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Elianna
02-06-2005, 03:09 PM
Often when Tolkien is writing about the Hobbits he'll throw in that they perform some part of their culture "as a rule."
Their faces were as a rule good-natured rather than beautiful. Not very expensive ones, as a rule, and not so lavishly as on this occasion; but it was not a bad system. as a rule dwarves said little and hobbits asked no more. Only a few words of it are now, as a rule, remembered.

My interest has finally been piqued. Why use this phrase? For it to be so prevalent, surely Tolkien had some idea behind it. What's it say about Hobbits that they do so many things "as a rule?"

The Saucepan Man
02-06-2005, 06:07 PM
When I saw your post, Elianna, it immediately struck a chord with me because you are absolutely right. It is an expression that Tolkien uses frequently. And your observation that it is used particularly in connection with Hobbits is very astute.

"As a rule" is an expression, still frequently used in the English language, to denote "generally" or "usually". I imagine that it was an expression that Tolkien used a lot. It is a colloquialism of sorts, a phrase which is used in every-day conversations in the familiar surroundings of the pub or post office. It therefore seems rather well suited to the Shire.

In narrating The Hobbit, Tolkien uses many such turns of phrase to speak to the reader in language with which he or she is familiar, and this translated over to the beginnings of LotR. It seems a natural phrase to use, when describing Hobbits, as the Shire and its inhabitants are, to my mind, intended to be familar to us as readers. They provide us with an anchor in this new world with which we can identify.

However, although it might seem well-suited to the pubs and burrows of the Shire, it would seem out of place on the plains of Rohan or in the Halls of Gondor. It would grate with the epic style used when describing such places in LotR. I could not imagine, for example, the Rohirrim being described as "fierce and, as a rule, fey in battle". Nor would it be fitting to describe the Gondorians by saying that they were "as a rule, rather proud and noble."

So, being a phrase which was presumably oft used by Tolkien, he naturally used it when describing those characters with which he wanted his readers to identify, but was naturally disinclined to use it when addressing the more epic narratives in his tales.

Keeper of Dol Guldur
02-07-2005, 02:22 PM
Tolkien using the term "as a rule" suggests that these sorts of unwritten codes, these usual sorts of things, have over time just made themselves, based on common sense and living peacefully in the Shire.

Everything in the Shire, even the rules, evolved naturally and didn't really need to be enforced or treated overzealously.

We get a great feeling of how the Shire operates.

That contrasts very, very starkly with how the Shire operates during the "Scouring of the Shire", under Saruman's lackeys.

Hobbit's mention "it's the rules" every five minutes, as if they have to repeat these things over and over for them to make sense, as these rules came quickly and from foreign sources, and conflicted with the Hobbit's common sense.

You'll notice Tolkien didn't use 'as a rule' at all once they returned home. It could have been coincidence, but even if it is, you still get the same feeling of restrictedness and discomfort.

Mithalwen
02-10-2005, 12:11 PM
Keeper ... while you make some interesting points, I think you have slightly misinterpreted the expression "as a rule". In current usage, the first sense of rule that comes to mind is probably to mean a "regulation" and while the words are similar they were probably not completely interchangeable since we have the expression "rules and regulations". But the sense I think Tolkien is using it is as a measuring device - equivalent to ruler. A yard-rule was a measuring stick a yard long.

I think it may be a contraction of the old phrase " as a rule of thumb" which refers to measuring things in thumb widths on the same principal as the foot and hand (which did become "fixed" units of measure). Because thumbs vary in size but not so much that they are useless as a term of reference, the expression came to mean "usually" as SpM says. It implies that the information is a general guide rather than absolutely precise.

In the phrases Elianna has quoted, I always think that Tolkien sounds a bit like a guidebook. A reason maybe he usually uses it for hobbits may be becuse they are a "strange" species. He invented them and he needs to describe them whereas most readers (at least English ones) would have an idea about what dwarves and wizards look like. Elves are more problematic because of the confusion with "itty bitty fairies"

This kind of expression has probably fallen out of use somewhat since the modern world requires us to be more specific rather in the way time was standardised with the development of railway networks.

The Saucepan Man
02-10-2005, 12:18 PM
This kind of expression has probably fallen out of use somewhat since the modern world requires us to be more specific ...I would say that, as a rule, the expression is still fairly widely used. ;)

Mithalwen
02-10-2005, 12:23 PM
Yes ... but among the young folks? ;) I am all for preserving such things and having confused Americans by saying that had been in their country for a fortnight and had been to Chicago twice was sore tempted to add that I would remain for a sennight.... :D but that might have contravened the Geneva convention...

Formendacil
02-10-2005, 12:40 PM
Yes ... but among the young folks? ;) I am all for preserving such things and having confused Americans by saying that had been in their country for a fortnight and had been to Chicago twice was sore tempted to add that I would remain for a sennight.... :D but that might have contravened the Geneva convention...

I'm a 17 year-old Canadian, and yet I am very familiar with "as a rule", and everyone I know would get what I was saying, were I to use it, even if they weren't familiar with the history of the phrase.

Hence, I think that "as a rule" is still an easily understood phrase, and one that is still used, not infrequently, in North America if not in Europe.

EDITED to remove some embarrassingly arrogant statements, which, fortunately for my humility, are still visible in the below quote.

Mithalwen
02-10-2005, 01:23 PM
But still, I think that "as a rule" is still an easily understood phrase, and one that is still used, no infrequently.

*Sigh*... I was merely speculating because of the evidence that it was clearly not not understood. And by American I was refering to citizens of the USA and this was based on actual incidents. I did not say that noone in America understood these words - in fact I only realised there was a problem when someone started interpreting.

Keeper of Dol Guldur
02-10-2005, 07:49 PM
I'm familiar with "rule of thumb", and I see the connection. But even so, a "rule of thumb" is a LOT less rigid a measurement than using an measuring instrument, like a ruler.

Rule;

1. Governing Power, authority.
2. A prescribed direction for conduct, a regulation.
3. The body of regulations prescribed by a founder.
4. Usual, customary course of action or behavior.
5. A generalized statement that describes what is true in most cases.
6. A standard method for solving a problem.
7. A subordinate regulation governing a particular matter.
8. A straight edged strip, wood, metal, etc, used for measuring lengths.

Anyway, I think Tolkien, who was a tremendous etymologist and a Professor of English, knew all the connotations, interpretations and meanings of the word rule, and I still think it makes sense.

elronds_daughter
02-10-2005, 08:00 PM
Tolkien generally referred to Hobbits as if they could be easily transplanted to the twentieth century and not be noticed, excepting their size, of course.

- Apologies if that makes me sound the arrogant know-it-all. I tried to state in a factual manner what I've learned. -

(An aside Note: I'm doing a report on Tolkien and learning a great many things which I never knew before and of which I would still be ignorant if not for the joys of English class.)

Mithalwen
02-12-2005, 10:33 AM
I'm familiar with "rule of thumb", and I see the connection. But even so, a "rule of thumb" is a LOT less rigid a measurement than using an measuring instrument, like a ruler.

Rule;

1. Governing Power, authority.
2. A prescribed direction for conduct, a regulation.
3. The body of regulations prescribed by a founder.
4. Usual, customary course of action or behavior.
5. A generalized statement that describes what is true in most cases.
6. A standard method for solving a problem.
7. A subordinate regulation governing a particular matter.
8. A straight edged strip, wood, metal, etc, used for measuring lengths.

Anyway, I think Tolkien, who was a tremendous etymologist and a Professor of English, knew all the connotations, interpretations and meanings of the word rule, and I still think it makes sense.


Well I think we can agree on definition 5 :D

Elianna
09-08-2005, 04:53 PM
The phrase "as a rule" is used by the members of the Notion Club.

So the general idea is that the phrase is used to show that Hobbits are more modern?

drigel
09-09-2005, 06:57 AM
To me it connotes (intened or not) a sense of depth to the subject of the sentence. Well, at least when the sentence is describing a social or cultural subject. Sort of a historical depth device. We do something, we figure out which is the best way to do this something, and so we wind up doing something this way "as a rule".

Earendilyon
09-09-2005, 07:19 AM
Tolkien using the term "as a rule" suggests that these sorts of unwritten codes, these usual sorts of things, have over time just made themselves, based on common sense and living peacefully in the Shire.

Everything in the Shire, even the rules, evolved naturally and didn't really need to be enforced or treated overzealously.

We get a great feeling of how the Shire operates.

That contrasts very, very starkly with how the Shire operates during the "Scouring of the Shire", under Saruman's lackeys.

Hobbit's mention "it's the rules" every five minutes, as if they have to repeat these things over and over for them to make sense, as these rules came quickly and from foreign sources, and conflicted with the Hobbit's common sense.

You'll notice Tolkien didn't use 'as a rule' at all once they returned home. It could have been coincidence, but even if it is, you still get the same feeling of restrictedness and discomfort.


Although I also read the phrase 'as a rule' to mean 'usually' as already pointed out by others, I do like the point you make. There's of course already the strong description of the differences in the Shire pre-WotR and post-WotR; this adds a bit to the picture. Pre-War, things are done 'as a rule': habitually. After the War, things have to be done because of rules, or even Rules. Pre-War, the Hobbits do as they please, post-War they are ordered around by Lotho and Sharkey c.s.