Tol-In-Gauroth XXIV: Battle of the Band[Wagon] [Archive]

Sleepy Ranger

09-27-2006, 01:18 PM

You are all probably wondering who these fourteen [un]lucky musicians are. Well, I shall not leave you suspense for too long. Sleepy Cowell had not only named them but had also given them a brief biography of sorts. His final list looked something like this,

Volo
Easily one of the most influential heavy metal musicians to have ever graced the musical world. A man referred to as the 'Grandfather' of European heavy metal definitely deserves a chance to compete in a battle as such.

Boromir88
One of the greatest classic rock 'n' roll superstars. If you asked me to pick my favorite of that genre, without a second thought, it would be this man. He's tried his hand at vocal criticism but in all honesty he should stick to the music and leave criticism to people who know how to do it, like me.

Meneltarmacil
Now I doubt anyone would argue this pick. I reckon it was perhaps the most obvious out of all. How would a competition as such be complete without this man, without the King? Perhaps now is the time for him to test his might against the rest. Will the King remain King at the end of this or will he pass on the crown?

Durelin
Ah, "pop culture’s unkempt poster child of doom and gloom." A fine addition to this tournament. This person may dress... well... uh... I'd suggest going a bit easy on the lipstick but well it's your choice.

Folwren
A religious band has somehow managed to sneak it's way onto my list. Regardless I reckon they did a well enough job in their field to earn a spot here. For a band that began by performing at home I'd say they're doing well enough.

Celuien
Ah... for some reason you're a conductor... but you're a great musical talent none the less. Ahem, I must say that the photographic memory and some other rather, how shall I put it, illusionary traits have convinced me to let you in. Easily one of the biggest fish in this competition, too bad we're not measure fish.

THE Ka
Definitely an interesting personality, both on and off stage. Said to be appealing to shy teenagers and to glorify working-class criminality. Good thing theres plenty of that in this world. Anyway, a very talented and influentian musician though some songs could be called controversial, I'm certain I've made a good pick.

Rune
For a man who started off just writing I'd say he has done very, very well. His songs are brilliant and very poetic. His vocals may not be that appealing but he can get the job done.

Glirdan
Could be called a controversial pick but their lead placed third in their region's counterpart of Middle-Earth Idol, a show which you'll all remember I judged. Anyway, they are new blood and provide some youth and enthusiasm to proceedings.

Eonwe
I'm not sure what to tell you about them except that their appeal lies in being confusing. Ahem, perhaps another controversial pick but I reckon their music would add some variety (not that we don't already have a lot) and liven up the competition.

Macalaure
Ah... finally someone who participated in Middle-Earth Idol. They were rejected but uh... that is another story. He has great skill with the harp and is a very talented singer, earning the nickname "Mighty Singer". After giving him a heart-crushing 'no' in Idol, I'm giving him a spirit-raising 'yes' for this one.

Diamond18
Here is a delightful trio with roots in some genre known as bluegrass. I always thought the grass was greener on the other side, obviously they have another story to tell. Anyway, this could very easily be billed as another controversial pick however I'll say they, another pick along the lines of Hedley, will have a positive effect on proceedings.

Thinlómien
I, for some reason, have picked a horn for the competition. Oh wait, they're a band. Now then you could quite possibly label this as my most controversial pick but the competition needed some international exposure and an unheard of Finnish band would quite possibly do the trick.

Nogrod
Now here's a band which I daresay would be nothing if not for their lead. Regardless they had a fair impact despite their short time together. They're only in it since the lead singer stated he would not participate without his band. The whims of fame...

Sleepy Ranger

09-27-2006, 01:21 PM

The Battle of the Bands had started of with a bang. People had come in hundreds to see the event. The Snowy Wolf Tavern was filled up in barely an hour, the rest took to setting up camp near by. The first day had started. The fourteen performers gave it their all and were met by a very encouraging round of applause. Sleepy Cowell however was very critical of all of them and declared then that none of them looked good enough to win this and would have to work on their act if they hoped to be even half-way respectable.

His comments were treated to a large round of boos from the audience as the fourteen looked at him dis-heartened. Night fell, everyone returned to their quarters but when the morning came... the mood changed completely. Nobody had expected something like this to occur. Everyone (apart from the conetstants) took to running away. In under an hour the only occupants of the area were the fourteen musicians and Sleepy Cowell. One of them no longer drew breath.

The crowd had awoken to a shocking scene. In the lobby, where once hung a rather fierce looking wolf now hung the severed head of Sleepy Cowell and under the head lay a headless body, unmistakeably his. Pinned under the head and above the body was a note. It read,

Sleepy Cowell, thank you for picking us but you are no longer needed. We are already the greatest musicians in the world and the rest of you are just thorns in our side. The three of us will make sure that you thorns are soon extracted and thrown aside. One by one you will all be picked off. There is no escape, a magical barrier guards the way out. Nobody can enter, nobody can leave. Embrace your fate.

A strange and uneasy silence hung over the musicians. There were three amongst them who had given dirty play a whole new meaning. They looked from one another. "Maybe a bit of fresh air would help clear our minds!" a voice spoke up. Nobody relpied yet they all did step outside. They made their way to the large shell where they had performed earlier. Lo behold! Here there was another note,

Greetings musicians,

You need not worry. Yes, there are those amongst you who wish to cause you harm but keep cool. Stay in the shell during the day, you can not come to any harm here. At night I'm afraid the shell loses it's power and you will have to retreat back to the Tavern. It's up to you to come up with a way to get out of this, to prove you really are amongst the greatest musicians to have ever hummed a tune. It's up to you to keep the spirit of music alive!

Yours Instrumentally,
The Phantom of the Battle-O-Bands

The day had begun. Eyes met, the battle of the bands may have started yesterday but yesterday was just a teaser. The true battle had just begun!

***

Day 1
Wolves stop talking. Ranger & Hunter stop discussions. Day has begun, you may now start posting. Deadline is 1pm EST just for this day.

Dead
Sleepy Cowell (Mod) - Beheaded and mounted on a wall.

Alive

Menelteramacil
Glirdan
Macalaure
Diamond18
THE Ka
Thinlomien
Celuien
Eonwe
Nogrod
Durelin
Boromir88
Folwren
Volo
Rune

Folwren

09-28-2006, 11:21 AM

A very, very shocking beginning. Being beheaded is not a very good thing. I'm rather shocked that. . .that would have happened. . .so soon. You'd think the villains would wait a few deaths later to get gruesome.

I am just checking in. I have nothing to say, other than, good luck, good people, and bad luck bad people.

And don't try to derive any strange and twisted meaning out of this first post be cause there isn't any.

-- Folwren

Meneltarmacil

09-28-2006, 11:38 AM

I'm all shook up about what just happened.

We must not toss around wild accusations yet. I believe the best use of our time toDay would be to discuss how exactly the wolves should be hunted down. We're better off going after the wolves with a plan than without one. Some here may think a wolf ain't nothin' but a hound dog, but they're wrong, believe me. Werewolves can be pretty crafty, and we need to be just as crafty to catch them.

Anyhow, I regret to inform you that I'll fall into a deep sleep early on Day 5, and will not wake up until Day 7 due to certain circumstances.

Whatever you do, though, please don't step on my blue suede shoes.

Boromir88

09-28-2006, 11:56 AM

To the King:

I believe the best use of our time toDay would be to discuss how exactly the wolves should be hunted down.

There's one problem that I see with this, it seems rather open. What I mean is by openly discussing how we are going to find werewolves, it would be much easier for the wolves to hide and avoid suspicion, especially if they know what we are going to do to go about finding them. It will be much easier for them to simply be A face in the crowd.

I do agree about random accusations that gets us nowhere and just compounds the confusion of Day 1.

Volo

09-28-2006, 12:00 PM

"I have had harder times than this. My childhood friend and the drummer of my band commited a suicide, now that was bad..." Volo was extremly sad that this competition was a fraud. "This is sad, Sleepy shouldn't have suffered this, just like none of us should have. The only thing that is left for us is to survive. Let's get rid of the wolves and have a fair competition!" With that Volo took out his guitar and started playing a song of silence.

Eonwe

09-28-2006, 12:21 PM

Well, I dunno about u chums, but I've got my ticket out of here! I'm gonna rely on the Power of Rock! to see me through this one!

As for me, Menel, I intend to use my wamy-bar to find to wolves. You know that trick with a forked stick, that's used to find wells? Well, it works the same way. If I point my guitar at someone, and it ... um, wamies, then you are obviously a wolf. So, will you all form a neat line in front of me, and we'll settle this matter quickly with very little confution...

Volo

09-28-2006, 12:37 PM

"Now Eonwe, don't start pointing your stick at anybody you see. The Power of Rock sounds good, but don't rely on it too much.
Boromir said something as true as sad, any strategy we think of now will most certainly turn against us.
Menel, I'm sorry for your absence, but I vow to wake up the king! By the way, talented lad that Toby..."
Volo started playing his alltime favourite, Exciter. Glenn sure knew how to use a guitar! And Rob's voice, nothing can beat that, perfect.

Folwren

09-28-2006, 01:33 PM

The only problem with openly discussing our plans of how to catch wolves is what Boromir said - the wolves will know our plane.

The only problem with not openly discussing our plans is...there's no other way to discuss things.

I'm going to quote Boromir not because I'm accusing him or anything, but to make things more conveniently looked up. Okay, Boromir said:

There's one problem that I see with this, it seems rather open. What I mean is by openly discussing how we are going to find werewolves, it would be much easier for the wolves to hide and avoid suspicion, especially if they know what we are going to do to go about finding them. It will be much easier for them to simply be A face in the crowd.

Yes, it's true that if we talk about how we're going to go about things, the wolves will try to find ways to hide. On the other hand, if we do not make some sort of effort to bring ourselves together, then we'll be running around with no plan, each man for himself, and the world doesn't go around very well when people act like that. As Benjamin Franklin said at the signing of the Declaration of Independence:

"We must all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."

-- Folwren

Meneltarmacil

09-28-2006, 02:44 PM

*continues to munch on jelly doughnuts*

I understand your concerns, Boromir, and they are completely justified. Really, though, there's no way to discuss strategies for finding wolves without them hearing us, and it would be worse if we just tossed votes around at people without discussing them first. Remember, lynchings are carried out not by individuals' whims, but by majority vote. Folwren's Benjamin Franklin quote sums this up pretty well, and can be applied quite literally to this situation.

Glirdan

09-28-2006, 03:18 PM

Dude!! What just happened? Sleepy was beheaded!? No way!! Who did this to the guy? A Wolf!? You're kididng me!! I have a phobia of big furry creatures you know...

But I'll still help find the killer of one of the most famous dudes of all, dude. But if I'm not around a lot, it's cuz I have other things to take care of (OOC - RL stuff). But I'll try and be here as much as possible dudes duddettes.

But I've gotta jet. So I'll catch you on the flip side!

(That's me trying to act stupid...didn't work to well...)

Celuien

09-28-2006, 03:24 PM

This is no town for me. No symphony, no opera. If it weren't for the spell, I think I'd just leave.

I'm against random votes. I intend to focus my efforts on locating these imposter 'greatest musicians.' Ha! Greatest, indeed.

I'll return later.

Durelin

09-28-2006, 03:34 PM

It doesn't matter if we all die (http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/cure/onehundredyears.html)...

Which it looks like we might.

Personally, I expect the wolfman (http://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/the_cure/lullaby.html) is having me for dinner tonight...

Just let me see Morrissey go before I do, okay?

The press try to categorize me a 'gloom-and-doom (http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/r/robertsmit188836.html)' singer. But, take a look at Morrissey! That man's a professional moaner!

The perfect lynchee. He'll find it fun.

++Morrissey

Or rather,

++THE Ka

*wanders off-stage singing, "Morrissey in a coma, I know, I know..."*

Meneltarmacil

09-28-2006, 03:42 PM

My ideas on how to spot wolves:

They will usually blend into the crowd. Some may be bold enough to be rather talkative, but there's most likely only going to be one doing that. The loud wolf, however, is the dangerous one. He/she will influence the voting and sway people toward innocents. If it seems the lynchings have not been going well and innocents have died, I suggest the Seer investigate the more influential people. The other two wolves will probably not try to create any serious trouble during the Day preferring to stay out of the spotlight.

What a wolf is not likely to do, though, is be completely silent. That usually leads to lynching, regardless of one's status. I'm not saying ignore the silent ones, though, as double-bluffing is also effective.

Above all though, don't step on my blue suede shoes.

Boromir88

09-28-2006, 04:14 PM

Menel, I do agree that there must be some sort of unity amongst us singers, but our best chance of winning comes down trust in individuals (and that's where the unity comes in). Do I want to trust you? Do you want to trust me? As the days go on we will all be able to establish our own cases against who we think are the wolves and the people we feel safe about. If that's what you were meaning, than I certainly have no disagreement. In order to find the wolves we have at least for a certain time, feel that someone is innocent. As simply suspecting everyone and saying everybody is a wolf, 'I trust no one' serves no good.

What I was meaning, was I don't think it's a good idea to talk about what we will be looking for the wolves to do, because that makes it far too easier for wolves to hide in and look innocent. If I spot something that looks wolvish, I go right after and jump on it. I don't like to discuss my own personal strategy as far as what I'm looking for the wolves to do, because that makes it easier for the wolves to get on my 'innocent' side, as they will know my mind and what I'm looking for.

Glirdan, your post seems far too dramatic to me. It shouldn't really be all that shocking. I bet Mr. Sleepy Cowell has received millions of death threats over the years. It should no surprise that someone (well wolves actually) went through with it.

Rune Son of Bjarne

09-28-2006, 04:54 PM

Sleepy Cowell is dead. . .

And here we are a large group of musicians gathered on the same place, it reminds me of the Chelsea Hotel.

As for discussing what stradegy to use, well I have to join the choir that sings that it ain't no cure. Right now any stradegy would be almost pointless, I am willing to discus stradegy just not now.

Right now I don't have anything to say, I just wanted to let you know I am here.

THE Ka

09-28-2006, 04:58 PM

It is alright Robert, I understand your need to judge before action and investigation. (http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~moz/faq/faqtrivi.htm)

Anyways, If I can say something without being cut off, it is a terribly bloody shame that Sleepy has left us. Now, we have this whole deal in ruins with no judge, and not too bad at one for that... I hope this doesn't have us in an inferno for too long, Johnny tends to become frustrated if we stay at a gig too long, then the guitars tend to become unshambled, and then he starts to complain about everything...

Well, I agree with most of you lads, a sweet and tender young hooligan would say he/she would never do it again, and again... But I don't think we have one of those on our hands. Of course, there is those who can't handle this pressure of press, audience, judging, and the idea of taking time for change, so, it would seem in the split second of anxiety, someone would be pushed to do such a thing as taking out the judge, or hanging the blessed DJ, if there was one in their path. Anyways, it is too soon, and like our Frank (http://www.compsoc.man.ac.uk/~moz/lyrics/killuncl/ourfrank.htm), maybe we shouldn't be pulled so easily into twisting conversations by a few sweet, tender, young hooligans, though we may see some of their plight.

~ Moz, Marr and the lads (Ka)

Nogrod

09-28-2006, 05:08 PM

We thought in the the beginning, that we're only in it for the money, but behold what has happened... Hungry freaks, Daddy!

But to the bussiness.

I see some countering threads of discussion here which both seem to have their justification. If we talk of tactics on Day1 it surely gives a hiding place for the wolves toDay but then again it binds their hands on days to come! If they say something toDay and act differently on the Days to come, we will see it! I mean, any way the wind blows, there are signs of consistency and signs of playing the opportunistic way. These can be seen! The forefathers of our band have seen this all too clearly when they have been forced to go with the dark side, you know, the son of the monster magnet & stuff. Remember: the one who has lied is bound to stay consistent with the lie and the situations may turn very nasty with the liar if s/he wishes to sustain her/his believability. We can observe all this...

So there are more pro's than con's with having a public debate of our conduct, but I think the good outweight the bad. Partly because of the following.

Laying low, or just hunkering down, does not help anyone with a pure soul. Anyone can do that: just post a bit of nonsense or wail the fate of Sleepy and then fall silent.

It might help those who are not interested in the common good but only for themselves (see the citation of Franklin by Folwren above) or the wolves! Who would vote someone on the basis of a little meaningless message on the first Day? No one! We all think there are so many better reasons to lynch someone else (mainly a good-willing innocent who has tried to make a difference by making some actual points). That's just the way the wolves would like it to be and within which they would like to hide themselves...

Yeah, I have said this a many times, but I think I need to recapitulate it here. No, I don't think all the baddies are silent. Not at all! I've seen many a loud and dominating wolves in my family's history. I think the Seer should check them (there may be games when the Seer should take on with other tactics, depending of the personality of the Seer and the way the discussion is bent to, but as a general rule I think this holds) .

What I want to say is that the silence is the best hiding place for a wolf during the first Days and the best excuse for the wolves going after a loud innocent who could be of help later... The dynamics of the game are different on the first Days with little to go for than on the subsequent ones when there is something to take hold on!

So at least my band will concentrate toDay with all those Wovie Zowies that try to slip comfortably under the radar - and to the slips they might make.

That makes me to look at both Durelin and Glirdan more close so far. But surely it's early and lots of things will happen before the deadline.

But now we'll have to go and practise for awhile, because our band leader doesn't like it if we do nor reach his requirements. There's trouble every day with him...

EDIT: X-performed with Rune and The Ka
EDIT2: Adding Rune and the Ka to my list of "follow these"...

Celuien

09-28-2006, 06:55 PM

Back from studying my scores.

It seems to me that avoiding strategic discussion hurts the village more than the wolves. All we have to go on is strategy and open debate. We could all invent hidden strategies on work on independently, but then we aren't making the most of team work, which, in my personal opinion, we need to have to win as a village. Maybe day 1 chaos to early to work on being a team. But then again, odd behavior can manifest enough on day 1 to catch a wolf, if we're all talking and paying attention. The wolves can meet in secret to plot, and regardless of what we do, can work on using our strategy (or lack thereof) against us.

*shrugs*

I'll be around a little longer.

Rune Son of Bjarne

09-28-2006, 07:13 PM

I don't think anybody said we should not talk tactics, it was more that we should not agree on a way to do things that would enable the wolves to manipulate us.

I still have no clue what to say or do.

Folwren

09-28-2006, 07:22 PM

Well. . .it seems it would be wisest to plan some sort of procedure, and yet. . .when it comes down to it, how can a group plan something against hidden foes? What if we all plan some sort of strategy and one of the most involved planner is guilty himself? (Or herself.)

Why the crazy and random vote the THE Ka, Durelin? I really dislike random votes like that, but it makes me think that. . . that a wolf wouldn't do it. I don't know why I think it. But, why'd you vote for her?

Must go. May be back again this evening. . .

-- Folwren

Celuien

09-28-2006, 07:24 PM

I'd thought Menel suggested laying out how to find wolves, and Boro had said that doing that would let the wolves use that info against us.

My take is that listing the precise characteristics of what makes or does not make a wolf is probably a shaky idea. But not discussing tactics is also a bad idea. I'm going to try to strike a middle ground.

Any red flags I spot will be raised in retrospect so the monsters can't hide by having advance warning. In fact, I probably won't know what those flags are until I see them, being something of a gut feeling that leads to building a case person. :)

Eonwe

09-28-2006, 07:54 PM

Well, Menel's post (#16) sounds reasonable to me. Especailly the bit about not stepping on his blue suede shoes. Who would do something like that? Undoubtalby, only a wolf. Something to keep an eye out for...

Seriously though, there is that percistent problem. "Evidence" in werewolf games, almost always (expluding, of course, a seer dream) boils down to biases and assumptions - basically gut fealings. While those are certainly not bad, it takes me awhile to get a gut fealing of someone. Yes, of course this is werewolf, were the fur should fly, and the lynchings come often, but I do hate to see an innocent die. So I am always reluctant to throw in my lot with someone until I feal something about them. So basically what I'm trying to say is I'm gonna have to give this some time, for people to build up a track record.

And of course, I'm not nay-saying at all. On the contrary, were will my records come from, if not your debates? :p

And one last thing: while I do appreciate the validity of the loud wolf/silent wolf theorists, I don't put much stock there. You can never predict the wolf demographics....

I'll be on a while longer...

Glirdan

09-28-2006, 08:00 PM

Well, I am here and I must leave. (OOC - Like I said, RL stuff [parents kicking me off the computer, school]). But before I do, I will cast a vote and I will say now that it is mostly random because I have no serious suspicions. But my vote will be for

++Durelin

Because of the random vote for Ka. Honestly, that was probably the most random vote I have ever seen and it just doesn't sit right with me.

May we have the luck to find one of those Wolves and avenge Cowell.

Rune Son of Bjarne

09-28-2006, 08:17 PM

Ok I am off from tonight, I should be back in good time before the deadline (5 hours or so). I shall wait untill then before making random or non-random acusations. I might add that Glirdan have have given me some things to think about in his last post.

Boromir88

09-28-2006, 09:07 PM

I'd thought Menel suggested laying out how to find wolves, and Boro had said that doing that would let the wolves use that info against us.~Celuien
Perhaps it was a bit confusing, but Rune put my words better than myself...odd, huh?
I don't think anybody said we should not talk tactics, it was more that we should not agree on a way to do things that would enable the wolves to manipulate us.
Let me give you this poker analogy, you don't want your opponent to know your plan, or how you are playing. Beacuse, if they do you are too easy to predict and the other players and they will make you pay for it. I find Werewolf to be the same, I don't want the wolves knowing my mind, so I won't say what I find to be wolvish. Now, if something does look wolvish to me, I'm going to jump out and say so, but I won't discuss what I'm looking for in order to find wolves.

I agree with Rune, if we all collaborate and set out what we think wolves would do, then they will make us pay for it. It will make our moves too predictable.

And one last thing: while I do appreciate the validity of the loud wolf/silent wolf theorists, I don't put much stock there. You can never predict the wolf demographics....~Eonwe
That's the thing. Menel does make sense with that assumption, as that tends to be the pattern with most wolves. Problem is if we go with this assumption the wolves will go with a different strategy to play to our liking.

Before I go off to bed here, just some general comments about people so far.

I agree with Folwren's thoughts about Durelin. I don't like randomness, it doesn't serve any help to us. However, I never understand why people find the first random voter of the day to be a wolf.

Which leads me to Glirdan, who is making me wonder a bit.
But before I do, I will cast a vote and I will say now that it is mostly random because I have no serious suspicions. But my vote will be for

++Durelin

Because of the random vote for Ka (bold-my emphasis)
Let me get this straight Glirdan...you go after Durelin because of the random vote for Ka, but you yourself cast a 'random' vote for Durelin?Seems a bit hypocritical to me.

Menel, Eonwe, Folwren and Rune all seem sensible so far. I don't see any reason to think they are wolves.

THE Ka

09-28-2006, 10:04 PM

Gah, I wish I could stay longer, but due to RL circumstances (transportation, educational, family responsibilities,ect...), I will have to vote now or I'll be late, and that is just annoying for others and myself.

I'm not voting for Durelin, because of rather obvious reasons... :rolleyes: Robert Smith vs. Morrissey, it's a conflict as natural to the art of music if there ever was, and not worth my vote because it would be a waste, and spoil the running joke.

Anyways, I will not vote for those who have not shown up yet to our potluck of first-day hypothesises, because it wouldn't make sense as well. Since I have to leave now, well before the deadline, or the last split second before deadline to have the last remaining to post then. In short, another waste.

The only vote that has any reason on a first-day basis (if there is anything of actual reason in a first day... :rolleyes: ), that I might have to make is for Volo. I understand if they had to leave for RL reasons, I respect that, though they did post twice.
There is another reason besides this, that they seem to have too many hands out shaking other hands, or it looks a bit hasty how they made their conclusions so early.
Unfortunately, there never is anything for reason, or slight reason at that on the first day, but the haste and quick conclusions seems a little bit suspicious. I do not have anything definate in marble, or close at that, until later.

++Volo

Diamond18

09-29-2006, 12:34 AM

Unfortunate for Sleepy to die such a grusome death, but it had to happen sooner or later., the man made enemies right and left. I'm just surprise that it was Werewolves and not one of the many talentless yet angry hacks he's eviscerated over the years. Death's funny that way.

Oh well, he called my band (http://www.nickelcreek.com/music.htm) delightful, bless him. We were so happy to be invited to this event. Unfortunately the boys (http://www.nickelcreek.com/images/promophotos/house_clr.jpg) ran off with everyone else and left me all by myself with just a fiddle to fend off a pack of werewolves. Nice. Real nice.

As far as discussion goes... does anyone here actually have some stupendous out of the ordinary plan for taking on the wolves? *looks around* Yes/no? This is a fairly basic game, there's the Mytho but s/he won't be mixing things up till Day 2 so for now s/he is a non-factor. So, I mean, aren't we all going to just do what we normally do on Day 1's? Seems so, from the look of things so far. You've got your loud vs quiet points made, then there's the let's-discuss-tactics-no-let's-not-what-are-we-talking-about-anyway debate, add a little incharacter interaction, some early random votes, and a partridge in a pear tree with cinnamon for flavor. I think I'll strangle the partidge with a fiddle string and roast it for dinner though, so that takes care of that.

I'll be around closer to deadline, so luckily I don't have to vote too terribly early, for once. I can't promise I'll have a really good reason for whoever I end up voting for, but I should be able to base it on something other than character or what have you.

For now, it seems to me that the people who've voted so far, and voted fairly randomly, had no choice but to do so. So those of us who have the luxury of waiting around and reading more posts shouldn't really be getting our undies in a bunch over the level of random in each vote. In other words, I don't think Durelin or Glirdan are particularly good lynch candidates. In fact Glirdan's vote wasn't even random, it was just based on extremely thin reasoning. But then, hello, Day 1, early.

Macalaure

09-29-2006, 02:39 AM

Hello and good morning, fellow bands and singers. Or should I say mourning? Sleepy is gone and we are left, soon to be gone as well, if we don't watch our path - and our fellows.

I couldn't have put it better than Di. This is an extremely Day-One-ish Day One so far. The only thing missing would be someone claiming to hate Day-Ones. Would one of the wolves please act foolish so that we can spot him/her? No? A pity...

I don't have anything more to add right now. Discussing tactics is nice, but since never ever all of us will agree on one, it pretty much leads nowhere.
So, no one seems wolfish to me at this early point. Hope that will change. See ya!

Thinlómien

09-29-2006, 03:57 AM

Alas for poor Sleepy Cowell. He was surely not the nicest person on earth but didn't deserve death.

*a mourning song with a didgeridoo*

Folwren's first post caught my attention. And don't try to derive any strange and twisted meaning out of this first post be cause there isn't any.Hmmm? Weirdly said, made me wary of her... Somehow over-defensive maybe? But she's been making sense otherwise, so maybe I'm just imagining things. (A wolf can make sense and sound convincing too, though, it has been proved in a few games...) I don't know what to think of her, but I guess that I won't be voting her today (she contributes), but I'll keep an eye on her, at least before she explains that statement of hers.

Glirdy certainly flip-flops, but I of all people won't be accusing him for it. :p After all, if one tries to make a reasonable vote on Day One before even a half of the day has passed the result is most probably that the reasoning is quite weak and thus the vote is quite "random". A weakly reasoning-based vote is however very different from a random one that has no reason - even a weak one - behind it at all (like Durelin's). Hopefully that made sense. I don't see Glirdan or Durelin as very suspicious ones (Durelin, as far as I know, plays normally like that) though certainly not as sure innocents either ie their behaviour gives me no clue of their roles.

That's all I have to say right now, except I could echo Mac that no one seems particularly suspicious.

Nogrod

09-29-2006, 04:02 AM

Would one of the wolves please act foolish so that we can spot him/her? No? A pity...Well, we just might have something in here, Mother people...

I will cast a vote and I will say now that it is mostly random because I have no serious suspicions. But my vote will be for
++Durelin
Because of the random vote for Ka.Generally contradiction points towards lycantrophy. This is not even a bad contradiction, for it has been mellowed down with the "mostly".

But the contradiction as such is not the only reason for me to think about smelling a rat here. What I mean is.

Firstly. An innocent knows exactly why s/he is giving the vote and has no reason to hide it, be it an unsecure reasoning, a hunch or random or whatever. Moreover, early on Day1 there should be nothing tense in an innocents life so no reason to mess up with things.

Secondly. Wolves tend to make more mistakes or fumbles than innocents. This is totally understandable as the situation is tricky indeed, for unlike innocents, the wolves know the status of the one they vote. So every vote in that sense must be faked in a way or another. That it always harder than plainly saying what one thinks actually.

Thirdly. Two earlier points lead to wolves tending to over-act, trying to oversecure their "looking innocent" -image in front of their wolvery. And that's just what one could see Glirdy doing here.

As he can not say, that "as a wolf I will vote for this one innocent", so he must say something of the vote that is not true but which should sound innocent. But as a wolf is always a bit nervous, thinking constantly how s/he looks and how has s/he covered the tracks, it's easy to overdo it and actually defend one's (false) vote with two points that contradict one another.

Of the innocents only one with a very confused mind could do something like that, claiming to vote mostly random but still having a reason for the vote. But a wolf might just fumble this way.

Not much of a case, I admit. But the best I can make at the hour.

I'll be back later and hope to have something better that time.

EDIT: X-ed with Lommy

Celuien

09-29-2006, 04:38 AM

I really think that Glirdan is just being Glirdan. Equally, I think Durelin is being Durelin.

And I'm yet another who thinks that no one is looking particularly suspect right now.

Meneltarmacil

09-29-2006, 05:36 AM

I'm not too sure about Celuien myself. From what she said yesterday, she mainly repeats what was said and then says she will be going for the middle ground. I don't really find that extremely suspicious but something doesn't sit right...

(Meneltarmacil has left the building...but will return in a few hours.)

Thinlómien

09-29-2006, 06:15 AM

Okay, time for me to leave and vote.
I changed my mind about voting

++Folwren

She's over-careful. Besides the quote I provided earlier, this caught my eye too while rereading: I'm going to quote Boromir not because I'm accusing him or anything, but to make things more conveniently looked up.

I don't really suspect her, but she seems the most suspicious this far.

Nogrod's attack on Glirdan was a bit too aggressive and not very well-based (he must know Glirdy's style and besides, IMO Glirdy's behaviour is not that suspicious anyways - he uses the word 'random' in two different meanings in his post and that causes confusion, or that is how I see the matter) for my taste, but I'm not sure what to make of it.

Diamond didn't start with cuddly in-character bantering? I'm not sure what to make of this either, but it's nice to see her starting serious discussion this early. :)

Eonwe and Menel feel both pretty innocent to me at this early phase. (My opinion of Eonwe might not be very objective though since I'm so glad to see him return to a less-nonsensical playing style... :)) Menel's playing style is quite different from the last time I played with him (he was a wolf then). Of course, he can have learned avoiding wolvish slips from his latest game, but I'm inclined still to believe him innocent.

Boromir88

09-29-2006, 06:16 AM

Rune Son of Bjarne

09-29-2006, 06:22 AM

Something Crazy just happened, I just got a call. . So I have to go for a job inteview now !

That means I cannot give you the long and elaborate post that would revial all the Wolves, darn.

++Macalaure

For retty much just saying what Di said and nothing more.

Edit: X posted with Boro

Nogrod

09-29-2006, 06:28 AM

Preliminary thoughts about five hours before the deadline, subject to chance as the bands get to play more.

Menelteramacil and Boromir88 have been engaging in most honest sounding discussion. Some mighty wonders are needed to make me vote for either toDay.

Rune and Folwren have participated in the same discussion with points but more in a following role. Same holds especially to Celuien. That might be an ideal position for a wolf to hide in? But without further points against any one of them I'm not going to vote any of them toDay as I see them all as valuable asssets as innocents.

From Macalaure, Diamond18 and Thinlomien I would really like to hear more...

THE Ka I really can't say anything about.

Eonwe has been more vocal and non-random as earlier generation-Eonwes. What to make of it?

Volo feels a bit awkward. The Ka had a point in her vote: too many handshakes as to make friends from the very first moments? Or just wishing well when having nothing else to say?

Glirdan and Durelin have surely acted strangely and somewhat "non-productively", but as some people have suggested, they might just be themselves...

So if Glirdan and Durelin are not the wolves (which I think likely), then the wolves play pretty well. Too bad for us.

Back to the band training and giving all this some further thought...

EDIT: X-ed with a lot...

Celuien

09-29-2006, 06:54 AM

++ Volo

I feel like I just can't get a read on the posts, which makes me uncomfortable.

*off to work*

Volo

09-29-2006, 08:28 AM

After a lot of paperwork Volo came back to the hall where all the action was happening. He noticed two things that seemed wrong or at least he wasn't used to them: First he was described "'Grandfather' of European heavy metal" I wish!, this Sleepy guy must have mixed up the termes "heavy metal" with "power metal", Volo could easily be the grandson of heavy metal... The second wasn't even funny, people were going against him just because he was being friendly... "I understand that you are worried, but I find really little reason in voting somebody who just wanted to have a little chat..."

Volo took his guitar out and started playing something cheerful from his head to warm people up. He soon realized that this was useless and took out a piece of paper instead.

#5 Folwren just checking in.
#6 Menel telling us to think of something not completely random. Advising to think of a plan. This makes sence, but I don't feel like we should make a plan too openly, what does a plan even mean here?
#7 Boro said something like that too about #6
#8 Volo messing around
#9 Eonwe talking something random
#10 Volo told Eonwe not to be random, Boro that he speaks true and something without real meaning to Menel.
#11 Folwren speaks true about post #7, we have to discuss something, but not make too much of a "plan"...
#12 Menel agreeing with Folwren. At this I feel like there has been a misunderstanding, at least I didn't understand Boro's post like asking for complete silence... I feel that Folwren twisted Boro's words.
#13 Glirdan playing stupid.
#14 Celuien against randomness.
#15 Durelin says something random and a random vote on THE Ka
#16 Menel telling the seer to check the talkative people, makes sence, talkative wolves are dangerous, or so I have read. Also tells about the wolves that try to blend in and about the ones that aren't talkative. Silent wolves are rather dull, but I doubt that they can do much in the end... But with this post I agree.
#17 Boro talks about the importance of trust. Yes, I think it is needed, but it can also be misleading.
#18 Rune just telling that he is
#19 THE Ka talking nonsence, a lot of nonsence can be a good cover for a wolf...
#20 Nogrod telling that silence isn't good (I agree). Tells us to observe the people for changing their mind to stay with the mass. Agrees with Menel about seer checking the talkative.
#21 Celuien talks about the importance of strategy, but tells not to say everything. I agree, but this is post already "staying with the mass" as I see it...
#22 Rune cleared this at last, I mean the talk about Boro saying to be silent.
#23 Folwren has made good points. Dislikes random votes, but says that wolves wouldn't do that. I think I'll trust her for now.
#24 Celuien repeats the same thing about talking about strategy, but not too openly...
#25 Eonwe tells that people don't sometimes have the guts for suspicions. Also tells that the silent/loud wolf theory isn't to be trusted... I think that the silent wolf isn't so dangerous. I would trust more a change in playing style as the mark of the wolf.
#26 Glirdan sends a vote for Durelin because of the random vote for THE Ka. I agree that those randomers have no right to be here, but RL stuff might be the reason in such cases on day1...
#27 Rune goes off and says about getting interested about post 26.
#28 Boro talks a lot. Agrees with post #22. Tells about plans being bad and says that an agressive attack will more surely get us rid of the wolves. Agrees with #25, I personally don't. Doesn't like randomness, somewhat suspects Durelin and Glirdan. Trusts Menel, Eonwe, Folwren and Rune. I tend to agree on those four.
#26 THE Ka changes her vote for Volo, without reason I can understand, goes away.
#27 Dia tells us what we have been saying, the ordinary day1 talk without much reason. Doesn't suspect Durelin and Glirdan badly. Waits.
#28 Mac agrees with Dia.
#29 Lommy somewhat suspects Folwren for being overdefencive, but won't wote her because she contributes, good reason for day one. Doesn't suspect Durelin and Glirdan because they are like that, she knows better than I about that, haven't met either of them earlier in a trap like this.
#30 Nogrod smells a rat in Glirdans vote. Tells that wolves usually make more mistakes than innocents. I think that this is true, but Nogrod himself didn't make many mistakes too easily spotted in the last battle for justice.
#31 Celuien tells that Glirdan and Durelin are just being themselves.
#32 Menel suspects Celuien and I tend to agree, she has been talking rather strangly. Leaves for few hours.
#33 Lommy votes Folwren because of overdefencive behavior. Says that Nogrod was too agressive with his accusation for Glirdan. Jokes about Dia. Somewhat trusts Eonwe and Menel.
#34 Boro says about a change in Mac's behavior. Mac has only one post so I won't say much about this...
#35 Rune votes Mac and agrees with Dia.
#36 Nogrod somewhat trusts Menel and Boro, both have made good ponts. The same seems to go for Rune, Folwren and Celuien. Wants to hear more from Mac, Dia and Lommy. Suspects Volo for being too nice. Can't say anything about THE Ka. Notices a change in Eonwes behavior. Glirdan and Durelin seem strange but themselves.
#37 Celuien votes Volo and leaves.
#38 Volo says what people have said and goes off somewhere (to koiralenkki).

I might not be able to vote, hope that I can. (Don't change the day until I wote, I might be just a bit late.)

Eonwe

09-29-2006, 08:45 AM

(My opinion of Eonwe might not be very objective though since I'm so glad to see him return to a less-nonsensical playing style...

Don't make me change back to my Donkey Avatar, Lommy! ;)

Just got on this morning, so I'll start back and read everything and try and vote...

Meneltarmacil

09-29-2006, 08:51 AM

Well, I've looked over Folwren's posts so far, prompted by suspicions people had mentioned.

Folwren does seem unusually defensive in her early posts, and flip-flopped somewhat on the issue of discussing strategy. It's quite likely she's a wolf trying to cover her tracks.

My vote will probably be either for Folwren or Celuien toDay, and I'm inclined to suspect Folwren more. I'll be back around 11:30 to vote. Don't eat all my jelly doughnuts, please.

Folwren

09-29-2006, 08:58 AM

Ouch. My honor has been attacked! I guess it's not so terrible. It will hold up under any scrutiny, so long as I'm not lynched before I can be proven innocent.

Okay. So long with the theatrics, I'm serious. Look, Lommy - I said not to try to take any twisted meaning out of my words. Didn't I say that? It was an awkward business making the first post. I couldn't tell what people would think. It was an ice breaking post and I had absolutely nothing to say.

Over-defensive? Well, yes, maybe so. I've been accused of that many, many times before. But see here, being an innocent, I have no guilty conscience, therefore I don't feel guilty about arguing my way out of a tight spot (or an imaginary tight spot) because I don't have to lie about it. Also, being an innocent, I'm scared to death that someone, as you have done, will point their finger at me, take their attention off the real wolves, and kill a friend. That's why I'm attomatically defensive.

But! The vote has been cast and I am too late.

(By the way, in this game, often when people quote someone else it's because they're accusing them. I wanted to make very sure that Boromir (and everyone else) knew I wasn't accusing him.)

Alright. Having spoken in my defense at length, I will get on.

I couldn't have put it better than Di. This is an extremely Day-One-ish Day One so far. The only thing missing would be someone claiming to hate Day-Ones. Would one of the wolves please act foolish so that we can spot him/her? No? A pity...

Well, yes, how else is Day-One supposed to act like? Day-Two? And what's the shame in saying that one hates Day-Ones? I do hate them. They're such a waste of blasted time. Lots of random votes floating around, nothing stable to base one's thoughts on. . .not even a real death. An innocent is more likely to be killed this first day than any of the following!

There, now that I've said that I hate Day-Ones, can someone please tell me why it was a wolvish and foolish thing to do?

Thoughts based on next to nothing:

Diamond begins here career saying that Sleepy had it coming:

Unfortunate for Sleepy to die such a grusome death, but it had to happen sooner or later., the man made enemies right and left. I'm just surprise that it was Werewolves and not one of the many talentless yet angry hacks he's eviscerated over the years. Death's funny that way.

As though it were not a surprised he was killed! Excusing the wolves - they did someone else’s job, eh? Tell me, were you one of those people who might have wanted to get him back? Well, well, perhaps it was just an attempt to be witty.

Macalaure went on to say nothing new. Agreeing with Diamond and asking one of the wolves to say how much they disliked Day-Ones. Well, I've done that, and I'm not a wolf, and I don't know why that would prove anyone a wolf. I just don't get it.

Lommy goes firing off and trying to make a strange and twisted meaning out of my first post after I said not to. Really, that's not very kind. I had hoped, from reading your first post, that you would let me speak in my defense before you voted, but I was too late. I might have given you a polite bow, in fact I was intending to, but. . .no.

Still question marks on Durelin. I can't help asking - Why?

And Glirdan's vote. . .but that wasn't as random as Durelin's.

No comment on Volo or Celuien.

Boromir and Menel seem like honest and smart chaps. There's a ring of honesty in their posts, at least so far. But they're both really good players, so I'm inclined to be careful with both of them.

THE Ka? No comments. . .except I don't like her new Avatar. She talked some and seemed to have something to say, which is better than having nothing to say. At least later in the game we'll have something to read when we're worried about her.

Nogrod. . .don't know. Nothing suspicious, how's that?

Same with Rune and Eonwe. No, I'll take that back. I found that wamy guitary thing-a-ding of Eonwe's very strange. Strange and attention bringing. Maybe means she's not a wolf? (Are you a she? Or a he? I don't know and am apprehensive about making a mistake.)

There, I believe that is all. I'm sorry if I missed anyone. It was purely unintentional. Don't get offended if I forgot you.

There are. . .gosh, two hours left. Such little time! Is anyone even going to be here to read what I just spent and hour typing up? So many people have already voted and left! Well, tomorrow will come around and then maybe we'll be able to use this. . .

-- Folwren

(Cross posted with the last three people. Now to read those posts. . .I saw my name at the quick glance. . .hope nothing bad comes of it.)

Eonwe

09-29-2006, 09:01 AM

Well, Menel, I'd have to say I think Folwren's arguments are pretty consistent. All she's doing is supporting both sides of an unanswerable arguemnt....if you see what I mean. As for her first post, I'm willing to take it at face value....

One other thing. I'm curious how Sleepy will work this.

No retracable votes.

++THE Ka

++Volo

[edit] Cross posted with Folwren. I am indeed, a he. Haven't we been over this before? ;) (just kidding!)

[edit#2] erm...what just happened there. sry for the brain fart, Durelin...??? *confused*

Macalaure

09-29-2006, 09:02 AM

Mac is raising my attention now. He comes in posts that he agrees with Diamond and says this has been a very 'Day-one-ish Day one' so far. What did you expect it to be like? Just seems something's off from the Mac my ancestors were used to. Maybe it's just early, but Mac is usually one of those solid innocents that is willing to help. Now, I don't get that same feeling, just seems like he's commenting about how ordinary this Day 1 has been and we won't all agree on the same strategy, so discussing one will not benefit us.Relax, Boro, that was only my first post. If you look up your lorebook, you will see that I rarely make sense in that one. The villages of my ancestors all had pretty spectacular Day-Ones, all ending with the death of a wolf or with the revelation of the seer, so maybe that's it. I am willing to help, but I don't know how to at the moment. The suspicions given so far don't convince me. Nogrod's case against Glirdan is not too aggressive to me, as Lommy said, but it's a little too condemning. Sometimes wolves use heavy words for little suspicion. That little bit is all I have right now...

edit: crossed with Folwren and Eonwe

Boromir88

09-29-2006, 09:10 AM

My vote will have to come a little earlier than I anticipated, as this day has been moved back and hour...but no harm done :) ). Here's what we have so far.

Menel seems fine. It's Day 1, there's no sense in concocting some sort of twisted wierd possibility of a werewolf plot on Day 1 when we have no other information.

Same goes for Nogrod. It's possible one of these two 'talkers' is a wolf, but I don't see a reason to think them wolves as of yet.

I was expecting more of Rune today, as he said he would, but didn't see it. I fully understand though, that unexpected things come up, we all get busy dealing with our fan-mail and what not...I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt today.

I like Ka's reasoning against Volo. It speaks towards her innocence. As far as it being Day 1, it's really one of the most sensible arguments against someone I have seen.

Thinlomien has pointed out some good things about Folwren. Stuff that I didn't realize before. So, like Ka, speaks towards her innocence, for today.

Eonwe brings up a good point about 'evidence.' What evidence is there, besides a Seer dream and our own opinions that often times can be narrow-minded.

Mathematically speaking, it's likely that one of the people listed above is a wolf. However, as far as today is concerned, there's no reason to waste my vote on the people I don't have a reason to think to suspect. But, I do reserve the right to change thpse opinions in the future.

Durelin, Celuien, Diamond and Volo I'm unsure about.

It's always hard to get a read off of Diamond, which makes her dangerous as a wolf. Right now I find people to be more suspicious so, I most likely won't vote for Diamond today.

I'm going to keep an eye on Volo. I'm wary of voting for him today, because from what I remember is he was a rather shady and suspicious player on Day 1 in past villages, but he turned out to be one of the greatest assets the village had.

For Durelin, I'm not going to waste my vote on someone because they randomly voted on Day 1 (ehem Glirdan) :p . I have no reason to feel that she's innocent like the people at the beginning of my spiel.

Same thing goes for Celuien. I'll be watching her in the days to come, but right now am more worried about other singers.

Which leaves, Glirdan, Mac, and Folwren.

Perhaps, I spoke a little too hasty about Folwren, before. I agree with what Thinlomien has pointed out (and I had missed previously), Folwren seems a little too protective.

Mac, for the reasons I mentioned in my last post. Also, the behavior of 'discussing strategy is good, but it doesn't help us because no one will ever agree.' That just seems terribly awkward to me, saying it's good to do, but we won't agree, so it won't lead us anywhere.

I don't have good records on Glirdan's ancestors, as my family has had very little experience with him. Maybe he's just being Glirdan, but I'm unaware of that information. And still find his contradiction over 'random voting' to be suspicious.

One of these three will most likely get my vote which will be coming soon.

Edit: X-posted with a few people.

Folwren

09-29-2006, 09:11 AM

Oh, Menel, don't! For heaven's sake, don't vote for me! I'm not guilty!

And I wasn't wishy-washy on my opinions about coming up with some sort of strategy, was I? I certainly didn't mean to by - on my honor! I said from the beginning that it is impossible to make a plan behind the wolve's back because everything we say and do is in the open. I said that we should try to come to some understanding. . .a certain amount of conformity with some plan or net. I didn't make any suggestions, true, for the mere fact that I don't have any ideas.

I didn't mean to change my views on it. Really, trully, and honestly, I didn't. I think I did make one post without reading the posts before it. Ah, here - I have not read the posts between Post #15 and #23. Did my post (#23) make me sound wishy-washy? I'll go back and see and post again . . . if I think I need to defend myself.

-- Folwren

Eonwe

09-29-2006, 09:14 AM

Um, sorry bout that. I was writing down the votes, and it seems I've made at bit of a mistake. *embarrassed*

Here they are for real:

Durelin --> THE Ka
Glirdan --> Durelin
THE Ka --> Volo
Lommy --> Folwren
Rune --> Mac
Celuien --> Volo

Folwren

09-29-2006, 09:18 AM

[edit] Cross posted with Folwren. I am indeed, a he. Haven't we been over this before? ;) (just kidding!)

Lol, yes, I think we have been over itb efore. I'm so sorry.

-- Foley

Diamond18

09-29-2006, 09:19 AM

Well I'm back. I'm not sure what to say. There's nothing much concrete to work off of. I of course expected something big and dramatic to transpire. Ha ha, note sarcasm.

I guess the people who are standing out the most at this point are Nogrod, Folwren, and Mac. Nogrod always stands out and appears overly aggressive, so not sure if there's anything to make of it. Folwren seems highly defensive, but as I am not at all used to her style I suppose I must take her at face value when she says it's par for the course. At least, so long as no one who does know her better should contradict this. Mac's a little more interesting, he whole heartedly agreed with me about the uneventfulness of Day 1, and I had thought previously that he was opposed to poo-pooing Day 1's. Still, I hesitate to run screaming at him with sharp implements, because I can't be sure this is really OOC for him or just reflects the particular slowness of this day. I don't know. If I had to vote right now I'd probably vote for Mac, just because he's one person I would not have predicted would agree with me strongly, yet he did just that. I don't like it, though, as this is little more than a gut feeling vote.

Well, there's 40 minutes yet and maybe a re-reading will smack me in the face with something stupendous.

Edit: x-posted with Folwren, Eonwe, Folwren, and Boro.

Macalaure

09-29-2006, 09:29 AM

Macalaure went on to say nothing new. Agreeing with Diamond and asking one of the wolves to say how much they disliked Day-Ones. Well, I've done that, and I'm not a wolf, and I don't know why that would prove anyone a wolf. I just don't get it.I didn't say that. I said I missed anybody saying they hate Day-Ones. There's nothing wrong with that, of course, I was just missing it.
So, thank you, Folwren. Now I'm happy. :D

hmmm, I just re-read my first post. I fear it's quite easy to misunderstand. My bad.

Mac, for the reasons I mentioned in my last post. Also, the behavior of 'discussing strategy is good, but it doesn't help us because no one will ever agree.' That just seems terribly awkward to me, saying it's good to do, but we won't agree, so it won't lead us anywhere.Heck, today seems to be 'Let's all misunderstand Mac'-Day.
I said it's nice, not good. It's better than not talking at all. Maybe I'm wrong in this, but I have never seen any strategy put into practice, because there are always some who disagree with it and some who don't care (umm..). As soon as Day 2 dawns all Day-One tactics and strategies are usually forgotten, because we finally have things to go for.
As I said, my lore is little, maybe I'm wrong.

Eonwe

09-29-2006, 09:31 AM

Well, I dunno. I'm suffering from a bad case of first-day blahs. Either that, or I'm too dang open-minded about people's posting. I really need to work on being more judgmental if I'm ever to succeed at WereWolf. ;)

I guess I'm thinking about four options.

1) Vote at random. (I've done this before, and it hasn't been very appreciated...)
2) Not vote. (see above, lol)
3) Vote to help Folwren. (really amounts to a random vote, just a bit more ... not random)
4) Vote randomly in the list of already voted for.

So I guess I'm down to a random vote, eh? ...meh...

Well hows this, I'll randomly choose from the numbers, and then follow that plan? :rolleyes:

By the way Diamond, we have till 1 pm today. Remember Sleepy said it will end at 1 pm today.

Boromir88

09-29-2006, 09:33 AM

I have to go with my gut. And it's time for me to go...so

++Mac

Folwren

09-29-2006, 09:38 AM

By the way Diamond, we have till 1 pm today. Remember Sleepy said it will end at 1 pm today.

Aye, aye, that's right. So, there's still approximately 1 hour and 20 minutes remaining.

Boromir, thanks.

-- Folwren

Eonwe

09-29-2006, 09:41 AM

Fine I'm gonna vote for the 9th person on Sleepy's list.

Sorry Nogrod...

++Nogrod

Now, I've got to go do some integration by parts....

Edit: Sir Eonwe...I like that... jk

Meneltarmacil

09-29-2006, 09:41 AM

I'm sorry, Folwren. It just seems that the way you've been rather frantically trying to defend yourself is making you look suspicious. Actually, it was your statement that we shouldn't read any twisted meaning into your words that was suspicious. It was a typical Day One post; why would we need to be warned?

Once again, I am truly sorry if you're innocent, but I must speak my mind.

++Folwren

Meneltarmacil has left the building.

Nogrod

09-29-2006, 09:47 AM

Well, uh-uh... lots of things happening around here.

First of all I shall honour the ways of my forefathers and supply the situation.

The Ka 1 (Durelin I)
Durelin 1 (Glirdan II)
Volo 2 (Ka III, Celuien VI)
Folwren 2 (Lommy IV, Menel IX)
Macalaure 2 (Rune V, Boro VII)
Nogrod 1 (Eonwe VIII)

Five votes left, if I'm correct.

I'll go reading the stuff again...

Diamond18

09-29-2006, 09:54 AM

By the way Diamond, we have till 1 pm today. Remember Sleepy said it will end at 1 pm today.

Ah. Thanks... I didn't notice that actually. Probably because it wasn't all in caps and flashing at me.

I'm not sure if I'll last the extra hour, however, as I'm extremely tired and should be heading to bed. We'll see. I've read over the thread again and found myself flip-flopping with every post... I believe I managed to condemn and excuse just about everyone and wound up with no solid suspects. I'm really tempted to vote for Rune because he's said the least. But seeing as he was called away by RL these seems like a cheap shot. I don't know. I'm tired. I'll think some more.

Nogrod

09-29-2006, 10:06 AM

The top three of the votes aligns with my suspicions, so I'll try to look at those people first.

Volo I'm a bit aware of, as his "defence" of himself seemed like trying to be useful without actually doing anything (making the scanty summary of the posts so far) and that has been considered quite wolvish, with a reason I daresay. But then again, he acted pretty "shady and suspicious" as Boro named it, already in his first game before this.

Mac surely looked suspicious in his first post but has come more like himself after it. Although I'm still not wholly convinced with his defences either. But with the same breath I must say that lynching an innocent Mac would be a bad thing indeed...

Folwren looks pretty suspicious. I would just like to add to the previous comments the following. Folwren seems to be one of those most lovable and nice Downers there ever is and so it might be quite a burden for her to play the Baddie... kind of leading to being overtly careful and almost apologetic?

PS. I think I have a different understanding of what counts as aggressive behaviour with Lommy and Di. :rolleyes:

Macalaure

09-29-2006, 10:12 AM

I'm at a complete loss about whom to vote for.

The ones I feel innocent right now are Menel, Thinlómien and Folwren. Folwren has attracted some suspicions, but I don't understand them. No wolf would be so extremely insecure on the first post of the first day to say what she said. Defensiveness alone is no reason for suspicion to me.

I have no idea about: Boromir, Glirdan (he's like he always is, to me), Celuien, Durelin (she's been weird, but we'll see tomorrow), Rune, Ka, Nogrod, Eonwe and Diamond.
That's a horribly long list...

The only one about which I am suspicious to a ridiculously small degree is Volo, because his summary doesn't sit well with me.

Diamond18

09-29-2006, 10:13 AM

Okay. I'm not going to make it. Seeing as no one's posted to make things lively in the last ten minutes, I'm falling asleep at the keyboard. I am most suspicious of Mac but really hesitant to vote for him, since I feel more like keeping an eye out than kicking him out of the game. Mainly, I wouldn't find what he said at all suspicious if I didn't remember him exhibiting more enthusiasm over day 1's before, or at least my swiss cheese memory gives me that impression. Folwren, the more I read her posts, seems more ballistic in her defense. Yet I'm equally hesitant to off her.

++Rune

He was quiet and, I feel, fairly hard to get a read on even before he left early, so of all the posters I feel the least "bad" about sending him out of the game. But then, he's not likely to get enough votes to leave, so, there's really nothing to feel bad about. Ha. Yeah, I'm leaving it to the others to break the Volo/Folwren/Mac tie. I'm evil that way. Also had to just think really hard to remember the names, so I really should go. Now.

edit: Xposted with Mac and Nogrod. I don't understand your PS, Noggie.

Macalaure

09-29-2006, 10:16 AM

Mainly, I wouldn't find what he said at all suspicious if I didn't remember him exhibiting more enthusiasm over day 1's before, or at least my swiss cheese memory gives me that impression.As I said, all my previous Day 1s were pretty eventful. I had no reason to complain.

Nogrod

09-29-2006, 10:29 AM

I've been rethinking Folwren for a while now. This is just drawing me crazy! I'm just quite out of any reasonable ideas here. Somehow her posts cry out wolvishness and then again no. I mean Mac had a point in saying that no wolf would show forwards such an extreme insecurity. What I mean: being a wolf and feeling insecure with the first post of the game, the most reasonable idea is not to make that first post in the first place! This somehow speaks in Folwren's favor...

Folwren

09-29-2006, 10:37 AM

Nogrod, please, please, just this round, give me the benefit of the doubt. I am not guilty. We're drawing so near to the end that one more vote for me may be the end!

Folwren looks pretty suspicious. I would just like to add to the previous comments the following. Folwren seems to be one of those most lovable and nice Downers there ever is and so it might be quite a burden for her to play the Baddie... kind of leading to being overtly careful and almost apologetic?

Thanks for the compliment, but it does little good here. I wanted to actually say - I haven't really been apologizing at all. I'm an innocent, and I'm not sorry. And if I were a wolf, I wouldn't be sorry then, either, except for having to be dis-honest. I've been defending myself to the best of my ability. You'll find I'm always like this if only once seriously accused. If the accusation can hold no water, I don't usually say much, but when Lommy questioned me. . .it was dangerous and I replied accordingly.

It will be a huge waste to kill me this first round.

-- Folwren

Nogrod

09-29-2006, 10:44 AM

Gah!

Four votes left (although Volo was not sure whether he would be back in time). It's basically anyone...

Maybe we should reconsider the "middle-men" as I suggested earlier, namely Rune and Celuien (I'm out with voting for Folwren now). They have trailed the discussion of Menel and Boro nicely. A good shady place for a wolf to pass behind the notice of everyone else?

Or then Volo? 15 minutes...

Nogrod

09-29-2006, 10:49 AM

Volo's last post about himself:
#38 Volo says what people have said and goes off somewhere (to koiralenkki).THat last one there, the "koiralenkki" means a walk with the dog (or jogging with the dog). Curious it would take him more than two and half hours as not to make it to the end?

I might vote Volo on this... Avoiding the discussion?

Volo

09-29-2006, 10:51 AM

Just getting a post ready.

Macalaure

09-29-2006, 10:52 AM

I wouldn't like to see a double(triple??)-lynching today. Therefore I wouldn't like to vote for somebody who has no vote yet.

Out of the ones who have one vote, I don't like to vote Nogrod since I find him increasingly innocent. I don't like to vote Rune (even though he voted me) because I want to hear more of him. The same holds for Ka and Durelin.

Out of the ones who have two votes, I don't like to vote for me and I don't like to vote for Folwren. This leaves me again with Volo, whom I could vote for though with a bad conscience and a bad feeling.

edit: crossed with Nogrod and Volo. Volo, hurry!

Nogrod

09-29-2006, 10:55 AM

Okay, I'll do it.

If you are an innocent extreme-sports man, I apologise, but 2½ hours with the dog outside when the heat is on in the WW-game just doesn't sound right. It sounds like avoiding the chance of making mistakes and that's something a wolf might wish to do...

++ Volo

EDIT (too late...): Didn't notice Volo being back!!!

Macalaure

09-29-2006, 10:57 AM

You could've waited that few more minutes, Nogrod... :rolleyes:

edit: didn't notice Nogrod editing

Nogrod

09-29-2006, 10:59 AM

Yes I could, but I know from experience that the very last minute tumult is normally going to end up in tears... :(

Macalaure

09-29-2006, 10:59 AM

OK, I'm sorry. The deadline's here and I will vote now.

++Volo

If you really are a wolf then this is going to be pure luck...

edit: ... but also fun! :p
editedit: I mean last minute tumult, not voting Volo.

Volo

09-29-2006, 11:00 AM

"Hard not to be friendly when I have always imagined myself as a friendly guy... But ok, I'll tell you what I think:

Menelteramacil: I find him an innocent, he has told his mind, even if the first post was rather strange to me, but maybe I understood it wrong. He hasn't made any great inventions (or I'm too blind to see them) but I agree with him about Celuien and Folwren. I feel safe about him.

Glirdan: Not much reason in his vote, but I too find Durelin's actions strange. I won't be voting him now.

Macalaure: I don't see the point you are making against him. Ok, he did agree really openly, but still... I find him rather innocent.

Diamond18: I don't see much great sence in her talk, (just like I don't in my own) but she hasn't been overlyanything. Maybe she just has a slow start (like I want to think of myself).

THE Ka: Here is one more person that hasn't contributed much. I find her vote rather strange (well sure, she's voting for me...), yes I was in a mood when I wanted to say something not saying anything bright. I don't find her too wolfish either.

Thinlomien: She has been active and found a weakness in Folwren that now I see quite clearly. I think of her as innocent.

Celuien: Now here is a strange one. She hasn't said anything good today, or then I'm too blind to see. She might be a wolf but today we can't vote her out really can we?

Eonwe: I'm finding her random accusations strange. She has said many things, but I see reason in only few of then. Again, I think I might have voted her if there had been more chance of lynching her.

Nogrod: I think he is innocent or he really changed his strategy from the last game.

Durelin: Strange vote, nothing more really. I can't see as innocent or wolf now.

Boromir88: Just like some of you have said he has been talking sence.

Folwren: Now here is the strange one, hasn't really said much except for own defence. I'll vote her...

Rune: RL problems, hasn't said much, but doesn't seem wolfish...

Well, here's this, ++Folwren. I'll just trust Lommy's reasoning. She is overly defensive. I hope I'll have more time to think tomorrow. Little time today because of certain things.

Folwren

09-29-2006, 11:02 AM

Sorry, no time. Pop sent a fax RIGHT at voting time.

++Volo

To save my own skin.

Sleepy Ranger

09-29-2006, 11:02 AM

Alright everyone, stop posting. Death shall be up shortly. ie; After I finish dinner.

Sleepy Ranger

09-29-2006, 12:47 PM

The musicians gathered around and formed a circle around Volo, the one they had chosen for death this day. As this was a musical fest he was permitted to play a final song. The musician grinned and lifted his guitar beginning to strum, a phantom band began to back him up. His grin widened as he began to play 'We Damn The Night'.

Blood on my pillow
Blood on my skin
Am I going mad
Or was this a dream?
There in the depth
The hollow souls wait
Voices surround me
Tempting my fate
Then out of nowhere
Figures in dark
Guarding my soul in the fight

We are strong we're alive
We have faith in his might
We believe in the everlasting plight
Anytime, anywhere we will always be there
We will fight for what's ours and what's right
We damn the night

Volo's grin had turned to a wicked and twisted smirk now. An evil look embraced his face, an evil aura touched his skin. He began to transform into a hideous and large creature. He snarled at the rest and continued the song, the phantom band playing to perfection.

Out in the blackness
Shivering cold
Doubt takes on shape
Fear the unknown
Eyes of the fallen
Piercing their glance
Whispers of doom
Left without chance
Then out of nowhere
Figures in dark
Shield my soul in the fight

We are strong we're alive
We have faith in his might
We believe in the everlasting plight
Anytime, anywhere we will always be there
We will fight for what's ours and what's right
We damn the night

We damn the night...

He dropped his guitar as the song ended and dropped to all fours. He arched his back and prepared to spring at the unprepared stars but instead he jumped over them. "He's getting away! After him!" Shouted out Celuien who was the first to comprehend the situation. The thirteen ran after him, all the while trying to think of a way to be rid of the beast but alas, he was too fast for them. It seemed he would get away. That would be terrible. Just terrible.

The beast reached the edge of the valley and turned around. The rest, still a considerable distance away, halted. Volo raised himself, standing on just two legs. He was easily two feet taller than the tallest amongst them. They cowered back as the wolf let out a blood curling howl, which faintly resembled an evil laugh. "Happy Helloween!" He snarled out and sprang away, jumping out of the valley.

He thought he would get away, the musicians thought he would get away but no! He froze in mid air. The magic barrier set up by the trio seemed to work on them too. His expression changed to one of twisted agon as he transformed back to his human self. Blood began to blot just under his skin as he stayed there frozen in mid air as the rest watched on horrified.

Everyone watching knew Volo would not survive this but nobody had expected what happened to have. He popped. Simple as that. He did not explode, he did not drop dead he simply popped. Blood, body parts and organs splattered everywhere but nobody was sure how it happened. He just seemed to take in a deep breath and *pop*, he was all over them in bits and pieces. The musicians, covered in blood (and an unlucky few had an arm or foot on them) smiled at each other. Luck had favored them.

***

It is now night. Surviving two wolves may converse and PM me their chosen victim. Seer I need a name. Hunter and Ranger may converse and PM me their respective choices.

Night 1

Dead
Sleepy Cowell (Mod) - Beheaded and mounted on a wall.
Volo (Wolf) [Kai Hansen] - Popped by the magical barrier he helped set up.

Alive
Menelteramacil
Glirdan
Macalaure
Diamond18
THE Ka
Thinlomien
Celuien
Eonwe
Nogrod
Durelin
Boromir88
Folwren
Rune

***

As the survivors retreated to the Snowy Wolf Tavern a figure hidden in the shadows watched them. They had done well but in the end there could be just one winner. 'Greatest' was not something that could be shared. "Good night. Sleep well. Tomorrow will be another day and for better or worse, one of you may not be there to see it." The figure waited till they were all inside and then made his way to his hiding place under the shell.

Sleepy Ranger

09-30-2006, 10:11 AM

Fourteen arrived, thirteen went to sleep, twelve woke up. The musicians arrived in the lobby and saw a coffin awaiting them on the receptionist's desk. It was Celuien who finally summoned enough courage to open the coffin. The musicians crowded around and let out a horrified gasp when they saw what was inside. In the coffin lay Meneltarmacil.

He had his 'blue seude shoes' stuffed into his mouth and had what appeared to be the bumper of a truck wound around his neck. The survivors could only assume he had been strangled. That was not all though, Meneltarmacil appeared to be missing a lot of himself. His stomach had been neatly carved out and a bunch of body organs lined the coffin. "We have seen enough." Celuien said firmly and shut the lid. The musicians looked grimly at each other as they made their way to the shell. It appeared Meneltarmacil had left the building.

Dead
Sleepy Cowell (Mod) - Beheaded and mounted on a wall.
Volo (Wolf) [Kai Hansen] - Popped by the magical barrier he helped set up.
Meneltarmacil (Innocent) [Elvis Presley] - Suffocated and disected.

Alive
Glirdan
Macalaure
Diamond18
THE Ka
Thinlomien
Celuien
Eonwe
Nogrod
Durelin
Boromir88
Folwren
Rune

Rune Son of Bjarne

09-30-2006, 10:38 AM

I take that this means we can start then. . .

I would like to appologise for having to leave, but I could not miss out on a job inteview. I have a few thoughts that I will like to share and I will make sure to post some of them before I leave.

Glirdan

09-30-2006, 10:48 AM

Well, I must say that this isn't much of a shock. But I'm not thrilled about this either. It was a smart choice for the Wolves as Menel could be dangerous to them alive.

But I must adress something that's been bugging me.

Sorry, no time. Pop sent a fax RIGHT at voting time.

++Volo

To save my own skin. (Folwren)

Here are yesterDay's votes:

1)Durelin - The Ka (Ka 1)
2)Glirdan - Durelin (Ka 1, Durelin 1)
3)The Ka - Volo (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 1)
4)Lommy - Folwren (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 1, Folwren 1)
5)Rune - Mac (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 1, Folwren 1, Mac 1)
6)Celuien - Volo (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 2, Folwren 1, Mac 1)
7)Boro - Mac (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 2, Folwren 1, Mac 2)
8)Eonwe - Nogrod (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 2, Folwren 1, Mac 2, Nogrod 1)
9)Menel - Folwren (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 2, Folwren 2, Mac 2, Nogrod 1)
10)Di - Rune (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 2, Folwren 2, Mac 2, Nogrod 1, Rune 1)
11)Nogrod - Volo (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 3, Folwren 2, Mac 2, Nogrod 1, Rune 1)
12)Mac - Volo (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 4, Folwren 2, Mac 2, Nogrod 1, Rune 1)
13)Volo - Folwren (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 4, Folwren 3, Mac 2, Nogrod 1, Rune 1)
14)Folwren - Volo (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 5, Folwren 3, Mac 2, Nogrod 1, Rune 1)

At the time of her vote, Volo's death was already sealed. The only person who had to vote was her. It was a throwaway vote. Too safe in my opinion. She had anybody to vote for.

It's true that Volo turned out to be a Wolf. He voted Folwren in an attempt to save himself. How do we know that Folwren didn't vote him to make her look more innocent? She is deffinetly at the top of my suspect list.

I'm going to go back over all the posts and see if there's anything else that cathces my eye.

Durelin

09-30-2006, 10:52 AM

Well, I can't say I saw that one coming, nor do I expect the wolves did.

*mutters* Lucky guess, Morrissey...

Sadly, I feel like we can pretty much rule out THE KaMoz and Celuien...but not completely.

I guess we can do the same with Folwren, unless Volo and Folwren simply turned on each other... Or something...

Oh, yeah, btw, sorry for not being around. Day One has always been my sit back and observe day.

Anyway...

Mac seems the least right to me right now. His late vote for Volo would be excellent cover, but he doesn't even produce any reason at all!

And then there's this:

You could've waited that few more minutes, Nogrod... :rolleyes:

Hmm. A little...protective...? (Not the best word.) But perhaps too obvious.

I doubt Nogrod is a wolf.

Eonwe feels innocent to me. He seems too *carefree* in his playing style to be a wolf. Still, that could just be his 'strategy' no matter what he is.

Glirdan hasn't been much. Like me. Not quite right seeming, but not quite wrong seeming either. Yet.

Boro...same old Boro. Into it, analysing and creating lists to his heart's content.

Diamond has been Diamondish, and I think her vote for Rune actually points more towards innocence than anything else. Rather than actually trying to bring someone ahead of someone else, which she was surely in the position to do, she steps back, not wanting guilt on her hands. I can definitely relate to that.

Rune hasn't been much yet. Though he's been akin to a certain sort of Rune I knew...a hairy and fanged one. Still, he seems the type to come across rather the same no matter what his true identity.

Lommy...little from her, and the fact that she pointed out Folwren really doesn't tell us much.

Now here's a funny thought:

Volo, Mac, and Folwren are our three wolves. :p

Edit: Cross-posted with Rune and Glirdan.

Boromir88

09-30-2006, 10:52 AM

Dead wolf and dead Menel.

Hmmm, what to make of this. It's about time we start telling these wolves Don't Come around here No More (http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Tom-Petty/Don-t-Come-Around-Here-No-More.html).

Well, I'm not inclined to believe Folwren's innocent. My guess is they want to set up Folwren for an easy kill today as he had attracted quite a bit of suspicion yesterday. But, based upon the craziness that happened at the end of the day yesterday, I get the feeling Folwren's innocent.

That's all for now, I think we should look through Volo's posts, that is the best thing for us to use as information for today. I used to take voting records to be strong evidence for someone's innocence, but since someone (:cough: Father Nogrod :cough: ). I have a lesser amount of trust in using votes to form a judgement of who's innocent and who's not.

Edit: x-posted with Durelin and Glirdan

Rune Son of Bjarne

09-30-2006, 11:08 AM

Let me first of all clear up a miss understanding made by Volo. I did not say that I agreed with Di I said that was what Mac did and nothing more and that was my reason for voting Mac. . . I think I would have done the same if I had been able to stay around. I would not have voted Volo, I am sure.

I was unsure about menel, so from that perspective this was a good kill for me.

Nogrod for me is hard to get a read on, wich is ironic as he writes a whole novel in each post.

I find Glirdans vote suspiciouse, because it was such an easy one. I hope you understand. It was kind of voting for Nilp on day 1.

I have a chief suspect, but I need to observe the person for a bit to figure out if my theory holds water. . .

Rune Son of Bjarne

09-30-2006, 11:38 AM

I think voting Flowren would be a mistake, I have often shared the same fear as her about posting the very first posy. Only to often have I seen people get lynched because people read to much into such a comment. (Including my own great grandfather)

I don't find Di to seem innocent, I doubt a wolf would dare to throw a vote away like that.

1. It is likely to atracted attention
2. they could have saved their fellow wolf and maybe even make it look inoccent.

I also think Celuin a inoccent, she has done nothing particular wolfish in my view and she did vote for Volo as number 2, with the chance to start a bandwagon. . . I normaly don't base my suspicions on votes, but I always take them into considerations.

I will, check in again in 30 min and then I have to leave for tonight (RL), I should be online in the hours before the deadline, but not in the last hour.

Glirdan

09-30-2006, 11:38 AM

Okay, going over Folwern's posts I found things that struck me as....well, odd.

A very, very shocking beginning. Being beheaded is not a very good thing. I'm rather shocked that. . .that would have happened. . .so soon. You'd think the villains would wait a few deaths later to get gruesome.

So what, you expected a murder? Is it because you're one of them planning it and your guilty conscious is trying to get out?

And don't try to derive any strange and twisted meaning out of this first post be cause there isn't any.

And why would you go and say that? Is it because there was something strange and twisted in the post?? Hmmmm....

I'm going to quote Boromir not because I'm accusing him or anything, but to make things more conveniently looked up.

This is honestly the wierdest thing you have said yet. Why would you say that? It's fine to quote people. Look at me! I'm doing it right now!! This scentence really strikes me as suspicious. It's like you're hiding something again and your concious(sp? [Ihonestly think I'm spelling that wrong]) is fighting to break out.

Look, Lommy - I said not to try to take any twisted meaning out of my words. Didn't I say that? It was an awkward business making the first post. I couldn't tell what people would think. It was an ice breaking post and I had absolutely nothing to say.

And again, why would you say "I said not to try to take any twisted meaning out of my words." If anything, that makes you look more suspicous.

Over-defensive? Well, yes, maybe so. I've been accused of that many, many times before. But see here, being an innocent, I have no guilty conscience, therefore I don't feel guilty about arguing my way out of a tight spot (or an imaginary tight spot) because I don't have to lie about it. Also, being an innocent, I'm scared to death that someone, as you have done, will point their finger at me, take their attention off the real wolves, and kill a friend. That's why I'm attomatically defensive.

I bolded the part I really want to talk about here. The problem with that is that we don't know who the Wolves are. We don't know if we can trust you. How do we know that you're not a Wolf?

Nogrod, please, please, just this round, give me the benefit of the doubt. I am not guilty. We're drawing so near to the end that one more vote for me may be the end!

This sounds like a plea of a Wolf trying to stay alive and attack more innocents. I really don't like it. If you're as innocent as you say you are Folwren, why would you have cared about being lynched? I personally would feel like a sacrifice, a way to get closer to finding the Wolves. This really sounds like a Wolf plea to me.

Which brings me all the way back to her throwaway vote.

Hmmm, I'll be around if you need me.

Folwren

09-30-2006, 11:47 AM

I am sorry that it was Menel who died. He voted for me yesterday, but I'm willing to forgive him of that. I liked him and he made sense.

At the time of her vote, Volo's death was already sealed. The only person who had to vote was her. It was a throwaway vote. Too safe in my opinion. She had anybody to vote for.

It's true that Volo turned out to be a Wolf. He voted Folwren in an attempt to save himself. How do we know that Folwren didn't vote him to make her look more innocent? She is deffinetly at the top of my suspect list.

*deep deep deep sigh* I survived yesterday, gasping, with my head barely above water (I thought) and thought I'd cleared the hurdle, only to find I'm accused afresh in the morning.

Please allow me to explain more thoroughly what I meant when I said Pop sent a fax RIGHT (I meant 'RIGHT at', too) at closing time. . .

At fifteen minutes before voting time, I went for the computer to connect and stay posted until the end. I connected and had not yet gotten on the 'Downs when Pop hollers up from his office in the back 'I need to send a fax!!' Of course, I disconnected, allowing him the phone line. It was a 20 page fax!! And it took 20 minutes to send. Right at the exact time of voting, the fax gets through and the line is free (all the while, I'm really worried. I couldn't sit still, I thought my life was on the line, I had no idea how those last votes were going to go). So, come time, I finally manage to connect, I rush as fast as I can to the thread, without waiting for it to load (anyone who has dial up knows how long things can take to load), type down my vote, and post it. LESS THAN A MINUTE LATER Sleepy posts end of day.

Only after I voted did I run back and look at what transpired during those horrible minutes that Pop's fax was sending. I saw it hadn't been necessary that I vote, but it was just as well.

And there, my dear fellow, is my defense.

Now, I have no time left to explain anything. We were gone all morning picking up another horse and now there's lots of work to be done here at home. I will check in and out this afternoon and this evening I sincerely hope to have some time to write some thoughts.

Down with the wolves!

-- Folwren

Folwren

09-30-2006, 11:57 AM

Cross posted with Glirdan. I do not have time to completely read your post (I glanced through your arguments) and I have even less time to go through thorough arguments to deflect what you've said.

It's is an utter waste of time for you to be getting on me so much. If you want to know why I said the Boromir thing, go back and re-read my posts again and see what I've already said on the subject. You sited my explanation for the first quote you keep pulling up. Also, about my being an innocent and being scared to death - Why can't a person be honset here?!?! Seriously! I am the most talkative, most open, most wordy, most honest person here and I'm getting slammed for it! I am not trying to hide anything! Would a wolf, who's being hounded like this, talk so much? Would they? Stop it and think! THINK!

K. Please excuse me. I'm a little riled up. Tired and overwrought. I hope I haven't made things worse for myself but I have a horrible, sick feeling in my stomach that I just dug the hole a little bit deeper.

-- Folwren

Celuien

09-30-2006, 11:59 AM

Glirdy posted my customary vote recap. But that won't stop me from copying over the portion I find most interesting. ;)

6) Celuien - Volo (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 2, Folwren 1, Mac 1)
7) Boro - Mac (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 2, Folwren 1, Mac 2)
8) Eonwe - Nogrod (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 2, Folwren 1, Mac 2, Nogrod 1)
9) Menel - Folwren (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 2, Folwren 2, Mac 2, Nogrod 1)
10) Di - Rune (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 2, Folwren 2, Mac 2, Nogrod 1, Rune 1)
11) Nogrod - Volo (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 3, Folwren 2, Mac 2, Nogrod 1, Rune 1)
12) Mac - Volo (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 4, Folwren 2, Mac 2, Nogrod 1, Rune 1)
13) Volo - Folwren (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 4, Folwren 3, Mac 2, Nogrod 1, Rune 1)
14) Folwren - Volo (Ka 1, Durelin 1, Volo 5, Folwren 3, Mac 2, Nogrod 1, Rune 1)

Tie making and breaking:
Volo was the first to garner a second vote. A three-way tie (at 2 votes a piece) existed between Volo, Mac and Folwren after Menel's vote at number 9. Boromir was the other tie creator with a vote for Mac at number 7.

At that point, the field was wide open, and anyone could have been pushed into the lead. Nogrod and Mac then both voted for Volo, with Mac essentially making the deciding vote. For that reason, I'm inclined to think Mac is innocent. Had he voted for Folwren, Volo would have had a chance at escaping the vote. The same goes for Nogrod, who seemed more likely to vote for either Rune or me than for Volo until the last minute, when he tipped the balance against our deceased wolf.

Folwren doesn't necessarily feel guilty to me. In the flurry of votes, she might have thought that a vote for Volo was needed to save herself. And the frantic wish to stay alive doesn't have to mean that she was wolvishly trying to survive. Day 1 is a rotten time to go, even if you're ordinary. I'll watch her, but I'm not really getting a bad vibe from her.

And, actually, with Menel's death, I'm wondering about Boromir. I felt fairly certain of his innocence yesterday, but with his main opponent from yesterDay's debate gone, my attention had been attracted.

Folwren

09-30-2006, 12:00 PM

This sounds like a plea of a Wolf trying to stay alive and attack more innocents. I really don't like it. If you're as innocent as you say you are Folwren, why would you have cared about being lynched? I personally would feel like a sacrifice, a way to get closer to finding the Wolves. This really sounds like a Wolf plea to me.

I happen to like being alive, thank you very much. What is more, I think that someone who talks as much as I do and thinks a little bit about what I write will be more of an asset to the village than something who doesn't talk much and doesn't talk much sense when he does talk, as Volo appeared to do when he lived. As it turned out, he was a wolf.

Yes, yes, use that 'be more of an asset to the village' to tie me down better, if you so wish!

-- Folwren

Rune Son of Bjarne

09-30-2006, 12:14 PM

I will, be leaving now, so here is my parting shot.

Stop being after Folwren like this, am I really the only one who thinks she is too defencive to be a wolf. I know the opposite could be argued, but it simply attracts to much attention for a wolf to do this. At least under these sercumstances.

I don't know if I think that Glirdy is just being him self and on the wrong track or if he is a wolf praying on the obviouse and silly mistakes he can find.

Durelin

09-30-2006, 12:25 PM

Okay, Folwren's almost definitely innocent. No wolf would dare make such a scene... ;)

So, no, you're not the only one who thinks so, Rune. :D

Still, I don't want to say anything's absolute, of course... But let's focus on something new, if only for a change.

Celuien

09-30-2006, 12:26 PM

Am I really the only one who thinks she is too defencive to be a wolf.
No, you're not. After reading the defenses I crossed with, I'm thinking that she's probably innocent. What she said feels genuine.

But really, though I find myself disagreeing, I can't (and won't) fault Glirdy for going after her. It seems to me that he found a suspect and wanted answers. Silly mistakes are sometimes the only thing the village has to go on. *shrugs*

THE Ka

09-30-2006, 12:26 PM

Lucky guess, Morrissey...

Moz sings, "... We hate it when our friends become successful"

Anyways... :rolleyes:

That coffin is just... ugh, no one should go out in that style, especially in nice shoes. Obviously whoever did this has no sense of style, for one, but onto the other facts.

2. they could have saved their fellow wolf and maybe even make it look inoccent.

From personal past experience as playing a werewolf in my last game, there is usually one werewolf who has to take a dive for the sake of the others... Thus the 'fenris wolves'. It is also a tactic that is somewhat good at keeping the rest of the players still with without much a clue as to any connections, that is, if their fellow wolves don't blow the whole thing by being too defensive, or otherwise too friendly.

Speaking of that, it would be nice to check up on how everyone reacted to Volo being voted for.

Also, being an innocent, I'm scared to death that someone, as you have done, will point their finger at me, take their attention off the real wolves, and kill a friend. That's why I'm attomatically defensive.

Being defensive is a tricky ordeal. Either, it is a wolf who's a bit shaky at how things are going and trying to pull heart strings, or an innocent who is in a bit of a corner and doing the same. Hmmm, I would keep an eye on this.

To save my own skin.

I understand RL issues. Though, as an innocent, I wouldn't say that if I was caught in a corner. It doesn't seem very logical for a wolf to say that either, really. Sounds like a flustered reply, but a very suspicious one at that.

I'm beginning to see that maybe our wolves are not working together so well, but that depends on whether all of this flustering is not a cover up for it. Then again, wolves have the advantage at knowing whom they are in good arms with against others and how (hopefully) to act, while innocents are for themselves unless proven otherwise, which is rare. Either our wolves were scrambling yesterday, and had somewhat of a disarray, or all of this flustering is a neat diversion for confusion.

Whatever comes, I think I will have to go back and take more of a look at all of this when I can. Folwren's actions do not seem the best making for a wolf, or innocent, but mostly that of a wolf. Others in question, do not seem that easy to get by.

Glirdan

09-30-2006, 12:31 PM

Okay, I will accept Folwren's reasoning for her late vote. But that still doesn't completely ease me. Yes, it's true that this type of scene is a little too dramatic and exposing for a Wolf. But how do we know that that's what she wants us too think. I don't know. I look back in my lorebooks and it seems that my family and hers had crossed paths before. But from what my records can tell, her ancestors never acted in such a way and it disturbs me.

I'm still keeping my eye on her. There's just something about it that seems too...well, odd.

Boromir88

09-30-2006, 12:31 PM

Here's my thoughts on Menel's death.

1. He's a strong opponent against the wolves.

2. He was probably one of the only people yesterday that didn't attract any sort of suspicion what so ever. Everyone felt good about him, so the wolves wanted to get him out of the picture.

3. To set up for an easy lynch target today.

Call me a softy, but I've brought into Folwren's pleads. In the chaos and upped pace of the last minutes yesterday, it's understandable that Folwren was voting to save her life (eventhough if it turned out to be unnecessary).

Which leads me to Glirdan who has continued an attack on Folwren today. Since I find Folwren innocent, it's either that Glirdan is an innocent that fell into the wolves plan. Or he actually is a wolf pushing for Folwren's lynching. From what I know of Glirdan (which has been a very short history of records) he is the agressive attack type, so it wouldn't surprise me if he's a wolf in this situation.

Then there's Thinlomien, who got the ball rolling yesterday against Folwren. I had agreed with Thinlo's points, as because as far as Day 1's go it was one of the more sensible looking arguments. But, as the Day closed yesterday I grew wary of a vote against Folwren (for rather obvious reasons that I've made more clear today).

Though yesterday Thinlo's points made sense, today with more information that we now have, it's easy to take someone's words and fit your own meaning. I'm not saying you twist words around, but you twist people's intentions and feelings around to fit your own opinion. I mean a simple change as far as where you put a period can change the whole context and meaning of the sentence, or a section of writing. And since we can't read the tone of words in most cases, it's easy to form our own opinions that aren't necessarily correct.

I would like to hear from Thinlo as I have a feeling that she slyly guided supsicion towards Folwren and now has let other people lead the attacks against her.

Also, I'm considering this....Those who voted for Folwren:

1. Thinlolmien
2. Menel (dead- innocent)
3. Volo (dead-wolf)

Is it possible that Thinlo is also a wolf here? She got the ball rolling with some convincing looking arguments, as far as Day 1 goes, and a good wolf can do that. Menel bought into it. Volo was obviously trying to save himself, so perhaps he voted a long with a wolf partner who had started the suspicion against Folwren.

I have a feeling that either Glirdan (who is the one continuing the attack today) or Thinlomien, (who started the attack) is a wolf. As I find it pretty obvious that Folwren's innocent.

Edit: X-posted with several people.

Macalaure

09-30-2006, 12:42 PM

Sorry for being so short today. We should be looking at the things Volo said and did yesterday. I hope I will later find the time to.

For now:
Mac seems the least right to me right now. His late vote for Volo would be excellent cover, but he doesn't even produce any reason at all!

And then there's this:

Quote:
You could've waited that few more minutes, Nogrod...

Hmm. A little...protective...? (Not the best word.) But perhaps too obvious.

First, I was the one who suggested that the remaining people voted Volo. Just because I happen to be the second of the actual voters doesn't make it a cover.

Second, yes, my reasons (given a few posts before what you quote) are weak, very weak in fact. The final reason was not so much against Volo, but more for the others.

Third, I don't know what you mean by 'protective'. As I said, I was all but convinced of Volo's guilt and so I hoped that his last post would have anything in it that would convince me either way. Then Nogrod decided not to wait (said he didn't see Volo's 'I'm going to post soon'), and I thought that was a pity...

I expect that, by the time I come back much later, somebody has suspected me for being too defensive. :D

Eonwe

09-30-2006, 02:37 PM

Glirdan, I've gotta say, I think more highly of your werewolf skills than you're post (#85) would give you credit for. If you wanna go over some posting, make it a post were Folwren made some arguments, not just a ice-breaker post. You might as well pick up on my wamybar post and say "Well, the only one he didn't offer to check was himself! Ha, we've found our wolf, baby!"

I'm inclined to suspect Glirdan right now, but his behavior is so far out on a limb in my opinion, that I'm not sure if I should. :rolleyes:

I'll read somemore and post some more later.

Durelin

09-30-2006, 02:48 PM

All but convinced of his guilt, Mac? I don't know, perhaps you use such a prase more lightly than I do... :p

This is all you had to say about Volo:

The only one about which I am suspicious to a ridiculously small degree is Volo, because his summary doesn't sit well with me.

This leaves me again with Volo, whom I could vote for though with a bad conscience and a bad feeling.

Mostly your posts are a lot of "I don't want to vote for people," which is perfectly understandable (I feel that way all the time!)...but what's not is you coming back the next day, when you must defend yourself, and saying 'I was all but convinced of Volo's guilt.'

I'm not condemning you yet, don't worry. (And I haven't forgotten about everyone else yet, either.) But I find that disturbing.

Nogrod

09-30-2006, 03:00 PM

Okay, just a few points at first (I have a really bad Day today as I must be away less than 12 hours from now and need to have my night's sleep during the time).

I'm ready to take Folwren as an innocent for now. I came to that conclusion over the last hour of yesterDay as I went through her posting and am not ready to change it, at least with what Glirdy has brought against her.

Although I must say that I agree that my - admittedly thin - lorebook of Folwren's family that she isn't quite acting like her family-members have acted before.

But then there is something a bit bit strange with Macalaure. I'm sorry to say that as our families have had a history of being even-minded in many games before.

Why Mac you say: First, I was the one who suggested that the remaining people voted Volo. Just because I happen to be the second of the actual voters doesn't make it a cover.When it most obviously is not true? Let's look at the posts of the end of the Day1.

Volo I'm a bit aware of, as his "defence" of himself seemed like trying to be useful without actually doing anything (making the scanty summary of the posts so far) and that has been considered quite wolvish, with a reason I daresay. But then again, he acted pretty "shady and suspicious" as Boro named it, already in his first game before this.

The only one about which I am suspicious to a ridiculously small degree is Volo, because his summary doesn't sit well with me.

Maybe we should reconsider the "middle-men" as I suggested earlier, namely Rune and Celuien (I'm out with voting for Folwren now). They have trailed the discussion of Menel and Boro nicely. A good shady place for a wolf to pass behind the notice of everyone else?

Or then Volo? 15 minutes...

Volo's last post about himself:
Quote:
#38 Volo says what people have said and goes off somewhere (to koiralenkki).

THat last one there, the "koiralenkki" means a walk with the dog (or jogging with the dog). Curious it would take him more than two and half hours as not to make it to the end?

I might vote Volo on this... Avoiding the discussion?

Out of the ones who have two votes, I don't like to vote for me and I don't like to vote for Folwren. This leaves me again with Volo, whom I could vote for though with a bad conscience and a bad feeling.

Okay, I'll do it.

If you are an innocent extreme-sports man, I apologise, but 2½ hours with the dog outside when the heat is on in the WW-game just doesn't sound right. It sounds like avoiding the chance of making mistakes and that's something a wolf might wish to do...

++ Volo

You could've waited that few more minutes, Nogrod...

OK, I'm sorry. The deadline's here and I will vote now.

++Volo

If you really are a wolf then this is going to be pure luck...

edit: ... but also fun!
editedit: I mean last minute tumult, not voting Volo.

From this it is hard to figure out a coinstellation where Macalaure was the leading lyncher of Volo... So why do you want to say that you were? A wolf would have a reason for that, but why you. I know you are a capable and intelligent player, so what is the point? I must say that your defence of yourself has lighted lots of alarm-bells in my mind.

EDIT: X-ed with Durelin and agree with her a lot...

Boromir88

09-30-2006, 03:14 PM

Well I went through Volo's posts, so perhaps this may help a little bit.

Volo's first two posts, there really isn't much to go from. He's in character, and he agrees with Menel and myself. The Ka picks up on this and is the main proponent in Volo's lynching. Normally, this would put Ka in a very innocent looking position, however, due to recent circumstances my forefathers have been in, it could be a staged plan done by the wolves. Usually I don't like considering these whacky, sacrificial circumstances, but again the most recent experience makes me wary.

Now, I must ask myself is The Ka a person who would attempt to do this? For at least today, I'm willing to look at more suspicious looking things, than consider this possibility. But, I am more careful about so blindly trusting someone because of being influential in a wolf's demise. If anyone wonders why, just ask :cough: Nogrod :cough:. :D

So, taking a look at Volo's last posts, we can see what he said about each of the villagers:

Menelteramacil: I find him an innocent, he has told his mind, even if the first post was rather strange to me, but maybe I understood it wrong. He hasn't made any great inventions (or I'm too blind to see them) but I agree with him about Celuien and Folwren. I feel safe about him.
Menel is as we know, now innocent. This makes sense for a wolf as well. I think especially Volo, where I believe this is his first run as a wolf. He would want to try to attach himself to the more talkative-bunch and hopefully we get on his good side.

Glirdan: Not much reason in his vote, but I too find Durelin's actions strange. I won't be voting him now.
I don't know how much I can make here. He finds Glirdan and Durin's actions strange. It's possible that either one is a wolf and he he neither wanted attract a lot of suspicion towards one of them, nor did he want to defend one of them. So, it's kind of that 'I'll watch these two,' they're acting strange, but I won't vote for them.

Macalaure: I don't see the point you are making against him. Ok, he did agree really openly, but still... I find him rather innocent.
Mac was another one who gathered some suspicion yesterday (mostly by me it seems). Mac your defense at the end yesterday eased some of my doubts, but I'm still cautious. Something about you didn't seem right, maybe it was because you weren't exactly in that situation of Day 1 before, maybe not. Also, this looks like Volo is trying to deflect suspicion away from you. But as far as what took place at the end yesterday, you eased a little of my doubt.

Diamond18: I don't see much great sence in her talk, (just like I don't in my own) but she hasn't been overlyanything. Maybe she just has a slow start (like I want to think of myself).
This is another one hard to figure out. Probably because it's dealing with Diamond, of all the ancestors and history I have had with people, Diamond is probably just about as confusing to me as Gil-galad is. I've never been able to pin down such an eccentric character like Di, which makes her dangerous.

THE Ka: Here is one more person that hasn't contributed much. I find her vote rather strange (well sure, she's voting for me...), yes I was in a mood when I wanted to say something not saying anything bright. I don't find her too wolfish either.
It is true that The Ka did not participate much yesterday. But I would disagree with what Volo said here. Though she didn't talk a lot, she was one of the most helpful people yesterday in spotting Volo. So again, for today at least, Ka seems innocent.

Thinlomien: She has been active and found a weakness in Folwren that now I see quite clearly. I think of her as innocent.
Perhaps this is a wolf defense of another wolf? Trying to push for the lynching of Folwren? Though, it seemed a lot of people yesterday (myself included) found Thinlo's points reasonable. I know Thinlo won't be around a lot today, so I'm going to withhold my final judgement on her until I hear what she has to say.

Celuien: Now here is a strange one. She hasn't said anything good today, or then I'm too blind to see. She might be a wolf but today we can't vote her out really can we?
Suspects Celuien, she did attract a little suspicion yesterday. I'm not sure what to think of her today so far, she's going a long with the general feeling that Folwren is innocent. She was also one of Menel's suspects yesterday, but Menel was more convinced by Folwren's guilt. Perhaps she weas trying to get rid of Menel before he started getting suspicion against her?

Eonwe: I'm finding her random accusations strange. She has said many things, but I see reason in only few of then. Again, I think I might have voted her if there had been more chance of lynching her.
Volo said he would have voted for Eonwe had if more people would have thought the same. Volo was most concerned with saving his skin yesterday, so he couldn't vote for Eonwe. I'll get more to this later.

Nogrod: I think he is innocent or he really changed his strategy from the last game.
Thinks Nogrod's innocent. I was thinking the same, but so far Nogrod has been unusually quiet today. Maybe it's for RL reasons, but I would have expected Nogrod to have said something by now.

Durelin: Strange vote, nothing more really. I can't see as innocent or wolf now.
Unsure about Durelin, this is similar to what Volo said about Glirdan.

Folwren: Now here is the strange one, hasn't really said much except for own defence. I'll vote her...
Volo most likely went with Folwren because she was one of the more suspicious ones yesterday and was trying to save his own skin.

Rune: RL problems, hasn't said much, but doesn't seem wolfish...
Say RL has contributed to Rune's minor activity yesterday (which I agree). And puts Rune off of innocent.

Now I think the thing to figure out is would Volo be the type to put his partners as innocent, unsure about, or suspicious groups. With this being Volo's first wolf experience, he just doesn't seem like somebody who would like to bluff or trick, seems more conservative and consistant. So, I would think most likely he would put his partners as innocent, or unsure (more likely put them at unsure), and sort of seperate one partner from the other, like a usual wolf.

So,

Who Volo named as innocent:

Menel
Mac
The Ka
Thinlo
Nogrod
Rune

Who Volo was unsure about:

Glirdan
Diamond
Durelin

Who Volo thought was suspicious:

Folwren
Eonwe
Celuien

Taking all this mumbo into account. It's most likely there's at least one wolf amongst Volo's wide innocent list. The one I think seems to be the most wolfish in that group is Thinlo, for reasons stated earlier today. Possibly Mac, I want to see more of the Mac that I'm used to (which is the Mac that I saw at the end of the day yesterday).

I also am inclined to believe there is a wolf in that 'unsure category.' The most probable, to me, seems to be Glirdan, again for reasons stated earlier. He's backed down a little bit from Folwren, but still finds her 'uneasy.' That's a safe move for a wolf who's attack has seemed to fail and doesn't want to do a complete flip-flop.

There might be a wolf in that 'suspicious' category, I'm not going to remove that possibility. Of those, most suspicious looking perhaps is Celuien. As I said Menel suspected her yesterday, so wanted to get rid of him quickly. But for today, I don't know how Volo would act like as a wolf. He doesn't seem like the type that would be suspicious of a partner. So, that means most likely those three will not get my vote today, though of those three I'm most suspicious of Celuien.

Edit: X-posted with everyone up to Mac's last post.

Folwren

09-30-2006, 03:20 PM

Thank you, all of you who put in a good word for me. :)

I am inclined to think Mac is not a wolf. He didn't vote for me when he could have. At that time, it appeared that I had more doubtful stuff piling up against me than Volo did. . .I mean with what Lommy said. But Mac went with his gut feeling, it seemed. If he had been a wolf, he could have voted for me and assumed that Volo would have voted for me, too. . .and it may have turned into a double lynching if I hadn't gotten there in time. He wasn't defending Volo when he said 'You might have waited a few more minutes', he was just dreading Volo turning out to be an innocent.

I. . .I don't know about Glirdan. I was coming near disliking him when he attacked me as he did, so I'm not quite trusting myself to commenting on him yet.

Someone's mentioned Durelin being suspectable? She's spoken up for me, saying a wolf wouldn't cause such a scene. . .perhaps she's not a wolf? If she were, she'd probably harp on my defending myself so much and being so desperate to live would mean I was a wolf. Inclined to not think her a wolf. Also, she made a very random, very attention drawing first post and vote yesterday.

Boromir mentioned the three people who voted for me:

Lommy, Menel, and Volo. Menel was an innocent, he was killed. Volo was a wolf, he was lynched. Lommy. . .we have no idea what she is.

Now, I have to say, last night I was thinking, if Lommy were killed, having cast doubt on me, I would most certainly be suspected. I almost expected her to be killed, providing she's not a wolf. She wasn't killed, and Menel was - who also voted for me. Are they trying to frame me? Can Lommy and Glirdan both be wolves? Or is one only playing into the other's hand? Or am I wrong on both counts? Of course, it's possible.

However, consider. . .one of us is a Seer and one of us knows the identity of two people.

No more time.

-- Folwren

Celuien

09-30-2006, 03:36 PM

Might I point out, Boro, that Volo also named you as 'talking sense'? I presume that means he was listing you as innocent. Meaning that you might also be the wolf hidden in his broad innocent list.

I'd be interested in hearing more about why you find me suspicious. Is there anything other than that Volo suspected me and that Menel also found me suspicious?

Personally, I'd be cautious about using anything from Volo's last post. His fate was pretty well sealed at that time, and what he said probably aimed more to causing confusion or frantically trying to save himself than anything else. At any rate, a known wolf's village words are inherently untrustworthy.

As for Menel, the last thing I would do if I were a wolf accused by him would be to kill him at night. Too obvious, and I'm not that bold.

That's a safe move for a wolf who's attack has seemed to fail and doesn't want to do a complete flip-flop.
And also the expected move of an innocent who made a case and had it answered (partially) to his satisfaction. This process is all about making a case to find a wolf, waiting for an answer, and reevaluating. Seems like that's exactly what he did, so it doesn't raise a red flag for me. I find that I trust Glirdan. *shrugs*

Boromir88

09-30-2006, 03:45 PM

Might I point out, Boro, that Volo also named you as 'talking sense'? I presume that means he was listing you as innocent. Meaning that you might also be the wolf hidden in his broad innocent list.~Celuien
I didn't include myself because whatever I would say would obviously be seen as biased. I left that up for other people like yourself to interpret because there's no point on doing an analysis on myself.

I'd be interested in hearing more about why you find me suspicious. Is there anything other than that Volo suspected me and that Menel also found me suspicious?
Relax just a little bit. If you notice I said I probably won't be voting for you today. But of those that Volo listed as 'suspicious' I find that you are the most wolfish looking one. Because of the death of Menel.

Now that you do bring this up, I'm growing more concerned over you Celuien, especially with this comment here:
As for Menel, the last thing I would do if I were a wolf accused by him would be to kill him at night. Too obvious, and I'm not that bold.
The game my brother was in last village Valesse said pretty much this exact same thing to me when he started suspecting her. And Valesse turned out to be a wolf. It may not be the same here, but I'm getting more concerned about you. It looks like if you are trying to convince me that it would be way too bold and foolish for you to do such a thing. Which is exactly what wolf-Valesse tried to do.

And also the expected move of an innocent who made a case and had it answered (partially) to his satisfaction.
That's true.

Celuien

09-30-2006, 03:50 PM

I did see that you were unlikely to vote for me, though I was wondering why you found me the most suspicious of the three Volo suspects. Since it's because of Menel, the only defense I have is the one that I've already given, which I apparently can't give without making you more suspicious of me. :rolleyes:

Now I'm going to go and have some tea before I get myself into more trouble.

Glirdan

09-30-2006, 04:19 PM

I think I may have to vote shortly and personally I still find something odd about Folwren. But now there have been a few good points raised against Mac.

From the points that Nogrod and Durelin have both brought up, Mac has been acting a little oddly from his previous ancestors as well.

What to do, what...to...do.....

Nogrod

09-30-2006, 04:35 PM

This is actually getting pretty frustrating! I have gone forwards and backwards of all the things said and acts performed and I can see almost all of you others as wolves trying to do this or that! That is the power of the imagination... at least when one has nothing solid to back one's views.

Glirdy: don't go too easily with the points made by myself and Durelin on Macalaure. I thought I had spotted the wolf as I made my points on him earlier (and I still think that it is a possible scenario), but after scanning around, I have come up with a number of other scenarios too. So just come up with a vote from your own premises and declare them. At this point of the game we need actual ideas, not trailing...

Yes, one might just be a bit late (due to RL) and see that others have said what you kind of wished to say, but still, give us your own point of view and the reasoning behind it (how you yourself came to suspect X)! Otherwise I will think that you are being opportunistic... and which characters we know loving that stance? I have not forgotten my suspicions of you yesterDay even though they have been quite shallow toDay as I have turned my attention elsewhere...

Glirdan

09-30-2006, 04:48 PM

Thank you Nogrod for saying that for I have made up my mind. Though I had it made up a few hours back. I just needed to consider everything else that had been said.

And with that, I vote

++Folwren

For reasons I have said earlier. There is something that's seriously bugging me with her.

Folwren

09-30-2006, 05:35 PM

Boromir, I don't understand your suspicion of Celuien. Menel's suspicion was so slight I hardly noticed. He said that it would either be her or me that he voted for and he decided to vote for me because there seemed to be more evidence against me, as there was. His suspicion of Celuien was mere speculation - he said:

I'm not too sure about Celuien myself. From what she said yesterday, she mainly repeats what was said and then says she will be going for the middle ground. I don't really find that extremely suspicious but something doesn't sit right...

And then later he said:

My vote will probably be either for Folwren or Celuien toDay, and I'm inclined to suspect Folwren more. I'll be back around 11:30 to vote. Don't eat all my jelly doughnuts, please.

On day one there's not much to tell of anybody. That was just a thought of his. I don't think it's enough to say that Celuien, being a wolf, knocked Menel off so that he couldn't continue his suspicion of her. Menel was a good player, and smart, and that may be explanation enough as to why the wolves killed him.

Celuien also voted for Volo. Second person to, I think. If she were a wolf, I highly doubt she'd vote for him and bring more attention to him.

Nogrod's This is actually getting pretty frustrating! I have gone forwards and backwards of all the things said and acts performed and I can see almost all of you others as wolves trying to do this or that! sounds genuine enough. For now, I'm willing to think him a friend.

Glirdan. . .it's kind of hard to like someone who's trying to kill you.

Lommy. . .it's almost equally hard to like someone who first brought suspicion on you, especially when it causes so much trouble. But I forgive her, so long as she's not proven guilty. No thoughts, therefore.

Time to eat, must go.

-- Folwren

Nogrod

09-30-2006, 05:58 PM

Okay. Against all reason or self-protection, knowing that I'm not able to defend myself when the heat will be on (as you all innocents are annoyed about myself making all these suspicions on you), I will go for this and arouse suspicion on most of you. Rest assured, I can't see you all as wolves, that is just impossible, but I hope one or two (!) of my ideas hold true or / and that these ideas might contribute for a succesful Day2 lynching (I will probably only be able to pop in and vote after this in something like 7 hours from now).

Folwren and Durelin I hold as innocents right now, due to the way they have posted. If pressed, I would think Folwren a bit more innocent than Durelin.

Thinlomien has computer-access problems. I know this. But her readiness to jump on Folwren might be seen as wolvish tactics taking advance of the RL situation? But otherwise, it might be just trying to find the best argument one might find early on the Day1 when forced to leave the computer.

Glirdan: How come you duck away all the suspicions and beautifully go for a "safe vote" again? It seems you had really not thought of your vote but just went along with what could be seen as reasonable - even though many of us have thought otherwise. Not too much time to read through and happy to cling into something?

Diamond18: Now what is this? I love your language and attitude but I am starting to suspect you too. Why is it that you are so careful not to say anything that would offend anyone? My lorebooks tell me that your family is much more vocal in these matters when innocent!

Eonwe posts more in quantity and with more reason as no forefather of his I have seen. Should we think this is an "at last a wolf"-Eonwe wishing to make a difference or just an Eonwe who wishes to actually play the game for a change?

Rune I suspected a lot yesterDay, but now I'm not so sure about the grounds of my suspicions of him. He was nicely trailing the arguments Menel and Boro were making and looked like a wolf hunkering behind the arguments of the vocal ones. Also his touchiness about the force majeure -leaving the game looked a bit odd. His defence of Folwren toDay seemed genuine enough, but that also might be a good tactics by a wolf trailing the general impression? But this I find most disturbing, unless he really comes about with a good case:I have a chief suspect, but I need to observe the person for a bit to figure out if my theory holds water. . .I can se the reason why he is not willing to disclose the one he is after, but why to mention it in the first place? Making oneself look as a goody?

THE Ka: I would hope you to tell us what you meant by the following:I'm beginning to see that maybe our wolves are not working together so well, but that depends on whether all of this flustering is not a cover up for it... Either our wolves were scrambling yesterday, and had somewhat of a disarray, or all of this flustering is a neat diversion for confusion.It looks like a deep insight to the wolf-mind. I mean not the usual "yes I can imagine how they thought" but actually how could you deduce the things you've said, the internal conflicts or bad co-operation, if not having the experience of being one?

Macalaure I made a case against earlier. I still suspect there is something wrong with Mac but I'm not sure about it anyhow. But my guts say there's something different this time.

Then there is the spat between Celuien and Boro... I'll come to it soon...

Eonwe

09-30-2006, 06:16 PM

Well, Glirdan, you may have stated your reasons earlier, but I still dont' think they are good ones. You seem a bit to eager to get rid of Folwren than you should be. First of all, Folwrens 'bad vibes' just aren't coming through to me. Either way, I think its you that comes out looking worse than Folwren.

Therefore, I think you are the best vote for me, especially becuase this will be the last time I can get on before the deadline.

++Glirdan

Diamond18

09-30-2006, 06:22 PM

Just posting to say that I have arrived... I've read through all the posts but since you've all been quite talkative it'll take me a while to make heads or tails of it all. I just wanted to comment on:

Personally, I'd be cautious about using anything from Volo's last post. His fate was pretty well sealed at that time, and what he said probably aimed more to causing confusion or frantically trying to save himself than anything else. At any rate, a known wolf's village words are inherently untrustworthy.

It looked to me like Volo wasnt really aware that he was doomed when he posted that up. He'd posted earlier saying he was working on a post and at that point his fate was not sealed. So I suspect that post is still in the mindset of a wolf trying to fool the village into thinking its the viewpoint of an innocent.

Diamond18: Now what is this? I love your language and attitude but I am starting to suspect you too. Why is it that you are so careful not to say anything that would offend anyone? My lorebooks tell me that your family is much more vocal in these matters when innocent!

Yeah. I used to have more time. Now I don't... and consequently my werewolf a-game has been pretty much all shot to pieces. So I'm more hesitant to cast judgement when I'm aware that I haven't done the re-reading and throurough contemplating I used to be able to do. Anyway, there goes my sob story. I'll be around later with my thoughts.

Nogrod

09-30-2006, 06:24 PM

It's funny that Boro left himself out from his Volo-analysis of people (albeit the reasoning).

It's also funny that the adventures of his father play such a role (at least three mentionings) in his arguments. Like he would like to show himself as the innocent one being again used for his confidence of others... what could be better for a wolf?

Well, I'm not inclined to believe Folwren's innocent. My guess is they want to set up Folwren for an easy kill today as he had attracted quite a bit of suspicion yesterday. But, based upon the craziness that happened at the end of the day yesterday, I get the feeling Folwren's innocent.This might just be aslip of the hands on the keyboard, but why on earth would an innocent go about with that kind of contradiction? As I said earlier in regard to Glirdy, the wolves make these mistakes, not the innocents...

I have a feeling that either Glirdan (who is the one continuing the attack today) or Thinlomien, (who started the attack) is a wolf. As I find it pretty obvious that Folwren's innocent.Aren't you a bit too happy to cast the guilt? I mean you don't give us any reasons. That is quite un-Boromir-like, I daresay? You suspected Folwren when we were in the middle of Day1 (as I did too). Lommy pointed to reasonable causes for her being a villain and we all probably agree on that if we're honest. It would be comfortable for a wolf to trail that accusation and thus enhance a case over someone with your general authority? I wouldn't vote for Lommy, at least for now, but more likely the one who would like to make a case against her at the moment with these grounds...

Sorry Boro. I have kind of lost our mutual trust for now, but that doesn't mean I'm right right now.

PS. Eonwe: your vote kind of shouts lycantrophy for miles away!!! Maybe I should rethink all this before I wake up tomorrow...

X-ed with Di

Macalaure

10-01-2006, 06:08 AM

Again, I have to make it short. I only skimmed today's posts and can't comment on what has been said about me.

What caught my eye was Boro's analysis of Volo. He says that we cannot make much out of his first two posts, which is correct, but he then immediately turns to his last post, forgetting the third. This is not the kind of fault that I am used to see of Boromir and made me wary.

Out of the third post I found most interesting what Volo said about Durelin.

#15 Durelin says something random and a random vote on THE Ka
...
#26 Glirdan sends a vote for Durelin because of the random vote for THE Ka. I agree that those randomers have no right to be here, but RL stuff might be the reason in such cases on day1...

If Volo dislikes 'randomers' so much, why didn't he say it when he commented on her post? He only states the facts then. Then he says that randomers 'don't have a right to be here', pretty strong in my mind, but already in the next half sentence he makes the effort to take the pressure back again.
Being suspicious without being really suspicious is a way in which wolves sometimes treat each other, looking good if the other is lynched without furthering the lynching.

A thin case, I know, but I don't have the time to search for better/more.

++Durelin

By the way, should I not live to see Day 3, I find Nogrod, Celuien and Folwren quite innocent - at the moment.

Diamond18

10-01-2006, 07:18 AM

Bloody hell... this is the first time I've been able to get the 'Downs to work in the past... 12 hours. Not to say I've been checking every minute of the past 12 hours, but pretty much every time I checked back I got nothin'. So I'm really quite frustrated, because I haven't even been able to read over the thread. *sigh* Luckily though I can be around till the deadline so, unless it goes down again, I've still got time.

Boromir88

10-01-2006, 07:20 AM

Boromir, I don't understand your suspicion of Celuien.~Folwren
I think you mean to say you don't agree. You show that you understand it quite well, it isn't all that complicated, but you just don't agree. Which is perfectly ok, I'm offering ideas and possibilities, you can either agree with them or not (obviously). I like an objective opinion though, it let's me see the whole picture better, as we can all be narrow-minded at times.

It's funny that Boro left himself out from his Volo-analysis of people (albeit the reasoning).
Believe me or not, it's up to you, but I think you have a good knowledge of how my family is, and I never do an analysis on myself, nor include myself in any of my own lists.

It's also funny that the adventures of his father play such a role (at least three mentionings) in his arguments. Like he would like to show himself as the innocent one being again used for his confidence of others... what could be better for a wolf?
Why do you find it 'funny' that I use past experiences for an argument against people? That's what we all do, that's what this whole thing over strategy is about. What is the typical way wolves usually act? Does somebody's actions remind me of a wolves action in a past experience? How do I think each singer would act like as a wolf, based upon their family history. I used the village most recently, because you can't deny that the outcome of that village changed the way I started feeling about trusting people based off of votes. If you are more inquiry, you can search through all my records, I used experiences of past villages in all of them.

Well, I'm not inclined to believe Folwren's innocent. My guess is they want to set up Folwren for an easy kill today as he had attracted quite a bit of suspicion yesterday. But, based upon the craziness that happened at the end of the day yesterday, I get the feeling Folwren's innocent.

This might just be aslip of the hands on the keyboard, but why on earth would an innocent go about with that kind of contradiction?
Thanks for pointing that out, I didn't notice that before. Should read 'I'm now inclined...' as I've been saying since my very first post today I think Folwren is likely innocent.

Aren't you a bit too happy to cast the guilt? I mean you don't give us any reasons.
I do give reasons, in that same post, you just missed them for some reason. They're right there for everyone to see:
Call me a softy, but I've brought into Folwren's pleads. In the chaos and upped pace of the last minutes yesterday, it's understandable that Folwren was voting to save her life (eventhough if it turned out to be unnecessary).

Which leads me to Glirdan who has continued an attack on Folwren today. Since I find Folwren innocent, it's either that Glirdan is an innocent that fell into the wolves plan. Or he actually is a wolf pushing for Folwren's lynching. From what I know of Glirdan (which has been a very short history of records) he is the agressive attack type, so it wouldn't surprise me if he's a wolf in this situation.

Then there's Thinlomien, who got the ball rolling yesterday against Folwren. I had agreed with Thinlo's points, as because as far as Day 1's go it was one of the more sensible looking arguments. But, as the Day closed yesterday I grew wary of a vote against Folwren (for rather obvious reasons that I've made more clear today).

Sorry Boro. I have kind of lost our mutual trust for now, but that doesn't mean I'm right right now.
I don't expect to simply just have trust. I have to earn it and so far, at least for you, I haven't earned it; that's completely understandable.

What caught my eye was Boro's analysis of Volo. He says that we cannot make much out of his first two posts, which is correct, but he then immediately turns to his last post, forgetting the third. This is not the kind of fault that I am used to see of Boromir and made me wary.~Mac
I can understand how you think that, as I didn't make any mention of his 3rd post. I did take it into consideration, just didn't mention it because it wasn't much help. First off it was a summary, second of all his thoughts intertwined are either simply agreeing/disagreeing, or regurgitations of his last post.

Edit: x-posted with Diamond

Boromir88

10-01-2006, 07:28 AM

Bloody hell... this is the first time I've been able to get the 'Downs to work in the past... 12 hours.~Di
It appears that a lot have been having this...as there's been very little action and I've been trying too...it's still acting a bit sluggish.

Rune Son of Bjarne

10-01-2006, 07:45 AM

Yeah It takes forever just to get to make a reply and if I try to look at the previouse pages, I loose conection completely. It makes this whole thing a bit harder. . . anyhow I am around for the next bit of time.

Celuien

10-01-2006, 08:24 AM

I can finally post! Been trying for about 12 hours. :rolleyes:

We have two votes so far - Eonwe for Glirdan and Mac for Durelin. I can't say that I find either vote recipient suspicious. My family has known their families for many generations. Durelin has seemed so far to be following in the footsteps of the innocent foremothers my family knew, so though I'm not sure that she's innocent, she has an innocent feel for me. As for Glirdy, he is the prototypical innocent Glirdy who finds a hunch and runs with it, then gets the village after him until being lynched. I continue to feel pretty certain that he is not a wolf.

It looked to me like Volo wasnt really aware that he was doomed when he posted that up. He'd posted earlier saying he was working on a post and at that point his fate was not sealed. So I suspect that post is still in the mindset of a wolf trying to fool the village into thinking its the viewpoint of an innocent.
That's a good point. It's hard for me to figure out the exact timeline. I still don't trust the post as far as I can throw it.

I'm not really sure whom I should vote for. Boromir is making me unasy, but I don't trust myself since that's largely based on our spat. Must think...

Folwren

10-01-2006, 08:29 AM

You can not imagine the ill luck I've been having this morning and last night while trying to get onto the 'Downs. I'm fair ready to burst with impatience with this computer! I see it's not necessarily my computer's fault with everyone else complaining of the same thing. ..strange

Well, I'm not running any chances. This may be my last chance to write before closing time.

Boromir is making sense with his thoughts. I am not inclined to think of him as guilty just now. It can wait, I think.

Glirdan annoys me immensely.

Nogrod is making sense, too.

I can't go over everybody, they're calling me up to make the eggs for breakfast. :mad: Blasted time and blasted computer! I don't want to vote for Lommy becuase she hasn't had a chance to defend herself or to even play, really.

I'm going for Glirdan. It's based off of my own gut feeling, Boromir's reasoning, and my dislike of being attacked so forociously.

++Glirdan

the guy who be short

10-01-2006, 09:41 AM

By the Will of Diamond and Celuien and Rune, apparently Day hasn't ended yet. My mistake. Do carry on.

This post will self destruct at 5pm BST / 12 noon EST, which is incidentally when Day actually ends.

Sorry about the inconvenience.

Diamond18

10-01-2006, 09:42 AM

I’m going to go through all the posts (hopefully, if I can swing it in the time I have, curse the board) and give my impressions of each player, in the order they are listed in Sleepy’s posts.

Glirdan

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491295&postcount=13

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491339&postcount=26

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491595&postcount=80

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491605&postcount=85

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491628&postcount=94

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491664&postcount=105

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491669&postcount=107

Glirdan is worrisome to me. The first day I did not find his hasty vote particularly strange as I’m know what it’s like to have to vote early with little to go on. His opening post is very par for the course as far as character play goes… lots of shock and exclamation over the mod’s death is vintage Glirdy.

However with the dawn of day 2 he really starts striking me as off. He attacks Folwren, starting by using what was clearly throwaway commenting on Sleepy’s death, something which never sits well with me. When something is obviously meant as in character or as a chatty preamble I honestly don’t understand why anyone would use it as a serious condemnation. Unless you were really trying to cast suspicion or suspected the player of taunting. At any rate, the rest of his case against Folwren has some merit, but since I tend to feel Folwren is as blindingly innocent as… snow that’s really bright… I find the way he goes after her to be somewhat unsettling. Plus, he seems to shy away from the notion of voting for her but ends up doing so on encouragement from Nogrod not to let others direct him. Which is odd.

I could see myself voting for him, but the one thing that holds me up is that I’ve played with Glirdan before and have known him to behave somewhat oddly and yet be innocent. So I don’t like to fall for the “he’s oh so lynchable” pitfall and kill an innocent merely for playing style. I shall have to evaluate the other candidates.

Macalaure

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491380&postcount=31

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491429&postcount=46

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491444&postcount=52

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491458&postcount=61

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491462&postcount=63

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491475&postcount=69

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491479&postcount=71

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491481&postcount=73

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491630&postcount=96

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491684&postcount=113

I had reservations about Mac’s early Day 1 posting (see my previous posts). The timing of his vote for Volo seems to speak well, but his wording still gives me pause, as he seems to reiterate a lot that he didn’t suspect Volo all that much. This strikes me as trying to put emphasis on the luckiness of him spotting a wolf Day 1, lest we think he knew Volo’s identity and was intentionally sacrificing him.

Diamond18

Doesn’t post much, posts nonsense when she does show up. I’d keep an eye out for that bad seed if I were you.

THE Ka

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491317&postcount=19

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491360&postcount=29

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491625&postcount=93

Bit at a loss about Ka. She voted Volo for reasons I don’t quite understand, and since she turned out to be right could be seen as having good instincts or being in the know. Her vote was cast at a particularly safe time, being the first to vote for Volo, so this could well be wolf-on-wolf tactics. On Day 2 she has so far made some statements speculating on how the wolves are behaving, which kind of doesn’t give me much of an idea about anything.

Lommy

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491383&postcount=32

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491401&postcount=36

Well I don’t have much to go on. I really have nothing to observe on except that I dislike not having anything to observe on. She did seem to overestimate my posting, saying

Diamond didn't start with cuddly in-character bantering? I'm not sure what to make of this either, but it's nice to see her starting serious discussion this early.

I’m not sure who’s posts she was reading but it wasn’t mine. :p I mean, I did start in character, with links! And then said nothing of great consequence beside yawning over the Day 1ishness of the Day so far. So. Weird. Also, she called me cuddly. Like Snuggles the Fabric Softener Teddy Bear? Them’s fighting words.

Yeah, so basically, a whole lot of nothing. Shady….

Celuien

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491299&postcount=14

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491326&postcount=21

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491333&postcount=24

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491390&postcount=34

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491411&postcount=40

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491612&postcount=88

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491624&postcount=92

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491657&postcount=102

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491661&postcount=104

Celuien feels pretty innocent to me at this time. Her posts have all been calm and reasonable. Maybe she gets her serenity from knowing who are wolves and who are not, but at this time I don’t feel suspicious enough to start speculating on that. Nothing factual really supports it. She cast a vote for Volo at a time when putting him in the lead on a day notorious for spread out votes, so unless she was trying to fenris wolf him, I look favorably on her voting record.

Eonwe

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491269&postcount=9

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491337&postcount=25

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491422&postcount=42

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491427&postcount=45

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491437&postcount=49

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491445&postcount=53

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491449&postcount=56

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491646&postcount=97

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491676&postcount=110

Day 1 is pretty much par for the Eonwe course as far as I know. If I recall correctly, he usually gets lynched just by annoying people with his random voting. Day 2 he speaks less, but gives a pretty well reasoned vote for Glirdan (as these things go). Right now I haven’t really got a feel on him either way, but I don’t think I’ve ever been able to get a feel on him in the past, so this isn’t surprising.

Nogrod

Augh. The idea of going through all Noggie’s posts just killed me a little. But since he has been very talkative I’ve already formed a feel for him, and I don’t suspect him at this point. His vote for Volo speaks well, unless it’s a fenrising, but I’ll worry about that later if I should have reason to. For now, I’m not even considering voting Noggie so I’ll skip re-reading all his posts.

Durelin

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491302&postcount=15

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491596&postcount=81

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491622&postcount=91

http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491648&postcount=98

Durelin I feel fairly comfortable with at this time. Not sure why, as she hasn’t posted very much and her Day 1 post was kind of flaky. But I’ve seen Durelin play before as an innocent (heck, as a gifted) and this isn’t unusual and doesn’t mean she isn’t being helpful. In #98 she brings up a phrase of Mac’s that I also puzzled over – however I ended up just deciding that his grammar was off and am not sure whether anything more can be read into it. If it is a slip of a deeper kind, could be quite telling, but I don’t know, those kinds of phrase fudges can be innocently made in haste.

Boro

Boro is kind of the same story as Nogrod for me. If I had been able to start this earlier and not forced to cram it into 2 hours, I’d go over his posts but I’m starting to do this shorthand. At any rate, he voted for Mac whom I was also a bit suspicious of yesterday (still am) so nothing about that raises red flags.

Folwren

I’ll make this short: I’m pretty sure she’s innocent. The only wolf I can recall being histrionic was Valier once, otherwise this is just something wolves don’t do. Innocents do it and get lynched for it, but wolves, not so much. Or maybe I’m just feeling really emphatic, because I recognize a lot of her sentiments as ways I’ve played games in the past. Whatever. Not voting for her.

Rune

I’m still kind of clueless about Rune, which made me uncomfortable enough to vote for him Day 1. However, I think I have enough suspicions of others after Day 2 to vote for one of them.

Unfortunately, in concentrating on the living I’ve sort of run out of time to give a real good look at Volo’s behavior in relation to others. I have mainly his last post to go on.

Okay, I probably have some more to catch up on since I started working on this, so now to see who I’ve cross posted with.

(Sorry I didn't format the links nicely, I usually do, but it just takes forever. I didn't even take down the links for the last ones. I do so hate being rushed).

Celuien

10-01-2006, 09:46 AM

There has been a half hour reprive on the deadline.

This is very frustrating. I don't have time to go back through the thread now because of the deadline and Downs being down for so long. Boro is still making me nervous, but I'll trust Folwren's judgment for now and let that pass. I think she's probably innocent.

Also frustrating is that I see Glirdy coming up as a chief lynching candidate. Please don't. I really, really think that he's not guilty.

The only votes are two for Glirdy, one for Folwren and one for Durelin. I believe, but don't know that Folwren is innocent. I'm sure that Glirdy is. And I don't know about Durelin, but think she's innocent.

I want to save Glirdy. What can I do?

Diamond18

10-01-2006, 09:50 AM

I think I'm going to vote for Mac. I'm not going to commit till closer to the actual cut off time, though.

Diamond18

10-01-2006, 09:52 AM

I don't want to vote for Folwren, Durelin, or Glirdan, but of those three would vote Glirdan. As of right now it wouldn't matter, though. So I'd still vote Mac.

Celuien

10-01-2006, 09:53 AM

I think I'm going to vote for Mac. I'm not going to commit till closer to the actual cut off time, though.
Well, I'll go where I have to, though I'm not sure about Mac. I am certain about Glirdan, and I'd rather save someone I'm fairly certain is innocent.

Durelin

10-01-2006, 09:57 AM

Alright, I'm going with my original suspicion. Though now that he's voted for me, I'm a little less suspicious... At least, I don't think it wise for a wolf to actually vote for his accuser. Glirdan's being odd, and I see he already has...two votes? Well, as I recall that's rather normal Glirdan. But my memory fails me quite a lot...

At any rate, I don't feel I've seen enough yet to vote for him, particularly since he's already got a couple.

Hrmm.

Eh, it has to be... Two minutes left?

This might help you two decide, Di and Cel.

++Mac

Diamond18

10-01-2006, 09:58 AM

++Mac

Celuien

10-01-2006, 09:58 AM

Thank you, Durelin.

++MAC

I hope he's a wolf. I have my doubts. But at least Glirdy is safe. :rolleyes:

Boromir88

10-01-2006, 09:58 AM

This was my post before, but due to the technical difficulties it didn't come out. I'll try to get everything down before, but this will be rushed to get in time.

Thinlomien, due to problems with computer access already, put that with the technical difficulties recently. I'm willing to let Lommy go for today, but don't expect this grace from me the next day.

Celuien. I wouldn't necessarily call it a spat we had, that seems like a rather hateful connotation. I suspected you, you defended yourself, that's business, it's how it works. I'll be watching you more closely tomorrow, but for today you have cooled a little bit of suspicion.

I felt like something wasn't right with Mac yesterday and I bought his explanation as far as he had never been in that Day 1 situation before. Nogrod did point out a good argument, but I happen to disagree. I did also wonder about this comment, which seemed strange:
First, I was the one who suggested that the remaining people voted Volo. Just because I happen to be the second of the actual voters doesn't make it a cover.
I was wondering about this, I'm beginning to think though that Mac is an innocent. He makes a comment that I honestly don't think a wolf would make:
Out of the ones who have two votes, I don't like to vote for me and I don't like to vote for Folwren. This leaves me again with Volo, whom I could vote for though with a bad conscience and a bad feeling
Nogrod bolds that last part, which I guess would mean he's emphasizing it. The thing is I've seen this saying all too many times during my long history in werewolf, and there's only two situations I've seen.

1. It's an innocent who is worried about lynching another innocent. Which is understandable, and has happened many many times. If you don't know the identity of the person you voted for, you'll feel bad if that person is innocent, or even worse a gifted. This is a natural feeling of an innocent player who's not sure about his votee's identity.

2. It's a wolf to use an excuse to get away from suspicion of voting for an innocent. The wolves of course know who's an innocent, and they're goal is obviously to get innocents lynched. In order to stay away from suspicion, they'll put out this as an excuse to look innocent and they were misled.

I've never seen that comment used by a wolf to vote for another wolf partner. Becuase, the wolves also know their partners, and if they are going to contribute to a partner's death they want to appear strong and make a convincing argument. So people will say...'Look this person was a very influential factor in the death of a wolf, he/she is probably not one then...' I've never seen a wolf act weak/unsure when they cast a vote for another wolf partner. So, for me this right now speak to me that Mac is innocent.

Which leaves me with Glirdan. Di says he is an aggressive player, and the short records I have of Glirdan (1 game, 1 day) this is true. It could just be though that he's using that aggressive behavior, a normal Glirdan personality, to disguise his true aggressive self.

That means.

++Glirdan

(I'm already going to edit this because I know I'm probably mass cross-posting).

Rune Son of Bjarne

10-01-2006, 10:03 AM

I did not say anything but boromir made a bit nervouse already yesterday, the reason for me not saying anything is because I wanted to observe him first.

I cannot go show the evidence due to conection problems and lack of time.

He in his agreeing with me, he kind of shifted the focus from him to me, I might be overanalysing, but it could be a way of securing him self if people found his arguments suspiciouse. .

there is more, but it will have to wait.

++Boromir

sorry for all

Celuien

10-01-2006, 10:07 AM

Arrgh. I feel like I'm yelling at the walls.

the guy who be short

10-01-2006, 10:16 AM

Really this time.

Sleepy will come and write up a death post later.

Sleepy Ranger

10-01-2006, 12:08 PM

Alright. Glirdan and Mac are both tied at three votes.

Mac is an innocent.
Glirdan is the hunter.
Glirdan takes Folwren (another innocent) with him.

I'm busy at present but I shall have their deaths up soon. :)

Sleepy Ranger

10-02-2006, 06:09 AM

It was time for death. Glirdan and Macalaure were both lined up and the ones who would live to see tomorrow watched them, wondering how to end their lives. Whilst they thought Folwren stepped up and said, "While you think I shall sing a song which I feel fits this moment." No sooner had she said that that the phantom band began to play. Caught by surprise Folwren nearly fell over but she managed to stay on her feet and began to perform.

You've cried wolf to often
And now there is no place to hide
And you've made your own coffin
By keeping all your fears inside of your heart

Don't wait 'till tomorrow
'Cause what if tomorrow doesn't come
You'll wait until it's just too late
And thing's'll be fallin' in on you.

Look out they're falling.
Look out they're falling near you.
Look out they're falling. . .

Before she could finish however Glirdan smacked his guitar against Folwren's skull. She dropped flat, face first onto the ground. Glirdan did not let up though, he struck his guitar against her head over and over. It had broken as had her skull. Glirdan struck so fast that nobody had any time to react even Folwren could barely complete a scream. She passed out as blood stained her face and trickled down her back, forming a pool around her.

Glirdan stood over her breathing heavily. Nothing happened. She just lay there motionless. She did not transform. She was just dead. "I... I was wrong..." said Glirdan. Glirdan the hunter. He raised his hands trying to explain the situation to the rest but when he opened his mouth it was not words that escaped but a scream, a rather disgruntled Thinlomien had thrown a large rock at him.

It struck him in his stomach and he doubled over as Nogrod pierced his eyes with a loose guitar string. Glirdan, now blinded, shrieked and flailed around aimlessly. Boromir88 shoved him away from the crowd and straight into the fatal magical barrier that was meant to keep them in. Glirdan would have been wide eyed had Nogrod left him with any. He did not pop. He shrieked.

Glirdan was being streched. This time there was a pop as his left arm unattached itself from his body, followed by his right arm. Next to go were his legs. Glirdan then dropped to the ground, a bloody mess. The survivors turned around sickened by what they had just seen and as they did they saw Macalaure.

They had nearly forgotten about him as he stood there silently. They looked at one another. They more or less all agreed there had been too much blood spilled but Macalaure would have to go. He had been voted to go after all. "Please, my friends. I know you wish to kill me but I request you let me play one last melody on my harp." Said Macalaure calmly. "Do not listen to him! He is a wolf!" came a cry from the crowd.

"Silence!" Said Celuien commandingly and snatched up a stray violin. She pulled out a string and pricked her finger. "Will do." She said softly and stood near Macalaure. "You may begin but one false move and you're dead." She had the string aimed at his neck and there was not so much as a bead of sweat on her skin.

Macalaure played calmly, touching the hearts of nearly all who were there. "Oh enough of this. Just do away with him already." came Durelin's agitated voice. "Will you shut up and let us enjoy the music?" Said The Ka in response. "Both of you. Silence." Cried Celuien waving her arms.

Unfortunately she thrust her arm a bit too far and stabbed Macalaure through his neck. "Oh my..." she said as she drew it out. "Sorry." And with that she inserted it through his heart and lay it to rest. This day had not gone well. Three deaths, no wolves and there was still the night to come. As they retreated to the Tavern they hoped that the morning would bring better news.

***

Night 2

Dead
Sleepy Cowell (Mod) - Beheaded and mounted on a wall.
Volo (Wolf) [Kai Hansen] - Popped by the magical barrier he helped set up.
Meneltarmacil (Innocent) [Elvis Presley] - Suffocated and disected.
Glirdan (Hunter) [Hedley] - Blinded and had his limbs popped off.
Macalaure (Innocent) [Maglor] - Stabbed with a sharpened violin string.
Folwren (Innocent) [2nd Chapter of Acts] - Flogged with a guitar.

Alive
Diamond18
THE Ka
Thinlomien
Celuien
Eonwe
Nogrod
Durelin
Boromir88
Rune

Sleepy Ranger

10-02-2006, 10:08 AM

Only eight of the nine that had gone to sleep awoke that day. They assembled in the lounge but there was no dead body there. No trace of death what so ever. They took a head count but that only resulted in eight. One was missing. "Did you count yourself?" asked Celuien, sounding like a school teacher. "Here, let me... one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight..." One was missing.

"Where is my guitar?" Asked Nogrod all of a sudden. This led to a bit of a murmur. It turned out everyone's instruments had vanished. When the search indoors proved fruitless they head outside and there, at the shell, was some sort of weird disfigured rack holding all their instruments. They slowly approached it and when they did arrive they wished they had not. It was Diamond18.

She had been twisted, broken, snapped and all other such delightful words which had resulted in her becoming their new instrument holder. "I don't think I want to play anymore..." muttered Thinlomien softly. There was a note near by.

Friends,
Time is scarce. Things have tourned sour. Diamond18 was your seer but do not despair there are things you do not see, things you do not know. Perhaps in the end this will work in your favor. I must be quick for I fear if I am found out there shall be nothing preventing the wolves from picking you all off. Your numbers have dwindled greatly.

I wish you luck!
The Phantom of the Battle-O-Bands

Day 3

Dead
Sleepy Cowell (Mod) - Beheaded and mounted on a wall.
Volo (Wolf) [Kai Hansen] - Popped by the magical barrier he helped set up.
Meneltarmacil (Innocent) [Elvis Presley] - Suffocated and disected.
Glirdan (Hunter) [Hedley] - Blinded and had his limbs popped off.
Macalaure (Innocent) [Maglor] - Stabbed with a sharpened violin string.
Folwren (Innocent) [2nd Chapter of Acts] - Flogged with a guitar.
Diamond18 (Seer) [Nickel Creek] - Disfigured into an attractive instrument stand.

Alive
THE Ka
Thinlomien
Celuien
Eonwe
Nogrod
Durelin
Boromir88
Rune

Day 3 has now started. Deadline is noon EST tomorrow.

Rune Son of Bjarne

10-02-2006, 10:13 AM

I did think I had spotted the seer, but it was not Di. . . I guess this has been symptomatic for how I have played in this game.

I shall return within 20 min to explain my rather confused vote yesterday and then say nothing for 6 hours.

Rune Son of Bjarne

10-02-2006, 10:26 AM

My Reason For Voting As I Did:
Perhaps it was a bit confusing, but Rune put my words better than myself...odd, huh?

I don't think anybody said we should not talk tactics, it was more that we should not agree on a way to do things that would enable the wolves to manipulate us.

Let me give you this poker analogy, you don't want your opponent to know your plan, or how you are playing. Beacuse, if they do you are too easy to predict and the other players and they will make you pay for it. I find Werewolf to be the same, I don't want the wolves knowing my mind, so I won't say what I find to be wolvish. Now, if something does look wolvish to me, I'm going to jump out and say so, but I won't discuss what I'm looking for in order to find wolves.

I agree with Rune, if we all collaborate and set out what we think wolves would do, then they will make us pay for it. It will make our moves too predictable.

I was really flattered and am really flattered about Boromir saying this(I am not used to compliments), but something about it made me uncomftable. At one hand he just confirm what he has already said, but the last paragraph moves focus from him to me. . .could this be away for him make him self more secure incase people found this view on thing wolfish?

I was expecting more of Rune today, as he said he would, but didn't see it. I fully understand though, that unexpected things come up, we all get busy dealing with our fan-mail and what not...I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt today.

He expected more of me, because a jokingly post about me naming the wolves on Day 1. Normally I don’t pay heed to comments like these, but after getting the feeling he was building up a case against me. . .

Not a case as such, but making small comments where he does not directly accuse me of anything, but if suspicion was cast upon me, he could with advantage use this to distance him self from me with or to cast further suspicion.

He then votes for Mac, witch put an innocent level with a wolf. Granted I voted for Mac too and for the exact same reason. It still needs to be mentioned though when looking on the large-whole.

Granted I was shooting sparrows with cannons, but it was something that caught my eye and Boromir is cunning. When you add Nogrod’s case against him, well then it seemed like the best case I could make. It has to be said that because of yesterdays breakdown, I could not look through Boromir’s posts until after the deadline.

I hope that this clarify my confused vote yesterday, I hope that today will be the day when I become an asset to this game rather than utter rubbish.

Nogrod

10-02-2006, 12:05 PM

This is just unfair! Yes, we made a good kill in the end of Day1, but I mean three innocents dead in a Day when only half of the people were able to vote (or something, haven't checked the actual numbers) including the hunter! And now Di, the Seer!

I don't know what Glirdy had in mind when picking Folwren... I just can't get it. And had the Downs worked yesterDay someone could have broken the tie last night and leave us with only one dead... But that's past and can not be reverted anyhow. :(

So I'm going to look through what Di said, but am a little confused about the prospect of talking openly to each other about what we find from her posts. I mean that there are at most two innocents she knew (clearly she had no wolves spotted) and having an open consensus over the innocent personalities will most probably be their downfall, an open death sentence executed by Night... Maybe we all should take our own tour on Di's posts and hold our tongues, only to come forwards if someone is actually trying to kill the possible innocents? I must see to Di's posting first before setting my mind on this.

Nogrod

10-02-2006, 12:54 PM

Okay.

I'll only speculate about the obvious or about which looks like obvious.

It seems Di had no dream of a wolf as she voted for two innocents and her main suspects - as far as we know - have turned out innocents.

It seems pretty clear to me that of the yet living Diamond hadn't a dream on:
The Ka
Lommy
Eonwe
Rune

So that leaves as possible dreamt of innocents:
Celuien
Nogrod
Durelin
Boromir

The problem is, that from that lower list only two can be known innocents to Di, most probably only one as I'm afraid that Folwren was the other dreamee of hers... But we can be quite certain that her other dream was not Volo, Menel, Glirdy or Macalaure either, so there should be at least one innocent in the lower list. Not much but something.

Surely there are degrees of possibility in there and we should really check them out everyone. I have quite a strong opinion about the one dreamee (the other being Folwren?) in that list, but will not specualte about it yet. Let's not dress the table too ready for the wolves. :p

Boromir88

10-02-2006, 02:29 PM

At one hand he just confirm what he has already said, but the last paragraph moves focus from him to me. . .could this be away for him make him self more secure incase people found this view on thing wolfish?~Rune
If I agree with you I'll say I agree with you. If I disagree with you I'll say I disagree with you. I'm straight forward and blunt, there's no hidden messages, nor clues, nor secret evil intentions throughout any of my posts. I say what I mean.

He expected more of me, because a jokingly post about me naming the wolves on Day 1.
Actually no I expected more of you because you said you would until your RL interview got in the way, which I think is understandable.

Not a case as such, but making small comments where he does not directly accuse me of anything, but if suspicion was cast upon me, he could with advantage use this to distance him self from me with or to cast further suspicion.
Again there's no hidden agenda in my posts, I say it like it is, and you can take it for face value. The most potentially dangerous people to the wolves can be the 'talkers' like Nogrod and myself. I say potentially dangerous, because if we're wrong in our suspicions than good for the wolves, if not though we can be a big thorn in their sides. I get the feeling that what we have going on here is the wolves have pinned us against eachother here. I've had no reason to suspect you, I found what you said to be quite reasonable. I just expected to hear more from you because you said there would be and I didn't see it (because of several different reasons). I think what the wolves have done is cleverly pinned us against eachother so we spin in circles over and over. While they're in the background watching the people who could be potential problems argue with eachother and lynch eachother. If that makes any sort of sense at all, I'm rather wordy at times, when I need not be.

I don't have the time right now to comment on why I think what I said above is what we have going on in this village, but I will get to that more when I return in a few hours.

I hope that this clarify my confused vote yesterday, I hope that today will be the day when I become an asset to this game rather than utter rubbish.
You're no closer today than you were yesterday.

This is just unfair!
Yah, yesterday was just a down right awful day in many many ways. That's life, time to move on, forget about it and let's turn this thing around.

THE Ka

10-02-2006, 03:20 PM

Sorry for being gone so much yesterday, RL issues happen, and unfortunately it was one that I am still dealing with. One of my relatives passed away recently, and I only learned of this a bit ago, so, I've been busy dealing with this. Sorry again. :(

Gah, so much has happened... Okay, I am going to have to catch up with the rest of you, if I am going to have anything worthy to say. I guess I should start by answering a few questions, even if they are a bit repetitive and utterly worthless here.

” It looks like a deep insight to the wolf-mind. I mean not the usual "yes I can imagine how they thought" but actually how could you deduce the things you've said, the internal conflicts or bad co-operation, if not having the experience of being one?”

It’s not much deep insight, more of me mistaking I had enough time to play ww in my last game. I had to kill myself off because of a thesis paper, plain and simple, and my fellow wolves in that game were a bit concerned how they would do. So, because they understood that I was dealing with RL issues, they devised a plan along side setting myself up, for me to take a dive, so I could go attend to my needs outside of the game. Fortunately it worked out, and I left as the first lynching, with no ties as to who my fellow wolves were, only the fact that I wrote as suspiciously as I could, setting myself up for votes, ect. Afterwards, when I was able to watch on my own free time after writing my paper, how the game was developing (like watching a play, I might say, to see how everything was going) I wished to see how the plan that was set up was working. I would say, it passed with a 70% efficiency, due to reasons of the two remaining wolves being in time complications, thus one of them was caught, but it did take awhile at first to narrow the choices down for the players. Afterwards, it was quite easier for the players to find the last wolf. Essentially, the important element for the wolves was the fact that it was: The volunteering wolf was lynched on the first day, because they acted ‘suspicious’, thus leaving most of the other players on other days without much plausible evidence to use as a reference, and two, allowed the wolves to have a cover and appear to be thinking the same way as everyone one else (my fellow wolves in that game voted for me, ect).
Now, I highly doubt Volo was in a similar situation as this, but I will admit it is close in circumstances to how my fellow wolves acted in the game I have mentioned.
In all meaning, I am only being resourceful, because no one likes to be a fool in ww too many times, and because it is helpful to learn from the past.
Also, it would be utterly stupid to have any of the two wolves remaining to set themselves up, because this plan can really only work on the first or second days with one wolf. Any other days with more than one, and you’ve pretty much ruined the sport of actually playing at all in a game for everyone by doing this.

I will have to continue reading posts from yesterday and today to catch up with everyone, so, I am sorry this is such a short reply. I hope to have more to understand soon.

Nogrod

10-02-2006, 04:42 PM

I've been asking myself the same question over and over again and somehow can't make it fit. Why did they kill Diamond? Did they have a hunch that she was the Seer or were they just picking her in random and getting lucky?

The problem in the last scenario is, that as a couple of my forefathers were lycantrophes, I know from their tales that getting done with those innocents who seem to have a hung of things or otherwise seem frightening is a major priority. Well, my forefathers were ethical enough to argue against the other wolves to let those "vocal players" live for the sport and balance of it, but the general feeling with my forefathers mates were that "the better player, the earlier kill". So we either have wolves who:

- play with cunning intelligence added with high moral standards (my lorebooks could make a separation of players here)
- were thinking Di actually hit a nail somewhere and decided to make sure of it before she could do more damage (my reasoning could make a separation of players here)
- are unsecure and try to make as secure kill as they can and do not take risks with the obvious ranger picks not to lose a kill (my hunch & lorebooks combined could make a separation of players here)

The problem surely is, that the lists based on these three cases would be very different indeed.

So if for instance myself, Boro, Rune, Celuien et.al. are all innocents and still alive, why didn't the wolves kill one of us? Was there something in Di that stood up for them as an alarm sign or were they just plain unsure about whom the ranger would pick and made a (lucky) trial of someone else? Or is someone or someones taking the gambit here and going for the less suspectible ones during the Nights just to hang around in the shade of other talkatives?

I'll come back with some more specific thoughts later as its getting late (RL) here...

Rune Son of Bjarne

10-02-2006, 05:41 PM

Boromir there is no need to get angry or defencive. . .I admited I had almost no case, but I thought that you guys would like an explanation to why I voted for you!

Maybe it is better if I say it simple: something you said made me uneasy about you, Nogrod said somethings that enhanced this. I had no better alternative, ergo I voted you.

Now if you will excuse me, I have to go look on previouse post to see if I can build up a real case this time.

Celuien

10-02-2006, 05:56 PM

All I can say about yesterday is arrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhhhh.

Voting record, with known innocents italicized:

1. Glirdan -> Folwren
2. Eonwe --> Glirdan
3. Macalaure --> Durelin
4. Folwren --> Glirdan
5. Durelin --> Mac
6. Diamond --> Mac
7. Celuien --> Mac
8. Boromir --> Glirdan
9. Rune --> Boromir

Yesterday's voting unknowns were Eonwe, Durelin, Boro, Rune, and me.
Non-voters were Ka, Nogrod and Lommy.

Just statistically speaking, I'd be surprised if no wolf voted even with all the problems the site was experiencing. Which might mean that a wolf might be found among Eonwe, Durelin, Boro, Rune, or me.

I feel pretty comfortable with Durelin's innocence.

Actually, the vote that makes me most uneasy from yesterday is Rune's for Boromir. When it was made, it was a throwaway that could have been used to break the disasterous tie between Mac and Glirdan. Yes, I know that Boro caused the tie, but looking at the times, it was a crosspost with the Mac votes. Glirdan, unfortunately, did make himself (as usual) suspicious enough to be lynched. I just have to wonder if any wolf would take such an exposed position as to fail to break a tie. It might have been a crosspost, but maybe not.

I agree with Nogrod's list of non-dreamt-of villagers based on Diamond's post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491709&postcount=121) here.

As for the list of possible list of people who were dreamt of, I don't think that I was one of them.

THE Ka

10-02-2006, 06:08 PM

Was there something in Di that stood up for them as an alarm sign or were they just plain unsure about whom the ranger would pick and made a (lucky) trial of someone else?

Going back and reading up on what has happened since I've been gone, this is a good point.

The problem surely is, that the lists based on these three cases would be very different indeed.

Yes they would, but at least you’ve managed to break it down into possibilities, which will help figure out the reasoning (or lack thereof) for the wolves going after Diamond. It doesn’t seem like this is going to be in any ways an easy thing to figure out, and it seems like everyone is a bit lacking in free time, like myself.

If I’ve read up correctly, there is probably only one other person (besides Folwren, possibly) that diamond has dreamt about (or got to so far, until she was killed, and her dreaming stopped), that no one seems to know who they are yet.

I don’t think it was a person in question that she dreamt about, but possibly someone she was going to dream about, that might have had the wolves rid of her. Though, it doesn’t seem likely they could have known, unless they were keeping an eye on the pattern of votes, or activities of members, and took a really guess and with diamond’s posting attitude, and made for a kill.

Also, Folwren’s battle with being thought of as a wolf could have been another lucky diversion for wolves to hide in a bandwagon of votes, and possibly try to sway voting opinion away from more suspicious activities.
It just seemed a bit fishy how long that lasted, though, it was the second day, and we still didn’t have much to go on.

I don't know what Glirdy had in mind when picking Folwren... I just can't get it.

Yeah, I don’t understand that either… Either something random of Glirdan, or something that turned out very helpful, though sad. After this we really learned that Folwren was innocent, which cleared away any left over bandwagoning suspicions.

It seems like maybe our wolves are not playing entirely by expectations, but are being a bit more active instead of hiding, or making stealthy plans. I don’t know how to entirely explain it, but it this game just seems different from past ones I’ve played (however few), and I keep getting this nudge that the wolves are being more than what they are expected as, and doing some very crafty blending, and sly talking. Maybe being obvious or quite un-wolfish is a new tactic. It just seems plausible in this game right now.

I still have some catching up to do from being away yesterday, so, I’ll try to be back.

Durelin

10-02-2006, 06:21 PM

Dang, that's not good...

Personally, I think Di was just a lucky catch for the wolves, and an unlucky catch for us innocents.

I see I was quite wrong on Mac...how shocking. :rolleyes:

Hmm…let’s look at Di’s posts real quick…

Folwren, Durelin, or Glirdan, but of those three would vote Glirdan

Perhaps she dreamed of Folwren, and maybe myself? Well, that doesn’t help much, considering, and it certainly doesn’t help me at all…

Celuien feels pretty innocent to me at this time. Her posts have all been calm and reasonable. Maybe she gets her serenity from knowing who are wolves and who are not, but at this time I don’t feel suspicious enough to start speculating on that.

…

Day 1 is pretty much par for the Eonwe course as far as I know. If I recall correctly, he usually gets lynched just by annoying people with his random voting. Day 2 he speaks less, but gives a pretty well reasoned vote for Glirdan (as these things go). Right now I haven’t really got a feel on him either way, but I don’t think I’ve ever been able to get a feel on him in the past, so this isn’t surprising.

…

Augh. The idea of going through all Noggie’s posts just killed me a little. But since he has been very talkative I’ve already formed a feel for him, and I don’t suspect him at this point. His vote for Volo speaks well, unless it’s a fenrising, but I’ll worry about that later if I should have reason to. For now, I’m not even considering voting Noggie so I’ll skip re-reading all his posts.

…

I’m still kind of clueless about Rune, which made me uncomfortable enough to vote for him Day 1. However, I think I have enough suspicions of others after Day 2 to vote for one of them.

Okay, so there’s more of that, I know. Unfortunately I don’t have an abundance of time. But, I think we can say that Di was most suspicious of Mac, Glirdan, and Lommy yesterDay, followed by THE Ka and Rune. Of those, we know now that Mac and Glirdan were innocent. So that leaves us with:

Lommy
Rune
THE Ka

Lommy we just don’t see much of, but I’m starting to feel prepared to lynch her anyway. Rune has been very much like his forefather that I’m used to, who was actually a distant canine relative…I’ll have to see about him, though.

I feel basically the same as Di did about Boro and Nogrod, though I’m a little more suspicious of Boro.

Hmm…Celuien’s talk of wanting to save Glirdan is interesting…it is possible that she set herself up for this one. But, a wolf wouldn’t have bothered with such an approach, I imagine, if they only knew that Glirdan was an innocent, and I cannot see how the wolves would have suspected Glirdan to be a Hunter.

I feel the wolves were as blind as us innocents, and were just as ‘lucky’ as we were to catch a wolf on Day 1 to catch the Hunter and the Seer in one day and a Night (though I’d say us innocents’ bad luck played a part in that…).

Now, though…well, the wolves are probably feeling pretty dandy.

If I had to vote now, it would be for one of these candidates (listed loosely in order of suspicion, though it is very difficult to narrow things down right now): Lommy, Rune, and Celuien…

It’s rather quiet today… I will be able to return a little over an hour before Nightfall, but will have only a short time to decide and vote… I do hope there will be more to go on then, even if I will not have too much time to look over it.

Edit: Cross-posted with THE Ka and Celuien!

Rune Son of Bjarne

10-02-2006, 06:36 PM

Actually, the vote that makes me most uneasy from yesterday is Rune's for Boromir. When it was made, it was a throwaway that could have been used to break the disasterous tie between Mac and Glirdan. Yes, I know that Boro caused the tie, but looking at the times, it was a crosspost with the Mac votes. Glirdan, unfortunately, did make himself (as usual) suspicious enough to be lynched. I just have to wonder if any wolf would take such an exposed position as to fail to break a tie. It might have been a crosspost, but maybe not.

It most sertainly was a cross post! My vote was there 5 minutes after the others, that could be enough for me to have seen the other votes, but I was re-frasing and trying to figure out who to vote for based on my memories so it took me a bit more than 4 minutes tow write that.

I am curiouse about one thing. . .How come you were so sertain of Glirdan's inoccens? I knew that he acted pretty much the same has he normaly does, but I still was not sure. You state quite clearly that you are certain that he is not innocent. There must have been a specific reason.

Celuien

10-02-2006, 06:47 PM

I am curiouse about one thing. . .How come you were so sertain of Glirdan's inoccens? I knew that he acted pretty much the same has he normaly does, but I still was not sure. You state quite clearly that you are certain that he is not innocent. There must have been a specific reason.
Well, it could have been past experience with Glirdan. Whenever I suspected him, he always turned out to be an innocent. And he acted the same way as he did then.

Some more math. We have eight villagers remaining. Two are wolves, one is the Ranger and one is the mytho, meaning that 50% of the village is not ordinary. My question is if anyone thinks revelations would be helpful at this point.

Eonwe

10-02-2006, 08:06 PM

Some more math. We have eight villagers remaining. Two are wolves, one is the Ranger and one is the mytho, meaning that 50% of the village is not ordinary. My question is if anyone thinks revelations would be helpful at this point.

NO! I don't think we have enough to get much of a benifit right now. I'd say, cross your fingers, and hope you get thorugh this time, until the wolves have killed off enough to make the ratios a bit more pleasing. But obviously, its your choise.

At a bit of a loss right now, I'll focus on Durelin's list of Lommy, Ka,and Rune.

Boromir88

10-02-2006, 11:26 PM

Boromir there is no need to get angry or defencive~Rune
There was no anger in my post, or at least none intended. It was defensive though, but that's how I am when I get suspected.

Some more math. We have eight villagers remaining. Two are wolves, one is the Ranger and one is the mytho, meaning that 50% of the village is not ordinary. My question is if anyone thinks revelations would be helpful at this point.~Celuien
There is also the possibility that the Mytho is another ordinary innocent.

I like Durelin's reasoning, though I still don't find Rune to be a wolf. I think he's just being led in the wrong direction. As I have a feeling that the wolves are sitting back and letting us go after eachother. Which would be a smart thing to do for them, I would think. They are keeping those who could be a problem for them occupied by us going after eachother and just lynching eachother off. Instead of killing us at night. Because why would the wolves kill the talkers if they are completely wrong with their suspicions?

I think right now we are approaching this the wrong way. The wolves will keep around the talkers as they know they can be influential and sway the vote, and will keep us talkers around as long as we aren't big thorns in their side. So, that means I'm going to be taking close looks at

The Ka (who seems more active today like she's anxious to keep the people who are talking against eachother and come under scrutiny) View this post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=491928&postcount=145).

Eonwe, who's being like Eonwe, the quietness and randomness is typical. Which gets me worried.

Lommy, like I said yesterday I was willing to give her a little benefit because of the advanced warning ahead of time about not having a great amount of computer access...but that's not going to continue to fly especially since I really don't find Nogrod, Celuien, or Rune to be that suspicious as of right now.

After thinking a little bit, I realized there really wasn't all that reason to suspect Celuien. I think I was just grasping at some straws and trying to make a connection between Menel's suspicions of her and then Menel's death. What she's said today I agree with about the mess of voting that ended yesterday.

I don't think I was dreamed of either, nor do I think Celuien or Nogrod was dreamed of. She all seemed rather unsure about us. She had no suspicions of us at the time, but there's a note of uncertainty. Durelin is really the one she comes out best to defend:
Durelin I feel fairly comfortable with at this time. Not sure why, as she hasn’t posted very much and her Day 1 post was kind of flaky. But I’ve seen Durelin play before as an innocent (heck, as a gifted) and this isn’t unusual and doesn’t mean she isn’t being helpful. In #98 she brings up a phrase of Mac’s that I also puzzled over – however I ended up just deciding that his grammar was off and am not sure whether anything more can be read into it. If it is a slip of a deeper kind, could be quite telling, but I don’t know, those kinds of phrase fudges can be innocently made in haste.
Though I guess there is a little bit of uncertainty in this post...the 'I just don't know.' It just sounds like Diamond has defended Durelin more than the rest. She felt 'comfortable with Durelin at this time,' explaining her post 98 as likely just grammar mistakes. There always has to be a bit of uncertainty with a Seer if they want to lay low. It just looks here that she has defended Durelin more than anyone else in Nogrod's list, which looks right to me. Also, with what Durelin's reasoning in her last post, I don't see a reason to suspect her at this moment.

Thinlómien

10-03-2006, 01:53 AM

All I can say about yesterday is arrrrrgggghhhhhhhhhhhh. That sums it up pretty well. Please, dear people, no double lynches without a good reason. They benefit the wolves, because it's very probable that more innocents die.

(I will post more in a while, I'm off to explore yesterday's voting.)

Thinlómien

10-03-2006, 02:27 AM

Okay, rereading yesterday's voting did not make me any wiser.

However, here come my opinions on my fellow villagers:

THE Ka, Nogrod and Rune all have an innocent air to me.

THE Ka's reasonable arguments and her early attack against Volo make me feel more at ease with her. She's not jumpy or flip-floppy; she seems rather calm even when defending herself.

Of Nogrod I could say that he's contributing. (Surprise! Surprise!) He does not flip-flop and has good points. Overall, he seems innocent. Actually, his a bit hasty attack on Glirdy on Day1 and his "I suspect everyone" - attitude yesterDay speak for his innocence too. Usually he seems to be more aggressive as an innocent than as a wolf, so this comforts me too. (Or maybe I'm just too tired to suspect him this time too... :p)

Rune's reactions to things feel very genuine. I hope I'm not undersestimating (or insulting) Rune if I say that as a wolf he normally leaves trails and alarming signs and is thus normally caught pretty soon. There have been none this far.

I won't be voting any of these three today.

Then, we come to the less clear cases. No one rings an alarm, but no one assures me of their innocence. These people are Cel, Durelin, Boro and Eonwe.

Like so many of the others, I'm inclined to believe Durelin innocent. Nothing in her worries me in particular. She acts as I've seen an innocent Durelin act. (Though, of course she can be a wolf who's bluffing well.) Unless she does something remarkably suspicious today or I am forced to vote her to save some of those I feel more innocent I won't be voting her today either.

Eonwe is a dangerous questionmark. His randomness and quietness make him a scary opponent. I still guess he's innocent and he has not made any especially wolvish actions and my gut-feeling tells me so ( = he's innocent) too, but I do not dare to trust this Sir Donkey since I have so little to go on. Speak up, Eonwe, please!

I guess that leaves Celuien and Boromir to be the remaining wolves. I'm pretty confident at least another of them is a furry beast. I distrust Boromir more than Celuien.

One of my reasons to suspect Celuien is this: Celuien: Now here is a strange one. She hasn't said anything good today, or then I'm too blind to see. She might be a wolf but today we can't vote her out really can we?When I read this, it screamed to me "fellow wolf, fellow wolf". The legendary wolf tactic; suspect, but not too strongly. I might be underestimating Volo's intelligence or ability to do tactics in ww (sorry if I'm doing so), but I think it'd be very easy for an inexperienced wolf to act this way. (More experinced players could maybe avoid this since they know how people usually expect wolves to treat their fellows.)

I must admit that my suspicion of Celuien and Boromir is based on general impressions and feelings of other people's innocence rather than pure reason and facts. I will thus try to manage to do an analysis of both of them in order to clear my mind and hopefully bring up something new points, either for or against their guilt.

Thinlómien

10-03-2006, 03:34 AM

Celuien analysis

Day 1
#14 Just checks in. Says she's against random votes too. §§ Pretty much all reasonable people are.
#21 Says that avoiding strategic discussion hurts the village more than the wolves and all the village has to go on is strategy and open debate. Says we need to have to win as a village. Says that village having a tactic or not having one is same in that sense that the wolves can use both against us. §§ Speaks sense. I agree with her. Does not seem wolvish.
#24 States the common opinion(/misunderstanding?): "I'd thought Menel suggested laying out how to find wolves, and Boro had said that doing that would let the wolves use that info against us." Says the same as I comment below: discussion surely benefits the village more than the wolves, unless it goes to extreme. Says she does not know a red flag before she sees it. §§ Again, she speaks sense and thinks the same way as I do.
#34 Agrees with me that Durelin and Glirdan are just being themselves and says she's a part of the majority that don't have any specail suspects. §§ She seems to think exactly along the same lines as I do.
#40 Votes Volo. Says she can't get a read on the posts and it makes her uncomfortable. §§ She means Volo's posts? They were somewhat difficult to grasp at. What is notable here, is that she cast the second vote for Volo. Second vote is often the important one. Though there was much suspicion of other people (Foley, Glirdy) around, I'm not sure if a fellow wolf would risk this.

Boromir analysis

Day 1
#7 Presents his (in)famous comment on discussing tactics: says that if the village speaks of the tactics openly it is easier to hide for the wolves as they know how we expect them to act. Agrees that random-votes are bad. §§ I don't get his point; the discussion surely benefits the village more than the wolves, unless it goes to extreme, eg. "ten rules how to spot a wolf". And what do you on Day1 if not discuss tactics? In-character bantering? On random votes, see what I said about Celuien's first post.
#17 Says: " . . there must be some sort of unity amongst us . . . but our best chance of winning comes down trust in individuals (and that's where the unity comes in). Do I want to trust you? Do you want to trust me? As the days go on we will all be able to establish our own cases against who we think are the wolves and the people we feel safe about." Explains his earlier words as: ". . . I don't think it's a good idea to talk about what we will be looking for the wolves to do, because that makes it far too easier for wolves to hide in and look innocent. If I spot something that looks wolvish, I go right after and jump on it. I don't like to discuss my own personal strategy as far as what I'm looking for the wolves to do, because that makes it easier for the wolves to get on my 'innocent' side, as they will know my mind and what I'm looking for." Half jokingly points out Glirdan's too dramatic reaction on Sleepy's death. §§ I'm not sure if I agree with his earlier theory or if it makes sense, but his explanation of his opinions makes sense. However, he seems to be taking back his words a bit. He might be only clearing his words, but he might also be adding bits in to sound more reasonable.
#28 Compares ww to poker. (= You don't want the opponent to know your cards.) Agrees with Folwren about Durelin. Foley said: "Why the crazy and random vote the THE Ka, Durelin? I really dislike random votes like that, but it makes me think that. . . that a wolf wouldn't do it. I don't know why I think it." Boromir says he dislikes random voting, but does not understand why do people always think that the first random voter of the day is a wolf. Is suspicious of Glirdan because he votes Durelin because of randomness and in the next sentence states his own vote as quite random. Says that Menel, Eonwe, Folwren and Rune all seem sensible so far. §§ Poker analogy makes sense, but I see a slight contradiction in the Foley-Durelin case. Flip-flopping perhaps? First he says he agrees with Folwren (who was suspecting Durelin) and then he questions the logic of accusing the first random voter. Thus, he questions his own logic (if I understood him right) and ain any case he questions the logic of the person he agreed with in the previous sentence.
#37 Suspects Mac because he's acting un-macalaureishly. (Says he does not get the same solid, innocent feeling of Mac as he usually does.) §§ As pointed out by some people before, I find this quite hasty. Mac had just posted one post that implied (at least to me) that he's to be back.
#47 Quick summary on people. Menel, Nogrod = seem innocent, contribute, Rune = gives him the benefit of doubt, says he would expect more posting from him, Ka = agrees with her reasoning, says she's sensible, Thinlomien = good points about Foley, seems innocent for now, Eonwe = good points about evidence. At this phase, adds that mathematically it's very possible, that one of the people listed above is wolf. Summary continues: Diamond = difficult to read and thus dangerous, Volo = shady, could be a great asset, Durelin, Celuien = more worried of other people than them, Folwren = a bit too protective, Mac = suspects for previously mentioned reasons and because of "the behavior of 'discussing strategy is good, but it doesn't help us because no one will ever agree.'", Glirdan = suspicious. §§ I've never understood the point of saying who one does not suspect and then counting the mathematical possibility of a wolf on the list. Surely the list is tried to make thus that it contains no wolves so if the analyser is even a bit clever, the lsit should have less wolves than mathematically would seem probable. (I'm not sure if I'm making sense at all, but my main point is that mathematics are just confusing things in this kind of place.) Besides, his maths is little shady. He gives the first half six persons and one wolf, the sencond seven persons and two wolves, from six and seven it's almost as possible that the gorup of six has two wolves as that it's the group of seven that have two wolves, if one thinks only mathematically. I kind of missed Mac's "the behavior of 'discussing strategy is good, but it doesn't help us because no one will ever agree.'".
#54 Leaves and votes Mac with gut.

Day 1 conclusions
Celuien - If A is innocent and does thing x and B does thing x too, can we assume B's innocence? Not maybe, though it seems probable. Can we by that assume that B's guilty? No way. I'm leaning to Celuien's innocence and seriously consider quitting analysing her since she seems to think exactly the same way as I do. Either she's imitating an innocent logic very well or she's really innocent.
Boromir - Why, o why, did I ever promise myself to analyse him? He speaks so much that it will take a year. :p He's quite, though not overtly, suspicious and my main suspect. (Of course, my opinion might change, this was only Day1 analysis.)

I'm off to have a pause and then to continue maybe...

EDIT: I seem to be back to my old habit of flooding...

Nogrod

10-03-2006, 03:41 AM

I'm back too and have just read the posts written after my last visit.

This is getting annoyingly complicated! (OOC: that's why I love this game!)

With a quick glance I might join those who think that Durelin's list is the best we have thus far and will try to see it further.

I also tend to agree with Boro that there may be something very crafty going on behind the curtains as all the "talkers" have been looking at wrong directions after Day1...

And then one more thing. I'm not sure whether Di was taken as a random. I have started to doubt it somewhat. Think of it this way. Firstly, the wolves had just gained a jackpot (three dead innocents) so they really could afford a little more risky kill the next Night. This would have been their chance to go for it! But they didn't. Secondly, my family-memoires tell me that when the lycanthrophes come up with a suspicion that someone is the Seer they will go for her/him whatever the cost. And as Di didn't overtly behave like a Seer, she must have gotten something right by chance to make the wolves go after her?

Or then those beasts were just incredibly lucky in being somewhat careful non-risk takers last Night...

Thinlómien

10-03-2006, 03:59 AM

Glad I'm not the only one around.

I reread Diamond the Seer's summary post. If from that I would have to make out who she dreamed of, I'd say Durelin and Folwren. She seems to be most sure of Foley's innocence and Durelin she frees of guilt with rather mystic reasons "I don't know why I don't suspect her". Maybe these were the clues why wolves were after her. I don't know.

Please, please fellow villagers, as stupid as is to do a double lynch is to narrow down the number of lynch candidates because Diamond might have dreamed of them. Seers can trust some people though they have not dreamed of them. Just like ordos do. And they can get it wrong, too. I think whole this list-business is leading us to nowhere.

Now, I'm off, but I will return about 2h before the deadline. I have a bad feeling that I won't be able to complete my Boro-analysis.

Celuien

10-03-2006, 05:31 AM

There is also the possibility that the Mytho is another ordinary innocent.
True. But that would also give us another known ordo - the mytho and the ordinary pick. Almost like having another dream...

I haven't time to go through an analysis right now, unfortunately. Gut feeling tells me that Nogrod and Ka are innocent. Eonwe's response to my question a few posts up felt right, which leads me to think that he is also innocent.

Boro has calmed the suspicions I had yesterday, which may or may not be a good thing. His lupine ancestors have been quite good at tricking me. Be that as it may, I'm back to trusting him again on the basis of toDay's posts, though this is subject to change at any moment. I have trouble feeling certain about him. :rolleyes:

Which brings me to Rune. Rune's pressing me to explain the details of why I thought Glirdan innocent is unsettling. I can think of a couple of very good reasons to let that topic drop. He's my top suspect right now. And since I may not back it back before the deadline:

++ Rune

If Rune turns out to be a wolf, Boro's defense of Rune may implicate him. Otherwise, though I find it hard to get a read on Lommy, she may be the other wolf. I just can't tell.

Nogrod

10-03-2006, 06:28 AM

I'll go with a couple of suggestions.

I fully agree with Lommy that the Seer is as prone to make wrong judgements as we others are. Di's vote for Mac yesterDay kind of underlines the fact.

But I still would like to cross-examine different possibilities we have here.

1.
Di's a known innocent by now, so there is no malice included in her thoughts and as it is highly probable that she knew at least of one innocent, let's se her list once again.

Of those yet alive she held innocent:

Durelin: Durelin I feel fairly comfortable with at this time. Not sure why, as she hasn’t posted very much and her Day 1 post was kind of flaky. But I’ve seen Durelin play before as an innocent (heck, as a gifted) and this isn’t unusual and doesn’t mean she isn’t being helpful. In #98 she brings up a phrase of Mac’s that I also puzzled over – however I ended up just deciding that his grammar was off and am not sure whether anything more can be read into it. If it is a slip of a deeper kind, could be quite telling, but I don’t know, those kinds of phrase fudges can be innocently made in haste.

Nogrod: Augh. The idea of going through all Noggie’s posts just killed me a little. But since he has been very talkative I’ve already formed a feel for him, and I don’t suspect him at this point. His vote for Volo speaks well, unless it’s a fenrising, but I’ll worry about that later if I should have reason to. For now, I’m not even considering voting Noggie so I’ll skip re-reading all his posts.

Boro: Boro is kind of the same story as Nogrod for me. If I had been able to start this earlier and not forced to cram it into 2 hours, I’d go over his posts but I’m starting to do this shorthand. At any rate, he voted for Mac whom I was also a bit suspicious of yesterday (still am) so nothing about that raises red flags.

Celuien: Celuien feels pretty innocent to me at this time. Her posts have all been calm and reasonable. Maybe she gets her serenity from knowing who are wolves and who are not, but at this time I don’t feel suspicious enough to start speculating on that. Nothing factual really supports it. She cast a vote for Volo at a time when putting him in the lead on a day notorious for spread out votes, so unless she was trying to fenris wolf him, I look favorably on her voting record.

She seemed to be unsure about:

Eonwe: Day 1 is pretty much par for the Eonwe course as far as I know. If I recall correctly, he usually gets lynched just by annoying people with his random voting. Day 2 he speaks less, but gives a pretty well reasoned vote for Glirdan (as these things go). Right now I haven’t really got a feel on him either way, but I don’t think I’ve ever been able to get a feel on him in the past, so this isn’t surprising.

Lommy: Well I don’t have much to go on. I really have nothing to observe on except that I dislike not having anything to observe on. She did seem to overestimate my posting, saying Diamond didn't start with cuddly in-character bantering? I'm not sure what to make of this either, but it's nice to see her starting serious discussion this early.
I’m not sure who’s posts she was reading but it wasn’t mine. I mean, I did start in character, with links! And then said nothing of great consequence beside yawning over the Day 1ishness of the Day so far. So. Weird. Also, she called me cuddly. Like Snuggles the Fabric Softener Teddy Bear? Them’s fighting words.

Yeah, so basically, a whole lot of nothing. Shady….

The Ka: Bit at a loss about Ka. She voted Volo for reasons I don’t quite understand, and since she turned out to be right could be seen as having good instincts or being in the know. Her vote was cast at a particularly safe time, being the first to vote for Volo, so this could well be wolf-on-wolf tactics. On Day 2 she has so far made some statements speculating on how the wolves are behaving, which kind of doesn’t give me much of an idea about anything.

Rune: I’m still kind of clueless about Rune, which made me uncomfortable enough to vote for him Day 1. However, I think I have enough suspicions of others after Day 2 to vote for one of them.

So it seems that Di wasn't going after anyone in particular (except Glirdy and Mac! :confused: ), if not for Rune, but even that was a bit mild.

It would be easy then to conclude that the wolves didn't kill Di because they thought she was the Seer as they had no reason to believe her the Seer in the first place? I'm quite ready to buy into that argument, but I still have some reservations with it. Something just dosn't feel right here. I'll try to elaborate that during the Day.

2.
But let's take another list first. Volo's list of other people from his last post just before he died (and I agree with those who say he wasn't quite up to the situaton and was writing the stuff with the following Days in mind).

I have checked Boro's neat listing (#100) and have added Boro to the "innocent -list" and moved The Ka from innocents to the "don't knows / unsures". I hope that looks fair enough to you others.

Who Volo named as innocent:

Menel - known innocent
Mac - known innocent
Lommy - ?
Nogrod - ?
Rune - ?
Boro - ?

Who Volo was unsure about:

The Ka - ?
Glirdan - known innocent
Diamond - known innocent
Durelin - ?

Who Volo thought was suspicious:

Folwren - known innocent
Eonwe - ?
Celuien - ?

So eight questionmarks there and two wolves among them. If the list would have ben made by a dying wolf named Spm, Morm, Spawn, or the like I would be quite ready to raise my hands and contend that we might as well forget the list as it would be full of bluffs, double bluffs, triple bluffs... But with Volo I might like to have a look at it.

I'm inclined to agree with Boro that Volo mightn't suspect his fellows openly (it's possible, though). So it would leave the "unsures" and "innocents" to be the possible wolves. After I have taken out myself and Durelin whom I consider innocent, as well as Boro, not so trusty as with Durelin, but still. It leaves me with a list of Rune, Lommy and The Ka.

So did I learn anything from this?

If Diamond was up to something and the wolves got nervous, then it looks a little bad for Rune, Lommy and The Ka, I would say. But, but... Di's suspicions of them are so openly roundabout, that I'm not sure whether they would actually make the wolves nervous in the first place. Then again, the list based on Di's "suspicions", "know nots" or "unsure ofs" or whatever, happens to be the same list I get suspicious from Volo's posting.

Must think about this further...

Thinlómien

10-03-2006, 07:37 AM

I might be stupid. I might be wise.

However, I and my left and right eye wish to come out of the closet.

I'm the original seer.

Diamond was the mytho who chose me on Night2. (Obviously, since she was discovered a seer.) So stop analysing her lists. She did not get any dreams. Sleepy hinted this:Friends,
Time is scarce. Things have tourned sour. Diamond18 was your seer but do not despair there are things you do not see, things you do not know. Perhaps in the end this will work in your favor. I must be quick for I fear if I am found out there shall be nothing preventing the wolves from picking you all off. Your numbers have dwindled greatly.

I wish you luck!
The Phantom of the Battle-O-Bands

Rune, Nogrod and THE Ka are ordos. That I know.

Celuien, I guess you're the ranger and thus must die next night I fear. Your reluctance to lynch Glirdy and obvious innocence on Day1 led me to this. Please come out too and protect me next night. We'll win.

That leaves us with three unsures: Boro, Eonwe and Durelin. Of these two are wolves. I'm very inclined to believe Boro a wolf.

If Cel protects me next Night, I'll get one more dream and we win the next day, regardless of who I dream of.

Of course, if this tactic will not give results, you know I'm a bluffing wolf and can kill me... :p I can't think of any profit a wolf could get of this.

THE Ka

10-03-2006, 07:38 AM

Ugh... Okay, well it looks like my RL schedule is getting in the way of this game again, especially today, Tuesdays are my long days, and this most likely will be my last post for awhile. So, I am probably going to have to make a vote in this one. If I am lynched for it, I really don't mind. My RL schedule is just messing this game up horribly, and I am falling behind in analyzing.

The Ka (who seems more active today like she's anxious to keep the people who are talking against eachother and come under scrutiny) View this post.

( Again, refer to my lack of free time that has been developing as of late, and my relative's death. I'm just too far behind on the wrong day. :( )

I guess I can give one last bit of thoughts on my mind.

I'm not going to vote immediately for Lommy, due to I understand and agree her RL, she has said in the admin thread that she would had a limit to net access this week, and I can understand this.

Here is something I've noticed, and I don't know how helpful it is, but it just seems alittle, well, too friendly...

There was no anger in my post, or at least none intended. It was defensive though, but that's how I am when I get suspected.

I don't know how to put this completely, but it just seems interesting to note how whenever rune or boro explain something about their voting, they will nit pick at little details (like most people do... it's natural in a ww game), then either one will convince the other, and then it is compliments and reassurances. It just seems a bit, well, fishy. I am going to have to agree with Thinlomien about Boro, but just because someone analyzes quite alot, does not mean they can leave all ends trimmed up. Over-analyzing can seem like a fuzzy warm blanket of safety, or barrier of truth, though in this case, I think quite alot of talk is as suspicious as no activity at all...

If I agree with you I'll say I agree with you. If I disagree with you I'll say I disagree with you. I'm straight forward and blunt, there's no hidden messages, nor clues, nor secret evil intentions throughout any of my posts. I say what I mean.

Let me give you this poker analogy, you don't want your opponent to know your plan, or how you are playing. Beacuse, if they do you are too easy to predict and the other players and they will make you pay for it. I find Werewolf to be the same, I don't want the wolves knowing my mind, so I won't say what I find to be wolvish. Now, if something does look wolvish to me, I'm going to jump out and say so, but I won't discuss what I'm looking for in order to find wolves.

There are no 'secret messages', because if following the poker method, they never will leave what is concluded in one's head. That I agree. You cannot trust anyone in a game of poker, the same as with ww.

Though, jumping out and saying something without much of a conclusion (over-analyzing can have not much of a conclusion too, as never saying much), is equally suspicious for wolfish behaviour, and is the same behaviour as voting for others who vote at random, as on the first day.

I am finding this plan, though I may agree with certain aspects of it, a bit too suspicious. Especially right now.

I do not have enough free time as others as to entirely write out a long, rambling post on this, but I think I have done as much as I can for now.

As I said before, Tuesday is my long day, so I will not have time to finish anything, and I completely understand voting for me on this fact. I have to leave now, and I better get my vote up, since I do not have any time to later, so...

++Boromir88

Rune Son of Bjarne

10-03-2006, 07:50 AM

Well, I for one belive Lommy, we are simply too clueles for a wolf to pull such a bluff.

and Celuin, I thought you were the seer. . . I then forgot that the Hunter and Ranger knew each others identety, that is why I was stupid enought to bring that subject up.

Nogrod

10-03-2006, 07:58 AM

That was news, Lommy!

I was just writing something about these revealments, but now things seem to appear in a new light...

I'm all for lynching toDay one - or two! - of your candidates, namely Boro, Eonwe or Durelin. Assuming there is no way we get it totally twisted... But it looks good to my eye.

If we lynch both Eonwe and Boro toDay, with a good luck we win immediately. If not, we kill the last wolf toMorrow. And if neither of them is a wolf, then Lommy has fooled us and we lynch her toMorrow.

Nice. And we have already won, I suppose... :) :cool:

Thinlómien

10-03-2006, 08:01 AM

But we must be careful with the vote so that the wolves can't mess it up. I unfortunately have to leave an hour before the deadline or so.

Nogrod

10-03-2006, 08:03 AM

Although with a second thought I'm not so sure whther we actually manage to make a double lynch toDay as Boro and/or Eonwe (were they the wolves) might twist the vote so that it reults in only one lynch...

X-d with Lommy

Thinlómien

10-03-2006, 08:04 AM

Well I think then Boro should be the one lynched today.

Rune Son of Bjarne

10-03-2006, 08:05 AM

Boro and Eonwe would be my choises as well.

Being genraly clueless I would never build a solid case, but Durelin and Flowren is the only ones I have never considered voting for.

Nogrod

10-03-2006, 08:11 AM

Maybe we should not go for the double lynch in the first place.

Two wolves may generate three votes for Rune now as he already has one. And there are only four votes then left so we can't make two of those three to top Rune's possible three votes...

I have time to drop in toDay every once in awhile, so let's think what to do.

Boromir88

10-03-2006, 08:13 AM

You are absolutely completely wrong, Lommy isn't the original Seer! Gah, this is so aggravating!

Nogrod

10-03-2006, 08:15 AM

You are absolutely completely wrong, Lommy isn't the original Seer! Gah, this is so aggravating! :D

Well, I've just started counting, whether we still can lose this game... But this looks good - albeit the tension is falling down a bit...

Rune Son of Bjarne

10-03-2006, 08:20 AM

well we should decide who to vote for soon. . . Boro ?

Boromir88

10-03-2006, 08:23 AM

Stop getting fooled by the accursed Lommy.

Night 1 I dreamt of Nogrod
Night 2 I dreamt of Mac
Night 3 I dreamt of Durelin

Gutsy move miss Wolf, but I doubt it's going to pay off for your buddy who would be the lone wolf amongst a short list of people:

Eonwe
Celuien
Rune
The Ka

Nogrod

10-03-2006, 08:26 AM

Well indeed!

If this is to be the end of us, then it is just so mind-bogglingly cunning and bold move from a wolf Lommy that I almost feel well to lose to her then and am first to admit that she has then really outwitted me... :rolleyes:

But yes, it's possible. According to Lommy there are three unknowns of which two are wolves. If she fools us, so in the worst possible scenario we lynch an innocent toDay and another dies toNIght. Then toMorrow we lynch yet another innocent and after the next Night there are four left, two of them wolves (and surely in this scenario the other wolf besided Lommy is either The Ka or Rune) and the game is over, won by the wolves...

X-d with Boro

Boromir88

10-03-2006, 08:28 AM

She has outwitted you, Nogrod. I can't believe this. I gotta go, you want to lynch me fine, but I beg you to lynch Thinlo tomorrow, she's the master wolf behind all this. Which not automatically gets me wondering about Rune who seems so anxious to just lynch me off all of a sudden.

It has to be Rune and Lommy.

Nogrod

10-03-2006, 08:31 AM

Two seers already... :) So one wolf on the move.

I think lynching Boro is the safest way for us. If he indeed was the seer (which I strongly doubt) we'll lynch Lommy toMorrow and then we will have a 3-1 ratio for the goodies the next morning...

X-d with Boro again...

Eonwe

10-03-2006, 08:32 AM

:eek: :eek: :eek:

Quite a develpment here, folks! A certain verse springs to mind "Back from the brink, rode the five hundred!"

Who should we lynch, Lommy or Boro, or both? A double lynch would solve our problems nicely. One is certainly a wolf. But then we would have no seer later. So we could just lynch until we find the wolf?

I'll vote with the consensus, becuase as far as I'm conserned, its a toss up.

PS. Way to go, Boro, or Lommy, whichever one is true to us!

Thinlómien

10-03-2006, 08:35 AM

I've experienced this before... *coughNogrodcough* Boro, maybe you too would like to announce that you're not a gifted? ;)

I can't believe this. I gotta go, you want to lynch me fine, but I beg you to lynch Thinlo tomorrow, she's the master wolf behind all this.Okay. Let's lynch him today and me tomorrow and see who's right. The real seer wouldn't propose her/his own lynch today, because that would give the wolves another chance. I actually like the plan of lynching Boro.

EDIT: xed with Noggie and Eonwe

Thinlómien

10-03-2006, 08:37 AM

Who should we lynch, Lommy or Boro, or both? Even from your point of view you should see that if you do a double lynch, the village won't get a dream.

Boromir88

10-03-2006, 08:38 AM

Drat, I had this going right exactly the way I wanted it, cursed Thinlo.

I'll be a little help to you and tell you who my partner is, yep that's right I can do that.

Eonwe's my partner, that quiet, slip in the background wolf...

or maybe

Durelin's my partner, yep we were steering this village exactly the way we wanted it to go and were doing quite perfectly...I mean I could taste a win this morning.

I forget actually.

Lommy it's very dangerous to make assumptions...though, you better be right, or you have just single-handedly caused the death of this village.

++Lommy

Eonwe

10-03-2006, 08:40 AM

Hmmmm, lets take this slowly. I'v got this list, and lets see where it takes us.

To be suspected:

Thinlomien
Celuien
Eonwe
Durelin
Boromir88

Innocents:

Rune
THE Ka
Nogrod

Possible seers:

Lommy
Boro

I'm half inclined to believe Lommy, but of course we'll never know until one of tehm is dead.

haha well that clears that up. lynch boro today and then through prossess of elimination, take down the wolf left. unsportsmanlike? maybe. effective? definitely!

++BORO

Thinlómien

10-03-2006, 08:41 AM

I don't see your point, Boro. Regardless of which I dream of I know who's the remaining wolf.

Nogrod

10-03-2006, 08:42 AM

Okay. I'm done with my thinking.

I have felt a bit uneasy about Boro almost whole game but have decided to listen and hear more to have something more solid against him or for his innocence for that matter.

But this kind of settles it.

++ Boromir

As I said earlier: I think lynching Boro is the safest way for us. If he indeed was the seer (which I strongly doubt) we'll lynch Lommy toMorrow and then we will have a 3-1 ratio for the goodies the next morning...

EDIT: X-d with at least three last ones

Thinlómien

10-03-2006, 08:42 AM

Eonwe, why do you take my dreamed of innocents' innocence as granted but not mine? :p Flip-floppy wolf here, maybe?

Thinlómien

10-03-2006, 08:43 AM

++Boromir

Rune Son of Bjarne

10-03-2006, 08:44 AM

++boromir

Boromir88

10-03-2006, 08:45 AM

Lommy? What are you doing you're not suppose to vote for me.

Nogrod

10-03-2006, 08:46 AM

Rune, Lommy, Durelin!

It's looking quite obvious, or at least believable, that it indeed is Boro and Eonwe. And they both have voted already. Maybe we could still arrange the double lynch and get this done?

Nogrod

10-03-2006, 08:47 AM

LATE!!!!! :)

Okay, toMorrow we need then...

Boromir88

10-03-2006, 08:47 AM

You tried Nogrod...too bad, very noble of you though.

Thinlómien

10-03-2006, 08:47 AM

Lommy? What are you doing you're not suppose to vote for me.Are you sure you didn't mix me up with Eonwe? He's so feminine, you know. (Sorry, Eonwe. :p )

EDIT: xed with Noggie x2 and Boro x1

Nogrod

10-03-2006, 08:51 AM

You tried Nogrod...too bad, very noble of you though.Thanks Boro. It's always a pleasure to play with you. I hope we can be on the same side one day...

Thinlómien

10-03-2006, 08:53 AM

Boro, I let you roam freely as you seem to like making up a good show so much... ;) Fellow villagers, enjoy the Late Night With Boromir88.

And sleep well. If Celuien protects me, we win. Very simple.

Durelin

10-03-2006, 09:03 AM

Huh... Well. Okay...

Funny something like this should happen again. And I find it crazy that Lommy is the seer again...

Eh, let's switch things up a bit...

++Eonwe

Boromir88

10-03-2006, 09:07 AM

Haha Thinlo, I'm glad you let me roam a little bit. Still, curse you and my spirit will get it's revenge.

Sleepy Ranger

10-03-2006, 10:05 AM

Boromir be dead, Boromir be wolf. Death shall be up soon.

Right then,
Seer dream, Ranger protect and Fox-Die (Three points for whoever gets the reference :p) ahem, I mean Wolf kill. :)

Sleepy Ranger

10-04-2006, 12:05 PM

Start the day. Nobody died tonight. Sorry I haven't got Boro's death up yet (or this death thought there isn't any...) but I've been tied up-ish. Which gave me an idea so Boro's death shall be woven into a greater thread of wickedness or something along those lines.

Wait and watch. ;)

Nogrod

10-04-2006, 02:40 PM

Waiting for the mailman, I see...

Celuien

10-04-2006, 04:09 PM

So we are...

Anyway, sorry I missed the excitement yesterDay!

I'm the Ranger, and that's how I knew about Glirdan.

Eonwe, or Durelin?

Rune Son of Bjarne

10-04-2006, 05:13 PM

I say Eonwe or both

Durelin

10-04-2006, 05:47 PM

Eonwe, or Durelin?

:rolleyes:

If you think my vote yesterDay points to anything...well, good for you. :p

Trust me, I'm not a wolf. I just suck that much at finding them. ;)

(Sorry about the smilie abuse...)

Rune Son of Bjarne

10-04-2006, 05:53 PM

Well Thinlomien should give us the answer later to day. . .no need for that pesky trusting people. . .

Celuien

10-04-2006, 06:03 PM

. . .no need for that pesky trusting people. . .
Haha. It is pesky, isn't it? All of my back and forth with Boromir, for example. I trusted him enough to guard him on the first night. Isn't that embarrassing? :rolleyes:

*waits for Lommy*

Rune Son of Bjarne

10-04-2006, 06:09 PM

Well compared to how I have played, you have nothing to be ashamed of.

Eonwe

10-04-2006, 07:39 PM

Perry Mason: From now on, I will be handleing all official business of my client, Eonwe. I will not be answering any questions at this time. We will be making a short statement shortly. All I can say now is that we expect my client to be fully acquited of the charges levied against him.

Take if from him, folks!

Thinlómien

10-05-2006, 02:08 AM

*a show-off arrival*

The last wolf is Mister Donkey.

++Eonwe

Rune Son of Bjarne

10-05-2006, 02:26 AM

ok

++Eonwe

Nogrod

10-05-2006, 02:31 AM

I guess most of us were pretty confused. At one point I was honestly ready to see fault in everyone... :confused:

And that Di-bussiness really added some flavor. :D

But here we go now...

++ Eonwe

Thinlómien

10-05-2006, 02:36 AM

And that Di-bussiness really added some flavor. :D
Indeed. You can imagine what I thought when everybody was trying to find clues from her posts and I knew there were none...

Celuien

10-05-2006, 04:48 AM

++ Eonwe

Three cheers for Lommy!

Sleepy Ranger

10-05-2006, 12:53 PM

Sorry I'm late. I've been overloaded with school work and am not feeling that well. If it's fine with everyone, you'll have to wait till tomorrow for the end of the game. Sorry, I know you've been waiting but I'm just feeling a bit sick. :(

Sleepy Ranger

10-06-2006, 09:54 AM

The musicians lined up Boromir88. It was his turn to die. He had already come out as wolf earlier and it seemed his partner had been nailed down as well. It would be one stone at a time though. Boromir88 would die first. Before facing his death though he requested a last song. And as the others for him too the phantom band began to play.

Boro waited till he finished high school,
He went to hollywood, got a tattoo,
He met a werewolf out there with a tattoo too,
The future was wide open,

They moved into a place they both could afford,
He found another wolf, they could work as a band,
They had a guitar and they knew some chords,
The sky was the limit,

Into the great wide open,
Under them skies of darkness,
Out in the great wide open,
A rebel without a clue...

The papers said Boro always played from the heart,
He got an agent and a roadie named Volo,
They made a record and it went in the charts,
The sky was the limit,

His furry hair had claws that would strangle,
They all ate movie stars, parted and mangled,
Their a&r man said I dont hear a single,
The future was wide open,

Into the great wide open,
Under them skies of darkness,
Out in the great wide open,
A rebel without a clue...

Into the great wide open,
Under them skies of darkness,
Into the great wide open,
A rebel without a clue...

Boromir88 then laid down his guitar and smiled at the rest. "You need not worry. I will do this myself." That said he transformed himself into a wolf. The others backed away. Boromir did not attack them though. He moved over to the shell and let out a howl. He made his way to the large sound system and ripped apart the wires, binding himself in them.

Celuien had made her way up there as well and she flipped on the switch. The current filled the wires, now free of their casing. The live wires covered Boromir's skin. He let out a piercing howl as Celuien splashed some water on him. Sparks began to fly. "It's gonna blow..." said Nogrod lazily. And it did. Celuien was thrown forward by the blast but she seemed unharmed. Boromir88 though... was dead. Only one wolf remained...

Sleepy Ranger

10-06-2006, 10:14 AM

When Eowen had been asked to play a final song he had rejected and turned into wolf form. Now he was chasing the surviving musicians, things did not look that good. The fact that even Celuien was running confirmed this. "Celuien! Kill him!" Shouted Thinlomien desperately. "Why me?" Said Celuien in the tone you use when you wish to see, 'Why is it always me? Why don't you do it for once?' "Because you're the ranger." Said Thinlomien.

"I protect. I don't kill." Replied Celuien. Thinlomien said nothing further, mainly due to the fact that she was running out of breath. Eonwe was fiercely close now. All he had to do was reach out and he would have had Nogrod in his arms but that would mean standing on his hind legs. Running was difficult on two legs when in wolf form.

Nogrod could not see anyone ahead of him. Thinlomien and Celuien had been in front of him but they seemed to have vanished. As he ran he risked a look over his shoulder. Eonwe did not seem to be chasing him either. He began to slow down a bit, came to a walk and then stopped running all together. He would have screamed as he was jerked behind a corner had someone not covered his mouth. He did not fight back though, he smiled instead. It was Rune. In fact they were all there, hiding from Eonwe.

It seemed like an hour to them but it had only been five minutes. "Do you hear that?" whispered Eonwe. No, they could hear... wait... there was something... music... from behind the shell...

All our times have come,
Here but now they're gone,
Seasons don't fear the werewolf
Nor do the wind, the sun or the rain... we can be like they are
Come on you few... don't fear the reaper
take my hand... don't fear the werewolf
We'll be able to fly... don't fear the werewolf
I'm your man...

The battle of the bands is done
Here but now they're gone
Lyrics and music
Are together in eternity... lyrics and music
40,000 men and women everyday... Like lyrics and music
40,000 men and women everyday... Redefine happiness
Another 40,000 coming everyday... We can be like they are
Come on music makers... don't fear the werewolf
Take my hand.. .don't fear the werewolf
I'm your man...

Love of two is one
Here but now they're gone
Came the last night of sadness
And it was clear he should go on
Then the door was open and the wind appeared

"LOOK!" Thinlomien gasped out. There, behind the shell, the panels began to move apart. There was a room, lit by candles. They began to move towards it slowly.

The candles blew then disappeared

They candles blew out. The room was now in darkness but the company did not stop, they pressed forwards.

The curtains flew then he appeared... saying don't be afraid

A man stepped out from inside. He looked... different. There was something odd about him. Not bad but he wasn't right. Something was... different.

Come on you few... and have no fear

They had broken into a run. Eonwe had found them and was in pursuit again. They were running towards the man. He did not seem right but...

The song cut off there. The world seemed to evaporate. They were all floating. They tried to move but they could not. They looked at each other. Eonwe was there too and he could not move either. They were free... but something was not right. There, ahead in the distance was a bright light and that man. That man, something was not right.

***

Thinlomien was the first to see it. The man was Sleepy Cowell, no... now he was Glirdan... now he wasn't a he, she was Folwren. And then Diamond18 and then all of them and it was weird. That thing seemed to represent all the musicians who had died. "Immortality." A voice echoed. "Choose now. Do you wish to become a real star or drop back down?" Nobody replied. "Choose now or I'll make your choice." Came the voice again.

"Me! Me! Immortality!" Eonwe shouted out. "Very well. As for the rest of you." The figure snapped it's fingers and the rest of them floated back down safely. They looked up and saw stars twinkiling bright in the sky. They made a count only five shone prominently. More than five had died and Eonwe too had picked to become a star. It seemed that he had been tricked. Only Menel, Glirdan, Macalaure, Folwren and Diamond18 had become stars.

Elsewhere Eonwe was bursting with excitement at the though of becoming a star. He looked longingly at the figure who again snapped it's fingers. This time there was not a floating sensation though Eonwe was moving again. In fact this time it hurt. Five stars had surrounded Eonwe and rammed into him leaving the rest of him rather uh... dead.

So ends our musical tale. The five who survived dropped out of the public eye and worked together to try and figure out what had really happened. Rumors of Menel sightings began to spring up and it seemed both Glirdan and Macalaure had made appearances at music contests. Folwren seemed to have vanished from mainstream but there were few who whispered her name. As for Diamond, nobody ever heard of her but she never faded. She was still there up in the sky watching over the world. Sparkling silently.

As for what become of Sleepy Cowell? We're not sure either and we don't think we want to or need to know either. Some things are best left undisturbed. Besides, the worlds a better place without him.

Nogrod

10-08-2006, 12:05 PM

I'm sorry to intervene the flow of the ending story (and will remove this post in due time if it seems fit to do so), but isn't this a bit overstreched? I mean, it would be nice to exchange some comments with fellow-players before the memory of the game wanes and the new one begins...

An ending like this only serves to make the game fade out to insignifigance, just slowly decaying away, leaving no tracks whatsoever... :confused:

Sleepy Ranger

10-08-2006, 12:10 PM

Erm... sorry. Just been having a few problems. But by all means start discussions on the game. I'll just edit the rest into my post. :)

I think everyone did pretty well. Sorry to see Diamond have to die the very night she became seer. Nogrod was his usual self, Celuien did a pretty good job as a ranger and in the end the wolves were unlucky. Here are the choices the gifteds made,

Dreams-
Thinlo
Rune (Innocent)
Nogrod (Innocent)
Ka (Innocent)
Eonwe (Wolf)

Di18
Boro88 (Wolf)

Ranger-
Boromir88
Durelin
Eonwe

Celuien

10-08-2006, 12:16 PM

I did guard Lommy on the last night. Really. :p

Sleepy Ranger

10-08-2006, 12:22 PM

Oops... my bad... :p
Celuien did guard Thinlomien on the final night. :)

Volo

10-08-2006, 12:24 PM

Well, except for Sleepy's several mistakes (that seem to be for a reason, won't blame him, because somebody might then have a reason to blame me for mistakes :rolleyes: ) and my Fenrisism this seemed a rather good game. I can't understand why my fellow wolves killed Menel on night 1 though...
Lommy sure had good luck and used it rightly. And I even dared to hope that we might win, until Lommy and her eyes "came out of the closet".

Glirdan

10-08-2006, 12:39 PM

You know what I don't get, why nobody dreams of me near the start...I'm always innocent. Always! But nobody seems to get that sooo....Ughh, whatever. Anyway, sorry Folwren. I really did think you were a Wolf. I've played with you and have watched you play before and you were acting really oddly. So again, sorry. And sorry I had to leave you so soon there Celuien. But hey, these guys just don't get it when I say I'm innocent. :rolleyes: :p

Celuien

10-08-2006, 12:48 PM

Thanks, Sleepy. I thought I was sufffering from some type of memory replacement for a minute.

But hey, these guys just don't get it when I say I'm innocent.
Well, I tried my best to stop them.

Should have listened to me when I kept saying Glirdy was innocent. :D :p

I'm a little surprised that I survived to the end. After all of my frantic warnings not to kill Glirdan, it was pretty obvious that I was either the Ranger or, as Rune thought, in possession of a dream about him, so I should have been an obvious target.

I wonder if Boro was constructing a double bluff with Menel's death...

Nothing wrong with Fenrisism, Volo. It puts you in some prestigious werewolf company. I didn't think you were overtly wolvish, but I couldn't figure you out, which was the reason for my vote. I think you had bad luck more than anything else, though as an innocent, it was good luck for me so I can't object. :smokin:

Nogrod

10-08-2006, 01:15 PM

Just a few comments on the game...

On wolves:

Volo cursed himself in the "What do you assign to Mordor"-thread. It was a bit sad he died so soon, but really, getting to a 2½ hours jog with a dog at the last hours of a game did sound a bit suspicious, avoiding the discussion... So just a remainder that we can deduct reasonable lynches even on Day1!

Eonwe was just as terrifying opponent I have been telling all my WW-history people like him are. I was about to suggest that we make a double lynch to do away with him but then decided not as there was that unhappy double-lynch already... So bad judgement from me!

Boro was a bit too nice all the time. It really caught my attention. But there was nothing concrete to build a case on so I thought that I should be friendly with him even though I voiced my suspicions mildly in the open for others to take the point of them. I hoped, were he the wolf, that he would have slipped something on the Days to come and decided to openly lean on his innocence just not to get myself killed. Well done, Boro!

On other matters:

Lommy is just the great seer! According to my lorebooks, she is only second to Boro! And her cool-headed revelation was just vintage-style werewolfing. Absolutely beautiful!

Although, I'm not sure if you all noticed my calculation after Lommy revealed herself (#171). Had she been a wolf and Di the real seer, the wolves would have won the game with us believing her story!

Di I feel really sorry about. She was just gearing up and had received seerness and then was killed right out. She even made the right guess as a seer but had no chance to actually come forwards with it! That must have been frustrating, not the least when she was reading us trying to come up with her "seer-hints" after her death!

Celuien I kind of trusted from the very beginning and that seemed to be worthwhile again. But I totally forgot about this rule that the Ranger and the Hunter may discuss and thence know each other! Had I just noticed that ruling and I might have done a better work for the village. The fool that I am. The lesson: everytime, read the rules of the particular game... :(

Durelin I tended to trust even before the (false) Di-revealment and did so to the end. Funny that some hunches actually work! :)

Folwren I must say acted a bit curiously in the beginning and here I agree with Glirdy. But as she got definitively to defend herself, there was no question of her genuiness, at least to me. So sad she had to go that way... the worse of all ways, I say

But that brings me to Glirdy. I was really lost with him. For one part I thought it was Glirdy as usual, on the other I looked at his somewhat suspicious manouvers on the thread... But to double-lynch him!

And Mac too I feel really sorry. He was - as Di - just getting the hang of it, and after he was lynched on that sorry Day (with Glirdy & Folwren) where many of us were not able to get online because of the BD collapse, it really felt unjustified.

In the end, before Lommy's revealment, I really began to believe that from the gang of Lommy, The Ka and Rune implicated by my interpretations of both Di and Volo would include at least one wolf. How much more wrong could one have been!

Rune really aroused some of my suspicions early in the game but seemed very reasonable towards the end of it. The Ka I held a bit suspicious just because she was so reasonable. A contradiction? No. A werewolf game... :p

But yes. A good game everyone! I really enjoyed playing with you!

Macalaure

10-08-2006, 02:01 PM

First I had no clue, then I had no time and then... I was dead! :eek:

It's a pity I had no time on the second day to fight against my lynching and so didn't have a chance to launch a Valier-style 'lynch Boro'-campaign on Day 3. Anyway, it was most entertaining to follow the game to the end. 2 ordos and 2 gifteds over one night! A horror! Before Lommy revealed herself I was pretty sure that that was it. If the mytho still was in the game and chose a wolf, it would have been the last day, after all.

But then the formidable Lommy saved the day.

Great game by everybody! (but me)

Boromir88

10-08-2006, 02:45 PM

Blasted Lommy foiled our plans...gah...well kudos to her for doing a good job and ensuring the innocent victory. I honestly began to taste victory as Eonwe and I had the village going exactly the way we wanted. Once Di was killed and I thought she was the real Seer, I knew Celuien was the Ranger, and was thinking clear sailing. As before Lommy's revelation, I tagged on with Durelin and wanted to get the village steering the way I wanted.

Nogrod, aye, you know as well as I do it's difficult as heck to be a talking wolf, as you always have to consider what you say...I wish I was like Eonwe and people didn't expect me to talk. Eonwe played quite perfectly and slipped into the background exactly as planned until the end there when everything unravelled due to Lommy.

To my other wolf buddy, Volo, sorry it didn't work out exactly as planned...I tried to do as much as possible without incriminating myself. And why we decided to go with Menel. We were worried about what you said towards Eonwe at the end, as it did look rather suspicious. So, we felt like either Nogrod or Menel would pick up on it, and it would be best to get rid of Menel since he didn't accuse either of us. Then I would come in the morning and twist around your posts the way I wanted it hoping the rest of the village would buy it. :D

Celuien and Rune turned out to be some thorns in my side. Celuien for coming after me there, and I thought she was the Ranger or the Hunter due to her interactions with Glirdan, so was worried about getting rid of her...as if she was the Hunter there was a time when I thought she would choose me. Then in that lucky double-lynch plus Folwren's death made everything easier.

Rune because of his late accusations of me, I just had to grit my teeth and try to convince everyone else that he had no idea what he was talking about.

Actually that double-lynch was completely unintended and by accident (sorry Glirdan). It was a very welcomed thing, but I had no plans or intentions on creating a double-lynch. I actually had that post up earlier but due to the technical difficulties of the day I couldn't post it until near end the deadline and I had to leave before seeing all that unfolded.

This was definitely a very interesting and fun game, congrats to Sleepy, I loved it.

Nogrod

10-08-2006, 03:50 PM

Nogrod, aye, you know as well as I do it's difficult as heck to be a talking wolf, as you always have to consider what you say...I wish I was like Eonwe and people didn't expect me to talk. I totally agree! Being a talkative wolf is just a hell (but pure fun!)... Sometimes I have thought of the same: how if I could play a game where no one waited that I contribute a lot? It would be fun indeed! Or in some cases of RL-rush, just what would be needed. Really: just making one or two casual short comments on each Day with enough sense and surviving to the end... :rolleyes:

That obviously is not for me, even if I would like to try that one time (and get killed immediately by the other villagers).

Eonwe played quite perfectly and slipped into the background exactly as planned until the end there when everything unravelled due to Lommy.Yes he did! And I can just blame myself to be too slow to jump on him as I normally would do on players who do not contribute much. I just thought that I'm repeating myself too much here to go for Eonwe and felt bad on doing it as I wanted to find different solutions from the "basic-Nogrod-game". My bad, as I said earlier.

But I will be even more staunchly against the quiet people from now on... :cool:

This was definitely a very interesting and fun game, congrats to Sleepy, I loved it.Yes it was a lots of fun! Sorry that you were caught so early and a good game ended so soon...

Sleepy could have been a little more up-to-date, but I for one understand the RL problems...

Eonwe

10-08-2006, 04:36 PM

Lommy... well, what can I say. You snatched away our victory when we were just beinging to savor it. Good job, though I hate to say it! ;)

Volo: sorry mate! But at least you joined the honorary Fenris Wolf club! :p (even if it was against your will...lol)

Boro: We shall be avenged my friend! These wrongs will not go unpunished...

All in all, this was a very enlightening game. I found a few things of interest:

Day 1 is pretty much par for the Eonwe course as far as I know. If I recall correctly, he usually gets lynched just by annoying people with his random voting.
:eek: I didn't know that!

Are you sure you didn't mix me up with Eonwe? He's so feminine, you know. (Sorry, Eonwe.)

Hmmm, that's a bit disconserting there, Lommy. Maybe I should swear more often, or heft some large boulders, or kill some dragons. Or ... challange Nogrod to a Duel!! (just kidding, lol)

Sleepy: Great game, man! Thanks for the interesting deaths an' all!

Nogrod

10-08-2006, 04:44 PM

Hmmm, that's a bit disconserting there, Lommy. Maybe I should swear more often, or heft some large boulders, or kill some dragons. Or ... challange Nogrod to a Duel!! (just kidding, lol) :D
With paper towels hopefully, or with cotton bolls... :cool:

Rune Son of Bjarne

10-08-2006, 04:51 PM

Well I think the wolwes did a freaking great job. . . Boro yeah I was on to you, but I was never convinced.

Eonwe was good as well, I felt uneasy about him, but that was it. Never have I been so clueless about a game. . .

Now Volo died on day one, but really that is just unlucky. A bad wolf (me) is the one constantly discovered on day 2, when people actually can analyse a bit.

Btw my artist was Leonard Cohen

Folwren

10-08-2006, 06:24 PM

Eonwe and Boro did a good job. Leastways, they fooled me. They defended me (both of them!) and I felt very strengthened by their encouragement. Not that it did me any good. I'll bet you two were laughing up your sleeves when Mac, Glirdan, and I all got killed on the same day!! :eek: Bah. ;)

Celuien, you had me convinced when you went fairly belistic about Glirdy being so inocent. I fairly wept when I saw your posts, but it was too late for me. I'd already voted, and I think time was up anyway. You can't imagine the torment I went through when I first realized he was innocent, then learned he was hunter, then learned that I was his victim.

It bothered me that Lommy accused me for my first post. That was disturbing and in the long run, got me killed. You did a good job, otherwise. :D

Great job, Sleepy. I'm liking your last post a lot!!

Good job, everyone else! It was fun, while I lasted. I enjoy being an innocent bystander, good only for defending myself so furiously.

-- Folwren

Celuien

10-08-2006, 06:57 PM

Celuien, you had me convinced when you went fairly belistic about Glirdy being so inocent. I fairly wept when I saw your posts, but it was too late for me. I'd already voted, and I think time was up anyway. You can't imagine the torment I went through when I first realized he was innocent, then learned he was hunter, then learned that I was his victim.

I did go a little off the deep end. It was so frustrating to see the bandwagon taking off when I knew he was innocent. I only hope that if I'm ever the Seer that I'll be able to stay a little calmer.

My artist was Arturo Toscanini, whose picture is my current avatar. :D

I have Glirdan's and my correspondence, but there isn't much to it since we only had two nights to chat. The summary is that:

1) We were going to keep a distance from each other in the village
2) We discussed Noggie (Glirdy's original pick instead of Folwren) and ruled that he was not a wolf, after which Glirdan decided to hunt Folwren because he thought that her vote for Volo was too safe to be non-suspicious.

Diamond18

10-08-2006, 07:00 PM

Di I feel really sorry about. She was just gearing up and had received seerness and then was killed right out. She even made the right guess as a seer but had no chance to actually come forwards with it! That must have been frustrating, not the least when she was reading us trying to come up with her "seer-hints" after her death!

Yes, it was frustrating. I think it may have shaved a few years off my life.

I'm over it now, since enough time has passed and Lommy fixed things up before they could completely derail. But I was pretty incoherent with dismay when I was killed. The fact that I sacrificed a couple hours of much needed sleep to write up an eviscerating Boro-analysis (which was really hard because Boro is hard to pin down) and never got to post it, had a lot to do with that.

Oh well, I've always wanted to be a seer and for the few hours I thought I had a wolf kill in my grasp were the best Werewolf moments of my career thus far. So I'm glad I was the Mytho, even with all the stress. I felt like I'd hit double gold, first picking Lommy and becoming the gifted I most wanted to be, and then dreaming of a wolf.

I've a question for Boro and Volo. That list Volo wrote up at the end of Day 1, was that all Volo's doing or did Boro suggest doing it? Because I hit heavily upon that list and Boro's analysis of it in my BoroAnalysis, pointing out that Volo was behaving similarly to Boro as a wolf and therefore it showed they were teammates. I honestly had no idea whether this was true or not, but I knew Boro was a wolf so anything I could use against him was fair game.

The reason I dreamed of Boro was the Glirdan vote which caused a double lynch. That, and because I knew Boro was a crafty, bluffing wolf and wanted to be sure about him one way or the other.

Anyway, it's good to get that off my chest, heh.

It really is frustrating to see Glirdan get lynched as an innocent once again. Just wait, we'll pay for all this "crying wolf" one day by letting him live to the end and you just know he'll be a wolf that one time. ;)

Funny that everyone thought I dreamt of Folwren -- I would never have dreamt of her just because she was so obviously innocent feeling to me (and I don't have a history of her to think she's a bold bluffer). Anyway, kudos on the passionate self defense, Foley, it worked for some of us anyway.

Lommy Strikes Again! You were an awesome seer. And you really put me out of my misery when you revealed yourself and put an end to all the misleading analysis of my very Ordinary posts. (Since I only became the Seer on Night 3, the same night I died).

Eonwe, I didn't suspect. Even when I knew Boro was a wolf. It was really just process of elimination that got him in the end. Oh, and about my comment re: your past lynching. Weren't you in a game recently where we were all primed and ready to lynch you, but then you pulled out of the game? Or am I thinking of a different player? Guh. I've played too much werewolf, it's running together in my mind. :confused:

I figured out that Celuien was the Ranger or the Seer by the end of Day 2. However, at that point I had already sent my pick of Lommy in to Sleepy (the board unfortunately ate his reply to me telling me the result of my pick and I didn't find out until hours later over MSN). So for a little while I was thinking, "Darn, should have picked Celuien." I of course thought that Celuien would die on Night 3.

Anyway, to everyon else, I had fun playing with you and trying to figure out who your bands were. :)