Lalaith
10-02-2010, 04:11 AM
I recently came across something called the Bechdel test, which is related to how women are portrayed in films. The test is simple:
1. Are there at least two named female characters?
2. Do these female characters ever talk to each other?
3. Do they talk about something other than men?
On the website there is a long list of recent films that either pass or fail: all three in the LotR trilogy fail on question two. The website acknowledges that there are strong female characters that shape the plot, but they don't interact.
Now, I have posted this in the Books thread because it got me thinking about if the actual books would also pass the test.
The Hobbit obviously fails on question one. Lord of the Rings - well I got quite excited about Ioreth and her kinswoman, who do have a conversation, but unfortunately the kinswoman doesn't have a name so it doesn't count. I can't think of any other occasion - can anyone else?
Then I got thinking about Tolkien's other works. I am pretty sure there are conversations recorded between Melian and Morwen, and Morwen and Nienor?
Also, I'm thinking there must have been dialogue between Ancalimë and Erendis? I don't have all my books to hand so I can't check.
Anyway, I then got to thinking about the role of women in the ancient quest narratives and heroic epics that inspired Tolkien. Interestingly, a lot of them DO pass the test as long as you are flexible about question three. Women talk to each other, sometimes about magic but mostly about vengeance in relation to the menfolk in their families, but don't I think that is necessarily the kind of conversations about men that the Bechdel test refers to.
1. Are there at least two named female characters?
2. Do these female characters ever talk to each other?
3. Do they talk about something other than men?
On the website there is a long list of recent films that either pass or fail: all three in the LotR trilogy fail on question two. The website acknowledges that there are strong female characters that shape the plot, but they don't interact.
Now, I have posted this in the Books thread because it got me thinking about if the actual books would also pass the test.
The Hobbit obviously fails on question one. Lord of the Rings - well I got quite excited about Ioreth and her kinswoman, who do have a conversation, but unfortunately the kinswoman doesn't have a name so it doesn't count. I can't think of any other occasion - can anyone else?
Then I got thinking about Tolkien's other works. I am pretty sure there are conversations recorded between Melian and Morwen, and Morwen and Nienor?
Also, I'm thinking there must have been dialogue between Ancalimë and Erendis? I don't have all my books to hand so I can't check.
Anyway, I then got to thinking about the role of women in the ancient quest narratives and heroic epics that inspired Tolkien. Interestingly, a lot of them DO pass the test as long as you are flexible about question three. Women talk to each other, sometimes about magic but mostly about vengeance in relation to the menfolk in their families, but don't I think that is necessarily the kind of conversations about men that the Bechdel test refers to.