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View Full Version : The Iron Hills, the most powerful kingdom in Wilderland?


goldfinger
12-24-2006, 02:26 PM
While reading through appendix A, I found on page 1052, first paragraph, this bit of info about the Iron Hills:

"Among many cares he (Gandalf) was troubled in mind by the perilous state of the North; because he knew then already that Sauron was plotting war, and intended, as soon as he felt strong enough, to attack Rivendell. But to resist any attempt from the East to regain the lands of Angmar and the Northern passes in the mountains there were now only the Dwarves of the Iron Hills."

This text leads me to believe then, that the Iron Hills was the strongest kingdom in Wilderland after the taking of Erebor by Smaug. For Thorin said himself when he was talking to Roac the raven about sending messengers "But go specially to my cousin Dain in the Iron Hills, for he has many people well-armed".

Just thought I would share this interesting info.

A_Brandybuck
12-24-2006, 03:01 PM
There are only few realms left in Wilderland. We have first the Dwarves of the Iron Hills under Daín, as you mentioned. Second, we have the realm of Thranduil in Mirkwood. Furthermore, there are the Beornings, but they could hardly considered a realm at this time, right?

Southern Wilderland is deserted. All people moved northwards after the wars with the wainriders etc. The Éothéod moved then southward to settle in Calenardhon. As realm of Men could only be considered vaguely the people of Laketown and nearby

So, I would say, that only the Elves of Mirkwood and the Dwarves of the Iron Hills could be considered as realm. When it is told, that only the Dwarves of the Iron Hills could stop Sauron from taking back the old realm of Angmar, then I would say, that it is meant, that they are strategically able to stop Sauron, because of the location of the realm. I am sure, that the Wood-Elves could stop his army, too, if they have come through Mirkwood.

But sending his army through Mirkwood or along its borders would mean to face the Elves and probably the Dwarves together. Destroying only the Dwarves of the Iron Hills would mean, that they could reoccupy Angmar going through the northern waste lands and avoiding Mirkwood and therefore the Elves.

For that reason, I would not say, that the Dwarves are the most powerful realm in Wilderland. The Elves could (only could) be more powerful or equal.

Boromir88
12-26-2006, 02:53 PM
King Dain (and his people) were always a staunch resistor to Sauron. The dwarves (and Men of Dale) role during the War of the Ring must not be overlooked. The main focus is on Gondor...that is the place Sauron hates the most and feels it would be the toughest to take over. So, it is Gondor that would bare the bulk of Sauron's focus and attack. However, eventhough if that's the focus of the story we are told about in the Return of the King; I don't think the resistance of Dain's people should be cast aside.

While Sauron was attacking Gondor he also sent another force to attack the Dwarves of the Iron Hills, and it is them that hold off and stop Sauron's advance to Rivendell and beyond.

Sauron had a brilliant strategy...he made some mistakes executing his plans; but his plan was brilliant. He wanted to prevent another Last Alliance like he faced in the 2nd Age. Eventhough if the Free Peoples would not be able to put up the numbers like they did in the Last Alliance, nevertheless Sauron wanted to prevent them all from uniting together again. So, what he does is he feels Gondor is his main threat, and he prevents other possible allies from helping Gondor out. Gondor would take the brunt of Sauron's assault, but to prevent 'outside help' Sauron effectively ties up the other areas. He gets Saruman on his side to attack Rohan...probably Gondor's greatest ally. He sends a force to attack the Dwarves and tie them up...hoping to continue on into Rivendell and beyond. He ties up the Elves of Lorien and of Mirkwood with attacks from Moria and Dol Guldur respectively. What Sauron plans is brilliant; he doesn't do the best job executing his plan, but the plan itself is an excellent idea.

So, now comes the importance of the Iron Hills...which I think is evident in the quote you provided; and what A_Brandybuck talks about. I think it's a tribute to teh strength of the dwarves that Sauron didn't want to fight them unless he had to...remember at first he sent messengers to Dain to try and win him over and avoid fighting them:
'Then about a year ago a messenger came to Dain, but not from Moria - from Mordor: a horseman in the night, who called Dain to his gate. The Lord Sauron the Great, so he said, wished for our friendship...
'As a small token only of your friendship Sauron asks this,' he said: 'that you should find this thief,' such was his word, 'and get from him, willing or no, a little ring, the least of rings, that once he stole. It is but a trifle that Sauron fancies, and an earnest of your good will. Find it, and three rings that the Dwarf-sires possessed of old shall be returned to you, and the realm of Moria shall be yours for ever. Find only news of the thief, whether he lives and where, and you shall have great reward and lasting friendship from the Lord. Refuse, and things will not seem so well.'~The Council of Elrond
This should speak to the strength of the Dwaves...Sauron didn't want to deal with them! He tried to offer them terms of a 'peace' so he didn't have to fight with another place in order to achieve what he wanted. However, the Dwarves saw through into Sauron's purposes and rejected the offer:
'Heavy have the hearts of our chieftains been since that night. We needed not the fell voice of the messenger to warn us that his words held both menace and deceit; for we knew already that the power that has re-entered Mordor has not changed, and ever it betrayed us of old.~ibid
What the Dwarves did was quite important. Even though if it's not the focus on the War of the Ring they held of Sauron's advance further west to Rivendell and Eriador. They indeed were the staunch defenders of the North. As A_Brandybuck mentions, Mirkwood may have been some help; but I think we must not forget they were having troubles of their own fighting off the assaults from Dol Guldur...and needed help from Lorien to end the problem.

What the Dwarves and Men in the area did first rejecting Sauron's offer of peace (since they knew Sauron was going to deceive them), and second holding off his advance further is quite a testament to the strength of the people in the area to resist Sauron. If Sauron trying to offer them a peace so he could avoid confrontation with them isn't already enough. ;)

The Might
12-26-2006, 05:51 PM
And this quote proves just how important the part of the Men of Dale and Dwarves of Erebor was in the WOTR:

Yet things might have gone far otherwise and far worse. When you think of the great Battle of Pelennor, do not forget the battles in Dale and the valour of Durin's Folk. Think of what might have been. Dragon-fire and savage swords in Eriador, night in Rivendell. There might be no Queen in Gondor. We might now hope to return from victory here only to ruin and ash.
As far as Sauron's strategy is concerned, I can understand why he did that. As told in various of Tolkien's writings not all Dwarves were good, and so he perhaps thought that by using persuasion and giving them gold and treasures he would be able to draw them on his side, and also to avoid a direct confrontation. The Iron Hills and the Dwarves of Erebor were however good and fortunately refused his offer.
It is also important to remember the exiles who settled in the Iron Hills were of the clan of the Longbeards, most commonly known as Durin's Folk so were of the most noble kind of Dwarves.

It is also important to remember that Sauron offered his enemies such choices even when they were clearly close to defeat, for example at the Black Gate. Even though the Host of the West clearly had no possibility to win, Sauron still gave them the choice to retreat and surrender.