Admin Thread for WWLXX: At the Prison of Ice

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

At the beginning I would like to point out that I have never been a devout supporter of these "green" movements which have become so popular especially in the last few decades. Indeed I have belonged to what you could perhaps call a "moderate" group of people, and certainly I haven't been one of those who would initiate any large-scale action on my own. But nowadays I feel obliged to speak out and press on the governments and companies to do whatever is in their power to prevent global warming. I am also afraid that it might be already too late.

The reason for my abrupt change of mind requires longer elaboration, however I will try to present it here in full to prove the necessity of making decisive steps now. Despite all contrary evidence presented by some researchers, it is a fact that the process of global climate change of our planet is going on and I am afraid of where it may lead us. The warming of the seas and the melting of polar ice caps is but first of the grievances humanity will have to face. I would like to turn even to those who deny the impact of human factor on global warming, difference of opinions aside, if there is even a slight chance that human activity can influence the process, it is necessary to take measurements to prevent the melting of the polar ice caps before it is too late.

The events I wish to report herein – events most disturbing in their nature and their possible implications – concern the Arctic expedition I have undergone along with several others during the last polar season. These facts have been this far unknown to wide public and despite my reluctance to share them, not least out of fear that especially some of them may be overlooked or attributed to charlatanry, I have decided to make a true account of everything.

***

Welcome to the admin thread for Tol-in-Gaurhoth LXX: At the Prison of Ice, which is another of the traditional series of Werewolf games which probably all of you are familiar with – although this game is open also to those who haven't been playing the game yet, if such ones appeared here. This game should be suitable also for complete beginners, as its rules will be relatively simple, basic, and without any major changes as to what is "common", except for two or three minor things, which will be mentioned below. But I hope this game will be suitable for you whether you are looking for an easy, not too stressing game with known roles or whether you wish to have something slightly untraditional there. It should be able to provide both, not wandering into completely uncharted regions of wild games with dozens of rules, but at the same time not falling into the completely "boring" routine.

The main purpose of this game, of course, is Werewolf hunting (or deceiving the innocents, if you are a Werewolf). And this is what I am aiming for. Unlike my previous games (WWXXXV: Werewolves Among the Wolf-Men (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=13983) and WWXLV: The Fellowship of Saruman (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=14711)), where roleplaying was the major factor, in this game (maybe to somebody's disappointment) there will be none and it will be just a simple game like all the others. This is partially because I doubt I could come up again with something as good as the Fellowship of Saruman was (that does not mean I would give up on roleplaying altogether, though). But my hope is that for those who wish to experience some aesthetic aspect in the game apart from the Werewolfing itself the theme will provide something like that too.

As for the game's theme, as you can see here, it concerns a rather unfortunate fate of one polar expedition. I am not going to speak on length about the theme itself here, you will soon read more on the game thread itself and also in the upcoming narrations during the game. Sufficient to say, you should not be, and I hope you will not be disappointed. As players, you can pick in-story roles, if you wish, to associate yourselves with the members of the expedition.

The summary of the rules follows below.

PLAYERS

Inziladun - meteorologist
Mnemosyne - field medic
Boromir88 - look it up below, I am too lazy to copypaste :p
Eomer of the Rohirrim - sea pilot
Loslote - rich funder's spoiled daughter
Morsul - federal grants lawyer
Brinn - polar bear biologist
Pitchwife - marine biologist
Nienna - navigator
Nogrod - old palaeoecologist who is perhaps archaic himself but still not archaic enough not to remember his hyper-long title, sorry Boro
Macalaure - palaeomathematician
sally - the p.w.r.c.u.w.t.p.f.t.w.t.b.w.s-d.c.b.h.p.a.n.i.a.g.p.m.a.v.b.b.n.o.a.n.a.h.u.a.s. p.m.k.e.
Thinlómien - whale expert
Nerwen - mechanic
Roa - survival guide
Bes - room/store manager
Shasta - sled dog handler
wilwa
Greenie - senior assitant to Lommy *innocent look*
tromkehra - cook/bartender

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

The game will start with Night 1 on November 28th, 9:00 PM GMT.

ROLES

Like I said, this game will be relatively classic. The roles are as follows:

# ordinary innocents – their objective is to get rid of all the Werewolves.

4 Werewolves – their objective is to survive up to the point when there are as many Werewolves as innocents. They can PM with each other every Night and each Night they choose one person to kill.

1 Ranger – she stands with the innocents, but each Night, she can choose one person to protect. She can also choose to protect herself. The protected person, if targeted by the Wolves at Night, won't be killed and there will be no kill that Night. Ranger cannot protect the same person twice in a row. The Ranger and Hunter know each other's identities and can PM each other during the Night.

1 Hunter – she stands with the innocents, and at any point of the game, she can choose people whom she is going to watch and take with her in case she dies. That effectively means that the Hunter will send me a list of three or less names (maximally up to the number of living Werewolves in game), and if she is killed during the Night and there is a Werewolf on the list, the Werewolf who is first on the list will die alongside her; otherwise, nothing happens. If the Hunter is lynched and there is a Werewolf on the list, the Werewolf who is the first on the list will die alongside her; otherwise, the first person who is on the list will die alongside her. The Hunter can change her list at any point, however, in case of her death, I am of course taking into account only the list I had in my disposition before the deadline of the current Day/Night (i.e. for example if the Hunter is lynched, then Night comes, and she sends me another list after she died, I am not going to take it into account). The Ranger and Hunter know each other's identities and can PM each other during the Night.

1 secret role – will not be revealed on the admin thread and only the chosen player will know about it.

VOTING

Each person has one vote each Day. The votes, once cast, cannot be changed by any means. The vote must contain the clear name of the player voted for with "++" before it, and be boldened, like this:

++Legate of Amon Lanc

At the end of each Day, the person who gets the most votes is lynched. In case of a tie, the person who reached the most votes as the first is lynched. Votes cast after the deadline (in posts with the timestamp "##:00" and later) will not be taken into account.

Person who does not cast any vote for two days in a row will be modfired.

The deadline for voting will be (unless I yet decide otherwise) 9:00 PM GMT. (Calculated from what should be 11:00 for us Finns. Please correct me somebody if I have miscalculated ;) ) Game will start with a Night phase. As in every game, there will be Night and Day phases, each always taking 24 hours of real time.

SPECIAL RULES

Apart from the secret role, there will be two different special events taking place during the game. They will be secret in the beginning and will be all revealed in due time. You don't need to worry about them until they happen (which will be announced on the game thread along with the narration, also there will be a copy and a more elaborate explanation of them rule-wise posted on the admin thread at the same time). No player (including the secret role) is going to know about these two events until they are announced publicly to everybody.

Neither of the special things in this game will have any totally ground-breaking effect (i.e. nothing that will turn the game totally upside-down).

MISCELLANEOUS RULES/INFORMATION

Posting on admin thread during the game is allowed only for the purposes of announcing absence, asking about clarification on the game rules (though I hope there will be no need for it), or other urgent matters. People who have been lynched or killed cannot post on the game thread or the admin thread until the game ends.

Any communication about the game between the players, living or dead, outside the game thread (or Night-discussions, if the role allows it) is forbidden.

PMs, either sent by the mod or by your friends (Werewolves, Ranger, Hunter...), cannot be quoted on the game thread. No out-of-game posts may be quoted on the game thread.

Please try to avoid any meta-game reasoning in your posting in the game as far as possible. It does not belong to Werewolf.

Likewise, narrations are not to be used as source of reasoning for the game. The narration's function is purely aesthetic and they are made to reflect the game's happenings, however, everything that is important in the narration is always repeated in the rules or Day/Night summary. If something is not mentioned in the rules, then it has no in-game impact whatsoever. (If you are not sure what the heck does this mean, you can also see below in the note at the end of this post.)

Likewise, if something is announced in the rules, but not mentioned in the narration, it still holds.

Excessive spam-posting on the thread (posts lacking any in-game content) will be met by warning followed by a modfire. Try to make the thread readable for others with actual information related to the game.

The pronouns used on the admin thread to describe some role have nothing to do with the person's actual gender.

IN-STORY ROLES

You may pick a role you will have in the expedition, this is merely for narrational purposes. You can pick out of the professions listed here, or you can come up with an idea of your own fitting along the similar lines (anything that would make sense on such a kind of expedition). The same profession can be taken by several people, as there can be several experts from the same field in the expedition. The initial occupations could be as follows: meteorologist, hydrometeorologist, geologist, geophysicist, palaeoecologist, marine biologist, biologist, palaeoclimatology expert, engineer, mechanic, medic, sea pilot, navigator.

A NOTE ABOUT THE NARRATIONS

This is just a note of clarification about the role of narrations in this game to avoid misunderstandings. The main purpose of the narrations is aesthetic. That means, providing some background for the Werewolf hunt itself, which otherwise operates on well-known schemes. However, I won't be doing what most of the narration-writers do, that is, to try to adjust the narrations nail-and-tooth to the in-game happenings (like making it so that the innocents discover exactly three sets of wolf footprints on the very first Day, if possible next to a note addressed to the innocents and signed in blood by Fang, Grip and Wolf, predicting the early destruction of the village). Instead of making some hybrid (and thus risking that I ruin the impression of the story and at the same time fail in reflecting the game to the point that if somebody was following the narration by heart, he or she would "find" information which will completely misguide him or her in the game), I have decided to draw a strict line between the narrations and the game. In most of the games people are doing it too, but I feel it important to point out this time. That means: Your primary guide are the rules. If the narrations seem to you to imply something which is not stated in the rules, then it is not true. There are no in-game hints in the narrations whatsoever, unless it is specifically stated later in the Day/Night summary (and I WILL enclose a summary of everything happening in every narration, don't worry). And vice versa. The story has its own perspective, e.g. if it does not say how many Werewolves are around, but the rules do, of course you know how many people you are looking for, even if the characters in the story don't. The story's purpose is illustrational, and it draws from the game, but not vice versa. Since this is not roleplaying game, everybody of course says stuff on the thread which his or her character would not really say in the story. Therefore, you should not bother yourself with "but possibly my character does not know if we have a Ranger, should I talk about it on the thread?" and just talk about it. (I am stating the obvious here, but I am saying it just as to avoid confusion.)

***

[Inziladun]

I'm in as a meteorologist.

[Mnemosyne]

Field medic for me, please.

Also, considering that back in the early '90's all these CD labels told me that we only have ten years left to save the planet, I figure that we're already screwed. ;)

Please don't make it too preachy, Legate. The 'Downs doesn't allow politics on here for good reason.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Please don't make it too preachy, Legate. The 'Downs doesn't allow politics on here for good reason.

No politics in here, Mnemo. Narrational introduction, that's all. After all, the tale reported in here is "completely fictitious and any resemblance to people or events reported therein is purely coincidental"... Or so it says...

Anyway, welcome both! :)

[Boromir88]

Put me down with a question mark and I would officially like to strive for the longest title, so how about Research Assistant to the Professor of Glaciology at Snowslide University? :p

[Nienna]

Hey Legate... do you know when you are thinking of starting? Its just that American Thanksgiving is coming up so there might be like 4 entire days where I won't be around... so I don't really want to commit myself if I won't be able to participate. I super badly want to play though.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well, I was thinking to start simply as soon as I have enough players... which, with bad luck, could go just with the time when you won't be around... of course, if it was a big problem, I can start after that. And also, of course, I cannot predict how fast the sign-ups are going to go. I think we may as well wait and see for now.

If anybody else will have a similar problem with participation, please say so.

Also in the worst case (if there were really many people with such a problem) I could make a "gap" there for a few days (I think it's been done before during some holidays), i.e. that the game would be put on standby for a while.

[Mnemosyne]

I'd prefer not having to play over American Thanksgiving, but I should be able to manage.

And thanks, Legate. I figured it wasn't an issue but I wanted to bring it up anyway. I trust your narrations will be very, very cool... :smokin:

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

So is this a 7th age game? Doesn't seem very Middle-earthy. Regardless, I would like to play as... the pilot!

[Hakon]

Put me down with a question mark.

[Loslote]

I really want to play (all the secrecy has made me very intrigued) but that Thanksgiving thing is a problem. If that can be taken care of, then I'd definitely be in. Could I be the Rich Funder's Spoiled Daughter? :p

[Brinniel]

I want to play so long as the game doesn't start until after Thanksgiving. I'll be away in Florida from Nov. 25-29 with most likely no internet access. But if that's not a problem, then put me down as a polar bear biologist...because polar bears are awesome.

[Morsul the Dark]

I'm in... Federal Grant Lawyer, Making sure the Government's money is well spent.

[Boromir88]

Thanksgiving will be an issue for me too, which was the reason for the question mark. I'm going to Michigan on Tuesday and will be back Sunday, with no internet access. If you want to get started before don't feel obligated to wait...not that you would ever feel obligated. :p :D

[Morsul the Dark]

I guess I'm the only one who alienates his family? lol thanksgiving is really nothing special for me though I'd prefer not to play that day as well...

[Pitchwife]

*kicks out the jams*
Sign me up! I've got some premonitions as to what we're going to find in the ice that are just too deliciously dreadful...
I'll be the marine biologist - for academic credentials look here (http://www.metrolyrics.com/lonesome-cowboy-nando-lyrics-frank-zappa.html).

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I want to play so long as the game doesn't start until after Thanksgiving. I'll be away in Florida from Nov. 25-29 with most likely no internet access. But if that's not a problem, then put me down as a polar bear biologist...because polar bears are awesome.
Well, sure, now it really looks that it makes no sense to start before Thanksgiving. But at least that should be enough time to get enough people in. So I guess the only question would be when exactly to start, possibly on the 29th then? Or if people thought it too late, we could start Night 1 already on the 28th or something (as it's not that big deal after all, even for the Wolves, unless you people think otherwise).

*kicks out the jams*
Sign me up! I've got some premonitions as to what we're going to find in the ice that are just too deliciously dreadful...
I'll be the marine biologist - for academic credentials look here (http://www.metrolyrics.com/lonesome-cowboy-nando-lyrics-frank-zappa.html).
Ha! Well, good to have you on board as well...
Although you may still be surprised (or maybe not. It depends :) ).

[Nienna]

Since we are starting after Thanksgiving you can count me in! I'll be the navigator.

[Nogrod]

Even if Thanksgiving is not a popular holiday here in Finland I must join the choir saying that due to the posponed starting date I'm also able to take part. I'm just drowning under loads of work right now but it should ease up a bit the next week...

I could be an old paleo-ecologist with his own theory of the climate change based on his own studies spreading over five decades.
*copy paste that! :D*


PS. I think Night1 could be started already on 28th or something (the earlier date) as N1 discussions between the wolves are not that central and rarely produce any real dashing schemes that would have to be adopted already on D1.

[Macalaure]

*rises from dead*

I think I'll throw in a game again after a while. Sign me up as palaeomathematician, if that's admissible. ;)

[satansaloser2005]

*is shocked to see Mac*

*hugs him*

Oh, and I am of course in. DL's when I'm at work so expect shorter posts but higher quantity. And yay for Mnemo too! :)

(P.S. I'll think of a role later, but I need to get back to work. Heh, right.)

[Thinlómien]

Another marine biologist at your service, sir. And since I'm afraid I can't be the penguin expert (eh? ;)), may I be the whale expert? I like them a lot too.

So you may put me down as a marine biologist, a whale expert, or even Pitchie's assistant (some sort of junior marine biologist?) who's just specialised in whales. Whatever sounds the best.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

*rises from dead*

I think I'll throw in a game again after a while. Sign me up as palaeomathematician, if that's admissible.

Okay, what exactly does that mean? ;) Never mind.

Another marine biologist at your service, sir. And since I'm afraid I can't be the penguin expert (eh? ;)), may I be the whale expert? I like them a lot too.

So you may put me down as a marine biologist, a whale expert, or even Pitchie's assistant (some sort of junior marine biologist?) who's just specialised in whales. Whatever sounds the best.

Well, you can be both whale AND penguin expert - you just won't be exercising one of the parts of your expertise here, that's all :)

[Pitchwife]

I think this expedition could do very well with two full-fledged marine biologists, Lommy - after all, the arctic is just an ice-covered sea, isn't it? As a matter of fact, my special field of research is cnidaria and mollusca - you know, jellyfish, squids and everything soft and wobbly (plus a minor interest in echinodermata, such as starfish); I'll gladly leave whales, dolphins and other sea-borne mammals to you. (By the way, remind me to tell you that joke about the dolphin, the squid and the shark one of these days, if you haven't heard it yet and the exigency of our expedition leaves us time for such matters.)
Pleased to have you on board, anyway!

(Which reminds me -
Although you may still be surprised (or maybe not. It depends).
Well, I can see all kinds of horrible possibilities and even more horrible combinations thereof, but this place being what it is, we might benefit from having a polar bear expert among our crew...)

[Nogrod]

Paleo-mathematician?

Waver Pythagoras, Plato, Euclid, Descartes, Leibnitz, Gödel... well all of you! Here's paleo-mathematics! L. Ron Hubbard might have loved it?

Heh, I think our characters should get very well together characterwise Mac - as impossible as it looks looking at our history of ww together... :rolleyes:

[Boromir88]

Starting Night 1 on Saturday will work, for I find out we are actually returning Saturday. Instead of rushing back Sunday, we have that day for resting and recooperating from full stomachs of turkey, stuffing, mashed potatoes and all kinds of deliciousness. :D :p

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, that sounds pretty good. I'd hope to recruit a few more people (or even more than few) meanwhile, but I can set the start date for the 28th, 9 PM GMT - and if somebody is not okay with that, there is plenty time to raise objections (and if possible, give better suggestions) on this thread.

[Nerwen]

Count me in. I'll be the mechanic who fixes all the equipment when you scientist-types break it.

[satansaloser2005]

Actually, put me down with a question mark. I've been having internet trouble. I'll let you know though, and connection permitting I'm still up for playing. :)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Actually, put me down with a question mark. I've been having internet trouble. I'll let you know though, and connection permitting I'm still up for playing. :)

All right. Well, hope it will be solved. You've got plenty time to fix it... :)

[Loslote]

Count me in. I'll be the mechanic who fixes all the equipment when you scientist-types break it.

Oh, you don't need to worry about them. I've got the market for breaking important techy-things cornered. ;)

[Eönwë]

I really want to play this one, but I'm not sure if I have the time. Put me down with a question mark.

[satansaloser2005]

I'm in for sure. Will give you a profession when I think of one. :)

[Roa_Aoife]

I'm in. Put me down as the survival guide.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'm in. Put me down as the survival guide.

I am happy to have you in as well! And we needed one of these, too :)

[Morsul the Dark]

I am happy to have you in as well! And we needed one of these, too :)

Excuse me but can we really afford that I mean we don't plan on just throwing money at you;) Already in Character... on a related note I need a life:rolleyes:

[Morsul the Dark]

I know Double Posting Legate the First post Is AWESOME!

[Nogrod]

Legate the First post Is AWESOME!Well, yes!!!

Cool indeed, in both senses of the word... :cool:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh, people, thank you both. :) Really, as I was actually worried about the reception. Now you both have made me happy :)

[Boromir88]

Well, yes!!!

Cool indeed, in both senses of the word... :cool:

So many punny people on this forum. :rolleyes::D

[Loslote]

Ooh, brutal trip! Out past Barrow in the winter - might as well have been the inspiration for Helcaraxe. Do you know how high the suicide rate is for people who live there? Can't wait to go! :p

[Bes]

Hey folks. I'm new here, just posted in the new member area actually. I heard about this game from Roa, and I wanted to give it a try. The way she describes it, it sounds much more cerebral than pretty much any other game I've ever played in, and that appeals to me.

If you're still accepting new players, I'd like the character role of a stock room/store manager: The guy who keeps track of what the expedition site does and does not have, sends orders for more stuff back to wherever we came from. Food, spare clothes, tools, light bulbs, toilet paper, booze, the little necessities of life.

What do you say? Have room for one more?

[Pitchwife]

Hi Bes, I don't think you'll be disappointed - it's spelt Werewolf, but pronounced /mind game/. And if you're in any way like Roa, you'll probably make yourself a name like thunder.
Can't speak for Legate, but I'd guess there's a few bunks left on our icebreaker - the more the merrier; and as a lot of us have chosen rather high-flying academic roles, we're in dire need of somebody catering to our practical needs. So welcome aboard!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Indeed, Bes, surely welcome on board (and welcome also to the 'Downs! If you have any questions about the game rules or such, just ask here. (Otherwise, I hope the length of the rules section here does not scare you, but I think there should be everything you need to know. Anyway, if it was unclear, better ask! Or you can always ask Roa or something for sure...)

[Roa_Aoife]

Yay, Bes! Welcome aboard!

[Nogrod]

New players! Great! :)

Looking forwards to meeting you in the game Bes!

Have fun!

[satansaloser2005]

Hey folks. I'm new here, just posted in the new member area actually. I heard about this game from Roa, and I wanted to give it a try. The way she describes it, it sounds much more cerebral than pretty much any other game I've ever played in, and that appeals to me.

If you're still accepting new players, I'd like the character role of a stock room/store manager: The guy who keeps track of what the expedition site does and does not have, sends orders for more stuff back to wherever we came from. Food, spare clothes, tools, light bulbs, toilet paper, booze, the little necessities of life.

What do you say? Have room for one more?


Frest meat....:smokin:

And speaking of which, I'll be the *takes a deep breath* person who really came up with the plans for the whole thing but was semi-double crossed by her partner and now is a glorified pack mule and very bitter because no one appreciates nor acknowledges her input although she pretty much knows everything.

Did I beat Boro and Nog? :Merisu:

[Nerwen]

Oh dear. :eek:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

And speaking of which, I'll be the *takes a deep breath* person who really came up with the plans for the whole thing but was semi-double crossed by her partner and now is a glorified pack mule and very bitter because no one appreciates nor acknowledges her input although she pretty much knows everything.

Did I beat Boro and Nog? :Merisu:

Possibly...

We are still open if anybody wants to join, and the plan (if you haven't noticed it yet) is to start on 28th at 9 PM GMT with Night 1.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

*raises hand* Room for one more?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Surely there is!

That would make eighteen of us (if Hakon is indeed playing. Any news about that?). I am starting to think to put in a fourth Wolf for balance, more so if anybody else decides to join...

[wilwarin538]

Actually, since school is practically done for me I'd like to sign up with a question mark if there's still room. I'll know by tomorrow whether I will definitely have time or not, but I think I shall. :)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Actually, since school is practically done for me I'd like to sign up with a question mark if there's still room. I'll know by tomorrow whether I will definitely have time or not, but I think I shall. :)

Wonderful! Welcome on board, then (if you indeed will choose to participate :) ).

That makes me really think about introducing a fourth Wolf. If we by any chance hit 20, I am going to put him there in any case.

[A Little Green]

Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy this looks so interesting, I'd love to play if there is still room, only that I won't be around until the evening of 29th so I'd miss Night 1 at least...

[satansaloser2005]

*howls* Is it time to play yet? If we start now the wolves can snack on turkey(s) while they wait out the Night. ;)

Also, yay for Greenie, Wilwa, and Shasta~!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

It isn't that big problem to miss Night 1, as even the people who actually do something on Night 1 rarely use it for anything of great importance. So, in other words, welcome to our BIG expedition! :)

But okay! That means if wilwa confirms her participation, we are indeed going to have quite many people so we are going to have four Wolves. I am going to edit the rules in that sense tomorrow if it indeed turns out that way.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

*howls* Is it time to play yet? If we start now the wolves can snack on turkey(s) while they wait out the Night. ;)

You mean that this way they could leave out some Night kills since they'll be full? ;) Well, I think you wouldn't be happy with your suggestion if you found yourself being a Wolf... :)

Speaking of that, I will be sending roles on the 28th some time (probably an hour or so) before DL. After that, the sign-ups (and sign-outs, if anything like that occured) will be officially closed (although I don't think I would get, or even want to get, much more players than we have now, unless we make it an incredibly big game...).

[A Little Green]

Great! I'll be a senior assistant to every important scientist aboard. :p

[Thinlómien]

Aww Legate. :D

I think I could actually just be the whale expert. No penguins this time after all. (I had a dream that I decided this way, so I had better follow it, I guess. :eek: :D)

Our player list looks cool.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I imagine this kind of expedition, while having been flown there by plane, will be in need of dogsleds to make any kind of headway along the ground, so could I be the sled-dog handler?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I imagine this kind of expedition, while having been flown there by plane, will be in need of dogsleds to make any kind of headway along the ground, so could I be the sled-dog handler?

E-ee. No plane. It's going to be only a ship. (see the narrations) Otherwise not sure if dogs would work here, being stationed on board for long anyway.

[Pitchwife]

Well, if anything, it would be much easier to transport dogs on a ship than on a plane! And what would a polar expedition be without sleds and sled-dogs? Think of Scott and Amundsen* (OK, that was the other pole, but still...)!
If dogs interfere with your ideas for the narrations, well, I understand. It would be nice to have some, though.

*(I almost wrote Starkweather and Moore, but I'm not sure what means of transport they used...)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I know, but I was only thinking from the point of view of long-term keeping the dogs on board. Otherwise I don't mind, narration-wise or anything.

[Hakon]

I really hate to say this since I would love to play in this game but I cannot. I said put me down with a question mark but sadly I have to withdraw from the game. Good luck to all participants.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

A pity, Hakon. But well, perhaps some other time.

Okay, so let's see, if we have wilwa confirming her participation, I am going to make it four wolves.

[tromkehra]

Hey, I don't know if it's too late to apply for the game I'd certainly like to join. I just had a little trouble with my computer earlier, it's better now :).

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Hey, I don't know if it's too late to apply for the game I'd certainly like to join. I just had a little trouble with my computer earlier, it's better now :).

Okay, well, you got lucky in a way as I have already decided the roles, but I haven't posted them yet. :) So why not - a last minute sign-up, that means however that I need to rearrange the roles yet once again with you included. But more players is always better, and this way we get a nice number. So, I hope there is no problem if we start the game a bit later in that sense, I will post the opening narration, but I will send the roles only during the course of the following hour (or two hours in the worst case, depends on how long it takes).

Thus everyone will get their roles during the following hour (or two). I guess that doesn't make such a big deal on Night 1. (If I got vehement protests via PMs from the Werewolves or Ranger, Hunter whatever, I could rearrange it in some way, but I guess there is no problem if Night 1 is one or two hours shorter.)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay, everybody should have their roles now (if somebody of you didn't get a PM from me, then PM me and I will send you your role. But I think, and hope, that I didn't miss anybody).

So, whoever of you has some Nightly activities, you can do them now. Sorry for the slight delay with the start of the Night, but now we have a nice round number of players :) And I think we also have an interesting game in front of us (or I would at least hope so). Enjoy!

wilwa and tromkehra, if you wish to think of some in-narration roles for yourselves, you can write that to me or here on this thread. That's just so that you don't feel like you've been robbed of the opportunity to pick one. :)

We are going to start Day 1 in some 22 and half hours from now, if I am counting correctly... simply put, normally, 9PM GMT.

And now I am off to edit the rules a bit - that is, change the number "three" to "four". We have four Werewolves!!!

[tromkehra]

I can be the cook/bar tender please :D? Hurray chef? :3

[Inziladun]

I can be the cook/bar tender please :D? Hurray chef? :3

Remember to use Invisible Mode.

User CP+ Edit Options+Check 'Use Invisible Mode', then 'Save Changes'.

[tromkehra]

Remember to use Invisible Mode.

User CP+ Edit Options+Check 'Use Invisible Mode', then 'Save Changes'.

Do I need to be invisible during the night hours? *Confused*

[Inziladun]

Do I need to be invisible during the night hours? *Confused*

It's best to be Invisible the entire game, as long as you're an active player.

[tromkehra]

It's best to be Invisible the entire game, as long as you're an active player.

Okie dokie, thanks for letting me know :D.

[wilwarin538]

Oh, I am definitely playing, just want to confirm! :)

[wilwarin538]

So just realised that the DL for me is 5pm, so I'll be on for a few hours at the beginning of Day 1, but then it's night, school and work for me, with barely any breaks in between. So basically Day 1 will really suck for me. Day 2 however should be very good.

[Morsul the Dark]

LEGATE I have fifteen minutes til I prepare for work!

I must know must I vote now or does the deadline expand past the 24 hours?!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

LEGATE I have fifteen minutes til I prepare for work!

I must know must I vote now or does the deadline expand past the 24 hours?!

Copying this from the game thread...

To state it clearly, DL is the time of when the Day 1 narration was posted (the one labeled "Expedition Journal - Day 1 Entry", the third post from the top on the game thread). So you should be able to read the time from there if you are unsure. Although I think I have counted the DL time correctly (I don't trust myself in maths, ever, perhaps somebody could verify or correct me).

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

This is to prevent anybody posting here before the narration is up. NO POSTS HERE NOR ON THE GAME THREAD NOW.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

SPECIAL EVENT: A HUMANE DECISION

This is the first of the events I have been mentioning in the game overview. Since it is only Day 1 and there is not much to go with, the team of peaceful scientists has decided not to go with a lynch with the risk of butchering possible innocents.

What this effectively means for the game is that there will be no lynch toDay.

There will be also no Night kill among the players to balance it. Locking up Inziladun in the compartment is merely a narrational tool, it will not have any effect on the game whatsoever (if the person has any Night activities, he can still perform them) and Inziladun would be released at the beginning of next Day.

ToMorrow, the game will resume as normal, and no other cancellations like this will happen for the rest of the game (we'll be lynching and killing people permanently from now on as usual). You can use the Day 1 as a tool for extra information about the people, so effectively, you can consider this "pre-Day 1" and your "real" Day 1 (so to say, in terms of lynching) starts only now. But as you have genuine (or "genuine") votes cast from yesterDay (as nobody knew about this event), you will be able to use them toMorrow as material for analysis - thus, it will be like a Day 1, but with the difference of having already some record from the previous Day to go on with... surely I can leave it now to your minds.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Eurgh, sorry, I messed up and I originally wrote a wrong lynchee - Inziladun is the one as he was the first one to reach the largest amount of votes.

I'd better still check it after myself once... but you have all you need now in any case :)

[Boromir88]

Wow, I horribly miscalcalcuated the DL by an hour. I just sent up a post at 4:17 (EST) thinking I was still good and cross-posted with everyone including Legate's DL post. I thought I had another hour, I immediately deleted my post and my apologies.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

For future reference as to the legality of voting at :00, did Nerwen's vote count, or not? Because if it did, Mac had the most votes.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

For future reference as to the legality of voting at :00, did Nerwen's vote count, or not? Because if it did, Mac had the most votes.

HA! I knew I had a good reason for that. :D

Okay. *rewrites once again* *and for good measure, corrects the correcting post as well* Okay, don't worry. Further narrations would be less ambiguous. I will take longer time to post them, so I will have more time to check and re-check what I am saying. :D

[satansaloser2005]

HA! I knew I had a good reason for that. :D

Okay. *rewrites once again* *and for good measure, corrects the correcting post as well* Yes, it would be Macalaure. Okay, don't worry. Further narrations would be less ambiguous. I will take longer time to post them, so I will have more time to check and re-check what I am saying. :D

*pets our poor frazzled mod* :)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

NO! ENOUGH!

I will NOT post anything more until I can think clearly. I am going to make myself some cup of hot chocolate or something.

Nerwen's vote didn't count. That makes it Inzil. And stop misleading me, people... :D

(Anyway, for further reference now, perhaps for those who come here only later and whom the shock yet awaits... ;) - Check the game thread to see what actually happened toDay and from the link there you can also see the post summing up exactly what happened.)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

So votes MUST be made by :59. Gotcha.

[Morsul the Dark]

I have WEd off meaning I'll be annoyingly present on Day 2:D

[wilwarin538]

Oh my, so somehow I managed to totally forget about this game on Sunday night and then I had the busiest Monday ever. So sorry about that. I will be around on Day 2 though.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I have to announce that Roa unfortunately had to withdraw from the game (for RL reasons, she just cannot afford to play now). I can no longer put that into toDay's narration, but I will make her leave on the following Day. In any case, she won't be participating anymore toDay so you can leave her out also of your Wolf-hunting. For the record, she was an innocent.

I will put a short note of her role into the Night 2 summary, too, for easy referrence.

[Mnemosyne]

So, does this make me a Fenris or not?

[satansaloser2005]

So, does this make me a Fenris or not?

For what it's worth I say yes, because this was the first day with a proper lynch (and technically wasn't yesterDay a tie anyway) so it should count. *nods*

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So, does this make me a Fenris or not?

I think you should appeal to the "main commitee", but I think (at least what I can say as a Mod) while nominally it was Day 2, technically it was still Day 1... you didn't get any Night kill or anything, so...

[Boromir88]

So, does this make me a Fenris or not?

Put and asterisk next to it and I'll vote yes. :p :rolleyes:

[Thinlómien]

Sorry darling, I say Nay. This was Day2 and we chose another lynch victim on Day1. ;)

[Morsul the Dark]

Won't be around much tomorrow in fact I might not make it at all...

Also I'll agree with lommy Inzil was day one

[Mnemosyne]

If so, Lommy, then my life officially sucks right now, because I still didn't get a kill in, and there wasn't a Ranger save or anything.

I'll be all right in a few, but I need a couple of hours to wallow in self-pity and the 'Downs isn't a good place to do it. If you need me you'll find me in with the chocolate ice cream.

[satansaloser2005]

If so, Lommy, then my life officially sucks right now, because I still didn't get a kill in, and there wasn't a Ranger save or anything.

I'll be all right in a few, but I need a couple of hours to wallow in self-pity and the 'Downs isn't a good place to do it. If you need me you'll find me in with the chocolate ice cream.

Stick around, plucky one, I may have a present for you. (And I'll take you out to dinner on Saturday if you like to help with the agony.)

[Mnemosyne]

All better now. Until (unless?) there's some sort of consensus with the Powers that Be, I have a title.

Not technically true, because I'm definitely dead, but The Duck of Balrog Wingedness just doesn't have the same punch.

[Boromir88]

You could always start a counter-committee to install Mnemo into Fenris wolvery. I'm sure sally would head it, and I'd sign up, to stick it to Lommy seeing as my rejection of being a Fenris Penguin lasted well over a year did not make her happy. :p

[Mnemosyne]

Well, so far we've just been talking with people in this game and not the actual committee...

IS there a committee, anyway? I'll have to PM Mith; I know that she was one of the first in the elite and mysterious club, and I trust her judgment to be fair and wise.

[satansaloser2005]

You could always start a counter-committee to install Mnemo into Fenris wolvery. I'm sure sally would head it, and I'd sign up, to stick it to Lommy seeing as my rejection of being a Fenris Penguin lasted well over a year did not make her happy. :p

I've already written up the petition. ;)

[Thinlómien]

Cuties.

[Boromir88]

Well, so far we've just been talking with people in this game and not the actual committee...

IS there a committee, anyway? I'll have to PM Mith; I know that she was one of the first in the elite and mysterious club, and I trust her judgment to be fair and wise.

Mith would be a good option, I've always assumed Lommy was the chair-person, because she was the one who constantly bugged me about adding "Fenris Penguin," and from there I've always also assumed anyone who is Fenrised gets added onto the committee. But I don't know the specifics.

I've already written up the petition. ;)

Great. Add me. :D

[Thinlómien]

Mith would be a good option, I've always assumed Lommy was the chair-person, because she was the one who constantly bugged me about adding "Fenris Penguin," and from there I've always also assumed anyone who is Fenrised gets added onto the committee. But I don't know the specifics.Nah, Anguirel is the honourable founder of the organisation, Mith is the current chair-person and I'm just a bossy type random member. ;)

[satansaloser2005]

Sorry I just got around to putting this up; trudged home and grabbed a sandwich and chips before I posted. Enjoy! :)

(Oh, and if anyone finds a good video of this actual song lemme know and I'll link it in.)



Legate:
Some wolves just go on,
Hardly caring of titles.
Others just coast through
The game being idle.
But Mnemo’s not like that,
She finds herself suspect
She’d much rather be
In the mod’s Werewolf death list!
Because she’s Fenris Duck!

Lommie:
Sir, if I just point out that

Legate:
Fenris Duck!

Lommie:
It isn't even the first Day!

Sally and Legate:
A Fenris Duck!

Lommie:
There’s been a lynch
She wasn’t in it!

Sally:
Fenris Duck!

Legate:
Just keep in mind
No Night One kill

Sally:
Come on, sing with us, Boro.

Boro:
Um, okay. Ahem….
I guess a Fenris Duck!

Legate:
And that is why I cannot argue

Boro:
Fenris Duck!

Legate:
I’m always busy counting votes

Sally:
Yes, Fenris Duck!

Legate:
'Cause quite unlike
our dear old phantom.

Sally and Boro:
Fenris Duck!

Legate:
I think Mnemo’s a....woman of impeccable taste!
Look at the rules, dear village,
and I think you will agree.
The only opinion that matters
in the Werewolf thread is….me!
So please don't tell me how
Inzil should be dead, or whatever, this or that.
Now go dispose of Mnemo’s body
Maybe make me a nice hat (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=548999&postcount=149)!

Lommie:
Oh boy!

Legate:
Because she’s Fenris Duck!

Lommie and Morsul:
We don't know why we don’t have hoisin

Legate:
Fenris Duck!

Unexpected!Roa:
And now I wish I would’ve stayed

All:
Because she’s Fenris Duck!

Lommie:
It doesn’t matter really
‘Cause she’s still a roasted duck

Legate:
So let the werewolves run amok!

Roa:
I fear the werewolves’ lives now suck

All:
Because she’s Fenris Duck!

Lommie:
Yes, and Sally’s gone quite mad

Legate:
So let the werewolves run amok

Unexpected!Anguirel:
I’m hungry for some crispy duck!

Legate:
Because she’s Fenris- Hey what's going on? She doesn't get a solo!

Sally:
Oh, but I love my duck
You're always there to entertain
I love my duck
You're my favorite little wench
*hums off-key*
Because I love….my….duck

(And at this point real!Sally gets lazy and cuts off the parody, so everyone breaks out into random happy song!)

All:
We love….the….duck!!!!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

++Fenris Duck

[satansaloser2005]

++Fenris Duck

[Thinlómien]

To be honest, I think we should shut up. ;)

[Mnemosyne]

Aw, thanks. I still wish I'd killed you all*, though. :D:D:D

*May or may not include fellow wolves

[wilwarin538]

Unexpected!Wilwa:

Fenris Ducksicle

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Regrettably, I have to announce that tromkehra had to withdraw from the game (too much of RL obligations). Once again, I am going to announce her departure in the evening narration, but for now, let it he known that she was an ordinary innocent cook. (Reposting this on the admin thread too.)

(Well in any case, I hope it's not the last we see of her.)

[Mithalwen]

So, does this make me a Fenris or not?

Not. You were not lynched on Day One. The fact that noone was is irrelevant. A vote was made.

[Roa_Aoife]

I just have to say, reading through the thread, it tickles me that people are now merging my name and Nogrod's into NogRoa, as if we are an entity unto ourselves. A very manic entity, with multiple personalities that don't get along along with each other, but a single entity nonetheless. :D

[Nogrod]

but a single entity nonetheless. :DDon't they call those entities schitzophrenics? :)

[satansaloser2005]

ToMorrow, the game will resume as normal, and no other cancellations like this will happen for the rest of the game (we'll be lynching and killing people permanently from now on as usual). You can use the Day 1 as a tool for extra information about the people, so effectively, you can consider this "pre-Day 1" and your "real" Day 1 (so to say, in terms of lynching) starts only now. But as you have genuine (or "genuine") votes cast from yesterDay (as nobody knew about this event), you will be able to use them toMorrow as material for analysis - thus, it will be like a Day 1, but with the difference of having already some record from the previous Day to go on with... surely I can leave it now to your minds.

I just happened to notice this, and it made me happy. *quacks*

In other news, toMorrow will be rather insane for me, so I may not be around all that much. Just giving a heads up because I'd forgotten before. :)

[Nerwen]

Apologies for not voting yesterDay– my internet died on me.

And Mith... Awww, come on, let Mnemo be Fenris Duck. Even Legate says the first Day One didn't count!

[Mithalwen]

No. No brainer. If she had been the day one choice I MIGHT have considered it. Being lynched on two days evidence is not the same. And if you think this is a democracy you misunderstand the situation.

[Morsul the Dark]

I agree with Mith

[Mithalwen]

And Mith... Awww, come on, let Mnemo be Fenris Duck.


Besides that title is by rights Nilp's should he wish to use it since he became a Fenris beast in the Wereducks game. I can't "let" Mnemo be it... she just isn't. This is something that one doesn't seek out it is thrust upon one. You can whine and petition or even channel the spirit of the late Lord Denning but it won't change the situation.

[Mithalwen]

Nah, Anguirel is the honourable founder of the organisation, Mith is the current chair-person and I'm just a bossy type random member. ;)

Anguirel is the original Fenris wolf and he named our order at my behest. There is no committee ergo I am not its chairman. It is far simpler than that.

[Mnemosyne]

Not. You were not lynched on Day One. The fact that noone was is irrelevant. A vote was made.

That's okay. I just wanted to get the opinion of someone who 1). wasn't actually in the game, and 2). who at least had the semblances of authority on the matter.

[Mithalwen]

It is *searches for appropriate comparison" a err federal matter and so not in a mod's jurisdiction much as I otherwise champion the divine rights of mods.
And I don't have the semblances of authority, I am the authority unless the King should return.....:Merisu:

Don't you just love the "It's my ball and I'm going home now" school of arguments. :D

[satansaloser2005]

*snickers*

This is almost more fun than the actual game thread.:rolleyes:

[Thinlómien]

In case I'm alive on next Day (Day6?), don't expect too much participation from me! I'm going to spend the weekend on a friend's (Aganzir's, actually ;)) summer cottage. I have a laptop and a portable internet, but my portable internet has been working rather erratically for the last week so I'm not sure if it will work, and even if it does, then I can't spend too much time online or my friends will kill me...

[satansaloser2005]

So much internet trouble. I'm not sure if I'll be on much more toDay, but I'll read over the thread and see what I can do in the next few minutes.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

In case anybody was starting to think that there is too little adrenaline in this game nowadays, here comes the second special event.

You have been all locked in the sacrificial chamber. It is necessary that you sacrifice one of your own to open the door and get out of the place, otherwise you all die here without oxygen. After you get out, though, you will lynch one person as usual. That means technically two "lynches" toDay.

In addition to the normal lynch vote, you get the chance to vote somebody for sacrifice toDay. Each player has one sacrifice vote. The vote is cast similarly to the normal one, but highlighted (you highlight a piece of text by writing [ highlight ]THE TEXT YOU ARE HIGHLIGHTING[ /highlight ] without spaces inside the brackets), like this:

++sacrifice Legate of Amon Lanc

You can choose not to cast your lynch vote for toDay, if you wish, and instead cast only your sacrifice vote (it both counts as if you have voted toDay for the purposes of having to vote). You can even choose to go for no-lynch toDay and only for the sacrifice, by voting thus:

++no lynch

just as if you were voting for a person. If there are more "no lynch" votes in total than lynch votes for any other person, no lynch is going to be made. (But the same cannot be done for sacrifice.)

The votes are in absolutely no relation to each other, i.e. it is like two totally separate lynches going on at the same time, not influencing each other at all. If the same person is voted for both sacrifice and lynch, he/she is going to be sacrificed (sacrifice takes priority) and the second person with the most lynch votes is going to be lynched (it can even be a "no lynch"). If there are lynch votes only for one person (if the voting was unambiguous) and the person is sacrificed first, there will be also no lynch (as there are no other votes).

Otherwise, sacrifice works like a normal "lynch".

*******************************************

EXAMPLE

Frodo, Sam and Gollum are the three last players who have not placed any of their votes on Day 7 yet. Sam has already 1 lynch vote and Gollum has 1 lynch vote, Gollum and Frodo have also 1 sacrifice vote each.

LYNCH: Sam (1), Gollum (1). Left to vote: Frodo, Sam, Gollum.
SACRIFICE: Gollum (1), Frodo (1). Left to vote: Frodo, Sam, Gollum.

Gollum votes to sacrifice Frodo, who has now 2 sacrifice votes, but when it comes to lynching, he does not think Sam is guilty, and he does not want to vote for himself (obviously).So he votes for "no lynch".

LYNCH: Sam (1), Gollum (1), no lynch (1). Left to vote: Frodo, Sam.
SACRIFICE: Frodo (2), Gollum (1). Left to vote: Frodo, Sam.

Frodo is fed up with Gollum, so he votes to lynch him and also to sacrifice him. That puts Gollum in the lead in lynching, but Frodo is still in lead for sacrifice, as he was the first one to achieve the highest number of votes.

LYNCH: Gollum (2), Sam (1), no lynch (1). Left to vote: Sam.
SACRIFICE: Frodo (2), Gollum (2). Left to vote: Sam.

Sam wants to get rid of Gollum, but he does not want to lose Frodo. So he votes to sacrifice Gollum, thus putting him in the lead. In this case, Gollum would be sacrificed, but Sam, having the second most votes for lynching, would be lynched. So he votes for "no lynch", making "no lynch" the second option after Gollum, who is sacrificed and so he cannot be lynched. Because of that, "no lynch" is "lynched" instead of Gollum - so no lynch is actually made toDay.

If there are still any questions, you may ask them here or PM them to me.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Sorry for the late posting of DL, I got sidetracked (my cousin's dog just died and I completely forgot about WW even though during the last few hours I was basically only waiting for the clock as the outcome seemed clear already). But as you can see, for those of you who live, the game's not over yet and you have a nice Night now and can look forward to the following Day ;)

[Roa_Aoife]

Psst... Bes is male.....

*goes back to being dead*

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Psst... Bes is male.....

*goes back to being dead*

Ugh! Father Frost take it!

I know it (probably longer than most of the players) but forgot it. Thanks :) *goes to edit*

[Pitchwife]

my cousin's dog just died and I completely forgot about WW
So would I have. Hope s/he didn't have to suffer long. Heartfelt condolences!
*sinks back into his grave*

[satansaloser2005]

So would I have. Hope s/he didn't have to suffer long. Heartfelt condolences!
*sinks back into his grave*



What he said.

*doesn't sink into a grave, but rather into Bed*

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

So would I have. Hope s/he didn't have to suffer long. Heartfelt condolences!
*sinks back into his grave*

Thanks (both). But nay, but he was an old dog, they've had him for long (13 years). He was fun, but he has really seen a lot...

Anyway, you people'd better sharpen your minds... or those who are dead prepare your cheerleading slogans... for toMorrow... :)

[satansaloser2005]

Thanks (both). But nay, but he was an old dog, they've had him for long (13 years). He was fun, but he has really seen a lot...

Anyway, you people'd better sharpen your minds... or those who are dead prepare your cheerleading slogans... for toMorrow... :)

I don't suppose there's a chance of starting toMorrow early, is there? Prolong the agony of End Game? ;)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I don't suppose there's a chance of starting toMorrow early, is there? Prolong the agony of End Game? ;)

No, no, we will start normally, also because Lommy is away from city now and coming back only later tomorrow... or actually today... by our time... anyway, let's just keep the schedule normally as it is. You get to take a long deep breath before Day 8 :)

So now all hush, hush and into your beds, children. ToMorrow will come.

[satansaloser2005]

By the way, by all accounts I won't be around much toMorrow. I won't have the internet at work (or so I assume) so I'll have to vote either extremely early or over my lunch hour, which I likely won't get tomorrow. I'll do what I can but wanted to give the heads up just in case.

*toddles off*

[satansaloser2005]

Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*weeps*

On the plus side I've had fun. I'll be waiting to see how it turns out.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

And after all that...

*disbelief*

[satansaloser2005]

Well that was anti-climactic. :(


EDIT: x'd with Shasta


ETA

Well, come now, did you expect me to vote Morsul?

We'd all appreciate it. ;)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Notice - Whenever I'm a Gifted, the innocents lose, but I'm always successful in my Gift. (and no, Cobblerism doesn't count.)

[Loslote]

Did you know the ghosts of Sally and Shasta have been watching over us, and are gnashing their teeth on the admin thread?

They're not the only ones. *waits eagerly for the narration*

EDIT: xed with Shasta

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay folks, dead or alive, you can come and discuss here :)

There will be of course a closing narration coming up yet on the game thread... and a formal announcement of the winner(s), of course :)

[Nienna]

Epic Fail.

But nicely played, wolves. When I died and I found out who the remaining wolves were I was like "oh they will win... no one suspects them"

and I'd just like to apologize to Lommy and Wilwa for suspecting you heavily without apparent cause.

Good game everyone!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

They're not the only ones. *waits eagerly for the narration*

EDIT: xed with Shasta

Hi, Lottie. Sorry I couldn't keep you alive. Me and Sally tried, though. :(

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Epic Fail.

++Nienna for Representative

[satansaloser2005]

Notice - Whenever I'm a Gifted, the innocents lose, but I'm always successful in my Gift. (and no, Cobblerism doesn't count.)

I know. Believe me, I know. ;)



So let me get this straight. We Fenris (sort of) one wolf, the seer dreams another, the hunter takes the third with him, and we still lose? Less than two hours into the Day? I'm sorely, repeat, sorely disappointed.

By the way, Nerwen, nice job killing me. I'd self-protected the Night before but was hoping I'd be confident enough you'd assume I was doing it last Night. Alas, it didn't work, much to my surprise and chagrin.


Still...."very very very unhappy."

Shasta, I may have a song for you, but it'll have to wait a couple days most likely.

[Loslote]

Yes, I saw. And I just knew you two had to be the Gifteds. Great game. :p

EDIT: xed with Shasta and Sally.

[Nerwen]

Well that was anti-climactic. :(

It was, actually. I was expecting to have to put up much more of a fight.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

We Fenris (sort of) one wolf, the seer dreams another, the hunter takes the third with him, and we still lose?

Fixed bolding.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

It was, actually. I was expecting to have to put up much more of a fight.

It's fine, queen of my heart. I still love you. ;) When someone hands you the game on a silver platter, you'd have to be an idiot not to take it, and an idiot you're not.

[satansaloser2005]

Epic Fail.

Ditto.

++Nienna for Representative

Again, ditto.

[Thinlómien]

Like I said, it really seems that
1. innocents never win anymore
2. I never win anymore

:(

Sort of depressing.

My apologies to Nienna and Brinn, and Wilwa too! Slight apologies to Lottie too, but then again, I still think lynching her was sort of reasonable.

And congrats to Bes for fooling me quite nicely, btw. :)

[Nerwen]

By the way, Nerwen, nice job killing me. I'd self-protected the Night before but was hoping I'd be confident enough you'd assume I was doing it last Night. Alas, it didn't work, much to my surprise and chagrin.

Ah, but I guessed that's what you were trying to make me think.;)

(Mind you, I had my heart in my mouth waiting for toDay's DL, I can tell you.)

Kudos to you and Shasta for hiding in plain sight so well. We all talked a lot about who the gifteds might be, but I don't think your names got mentioned except in passing.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Ah, but I guessed that's what you were trying to make me think.;)

(Mind you, I had my heart in my mouth waiting for toDay's DL, I can tell you.)

Kudos to you and Shasta for hiding in plain sight so well. We all talked a lot about who the gifteds might be, but I don't think your names got mentioned except in passing.

Seeing the PMs of those nights might be rather fun... :)

[Nerwen]

It's fine, queen of my heart. I still love you. ;) When someone hands you the game on a silver platter, you'd have to be an idiot not to take it, and an idiot you're not.

Why thank you, emperor of my soul.

Wilt thou kindly explain this to the whale expert, who seems a trifle chagrined?

[satansaloser2005]

Ah, but I guessed that's what you were trying to make me think.;)

(Mind you, I had my heart in my mouth waiting for toDay's DL, I can tell you.)

Kudos to you and Shasta for hiding in plain sight so well. We all talked a lot about who the gifteds might be, but I don't think your names got mentioned except in passing.

Yes, well, when I ended up dead and found out it was you that didn't surprise me. I actually had thought, "You know, this will work on anyone left but Nerwen. I sure hope she's not the last one, or I'm in trouble."

Funnily enough, I protected Morsul. :rolleyes::p

And yes please on the PMs. Shasta and I did a lot of business by IM and even phone, so we can't share everything sadly.

[Nerwen]

Seeing the PMs of those nights might be rather fun... :)

I don't think I saved the earlier Nights. I'll have a look.

[satansaloser2005]

Btw I have a slight feeling of déjà vu, last game I played innocent Sally voted me fatally rather out of the blue on the last Day and the village lost also... Like I told someone on msn, I shouldn't really be left alive for the last Day, I'm too much of a hazard for innocents... ;)

Erm, no I didn't. Well, I did but not at the beginning of the Day. I was tricked by the nasty wolfiekinses, I didn't pull out the white flag for all the world to see. Apples and oranges, my pet, apples and oranges. (Although I was horribly cross with myself for it nonetheless.)

[Thinlómien]

Meh, I'm not chagrined at you, Nerwen, not at all. You were just too good for me first and then used your opportunity smartly. :) I'm more chagrined at werewolf in general, a bit at myself and a bit at Morsul. ;) But it will pass... don't worry. :D

[satansaloser2005]

satansaloser2005 182
Shastanis Althreduin 117
Nogrod 109
Thinlómien 98
Boromir88 82
Morsul the Dark 69
Macalaure 63
Loslote 61
Nerwen 55
Pitchwife 48
Eomer of the Rohirrim 37
Nienna 32
Legate of Amon Lanc 32
Mnemosyne 32
Brinniel 28
Bes 25
wilwarin538 25
Inziladun 24
A Little Green 20
Roa_Aoife 18
tromkehra 5


As I said, Shasta, one pretty darn quiet wolf. (Of the ones left when I made that statement, in fact both of the quiet ones were wolves.)

I suspected Bes pretty quickly but of course "he was just being new" so we couldn't lynch him, alas. Nerwen did very well, though this again proves reverse psychology, as she was a wolf and I barely suspected her.

And now I must go. Fare thee well until my return, dear village.

[Thinlómien]

Erm, no I didn't. Well, I did but not at the beginning of the Day. I was tricked by the nasty wolfiekinses, I didn't pull out the white flag for all the world to see. Apples and oranges, my pet, apples and oranges. (Although I was horribly cross with myself for it nonetheless.)I know you didn't do that in the beginning of the Day but it was similar enough to cause a déjà vu... Anyway, no need to be cross with yourself because of something like that, it's just a game, dear silly-Sally. ;) (I just like how those two words fit together... :p)

[Nerwen]

I only saved pms from Night 3 onwards. These are all my replies, but as you see I quoted the others at length within them.

Night 3

From : Nerwen
To : Bes, Pitchwife
Date : 2009-12-03 11:25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My instinct is to get rid of Mac or Boro, but the first would probably make me very suspicious right now, and the second one I second guess based on what you've just said.

Alternatively, I don't know if it's a good strategy, but we could maybe kill Morsul and see if the crowd decides to kill Mac for it.

No, they probably won't... although, potentially pretty much anyone we kill could frame quite a few people, with the amount of suspicion going around the village.

Killing Mac would be unlikely to get you (Bes) lynchedñ I'm not sure why you say that. I think you're overestimating the amount of suspicion you're under, which is a thing first time wolves tend to do. Be careful not to let yourself get the jitters toMorrow.

If Mac's by any chance the Hunter he might of course decide to add any of us to his list on impulse– but that's a problem that isn't going away. A number of people have noticed how jumpy and "wolvish" he isñ may well mean something.

He's a very good player anyway, so worth getting rid of.

Thoughts?

~Nerwolf.

From : Nerwen
To : Bes, Pitchwife
Date : 2009-12-03 13:36
Title : Who to kill...?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
YesterDay he suspected all of us at once, so I'm leaning yes for a nightkill on Mac. I'd say to let him get lynched, but the suspicion around him wasn't sufficient to get him a single vote, and in the mean time he's still making sense, gifted or not.

Bes, I'm just reading through yesterDay now, and Mac has all of us as "undecided" or "tending innocent", so I'm not sure where you're getting all that from.

Not that his suspecting us would necessarily be a bad thing, as I said, except for that nasty little detail about the Hunter getting three shots.

However, I must confess I'd feel bad about killing Mac so early, when he hasn't played for a long time, and was killed on Night One in his last game (ahem! by me), so I'm currently looking at other prospects as well.

Back soon.

~Nerwolf.

From : Nerwen
To : Bes, Pitchwife
Date : 2009-12-03 16:04
Title : FW: Thoughts about Mac (and toMorrow)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I wonder whether killing Mac might make me look like I backed off him because there was no chance to get him lynched and we were going to eat him anyway. And if he's the Hunter, I may be on his list already (more likely than either of you, I'd guess).
I think I could live (or rather die) with that, as we've got to get rid of the Hunter sooner or later, and our chances of escaping them (if it's not Mac) aren't likely to get better. It would suck to loose two of our pack in series, and I'd be sad to leave you two alone with the hard work to come, but still.

Don't know how I'll be able to fend for myself toMorrow - I'll try my very best, of course. Anyway, if I manage to stick my head in the noose, you two should keep your paws clean - or if you push what's falling, do it convincingly (i.e. with better reasons than Mnemo had against me yesterDay!). I'd think you have pretty good chances to survive for quite a while, so don't get tainted.

Another matter - do you think we can make any of the Lottie-wagoners look like they voted to save Mnemo? Difficult, as Mnemo had 5 votes already when Lottie got her 2nd, but worth a try?

Going to re-read the thread now for signs of Gifteds, other than Mac.
Pitch

As I said to Besñ you're not under as much suspicion as you think... not considering how paranoid the whole village is getting about itself, anyway.

If not Mac, then I suggest Lommy, Nienna, or Eomer, who have all seemed quite odd, and whose deaths might cause a nice stir. Or, as I said last Night, Zil. He might be harder to lynch now, too. Or Boro– however, if my pm theory is correct, I think it would put him in the non-gifted category.

Yes to trying to frame the Lottie-voters– but be subtle!

Other than that, we'll have plenty of useful analysing of Mnemo to do tomorrow.

Now look, I really need to get some sleep, as it is very late here. Can I leave it to you to send in the kill, Pitch? I'm saying this in case you or Bes gets a sudden inspiration, or else just decide Mac's too risky at present, in which case pick one of the others. I'm not too particular which one.

~Nerwolf.

As you see, we really though Mac was a likely gifted at that point– and not a thought of Sally or Shasta. However, Pitch was left to make the decision on his own, and decided on Zil.

Night 4

From : Nerwen
To : Bes, Pitchwife
Date : 2009-12-05 03:06
Title : FW: Damn! A @ß%& Seer!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phew! What a Day...
Lottie's reveal was a nasty surprise for us, to be sure. Sorry, Bes - nice try to get rid of the Seer, but you climbed out on a limb there, and as an innocent, I would so totally have applied the saw to it, I just couldn't resist. I was racking my brains for how to avoid voting you - thankfully others came up with the newbie excuse. Now we can only hope she takes Mac's advice and dreams someone else but you (or the rest of us)...

Bes is definitely not the logical person for her to dream, not with so many others looking worse.

Bad news is that Lottie is both good at spotting wolves and, I think, pretty headstrong, and she might just go ahead and dream Bes anyway... in which case you're dead, Bes, and there's not a thing we can do about it.

Good news is that if the worst comes to the worst, Pitch and I don't have any ties to you.

Oh well. We'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

And now I'm just going to take a moment to express my feelings on the situation:

^#&*@*@#*@#*#*@*(&&$@*%%#%#!!!!:mad:

First we lose the Night One kill, now this!

I just hope the next "surprise" works in our favour.

I think we can safely assume the Ranger will protect her toNight (as she's only got this one Night to Dream, there wouldn't be that much point to gamble in order to save her next Night), so this is probably our chance to get rid of Mac instead, or whoever else you think is likely to be Gifted.
Unless the Ranger is one of those who doubted her reveal? Still, not bloody likely.

Not worth the risk. We'll get a free shot at her toMorrow night, so the known innocents will be down to whoever Lottie dreamed– if it's not one of us *crosses fingers*.

The drawback to so many villagers looking highly suspicious is that we can't bet on her dreaming any given person. Shasta is the most likely, but it would be a waste of a lynchee if we killed him and she dreamed someone else.

~Nerwolf.

From : Nerwen
To : Bes, Pitchwife
Date : 2009-12-05 15:31
Title : FW: Nightkill
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I say we kill Eomer, based on the votes. I haven't looked at everything, since my brain is a bit fried, but wouldn't that make Sally look worse?

My brain's not exactly in perfect working condition either, and having a guest with me, I don't really have the time for another read through the thread. Having Eomer meet the Ice-Man is a definite possibility - if it won't look too obviously like framing sally.

It would frame her nicely... but the problem is, Sally is quite likely to get dreamed by Lottie. In fact, after re-reading the thread, she looks even more suspicious than Shasta, what with all that talk of her "partners", and seeming to know Nienna was innocent.

So if we kill Eomer to frame Sally, and toMorrow she becomes a known innocent, it's a bit of a waste.

Unless either of you think he might be gifted? Because it's gifteds and/or dangerous and/or hard-to-lynch players we should be trying for– under the current circumstances, there's no point trying to frame anyone when we don't know who Lottie will dream.

We also probably need to get rid of Shasta before he can go after Nerwen much further. I'm beginning to see where all that talk about his psychic powers comes from...

What, you thought people were just kidding about him being psychic? Now you know.

...So... maybe Shasta after all... or else Greenie, who is generally seen as innocent... or back to Mac.

Thoughts?

~Nerwolf.

From : Nerwen
To : Bes, Pitchwife
Date : 2009-12-05 16:55
Title : More on the Nightkill
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I've been thinking about this some more. I think not Shasta– if he doesn't get dreamed, he'll have his work cut out defending himself toMorrow, and if he does... well, it won't prove anything.

Meanwhile, if we kill him and Lottie dreams, say, Wilwa, we'd have lost two lynch baits instead of one.

How about killing Brinn or Greenie? They're in the hard-to lynch category, and they might be anything.

I have to go now. I'll try to be back before the DL– if I'm not, one of you will have to make the final decision and send in the kill. Sorry about this, but I have a bit of a timezone problem here ...

For toMorrow, I think we should lie low and say nuffin' until we know whether Lottie dreamed one of us. Or at least, say as little as possible. This is not just to avoid incriminating each other– if one of us makes a case against a villager and then is exposed as a wolf, it would be a waste.

What is extremely good, about the only thing that's really gone our way, in fact, is that the late votes last Night look just like a wicked wolvish conspiracy. It could be Days before the village gets that mess sorted out.

Back later (hopefully).

~Nerwolf.

Note that though we were talking about killing Shasta, we weren't thinking of him as a gifted candidate.

Oh, and I went into the next Day quite prepared to throw another of my poor little wolf-cubs to the lambs, or even be thrown myself. I had a nasty feeling Lottie wouldn't dream one of the obvious people.



From : Nerwen
To : Bes
Date : 2009-12-07 03:10
Title : FW: Pitch. :(
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry to leave you alone all this time, Bes my internet died halfway through yesterDay. Not that it would have made any difference.

I hated voting for Pitch. :(

Well, you couldn't have done anything else.

But anyway, that's what I was afraid of, with Lottie. She just does her own thing...

Also, Roa suggests we kill Eomer or Lommy, and find a way to blame Wilwa. Would it be wrong of us to take her advice?

Well, no, she's out of the game and she didn't know anyone's role. Besides, I've been considering Eomer anyway.

Not Lommy, though. I think she'll make good lynch-bait... quite a few people think she's guilty, including Lottie.

~Nerwolf.[/QUOTE]


From : Nerwen
To : Bes
Date : 2009-12-07 05:58
Title : ToNight and ToMorrow...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No worries about earlier. Power went out for about four hours here, and I've only just checked my PMs since. Shall we vote Eomer early then, to make sure it gets in?

Yes, I'll send it in now.

For toMorrow's strategy... well, hopefully we can get the villagers to kill each other for a few more Days. Try and not attract too much attention to yourself. You should be all right, but that comment you made when voting Pitch, about "trying to find a reason not to vote him" might get you in trouble. You'd better just explain you didn't trust Lottie, and hope the rest will be put down to newbie-ishness.

I might go after Sally a bit– she went down in the suspicion lists after Pitch'sexposure, but I bet she's creeping up again now.

We really need our luck to change, though.

~Nerwolf.

From : Nerwen
To : Legate of Amon Lanc
Date : 2009-12-07 06:10
Title : Tonight's kill.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Legate,

We have decided to eat Eomer toNight. We have had enough of his ice-related puns, and wish to put our theory that he is del-ice-ious to the test.

Yours respectfully,

The Wolves.


From : Nerwen
To : Bes
Date : 2009-12-07 16:28
Title : Good luck for toMorrow!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's about all, really.

~Nerwolf.

Night 5

From : Nerwen
To : Bes
Date : 2009-12-09 10:23
Title : RE: Also
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Little time as I had for it before, I have less time for this game now, and I'm not enjoyying it much at this point. I sort of hope they lynch me tomorrow, selfish as that is.

Try and stay alive please, Bes. I've enjoyed playing with you.

However, if by any chance you do find yourself on the block, how about claiming to be a gifted? It might help me find the real ones.

[QUOTE=Bes]Thoughts on who we should night kill? I'm tempted to say Lottie just because she and people close to her keep threatening 'The Wolves' with her as some kind of weapon, even though she's useless to them now...

On that note, it would at least be a way to find out if her reveal was real or not. I think it almost definitely was at this point, but it would lead to all sorts of chaos if she lied.

She got Pitch, remember? There's been only one innocent I've ever played with who told a direct lie about a Seer dream to get someone lynchedñ and it wasn't Lottie.

I want her to stay alive, for the present. All the people doubting her are making themselves look increasingly bad. I think toMorrow Night will be the time to kill herñ depending on what's happened during the Day, of course.

I was going to wait, but Roa has pointed something out to me that I think is relevant.

Boro and Mac really haven't interacted much. They're loud people that no one suspects, and much like I avoid interacting with you during the Day, they seem to do likewise.

I propose, for serious this time, that we take Mac (and if he's the hunter, maybe Sally by extension?) Out of the picture.

Mac + Lommy is also a possible pairing... but whatever. I agree, it's high time we killed him. I've thought him a likely gifted from the start and even if he's not, his death could make things interesting, and help narrow down the possibilities for who the gifteds are. (For instance, I doubt it's Mac + Brinn).

Unless one of us has a sudden inspiration in the next hour, I'll send his name in for the kill.

~Nerwolf.

I never did get around to asking what Bes meant about Sally– I think he hadn't read the rules about the Hunter properly.

From : Nerwen
To : Bes, Legate of Amon Lanc
Date : 2009-12-09 12:31
Title : Tonight's kill.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Legate,

After having Inzil for a main course, A Little Green as greens and a del-ice-ious Eomer dessert, we wolves have had a sudden craving for fast food.

We'd like a Mac toNight.

Yours sincerely,

The Wolves.


Look, Pitch started the jokes, not me.

I'll post the rest later.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Just for the record (or if somebody was blind), narration is up!

Anyway - thanks to everybody for playing... I should go to bed already now, but of course I will join to chat with you here tomorrow after also those who have not shown yet will join us to share their experiences (hopefully).

Just to say the most important things - I hope you all liked the game, as much as I have liked it, and really I think every single one of you has done remarkable impact. (I have been, so to say, following really everybody's personal "fate", and as this far I have been modding only small games, it was really an amazing experience.)

There have been one or two unfortunate things during the game and few people had to drop out, but it was not anything big, and I think compared to how sometimes people massively drop out or do not participate, this game remained quite "stable" and very "live" until the end.

So thanks everybody for playing once again!

And hope you liked my special events and intentionally Legate-ishly over-cryptic narrations. Speaking of special events, though, there is one thing I feel I need to point out so that I do not claim credit for something that has not been my original idea...

I would like to hear feedback about the "false Day 1" (Gifteds and Wolves were intentionally told not to reveal for that purpose, but I tried to make it secret enough so I don't think they had any clue as to what might happen... am I right?). But it is not just me who would like to hear it, I am sure. As there was indeed someone who brought me to that idea in the first place, and I have also notified him that I am going to use it so I assume he is lurking around here somewhere or will appear soon too... Now I feel somewhat stupid to announce his name, as it is such a... cliché to praise his name... :D but it's thanks to him that I could have used this false Day 1 in this game and he is (I am not going to bolden his name so that I don't give spoilers to those who read this)... the phantom. :D Who else.

Aside from that, I must say I have been fearing that the Werewolves were actually a bit in a disadvanteage at start. Basically perhaps the false Day 1 served more to the village (but maybe we can hear the WW's opinion on that?) and also to an extent the Sacrificial Chamber, if "used" well (especially in connection with the still living Hunter - which was something I did not expect to happen!). But they have managed to make their way through.

I must say the Gifteds have done an exceptional job here. They were lucky to remain alive so long, too. Loslote of course made a bullseye with her single dream. For the record, the purpose of the Birthday Dreamer was not actually that much to give another Gifted to the village, but rather to "elevate" a common ordo (like, have you never thought as ordos "gah, if only I had a single dream now, I would sort things out!"?).

But the wolves were sliding well out of the suspicion and the wolf-on-wolf votes have indeed basically cleared them all in the eyes of most in the beginning. What a move!

And I should also give hats off to our newbie Bes, who has remained alive for a looong time. Hope you've liked it and are going to stay with us! (even though now you cannot play on the newbie card as much anymore ;) )

And of course to all the "ordinary" ordos, who contributed well, each with their own...

Okay. Ugh. Well, so that is my "short" post. Ha ha. I should have known myself by now. Well, good night - now at last without capital n.

[Inziladun]

A very enjoyable game, Legate, and my thanks for your hard work. My time ended up being rather short, but it would have been even shorter without the false Day 1.
It was useful, I think, to basically have that Day as a 'do over', but there would have been considerable angst had a wolf been lynched that Day and the fact later revealed (or a Gifted been lynched from the Wolves' point of view).
The 'Sacrifice' looked quite interesting, and after seeing 3 wolves taken down, I echo the consternation that the innocents still managed to lose. :rolleyes:
Hats off to the Wolves, and to Lottie and Shasta, who managed to make good use of their Gifted abilities.

[Nogrod]

What the f...?

The one Day I'm not in early enough you decide to end the game? :(

I said it was odd no-one suspected Nerwen but she still continued living... and I suspected her already on D1!!! :rolleyes:

(Okay, my fault, I should have followed it more closely - and I had absolutely no other reason to suspect her up to yesterDay.)

Why Boro, why?

The "no-Day" was a great idea. Sadly it doesn't work generally as if people know to wait for it it makes D1's even more dull. But on onetime-use it was good!

(Okay, had no time to read the other post-game comments as it is late... coming back tomorrow...)

[Pitchwife]

*rises from the grave to light fireworks and open some bottles of champagne*
I don't think I saved the earlier Nights. I'll have a look.
Don't worry, I've saved everything up to the Night before my lynching and will post them in a quiet moment when we're all done celebrating or lamenting, respectively.

Hey Nerwen, congratulations on your victory! Morsul's vote was sheer luck, of course (and I wonder what he'll say when he's done kicking himself:p:)), but you deserved it nevertheless - not the least for your patience in putting up with three first-time cubs. I really don't want to know how often during this game you wondered what the Angband we thought we were doing...

Which reminds me -
By the way, do you realise he started the "Mr Agreeable" thing? He said something on Day One about how "wolves often try to seem agreeable"...
I'm sure some people must have noticed it - that's why it was so much fun to point out and rub it in how perfectly the description fit my own behaviour (which of course I wasn't aware of when I said this, stupid me, but I naturally tend to be like this - reluctant to judge anybody rashly, always trying to see the other side, etc., unless I make a conscious effort or see something that really screams wolf to me; which made it quite difficult for me to be vicious with malice aforethought and make a convincing case against a known innocent - and made it much easier to go wolf-on-wolf when the occasion presented itself).

Bes, sorry again for turning against you about Lottie's reveal. You played the newbie card very well, and no small feat to survive so long. Being taken down by the Hunter on the Day before the last is quite an honourable death for a Werewolf, I think. May we meet again!

(À propos, Lottie - I didn't really mean to urge you to dream Bes, I just thought you were very likely to dream him anyway, so it couldn't hurt. Little did I know I was digging my own grave there:o... As it turned out, I must plead guilty to having gravely underestimated you - a mistake I hopefully won't make again so soon. Great job there!)

Mnemo - thanks for your sacrifice, which I obviously profited from (honestly, I was quite surprised how the suspicion against me suddenly abated after our wolf-on-wolf act), but I'm really curious: were you actually planning to get lynched on Day 2/Day 1b, or what was that all about?

I'll get round to giving the innocents their due tomorrow, but now for some sleep.

[Macalaure]

I have to be more consequent with Nerwen - innocent-looking = evil, suspicious = innocent. I might have suspected Bes at some point, but you?

And I was so sure that Nogrod was the last wolf, certainly after he was the brain behind the Lottie lynch... I couldn't believe you people actually did that. :eek:

However, I must confess I'd feel bad about killing Mac so early, when he hasn't played for a long time, and was killed on Night One in his last game (ahem! by me), so I'm currently looking at other prospects as well.How sweet. :D

You guys really wanted to kill me all the time! I feel honoured. ;)

[Loslote]

*snickers*

That just made my day. Nerwen, Bes, and Pitchie, you amuse me greatly.

[wilwarin538]

and I'd just like to apologize to Lommy and Wilwa for suspecting you heavily without apparent cause.





My apologies to Nienna and Brinn, and Wilwa too!

No worries, no worries, I did plenty to make me look bad so I don't blame you at all!

I blame Boro. :p And it turns out him and I being "rivals" doesn't do much good at all, haha. ;)


That was a great game everyone! You wolves did a very good job, and I didn't suspect any of you. Sally, Shasta and Lottie, you all did great!!! And Legate, you did a lovely job, you're narrations were totally awesome! :D

[Roa_Aoife]

That was fantastic to watch, especially after Bes informed on who the wolves were. I couldn't help laughing over and over again, especially at Nog, with "So and so must be a wolf! There is no other explanation!" Oh, sweetie, you make me giggle. ;)

The rampant paranoia was highly amusing, especially when you all turned on your one known innocent. I still can't believe you guys did that. I kept thinking, "No, they won't fall for it. No one ever falls for that."

Also:

Also, Roa suggests we kill Eomer or Lommy, and find a way to blame Wilwa. Would it be wrong of us to take her advice?

That's right! It was me! I killed Eomer while being dead and not a wolf! Mwahahahahaha! (I know not really, but the thought still tickles me.;))

[Morsul the Dark]

Morsul's vote was sheer luck, of course (and I wonder what he'll say when he's done kicking himself:p:)),


I'd say "Lommy why were you so suspicious. And Nerwen why were you so charming. and to other innocents next time lynch me so I don't mess up!:rolleyes:"

[Roa_Aoife]

Don't feel bad Morsul. If the rest of the village hadn't lynched all those innocents before hand, your vote wouldn't have been so crucial. That's why Werewolf is a team sport. Everyone's decisions affect the outcome of the game, and there really isn't a "crucial vote" because every vote has affected the outcome. Hence why you can die early and still claim victory if your side whens.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

The rampant paranoia was highly amusing, especially when you all turned on your one known innocent. I still can't believe you guys did that. I kept thinking, "No, they won't fall for it. No one ever falls for that."



Hey, I refuse to be made part of that. Sally and I did our level best to keep Lottie from being lynched, and Nienna can quote me - I exploded when Bes voted. Not a happy Shasta then. :rolleyes: Actually, since Sally and I were the main opponents to a Lottie lynch, I was sure we'd outed ourselves then, and advised Sally to protect herself accordingly (whoops). I was like "No innocent would have led that lynch. No way."

[Nerwen]

Hey, I refuse to be made part of that. Sally and I did our level best to keep Lottie from being lynched, and Nienna can quote me - I exploded when Bes voted. Not a happy Shasta then. :rolleyes: Actually, since Sally and I were the main opponents to a Lottie lynch, I was sure we'd outed ourselves then, and advised Sally to protect herself accordingly (whoops). I was like "No innocent would have led that lynch. No way."

Well, well. And to think on that Night I did consider Sally. But then I thought, "Nah, they wouldn't be that obvious". Just as well...

However– last Night, when it was fairly clear Sally was in fact the Ranger, I partly based my decision to try and kill her on the fact that she might have felt the need to protect herself the Night before, after the way she'd stuck her neck out. I think that's a rare example of 20/20 hindsight actually being useful.

But as I said, good job hiding, both of you. I was getting quite mad at myself, as I rather pride myself on my gifted-spotting.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, well. And to think on that Night I did consider Sally. But then I thought, "Nah, they wouldn't be that obvious". Just as well...

However– last Night, when it was fairly clear Sally was in fact the Ranger, I partly based my decision to try and kill her on the fact that she might have felt the need to protect herself the Night before, after the way she'd stuck her neck out. I think that's a rare example of 20/20 hindsight actually being useful.

But as I said, good job hiding, both of you. I was getting quite mad at myself, as I rather pride myself on my gifted-spotting.

*bows, applauds you in return for some rather good wolfing*

To be honest, I'm not sure I would have gotten you the last Day anyway; I'd passed over Nogrod for sure and was leaning toward innocent on Lommie, but Morsul had done so much for the wolves (and to me, honestly) that I couldn't imagine him being innocent. I thought maybe we had a cobbler after all. Then again, I had you pegged as my other suspect, and knew that if the wolf wasn't Morsul they'd certainly kill him because I was the only one who really suspected him. I said to Legate last Night that I was making a grave mistake but was fine with dealing with the consequences. At least I didn't protect you. :p


And again, I was killed at Night and the wolves won. My streak remains intact. If I'm wrongfully lynched the village loses, if I'm Night killed the village loses, but if I survive to the end....erm, I normally screw up. But not all the time, so I take comfort in the fact that I played a fairly decent game and had a darn good time.


Cookies to anyone who can find all my hints; there were quite a few, so I'm surprised I lasted as long as I did.


Oh, and a point of interest. Shasta and I had decided that if at any point we were forced to reveal we would do so in reverse, with him as the ranger and I as the hunter. This would hopefully dissuade wolves from killing me and allow him to do his duty while protecting me at the same time, at least for a Day or two. Alas, it never came to that, but I thought it was quite a clever plan. :D

[Bes]

First, I don't know that I deserve the compliments I've received, but thanks to each of you regardless. I had fun towards the end, after calming down a bit, and I'd like to think I've made some friends here.

To Shasta: To be honest? After I found that bit from Nog in the '07 game, I did spend a while wondering if maybe Lottie or Legate just forgot to PM us or something. I rejected that theory before long(between that post and the next, I forget where exactly), but do keep in mind that not every time I did something newb-ish was disingenuous. It's my first game, after all. I would have pursued that as an innocent, and ironically because of the WAY I died this game means I wouldn't have died for it, but... Not how things turned out.

Other honest mistakes: The bit with the ranger dying? Yeah, I screwed up there. With the role posted right in the admin thread, no less. Day 1 no lynch idea? Honest curiosity, and I had to laugh a little every time extended that question further to be "Bes didn't want a day one vote, this is SUSPICIOUS. :mad:" I'd be willing to bet that an observant reader could pick out where I was and wasn't making honest mistakes, in retrospect. Ah well.

Also: *hugs Lottie, Shasta and Sally* No hard feelings about the Lottie-lynch, I hope.

[satansaloser2005]

Also: *hugs Lottie, Shasta and Sally* No hard feelings about the Lottie-lynch, I hope.

Of course not! You were a wolf; you were supposed to want that. I'd expect nothing else.


And kudos on being such a good wolf cub! I thought you were blaringly obvious as a wolf but that's because I pick up weird stuff and thought you were being more than just new. Nevertheless for your first game you performed splendidly and I hope you'll join games in the future (including my upcoming one)! :)

[satansaloser2005]

Incidentally....Boro, why did you self-sacrifice? I've been wondering because it seemed so silly to me, but I know you must have had some clever reason or something. I would have loved to sacrifice someone else but alas your fate was sealed pretty quickly. Explanation? Please?

[Bes]

I couldn't answer you honestly just yet about whether or not I'll join that one. It's an interesting game, and can be fun-- when you have time for it. I honestly didn't in the first few days, lots of unexpected obligations during day periods. We'll see!

[Pitchwife]

I'd say "Lommy why were you so suspicious. And Nerwen why were you so charming. and to other innocents next time lynch me so I don't mess up!:rolleyes:"
Hey, sorry, that was a bit mean of me. But things like that happen to all of us - and it's not like you were the only innocent there who with the best intentions did his bit to help us win! So no bad feelings, I hope.:)

[Nerwen]

Hey Nerwen, congratulations on your victory! Morsul's vote was sheer luck, of course (and I wonder what he'll say when he's done kicking himself:p:)), but you deserved it nevertheless - not the least for your patience in putting up with three first-time cubs. I really don't want to know how often during this game you wondered what the Angband we thought we were doing...

Pitch, you darling adorwable fuzzy widdle wolfcubs did the number one thing I wanted, which was not to leave obvious trails to me or each other. From the start I'd pretty much counted on at least half the pack getting killed. You and Mnemo were, after all, in the uncomfortable position of being first-time wolves but fairly well-known players... and then it was such a large village, with a high-powered (not to mention psychic:rolleyes: ) Hunter. And that was before I knew of Legate's first "twist" and the fact that there was a Seer of sorts after all.

I must say, Legate, this was not an easy set-up for us poor wolves!

[Morsul the Dark]

Sally: To be honest, I'm not sure I would have gotten you the last Day anyway; I'd passed over Nogrod for sure and was leaning toward innocent on Lommie, but Morsul had done so much for the wolves (and to me, honestly) that I couldn't imagine him being innocent. I thought maybe we had a cobbler after all. Then again, I had you pegged as my other suspect, and knew that if the wolf wasn't Morsul they'd certainly kill him because I was the only one who really suspected him. I said to Legate last Night that I was making a grave mistake but was fine with dealing with the consequences. At least I didn't protect you.


How about next time I use my psychic powers to read everyone? Act suspicious I'll vote for you.

Pitch: Hey, sorry, that was a bit mean of me. But things like that happen to all of us - and it's not like you were the only innocent there who with the best intentions did his bit to help us win! So no bad feelings, I hope.


even after game he's "Mr. Agreeable:rolleyes:
Of course there's no hard feelings it's a game for a reason.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

We also probably need to get rid of Shasta before he can go after Nerwen much further. I'm beginning to see where all that talk about his psychic powers comes from...
What, you thought people were just kidding about him being psychic? Now you know.

and then it was such a large village, with a high-powered (not to mention psychic ) Hunter.

:smokin:

[Shastanis Althreduin]

By the way, Nerwolf, you were on my very first list as Hunter. :rolleyes:

I don't have all the PMs I sent Legate changing my list, but I did it... a lot. There were a couple times I changed during the day and had to inform sally via a code, too.

[Mnemosyne]

Neener.

Neener.

Okay, I've been dead all game so I'm allowed to gloat just a little.

Legate: False Day One was a great idea. Except for the part where I definitely didn't get to kill anyone. Basically I'm still trying to see how that could work out in the advantage of the wolves, and I'm not sure if you did anything specifically to balance that fact out (unless you want to consider the lack of seer).

Pitch, and everyone else: No, I was not trying to get myself lynched on Day OnePointFive. I had actually managed to maintain a sufficient level of cognitive dissonance that I half thought I was an innocent during the Daytime. So I was extraordinarily ticked that the one time I got lynched for... well, playing as I would as an innocent, I happened to be a wolf! Grrrrrrr...

It also meant, Nerwen, that I was pretty mad at you for being the only person online when I could actually talk, which meant that if I wanted to talk about anything I had to focus on your attacks on me, which made me look even more suspicious.

But basically, to explain, this is all true stuff about me as a lurker/player:

1). I can do great stuff in theory.
2). I am terrible at putting this theory into practice. It is nearly impossible for me to find wolves.
3). Whenever I analyze players it always tells me more about me than it does about them.
4). I purposely withhold from playing WW until I think I have the time and mental energy to commit to it (after this game, deadline is going to affect this as well. I really was not my best near the end of day because I was distracted because of classes going on. I cannot multitask for the life of me). This is also so I won't lose the zeal for the game when this sort of thing happens. I love love love getting first post in for each Day, even though it means nothing and can actually make me look suspicious. So, yeah, when regular players get as bouncy as Mnemo-oh-my-Valar-I'm-playing-Werewolf-again, I get nervous.

So no wonder I was upset about getting lynched over all these things rather than anything that could actually point to my being a wolf.

It could of course also be that the cognitive dissonance thing just wasn't enough and my subconscious can't handle being anything other than an innocent. But I can't see myself playing any other way. And of course I never lived long enough to find out. :(

So, yeah, I was pretty ticked when it happened. Especially at Nerwen. But man, when everyone was all, "Nerwen's totally innocent now, kthx" (a reputation which mostly, I think, lasted throughout the game) and people dropped some Pitch suspicion I forgave them all in a heartbeat.

Oh, and finally...

This was my third game as a player, people. You are not allowed to give other relatively new players a pass on newbishness in the actual game and not give it to me.

I really still have mixed feelings about my time in the game... My schedule wouldn't allow me to play in the next round anyway, but even if it did I'd probably skip out just so that I could max out my zealometer again.

Finally, sally: remind me to kill phantom when we see him next.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

I'd be willing to bet that an observant reader could pick out where I was and wasn't making honest mistakes, in retrospect. Ah well.

Indeed, when I was reading your posts (of course knowing your role all the time), I think I saw where you were making a honest mistake and where probably not - although as the time passed, continuously I was becoming more confused, as of course I did not know what the other Wolves would have told you and what they wouldn't. Sometimes it was interesting to see in terms of what people have been suspecting you for. But anyway I think you managed to get through that pretty well.

Legate: False Day One was a great idea. Except for the part where I definitely didn't get to kill anyone. Basically I'm still trying to see how that could work out in the advantage of the wolves, and I'm not sure if you did anything specifically to balance that fact out (unless you want to consider the lack of seer).
Yes, it was at least a bit of a disadvantage for the Wolves, I agree. That's part of what I said about not being sure if the game wasn't a bit disbalanced in favor of the innocents (but still you see who won :) ). The problem was that I didn't have any precedens and I had to guess. Because there was no telling that the second Day 1 won't lead to more confusion going after somebody who accidentally made a very weird, but innocent vote on the Day before. Also the Wolves had the whole Night to discuss how to cope with the situation on the following Day. All in all, I don't think it was that much of a disadvantage for the Wolves, but it was mainly moving the game from one stage to another - although I can still see the questionmarks surrounding it.

By the way, if somebody wants to see the summary of Wolf/Ranger/Hunter/Dreamer picks as they went by Nights (and Days), I can put them here:

Night 1:
Hunter - Roa, Brinn, Mac, Boro

Day 1:
Lynch - Inzil (would-be)

Night 2: nothing

Day 2:
Hunter - Nerwen, Brinn, Boro, Nienna
Lynch - Mnemo

Night 3:
Wolves - Inzil
Ranger - Mac
Hunter - Nienna, Brinn, Nerwen

Day 3:
Hunter - Brinn, Nerwen, Nienna
Lynch - Nienna

Night 4:
Wolves - Greenie
Ranger - Loslote
Hunter - Mac, Eomer, Boro
Birthday Dreamer - Pitchwife

Day 4:
Hunter - Mac, Eomer, Boro
Lynch - Pitchwife

Night 5:
Wolves - Eomer
Ranger - Nogrod
Hunter - Boro, Wilwa

Day 5:
Hunter - Mac, Boro
Lynch - Wilwa

Night 6:
Wolves - Mac
Ranger - Nerwen
Hunter - Lommy, Mac

Day 6:
Hunter - Nogrod, Lommy
Lynch - Loslote

Night 7:
Wolves - Brinn
Ranger - Sally (herself)
Hunter - Nog, Boro

Day 7:
Hunter - Bes, Nog
Sacrifice - Boro
Lynch - Shasta

Night 8:
Wolves - Sally
Ranger - Morsul

Day 8:
Lynch - Lommy

[Roa_Aoife]

In game terms, the false start was a definite advantage for the village, giving them more info and stopping the lynch of an innocent, which in this case led to the lynching of a wolf. That may not always be the case, but it still stopped a lynch that causes the death of an innocent 9 times out of 10 and forced the wolves to change strategy.

Birthday dreamer- not unbalancing at all, considering the damage a regular seer can do to the wolves. You can't really account for one-hit wonders like Lottie.

I've made my feelings on "smart hunters" known before, but for the sake of commentary, I've always disliked them as being untrue to the spirit of the game. Before the invention of the logical hunter (I believe that credit goes to LMP in DWI), hunters had a long proud tradition of killing the seer. There was an edginess to it that you had only one choice, and that choice had better be right. And when used like Shasta did, it has a seer like effect of revealing roles and providing known innocents.

This aside, it doesn't really unbalance the game all that much. I do think that using a logical hunter in conjunction with communicating gifteds does unbalance it, though.

The sacrifice day could have gone either way, potentially ending the game with victory for either side, depending on how it went. Again, you can't account for what plans people might come up with, but it was potentially extremely deadly for the wolves, being as there were only two left. I would suggest using it earlier in the game next time, before it becomes a potential game ender.

All that said, the wolves were disadvantaged this game (though not heavily), and everything that could go wrong for them did. (First lynch is a wolf, the seer's ONE DREAM is a wolf, the hunter kills a wolf...) The only thing that didn't go wrong for them was a successful Ranger block. So their victory is that much more impressive.

[Pitchwife]

Your WW role
Congratulations! You are a Werewolf. Your spirit has possessed a body of one of the explorers and now you are here to destroy the rest of the expedition to make yourself free. Your fellow Werewolves are Bes, Mnemosyne and Nerwen, you can communicate with them by PMs at Night. Each Night, you and your mates agree on one person to kill and then you send the message about whom you have picked to me. Your goal is to remain alive until there are as many Werewolves as the remaining innocents.
Good luck for your plotting!
Note: For your own good do not reveal your role on the thread by any means; even if you are about to be lynched (like these resignated „okay, you got me, bye“ posts).

Night 1
Hail packmates!
Dear comrades in tooth and claw,
I'm pleased and honoured to hunt with you. We have some formidable opponents, but I'm confident we'll taste their sweet blood before the end and destroy this miserable expedition.
This is my first game as a wolf, so I'd naturally appreciate any hints and suggestions how to go about it. Bes, you're new, but have you played anything similar before? Mnemo, I actually don't know how many games you've played (I'll never forget the one you modded, though!), but I don't remember seeing you as a wolf before. Luckily, Nerwen at least is a seasoned veteran.
It's probably too early to discuss strategy yet, but the rules look like they don't have a Seer this time, which should make our job a bit easier. On the other hand, there's a pesky secret role which might work against us* (unless, maybe, one of us has it : ?)...
Looking forward to hear from you,
Pitchwolf
*Guess what? It did!

Hey there.
Nice to be working with you three. I never imagined I'd be a wolf in my very first game!
In response to Pitchwife: This is the first game very much like this I've played, based on the description of how it's usually played that I received from Roa. The closest I've come to it is the Mafia card game, and that's much more instinct and face reading.
So, do we get right down to business then? Do we kill someone tonight? If so, how should we pick them?

Re: Hey there.

So, do we get right down to business then? Do we kill someone tonight? If so, how should we pick them?
Conventionally, the Night 1 kill is the Mod - in our case, judging from the narration so far, the captain of the ship. So I expect Legate will take care of his own demise in the narration without any need for us to get our claws bloody.
As to picking our kills early in the game, from what I've seen so far there's two (well, actually three) approaches to this:
1. Kill the loudmouths - i.e. take out an active player who talks a lot and makes good points before they can become a threat to us. (Disadvantage: the loudmouths have a nice habit to suspect one another, which of course can distract them and the rest from us; I think Nogrod and Roa are almost famous for this.)
2. No trail kills - i.e. kill somebody who hasn't posted a lot and hasn't voiced any serious suspicion against any of us, so that the poor innocents won't be able to draw any conclusions from the kill.
3. I almost forgot this, but it's actually the First Commandment: Thou shalt not suffer a Gifted to live.
We'll just have to wait, see and choose according to the situation, as the game unfolds.
Re: Hail packmates!
Hail! And welcome to the deep end of the alignment pool!

This is my first game as a wolf, so I'd naturally appreciate any hints and suggestions how to go about it.
Well, on Day One all we really need to do is avoid the noose. We should also try and spot the gifteds if possible... they can often be picked by their jumpy, often "wolfish" manner. In fact, if all the innocents start saying "X looks wolfish", and X isn't one of us, X might well be a gifted.
The main general advice I can give you and Mnemo is to try and play as much like you normally do as you can. You two are rather vulnerable, though, as everyone will expect you both to post something of substance. So make sure all your cases and lists look well-reasoned.
Bes, as a newbie you'll be immune from lynching on Day One, unless you actually confess or something. If you have time, you might want to read through one or two of the previous games to get the hang of it. (However, bear in mind that the rules change with pretty much every game.) Don't worry if you're a bit confused early in the game, as it will tend to make you look more innocent... as though you couldn't possibly be a wolf who had had other wolves give you lessons on Night One.
The important thing is not to let the village see there are connections between us... especially, don't go all out to save a packmate from lynching. That doesn't mean you have to lynch your fellows- just don't try so hard to save one that you give yourself away in the process. (Mnemo and Pitch know this stuff already, of course, so I'm really talking to Bes here.)

It's probably too early to discuss strategy yet, but the rules look like they don't have a Seer this time, which should make our job a bit easier.
Yes, but the Hunter and Ranger know each other's identities and can pm; also the Hunter gets three shots. That could make things difficult. On the other hand (paw?), it might make it easier to spot them...
On the other hand, there's a pesky secret role which might work against us (unless, maybe, one of us has it : ?)...
No use worrying about that yet. I just hope it's not a renegade wolf!
~Nerwolf.

Re: Hail packmates!

The important thing is not to let the village see there are connections between us... especially, don't go all out to save a packmate from lynching.
Yep, the less we're seen working together in broad Daylight the better. And being wolves, we should be comfortable with natural selection, shouldn't we? Meaning if any of us manage to get themselves in serious danger of getting lynched, I'd suggest they're on their own.

Yes, but the Hunter and Ranger know each other's identities and can pm; also the Hunter gets three shots. That could make things difficult. On the other hand (paw?), it might make it easier to spot them...
Darn, I forgot about the three shots, thanks for reminding me. A good argument for killing the Hunter soon, if we can. So we want to look out for any two people who either seem to be playing into each other's hands, or on the other paw pointedly ignoring each other so as not to give themselves away.

No use worrying about that yet. I just hope it's not a renegade wolf!
The thought has crossed my mind, too. That would be a real nuisance - but it's only a might-be, so let's not start out mistrusting one another because of the mere possibility.

FW: Hail packmates!

Yep, the less we're seen working together in broad Daylight the better. And being wolves, we should be comfortable with natural selection, shouldn't we? Meaning if any of us manage to get themselves in serious danger of getting lynched, I'd suggest they're on their own.
I forgot to say, though, let's not fall into the opposite error of obviously knowing too much. Anyone who "suspects" a packmate needs to be able to point to a good reason for doing so. Otherwise it becomes a question of, "Wait a moment, how did Nerwen know Mnemo was a wolf?"

Darn, I forgot about the three shots, thanks for reminding me. A good argument for killing the Hunter soon, if we can.
Yes- a lot of wolves want to avoid the Hunter at all costs, but these modified Hunters have to die as soon as possible. The longer they live, the more chance they have of catching one of us.
However, it depends... if it looks like one of us has been spotted already, we may need to rethink this.

[Pitchwife]

Well, I feel sheepish.
I'll admit I rushed in to my vote to try to save Mnemo. No one's commented on it in the thread, but I realize it was a gamble that could have (and still could) cost us two wolves instead of the one. Especially since it was effectively my only post of real substance/significance.
Does anyone else feel like Roa and Nogrod are both gifted, and trying to screw with our heads?
Re: Well, I feel sheepish.
Don't. Or rather, I feel the same. Three of us getting involved into the Mac bandwagon wasn't exactly an ideal thing to happen, but honestly, I totally didn't refresh in time to see your vote before posting mine; on the other hand, even if I had, I don't see what else I could have done. For me, it wasn't so much going out to save Mnemo, but sticking with the only 'suspicion' I had voiced so far, anything else would've been suspicious.
Nog and Roa as gifteds - i.e. Ranger and Hunter, putting up a fight for the sake of appearance, counting on it that none of them would be lynched on Day 1? Possible.
And do I need to say I feel rather cheated by Legate's Special Event? No Night kill! Really! Or could that work for us in any way? Don't see how right now...
What d'you all think?
Pitch

Re: Well, I feel sheepish.

I'll admit I rushed in to my vote to try to save Mnemo. No one's commented on it in the thread, but I realize it was a gamble that could have (and still could) cost us two wolves instead of the one. Especially since it was effectively my only post of real substance/significance.
Does anyone else feel like Roa and Nogrod are both gifted, and trying to screw with our heads?
I think you'll be able to get off with it, because you're such an enigma right now. If you can come up with a "I had to rush in and out, better explanation comes here" post toMorrow and just leave it at that, that's just as well.
The whole last hour or so (I got out of class early, so I was able to lurk and see how things were going) was really tense for me, but I'm still pretty sure that those who voted me were voting more for me than me-as-wolf... I was not trying to sound agreeable or please anyone, thank you very much. There was about one thing I did differently (so far as I can tell) than what I'd do as a regular player. And that was that I did not flip that coin.
Sorry, just had to get that off my chest.
The good news about toDay's voting scene is that there were a lot of people who rushed in to save everyone, which means that all y'all's votes will be buried in the murk should I get lynched and found guilty. Maybe we'll lose one in the insanity afterwards, but we shouldn't all go from that.
Bes, I was thinking the same thing you were. Once Lommy said they were in cahoots I was like, "Bingo!" In which case we'd need to get one or both of them immediately...
But at the same time I'm not so sure... I've seen Ordo Wars before (they're hilarious) and they have gotten this ridiculous in the past. As a wolf I'd love to just egg them on, but that's not how I play. Whoever everyone is about to jump on on Day One I almost always want to discourage from being jumped upon.
One huge thing, though... do not bail me out unless it's something you would actually do. I have no problem with being shoved under the bus.
All right, advice, input, discussion would all be lovely right now. I'm still reeling from toDay.
~Mnemo
P.S. If one of us gets lynched toMorrow, is it considered Fenris or not?


Don't. Or rather, I feel the same. Three of us getting involved into the Mac bandwagon wasn't exactly an ideal thing to happen, but honestly, I totally didn't refresh in time to see your vote before posting mine; on the other hand, even if I had, I don't see what else I could have done. For me, it wasn't so much going out to save Mnemo, but sticking with the only 'suspicion' I had voiced so far, anything else would've been suspicious.
Nog and Roa as gifteds - i.e. Ranger and Hunter, putting up a fight for the sake of appearance, counting on it that none of them would be lynched on Day 1? Possible.
And do I need to say I feel rather cheated by Legate's Special Event? No Night kill! Really! Or could that work for us in any way? Don't see how right now...
What d'you all think?
Pitch
Actually, three of us on the same bandwagon looks kind of ridiculous in hindsight. I'm just saying. Might be enough to throw off suspicion.
The no Night kill ticks me off, too, but at least we have a Day's information to go off of and analyze. And Inziladun's not dead, which is good... I honestly didn't think that there would be such a huge pile-on!
Pitch, I'm probably going to go after you a bit toMorrow. Maybe even vote. Just warning you.
My own gut feeling for my situation is that Green isn't going to let go of her gut feeling for me. Maybe Lommy will, maybe Eomer...
There's nothing I can do, though, except continue being myself. Hopefully toMorrow people will have reread through everything and let their opinions settle... I was seriously going off gut there myself!

FW: Well, I feel sheepish.

I'll admit I rushed in to my vote to try to save Mnemo. No one's commented on it in the thread, but I realize it was a gamble that could have (and still could) cost us two wolves instead of the one. Especially since it was effectively my only post of real substance/significance.
No, your vote was fine, Bes. I mean, it had some reasoning behind it- following Zil, true, but you'll probably get a newbie pass on that. Mnemo only had two votes at that point, and those both pretty questionable ones... so it's hardly obvious you were trying to save her.
If anything, mine looks the worst, but I was in a position where I had to vote one of the leads or else make a throwaway vote... and a vote against Zil or Mnemo would have come out of the blue.

Does anyone else feel like Roa and Nogrod are both gifted, and trying to screw with our heads?
*shrugs* Maybe... but they usually do come to blows. It's something to bear in mind, though.
My current guess is that the gifteds are Boro + Mac or Nogrod, most likely the latter. That was quite an extreme reaction to the way people were questioning Boro, and I must admit it took me by surprise.
Nog's attack on Roa is interesting. Looks like the ordos' pms specified the number of wolves... but I'm really surprised at Nogrod, of all people, using such dodgy meta-reasoning. I feel the best-fit explanation is that he's looking at things through a "Boro is innocent" filter, so that Roa was already "suspicious" for having questioned him.

Gifted
Nerwen's analysis makes pretty good sense to me. Nog was hinting pretty hard that he had another reason he couldn't disclose as to why Roa was a wolf; I guess that's what he means about the "Boro is innocent filter".
The way they went about it, if that's the case, suggests that Nog would rather he get lynched than Boro. So I suppose the logical course would be to let that happen and then nightkill Boro as quick as we can? Or help that lynching happen if at all possible/safe.

FW: Well, I feel sheepish.

Bes, I was thinking the same thing you were. Once Lommy said they were in cahoots I was like, "Bingo!" In which case we'd need to get one or both of them immediately...
But at the same time I'm not so sure... I've seen Ordo Wars before (they're hilarious) and they have gotten this ridiculous in the past.
It's Nogrod and Roa. If they're the gifteds, they would indeed have needed to stage a quarrel just to look "normal"- but I feel that, with all the opportunities for scheming our Ranger and Hunter have, they wouldn't have used something as clumsy as Roa's "mistake" + Nogrod's meta-reasoning.
I'd certainly keep them both near the top of the hit-list, all the same.

P.S. If one of us gets lynched toMorrow, is it considered Fenris or not?
Probably not... interesting point.
~Nerwolf.

FW: Gifted

The way they went about it, if that's the case, suggests that Nog would rather he get lynched than Boro.
Which- if it is those two- would make him the Hunter to Boro's Ranger... but that's getting ahead of ourselves.

So I suppose the logical course would be to let that happen and then nightkill Boro as quick as we can? Or help that lynching happen if at all possible/safe.
Generally, it's best to keep out of the lynch of a gifted if you possibly can. For the moment, since we can't kill anyone, let's just make a "most likely gifteds" list:
Nogrod, Roa, Boro, Mac. There.
In answer to your other question, a "Fenris Wolf" is one who gets lynched on Day One.
By the way- check out the admin thread. Legate is going crazy trying to make up his mind whether it was Mac or Zil who failed to get lynched.
~Nerwolf.

For tomorrow

Pitch, I'm probably going to go after you a bit toMorrow. Maybe even vote. Just warning you.
Do, by all means. But based on what: my vote (which could speak against me, given that I generally prefer to stay out of bandwagons) - or general performance, being 'too agreeable', too non-controversial, that kind of stuff? Just so I'm prepared.
I'm considering whether to back off Mac toMorrow or not. His defense against the points Zil and I made against him might well have convinced me if I were innocent, or at least make me waver.
Speaking of Zil, agree it's good he's still alive, he makes such a good pseudo-wolf - though I still don't quite see where the votes against him came from (apart from yours, and Mac's who voted to save himself). It's funny how often I find myself in one corner with him, whatever his role. Similar playing style? Makes it hard for me to go after him, in any case.
'x-ed' with several of your PMs, which I just saw.

Re: Gifted

Nogrod, Roa, Boro, Mac. There.
I'd make that Nog, Boro, Mac, Roa, because I can well imagine Roa reacting the same way to Nog's attack if she's an ordo.
Sorry, it's bedtime for me, but I'll pop in again in about 9-10 hours, and then again 3 hours or so before DL. Hope my PM box won't be overflowing when I wake up (I'll clear it now).
Good night,
Pitchwolf

FW: For tomorrow

I'm considering whether to back off Mac toMorrow or not. His defense against the points Zil and I made against him might well have convinced me if I were innocent, or at least make me waver
Take care how you do it... Nogrod, for one, is seeing everything as "suspicious back-pedalling".

Speaking of Zil, agree it's good he's still alive, he makes such a good pseudo-wolf - though I still don't quite see where the votes against him came from (apart from yours, and Mac's who voted to save himself). It's funny how often I find myself in one corner with him, whatever his role. Similar playing style? Makes it hard for me to go after him, in any case.
No, you leave Zil- others are going after him anyway.
Now I just want to say: disregard my reasoning on Nogrod being a gifted. I wasn't thinking clearly. I just realized he very probably isn't, based on my original point about his reasons for suspecting Roa- if he knows what's in the ordos' pms, he must be an ordo.
In which case his behaviour is quite extraordinary...

FW: Gifted

I'd make that Nog, Boro, Mac, Roa, because I can well imagine Roa reacting the same way to Nog's attack if she's an ordo.
Sorry, it's bedtime for me, but I'll pop in again in about 9-10 hours, and then again 3 hours or so before DL. Hope my PM box won't be overflowing when I wake up (I'll clear it now).
Good night,
Pitchwolf
I wasn't putting them in order. Note what I said about Nogrod, too- he's probably not gifted, unless I'm completely misinterpreting the meta-reasoning thing. Which I could be, at that.
-Bes, remember not to let your inbox get full.

Re: For tomorrow

Do, by all means. But based on what: my vote (which could speak against me, given that I generally prefer to stay out of bandwagons) - or general performance, being 'too agreeable', too non-controversial, that kind of stuff? Just so I'm prepared.
I'm considering whether to back off Mac toMorrow or not. His defense against the points Zil and I made against him might well have convinced me if I were innocent, or at least make me waver.
Speaking of Zil, agree it's good he's still alive, he makes such a good pseudo-wolf - though I still don't quite see where the votes against him came from (apart from yours, and Mac's who voted to save himself). It's funny how often I find myself in one corner with him, whatever his role. Similar playing style? Makes it hard for me to go after him, in any case.
'x-ed' with several of your PMs, which I just saw.
Well, as I was reading through the thread a lot of the things you were saying just seemed to be "tense wolf." Which means absolutely nothing, because part of that was me seeing things through my knowledgeable night eyes. But generally I dislike people who seem to have little to say in their actual posts, especially those who have the reputation to be louder, but just ride on the coattails of the current action. (Which is definitely what I was doing later yesterDay... I blame it on the latter half of the day being during my classes; it's too hard to focus!)
At any rate it seems that both you and Inzil just give me "bad vibes" at some point. I'm going to be looking more into overall meta-ish playing styles than anything else. I'll also have to look into Mac as I'd basically put him on hold and I'm kind of curious now as to what everyone saw in him.
BTW, Day!me is convinced for now that Roa and Nog are the gifteds, which is why I kept on laying off them.

Nog & Roa

Now I just want to say: disregard my reasoning on Nogrod being a gifted. I wasn't thinking clearly. I just realized he very probably isn't, based on my original point about his reasons for suspecting Roa- if he knows what's in the ordos' pms, he must be an ordo.
In which case his behaviour is quite extraordinary...
Indeed. If he's an ordo and thinks Roa can't be, based on the PMs, how can he be so convinced she's a wolf? Why not even consider she might be gifted?
Unless he thinks Boro's gifted and Roa wouldn't have pounced on him if she were, too. But being an ordo, he couldn't know for certain about either. So why is he so convinced of his case?
Very puzzling.

I know... but I've been trying to think up some kind of strategem that they could be using as a pair of gifteds, and nothing really works. I mean, say it's a trap and Gifted!Nogrod's hoping to get the wolves to give themselves away by saying they, too, got an "ordo" pm mentioning four wolves when the "ordo" pms said nothing of the kind. Problem: he couldn't know that. And if he guessed right- that is, the ordo pms don't really give the number- he'd just make the real ordos think he was a wolf!
Besides, I think a gifted would be unlikely to make Roa's mistake. I'm not saying rule them out, mind you, just that I don't share Mnemo's conviction about them.
More generally, we shouldn't get locked into the idea that it has to be any of the four we've been talking about. It is likely enough that at least one gifted has managed to lie low, more or less. It could be Lommy or Brinn or Loslote*, or perhaps [b]Nienna[/B- who seemed to be trying to trying to save Mac yesterDay.
I also wouldn't overlook Zil, who might indeed be a classic lupine-looking gifted. I'd say we can rule out Zil + Mac, though.
~Nerwolf.
*Prophetic!

[Pitchwife]

: ( Mnemo : (
The first kill is one of our own. Arg.
So, pretty much every one of us is openly suspected at this point. I dunno if that's normal or not. Now what?

Re: : ( Mnemo : (

The first kill is one of our own. Arg.
So, pretty much every one of us is openly suspected at this point. I dunno if that's normal or not. Now what?
Yes, it's a pity about Mnemo. I'm sorry I contributed to it, but she said it was OK with her, and she really was my best choice.
Suspicion - looks like I'm getting most of it at the moment, let's see what comes toMorrow. Being attacked because I'm 'too agreeable' or 'too much either/or' is enough of a nuisance when I'm innocent, I don't take it any better when I've actually got something to hide.
To continue from last Night, I'd say we can safely forget the whole Nog and/or Roa = Gifted theory. Any new ideas on who the Gifted may be (aside from Boro and/or Mac)? Or who else deserves to be our midNight snack?
(Only thing I can say for sure, Shasta's an ordo*; evidence in his long post about Nog & Roa yesterDay, where he referred to the ordo PMs.)
By the way, Bes, I also made the mistake to assume you were female - for some reason I can't stop thinking of you as 'Bessie'. Sorry 'bout that. As you can probably tell by now, I've got the same problem because of my nick.
So, are you two still awake?
Pitch
*Well, obviously not...Grrr!

FW: : ( Mnemo : (

The first kill is one of our own. Arg.
So, pretty much every one of us is openly suspected at this point. I dunno if that's normal or not. Now what?
Bes, each of us is suspected by a few people and thought innocent by others... which is fine, really... and you and I fall into more people's "innocent" or "unknown" categories. (You're doing well!) Pitch could be in a bit of trouble toMorrow. However, hopefully Mnemo's being a wolf will make him look better.
I'm sorry I had to turn on her, but she really stuck her own neck in the noose yesterDay. Weird. Wonder if she could have been the secret role- i.e. a kamikaze wolf? It's happened before.
The good thing is that various innocents look like they were trying to save her, and they've all been accusing each other. ToMorrow could be a lot of fun.

To continue from last Night, I'd say we can safely forget the whole Nog and/or Roa = Gifted theory. Any new ideas on who the Gifted may be (aside from Boro and/or Mac)? Or who else deserves to be our midNight snack?
(Only thing I can say for sure, Shasta's an ordo; evidence in his long post about Nog & Roa yesterDay, where he referred to the ordo PMs.)
Wilwa likewise.
As for who the gifteds are... well there's the people I mentioned last time, but I'll read through the last two Days and see if anyone jumps out at me.
If we get stuck, could just eat Shasta, as it would look like an attempt to frame me- and even if he doesn't have a role, his psychic powers could make things difficult.
Finally, Boro appears to think Sally has a role**... but knowing Boro, that might mean he thinks nothing of the kind, and it's an attempt to lure the wolves away from the real gifteds. He does that kind of thing.
~Nerwolf.
**Surprise - she had!

I hope you don't mind if I leave the heavy thinking to you on that front. My instinct is to get rid of Mac or Boro, but the first would probably make me very suspicious right now, and the second one I second guess based on what you've just said. :-/
Alternatively, I don't know if it's a good strategy, but we could maybe kill Morsul and see if the crowd decides to kill Mac for it.
Here the PMs Nerwen has posted above start. Two more after she'd gone to sleep that Night:

Re: Thoughts about Mac (and toMorrow)
Yep, I can do that***, I'll be around till Daybreak and after.
You're probably right that I'm overestimating the danger. Nog , for one, may just have been putting me through one of his little pressure tests. Still, I need to be careful - but rather not too careful, like I've seemed up to now.
Eomer has occurred to me too - it would be kinda nice to fulfil sally's wish in her after-DL post.
Zil would actually be a nice move - if we're lucky and he turns out to be Gifted, some people who were out to lynch him before could be in a bit of trouble. And as I've quite stubbornly defended him against Mac on Day 1, it might do me good.
Good night, Nerwen!
Bes, are you still around? Any comments?
Pitch
(***i.e.send in the Night kill)

Just to let you know
Since you're probably both asleep now, and since Nerwen said it's OK with her, I've decided to spare Mac toNight - for sporting reasons, as Nerwen said - and go for Zil.
If Zil turns out ordo, however, we should definitely get rid of Mac next Night.
I just realized I have to do some shopping before DL, so I'm going to send in the kill now; hope you have no objections, Bes.
Good luck for toMorrow!
Pitch

FW: Night Kill

We, the Wolves aboard this ship, have in Nightly conclave decided that our snack toNight will be
Inziladun.
Pitchwolf (in proxy for Beswolf and Nerwolf)
I was actually at work, on a day I didn't expect to be, but Ihave no problems with this. Yummy Inzil.

Night 4

Re: Ranger

I take it that a Ranger doesn't die when they protect someone? If that's not what everyone's implying, then I don't see the flaw in my lottie argument. Well, other than knowing for certain she's not a wolf, but they don't know that.
No, the Ranger doesn't die protecting someone - unless the wolves have already spotted them and decide to kill them instead of the Seer, as they can't protect themselves at the same time as another person.
Of course they can't know for certain she's not a wolf, but every innocent in their right senses will be willing to take the chance (unless there's a counter-reveal) - especially as this is her only Night to dream.
Bad thing is, even if she doesn't dream one of us, she'll give them a known innocent (in addition to herself). So your impulse to get rid of her was of course correct, but it wouldn't have worked - and believe me, if I'd known how to do it better, I'd have tried.
Sorry again - I really had to occasionally remind myself 'remember you're a wolf' toDay. Problem is, when I'm too conscious of my wolvery, I end up as being too hesitant, too balanced, too agreeable etc. So toDay I tried to play as much like an innocent as I could and keep our interests in the back of my mind at the same time. It's an uneasy balance.
Anyway, I've really got to get some RL things done now. See you.
Pitch


Re: More on the Nightkill

I've been thinking about this some more. I think not Shasta- if he doesn't get dreamed, he'll have his work cut out defending himself toMorrow, and if he does... well, it won't prove anything.
Meanwhile, if we kill him and Lottie dreams, say, Wilwa, we'd have lost two lynch baits instead of one.
How about killing Brinn or Greenie? They're in the hard-to lynch category, and they might be anything.
I have to go now. I'll try to be back before the DL- if I'm not, one of you will have to make the final decision and send in the kill. Sorry about this, but I have a bit of a timezone problem here ...
For toMorrow, I think we should lie low and say nuffin' until we know whether Lottie dreamed one of us. Or at least, say as little as possible. This is not just to avoid incriminating each other- if one of us makes a case against a villager and then is exposed as a wolf, it would be a waste.
What is extremely good- about the only thing that's really gone our way, in fact- is that the late votes last Night look just like a wicked wolvish conspiracy. It could be Days before the village gets that mess sorted out.
Back later (hopefully).
~Nerwolf.
Brinn or Greenie? Either would be good, although Greenie would leave a trail to me, as she's been keeping stubbornly suspecting me. Unless I'm overlooking something (as I said, I haven't had time to re-read the thread) Brinn had no strong feelings about any of us, so she might be a good choice.
Are you two around, and what do you say?
Pitch
DL approaching...
Hey, is either of you there? I suppose we should send in the kill a little before DL, to give Legate time to finish the narration, so...??
If I don't hear from you till, let's say, a quarter to DL, I'll decide to go for Brinn.
Pitch
Once more about Brinn
Sorry, I totally forgot Brinn voted Nerwen on Day 1. She hasn't followed it up since, as far as I see, but her death would give Shasta new ammunition for his Nerwen-hunt. Not a good idea?
And didn't I say I'd prefer not to make a lonely decision again...
Pitch
PMing in chunks...
Or could we make it look like Shasta-wolf killed Brinn to frame Nerwen?
Or could anybody kill Greenie to frame me?
Arrgh!
Pitch
Night Kill 2
After that chunk of raw meat last Night, we'd like some salad. Or meal toNight shall be
A Little Green
Pitchwolf in proxy

Re: Night Kill 2

After that chunk of raw meat last Night, we'd like some salad. Or meal toNight shall be
A Little Green
Pitchwolf in proxy
So it happened. Looking forward to see how you are going to proceed from there, alas, mess happens. By the way - I thought about just noting this to you just in case - I have quoted your PM to Greenie (the thing about salad) as we have been at one place when I was posting for the DL, but Lommy was close there and I am not sure if she didn't overhear and would not remember the content of the PM, so that's just so if you had the idea to use a similar phrasing on the thread (an unlikely possibility, but it occured to me to just to mention it to be on the safe side). Otherwise I of course didn't say anything about your identity or anything like that, just the salad joke...

So, otherwise, good luck for toDay and even fur the future (ha, I'm leaving the typo there ) for you and all your pack.

[Inziladun]

That was a nice bit of wolf-on-wolf between you and Mnemo, Pitch. Mnemo was so over-the-top, outrageously creepy Day 2 it seemed too easy that she would be a wolf!
And you did me a bit of a favour by doing me in, as I ended up being a lot busier than I thought I'd be with RL stuff. :p

[satansaloser2005]

That was a nice bit of wolf-on-wolf between you and Mnemo, Pitch. Mnemo was so over-the-top, outrageously creepy Day 2 it seemed too easy that she would be a wolf!

Yes, but believe me when I say that she's telling the truth; she always acts like that. :p:rolleyes:

[the phantom]

Oh no Legate, you blew my cover before checking first to see if the participants wished to physically harm anyone behind the "false start"! According to Mnemo your slip has cost me my life. :eek:

Well, since I have little time left, I had better explain. The idea sprang forth suddenly out of a soil of Day 1 complaints- "I hate Day 1", "Day 1s are annoying", "Day 1 is a shot in the dark", "Day 1 is random", etc etc...

People often use completely different voting reasoning on Day 1. There have been no deaths or votes, and so it is rare that someone actually looks worthy of a Day 1 vote, particularly if you must vote early in the Day. And so it is logical to use criteria other than suspicion. There is, for instance, the infamous noob-pass that I and others extend to players that we have never played with. Additionally there is the died-early-last-time pass that a player is granted if he was an unfortunate early victim in the previous game. Some grant a noisy-player pass, figuring that leaving a loud player alive will make for a more talkative game, with the added bonus that due to his words you will form an opinion of him later, while the same cannot be said of "submarine" type players. And of course there are friend/roomate/relative passes that may be given out, or in fact work in reverse (e.g. it'd be easier to play this game without this individual that I'm around a lot looking over my shoulder).

I was thinking about these problems one day and it hit me- the answer was quite simple. If you don't wish for Day 1 random voting, Day 1 free passes, and Day 1 non suspicion based voting to impact the game, just don't have a Day 1! Duh. Skip to Day 2.

Well sure, but how? That's impossible. You technically have to have a Day 1. The game must have a starting day, right?

Solution- have a Day 1 without consequences.

Problem- but if people know that there are not consequences on Day 1, they will act out of character and there will be no reason for them to try and accomplish anything, and the day will simply be wasted and Day 2 will become Day 1.

Solution- have a Day 1 without consequences but don't warn anyone.

Now, naturally that would leave open the possibility of disaster (the Seer is about to be "lynched" on the fake Day 1 and reveals), so included in the PMs to the gifteds/WWs there must be a rule forbidding any sort of Day 1 reveal or hinting. But obviously you cannot reveal the true reason, so you must lie to them. Make up a reason. Tell them, perhaps, that you wish to see Day 1 truly be in the spirit of Day 1- a random lynch with no guidance or revealing. Any reason you tell them is fine, so long as they don't know the true reason.

Enter Legate. I saw that he was on the Mod list, and I thought he was the sort who would appreciate the thought behind the idea, be interested in the results such a stunt would yield, was bold enough to try something untested, and clever enough to pull it off. My thanks to you, sir, for breathing life into the dream.

And now in the interest of self preservation I am off to purchase a duck-gun.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Oh no Legate, you blew my cover before checking first to see if the participants wished to physically harm anyone behind the "false start"! According to Mnemo your slip has cost me my life. :eek:

That was intentional. I had to act fast so that I don't get harmed myself. That's how the business works.

Anyway, I think the idea itself - speaking from my point of view as a Mod - was good enough and it indeed was something that sort of coped with the "Day 1s are no good"-issue (I must say I liked it the most when I was reading these comments on the thread too and thinking "just you wait..."), on the other hand, it sort of created Day 1 all over again. At the beginning of Day 2, I was wondering if people would not actually consider it boring that we have Day 1 again (even though with some more information and stuff).

But I just wonder if there would be any other way to bypass the "random Day 1" issue - as this one idea is basically impossible to re-create.

[Mnemosyne]

Aha! A phantom sighting! *dons camo*

And Legate, thank you for outing this miscreant, as going over to Europe to hunt you down and kill you would have been much, much more expensive... :smokin:

As far as "fixing Day Ones" goes, the easiest way to deal with the problem in my book is to have rules sufficiently different that people can discuss new-fangled hare-brained schemes and thus 1). get some serious discussion done and 2). have some concrete means of judging other people.

In a regular game, the closest way one can deal with such a situation is for one person to do something completely ridiculous, like vote on a grudge or go after someone for making a slip as to the number of wolves, to give everyone else stuff to discuss. But I can't think of any ways to repeat what you just did, unless someone announces "we can never do this again!" and then does it again.

[satansaloser2005]

And now in the interest of self preservation I am off to purchase a duck-gun.

And this is why Mnemo keeps me around....:Merisu:


Good idea though; the reasoning behind it makes quite a bit of sense, as Day Ones do suck yet are necessary. Love it. :)

[Mnemosyne]

And this is why Mnemo keeps me around....

*luffs her human shield*

[satansaloser2005]

*luffs her human shield*

*snuggles her duckling*

Or you could just turn sideways. That would work too. :rolleyes:

[Nogrod]

That was fantastic to watch, especially after Bes informed on who the wolves were. I couldn't help laughing over and over again, especially at Nog, with "So and so must be a wolf! There is no other explanation!" Oh, sweetie, you make me giggle. ;)
Heh, most of the times I'm pretty unsure about things like everyone else... up to being as to-and-fro as Lommy! :rolleyes:

And now I was such confident with a few people who I ended up having wrong. :(

Well, that's the game. And that's part of why it is so entertaining time after time.

Congrats to the wolves and thanks for the great narrative-idea & nice gamemechanics Legate!

I'm still in a crazy hurry with all the schoolwork and have no time to make any comments and thanks I'd like to. But I'll come back to that as soon as I have even an half an hour...

[Pitchwife]

Legate (and phantom ): I think the 'fake Day 1' was a nice idea, actually - and making it an unforeseen Special Event probably was the only way to have it work and avoid the tedium of two regular Day 1's. It sucked to miss the Night kill, of course, and while the lack of a Day 1 lynch was in a way balanced or compensated by the additional sacrifice later, we didn't get a 2 kill Night - but hey, we won nevertheless, so what. In general, I quite like the idea of Special Events - it adds a lot to the suspense of the game when you don't know what sort of mischief your Mod is going to come up with next, and the secret Birthday Dreamer role worked in the same way.
All in all, kudos for creative and sovereign modding! As for the narrations, that story rocked - especially the final revelation. If not for fear of spoiling the end, you might as well have called this "At the Mountains of Thangorodrim" - a nice literary crossover! (And I'm somewhat relieved that my initial apprehension that Father Christmas and his friend the Polar Bear would show up at some point and play a perverted role was proven unjustified...)

Now for all you poor innocents - you started off fairly well, getting rid of Mnemo and me within four Days, but then you just had a sore run of bad luck. I found it quite educational to watch, from a double outside perspective (dead, i.e. uninvolved, and wolf, i.e. knowing exactly who was innocent and who wasn't), how you went on suspecting and lynching each other for all the wrong reasons, while sporadic flares of suspicion towards the real wolves were for some reason never followed up. I mean, take for example Boro's self-sacrifice vote - didn't that literally scream "frustrated ordo despairing of his wits and the corner he's manoeuvered himself into"? I found that so totally understandable, and so totally failed to see how anybody could construe any wolvish motives behind it. But I'm of course quite aware that I can only say all this with the benefit of knowledge, and as an innocent I'd have been as clueless as any of you.
Nog's Birthday Dreamer theory was a real chestnut (do I have to say I cheered at my screen when I read it?) - but the funny thing is, it might have been true! (and by Draugluin's molars, wouldn't that have been cool for us?) And once the theory was out there, it's quite logical you had to test it some way. Best intentions and logical choices furthering the triumph of evil - there's something bordering on the tragical in all this.
For the Gifted team, sally and Shasta - you did very well staying under our wolvish radar until close to the end, and your plan about using the sacrifice/lynch was quite ingenious; did you work that out together, or was it wholly your idea, sally? And Shasta, you impressed me - I hadn't seen you so involved and active in the one or two games we'd played together before, but this time I realized that you can be a player to be feared when you put your mind to it.
Everybody else - you all did your best, but **** happens. Better luck next time!

[satansaloser2005]

Now for all you poor innocents - you started off fairly well, getting rid of Mnemo and me within four Days, but then you just had a sore run of bad luck. I found it quite educational to watch, from a double outside perspective (dead, i.e. uninvolved, and wolf, i.e. knowing exactly who was innocent and who wasn't), how you went on suspecting and lynching each other for all the wrong reasons, while sporadic flares of suspicion towards the real wolves were for some reason never followed up. I mean, take for example Boro's self-sacrifice vote - didn't that literally scream "frustrated ordo despairing of his wits and the corner he's manoeuvered himself into"? I found that so totally understandable, and so totally failed to see how anybody could construe any wolvish motives behind it. But I'm of course quite aware that I can only say all this with the benefit of knowledge, and as an innocent I'd have been as clueless as any of you.
Nog's Birthday Dreamer theory was a real chestnut (do I have to say I cheered at my screen when I read it?) - but the funny thing is, it might have been true! (and by Draugluin's molars, wouldn't that have been cool for us?) And once the theory was out there, it's quite logical you had to test it some way. Best intentions and logical choices furthering the triumph of evil - there's something bordering on the tragical in all this.

To be honest I was fuming at Lottie and Boro's deaths. I also thought Boro was just an ordo but couldn't see why he would do that, at least from a game perspective. Lottie, on the other hand, I wasn't completely convinced on. Of course my real feeling was that she was being honest and maybe hiding something else (for instance....erm, yeah I have nothing) but I didn't think she was a cursed or anything of that nature. If she'd have been around too long I may have been convinced to kill her, but I couldnt' see the sense in doing it when we had much better candidates around. Like Lommie. :rolleyes:

For the Gifted team, sally and Shasta - you did very well staying under our wolvish radar until close to the end, and your plan about using the sacrifice/lynch was quite ingenious; did you work that out together, or was it wholly your idea, sally? And Shasta, you impressed me - I hadn't seen you so involved and active in the one or two games we'd played together before, but this time I realized that you can be a player to be feared when you put your mind to it.


^_^

And to be honest I just thought up the sacrifice thing when I got online that afternoon. I remember telling Mnemo (I was with her at the time) that it would probably get me killed, just like my other crazy plans in this game. I'm glad it worked out, though; after the death that Night I was a bit thrown and more than ready to try anything, especially since I was sure I was next (hence my insane bluffing and obvious "Oh hello I'm the ranger" stuff toward the end of the Day). At least we managed to get Bes-wolf out of the way, because I'm pretty sure he would have gotten through clean. (Although, for the record, I wanted to tell Shasta to switch the order of his list but never remembered to do it. I wanted to know about Nog so bad, especially since I was convinced about Bes.) But alas, what's done is done and I think we did our best. Didn't we, precious? ;)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

For the Gifted team, sally and Shasta - you did very well staying under our wolvish radar until close to the end, and your plan about using the sacrifice/lynch was quite ingenious; did you work that out together, or was it wholly your idea, sally?

Funnily enough, we came up with the same idea pretty much independently. :p

Edit: Ha! X'ed with Sally.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

And Legate, thank you for outing this miscreant, as going over to Europe to hunt you down and kill you would have been much, much more expensive... :smokin:
You are welcome ;)

All in all, kudos for creative and sovereign modding! As for the narrations, that story rocked - especially the final revelation. If not for fear of spoiling the end, you might as well have called this "At the Mountains of Thangorodrim" - a nice literary crossover!
Actually, my initial idea for the name of the game - when I have first thought of that, which was, like, well about an year ago already (although back then the idea of the game was far different, but at least plot-wise the basic idea was the same), I have thought of naming the game "At the Mountains of Angband". Nonetheless, later I decided otherwise. Partially it was possibly sort of to "liberate" people from thinking in the terms of where they are and to allow it to be also a bit about the arctic atmosphere itself, and also to liberate myself from sort of being pressed by the subconscious expectation of "so shouldn't we already see some real Angbandish stuff?", and partially it was just my incureable over-cryptical (and possibly annoying) thinking (known well from the Quiz Room) which makes me think the way "everybody must get the chance to figure out things by themselves, because if they do, they are happier that way as they can feel proud that they have figured it out by themselves". That is, not that it would be usually like that - but still I keep doing it, and I think it may be a sort of self-reflection, as myself, I prefer following things step-by-step and not being outright told the answer.

Now for all you poor innocents - you started off fairly well, getting rid of Mnemo and me within four Days, but then you just had a sore run of bad luck. I found it quite educational to watch, from a double outside perspective (dead, i.e. uninvolved, and wolf, i.e. knowing exactly who was innocent and who wasn't), how you went on suspecting and lynching each other for all the wrong reasons, while sporadic flares of suspicion towards the real wolves were for some reason never followed up.
Nog's Birthday Dreamer theory was a real chestnut (do I have to say I cheered at my screen when I read it?) - but the funny thing is, it might have been true! (and by Draugluin's molars, wouldn't that have been cool for us?) And once the theory was out there, it's quite logical you had to test it some way. Best intentions and logical choices furthering the triumph of evil - there's something bordering on the tragical in all this.
Oh yes, I really pitied especially Nog at that time - because it would have been such a great discovery, if only it was true. And I must second what you said about innocents: very often it just went so that the village turned to some direction, which all too often meant lynching an innocent. The worst thing about that is (at least I got that impression from reading people's posts, but maybe some innocents can give a different opinion) that people still were not completely happy with what they were doing, but they did it nonetheless - with the kind of thinking "maybe my doubts are betraying me and he/she is indeed a Wolf", where in the end it turned out that the person they lynched was innocent anyway.

[Roa_Aoife]

See, that's why I only ever vote for the person I find most suspicious, regardless of their chances of getting lynched.

[Bes]

Roa: By that token, shouldn't you have waited a little longer to vote on day 1? Just sayyin...

[Roa_Aoife]

Nope, with the knowledge that Nogrod was lying with his seer hints and knowing for certain that I was a wolf, I was convinced of his guilt, because I couldn't see why an innocent would lie about that. I knew it was most likely that no one else would vote for him, but I voted him anyways.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Good game all! My hunches were usually way off but nothing new there. Congratulations to the victors!

A general point: I found that there were too many chatty posts, and to a slightly lesser degree, too many long posts. It makes participation a bit trying at times, wading through so much.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

A general point: I found that there were too many chatty posts, and to a slightly lesser degree, too many long posts. It makes participation a bit trying at times, wading through so much.

Well, I feel like I should oppose at least the former statement (not sure about the latter, as I am myself known to write long posts - although I also dislike reading overlong posts, yet this time it didn't seem too out of hand to me). Personally I was very pleased with the "level of chattiness" in the game, as I believe it was almost nonexistant. It has been a (bad, in my opinion) habit in some of the latter games I have been playing that the chatty-level was sometimes excessive (and it is indeed annoying to have to read through a page of nothing if you return to the computer half an hour before DL and need to read the whole day and you cannot sort out what is important and what not - that is why I mentioned it also in the rules), but here, with the exception of perhaps the last days (where there haven't been too many posts, anyway), I think it was pretty reasonable.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

In that case, Legate, some of these last few games may have turned players insane. ;) I have not played in a while so I wouldn't know.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

In that case, Legate, some of these last few games may have turned players insane. ;) I have not played in a while so I wouldn't know.

To be clear, I have not been playing in all of the latter games either, but still concerning games during the course of the last year or so, sometimes it was like that. You just need to play more, Eomer. :p

[Thinlómien]

I actually still think lynching Lottie made sense. But not combined with all the other mislynches. :rolleyes: :D

And if I may oppose - I don't think the fake Day1 was such a brilliant idea. No, it wasn't bad, but it wasn't brilliant either. It puts the wolves slightly to a disadvantage compared to normal, and also the village is more confused than normal on Day2 due to no kill. And you still don't avoid the feeling of dislike towards Day1s. ;)

And I can't see why the idea can't be used again. Maybe just without the directions for the gifted and wolves.

The wolves might have been at slight disadvantage because the powerful ranger-hunter duo, the fake Day&Night1 and the birthday dreamer, but then again, they had quite an advantage in having no seer in the game. It's not only that they can't be revealed, but it's also that their kills are suddenly far more traceless. So I think it was quite a fair set up.

Thanks everybody for the game, especially Legate of course- I loved your narrations.

[Nogrod]

Nope, with the knowledge that Nogrod was lying with his seer hints and knowing for certain that I was a wolf, I was convinced of his guilt, because I couldn't see why an innocent would lie about that.Time for revelations... *tat-ta-dat-taa!*

The PM that Legate sent to us innocents read something like "you will have to get rid of the four wolves". Anyway, it stated clearly the number of wolves = four.

So every innocent knew exactly how many wolves there were as it was so clearly stated in the PM where one learned one's role of being innocent.

Every innocent knew exactly the number of wolves. So no seer hints there but reasons beoynd any reasonable doubt that you Roa were a wolf!

I was more astonished on why you weren't lynched like on votes 20-1.

How was it you missed it?

So what "seer-hints"?

[Loslote]

Time for revelations... *tat-ta-dat-taa!*

The PM that Legate sent to us innocents read something like "you will have to get rid of the four wolves". Anyway, it stated clearly the number of wolves = four.

So every innocent knew exactly how many wolves there were as it was so clearly stated in the PM where one learned one's role of being innocent.

Every innocent knew exactly the number of wolves. So no seer hints there but reasons beoynd any reasonable doubt that you Roa were a wolf!

So what "seer-hints"?

:eek: Ohhh...

I didn't get that pm, either. So I thought that post of yours was really weird. The 'seer-hints' that I saw were where you said that every innocent could see it...and I didn't think of the pm. :rolleyes:

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

The PM that Legate sent to us innocents read something like "you will have to get rid of the four wolves". Anyway, it stated clearly the number of wolves = four.

Indeed. After the fuss around it started to happen, I saw that I made a mistake - I should not have sent any PMs like that, I should have probably just sent "you are an innocent" and that's it.

Nevertheless, maybe this is a good time to further discourage people from using meta-game reasoning (including PMs) from their suspicions, as due to this experience I have just realised how serious problem it can become in certain circumstances. You can be wrong with in-game suspicion, but with meta-game stuff it tends to be a lot trickier as you feel a lot more "sure". As one can see, it really does not work that way and the possibilities are endless. (In this case, Roa, as she told me, simply was too busy that she read just the first words and did not pay attention to the rest of the PM, as she learned everything she wanted to know from the "You are an ordinary innocent" first sentence. Also, there was no telling whether I did not send different PMs to some ordos - which actually happened too, in this case, even though quite randomly.)

So I further discourage people from using meta-game reasoning. It can awfully backfire. I have experience with using such reasoning, like, twice or thrice for myself, I saw/read/thought something which seemed to point to some directions, I tried to ignore it, but then, you who have ever been in such a situation probably know that it just can't be totally ignored - so I sort of used it to back my thoughts, and lo, what happened? I was wrong in all cases.

I think the best way to approach such things (at least how I tend to do it) is a) do not use it as grounds for suspicion, b) IF you use it, then use it as support for your already existing suspicion of somebody (e.g. okay, I was suspecting Roa, and now this is one more reason for it, but not starting suspecting her out of the blue because of it) - that's just a sensible approach, c) and mainly, IF you use it, keep it to yourself and do not post it on the thread. It should not be brought into the game itself. Nobody can prevent you from using it as reasoning for yourself, but it's your business and you will also suffer the consequences yourself if you are wrong. But dragging it into the open is not good - and if you have to explain your suspicion of somebody to others, you should have other reasons which you could mention instead of mentioning the meta-game stuff (see b) ). And anyway, of course in general, it is simply not really how WW should be played - the game's about something different.

[Nerwen]

:eek: Ohhh...

I didn't get that pm, either. So I thought that post of yours was really weird. The 'seer-hints' that I saw were where you said that every innocent could see it...and I didn't think of the pm. :rolleyes:

Well I worked it out– I hoped we'd be able to pick a gifted or two from their failure to understand what the heck Nogrod was talking about. Unfortunately for us, Shasta, it seems, also guessed correctly!

[Pitchwife]

Well I worked it out– I hoped we'd be able to pick a gifted or two from their failure to understand what the heck Nogrod was talking about. Unfortunately for us, Shasta, it seems, also guessed correctly!
Indeed - or did the Ranger and Hunter PMs also specify the number of wolves? Lottie's apparently didn't.
Actually, Nog, I still don't quite get how you could feel so sure about Roa being a wolf based on the PM reasoning. Even assuming she hadn't got the same message as the ordos, she might still have been Gifted - and being an ordo yourself, you had no way of knowing what was in their PMs. As you can see from the protocols of our Nightly conclaves, the matter puzzled us quite a bit.

they had quite an advantage in having no seer in the game. It's not only that they can't be revealed, but it's also that their kills are suddenly far more traceless.
What do you mean, No seer in the game? What do you mean, We couldn't be revealed? *growl*:D

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Well exactly - that's just one more reason for what I have said. So in other words, simply put: do not lay your trust in meta-game reasoning, it is never 100% foolproof, and even if you see your roommate posting a PM titled "ToNight's Kill", it may as well be so that he/she is having a funny PM title and posting a Seer's dream, or talking to a random non-playing member, excitedly describing what he/she thinks the Wolves will do toNight... :)

[Mnemosyne]

Well exactly - that's just one more reason for what I have said. So in other words, simply put: do not lay your trust in meta-game reasoning, it is never 100% foolproof, and even if you see your roommate posting a PM titled "ToNight's Kill", it may as well be so that he/she is having a funny PM title and posting a Seer's dream, or talking to a random non-playing member, excitedly describing what he/she thinks the Wolves will do toNight... :)

I am now officially naming ALL Werewolf PMs "ToNight's Kill."

[satansaloser2005]

Well that explains a lot. :rolleyes:

EDIT: x'd with Mnemo

[Nogrod]

Actually, Nog, I still don't quite get how you could feel so sure about Roa being a wolf based on the PM reasoning. Even assuming she hadn't got the same message as the ordos, she might still have been Gifted - and being an ordo yourself, you had no way of knowing what was in their PMs.This is my first post concerning the matter...

I agree with Mac- a gifted that gets themselves lynched deserves their fate. The only people who have a reason to try to spot gifteds are the wolves. The rest of us are supposed to be wolf spotting.
Okay, looking at that, I'll brave to voice this concern my wolf spotting has brought me to face.

Roa said...
Yes *gasp* it's wolves. There are three of them.
That was an intentional "mistake". It just has to be.

So Roa tried to mislead us about her knowledge of the situation - and I can't see a reason what a gifted Roa would gain from that against the wolves at Nights as they would not start thinking she's someone they can afford to ignore from that. But a wolf-Roa might gain the edge in a possible tight voting if people thought she was not up to the situation... So you see, I was pretty much aware of that possibility but Roa herself gave me the license to test it... :rolleyes:


But what comes to meta-reasoning as such... well that's a more complicated issue.

First of all I think it is unavoidable from personal perspective. If you notice something that is a meta-reason to either suspect someone or not, then you notice it, and you can not "delete" it from your mind.

Like if I'm an ordo and receive a PM from the mod where it clearly says we have four wolves and then someone comes making a statement there are only three wolves - well she has not received the same PM I have, ergo a wolf (or a gifted...). Well it was wrong - like anything one interpretes from the actual discussion might be right or wrong...

Pay heed also to what followed: it seemed to me both Boro and Eomer noticed it - at least they talked in a round-about way but it seemed they understood what I was saying (I was aware though they might be just cunning wolves making a good guess so I didn't trust them completely). Then came Sally pointing almost head-on what I was saying only followed by Shasta who unhappily revealed the whole thing mentioning the PM (and making me basically 100% sure he was an innocent - I never defended you on that ground Shasta!). Wilwa only declared she understood the point after Shasta's "revelation" concerning the grounds of it, so I didn't let her off the hook as she might have been a wolf who just realised what was the fuzz all about and tried to make herself look better... Heh, just like any suspicion voiced, recalled, argued on, speculated over with gazillion different interpretive possibilities etc... :)

I had no intention to make it an issue. I was happy to notice Roa might be a wolf already on D1 and to be the one to spot it. I actually thought I could leave it at that... but it was to go otherwise... and I soon regretted my choice to voice it in the first place. And I think I now stand warned about it seeing how it took off.

But the real problem I think is the question of where to draw the line?

For example after playing with same people a number of games one starts automatically to create patterns of their behaviour in different roles. That can be misleading to be sure (like the different amount of time people have at their hands etc. - although many people notify others of their RL rushes), but it's something one can't just wipe out from one's understanding of any given situation. Like some people play very lazily if they have no role but activate when they have one (*coughSleepy Rangercough*), or some are aggressive suspecters when innocent and more smooth when wolves, some are more laid back when innocents but a bit nervous when wolves etc... And these things have been used as arguments, well basically in every game on someone. And that is meta-gaming as well.

I'm not sure what to say.

I think the old ruling that quotes from PM's or things like that should not be produced as evidence in the actual game-thread in any situation, is a good piece of advice. Also knowing something about people's relations in RL should not be argued openly on (didn't we lynch a wolf in one game years ago when someone noticed that the mod had written the first narration of his own death and making his RL-lover kill him with a rose or something?). After one especially epic fail (also years ago) I think the mods have gotten more careful with genders in their narrations and no one's doing that any more (the mod revealed the gender of the last living wolf and the village lynched the wolf...).

Basically anything based on meta-reasons should not be argued explicitly.

But drawing lessons from this one I must say I will myself consider it a few times before I even hint at that kind reason being around to be found.

[Nogrod]

Heh... I forgot to make the defence of why some meta-reasons like the one voiced in this game could be fair... (unless "quoted" or opened in any other way)

If a wolf makes a conscious "error" regarding the number of wolves s/he makes her/himself look very good by the innocents - in a meta-reason level!

Like it or not, but that kind of clumsiness, especially from a seasoned and extremely sharp player, basically whitewashes that person in the back of our heads; not because of what s/he has said in the thread as to suspect or defend, but because of what kind of meta-game impression s/he gives of her/him. :confused:

And there must be a way to fight against that kind of tactics as well...

[The Saucepan Man]

For example after playing with same people a number of games one starts automatically to create patterns of their behaviour in different roles.As I recall, outright discussion of past games was originally frowned upon. Of course, inventive Werewolvers managed to circumvent the rule by referring to the 'Tome of Werewolf Lore', recalling tales of past villages plagued by Werewolves and relating stories of their ancestors who died at the hands of fellow players' ancestors ... :rolleyes: :D

I am not a fan of meta-game reasoning of any type whatsoever. In my view, the in-game discussion should relate solely to events that have happened and things that have been said in the game itself. Now, I am sure that I have been guilty myself on occasion, because it is tempting, and I certainly agree that one cannot exclude meta-reasoning from one's mind. But I would be in favour of a stricter approach by mods, and greater self-discipline from players, in this respect.

As regards the incident in question, I must say that, following the game, I immediately picked up on Roa's reference to the number of Wolves as a possible intentional error to make herself look less Wolfish. I think that there was a perfectly respectable case to put as to her being suspicious on this basis, even without knowledge of what the PMs to ordos said, although I perhaps would not have pushed it quite as strongly as Nog did.

Btw, great game Legate and all. I really enjoyed following it and loved the various twists and turns. I must admit to rooting for the Wolves after Pitch's death, as I always tend to support the underdog. :)

[Morsul the Dark]

Well then SPAM I'm glad I gave you a win :rolleyes:...