Join the CbC discussion!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Have you read posts on the Chapter-by-Chapter discussion and not dared to participate among the experts? Or did you start earlier and lose track somewhere down the line? Have you been unable to keep up with rereading LotR for the discussions? Then this is a good time to jump in and join us there!

This week we begin with Chapter 1 of Book 4, over halfway through TTT. We now join Frodo and Sam on their journey to Mordor, leaving the others and their part of the story behind. I'd like to encourage you to read the chapter and share your thoughts with us - what's important to you? What touches you? Do you remember reading it the first time and how you felt then? You don't have to be an expert to write down your impressions; your point of view is unique and enriching for all others who read it.

I look forward to many interesting posts!

[davem]

Will it last? Will we get to The Grey Havens (let alone to Aragorn & Arwen)? I know the last chapter provoked a long discussion but (& I think this may have been my fault) it did get a bit off-topic & most of the posts seemed to be unconnected with the events of the chapter itself! We're nearly half way through the week of our discussion of The Taming of Smeagol & currently have FIVE posts!

Looking at the CbC board we not only seem to be getting fewer & fewer posts with each chapter (generally speaking) but also fewer & fewer views.

Thinking back to the fate of our HoME Chapter by Chapter companion thread I hope the main CbC discussion doesn't go the same way so can I here & now second Esty's plea for new contributors?

Please join us!!

[mark12_30]

I am desperately trying to catch up. I am struggling to get through book 3 so I can get to book 4 (I am a Frodo addict, after all) but I mustn't start reading book 4 til I've posted all my comments from book 3... I'm almost there. I have one more chapter to read (Palantir) and must also post my comments from the previous 3 (Voice of Saruman, Flotsam, Road to Isengard.)

[Formendacil]

I don't know if this is the case with anyone else, but on my computer (actually, both of my computers), when I look at the Chapter-by-Chapter forum, I see either a ghost or a locked-forum sign, both of which I took to mean, for the longest time, that the CbC forum was a forum only opened once in a while for discussion by members who were a part of a select group or something.

Does anyone else seen icons of that nature on the CbC forum? If so, maybe that would account for part of the problem. After all, who would bother trying to post in a forum that appeared to be locked? I didn't for quite a while.

[mark12_30]

Whoa!! The ghost (or lock) means that only certain persons (mods) can open new threads. It doesn't mean that you cannot post to the existing threads. The Shire is likewise locked because only the mods can open new games. But there's plenty of activity there.

Esty always opens each new thread. (And she does a marvellous job.)

Go into the sub-forum, and you will see unlocked threads!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Hmmmm, if it shows up as a locked forum, then that's only because the ability to open threads there is limited to the moderator and administrators. However, anyone can post there, and I hope to encourage many to try it - it's fun!

PS - Cross-posted with Mark12_30, who already explained the reasons...

[Formendacil]

Well yes, I discovered that eventually, and as the written record will show, posted a few times (although I must confess that I belong more to the respond to responses crowd than to the initial responders).

My initial confusion arose from experience elsewhere, and so I wondered if that might have had any bearing on other people posting.

[mark12_30]

Well yes, I discovered that eventually, and as the written record will show, posted a few times (although I must confess that I belong more to the respond to responses crowd than to the initial responders).

My initial confusion arose from experience elsewhere, and so I wondered if that might have had any bearing on other people posting.

Right, you've posted quite a bit. Wasn't trying to insult you, old chap-- sorry if it looked that way.

[Formendacil]

Not insulted. Just wanted to make sure that my initial point got across to the general audience. That is, a possible reason why new people were avoiding the CbC forum. Some of us just look at a forum with a lock on it, and assume that can't be posted in. (Probably those of us with the less comprehensive Internet/computer experience.)

[Lindolirian]

I have to admit, I am a bit daunted whenever I wander in there. Don't get me wrong, I love reading the stuff, but everyone has such incredibly long and insightful posts that I hardly know what to say without repeating them or saying something totally off base. Whenever I post something in The Books, it's almost always a fluke or a different way of looking at something. I think I've only found that opportunity once in the CbC threads. Then of course there's the excuse of not enough time the the real world. I think I'm just content to read your writings and if I find something ground-breaking to say, you'll hear from me.

[Encaitare]

I feel the same way, Lindo. I always follow the discussion, and I've learned a lot just from reading the replies there; the conversation often makes me see things in a completely new light. I don't respond that much, though, mainly because I usually don't have anything terribly important to say. I'll try to make a more conscious effort to post there, though, since I too have noticed that it's pretty much the same people posting there every chapter.

[Lalwendë]

Nobody should be scared that what they have to say might be short or brief, not everyone wants to do a long post. Some people do, some people don't, but I read them all, because I might miss something interesting.

I have a sneaky tip for the CbC discussions though. Get some of those little reusable coloured tabs/page marker thingys. And then as you read through, just use them to note anything interesting. They won't harm your books and you can re-use them. Soon enough, you'll have a load of good quotes and starting points.

Some chapters are more difficult than others though, and I think starting a new books is slightly odd, as we've got used to Book 3. It'll pick up I'm sure. ;)

[Nurumaiel]

I will state, most emphathetically, that it is rather difficult to post something that isn't 'important.' I know that many times, here and elsewhere, I'll mention something that seems unimportant and rather rambling, and someone will notice something in it that intrigues them... and something I, the writer, did not notice myself!

When I finish typing something up, I never feel as if it's very insightful. But... people are attracted to a sentence, ideas are sparked, questions are brought up, and even the 'dullest' of posts brings up many things to discuss.

In other words... I highly encourage all, even if they have something that seems unimportant to say, to speak up. It's highly possible that what seems unimportant to you will seem quite important to another person, and even if not so very important, I've received the impression that everyone enjoys reading everyone else's comments, no matter how 'trivial' those comments might be.

[Encaitare]

Sage words, Nuru, very well said. Everyone listen to her!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

What Nuru said...

What was it that Gandalf says to Frodo about the smallest post changing the course of a discussion? ;) Though I enjoy reading well-informed, even learned posts and digging into the book as well as finding background information in the additional volumes (HoME and such), sometimes the posts I enjoy most are those that share very personal experiences of reading. It's fun to remember seeing things with the freshness of first reading, or hearing from others that a passage gave them strength to cope with their real life.

There are things you have to say that no one else can say - this is a good place to try that out! :)

Besides, sometimes short posts that have something to say are much more interesting than repetitive long posts - burrahobbit, for example, has a reputation for being one of our wittiest posters and specializes in very brief posts! :D

[Lhunardawen]

One of the things I realized from my experience with the CbC discussions is that if you get an idea as you read the book and it seems to you that it is something that would easily occur to others' minds as well, but is never posted in CbC, point it out. Eventually you'll see that it's something that hasn't occured to everybody, and someone is bound to appreciate your idea.

[Lyta_Underhill]

...Uh...what Nurumaiel said! ;) I haven't gone through and read the books in awhile, and I'm currently reading about the fall of the Japanese Empire. It makes for interesting mental mixups when I try to remember points about Pippin and the Palantir or more importantly, when I try to think of something that would be good to post in that particular chapter that is on topic and not so high-falutin' as the discussion of the Secret Fire! Started reading the Taming of Smeagol CbC but got behind...perhaps I should take an interlude after the fall of Nanking and join Frodo, Sam and Gollum in the stinking marshes...strangely enough, almost every time I pick up LOTR for the on-the-spot read from the middle, I read "from the middle!" I always start with "The Uruk-Hai," because I want to read about Pippin's clever escape and relive the particular magic of the Ents...and from there I go on as far as I feel like. I think I've read the Palantir chapter about 50 times! (Well, maybe it is an exaggeration.)

It is further disorienting because I'm bogged down on the Walk to Mount Doom, going from shell hole to shell hole in Mordor, sometimes feeling like I'm moving as slowly as Frodo must feel he is going. I think I've been in Mordor forever! Maybe y'all will get to Mount Doom in the CbC before I get there on foot!

Cheers!
Lyta

P.S. Of course, there's no law about going back and posting in "A Long Expected Party" if I want to, right? ;)

[mark12_30]

P.S. Of course, there's no law about going back and posting in "A Long Expected Party" if I want to, right? ;)

If there is, then I'm in the Lockholes. I'm still playing catch-up.

I read the chapter and take notes as I go.

Then I write that up and post it **without looking at the thread.** Then I read the thread. I've found this to be very useful to me personally, as it keeps my own observations fresh, and enables a clear comparison/contrast with how others responded to their reading. Not sure if it drives everyone else crazy! But since I'm most often posting at the end of the thread anyway, I don't worry about it.

Since I have so many copies of the trilogy, I selected one of the common Del-Rey movie-editions-- and I am actually MARKING in it. :eek: But... it will actually make that copy more meaningful to me... remembering what I found interesting at the time. I oughta date it and put a description of the CBC project in the beginning.

I think this is either my twelfth reading or (probably) thirteenth. Not sure. And Lyta, I think I've read Pelennor fields about fifty times... back when I was Eomer-crazed, twenty-five years ago. Out of doubt, out of dark To the day's rising...

[Lathriel]

You shouldn't be afraid to post. I usually just post something and I don't care how long it is. In fact my posts are usually the shortest in the thread. Also I don't read throught the whole of LOTR as the chapter discussion go on.I just flip through the chapter and most of the time ideas just pop into my head. I did however re-read LOTR a few months ago. But since I re-read it once a year so it stays pretty fresh in my mind.

However, don't be afraid if you post seems short. Besides I would really like to see more people joining the discussions.

[Celebuial]

Ok. You've got me persuaded!!!! I shall rush home and start reading! Someone (sorry can't remeber who) made an interseting pont about post-it notes. My copy of The Sil is full of them! I never thoght to do it with LoTR though. I think I'll try mark12_30's approach and not read everyone else's posts before. I apologise now for anything that I will post in the future!

Anyway, I will try my hardest to keep up, but I am currently studying for my A-levels so it might be a bit tricky! I'll try not to post stupid stuff and hopefully it wont be too painful, you can't think I'm anymore of an idiot than you all ready do surely? LOL!

[Lalwendë]

Someone (sorry can't remeber who) made an interseting pont about post-it notes. My copy of The Sil is full of them!

That would have been me! ;) My copy of Morgoth's Ring is full of them because that was the last volume of HoME I looked at. I left the post-its in there, I found so many interesting points that I had to remember.

I actually like Mark 12_30's idea of physically annotating a text, which ought to a shocking idea to me - damaging books! No! :eek: But, if I could get a new copy which was cheap and a duplicate of another copy, then I might consider it. ;) It might actually be nice to look back on those notes. I still have texts I used at university and these obviously had to be annotated, and I quite enjoy looking back at those, to see what interested me at the time.

[mark12_30]

Lalwendë, thanks for the post-it idea-- that will work well for such treasured copies as the Red Book, the Green Book, Sil, histories, etc... and for either version of the Annotated Hobbit-- which I have no intent of annotating myself!
;)

[Lathriel]

damaging books! No! But, if I could get a new copy which was cheap
A great place to find cheap LOTR books is a seconhand bookstore. I got a copy of ROTK for One Canadian dollar! :D :eek:
I should probably go back and see if they have a cheap version of TTT.

[Lyta_Underhill]

For those of you who live out of boxes like me and can't find anything, even the Tolkien books that used to be right by the bed, here's a helpful link! I found online the text to "The Palantir" and "Taming of Smeagol" last night and did a little quick catchup from this site: http://www.networksam.com/lord_of_the_rings.htm in the moments I wasn't doing online work (bleah!). It looks like the entire text of LOTR is on the site, although it cannot be copied, thus quoted sections would have to be long-handed. It was a big help to me, though!

Cheers!
Lyta

[Celebuial]

Wow that site is great!!!!!! Thanks Lyta!!!!

I promise I will join you in discussion soon. I would've been doing it now but I got home, picked up my copy of LotR..... and promptly forgot where you guys are!!!!!!! Never mind..... I'l start tonight!!!

[davem]

So what's happening?

Has everyone given up on this? Three posts on the current chapter so far is a bit sad!

Do people find book four itself boring, or have people just given up on the project? I remember when this project began our esteemed Esty also started a HoME read along thread which managed to run for about half a dozen chapters before fizzling out. Will the main project go the same way, or are people just waiting for book five, when things get 'interesting' again, with the big battles & high adventure?

I wonder if the movies haven't played some part in shaping people's view of the story by emphasising the Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli storyline & making it seem more interesting.

On the other hand maybe Sam got it right when he said to Frodo that at this point some readers/hearers of the story would say 'Shut the book now Dad, we don't want to read anymore.'

Is it that people find the Frodo/Sam/Gollum storyline too 'dark' & oppressive, or is it that they simply find it too boring? If its the latter, what does that say about us as readers & as Tolkien fans? I have to say that this part of the story has become increasingly meaningful & significant to me as I've grown older, so I've actually been looking forward to this part of the story. How about others? Maybe a more significant question would be, who do readers consider the 'real' hero & central character of LotR to be - Frodo or Aragorn - & how much of a part has PJ played in shaping that opinion?

Whatever, we still have about six months worth of discussion to go - & that's if we limit ourselves only to the main chapters & Aragorn & Arwen, & don't stray into the rest of the Appendices.

Is there enough interest in the project to sustain us to the end of the Road? Or will we fall before the end. Speaking personally I'm going to carry on with it, even if I'm the only one posting & nobody reads what I post! I've learned a great deal over the months - from other posters &, if it doesn't sound too smug, from my own personal discoveries & the connections I've made. I've probably paid more attention to the text in this reading than in any of my previous readings & my appreciation of Tolkien & his work has increased immensely as a result.

Well?

[Maédhros]

Has everyone given up on this? Three posts on the current chapter so far is a bit sad!

Do people find book four itself boring, or have people just given up on the project? I remember when this project began our esteemed Esty also started a HoME read along thread which managed to run for about half a dozen chapters before fizzling out. Will the main project go the same way, or are people just waiting for book five, when things get 'interesting' again, with the big battles & high adventure?
Did you really expect for people to continually post in the book discussion? As the discussion moves on, it looses the novelty aspect of it and becomes routine, people get bored and tired. It is as simple as that.
I was involved in a similar book discussion in another forum and the same thing happened.

Is there enough interest in the project to sustain us to the end of the Road? Or will we fall before the end. Speaking personally I'm going to carry on with it, even if I'm the only one posting & nobody reads what I post! I've learned a great deal over the months - from other posters &, if it doesn't sound too smug, from my own personal discoveries & the connections I've made. I've probably paid more attention to the text in this reading than in any of my previous readings & my appreciation of Tolkien & his work has increased immensely as a result.
Good for you.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

Sigh, if only there were more hours in the day. And that I didn't get 'Websensed' everytime I try to access the Barrow-downs at lunch! :p But I'm in it for the long haul, I believe.

[littlemanpoet]

I have the time, but I'd hate to re-start somewhere in the middle of the story. See, I just started The Hobbit again for the first time in over ten years with the intention of reading straight through at about a chapter a day if I can pull it off. That way I might catch up by the time you guys reach RotK. Yeah, it means I'm missing out now, but - oh, I don't know! I just don't want to start in the middle. Please try and convince me that it's worth it.

[Formendacil]

Okay, LMP, I'll try.

However, it is a very unconventional tactic I will take!

First of all, a big confession to make: I haven't read a Chapter of the Lord of the Rings properly in about two months. And I haven't read a single chapter of the Lord of the Rings in congruence with the CbC discussion since I've joined the community. And I'm not ashamed of it.

But Formendacil!!! you say, That's wrong!!!

Is it?

I would think that my contributions to the threads have been insightful and intelligent to a certain extent. Besides which, allow me to point out that I have read the Lord of the Rings so many times that the basic and complex storyline (if very little of the exact wording) is well-grounded in my head. And I would think that this ought to be the case with many or most of the "older" Barrow-downers set. In addition, there is Estelyn's marvelous discourse opening up the discussion that refreshes the memory, has it perchance forgotten in which chapter Faramir and Frodo have their farewell discourse, to name one example.

So am I saying that you shouldn't read the chapter??? Of course not!!! What I am saying is that it isn't 100% essential. What I do (or have started trying to do) is post my general impressions about the chapter, what it's highlights are for me, and make replies to any interesting points and ideas brought up in the previous posts on the thread.

My general point is that our well-experienced Barrow-downers should not feel that they NEED to read the Chapter prior to joining the discussion. This is a very noble pursuit, and definitely to be encouraged, but for those of us in the club that remember the plot details down to what happened to the lebethron staves, then it shouldn't be necessary to read the book.

I still have the book on hand in case I remember a specific reference I want to look up, or if (for some unearthly reason) I can't remember how something went, then I can check. And for those readers who DON'T belong to the half-memorised club, then look at this as a stimulus to reread, or at least browse. ONE chapter of Tolkien is NOT that much!

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Thank you, davem, for your impassioned plea and for your steadfast and always interesting contributions. I too am sad to see less participation recently, but I find your thoughts on the connection between the passages we are going through and the general lack of interest quite fascinating. I hadn't thought of applying Sam's comment to it, but find it very appropriate! Actually, we may be mirroring the plodding of Frodo and Sam's journey...

Yes, Maédhros, something new always gets more attention, but I am happy that there are still a number of members keeping up with us, and perhaps there will be a pick-up of interest when we get to more exciting chapters in RotK.

There is a slowing down of posting all over the forum since the movies; for many of us, real life and its demands catches up with us, and we must move on to other tasks. However, it really doesn't take long to read a chapter; I have made it a habit, almost a tradition by now, to read the next one Sunday afternoon, so that I can write my introduction that evening or Monday morning.

I agree with Formendacil though - if you don't have the time to read each chapter anew, just drop in and comment with memories of previous impressions or using the knowledge you already have. Or skim the chapter just to refresh your memory. The more people post with their ideas, even if only briefly, the more ideas get sparked in others, and one thought can generate a fascinating discussion!

I hope that was enough to encourage you to join, LMP! ;)

[davem]

I hadn't thought of applying Sam's comment to it, but find it very appropriate! Actually, we may be mirroring the plodding of Frodo and Sam's journey...

:o er... I now recall it was Frodo's comment :o - Will check quotes before I post in future....

Anyway, I think the point still stands....

[littlemanpoet]

Okay, I'll skim. Starting with the current chapter. It may take a goodly bit of the day before I'm ready. Heck I'm even falling behind my chapter of the day goal with The Hobbit! So why make it such a chore? I don't know, I just want to. I'm hoping it will catch fire for me and I'll get way ahead.... I'll check into CbC soon, promise. Oh, and thanks for the prodding, Formendacil and Esty, you gentle hobbit souls. :)

[drigel]

but I am happy that there are still a number of members keeping up with us,

as with most of The Books threads, I always keep up. I refrain from espousing most of the time, because I know what I know - but in reading other's insights, I am able to expand my perceptions. I appreciate that!

The more people post with their ideas, even if only briefly, the more ideas get sparked in others, and one thought can generate a fascinating discussion!

I totally agree! I will to try to drop a line or two (like I always do) to twist up the conversation, and contribute more.

[Lhunardawen]

Now I understand how Esty feels when CbC becomes dead. It's devastating that the second week for 'The Passing' has begun yet the discussions are barely starting to kick off. I understand that most of you are probably enjoying your summer break or whatever, but you are sorely needed at the CbC discussions. Every one of you! :) Especially since we've just begun the last book of the series, where things are even more fun and exciting to talk about. I appeal to all of you...please join the discussion.

End of rant.

[littlemanpoet]

Well shoot, I didn't know it was underway again. I'll have a look.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

The CbC discussions now begin with the final events of the story - we start Book 6 today. This is a good time for those who've lagged to just jump in and discuss the most important chapters with us! Whichever your favorite chapter of this section is, please do join us in sharing thoughts and feelings about it. You've read them all, so even if you don't have the time to reread in detail, pick out the parts that mean most to you and tell us why. I look forward to good posts!

[The Perky Ent]

They have taken the bridge, and the second hall. We have barred the gates, but we cannot hold them for long.* The ground shakes.* Drums...drums in the deep.* We cannot get out.* A Shadow moves in the dark.*We cannot get out. The ent is comming

When CbC first came out I was intrigued, but I knew I couldn't match the intelligence of its more frequent posters. But today I drive from Dallas to Houston, and plan on rereading as much of Book 6 as I can. If everything works out, I'll get hooked on CbC and follow it past the Appendicies, The hobbit, and the sil!

[Cloudberry]

Hello, I am new here. I've searched for an online group to discuss the books with for over two years, and have been reading here for several months. I am an "old" Tolkien reader, always eager to learn more and think more deeply about the works, but by no means an expert on any aspect.

Your CbC forum posts are impressive! I download them Sunday mornings for brunch reading, and have only finished one complete week's postings so far. Everyone's views and insights have given my family some lively discussions over pancakes...

If you have room for one more (I didn't want to be rude and join in the middle), and don't mind someone who does not have a great grasp of posting with icons, etc., this may be a good time for me to join in...

May I?

Cloudberry

[davem]

Cloudberry

Welcome to the Downs :)

Certainly you can join in - the more the merrier.

Of course, you will have to stop saying brunch from now on & call it 'Second breakfast' in proper Hobbit fashion :D

[Formendacil]

Of course, you will have to stop saying brunch from now on & call it 'Second breakfast' in proper Hobbit fashion :D

"Movie Hobbit" fashion, I believe you mean... :p

And Cloudberry- if jumping into the CbC discussions late is a frowned upon action, then I'm toast. I didn't visit these forums until Book III...

Besides, up and down this thread we have Estelyn trying to coax or coerce as many people as possible into joining the CbC. Expect a welcoming with open arms.

[davem]

"Movie Hobbit" fashion, I believe you mean...

And book Hobbit:

"Don't be a fool, Bilbo Baggins!"he said to himself, "thinking of dragons and all that outlandish nonsense at your age!" So he put on an apron, lit fires, boiled water, and washed up. Then he had a nice little breakfast in the kitchen before turning out the dining-room. By that time the sun was shining; and the front door was open, letting in a warm spring breeze. Bilbo began to whistle loudly and to forget about the night before. In fact he was just sitting down to a nice little second breakfast in the dining-room by the open window, when in walked Gandalf.

&

To the end of his days Bilbo could never remember how he found himself outside, without a hat, walkingstick or any money, or anything that he usually took when he went out; leaving his second breakfast half finished and quite unwashed-up, pushing his keys into Gandalf's hands, and running as fast as his furry feet could carry him down the lane, past the great Mill, across The Water, and then on for a whole mile or more.

[Formendacil]

And book Hobbit:

Well, if you're going to insist, then fine... But I don't see any capitalization, or any indication that they would call it "second breakfast", or even that it was an expected meal. The indication here seems to be that it was simply the second breakfast that Bilbo was having that morning.

Hmm... Methinks we will have great fun doing a CbC of The Hobbit. :D

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Welcome to the Downs, Cloudberry, and you are most welcome to join in the CbC discussions! It's wonderful to have different opinions and thoughts and impressions on LotR, the more the merrier indeed! It's never too late to join in the latest discussion, and all previous threads stay open for business, even when we start new ones. Hope you'll enjoy yourself, and I look forward to reading what you have to say!

(And yes, I too look forward to the Hobbit discussions!)

[Cloudberry]

Thank you for the warm welcome. I will be bringing my breakfasts and reading glasses over to the CbC board to join in now.

This makes my mornings much brighter--a cup of my strong coffee for you all!

Cloudberry

[Mister Underhill]

And book Hobbit:But considering your source, the big question is, is second breakfast canonical (legendarionical?)? :p

[Estelyn Telcontar]

We have begun discussing The Hobbit today! Please go here (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=12523) to read and to post. Share your experience and memories of first-time reading of the book; write what you still like - or no longer enjoy; tell us your favourite parts. What makes you laugh? What fascinates you?

I look forward to many interesting and enjoyable posts!

[littlemanpoet]

Thanks for this reminder, Esty. :)

[mark12_30]

Hmmmmm.... Makes me wish my Siberian Snowhobbits knew enough of the king's english for me to read The Hobbit to them. Perhaps the comic version? They do like the cartoon. Gandalf = Dyedushka.