TIG XCIII - Betrayal at Henneth Annûn (Game thread)

[Pitchwife]

Ithilien was baking in the early summer afternoon sun. A brooding silence lay on the land, hardly a leaf stirring in the hot still air. The only sounds to be heard were an occasional soft rustling of cloth and, very rarely, a faint creaking of leather.

Pithwivion was crouching behind a laurel bush, his bow on his knee, arrow nocked. Next to him were Anborn and Lord Faramir, and on the young captain's other side Mablung and Damrod. Around and behind them, five score Rangers lay in cover, masked and hooded, their green and brown cloaks blending perfectly into the brushwood, bows at hand and waiting patiently.

Suddenly an owl hooted somewhere in the distance. An unusual sound at this time of day, but Pithwivion knew this was no coincidence.

"Our scouts have sighted their vanguard," he whispered to Lord Faramir. The captain nodded.

They kept watching the road, the long road that led up from the far South to the Morannon; the road on which more and more Haradrim came northwards these days, troup after troup of Southron soldiers in thrall to Sauron; they all went into Mordor, gathering for the onslaught on the free West that had to come sooner or later.
After a while a cloud of smoke appeared in the distance; approaching, it gradually dissolved into a long file of dark-skinned warriors in black, gold and scarlet, marching five abreast towards the Rangers' hiding spot.

"On my sign," said Faramir in a whisper that carried to the ears of the last Ranger in the last row. When the first ranks of Southerners had already passed them, he raised a hand. "Draw!" Five score and four Rangers rose like one man and drew their bowstrings tight. The hand fell. "Loose!"

A hail of arrows came down on the Haradrim, who fell dead by the dozens; the rest was for a moment too much surprised to take cover, and it looked like another volley or two would finish more than half of them before they could think of offering resistence. But all of a sudden the Ranger on the other side of Anborn gave a cry and fell forward with an arrow in his back, and then another and another one, and within a few heartbeats a dozen Rangers lay dead, struck down by black Orc arrows from behind.

Pithwivion whirled around and whipped out his sword just in time to parry a blow by an Orc scimitar that would have done for him. Hordes of Orcs were storming at them through the brushwood, big black Uruks of Mordor with longbows, swords and axes. And now the Southerners, having recovered from their surprise, hurried to join the fray from the other side.

"This is hopeless, my lord!" he shouted to Faramir. "They have us between hammer and anvil!"

Faramir, busy fending off an attacker himself, cried out: "Retreat! The day is lost! Retreat!" Anborn raised his horn and blew the retreat signal. They were hard pressed to win free of their thronging enemies, but at last they turned and ran.

This time, the Rangers of Ithilien had been outrangered.
________________________________________________

IT IS THE DAY BEFORE NIGHT ONE. DO NOT POST ON THIS THREAD YET, PLEASE.

[Pitchwife]

When Pithwivion stepped behind the curtain of the waterfall and into the cavern of the Rangers' refuge, one of the last couple of Rangers to return to Henneth Annûn, Faramir was already waiting for him, his face grey with grief.

"Were you followed?" he inquired.

"Likely we were at first," Pithwivion replied, "but we took great pains to efface our trail, and I defy any Orc to follow a Ranger of Ithilien where he does not wish to be followed. Sneaky they may be, but their woodcraft is no match to ours. I do not think there is any danger of them finding this place."

"They had no difficulty finding us at the road," Faramir objected. Pithwivion shook his head.

"No, that they had not; but if it please my lord, I would fain speak my mind on that with no ears listening but yours and mine. For now, how many have we lost?"

"A score and a dozen; more than a third of our company, unless you think that any of us are still out there."

Pithwivion shrugged. "There may be, but if so, I doubt that any will win back to this place now." A third of their company. That was a devastating blow. "Are any of our scouts among the missing?"

"All but one." Faramir looked his lieutenant in the eye. "Why do you ask?"

"If we may talk undisturbed, my lord?"

Faramir nodded and directed him to a recess of the great cavern which served as the captain's private chamber. When they were as alone as could be managed in the cramped refuge, the young prince turned to Pithwivion and said, "You think we were betrayed."

"Aye, my lord, that is indeed my thought. Do not blame yourself for what happened today. There is no way a random band of marauding Orcs could have sneaked up on us and caught us in our own ambush by mere chance. They knew of our plan in advance and were waiting for us, just like we were waiting for the Haradrim."

"The missing scouts?" Faramir suggested. "Do you think they were caught and gave us away under torture?"

"That may be," Pithwivion conceded, "but my heart tells me the traitors are still among us, where they may wreak more havoc."

Faramir's face was grim, but he nodded. "That is what I would think, if it were to be conceived of that any Men of Gondor should fall so low as to go over to the Enemy, except under dire duress. You and I have fought side by side with these men for many years and trusted them with our lives any number of times; I cannot think that any of them would betray their comrades, unless perhaps coerced by some evil spell."

"Now you have named it, my lord. Spells the Enemy has many, and cunning arts of deception. Who knows? Some of the men in this hall may only wear the faces of our comrades of many years, but hide another spirit behind them."

Faramir pondered this a long while. At last, he looked up at Pithwivion with a gleam of decision in his eyes. "You may be right; at least we have to consider the possibility. I shall speak of this to the men in the morning. Tonight, I shall pray the Lords of the West for guidance in this matter. What I wish you to do in the meantime is talk to our companions and observe if any of them behave otherwise than they were wont to. You have known the men long and are well liked by them; they will not fear to speak their minds to you unless they have some sinister reason not to."

"Gladly, my lord," Pithwivion replied. Faramir gave him a curt nod.

"And triple the watches. If this refuge is lost to the Enemy, our war against him in this part of the land is over. Dismissed."

* * *

Mablung and Damrod had witnessed their captain's private conversation with Pithwivion from a distance, and although they had not been able to catch any of the words spoken, they had known both Faramir and his lieutenant long enough to be able to read some of the gist from their miens. At the time they had only exchanged a telling glance, but later that night, when the other Rangers had fallen asleep, Damrod nudged his brother in arms, whose cot was next to his, and whispered: "So what do you think of this?"

"The same as you," Mablung whispered back. "That the Orcs did not happen on us by chance, but there is treachery afoot; at least the captain and old Pitch both think so."

"That is indeed what I think. And have you noticed the way Pitch has been talking to all the men? Looking for clues, I dare say. We shall hear about this on the morrow, mark my word."

"And what would you say that we should do about it?"

"What we have always done, these long years. We two at least know we can trust each other. Watch thou my back, I shall watch thine. Let us speek our minds freely to each other, but be on our guard with the others until we know better who is true and who is false."

Mablung gave no answer, and none was needed. These two had fought back to back long enough to understand each other without many words.
_______________________

IT IS NOW NIGHT 1. Black Númenóreans, start conspiring. Mablung and Damrod, you may talk in private. Faramir, send me your choice of dream. Everybody else, keep silent.

DEAD
Nobody yet.

ALIVE
Pitchwife (Mod)

Aganzir
A Little Green
Bom Tombadillo
Boromir88
Galadriel55
Glirdan
Inziladun
Loslote
Nogrod
Pomegranate
Rune Son of Bjarne
satansaloser2005
Shastanis Althreduin

[Pitchwife]

Faramir son of Denethor slept uneasily that Night. After several hours of tossing and turning on his cot, he awoke from troubled dreams to a dream of awakening. It seemed to him that a bright, but mild light was shining through the curtain of the waterfall into the rock chamber, and a distant but clear voice spoke to him out of the light:

Trust not the face that is smiling -
Inside an enemy dwells,
Disguisèd and beguiling
By craft and Morgul spells;
But signs you shall be given
And truth you shall be shown:
In dreams the mask shall be riven
And the traitors shall be known.

"What you fear is true," the voice continued. "Three men of your company have been slain secretly, their bodies hidden, and replaced with servants of the Enemy. Men of your own race they are, but long seduced to the worship of Sauron: Black Númenóreans, disciples in the dark arts of the Necromancer. By sorcery they have been disguised in the likeness of your slain comrades, and their aim is to eradicate the Rangers of Ithilien, so that Sauron's servants may roam freely between Anduin and the Ephel Dúath. But do not despair! Your prayer has been heard, and you shall not be unaided in your need. Each Night you may ask for a dream about one of your comrades, and it shall be revealed to you whether that one be true or false. And by this you shall know that you have dreamt the truth: in death the glamour that is on them will fade, and their faces revert to their own features; and you will find each of them marked with the sign of the Lidless Eye."

* * *


Pithwivion had spent most of what was left of the evening talking with the other Rangers, as Lord Faramir had requested. All of them had been concerned and alarmed at the happenings of the day and the loss of so many comrades, and not a few had voiced suspicion of treachery; but none had stricken him as in mien or manner of speech unlike themselves. He realized it would not be easy to find the Enemy's spies this way.

After a few scant hours of sleep, he rose in the small hours of the Night when it was his turn to keep the watch and took his post on a high platform of rock overlooking the waterfall and the Forbidden Pool. The Ranger whom he relieved reported nothing amiss; apparently the Orcs had indeed lost their traces, and their refuge was still safe.

The Night was quiet and peaceful enough. There was no moon in the sky, but the stars shone clearly, their white light glittering on the water deep below him.

He had only sat there for about half an hour when suddenly he heard soft steps on the rock behind him, and turning round, he saw one of his comrades approaching him.

"What do you want?" Pithwivion demanded. "You should be sleeping; it is way too early for you to relieve me."

"Relieve you is indeed what we have come to do," said the other one. Two more figures appeared out of the dark and stepped up, one to each side of the first. "Relieve you of a task that lies too heavy on your shoulders."

"Did you think your nosing around would go unnoticed?" asked one of the newcomers in a mocking tone. "We thought we might better be rid of you before you become too much of a nuisance."

Pithwivion surged to his feet, his hand on the hilt of his sword. "It is you!" he cried. "You three are the spies of the Enemy!"

"Enemy only to those who oppose His rightful claim to rule all Middle-Earth," said the third. "The Great Eye looks kindly on those who bow to Him and worship Him. When our work here is done, He will reward us with riches beyond your wildest dreams."

Pithwivion drew his sword. The naked steel shone cold in the starlight. "Not while I am alive!"

"That can be amended," said the first with a sardonic smile and took a threatening step towards him. Pithwivion hewed at him, but the Black Númenórean lifted his hand and spoke a Word of Power that shattered the blade to splinters and made Pithwivion's tongue cleave to the roof of his mouth.

"And now," said the sorcerer, still smiling, "we shall see just how far we can push you."

The three moved closer and closer. Helpless and mute, Pithwivion retreated step by step until he stood on the brink of the flat rock. He couldn't even scream when they pushed him over and he fell, deep down to the jagged rocks in the shallow water...
_______________________________

IT IS STILL NIGHT 1. DO NOT POST HERE YET, PLEASE.

DEAD
Pitchwife (Mod) - pushed over the brink Night 1

ALIVE
Aganzir
A Little Green
Bom Tombadillo
Boromir88
Galadriel55
Glirdan
Inziladun
Loslote
Nogrod
Pomegranate
Rune Son of Bjarne
satansaloser2005
Shastanis Althreduin

[Pitchwife]

Faramir was woken by Anborn in the early dawn.

"Come quickly, lord," the elder Ranger urged him breathlessly. "Evil is afoot!"

Anborn led him to a ledge of rock overlooking the pool and pointed downward. On the rocks near the shore of the Forbidden Pool lay the broken body of Pithwivion.

"I saw him lying down there when I came to relieve him and did not find him on his post," said Anborn. "I would say there is little chance he misstepped and fell by himself, my lord."

Faramir shook his head. "No, he did not. He knew every stick and stone around this place; he would not have slipped and fallen by mistake." His brow furrowed. "Rouse the men and have them bring his body up to the cavern. When you are done, come to me; I need to speak to you."

* * *


A little later, Anborn met Faramir in the captain's private chamber and reported that Pithwivion's corpse had been laid out in the great rock cavern.

"The men are very upset about this, my lord," he added. "Pithwivion was well beloved by many of them."

"They have every reason to be upset", said Faramir grimly. "Sit down and listen."

He told Anborn everything he and Pithwivion had talked about the evening before, and also about the vision that had come to him in his dream.

"If I had any doubt about it before, I see clearly now," he concluded. "There are indeed servants of the Enemy among us, and they will not shrink back from Nightly murder. This must not happen again, Anborn! You at least I know I can trust, for you have served long under me and always offered good advice; if a spy of Sauron can wear your mask well enough to deceive me, we are doomed anyway. Therefore I would ask this of you: that you mark well what goes on amongst our company, and try to guess as best you can whom the traitors would fain do away with; and every Night you shall stand guard next to him whom you think the Black Númenóreans would most likely slay next, and protect his life. Will you do that for me?"

"That I will, my lord," replied Anborn gravely, "and gladly."

Faramir nodded to him. "I thank you. Now assemble the men; I must speak to them."

* * *


When Faramir appeared before the gathered Rangers, his face was dark and stern as they had never seen it before.

"One or the other of you," he began, "may already have surmised that our encounter with the Orcs yesterday was no chance meeting. You are right. They knew where to find us, for there are servants of the Enemy among us spying for them." He proceeded to tell them what the voice in his dream had said to him. "If any of you would dismiss the vision I have been granted as a figment of my imagination, the Nightly murder of Pithwivion should be enough to make you think again. I will not suffer this, and neither should you! For now, we have a dead comrade to lay to rest; but when he has been buried, we shall all assemble here again, and none of us shall leave this refuge until this matter has been cleared up and the traitors have been exposed and put to death.

"This Day, and every following Day, we shall hold a trial and attempt as best we can to unmask the servants of Sauron, and those we deem most suspicious shall be executed. And I urge every one of you to speak your mind and not hold back; for those who will keep aloof and will not help us by sharing their opinions shall be held to be in league with the Enemy and will be dealt with harshly."
________________________________

IT IS NOW DAY 1. Cease all private conversations and let the trial begin!

DEAD
Pitchwife (Mod) - pushed over the edge Night 1

ALIVE
Aganzir
A Little Green
Bom Tombadillo
Boromir88
Galadriel55
Glirdan
Inziladun
Loslote
Nogrod
Pomegranate
Rune Son of Bjarne
satansaloser2005
Shastanis Althreduin

[Galadriel55]

Let us now procede to burying our dear dead comrade and friend Pithwivion! May he find rest in the Halls of Mandos... oh wait, he's a Man. Never mind.

But let us all solemnly swear to avenge Pithwivion and aid our gallant Captain Faramir in finding and destroying the foul traitorous BNs! I shall be... no, I am the first to do so. Who's with me?

[satansaloser2005]

But let us all solemnly swear to avenge Pithwivion and aid our gallant Captain Faramir in finding and destroying the foul traitorous BNs! I shall be... no, I am the first to do so. Who's with me?

I solemnly swear I am up to no good.

No.

Wait.

Wrong alignment.

Wrong fandom.

Wrong post.

Carry on.

[Bom Tombadillo]

Aw, pie. I got my times mixed up and will have rather less time to post around DL than I thought, so if my votes seem rushed/I lack information about things I should know you now know why.

I solemnly swear I am up to no Law, Good, or even Neutral. Chaotic Evil all the way! ;)

Also, G55, Sally and I are wolves (first three posters, y'see). Lynch us now.

[Galadriel55]

I solemnly swear I am up to no good.

No.

Wait.

Wrong alignment.

Wrong fandom.

Wrong post.

Carry on.

:D



OK, so here's for some starters.

Agan is guilty of being the first on the list.
Bom is guilty of making jokes. When he starts making them.
Sally is up to no good.
Pomegranate is guilty of being a food.
Greenie is guilty of being green.
Glirdy and Lottie are guilty simply because it's Day 1.
The others are guilty of... well, something or other.
I am guilty of stupid silly posts.

Edit: xed with Bom. See, he admits it! :D

[Inziladun]

But let us all solemnly swear to avenge Pithwivion and aid our gallant Captain Faramir in finding and destroying the foul traitorous BNs! I shall be... no, I am the first to do so. Who's with me?

All must stand together against this menace. The followers of evil must not triumph. I am with you indeed, and with all who would uphold the faith and vision of Elendil the Faithful.

I solemnly swear I am up to no good.

No.

Wait.

Wrong alignment.

Wrong fandom.

Wrong post.

Carry on.

What say you? Of strange matters you speak!

x/d with Bom and G55

[Boromir88]

Agan is guilty of being the first on the list.
Bom is guilty of making jokes. When he starts making them.
Sally is up to no good.
Pomegranate is guilty of being a food.
Greenie is guilty of being green.
Glirdy and Lottie are guilty simply because it's Day 1.
The others are guilty of... well, something or other.
I am guilty of stupid silly posts.

Edit: xed with Bom. See, he admits it! :D

I'm shockingly hurt by being thrown in as an "other," and just when I was considering lending my spade to bury our fallen comrade. But you can go find your own darn shovel.

You've gotten lazy in guilty accusations of randomness. I expected more.

[Galadriel55]

Let me provide you with some entertainment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FcwHQfIuCnU)while we look over evidence and decide on the culprits.

Edit: xed with Boro

[Galadriel55]

I'm shockingly hurt by being thrown in as an "other," and just when I was considering lending my spade to bury our fallen comrade. But you can go find your own darn shovel.

Fine then - Boro is guilty of complaining.

Better? :p:D

You've gotten lazy in guilty accusations of randomness. I expected more.

I know, I know. My creativity's running low.

G55 is guilty of looking for excuses, blaming some "Creativity".

[Inziladun]

G55 is guilty of looking for excuses, blaming some "Creativity".

And don't forget, "list-making". ;)

[Galadriel55]

And don't forget, "list-making".

That much should be obvious. ;):p:D

[Loslote]

So far, we have all been ignoring the most pressing question, the question that will decide the fate of us all, that will haunt us until all enternity if unanswered -

What do we call Pomegranate?

I'm in favor of Meg or Nate, myself - Pom sounds too much like Bom, Gran is just no good, and Rana is too much like the spanish word for frog.

What say you all? :p

Now that that's out of the way, I won't actually be posting right now. I just had a spare moment and typed this up. I think I'll have time in four hours or so, and if not, tomorrow for sure.

[satansaloser2005]

Lottie, there are more important matters to discuss than the nomenclature of fruit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Boromir88]

That much should be obvious. ;):p:D

Add excessive use of smilies to the list of tell-tale suspicious signs. Are there any more you'd like to use, G55? I suppose, you break one you might as well break all.

Lottie, there are more important matters to discuss than the nomenclature of fruit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know, I'm seriously considering giving Lottie a "won't vote for her" pass on Day 1, because that was brilliant, and kinda funny...mostly brilliant.

I wish I could use smilies in this post, but G55 ruined that.

[Galadriel55]

Add excessive use of smilies to the list of tell-tale suspicious signs. Are there any more you'd like to use, G55? I suppose, you break one you might as well break all.

I feel like revealing wolf just to annoy you, but that just won't do since there are no wolves in this game. :smokin:

[Boromir88]

I feel like revealing wolf just to annoy you, but that just won't do since there are no wolves in this game. :smokin:

I suppose I should be grateful for your consideration of my mental health. :rolleyes:

[Pomegranate]

This is serious business we're facing here, and my contribution shall be among the efforts of all of us true Rangers. There is an important point to make, which is that G55 made a list including some of us and excluding the others (and no, it's not even completely just the first ones on the list). This obviously shows her alliance to those left out, which should raise suspicion. Boro, Inziladun, Nogrod, Rune and Shastanis were left out. Boro started complaining about this - bluff? Was he afraid that this omission would be used as evidence? But it won't work, dear Boro. We can read you. On the other hand, is G55 stupid enough to leave us this clue?

That is, let's get paranoid.

And to the inferior matters, hence Pom indeed does clash with an existing abbreviation, I'm happy with Nate. I'm learning yours as they emerge in the game :)

edit. Learning to use the boldings.

[Bom Tombadillo]

Lottie, there are more important matters to discuss than the nomenclature of fruit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Indeed.

--Loslote

Also ~~Loslote, ==Loslote, and <><>Loslote.

That'll teach her not to act on the mountain of evidence on Day 1! :mad: :D

EDIT: X'd with Nate Ford.

[Galadriel55]

This is serious business we're facing here, and my contribution shall be among the efforts of all of us true Rangers. There is an important point to make, which is that G55 made a list including some of us and excluding the others (and no, it's not even completely just the first ones on the list). This obviously shows her alliance to those left out, which should raise suspicion. Boro, Inziladun, Nogrod, Rune and Shastanis were left out. Boro started complaining about this - bluff? Was he afraid that this omission would be used as evidence? But it won't work, dear Boro. We can read you. On the other hand, is G55 stupid enough to leave us this clue?

That is, let's get paranoid.

No, not paranoid. Silly.

Seriously, if there was one serious word in that suspicion list I'm a better singer than Luthien. Same goes for all the joking to follow. :)

It's almost a tradition for someone to make joke-suspicion lists on the "morning" of Day 1, just for laughs. It's fun. And yes, I was lazy this time, so I didn't make one for everyone. And if I wouldn't have made it, someone else probably would have.

[Galadriel55]

I suppose I should be grateful for your consideration of my mental health. :rolleyes:

You're very welcome. :Merisu:

On the topic of naming Pomegranate, since we say the word more like pomagranit, Meg and Nate simply won't serve. ;)

Rana is too much like the spanish word for frog.

But Elvish for Wanderer (a name for the moon).

I think we should let Pomegranate choose her own nick, at least her first one. We'll make others up if we don't like it. :P

[Glirdan]

Glirdy and Lottie are guilty simply because it's Day 1.

Well in that case...
--GlirdanMight as well start the bandwagon myself if that's the way I'm gonna go :p.

Or better yet

--Vanilwamuffin because she's not playin the game :p (and if you're reading this my bestie, I do it out of love <3)

[satansaloser2005]

You got me all excited that Muffin was playing, and then I realized she's not. :(

-|- -|- Glirdan for being a meanie face


And now I'm going to bed. I leave you with the following instructions....

*Don't lynch me. I'm innocent and I don't want to die, at least not this early.
*Be gentle with the fresh fruit. We don't want to bruise him/her so early in the game.
*Lynch Phantom if you can.
*Villains, please identify yourselves. It'll make all our lives a little easier.
*Gifteds, tell me all your blessed secrets.
*Pitchwife, please don't modfire the lot of us for all our phalse votes.
*Somebody make me some ruddy pancakes. I'm starving.

[Galadriel55]

*Somebody make me some ruddy pancakes. I'm starving.

What? Not cupcakes? :(

[Bom Tombadillo]

That's the second time in a row it's told me to spread some reputation around before repping sally again. I don't remember having repped her in the first place. :(

Next poster, don't forget the :(. Let's see how long we can keep the chain going. :D

[Shastanis Althreduin]

So sorry, but they call me "Chain-Breaker" back home.

Deal with it.

(No, I didn't just now realize it was Day 1, shut up.)

[Pomegranate]

Seriously, if there was one serious word in that suspicion list I'm a better singer than Luthien.

Serious, was somebody talking serious? I mean, OF COURSE you were revealing all the important information in your first post ;) So don't worry, I didn't catch you, just yet anyway. Just contributing to the first-day mess.

I'll join the pancake party.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Who will make an analysis based on how people use emoticons?

[Boromir88]

I'm also probably giving Shasta a "won't vote for" endorsement on Day 1, for the best Day 1 post I can remember reading. I don't remember a lot of Day 1 posting, but I won't forget that...they call me "Chain-breaker" at home...heh

Who will make an analysis based on how people use emoticons?

Sounds like you really want the job Rune.

[Aganzir]

I am here. I also promised Greenie to behave myself this time around. Let's see how long I can keep it up.

It's no wonder the Orcs ambushed us if this is what the Rangers of Ithilien have come to.

GUILTY
Bom. Chaotic Evil doesn't sit well with defending the Realm of Men from the threat of Mordor.
Boromir88. Puts a personal grudge ahead of giving Pithwivion a respectable burial.
Galadriel55. Says Bom is guilty of making jokes when he starts making them. Does this mean she didn't take it as a joke when he said he's wolves with her and sally? Encouraged by Boro, she takes her guilty accusations of randomness entirely too far.
Greenie. She's in the other wolf pack.

INNOCENT
Inziladun. A little pompous, shall we say? We can only hope he's pompous in an "I'm an old Ranger" sort of way instead of "I try to act true so you don't lynch me"! In any case, I won't vote for him because he died too early last time and I want to unnerve him for a little while longer in this game.
Pomegranate. Contrary to what G55 suggested (jumpy are we?), I don't believe her first post was entirely serious. Not voting for her either because it's her fist game and all.

EITHER
Glirdan. Nothing to say.
Loslote. The most important thing about the game is Pomegranate's nick. Yeaah.
Nogrod. I might be willing to place my trust in him once he's here and leads the discussion to more serious waters.
Rune. Nothing to say.
sally. Swears she's up to no good. Since there's no cobbler in this game, it's more or less irrelevant.
Shasta. Nothing to say.

If I had to vote right now, I'd be willing to go for one of those who have been posting mock votes. Namely Bom, Glirdan or sally.

[Nogrod]

Introducing the grumpy Finns, Part 2.

Faramir acts like a ranger, Pitwivion did so... but what has happened to all the rest of you? Have the evil servants made a spell and turned everyone into toddlers in a sandbox so that they can hide more easily behind the veil of sallyness... erm... silliness?


Kudos to Nate for at least trying.


Heh. Complaining, but not doing anything myself? Admitted.

Sorry. I'm in a hurry right now but I should be able to hang around later toDay - and as it is Saturday I can hang around until the end then.

[Boromir88]

If I had to vote right now, I'd be willing to go for one of those who have been posting mock votes. Namely Bom, Glirdan or sally.

What harm is there in mock votes? Looks like an easy "let me hook on to an idea to cast an quick 'n easy Day 1 vote" thing that a wolf...erm BN...would do. Granted it's early and there has been quite a lot of silliness, well mostly silliness.

You haven't seen Red Riding Hood by chance? I mean the movie recently made on it, not the lost-in-woods-girl. Terrible movie I'll say, but definitely worth it just for Gary Oldman. The entire cast is over-acting, but they're so serious with it, as if attempting to not realize they're in a terrible movie. Gary Oldman on the other hand, also clearly over-acts, but he has so much fun with it...it's like he know it's a crappy movie, maybe wonders why he agreed to it, but will still have fun with it! It's marvelously Shakespearean.

Anyway, my goal in this crew is to be the Gary Oldman as seen in Red Riding Hood. Have some fun with it, possibly be dramatically over-acting, but key point being, one rockin' bad wolf...erm BN...finder. It probably doesn't help if no one's seen it...wouldn't blame them, because crap movie, but seriously Oldman makes it worth watching.

That's my goal at least. And I will get right on it after breakfast (no 2nd breakfast, but perhaps afternoon tea...mmm)

Edit: Crossed with Nog.

[Galadriel55]

Galadriel55. Says Bom is guilty of making jokes when he starts making them. Does this mean she didn't take it as a joke when he said he's wolves with her and sally?

I xed with him. I said so in my post.


Joking aside, an honest attempt at a summary. Joking/IC not included. (Gonna be a real short one)

Nate jokingly accuses me, but I don't get it, so I reply in all earnesty. Misunderstanding settled.

Agan - wants to vote Bom, Glirdan, or Sally for mock-voting. (was that serious, or just a continuation of the semi-silly suspicion post?)

Boro questions Agan about her decision, calling it an think a BN would do. Doesn't put much stock in this, since it's early in D1 and mostly silliness. Says that he will have an "Oldman style" aka having fun and over-acting.

G55 makes a summary.

Is that it? Well, at least you can say that I did one useful thing so far.

[Boromir88]

Boro questions Agan about her decision, calling it an think a BN would do. Doesn't put much stock in this, since it's early in D1 and mostly silliness. Says that he will have an "Oldman style" aka having fun and over-acting


For posterity...I actually do put stock in my comment to Agan, otherwise I wouldn't have said it. The "It's D1 and mostly silliness" was me trying to anticipate the normal Day 1 response. "Oh it's D1 and people are acting loony, wouldn't YOU vote the same if you didn't have any good ideas?"

So, yes, in sincerity I do suspect Agan...rather strongly too I might add. "If I had to vote right now, I'd be willing to go for one of those who have been posting mock votes," is a part of it, but not all. I'm waiting to see if anyone else caught the classic BN trick that Agan has attempted in her first post.

[Inziladun]

Hmm, after all that time this is what I return to? :rolleyes:

On the topic of naming Pomegranate, since we say the word more like pomagranit, Meg and Nate simply won't serve. ;)

Well, (s)he(?) has said Nate was acceptable. What else is there? Rock (granate=granite)?


Who will make an analysis based on how people use emoticons?

People use them for different reasons. I would say some among us are probably naturally irrepressible (*glances about*), and just can't help themselves.
Others could utilize them as filler in lieu of substance, though.

So, yes, in sincerity I do suspect Agan...rather strongly too I might add. "If I had to vote right now, I'd be willing to go for one of those who have been posting mock votes," is a part of it, but not all. I'm waiting to see if anyone else caught the classic BN trick that Agan has attempted in her first post.

I'm actually all right with Agan, though she did call me "pompous". What can I say? We must all play with our strengths. ;)
Seriously though, I didn't get any alarm bells from that.

[Aganzir]

Faramir acts like a ranger, Pitwivion did so... but what has happened to all the rest of you?
I am upset. I was trying to be serious. More or less.

What harm is there in mock votes? Looks like an easy "let me hook on to an idea to cast an quick 'n easy Day 1 vote" thing that a wolf...erm BN...would do. Granted it's early and there has been quite a lot of silliness, well mostly silliness.
None per se apart from being annoying, and my saying so reflects the lack of general content rather than their harmfulness. Anyway I dare to hope you know me better than to say I would take the quick & easy way as a BN. ;)

Gary Oldman on the other hand, also clearly over-acts, but he has so much fun with it...it's like he know it's a crappy movie, maybe wonders why he agreed to it, but will still have fun with it!
Are you comparing Pitch's game to a crappy movie? :p And yeah I've seen it, friends wanted to watch it and I agreed because I had never before seen the Irons boy in action.

I xed with him. I said so in my post.
Whoops. I didn't see it. And I had such a fine point!

Agan - wants to vote Bom, Glirdan, or Sally for mock-voting. (was that serious, or just a continuation of the semi-silly suspicion post?)
Serious enough in the sense that if I had had to vote then, it's likely I would've based my vote on them. Also if I had had to vote then, there wouldn't have been anything more serious.

I'm waiting to see if anyone else caught the classic BN trick that Agan has attempted in her first post.
I didn't. Pray tell.

Now I know Boro is Boro and does all weird kinds of stuff on Day 1, but I don't know what to make of his attack against me. He should know I'm not one to try and do classic BN tricks in my first post (emphasis on 'try' - either I pull them off properly, or don't do them at all). So who's the one looking for an easy prey? However I'll be around to finish the dance later because a friend just came over and is making impatient noises in the kitchen.

[Galadriel55]

So, yes, in sincerity I do suspect Agan...rather strongly too I might add. "If I had to vote right now, I'd be willing to go for one of those who have been posting mock votes," is a part of it, but not all. I'm waiting to see if anyone else caught the classic BN trick that Agan has attempted in her first post.

I noticed no BN trick, and I found her post half-joking. Who would legitimately suspect a person for this:

Bom. Chaotic Evil doesn't sit well with defending the Realm of Men from the threat of Mordor.

Or this:

Boromir88. Puts a personal grudge ahead of giving Pithwivion a respectable burial.

???

And you say you strongly suspect her... what's there to suspect for? I understand the mock vote accusation, but what BN/wolf trick? I don't even see her accusations being too serious!


Edit: xed with Agan herself. (I wrote this post and then left the computer for about 10 minutes before clicking the post button. :rolleyes:)

[Galadriel55]

Serious enough in the sense that if I had had to vote then, it's likely I would've based my vote on them. Also if I had had to vote then, there wouldn't have been anything more serious.

You weren't serious in the list, though. Not entirely, right? Right?


Right now I'm thinking if wolf!Agan would really do the "classic BN trick", or if wolf!Boro would really come this way at an innocent (strongly suspecting someone based on... what exactly?). Somehow I don't see either happening.

Explanations please!

[Loslote]

No, not paranoid. Silly.

Seriously, if there was one serious word in that suspicion list I'm a better singer than Luthien. Same goes for all the joking to follow. :)

It's almost a tradition for someone to make joke-suspicion lists on the "morning" of Day 1, just for laughs. It's fun. And yes, I was lazy this time, so I didn't make one for everyone. And if I wouldn't have made it, someone else probably would have.

Nate jokingly accuses me, but I don't get it, so I reply in all earnesty. Misunderstanding settled.

Jumpy much? ;)

Really, though, that much defensiveness about a Day 1, semi-IC post (from a first-time player, no less) makes me think that you might have something to hide. G55 just jumped to the top of my suspect list.

[A Little Green]

Anyway, my goal in this crew is to be the Gary Oldman as seen in Red Riding Hood. Have some fun with it, possibly be dramatically over-acting, but key point being, one rockin' bad wolf...erm BN...finder. It probably doesn't help if no one's seen it...wouldn't blame them, because crap movie, but seriously Oldman makes it worth watching.Err - your goal is to be bad at hunting wolves? I sincerely hope not. (And yes, that movie is crap, but Oldman is good fun and I won't deny Jeremy Irons' son is a cutie. :D)

Ahem. Back on topic - the back-and-forth between Agan and Boro is very interesting. I'm reserving judgment on both for now; I want to see a bit more before making up my mind. On one hand, my gut says Boro is genuine enough (though I remember saying this before and remember, also, promising never to trust him again) and knowing him, he might really have spotted something others didn't. On the other hand, if there was something to spot in Agan's post I clearly missed it and, also knowing Boro, he might just try and pull off an easy Agan lynch (her being a relatively popular Day 1 lynch anyway), starting with a suspicion he has no need of argumenting any further than some secret code he managed to crack. It is also possible that they are both genuinely innocent, meaning that Boro found a lead that isn't actually there. So, as yet, I'm undecided.


EDIT: x-ed with Lottie

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I have now read through all the posts twice without coming up with much, this can hopefully be attributed to it being day1 and the excessive silliness that has become the trade mark of the rangers(and not to any lack of skill on my part).

I found myself increasingly annoyed with the banter and random silliness, which was taken much too far. I think that both Nogrod and Aganzir’s frustrations are completely understandable and that we need to pull our selves together.

Boromir’s argument that it is entirely possible to have fun, be overdramatic and play a serious game of werewolf at the same time does have some merit. However until recently, the seriousness that was supposed to lie behind the silliness has been hard to spot.

Pommy’s (I am used to Lommy playing in these games, so you will have to serve as a substitute) joke-accusation against Galadriel was of course a banality, but a breath of fresh air. It for a brief moment changed the discourse and we were actually being productive and generating material worth analysing.

Thoughts such as those expressed by Aganzir and Lottie can of course be dismissed as attempts at “easy” lynches, but based on what has happened so far they seem quite reasonable.

Personally I don’t like the way BomT made excuses for his voting future voting pattern in a post otherwise written in jest. I am probably over critical, because of how annoyed I got reading through all the jesting again.

[Galadriel55]

Rune, do you have any suggestions of what we could bounce talk of? There's the Agan-Boro matter, but they didn't come to elaborate yet. It's good to say "let's talk seriously", but you also have to consider that there's hardly anything to talk seriously of.

[Pomegranate]

I actually do agree with Lottie in her accusation of G55:s jumpiness, adding to her material G55:s reaction to Agan's comment:

You weren't serious in the list, though. Not entirely, right? Right?

I can understand that's half-joking, but it exists anyway. And besides, Agan wasn't even saying she would've voted for her. Not that it would be anything but someone not wanting to fall out of the game on the first day, it's still, I think, more suspicious than anything else we have.

Except Boro's accusation on Agan, which seems strangely serious at this point of the game. With the decision not to reveal what he saw, it's definitely curious. I'm not sure what to make of it, however, not just yet.

[Boromir88]

Starting here:

Err - your goal is to be bad at hunting wolves? I sincerely hope not.

Touche, but you can't judge a fellow's career based on one instance of failing. And note, I did not say hunt, but find...slightly different, but different none the less. (And intentionally different).

Explanations please!

Patience. There was never any doubt I would explain (and Agan knows this as well), but the doubt is when will I? I've probably seen about as much reaction from others as can be hoped for so...Shall we?

However I'll be around to finish the dance later because a friend just came over and is making impatient noises in the kitchen.

Oh, we are dancing now? *secretly fist pumps* I should hope I'm better than last time we danced, or I dare say this will end badly for the both of us, but mostly for me.

So, guessing that Agan really was moderately annoyed by the early day behavior, but also knowing even if she was it wouldn't point either to being a BN or innocent I wanted to inquire further. And since she loves drilling us slacks into shape, I knew her post would be the first with any real meaning or relevance. Which is always a good thing, and it's what I love about Agan in these situations, but again, it wouldn't point either to BN or innocent. To BN or not to BN? That is the question.

Now the post did strike me as suspicious enough to comment on it. As I said, the mock vote statement, is part of it, but not all. Instead of revealing all of it immediately, I wanted to draw attention to the post and get other responses to it. What better way than to give a teaser and then a vague "you see it!" Because while I am suspicious, I can not actually know the answer of the million dollar question, and it would pain me awfully to see Agan be lynched so soon on the chance that I was wrong.

So the full explanation, of the classic BN attempt. Knowing Agan wanted to cut the garbage and get down to business, then her lists would be more meaningful than G55's list of randomness (no offense G55, just meaning I can deduce Agan's reactions and feelings on people, because there's more meaning going into her list). And believe it or not, it's actually what she says about G55:

Galadriel55. Says Bom is guilty of making jokes when he starts making them. Does this mean she didn't take it as a joke when he said he's wolves with her and sally? Encouraged by Boro, she takes her guilty accusations of randomness entirely too far.

And then her reaction to Pomegranate:

Pomegranate. Contrary to what G55 suggested (jumpy are we?), I don't believe her first post was entirely serious. Not voting for her either because it's her fist game and all. (bolding my emphasis)

Combine that with what she says at the end:

If I had to vote right now, I'd be willing to go for one of those who have been posting mock votes. Namely Bom, Glirdan or sally.

And we have the classic "let me give you all some suspicions, see which ones stick, but distract you with threatening to vote those who are being less helpful at the moment" trick. That is to say, you were willing to vote based on either being annoyed, or to scare Bom, Glirdan, and sally into shaping up and NOT based on suspicions...yet you did the whole "let me give you some suspicions" thing well enough. And it seems to have worked since Lottie has now jumped on your comment about G55 being "jumpy"...wow we are a jumping bunch today.

Anyway I dare to hope you know me better than to say I would take the quick & easy way as a BN.

Hmm...perhaps, you do certainly love the challenge. But, you would know I can be a good challenge...unless we actually are dancing. But I don't mean "classic and quick" as a slight upon your shining brilliance, if indeed you are a BN. Because you know I would do the same...that is lynching and killing based on emotions, annoyance, and who's getting on my nerve.

Now I know Boro is Boro and does all weird kinds of stuff on Day 1, but I don't know what to make of his attack against me. He should know I'm not one to try and do classic BN tricks in my first post (emphasis on 'try' - either I pull them off properly, or don't do them at all). So who's the one looking for an easy prey?

Not looking for easy prey, my dear, looking to see if 1) I could get a read on you and 2) if I could get some attention to your post, and thus get others to look at it, comment, react and in turn get a read on them.

And in that way for 1) If I correctly read you are a BN than based on 2) I can get some other commenting on my correct suspicions, ergo, it will help me figure them out.

But if for 1) my initial impression was incorrect, I would hope you could assuage my suspicions by responding (and I knew you would respond) than based on 2) I could see if anyone jumped onto my reasoning...which I left purposefully vague at the time to see how some might react. Make sense?

I admit, it may be cruel, because it must feel like I've used you as bait, and well, to use one of your marvelous talents as bait might have been a waste. But that way I see it is, feel privileged because if you aren't a BN than we both agree you are a witch...and using witches as bait is perfectly legal. But mainly I took it as you were essentially giving me permission in your first post, because of what I saw as suspicious behavior. (Detailed above and in my previous post).

Edit: crossed with Rune, G55, and Pomegranate

(See what I mean Agan? Lottie jumps at your jumpy comment, and now Pomegranate follows Lottie)

[satansaloser2005]

My sweet prince Boro never fails to amaze me. :smokin:

[Loslote]

(See what I mean Agan? Lottie jumps at your jumpy comment, and now Pomegranate follows Lottie)

You know, I didn't even realize that I was following Agan's comment when I said mine until I saw that bolded in your post! It's the sort of thing you pass over when reading the rest of the post, but sticks in your mind...now I'm wondering if my thinking G55 suspicious was even my idea in the first place, or just my subconcious picking that up. :confused:

EDIT: xed with Teh Cupcake

[Galadriel55]

Boro, I see what you mean now. But still, it's hard for me not to think that that post of Agan's was a bit of a joke. Just look at it:


GUILTY
Bom. Chaotic Evil doesn't sit well with defending the Realm of Men from the threat of Mordor.

Teasing.

Boromir88. Puts a personal grudge ahead of giving Pithwivion a respectable burial.

IC

Galadriel55. Says Bom is guilty of making jokes when he starts making them. Does this mean she didn't take it as a joke when he said he's wolves with her and sally? Encouraged by Boro, she takes her guilty accusations of randomness entirely too far.

The first point is invalid. The second is true, but doesn't say anything.

Greenie. She's in the other wolf pack.

Their silly inside joke.


After looking at this it was hard for me to take all the rest (innocent and either) seriously, until I reached the part where she said she'll vote the mock-voters. That got me confused. Agan, where were you serious and where were you not?

Edit: xed with Lottie and sally

[Inziladun]

So Boro is doing his standard Day 1 scheming. Or so he says in his last about the deal with Agan. Hmm.

I have now read through all the posts twice without coming up with much, this can hopefully be attributed to it being day1 and the excessive silliness that has become the trade mark of the rangers(and not to any lack of skill on my part).

I can relate to this. Yes, Day 1 is a customary time for goofy asides, but this seems to be over the top this time. Right Sally and G55?

Pommy’s (I am used to Lommy playing in these games, so you will have to serve as a substitute) joke-accusation against Galadriel was of course a banality, but a breath of fresh air. It for a brief moment changed the discourse and we were actually being productive and generating material worth analysing.

As a random observation about Pom/Nate, (s)he (clarification, please?) seems to have fallen into the rythm of things very well.

Personally I don’t like the way BomT made excuses for his voting future voting pattern in a post otherwise written in jest. I am probably over critical, because of how annoyed I got reading through all the jesting again.

Not that it means anything at this point, but Bom has a habit of doing things like that.

x/d with G55

[satansaloser2005]

Is PomPom a guy or a girl? (Ha. I found an obvious yet new option.)

[Loslote]

Is PomPom a guy or a girl? (Ha. I found an obvious yet new option.)

Ooh! I like. :D

Also, I'm guessing the fact that (s)he chose the name Nate over Meg indicates maleness, but that's not a foolproof way of telling.

[Galadriel55]

PomPom

YES! :D

Edit: xed with Lottie

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

An interesting theory put forth by Boromir...

It would be brilliant of BN Aganzir to do what you described, yet when I read through her post in that context I find that it is too subtle.
"(jumpy are we?)" Would be the only thing put forth that might make the reader think twice about possible suspicions.

[Boromir88]

My sweet prince Boro never fails to amaze me. :smokin:

I live for it, I would request from you what are your general impressions on Agan and G55. But all I really want is your vote (and for the nasty 'Downs not to delete it!)

You know, I didn't even realize that I was following Agan's comment when I said mine until I saw that bolded in your post! It's the sort of thing you pass over when reading the rest of the post, but sticks in your mind...now I'm wondering if my thinking G55 suspicious was even my idea in the first place, or just my subconcious picking that up. :confused:


Ha, surprisingly I can actually believe that. It looks honest, at least, but I suppose a BN could miss it just as easily as anyone else. Still, won't trouble myself with that today.

Boro, I see what you mean now. But still, it's hard for me not to think that that post of Agan's was a bit of a joke. Just look at it:

Now surely, one who was actively annoyed by the silly unproductivity of the early posts would not add further to it by making joke suspicions? Look at Nog, his post, griped and then bowed out. He admits it added nothing to the productivity, but in fact it actually makes Nog look innocent to me. He said his griping about how the start was entirely too silly, but did not add to the behavior. Don't you see it?

Can't have it both ways here. And thus, if one is annoyed by the sillyness, than they aren't going to ADD to it. Now, Agan's obviously not going to vote anyone on her guilty list based on what she said in her first post...no certainly not. But that doesn't mean she wasn't serious in where she put people on her list. She will certainly change her mind (or at least act like she's changing her mind) as the day continues, but you can see the difference between your "list" and hers...yes?

You gave irrelevant and random suspecting of everyone. Agan, being annoyed by the behavior, took what was already posted and used it to form her list. There is certainly a rationale behind it, otherwise she would have no business complaining about the early day shenanigans.

Edit: crossed with everyone after #49

[Galadriel55]

I live for it, I would request from you what are your general impressions on Agan and G55. But all I really want is your vote (and for the nasty 'Downs not to delete it!)

A vote. But for whom?

Now surely, one who was actively annoyed by the silly unproductivity of the early posts would not add further to it by making joke suspicions? Look at Nog, his post, griped and then bowed out. He admits it added nothing to the productivity, but in fact it actually makes Nog look innocent to me. He said his griping about how the start was entirely too silly, but did not add to the behavior. Don't you see it?

I see it, and I understand why her post could have been serious, unlike mine. But at the same time, how can you be serious if you accuse people for being "chaotic evil" for, or accuse in character (about the burial)? If Agan really wanted to add serious content, wouldn't she be doing it seriously?

I'm confused.

Agan, just tell me please where were you serious so I can finally put this issue in the "understood, done, and over with" box.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

So we're finally into the actual "discussion" part of Day 1? Lovely.

What I've seen thus far is Boro being his typical manipulative self, Agan being annoyed (can hardly blame her), and G55 being under the spotlight today.

I must say I agree with most of what Rune has said; at least, that we have the same sentiments.

I did notice something that G55 said earlier that reminds me terribly of a ploy I've used as a wolf - near the beginning, she tried to get people to drop the subject in a "okay, done, move it along folks, nothing to see here" kind of way. That much is just an observation, but I know it's something I've done as a wolf when I felt like too much heat was about to be focused my way.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Oh, look, she did it again! :eek:

[Bom Tombadillo]

Blrrrrg. Day 1's . . . even once serious discussion starts, I can never keep them straight.

We dursn't like Shasta, no, precious, we dursn't like him at all. Nice G55 just seems to want answers and avoid misunderstandings (nasty, nassssty misunderstandings) to me - so would we, were we less busy reveling in the chaos.

[Galadriel55]

Aganzir: I don't understand if I should take her seriously or not. I don't want to judge her until she explains everything properly.

A Little Green: sounds sincere.

Boromir88: either an Einstein BN or an Einstein innocent. Raises a good point against Agan, but not a decisive one by any means, and definitely not one to make me "strongly suspect" her.

Inziladun: gives the impression of commenting on things without involving himself anywhere. Pokes here and there but stays aloof. This behaviour unnerves me.

Loslote: suspects me based on what Agan said but doesn't realise Agan's post was feeding her ideas. Sounds genuine.

Pomegranate: repeats well the suspicions others have said. Could be that she truly agrees with them and just has nothing different to say, or could be a wolf getting leg-ups. Anyways, s/he has a pass for toDay.

Rune: something ticks me off about him. Maybe I'm just not used to his playing style yet, since it's our first game together. The vibes comming from him are not good.

satansaloser2005: lots o' posts, little to go off of. Typical sally. No opinion as yet.

Shasta: suspects me (wrongly, but not unreasonably). Has a legitimate argument.

Bom, Glirdan, Nogrod: More posts please!


Looking at that, I will not be voting (based on current information): Lottie, Nate/Pom, Shasta.

I might be voting: Rune, Zil.

[Boromir88]

So, I kind of just been hit with an unexpected backslap of bad news. I'll be ok as far as continuing on with the game, but at the moment I seriously can't focus and don't want to spend the next few hours fighting with myself to try to stay focused.

I'd feel wrong voting for anyone under these circumstances. The most suspicious to me has been Agan, but I've been holding off to wait and hear her response before actually deciding on a vote.

Next would probably be Inzil, I just think he's playing sly and careful right now. As if he's waiting around to see which way the winds are blowing before committing anything more sincere. Which always gives me BN-ish vibes.

I'd like it not at all if sally or G55 gets lynched, but that's based on general impression and feelings of innocence and not on any strong reasoning.

That's all. Sorry everyone. :(

Edit: crossed with G55

[Galadriel55]

I'm sorry to hear that, Boro. I hope it works out in the end.

[Pomegranate]

Boro, hope you're okay, you shouldn't stress about this.

I did actually consciously notice Agan's comment about jumpiness. I had noted that myself, being the one G55 jumped at, but didn't consider it worthy of mentioning, thinking it was more my lack of being able to emphasise my jokes than anything else. With the second comment to Agan's lists she raised my suspicion level by acting again in the somewhat panicked, if only half-serious manner. I did borrow the word from Lommie and Agan, but I genuinely did think about the suspicion myself.

Have to love Boro's theory, and I would think it would've been a wonderful plot from Agan, if it were. I'm not sure about either of them, and I want to hear Agan's reaction to all this. However, as I had noticed the jumpi-ness myself as well, I see that as a reasonable comment, which doesn't too strongly imply to her as being a BN.

I don't have the time to go through all of you, but I was disturbed by Bom's pretty uninformative post, went through the day and realised all her posts were pretty similar - not commenting anything or anyone strongly enough to raise suspicion/attention, but frequent enough for it to seem she's actively around. Now I don't know the normal playing techniques of everyone, so I can't know if that's just her/his way, but to me it gives a bad vibe. Though now I'm obviously playing on the same 'vibe' level as she is. However, maybe I could get something more out of her by this.

Oh, and PomPom/Nate/Pommy is a she and dislikes the name Meg in general. Thank you for all of these.

edit. I should preview these, I am so bad in this bolding thing.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Blrrrrg. Day 1's . . . even once serious discussion starts, I can never keep them straight.

We dursn't like Shasta, no, precious, we dursn't like him at all. Nice G55 just seems to want answers and avoid misunderstandings (nasty, nassssty misunderstandings) to me - so would we, were we less busy reveling in the chaos.

So why bother trying, amirite? :rolleyes:

So, Bom doesn't like me from the very first statement of the game I make. Color me surprised. He also doesn't say why... but then, I suppose that's hardly surprising either.

Anyway.

Boro, I hope whatever's troubling you goes away. :(

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I have remained quiet for a while due to Boromir’s theory. My initial reaction to his theory was that it was a case of over-analyzing relatively mundane day1 suspicions. This was probably fuelled by the fact, that my initial reaction to Aganzir’s post was one of understanding.


However Boromir have managed to argue his case very well, especially his focus on the contradictions and borrowed elements in Aganzir’s post made me think twice. Should I abandon my initial feeling about Aganzir on the basis of a day1 analysis, that only really deal with a single post? I think I will decide against it, at least until further developments have taken place.

Boromir’s case is good and I definitely have good feeling about him, but Aganzir’s post strikes me as a typical first post. Of course one a first post can be the basis of a lynch and there definitely are some unanswered questions about the post, but I want to see more before voting for Aganzir. It is much more likely that I will vote for a person like Sally or BomT, both of which fails at being constructive in my opinion (so far).

[Galadriel55]

I did borrow the word from Lommie and Agan, but I genuinely did think about the suspicion myself.

Do you mean Lottie? Lommy/Lommie isn't playing in this game, and she's a completely different person (Thinlomien) :)

I don't have the time to go through all of you, but I was disturbed by Bom's pretty uninformative post, went through the day and realised all her posts were pretty similar

Bom's a him. :)

Now I don't know the normal playing techniques of everyone, so I can't know if that's just her/his way, but to me it gives a bad vibe. Though now I'm obviously playing on the same 'vibe' level as she is. However, maybe I could get something more out of her by this.

Bom is usually like that, but normally he jokes around more. In the past 3 or so games Day1 was purely an argument of whether we should suspect him based on his joking manner.

[Pitchwife]

So, I kind of just been hit with an unexpected backslap of bad news.
I hope it'll all turn out allright, Boro. You're excused for the Day as far as I'm concerned.

Everybody else: as you were.

[Aganzir]

On one hand, my gut says Boro is genuine enough
Boro is never genuine. No matter what his role, he always has something up his sleeve and is no good to trust. ;)
he might just try and pull off an easy Agan lynch (her being a relatively popular Day 1 lynch anyway)
Am not!

Oh, we are dancing now? *secretly fist pumps* I should hope I'm better than last time we danced, or I dare say this will end badly for the both of us, but mostly for me.
Let's hope so (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y62/Aganzir/P6220762.jpg).

So the full explanation, of the classic BN attempt. Knowing Agan wanted to cut the garbage and get down to business, then her lists would be more meaningful than G55's list of randomness
I hate to disappoint you, but I'm afraid it isn't a lot better than Gal's. The difference is, she based it on things that had little or nothing to do with the actual gameplay while I used things people had said themselves. It's more to demonstrate that even though more than half the day had passed, there was no content whatsoever; and if I had had to vote then, I would've been forced to base it on IC stuff.
In answer to Gal: the list itself is serious (except what I said about Greenie). However it's also very indifferent, I never bothered to take pains to draw connections between things & people because I could have gathered pretty much nothing from it. It's not like I actually suspected you four at the moment. I wanted suspects, and you fit there the most easily. Do you see what I mean if I say it wasn't a joke, but it wasn't serious-serious either?

That is to say, you were willing to vote based on either being annoyed, or to scare Bom, Glirdan, and sally into shaping up and NOT based on suspicions...yet you did the whole "let me give you some suspicions" thing well enough.
Fair enough.

I admit, it may be cruel, because it must feel like I've used you as bait
It's not - I knew what you were up to, and I know you know, having done it before, that I don't mind being used for the greater good. At least as long as it doesn't get out of hand. :p

You know, I didn't even realize that I was following Agan's comment when I said mine until I saw that bolded in your post! It's the sort of thing you pass over when reading the rest of the post, but sticks in your mind...now I'm wondering if my thinking G55 suspicious was even my idea in the first place, or just my subconcious picking that up.
That's pretty much everything there is to werewolf, especially on day 1s. Someone gets the idea and half the people follow it. I'm not sure I agree with those who said this sounds genuine. Humble, yes, but I think it could go either way.

I accidentally scratched my eye and now it hurts. Just felt like sharing this with you because it's never happened before during these 8 years of long nails.

After looking at this it was hard for me to take all the rest (innocent and either) seriously, until I reached the part where she said she'll vote the mock-voters. That got me confused. Agan, where were you serious and where were you not?
Actually, the list was more serious than saying I'd vote for the mock-voters. If no one has said anything of value, then I have to do with the random stuff if I want to suspect somebody.

Aww Boro I hope everything is ok! *snuggles*

[Galadriel55]

I'm trying to get my brain around making a serious joke list. So you wanted to make a serious one but had nothing to go off of so made up random opinions?

I'll get it eventually.

[Galadriel55]

It's strangely quiet for an hour before DL. Who's votimg whom?


My opinion about Zil and Rune hasn't changed, but these are likely to be throwaways. But what's a throwaway if everyone puts a random name down at the last second?

[Loslote]

I like what Rune says. His reasoning is clear and makes sense - plus I agree with a lot of it.

G55 still tips my wolf-dar, partially because of the jumpy thing earlier (I know it's probably a pick-up from Agan's post, but that doesn't make it any less valid a point) and partially because her posts so far seem like they're contributing, but when you look closer, they aren't actually that helpful - clarifying Lottie vs Lommie, Bom's gender, and asking Agan to clarify which bits are serious...in I believe five separate posts, which ended up just keeping the question open without ever adding anything new to it. It seems to me like she's trying to appear helpful without actually contributing.

PomeNate is doing exceptionally well for a newbie. Kudos. :)

Shasta and Boro, for now, feel very much like their normal, innocent selves. Obviously not going to pass them off as definitely innocent, but I feel comfortable with not focusing my attention on them too much yet.

I can never read Agan, but as far as I can tell, there's nothing too horrifingly Mordorian going on in her posts as of yet.

Anyone else needs to post more so I can get a read on them. *coughBom*cough*Sally*cough*Zil*cough*Greenie*coug h*Glirdy*cough*Nog*cough*

EDIT: xed with two G55s. Would that be a 2G110?

[Aganzir]

I'm trying to get my brain around making a serious joke list. So you wanted to make a serious one but had nothing to go off of so made up random opinions?

I'll get it eventually.
If I say it was neither serious nor a joke, it obviously can't be a serious joke list. ;) Anyway I really don't see your issue with this. You seemed to take it as a joke until Boro said it's not, and you've made quite a fuss about it ever since. You also make me sound like I really really wanted to make a list because lists are the ultimate thing to do, or something (in other words, your interpretation of my actions is rather unflattering :p).

You're also starting to sound like Greenie. In a bad way. In a way that eventually makes me fight her every time we play together. ;) You can take it as a compliment if you like.

[Aganzir]

It's strangely quiet for an hour before DL. Who's votimg whom?
I'm actually thinking about voting for you. It's partly your strange insistence on my list, partly your slight jumpiness (compared to everyone else), and partly what Lottie just said ;) about your helpfulness without contributing a lot.

I'll try to get my thoughts in order.

By the way Lottie, I totally cracked up at 2G110. :D

[Inziladun]

Just returned from watching my daughter cheer a basketball game, and catching up.

[Loslote]

We've got another two hours, right? Or do I have DL wrong?

[Galadriel55]

G55 still tips my wolf-dar, partially because of the jumpy thing earlier (I know it's probably a pick-up from Agan's post, but that doesn't make it any less valid a point) and partially because her posts so far seem like they're contributing, but when you look closer, they aren't actually that helpful - clarifying Lottie vs Lommie, Bom's gender, and asking Agan to clarify which bits are serious...in I believe five separate posts, which ended up just keeping the question open without ever adding anything new to it. It seems to me like she's trying to appear helpful without actually contributing.

Indeed, the last few posts were quite empty. All of them, if you consider stretching an argument over many posts one thing. But do you have suggestions for some talk?

This Day1 is even quieter than Day Ones usually are. There's usually some morsel that everyone chews on until DL, but here the only thing we have to discuss is Boro's accusation and Agan's defense. That was the only "big thing". It seems that Agan was being Agan and Boro was being Oldman. That's settled. Now what?:(

I hope to be more helpful when there's something to do.

EDIT: xed with two G55s. Would that be a 2G110?

No, it would be that I have been cloned. :D

Edit: xed since #71

[Pitchwife]

We've got another two hours, right? Or do I have DL wrong?
One. Look at the time-stamps of my posts opening N1 and D1 - that's DL.

[Loslote]

One. Look at the time-stamps of my posts opening N1 and D1 - that's DL.

That explains why people are starting to state lynch options already! In that case, the only real suspect I've got toDay is G55, so I'll probably vote her.

[Glirdan]

Gah!!! I am terribly sorry for my lack of talking. Even though I have access in the palm of my hands at all times, it is terribly difficult to do anything involving reading on a phone.

I've been keeping up as much as possible with this hindrance, but only with some of the conversations., the main being between Agan and Boro, and even that is very shoddy as I have been quite busy since the Day started.

Now, I am not sure what to think concerning Agan and Boro. When I re-read Agan's first post after Boro voiced his initial concer of her, I found nothing overly suspicious in it myself. Actually, being the first to start any real form of discussion, I'd rather like to believe the opposite of Agan. However, with Boro gone for the Day, I would rather leave this and let it settle, at least for toDay, to let him gather his thoughts and deal with whatever happened. (and Boro, take the time you need my friend to deal with whatever happened).

Now, we're in a pickle as one of our most vocal players is out of commission for the time being and there are far too many of us flying under the radar, myself included.

I'm going to try and go back and read through some more as much as possible but I will not be able to respond for a little while.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

That explains why people are starting to state lynch options already! In that case, the only real suspect I've got toDay is G55, so I'll probably vote her.

Mine as well, although I could also vote Bom. I won't be voting Boro or Agan today, nor Rune for that matter.

[Inziladun]

Quick impressions of the Agan-Boro matter leave me unlikely to vote either of them.

Agan still comes across as fairly shiny to me (which from past experience ought to make me nervous :rolleyes:).

And I see what Boro's about, even if I don't agree. At any rate, he's been quite active, so let's see what else he does. Hopefully the difficult matter he's dealing with will quickly resolve.

Now for the others.

x/d with Shasta and Glirdy

[Galadriel55]

In that case, the only real suspect I've got toDay is G55, so I'll probably vote her.

You know, although your suspicion of me seems justified, you haven't considered that if you compare the amount of content provided by most other players to the amount of content provided by me you'll find them approximately equal. I've been much more chatty than others, though, so the number of posts kinda dilutes the impression.

Edit: xed since the post I quoted

[Aganzir]

GUILTY
Gal. I didn't really mind her until her sudden and desperate interest in my list which is just weird. What does it really matter?
Bom. I know this is way typical but I won't abstain from putting him here just because of it. If you suspect someone, state your reasons please.

INNOCENT
Shasta. Hasn't said a lot but I like him well enough. I don't know, it's just a gut feeling.
Lottie. I like her well enough for now.
Nat. Nothing alarming so far, actually I'm quite liking her gameplay.
Rune. Seems sensible enough and cannot really be blamed of opportunism - he tries to remain objective even though he doesn't really need to.
Inziladun. Someone said he's posting a lot without saying anything. I read his posts but they weren't really that bad even if they weren't overflowing with substance either. He looks passively innocent (apart from the former four who are actively so) and remains here because I refuse to vote for him.

EITHER
Boro. Gets the honour of topping my Either list. I grumbled about his behaviour before but it was out of principle rather than actual suspicion because I was pretty positive I knew at least partly what he was up to. He could set traps and baits regardless of role, and I need to see more before I'm willing to trust him.
Green. Is being herself. She comments vaguely on Boro & my argument, leaving a door open to further suspicion of us both but concluding with a statement of undecidedness. I won't deny my tendency to automatically see it as evil just because it's Greenie, but it's not actually suspicious.
Glirdan. Nothing.
Nogrod. Um?
sally. Nothing.

So. These are not based on a complete reread, they are serious, and they're still subject to change even today if I feel like it.

[satansaloser2005]

So, Galwolfriel, what are your plans for the Night?


EDIT: x'd since the start of the page

[Aganzir]

You know, although your suspicion of me seems justified, you haven't considered that if you compare the amount of content provided by most other players to the amount of content provided by me you'll find them approximately equal. I've been much more chatty than others, though, so the number of posts kinda dilutes the impression.
Ah so we face the hard decision: should we vote for a suspicious-ish (and with day 1 reasons at that) loud player, or a submarine?

Personally I quite like to sink submarines, but once I've got it into my head that someone is suspicious, they will keep irking me until I know for sure.

[Loslote]

You know, although your suspicion of me seems justified, you haven't considered that if you compare the amount of content provided by most other players to the amount of content provided by me you'll find them approximately equal. I've been much more chatty than others, though, so the number of posts kinda dilutes the impression.

My problem with your posting isn't so much that there's no substance, but that it seems to be trying to give the impression that there is, in fact, substance by bulking up what little substance there is - spreading one point over five posts without adding anything new at any point along the line, throwing out little comments that feel helpful but actually don't matter, that sort of thing. There's a difference between falsely "helpful" posts like yours and silly posts that make no pretense to helpfulness at all, in that the falsely "helpful" posts feel suspicious and silly posts feel more like something an innocent might do.

EDIT: xed with Agan

[Nogrod]

Oh Morgoth, I totally forgoth...

I actually came home some twenty minutes ago after a heavy two days of Youth Philosophy Convention I was one organiser of and sat down to my coach to have a small glass of brandy watching some College basketball before going to sleep... Oops. :(

Okay. I'll take a quick scroll. Half an hour left, right?

[Galadriel55]

What does it really matter?

Because I don't get it! :(

So, Galwolfriel, what are your plans for the Night?

Why, tearing somebody apart together with you, sallywolf. :rolleyes:

No, I am not serious, I am unlikely to survive till the Night at all, and I am innocent.

Edit: xed since sally

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Seems Innocent Enough:
Boromir: I had a bit of an ambivalent feeling about his now infamous “Oldman Defence”, but since then he has been impressive. He has show keen analytical skills and it will interesting to see what he has to say later on, when there actually is something to analyse.
Aganzir: I could follow her reasoning in her first post and since then she has been excellent at dealing with the questions thrown her way.
Pommy: I liked the initial post as it provoked a serious response, even if it was made in jest. Haven’t committed to a path as the other two in this category, but on a day1 it is acceptable. Has voiced some concerns and generally I have a good feeling about her (also an acceptable reason on day1)

Haven’t made up my mind ye (but inclined to think of as innocent):
Shasta: Interesting comment he had about how Galadriel tried to dismiss the topic when it started to generate too much attention, has seemed reasonable. On the other hand he hasn’t done too much and could be a BN trying sneak by on being just active enough.
Loslote: What she says seems reasonable, I think her suspicions against Galadriel are completely valid and she voices some concerns that I share. Of course one could think of a scenario, where going after Galadriel on the basis (maybe) of what Aganzir said would be a BN ploy. . .but I think that is entirely implausible.
Inziladun: Maybe it is because he could relate to what I said about the sillines that makes me think possitivly about Inzil, but anyways there haven’t been anything sneaky. Again could of course be BN on the low.

Don’t know enough to have an opinion:
Glirdan
Nogrod
A Little Green

Voting Potential:
Galadriel55: My suspicion is based on the arguments of Lottie, Shasta and my own initial annoyance. The jumpiness/many but not very helpful posts, mixed with the attempts to dismiss one discussion, whilst on the same time going on and on about Aganzir’s silly/serious post does present a case. That being said I she is right now the one I am least likely to vote for, because none of the above are very incriminating and because she has shown willingness to participate and move the debate forward (to some degree).
BomT: Just not good enough. I don’t really care if it is his style or not. Goofing around an entire day and not really making a contribution (even though clearly present) is not something that I believe is acceptable.Right now BomT is my top candidate for a vote.
Sally: Exactly the same as BomT

It is fair enough that you don’t have time to participate much everyday, and I do not expect everybody to come up with highly original thoughts, but don’t waste the time of your fellow rangers by not taking the game seriously.

[satansaloser2005]

No, I am not serious, I am unlikely to survive till the Night at all, and I am innocent.

Well, part of that is the truth, certainly....


EDIT: x'd with Rune

[Galadriel55]

Okay. I'll take a quick scroll. Half an hour left, right?

Yes.

Edit: xed since my last

[A Little Green]

You know, I didn't even realize that I was following Agan's comment when I said mine until I saw that bolded in your post! It's the sort of thing you pass over when reading the rest of the post, but sticks in your mind...now I'm wondering if my thinking G55 suspicious was even my idea in the first place, or just my subconcious picking that up.I can't make up my mind on this one. The honesty looks good, but then again, I'm not sure what's so very terrible about picking up an idea someone else voiced first. Generally, if you're innocent and suspect somebody for a reason, realizing that someone else has made the same point shouldn't necessarily cause you to backtrack, least of all this hastily. Whose idea some point originally was doesn't really matter if you find it valid. Then, later on, she returns to suspecting Gal, which is logical, but doesn't make the post quoted above make any more sense.

Now surely, one who was actively annoyed by the silly unproductivity of the early posts would not add further to it by making joke suspicions?Well, looks like we have a problem then, given that that was pretty much what I read Agan's first post as. :D (Anyway, Boro, hope you're all right, you know we love you.)

You're also starting to sound like Greenie. In a bad way.Is that possible? :Merisu:

To summarize some general thoughts and feelings -

- Agan and Boro will both get a pass from me today, if only out of gratitude for giving us something to talk about, but more prudently because I find both of them rather more innocent than not at the moment, or if one is a wolf I'm not sure enough which it is.

- Actually, what was originally a purely Agan-Boro-thing has expanded to involve also Lottie and Gal. I am speaking, of course, of the affair of Lottie suspecting Gal, initially basing her suspicion unconsciously on Agan's, later bringing up further points against her. The points are valid enough, but the thing is, Gal is another very easy Day 1 lynch which makes me uncomfortable with the whole thing.


EDIT: Gah, x-ed with a host!

[Loslote]

I can't make up my mind on this one. The honesty looks good, but then again, I'm not sure what's so very terrible about picking up an idea someone else voiced first. Generally, if you're innocent and suspect somebody for a reason, realizing that someone else has made the same point shouldn't necessarily cause you to backtrack, least of all this hastily. Whose idea some point originally was doesn't really matter if you find it valid. Then, later on, she returns to suspecting Gal, which is logical, but doesn't make the post quoted above make any more sense.

It wasn't so much that I was alarmed that Agan had made the same point, but that my first line was practically identical to hers ("Jumpy, are we?" and "Jumpy much?"). I found it a bit alarming that I could post something so similar to what she'd said and not have realized it - plus I didn't want to follow someone else's points so exactly and unconciously when I can't say for absolute certainty that she isn't trying to mislead me. ;)

[A Little Green]

Rune. Seems sensible enough and cannot really be blamed of opportunism - he tries to remain objective even though he doesn't really need to.That's exactly my scruple with him, though! He's sensible, yes, but the trying to remain objective is opportunism of sorts, isn't it? Leaving all doors open, waiting to see which looks the most promising?

Anyway, I wouldn't mind voting Lottie, actually. Don't want to vote Gal, she doesn't look like a wolf to me. Or I might take Rune's lead and go for someone not contributing.


EDIT: x-ed with Lottie

[Galadriel55]

At least one of those people pushing my lynch is a wolf. That much is clear. If I survive I'll look at them carefully, especially those who were trying to pull the psychology trick of saying that I'm to be lynched for ABC reasons without saying it outright, or concluding that I'm not suspicious enough.

Edit: xed with Greenie

[Aganzir]

Because I don't get it!
I live on paradoxes. I can try to explain it properly tomorrow if we're both alive, or if you're interested in hearing it even if you're dead, but more often than not I can't justify my way of thinking.

Is that possible? :Merisu:
No. It's not and you know it. And yes Gal it was a compliment, even if a slightly dubious one. ;)

I am worried about Greenie because while she's as sharp as always, she actually strikes me as innocent which is far from typical, as those who've played with us before can attest.

It wasn't so much that I was alarmed that Agan had made the same point, but that my first line was practically identical to hers ("Jumpy, are we?" and "Jumpy much?"). I found it a bit alarming that I could post something so similar to what she'd said and not have realized it - plus I didn't want to follow someone else's points so exactly and unconciously when I can't say for absolute certainty that she isn't trying to mislead me.
I was myself slightly concerned about you because of what Greenie just said but figured out the similarity between our comments and decided to let it pass.

[Galadriel55]

This looks very last minute...

Edit: xed with Agan

[A Little Green]

It wasn't so much that I was alarmed that Agan had made the same point, but that my first line was practically identical to hers ("Jumpy, are we?" and "Jumpy much?"). I found it a bit alarming that I could post something so similar to what she'd said and not have realized it - plus I didn't want to follow someone else's points so exactly and unconciously when I can't say for absolute certainty that she isn't trying to mislead me.Fair enough, though I still find the "now I'm wondering if my thinking G55 suspicious was even my idea in the first place" part rather sketchy.


EDIT: x-ed with Galagangal

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I don't recall ever seeing G55 mention the whole "dismissal" thing, even though I mentioned it twice. It may have gotten lost in the shuffle, but even so...

++G55

or

++G55

if Pitchmod prefers the red persuasion.

[Loslote]

Since I dislike last-minute vote scrambles (especially after last game!):

++G55

EDIT: xed with Shasta

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

++Bom Tombadillo

[Aganzir]

That's exactly my scruple with him, though! He's sensible, yes, but the trying to remain objective is opportunism of sorts, isn't it? Leaving all doors open, waiting to see which looks the most promising?
Yes that's true, it's just that it's so much easier to just latch onto someone else's suspicion, at least if you do it well enough not to get caught. I'm actually not sure if I've ever played with Rune Son of Fenrir though, so I don't presume to know what he'd do as a wolf.

At least one of those people pushing my lynch is a wolf. That much is clear. If I survive I'll look at them carefully, especially those who were trying to pull the psychology trick of saying that I'm to be lynched for ABC reasons without saying it outright, or concluding that I'm not suspicious enough.
I'm pretty sure that they (or we, if it please you ;)) will be looked at hard enough even if you die if you turn out innocent.

[A Little Green]

Nah. Don't want to leave it 'til the last minute flurry..

++ Lottie

It isn't much, but it's the best lead I have.


EDIT: x-ed with Lottie, Runne and Agan

[Galadriel55]

It seems this particular Ranger is a popular choice. Not that it would do you any good to lynch me, as you're like to find out if you do.

Edit: xed since Shasta

[Pitchwife]

if Pitchmod prefers the red persuasion.
He does indeed, in every possible sense of the word;). Kidding aside, I think I said so in the Admin thread - makes it easier to count votes for my old short-sighted eyes.

EDIT: Rune, highlight, please.

[Nogrod]

I haven't read all and it seems I have no time to do so (ten minutes left) so based on what I've read thus far I'm thinking of declining from voting toDay - a second time in my life of these games, I think.

I'm very sorry but it feels like really bad to vote someone without reading the thread first, on D1 with no ideas from previous Days.

[Aganzir]

It seems this particular Ranger is a popular choice. Not that it would do you any good to lynch me, as you're like to find out if you do.
Gal, what are you?

He does indeed, in every possible sense of the word;). Kidding aside, I think I said so in the Admin thread - makes it easier to count votes for my old short-sighted eyes.
:D:D

[Bom Tombadillo]

*sigh* I'm a bit lost now and without enough time to do a thorough reread, but . . .

++Rune Son of Bjarne

I dunno. He might be genuine, but attacking me specifically for lack of content just seems odd to me.

EDIT: X'd with everybody since G55's last post.

[Galadriel55]

Gal, what are you?

Galadriel55, Galadriel, Gal, Gal55, Galadriwolf, Galwolfriel, Wolf55, Nilpadriel, Galwurstiel, the lad lass, you there with a 55, probably something else as well...:D

[Inziladun]

I hate these Day 1 decisions.

I also hate making long lists, so I'm just noting what jumps out at me.

Like I said, Agan and Boro are off the table toDay.

I can see the merits of the G55 suspicion, though I also agree with Greenie that G55 has been a frequent target for the baddies to lynch. I might vote for her, though it seems too easy somehow.

Bom is being a bit more cagey than his usual self, I think, but it could be a time issue. I haven't been here myself toDay as much as I'd like. Like G55, he tends to garner quite a bit of lynching attention as a rule, but even more so. I don't think I'd want to go for him toDay, with the lack of anything else from him to go on.

I'm rather comfortable with Greenie.

I haven't seen nearly enough from Nog to have an opinion.
Same for Glirdy.

Lottie seems innocuous, and I can't really fault her for the G55 suspicion, though as I said a G55 lynch could be a worthy BN (Beastly Nosebag) endeavour.

Shasta is as enigmatic as ever to me. It usually takes time for me to get a handle on him.

Sally has been popping in and out, but I'm really hard-pressed to recall anything in particular she's said. Could be voteworthy as a submarine.

Rune? Eh, what I've seen looks all right.

x/d with all since #93.

[satansaloser2005]

++Rune Son of Bjarne

I dunno. He might be genuine, but attacking me specifically for lack of content just seems odd to me.

Yeah, because that's not suspicious....


EDIT: x'd since the post I quoted

[Aganzir]

Boro - none
Shasta - G55
Lottie - G55 2 (xed with Shasta)
Rune - Bom
Greenie - Lottie (xed with Lottie & Rune)
Nog - none
Bom - Rune

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

*sigh* I'm a bit lost now and without enough time to do a thorough reread, but . . .

++Rune Son of Bjarne

I dunno. He might be genuine, but attacking me specifically for lack of content just seems odd to me.

EDIT: X'd with everybody since G55's last post.

Not you specifically, at least not only you. I think the same can be said about Sally, the way you did it just annoyed me more.

I do think there is an argument to vote Galadriel, it is just not strong enough to convince me that it would be more beneficial than to get rid of people who does not seem to take the game seriously.

[satansaloser2005]

Bom or Galadriel. Opinions?


EDIT: x'd with Rune

[Nogrod]

But on the top discussion of toDay (what I read of it), I'm inclined to think both Agan & Boro innocent. Boro the more so - not so much because of his explanation the length of which actully is the only thing making me wonder, but because of his open offer to jump himself into the middle of discussion with his stuff on Agan. It just looks like very bad policy from a BN but reasonable spirit from an ordo.

[A Little Green]

Where is everybody?

[A Little Green]

Bom or Galadriel. Opinions?Both probably innocent if you ask me, but Gal contributes more, so I'd say Bom.

[Aganzir]

I can see the merits of the G55 suspicion, though I also agree with Greenie that G55 has been a frequent target for the baddies to lynch. I might vote for her, though it seems too easy somehow.
I feel your pain.

I'm really liking Inzil. I know it might be a mistake, but he looks fairly good to me at the moment (you know they say he looks like me, eheh when will I get tired of this joke?)

I don't like Bom, but then again I never do. Gal still seems like my best bet.

[Galadriel55]

Where is everybody?

Here.

[Aganzir]

++Galadriel

Suspiciousness over inactivity this time around.

edit: highlights! Sorry!

[Inziladun]

Darn it.

++G55

Looks worse than Lottie, I hate voting Bom Day 1, and it doesn't look like I'll have any takers on Sally. I'll not waste my vote.

[satansaloser2005]

I did say when I joined this game that I wouldn't participate in an arms race.

++Bom

Revenge votes are just tacky. :p


EDIT: x'd, and I care not with whom (though it was since my last post)

[Galadriel55]

++Bom

I wanna live, people. You wanna live too.

Edit: xed since my last

[Pitchwife]

DL. Silentium.

[Pitchwife]

The way this first Day of the Rangers’ trial began, Faramir’s stern words might as well have been spoken to the wind. Loslote seemed to think the nomenclature of fruit more important than finding the enemies hidden among them. Shasta showed off his strength by breaking a chain. Boromir chid Galadriel for her excessive use of emoticons*, then proceeded to recount his impressions of a story told in moving pictures (such as the Eldar are said to conjure up by their enchanting art) which he claimed to have seen and which purportedly told of the adventures of a crimson headdress. The cavern of Henneth Annûn seemed to have turned into a madhouse.

“What has happened to you?” barked grumpy old Nogrod, a veteran of many raids. “Have the evil servants made a spell and turned everyone into toddlers in a sandbox?” Disgusted by the indignity that had taken possession of the Rangers, he turned away and wasn’t heard again for a long time.

Thus called to order, the Rangers pulled themselves together, and the trial began in earnest. Boromir accused Aganzir of using a classic trick of Black Númenóreans, which led to some controversial discussion but no result.

“Galadriel seems jumpy,” observed Loslote. “It makes me think she has something to hide.”

“I haven’t,” said Galadriel, “and I’m not jumpy!”

“Yes you are,” said Aganzir, “and I said that first, by the way.” She took a spear and pricked Galadriel, who cried “Ouch!” and made a startled little jump.

“See?” said Pomegranate. “You’re jumpy!”

“Only because she pricked me!”

“Now you’re being overly defensive”, said Loslote. “A clear sign of guilt.” She picked up another spear and pricked Galadriel again.

“Stop doing that!” cried Galadriel. "It hurts!"

“She’s trying to stop us discussing her,” said Shasta. “I’d do that myself if I was a Black Númenórean.” He took up a third spear and joined the pricking.

“But none of this is very incriminating,” Rune objected. “What about Bom over there? He hasn’t done anything helpful all day.”

“Attacking me for lack of content?” said Bom. “That’s odd. Maybe you’re a spy yourself?”

Greenie agreed with Rune that Gal didn’t look like a servant of Sauron and said she wouldn’t mind executing Loslote instead. But when the hour of judgment came, the majority held Galadriel guilty.

“Pithwivion’s ghost demands blood!” exclaimed Shasta and drove the first spear into her, followed by Loslote a split second later.

“It won’t do you any good to lynch me,” protested Galadriel, blood bubbling on her lips from her pierced lungs, “as you’re likely to find out.” But she had hardly finished when Aganzir stabbed her with the third spear.

“I want to live!” cried Galadriel, her breath failing. “You want to live too!”

It was too late. Inziladun thrust the fourth and final spear into her heart, and she collapsed on the floor.

Holding their breath, the Rangers waited for the change that would reveal Galadriel’s true face. But nothing happened. Neither did they find any sign on her body when they examined the corpse. They searched her belongings, hoping for something else that would confirm her guilt, but only found a fine longsword of the best Dwarven steel which Galadriel had kept wrapped in a spare cloak.

"So that's what she was hiding!" somebody said. “Why didn’t she wear it on her? She might have used it to defend herself!”

“That blade was to protect you, not to hurt you,” said a ghostly voice that sounded like their dead comrade Pithwivion’s.

One after another, the Rangers’ faces turned pale as ashes as they realized they had slain their Night Guardian. Nobody would stand between them and Sauron’s assassins now.
______________________________________

*Quenya emóticon, correct plural emoticonti: technical term for a special class of tehtar used in some of the arcaner tengwar modes.

__________________________________________________ _____________

IT IS NOW NIGHT 2. Black Númenoreans, choose your kill. Faramir, choose your dream. Mablung and Damrod, you may talk. Everybody else, good night.

DEAD
Pitch (Mod) - pushed over the edge Night 1
Gal55 (Anborn) – pricked to death Day 1

ALIVE
Agan
Greenie
Bom
Boro
Glirdan
Inzil
Lottie
Nog
Nate
Rune
sally
Shasta

[Pitchwife]

Deep in the Night, when the other Rangers had finally managed to find some slumber, three figures rose stealthily and looked around them.

“The sleeping spell I have cast holds them firmly,” said one of them. “Nothing will wake them until Daylight.”

“It has gone well for us so far,” said another. “Better even than we could have expected.”

“Yes,” said the third, “the Great Eye will look fondly on us.”

It was then that they noticed that one of the cots was empty.

“Ah, him,” said the first Black Númenórean. “Up and about, is he? I think our choice for toNight has just been made for us.”

The second nodded. “Yes, he needs to be taken care of anyway. He is one of the few who might talk some sense into these pathetic Rangers.”

“But where can he have gone?” wondered the third.

“I think I know,” said the first. “Come!”

* * *

Nogrod had gone outside to smoke a pipe of sweet galenas, as was his wont. They found him sitting on a rock near the waterfall, puffing smoke rings and looking at the moon. When he heard their footsteps approaching, he turned around and raised an eyebrow.

“I did not expect you to come for me so early,” he said calmly. “I have barely said a word yesterDay.”

“And we have come to make sure it stays this way,” said the leader of the Black Númenóreans. At a gesture from him, his two accomplices seized Nogrod and held him so fast he could not move when their leader picked the pipe from his mouth.

“This weed is bad for you”, said the sorcerer, sniffing with a wrinkled nose. “No true servant of Annatar would consume it. Besides, you can die from it, did you know? As you will find out now.”

* * *

When the cavern lit up with Daylight, the Rangers awoke from dreams of blood and guilt. They soon discovered that Nogrod’s cot had not been slept in.

They didn’t have to search very long, but soon found him just outside the cavern, near the waterfall, lying dead on a slab of rock, his mouth gaping. When they examined the corpse, they found that his tongue was missing, and his pipe had been jammed down his throat.

“Is that supposed to be a pun?” said sally. “Wind-pipe? Abominable.”

It took them longer to find Nogrod’s tongue, which was nowhere on or near his body. But suddenly Greenie cried out in shock.

“What is it?” asked the others. “What have you found?”

She showed them Nogrod’s tobacco pouch. “It must have fallen out of his pocket when we moved the corpse,” she explained. “Look what’s inside.”
__________________________________________________ _____________

DAY 2 HAS BEGUN. Stop all PMing and let the trial continue.

DEAD
Pitch (Mod) - pushed over the edge Night 1
Gal55 (Anborn) – pricked to death Day 1
Nog (ordo) - silenced with a pipe down his windpipe on Night 2

ALIVE
Agan
Greenie
Bom
Boro
Glirdan
Inzil
Lottie
Nate
Rune
sally
Shasta

[Pomegranate]

Touching, this is, the loss of Nogrod. Peace to his soul.

Now, we need to continue searching for the merciless killers. To be honest, because I was so ashamed after all the praises I got of being a good first-timer and then missing the deadline of the voting, I felt the need to concentrate and build up something. So I've got a list, which has the who-votes-for-who and other observations.

A Little Green votes for Lottie because of her sudden jump when she (supposedly) realised she was following Agan’s lead. Stays on this point rather a long while. Believes Agan and Boro innocent. Believes also Bom and G55 innocent. Comments on Rune’s opportunism, but doesn’t take that any further. Doesn’t want to vote for Agan or G55 because they are easy first day lynches.

Rune Son of Bjarne voted for Bom because of unconstructiveness. Does not believe in Boro’s theory about Aganzir, not enough anyway to vote for her, and actually says they both seem innocent. Does suspect G55 but not enough to vote for her, either. Goes after the unconstructive. I noticed Rune has a lot of allies (people he has a good feeling about, and this is mutual), most striking of which is Lottie, of whom he says “What she says seems reasonable” “she voices some concerns that I share” (see Lottie as well). Similar, though less obvious, mutual trust with Shasta and Inzil. Begs for constructiveness but actually himself mainly comments what others have found out by declaring it not suspicious enough, without new ideas, and giving his vote based on unconstructiveness, leaving doors open as Greenie said.

satansaloser2005 voted for Bom because of his ‘revenge vote’ for Rune, after asking from everyone the opinion whether she should vote for G55 or Bom. Sally has actually said nothing beneficial, nothing in any way actually related to suspicions (except her comment on the revenge vote, which was that one sentence and then led to a vote). In her vote she went with the two popular suspects (or I guess Bom wasn’t that much of a suspect than just questioned for his lack of contribution). Hard to believe this is because of the lack of time, because her total number of posts is big – they just don’t have any points in them.

Bom Tombadillo voted for Rune because of his vote. Is, as was mentioned, unconstructive, though defends it in his first post by saying he has not enough time to follow. Suspects vaguely Shasta, though mostly feeling-based, and doesn’t comment that any further.

Loslote votes for G55 because of her jumpiness and her being around and giving the impression of contributing. Actually comes up with own points about G55. On Rune: “I like what Rune says. His reasoning is clear and makes sense - plus I agree with a lot of it.” (see Rune)

Shastanis Althreduin votes for G55 for her habit of trying to move the conversation away from herself. This is the only observation she makes. Says she won’t vote for Rune, saying she agrees with what he said without further defining why.

Inziladun votes for G55 because she seems more suspicious than Lottie. Against Lottie she didn’t actually say anything until that point. Doesn’t suspect Boro or Agan. Makes a list, with not a lot of observations, mainly commenting on Bom’s and Sally’s unconstructiveness and the innocent or unclear feeling about anyone else. Comments there, though, the suspiciousness of G55. Trusts Rune, though only in an overall pretty trusting list.

Glirdan doesn’t vote, and doesn’t contribute. In his case this does seem like lack of time, so it’s hard to see him as either innocent or BN. Doesn’t suspect Boro or Agan. Hoping he becomes more active, so there’s something to say about him.

And then there is Aganzir, who voted for G55 because of the same reasons as everyone else, and
Boromir88, who didn’t vote because of a medical emergency (even if not his own, hope Max is all right). To be honest, I don’t feel like I have a lot of new things to add to the analysis of their conversation, which lasted the whole of the last day. Agan made a list, putting in things people actually said, Boro used it as a bait to get reactions, it worked. From what it seems, these both are pretty typical ways of acting to these players.

Gee, that was a lot of bolding. So I guess my personal main observations from that list are Rune and his allies and his pretty non-substantial and pretty objective posting (though far from sally and Bom, but they have been mentioned before and at least they don't accuse others for their own sins). Also it feels like Greenie accuses Rune of being an opportunist in kiiping the doors open, then realises that she's doing the same, picks up her so far pretty non-pressed argument against Lottie and sticks to it for quite a while.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

We seem to have different ideas about what is constructive in a game of werewolf. I would never demand of people that they produce highly original and substantial posts on day1, but I do expect a minimum of effort and seriousness.

Anyways, I think you produced a nice post to get this day going.

[Inziladun]

Why Nog? What did he do?

Introducing the grumpy Finns, Part 2.

Faramir acts like a ranger, Pitwivion did so... but what has happened to all the rest of you? Have the evil servants made a spell and turned everyone into toddlers in a sandbox so that they can hide more easily behind the veil of sallyness... erm... silliness?


Kudos to Nate for at least trying.


Heh. Complaining, but not doing anything myself? Admitted.

Sorry. I'm in a hurry right now but I should be able to hang around later toDay - and as it is Saturday I can hang around until the end then.

First post. Not much, just an admonishment about the excessive amount of flippancy and general unruliness. Gives a thumbs up to Pom for trying to keep things on track.

Oh Morgoth, I totally forgoth...

I actually came home some twenty minutes ago after a heavy two days of Youth Philosophy Convention I was one organiser of and sat down to my coach to have a small glass of brandy watching some College basketball before going to sleep... Oops. :(

Okay. I'll take a quick scroll. Half an hour left, right?

A glass of brandy, eh? Wish I had one.

I haven't read all and it seems I have no time to do so (ten minutes left) so based on what I've read thus far I'm thinking of declining from voting toDay - a second time in my life of these games, I think.

I'm very sorry but it feels like really bad to vote someone without reading the thread first, on D1 with no ideas from previous Days.

Decides to abstain from voting, due to not having enough time to read.

But on the top discussion of toDay (what I read of it), I'm inclined to think both Agan & Boro innocent. Boro the more so - not so much because of his explanation the length of which actully is the only thing making me wonder, but because of his open offer to jump himself into the middle of discussion with his stuff on Agan. It just looks like very bad policy from a BN but reasonable spirit from an ordo.

And that's it. Is feeling good about Boro, and to a lesser extent, Agan. I agree with this.

No real signs of anything that could have pointed at Nog as a Seer, so a no-trace kill seems the likely factor.

I'll try to get to the G55 votes in a bit, though Pom, as Rune pointed out, has gotten the ball rolling decently.

[Boromir88]

Why Nog? What did he do?

That would appear to be the point now wouldn't it? Get to Nog before he actually had more time and care to start participating more. Confident pack of wolves it would seem.

And that's it. Is feeling good about Boro, and to a lesser extent, Agan. I agree with this.


That is what has me worried the most at the moment...that is there seems to be a lot of "Agan and Boro are probably both innocent" going around. It could easily be true, of course, but that seems to be the same conclusion everyone's reached, which is kind of strange...Agan, what do you think?

[Inziladun]

That is what has me worried the most at the moment...that is there seems to be a lot of "Agan and Boro are probably both innocent" going around. It could easily be true, of course, but that seems to be the same conclusion everyone's reached, which is kind of strange...Agan, what do you think?

I'm not ready to declare you both innocent, but neither of you are tops on the radar at the moment.

I still feel rather good about Agan as a holdover from yesterDay, and I can't really fault her for the G55 vote.

As for you, it's just difficult to see your actions in an evil light. You've been in the thick of things as a baddie before, yes. But what I've seen thus far looks all right. Should I start suspecting you?

[satansaloser2005]

That would appear to be the point now wouldn't it? Get to Nog before he actually had more time and care to start participating more. Confident pack of wolves it would seem.

I would actually draw the opposite conclusion. The villains likely thought Nog would be onto them once he really got into the game, so they killed him before he could do any damage. Thus, a nervous pack, not a confident one.

[Boromir88]

As for you, it's just difficult to see your actions in an evil light. You've been in the thick of things as a baddie before, yes. But what I've seen thus far looks all right. Should I start suspecting you?

The one thing Nog did contribute to the discussion, at least about me, was spot on. But I suspect your suspecting question is rhetorical.

I'm basically trying to figure out whether I should full out pull the trigger and by focusing/going after Agan, or if all the "They're both probably innocent" is in fact true, but that would mean there has to be wolves stating it too. And I would have figured wolves would enjoy an innocent-Agan and innocent-Boro having a good row at eachother...which makes me go back to thinking that Agan could very well be a BN and is hoping if everyone is stating we're both likely innocent, that gets me off her case. But then, I could just be losing my touch at pulling off an excellent and convincing fake fight, ergo, wolves aren't buying it.

Basically my head is about to explode with "do I continue pursuing Agan or is everyone right, that she's innocent too."

But really Agan, you had to choose a pic that showed my horrendous tanlines? I should try to get you lynched just for that. :p

Edit: crossed with sally. Confident in the sense of, it doesn't appear they were going after the seer, so they must be confident the seer won't be a threat to them yet.

[Inziladun]

But really Agan, you had to choose a pic that showed my horrendous tanlines? I should try to get you lynched just for that. :p

You know, there's a way to avoid tan lines you could try. That is, as long as there's a couple hundred miles between us.

Quiet, innit? Doesn't look like I'll get around to looking at the votes tonight. I'm tired, and not that anyone really cares, but my 0515 wakeup is staring at me.

I'm hoping to see more activity when I return. Especially some of the more quiet ones like Shasta, Glirdan, and Sally; and I'm interested in what Bom has to say as well.

[Glirdan]

I would actually draw the opposite conclusion. The villains likely thought Nog would be onto them once he really got into the game, so they killed him before he could do any damage. Thus, a nervous pack, not a confident one.

I dont know about that one. I'm more inclined to agree with Boro. I mean, with the exception of Nate, we all know how dangerous an innocent/gifted Noggy is to the Wolves. Its already been said: why him? Well, it was a pretty traceless kill for them. Yet the same could be said had it been myself, or Shasta or any of the other quiet ones. I feel a nervous pack would have been a little more hesitant in their kill selection which also leads me to believe that the Wolves want us to think this way. For all we know, either you yourself dear sallycake or Boro or maybe even both could have been the ones planning this during the night to help steer the conversation in the direction you so choose.

I'm hoping to see more activity when I return. Especially some of the more quiet ones like Shasta, Glirdan, and Sally; and I'm interested in what Bom has to say as well.

I am doing my best today. Only impediment during this Day is work, which isn't until the end of the Day.

Now, I hate picking on Newbies....yet something about Nate's first post toDay does not sit well. I'm not sure what it is....maybe it's her wording....maybe it's the over sincerity of having forgotten to vote yesterDay. Okay. Now I'm going to go re-read (and read) yesterDay's posts. I'll be around but it may take me awhile to respond. *grumbles about the lack of a desktop computer/lapto and lack of Internet*

[Glirdan]

Okay....I kinda understand Agan's (and others) frustrations yesterDay with all of the IC posting and banter. It was rather irksome having to read through them again (for a good page at least I may add) and not have anything overly substantial to read.

Anyways, in my reading I noticed something. Lottie seems very....wish washy I think is the term I am looking for. This could just be me and my tendency of suspecting Lottie. She starts off with this

Really, though, that much defensiveness about a Day 1, semi-IC post (from a first-time player, no less) makes me think that you might have something to hide. G55 just jumped to the top of my suspect list.

This happens to be her second post of the Day and already has G55 at the top of her suspect list for being overly defensive apparently. I don't see the over defensiveness by the way.

When Boro starts explaing his leeriness of Agan, he says this:

And we have the classic "let me give you all some suspicions, see which ones stick, but distract you with threatening to vote those who are being less helpful at the moment" trick. That is to say, you were willing to vote based on either being annoyed, or to scare Bom, Glirdan, and sally into shaping up and NOT based on suspicions...yet you did the whole "let me give you some suspicions" thing well enough. And it seems to have worked since Lottie has now jumped on your comment about G55 being "jumpy"...wow we are a jumping bunch today.

And at the end of the post:

(See what I mean Agan? Lottie jumps at your jumpy comment, and now Pomegranate follows Lottie)

As soon as she reads this post, Lottie starts changing her tune.

You know, I didn't even realize that I was following Agan's comment when I said mine until I saw that bolded in your post! It's the sort of thing you pass over when reading the rest of the post, but sticks in your mind...now I'm wondering if my thinking G55 suspicious was even my idea in the first place, or just my subconcious picking that up.

What's really bothering me is how easily swayed she is by others and its things like that that make me leery. Trying to appease everyone is a tactic seen and used many times before by wolves, or BN's in our case. Now, I will give her credit for sticking to her guns and voting for G55 anyways. Yet she was a part of the reason we lost our Guardian, and if I'm correct, the leading cause. Now, it's quite possible that Lottie is simply a misled innocent and I wouldn't mind hearing a little more from her myself.

However, there are others who voted for G55 who need to be looked at it....or in Shasta's case, need to be heard from.

For now, I'm off. It's getting kinda late and I didn't sleep well last night. I will be back later in the Day.

[Pomegranate]

Glirdan has a point here, which has similarities to the point Greenie was after yesterDay. However, Lottie was the first one to come up with a lot of the points about G55, first one to actually start accusing her, and that would seem such forwardiness that if she was a wolf and knew G55 to be innocent she should've avoided. That kind of action would (and probably will) put her in the spotlight.

I think we should keep frying Lottie a bit, to see what she's up to, but I myself worry more about the follow-ups. Especially Inzil. In her voting-post, she says (gosh, I'm so bad with these, my apologies for everyone who changes genders in my posts) :

Darn it.

++G55

Looks worse than Lottie, I hate voting Bom Day 1, and it doesn't look like I'll have any takers on Sally. I'll not waste my vote.

"I don't have any takers on sally"? I don't think she ever suggested voting for sally, or suspected her, unless it counts that in her list she mentions "could be voteworthy as a submarine", this being on the penultimate place on her list. This mentioning sally and the others in the voting post seems to me more like trying to hide the fact that she is voting for G55, like she would be reluctant. However, she and Agan are the one who finalise G55's faith by their last-minute votes.

And actually, Glirdan, I think its good that you're suspecting me. I think I've gotten off the suspect list for long enough by being a newbie. Not that I would want anyone to especially think I'm a baddie, but I think now since its Day 2 we should broaden our radar to anyone, not just the couple of the loudest ones.

[Loslote]

Anyways, in my reading I noticed something. Lottie seems very....wish washy I think is the term I am looking for.

Really? You know, I do sort of expect you to suspect me at least a little bit by now, but I like to understand where you're coming from when you do. I started off with one post suspecting G55, was taken aback when I realized I'd practically quoted Agan without knowing it, read over G55 and Agan's posts for a bit, decided it wasn't nessecarily that bad, and continued suspecting G55. You seem to be reading my posts as a continuous stream of suspicion with a sudden 180 in the middle. It was more of a sudden stop, look around, think for a moment, and then continue sort of deal. Again, issue with the term "wishy-washy". ;)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I thought the choice to kill Nogrod was fairly straight forward, but apparently I was wrong. Any BN that does not jump at the chance to make a no trace kill of Nogrod, would not be doing their job properly. The only reasons not to do it, would be if they suspected that Nogrod would get himself lynched or that he was being protected at night.

Crossed with Loslote

[Inziladun]

I dont know about that one. I'm more inclined to agree with Boro. I mean, with the exception of Nate, we all know how dangerous an innocent/gifted Noggy is to the Wolves. Its already been said: why him? Well, it was a pretty traceless kill for them. Yet the same could be said had it been myself, or Shasta or any of the other quiet ones. I feel a nervous pack would have been a little more hesitant in their kill selection which also leads me to believe that the Wolves want us to think this way. For all we know, either you yourself dear sallycake or Boro or maybe even both could have been the ones planning this during the night to help steer the conversation in the direction you so choose.

I don't really see the benefit of trying to gauge the "nervousness' of the pack from their Night-kill. I think it's enough that it seems very unlikely Nog could have been seen as a potential Seer. Thus, there is little to gain at this point by still focusing on the issue.


Now, I hate picking on Newbies....yet something about Nate's first post toDay does not sit well. I'm not sure what it is....maybe it's her wording....maybe it's the over sincerity of having forgotten to vote yesterDay. Okay. Now I'm going to go re-read (and read) yesterDay's posts. I'll be around but it may take me awhile to respond. *grumbles about the lack of a desktop computer/lapto and lack of Internet*

It's worth noting again how quickly Nate/Pom (did we ever decide on which nick was the favorite?) has gotten the hang of this. Could be a sign of a sharp, natural player, but a more sinister reason has to be at least considered.

What's really bothering me is how easily swayed she is by others and its things like that that make me leery. Trying to appease everyone is a tactic seen and used many times before by wolves, or BN's in our case. Now, I will give her credit for sticking to her guns and voting for G55 anyways. Yet she was a part of the reason we lost our Guardian, and if I'm correct, the leading cause. Now, it's quite possible that Lottie is simply a misled innocent and I wouldn't mind hearing a little more from her myself.

Glirdan has a point here, which has similarities to the point Greenie was after yesterDay. However, Lottie was the first one to come up with a lot of the points about G55, first one to actually start accusing her, and that would seem such forwardiness that if she was a wolf and knew G55 to be innocent she should've avoided. That kind of action would (and probably will) put her in the spotlight.

Also, Lottie's vote for G55 wasn't the first, that was Shasta's. But Lottie crossed with Shasta so she thought she was making the first vote there.
Now, starting a bandwagon isn't necessarily a terrible risk for baddies, but I thought Lottie's case was sound enough by Day One standards.

I think we should keep frying Lottie a bit, to see what she's up to, but I myself worry more about the follow-ups. Especially Inzil. In her voting-post, she says (gosh, I'm so bad with these, my apologies for everyone who changes genders in my posts) :

"I don't have any takers on sally"? I don't think she ever suggested voting for sally, or suspected her, unless it counts that in her list she mentions "could be voteworthy as a submarine", this being on the penultimate place on her list. This mentioning sally and the others in the voting post seems to me more like trying to hide the fact that she is voting for G55, like she would be reluctant. However, she and Agan are the one who finalise G55's faith by their last-minute votes.

First off, it is he in my case. I know the player details can be confusing. A perusal of the thread whence came this (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=634488&postcount=1007) might help to clear up some of the ambiguity.

The only ones I felt comfortable voting for when it came to it were G55 and Sally. Since it was obvious no one else was concerned about Sally, I went with G55.
Some say one should vote for whomever one finds suspicious, regardless of circumstances, but I don't think that's useful. A throwaway vote is a wasted vote.

[Pomegranate]

But the fact is, you didn't actually voice your concerns about sally either. If you would've actually wanted for other people to follow your lead, you could've at least said it out, preferably outside of your list. Now it just feels like you didn't want to actually start accusing her (because someone might've noticed that if she was killed and an ordo), you hoped someone else would, and when they did not you just followed everyone else.

And in this I agree with Rune, I saw the kill of Nogrod as a straightforward thing, that's why I didn't comment it on my first post. From what I know about him, I'm not surprised he's good in this game (you'd all be surprised about how much I know about you, bwaha - thank you, my close IRL darlings). Plus by killing him they didn't rise any suspicions on anyone in particular, which is an easy solution.

And to question my getting the hang of this - yes, I'm a newbie to the forum, but I'm not new to the game, although this is a bit of a different version than the ones I've played before, both online and live. It might explain something.

edit. Ugly spelling.

[Inziladun]

But the fact is, you didn't actually voice your concerns about sally either. If you would've actually wanted for other people to follow your lead, you could've at least said it out, preferably outside of your list. Now it just feels like you didn't want to actually start accusing her (because someone might've noticed that if she was killed and an ordo), you hoped someone else would, and when they did not you just followed everyone else.

At the time I made that list (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=666139&postcount=110) DL was almost there. All the votes at that time had been for G55, Bom, and Lottie. No one was even talking about Sally, and I had to make up my mind in a hurry.

Take it as you like.

And to question my getting the hang of this - yes, I'm a newbie to the forum, but I'm not new to the game, although this is a bit of a different version than the ones I've played before, both online and live. It might explain something.

Noted.

[Glirdan]

Really? You know, I do sort of expect you to suspect me at least a little bit by now, but I like to understand where you're coming from when you do. I started off with one post suspecting G55, was taken aback when I realized I'd practically quoted Agan without knowing it, read over G55 and Agan's posts for a bit, decided it wasn't nessecarily that bad, and continued suspecting G55. You seem to be reading my posts as a continuous stream of suspicion with a sudden 180 in the middle. It was more of a sudden stop, look around, think for a moment, and then continue sort of deal. Again, issue with the term "wishy-washy".

I wasn't too comfortable with that term myself. And as I said at the end of the post, I give you credit for sticking to G55 and voting for her regardless, or did you miss that bit? I'm still leery about you. However, Zil also brought up an excellent point in your defense: you had though you voted first. Voting first an sticking to your guns as much as you had is way too bold a move for a Wolf, especially this early in the game. Yet you're not entirely off my radar.

And may I inquire as to why it is so quiet?? Where is everyone. *goes to airport to fly to everyone's house just to tell them to start posting*

[Boromir88]

And to question my getting the hang of this - yes, I'm a newbie to the forum, but I'm not new to the game, although this is a bit of a different version than the ones I've played before, both online and live. It might explain something.


Oh? Well, I guess then I don't need these anymore, if I decide to start going after you? *takes off fluffy-soft gloves* :p

In all seriousness, it definitely appears you know the game well, so I for one, will no longer treat you newbily. Which may not be a pleasant thing, but it would help if I actually suspected you seriously for something.

And since I basically agree with you on Inzil, I'm more inclined to trust you for the time being.

I know when he's busy he can seem rushed and agreeing. But he also should know by now saying you want to hear more from sally and Bom is like just saying something to say it. If that makes sense? They're easy targets for wolves because it's easy to get people to agree "vote for the submarines!"

But I know they're also frustrating for wolves, because if you don't say anything, than wolves can't twist anything to make it look bad. See, me, it's easy. If the wolves really wanted to get me lynched I'm sure they can find a bunch of stuff to manipulate and use against me...the trouble is I bombard with long and fanciful posts, it's overwhelming and usually not worth the effort. :p Much easier to continue the "sally and Bom need to say more" argument...when in fact you know

1) They won't

leading to...

2) Easier to convince innocents to lynch 'em

This is at least where I understand Rune's frustration, since he's been out of the dynamics for a while, and probably hasn't played with many of us...I can't remember the last time I played a game with Rune. Anyway, he seems genuinely not used to this many submarines and fluff posters.

Edit: Believe it or not crossed with Glirdan...visitor came who I had to entertain briefly.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

As has been said, it looks like laying odds that Nog was taken out while it was safe to do so is probably what happened.

Going through Day 2 thus far now -

That is what has me worried the most at the moment...that is there seems to be a lot of "Agan and Boro are probably both innocent" going around. It could easily be true, of course, but that seems to be the same conclusion everyone's reached, which is kind of strange...Agan, what do you think?

That does have me concerned, to be honest. Could be just that I'm me and you're you, though. :p

I dont know about that one. I'm more inclined to agree with Boro. I mean, with the exception of Nate, we all know how dangerous an innocent/gifted Noggy is to the Wolves. Its already been said: why him? Well, it was a pretty traceless kill for them. Yet the same could be said had it been myself, or Shasta or any of the other quiet ones. I feel a nervous pack would have been a little more hesitant in their kill selection which also leads me to believe that the Wolves want us to think this way. For all we know, either you yourself dear sallycake or Boro or maybe even both could have been the ones planning this during the night to help steer the conversation in the direction you so choose.

Eh? I'm not really sure what you're saying here, because it looks like you're agreeing with Boro in one breath and then suspecting him in the next.

However, there are others who voted for G55 who need to be looked at it....or in Shasta's case, need to be heard from.

*raises eyebrow* Really now.

I'm going to ignore that comment for now, save for one of my own about stones and glass houses, and focus on your theory regarding Lottie - which is interesting; however it doesn't look any different to me than normal D1 Lottie when there's nothing yet to go on. In fact, I've seen worse from Lottie than "jumpiness" (generally something to do with something someone posted in IC.)

I don't really see the benefit of trying to gauge the "nervousness' of the pack from their Night-kill. I think it's enough that it seems very unlikely Nog could have been seen as a potential Seer. Thus, there is little to gain at this point by still focusing on the issue.

This is an issue I have every game - I don't understand why people decide not to look at the information that's right in front of them. Nogrod was chosen to be killed for some reason - why not make use of that information?

It's worth noting again how quickly Nate/Pom (did we ever decide on which nick was the favorite?) has gotten the hang of this. Could be a sign of a sharp, natural player, but a more sinister reason has to be at least considered.

This is probably one of the more specious reasons I've seen for suspecting someone. However, it's generally a given that a newbie is considered "hard to lynch" in their first game, so I don't really see Inzilawolf making an effort to lynch an innocent Nate. Still.

Shastanis Althreduin votes for G55 for her habit of trying to move the conversation away from herself. This is the only observation she makes. Says she won’t vote for Rune, saying she agrees with what he said without further defining why.

Heh. It's actually "he".

But I know they're also frustrating for wolves, because if you don't say anything, than wolves can't twist anything to make it look bad. See, me, it's easy. If the wolves really wanted to get me lynched I'm sure they can find a bunch of stuff to manipulate and use against me...the trouble is I bombard with long and fanciful posts, it's overwhelming and usually not worth the effort. Much easier to continue the "sally and Bom need to say more" argument...when in fact you know

1) They won't

leading to...

2) Easier to convince innocents to lynch 'em

I don't know that I agree with this - generally that leads to...

3) Deciding "we can't afford to waste a lynch on a submarine - if they win they don't deserve it" and moving on.

[Inziladun]

But I know they're also frustrating for wolves, because if you don't say anything, than wolves can't twist anything to make it look bad. See, me, it's easy. If the wolves really wanted to get me lynched I'm sure they can find a bunch of stuff to manipulate and use against me...the trouble is I bombard with long and fanciful posts, it's overwhelming and usually not worth the effort. :p Much easier to continue the "sally and Bom need to say more" argument...when in fact you know

1) They won't

leading to...

2) Easier to convince innocents to lynch 'em

This is at least where I understand Rune's frustration, since he's been out of the dynamics for a while, and probably hasn't played with many of us...I can't remember the last time I played a game with Rune. Anyway, he seems genuinely not used to this many submarines and fluff posters.

Come on, Boro. Do you really think submarines should be allowed to just lie low while the loudmouths duke it out? It's pretty difficult to get a handle on people when they either don't post, or stick to banter.

[Bom Tombadillo]

Bllllrg. As Glirdan said, awfully quiet today. Maybe the wolves are trying to keep their heads down?

I wasn't really bothered by PomPom's swift skill - I assumed she'd done what I did, which was to read several games before actually joining one (or the 'Downs themselves). I did consider the alternative but since it was D1 at the time, she got a newbie pass.

Regarding this:

Nogrod was chosen to be killed for some reason - why not make use of that information?

from Shasta, I do believe the problem is: what information? Nog made a total of four posts, all substance-less with the exception of a statement that he thinks both Boro and Agan innocent. No suspicions, and nobody suspected him.

So, we've basically got the same things to discuss as yesterday, except we're now two innocents closer to defeat.

I'll check in periodically to see if the aforementioned wolves decide to poke their heads up, and possibly to mingle with you commons. :p No promises, though. :D

[Pomegranate]

Shasta: Sorry. I'll get these right eventually. The images in my head get clearer all the time. ;)

[Boromir88]

I don't know that I agree with this - generally that leads to...

3) Deciding "we can't afford to waste a lynch on a submarine - if they win they don't deserve it" and moving on.

Heh, yeah, guess it does usually turn out that way.

I like the points in Shasta's post, and therefor, barring something unforseen, won't vote for him today.

Come on, Boro. Do you really think submarines should be allowed to just lie low while the loudmouths duke it out? It's pretty difficult to get a handle on people when they either don't post, or stick to banter.

No. I've actually had this convo with tp (and I think Agan?) before. It's increasingly difficult to do much of anything if there's a bunch of fluff posting. And it used to be a great wolfy tactic because when a village gets loaded with people like tp, Nog, Agan, Sauce, Eomer, myself...and etc there were some pretty epic firestorms. And the pack could sit back, let us lynch eachother off, or maybe one of them would be a wolf to stir the entire pot.

Ah well, that trip down WW memory doesn't help much...but maybe I just need a good spar again...any takers?

Thing to realize is though, it's been changing for a while now, and there is more quiet and watch than active pot-stirrers. I mean, thankfully Inzil I never feel like you're submarining, but I also wouldn't classify you into the dwindling list of loud blabberers either. :p You've got a style that suits you, good, hopefully you like and enjoy it.

Point being here, hope sally doesn't mind if I use her as an example. She's really not that hard to figure out, and she definitely posts a lot but feels more inclined to amuse the mod, and if innocent, obviously will help by figuring out who's judgement she can trust and hopefully that leads to lynching wolves. But she'll always for the most part, keep whatever her thoughts are secret, until she figures out who's trustworthy and who isn't. Same thing, she's got a style, it suits her and hopefully she enjoys it.

I guess someone's got to try to get more activity out of the submarines? I gave up on that many years ago. Good luck. But don't confuse quiet behavior with blatant unhelpfulness. You know as well as I do, BNs need to give off an impression of being contributive and helping.

In the end, Agan's comment to Greenie is quite appropriate:

Boro is never genuine. No matter what his role, he always has something up his sleeve and is no good to trust.

Sad, but true. Not-trusting me is probably the smartest thing she's ever done. Although our history is a bit different, since her first wolvish game...against the counsels of her pack-mate Mith, I conned her into attacking me. Our WW-relationship is totally built on distrust...it's a lovely thing.

Thing is, in a pack environment, if necessary I will always take the noose to serve the better benefit of the pack...and that means the innocents can never trust me. But you also know, by now, that I will ruthlessly go after packmates if it will make me look better and more trusty to the village...therefor mates are silly if they trust me.

In an individual environment, I rarely ever want to be lynched...I mean seriously who likes that? But being able only to trust my own mind, again, I will do whatever necessary to save my innocent and pretty neck. Which means, who ever wants to tango, better bring a sword, because I do bring swords to dance offs.

[Boromir88]

I suppose I should look at the G55 business of Day 1, since I'm kind of kicking myself for not being in a position to possibly save her from the noose, and seeing as she turned out to be Anborn, her posts will be the most trusty to follow and innocent intentions.

Aye, that's the rub. You can only truly trust someone once they're dead, but it's a bad dilemma because lynching someone to see if you can actually trust them is completely counter-productive.

Seriously, though it's appallingly silly this place is coasting along, seemingly fine with the fact Anborn was lynched.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

OK, lets go over Galadriel's activity then.
Lets meet back here in 30-45 minutes with our thoughts.

(Just saying that I am here and should remain so until deadline)

[Glirdan]

I'm going to ignore that comment for now, save for one of my own about stones and glass houses.

Is this your way of trying to play nice with me for a game? Because you know that will not happen, especially since I will never trust you in WW after our games at Bostonmoot. I'm not saying that I'm going to go and vote you for having been silent yesterDay, because that would make me a hypocrite, which you oh so subtly pointed out. But I wouldn't mind hearing your own reasonings for voting G55.

Eh? I'm not really sure what you're saying here, because it looks like you're agreeing with Boro in one breath and then suspecting him in the next.

1) Nowhere did I say I believed him innocent. If anything, I have less trust for Boro in these games then I have for you.

2) I agreed with him in thinking this pack is confident and bold. Which is Boro in a nutshell. We would be crazy to fully trust him. And yet, I did not outwardly say that I suspect him. I was pointing out a fact: Boro likes to steer conversations to his own benefit, much like tp, only with less ego. Noggins death on Night 2 is sure to be a conversation starter for numerous reasons, and one that a BN Boro could start and steer in any direction he chooses.

3) I also mentioned Sally in that post, or did you miss that?

This is an issue I have every game - I don't understand why people decide not to look at the information that's right in front of them. Nogrod was chosen to be killed for some reason - why not make use of that information?

from Shasta, I do believe the problem is: what information? Nog made a total of four posts, all substance-less with the exception of a statement that he thinks both Boro and Agan innocent. No suspicions, and nobody suspected him.

I am definitely more inclined to agree with Shasta in this regard. True, Nog himself hasn't left us much to go on. But the Nightly death is always how we get the ball rolling the next Day as well as who voted for the lynchee the Day before. True, it will be harder for us to try and make any semblance of an informed opinion on Nog due to lack of information, but it's always been work with what you have, no matter how little information you have.

EDIT: Xed with Boro and Rune, who I will join with in looking over G55 having not done so myself in my read throughs.

[A Little Green]

First off, sorry I'm here this late! I have less time than I had counted on, but I'll do my best.

Now, the first thing that surprises me: we lynched a Gifted yesterDay (sadly, that's not the surprising part :D) and yet I see very little discussion of how that came about. Sure, innocents make mistakes all the time, but I'll eat my hat if the Galwagon comprised only of innocent villagers. I'll have a look at it in a bit.

Basically my head is about to explode with "do I continue pursuing Agan or is everyone right, that she's innocent too."The whole of that post was rather curious, but this part especially - basically you make it sound like your pursuing Agan is an act, something you do, instead of a belief in her guilt. Now I understand your jump on her yesterDay was partly to fish for reactions, well, you did that. Won't work any more now you've come clean with it. Therefore, if you're innocent your dilemma looks pretty straightforward: if you actually suspect Agan, pursue her. If you don't, then don't (unless there's some further scheming involved, in which case go ahead. :rolleyes: )

*goes to airport to fly to everyone's house just to tell them to start posting* Aww, make sure to drop by!


EDIT: x-ed with Boro, Runne and Glirdy

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

It would appear that our main source will be post 60, in which Galadriel makes a list of her thoughts about the participants so far. Her main suspects are Inziladun and I, but she does not have specific case againt me. Inziladun she finds is commenting on things without actually getting involved and this she finds unnerving.



According to the post Galadriel seems to have been a bit uneasy about Aganzir and Pommy as well, although it is of quite vague nature. She does think that Boromir raises a good case against Aganzir, but not good enough for any action to be taken. Pommy is identified as a person that are merely repeating what others have said rather than coming up with theories of her own; she is given benefit of the doubt.


Especially the suspicion against Aganzir seems vague, when you take into consideration that later on Galadriel sort of defends Aganzir in post 49. Also it is around this time Galadriels posts becomes focused on Aganzir’s Serious-Joke list, a concept she never comes to grip with.



It seems clear that Galadriel identified BN behaviour as being active, but non-committing. Since I have also been accused for such behaviour, it would mean that most of the people she seemed uneasy about could be put in this category.

In theory she was right, it is a tactic that has been used a fair few times by evil doers. So there. . . a bit of advice from beyond the grave.


I will try to look a bit closer at Inziladun and maybe look at the voting pattern, though I am normally not very good at analysing the later.

Edit: Crossed with Glirdy and Greenie.

[Aganzir]

Sorry for being late. School happened, and a good book, and painting (I helped a friend finish a piece called 'Two Limes Waiting for a Bus in the Rain After a Rave'). And then I came home and had to spare a minute or two for Benjen Stark who appeared on Lommy's computer screen about the moment I stepped through the door.

Lottie, here's a song for you (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACG9wv69bKU). It has made me think of you ever since I first heard it, but I've never remembered to post it to you.

Gal, I'm sorry. I was reading your posts with thoughts "She seems somehow jumpy... but in a different way from last game, where she was a gifted!" and even though your last posts made me vaguely uneasy with the course I had decided to take, I didn't want to drop it because, you know, Black Númenoreans want to live too.

And I also disapprove of the Nog kill as I happen to disapprove of no trace kills in general (at least if they involve a player who's normally vocal and helpful, to the extent Nog can be said to be helpful ;)).

Confident pack of wolves it would seem.
A coward pack, I'd say. If Nog was still alive, we could at least have deduced he wasn't a BN.

That is what has me worried the most at the moment...that is there seems to be a lot of "Agan and Boro are probably both innocent" going around. It could easily be true, of course, but that seems to be the same conclusion everyone's reached, which is kind of strange...Agan, what do you think?
The options are, the wolves know we're both innocent, or you're a wolf and know I'm innocent. Of course we could both be wolves, and that would be awesome, but unfortunately it isn't the case (next time we'll totally do this). If option A is correct, either the wolves are not among those who've concluded we're innocent, or they want to keep a low profile and play nice with us. In any case, it would be more useful for them to set us against each other.
If Boro is a wolf, he may have several goals: try to exonerate himself by staging a row with an innocent, drag me down with him, trick me into believing he has a masterplan I could help with, get a lot of "a wolf wouldn't do that" kind of attention... you name it.
I know Boro is up to something, but that isn't anything unusual because as I said, he's never idle in WW. I just haven't decided yet if he's Gary Oldman before or after he was bitten (in other words, for those who are too ignorant to cultivate themselves with Elvish arts, I'm not sure whether the something he's up to is good or evil).
In any case, it worries me that Boro is so very conscious about the fact that several people think we're both innocent. It's a pre-emptive defence of sorts, and reminds me of saying "This is not a very good painting yet, the shading is bad here and I have to get these colours fixed there" before the teacher manages to comment on it, just so no one can say you weren't aware you were doing something wrong, if you know what I mean. There's also a risk the seed of doubt he's sowing ("everyone thinks Agan is innocent ai ai ai this is fishy or is it yes no yes no!") bears fruit and he manages to turn people against me when we can't afford to lynch many innocents.

Basically my head is about to explode with "do I continue pursuing Agan or is everyone right, that she's innocent too."
If you trust everyone (with three BN's among them) rather than your innocent instincts that spotted the classic BN trick in my first post, then you had better continue pursuing me pretty soon before I can convince the said everyone to consider me innocent beyond any doubt. But rest assured, I'll make sure your head explodes.
As for the tanlines, do you honestly think there were pictures that did not show your tanlines?

You know, there's a way to avoid tan lines you could try. That is, as long as there's a couple hundred miles between us.
:--D

I've got a vaguely uneasy feeling about Lottie, but I think it might have more to do with the aforementioned song which my ipod has deemed appropriate to play several times during the last few days. However, as I believe I said yesterday, I don't think her reaction to her early Gal comment is very incriminating. I would've been baffled too if I had been basically caught quoting what someone else had said.

It's worth noting again how quickly Nate/Pom (did we ever decide on which nick was the favorite?) has gotten the hang of this. Could be a sign of a sharp, natural player, but a more sinister reason has to be at least considered.
She's a Finn. Nuff said? ;)

*goes to airport to fly to everyone's house just to tell them to start posting*
You here soon? We've some leftover food in the fridge!

I'd actually also like to hear more from sally and Bom. I get irritated when people don't post, and want them dead just for that reason, and they may turn out to be gifteds and then I'm embarrassed. Anyway it's 3-8 at the moment, and if we lynch two more innocents we're pretty much screwed. It's hard when you can afford neither to keep submarines around nor lynch them.
And if the submarines are easy targets for the wolves, so are the people who want to lynch them!

Anyway, he seems genuinely not used to this many submarines and fluff posters.
There has always been submarines. Always.

It's funny that now that people are starting to suspect Inzil, I find myself wanting to stand up to his defence. For no other reason than that he's being suspected, and I'm not particularly suspicious of him. My brain keeps finding new ways to surprise me.

Nogrod was chosen to be killed for some reason - why not make use of that information?
I second Bom - what information? I think everything that could've been said about him was already said, and I don't hold against Inzil his reluctance to go through it again.

But don't confuse quiet behavior with blatant unhelpfulness. You know as well as I do, BNs need to give off an impression of being contributive and helping.
And yet quiet wolves slip under everybody's radar and win the game every now and then without even appearing very helpful. It might be their style, but it's my - and several others' - style to not ignore them and keep the threat of being lynched above their heads if they remain non-vocal. One of my principles in WW is that if you don't post, I'm entitled to vote for you without further explanation if the mood strikes me. And in a small game, I'd consider two days' quiet behaviour to be blatantly unhelpful, but maybe that's just me.

Not-trusting me is probably the smartest thing she's ever done.
Changing in-game personas now, are we? Try to get my head chopped off, and I'll go back and take you for a certain wolf hunter, one-handed.

Although our history is a bit different, since her first wolvish game...against the counsels of her pack-mate Mith, I conned her into attacking me. Our WW-relationship is totally built on distrust...it's a lovely thing.
Don't take all the credit for yourself - I was following a careful plan which, unfortunately, turned out to be built on a wrong assumption! Attacking you was a mistake, but one that had very little to do with your endearing show of advertising how well you cook, if you see what I mean.

But you also know, by now, that I will ruthlessly go after packmates if it will make me look better and more trusty to the village...therefor mates are silly if they trust me.
Ah so this is why you've been going after me all this time! ;)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

On the matter of Inziladun; Galadriel is quite right in her observations. At the time she writes post #60 Inziladun’s contributions have been helpful, but only on subjects like emoticons and names, and could very well be a cautious BN. However later Inzil does start to produce posts with more substance and the effort does start to look more genuine (#81 and #110). However it is curious how Sally is being mentioned as a possible lynch candidate and BomT isn’t, maybe Inzil knows something I don’t about their normal behaviour, but to me they were both “submarines”. Another odd thing is the vote for Galadriel, sure Inzil points out that the case against Galadriel has merit, but also says that it would be “too easy” and considers it a good BN strategy.


This leaves me with a few questions, why not go for BomT when it became clear that Sally was not a realistic option?

On the other hand I also have to ask, would a BN point out that it was “too easy” to vote Galadriel? Seems unlikely unless it was an attempt to send a message.

Crossed with Aganzir

[A Little Green]

All right, had a look at the Gal-wagon.

Unless I missed something, the whole suspicion of Gal started with first Agan and then Lottie both accusing her of jumpiness. Pom agrees with them. Lottie momentarily backtracks when finding out Agan had the same argument in almost precisely the same phrasing.

I did notice something that G55 said earlier that reminds me terribly of a ploy I've used as a wolf - near the beginning, she tried to get people to drop the subject in a "okay, done, move it along folks, nothing to see here" kind of way. That much is just an observation, but I know it's something I've done as a wolf when I felt like too much heat was about to be focused my way.Shasta comes up with a new argument against Gal, which looks more or less valid even though it's proven wrong now.

Bom then defends Gal:
Nice G55 just seems to want answers and avoid misunderstandings (nasty, nassssty misunderstandings) to me - so would we, were we less busy reveling in the chaos.

G55 still tips my wolf-dar, partially because of the jumpy thing earlier (I know it's probably a pick-up from Agan's post, but that doesn't make it any less valid a point) and partially because her posts so far seem like they're contributing, but when you look closer, they aren't actually that helpfulLottie returns to her old argument and adds a new one. I'm really torn about this. It would be kind of an odd move for a BN, this very open backtracking and then backtracking again, but then again, I could see an evil Lottie noticing how popular the Gal-suspicion was growing and deciding to follow it after all.

Gal. I didn't really mind her until her sudden and desperate interest in my list which is just weird. What does it really matter?I'm not exactly sure of the validity of this argument. I mean, yes, it was kind of odd of Gal to focus so strongly on Agan's list, but I've yet to discover how it made her look suspicious.

So, Galwolfriel, what are your plans for the Night?This, I think, is a rather odd one-liner from Sally.

Ah so we face the hard decision: should we vote for a suspicious-ish (and with day 1 reasons at that) loud player, or a submarine?

Personally I quite like to sink submarines, but once I've got it into my head that someone is suspicious, they will keep irking me until I know for sure.Agan is agonizing.

Voting Potential:
Galadriel55: My suspicion is based on the arguments of Lottie, Shasta and my own initial annoyance. The jumpiness/many but not very helpful posts, mixed with the attempts to dismiss one discussion, whilst on the same time going on and on about Aganzir’s silly/serious post does present a case. That being said I she is right now the one I am least likely to vote for, because none of the above are very incriminating and because she has shown willingness to participate and move the debate forward (to some degree).Rune effectively summarizes the case against Gal, agrees with it, and says he isn't likely to vote for her anyway.

I don't recall ever seeing G55 mention the whole "dismissal" thing, even though I mentioned it twice. It may have gotten lost in the shuffle, but even so...

++G55Shasta is the first to vote Gal. Not sure what the "dismissal" mentioned here is. Clarification please?

Lottie votes Gal next, x-posting with Shasta.

I can see the merits of the G55 suspicion, though I also agree with Greenie that G55 has been a frequent target for the baddies to lynch. I might vote for her, though it seems too easy somehow.Inzil is wavering...
I feel your pain....and Agan agonizes some more. She also says she finds Inzil innocent.

Bom or Galadriel. Opinions?Sally agonizes too, except she doesn't look like she's in much of an agony.

Agan, finished with her agonizing, votes Gal. I don't like this vote a whole lot; I don't really understand Agan's point against Gal, and the timing of the vote as well as the hesitation before it look a little too convenient to my taste.

Zil votes Gal, too:
Looks worse than Lottie, I hate voting Bom Day 1, and it doesn't look like I'll have any takers on Sally. I'll not waste my vote. Others have expressed concern over this particular vote, and I can see why. It's very similar to Agan's, in both timing and the almost over-the-top hesitancy. I doubt they're BNs together, wouldn't be surprised if one of them is.

Sally, meanwhile, ends up voting Bom. This doesn't look any better to me than Agan and Inzil, though. In fact, I'm rather uneasy with how she first popped in that joking one-liner about Galwolfriel, enhancing everyone's image of Gal as a possible wolf; then made sure people know she might vote Gal, so the other potential Gal-voters knew their votes weren't going to be throwaways; and finally voting Bom instead of the more-or-less certain lynch Gal, so as to keep her hands clean.

Lottie and Shasta are the ones who seem most certain of Gal's guilt. This makes them look slightly better to me; though Lottie's double Legate-180 still makes her look fishy. Agan brings up new points against Gal, hesitates a lot, then is the third to vote her. Inzil is diplomatic and undecided and also ends up voting Gal at a crucial point. Rune is a bit like Sally (and I bet he loves the comparison) in that he agrees with the Gal case but doesn't go with it. His reasons for doing this look a bit better than Sally's, though.

Based on this, I feel worst about Agan and Sally, and bad about Inzil and Lottie.


EDIT: x-ed with Agan and Rune

[A Little Green]

One further point concerning the Galwagon: while I'm pretty sure there is at least one wolf among that lot, I'm equally sure that at least one wolf kept their nose well clean of the whole Gal business. But since I don't have time to read all of yesterDay now, they'll have to wait.

Warning: I need to be in bed in half an hour so I'm going to vote rather soon. Right now I'm thinking of going for either Agan or Sally. Thoughts?

[Inziladun]

There's been some good stuff that's come about here in the recent few hours, but no time to line-by-line respond.
I'm off work on holiday. However, in addition to my 8 year old, I'm currently having to keep an eye on her 6 year old cousin as well. Not an environment conducive to WW. ;)

YesterDay I did put G55 and Bom in somewhat of the same boat. There didn't seem to be a lot of substance, and both do tend to be easy targets. It seems like Bom gets more early votes though as a rule, and it's at the point that I just don't like voting for him Day 1. I agree that it's a habit I should probably get out of, but there it is.

And Boro, I usually find Sally unnerving for all the reasons you cite. She usually does have a lot of amusing stuff going, and that's one of the reasons this game is so much fun here.
However, this particular time around it just had a different feel, hence my lukewarm desire to vote for her.

I would put Bom and Sally in the same category toDay. Very under the radar and hardly even visible. Could vote for either, if nothing better comes to mind.

x/d with Greenie

[Inziladun]

One further point concerning the Galwagon: while I'm pretty sure there is at least one wolf among that lot, I'm equally sure that at least one wolf kept their nose well clean of the whole Gal business. But since I don't have time to read all of yesterDay now, they'll have to wait.

Warning: I need to be in bed in half an hour so I'm going to vote rather soon. Right now I'm thinking of going for either Agan or Sally. Thoughts?

I'd say Sally over Agan. I've seen enough of the latter to at least have something to go on, and I still don't think she seems evil.

[A Little Green]

I'd say Sally over Agan. I've seen enough of the latter to at least have something to go on, and I still don't think she seems evil.What concerns me about Agan is her role in the Gal-wagon; she is one of the strongest Gal-suspecters (along with Lottie and Shasta), yet takes care to appear doubtful and hesitant about voting her. I get a mental image of Agan pushing the bandwagon along before jumping on it with apparent reluctance.

[Boromir88]

I realize I'm heading out to a store, and since there's only 2 hours til DL. I doubt it'll be that long of a trip, but don't really want to chance it. So..

++Agan

Thanks for replying dear, pretty much giving me the last assurance I need. I mean, come on, you should know even if I can convince myself you're a BN, it's a hard dilemma I face of voting you or not.

It's a battle of duty vs my heart telling me I love when you're evil and I like watching you in your full wolvish glory. I mean, it may make me a terrible person to say, and I'm certainly rubbish at the tango, but I still love our dances, even if we might be on opposite sides.

[Glirdan]

So, as we all know, nothing of any real substance from her for quite some time (or anyone for that matter, myself included) until Agan joins and has her "suspicions list" with this reasoning for thinking G55 guilty:

Galadriel55. Says Bom is guilty of making jokes when he starts making them. Does this mean she didn't take it as a joke when he said he's wolves with her and sally? Encouraged by Boro, she takes her guilty accusations of randomness entirely too far.

After reading through the rest of the post, Im inclined to believe that it was done for two reasons:

1) To try and keep up the fun and yet at the same time

2) To start steering the conversation in a more serious direction.

Shortly after this our beloved deceased decides to make a brief summary of anything she had found important, leaving out all the banter and sticking to what she finds is important. Once Boro started giving his suspicions of Agan, G55 defended (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=666059&postcount=39) Agan, despite Agan's previous accusation, then proceeds to ask Boro and Agan to explain themselves as their behavior is confusing her as she doesn't find either to be very evil. Lottie then joins the and believes G55's behavior to be fishy and puts G55 at the top of her suspect list.

After Boro has given his explanation (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=666068&postcount=46) as to why he finds Agan suspicious, G55 still defends her, thinking her first post of the Day still to be joking, but still asked Agan for more clarification.

Now here's something Shasta said which I never really thought about until now:

I did notice something that G55 said earlier that reminds me terribly of a ploy I've used as a wolf - near the beginning, she tried to get people to drop the subject in a "okay, done, move it along folks, nothing to see here" kind of way. That much is just an observation, but I know it's something I've done as a wolf when I felt like too much heat was about to be focused my way.

I definitely see his point here, having used that tactic myself. Yet not just as a baddie. It's a tactic used quite often by any Gifted/Baddie to keep heat of of them. And now we know why she was acting in such a manner.

G55 the makes a quick analysis post on everyone, and only has two real suspicions: Rune and Zil:

Inziladun: gives the impression of commenting on things without involving himself anywhere. Pokes here and there but stays aloof. This behaviour unnerves me.

Rune: something ticks me off about him. Maybe I'm just not used to his playing style yet, since it's our first game together. The vibes comming from him are not good.

Agan returns and clarify's her first post for G55, but she still remains confused. Agan considers voting her with this reasoning:

I'm actually thinking about voting for you. It's partly your strange insistence on my list, partly your slight jumpiness (compared to everyone else), and partly what Lottie just said about your helpfulness without contributing a lot.

G55 defends (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=666105&postcount=76) herself against the accusations from Lottie and Agan. This continues for a short while with G55 continuously defending herself.

The Voting

Shasta: First to cast a vote as well as first to cast a vote for her, with this reasoning:

I don't recall ever seeing G55 mention the whole "dismissal" thing, even though I mentioned it twice. It may have gotten lost in the shuffle, but even so...

Lottie: Second to vote as well as second to vote for her, albeit she cross-posted with Shasta. Gave no reasoning in the vote post itself but had been suspecting her the whole Day

Agan: third to cast her vote for G55. The votes at this time were:

G55 - 2 (Shasta and Lottie)
Bom - 1 (Rune)
Rune - 1 (Bom)
Lottie - 1 (Greenie)

Also had been suspecting G55 for a better part of he Day

Zil: fourth vote for her and says this for his reasoning:

Looks worse than Lottie, I hate voting Bom Day 1, and it doesn't look like I'll have any takers on Sally. I'll not waste my vote.

Voting came to a close with the votes as this:

G55 - 4 (Shasta, Lottie, Agan and Zil)
Bom - 3 (Rune, Sally and G55)
Rune - 1 (Bom)
Lottie - 1 (Greenie)

Did Not Vote - Nate, Nog and myself.

(Dead innocents italicized)

Overall Thoughts

- Lottie seems the least suspicious of he four who voted, having had her suspicions from early on in he Day
- Zil is really starting to stand out to me, having had no real suspicion of her before. His explanation is also rather interesting, what with the "I will not throw away my vote" tactic.
- Rune and Bom's votes for each other caught my eye. Something about it bothers me, what, Im not sure.
- Agan and Shasta bear some watching, but both had reasonable an sound reasons for voting G55
- Sally's vote for Bom also has me concerned. It almost looks like a last minute attempt to save G55

EDIT: Seems I cross posted with everyone since my last

[A Little Green]

OK, that did it -

++ Agan

If one of my two top candidates already has a vote, I'll go for that one. Good night.


EDIT: x-ed with Glirdy

[Loslote]

I am not thrilled with the two Agan votes. One came, seemingly out of the blue (or at least it seemed that way to me) from Boro, and seems to be due to some reasoning of his that the rest of us are not privvy to. The other is from Greenie, who I've been consistantly disagreeing with throughout the game. Plus, I haven't seen anything from Agan that jumped out at me as evil, and she posted a song that made me laugh. ;) I will not be pleased if this ends up being a bandwagon.

That being said, I don't actually suspect Greenie. I disagree with her just about every time she posts, but I don't think she's a wolf. Glirdan I'm less sure about. The one line that really jumped out at me was his:

3) I also mentioned Sally in that post, or did you miss that?

Which both sounds very defensive and actually doesn't matter. Shasta's point was that Glirdy started out agreeing with Boro and ended up saying that Boro could have fit the wolf profile. The fact that Glirdy said "sallycake or Boro" doesn't affect that point at all. Now, I accept his earlier defense of that particular point. It made sense and looks like something an innocent could have done. But I don't like how unnecessarily defensive he was even after explaning his statement.

[Aganzir]

Okay I'm going to cross with a lot because I went to have dinner midway through writing this post.

I'm not exactly sure of the validity of this argument. I mean, yes, it was kind of odd of Gal to focus so strongly on Agan's list, but I've yet to discover how it made her look suspicious.
You conveniently failed to note the post where I stated my main reasons for thinking about voting for her:
I'm actually thinking about voting for you. It's partly your strange insistence on my list, partly your slight jumpiness (compared to everyone else), and partly what Lottie just said about your helpfulness without contributing a lot.

Agan, finished with her agonizing, votes Gal. I don't like this vote a whole lot; I don't really understand Agan's point against Gal, and the timing of the vote as well as the hesitation before it look a little too convenient to my taste.
Agan hesitated because she was, especially as the deadline drew nearer, worried she had accidentally poked a gifted. If you don't see why, go read her last posts again. But there's no way to tell who's a real gifted and who's just giving vague hints in order to be saved, and as Gal didn't reveal, I thought she'd be safe to lynch. There's hesitation for you. Convenient, eh?

I don't like in the least the way Greenie seems to be twisting things. I don't know how obvious my doubts about Gal were or if it even occurred to anybody else, but it seems to me Greenie is intentionally ignoring it. Also, while suspecting me doesn't necessarily make her evil, I'm about the most convenient suspect she can choose if she needs to accuse an innocent because everyone knows we argue all the time anyway.

she is one of the strongest Gal-suspecters (along with Lottie and Shasta), yet takes care to appear doubtful and hesitant about voting her. I get a mental image of Agan pushing the bandwagon along before jumping on it with apparent reluctance.
Would you be content if I had pursued a strong and misguided suspicion without a backward glance on day 1? Would that make me seem more innocent? I was hesitant because I was by no means convinced of her guilt. She was my best bet so far, but I voted her in order to eliminate someone I'd continue to be suspicious of in the future, rather than to lynch someone I was sure was a wolf.

It's a battle of duty vs my heart telling me I love when you're evil and I like watching you in your full wolvish glory. I mean, it may make me a terrible person to say, and I'm certainly rubbish at the tango, but I still love our dances, even if we might be on opposite sides.
You, sir, are a misguided voyeur. Anyway should I take the last sentence as a confession? ;)

A word or two about Boromir. When he's innocent, he plays the seer in order to protect the real one. He even does that when he's the seer himself because everyone is used to it, or because no one would think the real seer would be so obvious, or something. What I thought after his first posts was, "He's either the seer who's dreamed of me and wants to get my attention in order to do some shiny plotting (and in case you wonder about his suspicion of me, it does compute. He could totally have faked suspecting his known innocent for a while if it had saved him a night or two), or he's a wolf who wants me to believe that. Or then he's an ordo, but if that's the case he's up to something I simply don't understand." You know why? Because his tone was as ungenuine as it gets. It wasn't something one just thought when you read a post, it was something you had planned to do and jumped at the first opportunity to do it. What he said was not honest, but as I said, an innocent Boro might not be always honest either. I wasn't sure of his intentions until his ever continuing suspicion and vote for me, and I can't say I'm even now sure he's a wolf, but when we're talking about him, that's a lot more likely than stubborn and misguided innocent.

Of course it is possible he's underestimating me as a wolf, or I'm overestimating myself as a wolf (even if that's not very likely ;)), and we're in fact two innocents too enthusiastic about our little dance to back off, but if that's so, we'll have to choose a different dance next time that doesn't make our heads spin so badly. That involves him not trying to test me, me not realising he's doing it, and both of us playing accordingly ever since.

Anyway, the part he's trying to play now is lynching me. I'm very much amused by the whole thing, and it's something I probably shouldn't say aloud because I understand our interaction must look interesting enough to you all even without it, but I can't really help it. I'm rather sure I'll be voting for Boro today, for two reasons: one, what I just said about him. Two, when a mutual suspicion gets this far, I won't have eyes for anyone else. So whoever is/are wolves beside Boro & Greenie will have a moment of peace right now.

I should add, Boro, dancing with you is in many ways much more fun than Greenie.

[Pomegranate]

Back around. I agree with Greenie in many points. Drawing on what I said earlier and on Greenie's points against sally and somewhat Agan (who to me seems like she was dragged to the whole fight with Boro instead of by herself actually dragging attention her way - like Boro did), I've got my main suspects from both the ones who voted for Gal, and the ones who didn't:

Voters: Inzil - For what I said earlier. I think she's more suspicious than Agan, who's the second of my suspects in this category.

Others: sally - for being unproductive, for giving the Gal or Bom -ultimatum and on the last moment voting for Bom, when there was already somewhat enough votes for Galadriel.

Now I'm in for looking through with concentration on what everyone has said today, it might change my mind on these.

edit. x/ed with Lottie and Agan

[satansaloser2005]

I am home from work, and will attend to the thread as soon as I've eaten dinner.

Also, harrumph. I hate being wrong, especially with things like yesterDay. Probable guilt of Bom aside (such an obvious revenge vote pings my radar more than almost anything), I was terribly off the mark with Galadriel, and I apologize for that.

And toDay I shall make up for it by (hopefully) lynching a villain. To that momentarily.

[Aganzir]

I am not thrilled with the two Agan votes. One came, seemingly out of the blue (or at least it seemed that way to me) from Boro, and seems to be due to some reasoning of his that the rest of us are not privvy to.
I like that you say it's out of the blue in spite of everything Boro has said about me so far, because I think so too. As I see it, he kept testing me till he knew if I'd fall for his tricks, and when I showed I wouldn't, he decided to get me lynched.
Anyway glad you liked the song! ;)

Would it be awfully vain of me to judge people based on what they've said about me & Boro's little chat?

Would it be awfully inconsiderate of me to vote now and go to bed because I have a long day tomorrow and Lommy kept me up way long last night?

Oh and on second thought, I'm not feeling quite as bad about Greenie as about Boro. She just irritates me, and I feel like she's been purposefully neglectful in order to size me up through wolfy-coloured glasses.

[Glirdan]

An hour left and two votes cast for Agan, who I am in extreme reluctance to vote for. Her whole tone seems legitimately genuine, especially with her last few posts...on the other hand, that's what a BN Agan would want us to think.

I, like Nate am more inclined to vote for Zil or Sally. Zil's vote at the end of the Day yesterDay just does not sit well. It almost seed strategic in it's placement, securing the death of our Anborn. He gave no reasosns of his own and just sort of latched onto what was previously stated by Agan, Lottie and Shasta. Why not stick to your gut instincts and vote for someone you had really wanted to, even I it had been a "throw away".

Sally's vote also does not sit well. Again, well enough placed to draw attention away from G55. Her submarining is also a growing anxiousness of mine. Yet i've seen sallycakes do this as a Gifted as well, which is why I'm more hesitant to vote for her.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

This Aganzir and Boromir thing is really making my head hurt. Especially all this jazz about dancing and scheming, it is like watching dreadful reality television.

I felt quite good about Aganzir on day1, but not so much anymore. It might just be this weird interaction with Boromir, for I can find little else in her posts that should make me uneasy.

[Loslote]

Mkay, my Boy is all rubbing my shoulders and it's wonderful and it's a really persuasive argument to go eat dinner with him, plus I already know who I'm going to vote (since he's the only one I suspect at all), so I'm going to vote now and run.

++Glirdan

Good luck, all! Kill a wolf for me while I'm out, kay? :p

[Aganzir]

This Aganzir and Boromir thing is really making my head hurt. Especially all this jazz about dancing and scheming, it is like watching dreadful reality television.
:D:D That's how it is, though. He did something, I countered by doing something, he countered, so forth, all the while knowing what the other was doing (or so I'd like to think). Dance is not an entirely bad comparison.

I felt quite good about Aganzir on day1, but not so much anymore. It might just be this weird interaction with Boromir, for I can find little else in her posts that should make me uneasy.
I am going to be very upset if people start suspecting me because of Boro's antics!

Anyway. Time for the dip.

++BOROMIR

Sorry I haven't been of more use today. And just so the rest of you know, I would very much like not to be lynched.

Bedtime! Because yes, sometimes even the 20 more minutes matter.

[Glirdan]

Twenty minute left and it's as quiet as a graveyard....well, I must vote as I am on my way to work and my technological device from which I'm posting is dying, soo...

++Zil

His vote placement and his agreeing with everything everyone says and his lack of having any true substance that is his own.

I'll be around as long as my phone doesn't day/ until I get to work, whichever happens to come first.

EDIT: that should be die, not day........*mutters inaudible curses at auto-correct*. And Xed with Agan

[satansaloser2005]

[Sally's] submarining is also a growing anxiousness of mine.

And I'm not allowed to have a career, is that it?

[/Doctor Who references]


I find the following three things of particular interest.

1. How much/little people are talking about last Night's kill. PomPom and Rune seem loathe to discuss it at all, while Boro and Glirdan seem like-minded in that Nog was not targeted because he could be a future threat. Boro should know better than that, if you ask me. If you have a player like Nog in your game, you know that eventually he's going to either figure out things or stir up trouble (or possibly both). Killing him before he causes trouble for the wolves indicates people who fear and/or respect him, not players who think he's something to be discarded. Last Night's kill could tell us a lot about the pack's dynamics, but people seem to not want to acknowledge that fact.

2. How little people have said about Bom's vote yesterDay. After having said nothing (correct?) about Rune, he suddenly votes him, not because of what he said or the kind of posts he'd made, but simply because Rune voted for him. I'd suspected him before, along with Galgiftriel, but what tipped the scales for me was that sudden but unexpected betra- revenge vote.

3. Boro vs. Agan. Unfortunately, I'm not currently clear which one (if either) I trust. (Although I must admit it's good to see a proper show again.)



Rune is on my radar for trivializing last Night's kill.

PomPom is the same, but she (right?) gets a pass because she wouldn't necessarily know any better.

Bom is still guilty in my book, both for his words toDay and, more importantly, his extremely tyrannosaurosical vote yesterDay.


I need to submit this post and catch up on what's been posted since. That is all.

[Inziladun]

Six year old finally left! There's reason I only have one child. :)

Zil's vote at the end of the Day yesterDay just does not sit well. It almost seed strategic in it's placement, securing the death of our Anborn. He gave no reasosns of his own and just sort of latched onto what was previously stated by Agan, Lottie and Shasta. Why not stick to your gut instincts and vote for someone you had really wanted to, even I it had been a "throw away".

I already said why I didn't go for Sally. I dislike wasting a vote.

As for latching on to others' words, what exactly are you doing with Pom's? :rolleyes:

I don't want to see Agan lynched, but I don't want to go either.

x/d with Sally

[Pomegranate]

What I'm ending up is, I still don't like Rune for kinda agreeing but leaving doors open. However, I don't think I have enough time to start seriously suspecting him, so I'll have to go with the other two potentials I have, that is, again, Inzil and sally. Of which I'm more inclined to vote for sally, because she hasn't said almost anything today, which annoys me. On the other hand, I afraid my annoyance is playing a bigger role than my actual opinions, so I'll stare at the posts for a while before making my decision.

edit. hehe, x/ed with Inzil and sally

[Bom Tombadillo]

Errrr. I can't make sense of anything (to myself, much less to you lot) long enough to make a coherent argument right one, especially feeling pressed for time, so:

++Aganzir

For whatever reason, she seems the more suspicious of the Boro/Agan pair.

Edit: x'd with everybody since Glirdan. Also, corrected my vote.

[satansaloser2005]

Point being here, hope sally doesn't mind if I use her as an example. She's really not that hard to figure out, and she definitely posts a lot but feels more inclined to amuse the mod, and if innocent, obviously will help by figuring out who's judgement she can trust and hopefully that leads to lynching wolves. But she'll always for the most part, keep whatever her thoughts are secret, until she figures out who's trustworthy and who isn't. Same thing, she's got a style, it suits her and hopefully she enjoys it.

I'm offended that you find my lack of substance to be in fact a lack of substance. I'm constantly playing the village, even when I'm not playing the village. Information, my sweet. I require information, and one of the best ways to get it is to invoke responses from those from whom you can acquire said information.

(Obviously I'm not really offended. Also, this game, I have been rather slacking, for which I apologize. I'm not up for my usual games this, well, game.)

[Inziladun]

Errrr. I can't make sense of anything (to myself, much less to you lot) long enough to make a coherent argument right one, especially feeling pressed for time, so:

Aganzir

For whatever reason, she seems the more suspicious of the Boro/Agan pair.

Come on, Bom! There are better options!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

What is the feeling about BomT ?

Worth a vote again today, or would it be a waste?

[satansaloser2005]

Bom's at the top of my list. Have a nice Day.


EDIT: x'd since his vote, which now makes it a response to Rune's inquiry

[Inziladun]

Fine.

++Bom

I don't want Agan lynched.

[satansaloser2005]

++Bom


Also, sir, your vote is still improperly formatted.


EDIT: x'd with Dun

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am not voting for Boromir.

Inzil is an option, but I would also consider BomT

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

++BomT

[Pomegranate]

++Inzil

edi. started, but realised I don't actually know how to make that red, and don't have time to find out before the dl!

[satansaloser2005]

Highlight, Rune.


ETA: Good lad. :)

[Nogrod]

DAY 2 HAS ENDED.

Okay. Pitch has a problem and is not able to handle this right now (he just called me). He asked me to act in his role for a moment.

I'll count the votes and let you know the result of what you've done in a moment...

Patience...

Also those needing to do so should send their Nightly stuff to me until further notice.

[Nogrod]

Okay. If I'm correct the votes were:

Boro -> Agan
Greenie -> Agan2
Lottie -> Glirdy
Agan -> Boro
Glirdy -> Inzil
Bom -> Agan3 (NH)
Inzil -> Bom
Sally -> Bom2
Rune -> Bom3
Nate -> Inzil2 (NH)

(NH = not highlighted vote)

Luckily I don't have to take a stance into whether non-highlighted votes count or not as the ruling is clear here: In case of a tie, the last player to reach the required number of votes will be lynched, being the best-informed choice of the Rangers.So as the (last) one who gained three votes Bom Tombadillo is lynched and he is... a black Numenórean!


It's N3 and nightly-ones should do their bussiness. Hush others.

Good Night and good luck!


PS. I'll make list & stuff tomorrow as it's half past 1AM now and I'm going back to sleep...

[Nogrod]

I’m not going to mess with Pitchie’s storyline as he might come back soonish and I’d hate to destroy his possible plans by putting in ideas of my own which might contradict his. And even if I'd wanted to, I'd not have time to write one today anyway... If his absence takes longer I’ll promise you narrations and a few gruesome deaths. But for now you have to be content with a kind of minimalistic modding.


So the rangers wake up to face the third day of their nightmare... without Sally.


DEAD:
Pitch (Mod) - pushed over the edge Night 1
Gal55 (Anborn) – pricked to death Day 1
Nog (ordo) - silenced with a pipe down his windpipe on Night 2
Bom (Black Numenórean) – lynched on Day 2
Sallykins (ordo) – killed on Night 3

ALIVE:
Agan
Greenie
Boro
Glirdan
Inzil
Lottie
Nate
Rune
Shasta



DAY 3 HAS BEGUN. Stop all PMing and let the trial continue.

[Boromir88]

I wanted to say a few things...

First off. Since Bom's death has given me an epiphany.

My focus on Agan yesterday was mostly out of laziness and excessive pride in refusing to back out of a challenging dance.

And I was going to start with I am going to trust Rune and sally above anyone else today...but well I guess since those BNs are nasty with killing sally, it's down to Rune.

[Inziladun]

Obviously I was off base about Sally, but a dead BN is an excellent consolation prize.

When it was crunch time, I just didn't want Agan lynched and went with Bom, which luckily worked out.

So I guess the question would be, "why Sally?", though it seems obvious due to Bom being evil. I was wondering why they went for her and not me or Rune, but I guess the fact that she basically started the ball rolling on Bom did it.

A good place to start today would be to look back over Bom's posts. But not while I'm having to use this tablet computer. :rolleyes:

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Why Rune, Boro?

[Inziladun]

Technology is a wonderful thing, but it's nice to have a real keyboard.
Smilies removed.

Day 1

Aw, pie. I got my times mixed up and will have rather less time to post around DL than I thought, so if my votes seem rushed/I lack information about things I should know you now know why.

I solemnly swear I am up to no Law, Good, or even Neutral. Chaotic Evil all the way!

Also, G55, Sally and I are wolves (first three posters, y'see). Lynch us now.

First post. Funny how he jokingly gave away his alignment. Obviously he's not truthful about the last part.

Indeed.

--Loslote

Also ~~Loslote, ==Loslote, and <><>Loslote.

That'll teach her not to act on the mountain of evidence on Day 1!

Banter about Lottie.

That's the second time in a row it's told me to spread some reputation around before repping sally again. I don't remember having repped her in the first place.

Next poster, don't forget the :(. Let's see how long we can keep the chain going.

I left that smilie in. Nothing but banter.

Blrrrrg. Day 1's . . . even once serious discussion starts, I can never keep them straight.

We dursn't like Shasta, no, precious, we dursn't like him at all. Nice G55 just seems to want answers and avoid misunderstandings (nasty, nassssty misunderstandings) to me - so would we, were we less busy reveling in the chaos.

Casts some minor suspicion on Shasta, no reason given, and G55. And "revels in the chaos". In retrospect he gave some clues, couching them in jokes.

*sigh* I'm a bit lost now and without enough time to do a thorough reread, but . . .

++Rune Son of Bjarne

I dunno. He might be genuine, but attacking me specifically for lack of content just seems odd to me.

And a vote for Rune, which Sally quickly attacked as a "revenge" vote.

Day 2

Bllllrg. As Glirdan said, awfully quiet today. Maybe the wolves are trying to keep their heads down?

I wasn't really bothered by PomPom's swift skill - I assumed she'd done what I did, which was to read several games before actually joining one (or the 'Downs themselves). I did consider the alternative but since it was D1 at the time, she got a newbie pass.

Regarding this:



from Shasta, I do believe the problem is: what information? Nog made a total of four posts, all substance-less with the exception of a statement that he thinks both Boro and Agan innocent. No suspicions, and nobody suspected him.

So, we've basically got the same things to discuss as yesterday, except we're now two innocents closer to defeat.

I'll check in periodically to see if the aforementioned wolves decide to poke their heads up, and possibly to mingle with you commons. :p No promises, though.

Defends Pom's acumen as a newbie. Responds to Shasta, saying Nog didn't leave much to analyze as to why he was killed.

Errrr. I can't make sense of anything (to myself, much less to you lot) long enough to make a coherent argument right one, especially feeling pressed for time, so:

++Aganzir

For whatever reason, she seems the more suspicious of the Boro/Agan pair.

Pops in with a late vote for Agan, but failed to highlight it.

And that's it.

There are many interactions with people, but hardly anything of substance. He said early on he didn't like Shasta, but never mentioned it again. He did defend Pom as well.

His votes were for Rune apparently, as Sally noted, a response to Rune's vote for him. Each was the first vote for the other.

The other vote was for Agan. I think that speaks for her innocence. His vote would have been the third for her, with everyone else in the running for a lynch only with one. There were still many left to vote, and she was obviously the lynch du jour. Maybe he counted on others following up behind him.

I guess it's possible he "forgot" to highlight purposefully, but still you'd think if he and Agan were mates he would have given a vote that counted to someone else

[Boromir88]

Why Rune, Boro?

He's been the first and main "lynch Bom" voice since the start. I know sally pointed out she didn't like Bom's revenge vote for Rune.

I admit that can look pre-planned if Rune and Bom were BN's but I don't see why Rune would keep bringing up wanting to lynch Bom for the fact he wasn't being more helpful. And Bom's immediate revenge-vote reaction just doesn't look pre-planned to me. I should have actually listened to sally instead of casting it off as "Bom is being like Bom and let me continue prodding Agan because I'm too lazy to think about anything else."

[Loslote]

During the Boro-Agan battle itself, I didn't really think either one were wolves (though I was more inclined to trust Agan than Boro. But when I read this:

I wanted to say a few things...

First off. Since Bom's death has given me an epiphany.

My focus on Agan yesterday was mostly out of laziness and excessive pride in refusing to back out of a challenging dance.

It did not sit well with me. I mean, yes, I accept that whatever it was he was doing yesterDay didn't work and needed to be stopped, but someone the tone just feels...contrived to me, somehow.

I should have actually listened to sally instead of casting it off as "Bom is being like Bom and let me continue prodding Agan because I'm too lazy to think about anything else."

It feels like he could have said "I goofed, sorry, moving on to hunt wolves now", but he's not moving on - he's bringing up the point again and dwelling on it, and while he's stopped doing one form of ineffective time-killing, he's moved right on to another. I'm not convinced that Boro's a wolf - far from it, he's only just in that list that goes right before the "Guilty" list and the "Neutral" one that I can't remember the name of - but I'd like to see a lot more productive wolf-hunting before I stop keeping a very close eye on him.

[Pomegranate]

I'm having a somewhat busy day today, and besides that I am baffled. I feel that with Bom being BN I lost the base from all my suspects so far, more or less. Rune gave Bom the final vote and has been wanting him lynched for quite a while, sally's dead, Bom gave Agan a vote he could've seen as final, Inzil voted for Bom as well, though I guess he couldn't have foreseen the rush of votes Bom would get on the final minute. I'll have to look around, but I'm afraid I don't have the time yet. Will try my best later.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I'm having a somewhat busy day today, and besides that I am baffled. I feel that with Bom being BN I lost the base from all my suspects so far, more or less. Rune gave Bom the final vote and has been wanting him lynched for quite a while, sally's dead, Bom gave Agan a vote he could've seen as final, Inzil voted for Bom as well, though I guess he couldn't have foreseen the rush of votes Bom would get on the final minute. I'll have to look around, but I'm afraid I don't have the time yet. Will try my best later.

Apart for the stuff you say about me, this sums up my thoughts about the votes.

As deadline approached, I found my self questioning the innocence of Aganzir and Inziladun. However the know that we now the role of BomT, they don't look so bad.

Of course it could be that BomT voted Aganzir, because she seemed near doomed and it would make him look good. And as Pommy says, it could be a miscalculation on the part of Inzil. That is unlikely however, since it was clear that Sally wanted to get rid of BomT and I too had been critical of him.

Moving on...

I never quite understood Aganzir's vote for Boromir. She plays along with his antics, states that he acts like this all the time and so on. . . I probably need to read through her posts, but right now it seems to me her reaction has been rather odd.

[Boromir88]

So, Lottie, my first post of the Day you're saying it's completely unproductive? That fact that everyone now knows I trust Rune more than anyone else today is completely counter-productive? And that I was possibly in the wrong to vote for Agan yesterday? Again, totally unproductive and you can't possibly read anything out of it?

If you wanted to see the pinnacle of unproductivity from me, I thought you would have remembered my late useless post on the theory of Balrogs and Wings several villages ago.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

If you wanted to see the pinnacle of unproductivity from me, I thought you would have remembered my late useless post on the theory of Balrogs and Wings several villages ago.

Sweet broccoli Odin, please don't go there.

[Loslote]

So, Lottie, my first post of the Day you're saying it's completely unproductive? That fact that everyone now knows I trust Rune more than anyone else today is completely counter-productive? And that I was possibly in the wrong to vote for Agan yesterday? Again, totally unproductive and you can't possibly read anything out of it?

If you wanted to see the pinnacle of unproductivity from me, I thought you would have remembered my late useless post on the theory of Balrogs and Wings several villages ago.

Not that part. The part where you talk about Rune was good. But that was, what, one line? Maybe two? The majority of your post was not about Rune, and that was the part that I found unnerving.

[A Little Green]

So I guess the question would be, "why Sally?", though it seems obvious due to Bom being evil. I was wondering why they went for her and not me or Rune, but I guess the fact that she basically started the ball rolling on Bom did it.Also, I think, her voting behaviour from Day 1, ie. debating whether to vote Gal or Bom and ending up voting the latter.

Casts some minor suspicion on Shasta, no reason given, and G55.I don't think it really matters at this point, but the way I read it, he suspected Shasta and defended Gal.


I never quite understood Aganzir's vote for Boromir. She plays along with his antics, states that he acts like this all the time and so on. . .That is actually a good point; and when phrased like that it does look fishy. But like you, I think I'd need to do some rereading in order to decide anything.

[A Little Green]

In response to Agan's response to my points against her:

You conveniently failed to note the post where I stated my main reasons for thinking about voting for herAh. My post in question was a summary of the development of the Galwagon, not a full account of everything everyone said with regards to Gal; I only mentioned it when somebody brought up new points, or somebody new joined in the fray, etc. Perhaps I should have stated it clearer. Also, when I called your reason for voting Gal fishy or suspicious or strange or whatever it was, I was talking about that one particular point I had quoted, not the whole (the other arguments therein being ones others had stated too and that looked a little more valid.)

Agan hesitated because she was, especially as the deadline drew nearer, worried she had accidentally poked a gifted. If you don't see why, go read her last posts again. But there's no way to tell who's a real gifted and who's just giving vague hints in order to be saved, and as Gal didn't reveal, I thought she'd be safe to lynch. There's hesitation for you. Convenient, eh?I still think it could be, as you know you'd say that same thing whether BN or innocent.

I don't like in the least the way Greenie seems to be twisting things. I don't know how obvious my doubts about Gal were or if it even occurred to anybody else, but it seems to me Greenie is intentionally ignoring it.Yes, it occurred to me that Gal might be Gifted. It also occurred to me that it might have occurred to you. Look, I was not and certainly am not saying for a fact that you are a wolf. I was saying that your actions concerning the Gal lynch would well fit a wolf. There's a difference.

Would you be content if I had pursued a strong and misguided suspicion without a backward glance on day 1? Would that make me seem more innocent? I was hesitant because I was by no means convinced of her guilt. She was my best bet so far, but I voted her in order to eliminate someone I'd continue to be suspicious of in the future, rather than to lynch someone I was sure was a wolf.Hesitation in itself is not fishy. The way you did it was. It might have been genuine for all I know, but it seemed too pronounced, too underlined, to be so. That, and you being one of the orchestrators of the original suspicion of Gal, makes for a fishy combination.

[Pomegranate]

That is actually a good point; and when phrased like that it does look fishy. But like you, I think I'd need to do some rereading in order to decide anything.

I think it's definitely a point, but I can't see it as too fishy. It didn't seem like Agan was trying to get anyone else to vote for Boro, how I read it is that she's so concentrated on their "dance" (and yes, your rhetoric does make that annoying to read, Boro and Agan) that she didn't have the concentration to go through anyone else. Which I understand, even though I don't see it as highly contributing. However, this message of Greenie's is starting to worry me. Feels like you have something especially against Agan (alliteration, even if not a pronounced but only a written one - the linguist in me jumps with joy ^^). We can't of course be sure about her, but Bom's vote for her would definitely seem to give to her some innocence points. After two days of discussing mainly her I feel like we should somewhat move on, broaden our vision, and I'll be definitely looking at you, dear Greenie, with some concentration.

edit. x/ed with Greenie's second one

[Inziladun]

We can't of course be sure about her, but Bom's vote for her would definitely seem to give to her some innocence points. After two days of discussing mainly her I feel like we should somewhat move on, broaden our vision, and I'll be definitely looking at you, dear Greenie, with some concentration.

I agree that Bom's vote should be a consideration regarding Agan, as I said here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=666321&postcount=195).

I really haven't seen where this suspicion of Agan has had a lot of merit thus far.
As Pom says, the focus on Agan should be broadened to include everyone, and especially any who have been quietly slipping along in the shadows....

[A Little Green]

I am not intending to spend toDay concentrating on Agan, I think that would be stupid. I talked about her because I wanted to comment on Rune's point and in the second post because she left me stuff I felt I needed to address before moving on to other subjects. Which, incidentally, is what I intend to do now. I'd like a look at a few less discussed players, probably starting with Glirdy and checking some others too if I have the time. Also, I think a proper look at the voting yesterDay might give us something.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

OK New Plan. . . I am in charge.

I do apologise if I have made a miscalculation and doomed us all.

Anyways the plan is this.

We do not lynch

Me
Boromir
Pommy
Greeny

why? You ask.

Because we are the good guys.

That leaves us with

Aganzir
Glirdan
Inziladun
Loslote

Even if we get everything wrong, we should be able to kill the BN before we are equal numbers.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Also I can prove that I speak the truth... as I know who Mablung is, who in turn can give us another innocent name.

[A Little Green]

That simplifies things. Rune is telling the truth. Shasta, whom he had forgotten from his list, is Damrod.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

That simplifies things. Rune is telling the truth. Shasta, whom he had forgotten from his list, is Damrod.

Sorry he got deleted when I was doing the calculation (for the sixth time).

[Aganzir]

BOM SUSPECTED
Agan - voted.
Rune - voted.
Shasta - didn't like him at all, once, on day 1. Questioned his logic on day 2.

BOM DEFENDED
Nate - didn't find her swift skill alarming.

THE REST
Lottie - bantered about.
Greenie
Boro
Glirdan
Inzil

I am assuming Rune is innocent, and Inzil too for that matter (see below). I can't say anything about Shasta because it was only a mild suspicion and even though Bom questioned him like once, it's hardly enough to prove anything.

I feel that with Bom being BN I lost the base from all my suspects so far, more or less. Rune gave Bom the final vote and has been wanting him lynched for quite a while, sally's dead, Bom gave Agan a vote he could've seen as final, Inzil voted for Bom as well
So Pom systematically suspected people who suspected Bom and/or whom his death pretty much exonerated?

I don't think it's impossible a fellow or two voted for Bom, but I find it somewhat unlikely. He wasn't the obvious lynch choice - as I see it, he was lynched for being quiet/unproductive rather than being an obvious BN. In any case, when we look at the votes he got yesterday... Inzil started it off because he wanted to save me (I am touched), and along came sally and Rune who had been making anti-Bom points for a while already. I think we can safely assume Inzil is also innocent because even if he couldn't have suddenly turned against me after everything he'd said about me, he could have voted for Glirdan and Boro instead of starting a bandwagon against a fellow.

I never quite understood Aganzir's vote for Boromir. She plays along with his antics, states that he acts like this all the time and so on. . . I probably need to read through her posts, but right now it seems to me her reaction has been rather odd.
He doesn't act like this all the time. He is up to something at all times, but sometimes he comes across as more genuine than he's now. You could say I found him suspicious from the first but kept testing him till I reached the conclusion I did yesterday. However, I can freely admit I am an extremely subjective player and few things, apart from a revelation of sorts and in all likelihood not even that, could now convince me of his innocence.

So, Lottie, my first post of the Day you're saying it's completely unproductive? That fact that everyone now knows I trust Rune more than anyone else today is completely counter-productive? And that I was possibly in the wrong to vote for Agan yesterday? Again, totally unproductive and you can't possibly read anything out of it?
Lottie didn't say that. She pointed out that your post looked like you were trying to minimise the damage caused by Bom's sudden and unexpected death. Either you're reading too much into it, or you're trying to twist her words. Did anyone else see the classic BN trick Boro just attempted?

Also, when I called your reason for voting Gal fishy or suspicious or strange or whatever it was, I was talking about that one particular point I had quoted, not the whole (the other arguments therein being ones others had stated too and that looked a little more valid.)
When I made the list, I considered for a while putting in the things I had said a couple of posts earlier, and decided against it and only wrote down the thing that had me wondering about her the most. I thought it might also serve as a little trap for people who'd want to highlight possibly suspicious things I'd said while leaving out bits and pieces, if you know what I mean. The fact that you cited it as the only reason I voted for Gal (later referring to my whole suspicion as "Agan's point against her") is extremely unsettling because what you're saying is basically "Agan voted for Gal without a reason". I should add that while Greenie did a nice job of analysing the day 1 voting, there is precious little we can learn from it because there were no BNs dead, and innocents lynch each other all the time with reasons that prove to be bad in hindsight, especially on day 1s. That kind of vote analysis actually reminds me of a shark swimming into a school of fish.

I still think it could be, as you know you'd say that same thing whether BN or innocent.
And if I did it regardless of my role, why on earth are you using it as a point against me?

Look, I was not and certainly am not saying for a fact that you are a wolf. I was saying that your actions concerning the Gal lynch would well fit a wolf. There's a difference.
The first one would be stating I'm a wolf. The second one is implying I'm a wolf. The first leads to you suspecting, maybe voting for me. The second leads to other people getting a vaguely uneasy feeling of me while you can sit back and watch, and, if I die, avoid getting my blood on your hands.

Hesitation in itself is not fishy. The way you did it was. It might have been genuine for all I know, but it seemed too pronounced, too underlined, to be so. That, and you being one of the orchestrators of the original suspicion of Gal, makes for a fishy combination.
There's nothing I can say to that.

Anyway I'm going to have a look at what people said about Bom (unless someone else managed to do it while I wrote this post).

[Aganzir]

Greenie, I hate you. So much that I want to hug you. Why why why do we always do this?

And Boro, I hate you too! (Except it was fun, but I guess it has to stop now, right?)

I'm just kind of laughing aloud here.

Thank you kind Rune!

[Inziladun]

OK New Plan. . . I am in charge.

I do apologise if I have made a miscalculation and doomed us all.

Anyways the plan is this.

We do not lynch

Me
Boromir
Pommy
Greeny

why? You ask.

Because we are the good guys.

That leaves us with

Aganzir
Glirdan
Inziladun
Loslote

Even if we get everything wrong, we should be able to kill the BN before we are equal numbers.

Also I can prove that I speak the truth... as I know who Mablung is, who in turn can give us another innocent name.

That simplifies things. Rune is telling the truth. Shasta, whom he had forgotten from his list, is Damrod.

Ah. Easy way to test this , isn't there?

x/d with Agan

[Shastanis Althreduin]

But I wouldn't mind hearing your own reasonings for voting G55.
I stated them right before I voted G55 - I thought she was being too intent on changing the subject early on, which ended up drawing attention her way.

1) Nowhere did I say I believed him innocent. If anything, I have less trust for Boro in these games then I have for you.

2) I agreed with him in thinking this pack is confident and bold. Which is Boro in a nutshell. We would be crazy to fully trust him. And yet, I did not outwardly say that I suspect him. I was pointing out a fact: Boro likes to steer conversations to his own benefit, much like tp, only with less ego. Noggins death on Night 2 is sure to be a conversation starter for numerous reasons, and one that a BN Boro could start and steer in any direction he chooses.

3) I also mentioned Sally in that post, or did you miss that?

One of the more interesting points I found today, and simply put - Glirdan is crazy overdefensive here. For point 1, I never said that you said you "believed him innocent". I said you agreed with him (which you mention in your next point.) Here's what I said -
Eh? I'm not really sure what you're saying here, because it looks like you're agreeing with Boro in one breath and then suspecting him in the next.
- so the fact that you felt like you had to overstate that you don't think Boro is innocent without reason feels incredibly jumpy to me.

For point 2, you may as well have. See here -
I feel a nervous pack would have been a little more hesitant in their kill selection which also leads me to believe that the Wolves want us to think this way. For all we know, either you yourself dear sallycake or Boro or maybe even both could have been the ones planning this during the night to help steer the conversation in the direction you so choose.
You basically say here that Boro and/or Sally "could have" planned the Nog-kill - which implies you have a reason for thinking such. Also, I feel I need to point out that you say you never said you believed Boro to be innocent, and yet you also say you didn't outwardly suspect him, either. These don't really seem compatible - either you believe Boro is innocent, or you suspect him.

For point 3, I'm aware you mentioned Sally. However, you hadn't agreed with Sally in the beginning of the very same post. Which is what caught my eye about Boro.

Shasta is the first to vote Gal. Not sure what the "dismissal" mentioned here is. Clarification please?
The dropping of the subject. I didn't see that G55 had ever responded to it after I mentioned it, so I figured she didn't have a response and was ignoring it, hoping it'd go away.

I am not thrilled with the two Agan votes. One came, seemingly out of the blue (or at least it seemed that way to me) from Boro, and seems to be due to some reasoning of his that the rest of us are not privvy to.
Really? It seems to me he's been suspecting her on and off since the game started. Boro's vote for Agan really isn't that surprising, is it?

My focus on Agan yesterday was mostly out of laziness and excessive pride in refusing to back out of a challenging dance.
Boro, you said this yesterday -
I realize I'm heading out to a store, and since there's only 2 hours til DL. I doubt it'll be that long of a trip, but don't really want to chance it. So..

++Agan

Thanks for replying dear, pretty much giving me the last assurance I need. I mean, come on, you should know even if I can convince myself you're a BN, it's a hard dilemma I face of voting you or not.

It's a battle of duty vs my heart telling me I love when you're evil and I like watching you in your full wolvish glory. I mean, it may make me a terrible person to say, and I'm certainly rubbish at the tango, but I still love our dances, even if we might be on opposite sides.
Did Bom coming up as a wolf really change your opinion of Agan that drastically?

So I guess the question would be, "why Sally?", though it seems obvious due to Bom being evil. I was wondering why they went for her and not me or Rune, but I guess the fact that she basically started the ball rolling on Bom did it.
That, along with that, like Nog, Sally really hadn't had a chance to do much, seems likely to me as well. Which means we have a pattern, which means we can speculate on who, as wolves, would consistently kill people who leave no trace (and this is where Agan comes in and says "that does us no good, why bother”. :p)

In retrospect he gave some clues, couching them in jokes.
I don’t necessarily disagree with you there, but why? Bom Numenorean had nothing to gain by hinting at his evilness, from what I can see.

Responds to Shasta, saying Nog didn't leave much to analyze as to why he was killed.
Which makes me want to do it even more, of course. Interestingly enough, Agan said the same thing later in the day.

I should have actually listened to sally instead of casting it off as "Bom is being like Bom and let me continue prodding Agan because I'm too lazy to think about anything else."
I don’t like this. Boro has spent the past two days making sure we all know how devious and manipulative he is, and this is the second time today he’s played himself off as being lazy.

So, Lottie, my first post of the Day you're saying it's completely unproductive? That fact that everyone now knows I trust Rune more than anyone else today is completely counter-productive? And that I was possibly in the wrong to vote for Agan yesterday? Again, totally unproductive and you can't possibly read anything out of it?

If you wanted to see the pinnacle of unproductivity from me, I thought you would have remembered my late useless post on the theory of Balrogs and Wings several villages ago.
This is also completely unproductive, Boro my dear. :)

That simplifies things. Rune is telling the truth. Shasta, whom he had forgotten from his list, is Damrod.
Also truth. Hi. Also, forgetting about me, Rune? :( Ouch.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Ah. Easy way to test this , isn't there?

x/d with Agan

Wait for Shasta to confirm it? Yes that is rather easy.

[Aganzir]

Ah. Easy way to test this , isn't there?
Lying would require guessing Mablung's identity correctly. There can't be three people lying.

And Inzil, if you are a wolf, I'm going to send you explosives in a nice white envelope (unless I can think of something more imaginative). I sincerely hope it's Glirdan and Lottie.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Wait for Shasta to confirm it? Yes that is rather easy.

Oh, don't y'all wait up on my account. [/Southern] :Merisu:

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Well, as for me, I'd be most comfortable with lynching Glirdan today. Agan is probably second on my list. Inzil and Lottie I need to look at more, but I think Inzil a bit more innocent than Lottie right now.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

For those of us that will perish in our attempt to eradicate evil, it is important to remember that death is not the end. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eF8pkI6Vowo&feature=related)

[Aganzir]

I'd prefer Glirdan or Lottie because I don't want to believe Inzil is a wolf. But it doesn't matter much because we can't really lose the game anymore (I checked Rune's calculations and affirm they're correct).

Anyway is it worth anything if I check what people said about Bom, or would you rather a known innocent did it? :p

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Going to nap now.

++Glirdan

*gives Mablung a hug and wanders off*

[A Little Green]

I had a quick look at Glirdan. The following does not include all his posts, nor are the quotes below necessarily full posts. I only included stuff I judged to be potentially of some importance. Here goes -

GLIRDAN, DAY 1

He starts the Day with banter like everybody else. His next post begins with an apology for not posting more. First actual game-related comment is as follows:
Now, I am not sure what to think concerning Agan and Boro. When I re-read Agan's first post after Boro voiced his initial concer of her, I found nothing overly suspicious in it myself. Actually, being the first to start any real form of discussion, I'd rather like to believe the opposite of Agan. However, with Boro gone for the Day, I would rather leave this and let it settle, at least for toDay, to let him gather his thoughts and deal with whatever happened. (and Boro, take the time you need my friend to deal with whatever happened).

Now, we're in a pickle as one of our most vocal players is out of commission for the time being and there are far too many of us flying under the radar, myself included. Very diplomatic. Could fault him with that, but I'm willing to give some early Day 1 -allowance here.

Glirdy didn't vote, and explained it, I believe, in the admin thread. Moving on -

DAY 2

Starts his Day with speculating on Nog's death.
I dont know about that one. I'm more inclined to agree with Boro. I mean, with the exception of Nate, we all know how dangerous an innocent/gifted Noggy is to the Wolves. Its already been said: why him? Well, it was a pretty traceless kill for them. Yet the same could be said had it been myself, or Shasta or any of the other quiet ones. I feel a nervous pack would have been a little more hesitant in their kill selection which also leads me to believe that the Wolves want us to think this way. For all we know, either you yourself dear sallycake or Boro or maybe even both could have been the ones planning this during the night to help steer the conversation in the direction you so choose.Shasta raised doubts about this one, and it's true he kind of suspects Boro based on Boro's own theory here. Not sure if that points to innocence or guilt, though! Also, I don't like the "for all we know" part, can't explain it really, but it gives me bad vibes.

Now, I hate picking on Newbies....yet something about Nate's first post toDay does not sit well. I'm not sure what it is....maybe it's her wording....maybe it's the over sincerity of having forgotten to vote yesterDay.The beginning looks a bit insincere, but it might be just that I have a general dislike for whatever precedes a "but" or, in this case, "yet".

Anyways, in my reading I noticed something. Lottie seems very....wish washy I think is the term I am looking for. This could just be me and my tendency of suspecting Lottie.What's really bothering me is how easily swayed she is by others and its things like that that make me leery. Trying to appease everyone is a tactic seen and used many times before by wolves, or BN's in our case. Now, I will give her credit for sticking to her guns and voting for G55 anyways. Yet she was a part of the reason we lost our Guardian, and if I'm correct, the leading cause. Now, it's quite possible that Lottie is simply a misled innocent and I wouldn't mind hearing a little more from her myself. Not overly fond of this, either - regardless of that I agree with his point about Lottie's wishy-washiness. The same thing about "buts" and "yets" as in the previous quote. He brings up a rather strong point against Lottie, then counters it with "Now--", then brings up another strongly phrased point against her, then counters that with "Now--". I'd understand that if it was that his overall opinion of Lottie was accordingly undecided. However, the way I read this post, he is clearly more suspicious of her than not. The same post ends with
However, there are others who voted for G55 who need to be looked at it....or in Shasta's case, need to be heard from.I feel like I'm getting paranoid because this doesn't sit right with me either, it looks opportunistic, but this time I'm pretty sure I'm just seeing things that aren't there.

Lottie defends herself from Glirdy's points, to which he answers as follows:
I wasn't too comfortable with that term [wishy-washiness] myself. And as I said at the end of the post, I give you credit for sticking to G55 and voting for her regardless, or did you miss that bit? I'm still leery about you. However, Zil also brought up an excellent point in your defense: you had though you voted first. Voting first an sticking to your guns as much as you had is way too bold a move for a Wolf, especially this early in the game. Yet you're not entirely off my radar.It's actually funny, he suspected Lottie for hastily backing off her suspicion when questioned, then proceeds to do more or less the same thing. I'm not sure a BN would do this.

Eh? I'm not really sure what you're saying here, because it looks like you're agreeing with Boro in one breath and then suspecting him in the next.
1) Nowhere did I say I believed him innocent. If anything, I have less trust for Boro in these games then I have for you.

2) I agreed with him in thinking this pack is confident and bold. Which is Boro in a nutshell. We would be crazy to fully trust him. And yet, I did not outwardly say that I suspect him. I was pointing out a fact: Boro likes to steer conversations to his own benefit, much like tp, only with less ego. Noggins death on Night 2 is sure to be a conversation starter for numerous reasons, and one that a BN Boro could start and steer in any direction he chooses.

3) I also mentioned Sally in that post, or did you miss that?My head starts to hurt every time I try to decide what to think about this whole thing. If anyone has any insight into it, be my guest. Then again, I'm not sure whether it's relevant.

In the same post, Glirdan comments on the more general discussion on whether analyzing the Night-kill is important (saying that he thinks it is). He then analyzes Gal and the Galwagon; not going to quote the whole analysis, but here's the ending:
Overall Thoughts

- Lottie seems the least suspicious of he four who voted, having had her suspicions from early on in he Day
- Zil is really starting to stand out to me, having had no real suspicion of her before. His explanation is also rather interesting, what with the "I will not throw away my vote" tactic.
- Rune and Bom's votes for each other caught my eye. Something about it bothers me, what, Im not sure.
- Agan and Shasta bear some watching, but both had reasonable an sound reasons for voting G55
- Sally's vote for Bom also has me concerned. It almost looks like a last minute attempt to save G55

The next post is here quoted in full:
An hour left and two votes cast for Agan, who I am in extreme reluctance to vote for. Her whole tone seems legitimately genuine, especially with her last few posts...on the other hand, that's what a BN Agan would want us to think.

I, like Nate am more inclined to vote for Zil or Sally. Zil's vote at the end of the Day yesterDay just does not sit well. It almost seed strategic in it's placement, securing the death of our Anborn. He gave no reasosns of his own and just sort of latched onto what was previously stated by Agan, Lottie and Shasta. Why not stick to your gut instincts and vote for someone you had really wanted to, even I it had been a "throw away".

Sally's vote also does not sit well. Again, well enough placed to draw attention away from G55. Her submarining is also a growing anxiousness of mine. Yet i've seen sallycakes do this as a Gifted as well, which is why I'm more hesitant to vote for her.Thinks Agan is innocent, suspects Inzil and Sally. The suspects are easy choices for a wolf, sensible for an innocent, so I'm undecided about those.

Votes Inzil:
++Zil

His vote placement and his agreeing with everything everyone says and his lack of having any true substance that is his own.I agree about Inzil's vote placement, as well as his contributions to the Galwagon. The rest, though - I believe Inzil is always suspected for slipping by unnoticed and lacking substance because of the way he posts, concentrating more on commenting than eg. crafting theories.

Overall? Glirdy has been more flip-floppy than I recalled, he's certainly been cautious, and the tone of some things he's said strikes me as false; on the other hand, his flip-flop on Lottie looks a bit too complete for a BN. (I, at least, often take pains to appear consistent in my suspicions when a wolf; it's harder to come up with sudden changes of mind than continuous suspicion.)


EDIT: oh dear, x-ed with a host! All the way since my last, I think.

[Glirdan]

Okay, I'm here, did a quick skim through of what's been said. And as much as I would love to defend myself against Shasta and others, I simply don't have the time nor the energy to do so. I'll be back soon after I've done a more thorough read through of the Day.

[A Little Green]

Greenie, I hate you. So much that I want to hug you. Why why why do we always do this?Because we're us, darling. It's a tango of another kind, I'd say. Also, I don't think you need this, but I can't resist quoting you back to yourself:However, I can freely admit I am an extremely subjective player and few things, apart from a revelation of sorts and in all likelihood not even that, could now convince me of his innocence.
*gives Mablung a hug and wanders off**gives Damrod a hug*

Honestly, though, I x-post with two people hugging me? <3

[Aganzir]

AGAN
GUILTY
Bom. Chaotic Evil doesn't sit well with defending the Realm of Men from the threat of Mordor.
...
If I had to vote right now, I'd be willing to go for one of those who have been posting mock votes. Namely Bom, Glirdan or sally.
GUILTY
Bom. I know this is way typical but I won't abstain from putting him here just because of it. If you suspect someone, state your reasons please.
I don't like Bom, but then again I never do. Gal still seems like my best bet.
**
Day 2
I'd actually also like to hear more from sally and Bom. I get irritated when people don't post, and want them dead just for that reason, and they may turn out to be gifteds and then I'm embarrassed.

GLIRDAN
Day 2
Rune and Bom's votes for each other caught my eye. Something about it bothers me, what, Im not sure.
...
- Sally's vote for Bom also has me concerned. It almost looks like a last minute attempt to save G55

INZIL
Personally I don’t like the way BomT made excuses for his voting future voting pattern in a post otherwise written in jest. I am probably over critical, because of how annoyed I got reading through all the jesting again.
Not that it means anything at this point, but Bom has a habit of doing things like that.
Bom is being a bit more cagey than his usual self, I think, but it could be a time issue. I haven't been here myself toDay as much as I'd like. Like G55, he tends to garner quite a bit of lynching attention as a rule, but even more so. I don't think I'd want to go for him toDay, with the lack of anything else from him to go on.
*vote for Gal* Looks worse than Lottie, I hate voting Bom Day 1, and it doesn't look like I'll have any takers on Sally. I'll not waste my vote.
**
Day 2
I'm hoping to see more activity when I return. Especially some of the more quiet ones like Shasta, Glirdan, and Sally; and I'm interested in what Bom has to say as well.
YesterDay I did put G55 and Bom in somewhat of the same boat. There didn't seem to be a lot of substance, and both do tend to be easy targets. It seems like Bom gets more early votes though as a rule, and it's at the point that I just don't like voting for him Day 1. I agree that it's a habit I should probably get out of, but there it is.
...
I would put Bom and Sally in the same category toDay. Very under the radar and hardly even visible. Could vote for either, if nothing better comes to mind.
Fine.
++Bom
I don't want Agan lynched.

LOTTIE
On day 1, said Bom (and several others) needed to post more so she could read him. I'm not quoting it because it's a list of names separated by *coughs*.

**

I'm not going to analyse these to any depth because it doesn't really serve a purpose, but here's everything we non-known innocents said about Bom. So Lottie and Glirdan barely talk about him, while Inzil and I are semi-suspicious, not the least because he's quiet, but acknowledge he's often an easy lynch.

Anyway, the voting is quite amusing. Basically Lottie voted for Glirdan, Glirdan for Inzil, Inzil for Bom, and Bom for me (who voted for Boro). However you look at it, there's bound to be BN-on-BN.

[A Little Green]

Also, Agan, do you still want me to answer those points you made? I can if you want to, but I think I have more fruitful pursuits too.. :p


EDIT: x-ed with Agan

[Aganzir]

Also, I don't think you need this, but I can't resist quoting you back to yourself:
I was expecting him to be the one to reveal, and that I wouldn't have believed. ;)

Also, Agan, do you still want me to answer those points you made? I can if you want to, but I think I have more fruitful pursuits too.. :p
No reason to exhaust yourself, darling. :p

[Boromir88]

Well, that certainly makes the load a bit easier, excellent work Rune. At least I was right on one thing, so far.

Shasta, it wasn't so much Bom's death which had me back off Agan today. I came to a couple realizations, one of which being I was completely lazy yesterday, and also a tad prideful in viewing Agan's post as a challenge...and so in my head I was seeing which on of us would balk first.

As it turns out, I did this morning, because it's entirely too silly to continue the contest. Not because of Bom's death, but because Agan knew all along what I was doing. If she knew I was trying to play the seer, and she is in fact a BN, I have no doubt I'd be on her early kill list, especially with no Anborn.

I mean what would you have me do? I'm an ordo poking along in the complete dark. I can't magically find a wolf, so my only concerns are, find out who's intentions I can trust, don't get any gifteds lynched (hence my regret not being able to vote Day 1, because I would have 100% opposed G55's lynch), and do my best to protect them at night be becoming BN-fodder.

Maybe I've been right about Agan all along, I don't know. I'm considerably less sure, but that doesn't bother me now that not only for certain do I know I can trust Rune, but Shasta and Greenie as well (two people who I would have started suspecting today probably). And I may be haphazardly poking for BNs in the dark, but at least everyone can see now my intentions have all been in the best interest of lynching BNs and protecting the gifteds.

Anyway, the voting is quite amusing. Basically Lottie voted for Glirdan, Glirdan for Inzil, Inzil for Bom, and Bom for me (who voted for Boro). However you look at it, there's bound to be BN-on-BN.

Ah, very true, but that's to be expected with this bunch. I'm more inclined to, if I had to vote right now, either Lottie or Zil. Since I don't I'm going to read Shasta's latest suspicions against Glirdan.

[A Little Green]

The two remaining wolves being among Agan, Inzil, Lottie and Glirdan basically means we have a 50/50 chance of getting it right toDay! Now, a few random observations, mainly about the relationships between our fantastic four -

- Inzil and Agan have been buddies pretty much since Day 1; each seems to trust the other. Kudos to them if they're both wolves, or both innocents, for that matter. Also, their conduct, especially regarding the Gal-wagon, is a bit too similar (hesitation between Gal and Bom followed by ciritically placed vote for Gal). However, that vote placement and the wavering before it still looks fishy, especially now that we know Bom was a BN. So I'd hazard a guess at one of these two being a baddie.

- Agan's reaction to Rune's reveal looked quite genuine to me; on the other hand, I'm still somewhat suspicious of her dealings with the Gal-wagon.

- Glirdan suspects Lottie and backs off when she defends herself (a bit similarly to Lottie momentarily backing off Gal when told that her point was almost word-to-word like Agan's). If that was wolf-on-wolf, it was pretty lame.

- Agan and Lottie agreed quite a lot on Day 1, didn't they? At least about Gal, at any rate. They also accidentally posted the same point in more or less the same words. Doesn't really say anything about whether or not they are in it together.

- Glirdan voted Inzil on Day 2; there wasn't much of a danger of him getting lynched though, not with the suspicion on both Agan and Bom running rather high. Possible wolf-on-wolf, possibly not. Can't recall anything Inzil has said about Glirdy.

- Inzil's relationship with Lottie? Agan's with Glirdan?


EDIT: x-ed with Agan and Boro

[Inziladun]

And Inzil, if you are a wolf, I'm going to send you explosives in a nice white envelope (unless I can think of something more imaginative). I sincerely hope it's Glirdan and Lottie.

If you're a wolf, I'm going to mail myself to you so I can personally smack you with a snowball. :p

x/d with Boro and Greenie

[A Little Green]

And Inzil, if you are a wolf, I'm going to send you explosives in a nice white envelope (unless I can think of something more imaginative). I sincerely hope it's Glirdan and Lottie.If you're a wolf, I'm going to mail myself to you so I can personally smack you with a snowball. :pAnd if you two are wolves together, I'm going to mail both of you explosive snowballs. Seriously.

Really, though, the excessive trust between these two is weird. But the problem is, it's weird whether it's wolf-on-wolf, wolf-on-innocent, or innocent-on-innocent.

[Aganzir]

Boro, you're a sweetheart. Your post made me smile, besides it's the most genuine-looking thing you've posted during this entire game. :p

- Inzil and Agan have been buddies pretty much since Day 1; each seems to trust the other. Kudos to them if they're both wolves, or both innocents, for that matter.
Speaking of which, there's a nagging doubt I've had for a day or two: if we're both innocent, why are we still alive? I would have expected the wolves to think one of us was the seer, or that we were Mablung and Damrod in the very least.
I just don't want to believe it because I don't like to think he fooled me so well.

If you're a wolf, I'm going to mail myself to you so I can personally smack you with a snowball. :p
That almost makes me wish I was a BN. :p

[Aganzir]

And if you two are wolves together, I'm going to mail both of you explosive snowballs. Seriously.

Really, though, the excessive trust between these two is weird. But the problem is, it's weird whether it's wolf-on-wolf, wolf-on-innocent, or innocent-on-innocent.
It would be perfect if we were. So much fun. I think I'll have to try this with a fellow next time I'm a wolf. :p

[Boromir88]

Boro, you're a sweetheart. Your post made me smile, besides it's the most genuine-looking thing you've posted during this entire game. :p
Hehe thank you kindly.


Speaking of which, there's a nagging doubt I've had for a day or two: if we're both innocent, why are we still alive? I would have expected the wolves to think one of us was the seer, or that we were Mablung and Damrod in the very least.
I just don't want to believe it because I don't like to think he fooled me so well.


And seriously that was my thought like that last 2 days. Huh, Agan said if I continue to pursue lynching her she would convince everyone she's innocent...does that mean she's a gifted? The seer didn't make sense, because I don't think you'd handle our...confrontation...like you did. So, then it's like, well Mablung or Damrod makes sense, considering how trusty she is with Inzil and vice versa.

I mean it's unlike my declaration of trusting Rune today, because that was based off how his actions over Bom's lynching. But yours and Inzil's seems purely based on...well I don't know what. It suggests either M & D, which is not possible. Or BN & BN but that also seems, as Greenie said...too weird.

[A Little Green]

OK, tried to look into Inzil's relationship with Lottie, well, turns out there really isn't one. Lottie hardly talks about inzil at all, which looks fishy. Inzil mentions her on several occasions, which are related here; including, also, a few interactions with Glirdy, Agan and Bom.

Lottie seems innocuous, and I can't really fault her for the G55 suspicion, though as I said a G55 lynch could be a worthy BN (Beastly Nosebag) endeavour.Fluffy.

Darn it.

++G55

Looks worse than Lottie, I hate voting Bom Day 1, and it doesn't look like I'll have any takers on Sally. I'll not waste my vote.I think this vote has been discussed enough to last a couple of lifetimes, but I'd have felt stupid not including it.

Also, Lottie's vote for G55 wasn't the first, that was Shasta's. But Lottie crossed with Shasta so she thought she was making the first vote there.
Now, starting a bandwagon isn't necessarily a terrible risk for baddies, but I thought Lottie's case was sound enough by Day One standards.From Day 2; the way I read it, it's a slight defence of Lottie.

I would put Bom and Sally in the same category toDay. Very under the radar and hardly even visible. Could vote for either, if nothing better comes to mind.Unless I'm mistaken, this is the second time he considers voting Bom.

I already said why I didn't go for Sally. I dislike wasting a vote.

As for latching on to others' words, what exactly are you doing with Pom's?This one is a response to Glirdy; a bit too edgy for wolf-on-wolf maybe, too eager to accuse to be a simple answer to a question.

Fine.

++Bom

I don't want Agan lynched. Now this is actually a really interesting piece. The question is, would an evil Inzil have bussed Bom? It was a risky move, to be sure, but it was also the first vote for Bom. Might have been that Inzil didn't think Bom was in much of a danger - or else, thought he was in such a danger that busing him in order to look better himself looked a viable option. Furthermore, that he did so to save Agan looks downright crazy if he's a wolf and Agan is not - but then, so would busing one fellow to save another... In short, I had almost made up my mind that Inzil is probably a BN but this last one made me reconsider. Thoughts, anyone?

Another thing. Agan, since you're around, care to elaborate? Why are you so sure Inzil is innocent? (Inzil, if you're around, same question about Agan.)


EDIT: x-ed with Boro

[A Little Green]

That said, I need to go to sleep soon, I'm pretty much exhausted and have a long day tomorrow! I've no idea who to vote, probably not Agan, but if she is innocent then I'd hazard a guess at Inzil being a wolf, which doesn't make sense either, so my brain kind of hurts. Might go for Glirdy or Lottie after all.

[Loslote]

Thank you muchly, Rune dear - if I'd seen this half an hour earlier, I could've caught the shopping shuttle and gone to buy more yoghurt after all! Ah, well, yoghurt is an acceptable sacrifice for basically winning the game. :p

++Glirdan

Just to get that over with...I suspect Glirdan - ridiculously more than Agan (who I've thought of as one of the more innocent-sounding players for pretty much the whole game) or Zil (who I haven't really thought of at all, and is probably the other wolf, just by process of elimination) - and obviously know that I am not myself the evil type. ;)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I am sorry I have been lazy. Instead of analysing I had a snack, it tasted good (I also watched a cooking show).

Personally I don't really care who we vote for today.

I also thought that Aganzir's response seemed genuine, which was a bit off putting, as my original plan had been to join forces with Boromir and get her killed.

Inziladun is the one I have been the most suspicious about, but one has to remember that Glirdan and Loslote are the people I have paid the least attention to in this game.

[A Little Green]

Personally I don't really care who we vote for today.

I also thought that Aganzir's response seemed genuine, which was a bit off putting, as my original plan had been to join forces with Boromir and get her killed.

Inziladun is the one I have been the most suspicious about, but one has to remember that Glirdan and Loslote are the people I have paid the least attention to in this game.I would've been quite ready to proclaim Inzil as a wolf, but his Bom vote made me reconsider his case.

Lottie makes my head hurt by voting Glirdan; I'd have kind of hoped for the two of them to be BNs together (so that I wouldn't have to find a solution to the Agan-Inzil-problem); they still could be, Lottie might attempt to bus Glirdan in order to survive herself. Still, she seemed a bit too genuinely happy about the news for me to suspect her that much..

So my current guess would probably be that the last two are Glirdan and Inzil. Not willing to bet on that, though!

[Inziladun]

Another thing. Agan, since you're around, care to elaborate? Why are you so sure Inzil is innocent? (Inzil, if you're around, same question about Agan.)

You know, it's really just a gut feeling, and has been the entire time. Maybe our physical resemblance has now manifested in a psychic bond. :eek: :cool:

Well Shastrod, and now Lottie, have voted for Glirdan. Not that it matters ultimately, but is that the way we're going toDay?

x/d with Greenie

[A Little Green]

Anyway, looks like it's bed-time for me.

++ Glirdan

He's the one I'm most comfortable about voting, that is, the one with the least arguments for his innocence; and if he turns out innocent, I'll know who to look at *coughlottieinzilcough*

Let's hope for the best, good night,

your friendly neighborhood Mablung


EDIT: x-ed with Inzil and possibly someone else too

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Yeah I think we are going to vote Glirdan, it appears that he isn't even prepared to defend him self.

[Glirdan]

With three votes for me I think it's about time I throw another name on there for consideration.

++Zil

I am sticking with this for the reasons I stated yesterDay as well as a few others, one being when he said this:

Ah. Easy way to test this , isn't there?

When I first saw this, red lights started flashing. This was in context to The reveals made by Rune and Greenie (Shasta had not yet posted). Why even suggest this if there are two people who can confirm Rune's reveal when one BN is already dead?

The second might seem a little personal, and it kind of is, yet it still holds merit.

Well Shastrod, and now Lottie, have voted for Glirdan. Not that it matters ultimately, but is that the way we're going toDay?

This scentence just screams wanting to save his own hide when he's not even on the board, and at this time, I'm an easy bandwagon with three votes already. Easy to hide in.

So, if I get lynched toDay, lynch him for me tomorrow.

[Inziladun]

When I first saw this, red lights started flashing. This was in context to The reveals made by Rune and Greenie (Shasta had not yet posted). Why even suggest this if there are two people who can confirm Rune's reveal when one BN is already dead?

My view was that since Rune was obviously revealing as Faramir, all that needed to be done to prove his legitimacy was to vote for one of his non-cleared individuals. Seems pretty cut and dried.

This scentence just screams wanting to save his own hide when he's not even on the board, and at this time, I'm an easy bandwagon with three votes already. Easy to hide in.

So, if I get lynched toDay, lynch him for me tomorrow.

At least you're going down fighting. Admirable.

++Glirdan

[Boromir88]

I believe that makes 4 votes for Glirdan?

In that case...

++Inzil

Not because I trust your innocence at all Glirdan, but for the fact that I couldn't care less whether it's you or Inzil today. And well, this may make the decision a bit more interesting...or at least Rune, Agan and Pom can decide between the two of you.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I will follow Boromir's example and let others make the final decision.

++Inziladun

[Aganzir]

And seriously that was my thought like that last 2 days. Huh, Agan said if I continue to pursue lynching her she would convince everyone she's innocent...does that mean she's a gifted?
You know, some ordos are willing to sacrifice themselves to protect the gifteds, or at least confuse the wolves. ;)

Agan, since you're around, care to elaborate? Why are you so sure Inzil is innocent?
At first it was just a gut feeling (no doubt influenced by the fact that he found me innocent too - yes I am this easy to buy), but even now I don't have an easy time picturing him starting a bandwagon against a fellow. I know Inzil is a freaking good villain, and wouldn't put it past him to keep the name of a fellow BN among his main suspects for several days in a row... but there would still have been an easier way out, especially as the seer was still around to ruin the effort.
Anyway, there has been BN-on-BN voting for certain, and out of Inzil, Lottie and Glirdan, I consider Inzil the most ruthless. So at the moment I don't think it's impossible he's a BN. I'm just going to be very upset if he is.

I also thought that Aganzir's response seemed genuine, which was a bit off putting, as my original plan had been to join forces with Boromir and get her killed.
I don't doubt I could've faked looking genuine if it had come to that. ;) That's one of the few things I'm good at in this game (finding wolves generally not being one of them).

You know, it's really just a gut feeling, and has been the entire time. Maybe our physical resemblance has now manifested in a psychic bond.
:D

++Glirdan

I'm off to bed. School sucks. (With this attitude, I feel like I was 15. Maybe I should start painting my eyes black again.)

[Pomegranate]

Gee, a lot happened here. I managed to read Rune's post before going out, though, so no big surprises. I don't know what I should think about the fact that you got me checked :P I genuinely suspected you, though, and would've loved to to catch you. Oh well, maybe in the next game. Seems like the decision is made already, since I'm the last person voting if I count correctly, but just to stick to my opinion from yesterday:

++Inzil

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Gee, a lot happened here. I managed to read Rune's post before going out, though, so no big surprises. I don't know what I should think about the fact that you got me checked :P I genuinely suspected you, though, and would've loved to to catch you. Oh well, maybe in the next game. Seems like the decision is made already, since I'm the last person voting if I count correctly, but just to stick to my opinion from yesterday:



Well...

I chose Boromir, because I knew he would get a lot of attention, also I thought it likely that he wouldn't get killed at the very beginning.

Normally I would have chosen Nogrod on the second night, but given his inactivity I thought it too risky. Instead I chose you, as a newcomer I had no idea how to read you, also I figured that both rangers and BN's would let you live for a while.