Dwarves - what is Tolkien's attitude?

[Lobelia]

After reading a whole lot of Tolkien - not all of his work, admittedly -I am beginning to wonder what his attitude really was to Dwarves? There's something touching about the description of their initial creation by Aule, but in general, the stories of earlier ages present them as a generally unpleasant bunch - greedy, liable to curse jewels, working with the bad guys. In The Hobbit, they're likable enough, and perhaps more "human" if you'll pardon the term, in that you can understand individual motivations. But Tolkien stresses that, as Dwarves, they are, after all, limited by their negative traits, not something they can help, poor things. He seems amused as he says it. Then we have LOTR, where they are brave - gutsy - and able to love beauty of all kinds, and Gimli is unaffected by gold, the traditional downfall of Dwarves. They fight for the good guys and resist Sauron's messenger.

So, what does he think of them, really? Any opinions? I am fond of this race as Tolkien presents them in LOTR, and I'd like to think he was, too. :)

[Kuruharan]

Then be of good cheer. He thought that they were the most fantabulously super-wonderful race in Arda!!! ;)

Seriously now,

greedy, liable to curse jewels, working with the bad guys.

Unless you are referring to the material in the Lost Tales "The Nauglafring" I can't call to mind any story where the Dwarves willingly worked with "the bad guys." Unless you are referring to Mim, and his betrayal of Turin was not exactly of his own free will (although he certainly hated Beleg).

But Tolkien stresses that, as Dwarves, they are, after all, limited by their negative traits, not something they can help, poor things

So are we all. This was not something unique to Dwarves. The Elves were afflicted by perpetual snootyness (something Tolkien himself points out). Men were Men so what do you expect? Hobbits could be pretty naughty themselves (citation of basically the whole Sackville-Baggins clan [no offense to your namesake]).

The Dwarves, like everything else in the stories evolved over time. They did start out in the earliest conceptions as rather seedy characters, but the version of ancient dignity conveyed in the Lord of the Rings was (more or less) his final conception of them, and that is not particularly negative. I think he liked them okay.

[Olorin_TLA]

Yes, originally they were just dispicable. Then he decided that it wouldn'tbe all Dwarves, just the ones who sacked Doriath who were bad guys. By the time of LotR they had matured (by which I mean not in historical, but fleshed-out-character terms) to be a race with a wide variety of individuals, noble, proud, greedy, and corpulent in them. But certaqinly the good Dwarves, such as Durin'sline whihc produced Gimlik Balin, etc, must have been liked by Tolkien. As for the not so nice ones (and note that even they're not "just bad": they served Sauron in the Second Age, some did, and yet didn't Dwarves from all Houses help Durins' get revenge for the murder of Thror?) , well, Tolkien didn't like not so nice Men or Elves either. :)

[tar-ancalime]

I agree that the Dwarves don't come off well in the Silmarillion. But I think that's to be expected--the story is really mostly about Elves (and a few Men, but mostly Elves). How could the Dwarves look any way but unsavory in a story about their ancient rivals?

It would be fascinating if we could see how the Elves come off in a Dwarf-centered account of the events of the First Age.

[Kuruharan]

The Elves would be justly protrayed as the blood-thirsty maniacs they were. :p ;)

[Legolas]

Not to mentions Elves wrote the account... :cool:

[Kuruharan]

Propaganda!!! T'was all shameless propaganda, I say!!!!:D ;)

[tar-ancalime]

The Elves would be justly protrayed as the blood-thirsty maniacs they were. :p ;)

Spoken like a true Dwarf.

Well, any history will tell you more about the historian than about what actually happened...

[Laitoste]

My own opinion is that dwarves don't come off looking especially bad in The Silmarillion. Yeah, Mim & the dwarves of Nogrod were pretty bad, but for the most part, they are an impressive race. They delved Nargothrond and Menegrost (for elves), fought with the elves, and just basically minded their own business. And with the fall of Doriath, quite a bit of that is due to Thingol's stupidity too, and it comes across quite clearly in the book. And dwarves weren't the rivals of elves until the fall of Doriath, and only the dwarves of Nogrod were involved. The elves look worse than the dwarves, really. Probably because there are more of them, and they had a tendency to make stupid decisions. Especially the sons of Feanor.