American Readers(and others too)

[Morsul the Dark]

Perhaps it is only because I live n Rhode Island but when Reading TH for the first time I was amazed at how many "cakes" the dwarves ate because I pictured a cake as a birthday cake not a (as Im assuming was meant) a biscuit did anyone else due to dialects misinterpret something as funny or unusual?

I put this here because although about the books it is a not serious

[Lalwendë]

I thought a biscuit in the US was something you poured gravy on (we pour it on chips, but then your chips aren't big chunky greasy yet strangely tasty things are they?....). What the dwarves ate would I suppose be equivalent to cup cakes in the US? Like birthday cake, but about small enough to put in your mouth all in one go. ;) (I hasten to add, you would only put them in your mouth in one go if you were trying to snaffle them before your mother catches you stealing from the pantry.)

[Shelob]

Morsul The Dark
when Reading TH for the first time I was amazed at how many "cakes" the dwarves ate because I pictured a cake as a birthday cake not a (as Im assuming was meant) a biscuit

I assumed that by 'cake' it ment something which was easy to pack, lasted long, and was generally usefull in that sense (I can picture it but not describe it, sorry...though I guess an american biscuit would be close...maybe more of a scone in terms of texture) I just kind of ruled out stuff like birthday cakes because it would be really crumbly and therefore not much use for traveling or anything as well as being rather a strange thing to eat on a regular basis...

Lalwendë
I thought a biscuit in the US was something you poured gravy on (we pour it on chips, but then your chips aren't big chunky greasy yet strangely tasty things are they?....).

After much thought, and trying to sort out in my ever-confused-mind the american definition of 'biscuit' yes, american biscuits are something eaten with a meal (I'm used to eating them with soups and stews but one could easily pour gravy on them). As to the chip thing British Chips are like American French Fries (not thin little McDonalds ones, but thicker like steak fries...) and an American Chips are like British Crisps (though we've nothing nearly as cool as Walkers Crisps).

Morsul The Dark
did anyone else due to dialects misinterpret something as funny or unusual?

I can't say that I ever have, I mean I probably have, I just can't think of it now. I do have to Thank You though Morsul the Dark, Now I'll forever have the image of the Dwarves sitting around eating birthday cake after birthday cake in my mind.

[mark12_30]

Well, maybe not birthday cakes, but you know, pound cakes or so. Yeah, great big things. I just figured Tolkien was showing what massive appetites dwarves had. They ate Bilbo out of house and home.

But that was a good thing, becaues if they hadn't, hen while Bilbo was away the Bag End pantries would have sat and festered for two YEARS eeeeeewwwwww.

[Nimrodel_9]

What the dwarves ate would I suppose be equivalent to cup cakes in the US? Like birthday cake, but about small enough to put in your mouth all in one go. (I hasten to add, you would only put them in your mouth in one go if you were trying to snaffle them before your mother catches you stealing from the pantry.) Me, steal a cupcake before my mother catches me? Never....:D

Can't say that I thought of it being a whole birthday cake! :eek: More of a cupcake. Let us hope so! Ouch! My tummy would hurt if I ate a whole cake! Hmmm... I'll have to add that to my to do list. ;)

[AbercrombieOfRohan]

maybe it was a wedding cake.... (even more enjoyable to think about dwarves carrying around)

[Lalwendë]

I keep laughing thinking of a Dwarf scoffing a huge birthday cake, which is not entirely without the realms of possibility; it certainly wouldn't be for a particularly greedy Hobbit. ;) No, but cake definitely means a sweet, small and very tasty cake indeed. If a little sponge cake, they often go by the name of buns or fairy cakes, and are possibly closest to cup cakes, but they come in infinite varieties; some have cream in them, some custard, some are in fact made with pastry, but to a man (or rather, to a cake) they are all sweet and exceedingly good (http://www.britsuperstore.com/acatalog/Mr__Kipling_Cakes.html).

A biscuit (http://www.britsuperstore.com/acatalog/McVities_Biscuit.html) is also sweet and incredibly nice, especially the Chocolate Hob Nob. I suppose the closest American equivalent is the Cookie, which in the UK usually describes a type of biscut, usually a very sweet one stuffed with chunks of chocolate and nuts, the kind of biscuits which make people exclaim when you produce them with a pot of tea. Some also like to dunk biscuits in their tea, an odious habit which means you get sludge at the bottom of the cup. Blee. Though I have comitted treason in saying it.

The closest things to American biscuits I suppose might be crackers (http://www.britsuperstore.com/acatalog/Biscuits_Carrs.html) , which we tend to have with cheese or smoked salmon or other savoury things on top. But if it's something which accompanies a meal then the closest thing might be Yorkshire Pudding (http://www.deliaonline.com/cookeryschool/howto/how_0000000026.asp), commonly served slathered in gravy with roast beef on Sundays. But this must not be confused with Bakewell Pudding (http://www.billingtons.co.uk/REC/jan03.htm), obtainable fifteen miles from Yorkshire, and which like most things with the word 'pudding' in them is sweet. The only other savoury pudding is Steak & Kidney Pudding.

It is actually quite funny, because I'm sure Tolkien was not playing with his words in this instance and trying to confuse matters linguistically. But by happy accident it does conjour up images of dwarves and Hobbits gorging on vast portions of food. Was anyone in America confused by the idea of eating fish with chips then?

[Rimbaud]

Black pudding, Lal. But that's fairly grim stuff. Just to confuse the issue, Jaffa Cakes resemble UK biscuits, but are probably really cakes. I suggest going to a Nice Cup of Tea and a Sit-down (www.nicecupofteaandasitdown.com) for a full and frank discussion of such matters.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Thanks ever so much. Before, I'd pictured Bilbo's cakes as being scones (*drools*)... now they are forever birthday cakes. Actually, besides scones, I also pictured such things as coffee cakes, banana nut bread, and the "lembas" that I found [and subsequently lost] the recipe for one day online. Tasty stuff, if a bit rich and filling. But then that is the point, isn't it... :) Fea

[Encaitare]

I always thought of them looking like... well, little cakes. Like pieces of cornbread or something, or like the top half of a muffin.

I thought a biscuit in the US was something you poured gravy on

Heh. I was not even aware that we had biscuits. Must go on a biscuit quest now.

[alatar]

Being 'Merican, I was rather disappointed when I found that the 'tea biscuits' that our company president (she's foreign with English roots) purchased for us as gifts were these little crackery-like things. Biscuits, eaten with butter, jelly, honey, gravy or whatever, are like 'buns' and are a bit larger than a computer mouse. Typically these are served warm, and if they are of the right variety, you can make a meal of them (eating two or three).

I never thought that any of the cakes were of the 'birthday' size, except for any cakes eaten at Bilbo's party.

[Lalwendë]

Scones are actually quite dry and dull in comparison to cake in Britain. You often see women turning down a cake dripping in cream and chocolate in favour of a dry, fat free scone. The only time they match up to cake is when they are served up in a Devon Cream Tea; in this treat the scones are slathered in strawberry jam, clotted cream and possibly butter too. Now I can well imagine Hobbits enjoying those. But yes, you can rest assured that when Hobbits serve up cake then they are serving up something truly delicious. ;)

I determined to find out where my idea of American biscuits comes from and it turns out they are a Southern thing. I found this website (http://www.rad2020.com/biscuits_and_gravy.htm) which has pictures which would repel the most gluttonous Hobbit.

EDIT: And we do have muffins too. They used to be a type of bread roll, the oven-bottom muffin, a traditional Lancashire thing, but the term now refers to rather large individual cakes stuffed with such things as chocolate chips or, my favourite, blueberries and cream cheese. ;)

[alatar]

Scones are actually quite dry and dull in comparison to cake in Britain.

I've actually made scones, and I avoid cooking anything more complicated than mac'n'cheese out of a box. The recipe that I follow includes the use of heavy cream, and so the ones produced from the same are not dry and are rather 'heavy.' A good indication of a food's fat content is inversely related to the amount of the same that my wife will consume.

[Morai]

I determined to find out where my idea of American biscuits comes from and it turns out they are a Southern thing.
I wouldn't say that, I don't live in the South (far from it actually) and I eat a biscuit everytime I eat stew, sometimes with breakfast. Usually I'll slice it down the middle horizontally, then dab on some "veggetable spread" (cause butter or margerine would be 'sinful' where I live) and honey, or just some salsa when I want to "liven things up." I love biscuits. :o

I never get the "chips" confused with " American potato chips" because well, I eat "fish and chips" at resturants all the time. (For those that are still confused: that's hallibut and resturant size french fries.)

For me it was the "conies and taters" (sorry if it's mispelled.) I never eaten a rabit of any kind, so I had to read that part a couple times over to determine that Sam was in fact cooking a rabbit stew. As for taters, I had to remind my self of "tater-tots", and I can't really describe them, except that they're great with ketchup.

[Rumil]

One unusual cake which Bilbo offered the dwarves, apart from the standard fare of apple tart and mince pies was seed cake.

I haven't encountered seed cake for years though I vaguely remember my gran making it long ago (or perhaps - shock horror - it was 'bought in' :eek: ). It was quite a light dry sort of cake in 'large cake format' around half a loaf of bread in size, containing seeds of unknown provenance, perfect for consumption with a nice cuppa. Naturally the dwarves, as us Brits used to in ages past, accompanied it with ale. Methinks an experiment is in order if I can find anywhere that still makes it. Any ideas from 'cheeky Brits'?

(Rumil sudenly feels peckish and heads for the larder........)

[Neithan]

and are possibly closest to cup cakes, but they come in infinite varieties; some have cream in them, some custard, some are in fact made with pastry, but to a man (or rather, to a cake) they are all sweet and exceedingly good.
That description sounds almost like donuts.
I determined to find out where my idea of American biscuits comes from and it turns out they are a Southern thing.
Well "buscuits and gravy" is primarily a southern tradition but it is eaten elsewhere. Personally I just put butter on mine.
For me it was the "conies and taters" (sorry if it's mispelled.) I never eaten a rabit of any kind, so I had to read that part a couple times over to determine that Sam was in fact cooking a rabbit stew. As for taters, I had to remind my self of "tater-tots", and I can't really describe them, except that they're great with ketchup.
Well that kind of thing depends on where in America you are from. The word "taters" was not the least bit foreign to me and rabbit stew is not uncommon among people who hunt rabbits.

[radagastly]

It's all Lembas and Cram! (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=4527) (there may even be a seed cake or two in there, though I didn't find one with a search.)

By the way, biscuits and sausage gravy can be very good for breakfast, though I agree those pictures looked pretty unappetizing, all kind of pale and gloopy.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

in this treat the scones are slathered in strawberry jam, clotted cream and possibly butter too.
*drools again* These are the scones I was talking about. Or even... my mum and I made scones last summer for a garden party and the best ones had blueberries in them. Slathered with butter while still hot? *dies*

As for biscuits... the best way the only way to eat a biscuit is sliced horizontally and spread with butter and strawberry jam. Although there are some instances where biscuits are quite good served with a chicken/vegetable/gravy concoction. Very hearty and delicious.

As for taters... I have issues with taters. I always picture Sam cooking up the tater tots that my school's cafeteria likes to serve with cheeseburgers. The best way to describe them is as small (a square inch, or thereabouts) ball of shredded potato with [somehow] a crispy outside. Now don't get me wrong, I love taters... but it's just hard seeing Gollum holding one up to the light saying "What's taters, precious?"

Fea

[Nimrodel_9]

I determined to find out where my idea of American biscuits comes from and it turns out they are a Southern thing. What? We have biscuits here in Utah. They are like a roll. You eat them with soup, or with jam and butter. You can dip them in gravy too.

By the way, biscuits and sausage gravy can be very good for breakfast, though I agree those pictures looked pretty unappetizing, all kind of pale and gloopy.That's good stuff! :D

Gollum with a tator tot. Heh heh. :)

[Morai]

As for biscuits... the best way the only way to eat a biscuit is sliced horizontally and spread with butter and strawberry jam. Although there are some instances where biscuits are quite good served with a chicken/vegetable/gravy concoction. Very hearty and delicious.
But of course....(though if you like salsa, I highly suggest spreading it on the biscuit like butter.)
American biscuits are very similar to an Egg-Mc-muffin minus the egg and ham (shudder!) and they are much tastier and easier on the stomach.

As for taters... I have issues with taters. I always picture Sam cooking up the tater tots that my school's cafeteria likes to serve with cheeseburgers. The best way to describe them is as small (a square inch, or thereabouts) ball of shredded potato with [somehow] a crispy outside. Now don't get me wrong, I love taters... but it's just hard seeing Gollum holding one up to the light saying "What's taters, precious?"
Exactly what I was talking about, still no one I know eats Rabbit stew, and yes...I refuse to reveal my location, unless you can figure it out yourself from all my inside jokes.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

American biscuits are very similar to an Egg-Mc-muffin minus the egg and ham (shudder!) and they are much tastier and easier on the stomach.

English muffins, those are called, but do they even have them in England? Quite excellent with... you guessed it... butter and strawberry jam. Or apple butter. I never pictured Dwarves and Hobbits with English Muffins though... regular muffins... blueberry muffins and such... Now those I can see a hobbit eating a dozen of in one sitting.

Fea

[Rimbaud]

Indeed we do, sliced in half, toasted and buttered, quite delicious. The 'English' prefix was once not necessary, but my choice of companions now requires it. A muffin, English or otherwise, is still not a patch on a crumpet, though.

[Lalwendë]

Shall I confuse things even further? Very well... ;)

To me, it's neither a muffin nor an English muffin. It's an Oven Bottom Muffin. And it is a distinct item to your everyday bread roll/bap/barmcake/breadcake, as they are cooked on the bottom of an oven so that the outsides get a bit blackened. And they have a little dimple on top. The ones in McD's are tiny in comparison. Lovely with loads of melted Lancashire cheese on them, or maybe some greasy sausage and bacon.

Crumpets (snigger) are of course delicious, yet even here there is confusion. Some Yorkshire folk call them pikelets, but to others in Yorkshire, a pikelet is specifically a larger and flatter type of crumpet. I think the origin of the first definition comes from those who did not like to utter the word 'crumpet' as it seemed vulgar. Even more confusingly, to an Australian, a pikelet would signify what most Brits would call a Scotch Pancake - which is nothing like a real pancake as these are quite small and spongy in texture.

I can well imagine a lot of Hobbits sitting about the fireside in an evening, toasting forks at the ready, muffins and crumpets speared on the ends... ;)

What is apple butter though? It sounds nice, almost like Lemon Cheese.

[Lyta_Underhill]

Why is it that I always read the threads about food on the one day a week I abstain from all solid food? I'm sure there's a simple psychological explanation... :rolleyes:

I will not withhold my location, as I've told it before--Southern Middle Tennessee, heart of the high fat biscuits and gravy region of the US. All my husband's relatives are fond of hillbilly methods of cookery, which inevitably involve extremely high levels of fat and grease. Strangely enough, most of them are about average weight (at least in the local area) and in some cases, they are underweight! However, they have an insidious scheme of pushing food on unsuspecting (and ever-hungry!) hobbits like me! Luckily, I find pictures of biscuits and gravy like those linked by Lalwendë above rather repulsive in themselves, i.e., the visual component. It is the smell and the taste that sing their Siren song to be repented at leisure about 3 hours later... therefore, I have learned to top the traditional Southern biscuit with about 1/4 the amount of gravy seen in those pictures in order to avoid the well-known consequences!

As for scones, I can understand perfectly why they would be dry, since it is an irresistible invitation to dipping them in the accompanying beverage. My favorite dipping delicacy, however, is lightly almond flavored chocolate chip biscotti, homemade by me! These are dry and crunchy until dunked, and indeed, might break teeth if they are not properly consumed! I guess this accords with Rimbaud's Tea and a Biscuit in the "biscuit" category--I love that site's delightful "Taxonomy" that nowhere mentions "scones," but has rather precise definitions based on Venn Diagrams and other "set theory" type devices. Teehee! In itself it sounds like a conversation over tea!

Well, must dash and tend to business in the interval between Elevensies and Lunch (not to say I'll actually be eating anything!).

Cheers!
Lyta (fasting hobbit)

P.S. Even more confusingly, to an Australian, a pikelet would signify what most Brits would call a Scotch Pancake - which is nothing like a real pancake as these are quite small and spongy in texture. I think these are also known as "cheap diner pancakes" in the US, served in places where the help is overworked and underpaid and they don't have time to make batter, but instead slap frozen cakes into a microwave...bleah! ;)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

What is apple butter though? It sounds nice, almost like Lemon Cheese.
Although I've never heard of Lemon Cheese... Apple butter (http://www.spiceadvice.com/favoriteRecipes/recipeContent/APPLE_BUTTER.html) is very nice. I rather think that hobbits would like it (and perhaps even they did like it, since it is a very natural and yummy (and simple) concoction). Now apple butter is not to be confused with Vegemite, which in some instances, it looks (http://grudnuk.com/vegemite/) like. I assure you that Vegemite does not have the sweet apple-cinnamon taste of apple butter. ;) You know... with hobbits' fondness for ale, perhaps they had Vegemite (http://www.vegemite.com.au/index.cfm?fuseaction=VegemiteDiscovery.welcome) in the Shire. Can you only imagine?

Fea

[Lyta_Underhill]

Lemon Cheese? Is that like lemon curd? Or is it really cheese? I can't imagine comparing apple butter and vegemite, though! Worse, accidentally substituting vegemite for apple butter on some poor unsuspecting fool's biscuit! I can imagine that there are some hobbits who worship the taste of vegemite, just as there are those who adore Limburger cheese...yes, I can imagine a few hobbits meeting after hours and furtively discussing the merits of Green Hills vegemite over Frogmorton vegemite, or some such thing. Perhaps it is a taste that goes with beer, which I also don't care for much. Not much of a hobbit, am I? ;)

Cheers!
Lyta

P.S. Fea, I think that vegemite looks a little greyer than apple butter, having had occasion to compare them at first hand, but that could be visual editorializing!

[Lalwendë]

I think it was the colour of the gravy in those pictures that got to me, it was unnatural, gravy ought to be brown. And the only allowed 'extras' ought to be a bit of onion or some mushrooms. But if it tastes good then I'd be willing to try it...

Lemon cheese (http://www.recipezaar.com/103796) is almost like Lemon Curd (http://www.buybritish.net/store/customer/product.php?productid=18589&cat=272&page=2) , but it's thicker and more sugary, and you almost always have to get home made stuff. It's really good as the filling in a big sponge cake. I like the look of apple butter though. When you say 'apple cider' in the US I've been led to believe you mean non-alcoholic apple juice as opposed to the full strength, intoxicating, madness-inducing cider we drink here? I'm glad that Hobbits tend to stick to ale, as excessive cider drinking leads to strange behaviour. ;)

Vegemite is like the bunny rabbit slippers in comparison to Marmite (http://www.marmite.com/) , which is more like a pair of 18 hole Doc Martens in the taste stakes. I think Hobbits would definitely opt for Marmite, especially when serving up tea and toast for a load of dwarves. Though these foreign Bucklanders with their fancy talk and fancy ways might go for Vegemite. I hear they even bring a few jars with them when they come backpacking around The Shire.

[Celebuial]

I didn't even know that Americans didn't mean the same thing when they talked about biscuits!!! I think that Tolkien was talking more on the side of fruit cake and more healthy savoury stuff though, kinda more like bread I s'pose. I acn see Hobbits munching on sponge cakes though, it would account for their size. All this talk of food is making me hungry... Apple butter, hmmm. Interesting idea. I might give it a try. I hate lemmon curd (I don't think I'll give lemmon cheese a try), and Marmite, and crumpets for that matter. Scotch pancakes on the other hand: Mmmmm!!!! *gorges on a whole pack of pancakes before coming back*

I think your idea of 'tater tots' sounds like hash browns. I thought that hash browns were just called hash browns in the US though...

I don't know anyone that eats rabbit stew either, but I didn't have a problem understanding connies and taters as my Granddad used to torture me with recollections of his mum cooking just such a stew for him. Yuck!

*sighs* I'm not feeling so hungry now.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I thought that hash browns were just called hash browns in the US though...
Hashbrowns would be if one took a tater and smooshed it all up and remove the seasoning. They, however, are also good with ketchup. What do you think hobbits would have thought of ketchup?

Fea (who's still trying to get her hands on Vegemite)

[Morai]

I think your idea of 'tater tots' sounds like hash browns. I thought that hash browns were just called hash browns in the US though
As Fea said, their different. Hash browns, of course, are basically shredded potatos that are fried and eaten with breakfast (usually with sasuage, bacon and/or eggs.) Tater tots are smaller, round and more like resturant french fries except, I still don't know how to put it into words.

What do you think hobbits would have thought of ketchup?
They would have found it very strange, especially since Ketchup comes in bottles instead of jars or bowls. The taste, would most likely be foreign, because I don't think hobbits had tomatos, but I could be wrong....

[Lalwendë]

They would have found it very strange, especially since Ketchup comes in bottles instead of jars or bowls. The taste, would most likely be foreign, because I don't think hobbits had tomatos, but I could be wrong....

I don't see why Hobbits should not have had tomatoes. They had pipeweed, and tobacco, correct me if I'm wrong, is native to the Americas so why should they not also have tomatoes. They do of course also have taters, which are also a native plant to the Americas, but now a staple in the UK and Ireland so we've almost forgotten where they came from, like I almost did just then! Though I imagine Hobbits might make their tomatoes more into a rich sauce than a ketchup, or just eat them raw with big slices of ham and cheese.

[Elennar Starfire]

As for taters... I have issues with taters. I always picture Sam cooking up the tater tots that my school's cafeteria likes to serve with cheeseburgers.
Ah, Napoleon Dynamite...
"Get your own dang tots!"

What? We have biscuits here in Utah. They are like a roll. You eat them with soup, or with jam and butter. You can dip them in gravy too.
Except I think rolls tend to be fluffier than biscuits, in general.

I think your idea of 'tater tots' sounds like hash browns. I thought that hash browns were just called hash browns in the US though...
Tater tots are sort of like hash browns, but the potato is shredded into smaller bits and rolled up in little balls before frying. Nasty, greasy things.

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

Rolls tend to be made with yeast, so they rise and are fluffy. Biscuits aren't. At least... that's my experience.

I think the most hilarious thing about this thread is that I can vividly imagine a dozen or so hobbits from different parts of the Shire sitting over a cuppa and eating baked products with arguably different names.

Baggins: Ah, what an excellent biscuit.
Brandybuck: That's no biscuit, that's a crumpet.
Boffin: Not where I come from it's not! Our crumpets ain't nothin' like yer scones.
Baggins: That's no scone, it's a biscuit!.
Boffin: Well, I call it scone.

*Grin*

Fea

[Lalwendë]

I think the most hilarious thing about this thread is that I can vividly imagine a dozen or so hobbits from different parts of the Shire sitting over a cuppa and eating baked products with arguably different names.

:D Excellent, yes! Picture the scene at Bilbo's birthday feast. Up to the table comes Rosie Cotton bearing a basket of bread rolls to be served with the soup. "Bread rolls," she shouts. "Who wants a bread roll?"

"Nah mate, no bread rolls for me," says a cheeky Bracegirdle from the West Farthing. "But aye, I'll have a barm cake."

"Tch," says the person next to him, in a broad Michel Delving accent. "Them's bread cakes, reight."

Rosie looks bemused but carries on to the next group of Hobbits. But a good natured argument has started up by now between the two Hobbits. "It's Ginnel, that path between two smials", says the first one. "Nayow! It's a jennel", says the second.

Meanwhile, Rosie gets to a group of lads from Buckland, who are all half cut with ale. They are sitting near the opening to the tent and it's a bit chilly. Rosie shivers a little. But the lads are quite content sitting there in their shirt sleeves, in fact, they look a little red-faced and hot. "Way ay!" shouts one. "Got some stottie cakes for us have you?"

Rosie wanders off to get herself a pint and thanks her lucky stars she's not serving up cakes or biscuits. ;)

[Celebuial]

I think Rosie would have a problem in Leicester. When I go somewhere else and ask for a cob people look at me funny, but it's what we call bread rolls. See, you don't even need to go out of the country to get all confused about food names!!!

Hmmmm. In the film Hobbits had tomatoes, so I assume they did. Although I do remember a debate about this on one of the extended additions extras. I must rewatch the liot and find out!

I still thibnk it'd taste weird to them though. It's not reallt made of tomatoes is it? It's mostly sugar! YUCK!

[Morai]

When I go somewhere else and ask for a cob people look at me funny, but it's what we call bread rolls.
Interesting, I don't know about there, but here we have something completely unrelated we call '"corn on the cob", which is just corn that hasn't been removed from...well-the cob. :o (kinda like tomatos or grapes sold still on their original vines.) There is a law where I'm from that you can't wash corn on the cob before you eat/cook it, though no one really follows it. :D

I still thibnk it'd taste weird to them though. It's not reallt made of tomatoes is it? It's mostly sugar! YUCK!
Actually it's more tomato paste, sugar, and spices (perhaps vinegar?) Good point though.

Ever noticed the difference between spellings such as "colour" and "color?"

[Celebuial]

We have corn on the cob too. I notice the spelling a lot. I read a lot of American Literature so I'm kinda used to it now, and since I'm really bad at spelling anyway this doesn't really irritate me. It's quite funny though when there are whole words and phrases that I find that we don't have in England. I don't know any Americans so I normally just get confused!

[Nuranar]

Ooh, on the subject of corn...

To all you Brits (and any others), what is corn? To me, corn is the vegetable Morai was talking about. But I've heard rumors that it's something else in Europe? I know that the first settlers over here had no idea what the Indians were growing - now called maize, perhaps? I think it was a good bit smaller than the large sweet corn we've got now, but it's the same sort of thing. Do y'all have cornbread, for example?

Or maybe I've just managed to really confuse myself. It's not unprecedented. :p

[Rumil]

Hi Nuranar,

American corn always seems to be what we'd describe as maize, whereas corn in Britain can mean any cereal grain, like wheat or barley. Paradoxically corn-on-the-cob is indeed maize too, though off the cob it'd be called sweetcorn.

We don't grow much in the way of maize in the UK - too cold and wet probably.

Meanwhile cobs can be bread rolls, which are baps, but can also be ponies or small horses, or male swans I think!

There are probably dozens of different words for breads and hundreds for cakes, maybe even hundreds and thousands ;)
if you include puddings as well and thats just in English, let alone Welsh, Gaelic, Manx and Cornish.

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

To jump back several days, Rumil said: I haven't encountered seed cake for years though I vaguely remember my gran making it long ago (or perhaps - shock horror - it was 'bought in' ). It was quite a light dry sort of cake in 'large cake format' around half a loaf of bread in size, containing seeds of unknown provenance, perfect for consumption with a nice cuppa. Naturally the dwarves, as us Brits used to in ages past, accompanied it with ale. Methinks an experiment is in order if I can find anywhere that still makes it. Any ideas from 'cheeky Brits'? I'm no cheeky Brit, but I am a New Englander, where I think we may be closer to it than most Americans. ;) And more, I believe I know your seed cake. My mother makes something fitting your description nicely. It's a loaf shaped cake, rather yellow inside with a brownish crust all around, slightly crumbly, faintly lemony, and filled with poppy seeds. We call it, sensibly, poppy seed cake, and it looks something like this (http://www.geocities.com/ironbarktree/poppyseedcake.jpg).

Mmmmm. A favorite of mine. And definitely what I picture Bilbo serving the dwarves. I understand his reluctance completely.

Sophia

[Edit] Excuse my ignorance, Rumil, but what is Manx? As far as I've always known it's a breed of cat? Is it a language/dialect as well?

[Eruanna]

Wasn't it George Bernard Shaw who said that America and Britain are two countries divided by a common language? :D
This thread proves him right!

Apart from all of the differences in spelling and misconceptions about various foods; there is one thing that has always puzzled me. I like to cook and have often wanted to try recipes from America. However, I haven't yet managed to find out, exactly how much is a 'cup'?

Sophia, your Seed cake certainly sounds like the one my mother used to make.

For those looking to try Vegemite...don't bother, 'tis but a pale shadow of the delight that is Marmite :cool:

[Sophia the Thunder Mistress]

I believe a 'cup' is equivalent to a half-pint. ;) Pretty sure you Brits know how much that is.

[Formendacil]

[Edit] Excuse my ignorance, Rumil, but what is Manx? As far as I've always known it's a breed of cat? Is it a language/dialect as well?

I'm neither a Noldorin scribe named Rumil, nor even a Brit, but I think I can answer this question.

To the best of my knowledge, Manx refers to the Isle of Man, a largish isle situated between Great Britain and Ireland, and home to an indigenous, Celtic-style culture. I also believe that the tail-less Manx cats come from here.

[Lalwendë]

The Isle of Man also has a strong Viking heritage, and it has the oldest parliament in the world, the Tynwald (http://www.tynwald.org.im/). Manx is not a living language in the same way as Welsh and Irish Gaelic, which are used on a day to day basis as a first language by many native speakers, but it is undergoing a strong revival, as is the Cornish language.

Culturally, the Isle of Man is interesting with the influence of not only the Vikings and the English, but also two different Celtic cultures, Scotland and Ireland.

I wonder what they call 'cake' there? ;)

[piosenniel]

cake (http://homepages.enterprise.net/kelly/LIST/DICTIONARY/DICTIONARIES.html):

jannoo keeak ~ cake

keeak tey ~ tea cake

berreen ~ cake
berreen charvish ~ seedcake
berreen corkey ~ oatcake
berreen Elveishagh ~ Swiss roll
berreen ghryle ~ girdle cake, slapjack
berreen mess ~ slabcake
berreen oarn ~ barleycake
berreen ooyllagh ~ apple tart
berreen ruggyree ~ birthday cake
berreen soo thallooin ~ strawberry cake
berreen spiosit ~ spicecake
berreen spunje ~ sponge cake
berreen Vadeiragh ~ Madeira cake
berreen vanshey ~ bride's cake
berreen vashtee ~ christening cake
berreen volley ~ honey cake
berreen vreck ~ currant cake

[Morai]

Culturally, the Isle of Man is interesting with the influence of not only the Vikings and the English, but also two different Celtic cultures, Scotland and Ireland.
Kinda off topic (sorry) but I do have family there, as well as in England somewheres. Unfortuneatly, I seem to have more Japenese influence than Manx. The closest thing I can recall here that resembles a seed cake, is a rice cake. If you buy them in a store, they're round disk like things where the rice has been baked and fused together.

When I think of sponge cake, I think of those infamous, fattening, and cream filled Twinkies! :o

[Rumil]

Thanks for the seed cake pic Sophia, that's exactly the sort I remember. Maybe I'll have to go on a cake-related shopping expedition sometime soon.

Meanwhile pio, Lalwende and formendacil have answered the Manx question better than I ever could!

[Nuranar]

And thank you, Rumil, for the "corny" ( :rolleyes: ) clarification. (It was begging so hard I couldn't resist.)

Sophia, I love poppy seed cake! I'm hungry now...

Here's another cake question: Is "pound cake" the same all over? What about shortcake (as in strawberry)? Is there such a thing? We always use pound cake for strawberry shortcake - now that this thread has me thinking, it sounds strange. :eek:

[mark12_30]

Pound o' butter
Pound o' sugar
Pound o' flour
Pound o' eggs

= pound cake.

Modern recipes have varied, of course, but in the beginning, the above sufficed.

My mom the Mainer assures me this is so.

Do you think hobbits ate cake with their strawberries and cream?

[Mithalwen]

Being a sad bean counter, I can tell you that the difference between a cake and a biscuit is that when exposed to the open air a biscuit will go soft and a cake will go hard. So although a jaffa cake looks like a biscuit .. it is a cake...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A528040

[TomBrady12]

wow Sophia, your mother made that cake too? :eek: wierd...

I think up he-ah in the Noth, up he-ah in Waldo County Maine, we ah probibly the closest Americans to the Brits in the Country...Ayup

reading The Hobbit, I tend to think of cake being close to what Sophia showed, but I also think of things like Zucchini Bread, which is loaf shaped with a crusty exterior, and soft, but kind of heavy interior. It is spicey and sweet, i think it has a lot of cinnamon in it, maybe nutmeg, not really sure. Anyway, its good, similar to bananna bread i guess.

Nothing like corn on the Cob from Dickie Ingraham...ok im wandering :)

Anyway, all i really know is the hobbit makes me hungry!

Ohhh....another thing I might envision is brown bread, which, up here at least, is a traditional saturday night fixture to go along side baked beans.

TB12

[Lalwendë]

The closest thing I can recall here that resembles a seed cake, is a rice cake. If you buy them in a store, they're round disk like things where the rice has been baked and fused together.

We have rice cakes in the UK too. They are much beloved of women who sit and eat them at their desks with a look of pure disgust on their faces, and when you ask them what's the matter with their food they say "Ugh, I'm eating rice cakes, they taste horrible and dry, but they are low fat!." I like them myself, especially with tuna on them, and I always think they smell of struck matches. ;)

Do you think hobbits ate cake with their strawberries and cream?

No, strawberries and cream are so nice they need to be eaten on their own. But a cake after a dish of strawberries and cream would be nice, it would 'fill up the corners' perfectly. ;)

[mark12_30]

I think up he-ah in the Noth, up he-ah in Waldo County Maine, we ah probibly the closest Americans to the Brits in the Country...Ayup


As long as y'don't go too fah nothwest. Odd folk thataway. But not as odd as them newcomahs down by th' border. Yessuh. City folk. Lost in the Shiyah.


Ohhh....another thing I might envision is brown bread, which, up here at least, is a traditional saturday night fixture to go along side baked beans.

'Specially at pot luck suppahs. To be follow'd by Strahberry rubahb pie. Think Bilbo might like some?


Anyway, all i really know is the hobbit makes me hungry!


Pass the brown bread. All them dwarves'll take some.

And let's give Bilbo some o' that strahberry rubahb, and watch his face.

[Morai]

We have rice cakes in the UK too. They are much beloved of women who sit and eat them at their desks with a look of pure disgust on their faces, and when you ask them what's the matter with their food they say "Ugh, I'm eating rice cakes, they taste horrible and dry, but they are low fat!." I like them myself, especially with tuna on them, and I always think they smell of struck matches.
I wouldn't say struck matches, more like the taste and smell of stale cardboard. ;) Of course, I'm pretty sure good ole Sam Gamgee could make them taste better.
Here's another cake question: Is "pound cake" the same all over? What about shortcake (as in strawberry)? Is there such a thing? We always use pound cake for strawberry shortcake - now that this thread has me thinking, it sounds strange.
I can't say I ever heard or 'pound cake', though I've eaten my mum's delicious strawberry short cake. The cake itself reminds me of 'angel-food cake' (flavored with vanilla, while 'devils food cake' is rich with chocolate) then the cool whip and jucy strawberries.

[mark12_30]

...strawberry short cake. The cake itself reminds me of 'angel-food cake' (flavored with vanilla, while 'devils food cake' is rich with chocolate) then the cool whip and jucy strawberries.

We usually used angelfood cake with strawberries. Betcha hobbits would love that.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Special praise goes to mark/Helen for her valiant attempts to keep her posts Tolkien-related!! Let her serve as a shining example to all who post here! ;)

[Feanor of the Peredhil]

I always pictured cram as rice cakes.

Attend: hard (with a rather styrofoam-esque texture), dry, somewhat tasteless, lasts forever.

Picture, if you will, 13 dwarves and an unlucky hobbit living on naught but rice cakes. :eek:

Fea

[Elennar Starfire]

Except isn't cram supposed to be very filling? Because I could eat rice cakes all day and still be hungry (if I could stand the taste, that it).

[Celebuial]

I like rice cakes!!! Well Snack-a-Jacks at any rate.... I can't imagine Hobbits enjoying them though, although they could eat them allday without getting full. I s'pose that that would take the fun out of eating though...

I wonder if there is the same kind of divide between The Four Farthings with food? And what about words (just the other day I came across the word "coignes" and was assured that it referred to the British word "quoins"!)?

[Morai]

I like rice cakes!!! Well Snack-a-Jacks at any rate.... I can't imagine Hobbits enjoying them though, although they could eat them allday without getting full. I s'pose that that would take the fun out of eating though...
Quite the opposite of lembas eh? I think that if they ate rice cakes, it would most likely be with a mug of ale, because well...they drink it with just about everything.

[Morsul the Dark]

First off, let me acknowledge how dumb it is I remember this thread from 17years ago but struggle to remember my new coworkers’ names.

Now on to the point.

Handkerchiefs. Maybe it’s cultural but the only association I have with handkerchiefs is sort of low brow country folk. Bilbo having a handkerchiefs makes since because he’s so rural. Elrond having one is weird and when I read Bilbo borrowed Elrond’s handkerchief I laughed out loud for some reason. And I can’t quite articulate why. Im haven’t the darndest time seeing him wiping away sweat it just makes me chuckle. And blowing his nose? Out of the question Elves don’t get sick… and if they do don’t loan out the snot one to Bilbo…

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Up until quite recently, the Sixties (and among traditionalists the Eighties), no Englishmen who considered himself or aspired to be a gentleman would be without his handkerchief. This was separate from the one carefully folded in the jacket breast pocket, which was just for show;* the functional hanky was kept in another pocket out of sight, or tucked into the sleeve.

Paper tissues (i.e. Kleenex) simply didn't figure. One could say that the old guard were more environmentally friendly!
____________________________
*Unless handed to a lady who had spilled something on herself, usually with a restrainedly chivalrous flourish

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Perhaps it is only because I live n Rhode Island but when Reading TH for the first time I was amazed at how many "cakes" the dwarves ate because I pictured a cake as a birthday cake not a (as Im assuming was meant) a biscuit did anyone else due to dialects misinterpret something as funny or unusual?

I put this here because although about the books it is a not serious

Here (in Denmark) birthday cakes are not necessarily the norm, so I always assumed it was a cake of a more moderate size (like pastry or a custard pie). I was however thrown of by the outlandish nature of the cakes, one was translated as a "cumin cake" which I thought sounded dreadful.

[Pitchwife]

Up until quite recently, the Sixties (and among traditionalists the Eighties), no Englishmen who considered himself or aspired to be a gentleman would be without his handkerchief. This was separate from the one carefully folded in the jacket breast pocket, which was just for show;* the functional hanky was kept in another pocket out of sight, or tucked into the sleeve.
Although I'm not English and few things are further from my mind than aspiring to be a gentleman I use handkerchiefs to this very day (often washed together with my trousers because I forgot to take them out of the pocket). Paper tissues are reserved for periods of extreme runniness, hankies take care of everyday business.

As for the question of cakes vs biscuits (not to mention cookies), I've come to understand that this is a matter of severe contention between the English and the denizens of their renegade colonies;). Here in Germany we distinguish between kuchen and torten; kuchen are usually dry (except for fruitcakes and cheese cakes), whereas torten are topped with some sort of cream. A birthday cake in English (the kind of thing with candles on top) would in most cases be a torte in German.

Now Bilbo's cumin cake is translated as kümmelkuchen in my German Hobbit, which does sound strange. Spontaneously I would have said it's probably a kind of cracker (ha! another category!), but it could also be something akin to Alsatian flammkuchen (flatbread usually topped with sour cream + other ingredients, all baked together, similar to pizza) or zwiebelkuchen (a kind of quiche topped with onions and usually flavoured with caraway seeds, which is not the same as cumin but related, I believe).

Trust a culinary topic to draw me out of Entishness (Ent-ity?)!

[Galadriel55]

As for the question of cakes vs biscuits (not to mention cookies), I've come to understand that this is a matter of severe contention between the English and the denizens of their renegade colonies;). Here in Germany we distinguish between kuchen and torten; kuchen are usually dry (except for fruitcakes and cheese cakes), whereas torten are topped with some sort of cream. A birthday cake in English (the kind of thing with candles on top) would in most cases be a torte in German.

Pitchwife, I love you. :D You have just opened my eyes on why the Russian words for "pie" and "cake" don't really match up to "pie" and "cake" - a phenomenon which confused me for years. That is because the word for "cake" migrated there via Italian and German torte and has nearly the same sound and meaning, leaving the likes of fruit cake and carrot cake and other un-creamed cakes for "pie". You have just enlightened me to an etymological discovery, and that pretty much made my day. :D