An Elf with shapeshifting ability? Why?

[Meneltur]

I have read the tale of Beren and Luthien, and it might have slipped past me; but how is it that Luthien, out of all the Elves can shapeshift? Is Melian capable of that ability? If so, it has escaped me also. If I remember correctly, Tolkien does not really give any background to the nature of her power. It seems that Luthien... just has it.

Also, I thought the ability to shape-shift was a power reserved to the fallen Maia such as Sauron. It just seems that Luthien was using an evil power to counter evil.

Even so, since Luthien had this ability, and through it gained access even to Morgoth himself, why did she not attempt to assassinate him then and there? They could have slain him AND taken the Silmaril. It just seems weird how Tolkien elevated Luthien into an elf who seemed to possess a power with more potential to defeat the evil which was Morgoth than any other high Elf, including Galadriel. I have not seen too many people speak of Luthien's power much, and I guess my main question would be on the specific and peculiar nature of her power.

Best regards

[Bêthberry]

I think men, especially men such as Tolkien, often have this sense that women are changlings who never seem the same they once or first were or who constantly confound them. And having had that experience, they don't much like to tell of of it, unless it can be put down to the woman's questionable slipperiness. It wouldn't bear telling about much, so it isn't something Tolkien choose to elaborate upon.

Or something like that. :)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, besides Bêthberry's answer, I think there's nothing as unusual on Lúthien's ability to shapeshift. I am pretty sure Melian could have shapeshifted, we are told that she took the form of one of the Children of Ilúvatar just because of Thingol (I could put a quote in here but I am too lazy now to look for it, sorry :) ). Also, she was a Maia, and they were all able to pick the shape according to their choice, at least in the beginning, so some part of this ability could have been given to Lúthien. (By the way that does not mean that Lúthien would've gained every ability her Maia mother had, just some of them, and probably with lesser power.)

As for killing Morgoth... I highly doubt Beren and Lúthien would have been up to the task. Even getting one Silmaril was enough, and if anything happened, the whole Angband host was upon them. Not including Morgoth himself. And Lúthien wouldn't risk Beren's life even if she had the chance to use some Elven or higher power to escape. Not that anyone could escape Morgoth when he was awake. Not that anyone could even kill him even if he was asleep, after all, he was a Vala. I think you'd find the best answer to this question if you asked Fingolfin. And, not to forget the last thing, stabbing someone in his sleep just is not a thing a person does in Middle-Earth. That's reserved only for the wicked evil creatures, like the Nazgul, Orcs and similar. It won't be fair, I am sure (not to mention that such a deed would bring reluctance among the storytellers and bards of Middle-Earth, they'd be surely strongly confused whether to even make a heroic song of it. That'd be the biggest crisis in Middle-Earth. So no, that wouldn't be possible).

[Meneltur]

How does killing Evil through stealth bring dishonor? Still, if I remember correctly, when they hewed the Silmaril from Morgoth's crown, the host of Angband was upon them anyway.

Furthermore, if Luthien's lot was to become mortal, would this not be a sufficient punishment if she has killed Morgoth in his sleep?

[William Cloud Hicklin]

Luthien does appear to have preternatural abilities with shapes and illusions (don't forget her hair/sleeping cloak)- but almost certainly this relates to her Maiarin blood. Note that Finrod 'by his arts' effectively disguised Beren's company as Orcs- but they at least were humanoid!

Ainur in general had the ability to put on and take off visible forms at will. This ability was limited of a purpose with the Istari (Wizards), who were a special case, actually incarnate in hroar like the Eruhini. It also is true that persistence in evil binds an Ainu- even Morgoth- to one physical form; which moreover tends with time to manifest rather than disguise the underlying ugliness. Hence Morgoth from the time of his meeting with Ungoliant was fixed in the form of "the tyrant of Utumno: a dark Lord, tall and terrible," and until the end kept the wounds he got from Fingolfin and Thorondor. Likewise Sauron after the Fall of Numenor was never again able to wear the beautiful disguise of 'Annatar.'

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

How does killing Evil through stealth bring dishonor?
I am pretty sure it's not the way things go in Middle-Earth. Imagine Gandalf or Galadriel killing Saruman in his sleep. Even Théoden won't kill the king of Haradrim or Aragorn won't kill the Mouth of Sauron* in their sleep; they'd first at last wake them up if they stumbled upon them, let them get weapons, and then fight.

Still, if I remember correctly, when they hewed the Silmaril from Morgoth's crown, the host of Angband was upon them anyway.
Of course, but they had the time to escape. Although it's possible that if they killed Morgoth, there will be total chaos and they'd have chance to get away (we know that it goes that way from other examples, like the escape of the Fellowship from Moria).

Furthermore, if Luthien's lot was to become mortal, would this not be a sufficient punishment if she has killed Morgoth in his sleep?
Punishment is something you receive for something you did. But the fact that Morgoth was asleep has nothing to do with the fact of becoming mortal.


*Not even while awake (pun intended)

[Meneltur]

Hey, I want to thank everyone who has posted here so far on this thread. You have helped a lot. Things are a lot clearer now. ;)

Best regards

[Lord Melkor]

Of course, the question is whether 'killing' Morgoth's physical form would have any longterm benefit. Though Morgoth was thoroughly incarnate by the time Beren and Luthien came to Angband to steal the Silmaril, he had infused Arda with so much of his power that the whole of Arda basically served as his very own One Ring. As such Morgoth could never be permanently defeated until the end of the world when Arda Marred would be remade and slaying his physical form would have no long term effects, except giving Elves and Men a brief respite while Morgoth fashioned himself a new shape.

[Raynor]

I wouldn't discard the moral factor that his death would have upon his subjects and enemies. There is also the diminishing of power that comes with building a new body, and I think this would have affected Melkor too (it affected Sauron, and Sauron was said to be greater in the Second Age than Melkor than Melkor at the end of the first one). All in all, it would have been a PR disaster :D

[Alfirin]

My Silmarillion is a bit rusty, But doent's Luthien's shape changing ability derive entirely from the fact that she is wrapped in Thuringwethil's shaping cloak/skin? if this is the case wouldn't anyone who had the cloak be able to shapeshift?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

My Silmarillion is a bit rusty, But doent's Luthien's shape changing ability derive entirely from the fact that she is wrapped in Thuringwethil's shaping cloak/skin? if this is the case wouldn't anyone who had the cloak be able to shapeshift?

Indeed:o It is true that maybe not every peasant would be able to do that, but who knows? Bless you for mentioning this.

*walks away, probably going to check if sclerosis is a serious problem in this age*

[Meriadoc1961]

It is obvious to me that I need to re-read the Silmarillion. It's been at the very least 15 years.

Thanks for the interesting topic.

Merry

[cesar.ewok]

Furthermore, I don't really think that anyone but the Valar had shapeshifting abilities (except for skin-changers like Beorn; but note that he could only shapeshift to a bear), because it's told in HoMe X that "Only the Valar and the Maiar are intelligences that can assume the forms of Arda at will." (My italics.)

Moreover, Elwing wasn't capable of shapeshifting into a bird without Ulmo's hand: "For Ulmo bore up Elwing out of the waves, and he gave her the likeness of a great white bird, and upon her breast there shone as a star the Silmaril, as she flew over the water to seek Eärendil her beloved."

[Elemmakil]

My Silmarillion is a bit rusty, But doent's Luthien's shape changing ability derive entirely from the fact that she is wrapped in Thuringwethil's shaping cloak/skin? if this is the case wouldn't anyone who had the cloak be able to shapeshift?

IIRC correctly, Luthien's ability to shift shape does indeed come from her Maian ancestry. This was ability shared by all the Ainur, and examples of it abound. Note Sauron's ability to take the form of a werewolf and Olorin's practice of walking among Elves and Men unseen or in shape like one of them during the First Age. Luthien, as noted by another poster, probably would not have all of Melian's powers, but she would certainly would be expected to have powers beyond those of any other Children of Iluvatar.

[obloquy]

IIRC correctly, Luthien's ability to shift shape does indeed come from her Maian ancestry. This was ability shared by all the Ainur, and examples of it abound. Note Sauron's ability to take the form of a werewolf and Olorin's practice of walking among Elves and Men unseen or in shape like one of them during the First Age. Luthien, as noted by another poster, probably would not have all of Melian's powers, but she would certainly would be expected to have powers beyond those of any other Children of Iluvatar.

No. The Ainur could change shape because in those instances you cite, they were not truly incarnate: they were ealar in physical "raiment." Luthien, on the other hand, was born, and therefore was fully incarnate from the start. Shapechanging among the Ainur was not a magical ability, it was their nature, as all forms were temporary for them; they had no natural physical shape. At least, not until they became incarnate--as Sauron, Morgoth, the Istari, and Melian did--at which point they lost the ability to change their physical appearance.