Admin thread for WWXXXV: Werewolves among the Wolf-men

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Now, we journey back into the mists of time...

Amon Rûdh. A lone hill on the plains west of the valley of Sirion. In its depths, in halls delved aeons ago by forgotten hands, several Outlaws hide from the searching eyes of Morgoth's spies. These men (and women) gathered from all over the Beleriand on rumour of the Dragon Helm of Dor-Lómin, which appeared again in these lands. Brave and weak, sly and meek, bandits and veterans, soldiers and settlers: these people have gathered here on Amon Rûdh, by chance, it could be said. But not all of them are just simple folk: several Morgoth's spies, vicious spirits disguised in human form, have managed to sneak to the ranks of the Outlaws of Amon Rûdh. They cannot reach their master Morgoth now and cannot hope to defeat all the Outlaws at once. So, under the cover of night, they take on their true form – that of the dire wolves, and they try to kill the Outlaws one by one, until there are so few left that they can easily overpower them. But the Outlaws know how to defend themselves, so they start restless hunt for the terrible Werewolves – hunt started by a man who, now hidden among the Outlaws, was once called Túrin, son of Húrin of Dor-Lómin...

Dear Downers, friends, fellow Werewolf players, Tolkien-lovers, and especially you who count yourselves among the fans of the amazing tale of Túrin Turambar. I would like to welcome you on the admin thread for the Werewolf XXXV game, which will be, for this time, taking place in ages long past, in times when Shadow crept from the North and the fate of Beleriand darkened. In this game, I am hoping to give you the possibility of taking part in one of Middle-Earth's most famous stories, experiencing on your own skin the feelings of Túrin, Beleg and many others as the Outlaws of Amon Rûdh. This is the time of decision, time of doubts and danger. Do you dare to enter the secret halls of Amon Rûdh, delved in ages past by Petty Dwarves? And if you do, will you be able to come out again?

We are, of course, creating an „alternate history“ fiction here, so I made some little changes to the story of Túrin to have it suitable and interesting for the game. I think the game could be suitable even for newcoming players, but on the other hand I think it might be interesting enough for the veterans. This game will feature three Werewolves and a good deal of „innocent“ Outlaws (as much as we can get), as well as the „Gifted“ roles of Beleg and Túrin, and some (little) surprises.

Signed up:

Rikae
Shastanis Althreduin
Nogrod
Macalaure
Isabellkya
Brinniel
Lhunardawen
xyzzy
Gil-Galad
the guy who be short
Mithalwen

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Concerning narrations

The narrations will reflect the game as closely as possible, including peoples' roles, significant events during the Night, plus (eventually) the personalities of the characters. If there is to be spoken about an unknown person, the person will be referred to in the narration as „he“. Roleplaying in this game is supported, though not necessary. Personally I think it would be best for you players to choose for yourselves here on this thread if you want it or not, since I know how distracting it may be, but I also know many people will like it. In case you choose to include roleplaying in the game, I would welcome everyone who wishes to PM me his role: concerning appearance, description of character personality; and also some brief (or even less brief, if you wish) summary of the character's past and how he/she got among the Outlaws will be nice. Remember please, whatever personality and past you take, it should correspond with the late First Age in Beleriand, at the time Túrin and the Outlaws settled at Amon Rûdh.
Knowledge of the tale of Túrin is recommended (for proper game experience as for basic orientation. It is not of course a necessity, but as I said, recommended. To those who do not know the tale and might want to read it in future, WARNING: WILL CONTAIN SPOILERS).

General Rules

The game starts on Monday 25th June, 8 PM GMT with Night 1.

Every Day lasts, of course, 24 real time hours and every Night as well. We start with a Night phase, where no kill is made and no special ability is used. Concerning the deadline, my initial proposal will be 8 PM GMT (9 PM BST). If you'd like something different, I'm open to your suggestions and will do my best to find something suitable for everybody, though in the end the main criterion will still be my timetable.

During the Day, the village chooses a person to lynch this Day by voting. The person who gets the most votes at the time of deadline is dead and can no longer post on the game thread as well as on the admin thread until the game ends.
Votes posted on the game thread should be on a separate line, boldened, marked with „++“ and clearly indicating the name of the person chosen to vote, like this:

++Legate of Amon Lanc

Every person has two votes per Day, meaning he can retract once a vote he cast before. Retraction (and the new vote, eventually) should look on the game thread like this:

--Legate of Amon Lanc
+++Legate of Amon Rûdh

If there are equal votes for two persons, the first person who reached the highest number of votes is lynched. So no double-lynches.


Roleplaying is compulsory in this game. This means, you post in-character, but from a second-person point of view, i.e. describing what your character does and says, like
Legate of Amon Lanc stepped forward. "I did not know he was innocent!" he shouted at Legate of Amon Rûdh.
Not
I did not know he was innocent!
In last minute retraction frays, you may eventually skip it and post just votes (but it will be nicer to and maybe it will help you not to end in these last minute frays).

AND, since we are doing this, you should leave the smilies and your signatures out of the posts. With the signatures, you can either set it in your profile, or you may check it individually at each post you make (it's down there under the "Addittional Options", "SHOW YOUR SIGNATURE", so you just un-check the box).

Posts can be edited for spelling mistakes or for noting cross-posting, but the content cannot be changed.
Out-game discussion about the game is not allowed. Only the roles that are allowed to PM each other can PM about the game at Night.
Admin thread can be used only for explanation of out-game problems and apologies for non-participation. Bearing in mind problems from latter games, I'd suggest you sign up only if you really think you'll be able to actively participate most of the time. I know I'm maybe ruining my own possible clientel by saying that, but I think it's better to have less players who participate surely than more players who fall off during the course of the game. I think it's disturbing for the players as well for the Mod himself, whatever the person's role is.
Person who does not vote for two days in a row will be eliminated from the game by the Mod. (amnesty may be granted by the Mod)


Please, don't forget to turn yourselves invisible before Night 1 starts! (For those who may not know, turning invisible is performed by clicking on your User CP, choosing „Edit Options“ and checking the „Use Invisible Mode“ field, then scrolling down the page and hitting „Save Changes“.)


Roles - summary

Three Werewolves, who try to appear like normal Outlaws at Day and PM each other at Night, while choosing one person to kill every Night.
A number of Ordinary Outlaws – the more, the merrier :D – who post at Day and try to lynch all the Wolves one by one.
Túrin, a special „Gifted“ role with special abilities, on the side of the Outlaws.
Beleg, a special „Gifted“ role with special abilities, on the side of the Outlaws.
Some more unknown roles... As soon as the game thread is up (in a day or two), you'll be able to catch a glimpse of them in the narration. Though nothing will be said for certain.

[Thinlómien]

Sounds all too intriguing... put me down as a questionmark. I'll ask you to take my name off later if it seems I won't be able to participate.

[Isabellkya]

This sounds like some fun. I would like to join. However I will be gone friday night and all day saturday.. just to let you know if signups fill quickly. ;)

[Aganzir]

In case enough people will not sign up until June 27 (improbable, isn't it?), I'd like to play. Before that I'm afraid I'll have no time.

[Brinniel]

Looks interesting. I'm anxious to get back into WW again, so go ahead and sign me up. :)

Also, if this game starts really soon (before the 18th), I may not post so often. After that, I will have more time. Another note: while I should be able to post fairly frequently (after the 17th), I'm not sure how often I'll be there each Day right before the deadline (work related reasons), so I may have to vote a few hours early a lot. I just thought I might warn everyone now since I tend to get killed whenever I vote early... :rolleyes:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I just thought I might warn everyone now since I tend to get killed whenever I vote early...
I had the impression you tend to get killed early every time ;)

In case enough people will not sign up until June 27 (improbable, isn't it?), I'd like to play. Before that I'm afraid I'll have no time
That's a pity. Even if it went that slow, I don't have any specified number of players needed for this game, and I'd like to start as early as possible... so it indeed looks like you'll miss this one :(

However I will be gone friday night and all day saturday.. just to let you know if signups fill quickly.
Don't worry, and here you sort of played into my hand because I'd like to announce that I'm gone friday night and all day saturday (uh? No, really...) so I won't be able to check back these days, but this does not mean you couldn't sign up on these days :) We'll see how the sign-ups go, and if it will go well, then I'd like to start the game shortly after that.

[Lhunardawen]

...but please put Lhunardawen down with a question mark. :)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I had the impression you tend to get killed early every time ;)

Well, she deserves it!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

...but please put Lhunardawen down with a question mark. :)
Great! Welcome on board! I never saw you in action, so I hope I may this time. :)

Rune, what about you? Just passing by, or are you pondering joining in too? (so that you may contribute to Brinniel's death once more?) :)

[The Sixth Wizard]

Put me down as a question mark. I think I might sit this one out, but you never know.

[Brinniel]

I had the impression you tend to get killed early every time
Well, let's see if I can change that...

And if not...well, I guess I'll just have to set some sort of record for all my early deaths, won't I? :rolleyes:

Well, she deserves it!
Pfft... Nice to know you take sport in killing me...

Fine. If that is so, you should join then. In fact, I dare you to. I am more than ready to battle it out with you. :p

Anyways, I'm really pumped for this game. I even just had a much needed refresher on Chapter 21 of The Silmarillion. WW is always a perfect excuse to sit down for a good read. :cool:

[Lhunardawen]

Great! Welcome on board! I never saw you in action, so I hope I may this time. :)
Werewolf seems like a nice way to reintroduce oneself to the barrows, and to Tolkien. :)

8 PM GMT is 4 AM my time so you need to get used to my early votes. (Again.) ;)

As for roleplaying - I guess females will have to remain so? In that case, it will be a good exercise in roleplaying to come up with a good reason for a female to suddenly find herself among the Outlaws. Hmm.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Great! Welcome on board! I never saw you in action, so I hope I may this time. :)

Rune, what about you? Just passing by, or are you pondering joining in too? (so that you may contribute to Brinniel's death once more?) :)
Even though I do love to play with Lhuna and I do love to Kill Brinniel I am just passing by, I need a short brake from ww.

I will probably return shortly though.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

As for roleplaying - I guess females will have to remain so? In that case, it will be a good exercise in roleplaying to come up with a good reason for a female to suddenly find herself among the Outlaws. Hmm.
Well, even a woman can end among the Outlaws. If you choose a role however, you don't necessarily have to remain as female if you want to...

Since we already started about this topic, unless all the female players (of which there are, thus far, majority) decide to be presented as male Outlaws in this game, it is not impossible that Beleg or Túrin, though they are male, cannot cover in female disguise... (a clever trick to hide yourself, wouldn't it be?)

[Lhunardawen]

Even though I do love to play with Lhuna and I do love to Kill Brinniel I am just passing by, I need a short brake from ww.
Um, well, unfortunately, if I DO decide to join, this might be the only chance I get before I'm swamped with schoolwork.

Well, even a woman can end among the Outlaws. If you choose a role however, you don't necessarily have to remain as female if you want to...

Since we already started about this topic, unless all the female players (of which there are, thus far, majority) decide to be presented as male Outlaws in this game, it is not impossible that Beleg or Túrin, though they are male, cannot cover in female disguise... (a clever trick to hide yourself, wouldn't it be?)
I opt to stay stubbornly female. It makes for greater confusion, this gender issue, which is always fun in a Werewolf game. :D

Besides, Beleg and Túrin are just roles assigned, aren't they, for the sake of storytelling? So the players shouldn't let gender affect their decision-making in the game so far as these roles are concerned, just like we don't single out males ALONE as werewolves since there are not much known female werewolves in literature.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Besides, Beleg and Túrin are just roles assigned, aren't they, for the sake of storytelling? So the players shouldn't let gender affect their decision-making in the game so far as these roles are concerned, just like we don't single out males ALONE as werewolves since there are not much known female werewolves in literature.
Of course they are. I just wanted to point that out in case someone somehow came to the conclusion that their players have to be male.

And, does it mean I should remove the question mark after your name?

[Durelin]

I'd like to actually be in this game, and not just on the list. :p

Thank ye.

And I'm going to be male for this game. Or just sexually ambiguous.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'd like to actually be in this game, and not just on the list. :p

Thank ye.

And I'm going to be male for this game. Or just sexually ambiguous.
Roger, sir... :D

[Brinniel]

Even though I do love to play with Lhuna and I do love to Kill Brinniel I am just passing by, I need a short brake from ww.
Ah, well I understand. I'd be a bit afraid of me too if I were in your position. After all, I can be quite vicious if I want to be. ;)

Lhuna, I really hope you join this game. I would love for an opportunity to play with you. :)

[xyzzy]

Excuse me while I ponder for a moment whether I can do th-

OH YEAH. (I'm in, with a fury.)

[Lhunardawen]

Of course they are. I just wanted to point that out in case someone somehow came to the conclusion that their players have to be male.

And, does it mean I should remove the question mark after your name?
I knew that would be your next question...

Oh fine, yes. I must be crazy, but yes, please count me in for good.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Wonderful! And xyzzy, welcome on board :)

Now the thing I spoke about earlier - I'm going to disappear for a day and bit, and I'll return on Sunday. Until then, everyone is of course welcome to sign up, I'll add your names to the list when I'm back. If anyone has any questions about the game, please post them, I'll also reply when I'm back.

I also pondered the datum of the start of the game. If all those who are signed up above indeed play, we have 11 people thus far. I'd like at least 16 (the more the better, of course) or something like that. It of course all depends on how the sign-ups go, but if enough people join, it will be nice to start on Monday 18th (8 PM GMT) with Night One. Of course, this is just a presumption, and it will depend on whether enough people join or not. But I wanted to post it here if it will be fine with everyone in case we'll be able to launch the game then.
(As a side note, since we are starting with a Night phase, if the sign-ups went indeed very well, we might even start Night 1 on Sunday evening and the Day would be on Monday. But we'll see if even there is enough people.)

[Thinlómien]

Legate, you can remove my name (and the questionmark) from the list. It's a pity, but I won't be able to play. :( With the midsummer-thing and leaving to Berlin on the 27th I will be too much away to play...

[Gil-Galad]

sign me up

[Nogrod]

sign me upI just hope you're a bit more active than in Spm's game... :) :(

[Gil-Galad]

I just hope you're a bit more active than in Spm's game... :) :(


school is over for me and i graduated so i got no worries for a bit...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate, you can remove my name (and the questionmark) from the list. It's a pity, but I won't be able to play. :( With the midsummer-thing and leaving to Berlin on the 27th I will be too much away to play...
Pity, pity... we'll miss you. Enjoy the fests and Berlin, then...

And Gil-Galad, it's good to see you here! Glad to hear you have no worries so you can maximize your performance in the game ;)

[Lhunardawen]

Are we still carrying on with the roleplaying? Should we have already PMed our mini-character bios?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, thus far most people haven't expressed their opinions on that. But if you want, you may post me your mini-character bio if you have it.
Concerning this, I'd like people to decide here, because I think it's not much good if we end in some vacuum where half of the people roleplay and the other half wants to lynch them for that.

[Brinniel]

Hmm...well, I don't mind roleplaying for the first several posts as I think it's a good way to get the game going. But for the next Days, I'd rather not since in the end it only seems to cause confusion.

But I can go either way. I'm pretty flexible. :)

Btw, since we still only have 11 players, I'm guessing we aren't starting tomorrow?

Hurry and sign up people...I want to start playing already!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, let's do it this way if everyone agrees.

Everyone send me some brief role description (as noted above in the 2nd post), it will be used in the narrations and you decide how much you roleplay in the game. Those who do not send me a role description only risk that I may portray them, if they are described in the narration, in a way they won't like. You really don't have to do anything much detailed if you do not want to, but who chooses to, surely will not pity and may feel becoming a part of the story of Túrin :)

Now concerning the sign-ups, I hope we have not stopped on a dead point. I know a village can be even small (and it will be quite a change against the massive villages we faced several times before), but still, 11 people is too few. Don't tell me no one will find a way to participate! Where are all these folks like SpM? tgwbs? Mith? Or any roleplayers who would like to have a little fear of unknown combined with it?

Wow! 1,000th post! :eek:

[Lhunardawen]

I must agree with Brinniel - that's usually how it was in the games in which I've played. Once accusations are flying around, and not the random ones, the roleplaying aspect of the game is quite promptly dropped.

That's a great idea, Legate. I'll send my mini-bio as soon as I can.

Congratulations on your thousandth post! :)

[Nogrod]

I think there has been one game where the role-playing aspect got pretty far - not all the posts but on Day4 or something most of the posts were still in kind of in-character (that was Glirdy's game). It was no-nonsense but actual playing through from within the roles by everyone (well, most of us). I really enjoyed that one and would like to have another try of that here... And we really tried to make a difference there... and fought fiercely against any lazy ideas...

So I mean that we should avoid posting things like: "hi, I'm the weird one from X and doobie-doo...". That is a bad post... meriting a lynch in the first Day I say. That kind of an attitude to the posting would make the game very unentertaining indeed. In Glirdy's game everyone made their best and articulated their best arguments within the framework of the character they had. And it was fun.

So let's try it for real and play it in the middle of the summer and play it with quality!
:)

Try it, You'll like it!

PS. A bio coming hopefully sooner than later... but coming.

[Durelin]

But shouldn't everyone be allowed to play with their own style? It is just a game, after all. Setting down rules (okay, general guidelines...ew, no, that was not a Pirates reference) for lynching someone just because of their playing style seems to be taking it in a direction I personally really don't like...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Surely, but I think what Nogrod proposed is a nice idea. It's up to players how it will form: but if people post in-character, I think given the current numbers others will "catch the environment" and join them...

Since we have still 11 people, but I don't want to stretch it and really start as soon as possible. So I'm more or less starting to think that we'll have to play in really low numbers. But 11 would be a killer. I'd like to go with 13 at minimum.

On the other hand, I think there is one bonus from the lower numbers, because I think the lower numbers could make it a more "family-friendly" (ha, ha) setting, and players may, you know, give themselves more to the game, to contact with others more personally, and so on. Combined with the roleplaying it may be very good game.

Whatever way it turns, I'm not delaying the game much more now. If you have ideas on who could be interested, tell me and I might try to contact them to invite them.

Hey folks! Is there really no one who would like to join?

I would like to start quite soon now. So we will probably start in a day or two... and maybe in 11 people... :rolleyes:

[The Sixth Wizard]

I'm real sorry Legate, but I think I'll have to pull out. I'm not finding any time at the moment and want to stay off the computer for a bit. Once again, sorry. :(

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

...10?

No, no, wait - treacheryyy! No way! Ten people? That's too much! Totally deadly! Do I now resemble a man on an auction where he's forced to drop the price? Okay, okay, 11 people will suffice...

Is there anyone around? SpM? All the notorious players? Where are you when we need you?

*ahem* All right, what do you folks say on having a little village with 10 people? I strongly emphasise that in that case it's going to be a really, really brutal.

[Nogrod]

...10?

No, no, wait - treacheryyy! No way! Ten people? That's too much! Totally deadly! Do I now resemble a man on an auction where he's forced to drop the price? Okay, okay, 11 people will suffice...How about we wait until the Midsummer's eve is over and start the next week? I think it was at least Aganzir who said she could play then and maybe well get some others in as well? If I remeber it correctly it was the same last summer that we didn't have many games as people were having summer-holidays. But we should absolutely play this one!

But next week then? I myself will be away Fri-Mon and will be all for the game from Tuesday on.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, it will be nice. But it may have several setbacks - someone might like to play sooner more than later. I think it was Rikae who said something like that... Personally, I'd also like more starting earlier, otherwise if the game took too long it could happen that the Mod may not be able to mod... :o (or better said, I'm not at home some time in July and I don't know if I'll have net access... maybe yes, but it's quite risky since I don't know for certain - I'll rely on Wi-fi). It depends also on the other players, so what do you others say?

[Macalaure]

For Rikae and me, one week later is not a problem. Even two weeks wouldn't be.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hmm... and what about the others?

I thought about this somehow. In general, the options we have before us are these:

1. We start now (let's say on Wednesday evening) with probably 10 people. Nogrod won't be around from Friday till Monday, this means less people in these days (unless Nogrod is lynched or killed the first Day/Night, in that case there'll be no difference). I would certainly not like to see that, because especially with such a low number of players and given the nature of the game, absence of one person totally destroys the game. The other possibility will be a variation: to start now and then do a break on the Midsummer. Which sounds quite strange, but if you wanted to, it's also a possibility.

2. We start next week (let's say on Monday evening?) with as much people as we collect till then (though I'm not having any illusions, but who knows). For this speaks quite a lot of things, first the Midsummer won't go in the way and second, from Monday afternoon I'll be also completely free from all my other obligations. Setbacks? If we gather too much people and the game will be too long, the specter of my departure to a place with less internet access will be upon us.

3. We wait till even later. For this speaks: probably gathering quite a lot of people, including Aganzir, maybe even Volo or whoever else. But we will be totally at mercy of my internet access, which may end in complate disaster and wash-out of the Mod if I realize that I won't have any internet access. I don't know how it goes, but if such a terrible fate befell us, I might as well not be able to mod till some time in August (!) which is, of course, totally silly.

Some have already spoken on that matter. Now what do you others think?

[Lhunardawen]

I'm all for starting as soon as possible. I'm just squeezing a game in before the profs go full-on sadistic.

And truth be told, I'd prefer a smaller village. Large ones tend to get too tiring for the players. But Legate's right - 10 is too much!

[Durelin]

Surely, but I think what Nogrod proposed is a nice idea. It's up to players how it will form: but if people post in-character, I think given the current numbers others will "catch the environment" and join them...

I don't have a problem with in-character-ness...hardly. But I do have a problem with 'if you're not taking the game 'seriously' enough, you should be lynched.'

I'm fine for starting whenever, though I will back out of the game if my playing style does not suit. Though really I can't tell you how I'll play. Depends on my mood. :)

[Aganzir]

I'm going to spend the next week (June 20-27) in Hungary, and won't have net access there. The first day I could play is June 28, but missing one day or so wouldn't be too bad I think. So if you start on 26th, 27th or even 25th, I think I could play (depends on whether the game starts with Day or Night phase).

I think you probably will have enough players before that, but I won't have a chance to come to the Downs anymore before I return, and that's why I'm saying this now. So if the game should start on 26th or 27th (or 25th with a Night phase), take this message as a sign up :)

[Brinniel]

10 is definitely not large enough. I would really prefer there to be 14 or 15 of us before starting.

I don't have any changes coming up in my schedule right now, so I can wait another week (or more) in order for us to get enough people. But if we do start next week...well, I know how my luck goes. No one better kill me on my birthday or I WILL haunt you! :p

[Rikae]

For Rikae and me, one week later is not a problem. Even two weeks wouldn't be.Speak for yourself! :p
No, actually, he's right. I suppose it isn't a problem to start next week.

[Volo]

I think there has been one game where the role-playing aspect got pretty far - not all the posts but on Day4 or something most of the posts were still in kind of in-character (that was Glirdy's game). It was no-nonsense but actual playing through from within the roles by everyone (well, most of us). I really enjoyed that one and would like to have another try of that here... And we really tried to make a difference there... and fought fiercely against any lazy ideas...

And that was a very nice game indeed... But you have to mention that it's a special game!

...in Sleepy's game (the one after Glirdan's) I got Fenrisfised because of talking nonsense (i.e. roleplaying). :rolleyes:

Surely, but I think what Nogrod proposed is a nice idea. It's up to players how it will form: but if people post in-character, I think given the current numbers others will "catch the environment" and join them...

Not works! You'll have to emphasise that "roleplaying is compulsory"! Otherwise the in-characternessness won't last even till the end of Day1. (as shown in countles of games) Players tend to go for the easier solution, which is not write RP posts, if they don't absolutely have to.

But it would be great to have one of those RP-WWs again, especially if there are so few players. (It does pain me even more that I will stay out of this. And of course, since I'm not playing, I shouldn't be allowed to vote for the rules.)

Though, I might be able to join the game in July, or I might give some co-mod assistance if you, Legate, have problems with getting to a computer. ;)

[xyzzy]

Oh, sorry for not pointing this out earlier:

I won't be here from Friday until Sunday.

That is all.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, so in general, this far it looks like the best for everyone will be the variant 2 quite obviously. Therefore, I would propose the following: starting Night 1 on Monday 25th 8 PM GMT, while everyone except Aganzir will be present (unless some of those who did not speak yet will state otherwise). This will mean starting Day 1 on 26th 8 PM GMT. And while Night 2 will be going from (for us Europeans) evening 27th to evening 28th, Aganzir will have enough time to catch up with the game (briefly read the thread, eventually nightly activities if she had any) and on Day 2 she could join the game with no problems.

I'll post the start date at the beginning of the thread (and maybe also as a note on the game thread, where it will be more visible). This way it will be considered "official" from now on. But of course, if anyone has any objections against it, the discussion is still open. Otherwise, see you on the 25th.

And, please, send your short bios to me as soon as possible. At least a day before the start, please, so that I can make something of them. The game roles will be sent in about 12 hours before the start of Night 1.

And still, if anyone has any other questions concerning the game, feel free to post them on this thread.

The prologue to the game (as seen on the game thread) is thus far closed. The following narration will come right before Night 1.

Not works! You'll have to emphasise that "roleplaying is compulsory"! Otherwise the in-characternessness won't last even till the end of Day1. (as shown in countles of games) Players tend to go for the easier solution, which is not write RP posts, if they don't absolutely have to.
Well, it will be indeed nice to have full-roleplay WW, and I think this one almost calls for it... but I'm not sure if all the people indeed wanted it. Looking at the table this far, maybe yes, from how I know most of you... The ones I don't know about much are xyzzy and Isabell who were, or so I thought - maybe wrong - more interested in WWing itself (but roleplaying does not exclude it!). It's fact that for example I know Shasta surprised me the first time we played together with very, very good in-character posts... maybe there are more hidden talents here...?

I don't want to come up with the despotic idea Volo brought just out of the blue, but if the voice of the people is more agreeing, I may bring in the "compulsory roleplaying" idea. But that's what I said even in the opening post - I know how distracting it may be. But it's true as well, that if you submerge to it, the game gets totally different quality and it surely is worth it. The question is, if you want to - or at least more "want to" than "want not".

[The Saucepan Man]

Sorry, Legate. I didn't sign up because I was away last weekend and will be otherwise engaged next weekend.

That said, even if you don't start 'til next week, I think that I need to take a short break. I am just not up to back-to-back Werewolfing these days, what with pesky distractions like family, work etc. ;)

As for role-playing, despite being the one who introduced in-game roles when modding Werewolf the Second, compulsory and extended role-playing is not really my bag. It takes me long enough to write most WW posts without having to structure them as narratives as well. I am one of those who likes the in-character banter as a Day 1 distraction, but then prefers to get into the serious business of interminable and lengthy analysis ... :rolleyes:

That's not to say it isn't worth doing if those who are playing are comofrtable with it, although you need to make clear that there a Werewolf game with role-playing is an entirely different thing to a Downs RPG and that they are governed by completely different rules and conventions, so as to avoid any risk of confusion.

[Nogrod]

I say we do go for the compulsory Role-play... it's fun (I was there in Glirdy's game and really enjoyed it).

But every slip from it should be understood and not judged too badly. There are situations where the going gets too rough (like the last minute votes etc.) to maintain a roleplaying thing on. So how about we say this is an RPG-style WW-game but that no one is penalised if they forget to stay on the RPG-mode every now and then?

And I do hope that writing from behind the role does not make an excuse to post only "laadidaa"-posts - the perfect cover for a wolf... One can actually play the game quite analytically being "in-character" as well. And that's what I hope to see.

And yes I think the idea of starting this game on Monday is a good decision. Let's get a few more players before that!


For Rikae and me, one week later is not a problem. Even two weeks wouldn't be. Speak for yourself!Now isn't this cute? :p

[Lhunardawen]

Too bad you prioritise your distractions over Werewolf, SpM. :p I would have loved the opportunity of playing with you again.

It takes me long enough to write most WW posts without having to structure them as narratives as well.
Exactly the reason I would rather we have a small band of outlaws. If we want to stick to the roleplaying format as much as we can while remaining loyal to the Werewolf game aspect, having plenty of people to analyse won't really help in that. Personally 12 to 13 players should do it for me. (That's more or less how few the players were in the first few games, right?)

Oh, and if it matters, I'm perfectly fine with the starting date.

[Thinlómien]

Aganzir asked me to say that she just realized she will be away from the 29th to 30th, so if the game begins before the 27th, she can't probably play.

[Durelin]

Argh...crap...I'm so stupid...I leave for Europe on July 2nd! >_< >_< >_<

Ergh, grah, my God, I am so sorry...I have to pull out of the game... >_<

:o

[Isabellkya]

I don't have any problems with starting times, unless of course it starts in August, then I will have to pull out. However I see the game starting waaay before that. ;)

I don't particularly mind role-playing, my biggest problem always seems to be when it comes to actually choosing and getting into character. I have played one once before and it was decently fun.

[Gil-Galad]

just a heads up, i'm going camping 28th-30th so thats 3 days i'm out

[Brinniel]

Oh no, we're supposed to gain people, not lose them!

Well, you can count on me Legate, since for the next month, I will have nothing better to do than WW (or perhaps I do...I would just rather not ;) ).

[the guy who be short]

I have no reason to exist for the next couple of months... some goal-orientated behaviour would do me good. Sign me up, Mr Leg!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I have no reason to exist for the next couple of months... some goal-orientated behaviour would do me good. Sign me up, Mr Leg!
Great! At least someone. Welcome, tgwbs!

...anyone else? Gah, we could have had 12 or 13 people if someone didn't back off... *traitors*

[Durelin]

I'm fine with playing until I have to leave, but what then?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I'm still here. :D

And, much like Brinniel, count me in for any time. :D

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'm fine with playing until I have to leave, but what then?
Well unless you make some sort of pact with Aganzir that you pass your role to her, then I think the only solution for you will be to get killed or lynched in the first few days, which is not as improbable, however if we were to count on it, it's still nothing much.

But seriously, I think if you know you won't be in the game later, you can't experience the game fully because you know either way you're not here till the end.

It's bad so many people cannot play now, and I know many would like to, but can't. *scratches head* How much optimistic we are with getting at least 12 or 13 people until Monday? If we had really problems with getting enough people, I could delay the game and then could start on 10th July. Pretty drastic. But maybe some people who cannot play now could play then? Would be such a delay legit?

I surely don't want to delay the game to rob players of the fun (I'm sure everyone who signed up is eager to play), but if this fun were to be reduced near nil (with 10 or 11 players at maximum), maybe it will be better to start later and wait for the time when there will be more players who can fully dedicate to the game. Not for the game itself, but for their fun. I don't want anyone to play just because he has to become a number, or play by arriving hectically to the computer once per day to make a post.

That does not mean I'm packing it yet. But the game is now scheduled to start exactly three days from now.

[Brinniel]

Hmm....it's a tough choice. But I'd really hate to see this game delayed until July 10...that's a long ways away, and I've already been werewolfless for about a month (complete torture). And I fear we may lose more people if we wait that long.

I'm sure you've PMed potential players, right? Perhaps you should PM some members who have never played WW before; new players are always fun.

If we have to, I wouldn't mind playing with only 10 or 11 of us. As long as the roles are divided out fairly. (Three wolves would seem a bit much within such a small group, I think.)

[Rikae]

Leggy, I suppose I should inform you...Macalaure and I won't be able to play after July 17th.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hmm....it's a tough choice. But I'd really hate to see this game delayed until July 10...that's a long ways away, and I've already been werewolfless for about a month (complete torture). And I fear we may lose more people if we wait that long.

I'm sure you've PMed potential players, right? Perhaps you should PM some members who have never played WW before; new players are always fun.

If we have to, I wouldn't mind playing with only 10 or 11 of us. As long as the roles are divided out fairly. (Three wolves would seem a bit much within such a small group, I think.)
So I take it people are more for starting now even if we have few players? Hmm, maybe I'll find some people whom I haven't PMed this far. But if we don't find new people, the game will probably then be just fast, dramatic and deadly.

Combined with the roleplaying it may be even interesting...

In any case, if you want to start now, please send me these personalities of yours... otherwise you risk I'll portray you wrongly in the narration...

[Gil-Galad]

i hate to say this, but i find myself getting more and more distant from the downs, i wil ltry to be more pridutcive during the game, but i am just saying that i may be a liability(there goes my gifted PM) so legate, as moderator, i give you the choice of either having me or letting me go

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

According to the planned schedule, the game is starting tomorrow, just something like 25 and half an hour from now.

Here is the last chance for you to object against the start of the game tomorrow.

Please bear in mind that we are on 10 people now. If I consider Gil-Galad as half, then 9 and half people. Unless you decide to stop the start of this game (you have one day to do that) or unless someone miraculously appears to join us, prepare for a fast and bloody game. (I'll possibly cut the number of the Wolves to two, then, to make it possible to win for the innocents).

Not many people have sent me their roles, so bear in mind that I may improvise on your behavior in the narrations (or find another solution). You can still do so, however.

The game roles will be sent to you right before the start of the game, in the last hour (so about 24 hours from now).

See you tomorrow.

EDIT: Maybe better: 11 people. Mith responded in a rather positive way to my invitation. Don't say you wouldn't've missed her.

[Brinniel]

Seeing such a small number is rather depressing, but what else can you do? The only solution I can think of to give everyone double roles. Haha...that'd be interesting (not to mention confusing). :rolleyes:

Oops, I keep forgetting about my bio. I'll get to work on that right away, Legate.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Hehe, double roles. That seems like a fun idea!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hehe, double roles. That seems like a fun idea!
No way. :cool:

One last thing to add. We have agreed that roleplaying will be compulsory in this game (and who does not like it, he should have said earlier - there was plenty time to do it). This means, you post in-character, but from a second-person point of view, i.e. describing what your character does and says, like
Legate of Amon Lanc stepped forward. "I did not know he was innocent!" he shouted at Legate of Amon Rûdh.
Not
I did not know he was innocent!
In last minute retraction frays, you may eventually skip it and post just votes (but it will be nicer to and maybe it will help you not to end in these last minute frays).

AND, since we are doing this, you should leave the smilies and your signatures out of the posts. With the signatures, you can either set it in your profile (in the "Options"), or you may check it individually at each post you make (it's down there under the "Addittional Options", "SHOW YOUR SIGNATURE", so you just un-check the box).

The roles will be sent out shortly...

From then on, no posting on this thread except for apologies for not participating due to RL reasons or game rules questions.

The night falls down...

[Nogrod]

From then on, no posting on this thread except for apologies for not participating due to RL reasons or game rules questions.So I managed it before the deadline... to just say I'm back and all in for the adventures of the outlaws.

With the roleplaying-element in I think a shorter game is preferable anyhow.

See you in-game then fellows! :)

[Mithalwen]

Err have I missed "Shortly"? Leggie

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

1. Please apologies to everyone, I have to send yet the remaining PMs thus the start will be a few minutes later than announced. (But that has no effect on tomorrow's start).

2. Mith: Shortly? Nothing wrong if you still play with us, I hope? If yes, then turn invisible :)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, so just to emphasise, from now no other posting on this thread, except for absence explanations or general rules questions. If you have any personal questions, please feel free to PM me.

I also hope you are all in invisible mode now.

Day 1 starts tomorrow precisely at 8 PM GMT.

[Gil-Galad]

Day 1 starts tomorrow precisely at 8 PM GMT.

i said it before and i'l lsay it again, i will be gone for 3 days, so from thursday to saturday i am absent in the game... i could've sworen i mentioned this...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

i said it before and i'l lsay it again, i will be gone for 3 days, so from thursday to saturday i am absent in the game... i could've sworen i mentioned this...
But you can be here on Day 1 and then again on Day 3, so that's not such a big problem, I think...

[Mithalwen]

I have just got a message that my Dad has been taken to hospital and is having tests . I will be going there shortly and will not be participating tonight. Whether I will be able to participate tomorrow will depend on the situation.

I am so sorry. If there is anyone who could take my place now before play starts ...then feel free. I will be here if I can but obviously I don't know what will happen.

Mithalwen.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Mith, I don't want to make matters complicated for you, so for peace of heart you may pull off if you wish. Or we might just let it go at least for now; if someone comes, then he may take your post for a while or for the whole game; if you return later, then you'll just miss a day or so. If not, then we'll simply play with one less person. So if you had another opinion, let us know. Hope everything will be okay with your dad.

[Nogrod]

All the best wishes, and courage for you Mith!

Mith, I don't want to make matters complicated for you, so for peace of heart you may pull off if you wish. Or we might just let it go at least for now; if someone comes, then he may take your post for a while or for the whole game; if you return later, then you'll just miss a day or so.I think we should keep Mith in if no one will openly declare to replace her place. In the best occasion it's just a Day off.

I was just thinking of referring to those not present on any given Day (Mith on Day1 at least, Gil on Day2) as being our scouts to check the wilderness around us. Is that okay with you people?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

All the best wishes, and courage for you Mith!

I think we should keep Mith in if no one will openly declare to replace her place. In the best occasion it's just a Day off.

I was just thinking of referring to those not present on any given Day (Mith on Day1 at least, Gil on Day2) as being our scouts to check the wilderness around us. Is that okay with you people?
I completely agree with you, Nogrod, and to "warm up my own soup" a little bit, I already thought about the way of referring to those who are absent in a very similar way. So I suppose other people will be fine with that...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

In the end I decided to let the opening narration more "vague", so characters are not named in particular (though you who are mentioned should find yourselves in that), so you may consider it a roleplaying-aspect and include introducing yourselves in the posts, (and things like asking "hey you over there, what's your name?") I think at least you have something to head for in your posts, which is I think handy on Day 1. Later of course, you'll be already known by the names.

And Mith, if you read this and some way happen to come to participate yet this Day, I leave on yourself the narration, you may say you returned from the hunt as your introduction and normally play then.

Others, have fun!

[Mithalwen]

OK since noone has bailed me out I will play but don't expect much today ...

Dad is OK .. he had perhaps a TIA but possibly a trapped nerve (complicated) ... but they didn't discharge him until eleven and I didn't get in to work til 10:30 since I had ot take a letter to his GP and get a prescription made up blah blah ..so I ma shattered and I will have to make up time at work then hopefully get to meet the old family friend ... so I will get a token post up... I will try to vote but I won'thave much time to make a careful study. However once today is safely over you can expect more if I survive.

thanks for the support - it is greatly appreciated.

Love

Mith

[Nogrod]

OK since noone has bailed me out I will play but don't expect much today ...

Dad is OK .. Good to hear that!

And welcome back when you have time for it.

[Lhunardawen]

OK since noone has bailed me out I will play but don't expect much today ...

Dad is OK .. he had perhaps a TIA but possibly a trapped nerve (complicated) ... but they didn't discharge him until eleven and I didn't get in to work til 10:30 since I had ot take a letter to his GP and get a prescription made up blah blah ..so I ma shattered and I will have to make up time at work then hopefully get to meet the old family friend ... so I will get a token post up... I will try to vote but I won'thave much time to make a careful study. However once today is safely over you can expect more if I survive.

thanks for the support - it is greatly appreciated.

Love

Mith
Thank God for that! I hope he recovers quickly. Glad to see you back, mum, and I hope you do get to play properly. :)

[Nogrod]

Just a question on the way of doing things. I have used two quotes in my last post. Is that okay or should we use quotes differently?

Like... (the example is stupid but I'm only trying to show the way of doing it differently if the quotes are not good ideas for an RPG-style of playing).

---

Nogrod stood up and said:

"One thing that struck me lately was when I remembered Legate's discussions from the morning. I'm pretty sure that he was contradicting himself when he said: "Do not look for any hints in the narrations... I will put some there."
I'm pretty much secure he's Mîm and we should get rid of him. Or then I'm totally wrong and he deserves my apologies."

With that Nogrod nodded to the others around him and sat back again.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I apologize for not giving a notice to you, some RL trouble got in the way

Narration coming up in several minutes, then I'll explain more and answer eventual other questions - not delaying things now with it.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Y'know, I think not posting at all on the first day works better for me, because every game I've been in here, people have called me suspicious for my first game post. :(

[Isabellkya]

Sorry for posting after the official end of day. I wasn't really paying attention to the clock.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, now I was about to praise you players for respecting DL even though I wasn't posting it, now I have to retract this a little bit, but never mind, these posts can be kept. They are not undermining the narration, if anything, so it's okay. After all, deadline was not officially announced then; it's my fault. Just to explain this, I ended unplannedly and unexpectedly stuck down in town, which in one way I could have thought about as a possible danger, though on the other hand I thought to be here enough time before the DL to put up the narration.

Nevertheless, thanks to all who respected the DL and thanks if you waited here till the narration was put up; I promise I'm not going to make the same mistake again. Tomorrow's start of the day will be at proper time and marked by a proper narration. (In this way, I'd like to ask all those with Nightly activities to send me their PMs at least one hour before the start of the day, so that the narration can really be put up in time. Thanks.)

[Nogrod]

Y'know, I think not posting at all on the first day works better for me, because every game I've been in here, people have called me suspicious for my first game post. :(To me free-riding is much worse, not depending on the role of anyone. It's against the spirit of the game where everyone should try to play the game together and not only think for one's survival-odds...

Think of a game where everyone adopted the tactics you propose and no one would say anything at all on Day1 (or any other Day for that matter)... :mad:

Would that be a game? Playing a game demands that people get involved and actually play.

One either plays with others or does not...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Exactly, to play without posting is not playing, even if it's tactical. And especially in this game with the narration aspect.

But please from now, no dead-chatter until the game is over.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Just a question on the way of doing things. I have used two quotes in my last post. Is that okay or should we use quotes differently?
I think you players answered the question for yourselves. It is nice to have it without using the "quote" function if you can, but especially in the last minutes, this cannot be done easily. So unless you are forced to, you may try to avoid it; but in the last moments, when you are in a hurry, many things are forgiven :)

Gil or anyone who would be going to be absent - please could you post it here on this thread before you will, just as confirmation that you indeed will be absent, and including the information how long? Because I'd like to put that to the narrations as well, and I'd like to have it confirmed and know about the time of your departure/eventual return.

[Gil-Galad]

Leving thursday day morning around 8 AM, return time saturday evening around 6-7 PM

[Brinniel]

Leving thursday day morning around 8 AM, return time saturday evening around 6-7 PM
Translated into GMT, that'd be leaving 2pm Thursday, returning 12-1am Sunday. You do live in MST Gil, right? Because that's my timezone as well... :p

Anyways, I do have a question, Legate.

Are we allowed to make lists in order to keep track of who voted who in the previous day, as well as keeping up to date on the vote count? For example :

---

Brinn picked up a stick and began to draw in the dirt. When he finished, he stood up and said:

"To avoid confusion, I've made a list of the vote count so far."

Brinn pointed to the writing in the dirt:

(insert vote count)

---

I don't know about everyone else, but these lists usually help me from becoming absolutely confused. :rolleyes:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Brinn: if you do it this way, I have no objections against lists :D Yes, I think they are quite helpful. Though your numbers are not as big, so maybe they won't be needed as much...

Gil: Thanks for the info (now I got a little bit confused because of the timezones, trying to think if you indeed intended it as Brinn presented it, nevertheless, it makes little difference).

[Isabellkya]

Just to let people know; I am going clamming Saturday morning @ 5am PST , not sure how long that will take as I've never been. So yeah, just letting people know. Thanks.

[Nogrod]

With all these timezones around it would be really nice if people could check their own timezone from the bottom of their BD-page and give us the times on GMT which is the universal standard and the difference to which the BD-site gives to everyone.

I can't check from my page how many hours minus or plus to GMT is PST or MST but everyone living in those regions can as it is there all the time in their browser.

That would be much easier.

[Isabellkya]

5am PST = 1pm GMT I believe.

[Nogrod]

5am PST = 1pm GMT I believe.You can check it easily from the bottom of your BD-page... And anyhow your message was sent on 7.22 PM GMT. The starting of the Day is 8PM GMT so about an half an hour from now...

[Mithalwen]

It is 9 pm in the UK which is on BST so 8pm GMT....

[Nogrod]

I will be able to participate these early hours of the Day a little and hopefully something in the middle of the Day (gametime), but of the last hours of the Day2 I can't give any promises. We have a meeting with the team that is going to organise a summer-camp in August tomorrow evening (last part of Day2 gametime) and I'm not sure how often and how much I can be online or thinking about the game in general.

My apologies. But it's a question of bringing together the schedules of eight persons and I can't rule tomorrow evening out just because a WW-game is on...

But I'll try to take part as much as I can - and in the best occasion we have dealt all the matters before the deadline (ingame) so that I can come in with some effort in the last hours as well...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Even though Isabellkya did not vote for two days and therefore by rules should be eliminated, I decided to grant her mercy for now because I think she contributed at least by posts quite enough. And considering the original rule was set counting with a "normal" (non-RPG game), I think now the more important is the posting (my original concern was, that if I wrote that it is needed to just post, then someone may just post "Hi there" and go away. Since we have compulsory roleplaying, just "hi there" does not suffice, so there is no problem with it).

I'll grant Isabell mercy for at least one more day, f.ex. if there are some RL issues at her, then if she does not post at all, I'll cut her out after that.

[Gil-Galad]

i have returned, but i do not plan on replying till tomorrow for i am still really tired and my head is not on straight

[Nogrod]

Nice death-scene Legate - although a bit different I was writing in my last post... :D

But no problem... varied stories are the best ones!

It was fun as long as it lasted. :rolleyes:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Nice death-scene Legate - although a bit different I was writing in my last post... :D

But no problem... varied stories are the best ones!

It was fun as long as it lasted. :rolleyes:
Oh, I hope you don't mind - I had it prepared a long time before and you wrote this in your last post two minutes before :)

[Nogrod]

As I said, no problem...

varied stories are the best ones!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Just an announcement to all players. I'm leaving now and won't have computer access for some time, so I will not be posting the narrations. BUT my wonderful helper Volo has agreed to take the work of co-mod (with the help of undead Mr.Nogrod if it is needed), so from now on, he will post the narrations and all PMs please send to him. (I'll PM all the Nightwalkers now in particular as well, so that no one sends PM to me, thus wasting a kill or ability).
And don't think I'm losing contact, for with Volo's eyes I shall see, and with his ears I shall hear, and nothing shall be hidden from me! And you will see my will working through him.

So, children, be nice; behave as if I were watching you (and I will!), if a Wolf knocked on the door, do not open. I'll surely be back before the game ends. Bye for now.

[Volo]

I hope I'll be able to keep things under control. At the moment I'm lacking a computer to use at any time, but I think I'll manage with all the narrations etc. Mîm won't be active in discussions, though.

Good luck!

[the guy who be short]

If I'm alive tomorrow, I'm afraid I may be participating less. I have a minor operation at 2:15pm local time (1:15 GMT) and I'm not sure how sedated I'll be afterwards... It should probably be alright, but just in case I don't come back after about midday local time, that's why.

[Gil-Galad]

i also am at risk of losing my computer due to family troubles (again) so i will try to make this day my best...

[Nogrod]

I know the dead can't talk but I just want to say how much I would love to be there now! This is getting so much fun!

Please play and let this Day be a remarkable day!

[Volo]

Sorry for the wrong deadline... I just got my mended computer attached to the net so I was in a hurry.

[Brinniel]

I know the dead can't talk but I just want to say how much I would love to be there now! This is getting so much fun!

Please play and let this Day be a remarkable day!

I agree. I will be watching the Day with much interest. :D


....Okay, shutting up now...

[Nogrod]

That was really an amusing set up and the roleplaying factor made a nice twist! Thanks Legate for this experience! Well planned and nicely fitted in the story of the outlaws in Amon Rûdh. The special roles were just great - and I knew there was Andróg in the game! *gloats just a little* :rolleyes:

Rikae: great work - even though stealing the bow from Macalaure was perhaps a bit too easy task for you... :D

Macalaure: happily I was lynched as otherwise I would have run straight at you on the next Day. I was so sure you were a werewolf - before I got a PM from Rikae where she asked me quite rhetorically if I'd guess from whom she stole the bow... after that I knew you were innocent. Well done anyway.

tgwbs: I loved that little "dialogue" we had! To me personally it was the most fun part of this game. I don't know if you have noticed one thing though. The last time I was after you when you were a wolf you behaved somewhat the exact same way... There is a kind of aggressiviness or even arrogance in your style at those moments... or should I say an open annoyance... I'm not too good with these finer meanings of the words but I hope you understand what I mean. Check that the next time or I will surely nail you then. :)

btw. my last remarks in my last post towards guy were not so much meant to release my suspicions on him but to kind of salute him for a good game - and at that point I indeed thought that as he had been one of the really few players who had really put themselves into this game and played with risk I wished to thank him for a good game in that special manner.

Lhuna: you really are a cunning lady! I had a bad feeling about almost all you posted after Day1 but couldn't ever put my finger on what it was. Surely the guy helped in this as he kept keeping my attention in all his questions so I had no time to delve deeper into what you had said. But I do have a piece of paper here beside my computer where I have written in the end of Day2 "Lhuna = wolf?"...

Indeed after my death we had a few PMs with Legate about possible co-modding this game during his absence and I indeed told him that Lhuna and Mac are the last wolves... happily I was lynched before I could unleash a full-attack on Mac.

Congrats to all outlaws and a bow to our wolves who made this an interesting game in the end!


I would very much like to hear how the Nightly actions took place or failed to happen! So who was protecting who and who missed who?

[Rikae]

Well, I was going to wait for Mac before joining the discussion, but apparently he's still at that darn movie. :rolleyes:

Anyway, I was supposed to steal the bow from Beleg, and, having done so, I would win the geme if I was alive at the end, whether the wolves or the outlaws won.

Up until the very last minute on day one, I was planning to try to steal from Brinniel, oddly enough. I sensed a giftedish vibe from her (it was interesting to find out she was Turin after all), but at the last minute, I decided to try Mac first, and Brinniel the next day if that failed.

On night 3, I protected Macalaure. I'm still wondering whether that succeeded, or whether the wolves missed the kill; I assumed they did, but Volo's narration makes it sound as though they attacked every night.

On night 4, I protected myself; (my one certain success); on night 5, I protected Macalaure again. I didn't think the wolves would fall for his "hunter" hint, and hoped they'd assume he was Androg (I was terrified they'd go for me again).

So, obviously, today I was bluffing about being able to protect either one of us...

As for just going back and forth between protecting myself and Mac, my logic, as I told Legate in a PM, was "at least I know he's innocent".

I think this has to be some kind of record for the most missed kills - and the fact that three missed kills was followed by three deaths in one night...wow. What a strange & interesting game this was...

Legate, this was a great theme; I loved the storyline and, though I was doubtful at first, the RP as well.

Noggie, I felt terrible about lynching you that day; your last posts practically brought tears to my eyes!

Brilliant hunting, Brinniel; if you hadn't made the right choice on night 5, all would have been lost.

And I have to hand it to the wolves; Jay, I thought you were innocent until the last day, and, Lhuna, though I was uneasy about you I couldn't find anything solid to rest my suspicions on.

Awesome game all around!

This is one for the WW history books, for sure!

:D

[Nogrod]

Brilliant hunting, Brinniel; if you hadn't made the right choice on night 5, all would have been lost. Absolutely! I almost forgot that! It was a great hunt indeed Brinn! *bows down, really low*

[Gil-Galad]

well i survived this game now too... i tried to be as active as i possibly could and it was a short game too...

[Brinniel]

Brilliant hunting, Brinniel; if you hadn't made the right choice on night 5, all would have been lost.
Absolutely! I almost forgot that! It was a great hunt indeed Brinn! *bows down, really low*
Thanks. I must say, I've never been so happy about dying. :D
Though I felt pretty sure I would finally die that Night, I didn't find out for sure until hours later since I was at work. So, I was anxious that entire shift wondering if I picked the right person...

Okay, here were a few of my thoughts throughout the game:

After Day 1, I was almost confident tgwbs was a wolf, mostly for his vote, and he remained at the top of my suspicion until Day 3.

On Day 3, I started out only slightly suspicious of Nogrod, but as he kept posting my suspicion increased. I became less suspicious of tgwbs because his reasoning against Nogrod was so reasonable. His last post made me start to doubt myself, but by then it was too late. Sorry Nogrod, you were too easy a target and I was too easily persuaded by the wolves. :rolleyes:

Night 4 began with much frustration, and I decided to focus on the quiets because I felt confident at least one was a wolf. With Gil, there wasn't much to go off of due to his absence, but Izzy's posts had little content and she seemed the most suspicious to me. I decided to leave tgwbs alone because not only was I uncertain about him, but I was scared to death how much damage the death of another loud player would do to the village if he were innocent. As the Day began, I analysed Izzy more carefully as you can see, and by the time I was done and along with Mac's confidence of his own analysis, I was absolutely positive she was a wolf.

Night 5 began with more anger and frustration than anything because not only was I wrong again, but I realised if I died and hunted an innocent (aside from Nienor), I would end and lose this game for the innocents. In order not to make another mistake, I took a long and careful analysis of every player (except Mac and Rikae, who I knew were innocent). Previously, I had been confident that if the wolf wasn't Izzy, it'd be Gil. Then I realised how unlikely it'd be that he was a wolf (or gifted) due to his extended absence. And though his attack on me made me uneasy, I remembered how like him that was. Besides...the last time Gil was a wolf, he posted a lot and even if he didn't do that again, I would think he'd at least provide a little more information. Of Mithalwen, I was confident she was either Nienor or wolf pretending to be Nienor. And if she was a wolf, I thought tgwbs could be Nienor. On Lhuna...she was someone I never really suspected through the entire game. But on this Night, I came to realise I trusted her too much and she was just too sensible and her votes too, well...safe. She was the only one that in the beginning I was confident of her innocence, and knowing my history of being inaccurate (not only in this game), I decided she just had to be guilty. So, I picked her.

My Hunts:*

Day 1: tgwbs
Night 2: tgwbs
Day 2: tgwbs
Night 3: tgwbs
Day 3: tgwbs
Night 4: Izzy
Day 4: Gil-Galad
Night 5: Lhuna

* I think this is all right, but I didn't save my PMs to Legate and Volo, so I can't remember for sure.

The Day hunts weren't as useful as I realised if Nienor were at risk of being lynched, she'd reveal (unless she were absent). But of course, I was careful.

Just a notice- If I had survived onto Day 5, I would have revealed.

PM quotes are coming next, because I know how you all love to read them (and I hope you do the same, wolves). :)

[Brinniel]

First of all, my role:
You are an innocent Outlaw, but your true name is Túrin. You are hiding among the Outlaws, though Beleg, your Ranger friend, is among the ranks of the Outlaws as well. He is innocent and hiding under the name of Macalaure. He knows your identity, as you know his. What more, rumor says that your sister, Nienor, went to search for you and is hiding among the Outlaws as well. She's innocent, though you don't know in what disguise she's hiding (it can be even a male disguise!). In these grave circumstances, you cannot take her safely home until the wolf threat is removed. Though you fear if anything happened to her, you probably won't be able to bear the loss and end your own life soon after.
You post on the game thread during the Day. You may PM your friend Beleg during the Night. At any time of the Day and once per Night, you may PM me name of one player whom you kill in case you are lynched or in any other way killed. You cannot PM any other player than Beleg. You win when all the wolves are dead.

And the discussions begin (though little is said here, as there wasn't much to discuss):

Just as much as I need to seek out the wolves, I've got to avoid Nienor. I don't know if she/he knows who I am (probably not), but I'm hoping I'll pick up some sort of hint from whoever has this role. Because if he/she is killed, I'm a goner too apparently. And I'm not sure if it works the same way vice versa.

Of course, my main aim is to take down a wolf if I die, but if Nienor's death indeed follows mine like mine follows her's, then I think if I happened to take her down with me, it'd at least be better than selecting an ordinary, which would result in the loss of three innocents rather than two...if that makes any sense.

Anyways, I'm slightly curious on what Nienor's ability may be...perhaps a Seer?

[Brinniel]

A little more talking this time:

So, Shasta was Saeros. Like the narration says, I'm not sure what that means. Whose side was he on? Was he a cobbler maybe?

Our main problem now is the wolves are still hidden. I'm still suspicious of tgwbs, but part of me is not so sure... Any thoughts?


Let me see...

1. Who's a wolf

Rikae ~ wildly throws suspicion in #20, then goes elegantly along the consensus of killing Shasta: suspicious

Nogrod ~ his switch to tgwbs irks me, not because tgwbs seems innocent, but because this move doesn't fit with what Nogrod said before (though he said he might vote tgwbs). Otherwise, he looks good to me.

Lhuna ~ makes so much sense, it almost hurts. When I was a wolf with her, she was more shy. Feels like an ordo, but I'm not too sure yet. She could still go either way.

Gil ~ as strange as ever. I get an innocent feel from him, though.

tgwbs ~ #21: roleplay and accusations based on roleplay
#22: his vote is bad enough, but the reasoning behind it is even worse (putting me in a box with Isabell and xyzzy). Then again, tgwbs usually doesn't care a lot about his day one vote.

a little suspicious:
tgwbs, Rikae

neutral:
Lhuna, Nogrod, Gil


2. Who's a good wolf kill and should be protected (assuming the wolves will try to kill a good player who is not yet dangerous to them, which many wolves seem to do in night 2)

Rikae ~ if not a wolf, then a possible victim, because, apart from #20, she only really goes after Shasta

Nogrod ~ in a village this silent, killing Nogrod would be most unsportsmanlike.

Mac ~ this is difficult to judge for me. He, once more, managed to get a few people to be suspicious of him, which is very good for him. I'm not sure whether he might be a good kill because he leaves no useful tracks, or maybe seemed giftedish anywhere.

Brinn ~ careful in the beginning, but very productive later on. It would be mean by the wolves to kill her so early once more, especially on her birthday. Her early carefulness might have been interpreted as gifted, but her later behaviour does not stand out in this respect.

Lhuna ~ productive and helpful. Might be killed because she doesn't leave a track towards a wolf, since she voted Mac.

Gil ~ I've never, ever seen a wolf kill Gil.

tgwbs ~ leaves no tracks at all, but is also likely to get a decent share of suspicion on Day Two.

Good kills maybe
Rikae, Lhuna

Undecided about
Mac, Brinn

Bad kills
Nogrod, Gil, tgwbs

Suggestions?

Another idea: some (including me, to be honest) were a little upset about the behaviour of xyzzy and Isabellkya. Might a wolf be so annoyed to kill one of them? It would be a kill which at least does not leave any trails. I could imagine that some could do this. But then, even if this was the case, the two probably aren't worth to be protected, as mean as it may sound...


So right now, I still suspect tgwbs the most. Nogrod is a bit suspicious to me as well, but he is always a tough one to figure out. Rikae I'm still not sure about, but your suspicions make sense, so I will watch out for her. Lhuna I have no clue...I am not aware of her normal playing style yet.

Of our two silent ones, Izzy finally did appear after the deadline, so I think she may be around when the Day starts. xyzzy is still a question. If the wolves kill one of them (which is very possible), I think it will be Izzy. xyzzy has a better chance of getting lynched tomorrow if he's a no-show again.

Of those who have posted, I think Lhuna would be the wolves' most likely choice because as you said, she leaves no tracks. Nor is she gathering any suspicion.

Mithalwen is also a possibly if the wolves are stuck, but I doubt it, as it wouldn't exactly be very nice of them.

I think, unless they are big risk-takers, it is more likely the wolves will take down someone who leaves little tracks than someone they think is gifted. After all, it is always hard to tell who the gifteds are after only one Day.



I don't know whom to protect. Lhuna looks like an obvious choice, but a) I have a feeling the wolves won't choose her and b) I've got a vague fuzzy feeling about her.

I won't protect Isabell, xyzzy or Mith.
I don't really like to protect Nogrod, Gil or Lhuna.
I can't protect tgwbs if you hunt him. Otherwise he might be a candidate, because if he's innocent, he's a good pick.
I could protect Rikae, more or less for the same reason.
I could go safe and protect myself.


It's a tough choice. I say protect who you think will most likely be killed (Rikae or Lhuna in my opinion). We have no idea who is Nienor, so everyone is a candidate. If you protect the person who is attacked and it is Nienor, you saved two lives. If that protected person is attacked and is just an ordinary innocent, you still saved a life.

I have to submit my choice to Legate soon. In objections for me going after tgwbs?


Alright, you take tgwbs, I'll take Rikae.

[Brinniel]

More:

I just knew xyzzy would be innocent, partially due to meta-reasons, I admit. With our small number and two wolves, Legate wouldn't dare place someone unreliable like xyzzy with the position of wolf (especially after what happened last time he was a wolf).

Anyways, you did manage to save Rikae's life. Congratulations.

Not to mention, it's nice to know we have another known innocent out there...

So who could be our wolves?

Obviously, I'm still set on tgwbs. But I think if he's not one, then Nogrod's got to be. I really have no idea where the other wolf is hiding. Maybe I should take a better look at Lhuna...

What do you think?
Here's something interesting:
My only problem with that is that it looks like Turín is quite a sleepy person as well and if his fate is tied to that of Nienor we might lose them both by accidentally lynching Turín.
I find it odd that he interprets the narration to think that Turin is one of the quiet ones. Either Nogrod is sorely mistaken, or he knows something...

And I'm still wondering:

Who is Nienor? Now, this is something that is bugging me, most likely because my fate is tied to her's, which adds a lot more tension to each day. I still have no idea, but possible candidates are:

Nogrod: For his comment above. Plus, if Nienor indeed is the Seer, they are known to seem suspicious, as he is acting.

Lhuna: After voting for you yesterday, she completely drops suspicion without explanation. Now that I look at it, Lhuna is starting to look more and more likely...


Thanks! It was so funny to see how Nogrod was so sure he had been protected. :D

I have a strong feeling that Lhuna is innocent. You have a good point about her being Nienor. Actually, before she even posted, I thought that, as a mod, I would probably choose her for this role. For some reason, it seems like a very fitting role for her.

This leaves Nogrod, tgwbs, Mith, Gil and Izzy.

Of the latter three, one cannot say much. I'll give them the benefit of doubt and will concentrate on Nogrod and Guy toNight. I'm very sure that one of the two is evil. It's not impossible that both are.

Nogrod's being very odd in general in this game, but I cannot think that he behaves like this just because he has a special role - except maybe that of a cobbler, which would explain the amount of misinformation that he spreads.


So, it's really important that if I die toNight, I take down a wolf. tgwbs and Nogrod are our best choices, and I agree there is a possibility it could be both, though I slightly doubt it. But if one is innocent, the other has just got to be guilty.

Also, knowing there's a thief out there, I can't help but wonder how many special roles there really are...

I just remembered...Nogrod said that he was planning to play differently in this game. So, you're right...his strange behaviour doesn't especially mean a special role. So now I'm really not sure what to think about him..

tgwbs is a tough one...sometimes I feel so sure he's guilty, and other times I second-guess myself. After all, I'm usually very misled when I pursue someone. But the thing is, other than him and Nogrod, I don't really have any suspects. I'm sure there's a wolf among Lhuna, Mithalwen, Gil-Galad, and Izzy, but I have no idea who.

Nogrod's strange behaviour could mean wolvery, or it could just be his new experiment. I'm still suspicious of him, but I just don't know...

I feel almost a bit ridiculous choosing tgwbs again since he has been my choice since Day 1...I'd feel terrible if I was wrong. But then again, I really don't know who else to go for; he's my top suspect, and I just have to go with my gut.

[Nogrod]

Nogrod's being very odd in general in this game, but I cannot think that he behaves like this just because he has a special role - except maybe that of a cobbler, which would explain the amount of misinformation that he spreads.
Nogrod's strange behaviour could mean wolvery, or it could just be his new experiment. I'm still suspicious of him, but I just don't know...
Now where did these come from? :D

"Nogrod's being very odd in general in this game"?
Like my normal innocent self who wishes to turn every stone and dislikes those who don't take part but sneak in the shadows...

"the amount of misinformation that he spreads"?
Please Macalaure explain this to me as well... :)

"Nogrod's strange behaviour could mean wolvery, or it could just be his new experiment."?
Yes I said I'd like to play differently (meaning I would do all the "homework" I'm used to do when I have time but would have only posted highly considered one-liners) but that all went away with the RPG-style decision as I thought it was enough to adjust to one basic difference...

But please, I would like to learn new things... why did you felt I was different and thence suspicious as to myself I thought I was playing my normal innocent way?

[Brinniel]

A lot more:


"Damn it!" said Brinn. "I was sure we were right this time."
Legate sure said it for me. *curses again* Though I admit, his last few posts made me think him less guilty. A wolf would've given up and not say anything. We have to get a wolf toMorrow, we just have to. At least his posts will be helpful to us...

Do you think it's possible Mithalwen is Nienor? She seemed so certain of Noggie's innocence...

And who on earth are our wolves? I really want to take a closer look at Izzy, she seems pretty suspicious right now. What to do, what to do... I need to go look at Nogrod's posts and think about this.

On a different note, I'm rather pleased I survived past Day 3. Finally! *prances around in a field of daisies*

Yeah, I was pretty happy about finally breaking my curse... :rolleyes:

I took a quick look at Nogrod's posts, and I'm not sure how useful he will be. I mean, first he speculates that I'm either a sleeper, or I'm a seer, which is completely off. At the end of the Day, he shares his thoughts, thinking you and Rikae likely to be wolves, and we know both of you aren't. If the village heeds his words, you might be in for some trouble tomorrow...

These are the only things I can get from Nogrod:

-The possibility of Androg (which you mentioned something similar last Night)
-the possible innocence of tgwbs
-the possible guilt of Lhuna
-the very likely chance that there are wolves among the quiet ones

Here are my thoughts:

Lhuna: It's hard to tell, but I still just can't see wolvishness in her. But at the same time...she doesn't seem like an ordinary. I think it more likely she's Angrog/thief/whatever, but knowing me, I could be totally wrong.

Mithalwen: I find it strange that an ordinary Innocent would be so confident of someone's innocence. One option is that she is Nienor, a seer who dreamt of Nogrod. Or, she is a wolf who's trying to avoid suspicion by defending someone she knows is innocent (though I'd think her smart enough to know this could easily backfire). Or, I'm just putting too much into this and she really is just an ordinary.

tgwbs: I've been so suspicious of him, but now I'm beginning to doubt myself. Some of his arguments make great sense. But then again...I just don't know.

Gil-Galad: I have no idea what to think. Part of me thinks Legate wouldn't give him such a role knowing he'd be away for multiple days, but I can't base these things off meta-reasons. I did notice that he posted on a thread recently, so hopefully he will be back toMorrow.

Izzy: Her firsts posts have little content, she accuses Rikae, then accuses you of being a silent one, and then is quick to jump on the Nogrod bandwagon. Remember, Nogrod said to look at the third voter, and I think there's a chance she cross-posted and didn't see that comment. And if she is a clumsy wolf, then this action of her's isn't surprising. Right now, she's my highest suspect.


I will later take another look at Lhuna, Izzy and Mith. I spent quite some time yesterday looking at tgwbs, and I don't see him very guilty.

A lot of meta-reasoning: Now, why did the wolves miss their kill? Did Androg protect somebody and Legate had fun with a slightly misleading narration? Otherwise, the wolves simply failed to kill. Apart from Gil and Izzy (who was evil in her recent first game, I think), I couldn't imagine that anybody would just forget to send it (why does Nogrod feel so special concerning this?)! But in no way these two are our two wolves. Problems with the forum software? Legate's profile doesn't give an Email address or something, so if the pm system was down, I actually wouldn't know how to contact him. Or maybe there was simply a misunderstanding between the wolves (wolf a: you go send the kill; wolf b: ok, you send the kill...). I'm extremely confused.

1. The thief used the bow to protect the wolves' intended victim.You all claim that this did not hoppen because there is no sign of struggle; but it could be that someone wants us to remain uncertain about the role of the thief..."Rikae looked at the sky accusingly..."In that case, the wolves are likely inexperienced, and/or Beleg and the thief quite astute.
Is that a slip of Androg? Did she protect someone at night and was dissatisfied with the ambiguous narration?


On revealing: As the Days continue, I'm sure more pressure will be put on us Gifteds, so I thought I should just mention this. I'm not real keen on revealing since I don't know much, and since I wouldn't reveal you, I could only expose Rikae of her innocence. I would only reveal if things looked real bad for me during the Day and I knew I would be a goner otherwise before the Day was over. Actually when I think about it, if I were forced to reveal it wouldn't have to be so terrible. If the thief can protect and didn't protect me the night before, I'd have an extra Day. And assuming Nienor isn't attacked, she could reveal the next Day so that she could be protected when I die. Of course, there are so many other factors that could make that go wrong. Like I said, I don't intend to reveal unless I have no other choice.

Jay isn't impossible. Last I looked I found him more innocent. If he isn't, he's playing marvelously, I think, so I will look elsewhere first. I can't judge Gil before he hasn't contributed something again. I'd consider voting him in case he doesn't.

I just took a new look at Lhuna and I still don't see her suspicious, as much as I tried. One thing caught my eye:
"I think the wolves won't necessarily want to kill the loudest first, as they're ones who could quite easily get into trouble."
If she's evil, then this is an interesting statement. Why would a wolf so openly, and so coolly, give away their nightly train of thought? Sure, some would, but is Lhuna such a pokerface?

On revealing:
If we reveal, we maybe should reveal as a whole. I mean, after all, I have no special power worth of hiding anymore. Unless you and Nienor get killed, we will have 3 known innocents and 4 unknowns, which isn't all that bad (I doubt the wolves will kill me, or Rikae again (unless they also noticed that possible slip)). Unless one of us is in peril, I think it will be best to keep hiding for another day. Tomorrow will be very interesting even this way. Once we reveal, we will then go down one by one, one way or the other, but our chances to pick the wolf from the remaining four or three (without Nienor) aren't bad.


I thought about that. The only problem with that is if we end up lynching the thief or they die toNight, you will be our protector once again and exposed, the wolves wouldn't hesitate to kill you. I guess it'd still give Nienor and me an extra Day, but we'd most definitely end up going down in one blow.

On who to pick it's a tough choice. I'm not sure Izzy's our wolf, but it just has to either be her or Gil and I don't know anything about him. I just don't feel that a wolfish Mith would pursue defending someone so strongly. If she's innocent, I think there's a good chance the wolves will attack her, so hopefully this thief will protect her. I don't really want to not take the opportunity to hunt a possible wolf...the village needs it. But a three innocent kill would be brutal; if we all died toNight you guys would have to get the next lynchee right or it's over. Though, when I think about it, we'd fall in the same situation even with a two innocent kill, for it'd be over after the next Night if a kill isn't protected or missed. The advantage if three of us are killed is that it should at least be easier for you guys to seek out the wolves.

Isabellkya

In her only one real contribution she tries to turn the focus on the vocal ones, possibly in order to escape lynching herself. It's quite bad, but other than that, I think she sounds more inexperienced than evil.
Then, later, she noticed that Nogrod and Rikae didn't mention each other much. The reasoning of her vote is not suspicious, I think. The placement might be.

Then again, one of the wolves is probably a quiet one...

Mithalwen

All she does is defend Nogrod. Sure, a wolf might do that, I've done it before, too, but it basically is her only point, which she iterates again and again. The way she fears Nogrod to be a gifted makes me think of, like you said already, Nienor, pretty strongly even.

Since Gil would pretty much be a shot into the dark, I would hunt Isabellkya. Or, if you're really sure about Mith and unsure about everybody else, you could hunt her and minimise our losses.

I don't think the no-kill last Night was strategic; it was most likely a miscommunication, and I doubt that happen between two active members. The wolves are most likely one quiet and one active, but I can't be sure.

Also, if I die and take down an innocent, you probably should consider revealing toMorrow...because then they won't suspect you or Rikae.

Another thing: I think there's a chance either Lhuna or tgwbs is our thief, so keep an eye out on them.

[Brinniel]

Maybe these wolves aren't as clumsy as we thought. And I was so confident this time! And indeed, if Gil doesn't turn out to be a wolf, then these wolves are cunning to make us think the quiets are the ones. Now I'm beginning to think that's more possible than anything...

I'm not sure what to do...if Nienor and me die toNight and I take down an innocent, the game's over and we lose. But with the lack of kills thus far, I don't know. Cripes, I wish I knew who was protected.

Gah! I'm so frustrated right now! If Izzy was our wolf, we would've had it in the bag. But now I know nothing.

This one's long, but I thought I should leave most of it in since you didn't get to hear from me in the Day:

I've been thinking things over very carefully. I've come to realise now with only seven of us alive, two are wolves, and four are gifteds...which means there's only one ordinary left. If there finally is a wolf-kill toNight (and I think there will be), the chances that a Gifted will be hit is extremely likely, and I won't be surprised if it's Nienor and I that go down...hopefully Androg will protect one of us. If it has to be a gifted, I would prefer to see Androg go. That way, we can finally know his identity, and you could get your ability back. Then again, we'll never know who he protected. But ideally, it'd be great if the ordinary was attacked...then all the Gifteds could reveal at once and we could easily pick out our wolves....but that's not likely to happen.

Anyways, I did something similar to what you did on the thread and paired all our unknowns up:

tgwbs and Lhuna:

Day 1-

-Lhuna finds tgwbs’s vote hasty and safe

Day 2-

-Lhuna suggests Nogrod and tgwbs could be Beleg and Turin or two wolves, but is not sure
-tgwbs thinks there is a possible wolf in the Rikae-Lhuna-Mithalwen-Brinn group
-tgwbs agrees with Rikae on her suspicious thoughts of Lhuna; he does not trust her for debating the gifteds
-Lhuna lowers her suspicion of tgwbs and finds his observations sensible

Day 3-

-Lhuna is uncomfortable with the debate between tgwbs and Nogrod; she is certain one of them is a wolf
-tgwbs doesn’t think a wolf-Lhuna would vote for Nogrod today

Day 4-

-Lhuna finds tgwbs to be innocent from his vote yesterday; she says he seemed too sincere and noisy to be guilty
-tgwbs is unsure about Lhuna


Mithalwen and tgwbs:

Day 1- no mention of each other

Day 2-

-tgwbs thinks a wolf in the Rikae-Lhuna-Mith-Brinn group
-tgwbs doesn’t know about Mith because she’s said too little
-Mith says that tgwbs sets off her alarms

Day 3-

-tgwbs doesn’t think a wolf-Mith would defend Nogrod so strongly; thinks she’s innocent

Day 4-

-tgwbs suspects Mith for defending Nogrod but not voting early to help save him, for jumping on Brinn for suggesting she’s suspicious if Nogrod’s innocent, for keeping a presence but saying little, and for her attempting to divert suspicion to Gil. He votes for Mith.
-Mith is uneasy about tgwbs


Gil-Galad and tgwbs:

Day 1-

-Gil finds tgwbs’s vote for xyzzy, who had said nothing, strange

Day 2-

-tgwbs says he can’t decide on Gil due to his silence

Day 3-

-tgwbs thinks Gil is probably a wolf with Nogrod

Day 4-

-tgwbs finds Gil’s behaviour bizarre; thinks he might be feeling under pressure as a possible wolf
-tgwbs says Gil is his second lynch choice


Lhuna and Mithalwen:

Day 1- no mention of each other

Day 2- no mention of each other

Day 3-

-Lhuna keeps Mith in consideration for her vote, but she want to hear more from her

Day 4-

-Lhuna is worried about Mith’s confidence of Nogrod’s innocence, little contribution, and vote for Brinn
-Lhuna concludes that Mith is suspicious, but she still wants to hear more first


Lhuna and Gil-Galad:

Day 1-
-Lhuna scolds Gil for talking without saying much
-Lhuna doesn’t like Gil’s behaviour in a serious situation, but doesn’t want to judge him on this alone and says we should keep an eye on him

Day 2-

-Lhuna notes Gil’s vote and “rest in peace” comment and thinks it a possible slip. She’s unsettled about it, but decides she’ll wait before judging him.

Day 3- no mention of each other

Day 4-

-Lhuna doubts Gil’s guilt because he’s been absent, but she will still keep him in consideration.


Mithalwen and Gil-Galad:

Day 1- no mention of each other

Day 2- no mention of each other

Day 3- no mention of each other

Day 4-

-Mith wonders if Gil is using his words to make up for lost time and finds him possibly suspicious

----

Okay, if we still looked at meta and judged our wolves by that, I'd say Gil and Mith are our most likely pair because it's likely they'd miss a kill since neither one was around on Night 3. And if this no-kill was an accidental miss, it would probably make tgwbs innocent because he posted on the thread shortly (a half an hour, I think) after the deadline. But if this miss was strategic (and it could be...I mean, it's working), then that's a whole different story...

I was so sure either Izzy or Gil would be a wolf, but now I'm doubtful. I mean, though Gil's behaviour is strange, he is always like that and most often when he's lynched, he turns out innocent. Last time Gil was a wolf, he was extremely active and less suspicious. Now if he's a wolf, I think Legate would've assigned him with a reliable player, and seeing who's left, we now know that's true.

Mith is playing strangely with short posts and not saying much about anyone. Since Day 3, I assumed she was not an ordinary.

Lhuna is looking pretty suspicious to me. She seems so careful with her words. Her thoughts of others go up and down but never dramatically enough to draw attention...she's almost too sensible. Her vote yesterDay was a bit sudden and it felt like she was just jumping on the bandwagon more than anything.

And tgwbs...I just can't put a handle on him. It can so easily go either way.

Likely wolf-pairs:

Lhuna and tgwbs - Their suspicion of each other goes up and down, yet it's never enough to draw attention.

Mith and tgwbs- YesterDay's attack on Mith could come from a cunning fellow tgwbs wolf. After all, she wasn't under heavy suspicion and if she was lynched, it'd be a great cover for him.

Gil and tgwbs- Not sure, but I think it's a possibility.

Gil and Mith- Because of meta-reasons and they've managed to get away saying practically nothing about each other.

----

Who is the remaining ordinary? My guess it's either Rikae or Gil. I don't get a gifted feel from Rikae, but if Gil is innocent, I don't think he's gifted.

If Lhuna isn't a wolf, then she's probably Androg (due to Day 3's narration).

If Mith isn't a wolf, then she's probably Nienor. I can't imagine Nienor being anything but a seer, and from what little we've heard from Mith, it has been fairly accurate (and notice...she dropped any suspicion she had of me from Day 3).

If tgwbs isn't a wolf, well, he could be anything...

I like the idea of Lhuna and tgwbs as a pair. Both are very smart and play strategically. After Izzy's death, I find it quite possible the wolves are purposely playing their kills a bit clumsy just to fool us.

I'm pretty sure at least one of us gifteds will be down come this time toMorrow. Even if it's strategic, no wolf would let another no-kill go when they're so close to winning. I don't know who will be still alive, but someone will have to reveal I think if we have any chance of winning.


I still think that Rikae may be Androg. I could imagine her going for me in Night 2, when there is no other clue to follow. Also, she made that one post that I think might be a slip. I don't think she is Nienor.

Mith is very concerned not to kill a gifted. If she's Nienor, she's very obvious. Or is she a wolf pretending to be Nienor in order not to be lynched?

I think the Guy is either wolf or ordo.

Lhuna could be anything.

I doubt that Gil is gifted. If he's a wolf, he must be combined with a reliable partner, i.e. Guy or Lhuna.

tgwbs and Lhuna. Heaven knows how they could miss the kill, but only judging from their behaviour, it's very possible.

tgwbs and Mith. I think tgwbs went after her yesterday too strongly and with too bad reason. It seems he really wanted us to lynch her.

The other pairings... I really don't know. They're all possible (though Mith and Gil is unlikely).

There are a few things I noticed about Lhuna yesterday:

Has this even happened in the villages of old?" she asked no one in particular. "I am quite confident the wolves are making history on this hill. Never before has any creature of Morgoth failed so greatly in his task! In this I am more fully convinced that inexperienced wolves are among us.
More fully? Anyway, I didn't think this held when Nogrod brought it up and I still don't think it holds. Even if the wolves are inexpierienced, it would require a lot of luck to reject each of their kills. Especially if they're inexperienced, they might make simpler kills than the rangers foresee. There'd be the danger of the rangers overthinking the wolves plan.

It's interesting that she is also suspicious of Mith, as tgwbs. Is there a wolvish plan behind it?

I also need to start looking towards other possible wolves who might be hiding in innocent-ish words...Mac stands out for example.
These were her last words. Where did they come from? She first follows my vote and then makes such a statement?

If that lost kill hadn't been, I would suspect tgwbs and Lhuna most, now.

The upcoming kill (if there finally is one) will be interesting, and possibly very scary for us. The many scenarios (including whether Rikae is Nienor or Androg or not) make my head hurt. If we both and Rikae survive, I think we should reveal. It will be interesting to see who claims to be (fake-)Androg and (fake-)Nienor. If one of us is lost, then we will have to see.

I hope you make a good decision with your hunt. Tonight, it might be crucial.


Well, I have a 50% chance of hitting a wolf in my hunt...still I'd prefer better odds, say 75. But another thing is I could hit Nienor and that wouldn't have much effect since she would die anyway. If I protect an innocent other than Nienor and me or Nienor are attacked, the only way this game will not end is if one of the three are protected (Androg knows one innocent, so the odds are 3 out of 5, I think). If I got that wrong, it's because I'm terrible at math.

I feel like Lhuna and tgwbs just might be our wolf pair, but I can't be sure.

I wish I knew who Nienor was. If Nienor is a Seer, I'd think it would be Mith, but you're right...it's a bit too obvious. But I don't think her ordinary....and Androg? Maybe...but I'm doubtful. If she's a wolf, her most likely pairing is with Lhuna.

The problem with a Seer is that if it's not Mith, then this person has been just as misled as the rest of us. If Mith is a wolf, tgwbs is our most likely Seer as he suspected her so. But then, why didn't he dream of Nogrod then? I'm not sure...

I doubt Rikae is a Seer of any sort...she's been misled many times. The possibility that she is Androg is getting more and more likely though. And while she has been wrong, perhaps as she's our only other known innocent, we ought take heed in some of Rikae's suspicions. Lhuna, for example...she's suspected her since Day 2.

Lhuna, Lhuna...she's looking most suspicious to me. I mean, look at her votes; all innocents, but each one is easily explained. Early on, I thought her innocent, and usually it is the people I trust most that are guilty...

I think I will hunt Lhuna. Or else, I could guarantee another Day by not hunting at all, but really, I think I'd rather take a risk...

Androg knows me and possibly one more (unless he protected himself last night).
You have a 50% chance to kill an innocent and end the game if Rikae is Nienor.
In the more likely case, you only have a 25% chance to kill Andróg or the one ordo left.

I feel like Lhuna and tgwbs just might be our wolf pair, but I can't be sure.
Same here.

The problem with a Seer is that if it's not Mith, then this person has been just as misled as the rest of us. If Mith is a wolf, tgwbs is our most likely Seer as he suspected her so. But then, why didn't he dream of Nogrod then? I'm not sure...
Hmmm. The Guy as a seer? Not impossible, even though I don't count with a seer anymore. But it's a risk that would speak against hunting him.

Almost everyone seems to find me innocent, and I worry that makes me an easy target. At the same time, I hope that makes me an easy choice for protection (if I wasn't protected last Night). I have no clue who will be attacked, but I won't be surprised if I die, so I'll prepare myself for it. I will welcome death if I do manage to take down a wolf with me..

Lhuna, it is. And it better be right because otherwise I'm completely stumped.


Phew, that was a lot of quotes! But I hope you guys find this more helpful and interesting than boring...

[Brinniel]

"Nogrod's strange behaviour could mean wolvery, or it could just be his new experiment."?
Yes I said I'd like to play differently (meaning I would do all the "homework" I'm used to do when I have time but would have only posted highly considered one-liners) but that all went away with the RPG-style decision as I thought it was enough to adjust to one basic difference...
Well, that comment was basically me trying to find an explanation for Mac to why your behaviour was strange.

The main thing I found odd about you at that point was your inaccurate and repeated speculation of Turin. Mac is the one who said you were odd in general...and I cannot speak for him.

A few extra comments:

Legate- The last thing I expected was to be assigned as a gifted due to my inaccuracy of suspects and poor survival skills. I was quite honoured to be given the role of Turin, who happens to be my favourite character of all of Tolkien's works. Thanks for giving me this opportunity. I think I'm finally getting the hang of this. :)

A special thanks to Mac who once again was an excellent comrade to have. I don't think I could've been successful in my final hunt without his advice.

Anyways, I really want to hear from the wolves. What evil plotting (and celebrating) occurred during the Night? And was Night 3 really a missed kill or strategic?

[Rikae]

Did she protect someone at night and was dissatisfied with the ambiguous narration?

Indeed. :rolleyes:

Brinn, thanks for posting all that - it was an interesting read! I'm fairly proud of the fact I contributed to your decision to hunt Lhuna, in some small way. :D

But WHY, oh WHY, do you always get to be co-conspirators with my Macalaure?

;)

BTW, congratulations on breaking that curse!

[Nogrod]

One more thing... It is a pleasure to read these Nightly discussions between you two Brinn and Macalaure. But you seem to be much more alive during the Nights than on Days... And that's the curse. And with this bunch of outlaws even more than with some other villages. This sleeping-curse was just too heavy on this village.

I mean having a good game requires people to actually play - during the Days as well! Be bold, be open or cunningly open-looking, whatever. Now you two were really playing well as I can read it from these PMs (although you made some grave misjudgements as well... but we all do them) but to the other players you were just two "non-posters" or if not quite that, very silent and careful players of whom it's very hard to say this or that... so tossing a coin it is with you, like with the one-liner -posters as well.

I think the primary reason why you all were just happy to lynch me was that I had talked so much that everyone of you had a point or another to go for me to appease your conscience... like it was basically why you picked tgwbs in this last vote - and won. So sad for tgwbs as he really tried honourably!

It's always easier to vote for someone who has actually said something when you can build a theory or get a feeling from that person. And as the Days go by you tend to grow more uneasy of lynching those who have been quiet as you feel you risk making blind vote with nothing to substantiate it with when the going gets tough ie. the numbers start looking bad. I know this as I feel the same myself.

But that kind of works against the basic idea of this game which is that people should speak and then read what others say and make their deductions based on them. The other possibility would be that people just said "Hi" and then randomly made a vote. Which one of these is a werewolf-game?

The latter would be just pure guess-work. No one could enjoy it and no game would take place... just random suspicions and random voting leading to a random results.

This is not intended as making a judgement on any person who played in this game in particular. I enjoyed this game to be sure and that's enough for me.

Maybe we should try a game of one-liners to make the point visible enough?


The main thing I found odd about you at that point was your inaccurate and repeated speculation of Turin.Sorry but I didn't quite catch this... Wasn't I right when I said that it is believable that Turín and Nienor will go down together (like lovers in a more normal game but in an RPG you can't use that word - especially in connection with Turín and Nienor that would have been bad taste indeed) and thence we should be very careful not to lynch either of them? And while the narration said that Beleg had to wake Turín up it seemed that Turín was a "sleeper" and thence a "quiet player" and that we should pay heed to it if we wished to lynch the quiets (which basically is the strategy I strongly back). Remember I had no idea who Turín was - like no one else but Beleg had. You can'ät blame me for not guessing it right now can you? :)

So what other things I did say about Turín that made you so suspicious of me? :D

[the guy who be short]

Hello everyone. Thanks to you all; I may not have won, but this is the furthest I've got as a wolf, and I really enjoyed it. I was hoping my last posts on the last Day might make you go for Gil... It's annoying because, had that happened, I would have attacked Mac (knowing that Rikae had protected herself two nights before, I reasoned that she could definitely protect herself next night, but may not have been able to protect Mac) and so I would have won. Alack.

Special mention should go, I feel, to Nogrod. I was wondering if my posts were getting a little too heated or even bordering on the offensive; I apologise if that was so (but you know it's just a game, eh? :p). In any case, I think you could have been a very considerable force in getting the wolves lynched if you had lived any longer.

Doubtless you will all wish to know about the Nightly kills, or lack thereof. No, it wasn't preplanned or a cunning scheme... that was a really bizarre idea. It was just sheer bad luck which we tried to bend to our favour. Anyway, Nightly PMs coming up.

[the guy who be short]

Simple greetings and formalities, most of which have been editted out for general consumption:

(Lhuna)
Now, about playing style. I don't know my own, actually. :rolleyes: Good thing I haven't played with around half the players, so they don't know how I play. But since this is a kind of strict RPG-style game, there's no room for frivolity (so I can't howl during the Full Moon :(), and Nogrod, for one, can't suspect me for being too serious - which is how I expect myself to be in the game.

If it's not too evil, I'd like to take advantage of the RPG style of the game by writing as though in a serious RPG. I won't go overboard so as to make them suspect me of trying to shift their attention from the Werewolf game, but just enough to show my *ehem* sincere innocence.(Guy)
I fear, dear Lhuny, that I shall be killed. I always am. I shall try to stay alive as long as possible, but I think that in the end, it will fall upon you to cement victory.
(Lhuna)
Strangely enough, I fear I'll be killed early, too. But we shouldn't be so pessimistic. Somehow I find the small number of players encouraging.
So yes, we were hardly confident to start with... I think we did well considering.

[the guy who be short]

(Lhuna)
So for our kill, do we try to hunt for Turin or Beleg, or kill the one we think is the most dangerous player? The latter would naturally mean Nogrod, but I'm not sure it's a good idea to kill him this early. He expressed a bit of trust in me, so I guess it could serve as a bit of a cover, but it could also backfire. Also, he voted for you. I say we leave him alive for now.

Mac was under quite heavy suspicion yesterDay, and if we can push it further tomorrow we don't need to worry about him.

The person I most feel like killing toNight is Rikae. I don't know why, but there you go. I've never played with Isabellkya or xyzzy so I don't know if they are formidable foes.

Those are my thoughts for now. I'll try to read the thread more closely tonight to see if some other suitable victim will jump out at me.


(Guy)
I think it will be difficult to go after the gifteds today, so let us wait until one of them dies accidentally - by our hand, or by the village's. This means going after somebody else...

I'm not sure about Noggy. I'd quite like to see if I can get him killed - his stance on killing xyzzy is bizarre! He is also completely unpredictable so hopefully he'll be looking elsewhere tomorrow.

Brinn is a worry to me, but killing her is too dangerous.

Mac was not actually under too much suspicion. He also said he'd look at me tomorrow. I think maybe it would be better to keep him around though - I think I will eventually be lynched, and in that case, his vote today, plus his neutrality towards me, could be interpreted as wolvish. Basically, when I die, I'd like him to be lynched next day. :D

What I would actually quite like is to kill somebody random and unsuspecting. Rikae is a good choice, but I think Isabellkya would be even more random and confuse everybody. It might even lead them to think the wolves feel they are under no pressure, and so start looking at new people (i.e. not me!).

Either of these would make me happy, it's up to you.


(Lhuna)
Ah, my dear STAWB, how could you do this to me? My choices usually go amiss! But at least you narrowed down the list to two, and agreed with my choice. Rikae or Isabellkya, then?

I don't feel comfortable killing someone who is yet to speak. And there's the possibility that Izzy isn't gifted; otherwise it would have been hard for her to miss the Day's discussions. It's possible she had RL reasons, though.

But if you speak of random and unsuspecting kills, what better choice than Gil-galad? ;) Seriously, though, I'm going with Rikae, much though I would like her in the game longer. I'm unable to foresee any danger in that move right now, maybe there's none.

++RIKAESo there you go. Rikae was our first mistake. I'd have preferred Izzy as Brinn guessed. This was to be the source of much future night-time worrying for me.

[the guy who be short]

(Guy)
So yes, the Rikae thing went badly. On the plus side we've left no trail. On the minus side, the two captains now know that Rikae is an innocent. This knowledge may help us to find them. If we have a good suspicion, then killing one of them would be excellent. If not, I suppose we could go for Rikae again, although I'd prefer not to, as she thinks me innocent. It's a possiblity, of course, that she is one of the captains...

I get the feeling that at least one, possibly both, of Nogrod and Mac are gifted. Killing Nogrod would, I feel, make people lynch me - if we keep him alive long enough, people get suspicious! And Mac thinks us both innocent, good to keep around.

Therefore, while I have not yet checked for clues about who is suspicious, my two top choices at the moment are Rikae and Brinn. Reasons:

1) The captains know Rikae is innocent. Everybody trusts her. Minuses are that she is slightly suspicious of Nogrod (keeping her could help his eventual lynching) and that she doesnt suspect me. If we don't kill her, we really must kill a captain, because having two of the villagers know the innocence of 3 of the villagers is very bad for us.

2) Brinn. If I feel that she may be a captain, I'd really LOVE to lynch her. She really has no suspects except me. Now that xyzzy, who I campaigned to get lynched, has been proved to be innocent, we could kill her off and I could claim it's a set-up. I will have to check what everybody has said and see how gifted she feels...

But our main priority is to get a captain. Perhaps Mac (if analysis shows him to be captainy) after all?See Mac? We were onto you...(Lhuna)
I'm not really keen on going after Rikae toNight. Sure, she scares me a bit, because I think she suspects me even just a little, but we've better options.

Of all the Outlaws, Mac's the one standing out to me most as a possible Beleg.

Nogrod is playing too boldly, I think, to be gifted. But I won't put it past him to deceive the wolves in this way. If we kill him, then the Outlaws will think they really have desperate and amateur wolves among them, as Nogrod suggested. That could probably keep them off our trail. The same could be said of Mac, I suppose, to a bit lesser degree.

As for Brinn...are you sure you can manage to throw off suspicion if she is killed? But I'm not worried about her yet. She hasn't contributed much, and could be up for lynching.

Ah, but now that I think about Rikae, I think you have a point that it would be ill for us if we let her live with the Captains knowing her innocent! But wait...isn't that just the same thing as with the Seer? What matters is that the Captains don't beat us to revealing her innocence - or worse, our lycanthropy.

But I guess it's safe if one of us gets revealed, because I think we've been doing a good job hiding that we're working together.

So my choices are Nogrod and Mac. Mac then? I can't be here long, so if you don't catch me online, I'll leave the final decision to you. Then we're even.So you see, if we had killed that night, it would probably have been Mac, and then things would have gone much better... As it happened, I had difficulties getting onto the internet again due to my sister occupying the computer. This meant I didn't get Lhuna's PM until too late and so nothing happened. Alack.

[Brinniel]

One more thing... It is a pleasure to read these Nightly discussions between you two Brinn and Macalaure. But you seem to be much more alive during the Nights than on Days... And that's the curse. And with this bunch of outlaws even more than with some other villages. This sleeping-curse was just too heavy on this village.
Well, I thought I contributed a fair amount during the Days, but when I think about it, I guess it wasn't all that much. But there were many factors following that:

1. Many things I discussed with Mac (Rikae's innocence, possible Gifteds) I could not discuss publicly during the Day without revealing. And talking about Gifteds in the presence of wolves is just silly. It's a different environment talking to an ally because you have nothing to hide. Also, I didn't want to reveal to much during the Day that might make the wolves see my connection to Mac.

2. Me being a little more than worried about getting myself killed early on. I know I haven't survived well in the past, and with someone else's life relying on mine, I was even more nervous. I guess after Day 3, I was a bit bolder...I think Rikae mentioned that somewhere...

3. Roleplaying. Don't get me wrong- I really loved roleplaying this time. It gave the game a unique touch, plus it worked well with the small number. But because of it I didn't post as much. I often reveal my opinions through lists and such...and we could only do a limited amount here. At Night, however, I didn't have to worry about roleplaying.

I hope that explains everything. Sorry if I wasn't as useful during the first Days as I could've been. People who know me well know I am a quiet person and not exactly bold; so careful is just what I do. :rolleyes:

And while the narration said that Beleg had to wake Turín up it seemed that Turín was a "sleeper" and thence a "quiet player" and that we should pay heed to it if we wished to lynch the quiets (which basically is the strategy I strongly back). Remember I had no idea who Turín was - like no one else but Beleg had. You can'ät blame me for not guessing it right now can you?
I didn't suspect you just because of that misinterpretation. But the fact that you kept bringing it up and seemed to use it as a basis for some of your arguments is what I found odd. I recall once thinking that perhaps as a wolf you hinted that Turin could be a sleeper because the other wolf was actually one and perhaps you were trying to draw villagers away from them. Perhaps you never meant it as anything significant; just a mere suggestion of a possibility...but for some reason it stood out to me. Anyways, I apologise if this explaining isn't exactly clear; I'm half-asleep right now...

Interesting reads, tgwbs. So, you were sort of onto me by Night 3.. And I find it funny to see how such little things can cause a missed-kill. I'll be sure to remember that next time and not judge it on who's reliable and who's not.

Oh, and congrats to Lhuna and tgwbs for their excellent wolf playing. They may have not won, but they both fooled us at one point or another, and to survive until Night 5 without any losses on their side is quite an accomplishment. :)

Anyways, I'm looking forward to seeing more wolf PMs from Night 4 and 5, as well as hearing from Mithalwen and her nightly choices.

[Macalaure]

Wow, this was a really tough game! Congrats to the wolves! If the field of choice wouldn't have been so narrow, I doubt I would have considered you two as possibilities, you were playing so well.


A special thanks to Mac who once again was an excellent comrade to have. I don't think I could've been successful in my final hunt without his advice.Oh, you're too modest. You did a lot more work than I did and I think you surely would have chosen Lhuna as well. If you hadn't been convinced of the pair Lhuna and tgwbs, I might not have been so confident to go after tgwbs the last day.
Anyway, it was absolutely great to plot with you once more, this time on the other side.


So you see, if we had killed that night, it would probably have been Mac, and then things would have gone much better... On night 3, I protected Macalaure. I'm still wondering whether that succeeded, or whether the wolves missed the kill;Oh dear! This would have made three rejected kills in a row! This would truly have been historical!


Sorry for lynching you, Nogrod. As you can see from the PMs, the field to choose from was narrow, and I thought Lhuna innocent at the time. I had to decide between you and tgwbs (since I really didn't want to lynch another quiet one).Now where did these come from?

Well, your eagerness to lynch the quiet ones early on (I still think tgwbs had it right, even though he was evil), your assumptions on the wolves (which even boosted the former), your thinking that Turin is a sleeper (it looked to me like you were picking out only the one line from the narration that suited your purpose).
All these thoughts and ideas I disagreed on.

...and, well, if somebody keeps on saying things on which I disagree, then he couldn't possibly really be honest, or could he? :rolleyes: :p

Your defensiveness on these points made me get the idea that you might be trying to lead the village along wrong paths. However, if you look back at the reasoning of my vote for you, that was honestly only because your behaviour towards tgwbs seemed fishier to me than his behaviour towards you. I turned out to be wrong, sadly.


One more thing... It is a pleasure to read these Nightly discussions between you two Brinn and Macalaure. But you seem to be much more alive during the Nights than on Days... And that's the curse. And with this bunch of outlaws even more than with some other villages. This sleeping-curse was just too heavy on this village.

I mean having a good game requires people to actually play - during the Days as well! Be bold, be open or cunningly open-looking, whatever. Now you two were really playing well as I can read it from these PMs (although you made some grave misjudgements as well... but we all do them) but to the other players you were just two "non-posters" or if not quite that, very silent and careful players of whom it's very hard to say this or that... so tossing a coin it is with you, like with the one-liner -posters as well.

I think the primary reason why you all were just happy to lynch me was that I had talked so much that everyone of you had a point or another to go for me to appease your conscience... like it was basically why you picked tgwbs in this last vote - and won. So sad for tgwbs as he really tried honourably!


I sense perilious grounds here. I think, in this game, the average player might have had an average of maybe around 4 or 5 solid contributions per day, and I don't think that's so much less than in other games. I would say that the village seemed so quiet because there were only one or two really talkative players, who post more than the average does, and several who were struggling to participate much at all. The less people talk, the less the other people find to talk about (esp. considering the way the lynches and kills went), which of course is a vicious circle.

Concerning myself, it was a problem that, during the whole game, I was never really suspicious of anybody (except Izzy and tgwbs that one time... I was so sure suddenly) and even in RL I'm the kind of person who doesn't like to talk much about something if he has not really made up his mind before. I also noticed that I tend to be less open when I'm gifted. Then there was the problem that there was very little to go at, especially on Day Three, with two lynched who left little trails and no kill at all. To me, the first three days felt like an endless Day One. Add to this that I've lost my gifted ability after only one night and you might understand my frustration. In fact, I was close to putting on my boots of +3 to Hating this Campaign (http://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/?p=1165) at that time. ;)

[Nogrod]

You're quite right Mac and I'll promise I won't pursue this topic further. I just need to air those points a few times in a year... :p

And I quess there is some truth also in the fact that there were only eleven players to begin with.

As I said I enjoyed this immensly once again.

Thanks for the Nightly PMs Brinn and tgwbs! It's nice to start to understand how everything went in the end like it went.

PS. I can imagine your frustration Mac...

[the guy who be short]

During Night 4, Lhuna couldn't get to a computer, so everything you read is by me. I went a bit nuts and started analysing everything possible...

Sorry bout yesterday night - what a disaster, eh?! I couldn't get back online after the first pm I sent and hoped you'd have sent something to Leggy.

Thankfully, it's all worked quite in our favour. I think many people now expect amateur or absent wolves. I was also astounded by the support for lynching Noggy - each additional vote made me cackle insanely. Unfortunately, he was not a gifted as I had hoped, and so we have no lead to catch the next gifted... Well, not entirely true, we do have one...

We need to prioritize who to kill tonight, especially considering that this is the first night where we'll (hopefully) get a kill.

1) I think that it is now very important to kill a gifted. At worst, there are now two outlaws who know that three of the group are innocent, due to Rikae's saving on Night 2. However, it could be that Rikae is one of the gifted (it would make sense to protect themselves Day 1, I think) in which case it's not too bad.

2) I think our secondary goal should be to protect ourselves. I don't think I'm under much suspicion yet, miraculously, and thankfully Noggy absolved me of guilt! So we should look to protect you.

3) We need to foster confusion tomorrow. This shouldn't be too hard though; I think the entire village is quite lost at the moment.


Bearing all this in mind, we should NOT lynch Mith, as she is clearly not a gifted...Yeah, right. :rolleyes: Although by gifted, I meant Beleg or Turin at the time....If we're keeping her, I think we should also keep Brinn, if there is no strong evidence for her being gifted, because I think these two may go after one another tomorrow. We should also keep around Gil and Izzy as they are potential lynchees, due to the general suspicion of the quieter folk.

This leaves Rikae and Mac, right? We both think Mac seems gifted and he's generally under no suspicion (although Noggy did say to look at him tomorrow, so perhaps not). Rikae would be the safest choice, as her death will definitely cause damage to the gifteds; even if she is not one of them, they will lose a known innocent.

I'm in favour of killing Rikae or Mac, or possible Brinn if there is evidence of giftedness. The others I think should be left for the reasons above.

Now, we do have ONE clue in catching gifteds. Since Day 2, at least one person other than herself has known Rikae to be innocent. I'm going to go back and look at everybody's attitudes to Rikae and see what this brings up. If I have time, 'l'll create a table of what everybody thinks of everybody.

I fear you may come under suspicion tomorrow, my dear.

That is all for now. I shall contact you once the table is made.

I have made the table of everything relating to Rikae since Day 2 and will email it to you...If I can find a way of getting this on the internet, I shall. :) ...The more I think about it, the more I think Rikae is Turin and Mac is Beleg.

Anybody who suspected Rikae after day 2 clearly is not a gifted; that's Izzy. I also don't think Mith is gifted because she hasn't mentioned Rikae at all; you'd expect a gifted to comment on somebody they knew to be innocent. These two are definitely out.

Gil has not mentioned Rikae, but he's been away. In any case, would Legate make him gifted knowing he'd be away? I doubt it.

This leaves Brinn and Mac. Mac has consistently found Rikae innocent, and she him. Brinn has also consistently found Rikae innocent, and Rikae found her innocent too, though mentioning her less.

It is, of course, possible, that Mac and Brinn are gifted together... I shall look into their relationship next.

Rikae has been most vocal in suspecting you, but also Izzy. This would promote the secondary aim of protecting you tomorrow. Although it may point to you, it could also be argued that it points to Izzy as well or that it is a set up. If you're not comfortable with removing Rikae, it will have to be Mac I think, which is a shame because I'm quite sure he finds you innocent at the moment.I have to leave in a while. If I get no reply within an hour, to prevent the disaster of yesternight, I shall send leggy a provisional kill of Rikae, telling him that it could be overruled by any subsequent PM sent by you this night.

I have updated the table to include everybody except me, you and izzy.So that night Rikae was my choice. She was really bad luck for us!

As you can see, I did mention the possibility of Brinn-Mac. I'm glad to see I wasn't too far off.

[the guy who be short]

(Lhuna)
Mac said he thinks it unlikely you would go after him toNight, but in any case his death would make everyone look towards you. Do you think he deserves to be killed, nonetheless? I think he might be one of the Captains. But my primary concern here is you, because it seems to me that I will go before you do.

Brinn could be the other Captain, I suppose. I don't recall her saying much of Mac, and vice versa. It could be them. Although I would certainly miss her vote of confidence in my innocence...Ha... yes, vote of confidence. However, Lhuna was much more accurate than me, as you can see, in discovering gifteds. (Still Lhuna)
...Could Mith really have had foreknowledge of Nogrod's innocence, though? If you do not think she will remain suspicious for long, she is another victim option.

So there are my rather vast choices: Rikae, Mac, Brinn, and Mith. Rikae or Mac I would most like to get rid of.

There is one thing I have to let you know, however: If you could so contrive to have me lynched without you being found suspicious once I'm proven guilty, would you do it? There is a reason I missed you last Night, and that we were unable to send a kill the other Night. I didn't expect the busy-ness to kick in this early into the term, and already I am starting to feel exhausted though I'm just on my fourth week.

If you didn't notice, my lack of concentration on the game is leading me to make clumsy mistakes during the Day. It's a wonder I'm even still alive. But I'm afraid I could hardly go on any longer. If I am to go, I would rather do so in a manner that would make our victory more certain.I think Lhuna played absolutely marvellously considering how busy her real life was. (Guy)
I'm not sure how possible it will be to go after you tomorrow. I've kept you nicely ambivalent until now. I suppose I could do an analysis tomorrow and try to come up with something suspicious, after doing Mac. I'll try. I can certainly lessen my suspicion of Mith... I do fear that I would not win without you though...

As for who to kill, this Rikae thing really is a problem. If Rikae is not a gifted, 3 people know she is innocent: Turin, Beleg and Androg. If she is gifted, she must be Turin...I'm trying to remember my reasoning. I think I thought that Beleg could not protect himself and that, as Rikae was protected Night 2, she had to be Turin. (Stiill Guy)
...in which case both Beleg and Androg know she is innocent, and she knows Beleg is innocent...

Whichever of these is true, I think it's frightening. Some of the louder people seem to have formed a block - the Mith-Mac-Rikae block is very chummy, with Brinn also in on it I think.

I'm all for killing Rikae AGAIN. Leggy will think we have some kind of obsession,Who says we don't? ;) (Still Guy)
but it makes sense. If she isn't gifted, then it will still mean Beleg-Turin and Androg will lose a known innocent. And if she is, all the better.

I'll be trying to find the gifteds now. I feel that Mac is Beleg (no point killing him) and Rikae Turin. Not sure about Androg; - but Mith is a strong possiblity! If she knew Mac was Beleg, and felt Mac and Nogrod were innocent like I thought... yes, this makes PERFECT sense to me. She thought Nogrod was Turin because she knew Mac was Beleg and thought them gifted together.Even the most logical of conclusions can be utterly stupid. (Still Guy)
The problem with killing Rikae: Whom would she take with her? I think Mac-Rikae recognise that Mith is Androg... I think she would kill you.

Grr, this is difficult. Killing Rikae-Turin would result in your death. Killing Androg-Mith would make me lose a suspect tomorrow. Killing Beleg-Mac would be safest, but would not remove a gifted.

I prefer Mith. Getting rid of my top suspect will actually mean I can turn on you tomorrow without looking too bad, which is good. :) Mac has no powers and Rikae would kill you in the Night.

Agree?

(Lhuna)
I am thoroughly amazed at how you manage to make sense out of the roles. I am utterly clueless about them.As was I, it seems! (Still Lhuna)
I'm okay with killing Mith, because it could result in my death. ;) Surely it wouldn't be too impossible that you just suddenly present a case against me tomorrow. I'll try to fight back as innocent-seemingly as I can so it doesn't appear too easy, and provide my own suspect/s, but in the end I'm sure you will manage to convince them.

You can secure a victory even without me, STAWB. I believe in you.

(Guy)
Hehe, well if it wasn't for Nogrod then I'd be lost about the roles too.Thanks for that. I didn't even consider the existence of Androg until you mentioned it. (Still Guy)
So we're agreed on mith, I'll PM Volo now. Tomorrow I shall present as strong a case as possible against you, with whatever evidence I can.Of course, it never materialised. It's quite disappointing. If Rikae had just gone with her instincts and voted Gil before Mac voted, the wolves would have won!

[the guy who be short]

Oh, and sorry about the bolding. Dunno how to fix it. :)

[Rikae]

Of course, it never materialised. It's quite disappointing. If Rikae had just gone with her instincts and voted Gil before Mac voted, the wolves would have won!

Well, I didn't really have that strong a preference! I just wanted to give Mac an argument...;)

Anyway, I've learned that when Mac is "so sure suddenly" about something, that's as good as scientific proof. (So much for women's intuition...:rolleyes:).

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

There is little to be said that was not said, or that surely you won't think of by yourselves, but to let me voice my opinion, this one was a marvellous game and even though (or because of?) being a Mod, I enjoyed it as if I were a part of it.

I think against all odds, when it looked at the beginning really grave with our numbers, I daresay the game did not lose anything from its interest and, maybe, it was even better and indeed more "family-warm" environment with there being so few of you (or should I say: us?).
The game was, of course, a little changed against what I was planning it to do at first due to the lesser numbers (e.g. both Túrin&Beleg should have had one more addittional special ability... which I will keep to myself just in case I mod again), but I think even game-wise it turned out to be good and balanced. We had Túrin, Nienor (these two being the "weapon of mass destruction" whatever the case), Beleg, Andróg and Saeros as special roles; while originally Mim should also have had his part (larger) and maybe an Outlaw or two more (like an innocent Algund who would have known the identity of the Children, but they won't know his - sort of a seerish bonus to combinate things).

I am sure this one is running to a Barrow-Wight's Book of Records, because of the three in-a-row no-kill Nights, maybe even it should be considered that the stopped kills were both aimed against Rikae (I also don't think something like that normally happens...). This was one of the most critical things in the whole game, but as we saw, the no-kill maybe even helped the Wolves a little bit (well, maybe quite a lot). The other standpoints were, I believe, Brinn's choice of Lhuna (otherwise you were dead, as you probably know - I was almost sure she will pick Gil, that will be a total disaster) and of course, the Rikae-Mac learning each other innocent (though they both didn't know that the other knows as well).

The funniest moment still for me was Night 2. Rikae sent me quite early the information that she's, if I can quote, „going to rob that handsome young Macalaure fellow“. At that moment I said to myself: „Hmm, seems Andróg got to work quite early.“ But then I got a PM from Lhuna that the wolves chose Rikae as their target. „Hm,“ I thought, „so she's probably not going to enjoy the bow. At least the Ranger will have his bow back.“ I opened the later PM from Macalaure unmindfully. Then I burst in laughter when I realized what it reads and what it means. I have to say, as a first-time mod I consider this unbelievable and inequitable, for this is a thing that happens rarely and not every Mod is lucky enough to experience something like this; and I'm sure every Mod enjoys it greatly when it happens. At that moment, I pitied so much that you players don't know it!

And concerning your performance as players...

Shasta, it was indeed a shame you did not stay longer (for those who do not know, his aim was to kill Túrin - respectively: get him lynched or killed, but so that no blame falls on himself, of course - otherwise he was an innocent). Shasta, I know of your roleplaying skills and I hope the role did not hinder you much in that. Well, but someone has to die the first day.

Xyzzy, well, what to say? You are a Werewolfer, and you are yourself though maybe this time got more unlucky than normally. I think the "normal" games fit you better, but still - counting your number of posts in this game (three per day, though it was the only one) was good sign for me. Hope you liked the game too.

Nogrod, poor lad, that was really nasty what they did to you, when you were the one who technically was right in - well - many things. And surely you were the one with most "waking" effect on the sleepy hill, and I see you also manage to roleplay very, how should I say it, "realistic"! Had it not been for this game, I might not have learned. But thanks also for your help with co-modding, I am sure both me&Volo appreciated it.

Isabellkya, you surprised me with your roleplaying. It was as I said in the beginning, there is more in some of you than we can see when roleplaying is not set as compulsory. Maybe we should do it more often... Concerning the game itself, you were not as lucky this time with picking suspects and giving them to the village, but in the end, fourth day is fourth day.

Mith, thanks once again that you joined us in the end - and I hope you enjoyed it and don't pity joining in. You did well to stay as long, and did not end as wolf's meal until day 4. Say, did you have a clue who Túrin might be - or whom you thought to be Túrin (Nogrod at one moment, I think)?

Brinniel! Although you died in the end, I see you broke your record and that calls for celebrating it. And to consider that you died not by anyone else's choice, but due to a link of fate, well, being a "normal" character you might have finished till the end. Your play was a very good one and seemingly you kept it well balanced so that no one lynched you (skipping the fact that Nienor wanted at one point), but also you didn't call as much attention to yourself to get you wolf-targeted.

Lhuna, I never saw you playing before, but was not disappointed - you played just brilliantly! Who has seriously suspected you? For most of the time, practically no one - or at least not to bring it to deeds. And as I can see, in revealing other's roles you did also very well.

tgwbs, Lhuna's brother in arms. You made a nice wolf-pair, I believe, and you once again proved to be as slippery as possible, I'm sure had it not been for Rikae's and Mac's double-knowledge of each other, you could have convinced the village that you are Andróg or even Beleg. And even then, in the last moment, Gil could have gone instead of you. Even overall, the wolves' victory was this close. And
I'm all for killing Rikae AGAIN. Leggy will think we have some kind of obsession,
Well, right when you sent it the second time, I thought so...

Rikae, well, what to say? Brilliant game - and though your choice and getting the bow right the first night was... well... maybe I sort of hoped that "under candle least light"... but in all maybe I was not even thinking of this. It just happened. Nevertheless, even though you had the bow practically from the start, there was still quite a lot of danger for you, as we can see, more than enough. But you managed it!

Gil-Galad, I have to congratulate you to the victory (the whole time I was afraid they'll make you a scrapegoat, as always) and, also have to say that the time you had, you devoted to the game indeed with good contributions. Hopefully, and not just for the game's sake, we'll see you even more active in other games.

Mac, I am really sorry you couldn't use your Ranger ability more times. Perhaps some other time - I promise if I mod again, I will give you something that can't be stolen (hmm... like a Cursed Villager, for example). But nevertheless, you played well and you even did not get close to being suspected nor killed (again, at least not to bring it to deeds). So, cheers! Hope you enjoyed it and see you again somewhere...

And last but not least, not a player, but my co-mod Volo. What else can I say than "Well done, faithful servant..." :) You managed to take care of the game greatly, even if it was a little bit time-pressed, and without you everything will be surely waay more complicated. Thanks again!

And thanks again all for playing, it was great game to mod and great story to look at!:D

Now continue the aftertalk and don't mind my babbling ;)

[Brinniel]

I'm all for killing Rikae AGAIN. Leggy will think we have some kind of obsession
You know, I thought Legate would think the same thing of me on you after I hunted you like, five times in a row! I'm still amazed on how accurate I was the first two Days with you. If only I had kept up that suspicion... :rolleyes:

Btw, your PMs don't seem to have any mention of Nienor. Did you guys forget about her?

Legate, I'm really curious....how did you pick the roles? Were they completely random, or did you pick them for a specific reason? I've just gotta know...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

But that kind of works against the basic idea of this game which is that people should speak and then read what others say and make their deductions based on them. The other possibility would be that people just said "Hi" and then randomly made a vote. Which one of these is a werewolf-game?

Of course the point is that people should speak. . . but you have been blinded by your desire for analysing and intensive posting.

You don't need to post 10-20 times a day to be contributing to the game or two have fun (which is the true basic idea of the werewolf-game). You seem to focus way to much on this in every game you play. . . and I understand you in some of the cases, but a lot of the time I think you are overreacting.

Also when it comes to the analyzing bit. . . There is only so much to analyze, but of late there has been tendencies of half the village making 5 major post with loads of analyzing in each, and that is over analyzing. Thre simply is not that much wolwery in a game. The main point here is however that for all this analyzing people are no more often right than those that says "this sentence looks like wolvery ther for I vote for xxxxx"

I think the games are mor fun when you different ways of playing colide, it is great having you and SPM in a village, but if the whole village becomes your clones then the fun disapears.

[Nogrod]

it is great having you and SPM in a village, but if the whole village becomes your clones then the fun disapears.To me the fun starts there... So watch out, we both are going to be in Fea's next game... so think a second time before enlisting as we might spoil your fun... :p

But yes, you're right in many things. I've been in villages where three or four people make a "deep-analysis" of the posts of one and the same person. That clearly is an over-exaggeration. Also skimming through two pages of posting when you are in the middle of RL "disturbances" makes one pretty desperate. I know I sometimes flood the threads with my thoughts which at worst are repeating earlier points. I know. And that's a shame.

The main point here is however that for all this analyzing people are no more often right than those that says "this sentence looks like wolvery ther for I vote for xxxxx" I'd bet the "analysers" have a slight edge in this but that's a slight one to be sure. But I think the point is not whether one is right or not but what s/he reveals of her/his target, but also - and even more importantly - about her/himself with the analysis and thence contributes to the game for also the others. The fun of these games to me is that I give something for you others to chew and you give me something to read from you. Then there is a balance. But if it's only some people who contribute and others stay low that's kind of not fair-play any more.

If only two people talk it's easy for the others to just concentrate on what they contribute - but that also means that all the others are safe from any suspicion whatsoever and those talkers will get killed sooner or later just because they tried to contribute. That's the thing I'm complaining a bit. A bit that is as I'm used to it already - and you can deduct that it isn't a big issue with me as I'm always ready for the next game... :D

So sportsmanship is the thing I am calling for. Whether you are an ordinary or a gifted or a wolf (or whatever) you should put yourself into the game giving also others a chance to read you and not only read others with really careful posting.

I mean really, we should make a trial - just for the fun of it - one day. Let's make a game were everyone is restricted to max. two posts / Day and no one is allowed to analyse or make any posts containing any principles or actual reasoning, not to say building up cases or making personal commitments. Just oneliners with stuff like "Hi guys, we have a problem here, let's solve it", or "I'll vote X because my randon generator gave her as a result - or his name begins with an "S"". I'd be very interested to see what would happen in that game and how much people would actually enjoy it...

I really thought I would play a bit differently this time but the roleplaying aspect pushed me back to my normal way of playing. One day I will play differently... only I'm afraid I'm lynched on Day1 as soon as I try to do something completely different... :rolleyes:


PS. Rune: I was first a bit confused about your comment elsewhere but now I understand what you meant. Have no fear. I do not think your tone was too harsh or anything... To me this looks like discussing about the issues and that's what we should do anyway. So don't worry.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I'd bet the "analysers" have a slight edge in this but that's a slight one to be sure. But I think the point is not whether one is right or not but what s/he reveals of her/his target, but also - and even more importantly - about her/himself with the analysis and thence contributes to the game for also the others. The fun of these games to me is that I give something for you others to chew and you give me something to read from you. Then there is a balance. But if it's only some people who contribute and others stay low that's kind of not fair-play any more.

I think you are wrong. . . but I do not want to bet.

I don't see this as an issue of whether you should contribute or not, that is a given. What makes it fun for you is not necisarily what makes it fun for others , if you look at the earliest of ww-games way less was being said than now and they where just as popular. Speaking of fair play. . . people have different kinds of play and it is not fair at all when people who likes making many ultra long posts say to the rest "this is the way you have to play". . . . If you where only calling for the people that where truly quiet to speak up, then I would not raise a brow. The thing is that it seems that you question the styles of playing that is not very similar to your own.

I just don't think that one tactic has more merrit than the others. . . .The tactic of not saying anything is not included as it goes against the foundations of the game.

I for one is like an Ent when it comes to these games I don't want to say anything lengthy unless it is worth taking a long time saying. So normaly I stick to small and somewhat precise posts.

I mean really, we should make a trial - just for the fun of it - one day. Let's make a game were everyone is restricted to max. two posts / Day and no one is allowed to analyse or make any posts containing any principles or actual reasoning, not to say building up cases or making personal commitments. Just oneliners with stuff like "Hi guys, we have a problem here, let's solve it", or "I'll vote X because my randon generator gave her as a result - or his name begins with an "S"". I'd be very interested to see what would happen in that game and how much people would actually enjoy it... hehe I can use that rethorical trick as well. . . .

I think we should make a trial game where everybody was obliged to post 20 posts/day and no one is allowed to do any jesting. . .only hardcore analysism is accepted, all post must be at least of 1000 words. Lets see what would happen in that game and how much people would actually enjoy it. . . .

I know this is wasted on you as you would aboslutely love this sort of game ;)

Just remember that sportmanship goes both ways and that we have to accept that people play this game in their own and maybe different way.

and of course you are allowed to complaint about us speaking enough if that is the case. . . .but there is a difference between not speaking enough and not speaking as much as you.

[Gil-Galad]

i fine that i am striking as the crazy-man in WW games, i cuase enough ruckus and give out enough hunches that it keeps the village on their toes around me and it keeps the wolves letting me live so i can cuase enough distraction for them, but most of the time the wolves don't realize that i am slowly cornering them before it is too late to do anything about me... i am still playing WW till my goal of being a Seer so we shall see...

[Nogrod]

I think you are reading me too literally Rune. It's not the number of words I'm after. And as I've said before I know I'm a bit bad in this as I tend to be babbling in much too lengthy a manner in the games - and in post-game discussions...

I'd need a course in making clear and straight statements in English, I sure could use that. That's one of the reasons I decided to try a different game... which never materialised.

But with the risk of repeating myself, let's see if I could formulate my point understandably this time - and after this I will give up with it, honestly.

So let's bring these to the extremes to see the point.

Game1: no one speaks anything. Everyone just makes a vote once/Day (or forgets to do that). That will be a game of pure randomness and not funny to anyone. Just pure chance like throwing a dice or then just voting for those persons you don't like so much personally and thence it would only be a (cruel) game of social differentiation...

Game2: Everyone is required to make a full analysis of each other player in the game everyDay + a lengthy visionary post concerning all different possibilities the game-mechanics might work. That would hardly be amusing either... Only a dedicated player with lots of free time could read all through it in a game of twenty.

Neither seems like an enjoyable game.

But after we get more towards the middle ground and the reality the scene changes...

The problem in this mixed envirovment I think is in the inbalance. The contributors work from the basis of "I give to you new ideas about others and chances to pick suspicious things from my posting as well and you give me the same" while the quiets work on the basis of "I will give you nothing from myself but you should give Me everything". Remember that there is no game without the former people - but just Game1 whom no one wishes, I think... well, hope...

In practise this leads to the situation where one or two or three openly playing (one can look like playing openly while cheating!) will get lynched sooner than later as they are the only persons the others have an opinion. And why is that? Because they have made the game in the first place - remember Game1 once more. I mean, how could you make a case against totally silent player number 12 instead of totally quiet player number 11, or 7, or 4? How can you differentiate between them? Game1 once again... But of those loud players 1 and 2 and 3 it's much easier as they have contributed - given something to others.

This was not meant to be pointing to this game we played in particular. It was a small village indeed and many of my arguments are not valid with this "village" So basically it has nothing to do with this game we played. This was just an answer to Rune and as I promised, I will keep my mouth shut after this - even though I'm afraid I wasn't able to make my point clear enough.

Let's discuss this in Finnish the next time? I'll promise you a rhetorically outstanding argument in twenty words then! :D

[Nogrod]

no one is allowed to do any jesting. . .Here I think your parable breaks down... I'm all for jesting! I indeed do it all the time in these games - and that seems to be one of the major reasons why I'm getting lynched every now and then... Maybe I should learn English first before I start making jokes?

In the last game I opened the game with a Monty Python parody making it just nonsense and then only added a few starters to others to start picking up possible things (and to see how they would pick them or not).

What followed?

Everyone was sure that I was a baddie because of that post... and I needed to do a considerable amount of work to assure them otherwise (while they naturally were right as I was a wolf indeed...).

Jesting I do like even if many others seem not to like it, but a game with only arbitrary jokes would not be a fun game - like a joke in RL isn't worth much if it doesn't point to something real.

[Lhunardawen]

Ah well, it was really tough for the wolves to win. The odds really were against us. Wolf victories were very much attainable when there were three of them and the gifteds didn't know each other, but with only two of them, a very small village, and communicating gifteds? I wouldn't recommend an arrangement such as this again for future games.

STAWB, thank you for being an amazing co-wolf. Too bad we didn't get to push with our plan...but I ask you, Outlaws: could it have worked?

Nogrod, haha, sorry for all that. Just doing my job. ;) When you first mentioned the possibility of me and tgwbs being the wolves, that was really freaky. Or was that Rikae?

Speaking of whom, congratulations for picking up the guilty vibes. I don't EVER want to be a villain again, it's so distressing! I've only played with you once before, if I remember right, and now you're such an expert at it!

You astounded my with your last kill choice, Brinn - I had no idea at all you woud go after me like that, especially with how sure you were of my innocence. That was brilliant analysis on your part. You too, Mac. I should have known that we won't win if you're paired with someone, because the only time I won as a werecreature...

Gil, too bad they didn't consider at all that we could have been the wolves. :D

I'm sorry I didn't see more of you in the game, Mum, or at least not as much as I wanted to. Or maybe it was better that way, or I would have gone after you. :D

Izzy, Shasta, xyzzy, it was a pleasure to play with you.

Finally, thanks for the wonderful game, Legate! When Nilp told me that I and tgwbs were the wolves, I immediately wondered if you chose us deliberately. That was certainly an exciting way to play Werewolf again (after ten games had passed!), even if I really hate it when I have to be a wolf. You came up with really brilliant ideas in relating the story to the game, and I commend you for that. Would that we had started early, though, or I wouldn't have been so clumsy near the end...

(Excuses.)

[Lhunardawen]

Those were interesting reads, Brinn and Mac. Thanks. But you should both be suspected of lycanthropy for flipflopping on me. :p

I really should stop making sense when I'm evil. :rolleyes:

Actually, before she even posted, I thought that, as a mod, I would probably choose her (Lhuna) for this role (Nienor). For some reason, it seems like a very fitting role for her.
Well...Lhuna had gone quite suicidal in the end...

If she's evil, then this is an interesting statement. Why would a wolf so openly, and so coolly, give away their nightly train of thought? Sure, some would, but is Lhuna such a pokerface?
Am I? *poker face* But it was true, wasn't it? Nogrod's an excellent case in point. ;)

About Nienor, Brinn, I personally didn't think much of her because I wasn't too aware of what her role does. Plus there already were the Captains on whom to focus. As I said in the wolf PMs, I was completely LOST so far as the gifted roles were concerned.

And your killing me came just in time- the next Day, I would have been completely unable to go online on account of a Microbiology paper. So, yes, thanks for killing me.

[the guy who be short]

btw, your PMs don't seem to have any mention of Nienor. Did you guys forget about her?Yep. :rolleyes:

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I think you are reading me too literally Rune. It's not the number of words I'm after. And as I've said before I know I'm a bit bad in this as I tend to be babbling in much too lengthy a manner in the games - and in post-game discussions...

I'd need a course in making clear and straight statements in English, I sure could use that. That's one of the reasons I decided to try a different game... which never materialised.


I know that it is not the number as such you are after, I was just making a point by exagerating. . .just like you did. You can take everything to the extreme and thereby make it seem silly, but that is not really valid point as it can be done with everything.


But with the risk of repeating myself, let's see if I could formulate my point understandably this time - and after this I will give up with it, honestly.

So let's bring these to the extremes to see the point.

Game1: no one speaks anything. Everyone just makes a vote once/Day (or forgets to do that). That will be a game of pure randomness and not funny to anyone. Just pure chance like throwing a dice or then just voting for those persons you don't like so much personally and thence it would only be a (cruel) game of social differentiation...

Game2: Everyone is required to make a full analysis of each other player in the game everyDay + a lengthy visionary post concerning all different possibilities the game-mechanics might work. That would hardly be amusing either... Only a dedicated player with lots of free time could read all through it in a game of twenty.

Neither seems like an enjoyable game.

But after we get more towards the middle ground and the reality the scene changes...

The problem in this mixed envirovment I think is in the inbalance. The contributors work from the basis of "I give to you new ideas about others and chances to pick suspicious things from my posting as well and you give me the same" while the quiets work on the basis of "I will give you nothing from myself but you should give Me everything". Remember that there is no game without the former people - but just Game1 whom no one wishes, I think... well, hope...


First of all: I have never seen a quiet person saying that the rest should speak up. . .

You cannot just enter a game and set your own standard for how it should be played and then expect people to do so. To some degree you tend to do that. No where is it written that this game should be about thorough analyzis, it could just as well be about simple observation.

Whenever I seem to spot a wolf it is not because I look hard at every word he says and try to analyze it, it is often because I spot a single sentence that seem manipulative or something of the sort. I then say tbat this seems wolfish and that is my reason to vote as I do. That should be perfectly acceptable, I should not be forced to look at every word that the person has written and have an oppinion about it. Because I do not have an oppinion about them all, if I an forced to write about them anyways it will seem like I am grasping at straws and I will be lynched for being wolfish. . . .


In practise this leads to the situation where one or two or three openly playing (one can look like playing openly while cheating!) will get lynched sooner than later as they are the only persons the others have an opinion. And why is that? Because they have made the game in the first place - remember Game1 once more. I mean, how could you make a case against totally silent player number 12 instead of totally quiet player number 11, or 7, or 4? How can you differentiate between them? Game1 once again... But of those loud players 1 and 2 and 3 it's much easier as they have contributed - given something to others.

This was not meant to be pointing to this game we played in particular. It was a small village indeed and many of my arguments are not valid with this "village" So basically it has nothing to do with this game we played. This was just an answer to Rune and as I promised, I will keep my mouth shut after this - even though I'm afraid I wasn't able to make my point clear enough.

Let's discuss this in Finnish the next time? I'll promise you a rhetorically outstanding argument in twenty words then! :D

Once again I do not think you are being fair. . . .If people do not say anything at all (or just post once a day saying hardly anything), I my self would object to it. I think you are in your right to complaint about that, because people should not sign up if they are not going to play.
The thing is that you broaden your chritisism to players who contributes and makes vallid points, they just do it to a lesser extend than you and in another way. My guess is that mostly they do so because that is the way they like to play and I do not think that anyone has the right to tell them that their way is wrong.

[Nogrod]

Going against my promises once again but this starts to look like an actual game of ww where two innocents try to tear each other apart while they share mostly the same goal... :)

No where is it written that this game should be about thorough analyzis, it could just as well be about simple observation.

Whenever I seem to spot a wolf it is not because I look hard at every word he says and try to analyze it, it is often because I spot a single sentence that seem manipulative or something of the sort. I then say tbat this seems wolfish and that is my reason to vote as I do. That should be perfectly acceptable, I should not be forced to look at every word that the person has written and have an oppinion about it.I perfectly agree with you here!

I'm not looking at everything everyone says in a game and analyse their every sentence myself either. It would be 24-hour undertaking every Day - if that would be even enough... Indeed it's been a while since I've tried a "full-analysis" on anyone as it's so time-consuming and more often than not very unproductive.

But I hope you also agree that for you to "spot a single sentence that seem manipulative or something of the sort" you need the other players to actually post those sentences for you to spot them? So you need others to play to play yourself! Exactly what I've been calling for!

If people do not say anything at all (or just post once a day saying hardly anything), I my self would object to it. I think you are in your right to complaint about that, because people should not sign up if they are not going to play.Exactly. And that's what I'm mainly after...
The thing is that you broaden your chritisism to players who contributes and makes vallid points, they just do it to a lesser extend than you and in another way. My guess is that mostly they do so because that is the way they like to play and I do not think that anyone has the right to tell them that their way is wrong. You yourself quoted the part of my post where I said that this "criticism" - if you wish to use that word - was not directed to this game in particular. I have not broadened my basic complaint to anyone in particular. So it was a more general point. Thus you yourself are quick to run into conclusions as I have nothing against anyone who "contributes and makes vallid points". On the contrary. That's what I hope people would do when they play a game - whatever the extent or the way of their posting is!

Just two short points.

I've myself repeatedly said that I would love to try a different style to play these games. And maybe one day I manage to try it? But I couldn't think that way if I'd think that only one way of playing is right. So your speculation on what I think is clearly wrong. :p

What happens though in games where the majority posts little or at least clearly less than the vocal minority, the few loud players tend to get killed pretty soon because they are the only ones people will have an opinion. That's sad in a way as without those loudmouths there would be much less for anyone to do (much less sentences you might spot). But that's something I've accepted already a long time ago. This is a question of personal preference to be sure but I couldn't even think I could be in a position to require everyone else to play "loudmouthedly" as that comes naturally for some and would be very hard or even unpleasant for others... and we surely play these games to have fun, right?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Exactly. And that's what I'm mainly after...
You yourself quoted the part of my post where I said that this "criticism" - if you wish to use that word - was not directed to this game in particular. I have not broadened my basic complaint to anyone in particular. So it was a more general point. Thus you yourself are quick to run into conclusions as I have nothing against anyone who "contributes and makes vallid points". On the contrary. That's what I hope people would do when they play a game - whatever the extent or the way of their posting is!


And I think the discution is drawing to an end. . . .

I might be drawing conclutions, but I seem to remember a game or two where I and others have been told that we were way to silent and was "required" (that word was not used) to speak up. . .There can be plenty of reasons not to be posting much, other people might have made your point, you can find nothing suspiciouse or simply that you have been kind of busy that day.

Anyways I just think that the chritisism should be limited to when people are hardly speaking at all or when it really gets to you, this way you words will also weigh more.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Legate, I'm really curious....how did you pick the roles? Were they completely random, or did you pick them for a specific reason? I've just gotta know...
Well, I think a good mod reveals as less of his "cookbook" as possible... But since you ask...

The roles were in original totally random. I just picked a randomizer, put in all players' names, and some result came out.

But I didn't like it. It was unbalanced, the persons rolled did not fit the roles. So I rolled again. And again. And again... you know how it works ;) And finally, when there came a result that I liked, I said: "Yup. This is it." And then I just wrote down the list that came out of the randomizer, changed one or two names and that was it :)

So, here it is - you have your answer. :cool:

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I feel like I must apologize to Legate for ruining one of his special roles. :(

Yes, I knew Brinn was Turin from the start, and I had just formed the tiniest bit of a plan to that end when... I died. :(

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I feel like I must apologize to Legate for ruining one of his special roles. :(

Yes, I knew Brinn was Turin from the start, and I had just formed the tiniest bit of a plan to that end when... I died. :(

Why apologize to me? You were the harmed one... I hope you at least enjoyed the little time that was given to you.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Because you gave me a role that was supposed to influence the game, and I flubbed it up? And I did enjoy it, even if I did only manage to post once. :rolleyes:

[Brinniel]

Yes, I knew Brinn was Turin from the start, and I had just formed the tiniest bit of a plan to that end when... I died
Did you really figure out my role? Now that would've been interesting...

Anyways, you really shouldn't blame yourself for your death. Getting lynched on Day 1 is most often just bad luck, and it's a shame you had it.

[Mithalwen]

Sorry for not answering sooner. I am also sorry for a lacklustre performance. I had little time on my hands which was a particular hindrance with a RPG game and having signed up late I hadn't fully grasped the consequences of this - nor had I mugged up of the story ( I am so careful of my special edition CofH that I haven't got very far :( ) - so I was generally clueless . Also Nienor was a difficult role no positive power but doubly nervewracking! I did think Nogrod was Turin or Beleg since he was so sure that Nienor and Turin would both die if one died and that didn't seem to be explicit in the instructions.... trying ot defend him made me look rather conspicuous....