What colour is Legolas` hair?

[wilwarin538]

Hey everybody! I just need to know if someone has proof of what colour Legolas` hair supposed to be, cause Ive seen pictures of him with dark hair and then in the movie he`s blond, so Im a little confused. Does anyone know?

[Mithadan]

I started a thread giving my opinion on this issue a long time ago (it was one of the first threads I started on BD). Feel free to borrow from that thread in this discussion. It can be found here. (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=5981)

[The Saucepan Man]

There are also a number of other threads which address this issue in the Haudh-en-Ndengin forum. Click here for the Index (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=5920), and then click on the links under "Legolas - Appearance" and "Elves - Hair Colour". (They include the thread linked to by Mithadan above.)

[Lush]

Pink, of course. This was an Elf who was very comfortable in his masculinity, after all.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Obviously the real question here is 'What colour is Legolas' hare', which I don't think has a thread yet. Don't be so quick to assume that something's been discussed before just because there's a typo in the title.

Personally I don't think there's enough evidence to offer a satisfactory answer on this issue. Although The Fauna of Middle-earth ( HoME XIV) mentions that Thranduil was a breeder of chinchillas, the only pet that it mentions for Legolas is a guinea pig called Fluff. A footnote to letter #412 does mention, however, that Legolas' favourite colour was purple. Infer from that what you will.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I'd always assumed that the hare was brown, but when I think more of it, would Legolas want his own personal hare to be the same color as the rest of the hares in Mirkwood? He IS a prince, after all. If I were a prince [actually, princess] of the forest, I would certainly want my hare to be noticable. What would happen if the hare escaped, I ask you? It would just blend in. And I know that Elves are good and all that, when it comes to nature, but if you've got a forest full of brown hares, would you be able to pick one of them out from the bunch? Now that I've been thinking, Legolas's hare may very well have been blonde.

Fea

[The Saucepan Man]

Surely Mirkwood hares are black, like the Squirrels and Butterflies ...

[wilwarin538]

Well thanks, it was helpful to read those old forums. I personally only had an image of Legolas being blonde since I saw the movies then read the books I never got my own Idea of what he looked like, but I think I would of thought of him as a blond since Arwen was mentioned to be noted for her dark hair I probably would have autimatically thought that dark hair was rare and that most elves were blond. but of course ive only resintly read the books so I dont know much about them,and I guess dark hair isnt that rare, im glad ive learned something, I deffinetly know were to go if I have more questions, thanks again.

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

Legolas' hare was probably black at first until he got bunnied by Christopher Tolkien at which point the hare became blonde. Of course, Legolas was almost late for the Council of Elrond, which would seem to imply that his hare was white.

[The Barrow-Wight]

Since the original question has been answered many times in the past and properly linked to, this topic now belongs in Mirth. I'm moving it there. Thanks a lot, Squatter :p :D :smokin:

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

I resent my research being consigned to Mirth just because nobody else has the HoME extended edition.

Fordim has a very good point there: Legolas may well have had a white hare, which was the ancient symbol of poor timekeeping among the Sindar. It's possible, though, that he would have given any such pet a blue rinse. In his footnote, Tolkien says: "In fact Legolas was particularly fond of purple, especially as an artificial hair colour. His liking for it was so pronounced even for Thranduil's folk that it marked him out from his fellows from an early age."

Pets in Middle-earth were rare, particularly rodents, which have a tendency to eat beatifully crafted furniture and nibble perfect flowing locks. One of the few characters who does possess a dog, at least in early draughts of LotR, is Aragorn, whose West Highland Terrier would earn him drinks by balancing peanuts on its nose.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Indeed Squatter, I believe Aragorn's dog was named Charles. He was a delightful fellow, I hear.

This thread surprises me, insofar as it is hard for me to imagine Legolas owning a hare. This is due to a little known passage in early drafts of 'The Ring goes South' where Legolas steps on and crushes a rabbit, and curses at it for making his shoes all bloody.

[Mad Baggins]

He may have received it from Rivendell as one of their many hare messengers. Then Legolas, being the greedy sod he is, may have kept it after reading the note tied to its ears. As punishment, his father Thranduil made him go to the Council of Elrond. It was white when it reached Mirkwood, but according to his purple fetish Legolas may have dyed it.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Or even in a pathetic attempt to disguise his theft. Legolas was terribly vain about his position in society, and did everything to maintain his respectability short of actually being respectable.

The use of messenger hares among the Eldar is quite well documented. It was an early idea, which was later replaced with Osanwë-Kenta. However, Tolkien does remark in a letter to Kenneth Williams that "When they became fatigued through the use of this technique, they would turn at last to the faithful hares, who had ever been their staunchest allies at need".

Círdan the Shipwright had used his awesome carpentry skills to construct a number of high-rise hutch-flets in the trees around the Grey Havens, where the rodent allies of the departing Eldar might reside until the Elves had need of them. Of course, rabbit pie is as good a foodstuff as any when you run out of Lembas. Círdan was nothing if not practical.

[Saraphim]

I do not doubt that the hare, upon the time of its birth, was white.

But Legolas, after experimenting with different colors for his own head at an early age and finding that it only made his beutiful locks brittle and lackluster, would have recieved the rabbit and then proceeded to dye it whatever color the esteemed elven princling had an urge for.

At the time of the War, it was obviously purple, as Legolas would have wanted his hare to be his favorite color to comfort his thoughts on the long nights he spent in travel.

[The Only Real Estel]

I'm fairly certain that the hare started out as black. Legolas captured it in one of his many raiding party adventures, as recounted in The Complete Tale of Legolas & Co.'s Adventures; Vol. 3. Then, as I've found in my extensive search through the 1,000 page documentary Obsecure Side-Plots of The Lord of the Rings, he trained it to sniff out dwarves that happened to be traveling through the Mirkwood Forest. One particular dwarf had the singular misfortune of having most of his blue beard hacked off, so that Legolas could expierement with fur-transfusions. Thus, Legolas's hare came to be blue, though it can be argued that Legolas later found a way to make him purple, like other posters have mentioned here.

Pets in Middle-earth were rare, particularly rodents, which have a tendency to eat beatifully crafted furniture and nibble perfect flowing locks. One of the few characters who does possess a dog, at least in early draughts of LotR, is Aragorn, whose West Highland Terrier would earn him drinks by balancing peanuts on its nose.

Aragorn was one of the few to have a dog, but Sam was the only non-Haradrim being to ever own an Oliphaunt. His journey to the Grey Havens was partially brought on by the stress of trying to keep his 'Ollie' (as he named it), & keeping all of his beloved trees safe, no easy task. In The Supposed Tales That Are Still Unfinished, it says that Sam brought Ollie across the water with him on a barge, & so the two came to the Undying Lands together. That, of course, is only partially verified-take it with a grain of salt.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I was under the impression that Boromir had a raven colored hare, bred specifically to match those hairs on his head. However Tolkien is said to have left the hare out of the books because it didn't flow with the main storyline (once upon a time, Bori's raven hare was said to have stopped an army of Uruks from massacring an entire legion, simply by hopping in front of the enemy's lead row. The Uruks were so surprised at the audacity that they yelled in shock, waking up the good guys, who then proceeded to beat them in a very quick skirmish...).

I believe the raven hare was left out of the movies for the same reason that the raven hair was... Boromir and Faramir (who I believe had a matching raven hare) needed to look different from Aragorn. Since they changed the hair color, and really didn't want to risk upsetting die-hard color fans, rather than changing the hare color of these two's pets, they simply left them out. That's why they are thought to not exist...

Fea

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

If Legolas' hare were a balrog, would it have wings?

If it were from far Rhun, would it be the Eastern Bunny?

[Nurumaiel]

Actually, Fordim, it is interesting that you should mention the hare having wings, for just today I was fortunate enough to get a brief glimpse of The Complete Tale of Legolas & Co.'s Adventures -(which Estel mentioned earlier)- Vol. 7 which is not officially out for purchase yet. It was stated within this seventh volume that while Legolas' hare was not in fact a balrog it did have wings.

However the wings were quite useless until Legolas took it upon himself to teach the hare how to fly, wisely thinking that it would be quite useful to have a flying hare at times. Besides using it as a very handy messenger as Elves were accustomed to doing in older days, Legolas also trained the hare to be quite a successful Nazgul hunter.

It is odd that no Race of Man, nor of Hobbit, nor of Elf, nor of any race known or unknown has ever recorded in their histories the large part this flying hare in the War of the Ring. It was this very same flying hare that led the Eagles to lend their assistance towards the end of the war, and as Vol 7. states it is a commonly believed opinion that the father of this flying hare was present at the Battle of Five Armies, doing as his son and acting as leader of the Eagles.

Perhaps I should not disclose the secrets of Vol. 7, however. It will be available in paperback in the Winter of this year.

[The Only Real Estel]

I was fortunate enough to get a brief glimpse of The Complete Tale of Legolas & Co.'s Adventures -(which Estel mentioned earlier)- Vol. 7 which is not officially out for purchase yet. It was stated within this seventh volume that while Legolas' hare was not in fact a balrog it did have wings.

The 7th volume? I hadn't heard of that one...I'm eagerly awaiting it's publishing 'this Winter'.

Another hare that was mentioned in one of the books I read recently (Saruman's Lore & Pet Book, quite interesting) was the one owned by Saruman. When Saruman noticed that the Dark Lord Sauron didn't have a hare yet, he thought he'd prove his supremacy to the Dark Lord by beating him to one. Thus, Saruman owned a hare far before Sauron ever did (if indeed he did).
The hare itself was slightly curious, & I can't give you the exact color, the books said that when the hare moved, his color changed. I believe it described it as 'a coat of many colors'. Gandalf, when he was fortunate enough to be in Orthanc in FotR, was quite bewildered when he saw Saruman's new coat, but more bewildered by the site of the many-colored hare. I'm not sure why PJ left the hare out of the movies; but I hear Christopher Lee made a great push for it, only to be snubbed (again). At any rate, Saruman's hare was the most prolific, but he sometimes drove the wizard to destraction with the high palantir bills that he racked up talking to his girlfriend (a plain brown hare, looked after by Radagast, or so it's believed).

[Vanwatholiel]

sorry i have nothing to say. i just wanted to try out my new avatar. sorry.

[Vanwatholiel]

it worked!!! yay!!!!!! okay im done.

[Nimrothiel]

This hare wouldn't happen to be related to the rabbit from "Monty Python and the Search for the Holy Grail" would it? That is, so far the hare has been classified as white, and has the ability to fly. I'm not sure as to the disposition of the hare, but judging from the fact that Legolas probably did dye its fur it would not have what one would call a "sunny" personality. (The "Eastern Bunny," snerk.)

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

All your posts do comfort me greatly for I hadn't come across any information about Legolas's hare after the end of 3rd Age and I feared that this little thoughtful creature had left Mirkwood to track its master and got lost. Then it could easily have wandered to Ithilien and we all know wery well what danger there was to get eaten by two hungry hobbits! But since most of you have agreed that its fur didn't possess any "normal" color (and I think Tolkien would have mentioned if Frodo and Sam had eaten purple hares) I can finally sleep my nights well witout worrying that little hares fortune. Thanks!

[Fordim Hedgethistle]

I've been so intrigued by this thread that I undertook some careful research of my own. I found (much to my delight and surprise) this brief reference to a very little-known manuscript that Prof Tolkien gives us in one of his unpublished letters:

"I have been working sporadically upon a sequel to LotR that tells of the wanderings and searchings of Legolas' bunny, who went in search of his master soon after Leg. departed for the Council of Elrond. I have tentatively entitled it The Rabbit: Hare and Back Again"

I can only wonder why Christopher Tolkien has supressed this manuscript. . . I suspect that it is woefully uncanonical.

[piosenniel]

The Shire Mods recently bought the rights from the Tolkien Estate to this little scenario on eBay. (Paid dearly for it I might add! Both Child and I have had to forego the stand-ups of Legolas and Boromir we were bidding on . . . sigh . . . another time, my dear Sean!)

Hare and Back Again is even now being developed into an exciting RPG.

Check the Green Dragon for announcements of the Discussion Thread taking on players.

~*~ Pio ;)

[Lady Snickerdoodle]

With regards to the hare in question, I wish to state my opinion on the matter. Taking into account that Legolas was a well-raised prince and the chosen representative of Mirkwood, one might conjecture that being the thoughtful diplomat he was, his hare would have been rainbow-colored so as not to offend anyone in particular. ;)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Rainbow hare hair doth the thoughtful diplomat make, but Snick, being a "representative from Mirkwood," Leggy represents not only the people, but the creatures, and would he represent them in a way that is different to their natural appearance? Because of his thoughfulness, I am quite sure that Legolas would want his hare to be chosen of the hares, by the hares, and for the hares. And the hares would quite obviously choose a representative that is similar to them (can't, for example, choose a diplomatic hare that kills knights with is big pointy teeth!). My conclusion: Legolas's hare must be black... or at least very dark brown.

Fea

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Oh, that sounds very democratic! Unless there is some noble hare family and all the descendants in that line are logical candidates for elf princes's pets :eek:

[Lady Snickerdoodle]

Oh, that sounds very democratic! Unless there is some noble hare family and all the descendants in that line are logical candidates for elf princes's pets :eek: primogeniture!!!!! *runs off screaming, "IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY!!!"*

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

some noble hare family and all the descendants in that line are logical candidates
What with the rate of hare reproduction, that is one LARGE number of candidates. I prefer to think princeling hares are fairly elected by their peers. That way the job of representation is given to the best man... er, hare... regardless of birth right.

Fea

[Mad Baggins]

But would Legolas want his choice of colour to be governed by the hares of Mirkwood? Most likely, he would choose it himself. I still believe that, purple being the favourite, his hare would be lavender. Elves do not allow themselves to be governed by foreign forces; they govern themselves and therefore govern the colour of their hares. I found a passage in the Tale of Years that may help determine when Legolas obtained and changed the colour of this hare:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
April

6 A messenger hare from Rivendell reaches Mirkwood bearing the news about the Council; Legolas keeps it and is forced to journey to the council as punishment by Thranduil.

12 Gandalf reaches Hobbiton.

15 Legolas takes his hare in secret and changes the colour of its fur; the colour remains unrecorded in this account.

[The Saucepan Man]

Aragorn may well have owned a performing hound, but it is a little known fact that he was himself a hare.

Yes indeed, he was of course Isildur's hare ...

*Groan*

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

No, no Saucy, you've got it all wrong. While there was of course a hare to the throne of Gondor, it was not Aragorn. It was his little known pet. Just like the Kings and the Stewards, the line of Hares remained unbroken for all the many long years. This is where the idea of an Elven Princeling Hare family came from, but the Elves were more democratic than the Kings of Old. ;)

Fea

[The Saucepan Man]

While there was of course a hare to the throne of Gondor, it was not Aragorn. Yet the Stewards denied it. Wasn't it Boromir who said:


Gondor has no Hare; Gondor needs no Hare.Well, I'm sure that it was in the book somewhere ... :rolleyes:

In any event, the claim to the Hare of Gondor was a matter much disputed. When Bugsidoc II, who was born of a union between the Hares of Gondor and the Bunnies of Rhovanion, made his claim, there was much protest from the Furriers of Gondor, led by Elmafud. The resulting civil war was, I believe, known as the Skin-strife.

[Mad Baggins]

Is that not how Aragorn and Legolas became friends? They both owned hares, and so when Aragorn was travelling with his rabbit in Mirkwood, they met. Of course, they began discussing the genealogy of their hares and discovered that both were descendants of an ancient line from the great Bugsidoc II himself.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

The ambiguity of Tolkien's references has spawned a multitude of fan fictions and RPGs on this topic. I see that even on this renowned forum, there are such threads as "Last Ride of the Hare" RPG. I think this is hare-etical! The Can-hare-icity issue must be taken seriously; though we can discuss the possibilities of various suggestions Tolkien senior made for the plot, and debate Tolkien junior's choices, we must ad-hare to the final decisions the author made in his published work. Neith-hare more nor less...

[Nirvana II]

three words: dark platinum blonde

[elfwishes999]

okay, my guess is that his hair is blonde cuz when hez in mirkwood and if he should ever get lost (for whatever reason) other elves could see him easier....but i dont think thats right...but blonde does look good on him in the movies!!!

[The Only Real Estel]

okay, my guess is that his hair is blonde cuz when hez in mirkwood and if he should ever get lost (for whatever reason) other elves could see him easier....but i dont think thats right...but blonde does look good on him in the movies!!!

Uh-oh, it looks like elfwishes999 actually posted on what the thread-starter asked instead of what we've made the conversation. Why would she do a thing like that :eek:? ;)

[Mad Baggins]

It would make sense to have a light-coloured bunny, for if it should become lost it would stand out among the darkness of Mirkwood. elfwishes has made a point. And blonde rabbits do look good as an accessory on Legolas.

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

blonde rabbits do look good
Oh, a blonde hare - a rival for Legolas! Would he dare to compete with a bunny that which of the two has more silky and soft hair/fur...
According to Legolas' Diary (online edition, further info from CoE: diaries, secret) he has some obsession with being the prettiest. A purple hare wouldn't be so serious opponent.

[mark12_30]

CHORUS
Legobunny Froodo, running through the forest
Scooping up the field mice and bopp'n 'em on the head

And the Goo--oo--ooood Fairy came a-tumbling down
And she said:

Legobunny Froodo, I don't wanna see you
Scooping up the field mice and bopp'n 'em on the head



I'll give you three more chances--
and then--
I'm gonna turn you into a Gollum.

CHORUS

...Two more chances...

CHORUS

...One more chance...

CHORUS...

I gave you three chances!
So now-----
I'm gonna turn you into a Gollum!

And the moral of the story is,
Hairy today,
Gollum tomorrow.

[elronds_daughter]

oh, dear. you're all going quite overboard. indeed, Legolas did have a hare, but its color was quite unnoticeable, on account of its being extremely small. that does not mean that it had no color, however. i am inclined to believe that it was much like a chameleon, changing its color whenever it wanted to. but i think it preferred its color to be hot pink with lime green stripes. :D

*thinks to self* are we having too much fun with this?

*alter ego replies* of course not! no such thing as too much fun!

you're sure?

positive. it's so incredibly fun to take someone's seemingly innocent statement and twist it to your own whims.

oh.

cheers!

Elrond's (other)(schizophrenic) daughter

[The Saucepan Man]

Legobunny Froodo, running through the forest
Scooping up the field mice and bopp'n 'em on the headNo, no, no. Frodo was Bilbo's hare. :rolleyes: :p

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Quite, Saucepan.

Does anyone else find it surprising that Mirkwood seemed like such a hotbed of hare activity? I think that this proves beyond a shadow of a doubt the intense and sometimes ferocious rivalry between Mirkwood and Rivendell. After all, Rivendell was the hare-capital of Middle-earth, under the power of Elrond's Ring Vilya, the Ring of Hare.

I feel that this discussion is surely drenched in Elven politics and the struggle for control between Elrond and Thranduil.

[The Saucepan Man]

Actually, I believe that Rohan became the "hare centre" of Middle-earth in the Third Age. The people of Rohan prized hares above all else. Hence their name "Rohirrim" from the Sindarin for "harey-people". Since most of their hares were blonde, they became known amongst the Dunlendings as "straw-hares".

The most prized hares in Rohan were the Marcheas, descendants of the March Hare of Orome the Hatter. It is said that, back in the mists of time, oft could Orome be seen at Middle-earth garden parties with his March Hare in tow.

Theoden's hare, Cottontail, was one of the Marcheas, but became known as Theodens' folly when it fell on him at the tea-party of Pelennor and crushed him under its weight.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Crushed Theoden? My goodness, these hares must have been gigantic. Perhaps related to the giant hares of Nurn.

Nurn is a land steeped in fear, where giant hares roam the hills, free to devour anyone they find delectable.

[The Saucepan Man]

Yes, the Hares of Rohan were indeed of immense size. But not quite as large as the legendary Hares of Ar-Gnaw that lived around the Sea of Rabbit-Rhun. Boromir's horn was carved from the incisor of one such magnificent beast.

[wilwarin538]

I here there are not just GIGANTIC hares but miniture ones also wandering about. There are about the size of your baby toe. They`ve been going unnoticed for centuries until someone accidentely stepped on one and realized what it was. Perhaps Legolas` hare was actually a miniture hare.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

My goodness, this claim of mini-hares will have purists rubbing their eyes in disbelief. It has long been denied by many in high places (including Elrond) that such tiny hares are real. For the debate to be this heated, I doubt that Legolas' hare was a mini, because Elrond probably saw it.

Or did he? Perhaps Legolas kept his hare a secret from Elrond and the Council for his own fiendish purposes.

[Saraphim]

I have heard of a hare that was bred by Morgoth to be the most deadly and fearsome creature in history. Sources say that the hare, a white-furred, red-eyed beast stuck fear into the hearts of good and evil alike, causing even Carcharoth to whimper as the hare passed.

It has been told that the hare survived the passing of Morgoth, and even of Sauron, hiding in caves of the North, a place called Caer Bannog.

History states that the unforunate animal met his demise by a handful of knights in roughly the fifth age, when they used a Holy Hand Grenade to destroy it.

And so passed the greatest foe the world has known.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Interesting tale Saraphim, but if you'd care to make that claim ('greatest foe the world has known') on The Warg Thread I'm sure you'll be met with heated opposition.





*Eomer shows no shame in advertising his thread* :D

[elronds_daughter]

I here there are not just GIGANTIC hares but miniture ones also wandering about. There are about the size of your baby toe. They`ve been going unnoticed for centuries until someone accidentely stepped on one and realized what it was. Perhaps Legolas` hare was actually a miniture hare.
wasn't that my suggestion??

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

It does still strike me as odd that Tolkien would grant Legolas a hare. I know he liked to alter his characters somewhat (Treebeard, etc.), but after painting the picture of Legolas to be someone prone to brutal acts against rabbits and hares, this alteration seems bizarre.

I refer, of course, to the early drafts of The Lord of the Rings in which Legolas appeared to take great delight from shooting the wild hares with his bow and arrows.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

History states that the unforunate animal met his demise by a handful of knights in roughly the fifth age, when they used a Holy Hand Grenade to destroy it.
Truly, and it was even forseen that such a thing would happen. Behold:

Then will they raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Middle Earth, saying, "Bless this, Eru, that with it thou mayst blow Morgoth's minions to tiny bits, in thy mercy."... And the people will rejoice and will feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals and rabbits... And so Eru said, "First thou pullest the Holy Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand Grenade in the direction of the bunny, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."

[mark12_30]

Wow. That was blonde.

[wilwarin538]

Im am sorry elronds_daughter, I didnt see your suggestion about the miniture hares. Great minds do think alike. ;)

[elronds_daughter]

Great minds do think alike.
yes, that must be it... ;)


Truly, and it was even forseen that such a thing would happen. Behold:
Then will they raise on high the Holy Hand Grenade of Middle Earth, saying, "Bless this, Eru, that with it thou mayst blow Morgoth's minions to tiny bits, in thy mercy."... And the people will rejoice and will feast upon the lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals and rabbits... And so Eru said, "First thou pullest the Holy Pin. Then thou must count to three. Three shall be the number of the counting and the number of the counting shall be three. Four shalt thou not count, neither shalt thou count two, excepting that thou then proceedeth to three. Five is right out. Once the number three, being the number of the counting, be reached, then lobbest thou the Holy Hand Grenade in the direction of the bunny, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuff it."
wow... that was WONDERFUL!!! just beautiful... thank you, Feanor. Monty Python fans, UNITE!

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I once had a drunken conversation with Michael Palin and one of the Python cameramen regarding Legolas, although Michael seemed convinced that Legolas had a pet weasel.

I tried (to no avail) to show him the error of his ways.

[wilwarin538]

A weasel? Where on earth did he get such a crazy idea? What is this world coming to? *Hits her self many times on the head with her copy of the Fellowship, yelling out " A weasel, UGH" *

No worries my mind is still in tact! :rolleyes:

[The Only Real Estel]

From hair to hare to weasel...only here on the Downs :D

[Nimrothiel]

I hope that my humble post inspired you Feanor of the Peredhil, in which I suggested that Legolas' hare and the guardian of Caer Bannog were related. ;)
That movie never grows old; I watched it yet again today. wilwaren538, perhaps the fact that it was apparently a drunken conversation would explain why the idea was so far-fetched. :p You wouldn't happen to be chanting a certain something as you whack yourself on the head, would you? ;) (Quietly chants to self, "Peis Iesu Domine, Dona eis requiem. *whack*")

[elronds_daughter]

From hair to hare to weasel...only here on the Downs :D
TOO TRUE.


Quietly chants to self, "Peis Iesu Domine, Dona eis requiem. *whack*"
rats! the "banghead" smiley doesn't work on this site! who's for a petition to get new smileys!? but thank you, i'd never figured out the words those monks were saying... guess i haven't watched it enough.

[wilwarin538]

i'd never figured out the words those monks were saying... guess i haven't watched it enough.

Is that what that was, I got out my quenya wordlist trying to figure out what Nimrothiel was talking about.Thanks elronds_daughter. :D

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Oh, indeed, Nimrothiel. The first Python reference I saw on this site made me jump for joy. Literally. And my boyfriend asked me what was wrong and I showed him and he said "And you didn't say it?" Sooooo happy. You inspired me, and Saraphim's post gave me the opening. Not to mention I've got strep (no longer contagious, yay!) and had little else to do but hang out online all day.

Eomer: I also had heard the weasel rumor. Drunken conversations tend to be cyclic, do they not? You finish one topic, head to another, and then return to rehash the first. Well, we were discussing the hare (my companion, was tipsy, but not I, having eschewed alcohol some time ago) and he mentioned the hare being eaten by the weasel. Eaten, I tell you! But I told him, I did indeed, that if Legolas' hare was truly a descendant of the demonic bunny of Caer Bannog, than no mere weasel would stand a chance against him. He laughed, and I reminded him that, as between the two of us, I was the one sober, that it was my word we would be going with. He changed his opionon, and we have a new white haired (and hared ;) ), red eyed, pointy teeth believing convert.

I must ask though... What do you suppose Legolas' hare ate? They didn't grow... coconuts... in Mirkwood? I'd always thought Mirkwood was a temperate zone, and coconuts are, of course, tropical. But they could always be carried... do you suppose crebain are big enough to carry coconuts? It is, after all, a simple matter of weight ratios.

Okay, okay, I'll stop now. I really do need to get a new hobby.

Fea

[wilwarin538]

That is a wonderful question. I didnt realize, though, that hares ate coconuts. But I do suppose they could be carried by crebain, as I always thought crebain were fairly large birds, they are probably all but capable of carrying some coconuts to are Mirkwood hares. I dont think there are carrots growing in Mirkwood, though for sure a crebain could carry carrots unless the carrots in ME are gigantic for those gigantic hares we talked about. Or is it only rabbits that eat carrots, I personally dont see the difference.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I didnt realize, though, that hares ate coconuts.
They do now. They use their big pointy teeth to poke holes in the husk and thus reach the tender inside.

But are crebain migratory? If not, I guess it doesn't matter whether or not they could carry coconuts (which I don't think they could... can they even grip things?), because they would never have access to coconuts to carry. So unless the hares just... found... the coconuts...

Fea

*calls off into the distance: "Come Patsy!"*

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Legolas fed his hare scampi and wine. It was a much fawned-upon bunny.

[wilwarin538]

Very fawned upon indeed. I can only imagine what a drunken hare would be like. It probably be very amusing to see its lopsided drunken hop. hehe :p

[Nimrothiel]

Perhaps they feasted upon lambs and toads and tree-sloths and fruit-bats and orangutans and breakfast cereals and rabbits...wait, that last one doesn't seem right. :eek: But then again, they did have nasty, sharp, pointy teeth. ;)

[wilwarin538]

nimrothiel arent hares vegetarian? Unless it is a tree- sloth made out of letace.

[ninlaith]

I agree it should be blonde. As someone said before he lives in Mirkwood and other Elves would probably be able to see each other better if they were blonde.

[wilwarin538]

perhaps, ninlaith you should read about are new topic. There is no need to discuss his hair anymore, I have recived all the information I need. We are now discussing legolas` hare not hair. You are welcome to join the conversation.

Cheers ;)

Wilwa

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Thank you very much indeed, Wilwarin, I was afraid I would have to get the thread back off-track myself!

Now, of Legolas' hare, we've discussed:


color (white, black, dark brown, purple, rainbow colored)


size (gigantic, such as the Trojan Rabbit, or small, such as the guardian of Caer Bannog, or even tiny, although that is disputed by Elrond)


diet (breakfast cereals, coconuts, tree slothes, etc...)


heritage (royal house of Hares versus the common hare)


job selection (birth right versus democracy)


But we have forgotten something absolutely crucial to the understanding of Legolas' hare. What was his disposition? As a diplomat, we must surmise that the hare (and I shall henceforth call him Elmerf [in honor of Elmafud and because of Legolas' sense of humor, thinking to name the hare "Elf" because of its pointy ears]) was thoughtful. Elmerf would be a very kind, gentle, and wellspoken hare, if indeed he was an ambassidor from Mirkwood. Or am I wrong? Perhaps Elmerf was slightly demonic and achieved his position through bullying and "taking care of" the oppositon.

Fea

[yavanna II]

It was in Bombur's dream that there was a King with golden hair.... if Leggy's mommy was a brunnette he could get a 50% chance of blonde or brown hair.

[elronds_daughter]

dear, dear. someone else replying on-topic... tsk, tsk. for those of you who don't already know this, the topic has changed. Wilwarin herself has verefied this. She started this thread, recall.

[ninlaith]

ahh give me a break. I'm blonde myself I don't notice these things. ;)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

It was a much fawned-upon bunny
Indeed, I had also heard the rumor of this mysterious fawn. Legolas' other pet. It's name was Bambuilas and is said to have stepped on Elmerf's tail on the odd occasion. I believe he may have been black.

Fea

[wilwarin538]

Bambuilas was a little jealous of are Elmerf was he. If Elmerf got scampi and wine, what excatly did Bambuilas eat? Leftovers from the table perhaps? Know was Bambuilas a gigantic or miniture hare?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Hares, weasels, fawns? When you get this far off topic, you really ought to wonder if its worth carrying on. :p

[The Only Real Estel]

Hares, weasels, fawns? When you get this far off topic, you really ought to wonder if its worth carrying on.

Yeah, we should try to keep more to the 'topic' instead of going of on all these 'bunny trails'...:p

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Now was Bambuilas a gigantic or miniture hare?
No, no, Wilwarin! Bambuilas was the fawn! He was normal sized, or so say all reliable accounts. His father cameoed in The Hobbit, as the Dwarves and Bilbo were crossing the water in Mirkwood. It would have been Bambuilas making the appearance (as was originally planned by Tolkien), only he was too busy nosing around Elmerf's hair dye (purple, as chosen by their owner).

Fea

Another note: Since the original topic change was noted and allowed by the Master Wight himself, we are left to surmise that so long as we stay on the crazy topic of Legolas' pets and their appearances and mannerisms, we'll be okay. At least I think so...

[wilwarin538]

Sorry bout that Fea, I suppose I didnt read your last post very thoroughly, I just missed the fawn part. My mistake. :D

[Evisse the Blue]

You people are truly insane. :D Here I was, thinking 'why would a thread debating the colour of Legolas's hair reach 3 pages and still going strong?' and meanwhile you were here discussing the lesser-known fauna of Middle Earth (I mean the one that's not already covered in the Warg and Warg-Rider Appreciation thread. Yep, I checked out your much-advertised thread, Eomer. I was thinking it's time you placed a pop-up: when people log on the Downs, they'd be warned that in order to avoid an unfortunate accident they might have today, they should check out said thread at once ;) ).

But returning to the subject at hand, since you're all so learned in the subject of Legolas's hare, please tell me what part did the hare play, if any, in the quest. Because, even if he was a tiny hare, we must remember that 'even the smallest animal can chage the course of history'.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Agreed Fea, as long as it concerns Legolas and the animals of his life, I will support this thread.

And Evisse, it is nice to know that my 'techniques' are working. :)

[wilwarin538]

Oh no my thread is dying. :eek: I would much like to hear your opinions on the disposition of Elmerf, as Fea suggested earlier. I personally think he was a very quite hare that only rarely got upset, but who knows he may have also been a mean bunny, thou I highly doupt it since Legolas would probably only want a nice pet. Thoughts????

Wilwa

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I think Elmerf was probably not too nice, but completely unthreatening nonetheless. This attitude would come from years of being spoiled by the Handsome Prince.

By the way wilwarin, I can relate to your anxiety about the 'life' of your thread. Been there before. :)

[dancing spawn of ungoliant]

Do you guys know any reliable source that would tell if Elmerf was a bunny lad or lass and how old was he/ she? Because that, I believe, influences on the behaviour of Legolas' dear pet - or should we call that bunny in this case a domestic animal...
Depending on the status of the hares of Mirkwood, they might have been considered as domestic animals.

Anyway, I think that Legolas would have preferred a male hare for the job of a Prince's personal domestic animal. For so lofty a job must even the youngest novice rabbit have unswerving fidelity and good looks (of course). Elmerf had to act like a noble ambassador in public, but who knows what he was busying himself with on his spare time :eek:

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Do you guys know any reliable source
Indeed, Dancing Spawn, The Book of Lost Tails is a great source indeed, although long since out of print and most copies have been destroyed through freak accidents and llamas. It gives many details about the animal companions of Middle Earth that are so embarrassingly over-looked elsewhere. It tells us not only that Elmerf was a bunny lad, but that he had a twin! She, of course, was named Caerwen and was rather mean. Shunned out of the life of hare politics, you know? Left to guard a cave somewhere... Anyhow, I suggest everyone here giving The Book of Lost Tails a thorough reading... Bambuilas is discussed in great detail.

Fea

PS- No worries Wilwarin, we'll keep your thread alive. Or dead, whatever seems more fitting for this place.

[wilwarin538]

I never liked llamas. :mad: I will have to get my self a copy of that it sounds extremely interesting. I suppose since Caerwen was shunned for being mean then that would prove that Elmerf was not mean, since as far as I know he wasn`t not left to go guard some cave. Or of course it could of been some plot and he might have framed his sister for something so he could have Legolas to himself? :eek: Anything is of course possible.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I would have to disagree that anything was possible. The notion that Elmerf would become as beautiful and beloved as Legolas is surely absurd. Legolas is a notorious control freak and egomaniac in Mirkwood, thus he would hold Elmerf back.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Eomer, do you truly believe that Legolas would hold back his beloved hare from receiving the kind of love that any good pet deserves?

I must say though, it is entirely possible that Elmerf was one mean little bunny... he was just notoriously better at covering it up that Caerwen was. I heard a rumor that one time, Elmerf attacked Aragorn's dog... it was all hushed up, but it was never forgotten, which, apparently is why dogs chase rabbits these days.

Fea

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Fea, it all adds up doesn't it? :)

And yes, I truly believe in a dark and maniacal side to Legolas' nature. It comes out in its most devilish form when other 'cute' things are present.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Ah yes, Legolas' inferiority complex... he's pretty, yes, but can't bare to be in competition with other pretty things. Why do you think you never see him near Arwen? I suppose that would mean that his hare was a somewhat plain looking hare, as opposed to the breathtakingly gorgeous image I had conjured in my head. Poor little Elmerf...

Fea

[Nimrothiel]

*Ah yes, Legolas' inferiority complex... he's pretty, yes, but can't bare to be in competition with other pretty things. Why do you think you never see him near Arwen?*

True, in point of fact he spent most of his time before the Council of Elrond sulking in his room and trying all sorts of beauty tricks to make himself look far better than her. Unfortunately for him, Merry and Pippin picked up on this and some of his beauty products were switched with some rather nasty substances. His mudpack for example...well, maybe I shouldn't go into detail on that one. :eek: He only volunteered to get away from Arwen so he could be the prettiest and to make Merry and Pippin's deaths look like an accident. Obviously he later repented of the latter, but this is due to the fact that Hobbits are so cute and irresistable that even Elves cannot resist them. Note: That is the official version as recorded in Legolas' biography; however, it's rumored that he forced the Hobbits to replace all of the pilfered beauty products and treat him to a weekend at a fabulous spa. There are also rumors that somehow one of the mudbaths contents were switched with something most foul, and it was at this point that Legolas and Gimli departed to the Grey Havens to begin working on their ship to depart from Middle-Earth forever.

[Oddwen]

I was reading the Stupid Ring parody the other day (www.stupidring.com), and I couldn't help but notice this:

He pulled his long white knife from his belt and, dismounting quietly, crept aside as a plump white rabbit hopped out of a nearby shrub. Moving too quickly for mortal eyes to catch, he whipped the knife back and forward. As it flashed through the air towards the coney, he thought he glimpsed a bit of gold.

(Leg: Gold?)

He trotted, satisfied, towards his catch. Grabbing the coney by the ears, he grasped the golden handle of the long knife and pulled it out, wiping it clean on the grass. ... Sweeping his hair aside (it was definitely blond, now), he resheathed the two knives on his back and carried the dead rabbit, a traditional guest gift for Lord Elrond, back to his horse. He remounted (the saddle was still there, unfortunately) and trotted on towards Rivedell.


What does this new development mean? Do the writers of StupidRing know something that we yet don't?

[wilwarin538]

I wonder if they do. Its funny that someone who owns a rabbit would kill one. Maybe because it was white and he only likes likes multicouloured hares like Elmerf. ;)

[Oddwen]

Or perhaps Elrond just liked to be reminded of the larger variety of hare, rather than hearing of the (supposedly) mythical mini-bunnies.

[wilwarin538]

Wow, its been forever since anyone has posted here on my thread, it might have something to do with my extremely loonngg absence from the BD, but no worries it is only do to the fact that i have homework a mile high its not because i dont LIKE the BD. But i have to be truelful i kind of forgot about my thread and was reasently reminded of it whan my sister received a rabbit teddy bear for christmas and i heard myself yell:

" Oh my Goodness, Elmerf!"

So now even though it has been 3 days since christmas i have finally gotten the chance to return and i would love for our discussion about Legolas' amazing hare Elmerf to continue.

Sincerely,
Wilwa ;)

[elronds_daughter]

Shall I?

I recently came upon this in a stack of papers I found lying about...

By Eru, what has gotten into Elmerf? He's been into my closet, into everything, chewing things up! But I love the cute little fellow anyway.

Perhaps I have stumbled onto 'The Personal Journal (Regarding Elmerf) of Legolas Greenleaf, Esq.' My, my....

[wilwarin538]

Where about might that be?? Perhaps if you looked alittle closer in this "about" you could possibly find us some ore extremely valuable information.

So I supposed that this little journal entry from Legolas tells us what Elmerf likes to eat. The contents of Legolas' closet!!! Strange.

Thoughts???

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Have you heard of Elmerf's hare heir? 'tis said in Untold Tales: Stories of Middle-earth That Should Never See the Light of Day that Elmerf had a son with Glorfindel's Beleriandic cottontail, Yosmitë--she has red hair, which is rare for the Middle-earth rabbits, but common in the Beleriandic breed--which they . . . errr . . . contrived before the Council of Elrond. The son was unnamed, but some surmised that it passed West when Glorfindel's horse was stolen by Arwen.

The color of the hare is still a conundrum. Perhaps I can dig up some quotes tomorrow, and let the Downers decide for themselves.

You suck at this.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

But it has been told that the culture of alcohol and rowdiness which dominated Mirkwood (read The Hobbit) so influenced Elmerf that he turned into a true rogue, a devilish rapscallion; and now we speak of his son? Is there any inkling as to what kind of father Elmerf was?

[elronds_daughter]

Where about might that be?? Perhaps if you looked alittle closer in this "about" you could possibly find us some ore extremely valuable information. I believe it was in an open briefcase at a seldom-frequented bus stop....


which they . . . errr . . . contrived before the Council of Elrond I seem to remember that.... Only vaguely, as it was something I would have liked to forget...

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Eomer, Elmerf left Yosmitë after their . . . ummm . . . meeting. So he was an absentee father.

Which might be better for their son, seeing the qualities of Elmerf you mentioned.


I seem to remember that.... Only vaguely, as it was something I would have liked to forget... (elronds_daughter)
:eek:

~*~

Here is the quote regarding Elemerf's heir's hair colour:

In the second MS of unpublished Appendix G: Of Many Other Things, there was a slip of paper which contained a story of Frodo while he was compiling the Red Book. I did not know what my father's intention was regarding this tale, so I left it out in previous publications. But now it seems (with the discovery of Legolas' hare) that it must be made public.
The narrative is as follows:

My uncle Bilbo left a note in the second part of the Red Book. It contains an astonishing account of his stay in Rivendell during our departure. The queer thing was, it narrates of a rabbit. I've heard of Legolas' hare, but a rabbit in Rivendell? Surely Elrond must have known of it (and disposed of it thereafter). The tale seems unfit to keep in the Red Book, so I shall write it in another book (which shall be purple).

The Purple Book of Secrets

I was sitting in the Hall of Fire; not sleeping, mind you; when furtive footsteps awakened me (I mean startled). I looked around, and I saw something in the corner. What it was could not be seen clearly, for it was swathed in shadow, in the middle of which was a form, of hare-shape maybe, yet smaller.
'Hullo there, little friend,' I said to it, but it made no answer, instead its red eyes glared at me. The shadow about it reached out like black fur. I was scared, but I stood firm.
'You must be frightened. Come on, now, don't be scared of Bilbo,' I said, as I coaxed it to come out. It stepped forward slowly and suddenly its black fur were standing on its end. It scampered past me and ran into Glorfindel's room. I made my way to the door, and put my ear to it.
'There you are, $@#&!' I heard him say. I did not think that this creature, if hare it is, had so fell a name.The hare, perhaps, is not of the tiny breed, which Elrond in his folly did not believe exist. It was, perhaps, the offspring of Legolas' hare, Elmerf. If so, I do not know what creature would bear such a bunny.
Then in the back there was written 'rumours of Glorfindel's hares will reach Frodo's ears.' I do not know if there is a connexion between the two, but if there was, I fear what it is.
Untold Tales

[wilwarin538]

Eomer, Elmerf left Yosmitë after their . . . ummm . . . meeting. So he was an absentee father.

Yosmite? Is that the name of Elmerf's son? Interesting. RED eyes? Well very creepy. The purple book, I believe I had read something from it once. I can't remember what. But when I do I will inform you.

I still cant belive I started this thread it went way off the topic I had originally made but it has turned out amazing. Thank you everyone for your information.

~*Wilwa*~

[Oddwen]

Now 'tis indeed strange, for reading the Unstarted Tales the other day I found this passage concerning Elmerf's and Yosmitë's leveret:

Suddenly into view came a white horse...running swiftly.
The rider's cloak streamed behind him, and his hood was thrown back; his golden hare streamed behind him in the wind of his speed. (emphasis mine)

Now indeed, could this be the hare of which Nilpsy spoke of? And if it was indeed

Streaming behind him in the wind of his speed
could that indeed mean that the hare was flying, and had wings?

[elronds_daughter]

<Sarcastic Gasp> Oh, no! Another "wing-or-not" debate!! Huzzah! I think the hare was winged. Other opinions? ;)

[wilwarin538]

A winged hair oh my! Didn't expect that. But Oddwen I don't understand how that could possibly be talking about Elmerf? It sounds to me like it was talking about a horse, a flying horse. I don't believe that Elmerf or Yosmitë had wings.

But I do remember what it was I had read from the Purple Book, I believe this happened when the dwarves asked Bilbo to climb one of the Mirkwood trees to see what he could see:

As I looked around high up in that tree looking at the black emperor butterflies I heard a strange noise. I turned around but saw nothing so I went down afew of the dark branches when I saw it. Sitting there nibbling at the tree leaves was a GREEN hare. It was by far the strangest looking bunny I have ever seen.

Could this be Elmerf or maybe a relatiive? I would think that if the rabbit had wings Bilbo may have mentioned it, but perhaps he didn't think it was important or maybe he didnt notice. My real question is how on earth did a hare get up a tree? Maybe that would explain the possibility of wings? This also answers what the mirkwood hares look like and what they eat.

I do hope I didn't answer all the questions or else there will be no point to my thread. :eek:

Cheers
~*Wilwa*~

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I have sat in trees before but I am not winged. ;)

[wilwarin538]

I know Eomer but hares dont have thumbs so how could it climb? ;)

[Oddwen]

Why Wilwarin, I do believe that you have found evidence of the Tree Hares. The reason that they aren't mentioned anywhere else is that they were gone by the time of LotR and the War of the Ring. (Much like the "Tra-la-la-lally" tree elves.)


But Oddwen I don't understand how that could possibly be talking about Elmerf?
Nay, not Elmerf himself, but his offspring.

And has anyone found evidence that hares have long, pointed ears? I mean, yes they do now, but did they then and there?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I think the hare was winged. Other opinions? ;) (elronds_daughter)
I think it was not winged.

I have not yet read this Unstarted Tales yet (perhaps it got lost on its way to the Philippines), but from the quote Oddwen provided, the wind speed is clearly metaphorical.

Besides, if hares had wings, why then couldn't they fly to save themselves?

. . . and many hyenas, lemmings, and hares fell to their doom with Aragorn on the steep banks of the Entlaundromat . . .
Purple Book

I'll get back to Wilwa's question when I have read the Purple Book again. It's been so long since I last read it.

EDIT: Wilwa, Yosmitë was Elmerf's . . . partner. A weird name, I know, but it was named by the Dark Elves who gave it to Glorfindel as such. In their tongue, I think it means "varmint". Or something like that.

[wilwarin538]

Thank you Nilpaurion for clearing that up. I must not have read your post very thouroughly.

Hyenas and lemmings, interesting. :p

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

In regard to elmerf's disposition as a father, do you think that it could be possibly related to King arthur and Mordred? If you look at it logically Tolkien has a very many references to King Arthur in his books. Avalon and Valinor so on and so forth.
The Lost Tails mentions the hatred between Elmerf and his son. Elmerf (if we are assuming that he came from a long line of hares) would have felt the stability of his nation and position as Supreme ruling Pet of Mirkwood threatened if a strange hare from a distant land came and presented evidence that he was the rightful 'hare' of Elmerf. He probably was a very downtrodden hare being the pet of Legolas, (I support the argument that Elmerf was probably a slightly ugly hare given the fact that Legolas wouldn't have wanted a prettier pet than himself.) and would have taken it to heart that this foreign hare came and presented himself as hare.
I mean Elmerf had worked so hard from keeping his domain safe from the evil hares of Dol Guldur to the south that he would have consulted his council right away. Then the council probably would've brought in a fortune teller because as we all know, hares are very superstitous. The fortune teller would've then prophesied the downfall of Elmerf. He would've been reminded of the poor unfortunate hares that lost their lives in the downfall of Numenor, to whom he was distantly related and he wouldn't have wanted to bring such a tragedy to his people. He would've therefore done what any honarable hare would've, because above all else I believe that Elmerf was an honarable hare, he challenged his son (name? I seem to have forgotten) to a duel.
Here I don't really know the specifics of hare fighting styles, dependent on whether or not they have wings, this can be discussed. But after that we all know what happens, Elmerf was taken by Yosmite to the Holy Isle to be cared for by the Valar, namely Orome as he was the creator of hares, and to return when the hares of Middle-Earth desperately needed him. Now I'm pretty sure this happened during that sticky transitional period after the ring was destroyed and maybe even into the beginning of the fourth age, but I might be mistaken. Elmerf's son then took control over his smaller band of hares and they moved into the south of Mirkwood and gained prominence over a large domain, where there ancestors are still living today.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Although I wonder: why would the Valar accepted Elmerf into ther own realm, considering:
. . . it has been told that the culture of alcohol and rowdiness which dominated Mirkwood (read The Hobbit) so influenced Elmerf that he turned into a true rogue, a devilish rapscallion . . . (Eomer)

Then again, Ainur are weird.

And prone to mood swings.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Yeah, that's not too unlikely. Mandos was a bit of a rascal in his free time too, don't you know?

[wilwarin538]

his son (name? I seem to have forgotten)

I don't believe he had a name Abercrombie, maybe that's why you forgot it. ;) But I'm sure , since he became a hare ruler that he must have had a name and Im sure someone will be able to find it. :D

I do have one question though. Did Yosmite stay with Elmerf or return to Mirkwood to be with her son? I also wonder if Caerwen, Elmerf's twin sister may have tried to take Elmerf's place instead of his nameless son, I think she did try something and that may be the cause of her being shunned to guard a cave.

Thoughts???

~*Wilwa*~

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

Come now we really must find a name for this usurping hare. I need to inscribe it into the annals of the Hare History of Mirkwood.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Abercrombie, my friend, I have found what you seek while sifting through The Unstarted Tales, but what was before unknown is that Elmerf's son did not try to usurp his father's place... Elmerf had a brother:

And so Elmerf departed his much loved homeland in much sorrow, but for a cause he deemed crucial. Fighting with his big and pointy teeth, the hare travelled to far distant lands with his beloved Legolas, leaving his Mirkwood power in the hands of his brother. Abusing the priveleges of heirdom, Princejohnamir made a dispicable attempt to sieze permanent control, being thwarted by the bravery of loyal hares (many of which were outlawed), and the last minute return of Elmerf from battle.
I hope that helps?

Fea

[misty's hopping mt.]

Well that explains the first attempted usurp of the throne of the Supreme Ruling Pet of Mirkwood, but if you read Abercrombie's first post on the previous page, there was a final battle to the death between Elmerf and his son and the question posed was what is the name of this hare, his son? I personally have a feeling it started with M because Tolkien might have wanted to keep the name in accordance with Mordred, from King Arthur. Just an intuition.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I had been reading a secret text in the Purple Book, called Athrabeth Elmerf ah Legolas, or the debate of Elmerf and Legolas. Mostly it involves discussions of hairstyles and colours, and ends in a catfight over who's the greatest, but every now and then they say something that almost makes sense.

But having not finished my reading and analysis, I shall post more elaborately tomorrow.

:rolleyes: Oh, boy. The Prince of Procrastination makes a promise to post tomorrow. I'll bet half my life he can't make it.

Considering the precedent on New Movie Script (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=5249&page=6), yes. I'll chip in three pieces of mithril.

[Assasin]

Orlando Bloom's hair is dark. Legolas' WIG is blonde. :rolleyes:

[misty's hopping mt.]

no it his hare as in rabbit not hair.

[Assasin]

Oh. Well, I would think his hare would be brown.

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

EUREKA! I have found it at last! Mallapin is the name of Elmerf's son, the hare that caused the sundering of the hares of Mirkwood and lead the remnant of his people south and defeated the remaining evil hares of Dol Guldur that the White council missed.

So family tree looks like this right?
Father?
'
Caerwen & nameless brother& Elmerf=Yosmite
'
Mallapin

Sorry the family tree didn't work quite as well as I had hoped I'll fix...

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

Alright I hope this works... http://www.fakeurl.com/elmerf

[wilwarin538]

Thank you very much for that very nice tree Abercrombie, its beautiful. ;)
Mallapin, that sounds right. I like that name very much. So Elmerf's brother took the throne, I suppose he needs a name also, and about Elmerf's mother, I can't remember her name but, I believe she was Galadriel's hare for a time, but she favoured Celebrian and left Middle-Earth with her. :D

~*Wilwa*~

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

Just keep the names coming folks (I don't have time to look them all up). I will update my website as is necessary. It will be our history within a history. The part Tolkien never got to write becuase he was too distracted with the possible ending of the world. ;)

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Ahem. Anywhen, here was the promised analysis of the Athrabeth. It was very hard to analyse, as it was written rapidly in pencil, and the manuscript is blurred at many places.

Wow. He's really posting it on time.

[Elmerf: ]‘[ I ]n the great ages after, Men shall see thee, and say “I lyk legolas more, hes soooo hot!!!!!1”, yet me they will not know, for I have done no mighty deed, save be coloured [?purple].’
‘Know then,’ said Legolas, ‘that thou they will see, and thou they will know, for the fates of the Rabbit-realms of Mirkwood are entwined with the continued life of the “What colour is Legolas` hair?” thread, and thus is the wrath of the Wight stayed upon the frivolity of those Men. And they will hold thee in reverence.’
‘But my fur is [?purple], and my tail cottony, and thus I fell to evil ways. What then will they say if they knew that the Rabbit-realms were mine no longer, that [?my] . . . . . * took them from me by force, and that I am left for a wandering waif, with an androgynous Elf and a snoring Dwarf for company?’
‘What is “androgynous”?’ and Legolas took a threatening step towards the hare.

__________
* The word is very blurred, and the only part clear is the ending “–er”. [Editor’s note]

Athrabeth Elmerf ah Legolas, Purple Book

There are many things to say about the work. Christopher Tolkien dropped the analysis on the entire text, saying ‘I have not the ability, nor the temperance, to analyse the fashion sense of the two in discourse.’

But here we have a possible solution to the usurper’s question. The “-er” part might help, as it excludes his son from the takeover, as Fea had said. But what else ends in “-er”? Brother? Sister? Father? Mother? Driver? Butter? Deer? Are the deer of Mirkwood prone to staging coup d’ etat?

On a final note, the “snoring Dwarf” Elmerf and Legolas had for company could very well be Gimli, which means that perhaps Leggy’s Dwarven “friend” joined them in exile after the ousting of Elmerf.

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

Excellent Find NIL, thank you immensely for sharing that with us. So this means that Mallapin did not usurp the throne from Elmerf, but Mallapin did in fact inherit the throne, one way or another. Right? No disagreements?

So then who did take the throne? Fea's post does lead me to believe that it was indeed his brother (Prince Johnamir? Is that his name?) that stole or tried to steal the throne from Elmerf. Did Elmerf ever reclaim his throne before Mallapin became king? I mean after he went off and had his adventures with Legolas did he return to Mirkwood and oust (Johnamir?) from the throne?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Princejohnamir, my friends. I was led to believe that it is pronounced "Prin-say-ja-nom-eer", but the reliability of The Unstarted Tales is occasionally questionable.

Fea

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

page updated http://www.fakeurl.com/elmerf

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I have just purchased from swindler.com all the writings of Tolkien regarding the hares of Middle-earth from 1917 up to his death. I am now currently deep in analysis, and, I'm telling you now: it ain't gonna be pretty.

I may be back with a post tomorrow.

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

Nilp?

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

The funny thing is, I still am not finish with the analysis. The material is too vast, and my time is too short, what with the ending school year and all. So there.

I'll try to do it now, and hopefully come up with a complete report within the week.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Within the week?

The scoundrel...

Anywho, I stumbled upon a fairly odd collection in a local bookshop: A copy of Tolkien's letters which was published in Holland. It is mostly the same, however some bits are missing and some new pieces are inserted throughout. He goes into lengthy detail regarding a spat he had with a butcher.

Anyway, the main point of interest here is that he made direct reference to the question posed in the title of the thread. Legolas' hair was a luscious golden brown. I, for one, am willing to suppose the total credibility of this seemingly bizarre edition and accept the claim.

But go ahead and talk about Elmerf. The little critter is a far more interesting character than, say, Aldarion...

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

OK, so accounts of my posting on time might have been exaggerated. So sue me.

Or not. He once killed his entire clan over pizza.

Hush, Alice.

Enedwaith, forgive me for not posting the aforementioned analysis, but, as Eomer will attest, I have spent months tracking down traces of Wargish influence in Filipino culture.

But now, with my timetable seemingly clear--though that could be deceptive--I will proceed with full force on the analysis of the texts.

Hopefully,
Nilpaurion Felagund
Slayer of the Uchiha clan.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

The Wargs of the Brown Lands tell tales of a mysterious ghost, dancing in the form of a hare.

Pardon me for getting excited but I feel a need to reconcile some legends here. What can Wargs tell us of Elmerf and his treacherous dynasty?

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

What can Wargs tell us of Elmerf and his treacherous dynasty?
Presumably nothing, since none of those whose eyes ever rested upon Elmerf lived to tell the... tail. Why else, do you think, would all legends and accountings of him be so vague and inconclusive?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

And who claimed that 'none of those.....' ever lived to tell? Whoever said that was almost definitely schooled in the traditional anti-Warg methodology.

I will investigate further. Don't believe everything you read in this thread. :p

[The Saucepan Man]

The Wargs of the Brown Lands tell tales of a mysterious ghost, dancing in the form of a hare.Did it have bright eyes burning like fire? :p ;)

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Um.....I think that's a joke but I'm too slow-witted to understand it. :rolleyes:

[Mithalwen]

Eomer .. The Saucepan man tells, I believe of a ghostly vision of a beast of the order Lagomorpha (though possibly of the Syvilagus rather than Lepus genus) recounted by Simon, the Garth-Uncle, which could be related to the incident quoted. Certain atmospheric conditions were necessary for the vision to be seen (high wind in the trees, fog, strange glow in the sky). However it was possible that it was merely a dream. This story was very well known when I was a child but maybe the younger generation have not heard of it?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Sounds like a cracking yarn; my research must evolve; to the English countryside I go! :D

[Mithalwen]

You should try for the Hampshire Berkshire borders for there the legend originated though the Garth-Uncle is not a native of that place.

I must study this thread more fully since clearly it touches on my own theories regarding Isildur's Hare...

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

You know, I've heard tales that Elrond had twin hares. The question, I suppose, is whether that was common, and what shape their ears were. Were they elongated? Were they slightly pointed, or softly rounded? Or even more disturbing... did they flop?

[Mithalwen]

Ah well Elrond did keep Isildur's Hares for specific puposes, I believe ... but that tale was told in the Old Fogey's clubroom... :D

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I was under the impression that he had custody of Isildur's hare-looms. Did he ever weave with them, just to keep them in good shape? And what exactly was their use in the Third Age... The questions simply keep arising.

[Mithalwen]

check out page seven of the Tolkien Coming of Age Club 2 thread..

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

On Hare Colour

A poem on the Ringarë 3021 issue of Candy and Eldar casts some serious doubt on the purple-hare theory.

A, Rabbit-hair, gilded and fair,
Silver pens of Míriel.
O, Menel, a car made by hand,
Ach! a red palantír, Ariel!
O, Galadriel, in your wrath,
Fans are lost, like Linda Thorn.
Narf! a meara! See! Enough! I, R. Gon.

The “R. Gon” at the end of the poem helps to identify who the author is. A majority of scholars believe that it was none other than Aragorn, son of Arathorn, who wrote this verse. Some surmise that he wrote the staves after missing the hares he played with in Imladris as a child. None of these bunnies survived past the Fourth Age, for it is believed that Elrond deep-sixed those that remained in Rivendell before he left for the Havens.

In the poem we see the variety in colours of the rabbits of Rivendell: gold, silver and red. But no purple was mentioned. Why? Surely, Elmerf’s purpleness would stand out.

A clue to this mystery can be found in the Súlimë 2974 issue, published a month before Elmerf was first seen with purple hair. There this advertisement was published:

Tired of your boring, pathetic existence?
Then get a life! Set yourself apart!
Start with a new hair colour!
Try PUMPERNICKEL PROUDFOOT’S
SPECIALLY FORMULATED PURPLE HAIR DYE!

Order now! Limited slots available!

In the box of this product was written a warning that it would take one month before the dye took effect. On Narië 8, 2974, a month after the Candy and Eldar issue containing the advertisement was published, more than two hundred people from Minas Tirith were executed for “hair colour unbecoming of a canonical Númenórean descendant.” Later it was discovered that on the same day, Radagast the Brown disappeared from Rhosgobel, although a purple-haired “cousin” of his appeared in the said area for two years before the return of Radagast, after which the “cousin” was nowhere to be seen. Make what you will of that.

The discovery of these startling pieces of evidence in the back issues of Candy and Eldar casts serious doubt on the natural purpleness of Elmerf’s hair. Next time I shall publish my reports on the coup d’ etat in Mirkwood, gleaned from Tolkien’s infamous essays On Harey Stories and Shoelaces of Fëanor.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

Candy and Eldar is a monthly randomness magazine published in Dol Amroth.

Just had to make that clarification.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

It's been more than two months. Have all lost interest in Elmerf and the Hares of Mirkwood, or are you impatiently awaiting my promised (and long-delayed) account of the coup d' etat in Mirkwood?

Uh, right. We'd be interested in that. :rolleyes: The nerve . . .

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Coup d' etat, I assure you.