What happens if...

[The Might]

...you throw a Ringwraith right in the middle of the Sea?
I mean, they are invisible when unclad, but not in the way that matter can go through them, so they would probably sink...since I doubt they can swim judging by their fear of water
But they can't drown either, as seen after the huge flood of the Bruinen when they quickly returned to Mordor
So...would they lie around on the bottom of the Sea, or would they run around on the bottom of the Sea? I dunno, maybe you can help me out with this one

[Morwen]

But whatever Ringwraiths happen to be composed of, would it be so dense that they would remain at the bottom of the sea after being thrown in? (assuming of course that they can't swim) I would assume that if they were thrown into the sea/other body of water and Sauron were still around that they would remain open to his summons and in response they would float/drift to the surface of the water and find their way back to him in the way that they did after the Bruinen incident.

[The Might]

Hmm...why did I think they would sink in the first place...I wonder??? :confused:

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I think a stormy sea would sweep them wherever it would, but I believe the wraiths, once they shed their garments, would be able to rise from the calm sea and travel through the air back to their master.

[LjósÁlfr]

Hmm...why did I think they would sink in the first place...I wonder??? :confused:

Well, you'd have to be pretty damn light if you wanna float in the middle of a great sea. Heh, this (although it's off-topic) made me think of a discussion I had once with a friend, how would it be, if you were heavier then oxogyn, yet lighter then water (even in it's gass form).... If the Ringwraith were that... They could walk on clouds
:eek:... And they'd be able to climb over mist :D .

Well, It would seem rather weird to me if they floated, looking at it scientificly. But hey, Balrogs arn't possible if you look at science, why would the rightwraith's have to be? And even if they didn't float, they'd be summoned back by some wicked cunning of Sauron.....

And well, you might say: "What if it happened after Sauron?". If Sauron was overthrown, how much chance do you think a few humble Ringwraiths would have to still ride arround in Middle-Earth? Besides, the only way to overthrow Sauron is ditching that Ring, if the Ring is no more, neither are the Ringwraith's I think....

[Mithalwen]

Does a Nazgul weigh more or less than a duck?

And is the stormy sea made of custard..

We need to know these things ....

[LjósÁlfr]

He weighs more then a Duck, I mean, else he'd blow of his horse and his flying-dragon thingy :D

This means that, according to Monthy Python's view Nazgul's float and are witches.. BURN HIM!!! :D

[Mithalwen]

Listen, strange minions lyin' in ponds floatin '
or not is is no basis for a system of justice! Supreme executive power
derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic
ceremony!

[The Might]

I can't see how Sauron could "summon" them.
They would try to return to Mordor, as they did after the event on the Ford of Bruinen
But I wonder how water would influence their powers. We know they hated water, and Tolkien was aware that the way they managed to cross the dangerous ford at Tharbad is more or less a plot hole.
So what would they do in so much water...?
I don't really know. :confused:

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

It might be torturous for them, but is their fear of the water stronger than their fear of Sauron? I think they could negotiate the ocean; it's just that they'd have a really bad time!

[Morwen]

I can't see how Sauron could "summon" them.

In "Shadow of the Past", FotR, Gandalf says the following in discussing Gollum:
Mordor draws all wicked things and the Dark Power was bending all its will to gather them there. The Ring of the Enemy would leave its mark, too, leave him open to the summons. (emphasis mine)
Earlier in that same chapter Gandalf states that Sauron has gathered the Nine (rings) originally given the mortal men to himself.

If these rings have marked the Ringwraiths in the way that the Great Ring marked Gollum then they are similarly open to Sauron's summons, especially as he holds Nine rings and they have no independent wills of their own. As to how this summons worked, I thought that it might take a form similar to the mental communication that Gandalf, Galadriel etc display in "Many Partings".


It might be torturous for them, but is their fear of the water stronger than their fear of Sauron? I think they could negotiate the ocean; it's just that they'd have a really bad time!

I agree. I think that fear of their Master/a direct call from him would trump the fact that they happened to find themselves in water.

[The Might]

Sorry LjósÁlfr, I believe I initially understood your point wrong.
I agree with that, now that Morwen explained it.
I first thought you mean "summon" as in magically teleport them to Mordor or something like that. :rolleyes:

[Thinlómien]

I first thought you mean "summon" as in magically teleport them to Mordor or something like that. :rolleyes:Can I guess? You've played (a lot of) computer games in English? :p
(I speak from experience, I used to have a similar definiton for the verb "to summon" in my head some years ago since I had played too much games such as Age of Wonders and Heroes of Might and Magic... :D)

[narfforc]

If they floated would it be possible to make a bridge out of them.

[The Might]

Yep, probably HOMM
I remember 2 or 3 years ago I actually made a map of "Middle-earth" with the HOMM map editor
I had the Inferno as Barad-dur, and Necropolis as Minas Morgul for example...
Unfortunately I lost that file sometime when I deleted some stuff

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yep, probably HOMM
I remember 2 or 3 years ago I actually made a map of "Middle-earth" with the HOMM map editor
I had the Inferno as Barad-dur, and Necropolis as Minas Morgul for example...
Unfortunately I lost that file sometime when I deleted some stuff
Hey! I once did a Saruman campaign for HOMM3, he started with Tower and in the first mission he had to collect 50 uruk-hai (upgraded Orcs) around in the Misty mountains. Unfortunately, I lost it as well... and I was also making a pretty large map for Beleriand with all its realms...

*ahem* looks if there isn't a chat skwerl around...

But I wonder how water would influence their powers. We know they hated water, and Tolkien was aware that the way they managed to cross the dangerous ford at Tharbad is more or less a plot hole.
First, I don't think it would necessarily need to be a plot hole, even though it is mentioned in UT, I supposed that "ford made by the remnants of a bridge" wouldn't necessarily mean impassable barrier, even though Boromir lost a horse there, let's face it, the Ringwraith horses were well-trained and who knows how good the ford was...
And for the powers, I just think they'd be just really really unhappy (if such a word can be used for the Ringwraith), probably couldn't shriek (even with incorporal mouth, but full of water), but the fear could be still the same... imagine you are swimming around the shore, then suddenly you feel somewhat nervous, look around and then something touches your leg... you look down, and in the moving water you see some sort of black cloth... but it moves... it starts to move up, breaks the water, a loud shriek comes... well, nothing I'd like very much to experience, I'll tell you.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Lord of the Rings and Heroes combined? Tell me more! Start a new thread if you must! :)

[Actually, that might not go so far; I'll PM instead]