Middle-earth Bad Popularity Cup

[Macalaure]

Tough one, but I enjoy the evilness of Sauron in Númenor more than the evilness displayed by the Witch-king in LotR.

++Sauron

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Yes, for this match it seems to be Sauron of First and/or
Second Ages vs. TWK in the Third. Third Age Sauron,
especially PJ's eyeball variant, seems a touch lacking in
personality.

Actually they were both rather cowardly (or shall we say,
favorably disposed to strategic redeployments) in combat
situations.

[Durelin]

++The Witch King

I just have to. I normally like the minions more than the big baddies anyway. Of course Sauron is a minion himself, but... The nazgul (in the books, mind) were very frightening to me...much scarier and more menacing than Sauron ever was. This is only TA Sauron, but...I've only read pieces of the Sil, so, that's who I'm most familiar with!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I agree with Durelin and have to vote the WK. I wholeheartedly agree about the First Age Sauron (and Second Age), but WK is a nice guy. He's a Nazgul. In some way, I like him more than Sauron. I will go and like to have a chat with him. With Sauron, no way.

++The Witch-King of Angmar

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

++Sauron

Just because. :D

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Witch King of Angmar

He started out as "only" a man and
grew (descended?) into evilness.
Perhaps because he had been a
powerful king earlier he had a nice evil
way of psyching out opponents (almost
Smaugish). See: Earnur :D

[the phantom]

The Witch King is awesome. He could win this thing.

But then there is the argument that without Sauron there would be no Witch King.

But surely the apprentice is allowed to eclipse his master?

But then there is the first and second age... I just can't get past that. Sauron was so incredibly awesome. The business with Beren. He was soooo evil. And he could change into a flying vampire. And he's responsible for Werewolves. And he fooled people again and again. He brought down the greatest empire ever through deception and clever speaking.

That's just impossibly evil.

++Sauron

[Groin Redbeard]

++Witch King of Angmar

He has that mysterious air about him. I like that in Tolkien's characters.

[Eönwë]

++Sauron

In the first and second ages. Absolutely brilliantly evil.

[Mnemosyne]

There are some who would say Sauron is the lesser of the two, for he was beaten by a girl and a dog, and actually gave her the word that bound the stones of his tower together so that she could set her boyfriend free.

In addition, his ultimate defeat was brought about by a halfling, the weakest of the Free Peoples.

During the War of the Ring, he made hasty strokes that went awry, and mostly sat upon his keister for the whole of the Third Age.

During this time his minion, the Witch-King, brought about the general decline of the Northern Kingdom and the fall of the Southern line of kings.


Against this I say that the Witch-King was beaten by a girl and a halfling, and that they had not the spiritual power of Luthien, the elf/Maia hybrid in history, nor that of Huan, the greatest of hounds, who came from Valinor itself.

Moreover, Sauron's ultimate defeat was not in fact brought about by a halfling, for Frodo was overcome in the end by the Ring his creation, and it was only grace that allowed even for the chance fall of Gollum.

During the War of the Ring Sauron did indeed make hasty strokes that went awry, he was also weakened due to the fact that most of his strength had gone into his Ring. This Ring, as mentioned before, brought one of the noblest of the most stubborn, least power-hungry people, who was fully aware of what the Ring was and what power it had, to crave that very evil he sought to destroy, so that he fell in the end and though grace saved him, yet he could not enjoy the peace he had won.

Finally, Arnor and Gondor were able to rise again through the person of the King Returned, whereas Sauron destroyed Numenor, which never rose again. And not only did he bring about Numenor's physical ruin, but also its spiritual ruin, and he was able to do so simply through guile.

Therefore,

++Sauron

is the more badbottomed of the two.

Any guy who can, reduced to spirit form, pick up and carry his Ring back from under the ocean to Middle-earth is inherently awesome.

And he was a werewolf for a while. Don't forget that.

[CaptainofDespair]

++The Witch-King

Sauron is boring and lazy. He sits in his tower (or maybe the spa, who knows) and sends out his 'people' to seek out his ring.

And I adore the Witch-King and his many, many cool titles. Also, Barrow-wights.

[Morthoron]

++Sauron

Pffft! The WitchKing got beat by a girl.

*Notices the women of the Downs glaring angrily at him*

Ummm...look over there, it's Orlando Bloom!

*Quickly runs out of the room while the women ogle*

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Sauron-7 The Witch King-5

A disappointed but resolute Witch King was
seen getting on a pteradactyl with Khamul
to join the Resistance to Telcontar in South
Gondor while observing "I'll always have Angmar."

Next: Ar-Pharazon vs. Glaurung

[Andsigil]

The dragon who destroyed Gondolin vs. the man who attacked Valinor.

This is a difficult one.

However, Glaurung's actions were done out of spite and malice, whereas Ar-Pharazon's were done out of hubris. I'll have to side with the purer evil on this one.

++Glaurung

[Eönwë]

++Glaurung

As he's always been one of my favourite characters in the Silm. Evil, cunning, cruel, hypnotising and much more. Not to mention the fact that he's a dragon.

[CaptainofDespair]

++Ar-Pharazon

Because Glaurung never tried to attack Valinor.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Ar-Pharazon

Ar-Pharazon certainly had an advanced case
of Uber-hubris (arguably a "good" trait in bad guys)
while Glaurung had a more balanced sense
of how far to go (except for that unfortunate
incident at Cabed-en-Aras). :eek:

[Morthoron]

++Glaurung

Ar-Pharazon became rather feeble there at the end. Sauron turned Arphy's mind to a gelatinous consistency like Alec Baldwin does to his prey in that Hulu.com commercial.

[Durelin]

++Ar-Pharazon

His track record is much more impressive. I second CaptainofDespair...he attacked Valinor! And he's just man, a Numenorean, but still just a man... Also, I am voting for him now because Glaurung beat Thuringwethil. :mad:

[skip spence]

++Glaurung

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, those two are about as bad for me - one is a dragon with an interesting hypnotising ability, but he is such a silly worm that it's just disgraceful. Something like Shelob - slow, fat and dirty. Ar-P is, on the other hand, quite stupid. He was the victor, yea, but still... he isn't even as cool as the Men who became Nazgul - some of them were corrupt Númenoreans as well, but they at least became something interesting in the end.

I am voting

++Ar-P

for tactical reasons.

[Thinlómien]

Ar-Pharazon is plain disgusting. I kind of like the Númenorean despair and arrogance and even think it quite cool but Ar-Pharazon is too much of a brute for me to like him at all.

So

++Glaurung

He never was any special favourite of mine but you must admit his mental powers are quite frightening.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

In a spellbinding contest Ar-Pharazon takes
a dive (wonder if he ever learned to swim?)
Glaurung-5 Ar-Pharazon-4[/B]

Next: Bill Ferny vs. William

[Andsigil]

In a spellbinding contest Ar-Pharazon takes
a dive (wonder if he ever learned to swim?)
Glaurung-5 Ar-Pharazon-4[/B]

Next: Bill Ferny vs. William

++Mr Huggins, for pure personality if nothing else. And for being the only troll with a surname.

"Poor little blighter!"

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, I am torn. While I like Bill, Bill is far more interesting. On the other hand, it's true that Bill is also interesting in his own way - I mean, just look at the way he acts. As a villain, he is certainly not just "one in the row", he has some personality. But the same goes for Bill, actually.

Well, I will wait a short while with my voting yet. However, as for the matter of choosing which Bill is the best, I'd certainly say Hookbill.

[Groin Redbeard]

William is the only decent troll out of the three, so I don't see him a much of a villain; besides, there isn't a whole lot you can do with his personality. On the other hand, you have Bill Ferny, who might have been half goblin!:eek:

++Bill Ferny

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

William is the only decent troll out of the three, so I don't see him a much of a villain; besides, there isn't a whole lot you can do with his personality. On the other hand, you have Bill Ferny, who might have been half goblin!:eek:

No, he was a native Breelander! It was just his "friend" who was a half-goblin...

[Groin Redbeard]

No, he was a native Breelander! It was just his "friend" who was a half-goblin...

*Goes back and thumbs through the books* Let's see, what does it say? *reads a couple of lines before he relives Legate was right*:D Thanks for pointing that out Legate; though, Bill is still better than William.;)

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Difficult choice, but Bill does
have more of a storyline then Bill
so

+ + Bill.....(Ferny)

[the phantom]

Ferny was a slimy little punk who got pwnd by an apple.

William and company on the other hand ate half a village of people or so and sacked a dozen sturdy dwarves and would have succeeded in eating them if not for Gandalf.

Plus he initially suggested letting Bilbo go-
"Poor little blighter," said William.
Isn't that interesting for a troll to show sympathy? And when one of the others suggested holding Bilbo's toes to the fire to make him talk, William wouldn't let him.

He's a unique chap.

++William

[Morthoron]

Send not to know
For whom the bell tolls,
It's trolls for me.

++William (with apologies to John Donne)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

phantom actually summed up all the important things about William, and that's exactly why I like him. However, I can't help my affection for traitors.

++Bill Ferny

Say, it's just this Breelander, who'd sell anything to anybody... and he was dealing with the Black Riders! Now, William would have been really cool had he had a contact with the Black Riders... alas, he didn't.

[skip spence]

++William

Can't differentiate between the three trolls as my memory is faint, but they're all awesome.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Employing the Power of One Skip
decides this round for William.

William-4 Bill Ferny-3

Next, an interesting match:

Shagrat vs. Grima Wormtongue

[Morthoron]

++Grima

The nick Wormtongue alone gets him my vote.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Now this is what I call a hard choice. Two really nice baddies of about the same rank - they are both disgusting, in a way (I would not prefer to having them as friends, really), however, on the other hand I can still sympathise with them in some way (it would be cool to work with them - i.e. occassionally seeing them, as they'd have their own field of work - in Isengard/Cirith Ungol... although the latter is not a place I would like to be in that badly... Minas Morgul would be far better). They are both interesting characters, and really good villains.

Hmm... I have to choose yet :)

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

++Wormtongue

Because unlike an orc, he chose his lot in life.

[Groin Redbeard]

Grima is a corrupting snake who let his master work through him; although, I am sure that he is not without his talents of corruption.;) On the other hand, Shagrat was sharp to grasp the situation around him and quick to react to the circumstances. Shagrat shows more independency than Grima.

++Shagy Rat

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Shagrat (or his chum Gorbag) could have made for one of the
Professor's semi-throwaway stories (no doubt uncovered
in a philological investigation into the origin of orcish) or
perhaps as part of a "Concerning Orcs" section at the end of
LOTR. Perhaps something like the bit on the Druedain in
Unfinished Tales.

Then again one can imagine a chronicler in Gondor penning
a revisionist "Grima's Tale" with a sympathetic backstory
of unrequited love, working to save Rohan from inevitable
destruction, etc.

Hmm. + + Shagrat. Who would have made mincemeat of
The Great Goblin if he had been able to get back to
freelance gangsterism (just like the good old days with
Gorbag). :eek: :eek:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

On the other hand, Shagrat was sharp to grasp the situation around him and quick to react to the circumstances. Shagrat shows more independency than Grima.
Well, interesting, isn't it? He was not "independant" in the sense of duty: he remained faithful to the orders from above. However, I daresay that was exactly what showed his, hmm, virtue (if you can find something like that with an Orc... but apparently, you can)? I mean: he was able to overcome his selfish greed (which he certainly had like a good Orc) and he was able to decide for himself, independantly indeed, to follow his duties, even if it meant facing Gorbag and a scary Great Elven Warrior. Hey, how nice.

Shagrat (or his chum Gorbag) could have made for one of the
Professor's semi-throwaway stories (no doubt uncovered
in a philological investigation into the origin of orcish) or
perhaps as part of a "Concerning Orcs" section at the end of
LOTR. Perhaps something like the bit on the Druedain in
Unfinished Tales.

Then again one can imagine a chronicler in Gondor penning
a revisionist "Grima's Tale" with a sympathetic backstory
of unrequited love, working to save Rohan from inevitable
destruction, etc.

Aah yes, indeed :D (I like both the ideas.)

Hmm, so what... I might as well flip a coin.

We need some more Orcs.

++Shagrat

[Andsigil]

I hate quislings with an undying passion, so...

++Wormtongue

[Macalaure]

++Gríma

Nasty traitor wins over mere brute.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

In a close contest Wormy
sneaks his way past the noble Shagrat.

Grima Wormtongue-4 Shagrat-3

Next: Last chance for an orcsee to advance:
Morgoth Bauglir vs. Azog

[Morthoron]

No contest...

++Melkor

[Groin Redbeard]

Even if Azog is the most despicable orc ever, Morgoth deserves the winning title.

++Morgoth

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Well, for dwarf haters (not that I'm one) I
even find the petty dwarves rather sympathetic:

+ + Azog

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

++Morgoth

Because he was, after all, the "father" of all the orcs.

[the phantom]

I'm voting for Azog again. I gave reasons last time (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=585300&postcount=216) for why I like him.

++Azog

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Time extended for more voting.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

++Azog

Come on, Morgoth is so cliché...

[Thinlómien]

++Azog

Come on, Morgoth is so cliché...Things become clichés because they work so well. No bad idea can become a cliché. ;)

++Melkor

Although, I must say a Dark Lord is a pretty boring cliché. But I like him in the Ainulindalë. Besides, "Melkor" is just an awesome name.

Azog... he's just nothing special.

But I will not be delighted if Melkor wins this whole competition. He's too boring for that. ;)

[skip spence]

++Azog

A Great Orc he is. I find it interesting that he knew how to inscribe Dwarf-runes and had spare change in a familiar currency to throw at the beggar Dwarves.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

But I will not be delighted if Melkor wins this whole competition. He's too boring for that. ;)

And that's exactly why I was not voting him.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Azog put up a heady struglgle
against The Master of Disaster but
lost on a tiebreaker! If only Legate of Amon Lanc
had voted sooner. :eek:

Morgoth-4 Azog-4

Now on to the Elite Eight.

Carcharoth vs. Scatha (1)
(4) Smaug vs. Sauron (2)

(5) Glaurung vs. William (1)
(5) Grima Wormtongue vs. Morgoth (4)


Next: Carcharoth vs. Scatha the Worm

[Morthoron]

I will have to deviate from voting for dragons and go for...

++Carcharoth

There's just not enough info on poor Scatha to make him that interesting.

[Macalaure]

Scatha's armour is like tenfold shields, his teeth are swords, his claws spears, the shock of his tail a thunderbolt, his wings... not really there..., and his breath... umm... chilly.

++Carcharoth

[Nerwen]

What they said.

++Carcharoth.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

There does seem to be a surfeit of dragons
(or is it a gaggle)?

+ + Carcharoth

[Rikae]

This may be unduly influenced by the fact that I read a great fanfic about him once, but whatever:

+ + Carcharoth

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

What, people!!! You've got to be crazy!!!!! Scatha is the coolest (literally) dragon ever. (Smaug is the hottest. Glaurung, as stated before, is a stupid worm.)

Come on. He has cool name. He was killed by a man from Éotheod, that is, almost Rohirrim. Now tell me about anything as unique as a Rohir killing a Dragon. He lived in the Grey Mountains, but appartently so close to the edge of the Wilderness that it'd make you scream and run for Rivendell. Not that Rivendell would be safe. Rather, you'd run for Lindon.

And besides that, his mere teeth caused a murder, which is something not even a whole person can sometimes accomplish, let alone her teeth. So, really. Is there that much about Carcharoth anyway, in contrary to Scatha? He was just a lazy wolf.

++Scatha

And P.S.

If only Legate of Amon Lanc
had voted sooner. :eek:
Hey, it's if Skip Spence voted sooner. Or, if Lommy did not vote... hmph... ;)

[Groin Redbeard]

And besides that, his mere teeth caused a murder, which is something not even a whole person can sometimes accomplish, let alone her teeth. So, really. Is there that much about Carcharoth anyway, in contrary to Scatha?
It's more of the story that goes with Carcharoth. The only result we see from Scatha is the fleeing of the Dwarves, and the later dislike between them and the northerners. However, Carcharoth one of the chief evil characters in the Tokien's best love story. Carcharoth is the one who thwarts Beren and Luthien's plans just when the reader is breathing a sigh of relief, and later comes back and slays Beren (which was so heart tugging the first time you read it:(). Also, let's not forget about Carcharoth's legendary battle with Huan, where the anger of Morgoth and the justice of the Valar fought!

++Carcharoth

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Let it be noted that I strongly object against dumping Scatha just like that. He was one of the best characters in this whole competition, not counting several Orcs who have been already dropped. And don't say he didn't get quite a lot of support in the earlier rounds.

[Groin Redbeard]

Like Azog, Scatha has a cool name and is interesting to know about compared to how little is written of him. However, when you get to some of the hard core evil characters it is only right that they step aside.:smokin:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

If you consider Carcharoth particularly special... :rolleyes:

Besides, who was the one to vote Azog instead of Grishnákh, who was certainly as great baddie as Carcharoth (even far better from my personal point of view, but even when being as minimalistic as possible, you have to agree that he reaches Carcharoth's qualities, if nothing else).

[Tuor in Gondolin]

The Red Maw devours another opponent:

Carcharoth-6 Scatha the Worm-1

A fun fact: If you want your pet to grow up as big
and strong as the Jaws of Thirst this diet
regimen may be required:
Born of the foul breed of the Wolves of Angband and fed by Morgoth's own hand with Elvish and man-flesh in which Morgoth deliberately infused his own powers

Next: Smaug vs. Sauron

[Groin Redbeard]

Shoot, this is going to be hard! I like Smaug a bunch for his talk with Bilbo and for the wonderful adventure that he starts with Thorin. However, just looking at the name Sauron reminds me of how absolutely evil he was, you don't have to even try to think of anything for him. I'll have to think harder on this.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Btw, should Smaug prevail in this round
it should be noted that Carcharoth has
already dispatched two dragons, although if
it's Sauron then you have two of
Morgoth's favs one-on-one.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Oops! Accidentally posted twice.
So deleted second post.

[Morthoron]

I've always liked Smaug. He was very witty, and I love the acerbic repartee between Bilbo and the rhetorical reptile. Sauron...he's not so witty. Imagine Darth Vader trying to tell a joke.

++Smaug

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Indeed. I have to go for Smaug here. He is very clever and interesting, and he is a Dragon. And a winged one, at that. And I can bet he's going to beat Carcey with no effort.

++Smaug the Golden

[Tuor in Gondolin]

The Chieftest and Greatest of Calamities
has a more interesting personality, and may be
as mean as First/Second Age Sauron, so:

+ + Smaug the Magnificent

[Eönwë]

++Smaug

First of all, he's a dragon. And I also rather like his talk with Bolbo in the Hobbit.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Time extended for more voting.

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Personally, I have to go for

++ Sauron

When it comes to dragons, I'm with Anne McCaffrey: the bad ones get all the press. And if came down to Melkor versus Sauron, I'd be interested in seeing who actually comes out on top.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

voters?

[Nerwen]

Okay, okay.... As a fanatical ww player, I think I'll vote

++Sauron

...though how anyone can prefer those Pernese pet dragons to Smaug is beyond me.:confused:

By the way, Steve, who's Bolbo?:Merisu:

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Smaug-4 Sauron-2

Next:
Glaurung vs. Mr. W. Huggins

[Morthoron]

++Glaurung

He would smoke Bill like a cheap cigar.

[Eönwë]

++Glaurung

Need I say more?

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + William

Because he's (relatively) nice to
burrahobbits.

[the phantom]

I like William, and I'd also like to see diversity in the final rounds (we already have a dragon through).

But... really...

++Glaurung

I just can't go the other way in this match up.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Voting time extended.

[Groin Redbeard]

Votin for William wouldn't make much sense: he won't be a match against anyone from now on. Therefore...

++Glaurung

[skip spence]

Poor old Bill is hardly a bad guy at all, well, apart from eating a Dwarf or two perhaps. I love the fella, but ++Glaurung is just bad to the bone.

[Eönwë]

By the way, Steve, who's Bolbo?:Merisu:

That was just a test... yes, a test.... to see if anyone else is alert enough to vote properly. :p

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Glaurung-5 William-1 (poor blighter)

Next: Grima Wormtongue vs. Morgoth

[Durelin]

++Morgoth

Yeah. Also, Grima's not evil enough to move any further in this contest. ;)

[Morthoron]

++Morgoth

Hey, he's the Once and Future Evil. He'll be back for Tolkien's version of Ragnarok, and as Durelin said, Grima is only semi-evil or evil-lite.

[Nerwen]

++Morgoth

Poor Wormtongue is simply outclassed.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

You've got to be kidding. Morgoth? He is not half as interesting as Gríma. Come on! Gríma:

1. Throws Palantír out of the window
2. Stabs Saruman
3. Looks at Gandalf like mad when he asks him whether he does not want to leave Saruman
4. Eats Lotho (okay, we didn't want to hear that)
5. Was a noble of Rohan (combine with the one above) and served his master honestly in the beginning
6. Was seen riding with a group of Orcs
7. is son of Gálmód, which just sounds too cool
8. was being picked up from the saddle by Treebeard and later, he was swimming to Orthanc.

And, eventually, in one version of the Hunt of the Ring, he was caught and intimidated by the Black Riders, WK himself, no less.

Morgoth was just a Dark Lord. We have seen many of those, he invented lots of interesting dragons and such, but then, that's just his job. Gríma is a MAN with a LIFE. He is very interesting.

++Gríma Wormtongue

[Nerwen]

Hey Tuor, why don't you pit Smaug and Glaurung against each other next round?

That would be cool.:cool:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hey Tuor, why don't you pit Smaug and Glaurung against each other next round?

That would be cool.:cool:

Not necessarily. Smaug is the coolest dragon ev@, while Glaurung is just a witless worm.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

4. Eats Lotho (okay, we didn't want to hear that)

Actually that may have been a misunderstanding in
translation from Rohirric.
Gandalf asked Grima if he liked hobbits and he thought
Grima replied: "If they're prepared properly."

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

For me, it must be

++Morgoth

who, in Middle-earth, is the root of all evil -- unlike our real earth, wherein it has been amply proved in recent times that the love of all money does indeed appear to be the wellspring (sigh). :(

[Thinlómien]

++Gríma

Hey come one Morgoth's boring while Gríma truly is a character! Do you really want this game to have such really "basic" finalists as Glaurung and Morgoth? Blaah...

[skip spence]

++Gríma

Hey come one Morgoth's boring while Gríma truly is a character! Do you really want this game to have such really "basic" finalists as Glaurung and Morgoth? Blaah...
I'd hate to see Morgoth winning too, but Wormtongue even more so. I can't believe he's made it this far and for him to eliminate The Marrer himself just isn't right. He ain't worthy to kiss the soles of ++Morgoth's iron boots.

[Rikae]

A tough choice, but I like a little moral ambiguity in my villains. Characters over archetypes.

++Grima

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Yea, yea, good, go, go, go, Lommy, Rikae!!! And you, Skip, be ashamed of yourself and go bury yourself somewhere. Bah, voting in such a cliché-ish way... (And besides, obviously bandwaggoning. I think he voted Morgoth just to save a fellow Wolf.)

[Thinlómien]

And you, Skip, be ashamed of yourself and go bury yourself somewhere. Bah, voting in such a cliché-ish way... (And besides, obviously bandwaggoning. I think he voted Morgoth just to save a fellow Wolf.)Oh, come on, he's just silly because he's Swedish... ;):p:Merisu:

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Grima Wormtongue

Since he didn't get the girl and didn't get the
chance to become a best selling vegan
author.

[skip spence]

Oh, come on, he's just silly because he's Swedish... ;):p:Merisu:

No it's the other way around: I'm Swedish because I'm silly.

And I would go bury myself if I only could figure out how to cover myself up with dirt and at the same time lie down in an open grave. Oh well...

[Thinlómien]

No it's the other way around: I'm Swedish because I'm silly.

And I would go bury myself if I only could figure out how to cover myself up with dirt and at the same time lie down in an open grave. Oh well...:D:D I can lend a hand. ;)

[Nogrod]

So the ME popularity cup must be won by Gandalf or Frodo and the ME bad popularity cup must be won by Sauron or Morgoth?

Give me a break people! :)

++ Grima

Let's make this more interesting.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Velee interesting. With time running out for the
Marrer of Middle-earth he's trailing Wormy .
As Zero Mostel said to Gene Wilder in The Pruducers:

Leo: May I speak to you for a minute?
Max: [pulls out stop watch] Go. You have 58 seconds.
Leo: Well, in glancing at your books, I noticed that...
Max: you have 48 seconds left. Hurry hurry.
Leo: Oh, I glanced at your books, I noticed...
Max: 28 seconds. You're running out of time.
Leo: [Trying to explain, getting more nervous]
Max: Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock...

Also: Originally Posted by Nerwen
Hey Tuor, why don't you pit Smaug and Glaurung against each other next round?

Hmm. Anti-dragon sentiment? Now who wished that there might be no
border between Orthanc and Mordor so they'd go against each other?

And anyway, that would be interfering in the brackets. Of course, it
would probably help Wormy. Hmm...........!

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Grima Wormtongue-5 Morgoth-4

Another upset to go with:
5) The Amazin' Mets 1969 World Series win against
the Baltimore Orioles

4) 1933: Walsall 2-0 ArsenalDivision 3 South Walsall faced a hopeless situation when they drew first league leaders Arsenal for their 3rd round FA Cup playoff. At the time, the professional Arsenal team was worth thousands of pounds, whereas little Walsall’s team cost only £70. However, Arsenal manager Herbert Chapman made one fatal error. Believing the result was a foregone conclusion, he rested three of his top players. Walsall took its chance and scored two unanswered goals, to hand Arsenal a humiliating defeat.

3) 1980 Miracle on Ice U.S.A. over Russkies

2) Kim Cattrall upsets tennis fans: SEX AND THE CITY star KIM CATTRALL has angered sports fans and shown her lack of tennis know-how at the opening of the US OPEN championship in New York.

Kim - who plays sex-mad SAMANTHA in the hit show - was at Monday's start of the tournament when she walked out of the match between LLEYTON HEWITT and VICTOR HANESCU at an inappropriate moment.

The 47-year-old actress left at the end of an even-numbered game - angering spectators, who know you should only leave after odd-numbered games, when the players are swapping sides.
:D

1) Frodo does not win Middle-earth Popularity Cup !

On to the semi-finals!

Carcharoth vs. Smaug
Glaurung vs. Grima son of Galmod

Next: Carcharoth vs. Smaug

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hooray! Gríma rulezz!!! :cool: :D

I like the way it came out, even though we could have been a bit more original still, but good, good. Thanks to good master Noggins, we have neither Sauron nor Morgoth here. Just a pity no Orc made it through...

As for the current match:

++Smaug

[Eönwë]

I don't like Carcharoth.

++Smaug


Ps. Yes, it's that simple.

[Morthoron]

++Smaug

Wolves...they're so real world. This is a fantasy, after all.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

An argument for The Red Maw could be
that he was the greatest wolf to ever live (and
took out the Hound of Valinor ) while it
would hardly be argued that Smaug the Magnificent
was the greatest dragon to ever live (and, after all,
he was taken out by one human archer).

Just saying...

Now, as for voting...um...(later).

[Macalaure]

I do like Carcharoth. :)

++Carcharoth

[skip spence]

Grima Wormtongue-5 Morgoth-4


I will have to question that result. Or is this not a democratic board where each member's vote carries the same weight?

Nerwen, Morthoron, Durelin, Ibrin and yours truly voted for Morgoth. See, there's five of us! Has Grima payed off the judges or what?

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

Oh, dear. Canine/lupine breath or dragon breath (or Worm breath, in Grima's case). Don't care for either, so I'm bowing out of the voting. Have fun, all. :)

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Skip Spence is quite correct. I missed his
vote because it was at the end of his post
(not seperate before or after the body of the post).
That means that my posted results were incorrect,
since Morgoth wins on a tiebreaker. :o

Results shoul;d have been
Morgoth-5 Grima Wormtongue-5 .

So corrected final four are:
Carcharoth vs. Smaug
Glaurung vs. Morgoth

Sorry, everyone. especially Grima fans
like Legate for the error.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Sorry, everyone. especially Grima fans
like Legate for the error.

Gosh. In that case, Morgoth is already dead. :(

[skip spence]

Gosh. In that case, Morgoth is already dead. :(
Bwahaha *evil laugh*

This is just the kind of victory old Morgy will relish.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Bwahaha *evil laugh*

This is just the kind of victory old Morgy will relish.

But Gríma almost won in such an admirably traitor-ish way. :(

[Nogrod]

Grima earned his victory just looking at the way it did almost happen... it's his character that won! Now this is ME Bad Popularity Cup! Do you really think something as fair as "rules" should apply here? I'm very disappointed with the final decision and hope the evil powers will twist the ending for real (like the Downs getting down just as a less known baddie is in the lead and then we can protest if someonwe wants the obvious and foreseen winner to have more time to be voted for or something). :p

So Morgoth seems to win... how lame indeed. :(

I thought people would have had some sense of sportsmanship here.

Okay. I need to wait to see which one could beat Morgoth in the final! Speak up people! Let's form a conspiracy against Morgoth and gather our banners behind the one we would be happier to see meeting Morgoth; forgetting our differences between the great werewolf and the keeper of the lonely mountain! Our enenmies just love to see us split in our ranks.

I'd go for Carcaroth but I'll be ready to vote for Smaug if it would get the better hand in the final...

And for sure I will vote for Glaurung in the next semifinal...

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Very well done, Nogrod! I suggest we forge several Rings and make all the voters wear it, while we are going to secretly forge one more to rule them all. (And I will of course forge another for myself to rule that one.)

I think Smaug, if anybody, deserves victory over Morgoth and he is far likely to gather support than the wolf, I'd presume. To vote Glaurung is without question, even though I might like Melkor more in some ways, but he just does not deserve to win. That'd be truly too dull outcome of all this voting.

[Nogrod]

I might like Melkor more in some ways, but he just does not deserve to win. That'd be truly too dull outcome of all this voting.Exactly!

It's time for meta-reasoning up here! So take your time.

I'm ready to vote for Smaug if it's the one you would think that would be able to challenge Melkor. And let's join forces to beat Morgoth on the next round already. That would be our safest option... :D

And Legate & the subject of the rings... you just try your magic but don't be too confident with it... there may be forces stronger than that - and we need to count that in as well! Jut look what happened to Sauron with his obsession with Rings... :rolleyes:

[Rikae]

It's a shame Sharky isn't here...

++Carky

Because I don't want the final to be between two dragons - boring. :rolleyes:

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

So Morgoth seems to win... how lame indeed.

Welcome to the world of politics. :D

Actually, my "favorite" baddie wasn't even in the running to begin with. Where was Gollum? :confused:

[Nogrod]

Because I don't want the final to be between two dragons - boring. :rolleyes:That's a case in point! But still I think getting rid of Morgoth is our task number one right now... and I'm not so sure Glaurung will beat Melkor even if we try to rally people to see the reason behind the badness here.

So where are your affinities Rikae on the next round? Are you trying to lure people into not-voting dragons to pave way for voting Melkor? Or will you stand by Carcaroth to the end?

[Nogrod]

Welcome to the world of politics. :D :D
Exactly...

But happily this doesn't affect our daily income, prospects or general possibilities as politics do. :rolleyes:

[Rikae]

That's a case in point! But still I think getting rid of Morgoth is our task number one right now... and I'm not so sure Glaurung will beat Melkor even if we try to rally people to see the reason behind the badness here.

So where are your affinities Rikae on the next round? Are you trying to lure people into not-voting dragons to pave way for voting Melkor? Or will you stand by Carcaroth to the end?

Trying to convince people not to vote for a known wolf? Cobbler! :D

I'm not sure which way I would go in the case of a Carcaroth vs. Glaurung final, but I share your commitment to knocking Morgoth out of the running.

I mean, sure, he's kinda cool, but if you think about it, his original claim to evilness amounts to singing off-key. I can't help but think of him as a teenage boy who annoys his father with his death metal garage band. :p

[Tuor in Gondolin]

The vote so far (I Hope)
Smaug-3 Carcharoth-2

Hey, my first year in college I failed a math course. :)

I then switched majors to History.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Smaug

Because he's no Morgoth acolyte
and could take him out on sarcasm alone.

Vote so far
Smaug-4 Carcharoth-2

[Thinlómien]

++Smaug

for being considerably more interesting and a more likely candidate to beat Morgoth.;)

[skip spence]

:DI can lend a hand. ;)
Oh dear. I do hope we can find a better use for your pretty little hands.:p

++Smaug

And yeah, hail Morgoth, Giver of Freedom and Lord of All!

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Vote to date
Smaug-6 Carcharoth-2

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Exactly!

It's time for meta-reasoning up here! So take your time.

I'm ready to vote for Smaug if it's the one you would think that would be able to challenge Melkor. And let's join forces to beat Morgoth on the next round already. That would be our safest option... :D
Obviously. However, you see, it could not have resorted to this had people not voted so carelessly the "cliché" guys like Morgoth or Sauron in the earlier rounds already... it's the same as in the previous popularity cup, where you end up with Gandalf and Frodo, or what was it... come on...

Because I don't want the final to be between two dragons - boring. :rolleyes:
Yes, I thought about that as well - but you (all people) should have thought about that in the earlier rounds!

Actually, my "favorite" baddie wasn't even in the running to begin with. Where was Gollum? :confused:
Well, for example I don't consider Gollum a baddie... certainly not of the same sort as the Dragons, the Nazgul, Sauron... you name it. (Although there were some even in this contest, true... like the Master of Lake-Town... but with him, still, he is somewhat "plain negative" in some aspects, he is more of a baddie than Gollum, who is just too... complex to be classified as mere baddie.)

And yeah, hail Morgoth, Giver of Freedom and Lord of All!

I say we bury him also with you, since you are so good friends...

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Originally Posted by Ibrîniðilpathânezel
Actually, my "favorite" baddie wasn't even in the running to begin with. Where was Gollum?

I did consider Smeagol, but especially book Gollum
is really more tragic then irredemably evil. One of the
ways PJ messed up was (and he and Andy Serkis actually
bragged about this) making Smeagol's almost turning away from
thralldom to the Ring be always idisingenuous in their version of
ROTK. Still, Gollum with the Precious would have
been a formidable candidate.

[Rikae]

This might seem petty but I have to note
This Tuor fellow's lines are oddly short
at first I thought there might be something more;
but scanning them revealed uneven feet.
While posting in blank verse can be quite fun
such arbitrary breaks can disconcert
and interrupt the flow and reading ease.
;)

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Smaug-6 Carcharoth-2

Next: Glaurung vs. Morgoth

[Morthoron]

++Morgoth

I have to go for the creator over the created.

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Glaurung

[Ibrîniðilpathânezel]

++ Morgoth

Still gotta go for the guy, since Gollum wasn't considered bad enough to compete. :( Orcs and dragons were bred to be bad. For me, it's worse when someone has a choice to do otherwise, but still chooses bad.

[Nerwen]

This time I'll vote

++Glaurung

I still want to see a dragon vs dragon battle in the final!:smokin:

[Andsigil]

++Glaurung

I have more respect for him because his default tactic wasn't to cower and hide.

[skip spence]

Although I've championed Morgoth I still got to vote for

++Glaurung

who's the baddest dragon ever.

[Macalaure]

Ok, Morgoth destroyed the lamps and chased the Valar to Valinor, which is pretty cool, but after the Valar came back and gave him a proper beating, he either uses stealth or doesn't come out of his hole voluntarily at all.

Glaurung fought in several major battles of Beleriand and did all the dirty work that Morgoth should have done himself.

As a matter of fact, Glaurung also didn't get shot off the sky the one and only time he goes into action within the story. ;)

++Glaurung

[Groin Redbeard]

++Morgoth

Who needs Glaurung when you have Smaug?;)

[Nogrod]

++ Glaurung

A self-evident choice.

[Lalwendë]

There's something about Glaurung which is just much more bad to the bone than there is in Morgoth, probably because he nixes Turin and his lady friends. ;) But then Morgoth's deeds are darker and more sinister - hints of nastier things than we are used to in Tolkien...and of course it's Morgoth who creates (or at least enlists and thus empowers) all these weird and wonderful dark creatures like Dragons.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

++ Glaurung

Voice of Saruman, Eyes of Glaurung... pretty close.

[Rikae]

I was going to vote for Glaurung, but:

++ Morgoth

Because discordant music is actually pretty cool, and because he seems to be the underdog all of a sudden.

[Eönwë]

++Glaurung

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Morgoth-4 Glaurung-8

Grima's Revenge! ?

Time for the all-dragon final

Smaug the Magnificent vs. Glaurung the Deceiver

At least two days to vote. Which should be time aplenty for
Gandalf the "good" popularity person winner to
scuttle back to Aman in terror from either worm.

[Andsigil]

++Smaug

Something about Glaurung's personality just seems... Oh, I don't know... slimy? Seriously- setting up a Greek tragedy with Turin and his sister? What else does he do for sport- pick the wings off of flies?

Not to mention the fact that Glaurung, for all of his supposed cleverness, isn't very bright. He crafts this rather Bond-esque plan which leaves Turin alive so he can, umm, delight in Turin's suffering(?). Leaving Turin alive in turn leads, ultimately, to Glaurung's own death. If you think about it, Glaurung's plan belongs on failblog.org: "Epic Evil Plan Fail", or something.

Smaug would have just incinerated Turin and moved on to the next opponent.

[Lalwendë]

Drat, missed the vote...not that it would have made a jot of difference (a bit like a real UK election then ;)).

Is Smaug really more clever than Glaurung? After all, he manages to let slip to a teensy Hobbit where his vulnerable part is. Would Glaurung have done that?

I really, really do not like the idea of a wyrm on wyrm fight though. You cannot have enough dragons...:cool:

[Morthoron]

Hmmm....I withhold judgement at the present time in order to consider the choices further.

[Andsigil]

Is Smaug really more clever than Glaurung? After all, he manages to let slip to a teensy Hobbit where his vulnerable part is. Would Glaurung have done that?

I always had the impression that Smaug was unaware of the weak spot in his breast.

[Groin Redbeard]

Is Smaug really more clever than Glaurung? After all, he manages to let slip to a teensy Hobbit where his vulnerable part is. Would Glaurung have done that?
Smaug only had one weak spot, Glaurung nearly got killed by a bunch of dwarves and was stabbed in the belly. Plus, Glaurung with his entire horde could not defeat an army of dwarves, while Smaug single handedly destroyed an entire colony of dwarves. Evil Smaug:mad: (but in here I guess that's a good thing:p)!

++Smaug

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Smaug was fiery, tempestous, and flying, and has a fantastic voice. He makes red and green flames and is golden, which makes a lovely sight. He lives close to Esgaroth, which is a very lovely place. (Thus, he obviously has good taste.) Besides, he was killed by one of the coolest Men in Middle-Earth.

Glaurung is a stupid and lazy worm who cannot fly and gets stabbed by Túrin, who is not of the most adorable characters in Middle-Earth.

++Smaug

[Tuor in Gondolin]

On the other hand Galurung was killed by the greatest mannish,
and possibly also (I think Tolkien said so) elvish warrior in
Middle-earth history while Smaug was taken out by a
provincial Home Guardish fellow using a lucky arrow.

[Andsigil]

On the other hand Galurung was killed by the greatest mannish,
and possibly also (I think Tolkien said so) elvish warrior in
Middle-earth history while Smaug was taken out by a
provincial Home Guardish fellow using a lucky arrow.

Hey, Boromir showed us what arrows can do, too. He was still a great hero.

[Eönwë]

Smaug only had one weak spot, Glaurung nearly got killed by a bunch of dwarves and was stabbed in the belly. Plus, Glaurung with his entire horde could not defeat an army of dwarves, while Smaug single handedly destroyed an entire colony of dwarves.

The Lonely Mountain was one mountain inhabited by dwarves.

Gondolin was a city chosen especially for protection by Ulmo, and guarded by Manwe's own eagles. The place was basically designed to be a fort. And this isn't mentioning the fact that there were great warriors there who could kill balrogs.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

On the other hand Galurung was killed by the greatest mannish,
and possibly also (I think Tolkien said so) elvish warrior in
Middle-earth history while Smaug was taken out by a
provincial Home Guardish fellow using a lucky arrow.

Yes, but isn't that even cooler for Smaug? The coolest thing was that this Home Guardish fellow was a King.

[Lalwendë]

I always had the impression that Smaug was unaware of the weak spot in his breast.

That's a weakness in itself, to be unaware of a weak spot, or in the case of Smaug, to be so arrogantly self-assured that one would assume no weak spots exist.

Though in terms of 'badness', that kind of arrogance, despite being a failing, does add a certain cachet ;)

[the phantom]

This is a tough one.

Smaug is one of my favorite characters. His chatter with Bilbo is priceless.

But Glaurung did more damage I believe (played a roll in a couple big battles and overthrew Nargothrond). And he was also killed in a cooler way, by a much greater slayer.

And the weapons used- you have a lucky arrow versus the sword destined to slay Morgoth himself.

*squirms*

++Glaurung

But really I'd be happy with either one winning.

[Thinlómien]

++Smaug

[Morthoron]

++Glaurung

I'll go old school on this one. Glaurung's adversaries were far tougher than Smaug's. Obviously the 1st Age Dwarves did not run, while the 3rd Age Dwarves shrieked and scattered like wee li'l girls. ;)

[Tuor in Gondolin]

+ + Glaurung

He seems to be more inspiration from the
Professor's reading of Sigurd slaying
Fafnir. (although Smaug did
have a great dragon hoard).


Voting so far
Smaug-4
Glaurung-3

[Rikae]

Evil have been all thy ways, son of Húrin. Thankless fosterling, outlaw, slayer of thy friend, thief of love, usurper of Nargothrond, captain foolhardy, and deserter of thy kin. As thralls thy mother and thy sister live in Dor-lómin, in misery and want. Thou art arrayed as a prince, but they go in rags; and for thee they yearn, but thou carest not for that. Glad may thy father be to learn that he hath such a son; as learn he shall.

Something about a big bad dragon using a "guilt trip" against his foe amuses me - and so:

++Glaurung

Plus:Hail, Nienor, daughter of Húrin. We meet again ere the end. I give thee joy that thou hast found thy brother at last. And now thou shalt know him: a stabber in the dark, treacherous to foes, faithless to friends, and a curse unto his kin, Túrin son of Húrin! But the worst of all his deeds thou shalt feel in thyself.

That is just so evil.

[Lalwendë]

Rikae's case is a good one here - those really are evil words!!!!:eek:

[Macalaure]

I voted for him before and I'm voting for him now. :)

++Glaurung

[skip spence]

Smaug is a badass, but Glaurung is his daddy nonetheless.

++Glaurung

[Groin Redbeard]

The Lonely Mountain was one mountain inhabited by dwarves.Yes, the greatest of the Dwarven holds, after Khazad-dum fell into darkness. Also Smaug drove them out single handedly, I think that makes him greater. How should I put it... more independent than Glaurung.:)

I'll go old school on this one. Glaurung's adversaries were far tougher than Smaug's. Obviously the 1st Age Dwarves did not run, while the 3rd Age Dwarves shrieked and scattered like wee li'l girls.Or was Glaurung obviously weaker than Smaug?:p Glaurung is worm that can only wriggle around and spout fire against his foes. Smaug can actually fly! Glaurung is only half a dragon.

[Eönwë]

Or was Glaurung obviously weaker than Smaug?:p Glaurung is worm that can only wriggle around and spout fire against his foes. Smaug can actually fly! Glaurung is only half a dragon.

And yet caused much more damage. Doesn't that make him even more amazing?

And his "playing" with the children of Hurin makes him much more evil. Smaug just kills (yes, there was that bit where he was thinking of picking of the Lake men if I recall correctly, but he failed). Glaurung makes people suffer for his own pleasure. Doesn't that make him more evil?

And he has hypnotic powers.

++Glaurung

[Andsigil]

And his "playing" with the children of Hurin makes him much more evil. Smaug just kills (yes, there was that bit where he was thinking of picking of the Lake men if I recall correctly, but he failed). Glaurung makes people suffer for his own pleasure. Doesn't that make him more evil?

Perhaps, but it doesn't make him very smart. And smart counts.

Allow me to again point out that Glaurung's making people suffer for his own pleasure was his own undoing. His involuted, Ernst Stavro Bloefeld (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Stavro_Blofeld) scheme left alive the man who killed him.

So he's not as smart as he thinks he is. ;)

[Nogrod]

Go Glaurung go!

Glaurung is the more mythical and awesome as a mere sentiment or feeling the reader has. The name of Glaurung * rings deep into the layers of the unconscious parts of many languages inciting something like a premordial fear and awe; it calls forwards an ur-creature you will tremble in front of, whereas Smaug sounds more like a cheap rendering of some slimy or just bare un-nice syllables in English.

*remember to spell Glaurung correctly: like keeping the vowels separate: 'a' as wide as 'u' in "but" and 'u' as narrow as 'u' in "put". :)

++ Glaurung

[Lalwendë]

Ah well, laying all clever arguments aside, they are still dragons and as such I can't make a logical choice. Therefore I'm going with the one who has lived longest in my imagination.

++Smaug

Unlike Nogrod, I prefer his name, too. Smaug, it reminds me of smog...

[Durelin]

++Smaug

I have read The Hobbit so many times. I have only read LotR once all the way through and have only read bits and pieces of The Sil and such...

I love Smaug. He's iconic. A good ol' fashioned dragon who lived a life of luxury sleeping on a hoard of treasure, and who even enjoyed a good conversation nearly as much as a good meal.

Edit: I also prefer Smaug's name. It's more suited. In hearing Glaurung's name in the past I used to think he was some other balrog with a name or something, for some reason assuming that from the name. Not sure why, but...I don't know, it's definitely not a dragon/wyrm/worm name to me.

"Smog" or pronouncing the "au" in a German-y way, either way it's cool. The monosyllabic name is more ominous.

[Nogrod]

Unlike Nogrod, I prefer his name, too. Smaug, it reminds me of smog...Exactly my point! :D

Smaug is not a primordial, mythical, your deepest unconsciousness-tingling terrifying evil you can't quite describe in any way, but more like "smog" or any other everyday thing that can be unsettling or even frightening but is not quite the same thing.

In this case the fact that we know so much about Smaug turns against it as it's clear Smaug can be grasped at some level as to being a petty and greedy monster whereas Glaurung is just some dark thing you can't quite get to grips with and whose name makes you shiver. :eek:

[Lalwendë]

Exactly my point! :D

Smaug is not a primordial, mythical, your deepest unconsciousness-tingling terrifying evil you can't quite describe in any way, but more like "smog" or any other everyday thing that can be unsettling or even frightening but is not quite the same thing.

In this case the fact that we know so much about Smaug turns against it as it's clear Smaug can be grasped at some level as to being a petty and greedy monster whereas Glaurung is just some dark thing you can't quite get to grips with and whose name makes you shiver. :eek:

Ah but smog kills (according to the book Austerity Britain which I was reading recently) - you might think it's just a dark bit of fog, but it's a silent, deadly killer. Smog isn't an everyday thing but a dark and sinister thing that can have you fooled! Tricksy...

And Smaug also sounds better. It's like the expletive of an angry Scot - "Ach! Smaug!"

And reason three - it is also uncannily similar to smug. Which also describes the timorous beastie perfectly.




Facetious reason four - it makes me laugh too as it sounds like something you can buy in IKEA :D

[Tuor in Gondolin]

To date, the Worm of Greed has overcome an early
lead by Smaug the Golden:

Smaug-6
Glaurung-8

[Durelin]

Facetious reason four - it makes me laugh too as it sounds like something you can buy in IKEA

Lol! No, it'd have to be Smaüg or Smäug then. :p Seems like a good name for a sofa.

And I mean...Glaurung and Gandalf?! Really?!

[Lalwendë]

Lol! No, it'd have to be Smaüg or Smäug then. :p

And I mean...Glaurung and Gandalf?! Really?!

Smaüg Side Table, £19.99. Please collect from Aisle 37, Row B, Shelf 17.

Then you get to the warehouse and there are none left so you have to settle for an Ancalagon coffe table instead... :(

[Nerwen]

Let's see...

1. They both have cool names.
2. They both have memorable (and evil) personalities.
3. They're both dragons.:cool::smokin::D

It's almost a coin toss... but I believe I'll vote

++Glaurung.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Come on! Let's rally for Smaug! Let's give it a great finish! He's cooler! He can fly! He spits red and green flames! He talks to Hobbits!

Smaug! Smaug!

[Groin Redbeard]

Come on! Let's rally for Smaug! Let's give it a great finish! He's cooler! He can fly! He spits red and green flames! He talks to Hobbits!
Thank you, Legate! Glaurung's a worm (isn't that a bit disgusting when you think about it) Smaug is a full blooded dragon.

And yet caused much more damage. Doesn't that make him even more amazing?In a way. He was obviously bigger than any other dragon; ergo, the key to his success. I don't find it attractive how he's always accompanied by a great army when he goes fighting (except for those two times when he got seriously wounded and killed;)), dragons should be more independent.

And his "playing" with the children of Hurin makes him much more evil. Smaug just kills (yes, there was that bit where he was thinking of picking of the Lake men if I recall correctly, but he failed). Glaurung makes people suffer for his own pleasure. Doesn't that make him more evil? Not really, he got killed by toying with his food. I like people, or dragons in this case, who are more straight forward with their work.:)

[Tuor in Gondolin]

Final results:

Smaug-6 Glaurung-8

Glaurung the Golden wins a hard fought contest
over Smaug the Magnificent .

Glaurung professed a lack of concern over ever
encountering a winner of other Popularity Cups,
saying "I've taunted Turin, I've fought with Turin,
and I can tell you, the Gray Pilgrim is no Turin ."

Btw, if anyone at some future date starts another Popularity
Contest, one interesting one would be women of Middle-earth/
Aman. There are at least 20-24 easily selected fom Middle-earth,
and more if maia and vala are included. Of course, one debatable
classification would be Melian. Would she be included
if maia in general were not?

[Nogrod]

The ur-worm wins!

Which is only decent.

:D

Hurray!

[Thinlómien]

Btw, if anyone at some future date starts another Popularity
Contest, one interesting one would be women of Middle-earth/
Aman. There are at least 20-24 easily selected fom Middle-earth,
and more if maia and vala are included. Of course, one debatable
classification would be Melian. Would she be included
if maia in general were not?Oh, I have actually been thinking about something similar... before the Popularity Cups there was a rather similar game called "Middle-Earth Survivor" and I always intended to revive the tradition to make a female survivor game but I never managed to do that... But I won't be around to arrange any contests now anyway, so feel free to do that you others. :)

Thanks for the game, Tuor! :)

[Andsigil]

I don't have time to run one of these, but how about a Middle Earth Weapons Cup?

Ringil vs Narsil vs Gurthang vs Aiglos vs Grond, etc, etc...

[Nogrod]

I could call for this "ME feminine popularity cup" with Lommy. But we can only open it at the beginning of April as she will be away before that.

So unless someone of you has a better idea we'll take on with that in about two weeks.

I don't know what it tells about me as a male but I find females a lot more interesting than weapons... :rolleyes:

But feel free to take on that or any other idea before that.