What other fantasy books do YOU read? [Archive] - Page 4

Galadriel

10-13-2010, 11:55 AM

Robin Hobb - she, as Nerwen says - is definitely worth reading, if you ask me. Not as "deep" as Tolkien or Le Guin (well not maybe a good comparison if you've never read anything by her :D) but complex, enjoyable and deeply human. Hobb is, I think, one of the best storytellers whose books I've read both inside and outside the fantasy genre. The story just basically reads itself and you can't help but just live with the characters. If someone out there is thinking about reading anything by her, I suggest starting with the Farseer Series because they are probably the best and they sort of start out the whole thing. :)

Sounds promising. Maybe I'll give her a shot after I finish school (and a load of other books on my reading list!) in a few months.

Thinlómien

10-14-2010, 12:59 PM

Oddwen

10-14-2010, 09:02 PM

PS. For all Geroge R.R. Martin fans and everybody interested in a new fantasy TV series, HBO has realeased the first two teaser trailers for A Game of Thrones. This (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAZzCFPcLoo)one looks really cool and has Sean Bean, although it's sadly really short.

Plus, GRRM claims to be five chapters away from the end of Dances with Dragons, the book he's been working on for ten plus years.

Thinlómien

10-19-2010, 02:12 PM

Plus, GRRM claims to be five chapters away from the end of Dances with Dragons, the book he's been working on for ten plus years.So it will take him at least a few more years to finish it, right? :rolleyes:;)

Aganzir

10-20-2010, 04:23 AM

I would probably like LeGuin better as a writer if I had not met her as a person. Alas, I can say the same for a number of others, too... *sigh*
Poor Ibrin, most of would be happy to meet our favourite writers in person! ;):p

I think Robin Hobb is a very good read, and like Lommy said The Farseer trilogy is probably the best place to start. It's imaginative and good, in the later books it gets both more mature (dealing with equality & other current issues) and less inventive (it might be just me, though - I find dragons awfully dull).

I've read the Game of Thrones by George R.R. Martin and couldn't really see what's so special about it. The characters are way too simple and superficial to my liking, so I never bothered to check out the rest of them. I might do it some day though.

I'm currently rereading the Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice. They're both better (there are nuances I didn't catch when I was 13)) and worse (illogical stuff, the writer ignores things I consider relevant for the plot - she's not nearly so bad as a certain Stephenie Meyer though ;)) than I remembered. Anyway I like me some wonderfully androgynous badass vampires.

Galadriel

10-20-2010, 04:34 AM

Plus, GRRM claims to be five chapters away from the end of Dances with Dragons, the book he's been working on for ten plus years.

Funny though, because I heard the release date of DWD is two years later. I hope he just finishes it quickly and gets it published so the readers don't have to die with impatience :p

Galadriel55

11-16-2010, 04:56 PM

I've read quite a few fiction books (half of which I don't remember), but nothing can match with Tolkien's works. It seems like he just summarised the universe into just a few volumes. No other author got close to doing that.

Galadriel

11-17-2010, 02:08 AM

Galadriel55

11-17-2010, 06:24 AM

Glad that someone finally agrees with me about Tolkien. People usually laugh or call me stupid when I say that LOTR is the best book ever written.

Galadriel

11-28-2010, 02:22 AM

Glad that someone finally agrees with me about Tolkien. People usually laugh or call me stupid when I say that LOTR is the best book ever written.

You misunderstand me. Tolkien is my favourite author, but I wouldn't call LotR the best book ever written. The reason it's my personal favourite is because of the fairy-tale feeling you get while reading it (though certainly there is no 'fairy-tale' ending!) and because of the beautiful and historically rich world Tolkien created. So yes, no author will ever come close to doing that, but there are people who write better than him. Examples? Victor Hugo, Leo Tolstoy, Mary Ann Evans, Charlotte Brontë etc.

Nerwen

11-28-2010, 02:47 AM

Galadriel55

11-28-2010, 01:46 PM

I was wrong to say that specifically about LOTR. I meant just Tolkien in general, but most peope that I know never heard that name, but they know LOTR from the movies. There are other authors whos books I enjoy very much - sometimes even more than Tolkien. They also go very deep and emotional, but they only show a few certain situations like that, whereas Tolkien has all kinds of sides and circumstances. If I were to choose one author that I like best, I'd name Tolkien, even though others are very good as well.

Galadriel

12-01-2010, 04:52 AM

I doubt there is a single "best book ever written". You can maybe talk about something being the best in a particular genre, but what criteria would determine what was the best ever?

Mind you, generally people really just mean a certain book is their favourite.

*coughing fit* Galadriel, not to jump on you, but is there any particular reason you can't call her George Eliot, like everyone else?

Sorry :p I just...dislike calling her by her 'male' name. I feel it's a shame she's mostly known as 'George Eliot' instead of her real name. So yes, that is my 'particular' reason. But what's so bad about calling her Mary Ann Evans? It's just her name :(

Galadriel

12-01-2010, 04:54 AM

Galadriel55

12-01-2010, 06:21 AM

Do you not despise it when people are like 'Wait, LotR is a book??' :( It makes me want to cry.

yes, yes, and definitely YES!!!!!

Nerwen

12-01-2010, 06:28 AM

Sorry :p I just...dislike calling her by her 'male' name. I feel it's a shame she's mostly known as 'George Eliot' instead of her real name. So yes, that is my 'particular' reason. But what's so bad about calling her Mary Ann Evans? It's just her name :(

You could always have said "George Eliot (pen-name of Mary Ann Evans)" or "Mary Ann Evans (better known as George Eliot)". You see, when a person is best known by a pseudonym, the normal, and I think very sensible, practice is to refer to him or her by it, at least initially, to avoid confusion. After all, the potential for that is huge– so many people, both now and in the past, have become famous under assumed names. (Just think about it for a moment.)

So– that's what's so bad about it.

Nerwen

12-01-2010, 06:46 AM

I suppose I should have put an OT warning on that post, but actually it's pretty relevant to Middle-earth, what with all the aliases people like to employ there.

Seriously, I read a wiki article once where a certain Elf-Lady was referred to as "Nerwen" throughout (presumably on the grounds that it was her "real" name) and even I found it annoying.:D

Galadriel

12-02-2010, 12:20 AM

You could always have said "George Eliot (pen-name of Mary Ann Evans)" or "Mary Ann Evans (better known as George Eliot)". You see, when a person is best known by a pseudonym, the normal, and I think very sensible, practice is to refer to him or her by it, at least initially, to avoid confusion. After all, the potential for that is huge– so many people, both now and in the past, have become famous under assumed names. (Just think about it for a moment.)

So– that's what's so bad about it.

Ah. Very well then. I shall refrain from saying 'Mary Ann Evans' and just say 'George Eliot'.

Nerwen

12-02-2010, 11:23 AM

Do you not despise it when people are like 'Wait, LotR is a book??' :( It makes me want to cry.
I haven't experienced that, but I have run into a lot who mix up the movies and books quite badly, even after reading them. I think that's the way things tend to go, with adaptations in general: the version you encounter first becomes, for you, the "true" one, and it can be hard to accept that certain things weren't part of the original.

Galadriel

12-03-2010, 02:44 AM

I haven't experienced that, but I have run into a lot who mix up the movies and books quite badly, even after reading them. I think that's the way things tend to go, with adaptations in general: the version you encounter first becomes, for you, the "true" one, and it can be hard to accept that certain things weren't part of the original.

True. But for the life of me, the Bakshi film just didn't settle into my brain as a 'true' version :p
It's just that people like the films /so/ much, sometimes they have difficulty reading the book, because it's much less action-packed, and more like something that has to be savoured.

Blind Guardian

12-03-2010, 11:17 AM

I like Terry Goodkind's "Sword Of Truth" series and Tad Willam's "Otherland" and I might read Robert Jordan's "Wheel Of Time".

Galadriel

01-16-2011, 12:14 AM

I like Terry Goodkind's "Sword Of Truth" series and Tad Willam's "Otherland" and I might read Robert Jordan's "Wheel Of Time".

Is 'Sword of Truth' any good? I've been thinking about reading it.

Thinlómien

01-23-2011, 12:11 PM

I have almost finished Neil Gaiman's American Gods and I have to say the guy is genius.

Blind Guardian

01-23-2011, 01:46 PM

Is 'Sword of Truth' any good? I've been thinking about reading it.

I think it was great, and I'm on the seventh book now :) GO READ IT!

Oddwen

01-23-2011, 08:27 PM

I think it was great, and I'm on the seventh book now :) GO READ IT!

While I, on the other hand, couldn't choke my way through the second book.

Recently I read two and a half books of Mercedes Lackey's "500 Kingdoms" books, twists off of old fairy tales. The twist? The progatonistas are all quirky, headstrong and always right! Ho ho! Also they were romance novels! I was TRICKED!

Galadriel55

01-26-2011, 06:25 PM

Galadriel

01-28-2011, 05:17 AM

I think it was great, and I'm on the seventh book now :) GO READ IT!

Lol oh really? Maybe I'll give it a shot :p By the way, has anyone read 'Politically Correct Bedtime Stories'? It's a spoof on all the fairytales like Cinderella and Snow White. I think it's hilarious (and so true!).

Galadriel

01-28-2011, 05:20 AM

I have almost finished Neil Gaiman's American Gods and I have to say the guy is genius.

You do? Then you MUST read 'Good Omens'. It's a collab between Gaiman and Pratchett.

Kitanna

06-18-2011, 01:16 PM

I read Games of Thrones by George R.R. Martin recently. At first I liked it...that quickly changed and I refused to stop reading it because I had come too far. I could go on for hours as to why I can't stand Martin or his work, but I'll stick to the fact the man has an interesting idea, but ruins it by having boring characters who are almost all the same in ambitions and personality. I really liked Ned Stark, but for those who have read well... I watched the first two episodes of the show and found it as boring as the book.

So to cleanse my literary palette by reading copious amounts of Terry Pratchett. I got into a few books because of Downs recommendations, but lately I've pretty much solely been living on the Disc. I must thank this site for pointing me in that directions because my life is greatly enhanced with Rincewind, Vimes, and Vetinari in it.

Nogrod

06-18-2011, 02:09 PM

Funny to be about on the exact opposite opinion with Kit.

I have only now realised that I have been a waay too busy with all my work that it takes a major operation and the following sick-leave for me to have time to read books again. But I have enjoyed Mr. Martin's A Game of Thrones. Although I do agree with Kit in that many of the main characters seem to have more or less one sided minds in sharing similar ambitions. But I do like it nevertheless.

Terry Pratchett and his Discworld I have found quite yawning reading. It has all the things that could make very fun reading but somehow I'm not impressed (after reading two books years ago). I mean it's like a joke that has gotten way too long. They're kind of witty and hilarious, but then again I do find them failing to be anything else. But surely I can be misguided in here as I have only read the two first ones... from what, fifty? :rolleyes:

PS. A reason to love George R. Martin: he is able to kill off his main characters every once in a while thus making the books much more "realistic" and kind of breaking the phantasy genre where every well intending hero against his own will will prevail in the end (or if he dies a martyr his cause will prevail). I just love it how he makes fool of me the reader and reminds me that there are tales much more interesting than fairy-tales...

Pitchwife

06-19-2011, 12:20 PM

I sort of see where you're coming from about Pratchett, Nog; he's a bit of an acquired taste, but I've found he gets better with age (as long as he still manages to battle Alzheimer's, at least:(). You might like to try The Wee Free Men and A Hat Full of Sky, if you haven't yet - there's a poet's heart beating in these. If you like them, anything else with Granny Weatherwax in it - that woman rocks!

Nogrod

06-19-2011, 12:52 PM

You might like to try The Wee Free Men and A Hat Full of Sky, if you haven't yet - there's a poet's heart beating in these. If you like them, anything else with Granny Weatherwax in it - that woman rocks!Thanks for the hint. As this might turn out the "summer of reading" after a long time, I might actually try to get a hold of those to see if my mind changes...

Kitanna

06-19-2011, 01:27 PM

Thanks for the hint. As this might turn out the "summer of reading" after a long time, I might actually try to get a hold of those to see if my mind changes...
I really didn't like him much at first. I felt like I had been dropped into an inside joke, but I read one of the books regarding the city watch and came to understand things better. I think becoming a fan of Pratchett's depends on what you end up reading first. There are a lot and some books aren't great, but there are others that are. He can be hit or miss for a lot of people so I get why some find him boring to read.

A reason to love George R. Martin: he is able to kill off his main characters every once in a while thus making the books much more "realistic" and kind of breaking the phantasy genre where every well intending hero against his own will will prevail in the end (or if he dies a martyr his cause will prevail). I just love it how he makes fool of me the reader and reminds me that there are tales much more interesting than fairy-tales...
I went into reading Game of Thrones knowing this from my boyfriend and while that's a great way to tell a story I still don't think he does it well. I feel like Martin has a lot of missed opportunities. Characters like Ned and Robert were good, but I felt everyone else, even the young girls, had that same sort of middle-aged man mindset and none were written to reflect age or gender. My boyfriend and my friend has told me what else happens and it's a captivating story, but I don't care for his writing style at all. Sometimes I think I just read way too much into these things. :rolleyes:

Galadriel

06-24-2011, 09:04 AM

I went into reading Game of Thrones knowing this from my boyfriend and while that's a great way to tell a story I still don't think he does it well. I feel like Martin has a lot of missed opportunities. Characters like Ned and Robert were good, but I felt everyone else, even the young girls, had that same sort of middle-aged man mindset and none were written to reflect age or gender. My boyfriend and my friend has told me what else happens and it's a captivating story, but I don't care for his writing style at all. Sometimes I think I just read way too much into these things.

Middle-ages man mindset? I really don't think so. Cersei, Catelyn, Sansa, etc. very much behaved their own age and gender. Of course, they're very, very different, and Sansa seemed a bit too delusional in the first couple of books, but other than that I didn't see a problem with Martin's characterisation.

If there's one complaint I have about the series, it's his pessimism about humanity. He portrays everyone as evil or selfish, with no regard for anyone but themselves and/or a couple of others. The only character I thought was free form evil was Brienne. I mean, sure, you get sick of people being black and white, but there is some good in this world, and that's a fact. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE the fact that he hasn't done the typical 'good vs evil' cliché, and I think that most of his characters are well thought-out, but give these guys a break, man. At least a few characters should be leaning towards their good side.

Thinlómien

06-27-2011, 06:04 AM

The only character I thought was free form evil was Brienne.Oh but there are lots of others (spoiler if you don't want to hear who are good guys) at least Ned, Bran, Jon, Samwell, Old Bear, Maester Aemon, Hodor, Meera, Jojen and Davos off the top of my head.

I personally enjoy Martin a lot (up to the point of recently being rather obsessed), and I have to disagree with Kit about the characters - they may start as slightly cardboardy, but they get so much better during the series: in fact so good that it depresses me as an aspiring writer. I really like the slowly revealed depth of characters like Jaime Lannister or Sansa Stark.

Galadriel

07-01-2011, 09:58 AM

Galadriel

07-01-2011, 10:00 AM

Oh but there are lots of others (spoiler if you don't want to hear who are good guys) at least Ned, Bran, Jon, Samwell, Old Bear, Maester Aemon, Hodor, Meera, Jojen and Davos off the top of my head.

I really like the slowly revealed depth of characters like Jaime Lannister or Sansa Stark.

Oh, but aside from Ned, I didn't find any of them to be 'free' of evil :rolleyes:

And I absolutely LOVE the way Jaime turned out!

Thinlómien

07-01-2011, 04:08 PM

I just finished reading a book called Polgara the Sorceress (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polgara_the_Sorceress). It is...OK, I guess. Nothing brilliant. I like the philosophy behind the fiction, though.

*I don't know how that book got into my hands. Aparantly it's 12th in a series.:eek:*Ahaha, I liked that book as a kid, Polgara was like my favourite character anywhere ever, or something. It makes a lot more sens though if you read the David Eddings' series it's sort of providing background info for. That being said, I haven't read the book in at least 10 years and I really have to reread now!

You do? Then you MUST read 'Good Omens'. It's a collab between Gaiman and Pratchett.If you say so - however, I have to say that while I love Gaiman, I find Pratchett mostly annoying.

Oh, but aside from Ned, I didn't find any of them to be 'free' of evil :rolleyes:

And I absolutely LOVE the way Jaime turned out!But are real people "free of evil" either? ;) And as for Jaime's character development (let's not spoil anybody on this thread) it's awesome. He's surely one of my favourite characters.

LadyBrooke

07-01-2011, 05:47 PM

I finally started on Harry Potter. Not because of the films, but because I've wanted to get into the fandom for a long time, but I kept getting put off by the first few lines in 'The Philosopher's Stone' and by people telling me it was a great work of art :rolleyes: I'm around four hundred pages into the fourth book now, and I must say, I'm enjoying it much more than I thought I would. Still, I can't really call myself a 'fan' yet, since I haven't exactly fallen in love with the series the way I did with Lord of the Rings. Oh well, we'll see how it all turns out after I've finished all seven! :D

Harry Potter was really were I started in fantasy...I started reading it in the 5th grade, and fell in love with the first 5 books. When the sixth book came out I went to the midnight release party, which was fun. I fell out of love with the 6th and 7th books though, as I couldn't stand some of the romances...besides, I fell in love with Tolkien in the 7th grade, and never quite went back to HP, though I still read fanfic...

As far as what other fantasy books I read - I'm willing to give most things at least a try...I have The Name of the Wind, Dresdan Files, and a few others waiting to be read. I read a lot of older fantasy too, like George MacDonald's The Princess and the Goblin, and then folklore, mythology, ect...

I tried to reread Narnia in the 7th grade, and hated it...too many religious overtones for me.

Galadriel55

07-04-2011, 07:57 PM

@ My Twin Sister: You'll like HP, at least on the first read. It's definitely captvating. Personally, I think that series is addictive because of the tangled intrigue/connections, but it lacks depth. I put off reading it until last year for those very reasons - to prove myself first wrong, and then right again. Then HP also has some plot-based faults, but I won't give spoilers.

This really depends on the reader, because I know many HP fans of various ages. And anyways, I think it is worth reading just to know and to compare, if you get my meaning.

@ Lommy: I was thinking I'm the only one here who read that book. It is rather nice, though, as I said, not brilliant IMO. I definitely agree that reading the entire series would help with the background knowledge (I can talk, I didn't read it... :p). Can't say that Polgara is my favourite, especially when it came to the Ontrose part (on my last reread I skipped that whole section). What I liked most was the idea of "good" and "evil" being nothing more than perspective names given to two Purposes. Rather than "I am good and my enemies are bad" it's "some of those who oppose me are doing wrong, so I have to fix that and do right".

@ LadyB: I read Narnia in Grade 5, and at first I was addicted but then I cooled down, because it was too "simple". However, now that I'm a bit older and wiser (...or at least older :p) I appreciate the simplicity more...

McCaber

07-05-2011, 01:44 AM

I have almost finished Neil Gaiman's American Gods and I have to say the guy is genius.

If you haven't read Sandman yet, you need to. The single best book I've ever read. If you have, Anansi Boys is set in the American Gods universe and I enjoyed it even better than the first one.

Thinlómien

07-05-2011, 04:43 AM

If you haven't read Sandman yet, you need to. The single best book I've ever read. If you have, Anansi Boys is set in the American Gods universe and I enjoyed it even better than the first one.Nice to see you around Cabbie! And I'll have a look at Sandman (been meaning to, for ages) and borrow Anansi Boys from Aganzir. ;)

LadyBrooke

07-06-2011, 10:01 AM

@ LadyB: I read Narnia in Grade 5, and at first I was addicted but then I cooled down, because it was too "simple". However, now that I'm a bit older and wiser (...or at least older :p) I appreciate the simplicity more...

If it was just the simplicity of it, I'd still read it and like it, most likely...I, after all, still read Winnie the Pooh and Dr. Suess just for the fun of it at times, as well as Babysitters Club, Nancy Drew, ect... It's more the religious aspects of it that annoy me...if I want religion, I'll read the Bible again. ;)

Haramu

07-09-2011, 02:58 PM

Reading and Writing my own Fantasy Book :rolleyes:
Should be good enough for me and maybe a few readers as well.

Pitchwife

07-09-2011, 03:41 PM

What I liked most was the idea of "good" and "evil" being nothing more than perspective names given to two Purposes.
There's been a discussion (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=15505)of that on the Downs, if you're interested.

Galadriel

07-10-2011, 11:36 AM

If it was just the simplicity of it, I'd still read it and like it, most likely...I, after all, still read Winnie the Pooh and Dr. Suess just for the fun of it at times, as well as Babysitters Club, Nancy Drew, ect... It's more the religious aspects of it that annoy me...if I want religion, I'll read the Bible again.

Lol, I still read 'The Tale of Peter Rabbit' :D Yes, I agree, the religious aspects were a turn-off for me. Tolkien's works have a religious base too, but it's less obvious in my opinion.

A lot of people have read the Bible...anyone around here read the Upanishads? :p

Galadriel

07-10-2011, 11:44 AM

@ My Twin Sister: You'll like HP, at least on the first read. It's definitely captvating. Personally, I think that series is addictive because of the tangled intrigue/connections, but it lacks depth. I put off reading it until last year for those very reasons - to prove myself first wrong, and then right again. Then HP also has some plot-based faults, but I won't give spoilers.

This really depends on the reader, because I know many HP fans of various ages. And anyways, I think it is worth reading just to know and to compare, if you get my meaning.

I love the way you call me your twin sister (UNLESS you are referring somehow to Nerwen :D Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed the third and fourth books. The first two were a bit childish, and the fifth one is dragging more than it should. For me, it doesn't exactly lack character depth, but it lacks depth in theme and creativity. Sure, Rowling describes Hogwarts and some magical villages really well, but there's very little beyond that. I like a larger world to play around with, but that's my personal preference.

LadyBrooke: I agree. IMO romance kills a book, unless it's in small amounts. I think that is one of the (big) reasons I loved LotR so much. When I reached the end I was like "Yes, yes, yes! Such little romance!" Of course, Jackson simply had to put an unnecessary amount of it in the movies. Poor, dear Glorfindel :Merisu:

Thinlómien: Well, not exactly 'free' of evil, but having much more of a good side to them. God, I need to start being more specific...

Galadriel55

07-10-2011, 12:08 PM

I love the way you call me your twin sister (UNLESS you are referring somehow to Nerwen :D

No, I'm referring to you. And I believe you were the one that first called me that in reply to one of my first posts! (This (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=641251&postcount=485)one, to be percise... took me ages to find! :p I was such an idiot back then!!!)

Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed the third and fourth books. The first two were a bit childish, and the fifth one is dragging more than it should. For me, it doesn't exactly lack character depth, but it lacks depth in theme and creativity. Sure, Rowling describes Hogwarts and some magical villages really well, but there's very little beyond that. I like a larger world to play around with, but that's my personal preference.

Ditto. I also think that she could really use some better vocabulary. Whenever I think of HP I think of "reckon" - she repeats that word waaay too often. I know she wants to imitate British slang, but it just gets on my nerves. As for the 5th book - I only read the 6th one to find out what Harry's OWL results were. I didn't see any other point in reading on.

LadyBrooke

07-10-2011, 02:19 PM

A lot of people have read the Bible...anyone around here read the Upanishads?

Not yet...it's a goal in life, I suppose. I need to read it, the Quran, at least one of the Buddhist texts, ect. Personally, I believe an understanding of all religions is important...

I have, however, read portions of the Epic of Gilgamesh for an essay. It was weird...but I liked it. :p I like ancient literature...I read the entire Iliad and Odyssey for fun, when we had to read a portion for school...The college I'm going to offers Ancient Greek and Latin, but I doubt I'll have time to take them. :( So, I guess my knowledge will be limited to what I can learn on my own...

Yes, I thoroughly enjoyed the third and fourth books. The first two were a bit childish, and the fifth one is dragging more than it should. For me, it doesn't exactly lack character depth, but it lacks depth in theme and creativity. Sure, Rowling describes Hogwarts and some magical villages really well, but there's very little beyond that. I like a larger world to play around with, but that's my personal preference.

Personally, I hated the way it seemed that Slytherin automatically meant you were evil, with a few exceptions (and those weren't presented well either). What's wrong with ambition? And really, why would three people form a school with some evil guy? I liked parts of the fifth one, but I can't stand how Molly Weasley is presented as some kind of good person by Rowling. I mean, I'm not the largest fan of Sirius, but going into somebody's house and insulting them...her insults to him were worse then Snape's for crying out loud. And the way she jokes about love potions...I don't think that many of the good characters, like Molly and Ginny, were really the saints they're presented as by Rowling. I loved book 3 and 4 though...of course, Remus and Fleur are my favorite characters so....

I agree. IMO romance kills a book, unless it's in small amounts. I think that is one of the (big) reasons I loved LotR so much. When I reached the end I was like "Yes, yes, yes! Such little romance!" Of course, Jackson simply had to put an unnecessary amount of it in the movies. Poor, dear Glorfindel
Romance has it's place, but it's not in a fantasy book set at a school, imo. And if the romances had made sense, I might have not had as large problem...but they didn't, with the exception of one or two, and I had the urge to throw the book at the wall when Hermione and Ron got together or Remus and Tonks...they just don't seem like they're suited for each other (and please, any one who thinks they do, don't bring up the anvil sized hints. They were there, but Ron also insults Hermione in every book, is lazy and unmotivated, and makes fun of Hermione's beliefs.) I completely agree about LotR, though...and why did PJ have to do that? Why?

Ditto. I also think that she could really use some better vocabulary. Whenever I think of HP I think of "reckon" - she repeats that word waaay too often. I know she wants to imitate British slang, but it just gets on my nerves. As for the 5th book - I only read the 6th one to find out what Harry's OWL results were. I didn't see any other point in reading on.

Better then me...I got 20 pages into book 7, realized I hated it, and put it down, in spite of wanting to know what would happen. I just couldn't stand the writing style. So, I only finished it when I found MST of it...:D

Alfirin

07-10-2011, 05:24 PM

Ditto. I also think that she could really use some better vocabulary. Whenever I think of HP I think of "reckon" - she repeats that word waaay too often. I know she wants to imitate British slang, but it just gets on my nerves. As for the 5th book - I only read the 6th one to find out what Harry's OWL results were. I didn't see any other point in reading on.

Correct choice of words can make or break a book. One of the main reasons I absoulely hated Eric Rücker Eddison's Worm Ouroborous books (which some people regard so hightly they put them and Tolkein on equal fantasy footing, or even say Eddison is infinitely superior). was the language. In an effort to try and make the story as "old time epic" as possible, Edding's chose to usually go with extremely archaic language ("spake' instead of speaks, "crokindrell" instead of "crocodile" etc.) at the beginning this seemed to me okay, but as the book wore on, the choices of language and grammar just became wearying. Olde tyme spelling is fine for a period appropriate piece of literature (Oroborous was written in the 1920's so the "it was the way they talked then" argument doesn't really work here) but after a few hundred pages it get's tiresome. It's rather had to get into a book if you have to have a dictionary next to you and look up every other word. Eddison's work might have been good if it was being read to you, a la a saga or a play (in fact the one thing I came away from the book with was that it would probably make a very good tv series) but read on the printed page, it just got frustrating. I also did not like the end of the story, where the heros discover that not only have all the villians escaped but escaped more or less unharmed (i.e. all thier efforts and sacrafices were basically for nothing) and jump for joy becuse it means they can go through the whole palaver of the book all over again (minus the fairly large number of individuals who died the first time round trying to let the heroes win.). I have no problem dealing with things like odd language, but only when the story is worth it, and in my opinion, in Ourobrous, it isn't
I sort of feel the same way about David Lindsay's A Voyage to Arcturus also often considered a classic. In this case, after having read it through three times, I kept getting the impression that to understand it would require a couple years of modern philisopy, in particular Wittgenstein, and even then you'd have to 100% agree with those philosophers for the book to be meaningful.

Galadriel

07-11-2011, 04:41 AM

No, I'm referring to you. And I believe you were the one that first called me that in reply to one of my first posts! (This (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=641251&postcount=485)one, to be percise... took me ages to find! I was such an idiot back then!!!)

Ditto. I also think that she could really use some better vocabulary. Whenever I think of HP I think of "reckon" - she repeats that word waaay too often. I know she wants to imitate British slang, but it just gets on my nerves. As for the 5th book - I only read the 6th one to find out what Harry's OWL results were. I didn't see any other point in reading on.

Did I? I don't remember, forgive me. I shall take a look at that post :p And you never struck me as an idiot, my dear. Quite the contrary.

I thought the vocabulary in the narrative was fine. The truly awful bits were the dialogue. Yes, 'reckon' does seem to be her favourite word! She does a really poor imitation of British slang, sadly. They don't speak that badly ;) I'm going to give the sixth and seventh books a go, but only because my mother says they were better than the rest (and because my friends would kill me if I didn't read them). *Sigh* It's irritating how they gasp and gawk when I say I haven't read Harry Potter.

PS - Can anyone tell me how to quote different bits of a paragraph at a time? I've no idea how :(

Galadriel

07-11-2011, 04:46 AM

[QUOTE=LadyBrooke;658559]Personally, I hated the way it seemed that Slytherin automatically meant you were evil, with a few exceptions (and those weren't presented well either). What's wrong with ambition? And really, why would three people form a school with some evil guy?/QUOTE]

I concur, that was the part that seemed the most biased to me. I refuse to believe that so many students would be cheats and sneaks. One quarter of a school? Are you kidding me? All of them stuffed into the same house? That's a recipe for disaster, if you ask me. Yes, it seemed a bit foolish of those people to form a school with someone like that. Also, Rowling really makes it seem like Harry, Ron and Hermione are the only kids in the school with common sense.

LadyBrooke

07-11-2011, 05:56 AM

I concur, that was the part that seemed the most biased to me. I refuse to believe that so many students would be cheats and sneaks. One quarter of a school? Are you kidding me? All of them stuffed into the same house? That's a recipe for disaster, if you ask me. Yes, it seemed a bit foolish of those people to form a school with someone like that.
Well, I can believe that many people can be cheats, but believe me, it wouldn't be limited to one house. :p In fact, Slytherin seems like it'd also have a high portion of students who would never cheat, just because ambition is not a synonym with evil, and there are ambitious people who don't...in my experience, it was the lazy, unmotivated people who tried to cheat on me the most. It would be a disaster to have one house that was evil. For one thing, if Slytherin is so evil, then how come so many of them were trusted, like Lucius Malfoy (not saying he deserved to be trusted by Fudge...but he was.)

Also, Rowling really makes it seem like Harry, Ron and Hermione are the only kids in the school with common sense.
Yeah....and the rest of the school are mindless followers and gossipers (Hufflepuff, Justin), crybabies and traitors (Ravenclaw), or evil (Slytherin)...and only exposure and friendship with Harry and co can redeem somebody. It's stupid....and I'd end up strangling somebody, likely Ron.

I'm going to give the sixth and seventh books a go, but only because my mother says they were better than the rest (and because my friends would kill me if I didn't read them). *Sigh* It's irritating how they gasp and gawk when I say I haven't read Harry Potter.
My apologies and sympathy for how your friends act...mine are the same way about Twilight. It is rather annoying, isn't it?

PS - Can anyone tell me how to quote different bits of a paragraph at a time? I've no idea how :(

Err, copy or cut and paste, or use the enter and delete keys, to get the individual sections you want to reply to into different spots, separated by a line. Then put the [ quote ] and [ /quote ] at the beginning and end of each one. That's a really dumb explanation, that probably makes no sense.....

Galadriel

07-11-2011, 06:50 AM

[QUOTE=LadyBrooke;658588]Well, I can believe that many people can be cheats, but believe me, it wouldn't be limited to one house. In fact, Slytherin seems like it'd also have a high portion of students who would never cheat, just because ambition is not a synonym with evil, and there are ambitious people who don't...in my experience, it was the lazy, unmotivated people who tried to cheat on me the most. It would be a disaster to have one house that was evil. For one thing, if Slytherin is so evil, then how come so many of them were trusted, like Lucius Malfoy (not saying he deserved to be trusted by Fudge...but he was.)

I shall try your suggestion right now :p

Call me gullible, but I can't believe that around fifty people in one grade would join with dark forces, murder and torture. They're kids, at the end of the day. You are right, it is usually the lazy people who are corrupt and surly. And you are right about Lucius.

Yeah....and the rest of the school are mindless followers and gossipers (Hufflepuff, Justin), crybabies and traitors (Ravenclaw), or evil (Slytherin)...and only exposure and friendship with Harry and co can redeem somebody. It's stupid....and I'd end up strangling somebody, likely Ron.

Haven't gotten to some of those parts yet, but I agree about Harry.

My apologies and sympathy for how your friends act...mine are the same way about Twilight. It is rather annoying, isn't it?

Twilight is still okay. I have such a vehement dislike towards it that most people don't even utter that word in my presence. But since I was neutral towards Potter, my friends thought they could persuade me to read it. Sadly, I know no one who is interested in Lord of the Rings. One of my friends is reading it now, at my suggestion, but I don't think she's going to get quite as obsessed with it as I am :p

PS - Wohoo, it worked!

Pitchwife

07-11-2011, 11:03 AM

I also did not like the end of the story, where the heros discover that not only have all the villians escaped but escaped more or less unharmed (i.e. all thier efforts and sacrafices were basically for nothing) and jump for joy becuse it means they can go through the whole palaver of the book all over again
Sorry, Alfirin, but I think you missed the point - the villains didn't escape, they were destroyed and then resurrected by the Gods at the request of the heroes, who, being victorious, found that their existence lacked purpose without villains to fight. It's almost a satire on heroism as an end in itself, if only Eddison didn't seem to endorse that absurd heroism - allegedly he was a big fan of Nietzsche, and the end seems to represent his version of the myth of Eternal Return (cf the book's title!).

Tolkien knew The Worm Ouroboros, and I think LotR can to some extent be read as a critique of Eddisonian heroism, starring a reluctant hero who is driven to heroism by fate and love for his home rather than chosing it as a way of life; and cf also Faramir's words in Ithilien: "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend".

- That said, I quite like TWO for its vivid descriptions and some unforgettable characters on the villains' side (Gro!); but I'll gladly admit it comes nowhere close to Tolkien in depth.

Alfirin

07-11-2011, 12:26 PM

Sorry, Alfirin, but I think you missed the point - the villains didn't escape, they were destroyed and then resurrected by the Gods at the request of the heroes, who, being victorious, found that their existence lacked purpose without villains to fight. It's almost a satire on heroism as an end in itself, if only Eddison didn't seem to endorse that absurd heroism - allegedly he was a big fan of Nietzsche, and the end seems to represent his version of the myth of Eternal Return (cf the book's title!).

Tolkien knew The Worm Ouroboros, and I think LotR can to some extent be read as a critique of Eddisonian heroism, starring a reluctant hero who is driven to heroism by fate and love for his home rather than chosing it as a way of life; and cf also Faramir's words in Ithilien: "I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend".

- That said, I quite like TWO for its vivid descriptions and some unforgettable characters on the villains' side (Gro!); but I'll gladly admit it comes nowhere close to Tolkien in depth.

Yeah, you're right. In my defense It's really been a long long time since I read the book, and my memory is far from perfect. I sort of remembered that things were as you said, but that ending seemed so momumentally absurd to me that I was sure I had remember it wrong. I stand corrected on my error (though that doesn't meant I suddenly like the book). I understand that on a certain level, the "life is a chess game" concept may have some appeal to some, but taking it to the level of, at the end of the game, putting all the same pieces back on the board and starting the game all over again leaves me flat. For the hero to desire to seek new challanges I understand, for him to desire to seek the exact same challenge as soon as he has won does not.

Durelin

07-11-2011, 12:43 PM

Currently reading the Deverry series by Katharine Kerr (first book is Daggerspell. (Well re-reading so far...)

I still like the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan a lot, though I am several books behind now and need to re-read...

I re-read constantly a series of 'young adult' Arthurian fantasy by Gerald Morris. He recently finished the series. Really excellent and fun.

I also like the Redwall series a lot, though I agree it can be repetitive (he's written so many of them it's no surprise, and they all really stand on their own)...Brian Jacques is very missed.

My favorite book of all time if I have to give one is Till We Have Faces by C.S. Lewis, who of course has been mentioned, but I think mostly with the Narnia series...

Pitchwife

07-11-2011, 02:41 PM

I understand that on a certain level, the "life is a chess game" concept may have some appeal to some, but taking it to the level of, at the end of the game, putting all the same pieces back on the board and starting the game all over again leaves me flat.
Quite understandable. It's sort of interesting as a twist of convention, but that's it. What I liked about TWO wasn't the plot but, as I said above, the characters and, horribile dictu, the writing.

I've got to add a disclaimer here: I haven't yet read TWO in the original, only in two German translations, one of which was in more or less modern literary German while the other tried to reproduce Eddison's artificial archaism, but of these two I preferred the latter. I got the impression that E. uses archaism successfully to create a certain atmosphere both lofty and remote - e.g. calling a crocodile a crokindrell takes us back to a time where a crocodile wasn't to be seen in every zoo and made into handbags, but a mythical beast of the same order as a manticore or a hippogryff. But I withhold final judgment of his prose until I've read him in his own language (praise be to Project Gutenberg!).

One thing I dislike about the book is how he uses Demon, Goblin, Imp etc. as mere names for various humanoid races which don't seem to differ that much. When I hear Demon I expect to see a being of the under- or otherworld, not just a handsome heroic humanoid with decorative horns slapped on.

Alfirin

07-11-2011, 05:40 PM

Quite understandable. It's sort of interesting as a twist of convention, but that's it. What I liked about TWO wasn't the plot but, as I said above, the characters and, horribile dictu, the writing.

I've got to add a disclaimer here: I haven't yet read TWO in the original, only in two German translations, one of which was in more or less modern literary German while the other tried to reproduce Eddison's artificial archaism, but of these two I preferred the latter. I got the impression that E. uses archaism successfully to create a certain atmosphere both lofty and remote - e.g. calling a crocodile a crokindrell takes us back to a time where a crocodile wasn't to be seen in every zoo and made into handbags, but a mythical beast of the same order as a manticore or a hippogryff. But I withhold final judgment of his prose until I've read him in his own language (praise be to Project Gutenberg!).

One thing I dislike about the book is how he uses Demon, Goblin, Imp etc. as mere names for various humanoid races which don't seem to differ that much. When I hear Demon I expect to see a being of the under- or otherworld, not just a handsome heroic humanoid with decorative horns slapped on.

I understand, it's sort of like the cringe I get everytime I see any anime (and there are a lot of them) that has a natural born creature that happens to be made of rock and decides to call it a Golem. Not every rock based creature is a Golem, just as not every monster that sucks blood is a vampire.
It's really silly, but when you talked about an archaic German version, I suddenly had images of a version written in the old Gothic blackletter type (actually depending on when the book was fist translated into German, a blackletter version may actually exist; a lot of German publishers were still using that typeface for books in the 1920's)

Galadriel55

07-24-2011, 04:10 PM

Personally, I hated the way it seemed that Slytherin automatically meant you were evil, with a few exceptions (and those weren't presented well either).

I heartily agree and add to that that for some reason almost all Slytherins look like trolls. In the 7th book Malfoy shows some, errr, loyalty, but then it doesn't really last...So fits your description perfectly. But I won't press that point to avoid spoilers.

...of course, Remus and Fleur are my favorite characters so....

*giggles* My personal favourite as a character is dear Belatrix.... :D

I thought the vocabulary in the narrative was fine. The truly awful bits were the dialogue. Yes, 'reckon' does seem to be her favourite word! She does a really poor imitation of British slang, sadly. They don't speak that badly

I'm quite sure that the anglophones across the pond use more colourful words than "reckon" and "bloke" (the two most common words there, IMO)!

It's irritating how they gasp and gawk when I say I haven't read Harry Potter.

I sympathise. They did it to me before I read it. And they still do when I say that I know many better books than HP. :rolleyes:

PS - Can anyone tell me how to quote different bits of a paragraph at a time? I've no idea how

You can copy/paste the bit you want to quote, hilight the text, and click on the "quote" icon on top of the post-box-writing-thingy. The computer will automatically quote it for you. Or, you can type [QUOTE ] (except without the space) when the quote starts and [/QUOTE ] (again, no spaces) when it ends. You can add a =name for it to say "originally posted by X" (like this: [Quote=X ]...[/QUOTE ]).

Edit: Ah, wait, LBrooke has already said that. I posted before I got to her post. Ooops!:o

Galadriel

07-25-2011, 06:20 AM

[QUOTE=Galadriel55;659103]*giggles* My personal favourite as a character is dear Belatrix....

Bellatrix? Why would that be? My personal favourites are Mad-Eye and Snape :D Harry is such a goody-two-shoes.

I sympathise. They did it to me before I read it. And they still do when I say that I know many better books than HP. :rolleyes:

This.

Galadriel55

07-25-2011, 07:44 AM

Bellatrix? Why would that be? My personal favourites are Mad-Eye and Snape :D Harry is such a goody-two-shoes.

I don't really like Snape after some revelations in the 7th book. And MadEye is nice, but... For some weird reason, if I had a choice to be any of the characters, I'd be Belatrix. (My true nature showing! Mwahahahaha! XD)

Oh, and yes, Harry is always good and right. He does wrong, but then he solves all and saves all and is such a brilliant little Boy Who Lived. :rolleyes:

Galadriel

07-26-2011, 03:12 AM

Oh, and yes, Harry is always good and right. He does wrong, but then he solves all and saves all and is such a brilliant little Boy Who Lived.

Amazingly, some people argue that that's why he makes such a good character :rolleyes:

Galadriel55

12-17-2011, 10:46 AM

Aganzir

12-17-2011, 12:44 PM

I just started reading A Game of Thrones, from the series of A Song of Ice and Fire, and I already love it!

A few pages into the first chapter Finlandmoot suddenly started to make sense... :D
Please don't tell me you believe that stuff about Jon Snow being a self-pitying twat. He isn't really so bad even though some people try to portray him in a bad light. ;)

I recently reread The Etched City (http://kjbishop.net/bib/tec/) by K.J. Bishop and if I had to name one book as my Favourite Ever, chances are good I'd pick this one. It tells the stories of a surgeon and a gunslinger who escape to the city of Ashamoil after a revolution gone awry. There's blood, mysteries, love, crime - and above all, Art. It is a truly beautiful, well-written and fascinating book.

Galadriel55

12-17-2011, 05:18 PM

Please don't tell me you believe that stuff about Jon Snow being a self-pitying twat. He isn't really so bad even though some people try to portray him in a bad light. ;)

Not me. He's probably my favourite character so far. :D

All I meant was that now I understand where all the references came from.

Aganzir

12-18-2011, 07:07 AM

Not me. He's probably my favourite character so far. :D

All I meant was that now I understand where all the references came from.
Fair enough. :D

Galadriel55

12-19-2011, 04:28 PM

Fair enough. :D

Can you (or anyone else who knows) just tell me, how in the names of all their seven gods does "Eddard" shorten to "Ned"? :confused:

Aganzir

12-20-2011, 08:05 PM

Can you (or anyone else who knows) just tell me, how in the names of all their seven gods does "Eddard" shorten to "Ned"? :confused:
It's about as logical as the English language. How does Richard shorten to Dick? :p

There might be some weird linguistic stuff behind it. Or then it's relevant for the plot and, at the end of the 7th book, the entire world is saved because of that little irrelevant thing. In other words, I don't know. ;)

Bêthberry

12-21-2011, 04:25 PM

Okay, I'm going to change the topic just slightly. :p

Has anyone else read Patrick Rothfuss? I've read The Name of the Wind and was quite entranced by it. There's travelling players with a wry, robust sense of the world, a school of magic, wizards, an orphan coming of age, strange mythology and legends, the spell of music, layers of narrative, a shrewd look at an heroic age--all well and tightly written--and very clear homage to Tolkien (without being derivative at all).

You can read an excerpt here if you're a wee bit curious: Chapter Eight (http://www.patrickrothfuss.com/content/book1ex.asp)

The sequel (and second book in a projected trilogy), The Wise Man's Fear, came out last March but I haven't had a chance to look at it yet.

Anyone interested?

Estelyn Telcontar

12-21-2011, 04:59 PM

Bb, I have both of those Rothfuss books waiting to be read! I'd heard so much good about them; they've been translated and published in Germany, so some of the recommendations came from friends here, some international. I bought the English books, as I always prefer reading the original language whenever possible. I will certainly let you know how I like them when I get the time to read!

Aganzir

12-22-2011, 06:09 PM

My friend Annina is very excited about them, and her copies are safe in my shelf while she's studying in the UK. I'm now rereading Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere (which I found awesome when I last read it back in... 2005 I think), but I could check out Rothfuss when I'm finished with Gaiman.

Galadriel

12-26-2011, 06:07 AM

Galadriel

12-26-2011, 06:11 AM

Not me. He's probably my favourite character so far. :D

All I meant was that now I understand where all the references came from.

My second-favourite. Number one is Tyrion Lannister :D

Galadriel55

12-26-2011, 09:43 AM

My second-favourite. Number one is Tyrion Lannister :D

I changed my mind after some more chapters. Jon is second. Arya is first. :D The Imp is annoying. But less so than Theon: he's Viserys all over, just on the other side of the world. :D

I really like GRRMartin's style of writing. Although it has LOTR written all over it, it feels like a cross between Tolkien and Rowling. It has more day-to-day details like Harry Potter, but doesn't sound modern, and the plot and characters are much more Tolkien than Rowling. The style of writing is his own though. It's not as "ancient" as Tolkien's, but it's definitely not Rowling's modern style. It's different from both authors. Somehow it has HP's addiction and LOTR's beauty.

There is only one thing that really buggs me, though. So many names are similar to Tolkien/Downs names. It gets me confused about the characters. I still can't get my head around Lommy being a boy. (this one is from the next book in the series - A Clash of Kings)

Nerwen

12-26-2011, 09:47 AM

I recently gave a try at Robin Hobb's Assassin's Apprentice. It was awful. Hobb can write well, but her plot is clichéd and her characters are cardboard cut-outs. There was, sorry to say, too much unnecessary description (rich, coming from a Tolkien fan!). But, where Tolkien's prose is lyrical and impressive in itself, Hobb's sounds forced, and lacks beauty.

I had high hopes for this book, but it was quite disappointing :( *Shields self from Hobb fans*
Ah, well, here's a newly-discovered non-Hobb fan to back you up.

My local library doesn't have the first book, but I got out the second, "Royal Assassin", recently, then started to read the third but couldn't finish it. I wouldn't say the middle book's awful, though, exactly– it is mostly well-written, and there are hints of an underlying mythos that sounds intriguing– but I just don't think that makes it worth wading through chapter after pointless chapter of Fitz-Sadsack-Chivalry whining drearily on and on and on about his loneliness and his health problems and his illegitimacy and his stigmatised psychic powers and his semi-unrequited love for Molly– and, of course, the overpowering angst of an assassin's lot. I'm not kidding when I say that I kept finding myself muttering "Just. Shut. UP!" though gritted teeth. It doesn't help that nothing much happens for ages, and that when the "real" plot finally gets going it becomes apparent there is no reason whatever for Fitz to be the main character, since he plays very little part in the overall story. Hobb tries to gloss over this by throwing in some prophecies about how Fitz is "The Catalyst... destined not to actually do anything but to be very important anyway, because... um... er... hey, look over there!", but needless to say, this doesn't work. As for the rest of the cast... well, to Hobb's credit she does try to give them some character development– in fact, she spends quite a lot of time establishing what they're like– but the trouble is, there's just not that much to establish, if you see what I mean.

Also, why is it always wolves and dragons? Why is no fantasy protagonist ever mystically soul-bonded to a sheep? I ask you.

~Yes, that was a bitter rant, that was.:rolleyes: Put it down to disappointment– I'd heard so much praise for this trilogy.

Galadriel55

12-26-2011, 09:59 AM

Also, why is it always wolves and dragons? Why is no fantasy protagonist ever mystically soul-bonded to a sheep? I ask you.

Sheep are food.

People want to be bound to the hunters, not the prey.

Sheep are stupid, wolves and dragons are smart (well, every hunter has to be smarter than the prey...:rolleyes:).

People worship the fierce animals.

What's mystical about sheep?

Sheep have no kind of loyalty except to the greens they much on.

I could go on for a while with this, but I'll stop here. There are peoples from fantasy novels that live off sheep and thus appreciate them more than just meat and wool, but they would not worship them or have some mystical ties with them. Sheep are too domestic, too tame, and too predictable to be mystical.

Though Erendis and Ancalime might not agree with me.

Nerwen

12-26-2011, 10:01 AM

That was a joke, G55.:rolleyes:

Galadriel

12-26-2011, 10:21 AM

~Yes, that was a bitter rant, that was.:rolleyes: Put it down to disappointment– I'd heard so much praise for this trilogy.

I did a worse one on Amazon :D Some parts of the book were intriguing and could have been worked on, but for the most part it was just...ugh.

Yes, I am very eloquent.

Galadriel

12-26-2011, 10:25 AM

I changed my mind after some more chapters. Jon is second. Arya is first. :D The Imp is annoying. But less so than Theon: he's Viserys all over, just on the other side of the world. :D

I liked Arya, too. That is, until the middle of the second book. Then she started to ANNOY me. I admit, Tyrion was initially not high up on my list, but after the second book...man, I think Martin put a lot of thought into this guy! And I can't believe I'm saying this, but...Jaime Lannister is slowly working his way up, too! :eek:

Can't wait till the next book comes out! Martin left us some huge cliff-hangers in the fifth book.

Lalwendë

12-26-2011, 11:43 AM

Galadriel

12-26-2011, 01:13 PM

Tyrion also gets very irritating after a while, there's only so much wise cracking you can take! I think that's one of the best things about Martin as a writer though - his characters change quite a lot. I don't think I could idolise any of the characters in A Song Of Ice and Fire, not even Ned Stark, it's not a world of heroes and villains.

SPOILERS AHEAD.

His wisecracks were the reason I did not like him at first. However, after reading a little more closely, I found he was terribly intriguing. He could possibly be called a romantic. Look at the way he keeps remembering his wife (I forget her name). He even feels for the girls working at brothels. But he knows that no one is going to take him seriously - less so if he acts all kind and encouraging. So he shrugs off emotions (or tries to) and acts tough. To put it bluntly, he knows how to play the game of thrones, even if he doesn't want to.

Of course, I'm not saying he's all good. He pretty much killed his lover and his father in cold blood, and he doesn't cringe at stealing or bribing. Still, I think he's less ruthless than Cercei and Tywin - and his greyness is what makes him so interesting.

Am I missing something here, because suddenly my argument sounds pretty stupid.

Galadriel55

12-26-2011, 05:08 PM

That was a joke, G55.

Why do I always take jokes seriously and joke about serious stuff? :rolleyes:

And I can't believe I'm saying this, but...Jaime Lannister is slowly working his way up, too!

After a certain chapter of (supposedly) truthtelling, he went up my list as well!

Theon is the lowest on my list. He's such a low treacherous arrogant ungrateful big-headed coward! :mad:

I don't think I could idolise any of the characters in A Song Of Ice and Fire, not even Ned Stark, it's not a world of heroes and villains.

I agree. Although I loved him for all his honourable traits, he deserved what he got. (do I hear some muttering? ;)) At Winterfell, where he and his justice ruled, he did fine - and got proper respect for that. But down south money is worth more than all his goodness and justice and etc. He couldn't get used to such a way of life, and wasn't fit for the game of thrones. But what really made him grey instead of white in my eyes was how he didn't stick to his honour till the end. Fine - if you value virtues above your life and the lives of those around you, so be it, don't listen to that fat ugly man telling you that you should turn around and lie to yourself and to others saying that you lied before to save your skin! And if you value truth so much, don't let it die with you! He belongs in the north, and that's that.

However, despite this, I have to give Ned his due respect for doing what he thought was right. He couldn't help it if what he thought and what others thought did not match, just as he couldn't help asking if honesty was always right.

Stannis is quite the intriguing character in the second half of the second book. If he'd only listen a bit more to some people around him! (You know, he, Viserys, and Theon remind me of the Hamptons - both father and son - from P&A :-D )

I have a feeling I'm getting as obsessed with talking about the Song of Ice and Fire as I was about a year ago with talking Tolkien. :/

Lalwendë

12-26-2011, 07:18 PM

SPOILERS AHEAD.

His wisecracks were the reason I did not like him at first. However, after reading a little more closely, I found he was terribly intriguing. He could possibly be called a romantic. Look at the way he keeps remembering his wife (I forget her name). He even feels for the girls working at brothels. But he knows that no one is going to take him seriously - less so if he acts all kind and encouraging. So he shrugs off emotions (or tries to) and acts tough. To put it bluntly, he knows how to play the game of thrones, even if he doesn't want to.

For me, it's how he is in A Dance With Dragons that forms the point at which I start to find him a bit irritating again. He's truly been through the mill at that point, and even here he doesn't stop with the clever lines. Though to be fair, I think that's why a lot of fans adore him, for his sharp tongue, and that might be why Martin chose to keep him that way. I agree he's a bit of a romantic, and that's probably his most interesting characteristic - he maintains an illusion that the women in the brothels love him for himself and not the money he has.

I agree. Although I loved him for all his honourable traits, he deserved what he got. (do I hear some muttering? ) At Winterfell, where he and his justice ruled, he did fine - and got proper respect for that. But down south money is worth more than all his goodness and justice and etc. He couldn't get used to such a way of life, and wasn't fit for the game of thrones. But what really made him grey instead of white in my eyes was how he didn't stick to his honour till the end. Fine - if you value virtues above your life and the lives of those around you, so be it, don't listen to that fat ugly man telling you that you should turn around and lie to yourself and to others saying that you lied before to save your skin! And if you value truth so much, don't let it die with you! He belongs in the north, and that's that.

However, despite this, I have to give Ned his due respect for doing what he thought was right. He couldn't help it if what he thought and what others thought did not match, just as he couldn't help asking if honesty was always right.

Interestingly, I viewed Ned as being painted as fairly 'white' all the way through A Game of Thrones, as a man who would stand by his honour no matter what. That's why he agrees to go and serve the King even if it's not what is in the best interests of him, his family and his people.

In the end, he did a bad thing like so many other characters. In going off to be The Hand, he broke his family apart and left his small children to the mercies of fate. I'm sure I'm not the only one who sits and thinks "If only..." Of course, half the story wouldn't exist if he hadn't gone, but it was his pride in his honour that led to his children suffering.

What fascinates me is how there's a really slow revelation about certain things which happened in the past, in the youth of Ned, Robert, Jaime and Rhaegar. I get the feeling that I'm going to learn at some point (once he gets the story firing up again...) exactly why Ned was so wedded to 'honour'.

I think the worst of all the characters for me has to be Gregor Clegane - a truly horrible man. Though some others run him close though I don't know how far you are with the books so I won't do spoilers ;)

Nerwen

12-26-2011, 08:00 PM

Originally Posted by Nerwen
~Yes, that was a bitter rant, that was. Put it down to disappointment– I'd heard so much praise for this trilogy.
I did a worse one on Amazon Some parts of the book were intriguing and could have been worked on, but for the most part it was just...ugh.

Yes, I am very eloquent.
Well, good for you. Pretty much all the reviews I've seen not only rave about the series' brilliance, they lavish praise on the "original" plotting and "deep, complex" characterisation. I mean, what the–? :confused: Yes, I know it's all in the eye of the beholder, and all that– but really, I was left wondering, "Have we been reading the same book?"

Galadriel55

12-26-2011, 10:29 PM

Interestingly, I viewed Ned as being painted as fairly 'white' all the way through A Game of Thrones, as a man who would stand by his honour no matter what. That's why he agrees to go and serve the King even if it's not what is in the best interests of him, his family and his people.

That's not what made him grey. It's his treason to himself that made him so - one that he thought would save some lives. It's not his fault that it didn't, but if you're so stubborn about honour, be stubborn till the end.

I think the worst of all the characters for me has to be Gregor Clegane - a truly horrible man. Though some others run him close though I don't know how far you are with the books so I won't do spoilers ;)

I can agree that he's a horrible man, but he's a beautiful character. And his brother the Hound even more so (as a character, not actually... :Merisu::D). I actually like Sandor Clegane a lot. He's the most interesting beast in a Beauty and the Beast thing. But I actually like that one for more than being an interesting character. Somehow he's closer to being a Ned than all these "honourable" true knights... The good, white Ned...

Galadriel

12-27-2011, 03:33 AM

I can agree that he's a horrible man, but he's a beautiful character. And his brother the Hound even more so (as a character, not actually... :Merisu::D). I actually like Sandor Clegane a lot. He's the most interesting beast in a Beauty and the Beast thing. But I actually like that one for more than being an interesting character. Somehow he's closer to being a Ned than all these "honourable" true knights... The good, white Ned...

Gregor I never liked, but Sandor is quite interesting. I know that he's utterly ruthless, but for some reason I can't seem to think he's all bad.

Lalwendë

12-27-2011, 05:58 AM

The Hound is a fascinating character. He's introduced as a brutal man, solely a fighter, and one with a very dry and dark sense of humour. But you gradually learn his background and he shows a caring side (which comes first though? I am going to have to read again to work that out!). I think it's right that he does have more of a true sense of 'nobility' than, for example, many of the other knights of the Kingsguard. He's simply not interested in chivalry and though he's uncouth and brutal, some of his actions show more 'honour' than most of his fellows show. I always find it interesting how Sansa idolises the young, attractive nobles and knights and yet it's the twisted, brutal Hound who treats her with respect.

Galadriel55

12-27-2011, 11:41 AM

I always find it interesting how Sansa idolises the young, attractive nobles and knights and yet it's the twisted, brutal Hound who treats her with respect.

I kept wondering how she can be so blind to not see anything beyond his face. She should have felt something for him - pity, at least. Respect. Understanding. I was waiting for the whole book for her to develop some kind of affection for him - and instead she goes for her Florian. Sansa disappoints me. I thought she learned her lesson of judging people by their appearance with her dear prince. It's unfortunate that it spread only as far as Lannisters go. But even so - she's closer to the young brave wounded Lancel Lannister who did her nothing than to the Hound who saved her a bunch of times and opened his soul to her and just did so much more for her.

Galadriel

12-28-2011, 02:09 AM

[QUOTE=Galadriel55;665451]I kept wondering how she can be so blind to not see anything beyond his face. She should have felt something for him - pity, at least. Respect. Understanding. I was waiting for the whole book for her to develop some kind of affection for him - and instead she goes for her Florian.

True. But Sansa is ultimately shallow. Which springs, ironically, from her following rules religiously. She honestly thinks sewing and looking pretty will get her out of sticky situations. Her problem is that she takes everyone's word for it.

Sansa disappoints me.

As a person, yes. As a character, no. Still, she is one of my least favourites. Nearly at the bottom, in fact.

I thought she learned her lesson of judging people by their appearance with her dear prince. It's unfortunate that it spread only as far as Lannisters go. But even so - she's closer to the young brave wounded Lancel Lannister who did her nothing than to the Hound who saved her a bunch of times and opened his soul to her and just did so much more for her.

Always felt bad for Sandor :(

Lalwendë

12-28-2011, 06:38 AM

Sansa, however, is the POV character for quite a lot of very interesting chapters, and they are all narrated very well. I often think Martin was using her fondness and awareness of stories to express those chapters in such a clear way. As a character, she does change, and I don't know if you've all got to A Storm Of Swords yet, but I think that's where we start to see her realising she has been used and will carry on being used.

I feel sorry for her. Yes, she made some awful mistakes when she was so young and petulant, but she has been raised as a courtly lady without learning all the skills of cunning and intrigue that other ladies have learnt. And in her own way, Arya is just as naive and has to learn for herself. The same goes for Robb and Jon.

Galadriel55

12-28-2011, 09:51 AM

As a character, she does change, and I don't know if you've all got to A Storm Of Swords yet, but I think that's where we start to see her realising she has been used and will carry on being used.

I just started A Storm of Swords, but I didn't get to Sansa's narration yet. I think she began to realise that in A Clash of Kings, and she did absolutely nothing about it except for cry in her pillow about the big bad Lannisters.

True. But Sansa is ultimately shallow. Which springs, ironically, from her following rules religiously. She honestly thinks sewing and looking pretty will get her out of sticky situations. Her problem is that she takes everyone's word for it.

I don't think she's shallow. She's just passive. And she lives in her dreams and in the songs that she hears, where every knight is a hero who protects the maiden and every villain is ultimately punished. She expected for it to be this way at King's Landing - everyone is honest and goodwilled and noble and etc. Well, they aren't. I'm looking forward to the moment when she'll discard that helpless damsel-in-distress passivness and start learning. I think she won't be as shallow after that.

Galadriel

12-28-2011, 10:25 AM

[QUOTE=Lalwendë;665458]I don't know if you've all got to A Storm Of Swords yet, but I think that's where we start to see her realising she has been used and will carry on being used.

She does change, but I have doubts as to whether she's really over her gushing romantic stage.

I feel sorry for her. Yes, she made some awful mistakes when she was so young and petulant, but she has been raised as a courtly lady without learning all the skills of cunning and intrigue that other ladies have learnt. And in her own way, Arya is just as naive and has to learn for herself. The same goes for Robb and Jon.

My point exactly. I initially felt Arya may have been more mature and more understanding of the world around her, but in a sense she's just as clueless as her sister. IMO she does not yet know how to 'play the game' - she's too blunt and too headstrong. Jon seems to be getting more and more confused as the series goes on. A Dance with Dragons was certainly a shock, regarding Jon.

Lalwendë

12-28-2011, 11:00 AM

I just started A Storm of Swords, but I didn't get to Sansa's narration yet. I think she began to realise that in A Clash of Kings, and she did absolutely nothing about it except for cry in her pillow about the big bad Lannisters.

I won't spoil it for you then! There's a lot more to come for her and I was really pleased with the chapters based on her POV.

I don't think she's shallow. She's just passive. And she lives in her dreams and in the songs that she hears, where every knight is a hero who protects the maiden and every villain is ultimately punished. She expected for it to be this way at King's Landing - everyone is honest and goodwilled and noble and etc. Well, they aren't. I'm looking forward to the moment when she'll discard that helpless damsel-in-distress passivness and start learning. I think she won't be as shallow after that.

I think she is starting to learn, she's got a lot further to go yet though...

My point exactly. I initially felt Arya may have been more mature and more understanding of the world around her, but in a sense she's just as clueless as her sister. IMO she does not yet know how to 'play the game' - she's too blunt and too headstrong. Jon seems to be getting more and more confused as the series goes on. A Dance with Dragons was certainly a shock, regarding Jon.

I think they are very similar, despite one sister being very girly and the other a tomboy. They both have a lot to learn and I feel were sheltered to the extent that they were allowed to build up romantic notions of both being a lady and being a warrior. It's quite clever though, as it shows up what an idyllic upbringing they had at Winterfell and at the same time, means both of them have a lot of character development and potential left in them.

Galadriel55

12-28-2011, 11:15 AM

Talking of naive, Brienne beats all of them. :D She's a darling, but such a child too!

I think they are very similar, despite one sister being very girly and the other a tomboy. They both have a lot to learn and I feel were sheltered to the extent that they were allowed to build up romantic notions of both being a lady and being a warrior. It's quite clever though, as it shows up what an idyllic upbringing they had at Winterfell and at the same time, means both of them have a lot of character development and potential left in them.

That made me think about what happened to them already. It seems that they both learned to hate, but on the other hand, it seems they've just got their first taste of it. And both of them have to learn how to control it and use it.

Aganzir

12-28-2011, 12:46 PM

Pretty much all the reviews I've seen not only rave about the series' brilliance, they lavish praise on the "original" plotting and "deep, complex" characterisation. I mean, what the–?"
I remember hearing she wanted to take some of the most common fantasy cliches and see if she could make anything original of them. I think the Farseer trilogy is good enough a read - it's entertaining, and I was never too bothered by the things Galadriel & Nerwen mentioned. Hobb is good at carrying the plot, however her endings are often bad; too happy or simply waaay too unrealistic. I liked best the Liveship Traders series which is, in my opinion, a lot more interesting than the Six Duchies stuff... but it has also problems, such as dragons. I despise dragons, and hers are particularly awful.

I actually like Sandor Clegane a lot. He's the most interesting beast in a Beauty and the Beast thing. But I actually like that one for more than being an interesting character. Somehow he's closer to being a Ned than all these "honourable" true knights... The good, white Ned...
The Hound is the best ever. I've liked him since... A Clash of Kings, I think - but then, I never liked A Game of Thrones.

I also like Theon, and I pity him. I remember my thoughts when reading ACoK: "He seemed so nice, and now he's horrible... ah well he'll learn eventually; he'll be likeable again later on if he survives until then."

I kept wondering how she can be so blind to not see anything beyond his face. She should have felt something for him - pity, at least. Respect. Understanding. I was waiting for the whole book for her to develop some kind of affection for him - and instead she goes for her Florian. Sansa disappoints me. I thought she learned her lesson of judging people by their appearance with her dear prince.
Sansa is not very intelligent. It probably has to do with her upbringing, but it might also be she's a bit slow, or then only naive and immature. Anyway, there's something very endearing about her. I am convinced she'll learn to stand up for herself (and feel something for the Hound) before the end of the series, or die trying.

Originally, Sansa and Dany were my least favourite characters. Now they're my two favourites. They both have grown a lot, and show potential for further growth.

Jon seems to be getting more and more confused as the series goes on. A Dance with Dragons was certainly a shock, regarding Jon.
My defence of Jon Snow has probably become a bit of a joke by now, but honestly I've never seen him as a pathetic/confused/whiny character. He knows what he wants, and he knows he can get it. He's the kind of person who prefers to do things by himself because that's the only way he can be sure they are done well. He thinks outside the box. The only thing he lacks is a simultaneous interpreter who could explain to others why Jon Snow's reasoning is sound, and that's why he lands into trouble every now and then.

When the series ends, I want a Targaryen on the throne. Not because of the dragons, but because the Targaryens are the coolest family.

Lalwendë

12-28-2011, 01:26 PM

That made me think about what happened to them already. It seems that they both learned to hate, but on the other hand, it seems they've just got their first taste of it. And both of them have to learn how to control it and use it.

I think that because neither of them have been taught about how to manipulate others, and neither of them were brought up with a knowledge that the world was a harsh place, once they both grow up then they stand the potential to be so much more deadly than anyone like Cersei could even dream about. Their lessons have been hard and learnt out in the world, on their own.

My defence of Jon Snow has probably become a bit of a joke by now, but honestly I've never seen him as a pathetic/confused/whiny character. He knows what he wants, and he knows he can get it. He's the kind of person who prefers to do things by himself because that's the only way he can be sure they are done well. He thinks outside the box. The only thing he lacks is a simultaneous interpreter who could explain to others why Jon Snow's reasoning is sound, and that's why he lands into trouble every now and then.

I love Jon Snow too. He's anything but 'whiny' and I love how he is always slightly an outsider wherever he goes and whatever he achieves - and doesn't let that stop him.

Galadriel55

12-28-2011, 09:49 PM

My defence of Jon Snow has probably become a bit of a joke by now, but honestly I've never seen him as a pathetic/confused/whiny character. He knows what he wants, and he knows he can get it. He's the kind of person who prefers to do things by himself because that's the only way he can be sure they are done well. He thinks outside the box. The only thing he lacks is a simultaneous interpreter who could explain to others why Jon Snow's reasoning is sound, and that's why he lands into trouble every now and then.

In 2-and-a-bit books there were only 2 narrations from him that I didn't like. One, that I really thought whiny, where his friends barely stop him from making the biggest blunder of his life and running away. The second - when he welcomes Sam into his company. I never liked bullying stories. Middle School force-feeds enough of them. Otherwise, he was not whiny or confused at all. It depends on how you define pathetic, because I think he is pretty wretched once he understood the role that Halfhand prepared for him. But then, he was so collected and even cunning during his talk with the king! :eek: He sure keeps his wits with him at all times!

I think that because neither of them have been taught about how to manipulate others, and neither of them were brought up with a knowledge that the world was a harsh place, once they both grow up then they stand the potential to be so much more deadly than anyone like Cersei could even dream about. Their lessons have been hard and learnt out in the world, on their own.

Also they are likely to be more dangerous because they would appreciate the power of both Winterfell's virtues and southern court intrigue/manipulation, and once they will adjust to the latter, they'll make use of both. Cersei would never understand what it means to respect a man for being fair for justice's sake, because she never understood justice. She would only have half of what they would have.

Estelyn Telcontar

12-30-2011, 02:58 PM

Lalwendë

12-30-2011, 03:54 PM

I hope he does get it together and bring all the storylines back and finish the series. It's the only fantasy fiction series aimed at adults I've read since I first picked up Lord of the Rings that I could say I've been obsessed with (though I've tried with many others).

Galadriel

12-31-2011, 05:13 AM

Bêthberry

12-31-2011, 10:54 AM

To go back to a previous book reference:

I read the first two books of Patrick Rothfuss' Kingkiller Chronicles this week and enjoyed them tremendously! From the first lines of The Name of the Wind, which become a theme with variations, used as bookends in both books, I was captivated. The author created a very enjoyable main character, whom the reader gets to know at two times, both past and present, and I can hardly wait for the third part of the trilogy to find out what happens. The plot is interesting, the writing is very good, with some fascinating linguistic elements and turns of phrases.

I'm glad to hear that someone else has been captivated by the books! (I really have to get the second one.) The Kvothe character is so intriguing, as his life at different times draws different responses from the reader--and given that we, as you say, know him at two times, that's quite intriguing--and there's just enough hint of his complexity not to make him totally sympathetic.

Rothfuss has Tolkien's sure hand at using suggestion well in storymaking. His timing is also bang-on. Just when I find myself thoroughly enthralled by an event or situation ,events change, not in a cheap way, but to keep me on my toes (fingers?) and remind me that there's nothing maudlin or sentimental about this work.

I hope he does get it together and bring all the storylines back and finish the series. It's the only fantasy fiction series aimed at adults I've read since I first picked up Lord of the Rings that I could say I've been obsessed with (though I've tried with many others).

Do take a gander at Rothfuss' work if you are looking for fantasy that can satisfy adults.

Mister Underhill

12-31-2011, 01:24 PM

Bêthberry

01-02-2012, 06:48 PM

My mouth is hanging open, my old friends! When NotW received so much buzz a couple of years back, I thought I'd check it out -- but he lost me in the first few sentences with the bit about the three-part silence. I read another couple of chapters, but I thought the writing was terrible and finally gave up. Now two wights whose tastes and opinions I highly value are gushing about the book. Did I just not push in far enough? Rothfuss seems to be a divisive writer. What do you guys think of the many complaints I've seen that Kvothe is the epitome of a Mary Sue character?

And a happy new year to you, Mister U. ;)

This doesn't surprise me, as I once checked into Neal Stephenson's Cryptonomicon on your recommendation, but couldn't get into it, nor do I particularly like Stephen King, another of your faves. Methinks we have different tastes. (And I was much taken by William Gibson's Neuromancer, although was disappointed by his Pattern Recognition, so I don't think it's that I don't appreciate post-modern writing. And my taste is in good company, as Ursula LeGuin enjoys the language and the music of Rothfuss's words. As you say, Rothfuss is a divisive writer. But then so was/is Tolkien.

I liked the suspense over the scraeling creature in the first chapter and the characters' different attitudes towards it and the mix of realism with fantasy in the entire world. The elements of medievalism aren't sentimental but hard-nosed. And the theme of names intrigued me. And the travelling troupe. Gypsies still in Europe today are given short shrift (having personally seen how they are treated in Paris and Rome) and I appreciated the depiction of a similar group or tribe. Maybe it's the sense of a post-modern take on a medieval world that I found interesting.

Surely you mean Gary Stu or Marty Stu, Mister U? Here's a test for such characters, which I haven't bothered to work out: Litmus test for Mary Sue characters. (http://www.ponylandpress.com/ms-test.html) ;) Kvothe often is pig-heated and makes bad decisions and his red hair I thought was a reference to his tribe rather than anything Mary Sueish--although who's to say it isn't Rothfuss's joke at such character's expense? Can't remember the colour of his eyes. But then, you're the first I've read of a complaint that he is a Mary Sue character, so I'll put it down to your inimitable wit. :Merisu: But more seriously, I was drawn to figuring out the discrepancies in his condition.

I wonder what our very own Downs expert on Merisu would say?

Nerwen

01-03-2012, 04:33 AM

Surely you mean Gary Stu or Marty Stu, Mister U? Here's a test for such characters, which I haven't bothered to work out: Litmus test for Mary Sue characters. (http://www.ponylandpress.com/ms-test.html) ;)
I haven't even read The Name of the Wind, but I still predict this Kvothe chap *would* fail that particular litmus test, simply by virtue of... being the main character in a fantasy novel. Really, I think the thing is a bit over-the-top.

Snowdog

01-03-2012, 04:52 PM

Happy New Year Barrow Downs! Hoping I will be a bit more active here this year? We'll see.

What the tale end of 2011 brought me book-wise was the Steve Erikson book series "The Mazatlan Books of the Fallen'. I'm just now reading book 1 which is Gardens of the Moon'. So far I like it!

Mister Underhill

01-03-2012, 10:54 PM

And a happy new year to you, Mister U. ;)
And to you and your tribe, Bb. Thanks for a restrained reply to a rather annoying post on my part. Apologies to you, Esty, and other Rothfuss fans for my boorishness. I think I shall give Rothfuss another try based on the high marks given by two of my favorite wights. Who knows, I may just end up eating more humble pie for a too-hasty judgment, as happened in the case of a certain sci-fi show. Perhaps I was too over-hyped as well -- Best fantasy since Tolkien! etc. Fantasy books don't generally create enough buzz to even get on my radar these days, but NotW sure did.

Gibson is an interesting writer. Toronto guy. :) I love his early stuff, but I too have had a harder time getting into his later work. He's a good Twitter follow, though, if you're into such things.

Estelyn Telcontar

01-04-2012, 07:09 AM

Happy New Year, and many merry greetings in the coming 12 months, Underhill!! I know there are a number of your favourite authors/books that don't suit my taste, so it wouldn't surprise me if you didn't like some of mine.

What I look for in a story (book, movie, TV show) is emotional warmth, and Rothfuss supplies that abundantly. The plot is not predictable, the characters have depth and breadth, and the secondary world is well-drawn and believable.

I too have a series of books that I started and put away after a few pages - Tad Williams' "Shadowmarch". Can anyone tell me if it's worth tackling them again, worth the many hours it would take to read all of them? I hesitate to invest so much time without knowing the experience will be enjoyable.

Legate of Amon Lanc

01-04-2012, 07:41 AM

I too have a series of books that I started and put away after a few pages - Tad Williams' "Shadowmarch". Can anyone tell me if it's worth tackling them again, worth the many hours it would take to read all of them? I hesitate to invest so much time without knowing the experience will be enjoyable.

What is it with Tad Williams and putting the book away after a few first pages?

(That much from me on the subject of "what fantasy books you DON'T read"...)

Estelyn Telcontar

01-04-2012, 08:33 AM

Thanks, Legate - that's a subtle hint, but helpful! ;)

Galadriel

01-05-2012, 01:38 AM

What the tale end of 2011 brought me book-wise was the Steve Erikson book series "The Mazatlan Books of the Fallen'. I'm just now reading book 1 which is Gardens of the Moon'. So far I like it!

I tried that book. Couldn't get through it. Unfortunately, there's no library even remotely near where I live (the only relatively decent one is over a thousand miles away) so each book I read must be bought. What a pain.

Lalwendë

01-10-2012, 05:07 PM

Has anyone read The Green Child by Herbert Read (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Green_Child)? This came up as the lead item on Wikipedia the other day and I was intrigued by it.

The Green Child is the only completed novel by the English anarchist poet and critic Herbert Read.[1] Written in 1934 and first published by Heinemann in 1935, the story is based on the 12th-century legend of two green children who mysteriously appeared in the English village of Woolpit, speaking an apparently unknown language.[2] Read described the legend in his English Prose Style, published in 1931, as "the norm to which all types of fantasy should conform".[3]

I know about the legend of the Children of Woolpit, but I've never heard of this novel before. From the synopsis, it strikes me that Guillermo del Toro might have read this before he penned Pan's Labyrinth...

Aganzir

01-14-2012, 05:49 PM

I never stated that he was pathetic or whiny. Just confused.
I know - I was mostly thinking back to my long debates about Jon Snow's nature with a certain Hookbill the Goomba who doesn't exactly agree with me.
I actually like the coldness you speak about, but I can see why it might turn people against him - his Brothers included.

Did I just not push in far enough? Rothfuss seems to be a divisive writer. What do you guys think of the many complaints I've seen that Kvothe is the epitome of a Mary Sue character?
I'm now about midway through the first book, and for the first 100 pages or so I wasn't sure if I liked it enough to finish it. It's got better after that, and even though I still think every now and then that I've seen it all before, Rothfuss has some surprises in store and I've been positively surprised more than once. Based on what I've seen so far, I don't think you'll miss a lot even if you don't read it, but it's entertaining enough. Except if all you want of literature is the absence of Gary Stus (thanks B-berry! ;)) because I think I can see where the people who complain about it are coming from.

Can't remember the colour of his eyes.
They're green. Sometimes a very dark green if he's in the right mood and there's a certain light, I seem to remember. ;)

Happy New Year Barrow Downs! Hoping I will be a bit more active here this year? We'll see.
I totally cracked up at your post title. And not just two, you see: there's Galadriel, Galadriel55 and Nerwen!

The part of my holiday that I didn't spend roleplaying was spent reading Neil Gaiman: Neverwhere and Anansi Boys. I enjoyed both tremendously. He's a truly talented writer who can create both interesting plots and many-layered characters.

Don't know yet what I'm going to read after The Name of the Wind - I might try The Wise Man's Fear, or then something else. Has anyone read anything by Joe Abercrombie - another writer I was recommended?

Oddwen

01-14-2012, 07:48 PM

I've read The Blade Itself trilogy. It was different, but I'm not sure if I liked it or not - a re-read would cement a feeling about it but I don't want to yet. That and Watchmen have been the only things I've read that made me step back and bleat "What did I just read??", so take that as you will.

I do want to read his other series(es?) in the same world though.

Aganzir

01-18-2012, 12:01 PM

I take back what I said about Rothfuss.

He's brilliant. Can't remember when I last lost so much sleep because of a book! It probably tells something that I've read about 600 pages on since my last post, and since I obviously read English slower than Finnish, I consider it an impressive achievement.

And no, I haven't really seen it all before. It just took me a while to realise it - but then, I tend to be a tad too quick to judge everything anyway.

HerenIstarion

01-18-2012, 01:25 PM

Reading became easier affair ever since I treated myself to Kindle :) Now I keep carrying it around in my bag reading snatches of stuff whenever there is a break in anything going on during the day (time previously dedicated to idle fiddling with the phone and other pointless activities of the kind)

In this fashion I found myself able to reread quite a few of my favourites, like Goblin Reservation by Clifford Simak (not quite fantasy, rather sci-fi, to be precise, but still with Goblins, Trolls, Banshees and a dragon in it I hope it wan't get frowned upon as not in compliance with the thread topic)

Out of ongoing fantasy reading, rereading Harry Potter series (fer meself) and reading Chronicles of Narnia to my kid

Galadriel

01-22-2012, 10:04 AM

Reading became easier affair ever since I treated myself to Kindle :)

Ugh. I downloaded the Kindle application on my ipad. I found it pretty useless :(

Bêthberry

01-22-2012, 12:05 PM

Aganzir

01-22-2012, 01:34 PM

What's sleep anyway? :D
The thing that makes not skipping morning classes possible. :p

I finished The Wise Man's Fear today. It was fantastic. I enjoyed especially the Ademre, as you might guess. And I'm at a loss for what to read now (which means that I'm actually reading schoolbooks for once).

Boo Radley

01-22-2012, 07:31 PM

Fantasy books? Pratchett's Discworld series immediately comes to mind. I've read those two or three times.

Galadriel

01-23-2012, 01:37 PM

I think I finally realised why I put Tolkien ahead of other fantasy writers. It's not because I read him first; it's because he did things a little more realistically when it came to his protagonist. After all, many seemingly unimpressive people have done great things - and those great things have not always been appreciated or even acknowledged by other people. Frodo, just a three-foot-tall Hobbit, goes on a quest not for glory or vengeance, but because he feels it's right (from the heart), and actually succeeds in it. And yet people in his own village have no idea that he is the reason they are still there. The only people who know about it (aside from the Fellowship, Fatty and Bilbo) are a different species and live hundreds of miles away.

I mean, Frodo can barely fight with a sword - one could say Sting does all the work for him - and yet he's a hero. I hate the way most 'heroes' these days are just tall, slim, athletic boys and girls who are perfect at archery or can read minds or do other things that hardly anyone can relate to. Frodo's a hero from the heart - where it really counts.

Yeah, sorry for the sappy speech, and I'm pretty sure anyone could argue with what I've said because of my careless phrasing, but you get the general gist. :p

Galadriel55

01-23-2012, 04:28 PM

Not gonna argue with you as you've just put most of my own thoughts into words. :) I think it's even sadder that Frodo's quest is not appreciated by those whose appreciation he would value above all others - the Shire. But again, I could argue with myself:

...that what he [Frodo] had to do, he had to do, if he could, and that whether Faramir or Aragorn or Elrond or Galadriel or Gandalf or anyone else ever knew about it was beside the purpose.

Such a simple quote, but tells so much! And notice that Frodo doesn't mention hobbits. Maybe he knows deep down that he doesn't want to be a hero among his own.

Am I turning into a schizophrenic, arguing with myself? :rolleyes:

HerenIstarion

01-24-2012, 01:17 PM

Ugh. I downloaded the Kindle application on my ipad. I found it pretty useless :(

I have an app named FBreader on android phone, it works just fine - reads epub, mobi and fb2 formats, meaning I'm always copying whatever I'm currently reading on Kindle to the phone (as Kindle resides in a backpack and I'm not always moving about with it).

I used to have it on Nokia before that, so there was a version for Symbian OS too, they might have something in Iphone line too (fbreader.org was the site), I'm positive there was one for Mac at the very least.

Hope it's not taking the thread away from it's purpose, let's say the purpose of this post is to make fantasy books' reading easier :D

Galadriel

01-30-2012, 06:30 PM

I have an app named FBreader on android phone, it works just fine - reads epub, mobi and fb2 formats, meaning I'm always copying whatever I'm currently reading on Kindle to the phone (as Kindle resides in a backpack and I'm not always moving about with it).

I used to have it on Nokia before that, so there was a version for Symbian OS too, they might have something in Iphone line too (fbreader.org was the site), I'm positive there was one for Mac at the very least.

Lol, I'm about as informed about phones and laptops as Tolkien was about general machines :D I may use Amazon, but it's always for buying actual books. Kindle books are so expensive :eek: And if it goes once, it goes forever. The Kindle, I mean.

Boo Radley

01-30-2012, 07:01 PM

What Galadriel said.

I like real books and I plan to continue reading real books for as long as I possibly can.

Galadriel

01-31-2012, 07:35 AM

I'm currently reading A Wizard of Earthsea (did I mention that before?) but I'm a little surprised at Le Guin's portrayal of women - considering she herself is a woman. All the women in the first book are either old and useless or pretty and good. I was also taken aback by Le Guin's use of the phrases 'weak as a woman's magic' and 'wicked as a woman's magic' in consecutive sentences. So women's magic is either weak or evil? Wow. This book takes feminism back to the 1700s. Considering Earthsea is not set in the primary world (even if it is set a 'long time ago'), she could have easily given women at least intellectual strength.

Now, I get a bit tired of feminist arguments from time to time, but this lady really makes me want to hit her. I hear she gets really feminist in the fourth book, but that it's also really bad. Sigh.

I am also reading His Dark Materials, and would like to know if anyone else thinks that Lyra is a blatant Sue.

Yes, I am annoyed.

Nerwen

01-31-2012, 07:54 PM

I'm currently reading A Wizard of Earthsea (did I mention that before?) but I'm a little surprised at Le Guin's portrayal of women - considering she herself is a woman. All the women in the first book are either old and useless or pretty and good.
Serret is beautiful and, if not definitely evil, at least highly morally ambiguous– but then as she's the only powerful female magic-user in the book, I'm not sure if that helps matters.

I was also taken aback by Le Guin's use of the phrases 'weak as a woman's magic' and 'wicked as a woman's magic' in consecutive sentences. So women's magic is either weak or evil? Wow. This book takes feminism back to the 1700s. Considering Earthsea is not set in the primary world (even if it is set a 'long time ago'), she could have easily given women at least intellectual strength.
I don't think it's clear, even in the first book, whether you're meant to take all that "wicked as women's magic" stuff as being real, or merely a matter of prejudice. Not that I buy that it's deliberate social criticism either– it's not like the belief is ever challenged, even in a "token" sort of way.

Now, I get a bit tired of feminist arguments from time to time, but this lady really makes me want to hit her. I hear she gets really feminist in the fourth book, but that it's also really bad.
Unfortunately, yes– mainly because so much of it consists of Le Guin vainly trying to talk her way out of the fairly gratuitous sexism of the previous books.:rolleyes:

With all that, she is still one of my favourite SF writers, and the Earthsea trilogy one of the few works of high fantasy I think really compares to Lord of the Rings– by being as different as possible. Honestly I'm really getting rather jaded about the seemingly endless supply of brick-novels that do little more than recycle the old cliches.

HerenIstarion

02-01-2012, 12:35 PM

And if it goes once, it goes forever. The Kindle, I mean.

Books may be kept in several places - like I have them stored in the desktop PC, in the laptop, in both phones and the kindle - I don't think ALL my gadgets are going to break down together all of a sudden :smokin:

And even if they do, the e-books you purchased from Amazon are also stored on Amazon server - you can re-download them at any point you like :)

Galadriel

02-01-2012, 12:56 PM

[QUOTE=Nerwen;666843]Serret is beautiful and, if not definitely evil, at least highly morally ambiguous– but then as she's the only powerful female magic-user in the book, I'm not sure if that helps matters.

I didn't find her all that ambiguous :confused:

I don't think it's clear, even in the first book, whether you're meant to take all that "wicked as women's magic" stuff as being real, or merely a matter of prejudice. Not that I buy that it's deliberate social criticism either– it's not like the belief is ever challenged, even in a "token" sort of way.

True - and there's little to prove those statements wrong.

With all that, she is still one of my favourite SF writers, and the Earthsea trilogy one of the few works of high fantasy I think really compares to Lord of the Rings– by being as different as possible. Honestly I'm really getting rather jaded about the seemingly endless supply of brick-novels that do little more than recycle the old cliches.

Aside from the sexism factor, I quite like her books as well. Ged is a really good character, and the philosophy about names is quite interesting. And I know what you mean about the recycling of old cliches. This seems to be the general plot of most fantasy novels, with nothing very different about the way it's done: orphaned/abused child - child finds out he/she is a great wizard/sorcerer or the last of a species or a great lineage - sets out for vengeance/identity and meets mysterious person (usually a man) on the way - man turns out to be the only person who can 'teach' the protagonist the things they want to learn - protagonist learns all ridiculously fast and well - protagonist up against a series of villains - protagonist comes out victorious without really sacrificing anything that is really important.

Sigh.

Galadriel

02-01-2012, 12:58 PM

And even if they do, the e-books you purchased from Amazon are also stored on Amazon server - you can re-download them at any point you like :)

But you'll have to buy a new Kindle :smokin:

HerenIstarion

02-08-2012, 06:35 AM

But you'll have to buy a new Kindle :smokin:

If it broke of its own accord (like if you haven't danced a jig on it or did not flush it in the toilet or something very obviously damaging to it), more likely than not amazon will replace it free of charge (apart from shipping expenses I believe)

Galadriel

02-08-2012, 08:21 AM

If it broke of its own accord (like if you haven't danced a jig on it or did not flush it in the toilet or something very obviously damaging to it), more likely than not amazon will replace it free of charge (apart from shipping expenses I believe)

Very generous :eek: No hidden agenda?

Morthoron

02-08-2012, 11:15 AM

Very generous :eek: No hidden agenda?

No hidden aganda at all, in fact, the object is very overt: to flood the market with their product (as well as underpricing their units), and thus crush the competition.

In the immortal words of Duncan McLeod, "There can be only one!"

Lalwendë

02-08-2012, 05:27 PM

No need to buy a new Kindle even if you did flush it down the khazi (and why would you do that, unless you were reading Breaking Dawn?) - you can simply download the necessary app for free, to use on your computer, smartphone or spanky android tablet.

Now there is nothing to stop everyone from downloading fantastic and witty new books, eh?

HerenIstarion

02-08-2012, 06:11 PM

you can simply download the necessary app for free, to use on your computer, smartphone or spanky android tablet.

I do have FBreading apps on my phones (see up there), but I still think if my kindle broke (I hope it won't), I will still go for a new one (but not a touchscreen, just the keyboard one I have, Kindle 3 that would be) - it just feels like I'm reading a 'real' book when I'm reading with it (specially as I've bought a leather cover to go with it so now I'm holding it with both hands lying on my back - very bookish feeling for me, you know) :)

As for Amazon's generosity - they always used to be like that. I remember back in 2000 or maybe 2001, one of my orders was late (like, couple of months, maybe three) - so I figured it was lost for good and wrote about it. The replacement was sent to me free of charge - but that's not the point of the story - actually it so happened that original shipment turned up in a couple of months more - so I ended with two sets of identical books for half price. I wrote to Amazon yet again to inform them about it asking for the way of returning extra - the answer was - please do keep it for we value our customers etc etc. Apart from being impressed, I had much less trouble in my birthday gift selection process for my friends that year :D

Edit: And to keep up the pretense of at least trying to stay on topic - currently rereading Harry Potter with said piece of equipment :D (which reminds me... I should proceed back to the couch I left my HP-ed Kindle on...)

Thinlómien

02-14-2012, 02:07 PM

Personally, I love (most of) Robin Hobb's books because of her superb storytelling and the books' huge "awwww-ing potential". I can see that the slowish everyday life and emotional zigzag of the main character could annoy somebody but I like it - maybe because I feel for the main character and can sympathise with him. Maybe it's an age thing? I first read the books as a teenager and I have had a soft spot for them ever since although I don't relate with Fitz so much anymore. I also like the way Hobb picks the most ridiculous clichés and turns them into something captivating, and I find the characters very likable. Some of them seem a little flat, yes, but I'm blaming it on the narrator's subjectivity as it's just the main character speaking. Maybe that's one more reason I like the Farseer series and the subsequent Tawny Man trilogy so much - they have a likeable and complicated enough first person narrator which is (a little sadly) quite rare in epic fantasy.

Nerwen and others - if you're bored of fantasy literature just recycling the same old ideas, I would suggest authors like Neil Gaiman and China Miéville, or maybe even the crazy Hal Duncan. None of it is traditional "high fantasy" though.

Last year I didn't read maybe as much fantasy as I normally do, but I did for example finally read some stuff I had been meaning to read for years, such as Lord Dunsany's King of the Elf-land's Daughter, Frank Herbert's Dune (which I would classify as science fiction, though) and The Princess Bride by S. Morgenstern/ William Goldman. They were all definitely worth reading, but had their weak points too. I also acquainted myself with aforementioned China Miéville and Kage Baker, a humoristic fantasy author, whose style left me a little confused. Of course, I also read more of one of my definite favourites, Guy Gavriel Kay, and was amazed again (just how can someone write in such a beautiful and epic manner?), and reread George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series. He's now been promoted to be included in the list of my favourite authors. ;)

Lastly, I read two collections of "short" stories by supposed masters of the fantasy genre, named Legends and Legends II and edited by Robert Silverberg. Based on what I read there, I'd like to ask a question: are Orson Scott Card and Terry Goodkind worth a closer acquaintance? I quite liked their stories in these collections.

Alfirin

02-14-2012, 06:36 PM

II [/I]and edited by Robert Silverberg. Based on what I read there, I'd like to ask a question: are Orson Scott Card and Terry Goodkind worth a closer acquaintance? I quite liked their stories in these collections.

I asume the Orson Scott Card story you are referring to is The Grinning Man and that therfore you are asking if it is worth persuing his Alvin Maker series (his Ender's game stuff is quite different). I'd say yes, they are a very well written series (just bear in mind that there is still one more book to go, but Card has been slow to write that one) besides the books (Seventh Son, Red Prophet, Prentice Alvin, Alvin Journeyman, Heartfire, and The Crystal City) there's one more short story "Yazoo Queen" (you can find that in the Swords and Sorcery anthology) and "Prentice Alvin and the No Good Plow" which is a long epic poem that outlined the whole plot of the series before Card wrote the books (and therfore has clues about what is going to happen in the last book")

Thinlómien

02-15-2012, 06:39 AM

I asume the Orson Scott Card story you are referring to is The Grinning Man and that therfore you are asking if it is worth persuing his Alvin Maker series (his Ender's game stuff is quite different). I'd say yes, they are a very well written series (just bear in mind that there is still one more book to go, but Card has been slow to write that one) besides the books (Seventh Son, Red Prophet, Prentice Alvin, Alvin Journeyman, Heartfire, and The Crystal City) there's one more short story "Yazoo Queen" (you can find that in the Swords and Sorcery anthology) and "Prentice Alvin and the No Good Plow" which is a long epic poem that outlined the whole plot of the series before Card wrote the books (and therfore has clues about what is going to happen in the last book")Thanks Alf! I did indeed read The Grinning Man, and actually Yazoo Queen was also in one of these collections. So maybe once I've read the books in my shelf borrowed from library and from my parents (a pile of classics I need to read for a literature course and a few others) I will probably make a reservation for Seventh Son in the city library.

Alfirin

02-15-2012, 04:17 PM

Thanks Alf! I did indeed read The Grinning Man, and actually Yazoo Queen was also in one of these collections. So maybe once I've read the books in my shelf borrowed from library and from my parents (a pile of classics I need to read for a literature course and a few others) I will probably make a reservation for Seventh Son in the city library.

Actually, it's the poem that's going to be the tough one to locate, that hasn't been reprinted much. I think your best chance (once you read all the books) is to ask your library if they have a copy of Maps in a Mirror, a HUGE book that collects a lot of Card's short story work (reading that will also give you an idea about the other stuff he has done) Alternitively (if you are lazy) you can try and find/download the audio collection "The Elephants of Poznan" which has Card reading the poem. The fist of this also re-prints the Tolkein tribute story Card did for After the King

Oh and one piece of advice for going through the series, do not even TRY to work out what the actual date is, you are just going to go crazy. You're going to meet a lot of historical people through the series, but thier life stories are so different, and history has gone such a different that trying to pin down a date is nearly impossible (I've always guessed sometime between 1820 and 1860, but that is just my guess)

HerenIstarion

02-15-2012, 06:51 PM

...and reread George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series. He's now been promoted to be included in the list of my favourite authors. ;)

Ah, that one, regardless of double R in the middle of his name that brings home nice reminiscences, I could not force myself past the chapter the whole lot of them (can't remember the names for the life of me) find direwolf cubs and proclaim these to be tied with the fates of their clan. Just got stuck there and went to read something else instead (It was Space Trilogy of C.S.Lewis IIRC)

Anyway, I hope it was not a total waste of money (as I've got all 5 Kindle editions, again, IIRC, maybe it's four, can't remember whether book 5 was already out by then) and one day, someday, I will turn back to the series and read them and, hopefully, enjoy them

Maybe I was just in no mood for it first time, but it seemed to lack certain knack for me. Though I definitely abstained from watching the movie so far, saving my judgement till I finally get over books (if I do read them after all)

Thinlómien

02-17-2012, 04:46 AM

Ah, that one, regardless of double R in the middle of his name that brings home nice reminiscences, I could not force myself past the chapter the whole lot of them (can't remember the names for the life of me) find direwolf cubs and proclaim these to be tied with the fates of their clan. Just got stuck there and went to read something else instead (It was Space Trilogy of C.S.Lewis IIRC)

Anyway, I hope it was not a total waste of money (as I've got all 5 Kindle editions, again, IIRC, maybe it's four, can't remember whether book 5 was already out by then) and one day, someday, I will turn back to the series and read them and, hopefully, enjoy them

Maybe I was just in no mood for it first time, but it seemed to lack certain knack for me. Though I definitely abstained from watching the movie so far, saving my judgement till I finally get over books (if I do read them after all)If you're suspicious of GRRM just because of this kind of stuff, please go on and read him. Out of all fantasy writers I've read, Martin probably handles prophecies and religion the way I like the most. Stuff works, but it is ambiguous. All the characters/factions interpret omens and prophecies in their own way and it's impossible to say who is right. There are dozens of gods, and it's impossible to judge whether they exist or not, because they kind of are there and kind of not. Characters have prophetic dreams, or maybe you just think they they are prophetic because something that vaguely fits them happened later. And maybe even later happens something else that makes you see the dream or prophecy in a completely different light. And if you keep your eyes open you could probably predict so much stuff based on random dreams and quotes of withc women at markets and who knows what but it's kind of impossible to keep track - but in retrospect it all makes sense. It's very cool.

And yes, Martin is using the over-used connection with wolves, but while the family Stark whose sigil is the direwolf might seem like the central one in the beginning, it eventually spreads out so that they are just one family among others, there are wolves and dragons and lions and fish and eagles and roses and krakens and suns and stags and who knows what kind of epic sigils with the great houses of the kingdoms, and you're not rooting just for the wolf family anymore - or at least that's what happened to most people I know who read the books.

I warmly recommend Martin's novels to everybody who doesn't mind the huge scale of it or the ugly realism (war happens so people die - even major characters, and people are beaten, raped, robbed, tortured, abused, some freeze to death, innocents are slaughtered and so on). Martin writes really well, his characters grow to unforeseen dimensions and picking favourites or taking sides becomes almost impossible as the saga goes on and the writer is always one step ahead of you so you keep picking up your jaw from the floor. Furthermore, the sort of realism I mentioned - even in all its ugliness - is really refreshing in the fantasy genre, and the world is interesting and carefully constructed.

/end rant :D

ps. Oh and one piece of advice for going through the series, do not even TRY to work out what the actual date is, you are just going to go crazy. You're going to meet a lot of historical people through the series, but thier life stories are so different, and history has gone such a different that trying to pin down a date is nearly impossible (I've always guessed sometime between 1820 and 1860, but that is just my guess)Thanks for the advice! Fortunately, although I study history I've always been lousy with dates, and the US history has never been my speciality, so I think I will be able to ignore the temptation to put it too strictly into historical context. ;)

NazgulQueen

03-03-2012, 10:31 PM

Mainly just A Song of Ice and Fire, big fan of George RR Martin. :)

Eruanna

03-13-2012, 03:34 PM

I warmly recommend Martin's novels to everybody who doesn't mind the huge scale of it or the ugly realism (war happens so people die - even major characters, and people are beaten, raped, robbed, tortured, abused, some freeze to death, innocents are slaughtered and so on). Martin writes really well, his characters grow to unforeseen dimensions and picking favourites or taking sides becomes almost impossible as the saga goes on and the writer is always one step ahead of you so you keep picking up your jaw from the floor. Furthermore, the sort of realism I mentioned - even in all its ugliness - is really refreshing in the fantasy genre, and the world is interesting and carefully constructed.

I'm a bit late to the party but I agree entirely, especially with the bit I've put in bold. I don't think I can remember the last time a novel shocked me in this way. I've become too used to plots being predictable!

I've also read the Patrick Rothfuss novels mentioned earlier and thoroughly enjoyed them both.

Estelyn, for what it's worth, I've read all of the Shadowmarch Chronicles. I enjoyed the first two but after my favourite (and in my opinion) the most promising character was killed off, I lost interest a bit. The ending of the final book was also a bit of a trial. Like the ending of the RotK movie it just seemed to go on and on and on...
I actually enjoyed Tad Williams' earlier series 'Memory, Sorrow and Thorn' much more.

I've recently discovered China Mieville. His books are 'fantasy but not as we know it,' so to speak. Definitely weird and thought provoking. His 'The City and The City' made my brain hurt but was a terrific read for all that!

Bom Tombadillo

03-13-2012, 05:47 PM

Hmmmn. I'm always looking for new authors to read, but I rarely get the chance to buy new books (even on the lovely, wonderful, spectacular Kindle), and nearly as rarely to *gasp* visit the library. This means, of course, that I have a great big list of works I would like to read, but a considerably smaller list of ones I actually have read.

I've read the first book in the "A Song of Ice and Fire" series by George R. R. Martin, but not been terribly impressed. I don't dislike it, and think I might have been kept off of it for too long by a comment somewhere (I believe I was linked to it from this very site) that greatly exaggerated, to my mind, the quantity and graphicness (?) of the . . . ugly realism, as Thinlomien puts it? In other words, I really should get the second book, and would recommend the bit of it I know to anybody who is interested in some highly morally grey fiction.

I'm rather impressed by "The Name of the Wind" by Patrick Rothfuss, which I'm currently rereading (rather less so by the sequel, sadly, but that's another subject) - I like the main character a lot, and it's one of the few books I've read that actually manages to put me in a state of suspense as to the outcome.

Aganzir

03-14-2012, 05:05 AM

I've recently discovered China Mieville. His books are 'fantasy but not as we know it,' so to speak. Definitely weird and thought provoking. His 'The City and The City' made my brain hurt but was a terrific read for all that!
I recently reread Perdido Street Station which, though intriguing, isn't one of his best works (at least in my opinion - I mean, it's well written but it just can't hold my attention for very long), and Iron Council, one of my favourite books ever. It's a steampunk western with socialism, imperialism, terrorism, gay rights, and golems.
Before that, I acquainted myself with Embassytown which is his most recent novel, and I really liked it. While Miéville's Bas-Lag novels have steampunk as a common element, Embassytown is good ol' science fiction.

I've read the first book in the "A Song of Ice and Fire" series by George R. R. Martin, but not been terribly impressed.
I wasn't terribly impressed by the first book, either - as a matter of fact, I didn't read A Clash of Kings until a year later, and it was only then I understood why people whose literary judgement I normally trust had been praising the series.

I've also reread Jeff VanderMeer's short story collection The Secret Life, and it was a disappointment given that he was one of my favourite writers as a teenager. Now his (sometimes experimental) style didn't sit well with me at all, and I found most of the stories boring and pointless. I still like his Veniss Underground novel, though.

Eruanna

03-14-2012, 10:42 AM

I recently reread Perdido Street Station which, though intriguing, isn't one of his best works (at least in my opinion - I mean, it's well written but it just can't hold my attention for very long), and Iron Council, one of my favourite books ever. It's a steampunk western with socialism, imperialism, terrorism, gay rights, and golems.
Before that, I acquainted myself with Embassytown which is his most recent novel, and I really liked it. While Miéville's Bas-Lag novels have steampunk as a common element, Embassytown is good ol' science fiction.

I just started to read 'Perdido Street Station' yesterday after finishing 'Kraken' last week. I'm having a similar problem. It's well written and the characters are even weirder to imagine than usual, but I'm finding it a bit harder to immerse myself this time. It's early days yet, so I'll see how I get on.
I'll look out for 'Embassytown' and 'Iron Council', thanks for the recommendations. :)

In an earlier post someone mentioned Joe Abercrombie's 'First Law' series. I loved those, Inquisitor Glokta is one of my favourite characters in a novel....ever! The other stand alone novels set in the same world: 'Best Served Cold' and 'The Heroes' are also very good. He's writing another at the moment....when he can tear himself away from Skyrim; according to his blog!

Gil-Galad

03-14-2012, 08:32 PM

I just finished the fourth book of A Song of Fire and Ice, and as much as I was dreading the fourth book (Because of Hookbill telling me of it). I don't venture into fantasy books that often, being the only other series I have read was Tolkien and Raymond E. Feist.

I absolutely love the series for its realism, and curse the lack of the 5th book anywhere. So I figure when I am in England this summer I will have to pick up a copy.

Aganzir

03-15-2012, 07:42 AM

I just started to read 'Perdido Street Station' yesterday after finishing 'Kraken' last week. I'm having a similar problem. It's well written and the characters are even weirder to imagine than usual, but I'm finding it a bit harder to immerse myself this time.
It's worth finishing, not only because otherwise you won't catch the references in the later books, but in my experience it's overrated.
Also, don't forget to check out The Scar - it's very good too!

I intend to read the Abercrombie series when I have the time (or rather, when I feel like it, because I always have time for reading), but now I have some Gene Wolfe, Sandman comics, and Hungarian folktales on their way from the library.

I absolutely love the series for its realism, and curse the lack of the 5th book anywhere. So I figure when I am in England this summer I will have to pick up a copy.
Oh come on (http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Dragons-Song-Fire-Book/dp/0553801473/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331818626&sr=8-1)! :p

Gil-Galad

03-15-2012, 09:57 AM

Oh come on (http://www.amazon.com/Dance-Dragons-Song-Fire-Book/dp/0553801473/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1331818626&sr=8-1)! :p

Amazon has been weird to me, I did look up the 5th book but at first Amazon told me July 12 2012, then that page which I can get now. Even my local bookstores don't have a copy, and they are all decked out with the Game of Thrones show popularity.

Alfirin

03-15-2012, 11:15 AM

Amazon has been weird to me, I did look up the 5th book but at first Amazon told me July 12 2012, then that page which I can get now. Even my local bookstores don't have a copy, and they are all decked out with the Game of Thrones show popularity.

I saw someone reading a copy on the train 3-4 weeks ago, so it is presumably avaiable somewhere. And it looked like a normal run book, not an advance galley copy.

Lalwendë

03-15-2012, 06:17 PM

Does anyone else absolutely love The Weirdstone of Brisingamen?

Well, davem pointed this out to me earlier. The trilogy is due to be completed this August (http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2012/mar/15/alan-garner-weirdstone-brisingamen-trilogy-boneland?newsfeed=true). I'll be outside the bookshop at 9am for this one, I'm very excited.

I don't agree with Phillip Pullman that Alan Garner is 'better than Tolkien' because he's simply a very different kettle of fish. However, he is comparable to CS Lewis and trumps him on all accounts.

Since I first read the Weirdstone as a child, I've thought of Alderly Edge as a magical place, rather than the exclusive haunt of Man U footballers. And the passage with the tunnel is so vivid I even have dreams about that now.

Anyone else love it?

Galadriel55

03-15-2012, 07:05 PM

A Dance with Dragons is in the local bookstore here. However, with the recent popularity, it costs ridiculous money. And, all the library copies are out (with a line up of about 15 people - which is more than I've seen for HP when it came out). I'm waiting for all the excitement to go down to get a copy.

Galadriel

03-15-2012, 07:55 PM

Eruanna

03-16-2012, 04:01 PM

Does anyone else absolutely love The Weirdstone of Brisingamen?

Me! Me! I have well thumbed copies of The Weirdstone and its sequel 'The Moon of Gomrath' on my bookshelf, and there's a space just crying out for the last part of the trilogy!
Thank you so much for the link...I'm unbelievably excited!!

Lalwendë

03-18-2012, 08:37 AM

Me! Me! I have well thumbed copies of The Weirdstone and its sequel 'The Moon of Gomrath' on my bookshelf, and there's a space just crying out for the last part of the trilogy!
Thank you so much for the link...I'm unbelievably excited!!

I'm reading Weirdstone again now, spurred by the news. My copy is very well read (in the front, it says I bought it in Skipton in 1984 ;)) but I'm bursting with excitement at all the new things I'm picking up reading it now. I've just looked up a bit about Alan Garner and he grew up in Alderley Edge, descended from a family that had lived there for centuries - one of his great grandfathers carved the 'wizard' that's on the rocks in the woods. His family passed down the folktales of the area to him, as they weren't skilled readers, and he wove them into his stories.

There was also something on the Wikipedia entry about his love of language and the local Cheshire dialect (apparently it's possible to read Sir Gawain and the Green Knight in the original, if you know the Cheshire dialect - which is interesting as the 'Green Chapel' isn't very far away). And a lot of the places mentioned are still very much there, such as 'Llyn-dhu' and Radnor Mere, and of course The Wizard pub.

It's also chiming with a lot of the language and stories of the North West that I picked up as a child.

This is a fantastic book. I love it even more than ever. :cool:

Lalwendë

03-19-2012, 05:16 PM

Anyone around here read 'The Hunger Games'? I'm not sure if it's fantasy, but I've been hearing a lot about it, and to be truthful I'm a little sceptical. I mean, girl and boy chosen to kill other children in a dystopian world where adults rule? Let me guess: the girl and the guy will be prolific, and the girl will end up being some kind of 'leader', and she'll never do anything wrong with intent, because she's only ever forced to do bad things, and she and the guy will have some kind of forced romance...

I think I'd better stop. The number of flat protagonists these days are kind of getting to my head. :rolleyes:

I finished Weirdstone yesterday and still being in the frame of mind to devour a book, I picked up a copy of The Hunger Games today. My interest was piqued because it's dystopian SF and I'm always interested in that, so I wanted to see what a 'young adult' novel would make of what sounded like a lift from the plot of Battle Royale.

I've read three-quarters of it since this afternoon, and it's pretty good. There's vivid scene-setting, the characters aren't flat and predictable at all, and the narrator isn't a 'Mary Sue' but has some definite failings and flaws. The whole concept of people forced to fight to the death has now been done a few times, but it still works. It also makes you feel a bit angry/disgusted, which is always a plus point with dystopian stories. Not finished it yet though, and I've read more than enough novels with poor endings lately, so I shall see....;)

I wonder - could you call dystopian SF 'fantasy'? Where does one stop and another begin?

EDIT - finished it now, and even though it was basically Battle Royale for younger readers, it was a decent book. Not sure I want to read the sequels, as I thought it was well rounded off, but I'm sure there would be plenty of things to discuss about it, and I can easily see this one creeping into school reading lists at some point.

Mrs. Boffin

03-25-2012, 01:09 AM

I feel rather daring and frisky replying to this post, but sci fi and fantasy are two of my three favorite fictional genres.

I got through A Feast of Crows or whatever the title was of Martin's 4th book before I finally gave up on the series. While he's created an in-depth, original universe, it just wasn't enough for me. I personally look for characters I can cheer for when I read, and the ones left by the end of the 4th book were either rotten or Too Stupid To Live and I really didn't care about any of them any more.

I do understand the appeal of such an epic work, and the heraldry and family history is fascinating. I guess I just prefer a less sprawling, more focused style.

On to a cheerier subject -- writers I like, lol! Marion Zimmer Bradley's The Mists of Avalon and the Sword and Sorceress anthologies she edited are enjoyable. I also like Orson Scott Card, both his sci fi and his fantasy. Cherryh's Fortress series is on my TBR list, and after reading some of this thread, so is Patrick Rothfuss.

I also enjoyed my daughter's Percy Jackson books. ;)

Galadriel

03-28-2012, 12:26 PM

Galadriel

03-28-2012, 12:29 PM

I finished Weirdstone yesterday and still being in the frame of mind to devour a book, I picked up a copy of The Hunger Games today. My interest was piqued because it's dystopian SF and I'm always interested in that, so I wanted to see what a 'young adult' novel would make of what sounded like a lift from the plot of Battle Royale.

I've read three-quarters of it since this afternoon, and it's pretty good. There's vivid scene-setting, the characters aren't flat and predictable at all, and the narrator isn't a 'Mary Sue' but has some definite failings and flaws. The whole concept of people forced to fight to the death has now been done a few times, but it still works. It also makes you feel a bit angry/disgusted, which is always a plus point with dystopian stories. Not finished it yet though, and I've read more than enough novels with poor endings lately, so I shall see....;)

I wonder - could you call dystopian SF 'fantasy'? Where does one stop and another begin?

EDIT - finished it now, and even though it was basically Battle Royale for younger readers, it was a decent book. Not sure I want to read the sequels, as I thought it was well rounded off, but I'm sure there would be plenty of things to discuss about it, and I can easily see this one creeping into school reading lists at some point.

Still not sure I want to pick it up. There are not any local libraries where I live, so I shall have to buy it - but it will be at the end of a long, long list of books I want to finish first.

Lalwendë

03-28-2012, 01:14 PM

Still not sure I want to pick it up. There are not any local libraries where I live, so I shall have to buy it - but it will be at the end of a long, long list of books I want to finish first.

A cheap second hand copy should be easy to find on teh internets. It's been a very popular book for a long time and on lots of school reading lists too, so I should think there are lots of them in circulation! It's a quick read too ;)

That was Weirdstone...but then I realised you're talking Hunger Games! :D

Well I got mine at the supermarket for £3! Brand new! So try there while it's still a bestseller. It's also a quick read.

Galadriel55

03-28-2012, 04:00 PM

Have you tried Amazon? :P

I got a copy from the library... FINALLY!

Eruanna

03-29-2012, 03:02 PM

Finished 'Perdido Street Station' at the weekend. After a bit of a slow start I actually enjoyed it very much.
Presently reading Gareth Roberts' novelisation of the Doctor Who lost tale 'Shada' from the original script by the great Douglas Adams. It's a bit of a silly romp but as a long time Who fan I'm finding it a lot of fun. Besides, it's the fourth Doctor and Romana so what's not to like!

Galadriel

03-31-2012, 01:21 PM

I got a copy from the library... FINALLY!

*cries* I want a local library! :(

Galadriel

03-31-2012, 01:33 PM

A cheap second hand copy should be easy to find on teh internets. It's been a very popular book for a long time and on lots of school reading lists too, so I should think there are lots of them in circulation! It's a quick read too ;)

That was Weirdstone...but then I realised you're talking Hunger Games! :D

Well I got mine at the supermarket for £3! Brand new! So try there while it's still a bestseller. It's also a quick read.

Decided to get it off Amazon. Luckily I will be able to get it delivered to the UK since I will be going there in some days - if I were to order it here, I would be charged over eight pounds just for delivery!

Lalwendë

03-31-2012, 02:07 PM

Decided to get it off Amazon. Luckily I will be able to get it delivered to the UK since I will be going there in some days - if I were to order it here, I would be charged over eight pounds just for delivery!

Eight pounds?! Do you live out in the wilds like Faroe or Hull or somewhere?

I decided to get the others in the series because I was curious to see what happened, and I've just the final one to finish now. I've been quite pleased with the series really. Too often dystopian novels have no sense of humanity or are so bleak you feel depressed for months afterwards, but not so with these.

Galadriel

04-01-2012, 05:10 AM

Eight pounds?! Do you live out in the wilds like Faroe or Hull or somewhere?

I decided to get the others in the series because I was curious to see what happened, and I've just the final one to finish now. I've been quite pleased with the series really. Too often dystopian novels have no sense of humanity or are so bleak you feel depressed for months afterwards, but not so with these.

No, but you could say I live far, far away. :p

I was looking at some reviews on Amazon, and they said that the series actually lacked humanity, and that the characters appeared somewhat flat and inconsistent with their own personalities. That itself was enough to turn me off again, though the book is lying in my basket...

Lalwendë

04-02-2012, 03:43 PM

No, but you could say I live far, far away. :p

I was looking at some reviews on Amazon, and they said that the series actually lacked humanity, and that the characters appeared somewhat flat and inconsistent with their own personalities. That itself was enough to turn me off again, though the book is lying in my basket...

No, they're not 'flat' at all. One thing you often find in dystopian fiction is that it's all about the situation and characters seem to be only ciphers, especially those who aren't the protagonist. But what I did like about this was that the narrator (it's first person) Katniss is very much human and reacts in a natural way. She is a tough cookie, but questions herself and changes throughout as anyone would. Nor are the other characters 'flat'.

The concept it's based around is inhumane of course, but that's the story, how people react to and deal with an inhumane situation.

Galadriel

04-06-2012, 05:32 AM

No, they're not 'flat' at all. One thing you often find in dystopian fiction is that it's all about the situation and characters seem to be only ciphers, especially those who aren't the protagonist. But what I did like about this was that the narrator (it's first person) Katniss is very much human and reacts in a natural way. She is a tough cookie, but questions herself and changes throughout as anyone would. Nor are the other characters 'flat'.

The concept it's based around is inhumane of course, but that's the story, how people react to and deal with an inhumane situation.

Actually, I've never read dystopian novels. I am not terribly fond of futuristic books/movies - I much prefer stuff that takes me into the past, for some reason.

I *did* buy a book called Duncton Wood - it had some pretty fantastic reviews, and I'm curious to see how it turns out. An epic fantasy with moles as protagonists - intriguing. :smokin:

McCaber

04-09-2012, 03:42 PM

As kludgy as the Wheel of Time got between books 7 and 10, it really picked up towards the end. Now the last book has a release date set for next January and I'm actually excited for it.

Brian Sanderson's done one hell of a job on the last two, and I have every confidence in his ability to finish this one strongly.

Eruanna

04-10-2012, 01:13 PM

Anyone read Kate Griffin's Matthew Swift novels? 'A Madness of Angels' 'The Midnight Mayor' and 'The Neon Court'. The latest one is 'The Minority Council' which I'm just finishing. They're a brilliant read.

Matthew Swift is an 'urban magician' drawing power from the lights, fumes, history and cityscape of London. The books are full of fantastical but entirely believable characters.
Old Father Thames is real, magical power sings through the telephone lines, the dragon emblems of the City of London come into being to protect the city when needed...and sometimes, being dead doesn't mean you can't come back!:cool:

mark12_30

04-11-2012, 06:59 AM

*cries* I want a local library! :(

Tirion has several magnificent libraries. And you can always ask Pengolodh for a review you can really trust. And if he doesn't know the tale, depending on the age of the tale, either it isn't worth knowing, or he'll want to hear it himself.

Consider this a backhand way of saying great "location" and an even better sig, derry dol.

Bom Tombadillo

04-11-2012, 07:57 AM

Matthew Swift sounds fascinating. Alas, my local library system probably doesn't have it, and I'm reluctant to actually spend any significant amount of money on books unless I just have to have them.

Which reminds me - has anybody read a series called The Dresden Files, by Jim Butcher? I've heard fantastic things about it (at least, from book 3 onwards), but the aforementioned reluctance to spend money keeps nagging at me.

And lastly, I got the second book in A Song of Ice and Fire. Maybe it's just that I'm more familiar with the characters and thus less horribly confused about who's who, but this one seems better somehow - though I can't quite put my finger on why. In any case, I'm loving it (especially with a thousand-and-some pages to read . . . *drool*).

McCaber

04-11-2012, 10:41 AM

Which reminds me - has anybody read a series called The Dresden Files, by Jim Butcher? I've heard fantastic things about it (at least, from book 3 onwards), but the aforementioned reluctance to spend money keeps nagging at me.
They're definitely not high literature, but as far as fun action fantasy goes you could do a lot worse. I really enjoyed them.

Bom Tombadillo

04-11-2012, 06:32 PM

They're definitely not high literature, but as far as fun action fantasy goes you could do a lot worse. I really enjoyed them.

That's fine, since I'm not looking for high literature (well, depending on your definition of such). :) I guess I'll have to get them.

MCRmyGirl4eva

05-04-2012, 07:06 AM

I read lots of fantasy... I love it.

The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe (Couldn't stand the others)
His Dark Materials
Inheritance Cycle
Harry Potter
Artemis Fowl
Recently, Earthsea novels

There's way more, but off the top of my head I can't think of them.

Galadriel55

06-03-2012, 12:36 PM

Lalwendë

06-03-2012, 12:56 PM

I've finished a trilogy called His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman, which is made up of The Golden Compass, The Subtle Knife, and The Amber Spyglass. It's intriguing to read if only because of its philosophy about existence. I got the books from my sister who liked them because of the adventure. And my mother, who read the first one, liked it because of the complexity and the language.

I love this trilogy to bits. Pullman is one of my very favourite writers.

Now, where do you want to begin with discussing these? ;) They have a fan forums just like this one, there's so much to talk about and I've got a number of books about them too. I even went to find Lyra's Bench in Oxford Botanical Gardens. There's so much to delve into - Blake, Milton, the Bible, the science and physics etc.

The first one is called Northern Lights in the UK, incidentally, so if I ever refer to that then I'm not talking about a completely different book!

Galadriel55

06-03-2012, 08:06 PM

The thing I forgot to include in my previous post is the number of references to history, various mythology (and mythology that is evidently made up, as I can't find a parallel), linguistics, and just the breadth of it all. Man, the trilogy is vast in its cultural aspects! And the other things - as you say, Lal, there is just so much to delve into!

And when I read the first book, I thought it was full of intrigue, philosophy, and complexity. When I read the second, I realised that the first was just a little warm up. It's just mind-blowing!

MCRmyGirl4eva

06-04-2012, 05:35 AM

I've finished a trilogy called His Dark Materials by Philip Pullman, which is made up of The Golden Compass, The Subtle Knife, and The Amber Spyglass. It's intriguing to read if only because of its philosophy about existence. I got the books from my sister who liked them because of the adventure. And my mother, who read the first one, liked it because of the complexity and the language.

I loved the trilogy, but I haven't read it in a long while because they're down in the storage area. I mean, they were really good but I can't constantly read them. And, I'm like the only person I know who's actually read the book, and I've never seen the movies. (The Subtle Knife was my favorite of the three.) :)

Lalwendë

06-04-2012, 09:29 AM

I think my favourite is the first one (Northern Lights in the UK), because the story moves along so quickly and there are some incredibly tense moments. I love the Gyptians because many of my own ancestors were canal boatmen and lived that lifestyle (without daemons of course ;)), but also Lyra's friendships are beautifully drawn. I also like the whole alternate universe Oxford and London. And Lyra's charistmatic but terrifying parents.

Then as the trilogy moves on, it all gets so much deeper. I think one of the greatest things about it, aside from it being a tremendous adventure featuring a girl for once, is it really stirs your interest in the works that inspired it, much as Lord of the Rings does.

One of the 'guides' available which help explain the books and their sources (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philip-Pullmans-Materials-Guides-Reference/dp/1843539209/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1338823883&sr=1-1), I can really recommend getting one of these if you see them cheap, this one especially. It's also fun to go to Oxford and find the landmarks like Lyra's bench and the Pitt Rivers museum. I'd really like to visit the real Svalbard too, but it's maybe one for when I've won the lottery ;)

Gwathagor

06-04-2012, 10:00 AM

Northern Lights/Golden Compass was brilliant, but I found the other two preachy.

Guinevere

06-04-2012, 10:37 AM

I read Pullman's "his dark materials" trilogy in 2007, originally just to form an opinion on his writing, because of his criticism of LotR. In several threads here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=14359&highlight=Pullman) and here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=13038&highlight=Dark+Materials) it was mentioned how in public interviews he called LotR "just fancy spun candy with no substance to it", "a trivial book" "fundamentally an infantile book". That really got my hackles up, as you can imagine!!

To do Pullman justice, I found that the books were very thrilling to read, I really liked the first volume a lot. But the farther I got, the less convincing I found it and I was disappointed by the end. It was a good read, but I don't feel the need to go back and reread them, as with Tolkien's works.

Lalwendë

06-04-2012, 12:38 PM

I've decided to just ignore what he says about Tolkien, it's his 'spin'. And he's a very opinionated man so he says controversial things. Lots of the British intelligentsia revile Tolkien - I think it's best to ignore what they say on the subject. His writing speaks for itself though, and it's amazing. To write what are basically books for children and young people which are so multi-layered and complex is a marvellous thing. His work is completely unpatronising, something which I found limits me from enjoying CS Lewis (I do tend to agree with him on Lewis), and it isn't afraid to be difficult.

The books will probably have continued appeal as there's a generation now growing up watching Doctor Who which is also not afraid to be difficult and throw bags of science and philosophy into the fun.

I find they get better with re-reading. Which tempts me to do this all over again and thus add to the stack of things I want to plough through this summer...:(

Gwathagor

06-04-2012, 01:07 PM

Lalwendë

06-04-2012, 03:58 PM

That's interesting; I feel precisely the opposite about Lewis and Pullman. C.S. has always seemed to me fatherly rather than patronizing, whereas Pullman comes across as egotistical and often just plain mean-spirited.

I agree with you speaking about him as a person, he's pretty aggressive in his arguments, though that's par for the course in the UK these days, and he's mild compared to most of the TV pundits. And CS Lewis was a very pleasant person apparently (even John Betjeman might admit that, and they were famous enemies ;)).

But I could never get on with Narnia which is a huge shame as it's full of magical stuff and I've loved the films. Maybe it was my age when I tried to read it for the first time. I was 12 and already onto adults' fiction so it might have been lost on me. I always feel a bit sad about it really.

Galadriel55

06-04-2012, 06:49 PM

But I could never get on with Narnia which is a huge shame as it's full of magical stuff and I've loved the films. Maybe it was my age when I tried to read it for the first time. I was 12 and already onto adults' fiction so it might have been lost on me. I always feel a bit sad about it really.

That's interesting. My experience went the opposite way: at first I way drawn to the magic and adventure, then I sort of cooled off because it was a bit too childish, but now I have a kind of nostalgic-y feeling about that childish tone and I almost like and appreciate it more now than I did at first.

To write what are basically books for children and young people which are so multi-layered and complex is a marvellous thing. His work is completely unpatronising, something which I found limits me from enjoying CS Lewis (I do tend to agree with him on Lewis), and it isn't afraid to be difficult.

Difficult. That summs it up fairly well, doesn't it?

Glorthelion

06-05-2012, 04:56 AM

Harry Potter series
The Chronicles of Narnia series
Deltora quest
Rowan of Rin
Ranger's apprentice

I must say None of the fantasy series mentioned above (save Harry Potter) were close to the high standards of writing set by Tolkien.

Glorthelion

Lalwendë

06-05-2012, 06:28 AM

That's interesting. My experience went the opposite way: at first I way drawn to the magic and adventure, then I sort of cooled off because it was a bit too childish, but now I have a kind of nostalgic-y feeling about that childish tone and I almost like and appreciate it more now than I did at first.

If the little chap ever wants them reading to him then I suppose I might get another go at them. And I'd rather he attempted them before reading anything by Tolkien, because I think this also spoiled them for me. After reading Lord of the Rings when I was 12, I've been an extremely critical reader of other fantasy works. In fact in the immediate aftermath, the one fantasy epic which did manage to grab me was Gormenghast by Mervyn Peake.

Since then, I've enjoyed other fantasy series and novels, notably His Dark Materials, A Song of Ice and Fire, Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell, Harry Potter (I have a deep admiration for JK Rowling as a person) and Earth's Children. I've never really got on with Narnia, Discworld or Shannara - for example. Maybe it's just personal taste...

Galadriel

06-18-2012, 07:20 AM

Galadriel55

06-18-2012, 07:46 AM

I thoroughly disliked Pullman's book. The writing was good but I felt the characters were flat and cliched. I don't think he's one to talk about anyone's book being 'fancy spun candy with no substance to it'. His own work, to me, seemed like utter drivel. It was incredibly childish, IMHO.

You know, that's what I thought at first - that his characters were rather flat and childishly-written. But then I found that it's almost like Pullman did that on purpose, so that you can read it on different levels - you can see or not see, in a sense.

I only read the books because my sister was reading them, and I did not expect the characters to be anything but childishly done and flat (since they are the kind my sister usually resonates to the most - as you can tell I do not approve of her reading list, but at least she reads something), but then I realised that if I don't read it with the assumption that they are flat they wouldn't be.

I mean, I'm not crazy about the series ;), but I liked it better than, say, the inevitable example of Harry Potter - much much better, in fact.

And I have to praise Pullman for the breadth of his knowledge and references - science, linguistics (both within English and in other languages), culture, and etc - in addition to the epic plot.

I know it's not the best way of putting it in words, but I usually measure books in breadth and depth. A book that is both deep and broad is something I really really like. There are books that are one but not the other, that I sometimes like. And there are those that are neither - which I don't know how anyone could like. Romances tend to be deep but narrower. Adventure stories (like, in this case, His Dark Materials) tend to be broad but seldom are as deep. And then it's a question of ballance and what you care about.

Books like Tolkien's are pretty rare. You can dig in any direction and you unearth more and more and more.

Galadriel

06-19-2012, 10:53 AM

I mean, I'm not crazy about the series ;), but I liked it better than, say, the inevitable example of Harry Potter - much much better, in fact.

Books like Tolkien's are pretty rare. You can dig in any direction and you unearth more and more and more.

Truly? I quite liked the middle three books of HP. I mean, yeah, it had gaping plot-holes, but I had to admire Rowling's flair for creating a magical atmosphere. I would have rather loved it if she had put in more detail. :(

That, of course, is true. XD I keep trying to compare fantasy books to LotR, and so far most of them have been at least somewhat disappointing. Game of Thrones was the only one, for me, that came close to the standards I set. :D

Galadriel55

06-19-2012, 10:56 AM

That, of course, is true. XD I keep trying to compare fantasy books to LotR, and so far most of them have been at least somewhat disappointing. Game of Thrones was the only one, for me, that came close to the standards I set. :D

For me Game of Thrones was like a mix between LOTR and HP - it had some of the depth of LOTR and addictiveness of HP. :D

Galadriel

06-22-2012, 04:33 PM

For me Game of Thrones was like a mix between LOTR and HP - it had some of the depth of LOTR and addictiveness of HP. :D

Good way of putting it. :) Though I didn't find HP 'addicting', I certainly found it entertaining. Well. At least books 3, 4 and 5. :P The others didn't appeal to me much.

Galadriel55

06-22-2012, 05:21 PM

Good way of putting it. :) Though I didn't find HP 'addicting', I certainly found it entertaining. Well. At least books 3, 4 and 5. :P The others didn't appeal to me much.

I found HP addicting because I couldn't put it down while I read it, but when reflecting on it later I wondered if it was worth reading. It is certainly entertaining while it's new. It has a way of making you read on.

I agree with you on books 3, 4, and 5. The first book was simple and a bit too straight-forward, at least compared with the rest, as first books of series are wont to be (compare: Game of Thrones, The Golden Compass/The Northern Lights). The second was plain boring. The sixth was quite overdone, and the seventh brought all the worst qualities to the highest level. The middle ones were the best.

You know, sometimes I want to ask Rowling if in our days one absolutely cannot write a book without any swearing in it. She made it until the end of book 7, but then what happened?... It's not like the swearing shows any insights into character, or society, or plot, or anything else.

She is good at making you wonder - at first. But then she is kind of, well, not obvious, but she does like to reuse her characters, so the reader knows much more than the people inside the book. For example, the reader can logically figure out that she wouldn't bring in a new character with the initials R.A.B in the last book, therefore it has to be someone mentioned earlier, and there is only one such person. She needs to read a bit more Sherlock Holmes. :D

Lalwendë

06-24-2012, 12:32 PM

I thoroughly disliked Pullman's book. The writing was good but I felt the characters were flat and cliched. I don't think he's one to talk about anyone's book being 'fancy spun candy with no substance to it'. His own work, to me, seemed like utter drivel. It was incredibly childish, IMHO.

I found the characters quite rich and interesting - they don't stay in one state but change throughout in unexpected ways, and Lyra is pretty unusual for a female protagonist, in that she's certainly no Mary Sue. She's full of flaws, and comes across like a real child rather than a mere character. The daemons even had excellent characterisation - to the extent that I'm now a bit scared of little monkeys. And I've found HDM to be as good a source for 'digging' as Tolkien is, though it's in completely different directions. If Pullman didn't note the deeper substance behind Tolkien's work then it's probably that he didn't care for the source material.

Anyway, I've just finished one of Alan Garner's novels for adults, and it was a perfect lesson in how less is more. Thursbitch* comes in at well under 200 pages, and mostly dialogue, it's worlds apart to anything by Tolkien but I'm a bit stunned by it, it's subtle, quite frightening, and as rich in meaning (especially linguistically) as Tolkien. He was inspired by the name thursbitch itself (meaning 'demon valley' - sharing the same roots as how Grendel is named in Beowulf), which is an abandoned farm in a hidden Cheshire valley, and by a stone which records the mysterious death of a local packhorse man. The novel imagines who this man was and the story interweaves with the wanderings of a modern man and woman in the same valley, which is described as a sentient landscape and the story never leaves the locale, and is structured like a mobius strip.

As a warning - I don't think this one is a young persons' book whatsoever (unless they are broad minded and very capable readers) as it has lots of weird magic and is written in a northern dialect, but I can't recommend it enough for anyone interested in the weirder side of British history and language or who wants to see how a fantastical story can work so well when presented in a completely different form to the norm. Garner seems to have taken up the issue of landscape and language that Tolkien left and has wandered off with it.

I am so looking forwards to Bonelands, which is supposed to come out this year and promises to finish off the story he started back in 1960 with the Weirdstone of Brisingamen.

*Sorry if that needs editing here!

Estelyn Telcontar

06-29-2012, 06:47 AM

I've never considered myself an avid reader of fantasy books, though I've read a number of them that were recommended to me. When I read the blog of an author whose books I devoured and will most certaily reread (Patrick Rothfuss, The Kingkiller Chronicles), I decided to try one of the book series on his list. It's the Mistborn trilogy, by Brandon Sanderson. I'm not finished with the third book yet, but I am enjoying the story tremendously!

The author takes a different twist on building his world, with a unique system of magic and some observant writing on the problems of achieving goals and getting into more difficulties afterwards. The plot is complex, the characters fascinating, and the thoughts on political systems and religion interesting. Above all, there's nothing there that copies Tolkien - something I appreciate!

I'll check in again when I finish the third volume (yes, the books are voluminous, but that's an advantage as far as I'm concerned!)...

Galadriel55

07-07-2012, 07:16 PM

I'm not sure if it counts as fantasy, or more of a history fiction genre, or just adventure, or a mix of all of them. I don't know if it's history enough to be one, or myth enough to be another.

Anyways, I would like to recommend to anyone the Merlin trilogy by Mary Stewart (The Crystal Cave, The Hollow Hills, and The Last Enchantment). The language is beautiful, and has some of Tolkien's style - just some, but it's rich in its own fashion. Despite the never-ending plots/mysteries/adventures, Stewart leaves plenty room to describe the scenery, the landscape, the people, and everything around. She paces her books well, not rushing ahead with the plot in favour of the abovementioned little details, but not dragging it out too much.

Lalwendë

07-07-2012, 07:21 PM

I read those years and years ago, I was probably about 15 or so. And I'm tempted to read them again because yes, they are superb.

I think they count, they appeal to Tolkien fans! ;)

Galadriel55

07-07-2012, 07:32 PM

I read those years and years ago, I was probably about 15 or so. And I'm tempted to read them again because yes, they are superb.

I'm beginning to see a pattern emerge. Whenever I post a recommendation about a book I am reading or have just finished, you reply saying that you too have read it and liked it. :eek::D

Lalwendë

07-08-2012, 09:43 AM

I'm beginning to see a pattern emerge. Whenever I post a recommendation about a book I am reading or have just finished, you reply saying that you too have read it and liked it. :eek::D

What can I say? We clearly obviously both have superb taste :D

Now, have you got the new Terry Pratchett one? The Long Earth. It's not a Discworld novel (I have problems with Discworld...) and it's amazing!

Estelyn Telcontar

07-08-2012, 12:01 PM

Guinevere

07-08-2012, 01:26 PM

Anyways, I would like to recommend to anyone the Merlin trilogy by Mary Stewart (The Crystal Cave, The Hollow Hills, and The Last Enchantment).

Oh, I love Mary Stewart's Merlin series (and most of her other books) too. I read those in the seventies when I had no idea about Tolkien yet!

Do you happen to know Gillian Bradshaw's trilogy "Hawk of May", "Kingdom of Summer", "In Winter's Shadow"? I loved this Arthurian fiction, which also has some fantasy elements.

Lalwendë

07-09-2012, 03:23 PM

Have you finished reading The Long Earth, Lal? Please do give a brief report! I'm contemplating getting it and want to know if it's re-readable. One-time reads usually end up being lent from the library...

Not yet, because I've been so busy with kid stuff and weather geekery, but I will do soon! So far, it's rather good. :cool:

Galadriel55

07-09-2012, 06:40 PM

I haven't read much of Terry Pratchett. Only one or two chapters from The Amazing Maurice, I think. It was my sister's book anyways, and it didn't catch on with me, so I did not pursue other Pratchett books - or finish that one.

Maybe it's just that I have an issue with reading comedy. It never catches with me for some reason. I am more amused at a random joke stuck in the middle of a serious novel that at a whole heap of comedies. The last one I read made me at most feel bad for the poor characters who got themselves stuck at the most unlikely places and all that (when my mother read the book at my age she said she was rolling on the floor from laughter). Since, from what I gather about him, Pratchett writes half-comedy half-fantasy books, I think the comedy part killed it for me.

dreeness

07-10-2012, 12:41 AM

Just a few that I can think of:

Robert Holdstock's Mythago Wood books

Robert Aickman's stories

William Hope Hodgson's stories (particularly the "Carnacki" series)
like this one:

The Whistling Room (http://gaslight.mtroyal.ca/carnack3.htm)

Arthur Machen's stories (especially the "Turanian" stories)
like this one:

The Shining Pyramid (http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/m/machen/arthur/shining-pyramid/chapter1.html)

MCRmyGirl4eva

07-10-2012, 02:55 PM

Percy Jackson and the Olympians
The Heroes of Olympus

^ Don't remember if I put these...

Also, the last Artemis Fowl book came out today

Ninde Lossehelin

08-05-2012, 05:36 PM

For Fantasy books its really just JRR Tolkien's works but i have read the chronicles of narnia the lion the witch and the wardrobe.

Alcidas

08-06-2012, 04:38 AM

Elfquest.
Conan the Barbarian.
Kushiel's Dart (that one only because I had been told that there were "juicy" bits...) :p

Unforgiven

10-05-2012, 11:54 AM

01. ERBorroughs
02. CSLewis
03. JRRTolkien
04. REHoward
05. ARaymond
06. IAsimov
07. ACClarke
08. RJordan
09. TPrattchet
10. DGemmell

Pity, most of them are no more. :(
And the new writers can't seem to hold a candle to these supernovas.

Nolwë_Namiel

10-07-2012, 03:24 PM

I read a lot of fantasy. Most recently I've enjoyed the Paladins series by David Dalglish.

I am also a fan of Steven Brust and Stephen R. Donaldson.

Belegorn

10-07-2012, 03:59 PM

Weaveworld by Clive Barker
Harry Potter series by J.K. Rowling
The Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice
A Wrinkle in Time by the recently deceased Madeleine L'Engle
The Arabian Nights the Mahdi manuscript

Thinlómien

10-16-2012, 03:41 PM

Has anyone else read the Acacia trilogy (The War with the Mein, The Other Lands, The Sacred Band) by David Anthony Durham? I read it this summer/autumn and I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it. Durham follows, in a way, in George R.R. Martin's footsteps: epic high fantasy peppered with sometimes ugly realism and a world where nothing is black-and-white.

I was fascinated with Durham's frequent balancing between traditional fantasy clichés and more unconventional ideas - the first book is a story of the old emperor's four children, two girls and two boys, all of whom have a different destiny when their father is assassinated and they have to regain the throne. Yawn? Well then, what if I told you the empire was founded on slave trade and drugging their own people with an opium-like substance? Much more intriguing, says I. Durham's world is populated with humans and it has a very historical feel. There are fantasy creatures, but they are either just animals that don't exist in our world, or then monsters created by misuse of magic. Magic itself is rare but it does play a key role in the trilogy, as do human souls and boundaries between life and death.

It was also very nice to read basic entertaining high fantasy which is not a tad sexist (the female characters are just as important and active as the male characters, and none of them fall into the marysue category, or maybe a few, but the male characters are just as garysues!), has homosexual heros and heroines as well as stuff like communists opposing the monarchy (!!! that was totally unexpected and funny, and they were not any better or worse people than the main guys) and preaches co-operation, tolerance and trust in other people over other things (okay, to be fair, these are pretty common themes/values in fantasy, but it still makes me happy).

All in all, Durham writes more contemporary, liberal and realistic fantasy than many fantasy authors who seem still to live a bit in the past and harbor some sort of macho hero mythology. It doesn't prevent him from writing an intriguing and entertaining traditional epic fantasy plot (his twists and turns kept surprising me all the time) and having wonderful heroes you can root for and baddies you can dislike with all your heart. Also, Durham's world seems pretty real and thoroughly built, which is always cool.

I had a few grievances with the books too, but all in all I was impressed. I would warmly recommend the Acacia trilogy to anyone who wants something refreshing and a bit but not too much different in their epic fantasy diet. (And apparently I'm not alone in my appreciation - I heard that Durham's sales went up when George R.R. Martin praised him recently. So all Martin fans, here's something you might want to try. ;))

Aganzir

10-19-2012, 12:25 PM

I just finished my third reread of K.J. Bishop's The Etched City. It's magical. I know I've praised it before on this very thread, but I've got to do it again. Read it.
http://www.kjbishop.net/bib/tec/EC_cover.jpg

Lalwendë

10-20-2012, 01:29 PM

It's not fantasy but it's one of the most geek-friendly books I've read in a long time - Ready Player One by Ernest Cline.

It's set in 2044 and the world is a rotten place. The narrator is a 17 year old lad who is addicted (like almost everyone else) to a virtual reality 'world' (more of a 'verse) called the Oasis. He even plugs in to go to school. He's also a huge geek hunting an Easter Egg hidden by one of the creators (another geek, and fan of 80s pop culture), because finding it means winning the billions he left in his will. It's all about gaming: online gaming; D&D; arcade games etc. And stuffed full of references to: Tolkien; Star Wars; Firefly; Doctor Who; John Hughes films; Rush etc. And has quite a lot to say about online friendships and what happens when people meet in real life.

Give this one a bash. It's good fun.

Glorthelion

12-09-2012, 10:26 PM

I tried reading [B]Eye of the world[B] by Robert Jordan. I didn't last the first chapter. My book savvy friends recommended the series. It has to be a rip-off of Tolkien. I might give it another go in the future.

Thinlómien

12-17-2012, 11:06 AM

Since the year is nearing its end, why not make a list, everyone? Makes for a nice recommendation list to anyone looking for holiday entertainment.

Here's my list (in no particular order)

1. Under Heaven by Guy Gavriel Kay
An alternative history epic set in medieval (?) China. Political plotting, poetry, spirits of the dead and tragic love stories. I also warmly recommend everything else by Kay, this is just his newest book.

2. The Acacia trilogy by David Anthony Durham
More in this (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=675531&postcount=964)post.

3. Cloud Atlas by David Mitchell
Not sure if this one counts, but it's an epic parade of different literary genres, often bordering on science fiction and connected by a sort of thread of karma or rebirths. You can't explain this book, you have to read it.

4. The Hunger Games by Suzanne Collins
A very catchy and entertaining story and a grisly dystopy at the same time. If you've seen the movie, you don't really have to read the book though, they are 95% similar (the book just makes a little more sense).

5. Ragnarok by A.S. Byatt
A compact and a very beautifully written retelling of the Northern mythology with unavoidable allusions to WWII and today's world.

I just realised I've read very little fantasy/science fiction this year. Weird. Also by the way (since I've been rereading that), for anyone out there who hasn't read George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire series or seen the HBO series, I can say once again: you are missing something awesome. I can also recommend The Legend of Sigurd and Gudrún to everyone who enjoys his/her mythology.

Now it's your turn. ;)

elvet

12-26-2012, 07:54 AM

I'm a big time fantasy reader, and have just lately been branching out into SF. I used to read mysteries when I was younger and still enjoy the odd one. For those of you on http://www.goodreads.com/ my user name is the same as here.
Favorite Fantasy authors:
Joe Abercrombie
Steven Erikson
G.R.R. Martin
Guy Gavriel Kay
Michelle Sagara West

My 2012 five star books on Goodreads:
Hydrogen Sonata by Ian M. Banks
The Forge of Darkness by Steven Erikson
Sharps by K.J. Parker
Skirmish by Michelle Sagara West
King of Thorns by Mark Lawrence
Caliban's War by James Corey
Long Price Quartet (4 book series) by Daniel Abraham

Sapphire_Flame

01-02-2013, 10:47 PM

Emerging from a lengthy absence to splutter indignantly over the lack of Brandon Sanderson in this thread. (What, three mentions so far?) His books are amazing! They're wonderfully thought-out and don't just "rearrange the furniture in Tolkien's attic," to quote Mr. Gaiman. The characters are well-rounded, the settings are unique and intriguing, and the magic systems are just short of jaw-dropping. Come on, guys, please go check out Mr. Sanderson's work! One of his novels is even readable for free on his website!

*sigh*

Well, since there's been a call for end of the year recommendations, I'll go ahead and list my top five (aside from Tolkien, which I'll assume we've all read. ;) )

1) Brandon Sanderson - Just...everything he's written. I'm not joking.

2) David Eddings - The Elenium trilogy is the best, but I'll always love the Belgariad too.

3) Brandon Mull - The Fablehaven series. Yes, it's for 10-12-year-olds, but it's clever, fun writing, and I'm always in favor of clever, fun writing.

4) H.P. Lovecraft - Pretty much everything here, too, but I'll give a particular nod for "The Shadow Over Innsmouth" and "Pickman's Model".

5) Howard Andrew Jones - The Desert of Souls, which is a great Arabian Nights-esque sword-and-sorcery novel. The sequel's just come out too, and I'm hoping it will be just as good.

Good reading, everyone!

Galadriel55

01-11-2013, 09:01 PM

My sister and I have a system of book exchange. I read history fiction and pass it down to her. She reads fantasy and passes it down to me.

So the last book that she passed down is Plain Kate by Erin Bow. It is about a girl who has to sell her shadow to a witch in exchange for her heart's wish, but then she realizes that there's more to it... and on it goes.

Plot-wise, very interesting and moving tale. Makes you think. And it's very, what's the word, sincere. The only part that I'm picky about is the last sentence, but then I'm always picky about that and this one is actually not so bad.

Language-wise, though, it's a bit plain. More of a children's book. I think it would have been better if it was more complex in terms of language.

Also, I dislike the author's use of Russian names. But that's a touchy subject for me, and I won't get deeper into it, since other than "no, that's not how it's supposed to be!" it's not a big deal. After all, it's a fantasy novel and it doesn't really matter what language names are taken from.

I think it's still an interesting book, the awesomeness of the plot and the concept just outweighs the rest of it.

Zigûr

01-12-2013, 08:08 AM

I read a lot of Fantasy growing up (due to wanting "more like Tolkien"), especially (gasp) David Eddings and Terry Pratchett (although I'm not sure if he counts) but these days I read very little in the genre. I've invested so much time and effort into The Wheel of Time that I intend to read the recently-published final instalment at some point but really the only currently ongoing/modern Fantasy which interests me is Patrick Rothfuss' Kingkiller Chronicle, which is interesting enough. I found Brandon Sanderson's much-lauded The Way of Kings to be very boring and after reading A Game of Thrones I had no interest in continuing the series any further. I found myself unable to complete Scott Lynch's The Lies of Locke Lamora.
That being said I grew up as part of the original Harry Potter generation and those books will always be extremely dear to my heart. I also quite enjoyed Titus Groan if that counts. I'm also quite keen on classic science-fiction such as Asimov, Clarke and Philip K. Dick. Otherwise I'm pretty dispirited by modern Fantasy, and mostly read "literature" for desperate want of a better word (what is Fantasy but "literature" set in imaginary worlds?) - I'm currently awash in Moby-Dick. I'm particularly fond of Modernism, Hemingway especially. I'm afraid personally for me in terms of Fantasy that Professor Tolkien's work sets the bar much too high - his timeless and elegant prose style, his level of detail and invention and his enormous thematic applicability give something to me that other Fantasy authors never have. There's something I find intensely satisfying about old-fashioned prose in particular, which I think is one of the reasons I enjoy, along with Professor Tolkien, authors such as H.P. Lovecraft and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle.

Thinlómien

01-20-2013, 04:30 PM

Has anyone read the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind? I'm about 150 pages to the first pages and enjoying it tremenduously taking into account that it is a story of a guy called Richard who gets a magic sword and has to save the world...

Ardent

01-20-2013, 05:22 PM

Have you finished reading The Long Earth, Lal? Please do give a brief report! I'm contemplating getting it and want to know if it's re-readable. One-time reads usually end up being lent from the library...

I've read all of Sir Pratchett's work at least once and The Long Earth has become my current favourite. I've read it twice already and can't wait for the sequel. The book does stand alone but has several themes which could go in various directions. In fact there is so much in it it has the potential of becoming a genre every bit as divers as the Diskworld series, though that may require more time than Terry has... :(

The primary theme is that of the opening of a seemingly unlimited frontier in the form of parallel worlds. The main character 'boldy goes' from world to world, encountering variations of earth, from slight to extreme, plus adventurers and settlers who have moved to a few of them.
There are similar themes dealt with in sci-fi series like 'Sliders' or some 'Star Trek' episodes, but the technology for 'stepping' between worlds is made available to everyone. Also it differs from other parallel world/time-line tales in that no humans are found on any but our earth: O brave new worlds that have no people in them!

Ardent

01-26-2013, 01:00 PM

Anyone else here into Babylon 5? I know it's primarily a TV series, though there are books as well, but it has so many themes in common with LotR and many ideas directly drawn from it. Perhaps it may warrant a thread of its own?

Estelyn Telcontar

01-26-2013, 03:54 PM

*raises hand, waving enthusiastically*

I'm a big fan of B5! I remember starting a thread on comparisons - here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?p=626955#post626955) it is!

edit: Here is an article on the subject (among other influences): B5 influences (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_5_influences)

And another (http://de-vagaesemhybrazil.blogspot.de/2008/09/ode-to-babylon-5-or-what-atheist-taught.html).

Pellanarién Aldarion

01-30-2013, 10:26 PM

I love a lot of fantasy and science fiction authers and books. I haven't found too many authers in the last few years to interest me much. I deffinatly prefer late 19th and 20th century literature to the 21st. A few that stand out in my memmories are:

Mercadies Lackey and her Chrome Cycle series. I remember reading the back of the second book before I found the first, all I got was, "Hot Elves, Fast cars and Kidnapped Kids." I was sold. I think there is 10 or so books to the series.

Barbara Hambley is another I love and her "Dog Wizard" Series. I gound the first book 'Silent Tower' in my freshman year of highschool and the second book 'Silicon Mage' a few days after that. I found the third book 8yrs later in a used book store. So worth the wait.

Terry Brooks and the Magic Kingdom Series is another favorite sries I like. I just think having a slightly off wizard as one of your advisors is too funny.

Also anything Norse or Celtic Mythology. I know its not really fantasy but its myth and its awsome fantasy to me. :D

Galadriel55

02-06-2013, 04:05 PM

Recently finished a book called Night Circus, which I thought was written by a Downer (but it isn't; it would have been fun if it was, though, because in the book there is a fan club society thing that's pretty similar to the Downs and the Tolkien Smials). Basically two people are chosen to play what is called the game, and they have to outdo each other in their "magic" abilities, and both do so through the circus. And when they both want to forfeit, they realize they can't because they are bound to it and because too much depends on their involvement in the circus. It was a fun read, though the chronology sometimes got confusing.

Aganzir

06-10-2013, 11:56 AM

At the moment I'm really excited about Gail Carriger's Parasol Protectorate series. It's got a steampunk Victorian England inhabited by werewolves, vampires, ghosts, and Alexia Tarabotti who has no soul and is thus able to temporarily negate supernatural powers by touch. And even though the setting sounds like a cliche, the series is refreshing and awesome and cheeky and sexy and very well-written, and women and sexual minorities are well represented, which makes your friendly neighbourhood Breelander (the Shire folk did call them queer, didn't they?) very happy.

Galadriel55

06-10-2013, 06:41 PM

I read City of Bones for my school's book club, and, honestly - don't bother with it if you see it. It's Harry Potter with different names. Actually, it's so much like Harry Potter that Luke reminded me of Lupin even before it was discovered that he's a werewolf. And HP at least has names that fit the book. CoB is pretty much random. >< I will, however, finish the series over the summer just for the sake of finishing.

Nerwen

06-10-2013, 08:26 PM

I read City of Bones for my school's book club, and, honestly - don't bother with it if you see it. It's Harry Potter with different names.
Well Cassandra Claire, or Clare, or whatever she calls herself these days, was a rather (in)famous HP fanfic writer back in the day, so that doesn’t exactly surprise me.

Elyna of Rivendell

08-22-2013, 12:25 AM

Lumatere Chronicles-by Melina Marchetta (slightly more adult than things i usually read...):D
Shannara Series-by Terry Brooks
The Belgariad Series and the Mallorean Series-by David Eddings
Wyrmeweald Series-by Paul Stewart and Chris Riddell
Inheritance Cycle-Christopher Paolini
The Wheel of Time Series- Robert Jordan (Im only up to 4 out of 14 but I'll get there!) :)

Yregwyn

07-10-2014, 04:26 PM

Sword of Truth series is one of my favorites, read "Wizards First Rule" and tell me that you dont want to start on "Stone of Tears" asap. Also The codex Alera is very good, i really really liked that series. Warhammer Fantasy has great Elfs and Dwarfs, (fantasy mind you i cant do 40k) Gotrek and Felix is good, i like the Nathan long books better then the William King ones. Nathan is more detailed in his writing. I also love Drizzt, he may very well be my favorite character of all time. Alot of people dont like me because i like Drizzt but oh well Xd. Thats a few ill post more when i have time im in a hurry.

Galadriel55

07-10-2014, 04:59 PM

Thanks to my sister, just finished The Princess Bride, which I believe is not unfamiliar to some of you. Really fun book on many levels, but (no offense) I think the movie is horrible. It botched all the best parts and all the parts that are left up to the imagination! There's a reason the ending of the book is as it was!!! >< (Just for the record, I prefer Morgenstern's ending to Bill's father's ending). And Buttercup isn't supposed to be such a lovely and loving lady, she's supposed to have a healthy streak of selfishness, so don't make her into a self-sacrificing heroine! And they made Inigo and Fezzik into much more minor characters than I think they should be and basically turned a tale of true love and high adventure into a tale of true cliches and high hollywood.

What I liked about the book is that, unlike many modern reads for children and young adults, its main source of humour is the setting, not the characters. Other novels lighten the mood at the expence of characters; usually there is at least one clown in the bunch who would throw in a joke to break up the suspense every time. While there are occasionally funny things being uttered by characters here, they are not being compromised, and they are still taken seriously overall.

Lotrelf

08-16-2014, 12:03 AM

Mine are two:
Harry Potter books
Chronicle of Narnia
The book I wish to read is Wheel of Time.
other than that I've been reading H. G. Wells' The Time Machine.

FerniesApple

08-22-2014, 08:31 AM

1. Alan Garner - Weirdstone of Brisingamen, Elidor, Moon of Gomrath

Old school fantasy written in the 60s, these are classics, based on Celtic myth, Arthurian legend, nearest I have found to Tolkiens charming style.

2. Neil Gaiman - Neverwhere, Stardust

Neverwhere is probably my favorite book after LOTR, every character is a gem. Its Alice in Wonderland 21st century style. wonderful.

3. Susan Cooper - Dark is Rising trilogy

more classic fantasy from a master. Some of it genuinely thrilling and mysterious.

4. Jonathan Stroud - Bartimaeus trilogy

the most sarcastic and loveable rogue ever. Beautifully written and laugh out loud funny.

5. Philip Pullman - His Dark Materials

Genius. nuff said

Morthoron

08-22-2014, 01:24 PM

Read the Gaiman/Pratchett novel "Good Omens" recently. Great concept, poor delivery. Funny at the start, but with a climax and denouement as exciting as a wet fart.

FerniesApple

08-22-2014, 02:36 PM

Read the Gaiman/Pratchett novel "Good Omens" recently. Great concept, poor delivery. Funny at the start, but with a climax and denouement as exciting as a wet fart.

wet farts can be strangely satisfying though. :Merisu:

Pitchwife

07-02-2020, 11:27 AM

This (http://mightygodking.com/2008/10/20/mgk-versus-his-adolescent-reading-habits/)reminded me very much of this thread.

In other news I recently finished M. John Harrison's Viriconium sequence. Bizarre, fascinating stuff inhabiting the borderlands between fantasy, scifi and surrealism. Don't read if you're scared of horse skulls, fish heads or giant insects.

William Cloud Hicklin

07-04-2020, 09:41 AM

I don't find many at all that measure up to Tolkien, but there is Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell, Susanna Clark.

Mithadan

07-06-2020, 06:47 PM

Just finished a reread of that book. Highly recommended. Has anyone seen the mini-series?

Thinlómien

04-17-2021, 04:18 AM

Just finished a reread of that book. Highly recommended. Has anyone seen the mini-series? To answer your question from a year ago, yes! The series doesn't quite measure up to the brilliant book, but I found it enjoyable. The cast, in particular, is excellent.

Has anyone read Clarke's new(er) novel, Piranesi? I'm currently reading that and it's beautiful.

Other fantasy novels/series I've read in the last year or so and enjoyed are:

The Inheritance trilogy by N.K. Jemisin
The first two of The Shadow Campaigns series by Django Wexler
His Majesty's Dragon by Naomi Novik
The Priory of the Orange Tree by Samantha Shannon
and the more genre bending/ low fantasy novel The Starless Sea by Erin Morgenstern

Alassë Estel

06-19-2023, 06:22 PM

Some of my very favorites are "The Chronicles of Narnia" by C. S. Lewis.
Others that I would reccomend are:
The Chronicles of Prydain by Lloyd Alexander
The Riddle-Master Trilogy by Patricia A. McKillip (I can't believe it is not more popular. I was quite surprised by how much I enjoyed these books)
The Rover Series by Mel Odom

Snowdog

06-30-2023, 08:23 PM

I may or may not have posted in one of the 25 pages of this thread, but if so, tough, I'm posting now...

Like I saw mentioned by someone in a random page in the depths, Tolkien basically took my ability to get into other fantasy authors with a few exceptions.
So I'll list the ones I've read or started to read...

Dune by Frank Herbert (first five books)
The Black Company by Glen Cook (all ten books)
Malazan Book of the Fallen by Scott Erikson (still sort of working my way through the series)
The Gentleman Bastard by Scott Lynch (1st book 'Lies of Loch Lamora' was all right. Read the 2nd book 'Red Seas Under Red Skies' and the best thing about it was finally reading the last word on the last page. I understand there are a couple more out. Maybe one day.
Song of Ice and Fire (Started Game of Thrones a few times, managing to get seven chapters in once. Gave up. Was kind of glad a TV series came out of it.
Illustrated Man by Ray Bradbury. (Actually saw the movie at a drive-in in the 70's and sought out the book at my local used book store. A collection of short stories wrapped in a story.
Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury (This was from a list of books I had to write an essay on in high school)
2001 A Space Odyssey (found this book in 1970 in Jr High after seeing the movie a couple years before)

Thats all I can think of for now.

Mithadan

07-01-2023, 07:55 AM

I am glad that this thread has been revived. It's a good source of recommendations for fantasy and science fiction books and series.

I started out as a science fiction fan and, looking for something different, I decided to try fantasy. So I chose what I had heard was the best as an introduction, Tolkien. Like Snowdog, this ruined the genre for me in many ways. I disliked anything that resembled Tolkien. This included Shanarra and similar works. I was also indifferent to so-called sword and sorcery books. However, I did enjoy fantasy that was thematically different from Middle Earth, i.e. less in the line of epic mythology.

Among those I have enjoyed greatly are:

The Earthsea books, by Ursula LeGuin
Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell, Susanna Clark
Good Omens, Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman
Neverwhere, Gaiman
Harry Potter

Fire and Ice was entertaining, but frustrating, particularly when I finished the parts that were written and nothing else was forthcoming. If Martin were to ever publish the last 2 books, I would probably not read them because that would require a reread of 1-5 and I didn't like them enough. I was never able to get into Wheel of Time, for reasons that I cannot define. Alasse mentions The Riddle-Master Trilogy by Patricia A. McKillip. I loved the first book but thought it went downhill thereafter. The Circle of Light series by Niel Hancock was a favorite of mine when I was young, but I tried to reread it recently and disliked it.

Urwen

07-01-2023, 02:09 PM

Has anyone heard of the Arrow Trilogy? I am in love with that trilogy.

Pitchwife

07-03-2023, 06:02 AM

Riddle-Master Trilogy by Patricia A. McKillip (I can't believe it is not more popular. I was quite surprised by how much I enjoyed these books)
McKillip had the magic quill (or, well, keyboard I guess), her writing was pure gold.

I quite enjoy Fritz Leibers short stories featuring Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser once in a while (expert prose and a tongue-in-cheek humour at the expense of his heroes). Also read Michael Moorcock's Eternal Champion / Phoenix in Obsidian / The Dragon and the Sword a while ago, admiring his colourful imagination and concise writing which allows him to complete a whole trilogy in less pages than the first volume of ASoIaF. I also like how he ties this story back to our real world, and the insight his protagonist finds in the end:
Indeed, to be a hero, forever at war, is to be in some ways always a child. The true challenge comes in making sense of one's life [...] I still dream frequently of the great battle-blades, the chargers, the massive fighting barges, the weird creatures and the magical cities, the bright banners and the wonder of perfect love [...] But I have discovered an equal intensity of experience in this world, too. We have merely, I think, to teach ourselves how to recognise and to relish it. QFT.

Bêthberry

07-03-2023, 02:30 PM

Philip Pullman's His Dark Materials

I greatly enjoyed reading Kenneth Oppel's Silverwing series to my children as well as Brian Jacque's Redwall series. And of course Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events. No, I did not read the Narnia books to them; I can't stomach Lewis. (I'm with Tolkien on that one.)

For earlier fantasy that influenced Tolkien I've read William Morris' fantasies and George MacDonald's as well.

Mithadan

06-14-2024, 07:43 AM

This is a good thread to re-awaken. There are some very good recommendations made here.

I have read or am reading the following. This list is not limited to fantasy.

Currently reading:

A Memory Called Empire, by Arkady Martine. Very good so far. Smart science fiction focusing upon politics, interstellar culture and imperial court relationships and manipulation. Could be compared to Foundation or Dune in that regard.

Other suggestions or reviews

Martha Wells' Murderbot Diaries series has now expanded to seven books (actually six novellas and one full size novel). The first in the series is All Systems Red. Written in the first person from the perspective of a rogue ai security robot, this series is smart and insightful science fiction, combining action, tech, intrigue and political commentary. Highly recommended.

Theodora Goss' series has gained a nickname, apparently: The Extraordinary Adventures of the Athena Club. The first is The Strange Case of the Alchemist's Daughter. The basic premise is that the spate of monster stories (among others) from (primarily) the nineteenth century are true, and there is a secret society that conducts genetic experiments. The principal characters are what could be described as cast-offs or lost or escaped experiments of the society, mostly women, who are both searching for answers and seeking to protect one another and those with similar backgrounds. Set in the late 1800s, the author mimics the style of writers of that era and clearly did some research. Very enjoyable reading, but on the light side.

Leigh Bardugo, who was apparently gaining a reputation for young adult fantasy, ventured into adult fantasy with two books: The Ninth House and its sequel Hell Bent. While these could be described as Harry Potter for grown-ups (the shortest version of a summary would be that the secret societies at Yale University are founded upon magic), this description does not do them justice. They are adult books -- they are dark, violent and gory -- and they are magic-themed, but the comparison ends there. Unlike HP, magic is very serious, not cute or funny. It is dark and is used for money and power. Issues like addiction and abuse are addressed frankly. These books are very well-written and compelling. Also very highly recommended.

Connie Willis' "Oxford Time Travel" series is outstanding. Funny, poignant and well-researched historically (as a time travel book should be). Begin with Doomsday Book, though I started with To Say Nothing of the Dog. The writing is light in style and is well-researched and includes some dark events in history but draws the reader in (as award winners should).

Ann Leckie's Imperial Radch trilogy (begins with Ancillary Justice) is also excellent. It melds artificial (and/or shared) intelligence with political intrigue with a subtext (if that is the right word) of "gender blindness" (meaning that the reader never learns the gender/sex of any character and it is written as unimportant).