Pleased to meet you, Frodo... Reppuli?

[Thinlómien]

LotR has been translated into many languages, and my impression is that in most cases the names of the people and the places have been translated as well. I thought it would be very interesting to hear how the names sound in other languages and I thought you'd maybe like to know by what names me, Nogrod, Aganzir, spawn and other Finnish people have first learned to know the characters with.

So, without further ramblings, we have...

A fellowhip consisting of
Frodo Reppuli (reppu = backpack), called by his most loyal friend Frodo-herra (Mr Frodo, obv.) and who lives in Repunpää (Bag End), in Hobittila (Hobbiton), in Kontu (The Shire).
Samvais "Sam" Gamgi
Meriadoc "Merri" Rankkibuk
Peregrin "Pippin" Tuk
Aragorn, also called Konkari (Strider, even though Konkari's meaning is more like "experienced one")
Gandalf, Boromir, Legolas and Gimli

And then some other words and names...
hobbit = hobitti
neeker-breeker = skikirikittäjä
warg = hukka

Barliman Butterbur = Viljami Voivalvatti
Bill Ferny = Bil Imarre
Shelob = Lukitar
Old Man Willow = Vanha halavaukko
Treebeard = Puuparta
Quickbeam = Äkkipää

Bree = Brii
Brandywine = Rankkivuo
Midgewater = Sääskisuo
Weathertop = Viimapää
Laketown = Järvikaupunki
Dale = Laakso
The Lonely Mountain = Yksinäinen vuori
Mirkwood = Synkmetsä
Greenway = Vihertie
Gladden Fields = Kurjenmiekkojen kenttä
Dead Marshes = Kalmansuot
Dimrill Dale = Hämypuron laakso
Misty Mountains = Sumuvuoret
The Old Forest = Vanha metsä
Isengard = Rautapiha
Dunland = Mustainmaa
Carrock = Otavankalle

Shadowfax = Hallavaharja
Snowmane = Lumiharja
Firefoot = Tulijalka

And of course
The Barrow-Downs = Hautakerot
barrow-wight = haudanhaamu

How do these sound to you? :D
Are you interested in hearing how some other name has been translated or something else about the translation (which is, by the way, very well made, if you ask me)? Just voice your question here.

And if your mother tongue is something else than English or Finnish, feel free to/ please share some names with us. :)

[Kath]

Meriadoc "Merri" Rankkibuk
I love this one. Rankkibuk. It just rolls off the tongue so nicely. I'm probably pronouncing it wrong, but the way I am is giving me the giggles so I'm going to stick with it. :D Cheers Lommy!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I can easily imagine that if Tolkien was partially inspired by Finnish, the names could very well fit. Personally, I find them quite euphonious. It's partially as half-discovering a different world, if you know what I mean? I will probably spend some time reading it and trying to say it aloud. Really nice :)

And considering the translation details, please go ahead. I'm interested and if anyone wouldn't, then he can simply skip it ;)

All right. Here are some names in Czech. In general, the translation I think was very well done. The translator who did most of the work was a woman, Stanislava Pošustová, who had to work with some already lined-out names, because The Hobbit was translated first a long time before the other works, but even she considered it good enough translation, so she just continued in the line.
Here are the names:

The Fellowship:

Frodo Pytlík (literally meaning "little sack"), from Dno Pytle ("bottom of the sack") in Hobitín (Hobbiton), Kraj (Shire)

Samvěd (Samwise) Křepelka (meaning "quail". By the way, what the heck does "Gamgee" mean? I never thought about it, I probably subconsciously considered that it means the same. Now I can't seem to find the possible meaning of "Gamgee" anywhere.) Btw his father's name is Pecka, short for Peckoslav - the translator spent a long time in the appendix to LotR explaining origins of that one. "Pecka" is in Czech just the "stone" (of some fruit), or also a word for someone who just sits and does nothing. The name "Peckoslav" has the -slav suffix typical for ancient Czech (or Slavic) names, derived from the word "sláva" - meaning "glory". Similar names still can be found, for example my real name "Rostislav" is one of these having really ancient feeling to them.

Smělmír (Meriadoc) or Smíšek (Laugher) Brandorád (Brandy-liker)
Peregrin/Pipin Bral (Took, indeed as the past tense of "take")
Aragorn alias Chodec (more like Walker, also what you call the people who walk in opposite to those who drive the cars)
Gandalf, Boromir, Legolas, Gimli (losers...)

Other friends&villains:
Barliman Butterbur - Ječmínek Máselník (! does not have short version of the name)
Bill Ferny - Vili Potměchuť
Goldberry - Zlatěnka
Gríma Wormtongue - Gríma Červivec
Old Man Willow - Dědek Vrbák
Rose Cotton - Růža Chaloupková
Shelob - Odula
Smaug - Šmak (meaning something like "appetite" or "taste". That comes from the translation of the Hobbit - the second translator generally tried more to catch Tolkien's meaning in the words, though I find that one quite nice.)
Treebeard - Stromovous
(The Ents deserve their own category:)
Leaflock - Listovlas
Quickbeam - Řeřábek
Skinbark - Korkož

Creatures:
hobbit - hobit
neeker-breeker - škrkavka (the sound they make is "škvrk-krk")
warg - vrrk (Czech has a nice habit of allowing "R" and "L" to form syllables. "Wolf" is "vlk", thus, "vrrk" is a nice playing with the word while staying very close to original English sound.)

Places:
Bree - Hůrka (is also a part of Prague and a metro station - not so long, before it was a village on the outskirts)
Brandywine - Brandyvína (víno = wine)
Buckland - Rádovsko (cf. Merry's name above)
Carrock - Skalbal
Cloudyhead - Mračivec
Dale - Dol
Dead Marshes - Mrtvé močály
Dimrill Dale - Rmutný dol
Dunland - Vrchovina
Ettenmoors - Obroviště ("Giantshire")
Gladden Fields - Kosatcová pole
Greenway - Zelená cesta
Helm's Deep - Helmův Žleb
Isengard - Železný pas
Lake-town - Jezerní město
The Lonely Mountain - Osamělá Hora
Midgewater Marshes - Komáří močály (Midge Marshes)
Mirkwood - Temný Hvozd ("Dark Wood")
Misty Mountains - Mlžné hory
The Old Forest - Starý hvozd
Redhorn - Rudoroh
Rivendell - Roklinka
Silvertine - Stříbrný Špičák
Weathertop - Větrov ("Windy")

Shadowfax - Stínovlas
Snowmane - Bělohřívák
Firefoot - Ohnivec

And
The Barrow-Downs - Mohylové vrchy
barrow-wight - mohylový duch

(If anyone has trouble with guessing how the heck some of the strange letters are pronounced, maybe this article at Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Czech_language) may be of help, I see it is available there in quite a lot of languages.)

P.S. I could also say that the translator considered the Rohirric names to be translated in Old Church Slavonic, the first literary Slavic language, which was spoken here around 9th century. She said that she thought it would make the sound of the Rohirric names similar to how the English people hear them (like names similar to ancient forms of words in their modern language). She even started to translate it like that, but then she decided that though it would make a good connection on the language base, it would lead us away on the cultural base, while the Rohirrim are even culturally close to the Anglo-saxon civilisation. Maybe a shame for the linguists, since we'd have no Éomer or Théoden (not speaking of Eorl the Young and even older people), but on the other hand good for us, the names could be indeed too "exotic" for the story.

[Nogrod]

Tasting the Czech words was nice!

I'd just like to add a few comments on Lommy's list to show where the Finnish versions deviate from the literal translations (or where I believe they do it). Surely even words translated literally evoke different meanings in different languages but that would be a bit too challenging to try and point them out...


Meriadoc "Merri" Rankkibuk
- Sorry if I meddle with your nice feelings with this Kath but "rankki" actually means "distiller's grain". "Buk" then again means nothing in Finnish.

Bill Ferny = Bill Imarre
- It is a plant as well but comes pretty close to word "imarrella" which means to flatter or to cajole.

Quickbeam = Äkkipää
- "Pää" is indead "head", "end" or "top". So a "quickhead" would be simply someone who is fast at coming to conclusions, quick to act. So the connotations to wooden things to build with, to smile or to light are lost.

Brandywine = Rankkivuo
- Rankki still is "distiller's grain" and "vuo" is "stream" or "flow". So "Distiller's grain's stream".

Midgewater = Sääskisuo
- "Midgebog" or "-swamp" or "-marsh".

Weathertop = Viimapää
- "Windtop" or more adequately "Piercing wind top / head" as "viima" is no light blow of the wind but a forceful and continuos one.

Gladden Fields = Kurjenmiekkojen kenttä
- "Iris field". But here I think the translator has been pretty much the genius. The Finnish name for the Iris plant is "cranesword" (kurjen - crane's & miekka - sword). So if Tolkien was thinking of Gladiolus plant here as well as the latin word for a sword then it is a nice marriage indeed...

To sleep now. Nice thread Lommy!

[Melilot Brandybuck]

Quote: "Samvěd (Samwise) Křepelka [I](meaning "quail". By the way, what the heck does "Gamgee" mean?"

As a person who owns a horse, I know that a gamgee is an old fashioned word for the cotton wrapping you place underneath a horse's leg bandages.

Now I've just thought: Sam married Rosie Cotton. Any significance?

[Volo]

Haha! Interesting!

I especially like Midgewater Marshes - Komáří močály (Midge Marshes). Komáří močály sounds like "Mosquitos dipped" in Russian the way I read it. :D

Unfortunately/fortunately, I have read the books only in English, so no Russian or anything from me (Although it wouldn't matter even if I had read them in Russian as the new translation doesn't have changed names. :()

EDIT: Though, there are four or more Russian versions with at least the three first ones having translated names. And the Ukrainian version sounds funny, I'll search for it.

EDITEDIT (back to bad habits):
Bilbo Torbins iz Torba-Na-Kruchi v Gobitonii = Bilbo Baggins from Bag End in Hobbiton. (I imagine "torba" as a non-too-fancy bag/sack and Torba-Na-Kruchi literaly means "a bag on a hook".
Gorlum = Gollum.
Peregrij "Pin" Tuk = Peregrin Took.
Meriadok "Merri" Brendibok = Meriadoc Brandybuck.

Argh... I couldn't find a site with all the names so I have to search the book on the net, which is a bit annoying as it's in Ukrainian.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

As a person who owns a horse, I know that a gamgee is an old fashioned word for the cotton wrapping you place underneath a horse's leg bandages
A-ha! Then I don't understand why she translated it as "quail", but who knows. Thanks, I'll sleep much better now.

Now I've just thought: Sam married Rosie Cotton. Any significance?
Interesting. However, I was under the impression that "Cotton" is here some sort of word derived from "cottage" - I believe I read something about how Tolkien "translated" the hobbit names from Westron. Or I am just confused, because once again, in Czech translation, "Chaloupka" means "little cottage".

I especially like Midgewater Marshes - Komáří močály (Midge Marshes). Komáří močály sounds like "Mosquitos dipped" in Russian the way I read it. :D

Yeah that's right, it didn't occur to me! That's just too much :D

But if you could look at the Ukrainian translations, it would be nice - or anyone else having any input...

[Thinlómien]

So what about...

Gollum - Klonkku
or
Middle-Earth - Keski-Maa
or
Orc - örkki ...?

Some others...
Grima Wormtongue - Grima Kärmekieli
(Käärme is "snake" in Finnish, so no worms here, but I think Kärmekieli sounds much better than Matokieli, which would be the literal translation of Wormtongue.)

Leaflock - Lehvähapsi
("Lehvä" is an old-fashioned word that means leaf and "hapsi" does not actually translate as lock, rather as a tuft of thin hair.)
Skinbark - Karppunahka
("Nahka" means skin and "karppu"... well it doesn't mean anything per se (as far as I know), but it conveys the feel/air of something old and wrinkled/creased... It's also notably close to "kaarna" which means bark.)

Ent - entti
Entwife - entvaimo
Enting - enttinen
Huorn - huorni

Goldberry - Kultamarja
Tom, Bert & William - Tom, Bertti & Viljami
(What is curious here is that William the Troll shares the first name with ... Barliman Butterbur! I think this is because Viljami would be the Finnish version of William and Viljami just rhymes prefectly with Voivalvatti (Butterbur) and is extraordinary and old-ish enough to replace Barliman.)

Rosie Cotton - Ruusa Tölli
Ted Sandyman - Ted Hiesuli
Mr. Underhill - Herra Alismäki

Mount Doom - Tuomiovuori
Ettenmoors - Jättijängät
Westfold - Länsimantu
Icebay of Forochel - Forochelin jäälahti
Iron Mountains - Rautavuoret
Blue Mountains - Sinivuoret
Helm's Deep - Helmin syvänne
Hornburg - Ämyrilinna
Dunharrow - Dunharg
(This is a weird case, since "dunharg" or even part of it doesn't mean anything in Finnish , it is a very non-Finnish word actually. I guess the name has been changed - unlike all other Rohirric names - just to prevent it from sounding too modern English.)

The Finnish translation was made by Kersti Juva. The translation is widely appreciated in Finland and in my opinion, it's a masterpiece. It flows naturally and the translator has been creative with the names. This is a remarkable achievement, especially as this was one of the first, if not the first, novel translations she made. Nowadays she's quite old and one of the most respected translators in Finland.


Legate and Volo - those are very interesting, though I'm quite confident my mental images of how those words are pronounced are fatally wrong. ;)

I can very easily see Shelob as Odula (what a creepy name, though sounds like some latin term for some biological thing :D), Weathertop as Větrov and Leaflock as Listovlas. When Rivendell (which is Rivendell in Finnish, by the way) is called Roklinka it feels like emphasising the merry Elves in The Hobbit and the cliffs/rocks that shield the valley. Those impressions, I think, are only formed on the sound of the word. Calling Treebeard Stromovous is another matter... it doesn't quite fit my mental image... "stromovous" sounds like some big and ugly carnivorous thing... :D

[Volo]

(I'm not sure how to pronounce Ukrainian letters and how to write the pronounsations in English.)

Лист роботи Мелкіна/List raboti Melkina - Leaf by Niggle (book)
Мелкін/Melkin - Niggle
Бикорик/Bykoryk - Bullroarer (byk - bull)
Могильники/Mogylniki - Barrow-Downs (mogyla - tomb)
Підкопаю/Pidkopaju - Underhill (pidkopaju - dig (like in "I will dig a bit"))
Блукач/Blukach - Strider (wanderer)
Грайливий Поні/Grailivij Poni - Prancing Pony (playful pony)
Барил Барбарис/Baril Barbaras - Barliman Butterbur

More later, maybe in this same post.

EDIT: About Shelob being Odula: Does "odula" mean something or is there some mythological spider-creature of a similar name as in Hobb's newest trilogy there is a spider-shaped god called Orandula.

[Macalaure]

Great thread, Lommy!


Let me add my share of German names (far from complete, just the ones I found interesting):


The Fellowship

Frodo Baggins (Underhill) ~ Frodo Beutlin (Unterberg) (Beutel=bag. Just like in English, one would expect there to be a 'g' after the 'n', which is also omitted in the German translation)
Samwise Gamgee ~ Samweis Gamdschie
Meriadoc (Merry) Brandybuck ~ Meriadoc (Merry) Brandybock
Peregrin (Pippin) Took ~ Peregrin (Pippin) Tuk
Gandalf
Aragorn (Strider) ~ Aragorn (Streicher) (Streicher doesn't mean much, but it reminds one of Landstreicher=vagabond, which I think is slightly disrespectful ;) )
Legolas Greenleaf ~ Legolas Grünblatt
Gimli son of Glóin ~ Gimli Glóinssohn (not sure why they changed this, it makes it sound Scandinavian)
Boromir


Other people

Barliman Butterbur ~ Gerstenmann Butterblüm
Barrow-wight ~ Grabwicht
Bill Ferny ~ Lutz Farnrich (the pony Bill is also called Lutz)
Goldberry ~ Goldbeere
Gríma Wormtongue ~ Gríma Schlangenzunge (like in Finnish, Gríma has the tongue of a snake over here)
Grishnákh ~ Grischnách
Lobelia Sackville-Baggins ~ Lobelia Sackheim-Beutlin
Old Man Willow ~ Alter Weidenmann
Quickbeam ~ Flinkbaum
Rose Cotton ~ Rosie Kattun
Shadowfax ~ Schattenfell
Sharkey ~ Scharker
Shelob ~ Kankra (a Kanker is a sort of spider and the 'ra' makes it sound feminine. I think this is not a good translation of the name. The sounds of the two are just too different)
Ted Sandyman ~ Timm Sandigmann
Thórin Oakenshield ~ Thórin Eichenschild
Treebeard ~ Baumbart
Witch King ~ Hexenkönig


Geographic names

Bag End ~ Beutelsend
Bagshot Row ~ Beutelhaldenweg
Barrow-downs ~ Hügelgräberhöhen
Buckland ~ Bockland
Dead Marshes ~ Totensümpfe
Dunharrow ~ Dunharg
Grey Havens ~ Graue Anfurten
Helm's Deep ~ Helms Klamm
Hobbiton ~ Hobbingen
Lonely Mountain ~ Einsamer Berg
Middle-earth ~ Mittelerde
Mirkwood ~ Düsterwald
Misty Mountains ~ Nebelgebirge
Mount Doom ~ Schicksalsberg
Rivendell ~ Bruchtal
Shire ~ Auenland
Weathertop ~ Wetterspitze
Westernesse ~ Westernis


Various geographic names

Ashen Mountains ~ Aschengebirge
Brandy Hall ~ Brandyschloss (which makes it Brandy Castle)
Brandywine ~ Brandywein
Brown Lands ~ Braune Lande
Bucklebury ~ Bockenburg
Bywater ~ Wasserau
Crickhollow ~ Krickloch
Dale ~ Thal
Deadmen's Dike ~ Totendeich
Dimrill Dale ~ Schattenbachtal
Entwash ~ Entwasser
Ettenmoors ~ Ettenöden
Gap of Rohan ~ Pforte von Rohan
Gladden Fields ~ Schwertelfelder
Glittering Caves ~ Glitzernde Grotten
Hollin ~ Hulsten
Isenmouthe ~ Isenmaul
Lake Evendim ~ Abendrotsee
Loudwater ~ Lautwasser
Michel Delving ~ Michelbinge
Midgewater Marshes ~ Mückenwassermoore
Mirrormere ~ Spiegelsee
Old Forest ~ Alter Wald
Redhorn ~ Rothorn
Stonewain Valley ~ Steinkarrental
Wellinghall ~ Quellhall


Things that don't fit elsewhere

Dwarf ~ Zwerg
Easterling ~ Ostling
Elf ~ Elb (this is interesting, since the word "Elf" exists in German as well. As far as I know, Tolkien himself suggested this change, so that, at least in German, people wouldn't be reminded of fairy-tale Elves)
Fallohides ~ Fahlhäute
Harfoots ~ Harfüße
Neeker-breeker ~ Niiikerzriiiker (now, this one is just terrible :rolleyes: )
Oliphaunt ~ Olifant
Ringwraith ~ Ringgeist
Southron ~ Südländer
Stoors ~ Starre
Wizard ~ Zauberer


All these names are from the second translation, which is said to be the worse one (but how could I have known back then?). Maybe there are differences to the old one.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

The Fellowship's names in Finnish can't seem to merge with the hobbits' image in my mind, but I think it's caused by the fact that one is used to hear familiar sounds in the hobbit's names, considering the Shire "home". But...
Barliman Butterbur = Viljami Voivalvatti
Bill Ferny = Bil Imarre
But these fellas' names sound very fitting to me. And what you said about William the Troll's name being the same as Barliman's is interesting - they hardly have any character traits in common, but I could find some similarities on the feeling I get from them. And Bil Imarre sounds like a perfect person whom not to trust.

Old Man Willow = Vanha halavaukko
I just realized that this word is a good proof of the Elves' languages having some inspiration in Finnish. When I tried to say it aloud, the second word made me immediately think of "Valarauko".


The Lonely Mountain = Yksinäinen vuori
Leaflock - Lehvähapsi
Ettenmoors - Jättijängät
Iron Mountains - Rautavuoret
Blue Mountains - Sinivuoret

These are very good. Jättijängät makes the impression of something "with fangs and claws". It would take hard effort to persuade me to go there. I could live in Synkmetsä - that sounds very nice. While the sound of English "Mirkwood" emphasises the image of spiders in my mind, "Synkmetsä" is just full of ancient, big trees in the dark, some fern and several hidden creatures.
And the places I would certainly like to visit are Sumuvuoret and especially Hämypuron laakso. That's not just visiting Misty Mountains or Dimrill Dale, this is something more. I'm not sure if it is understandable, but let's say it like this: if I ever came there, these places would be, most probably, real. I have very clear image in my mind; of Hämypuron laakso with the stone of Durin and the crown of stars in the lake, and the cloudy heights of Sumuvuoret all around...

And calling a warg "hukka" is just too brutal. I won't be happy, during a walk in wilderness, if I were assailed by a pack of hukkas ;) Whatever it is. But it conjures in my mind the image of something living in Australian bushes.

I can very easily see Shelob as Odula (what a creepy name, though sounds like some latin term for some biological thing :D), Weathertop as Větrov and Leaflock as Listovlas.
It seems Leaflock is the most accepted in all translations (so far) - it's probably because of the "L" at the beginning.

When Rivendell (which is Rivendell in Finnish, by the way) is called Roklinka it feels like emphasising the merry Elves in The Hobbit and the cliffs/rocks that shield the valley. Those impressions, I think, are only formed on the sound of the word.
Well, actually your impression is quite good, or let's say, your imagination works well in this case, recalling the same images in your mind as for Czech people (or at least for those who invented the word). "Roklinka", literally, is diminutive (hence probably the tra-la-ley Elves) for "rokle", which is a valley with very sharp sides.

Calling Treebeard Stromovous is another matter... it doesn't quite fit my mental image... "stromovous" sounds like some big and ugly carnivorous thing...
Nice :) All right, let's make an agreement - we choose a neutral ground in Middle-Earth, far enough from the "civilised" lands (the best would be Dagorlad or some desert in Far East), and we'll make a reservation there for the most horrible monsters. For starters, we'll move all stromovouses and hukkas there...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Бикорик/Bykoryk - Bullroarer (byk - bull)
I got that one :) It's pretty good. By the way, in Czech he is named Bučivoj ("bučet" means "to 'moo' " and "voj" is a "host", also often an ancient prefix or suffix for proto-Slavic names).

Могильники/Mogylniki - Barrow-Downs (mogyla - tomb)
Exactly, Mohylové vrchy :) Do you know how are the Barrow-wights called?

Грайливий Поні/Grailivij Poni - Prancing Pony (playful pony)
That is a nice name. I would like to visit Grailivij Poni. Sounds more like a hobbit inn, though.

Барил Барбарис/Baril Barbaras - Barliman Butterbur
No, that one does not fit. Baril Barbaras is the name of Barliman's grand-uncle, who owned the "Pony" in times long ago, after the Fell Winter, who defended his inn and fought the wolves and goblins.

About Shelob being Odula: Does "odula" mean something or is there some mythological spider-creature of a similar name as in Hobb's newest trilogy there is a spider-shaped god called Orandula.
That is probably just a coincidence. Odula is... well, it's very close to the word "odulá", which is a... hmm... feminine participle in past tense... or an adjective... meaning "swollen".

Aragorn (Strider) ~ Aragorn (Streicher) (Streicher doesn't mean much, but it reminds one of Landstreicher=vagabond, which I think is slightly disrespectful)

Concerning Streicher, it indeed sounds to me like some sort of vagabond. However, that's good, because that shows the side of him as the Breelanders saw it.

However, sadly, I am not capable to make the German words fit to Middle-Earth - given by the geographical and cultural circumstances, I just know it's German, so any further attempts to imagine a "German Middle-Earth" as some different world are lost :(

[Nogrod]

Ent - entti
Entwife - entvaimo
Enting - enttinen
Huorn - huorniThese are just so Finnish! I mean they sound like things or creatures from the past of Finnish mythology...

The translations may look like just slight diversions from English but they actually sound very ancient Finnish at the same time. Maybe Tolkien was once again picking these from the Finnish phonemes?

~~*~~

Thanks Mac for the German translations! Even with my lousy-German knowledge - one course in the Uni about ten years ago - I do thikn I was able to appreciate some of the translations. I found especially nice the names like (from ones I understand what the German words actually mean) the following:

Old Man Willow ~ Alter Weidenmann
Shadowfax ~ Schattenfell
Thórin Oakenshield ~ Thórin Eichenschild
- These just sound nice to my ear. I don't know why...

Barrow-downs ~ Hügelgräberhöhen
- might look terrible but when pronounced is quite pleasant, awoking ideas of the Alps to me...

Hobbiton ~ Hobbingen
-ahh, that's just the cute way...

Misty Mountains ~ Nebelgebirge
Mount Doom ~ Schicksalsberg
- Sadly one might think Hitler could have resided in both of these places but they still sound quite grand...

Dwarf ~ Zwerg
- that's so short and pithy. The dwarwes have to be Zwergs when they are not "kääpiöitä"!

Fallohides ~ Fahlhäute
Ringwraith ~ Ringgeist
- Like from the operas of Wagner married with 19th century German idealism - and looking at the subjects they just could be that... :cool:

[Thinlómien]

Those German things are (sorry to say :D) awfully funny-sounding. In my opinion the language fits the hobbits' names very well (though now I'm imagining hobbits eating sausage day and night :rolleyes: ) as it does the old human-ish names, but on the other hand the ones that have something to do with Elves don't sound very fitting. And the word for Barrow-downs is just terrible... :D


Adding some Finnish ones...
Thorin Oakenshield - Thorin Tammikilpi
Lobelia Sackville-Baggins - Lobelia Säkinheimo-Reppuli
Sharkey - Sarkku (I like this translation - it definitely resembles the orcish(?) word sharkû)
Witch-King - Noitakuningas (this word always sends a chill down my spine, don't know why)
Legolas Greenleaf - Legolas Viherlehti
Bullroarer - Härkäräikkä

Brown Lands - Ruskeat maat
Bywater - Virranvarsi
Deadmen's Dike (love that name in English, by the way) - Kuolleenmiehen kaivanto
Grey Havens - Harmaat Satamat
Michel Delving - Järin Möyremä
Mirrormere - Kuvastaja
Paths of the Dead - Kuolleiden kulkutiet
Prancing Pony - Pomppiva Poni (="bouncing pony")
Wellinghall - Lähteensali

Dwarf - kääpiö (like Nogrod said)
Easterling - itäläinen
Elf - haltia
Halfling - puolituinen
Oliphaunt - olifantti
Petty Dwarf - vähäkääpiö (="minor dwarf")
Ringwraith - sormusaave (sormus = ring, aave = ghost, wraith)
Southron - eteläinen
Wizard - velho
Wose - metsäläinen (= "woodling"/"forestling")


And calling a warg "hukka" is just too brutal.Hukka is almost a pet name for a wolf. And it also means loss or waste or something like that.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Bert, Tom, William - Berta, Tom, Vilda
Proudfoot - Hrdonožka ("Pytlíci a Bulíci... Bralové a Brandorádi, Ponravové a Cvalíkové a Pelíškové a Troubilové a Bulvové a Kšandičkové, Jezevci a Hrdonožky." - "HrdoNOŽKOVÉ!")
Sackville-Baggins - Pytlík ze Sáčkova
Sharkey - Šarkan (this one's etymology is interesting, since "šarkan" is a Slovak word for [winged] "dragon")
Ted Sandyman - Ted Pískař
Thorin Oakenshield - Thorin Pavéza
Witch King - Černokněžný král (quite prosaic)

Ashen Mountains - Popelavé hory
Bagshot Row - Pytlová ulice
Blue Mountains - Modré hory
Brandy Hall - Brandov
Brown Lands - Hnědé země
Bucklebury - Rádohraby
Bywater - Povodí
Crickhollow - Studánky
Deadmen's Dike - Val mrtvých
Dunharrow - Šerá brázda
Entwash - Entva
Gap of Rohan - Rohanská Brána
Gladden Fields - Kosatcová pole
Glittering Caves - Třpytivé jeskyně
Grey Havens - Šedé přístavy (cf. the similarity with the name for Dunharrow; "Šedé" is "grey" (pl.), while "šerá" (sg., fem.) is derived from the word "šero", meaning "dusk")
Greyflood - Šerava (cf. Grey Havens vs. Dunharrow)
Hoarwell - Mšená
Hollin - Cesmínie
Iron Hills - Železné hory
Isen - Želíz
Isengard - Železný pas
Isenmouthe - Brány Želíze
Lake Evendim - Soumračné jezero
Loudwater - Bouřná
Michel Delving - Velká kopanina
Middle-earth - Středozem
Mirrormere - Zrcadlové jezero
Mount Doom - Hora osudu
Paths of the Dead - Stezky mrtvých
Prancing Pony - Skákavý poník (more like "jumpy pony")
Stonewain Valley - Údolí kamenných vozů
Wellinghall - Studniční sál
Westernesse - Západní říše

Dwarf - trpaslík
Easterling - Východňan
Fallohides - Plavíni
Harfoots - Chluponohové
Halfling - půlčík
Oliphaunt - Olifant
Orc (or Goblin) - skřet
Petty-Dwarves - drobní trpaslíci
Ringwraith - Prstenový přízrak
Southron - Jižan
Stoors - Statové
Uruk-hai - Skurut-hai (cf. the word for "orc")
Wizard - čaroděj

Lord of the Rings - Pán prstenů

If anyone is interested at looking at some M-E maps in Czech, I have some at our D&D group's page http://fellowship.ic.cz (with the dictionary provided here, you should be able to orientate in it with no problem :D )

Hukka is almost a pet name for a wolf. And it also means loss or waste or something like that.
And how do you say "wolf" in Finnish?

Anyway, it's a beautiful language. "Järin Möyremä". Or "Kuvastaja". "Lähteensali". :eek: (well that's not a proper smiley anyway)

[Thinlómien]

Anyway, it's a beautiful language. "Järin Möyremä". Or "Kuvastaja". "Lähteensali". :eek: (well that's not a proper smiley anyway)Funny you should say that, because "Järin Möyremä" is probably one of the ugliest names I can think of. :D ;) But I do like the sound of Finnish, mostly.

And how do you say "wolf" in Finnish? Susi. So a wolf can be called "susihukka" and that's almost a pet name. Though we have far more names for a bear...

And as a side note, Vilda and Berta sound very feminine to me, especially Berta. Prbably because Bertta is a Finnish girl's name.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Susi. So a wolf can be called "susihukka" and that's almost a pet name. Though we have far more names for a bear...
Uh, of course - I always wanted to ask you what your "fenris-susi" is. Now it's clear. However, "susi" to me sounds like some sort of sweet candy, while "hukka" sounds indeed dangerous. I can't help it :D

And as a side note, Vilda and Berta sound very feminine to me, especially Berta. Prbably because Bertta is a Finnish girl's name.
Actually, Berta is a woman's name also in Czech (coming from German, probably), though it's not much common. Not sure why the translator chose this version - "Bert" is supposed to exist as well, but according to name statistic database about 10 people in the whole country possess it. Vilda, though, is normal homy version of "Vilém" (William). Short versions of the names in Czech, even male, often have -a as suffix.

And concerning Järin Möyremä, to me it sounds quite nice and appropriate for Michel Delving. But it could also be a Ranger's name.:cool:

[Thinlómien]

However, "susi" to me sounds like some sort of sweet candy, while "hukka" sounds indeed dangerous. I can't help it Haha. Actually when I wrote that I realised that "susi" doesn't sound wolvish at all. But if you ask me, it doesn't sound like candy either. :D


Actually, Berta is a woman's name also in Czech (coming from German, probably), though it's not much common.I assume the troll was still male ...? Weird.

And concerning Järin Möyremä, to me it sounds quite nice and appropriate for Michel Delving. But it could also be a Ranger's name.:cool:A ranger?! No way! :D You should know how it's pronounced but I don't even try to explain... but I assure you it doesn't sound noble at all. To me it sounds like a stubborn badger, but that's probably because "mäyrä" means badger and "jääräpäinen" means stubborn...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I assume the troll was still male ...? Weird.
He was male, but maybe it was that by adding -a the translator tried to make it sound more vulgar, like Vilda.

A ranger?! No way! :D You should know how it's pronounced but I don't even try to explain... but I assure you it doesn't sound noble at all. To me it sounds like a stubborn badger, but that's probably because "mäyrä" means badger and "jääräpäinen" means stubborn...
I'm not sure if I pronounce it correctly, but if I do, it could be a Ranger's name. Even if it were to mean "stubborn badger" (after all, Rangers are close to animals, even to badgers :D ). I never said it had to sound noble - the Rangers just as Rangers do not seem noble at all. For a "common Ranger", like Halbarad or someone without any rank among them, it could be fine...:) But the main point, and the advantage of this, lies in the fact that when it's an alien word for me, I can imagine anything I wish under it - only limited by what it sounds like.

[Volo]

No, that one does not fit. Baril Barbaras is the name of Barliman's grand-uncle, who owned the "Pony" in times long ago, after the Fell Winter, who defended his inn and fought the wolves and goblins.
I double-checked, but that's what they call him in the Ukrainian translation. :rolleyes:

Gladden Fields - Kosatcová pole
Please, tell me what kosatcová means, because now I'll think of them as Cossack Fields...

And I sure wouldn't want to be a Czech Dwarf. :S A Czech Hobbit on the other hand sounds proper.

Hukka sounds pretty laughable to me from a foreign perspective. But then again, it's probably made like that on purpose.


More Ukrainian names:

By the way, I have a strong feeling that the Ukrainian G is pronounced like a soft H!

Тед Піскун/Ted Piskun - Ted Sandyman
Хранителі Персня/Hraniteli Persna - The Fellowship of the Ring (book) Хранител/hranitel - guardian/keeper)
Дві Вежі/Dvi Vezhi - The Two Towers (book)
Повернення Короля/Povernennja Korolja - The Return of the King (book)


Oh, it's too late, sorry for these half-posts, but I better go sleep...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Please, tell me what kosatcová means, because now I'll think of them as Cossack Fields...
No, nothing common with Cossack :) Kosatec is normally the word for iris.

[Thinlómien]

But the main point, and the advantage of this, lies in the fact that when it's an alien word for me, I can imagine anything I wish under it - only limited by what it sounds like.Indeed. *thinks of a big, ugly, carnivorous monster called Stromovous* :D

Тед Піскун/Ted Piskun - Ted SandymanGiving him that name robs him the last crubs of dignity, if you ask me... "Ted Piskun" sounds like someone outrageously pitiable. Maybe it's because "piskuinen" is a negative or pitying word to describe something little or tiny in Finnish.

And just to add...
The Fellowship of the Ring - Sormuksen ritarit (The Knights of the Ring)
The Two Towers - Kaksi tornia
The Return of The King - Kuninkaan paluu

[Volo]

Giving him that name robs him the last crubs of dignity, if you ask me... "Ted Piskun" sounds like someone outrageously pitiable. Maybe it's because "piskuinen" is a negative or pitying word to describe something little or tiny in Finnish.
Ha! That's because there are two very similar words in Ukrainian (or at least in Russian): pisok - sand and pishat' - to squek.

[Nogrod]

Ha! That's because there are two very similar words in Ukrainian (or at least in Russian): pisok - sand and pishat' - to squek.And because there are a lots of words "borrowed" to Finnish from Russian...

[Macalaure]

Reading this thread, I can't help thinking of Tolkien when he said he's "translating" the Westron names into English because otherwise they would seem as alien as the Elvish names. The Finnish, Czech and Ukrainian names give me the same feeling as the few Westron names that we know.However, sadly, I am not capable to make the German words fit to Middle-Earth - given by the geographical and cultural circumstances, I just know it's German, so any further attempts to imagine a "German Middle-Earth" as some different world are lostOf course, unfortunately, this effect gets lost quickly if one knows the other language. :(


These are just so Finnish! I mean they sound like things or creatures from the past of Finnish mythology...

The translations may look like just slight diversions from English but they actually sound very ancient Finnish at the same time. Maybe Tolkien was once again picking these from the Finnish phonemes?This reminds me of when I first read LotR in English, and was surprised to see that several Rohirric names (Riddermark, Erkenbrand, Elfhelm, Hornburg) were the same in the original as in the German translation. They fit in so perfectly with the translated names.


Barrow-downs ~ Hügelgräberhöhen
- might look terrible but when pronounced is quite pleasant, awoking ideas of the Alps to me...The problem with Barrow-downs is that there are no barrows in Germany, and because of that there only exists the more complicated "Hügelgrab", which means hill-grave.


but on the other hand the ones that have something to do with Elves don't sound very fitting.True. Especially "Bruchtal" for "Rivendell" doesn't fit at all, in my opinion.


I'd like to see translated names in more languages! :)
Where are the local speakers of the Romance languages?

[Aganzir]

Nice thread, Lommy. :)

Czech - I had no idea it's that Entish language. The Ents' names sound just wonderful.
And now I can't wait until I get to read Lotr in German. I have a copy waiting in the shelf, but I haven't had time to read it yet. Schattenfell, Hexenkönig - they just sound so much better than Hallavaharja or Noitakuningas.

If I pretend having no clue what hukka means, and think about the word itself, it reminds me of some horrible Japanese thing that teenager girls are attracted to. Thanks a lot - I've lost one of the nicest words of the Finnish language. :(

I have a copy of Lotr in Swedish so I thought I might as well post something. I don't have time for more today, so here are only some names from the Fellowship of the ring. Hope I have time to post more later this week.

A rough guide to pronounciation: å is pronounced like a in the word all, ä as e in help (or as a in bad if ä is in front of r), ö as u in fur.

The Fellowship of the Ring: Sagan om ringen (the tale of the ring)
The Two Towers: Sagan om de två tornen (the tale of the two towers)
The Return of the King: Sagan om konungens återkomst (the tale of the return of the king)

Frodo Bagger (Frodo Baggins)
Nedomkull (Underhill)
Sam Gamgi (Sam Gamgee)
Merry Vinbock (Merry Brandybuck)
Hjortrongull (Goldberry)
Gamla pilträdsgubben (Old man willow
Barliman Smörblomma (Barliman Butterbur)
Vidstige (Strider)
Bill Ormbunke (Bill Ferny)

Baggershus (Bag End)
Hobsala (Hobbiton)
Fylke (The Shire)
Gamla skogen (The Old Forest)
Kummelbergen (the Barrow-Downs)
Kummelgast (the Barrow-Wight)
Stegrande ponnyn (The Prancing Pony)
Myggvattensträsken (Midgewater)
Väderklinten (Weathertop)
Vattnadal (Rivendell)

Dimmiga bergen (Misty Mountains)
Mörkmården (Mirkwood)
Västerness (Westernesse)
Midgård (Middle-earth)

[Kath]

Hjortrongull (Goldberry)
Poor Goldberry! That just doesn't sound as pretty in Swedish. :D

Kummelgast I like though.

[Thinlómien]

Really. It seems that the Swedish language makes everything sound silly. :p I mean, look at those names. If I didn't recognise them, I would never guess those names were from LotR - I would guess they were from some children's book. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find Snusmumriken (or whatever the name is) or Lilla My on the list. :rolleyes:

(Hmmm... I did not mean to be rude, but you have to study Swedish here and I've only recently overcome my almost hysteric dislike of the language that lasted for years. *sigh* And when did you ever meet a Finn who didn't diss Sweden? ;))

The problem with Barrow-downs is that there are no barrows in Germany, and because of that there only exists the more complicated "Hügelgrab", which means hill-grave.
I see. It still sounds funny... I'm glad the Finnish translator decided to use the simple word "hauta" which means grave or tomb. (We don't have a word for barrow in Finnish either...)

And now I can't wait until I get to read Lotr in German. I have a copy waiting in the shelf, but I haven't had time to read it yet. Schattenfell, Hexenkönig - they just sound so much better than Hallavaharja or Noitakuningas.Funny you should choose those examples, because they are one of the Finnish names I like the most, both having the exact feel of the persons whose names they are, whereas I found Hexenkönig both impressive and comical (I don't know if I like it or not) and Schattenfell sounds more like a place than a horse to me...

[Volo]

Really. It seems that the Swedish language makes everything sound silly. :p I mean, look at those names. If I didn't recognise them, I would never guess those names were from LotR - I would guess they were from some children's book. I wouldn't be surprised at all to find Snusmumriken (or whatever the name is) or Lilla My on the list. :rolleyes:

:D Tove Jansson was the first thing I though of after reading the Swedish names.

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Fun topic, Lommy, and the Finnish words look so interesting! I like hearing your language; it's so quick and lively.*

There is an old thread which has posts on various languages and their translations of names and the poems. Here it is: Translations (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=1687) You might enjoy comparing some of the languages listed there.

Mac already listed a good many of the German names; let me add only a couple that he missed and some that are different in the first translation :

Gaffer - Ohm (an old word for grandfather)
Barrow-wight - Grabunhold (literally, "grave monster")
tweens - Zwiens (zwanzig is twenty, so it's a combination of twenty and teen, just like the English original)
neekerbreekers - Zirperkirper (I like ths word better than the new translation that Mac listed - the noise crickets make is called "zirpen", so I think it's carried over well)
Rosie Cotton - Rosie Hüttinger (This is derived from the etymology of the word "cotton" - it does not have to do with the fiber, but with a hut = Hütte.)


*I have wonderful memories of a Finnish trio I met years ago, who sang "The Gospel Train" in Finnish. It went so fast and sounded really cute!

[Volo]

Thank you very much for the link!

Among other I found the old Russian translation interesting. But really, the French looks (and maybe sounds) terribly un-Tokienish.

And funny that a Finn started the thread there too. :D

[Thinlómien]

That was indeed very interesting, Esty - I must say the Spanish one looked fascinating. Maybe I'll know enough Spanish someday to read LotR is Spanish... *dreams*

[Macalaure]

I'm not exactly sure why I did this - probably just to satisfy my inner geek - but I went through Wikipedia to have a look at some well-known names in many other languages (for completeness, I also include those already given in here):


The Lord of the Rings

Gospodar prstenova (Bosnian)
Pán prstenů (Czech)
Ringenes Herre (Danish)
Der Herr der Ringe (German)
El señor de los anillos (Spanish)
Le Seigneur des Anneaux (French)
Gospodar prstenova (Croatian)
Hringadróttinssaga (Icelandic)
Il Signore degli Anelli (Italian)
Žiedų valdovas (Lithuanian)
A gyűrűk ura (Hungarian)
In de Ban van de Ring (Dutch)
Ringenes herre (Norwegian)
Władca Pierścieni (Polish)
O Senhor dos Anéis (Portuguese)
Stăpânul Inelelor (Romanian)
Gospodar prstanov (Slovenian)
Taru sormusten herrasta (Finnish)
Sagan om ringen (Swedish)
Yüzüklerin Efendisi (Turkish)


Middle-earth

Srednja Zemlja (Bosnian)
Středozem (Czech)
Midgård (Danish)
Mittelerde (German)
Tierra Media (Spanish)
Terre du Milieu (French)
Miðgarður (Icelandic)
Terra di Mezzo (Italian)
Középfölde (Hungarian) (this one sounds very strange to my ear)
Midden-aarde (Dutch)
Midgard (Norwegian)
Śródziemie (Polish)
Terra Média (Portuguese)
Pământul de Mijloc (Romanian)
Srednji svet (Slovenian)
Keski-Maa (Finnish)
Midgård (Swedish)
Orta Dünya (Turkish)


I looked at several others, too, but I think this is already getting too much here, so I'll just post the interesting (I think) ones.


Frodo Baggins

Frodo Sækker (Danish)
Frodo Bolsón (Spanish)
Frodon Sacquet (French) (Frodon? Very stange...)
Zsákos Frodó (Hungarian)
Frodo Balings (Dutch)
Frodo Lommelun (Norwegian)
Frodo Bisagin (Slovenian)


Shire

Herredet (Danish)
Comarca (Spanish)
Comté (French)
Contea (Italian)
Gouw (Dutch)
Hobsyssel (Norwegian)
Condado (Portuguese)
Šajerska (Slovenian)

Is it just coincidence that the Finnish (Kontu) is so similar to the Romance ones?


Rivendell

Kløvedal (Danish)
Fondcombe (French)
Gran Burrone (Italian) (doesn't this sound like a nice Italian restaurant? :D)


Meriadoc Brandybuck

Meriadoc Brandigamo (Spanish) (doesn't this almost sound like Kalimac Brandagamba?)
Meriadoc Brandebouc (French)
Borbak Trufiádok (Hungarian)


Goldberry

Baya de Oro (Spanish)
Baie d'Or (French)
Baccador (Italian) (this simply doesn't sound female to my ear)


Barliman Butterbur

Cebadilla Mantecona (Spanish)
Prosper Poiredebeurré (French)


Witch-King

Rey Brujo (Spanish) (this sounds adequately scary, doesn't it? :eek:)
Roi-Sorcier (French)
Re Stregone (Italian)
Tovenaar-koning (Dutch)


Gríma Wormtongue

Gríma Lengua de Serpiente (Spanish)
Gríma langue de Serpent (French)
Gríma Vermilinguo (Italian) (I like this one :))
Gríma Slangtong (Dutch)
Gríma Ormtunge (Norwegian)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Today I just accidentally came upon one thing in the Hobbit while reading the English original. While reading Gollum's riddle about "time" I was interested how it sounds in original; for I knew there was a sort of linguistic joke in there. What was my surprise when I realized that the sentence (or part of it, to be precise) is completely missing in the original! After a moment of thinking about it, however, I came to the conclusion that it's not that surprising after all. Translators often have to deal with untranslateable passages and have to translate them differently. Nevertheless, it's interesting: the Czech translator has made up one more sentence, which was not included in the original at all.

I immediately thought if there could be similar moments in any of the other translations; and if anyone knows about it. If I were sure there would be some positive answers, I'd make a new thread about that, but since I'm not sure if it is not unique case, I'll include it for now just in this post.

The "extra sentence" comes right after the riddle. I'm not sure if the joke would be explainable, but I will try, just in case anyone is interested.

In the original, we read:
"This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king, ruins town,
And beats high mountain down."
Poor Bilbo sat in the dark thinking of all the horrible names of all the giants and ogres he had ever heard told of in tales, but not one of them had done all these things.

The Czech translation plays with the spelling. In the translation, Gollum is always lisping. That is not shown by any "sss" as in the original, but by changing the consonant "s" to "š" (pronounced [sh] as in "short"). That created an interesting situation for the translator.
The words "Slays king" are translated as "Krále školí" - if Gollum spoke normally, it would be "krále skolí". "Král" means "King". "Skolí" means "slays". "Školí" (derived from the word "škola" = school) means "teaches".
The translator probably had to make it clear that Time does not teach kings (though it does as well), but slays them. Thus, he expanded the sentence: "Though poor Bilbo understood that lisping Gollum meant "slays king", and not some teaching, he still could not remember that any of the giants and ogres he had ever heard told of in tales had done all these things..."

It's a little thing, but interesting, nevertheless. I am not much sure if it's funny the other way around. Probably not at all. But perhaps someone could provide us with another, (more) interesting "play with words" he knows from his translation?

[Aganzir]

But perhaps someone could provide us with another, (more) interesting "play with words" he knows from his translation?

But suddenly Gollum remembered thieving from nests long ago, and sitting under the river bank teaching his grandmother, teaching his grandmother to suck - "Eggses!" he hissed. "Eggses it is!"
The funny thing is that in Finnish eggs is a vulgar word for testicles. I admit it was very funny to read The Hobbit as a 13-year-old. :rolleyes:

[Halbarad-Ir]

Well, this some amusement. I'll add the Persian (Farsi) translations:

Lord of the rings: ارباب حلقه ها (Pronaunced: Arbaab-e halghe-ha)
Middle Earth: سرزمین میانه (Sarzamin-e miyaane)
Frodo Baggins: فرودو بگینز (Frodo Baggins! names are pronaunced the same of course)
Shire: شایر
Rivendell: ریوندل
Meriadoc Brandybuck: مریادوک برندی باک
Goldberry: گلدبری
Barliman Butterbur: بارلی من باتربار
Witch-king: شاه جادوپیشه (Shaah-e jaadoo pishe)
Gríma Wormtongue: گریما مارزبان (Grima maar zabaan)

[Lindale]

(this sounds funny in my language, as we've spoken English since 1900s. And a note about our language: we've absorbed a bit of Spanish and Sanskrit, but I don't know those languages, so maybe I'd)

Middle Earth - Gitnang Mundo or Mundong Gitna
Gandalf the White - Puting Gandalf
Grima Wormtongue - Grimo Dilang-ahas (ahas means snake) so maybe Dilang-uod?
Goldberry - Gintong-Bunga
Witch-King - Haring-Mangkukulam, Haring-Bruho (bruja in Spanish means witch; we don't often use the masculine brujo here)
Lord of the Rings - Panginoon ng mga Singsing
Shire - Bayan (but this bayan can also mean country, so the next-best is derived from the spanish provencia, probinsya in our language)
Ranger - Bantay
Elf - Diwata or maybe Engkanto, but the Diwata is the Galadriel-type of Elf, the ensnaring beauty plus wisdom of the ages, not the warrior-Elves
Dwarf - Duwende

[Nerwen]

However, I was under the impression that "Cotton" is here some sort of word derived from "cottage" - I believe I read something about how Tolkien "translated" the hobbit names from Westron. Or I am just confused, because once again, in Czech translation, "Chaloupka" means "little cottage".

I believe Cotton as a name does come from "cottage". This is what Tolkien has to say about his "translation" of the hobbits' names (from "The Lord of the Rings, Appendix F):

"However, in reducing Gammidgy to Gamgee, to represent Galpsi, no reference was intended to the connexion of Samwise with the family of Cotton, though a jest of that kind would have been hobbit-like enough, had there been any warrant in their language.

Cotton in fact represents Hlothran, a fairly common village-name in the Shire, derived from hloth, a 'two-roomed dwelling or hole", and ran(u) a small group of such dwellings on a hill-side."


Reading this thread, I can't help thinking of Tolkien when he said he's "translating" the Westron names into English because otherwise they would seem as alien as the Elvish names. The Finnish, Czech and Ukrainian names give me the same feeling as the few Westron names that we know.Of course, unfortunately, this effect gets lost quickly if one knows the other language. :(


This reminds me of when I first read LotR in English, and was surprised to see that several Rohirric names (Riddermark, Erkenbrand, Elfhelm, Hornburg) were the same in the original as in the German translation. They fit in so perfectly with the translated names.

Well, Tolkien's premise was that he was using Anglo Saxon (Old English) names to "translate" the Rohirric ones, so it shouldn't be that surprising.

Some names from the Australian translation:

Bag End = Swag End
Frodo Baggins = Frodo Shiralee
Lake Evendim = Sunset Billabong
Gladden Fields = Iris Paddocks
Goldberry = Nuggetberry
Redhorn = Bluehorn (Red-heads are traditionally nicknamed "Bluey")
Blue Mountains = Red Mountains (to avoid confusion with the actual Blue Mountains)
Elf-friend = Elf-mate
Legolas Greenleaf = Legolas Gumleaf
Riders of Rohan = Jackeroos of Brumbyland
Shelob = Miss Redback
The Old Forest = The Old Bush
Ranger = Bushman
Troll = Yowie
Warg = Dingo
The Watcher in the Water = The Bunyip in the Billabong

[Lhunardawen]

Grima Wormtongue - Grimo Dilang-ahas (ahas means snake) so maybe Dilang-uod?
Maybe Dilang-bulate? If I'm not mistaken, uod is maggot, but bulate is earthworm so maybe the latter doesn't work either.

[Aganzir]

Goldberry = Nuggetberry
What does nugget actually mean, if you don't mind me asking? I'm a non-native speaker of English and don't know Australian English at all, but I guess it doesn't have anything to do with chicken nuggets, which was the first thing to pop into my head...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I believe Cotton as a name does come from "cottage". This is what Tolkien has to say about his "translation" of the hobbits' names (from "The Lord of the Rings, Appendix F):

Thanks. I thought so.

And the Australian translation... I mean, are you serious? That sounds terribly funny :D From dingo - well, I would understand that, but then "Bushman" or "Nuggetberry" (I believe it has something to do with golden nuggets, Aganzir, which is the form in which gold used to be found) and... "Jackeroos of Brumbyland" cannot be really serious, now is it? You made it up, confess!

[Aganzir]

Oh, of course. I should've known that. Thanks, Legate.

[Nerwen]

Thanks. I thought so.

And the Australian translation... I mean, are you serious? That sounds terribly funny :D From dingo - well, I would understand that, but then "Bushman" or "Nuggetberry" (I believe it has something to do with golden nuggets, Aganzir, which is the form in which gold used to be found) and... "Jackeroos of Brumbyland" cannot be really serious, now is it? You made it up, confess!

Yes, of course I did!:D

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yes, of course I did!:D
But good job, indeed :D

[Nerwen]

Thankyou!:D

[Macalaure]

Well, Tolkien's premise was that he was using Anglo Saxon (Old English) names to "translate" the Rohirric ones, so it shouldn't be that surprising.Well, I didn't know that back then, so it was surprising to me. :D

But still, I think it's interesting to see how these Old English names can pass as Modern German names so seamlessly.

[Nerwen]

For that matter, the German-translated names you listed, Macalaure, didn't sound "alien" to me in the way that the Finnish or Czech ones did (me being a native English speaker).

I agree with you that Kankra is just wrong. The translator must have been trying to copy the way Tolkien came up with Shelob, which is simply "she" + "lob" (dialect word for a spider).

[Macalaure]

Generally, I think the idea to create a German name for Shelob by following the way Tolkien originally invented that name is a good one. It's a part of making the whole universe of Middle-earth feel familiar to a speaker of a foreign language.

However, there simply had to be a way for them to come up with something better than "Kankra".

[Nerwen]

I know. "Shelob" sounds scary. "Kankra"... nothing much. Could be a disease.

In this case I think the translator may as well have kept "Shelob". The name doesn't mean anything in Standard English anyway.

By the way–

If anyone is curious about the words "bunyip" and "yowie" (from the celebrated Australian translation), they refer to legendary monsters.

A yowie is a large shaggy humanoid (like a yeti). A bunyip is a water monster that lurks in lakes, swamps and, of course, billabongs, preying on unwary swimmers. Nobody knows what they look like, since nobody has ever seen one and lived to tell the tale.

On the other hand, everyone in Australia knows someone whose friend's uncle saw a yowie one night.

[Macalaure]

It's not whether a name means something or not, I think, but how it feels and how it fits into the sound of the language surrounding it. Having Shelob in the German translation would not have felt right (not to mention that it sounds ridiculous when pronounced German :D).

I've read "The Bunyip in the Billabong" for the umpteenth time now, but it still makes me chuckle. :D

[Nerwen]

It's not whether a name means something or not, I think, but how it feels and how it fits into the sound of the language surrounding it.

True, but maybe a meaningless sound-name would have been better? Historically, names have very often been adapted to the form of the new language, without worrying about the meaning.

Now, as regards bunyips: don't laugh– many of us half-believe in them.

A friend of mine was camping in a remote part of Tasmania. In the night she heard a horrible snarling outside (actually a Tasmanian devil), and she panicked: "Help! They told me bunyips weren't real!"

Actually, you can laugh.:D

[Thinlómien]

Okay, I've finally finished my project that took over a year :rolleyes: - I've read The Fellowship of the Ring in French!

So, here are some names for you (Mac has mentioned some on this thread, but a little repeating won't kill anyone):

The Lord of the Rings - Le Seigneur des Anneaux
The Fellowship of the Ring - La Communauté de l'Anneau
The Two Towers - Les Deux Tours
The Return of the King - Le Retour du Roi
Middle-Earth - Terre du Milieu

Frodo Baggins - Frodon Sacquet
Sam Gamgi - Sam Gamegie
Merry Brandybuck - Merry Brandebouc
Pippin Took - Pippin Touque

Strider - Grands-Pas

Bree - Bree
Crickhollow - Creux-de-Crique
Hobbiton - Hobbitebourg
Bag-End - Cul-de-Sac
The Shire - la Comté
Weathertop - le Mont Venteux

Bilbo Baggins - Bilbon Sacquet
The Sackville-Bagginses - Les Sacquet de Besace
Fatty Bolger - Gros Bolger
Ted Sandyman - Ted Rouquin
The Gaffer - l'Ancien
Barliman Butterbur - Prosper Poiredebeurré
Bill Ferny - Bill Fougeron

Black Riders - Cavaliers Noirs
Dark Lord - Seigneur Ténébreux
Mount Doom - la Montagne de Destin

Goldberry - Baie d'Or
Old Forest - la Vieille Forêt
Old Man Willow - l'Homme-Saule
Barrow-Downs - Les Hauts des Galgals
Barrow-Wight - un Etre de Galgal

Saruman of Many Colours - Saroumane le Multicolore
Gollum - Gollum

All in all, I'm afraid the translation is quite horrible. Names like "Saroumane le Multicolore" or "les Piliers d'Argonath" or "Hauts des Galgals" (although it's cute too :D) totally cracked me up, they don't sound impressive like they should.

Furthermore, the translator has been incredibly lazy and unimaginative. For example, when there's the gift with the letter "G" for both garden and Galadriel, he has just made a footnote that "garden" is garden in English. (In the Finnish translation, the translator changed the letter to V so that it meant both Valtiatar "Lady" and vihreä "green", which was what a good translator should do, if you ask me.) Also, when Legolas cries "Yrch!" and Gimli says "Orcs!" the stupid translator has them saying "Des Yrch!" and "Des Orques!". Okay, we know that in such pharses we need the "des" to indicate partitive in French, but why do you have to add it to the Elvish word?!? It makes absolutely no sense that Legolas would start it as it was Westron ie French and then finish with the actual word of his language... such a silly mistake by someone who's supposed to be a professional. :rolleyes: There are other examples like this but they annoy me so much that I won't repeat them here...

Anyway, some (albeit very few) parts sounded good in French, and I need to keep practising my language sklls, so maybe I'll read the two other parts of LotR in French some day... If I do, I'll come here again to share some more names with you.

Meanwhile, comments (and questions) are welcome and definitely new names as well!

[Morthoron]

No wonder why Tolkien disliked French. It's made his epic story sound like a bad knock-off of an Alexandre Dumas novel. En garde, Fougeron!

[skip spence]

I dunno, I have a thing for French I suppose; either it sounds very elegant or very vulgar it seems, sometimes both at the same time.

I especially liked:


Merry Brandybuck - Merry Brandebouc

Bag-End - Cul-de-Sac

Fatty Bolger - Gros Bolger

The Gaffer - l'Ancien


If nothing else, Gros Bolger is a classic!

And Lommy, don't you think I missed your dig at Swedish...


Poor Goldberry! That just doesn't sound as pretty in Swedish. :D


No, it does have a nice ring to it, translated it becomes something like 'Cloudberry-gold'.

Oh, the Aussie translation was great, Nerwen!

[Thinlómien]

And Lommy, don't you think I missed your dig at Swedish...Oj, nu är du säkert jättearg - förlåt mig! :p;) But what do you think of the Swedish translation, by the way? Because I have heard it's bad and those examples didn't really convince me to think otherwise...

And as for the French, I personally like these two:

Crickhollow - Creux-de-CriqueSounds funny.

Dark Lord - Seigneur TénébreuxSounds like a scary sorceror, doesn't it? It's much less "neutral" than the English one, I'd think...

[skip spence]

Oj, nu är du säkert jättearg - förlåt mig! :p;) Närå, jag kan aldrig bli arg på dig. :) Ärligt talat är jag inte mycket till patriot heller...
But what do you think of the Swedish translation, by the way? Because I have heard it's bad and those examples didn't really convince me to think otherwise...
I know it has been criticized for a long time and quite recently LotR has also been re-translated to more accurately follow the original, both in language and names (Frodo Bagger is now Frodo Säcker fex.) The old translator, Åke Ohlmarks, did take too many liberties, not only with the names but also at times quite radically altering the text as he saw fit. The thing is, while this in principle is annoying, I must admit that I quite like his translation, even some of his alterations, as they often have a certain charm. This is probably because I first read his version of it though. I haven't read the new translation.

[Nerwen]

Oh, the Aussie translation was great, Nerwen!

Thanks, mate!;)


Dark Lord - Seigneur Ténébreux

Sounds like a scary sorceror, doesn't it? It's much less "neutral" than the English one, I'd think...

Yes, that one's cool.


Bree - Bree


Well, you couldn't very well make it "Brie", could you?

[Morthoron]

Well, you couldn't very well make it "Brie", could you?

That one wouldn't cut the mustard, or the cheese more aptly. :rolleyes:

[Aganzir]

Närå, jag kan aldrig bli arg på dig. :) Ärligt talat är jag inte mycket till patriot heller...
Lommy var egentligen ganska snäll där. Vanligen är hon styggare när hon talar om svenska. :p

Skippy you should go ahead and post the new translations.

[skip spence]

Lommy var egentligen ganska snäll där. Vanligen är hon styggare när hon talar om svenska.


För tillfället är jag fylld av en nästan mordisk ilska mot allt som har med Sverige att göra (fråga inte!) och kan inte riktigt förmå mig att försvara mitt land och språk. Önskar jag kunde finska, det verkar om inte annat vara ett utmärkt språk att uttrycka svordomar och obsceniteter med. ;)

Skippy you should go ahead and post the new translations.
Like I said, I haven't read the new translation. I tried to google some names of people and places just now but didn't find much. The new names of people and places I found made me cringe though as a rule. I suppose Åke Ohlmarks translation is too ingrained in my mind and I'm too old a dog to change now. In any case, I don't like to read translations of books written in English.

Here are a few changes I found:

Lord Of The Rings = Sagan Om Ringen -> Ringarnas Herre
Hobbiton = Hobsala -> Hobbinge
The Shire = Fylke (unchanged)
The Gaffer = 'Gubbtjuven' -> Gammelfar
Brandywine = Vinfloden -> Brännevinsfloden
Frodo Baggins = Frodo Bagger -> Frodo Secker
Bill Ferny = Bill Ferny -> Bert Färne
Goldberry = Hjortrongull -> Gyllenbär
Sackville-Baggins = Säcksta-Baggerna -> Kofferdi-Secker
Rivendell - Vattnadal -> Riftedal

[Aganzir]

Önskar jag kunde finska, det verkar om inte annat vara ett utmärkt språk att uttrycka svordomar och obsceniteter med.
Hahaha! :D

Hmm, actually I think I like the new translations more, but then on the other hand I'm not used to the old ones (not having even read my Swedish copy yet :rolleyes:). Except for Gyllenbär. That sounds just awful. To think that I used to laugh at Hjortrongull! :D

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but The Hobbit was first translated like ages ago. I borrowed a copy from the library once, and it was awfully funny (but it was illustrated by Tove Jansson whom I adore). If I ever feel like reading it again, I promise to post the names here.

[Eönwë]

barrow-wight = haudanhaamu
The first thing that came into my head was Haudh-en-Ndengin. Obviously Elvish has some of its roots in Finnish.

Gollum - Klonkku Haha!

Middle-Earth - Keski-Maa

I just read that as Pesky and for some reason it made me laugh.:rolleyes:
Leaflock - Lehvähapsi
("Lehvä" is an old-fashioned word that means leaf and "hapsi" does not actually translate as lock, rather as a tuft of thin hair.)
I assume you mean it doesn't mean anything to do with a lock as in "lock and key" because in English you do get lock as in "lock of hair"


Huorn - huorni Haha! I was reminded of the "Middle-Earth Bumper Stickers (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=15188)" thread.



And on the whole I think that the Finnish translation gives it a very Middle-Earth-ish feel.

[Thinlómien]

I assume you mean it doesn't mean anything to do with a lock as in "lock and key" because in English you do get lock as in "lock of hair"Yep, I meant lock as lock of hair. :)

And on the whole I think that the Finnish translation gives it a very Middle-Earth-ish feel.I think so too. :)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I just read that as Pesky and for some reason it made me laugh.:rolleyes:

When I have read it, I know I thought about Esquimaux...

[Galadriel55]

I love the translations! Nerwen's make me giggle. Even though you mad that up. :-P


Some Russian (I wrote it phonetically. ch is like in cherry):

Baggins = Torbins (torba is an old word for a sac/bag)
Brandybuck = Brendizaik (I don't get the reasoning here, because "zaik" sounds like a rabbit...)
Took = Krol (this one's deffinitely a rabbit...)
Gamgee = Skrombi (probably comes from the word that means shy/humble)
Samwise "Sam" = Semmium "Sem"
Underhill = Nakruchins (Over-hill...)
Hornblower = Gromoboy (thunder-maker/drummer. Well, literally hitter.)
Goldberry = Zolotinka (Gold+suffix that I can't find an equivalent for in English)
Halfling = Nevisoklik (not-high), but in another translation called Poluroslik (half-high)
Ranger = sledopit (one who reads tracks)
Strider = Brodyaj'nik (Wanderer)
Barliman Butterbur = Lavr Narkiss (lavr is laurus, so instead of Gandalf making pun about butter, he talks about soup. ;) )
Celeborn = Selerbern (just cause it sounds better)
Celebrimbor = Selebrimber (same reason)
Treebeard = Dreven' (probably a combination of derevo=tree and drevniy=ancient)
Gollum/Smeagol = Gorlum/Smeagorl (sounds better that way in Russian)
Grima Wormtongue = Grima Gmiloust (Rotten Mouth)


Middle-Earth = Sredizem'ye (hm. Mediterrain. So quite literally ME)
Shire = Hobbitannia
Bag-End = Torba-na-kruche (Bag on a hill)
Brandywine = Brendiduim
Old Forest = Vekovechniy Les (Everlasting forest)
Barrow-downs :D = Mogilniki (barrows + suffix)
Bree = Prigorye (Next-to-mountain)
Midgewater Marshes = Komariniye Topi (Mosquito swamps/marshes)
Rohan = Mustagrim (from mustang), or Ristaniya (not quite sure about that one)
Minas Tirith/Tower of guard = Minas Tirit/Fortress of Last Hope


The Fellowship = Hraniteli (keepers... for a lack of better word)

LOTR = Vlastelin Kolets (literal)
FOTR = Hraniteli (keepers)
TTT = Dve Tverdini ([the] Two Strongholds)
ROTK = Vozvrash'eniye Gosudarya (also literal)




These are just some, but the list is quite long as it is... :-)


PS: one that deserves extra-special attention is the one and only (... at leas at the time of LOTR)... *drumroll* ... BALROG! :-D It's translated as "Barlog", since it's just easier to say. (hence the reason for me calling him 'Barly' in my first posts on the Do-they-have-wings thread)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hey, nice ones, G55! Interesting to read this (also especially because I can understand most of that, and so get the impression it probably gives to a reader...).

Goldberry = Zolotinka (Gold+suffix that I can't find an equivalent for in English)
Well, it would be a sort of... diminutive, right? It is very similar (and if you look at the first page, I think I've written it there) to the Czech name, which is Zlatěnka... in fact totally the same word (I wonder if some link in inspiration exists here?).

Rohan = Mustagrim (from mustang), or Ristaniya (not quite sure about that one)
Now this is really interesting - is it, like, really instead of Rohan? Or instead of "Riddermark"? Or something? I wonder what made them to do that, anyway. And the second word is really peculiar. Maybe something made from some obscure parts of the language? Brings once again into my mind this idea the Czech translator had (but in the end she decided not to do it) to translate the Rohirric names into Old Church Slavonic, to give the reader the feeling an English reader has ("the Rohirrim speak the same language as we did a thousand years ago"). Maybe there is some similar idea behind this?

PS: one that deserves extra-special attention is the one and only (... at leas at the time of LOTR)... *drumroll* ... BALROG! :-D It's translated as "Barlog", since it's just easier to say. (hence the reason for me calling him 'Barly' in my first posts on the Do-they-have-wings thread)
Hey, interesting! I can clearly see the point. Curious, but they didn't change Elrond, did they? Because I remember when I was small, I had exactly this sort of problem - or not a problem, simply a presupposition, I thought originally that it is "Erlond", simply because "Elrond" is much more difficult to pronounce. And I know several friends of mine, who know LotR only superficially, DO say "barlog", also probably because of the reason that it comes to them as more "natural"...

[Galadriel55]

Hey, nice ones, G55! Interesting to read this (also especially because I can understand most of that, and so get the impression it probably gives to a reader...).

I could understand most of your Czech translations too! It's funner when you can take a good guess at what the meaning is.


Well, it would be a sort of... diminutive, right? It is very similar (and if you look at the first page, I think I've written it there) to the Czech name, which is Zlatěnka... in fact totally the same word (I wonder if some link in inspiration exists here?).

I guess it's diminutive... I don't know how it's called in Enlish...

And Goldberry's name in Russian is literally the same as Czech. Weird!


Now this is really interesting - is it, like, really instead of Rohan? Or instead of "Riddermark"? Or something? I wonder what made them to do that, anyway. And the second word is really peculiar. Maybe something made from some obscure parts of the language?

It could come from some root that I don't recognize. One of the reasons that the name had to be changed was because Rohan just sounds too un-Rohanny and un-Tolkienny in Russian (and would probably be more associated with Genghis Khan than anything else) :p. "Mustangrim" sounds Tolkien enough, and you can associate it with horses, so it makes sense.


Curious, but they didn't change Elrond, did they?

Hm. :confused:

[Durelin]

Neekerbreeker = skikirikittäjä

That is such an awesome word. Though I don't know at all how to pronounce it properly, to me I can hear the buggy-ness/cicada-like sound. It's kinda creepy.

As for the French sometimes sounding a little less impressive...a friend of mine really got a kick out of watching Star Wars in French and hearing Darth Vader talk about 'Le Cote Obscur'...

[Galadriel55]

PS: about Elrond. If they changed his name to "Erlond", instead of Satrry Sky his name would come to mean "Lonely haven/harbour". :D

PPS: neekerbreekers = krovoprostsi (asking-for-blood. It refered more to the mosquitoes than the crickets - or whatever they were)

[Galadriel55]

Bilbo Torbins iz Torba-Na-Kruchi v Gobitonii = Bilbo Baggins from Bag End in Hobbiton. (I imagine "torba" as a non-too-fancy bag/sack and Torba-Na-Kruchi literaly means "a bag on a hook".

I have to disagree. "Bag on a hook" would be "Torba-na-kryuchke". Krucha - not to be confused with kryuchok (although they probably sound the same to those who don't speak a Russian-resembling language) - means steep hill or precipice. So instead of Bag-End there is Bag-on-the-Hill.

[Galadriel]

I just want to ask...has anyone heard of a Lord of the Rings translation in Hindi? I've seen several Potter books in Hindi, Urdu, even bleeding TAMIL, but not a single Tolkien book in any of those languages!