Dwarves of The Last Alliance

[The Perky Ent]

It is said that during The Last Alliance, Elves and Men united to fight evil. Although they were the main forces, Tolkien also states that there were beasts, and even dwarves, although their numbers were few. We know that the dead Elves, Men, and Orcs could found in the Dead Marshes, decaying under the water. My question is, what happened to the dwarves? Are they hidden in the marshes? Because of their height, do they decay faster? Did they all survive and go back to their halls? What is the fate of the dwarves! And for that matter, what is the fate of all those not of Elves or Men who participated in The Last Alliance?

[Kuruharan]

Those who survived the war went on a lived out their lives, whatever they happened to be.

The dwarves probably did not bury their dead in the marsh (or what eventually became the marsh). Since nothing is said about it one must assume that they found some way of interring the deceased in stone as was the usual custom.

[NightKnight]

I agree with Kuruharan. They must have been dragged away by the surviving dwarves. And if they were buried on the battlefield, later Dead Marshes, they probably decayed just as everyone else. The "bodies" that lay there weren't real, remember?

As for the other creatures, they were probably eaten by birds or wolves or whatever hungry animals were nearby.

[Findegil]

Dwarves do lay their dead in stone or rock and not in earth. That would mean that Dwarves would be found in the dead marshes since they clearly were of muddy earth.
If to many dwrves were killed in a battle, so that they could not bury them in proper maner or take them away from the battle-field dwarves would bunr their dead. Thus I think after the war of the last aliance the Dwrves made a burning of their dead companions.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Kuruharan]

I actually don't know about that.

The way it is described after the Battle of Azanulbizar, it sounds like something unique in their history.

We don't know exactly the relation of the battle lines to the mountains. It is possible that the Alliance was close enough to the mountains for the dwarves to follow their usual customs.

Of course, while Sauron's dwarves might not have been upset about the matter, the Longbeards might not have been too happy about burying their kin in the Mountains of Mordor.

[Zebedee]

Dwarves may have simply not fought in the region where the marsh sprung up.

[Gil-Galad]

There was probaly a morgue chamber in Khazad-Dum... though it was not enitrely sure where the dwarves fought, they probaly helped with the building and stuff, like when Osgiliath was beseiged, maybe some dwarves came down and started fortifying it? probaly under Elvish supervison...who knows?

[Kuruharan]

While you are probably right that the dwarves did a lot in siege warfare during the War of the Last Alliance, I doubt there was much in that area that the elves could teach them.

[Gil-Galad]

well i was thinking of ideas cause there was no indication of dwarvish building-type things in Osgiliath, so i would think that they worked with elves and gondorian builders...

[Zebedee]

Considering that dwarves are master builders, I do not think that men or elves would have needed to work with them.

[Gil-Galad]

Its not that they were master builders, its how there building techniques could be incorperated into Gondorian-style buildings...

[Zebedee]

Perhaps the dwarves directed the men in building.

[NightKnight]

I don't think the dwarves ever were in Osgiliath, or even Gondor, since it would have been a shorter way for them to go straight to Dagorlad. Or maybe they met up with Gil-Galad somewhere.

[Gil-Galad]

They might have just releived the stress of the Gondorians and allowed the elves and men to fight at Dagorlad while the Dwarves hole the Morgul Vale path

[Gothbogg the Ripper]

Well, I don't reckon they'd leave their dead lying on a battlefield if they could help it, Dwarves were quite proud of their heriteige so wouldn't the do everything in their power to give their fallen comrades a noble end, so maybe that's why there were no Dwarves in the Dead Marshes? :confused:

[Fingolfin II]

Good point, Gothbogg. This tendency of the Dwarves' nature that you highlighted reminded me of how the Dwarves carried off their Lord, Azaghal, in the Nirnaeth, without regard for the battle.

[Morsul the Dark]

Well if tolkien says however that there were very few dwarves then why wouldn't it be plausible that the dwarves are in the marsh I mean the marsh isnt that small they could be scattered you know one here one there so on so forth

then again, unless someone knows the reason they hate dwarves, maybe elves dont get along with dwarves because they abandonned battle to bury their comrades and therefore the elves partially blame the dwarves for the horrifying number of deaths in that battle...just a thought

[Kuruharan]

Well if tolkien says however that there were very few dwarves then why wouldn't it be plausible that the dwarves are in the marsh I mean the marsh isnt that small they could be scattered you know one here one there so on so forth

Because it just wasn't the way they did things.

then again, unless someone knows the reason they hate dwarves, maybe elves dont get along with dwarves because they abandonned battle to bury their comrades and therefore the elves partially blame the dwarves for the horrifying number of deaths in that battle...just a thought

Doubtful. The reasons for Dwarven/Elven antipathy lie back in the First Age well before the Last Alliance.

[keghobbit]

the hatred between elves and dwarves comes from the first age when I think there was a bloody war between the two. Also there is probably some resentment because the elves were supposed to be the eldest, and the dwarves were made before them.

[Gil-Galad]

keep in mind that the dwarves of Moria had nothing to do with the downfall of Doriath, seeing how they were already farther away, and the dwarves of Nogrod attacked Doriath, not Belegost of Moria, so i would guess its really the elves that had the bigger grudge againest the dwarves, and the dwarves just gave up and said "find, be that way" but i guess the Dwarves helped man most during LA, but with the "Scatha incident", the Dwarves proberly hated Man and Elves, so the 3 races grew apart from each other

[The Saucepan Man]

... maybe elves dont get along with dwarves because they abandonned battle to bury their comrades ...How can you abandon a battle to bury those fallen in the battle ...? :confused: :p ;)

[mithrandir094]

'Ello. im new here, but though i would jump in.

To agree with Gil-galad, the dwarves of Kazad-dum were the closest branch to the elves, especially the elves of Hollin.

[Glirdan]

Well, I don't reckon they'd leave their dead lying on a battlefield if they could help it, Dwarves were quite proud of their heriteige so wouldn't the do everything in their power to give their fallen comrades a noble end, so maybe that's why there were no Dwarves in the Dead Marshes? :confused:


I'd have to agree with Gothbogg on this one. They probably carried off all those who died and buried them in proper dwarf fashion. Then again, who knows. They might have only taken those of higher lineage and buried them in their fashion and left the rest to be taken by the Dead Marshes in later years.

[Gil-Galad]

well if they took them off in later years, you would think the bodies would be already decomposed... another theory i came up with was that maybe the dwarves didn't fight at Dagorlad, but after, and participated during the siege of Barad Dur, so maybe only the elves and men fought in the marshes, but when they broke through into Mordor, then the Dwarves came in to help, that would explain there being no dwarven bodies in the Dead marshes

[Kuruharan]

maybe the dwarves didn't fight at Dagorlad

No dice. Dwarves are specifically mentioned as having fought there.

All living things were divided in that day, and some of every kind, even of beasts and birds, were found in either hose, save the Elves only. They alone were undivided and followed Gil-galad. Of the Dwarves few fought upon either side; but the kindred of Durin of Moria fought against Sauron.
-Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age

Since Dagorlad was the great battle of the age we have to assume that the dwarves fought there.

Really people, I think you are making this much harder than it has to be. Tolkien specifically stated that the dwarves laid their dead in stone. He gives us the one exception to this rule and emphasizes its uniqueness. There isn't any mention of dwarven corpses in the Dead Marshes. We have to assume that the dwarves found some means of honoring their burial traditions whether they shipped the bodies back home for burial or buried them in the Mountains of Mordor.

I would suggest that perhaps the number of dwarven slain was possibly so small as to render either method relatively easy...except it is very difficult to get a grip on the number of possible participants in this war. The armies on both sides were obviously very large, so the Longbeards could potentially have sent as many as 10,000 warriors and this could have been accounted "few" in comparison with the numbers of men and elves in the army (although this is perhaps an extreme example to illustrate the problems in the question).