referring to Hurin being tortured by Morgoth in Angband and seeing all that's happening to his kin, except he doesn't see any of the good stuff that is happening, thus the truth is hidden from him.

Statement 2 is referring to Turin, the bane of the Two Fathers: He is the bane of Glaurung, the Father of Dragons, and Melkor, the Father of Evil. Next time plz justify your answer, but well done. Your shot.

[Gil-Galad]

May i ask how Turin is the bane of Melkor? they have never even met, let alone Melkor talking about him (nothing in book)

[Fingolfin II]

As I said, it is kind of disputed, but Mandos made a Prophecy about the Last Battle when Morgoth comes back through the Door of Night and is slain by Turin. It's in the Book of Lost Tales and The Shaping of Middle-Earth. Also, theres a reference to Dagor Dragorath in UT and are several references to the Last Battle in the Silmarillion.

[Fingolfin II]

Miriel- your turn.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I know...I'll shout.

Miriel!

[Miriel]

*jerks into wakefulness* Hrmmphh?

Oh yeah, sorry, forgot. *Sigh* ... it's fun to work it out but not so good trying to make one up...

Well, I'm awful at this sort of stuff, so be merciful. ;)


Disfigurement within a fair outside was never preferred.

In last two years sees withdrawal of good follow rise of evil.

[The Perky Ent]

Eowyn and Theoden?

[Miriel]

Nope.

[The Perky Ent]

ARWEN AND ELROND?

[Miriel]

No.

And you'd probably be best to explain the answer, as I'll ask you to do so if you get it right. ;)

[Fingolfin II]

Hints?

[Miriel]

Okay ...

'Disfigurement within a fair outside' is cryptic. All the rest is straight clues. And you're looking for one Third Ager, and one Third/Fourth Ager. And they're not Elves.

That'll do for now. ;)

[Kath]

Is the first one Saruman?
Reason being he seems good but is in fact evil.

[Arvedui III]

Herm...dunno...are they Faramir and Denethor?

Denethor saw the rise of evil in his last two years and Faramir was fair on the inside and outside.

[Miriel]

Oooh ... very close, Arvedui. The first one is indeed Faramir. ('mar', which can be a noun meaning disfigurement or blemish, within the letters fa ir - a 'fair outside', and the 'never preferred' referring to his father's preference of Boromir.) :D
Denethor isn't the other one, though. And, hint: 'last two years' doesn't necessarily refer to the last two years of the person's life. Think what 'withdrawal of good' might refer to.

[Gil-Galad]

Faramir and Boromir?

[Miriel]

Nope.

[Silmarien]

Faramir And Eowyn. She's had two years of tending her king in growing fear under Grima.

[Miriel]

No. More hints?

[Firefoot]

Faramir and Finduilas?

[Miriel]

No ... okay, big hint ... the person you're looking for was a Steward of Gondor. 'Last two years' refers to the last two years of his rule.

So, now just consider 'withdrawal of good'. And check all the stewards somewhere near Faramir. ;)

[Gil-Galad]

Faramir and Echthelion II?

[Miriel]

No.

Okay, I'm getting bored of this. ;)

The Steward in question saw, in his last two years, Sauron's openly declaring himself in Mordor, and Saruman withdrawing to Isengard.

So who is it, and what's his relationship with Faramir?

Should be easy now. :p

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'm going to throw in a ballpark guess- We've already got Faramir, and I'm assuming the Steward in question is Gandalf (what with his statement to Denathor "did you not know" and all of that). The relationship is one of mutual love, but more as between a teacher and student than that of father and son. If I'm right, please allow someone else with more creativity than me ask the next.

Fea

[Miriel]

No ... not Gandalf ... an actual Steward of Gondor. ;)

Come on guys! I've practically told you it...

[Firefoot]

It's Turgon. He is Faramir's great-grandfather.

[Miriel]

*cheers!!!!*

Correct. :D

[Firefoot]

Thanks Miriel! I love guessing these, but I hate writing them - oh well.

Fell Fire slain in Flame.

and

Cave Hewer dies defending friend.

[Fingolfin II]

Finrod and Maedhros? Finrod was the hewer of caves ('Felagund') and died to save his friend Beren, and Maedhros killed himself by throwing his body into a chasm filled with fire.

[Firefoot]

Oh, I completely forgot about this thread - Finrod is correct but Maedhros isn't.

[Fingolfin II]

OK, in that case would it be Feanor then? I wasn't sure which one I should put in- Maedhros or Feanor- but I chose Maedhros. Anyway my reason for Feanor is that he was known as "The Spirit of Fire" or "Fell Fire" and he was slain in the fire of the Lord of the Balrogs- Gothmog. Is that ok?

[Firefoot]

Not Fëanor either.

[NightKnight]

Aegnor?

[Firefoot]

Yes, it's Aegnor. I guess that makes it NightKnight's turn. :)

[NightKnight]

He conquered great treasure

Died childless in the woods

[Fingolfin II]

Beren and Dorlas?

[NightKnight]

The first one is correct, the second is not.

HINT: They are related.

[Fingolfin II]

Ok, could it be Beren and his grandchildren Elured and Elurin?

[NightKnight]

Correct. :)

[Fingolfin II]

Ok, here's one:

Grandson of the Crotch

I coveted the White Stone with all my heart; I am dead now, with the White Stone laid upon my heart

[NightKnight]

Gimli and Thorin?

[Fingolfin II]

Yep.

[NightKnight]

Dark one fell down

and

Death struck him from beneath

[Fingolfin II]

After puzzling about this for ages I think I came up with the answer:

Ancalagon the Black

and

Glaurung

[NightKnight]

Excellent, your turn. :)

[Fingolfin II]

Evil lust and dark seed wrought destruction.

Valiance led to rashness; rashness led to challenge; challenge led to death

[NightKnight]

Maeglin and Fingolfin?

[Fingolfin II]

Correct again :D.

[NightKnight]

I'm getting good at this. :)

Great man of many names

and

The Golden Head

[Gil-Galad]

Beren, son of Barahir and Glorfindel?

[NightKnight]

Both wrong.

[Fingolfin II]

For the first one, I'm thinking Aragorn, and the second Theoden, but they're not related, so I'll say- Thengel and Theoden?

[NightKnight]

Nope.

[Evisse the Blue]

Turin and Nienor?

[The Saucepan Man]

Turin Turambar and Hador Lorindol?

[NightKnight]

Saucepan has it. :)

[The Saucepan Man]

Cheers, NightKnight. :)

One who cared for horses

One who challenged the Black Riders

[NightKnight]

Eomer and Theoden?

[The Saucepan Man]

Nope.

[Fingolfin II]

Eomer and Eowyn?

[The Saucepan Man]

No, neither is from Rohan.

[NightKnight]

Is the second one Eärnur?

[The Saucepan Man]

No. The use of the term "Black Riders" is intended to relate them to a specific period of time.

[NightKnight]

Either Aragorn or Glorfindel, then?

[The Saucepan Man]

No, I am afraid not. :p ;)

[NightKnight]

Is the first one Bob, then? And the second... Farmer Maggot?

[The Saucepan Man]

Bob is correct, Farmer Maggot is not.

[NightKnight]

I guess Frodo did challenge them on Weathertop, when he attack WK. Is it him?

[The Saucepan Man]

Nope. :p

[NightKnight]

Gandalf then? He did battle them on Weathertop...

[Sirithheruwen]

Uh...Bob and Nob? I've no clue if they are related or not, but I think so... :confused: Nob shouted at a Black Rider...sort of...just a guess...

[The Saucepan Man]

Sirithheruwen has it.

They are related by employment, if nothing else. And you are right. I was thinking of Nob's challenge to the two Black Riders who were bending over a prone Merry. It never really occured to me until I set this question that Nob played such a significant role, preventing as he did Merry's almost certain capture, if not death.

So, the thread is yours Sirithheruwen. :)

[Sirithheruwen]

Much thanks Saucepan! :)
Here's the next one:
Weary with a broken neck.

AND

Fresh in battle with a red axe.

Good luck! :)

[NightKnight]

Nain and Dain Ironfoot?

[Sirithheruwen]

Yeah...and I thought that was somewhat hard! :rolleyes: Oh well...Your go, NightKnight!

[NightKnight]

Not too hard for me. ;)

Killed by dwarves because of their greed

and

Grandfather of he that turned back

[Fingolfin II]

Thingol and Celeborn?

[NightKnight]

Thingol is right, Celeborn isn't.

[Thorongil]

Could the other be Finwe, who was the grandfather of Turgon who turned back from the Nirnaeth?

[NightKnight]

Could have been, but it isn't. :D

[Gil-Galad]

Thingol and....Earendil? hint maybe?

[NightKnight]

Not Eärendil. HINT: The one who turned back was a noldor.

[Gil-Galad]

I'm thinking Turgon... and thingol

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

He that turned back. I'm thinking Finarfin, but he had no grandpapa. :)

Is Eärendil a Noldo? If so, Huor?

[Thorongil]

Or Dior?

[Gil-Galad]

Question: is the other guy pure noldor? or a mix like noldor/sindar or noldor/man or noldor/teleri?

[NightKnight]

*Smacks head into the wall many times* Nil, you're right! Finarfin had no grandfather. I was thinking about his children... Anyway, it shouldn't be too hard now...

[Gil-Galad]

Galadriel!!!

[NightKnight]

Galadriel can't be a grandfather, can she? :rolleyes:

[Gil-Galad]

yah my bad...

[Fingolfin II]

Finrod?

[NightKnight]

No. The person is the grandfather of the children of he that turned back.

[Thorongil]

Then it must be Finwe.

[Gil-Galad]

but Finwe is already said....Fingolfin maybe?


(keep in mind, your suppose to name the person who turned back's grandfather)

[NightKnight]

Both are wrong. And Gil-Galad, you're supposed to name the grandfather to the children of he that turned back. :p

[The Saucepan Man]

Olwe, father of Finarfin's wife, Earwen.

[NightKnight]

Well, since both Fingolfin II and Saucepan Man had one right guess each, one of you should continue. But that's up to you two to decide.

[The Saucepan Man]

Fingolfin can go.

[Fingolfin II]

Cheers Saucy, thanks for that.

Tormented twice; repented thrice; yet I did not endure the Grinding Ice.

Much love did the greatest of them all have for many things, though he loved his father best.

[Thorongil]

Maedhros & Feanor?

[Fingolfin II]

Yes. Maybe I should make it harder next time....

[Thorongil]

These aren't too hard either. The greatest callenge in these games isn't getting the answer right, it's making your own riddles.

A dark thief

Hidden evil in the bliss

[NightKnight]

The thievesss, the filthy little thievesss...

Anyway, Morgoth and Ungoliant?

[Thorongil]

Nope

[NightKnight]

Sauron and Maeglin?

[Thorongil]

Maeglin is correct. Sauron isn't.

[Fingolfin II]

Maeglin and Eol? Eol was a Dark Elf and 'stole' Aredhel, forcing her to wed him.

[Thorongil]

Eol is correct. Since Fingolfin II & NightKnight had one each, whoever is first can continue.

[Fingolfin II]

I'm blank....NightKnight can go.

[NightKnight]

Hmmkay...

His banner lies in his own blood

and

Fell with the tower

[Fingolfin II]

Fingon and Turgon?

[NightKnight]

Yep.

[Fingolfin II]

Deprived of love and recognition.

Singing sadly on the shores.

[NightKnight]

Fingolfin and Maglor?

[Fingolfin II]

Maglor's correct. Fingolfin isn't.

[Thorongil]

Curufin? or Celegorm?

[Fingolfin II]

Nope, you're on the right track though.

[Thorongil]

Orodreth?

[Fingolfin II]

No.

Hint: House of Feanor.

[symestreem]

Could it be Amrod and Amras for the first part?

[Fingolfin II]

Nope.

[NightKnight]

Celebrimbor?

[Fingolfin II]

Yes. You're up NK.

[NightKnight]

Thank you.

Died among the dead

and

The longest reign

[Fingolfin II]

Aldor the Old and Baldor?

[NightKnight]

Other way around, but yes. :p

[Fingolfin II]

Playful fighter challenges small foe.

He killed his countrymen to save the one he loved.

[NightKnight]

Could the second one be Tuor?

[Fingolfin II]

Nope.

[NightKnight]

Gorlim then?

[Fingolfin II]

Not Gorlim either :confused:.

Hint: Think 3rd Age characters.

[Gil-Galad]

Fram and.....(fram is for first one) Smeagol? he killed his cousin for the prescious, which he loved

[Fingolfin II]

Nope.

[Evisse the Blue]

Could the first be Pippin 'challenging' Bergil?
As for the second...Denethor??

[Olorin_TLA]

Bergil and his dad, Beregond! :D

[Fingolfin II]

Olorin_TLA has it!

[Fingolfin II]

Olorin?

[Olorin_TLA]

Well after clarifying that relatives don'thave to be blood relatives with Fingolfin here, I challenge ye all!

He was an evil lord

He was a master of his "craft", following in his predecesor's..."career"

Mwahahahahaha!!! :D

[Gil-Galad]

Morgoth and Sauron?

[NightKnight]

Or Sauron and Saruman.

[Olorin_TLA]

Nope. :D

I am being evilly devious with my 2 statements, btw. :D

[Fingolfin II]

Could the second one be Radagast?

[Fingolfin II]

Just to clarify the rules, the two people must be related, unless they are BOTH Ainur (i.e. Gandalf and Saruman). So now you also a hint to the answer of Olorin's question....

[Elwe Singollo]

The Radient Garlend

Rescued by the twins

[NightKnight]

Galadriel and Celebrian?

[Elwe Singollo]

Yep. Your turn.

[NightKnight]

Found the most valuable treasure

and

First killed by fire

[The Perky Ent]

Random guess. Deagol and Smeagol?

[Fingolfin II]

Is the second one Feanor? First killed by fire- he was the first slain by Gothmog?

[NightKnight]

Wrong fire. ;) And Perky, you're way off. ;)

[Fingolfin II]

Could the second one be Miriel then? It's unlikely, but my reasoning is that she was the first Elf killed in all of Arda and she was "killed" by Feanor (or the Spirit of Fire) in childbirth?

[NightKnight]

Good reasoning, but it's not right. ;)

[The Perky Ent]

Saruman and Gandalf? Saruman found Isengard and the Palantir and Gandalf was killed by the Balrog, which is, of course, fiery!

[NightKnight]

Getting closer now, but you're still wrong.

BTW, congrats on 1000 posts! :)

[Fingolfin II]

Ok, could the second one be Azaghal, who was killed by Glaurung?

As to the second one, I'm not too sure, but....Durin, who founded Khazad-dum?

If not, could we please have some hints?

[NightKnight]

They are dwarves, you've got that right... Think 3rd Age.

[Gil-Galad]

Thorin and Durin!


Thorin - found Arkenstone (rather reclaimed it...)

Durin - first killed by Balrog of Khazad-Dum


If Thorin isn't right then the guy that found Erebor...

[NightKnight]

Durin is right. Thorin is wrong, but it's the guy that found the Arkenstone, Thrain I. You're up.

[Fingolfin II]

Gil-galad?

[Gil-Galad]

seesh...


Repaid with many pairs of four

and

Refused to turn back in embarassment

[Fingolfin II]

Is the second one Dorlas?

[NightKnight]

The first one is Fingolfin (Maedhros gave him a bunch of horses). The second one... Fingolfin again (after the kinslaying)?

[Gil-Galad]

oooh...so close, your right on the second one, you got confused on the first one...

[The Perky Ent]

Hmm...Ungoliant and Fingolfin?

[Fingolfin II]

Oh wait, I think I might have it now- Fingon and Fingolfin?

[Gil-Galad]

You were so close....its in your first anwser actually...

1.?

2. Fingolfin

[Fingolfin II]

Well I don't get that clue....but maybe when you say "Repaid" you mean the giver, not the receiver- therefore I'll say Maedhros for the same reason that NightKnight stated.

[Gil-Galad]

FIngolfin is correct

[Fingolfin II]

Cheers. It was really NightKnight who put me on the right track, but anyway-

More like his father than his mother in at least one respect.

Devoted to the greatest.

[Gil-Galad]

Maeglin and Eonwe?

[Fingolfin II]

Nope. Remember they have to be related, unless they are both Ainur.

[Fingolfin II]

No one? HINT: They are both mortal father and son. And you have to think a bit for the first one.

[NightKnight]

Huor and Tuor?

[Fingolfin II]

Nope. The second character is not known much about, besides his name, which I based the question on.

[Fingolfin II]

Time for another hint- they were both Kings of Numenor.

[Fingolfin II]

That question was going nowhere, so how about an easier one-

Slew the traitor.

A curse unto his kin.

The answers to the other question were Elros and Manwedil by the way.

[NightKnight]

Tuor and Hurin?

[Fingolfin II]

Hurin is correct for one of the statements (I won't tell you which one though :p).

[Fingolfin II]

Well it's been more than 10 days, so I'll set another question if I may. By the way, the answer to the two statements above was Hurin, who slew Mim and Turin, who was called a curse unto his kin by Glaurung and Brandir. Let's see.....ah!

Repented too late.

Last and proudest.

[NightKnight]

Tar-Palantir and Ar-Pharazon?

[Fingolfin II]

Got it in one.

[NightKnight]

Wasn't too hard. ;)

Wounded the dark captain.

Was wounded by the dark captain.

[rutslegolas]

Merry and Frodo??

[NightKnight]

Sure. :)

[Fingolfin II]

Ruts?

[rutslegolas]

He carries the banner of the Kings

The King himself rides beside him .

Its very easy ;)

[Gil-Galad]

Gamling and Theoden? or Gamling and Eomer

[Gil-Galad]

oh i just thought about it, Halbarad and Aragorn

[NightKnight]

Wasn't Theoden's standard bearer called Guthlaf? And then of course Theoden for the second one.

[Gil-Galad]

Wasn't Theoden's standard bearer called Guthlaf? And then of course Theoden for the second one.


maybe... maybe i'm got the movie stuck in my head cause in the movie Gamling is the standard bearer...

[rutslegolas]

Anyways Gil-Galad has it. Its Halbarad and Aragorn .

[Gil-Galad]

hmm...now i gotta think....


A rash Elder of his Race

First time is his Last time

[nobody]

Is the second one Brandir? Not sure about the first one....Amlach?

[Gil-Galad]

Nope try again

[Fingolfin II]

Hmm....could the first one be Turin? If not, could we please have a clue :)?

[Gil-Galad]

a clue huh...well these two "people" only met during battle, i'm not gonna say which side though...

[Fingolfin II]

Well, time to bump up this old thread! By the way, Gil, if you have time (and can still remember!), I'd appreciate it if you could PM me the answer of your question, just for curiosity's sake.

Anyway, have a crack at these two First Age characters-

Husband in a sinful union.

Wife in a sinful union.

[arcticstorm]

Turin Turambar and Nienor Niniel?

[Fingolfin II]

Turin's right.

[Urwen]

Daughter of stone
and
One who sliced the evil lord

[Nerwen]

Idril and Fingolfin?

[Urwen]

No. Evil lord in question was Sauron.

[Nerwen]

Tar-Míriel and Isildur?

[Urwen]

Exactly!