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Diamond18
06-27-2004, 04:18 PM
A friend at my writing group found this. (http://tinyurl.com/2lacq) I think it's hilarious but also pretty dead on as far as some Tolkien inspired fantasy (some would say rip-offs) go. I'm going to also paste it here in case that link ever stops working. Enjoy.

How to write a best selling fantasy novel

Every since "The Lord of the Rings", epic fantasy novels have been high on the bestseller list. Every thought of writing one?
WELL HERE'S HOW

Structure

1. Create a main character
Most of the people who read your book will be unconfident males. So make your main character a Loser. Aimless, shy, cowardly, guilty, ill, lazy, rural - any of these will do.

2. Create a Quest
Out of the blue, the Loser must be suddenly told that the fate of the whole world – or some other world - rests in his incompetent hands. To save the world he must perform some task, confront some nameless foe, learn some mysterious skill etc.

3. Create a Motley Bunch of Companions
The Loser/Hero must have a Motley Bunch of Companions drawn from different human species e.g. dwarf, elf, Rotarian etc. Each of these companions will have one particular skill such as sword fighting, lasso twirling etc which will come in handy at a particular part of the story.

4. Create a Wise but Useless Guide
The Guide is wise adviser who knows all about the Quest, but never fully reveals it. He also appears to have immense powers but will not use them when they are most required.
(See Part 7: "Make it Long.")

5. Create the Land
The first thing the Motley Bunch must do is travel some phenomenal distance through an assortment of vastly different terrains and climates. All Fantasy Lands have every conceivable form of climate and landform - mountains, deserts, swamps, glaciers, forests - arranged randomly across the landscape contrary to any known principles of geography or ecology.


Note: All fantasy worlds are roughly square. i.e. the shape of the double page of a paperback.

6. Create the Enemy
Every Fantasy Land has a Dark Enemy, an almost omnipotent ArchVillain who is trying to utterly destroy it. It is not clear how the ArchVillain benefits from this. This Villain always has access to vast armies which require no food, payment or other provisioning and can travel thousands of mile and lay siege to cities without any need for a catering corps. For all this, the Enemy is completely dependant on some insignificant object such as a ring or a piece of rock for his power.

7. Make it long
The important thing about an epic fantasy novel is that the reader must be exhausted at the end of it. They must feel that they have overcome as many obstacles in getting through the book as the heroes have in fulfilling the quest. So the book must be as difficult to read as possible. To do this:

(a) Tell the story in incredible detail. Describe every day of the journey, how far they walked, what they ate, the weather, where they slept, especially days where nothing happens.

(b) Fill every dramatic situation with lengthy introspection. At every moment of crisis the hero must minutely examine his feelings, perceptions, identity, whether he left the gas on etc.

(c) Never take the easy way out of a crisis. For example, if the Wizard Guide holds great power, he will never use it to solve a situation. To illustrate.

WRONG

Groll turned his grisly head and raised the black shaft to strike. ‘Use the Gnarlstone" cried Stephen. "No worries" said Gordian and the venerable wizard raised the orb and muttered the Arnic words "Hastalavista". A bright flash flared and the Troll King slumped into a pile of grey-green mush.

RIGHT

Groll turned his grisly head and raised the black shaft to strike. ‘Use the Gnarlstone" cried Stephen. "No" said the wizard sagely. "If we use the Gnarlstone for harm we will only increase the power of the Enemy." Then the shaft struck and Gimlet the Dwarf fell cloven."

If Wizards and Lords actually used their magical powers they wouldn’t need the Loser/Hero to save them and the book will be over in a hundred pages. So, although wizards can bring trees to life, summon spirits from earth and sky, they have to use guile to defeat the stupidest troll.

At the same time you will need to find ways to:

8. Skip the hard parts
Despite the need to keep the book long, some bits are just too hard to write. A thousand mile journey by foot is long, but easy to write. Battles on the other hand are hard because there’s a lot going on and you probably require some knowledge of military strategy. So if you’re writing a battle scene and it’s just getting too hard, simply have the hero suffer a wound and lapse into unconsciousness: e.g.

"… then suddenly his head exploded and a mist enveloped him and he felt himself falling down into an ethereal tangible blackness. Badcolds’s sword, still swinging through the air, seemed caught, imprisoned in time. The sound of the battle was suddenly a long way away but just as he closed his eyes and the black cloud engulfed him he thought he heard someone crying from the grassy knoll, "The Toasters are coming. The Toasters are coming."

Voila. Next thing our hero wakes on a white alabaster slab in the Healing Room where the Pure Maiden Warrior (see "Characters" below) tells him that the battle is over and, Guess what? They won! Result: you've saved 50 pages of intricate military description.

For other difficult plot points such as Impassable Mountain Ranges see "Caves" below.

9. Lead up to a cataclysmic battle
Although the Enemy’s powers are magical, for some reason he must always try to defeat the good guys with good old fashioned hand to hand combat. No matter how much magic power a wizard, king or queen has, they will always end up charging around a battlefield slashing away with a sword.

10. Kill almost everybody
The Loser/Hero must achieve his goal, gain the power, discover the secret word or whatever only at the last possible moment when all seems lost. To do this it will be necessary to make him fall down and twist his ankle, have an identity crisis, become enchanted etc continually on his way to the goal. Most of the Motley Bunch must die in terrible pain and degradation before the Loser/Hero gets his act together. This is to keep us mad at the Enemy, thought it is basically the Loser/Hero's fault for being so slow and incompetent.

Okay. Now let’s look at some other key points.

Bad Expendables
It will be necessary to create Bad Expendables. These are the orcs, goblins, trolls, dragons, wights or any other creatures that we are happy to kill in their thousands. They are usually black, hairy, sweaty or in some other way unacceptable by middle class Caucasian standards. Often they are deformed, based on the traditional belief that an ugly body reflects an ugly soul. It is our way of doing a service to the sick and disabled by reminding readers that people who are disfigured look that way because they’re evil.

Note that in Fantasy Lands the concept of reform or rehabilitation is unknown. All allies, minions, vassals and instruments of the Enemy must be summarily killed even if they served their master primarily out of fear.

Tough Old Warriors
All fantasy novels must have an elite brotherhood of highly trained, pathologically loyal, hereditary fighters. These are invariably sturdy, sullen and have livid scars, one eye missing, only one arm etc. Contrary to reality, the more injuries they bear, the greater their fighting skills.

Pure Maiden Warriors
Losers are scared of sexuality or dependency in women, so women in fantasy novels are so powerful and pure they make Joan of Arc look like Pamela Anderson. They are strong, noble, loyal, brave, high-bred and usually die in the end – well what else are we going to with them? They’re too scary to marry, and no one in Epic Fantasy Novels ever has sex.

Body Types
Skinny people are wily and intelligent, big strong bear-like people are invariably dumb.

Character Names
To make Character Names, just run some nonsense syllables together until it looks like a foreign language. If they are unpronounceable they will be seem even more authentic. "Y"s, "H"s and apostrophes add an exotic feeling. Words like "Dn’a’brht", "ynhazzmhn", "jbreheh’m" are all acceptable.

It is a good idea to throw in a few names which are just normal English words combined randomly: "Rusk Montana", "Heron Alibi" or "Ermine Dayglo".

Technology
Fantasy Worlds always have inexplicable gaps in their technology. They are ruled by councils of venerable sages who are the guardians of the accumulated learning of thousands of years and yet have never got around to inventing anything that might actually help them against wights, trolls and orcs - such as a .44 Magnum. Many Fantasy Worlds possess fine metal working, word-working and the ability to make crossbows, catapults and elaborate secret trapdoors but have no wheeled transport.

Note: Fantasy Worlds never have working economies. Very few people work, there is little agriculture and it is not clear where food comes from.

Magic

When wizards shoot blasts of magic at each other the Good Wizard's fire is always blue, and Bad Wizard' is always green or red.

Dwellings
There are three sorts of dwellings in fantasy novels – caves, huts and castles.

Caves are the fantasy writer’s best friend. They are the locations for hidden weapons, centres of wisdom, hide-outs of monsters etc. They require very little description and can be joined together to make a labyrinth. As in Hollywood, all caves have flat floors.

Caves are also useful if you find you have written yourself into a corner by creating an insuperable geographic obstacle such as an Impassable Mountain Range etc. This can be simply solved by taking the Motley Bunch of Companions underground. When they emerge from the tunnels- after days of walking in pitch darkness - they find themselves miraculously on the other side of the Impassable Mountains or whatever. The writer has also saved writing fifty pages of detailed description.

Huts are always in remote locations. Anyone who lives in a hut is simple and good.

Castles are always "hewn from the living rock" whatever that means. Rooms in castles are almost completely bare with a minimum of decoration.

The Enemy's Stronghold
The Loser/Hero must eventually penetrate the Enemy's Stronghold. This is never particularly hard to do. Stronghold sentries are never alert and Loser/Heroes can always approach to within 20 feet of the most heavily guarded installation without being detected.

Even the most heavily fortified stronghold always has small unguarded side door where the garbage goes out. Once inside the Enemy's Castle there is only a smattering of people walking casually about. The Loser/Hero will be able to penetrate right into the Enemy's most inner sanctum without being detected.

Note: the Enemy's fatal flaw will always be that he is over-confident.

That's all you need to know

So get writing and start your career as an Epic Fantasy Novelist today!

The Perky Ent
06-27-2004, 04:29 PM
lol That's awesome! So, is this thread just for that, or are we suppost to apply that? Very funny!

Diamond18
06-27-2004, 04:34 PM
Actually, I really didn't think that far ahead.... :D

But I suppose we could expand the list, add some tips....

For instance, they forgot to mention that the Loser/Hero has to have lost his parents to the Evil Villain and/or have no memory of his past.

Sirithheruwen
06-27-2004, 05:25 PM
Whoops! Many of these I recognized, not only in other works, but in my own! :eek: That cannot be good! For example:

Most of the people who read your book will be unconfident males. So make your main character a Loser. Aimless, shy, cowardly, guilty, ill, lazy, rural - any of these will do.

Well, he is male, but that's just because I was inspired by the "Writers/Genders" discussion thread. He can't talk. He's not a mute, he just never learned. One day, when my book is published, you'll understand, but until then you'll just have to sit tight. ;)

The Loser/Hero must have a Motley Bunch of Companions drawn from different human species e.g. dwarf, elf, Rotarian etc. Each of these companions will have one particular skill such as sword fighting, lasso twirling etc which will come in handy at a particular part of the story.

Heh heh...oops! Actually, just today I killed off two of my "Motley Companions" because they weren't an asset to the story.

The first thing the Motley Bunch must do is travel some phenomenal distance through an assortment of vastly different terrains and climates. All Fantasy Lands have every conceivable form of climate and landform - mountains, deserts, swamps, glaciers, forests - arranged randomly across the landscape contrary to any known principles of geography or ecology.

NOt quite there yet, but was thinking about it...needless to say, not anymore.

Every Fantasy Land has a Dark Enemy, an almost omnipotent ArchVillain who is trying to utterly destroy it. It is not clear how the ArchVillain benefits from this. This Villain always has access to vast armies which require no food, payment or other provisioning and can travel thousands of mile and lay siege to cities without any need for a catering corps. For all this, the Enemy is completely dependant on some insignificant object such as a ring or a piece of rock for his power.

How *does* my villian benefit from this? So far, no one knows what it is, except that it is known only as "the Enemy." It seems I've got a bit of re-working to do!

(a) Tell the story in incredible detail. Describe every day of the journey, how far they walked, what they ate, the weather, where they slept, especially days where nothing happens.

Actually, I do do this, but for a reason. As soon as I'm finished, I cut out the unnecessary bits so that, if something comes up later, I can most likely find a loop-hole that I didn't know existed. Hey, it works for me!

To make Character Names, just run some nonsense syllables together until it looks like a foreign language. If they are unpronounceable they will be seem even more authentic. "Y"s, "H"s and apostrophes add an exotic feeling. Words like "Dn’a’brht", "ynhazzmhn", "jbreheh’m" are all acceptable.

This just made me laugh! My names usually consist of one syllable, simple names.

The Loser/Hero must eventually penetrate the Enemy's Stronghold. This is never particularly hard to do. Stronghold sentries are never alert and Loser/Heroes can always approach to within 20 feet of the most heavily guarded installation without being detected.

*sighs* I have a long way to go.

Eomer of the Rohirrim
06-28-2004, 07:07 AM
Very funny Diamond. I am now confused because my story breaks a lot of these rules. Is that a good or a bad thing? :confused:

Elianna
06-28-2004, 07:46 AM
I have another rule:
The Evil Villian will often be related to the Loser/Hero, or else be an unfathomable evil who has no relations at all.

Saraphim
06-28-2004, 03:14 PM
Ha! I love reading books like this. Here's how you can tell if the book in your hand follows the plot mentioned above.

~It has a picture of the Motley Bunch on the front, the women wearing a ridiculous amount of clothing and the young men (or elves) looking more ripped than justifyingly possible.

~Its got a title that either explains the Quest, or some random, foreboding words thrown together: "Night of Shadows" , "Death's Bane" , "Gems of the (Insert Fictional Country Name Here)"

~The synopsis on the back ends with a question, like "Will Falya defeat the Dark King of Girlock and save her people?"

~One of the critics has stated that the book is "...In the true spirit of Tolkien!"

elronds_daughter
06-28-2004, 06:15 PM
Ha! that's great. maybe i should write something following all the rules, and see how it turnes out... nah. it'd take waaaay too long. i'm don't have that much paticence.

Audreidi
06-28-2004, 07:25 PM
Yes, well, perhaps one could put a certain spin to it, and pass it off as a comedy of sorts. I might give it a shot this summer if I've nothing else to do. Wonderful list, Diamond18. Very funny...and pathetically true, in some cases of "original fiction" I've seen...

Duncariel
06-28-2004, 08:47 PM
~It has a picture of the Motley Bunch on the front, the women wearing a ridiculous amount of clothing and the young men (or elves) looking more ripped than justifyingly possible.

Oh, wow. That is about as true about Fantasy novels (the really, odd, bad ones, at least), as you can get.

It is truly sad when you can read through this and go, "Oh my gosh, I just read a book exactly like that!", and it said New York Times Best Seller on the front. Do they write books like this just for the people out there who have trouble with reality? Or do they really think that they can write? Thank God for people like Tad Williams. If you haven't read any of his books, then you should. Second only to Tolkien..... truly. Although, it does say "A must read for Tolkien fans"...... Hmmmmmmmm...

Diamond18
06-28-2004, 10:32 PM
I don't write epic fantasy (I classify my genre as "weird stuff") but I have to admit to a few of those --

Roughly square shaped worlds. Oh, shut up....

I do tend to kill almost everyone.

I don't like writing Hard Stuff, like battles, or making it really hard to get into "enemy strongholds" and the like.

And the Loser/Hero. All my characters are technically "losers", because I have always tried to let them be as human as possible. So I actually take issue with that "recommendation", since I believe the more messed up they are the better. :D Ah well. At least my "villains" are really more like tragic heroes to me, so I never fall into the nameless faceless motiveless Dark Lord pit.

Now Eomer, admit it, you think that "breaking rules" is a good thing in general.....

Araréiel
06-28-2004, 10:57 PM
My stories always end up with a bunch of mushy stuff and the female trying to get into the pants of the male who, out of respect for his love for her (and fearing the wrath of her father because he mom's dead) restrains himself and turns her down like an idiot! Okay, so only my current story (already 156 printed pages on 8.5x11" paper, single-spaced in font 10 Times New Roman) has that mush.

This could be a challenge. Write a parody of fantasy novels. A novel idea! Okay, pardon my dumb pun.....

Eomer of the Rohirrim
06-29-2004, 07:48 AM
Ah yes, the subject of romance is dramatically sliced up in a lot of the 'new-wave' fantasy books (probably due to the latest generation of writers having different associations of the word 'fantasy') :rolleyes:

But trying desperately to keep it clean, wasn't Tolkien's romances (Gorn/Arwen, Faramir/Eowyn) amazingly beautiful and, well, romantic? There has been a quite remarkable criticism of Tolkien's male/female relationships over the years, and I think it is horribly unjustified. If you're begging for - what you call - 'realism', then please go away and read Bridget Jones or some other new-age garbage and you'll realise how utterly horrible it is. Then, when you're crawling back along the harsh, dusty road trying in vain to apologise to Tolkien's legacy, I'll be standing watching you, chuckling manicly and saying "I told you so!"

Diamond, a world without rules would be a terrible place, but some rules are mere wannabes, and don't deserve recognition.

Araréiel
06-29-2004, 12:12 PM
I try to keep the romance stuff in mine fantasy. Bridget Jones and crud like that is just so dumb. I like the good stuff where they respect each other. Tolkien had Arwen and Aragorn stay faithful to each other, despite long seperations and possible temptations. Modern "romance" stories have cheating and are overly sexual to the point of trash and mental porn. What ever happened to the sweetest thing being a tender kiss instead of x-rated content?

Yes, I hear a lot of bashing on Tolkien's romances, like how Eowyn and Aragon should have ended up together. They way he did pair them is beautiful. Arwen brings out the softer side of Aragorn, and Eowyn and Faramir both stike me as the types to be more, um, playful, for lack of better word. Eowyn breaks the rules, Faramir abided by them, hoping for affection. Each pairing is done in such a way that they compliment each other, rather than match the strong Eowyn with the kingly Aragorn. Opposites attract.

That's where the romance in my current fic is going wrong-the main two chacters in love are too similar. There are others though, like a set of half-Elven siblings, she in love with an Elf, he in love with a mortal. btw, someone else started out writing with me and got way more into romance, but it works.

That should be another fantasy-writing rule: Always keep relationships free from sex and anything you'd expect to see in a grocery store novel.

Diamond18
06-29-2004, 03:12 PM
That should be another fantasy-writing rule: Always keep relationships free from sex and anything you'd expect to see in a grocery store novel.

Oh but it already is:

Losers are scared of sexuality or dependency in women, so women in fantasy novels are so powerful and pure they make Joan of Arc look like Pamela Anderson. They are strong, noble, loyal, brave, high-bred and usually die in the end – well what else are we going to with them? They’re too scary to marry, and no one in Epic Fantasy Novels ever has sex.

That was one of my favorite parts......

And Eomer, there is plenty of middle ground between Tolkien and Bridget Jones! Fr'heavens sakes. I like to think I write in that middle ground, anyway. While there are sexual relations, it most usually fades to black before anything graphic happens, and much more often than not it's between characters I have pegged as soul mates. I am sort of idealistic that way. Of course, then there are my tragic relationships between people who make a lot mistakes, but then again, as I said I really like having flawed characters. :D

And anyway. There's always Beren and Luthien. :o

Eomer of the Rohirrim
06-30-2004, 05:48 AM
There is absolutely a middle-ground betwixt Tolkien and Bridget Jones. It's just that that middle-ground is rarely trodden. I think a lot of this stuff would be more at home in mark12_30's 'culture' thread.

Araréiel
06-30-2004, 10:10 AM
You're right, Diamond. I forgot about that part. 'Twas late.

And please don't tell me you're comparing the Master's work to Bridget Jones!! That is an insult of the utmost. :eek:

Roccotari Eldandil
07-01-2004, 01:19 PM
Here's my try at some rules...

Describe beautiful or handsome people as "fair."
Use terms like, "in him was reborn the {insert character or physical quality} of the {people group/kings/etc} of old." Don't bother to describe what this wonderful characteristic of the ancient People was, or even make up a background for it. (This is not meant to apply to Tolkien!!!)
Another method for creating names or languages: let your cat/hamster/whatever walk across your keyboard. Or just sit on it.
Name your weapons. Always, always, ALWAYS name them. And make sure they "sing" in battle and have an inner fire.
Be sure to incorporate songs in the story everywhere, be it minstrels or one of the main characters who sings them.
Another character profile: the Sorrowing Soul. S/he must be enshrouded in mystery and sad for no apparent reason. This will manifest itself in descriptions of eyes, movements, and voice. The final battle, when won (of course!) will perhaps bring a half-smile to the character's face, but even when all evil is ended forever, s/he will continue to be sorrowful simply...because.
All horses must be either magnificent, noble, and beautiful, with unlimited endurance OR sad, scraggly nags.

Oddwen
08-23-2006, 07:38 PM
I found this in my web wanderings, and thought of this thread.

The Fantasy Novelist's Exam (http://rinkworks.com/fnovel/)

Diamond18
08-23-2006, 10:34 PM
Aw, you thought of this thread? I'd forgotten all about it. And I started it. In fact, when I saw it up at the top here I thought, "That topic sounds vaguely familiar, I wonder who star... oh, I did."

Anyway, that link was hilarious. Thankfully, I was able to answer "no" to almost every question. Almost.

This probably just means that I prefer to rip off other forms of writing besides traditional Tolkien rip-off fantasy.

Volo
08-24-2006, 06:25 AM
Haven't laughed so for a long long long time (well, yesterday). Especially those names, if I'll ever have kids, I'll name them "Hnaxmtt'om't", "Nbvklormnp", "Y'iy'yi" or "Dghtrkls"... But this proves that I won't have kids.. .

This all reminds me too much of Eragon...

THE Ka
08-24-2006, 11:29 AM
That was a good laugh, especially this:

"Fantasy Worlds never have working economies. Very few people work, there is little agriculture and it is not clear where food comes from."

I've always wondered about that, sometimes an author will throw in a merchant or two, but they are usually at a local pub of some kind, drinking up their equally mysterious constant amount of profit.

~ Ka

JennyHallu
08-24-2006, 01:13 PM
Now, see, I always get so distracted devising believable economies I never get around to writing the story.

THE Ka
08-24-2006, 10:49 PM
Now, see, I always get so distracted devising believable economies I never get around to writing the story.


Good point, Malthus never had a chance to write a good set of fairytales, such as, The Three Little Pigs: A Malthusian Tragedy in Three Parts.


Speaking of which, Malthus can help (I presume), to explain why the 'dark overlord/lady/it' always fails in the end. It isn't because they're simply over confident, they just do not watch out for a Malthusian Catastrophe...

... has access to vast armies which require no food, payment or other provisioning and can travel thousands of mile and lay siege to cities without any need for a catering corps. For all this, the Enemy is completely dependant on some insignificant object such as a ring or a piece of rock for his power.

Obviously, while the Loser/Hero was not even a thought, or off growing into whatever they are, the 'evil being' has been carefully planning a successful and prosperious society.

Unfortunately, due to the Loser/Hero's kafkaesque ability to call on a challenge to the 'evil being', they have caused the perfect tip for the imbalance of population consumption vs. worker output, and the 'evil being' in a mad dash is forced to let their economic imbalance proceed. In an ill fate invest their slowly crumbling product quantity, they have to resource to insignificant objects and uncomplicative methods of bartering and smoke screens.

It is not that the 'evil being' has expendible workers entirely, it is just that enough of them are in the unemployment line and they have to take care of them somehow, unfortunately in rather undesirable uptakings, all thanks to the Loser/Hero's inscurity and easy ability to be goaded by other's to break a not too shabby economy.

Okay, enough of my rant. It is boring me, and most likely everyone else.

~ Ka

Eomer of the Rohirrim
08-25-2006, 05:47 AM
Very amusing, Oddwen. I especially like:

Does your story involve a number of different races, each of which has exactly one country, one ruler and one religion?

:D

Volo
08-25-2006, 07:11 AM
To one question in Oddwen's link I for sure answer "no"! That is question 75...

Alcarin
09-16-2006, 05:37 AM
Nice Thread...i'm writing a fantasy-novel... maybe ill post some chapters if you guys are interested...

Volo
09-16-2006, 06:21 AM
Definitely!

Farael
09-16-2006, 01:11 PM
Ah, excelent fun and entretainment, both the original "rules" and the "quiz". I think it could be a fun idea to try a RPG that will follow the rules and answer "no" to all (or most) things on the quiz... although it would probably prove to be much harder than what it seems, given that you can't make it so bad that it won't even be funny. Hmmmm must thinks about this, my precioussss.

Hey! They forgot one kind of character:

"Evil creature that aids the protagonist out of fear/a personal evil plan/pretty much any feeling other than good will, who in the end starts to become "redeemed" and "good" and yet falls to temptation, abandons the path of redemption and dies tragically, killed by either the protagonist or a cruel twist of fate"

Oddwen
09-16-2006, 07:40 PM
I liked numbers 58 & 71. :)


A couple other things I found wanting in the lists:

The young boy character has no living mother. He may, however, have a grandmother or spinster aunt who is skilled in arcane arts.

Matters of the Birds & Bees will be treated delicately or passed off altogether in the first book, but by the third, anything goes.

A plague must wipe out much of the royal/badguy family either at the time of the story, or in the near past.

The main character must discover a skill in magic early on. The Wise but Useless Guide must always be impressed by the skill level shown from the first, and compare him to famous magicians at the peak of their own skill.

Each person's magic must have their own color. (I hate this!) They may or may have not have eyes or a weapon to match.


And there are a few things in the Evil Overlord List (www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html) that might be applicable here as well.

Oddwen
11-30-2006, 03:50 PM
The main protagonist should have to go to a primitive people because of some

A. An incureable disease
B. His/her wizard mentor told them to
C. His/her girl/boyfriend told them to
D: It was on the way to defeat the big bad dark lord/lady

Said protagonist must incur help from said primitive people, but the help they are willing to offer is never good enough, so Protagonistagon must forcibly bring the primitive people into some form of modernity, just because he/she feels it's best. Any tactic will be used, from threatening the natives with his scorn ("Oh no! Not that!"), to threatening that they will be overcome by the dark lord/lady if they do not do exactly what he says, to killing the people in charge and placing his girlfriend in charge.

Even Tolkien did this, to some degree, though it was needed. Namely, Gandalf casting Wormtongue out.

Oh yes, and

The Wizard Guide has to die or go on some secret quest of his own, leaving the main character helpless at the climax of the book.

Volo
02-07-2007, 09:21 AM
We're going to write one with Oddwen pretty soon. Right? :D

Oddwen
02-07-2007, 10:21 AM
BWHAHAHA (http://community.livejournal.com/thebarrowdowns/3613.html)! I had forgotten about these lists. They will be a very valuable guidebook, methinks.

The 1,000 Reader
02-07-2007, 08:20 PM
I have two.

All enemy villains must be afraid of sunlight/wizard character/girls. They must also betray themselves for no reason.

The main Dark Lord enemy is constantly feared and is said to be powerful, when all throughout the book he doesn't do anything other than meet defeat countless times. Despite this, he is supposedly better than his generals who destroy countries and require tons of divine intervention and enigmas to defeat.