Have you seen.......?

[littlemanpoet]

In the final moments of LotR, Frodo, Bilbo and the Elves are riding west from the Shire to the Grey Havens.

Though they rode through the midst of the Shire all the evening and all the night, none saw them pass, save the wild creatures; or here and there some wanderer in the dark who saw a swift shimmer under the trees, or a light and shadow flowing through the grass as the Moon went westward.

Have you seen any swift shimmers under the trees? Or a light and shadow flowing through the grass as the Moon went westward? Or something just as "on the edge of Faerie"? Did you recognize it? Did it occur to you that it coudl be Elves? Yes, even here in the Seventh Age. If you have had such an experience, post an account of it here. If not yet, start looking. I will....

[ September 29, 2002: Message edited by: littlemanpoet ]

[Birdland]

Well, after my cat, Kittyhawk, passed on, I would see her out of the corner of my eye in my garden.

Perhaps ol' Kittyhawk was an Elf. An Elf who would bite toes.

[red]

You meant to post this in Middle Earth Mayhem, right? I mean, it is obviously (I hope) a joke.

[Nar]

LMP: I have had several experiences of catching something out of the corner of my eye... The most recent one was a yellow dog running across the road under my wheels late at night while I was driving: I swerved; nothing there. My strongest in-the-woods feeling was more bad then magical, I'm afraid. I walked up into a square little hilltop clearing with my cats (yep, I walk my cats... don't wanna hear it!) and had an overpowering feeling that this was a bad place; that something, some little living thing, had been killed there. That feeling I still can't explain. I still get it, too, if I go there; but perhaps it's by association now.

Birdland, once again, as so many times before, smilies/biggrin.gif . I have heard that Eol the dark elf bit toes on occasion, gently, and only by special request. Apparently that was one of the few things Aredhel liked about him. "It was not said that Aredhel was wholly unwilling, nor that her life in Nan Elmoth was hateful to her for many years..." Eol slacked off later in their attachment. If only he had kept up his kittenish attentions, it might have averted the fall of Gondolin!

[littlemanpoet]

Sorry to disappoint, red, but I am quite serious. Who knows what is real that we cannot see?

[Gliniel]

Well ... have any of you ever been to Gettysburg (Pennsylvania)? I know it doesn't have anything to do with LotR BUT if you want to see some "swift shimmers under the trees" or "shadows flowing through the grass," that's the best place to find them. I'm pretty sure they're not Elves, but ( smilies/cool.gif ) you never know! (j/p) And judging from my own experience, littlemanpoet, there's plenty real that we cannot see. I used to live in a haunted house (no joke!!!) and I'll vouch for the spirits anyday!

[Susan Delgado]

Back home there's a certain hill I can't climb because I become overcome by fear.

(Completely serious) It feels like the trees are watching me. It's a very creepy feeling.

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

When I was little I would always look for unicorns whenever we drove by some woods. I would always, in my mind, catch a shimmer or the light reflecting off of a horn. It was a beautiful image.

I tell ya, I wouldn'tmind running across an elf nowadays, because they would understand me more than a lot of people today do. I like to believe in things that we cannot see and to believe that the world may have some magic in it behind the concrete walls and pavement. I always get a deep feeling when I am surrounded by nature... this is why I chose to live by the lake.

[Tirned Tinnu]

More than once in my posts about autumn I have mentioned seeing the spirits that once inhabited the woods on Long Island, where I live. It's harder to find them now, with all the nasty sodium-lights they've installed here. When we had white steet lights it seemed more favorable to the shades. Indians and farmers stride through our woods, Hessians and Revolutionary War soldiers seem to visit the shores off The Sound.

Worst ever for mischievious fairy-spirits was Ireland's tall stretches of pine forest, where only Monkshood (known to enchanters) is sturdy enough to grow. There, camping overnight, I was scared nearly witless by the never ceasing whispers in the branches,twigs falling and wind holwing thru the boughs. I do not relish camping in pine-forests to this day!

[red]

Who knows what is real that we cannot see?I know what is not real and that is J.R.R. Tolkien's stories and characters. It is something we sane folk recognize as fiction.

[burrahobbit]

Sorry to disappoint, red, but I am quite serious. Who knows what is real that we cannot see?

I know what is real. Not elves.

[Bill Ferny]

Once I saw a beautiful woman clothed in star light... oh, wait... drug induced.

Oh, there was one time that I saw a cloud of green mist that glowed and... oh, wait... drug induced.

There was this time that I was starring at the moon and it turned into a skull and came out of the sky... oh, wait... drug induced.

Oh, yeah! I know! When I was sixteen I saw a ghost... crap! Drug induced.

Well, there was this time... grrrrrr... drug induced too.

Umm... well, guess not. smilies/frown.gif

[Evisse the Blue]

I know what is real. Not elves.
I would beg to differ, burrahobbit.
Next, you'll go around saying there are no such things as aliens and Santa Claus smilies/tongue.gif

[Evisse the Blue]

Btw, check out my signature, guys and gals.
What d'you suppose it implies??

[littlemanpoet]

Thanks, red and burrahobbit, for the much needed corrective. Now that it is clear that I am insane and off my rocker, let us continue with this in the full understanding that all such sightings are indeed hallucinations. I for one will be happy to keep hallucinating.
On a more serious note, this obviously taps into rather strong opinions. I am reminded of the words of the Marshwiggle in Lewis' "The Silver Chair" about preferring the lie to the truth if the truth is indeed so paltry. Anyway, I'll keep looking for the shifting lights.
And better luck next time, Bill Furny.
I love your signature, Evisse. It fits perfectly.

[Elenna]

Dearest red and burrahobbit,

It is kind of sad to see people who think that because they haven't seen something, it does not exist.

Not to say that I'm running around screaming "Elves are real! Believe, all ye people," but it would be nice if a bit of "willing suspension of disbelief" could be attempted. What do you say?

And lmp, this is a great idea for a thread. Once I heard somebody singing when I was taking a night hike in what I thought was a deserted patch of woods. Now, all you cynical folk will say it was only a boy scout troup or whatever, but it was a magical moment.

[Maikadilwen]

Well, whatever it is that is roaming around in my apartment and making my poor cat freak out from time to time (and I'm not referring to myself) I'm sure it's not an elf. Or at least I don't believe it to be unless it's quite a mean one. But it's there and it loves to play with my hair and throw things at me. Go figure... smilies/rolleyes.gif

And I'm just as sane as everybody else. Well... at least I don't hear the voices anymore.... smilies/wink.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

[ September 30, 2002: Message edited by: Maikadilwen ]

[Birdland]

Mine wasn't a hallucination.

[Eol]

It was mentioned once here at the Downs and personal knowledge that Scandavian beliefs put elves as the spirits of the dead. Or you can go to the british isle where they are spirits of trees or sprites who bring ill or good to people. Sometimes they are melovolent and sometimes kind.

If an elf existed, I would not want to enteract with one unless on good terms. The scottish do not call some the Unsellie for nothing.

[Evisse the Blue]

I'm bringing back one of my fave all time threads: Do we live in ME? (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=001160&p=2#000064)because it deals with the the idea of belief - backed by evidence or not.

[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: Evisse the Blue ]

[Ransom]

Thought I saw one once....turned out to be bunch of little kids playing pranks. Chased away with bats and a broomstick.

Saw one when playing paintball....but elves don't scream or surrender when shot. smilies/smile.gif

Saw another on shotgun range at BSA camp....had to drop everything and search for mysterious figure. Said mysterious figure recieved many a curse and threat.

Now I wanna see a banshee....that would be interesting. smilies/smile.gif

Elenna-If you heard cursing, it would be a Boy Scout troop. Trust me. smilies/smile.gif

[ October 01, 2002: Message edited by: Ransom ]

[Lhundulinwen]

Um, just to clarify, I am Christian (as was Tolkien) and of the Lutheran denomination (know about Martin Luther? Yah, same guy.) and have never done drugs (been drunk, etc.). Part of our church's beliefs is "I believe in all things visible and invisible". Not saying there is elves, not saying there isn't. But I do believe 100% that there are things that we can't see or comprehend. But that's just me. :)

[Laitoste]

Really, Lhundulinwen? I'm Lutheran too, and I didn't know that. Maybe that's because I didn't learn anything in Confirmation class...

Anyway, I've never really had an experience like that. Some of my relatives claim that there used to be a ghost in my grandparents' old farmhouse, but it's gone now. My cousin tried to convince me that there were fairies in my grandparents' fields, but then he started saying there was a werewolf, and it wasn't a full moon, so I didn't believe him. I would almost like to see something "weird", but I would be terrified.

[Kransha]

I've seen elves in dreams. Does that count?

Honestly, I do respect these ideals. I do not believe I would ever physically see elves, but there are occasions when I believe that, because of Tolkein's influence on me, I see different aspects of his books relating to my mood or an event in my life. It's not actually seen by me, of course, but thinking I see them is very helpful.

[Knight of Gondor]

I think this topic is a testament to why the Lord of the Rings films are so popular. Everyone wants to believe in that something, that little magical Something that exists, and Lord of the Rings unites that Something with our world so convincingly, some of us can't hardly help but believe.

Do I believe Elves exist? No, unfortuately. But I do believe in the spiritual realm, that which exists outside of ourselves, because I too am a Christian. And permit me to assure you that there is Something outside of ourselves, a beauty likeunto that of the Elves, but far greater. Ha ha, PM me if you have any comments to me about that. :)

[Alphaelin]

Interesting idea, LMP. While I can't say I've ever seen elves, I did see an unexplained gray figure in our house when I was a kid. I thought I was imagining things until my dog growled at it. To be honest, it was quite frightening - if I see shimmery shadows I either try to ignore them or shine a flashlight in that direction.

For a more cheerful idea, I used to fancy that the two trees in our front yard whispered to each other when the wind rustled their leaves. (They were very nice trees!)

[HerenIstarion]

They were very nice trees!

Are they gone? :(

I always had a similar feeling in case of pine trees (I happen to lie under those in summer - in the place I usually go for my vacations. It's not far from the sea shore, up to hundred yeards, no more, soo the sea adds up to the effect)

[Alphaelin]

HerenIstarion: Are they gone?

:) No, the trees are still in front of my parents' old house - I just haven't lived there for 20 years, and my mom & dad don't live there anymore either. I know what you mean about pine trees - they are pretty noisy when the wind moves through them. It must have something to do with having needles instead of leaves.

The idea of the 'talking trees' is a fancy I picked up after reading LOTR - it was the closest I could come to meeting an Ent!

[drigel]

LITTLEMAN POET CONGRADULATIONS!
I see by this thread that YOU GET IT.
lol thank you - you may pick up your prize at the 2nd tree on the left. Keep it up!

[mark12_30]

lmp-- yeah, but usually it takes me by surprise. I'd use the word "numinous" and attribute it to activity from the Kingdom of heaven; experiences with the kingdom of darkness are far less pleasant but more difficult to shake.

Continuing on in this pleasant vein of discussion, I do think it's easier to sense the presence of evil troops (eg, wraiths and barrow-wights) than the presence of God's troops.

With regard to the Lutheran issue of believing in the unseen-- it sounds to me like you might be referring to the nicene Creed, which is worded slightly differently? The opening to the Nicene Creed (also used by Tolkien's catholic church and numerous christian denominations) goes like this:
I believe in one God, the Father Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth
and of all things visible and invisible...

...meaning that God created all things, those that are visible, and those that are invisible. Hence, there are things that are invisible. But according to the creed the focus of the faith is in the creator, not in the Things invisible.

From a scriptural standpoint, my great-great-grandfather pointed out that when when the disciples mistakenly thought Jesus was a ghost, Jesus did NOT say, don't be silly, there's no such thing. He said, Touch me, and see that I am flesh and bone like you.

.....And yeah, I've always felt that elves bordered on the angelic.

[drigel]

as the prof put it, elves are:

Humankind in its purest form

we had that once, long ago

[Finwe]

You can believe what you want to believe. As for me, I find comfort in those little shimmers underneath the trees. There is a thick wood close by my house, and sometimes, to relax myself, I take long walks in it. While I'm walking underneath those trees, I sometimes see little glimmers out of the corner of my eyes. I'm not sure if they are people, but I do know that they are there. I would like to believe that they are Elves, and I am fairly sure that they are. I think that the spirits of the Elves can be found in each and every wood, meadow, glen, and waterfall in this world. We just need to have the sight with which to see them.

[lore_master]

i reciently converted to druidism, and one of our beliefs is that ther is an "otherworld" if you will. every once and a while there will be an opening in the otherworld and a few spirits and such will cross that path and travel to the mortal realm. one catch though, they can not touch the ground or they will become dust, so that is why you see most ghosts and spirits 'fly"

but on a non-religious note, i believed in ghosts and other "faire" things long before i converted to druidism

[Frodo Baggins]

What do you mean you want to see a Banshee, Ransom? Do you not know that if you see a Banshee you are going to die very soon? And if you hear one but do not see it it means a family member willl die soon??

Actually I kid, our days are determined by got not strange looking women running around in the woods.


Even though in the back of my mind I know elves cannot exist, its still fun to imagine that they do. And you can imagine and believe anything you want and no one can stop you. Frankly, if mankind were not blessed with imagination, it would be a dreary existance. And I still continue to search the woods under the moonlight and starlight for the Eldar.

[HerenIstarion]

...my mind I know elves cannot exist, its still fun to imagine that they do...

Consider the following reasoning: human mind operates inside the universe/nature. therefore, anything it can imagine can not pass the boundaries of said universe/nature. Teking the opposite, one may assume that things which may not exist outside universe/nautre may exist inside universe/nature. Therefore, elves human mind is capable of imagining may exist. may in the case implies that they either exist or not. Which gives you 0.5 probability of their existence, i.e. it is not such a bad chance, you know... :smokin:

[Lhundulinwen]

Wow! I'm one of the very few Lutherans around where I live, so I'm suprised other people know about our beliefs. I'm really shortsighted I guess. I didn't know other denominations use the Nicene Creed! I have learned something today. Thank you. Yes, that is what I was getting at. And I really 100% believe that there is a lot LOT bigger force outside of ourselves. (God, angels, demons, devil- GOD being the greastest of all). I doubt that there are elves, or have ever been, but I wasn't there at creation, so, I can't say with any athority. :cool:
P.S. I just remeber that little bit of Conformation class because I had it last year. :D

[Estelyn Telcontar]

Here's another old thread that has resurfaced from the depths of the Books forum! Now we are placing topics like this, which are not actually discussions of Tolkien's books, on the Novices and Newcomers forum, so I'm moving this thread there.

[Meela]

I've seen elves, faeries, ghosts, witches, moving trees (what are ents known as outside Tolkien?), and all sorts of creatures of the forest, whatever they may be.

I can't recall any "swift shimmers" as such, but definitely movements or flashes. There are still a few elves left in the forests.

[Lyta_Underhill]

I always love discussions like this one, and I feel compelled to throw in the fact that I have seen Ents, about six years ago, in a wood outside Atlanta. I wasn't looking for them and it had been about 7 years since I had read LOTR. It had quite faded from my conscious brain at the time and I remember no sparks that would have brought it back to the forefront; but there was no other way I could describe what I saw.

Now I live on 120 acres of woodland and hills, and I hear the trees talk all the time (can't understand them, though). My backyard hackberry used to talk all the time, but unfortunately, it was struck by lightning and high winds and fell in two pieces last year. The cedars in the cemetery are constantly babbling; I am not sure if they're trying to tell me something or not, but I always say "Hi!" when I pass. I'm sure there are those who would pass off tree sounds as the play of wind in swaying branches or the glints in the forest as mere reflections of sunlight, but it is more satisfying to look at them without the filter of rationalization. It is more interesting to leave the analytical functions behind and simply see things without judging them. Why did I judge my visitors to be Ents? Well, I didn't, until I tried to describe them to someone else after the fact. Therein lies one of the eternal problems of Man--how to relate experience in words.

Cheers!
Lyta

[Alphaelin]

Lyta,

Ents in the Deep South! Maybe I can meet one at last!!

Now I'm wondering what Entish sounds like with a Southern accent :)

[Lush]

The trees, for some reason, only get really talkative around me when I'm coming back late from some shady shindig.

Hardy har har.

Actually, I seriously do believe that the trees are able to communicate, and have moods, just like any other living beings. The Druids must have had something right.

Or maybe I really am that shady in combination with having read a lot of Tolkien.

[Theron Bugtussle]

Southern Ents would sound like, "Hoom hom! I ain't gonna be hasty...turn round, I want a look at y'all. Hey, y'all sho' 'nuff look like orc young'uns to me!"

This is kind of a wierd topic to me, but it reminded me of something I read about the Lord's Triumphal Entry into Jerusalem.

Luke 19: 37-40 And when he was come nigh, even now at the descent of the mount of Olives, the whole multitude of the disciples began to rejoice and praise God with a loud voice for all the mighty works that they had seen; Saying, Blessed be the King that cometh in the name of the Lord: peace in heaven, and glory in the highest.

And some of the Pharisees from among the multitude said unto him, Master, rebuke thy disciples.

And he answered and said unto them, I tell you that, if these should hold their peace, the stones would immediately cry out. [emphasis added]

[Elianna]

Ahhhh...sweet oblivion to the real world. How I love it. And dread when I must return to my non-existant "life".

When I feel this way I too often remember Puddleglum's words:
Suppose we have only dreamed, or made up, all those things - trees and grass and sun and moon and stars and Aslan himself...Then all I can say is that, in that case, the made-up things seem a good deal more important than the real ones...And that's a funny thing, when you think about it. We're just babies making up a game if you're right. But four babies playing a game can make a play-world that licks your real world hollow. That's why I'm going to stand by the play-world. I'm on Aslan's side even if there isn't any Aslan to lead it.

The play-world does lick the real world hollow, and the made-up things do seem so much more important than the real things...

How can you miss something you've never seen? I do so long for Elves, and it's another of Lewis' arguments that God wouldn't have made us with a longing that can't be fulfilled.

Personally, I've resently decided that elves are angels. And in one of Paul's episle's he says that people have entertained, like given food and/or lodging to, angels without knowing it.

I still cling to the hope that someday I'll see my elf. Who knows, maybe my guardian angel has pointy ears...

One time I was wondering around a patch of trees near my house and came upon a hole through some bushes that looked so magical, so entrancing. My heart started beating harder. I tried so hard to stifle the hope that it was some gateway to Middle-earth. Obviously, since I'm writing this it didn't work, but still...
...Still round the corner there may wait a hidden door or secret gate
And though I pass them by today tomorrow I may come this way
And take the hidden pathes that run West of the Moon, East of the Sun...

[Laitoste]

Exactly Elianna! You hit the nail on the head! Since we apparently *can't* have a world with elves, hobbits, etc., might as well imagine it. And I'd rather have those imaginings than real life any day. Although I'm still holding out for a secret passageway myself :rolleyes:

[littlemanpoet]

Here's a little something with which to stir this pot..... ;)

"Better Clear it with the Elves First" (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/13/international/europe/13elves.html?8hpib)

What do you make of that, doubters? :smokin:

[davem]

Here's a little something with which to stir this pot..... ;)

"Better Clear it with the Elves First" (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/13/international/europe/13elves.html?8hpib)

What do you make of that, doubters? :smokin:

Seems perfectly rational to me. I've seen a few Elves (or Faeries) myself, at least one of which I wouldn't want to get on the wrong side of.

Still, theres no harm in them...... (as we're traditionally supposed to say)

[Encaitare]

Thanks for upping this thread, lmp! Interesting article... now feel like I want to visit Iceland.

It's interesting to see that a lot of us do believe in things we can't explain or even see. Sometimes I see things out of the corner of my eye -- this might be the product of an overactive imagination, but I don't think so.

[Lalwendë]

I saw a Boggart in my house not very long ago. He was crouching on the top of a set of shelves in the bedroom as I approached the door. He saw me and quickly slipped down to the floor and went to hide. He was only little, probably only two foot tall, and was a skinny, old looking little Boggart, who seemed harmless, and I didn't feel surprised to see him there.

There was one of the creatures near my parents' house, possibly homeless as his old house had been knocked down. This was a half-timbered hall where my Grandmother was a servant; she said every night the Boggart used to fill up any buckets left out by the well.

The oddest thing I experienced, which had little to do with creatures or beings from the underworld, was that as my grandfather died, he knocked on the window of my parents' house, which he had been born in. My father was with him as he died, and when we later told him about the knock on the window he calmly said that it was Grandad, and that it always happened when somebody died in the family. :eek:

[Encaitare]

Actually, I seriously do believe that the trees are able to communicate, and have moods, just like any other living beings. The Druids must have had something right.

Today I arrived home and there were some workmen for a tree-service there, the kind that prunes the trees for you or (gasp) removes them. There was an odd breeze stirring and shaking up the branches of the trees as I got out of the car, and I got the distinct feeling that they were very displeased...

[Alphaelin]

Poor trees! They must have thought they were going to get chopped down.

Did you hear anything along the lines of "Down with the tree killer!"?

I will confess that when I have to prune branches on our two trees, I try to reassure them that they will feel much better without a lot of smaller branches to get broken in storms.

Btw, I enjoyed the first line of your last post, Encaitare! It gave me a mental picture of jean-clad workmen trying to explain to Undomiel & Elessar that they have a work order to trim up the White Tree. :)

[Dimturiel]

Once I have been in a camping trip in the mountains and there was one night when the sky was literally covered with stars and there was more silver up there than blue. I had a strange feeling then, as if I had become aware of something being there with us, someting ancient and wise. The feeling lasted only a few seconds and I have totally forgotten about it, until today, when I started reading this thread. Now that may have been only my imaginaton-it runs a little wild, sometimes ;)-but-who knows?- I might have felt the last of the Firstborn near me.