Why Bilbo?

[Morsul the Dark]

I've searched for this and can't find it maybe I didn't look hard enough, however my question, is why did Gandalf choose Bilbo to go with the dwarves. and if I recall From where i do not recall however :rolleyes: this may by something in my head fro no reason Gandalf wanted dwarves in the lonely mountain for defense against sauron(again where i got that i dont know) my point is all sidethoughts aside(ha) why did Gandalf pick Bilbo to go, weren't there more adventurous hobbits down the river? in crickhallow or some such place?

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

It's explained in 'The Quest of Erebor' in Unfinished Tales. Definitely worth a read.

[The Amok]

I always thought that it was an underlining plot of the The Hobbit. That Gandalf had chosen Bilbo to partake in the quest, yet at this stage Bilbo had no idea why he was to be chosen, after all he was just a lowly Hobbit with no battle\quest experience what so ever.

But by the end of the book, they have come back to the point of why Gandalf insisted that Bilbo tagged along and it is somewhat reconciled

After all he does save the Dwarves butts more than twice.

So I believe it comes to the conclusion that Gandalf saw something in Bilbo that no one else (including the Hobbit himself) saw, and that was confirmed in victory at the end of the book.

[Celuien]

The Quest of Erebor is a very interesting read. In brief, Gandalf remembered Bilbo from his last trip to the Shire as young hobbit who wanted to learn more about the world outside of the Shire. He was also noted even then for being odd and talking to strangers, including Dwarves. ;)
Somehow I had been attracted by Bilbo long before, as a child, and a young hobbit: he had not quite come of age when I had last seen him. He had stayed in my mind ever since, with his eagerness and his bright eyes, and his love of tales, and his questions about the wide world outside the Shire. As soon as I entered the Shire I heard news of him. He was getting talked about, it seemed. Both his parents had died early for Shire-folk, at about eighty; and he had never married. He was already growing a bit queer, they said, and went off for days by himself. He could be seen talking to strangers, even Dwarves.
"Even Dwarves!' Suddenly in my mind these three things came together: the great Dragon with his lust, and his keen hearing and scent; the sturdy heavy-booted Dwarves with their old burning grudge; and the quick, soft-footed Hobbit, sick at heart (I guessed) for a sight of the wide world.

Even more interestingly, Gandalf says that he knew Bilbo had to go on the Quest, or it would fail. I think this piece of foresight speaks to the importance of chance meetings (or perhaps, not completely by chance) in the Legendarium. If Bilbo had not gone, imagine how differently Middle Earth's future would have turned out. No Ring rediscovered, no Quest for Mount Doom, etc.

"But that was not enough for me. I knew in my heart that Bilbo must go with him, or the whole quest would be a failure – or, as I should say now, the far more important events by the way would not come to pass. So I had still to persuade Thorin to take him. There were many difficulties on the road afterwards, but for me this was the most difficult part of the whole affair. Though I argued with him far into the night after Bilbo had retired, it was not finally settled until early the next morning. "Thorin was contemptuous and suspicious. 'He is soft,' he snorted. 'Soft as the mud of his Shire, and silly. His mother died too soon. You are playing some crooked game of your own, Master Gandalf. I am sure that you have other purposes than helping me."

"'You are quite right,' I said. 'If I had no other purposes, I should not be helping you at all. Great as your affairs may seem to you, they are only a small strand in the great web. I am concerned with many strands. But that should make my advice more weighty, not less.' I spoke at last with great heat. 'Listen to me, Thorin Oakenshield !' I said. 'If this hobbit goes with you, you will succeed. If not, you will fail. A foresight is on me, and I am warning you.'

(Hope the quotes are okay - I'm using an online version and don't have the hard copy at hand).

So I suppose Bilbo was ultimately meant to go with Thorin and Co, and by more than Gandalf's wisdom.

[Child of the 7th Age]

I am as fascinated by the discussion of Bilbo in Unfinished Tales as you are. But there is one thought that always comes popping into my head. Did Tolkien feel this way when he wrote The Hobbit, or even when he began to put pen to paper for the Lord of the Rings, or was this a much later revelation? Perhaps even a revelation that came in writng the final pages of the Return of the King.

How much of the hand of Providence was there in the beginning of the tale, and how much was a later addition? In view of the fact that Tolkien in his Letters clearly alludes to the fact that LotR was explicitly Christian 'in its revisions', exactly when did this make itself felt? There was another thread discussing this in books some time ago (started by Littlemanpoet), but we never really reached a conclusion.

[Celuien]

Is that the "...And Consciously So in the Revision" thread?

I had forgotten about the time frame and revision aspect of the UT quote. All of the versions given have Gandalf referring to another force directing his choice of Bilbo. But at the same time, since all are written as a narrative from Frodo after the destruction of the Ring, they are revised versions of the story from after the LOTR became the completion of The Hobbit.

So I guess the question is one of Tolkien's original intention when writing The Hobbit. I don't have a good answer to the question of the original process that went into the creation of Bilbo's story (especially not with a major exam Friday - I can't really research anything now). Then again, does the stated intention given in the revision supercede an initial purpose to write a story that did not involve Providence in Bilbo's selection?

[Elladan and Elrohir]

I don't have the book with me, so I can't give an exact quote, but methinks Chapter XIX "The Last Stage" may shed some light on whether Tolkien intended Providence to play a role in The Hobbit from the beginning. Check out the conversation between Gandalf and Bilbo that happens at the very end of the book. They're not exactly talking about Eru, but I think we can catch the drift.

[Celuien]

"Then the old prophecies have turned out to be true, after a fashion!" said Bilbo.

"Of course!" said Gandalf. "And why should they not prove true? Surely you don't disbelieve the prophecies, because you had a part in bringing them about yourself? You don't really suppose, do you, that all your adventures and escapes were managed by mere luck, just for your sole benefit? You are a very fine person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you, but you are only quite a little fellow in a wide world after all!"

The conversation does imply participation by Providence in Bilbo's adventures. Gandalf is telling Bilbo that the course of his journey was intended to run as it did, at least with respect ro fulfilling the prophecies related to Smaug's demise. That would lend support to the idea of Bilbo's being chosen for the adventure in some way beyond Gandalf's inital understanding being present from the beginning, although, perhaps like Gandalf, Tolkien wasn't completely aware of it until later. ;)

[Findegil]

Chapter XIX does not help to answer Child's question, I think.

Child is clearly right that all versions of "The Quest of Erebor" were written in 1955 when Tolkien prepaired the Appendices for the "The Return of the King". Thus the idea of providence guiding Gandalf to chose Bilbo is clearly an after thought.

Also chapter XIX of the Hobbit was written long after chapter I. As fare as we know "The Hobbit" was not written in one contious efford. The story was left for a longtime unfinished ending with the death of Smaug. Thus even Gandalf talking to Bilbo about his rôle in the quest and hinting at providence as a important force is as well an after thought of Tolkien refelcting on story written years before.

Respectfully
Findegil

[Celuien]

Chapter XIX does not help to answer Child's question, I think.

Child is clearly right that all versions of "The Quest of Erebor" were written in 1955 when Tolkien prepaired the Appendices for the "The Return of the King". Thus the idea of providence guiding Gandalf to chose Bilbo is clearly an after thought.

Also chapter XIX of the Hobbit was written long after chapter I. As fare as we know "The Hobbit" was not written in one contious efford. The story was left for a longtime unfinished ending with the death of Smaug. Thus even Gandalf talking to Bilbo about his rôle in the quest and hinting at providence as a important force is as well an after thought of Tolkien refelcting on story written years before.

Respectfully
Findegil

True, but I think that it at least dates the genesis of the idea prior to publishing the LotR, making it present during the process of writing The Hobbit rather than an afterthought when The Hobbit became part of the larger Legendarium. Unless, of course, the conversation dates from the same time as the revisions to the riddle game... ;)

Anyone have an annotated copy?

[Formendacil]

True, but I think that it at least dates the genesis of the idea prior to publishing the LotR, making it present during the process of writing The Hobbit rather than an afterthought when The Hobbit became part of the larger Legendarium. Unless, of course, the conversation dates from the same time as the revisions to the riddle game... ;)

No, it goes back to the original edition, I'm pretty sure. And that makes it not only prior to the Lord of the Rings publication, but prior to its very writing. It would have been written, then, before Tolkien ever began the sequel that was to lead to Mt. Doom.

[middle earth82193]

I think gandalf picked bilbo because he knew that bilbo deep inside would really of liked and adventure. Of course I am not possitive about this, because I am doing a report on the Hobbit and need to know this yet I do not... So yes if anyone knows please respond! :) thank you very much!

[middle earth82193]

I do agree with child... Maybe tolken didn't know why gandalf choose bilbo... If no one else knows then how do we know that he even knew himself? :eek: