Meeting at the Town Cobbler (WW XCV game thread)

[satansaloser2005]

The game will open with a Day phase, starting at 5pm CDT (in 23 hours). The committee (wolves) will not be able to converse before this phase.

This thread will be updated by the time the game opens. More information will be given before then, but for now, please read the following note you find upon entering the Cobbler.


https://p.twimg.com/AqUTR3-CMAQfj2u.png:large



Dear guests:

Thank you for accepting my invitation. I regret to inform you that I will be unable to join you before morning, as I had unexpected obligations. Since my time will now be shorter than expected, I trust you, my honored guests, to decide who among you will be able to best make use of our time in the morning. For any who are not selected for our breakfast seminar, return airfare and other compensation will, of course, be given. Thank you for your patience, and welcome to the Cobbler.

*SS*






Do not post on this thread until told otherwise. Please be sure to check your PM box for your role. The game will commence at 5pm CDT on Friday (in ~23 hours).

[satansaloser2005]

The Town Cobbler is empty except for the young men and women who have been asked to work for the evening. The sky is a bit cloudy, so the staff put on their brightest smiles (as well as some tea) and wait for the guests to arrive. This is going to be an interesting weekend.

Steve, Nog, and Greenie trudge through the door, rather exhausted from their flight, while Agan just strides in and starts chatting up the person at the front desk. Nog checks his phone and is unsurprised to see that he has no signal. He stuffs it in his pocket, drops his bags by an empty table, and orders a drink.

Rikae and Mac, having left their evil yet adorable little ones with a friend for the weekend, are the next to arrive. Mac makes his way to the front desk, but is informed that check-ins will not begin until all the guests have arrived. He and Rikae then order drinks and sit down beside Nog, making polite conversation and checking their phones, which, like Nog's, have no signal. They are puzzled by this development but ignore it, setting their phones on the table and continuing their chat. Do balrogs have wings, or some other things?

McCaber, Shasta, and Dun walk in together, talking about this year's Arda Cup and their chances of beating Gwath in this year's competition. Intending to text a friend, Shasta is surprised to see that he's in roaming (mostly because the last time he was in the area he couldn't pick up a signal at all). He shrugs, drops his phone in his sweatshirt pocket, and remindsMcCaber that he doesn't have a chance.

Lottie stumbles in carrying a stack of books in her arms. Struggling to balance them all, she hears the telltale signal that lets her know that, as it has been for most of her trip here, she has no phone signal. She grumbles a bit about the annoyance then slumps down at a table, cracks a book, and starts reading, mumbling apologies to anyone who walks by and attempts to start a conversation.

Wanting to make an entrance, Wilwa skips in with a basket of muffins in her hands. She doesn't even bother to check her phone, munching on a muffin instead, and is saddened to see that Sally couldn't make it to the Cobbler. After all, these are some amazing muffins, and it would be difficult for Sally to think of a snarky remark in the presence of such fabulous confections. She shrugs, asks the young man at the counter for a bottle of water, and sits down to read a book.

As you all sit around various tables in the Cobbler, someone’s phone rings. You all check your various devices, but it is Boro who stands up, texting madly to the person on the other end of the conversation. “Crap,” he mutters. Without acknowledging any of the other guests, he grabs his coat from one of the hangers by the door and rushes out, mumbling something about a puppy.

Those of you who remain exchange confused glances, then one of the staff brings out a round of drinks for everyone and you settle into your chairs, striking up conversations with those around you. The young man assures you that you will be able to check in shortly, then disappears into the kitchen to help finish dinner.




In the Cobbler:
Rikae
Lottie
Shasta
Dun
Greenie
Agan
Nog
Wilwa
Mac
Steve
McCaber

Checked out:
Boro





It is now Hour 1. The hunter may send me a pick at any time. The rest of you should start chatting. Good luck!

[Inziladun]

Good scotch, this. Dewar's, I believe.

So what's going here anyway? What's that Boro fellow up to? Is he coming back?

[Inziladun]

Hm. One thing I find interesting is the communications setup. notably this:

Every phase, one person will be randomly selected to be able to send a message to one other person in the game (this person must still be in the Cobbler, and if a wolf is selected, they may not PM a packmate). If that person chooses to respond, they must do so within 24 RL hours. The original sender may not reply to this message.

I see this as having more benefit for the committee members. Innocents (other then the Eavesdropper) won't know anyone else's role. So what do you say? If you're honest about a suspicion or whatnot, you risk giving the committee something they could use. If you're deliberately deceitful, you could be doing a disservice to a fellow innocent.
On the other hand, the baddies could simply use the opportunity to further their own ends, with little worry.

Thoughts on this?

[McCaber]

Let me put my pondering hat on. It's been too long since I've had the chance to do this, and I might be out of shape.

I see this as having more benefit for the committee members. Innocents (other then the Eavesdropper) won't know anyone else's role. So what do you say? If you're honest about a suspicion or whatnot, you risk giving the committee something they could use. If you're deliberately deceitful, you could be doing a disservice to a fellow innocent.
On the other hand, the baddies could simply use the opportunity to further their own ends, with little worry.

Thoughts on this?

Well, it's more information than you had, which is always useful. And if what you're given doesn't jibe with posted positions, it lets you know something might be up. I wouldn't trust it implicitly, but it's definitely a tool that can be used to learn things.

Whether or not the things you learn are what the messager wants you to, that's between the two of you.

[satansaloser2005]

Cell signal resumes for a moment, then, once again, you have no bars. What a pity.



(I cleared out my inbox. My apologies for not doing so before I left.)

[Inziladun]

Well, it's more information than you had, which is always useful. And if what you're given doesn't jibe with posted positions, it lets you know something might be up. I wouldn't trust it implicitly, but it's definitely a tool that can be used to learn things.

What do you mean "posted positions"? Someone contradicting themselves from the thread to a PM? I'd still be concerned personally talking with someone privately I can't be sure of.

Cell signal resumes for a moment, then, once again, you have no bars. What a pity.

That's actually typical for my cell service. It won't work in my office or my favorite grocery store. :rolleyes:

[McCaber]

What do you mean "posted positions"? Someone contradicting themselves from the thread to a PM? I'd still be concerned personally talking with someone privately I can't be sure of.

Not even contradictions, but signs or intuitions that something may be off.

Of course it's a reason for concern, but I think that any information you find is a benefit to you if you remember that it might be an attempt to mislead. This is a limited-information game, and to an ordo who has no other cards in play, it's a chance to get a step up.

Of course, the statements could be from a seer trying to see if s/he can trust you or a wolf trying to mislead you (possibly into thinking they're the seer and getting you to back a play of theirs). But I feel that while there's risk, there can also be rewards.

[Inziladun]

Man, is it ever quiet. Don't we have to vote in less than twelve hours?

[wilwarin538]

To get in on this discussion. I think Inzil is partly right that this messaging thing might benefit the committee more than the innocents, but I think the Seer would actually be the person most benefited if they get chosen (depending on when they get chosen). If they've dreamed of an innocent they could contact that person and let them know who they are, tell them the dreams, and have themselves an ally.

Really all anyone else could do is contact someone they feel good about. But only getting 1 message back and not being able to respond again makes the conversation very limited. And the committee would probably use this tool to mislead people in some way.

So I don't know, I can't really think right now how useful this will be, but hopefully it does end up being beneficial. But again, I agree with Inzil, I have no idea what it is most of us could really say, maybe something we're not sure we're prepared to suggest on the thread, so we could say it to one person to see if it makes sense? Even that though...

Anyway, this game should be interested. If people show up :p

[A Little Green]

Agh, I'm still somewhat confused by all the twists, so don't mind me if I'm incoherent! Wilwa brings up a good point about the Seer, makes me feel better about her (I don't think a wolf would dare bring that up, just in case the Seer had not figured that out him/herself). Other than that, I agree with Inzil that the PMs are tricky for innocents. Though I bet they are that to the wolves too, for I guess trying to fool somebody in a private message is a deal harder than in the thread.

[wilwarin538]

I think the messaging thing will get more useful the further we get, once people have better opinions about people and once more has happened.

Where is everyone? I have to leave in less than 2 hours...

[McCaber]

Wilwa brings up a good point about the Seer, makes me feel better about her (I don't think a wolf would dare bring that up, just in case the Seer had not figured that out him/herself).
A wolf could still have brought that up hoping to make a false seer claim down the line.

Not that right now I think Wilwa's a wolf, but she isn't automatically innocent.

If more people don't start showing up, I might need to pick a name of a quiet one from a hat.

[Inziladun]

A wolf could still have brought that up hoping to make a false seer claim down the line.

Not that right now I think Wilwa's a wolf, but she isn't automatically innocent.

I agree. And who's to say the person contacted by the "Seer" should trust xe is being honest? There's just no way to know who's being honest.

If more people don't start showing up, I might need to pick a name of a quiet one from a hat.

As unwelcome as that idea is, I may be forced into it as well. I haven't seen anything voteworthy from those who have actually spoken thus far. Then again, we could vote no one and not have a death toDay.

On an RL note, I fear our moddess could be in for some rough weather in her corner of the world today and tonight. Stay safe, Sally!

[Boromir88]

Inconceivable! The entire bag!? *mutters* of course I really know what that word means

[wilwarin538]

Then again, we could vote no one and not have a death toDay.


Considering how small the group is I could be persuaded to do that. There's what, 11 people? 3 wolves, 3 gifteds, 5 ordos, high chance of hitting an innocent, especially with so little information to go on. I hate voting people on random, especially if some people might just be busy in RL or not have realized we started. Waiting one day I don't think will put us at much of a disadvantage...

But then we would of course be losing a chance to get a wolf, which we could still get lucky enough to do. I don't know, I hate just picking someone out of a hat with nothing to go on.

I have another half hour before I need to go to work. So when I get back I'll vote or if people think we should forgo a lynch today than I will support that too.

edit: x'ed with Boro aka Vizzini

[Rikae]

I'm here and reading, but there seems to be little to say at the moment. Naturally Wilwa is right about the possibility of the seer communicating with a known innocent, and naturally, that would be the easiest thing in the world for a wolf to do as well.
The fact that Greenie doesn't seem to have noticed that makes me raise an eyebrow.

My better half needs to stop playing Minecraft and post or I'll vote for him.

That's all for now.

[Macalaure]

It seems like people think of the messages mostly as a means to convey something to somebody else. Don't forget that your message prompts somebody to write a message back. If you send something to somebody you're not sure about, that's a good way to learn (even if they don't reply).

I don't think the information offered in a message is worth much. A reveal might be fake, and any opinions given are probably already available in the thread anyway, or have to be taken with a bucketful of salt. Like Greenie mentioned, as a wolf, I would be nervous to write a message: the risk of giving something away (even if it's just a bad vibe) is not necessarily worth the opportunity to sow some deceit.

Talking about bad vibes, Wilwa is giving me a slight one right now, but I can't say why. Nothing else to say right now.

[Eönwë]

Wow, it's quiet here.
On the Night-messaging, I don't think there's that much to say other than that it will become useful later in the game. A question to Our Moddess: What are the rules on talking about the secret correspondances? I mean, it could affect the game alot (http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.co.uk/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html).

And remind me to never go against a Boro when death is on the line.

edit: x-ed with Mac

[Nogrod]

Unbeknownst to most of you, a small portion of the group has been planted to ensure that the people meeting with the expert are worthy of being involved in the upcoming discussion. They will privately converse from time to time and inform SS and their staff of their findings to recommend removal of certain attendees from the guest list. Some of the more astute or suspicious members of the group may notice this and try to change the others’ recommendations or even reveal their plans to the rest of the group.Okay. Queueing to meet this famous Tolkien -expert and some people wish to block the entry for some of us? On which grounds are some of us deemed "worthy" or "not worthy" then?

Should we just call for the removal of all the serious Tolkien cognoscenti then as they are the only ones I could think would qualify as the gatekeepers on this kind of an issue...



But - and here's actually a more serious question - the rules say that this small secret group will recommend the removal of some of us to SS (and "staff"???), and then that we can try to change the "others' recommendations" if we are astute or suspicious enough. So what does this actually mean?

Turning it to a werewolf-vocabulary: are there independent Day-Night sequences where vote-kills and lupine-kills follow each other or are there only vote-kills?

"Changing the recommendations" sounds like we have a say over the secret society as what they do is to give "recommendations". Or am I reading too much into this?

I mean I'm a bit confused about all the new rules - or especially all this "watch your cell-phone" or "follow me upon Twitter" -stuff etc. Like I'm not sure which is for the game itself and it's mechanics and what is just for fun.

Well, it probably clears out, but if SS would like to shed some light I'd appreciate.


On a third note, I'm in the middle of a huge essay-reading period ending on Monday-evening so my participation might be more or less erratic before that.

[Nogrod]

Like Greenie mentioned, as a wolf, I would be nervous to write a message: the risk of giving something away (even if it's just a bad vibe) is not necessarily worth the opportunity to sow some deceit.
I remember the last time there was this kind of twist, I was a wolf then, and I think it was one of the most challenging things I have done as a wolf; trying to accomplish something when given the opportunity to PM someone but being soo afraid not to reveal my lupine interests that in the end it turned out just whimsy good-for-nothing...

So it is a hairy thing... also to the wolves. :D


But yes, I kind of like that opportunity as it gives a new level to try and find something. It's one more new piece of "evidence" anyway - like lies in the court are evidence as well as true accounts - or the lawyers' traps.

[satansaloser2005]

One of the staff raises an eyebrow at the voice outside and quietly excuses himself, rushing out the side door to investigate the commotion. You hear the young man and Boro speaking in not very hushed tones, then it grows silent outside yet again.



Also, please note that the Town Cobbler does not allow pets, and thus all wolves or any other animals, domesticated or otherwise, must be kept outside.

(Because, you see, there are no wolves here. I feel better now. Moving on.)

[satansaloser2005]

Wow, it's quiet here.
On the Night-messaging, I don't think there's that much to say other than that it will become useful later in the game. A question to Our Moddess: What are the rules on talking about the secret correspondances? I mean, it could affect the game alot (http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.co.uk/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html).

From the admin thread:

You may not re-post "text messages" from any source.

You can allude to such things, but you may not re-post any private conversation, whether it be in full or in part. People shouldn't be peeking over your shoulder at your phone. I think it's rather rude, really.

[satansaloser2005]

This game's mechanics function like any other game, with the exception of the additions of "text-messaging" (PMs between players) and overhearing the conversation upstairs (which only gives hints as to SS and other wackiness, not to actual roles within the game).

[Inziladun]

Inconceivable! The entire bag!? *mutters* of course I really know what that word means

Returned, I see. Care to say what happened? Then again, we might not want to know. ;)

But then we would of course be losing a chance to get a wolf, which we could still get lucky enough to do. I don't know, I hate just picking someone out of a hat with nothing to go on.

Thankfully, folks have begun to show up, so it appears to be a non-issue now.


It seems like people think of the messages mostly as a means to convey something to somebody else. Don't forget that your message prompts somebody to write a message back. If you send something to somebody you're not sure about, that's a good way to learn (even if they don't reply).

It still seems risky to me. If you don't know the alignment of the one you're talking to, should you be honest with thoughts and suspicions, or not? The baddies have the advantage because they know more about the other than vice-versa.

Talking about bad vibes, Wilwa is giving me a slight one right now, but I can't say why. Nothing else to say right now.

Hm. She said she might be all right with no one dying toDay, which on the surface looks rather like an innocent. Still, there is a difference between talking about something and having to act on it.

Turning it to a werewolf-vocabulary: are there independent Day-Night sequences where vote-kills and lupine-kills follow each other or are there only vote-kills?

I haven't seen anything to suggest lynches go on in the Night phase, but maybe we'll get clarification all the same.

"Changing the recommendations" sounds like we have a say over the secret society as what they do is to give "recommendations". Or am I reading too much into this?

I thought our influence was through our votes.

I mean I'm a bit confused about all the new rules - or especially all this "watch your cell-phone" or "follow me upon Twitter" -stuff etc. Like I'm not sure which is for the game itself and it's mechanics and what is just for fun.

Same here. I guess I'll just roll with it and see what develops.

But yes, I kind of like that opportunity as it gives a new level to try and find something. It's one more new piece of "evidence" anyway - like lies in the court are evidence as well as true accounts - or the lawyers' traps.

Courts and lawyers, eh? As if I needed another reason to foment my mistrust here. :p

x/d with Our Moddess

[satansaloser2005]

Please be advised of storms in the immediate area. For your safety, we ask that you stay inside the Cobbler until such time as the storm passes. If you have any concerns, members of the staff will, of course, be happy to assist you.


(The power's flickered a couple of times here, so if my phone dies I won't be around to call DL. As of now, it shouldn't be a problem, but I wanted to let you all know anyway.)

[Nogrod]

Btw. did the Day (hour) start six minutes late, 54 minutes early, or something completely diffferent?

I had had the understanding the DL would be something like in the early hours of the day for us here on the east coast of the pond, but if the DL is in about two hours (1AM here), then it makes a huge difference to me as it means I can be around, at the DL at least on some days...


Be as it is, it has been probably the quietest Day1 I remember. And I admit I'm part to blame myself as well. My thoughts have been on the pile of essays - and will be for the next two days.

I need to be away for a while now but I'll be back in an hour or so and hopefully there is a game going on then...

[satansaloser2005]

Boro and the young man walk back through the door, both of them soaking wet.

"Well," Boro says, "I guess I'm stuck here for a couple of hours."

(Boro seeks entertainment, as do I. He does not have a role and will not be affecting the game. He's just here for entertainment value.)


P.S. Oh, and Nog, the DL is in about an hour and a half. I was just delayed slightly when I posted yesterday.

[Boromir88]

LIAR! You haven't warned them of the approaching storm. Many are calling it the storm of the millenium! Who calls it the storm of the millenium? I DID!

[Inziladun]

(Boro seeks entertainment, as do I. He does not have a role and will not be affecting the game. He's just here for entertainment value.)

Hey, we're all here for entertainment value. ;)


LIAR! You haven't warned them of the approaching storm. Many are calling it the storm of the millenium! Who calls it the storm of the millenium? I DID!

You, and the SPC (http://www.spc.noaa.gov/), pretty much (yes, I am a certified Weather Geek).

[Nogrod]

The DL in less than forty minutes and this is all we have, even by way of entertainment? :p

Okay. Then we'll go with this - and whatever happens next.

One should have known about these geek-gatherings, everyone just sitting glued to their iWhatevers, Blackberries, tablets and laptops. No face-to-face communication whatsoever. Oops, my Android-phone tells me I have notifications from the 20+ forums I'm heatedly debating the wings of the Balrogs, the colour of Dr. Spock's socks, the possibility of a new theory about area 51 - and of course the latest news about the Arda Cup...

[Eönwë]

Hey, we're all here for entertainment value. ;)
Well, that's definitely true.

On a serious note, however, I really don't think enough's been said toHour* for me to be able to make a decision about who to vote. At least so far, anyway.

There's only half an hour left of toHour!:eek:



*Yes, toHour is what I think it will make sense to use this game.


edit: x-ed with the Nog

[Inziladun]

It really isn't good to be so close to DL and have really nothing on anyone.

Mac had an unfocused suspicion on Wilwa, but I really haven't seen anyone else suspecting.

Let's see, who are the current no-shows?

Lottie,
Shasta,

and Agan.

One of them? Or no vote toDay? Or do we trust to the odds in a small number of players like this that we hit a baddie?

x/d with Steve

[McCaber]

Well, we've got half an hour to go and I still have no credible thoughts one way or another.

Inzil I'm getting honest vibes from, but that could just be from the first few posts when it was just us.

No one else has really posted anything of substance, but from the folks with one or less I have to say Greenie's the one I like least so far.

EDIT: crossed with a few

[Nogrod]

Looking at the situation we're in I might second Inzil's and wilwa's proposal of not lynching anoyone at this Hour.

There's insanely little to say about anyone and looking at the general numbers it looks like a hit in the dark. I normally don't like the idea of a non-lynch as lynching is the only way we can kill the wolves, but this looks like ridiculously random.

What do you think?

If we vote, I might consider Greenie (surprise!) - not on exactly the same grounds that Rikae said, but a related one. But it is thin indeed - like any reasoning I can do right at the moment.

[Rikae]

Terrible, terrible Day (hour) 1. You should all be ashamed. Of course, I wasn't any help.

*is ashamed*

Nogrod, what is your reason for suspecting Greenie, however thin? Any discussion is better than none.

I'm not too sure about this idea of lynching no one. Gives the baddies a free... 2-hour period, I guess: a risk free kill for them. With these numbers, the chances that we'd lynch one are actually better than usual.

[Eönwë]

Looking at the situation we're in I might second Inzil's and wilwa's proposal of not lynching anoyone at this Hour.

There's insanely little to say about anyone and looking at the general numbers it looks like a hit in the dark. I normally don't like the idea of a non-lynch as lynching is the only way we can kill the wolves, but this looks like ridiculously random.

What do you think?
I don't really feel comfortable voting for someone (unless we go for someone who hasn't spoken yet, as Inzil suggested, but that seems unfair considering how little those who are here have said), since there's not really enough to go on to make any proper suspicion. On the other hand, the alternative means that we're giving the wolves- erm, Committee members- a free Hour, but on the other hand (Yes, a third hand, I know), there's a large chance of killing an innocent, which would be worse.

edit: x-ed with Rikae

[Nogrod]

The thing about Greenie I dislike / suspect is that she goes on explaining why a wolf wouldn't have done what wilwa did (dare to talk about how a seer might try to play) and that that is the reason she feels good about her.

Really, a wolf would exactly "dare" to do that. A wolf would love to point that out if none else had done it as the seer surely has thought of that. And I remember Greenie most often being on the camp which says "you elitists don't you think the gifteds can't think themselves!" when someone dares to suggest something to the gifteds - but now she thinks the seer might not have thought of the obvious?

So that I find a bit dubious.

[Inziladun]

There's insanely little to say about anyone and looking at the general numbers it looks like a hit in the dark. I normally don't like the idea of a non-lynch as lynching is the only way we can kill the wolves, but this looks like ridiculously random.

I hate these kinds of dilemmas too.

Not voting squanders our chance of getting a committee member, so it isn't my desire. However, we certainly have even less this Day 1 to consider than usual.

If we vote, I might consider Greenie (surprise!) - not on exactly the same grounds that Rikae said, but a related one. But it is thin indeed - like any reasoning I can do right at the moment.

I don't know. That's the problem. I might could go for one of the submarines out of desperation.

x/d with last three

[Macalaure]

With this kind of silence today (and I don't mean just volume, since I only posted once as well, but actual points/suspicions), we made it easy for the wolves. The lynch will be virtually random, no matter how much we might try to come up with something sensical now.

Shasta, Lottie, and Aganzir have not shown themselves yet at all.
Rikae, Greenie: just one post, with nothing to go on.
Inzil keeps the conversation going. As a wolf he could conveniently slip into the background, or at least take himself back. Feeling good about him right now.
Nog: I can't find a reason to suspect him, which makes me suspicious. :p
Wilwa - re-reading her posts, I think the vibe I'm getting is that of someone who's a wolf and tries rather hard to find something to talk about, so that she won't be suspected for not contributing. (Not exactly the best reason, is it?)
Steve posts a bit, but doesn't really say much. I'm a bit wary there.
McCaber looks alright, like Inzil with less of a post count.

[satansaloser2005]

Check-ins begin in approximately ten minutes.

[Nogrod]

Okay. It bothered me, why would Greenie behave that dubiously and I checked the rules for something that I thought might apply...
the committee will not be able to discuss anything until the end of the first hourSo she was trying to signal a possible fellow-wolf? I mean if they don't know each others identities, then they should try to do something to not let a fellow-lynch to happen.

Which thought actuslly puts the idea of no lynch thisHour into a different light as well...

[Macalaure]

So if I understand this correctly, if the voting is tied, we don't lynch anyone, but every non-vote is cast randomly?

In that case trying to orchestrate a tie/non-lynch is impossible considering the number of people who will likely miss the vote.

[Nogrod]

Okay.

I'll go for a try.

++ Greenie

[Inziladun]

I don't really feel comfortable voting for someone (unless we go for someone who hasn't spoken yet, as Inzil suggested, but that seems unfair considering how little those who are here have said), since there's not really enough to go on to make any proper suspicion. On the other hand, the alternative means that we're giving the wolves- erm, Committee members- a free Hour, but on the other hand (Yes, a third hand, I know), there's a large chance of killing an innocent, which would be worse.

It does seem a bit unsporting to get someone who hasn't posted. I just don't really know who else to vote for though.

The thing about Greenie I dislike / suspect is that she goes on explaining why a wolf wouldn't have done what wilwa did (dare to talk about how a seer might try to play) and that that is the reason she feels good about her.

Really, a wolf would exactly "dare" to do that. A wolf would love to point that out if none else had done it as the seer surely has thought of that. And I remember Greenie most often being on the camp which says "you elitists don't you think the gifteds can't think themselves!" when someone dares to suggest something to the gifteds - but now she thinks the seer might not have thought of the obvious?

So that I find a bit dubious.

x/d with Mac and Nog

I guess I see what you're saying. It's a bit thin, but that's hardly surprising this time.

I see Mac has elaborated on his Wilwa bad vibe, which he readily admits is pretty thin.

Crud.

[Eönwë]

But Nog, the fact that they are not allowed to discuss would suggest that they do know the identities of the others. Though I quite like the sound of the idea of letting the committee attack each other, I doubt a Mod would allow such things.

[Nogrod]

In that case trying to orchestrate a tie/non-lynch is impossible considering the number of people who will likely miss the vote.unless we establish our intentions early enough... which I think we should do (not an exemplary Hour thisHour... :o).

[satansaloser2005]

So if I understand this correctly, if the voting is tied, we don't lynch anyone, but every non-vote is cast randomly?

In that case trying to orchestrate a tie/non-lynch is impossible considering the number of people who will likely miss the vote.

Incorrect, sir. If someone misses two votes without reason, then their vote will be cast toward a random guest. And yes, in the event of a tie, no one dies.

[Eönwë]

thisHour
I like it. That's definitely better than what I was using.

[Inziladun]

So if I understand this correctly, if the voting is tied, we don't lynch anyone, but every non-vote is cast randomly?

In that case trying to orchestrate a tie/non-lynch is impossible considering the number of people who will likely miss the vote.

Does that only go for the second consecutive non-vote? I don't remember.

x/d again with last three.

[Rikae]

There's what, 11 people? 3 wolves, 3 gifteds, 5 ordos, high chance of hitting an innocent, especially with so little information to go on.

Lower than the chances of hitting an innocent in a village of 16 with 4 wolves. Also, there is rarely much to go on in Day 1.

This bugs me. I mean, I can see wanting to prolong a game that may be short, but, as I see it, skipping toDay's lynch is actually to the baddies' advantage.

[Macalaure]

Ah, got it.

Then let's tie it:

++Wilwa

[Rikae]

So if I understand this correctly, if the voting is tied, we don't lynch anyone, but every non-vote is cast randomly?

In that case trying to orchestrate a tie/non-lynch is impossible considering the number of people who will likely miss the vote.


Good point. I forgot that, but non-voting will actually just take the lynch out of one's own hands and put oneself at risk.

[Eönwë]

My mind is too jumbled to come up with anything clear thisHour, so I think I'll have to abstain.

[Inziladun]

All right.

++Wilwa

Cos I'm more sure about Mac's innocence than Nog's.

Best I've got.

[Eönwë]

Actually, that's a good point. If we're tying:

++Lottie

[Nogrod]

Interesting...

[Rikae]

Does that only go for the second consecutive non-vote? I don't remember.

x/d again with last three.

Oh, ok then.

I'm not on board with a tie/non-lynch, and my two suspects are up for lynching. Hm.

[Rikae]

Ack. DL.

[Inziladun]

Interesting...

Indeed. It should probably worry me that I'm getting innocent vibes from Mac.

x/d with Rikae x 2

[Eönwë]

Interesting...

Very.

[satansaloser2005]

Please feel free to take your bags up to your rooms. The young man at the desk will have your keys. If you need any help, don't hesitate to ask.

(Deadline.)



Sorry, all. It's a bit mad around here, so I'll fill in the actual story line later.

Wilwa has left the Cobbler. She was part of the committee.

[Macalaure]

If Wilwa is innocent then clearly Mac and Inzil conspired to save their packmate Greenie.

[Nogrod]

So when will you tell us the result SS so that we can continue the discussion?

I mean do I go to sleep or are you telling it like soonsh that I should stay up for a moment still?

[Nogrod]

Oaky. I think I'm really off with the rules.

Last time I read them I got the idea we can talk 24/7 but now as I skimmed them through I couldn't be that definitive anymore.

So do we have Nights and Days (Nights= not talking) even if we just call them hours. or are some "hours" just for silence?

[satansaloser2005]

Once you've all checked in, we'll be serving drinks in the main lobby, and we'll have some entertainment arriving shortly, weather permitting.

(Yeah, keep talking. There's no silent phase for the ordos.)

[Eönwë]

Hm... that IS an interesting twist.

[McCaber]

So Mac and Inzil have a high probability of not being wolves. Because at that point there were enough people with zero that picking another wolf to tie it would have been a risk I wouldn't want to take were I in that position.

[Nogrod]

okay. Just trying to figure this out by checking the rules...

All players may post on the thread at all times. Each phase of the game will represent a single hour spent in the Cobbler.

Though Days and Nights technically do not exist in this game, wolves may only PM during “Night” phases.So we are allowed to post 24/7?

Then every 24 hours we vote for someone and every next 24 hours the wolves try to eliminate one? But we call them Hours and not Days / Nights, even if they follow each other the same way as Days & Nights. And thus the only difference is that the speech is free all the time (except for the wolves who can only plot every other Hour)?

But what then does this mean?
Please feel free to take your bags up to your rooms. The young man at the desk will have your keys.So we'll continue discussion from our rooms - in Facebook or msn (imaginary or real?)...



Failing to vote on any two Days of the game (not consecutively) without reasoning will result in your vote being cast toward a random person in the game (decided by die roll). You will be included in your own absentee roll.

Votes must be highlighted and time-stamped at or before X:00. Anything time-stamped after the hour will not be counted.Okay, you explained the first one already. But how strict will you be with the highlighting thing? I mean technically I think we lynched no one if non-highlighted votes do not count?

The game will begin with a Day phase; thus, the committee will not be able to discuss anything until the end of the first hour (allowing time for the group to meet, mingle, and then sort of get to business). I am happy to take suggestions on whether it would be a terrible idea to not reveal the other committee members until the end of the first Day phase.So it is an issue that was only suggested and pending...

Well, my suspicion on Greenie rests on the "committee members" in fact not knowing each other - as that was how I somehow had read that piece in the rules earlier. In that case she might have had a motive to signal to her partner (and that would have been pretty witty way of doing it), but if they knew each other already, then that of course would have been futile and risky - something I don't think Greenie would have done.


So could you deart SS elaborate on these few questions?


EDIT: X'd with the SS, one question answered, a few still to come... :)

[Inziladun]

Oh, wow. Can't believe I got it right. This calls for a Guinness, I believe. :)

[McCaber]

And I'd say that wilwa being a wolf definitely means she had wanted to set up a false Seer play somewhere on down the line.

And she wanted to not raise any flags with the village on whether or not to lynch today. Lucky synchronicity there between Mac and Inzil to give us an early lead.

[Eönwë]

And I'd say that wilwa being a wolf definitely means she had wanted to set up a false Seer play somewhere on down the line.

And now, Nog is right. It does implicate Greenie.

[Macalaure]

Wow, guess I'm not that rusty after all. :)

I know it's not in the intended spirit of this game, but I would advise against too much analysis etc. during the night phase. It really only helps the wolves to sort out their own kill if they know who the inn thinks is innocent and who not. Usually they have some guesswork to do regarding the village's upcoming reaction to the lynch, which complicates their kill decision.

[Eönwë]

I was referring to this (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=669158&postcount=38), in case it's not clear.

And I'm tired and my mind still feels jumbled so I'm going to retire to my room for the next half an Hour.

edit: x-ed with Mac, who's right of course.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Completely surprised that this started already. I'm too used to startup days that are longer than usual... anyway, I'm hanging about now.

[Inziladun]

I know it's not in the intended spirit of this game, but I would advise against too much analysis etc. during the night phase. It really only helps the wolves to sort out their own kill if they know who the inn thinks is innocent and who not. Usually they have some guesswork to do regarding the village's upcoming reaction to the lynch, which complicates their kill decision.

I agree with this. The committee gets to discuss "real-time" what's said. I wouldn't say "no talking" either, just to watch what you say.

[McCaber]

I agree with this. The committee gets to discuss "real-time" what's said. I wouldn't say "no talking" either, just to watch what you say.

Dangit, Inzil. Every time I try to get ahead in the post count apparently you have something to say. If you hadn't found a wolf, I might be getting a bit upset right now.

/good-natured ribbing

[Inziladun]

Dangit, Inzil. Every time I try to get ahead in the post count apparently you have something to say. If you hadn't found a wolf, I might be getting a bit upset right now.

/good-natured ribbing

Something. :D

[Macalaure]

I agree with this. The committee gets to discuss "real-time" what's said. I wouldn't say "no talking" either, just to watch what you say.

Yep.

I just meant the long-y analysis posts or any points one wouldn't expect anybody to come up with by themselves.

They will be able to see the general flow of opinions, there's nothing that can be done about that. Considering how unpredictable the reaction to even fairly clear gifted reveals can sometimes be, that's a significant advantage.

If I were into conspiracy and odd tactics, I'd say let's all post stuff we don't really mean during the night. :D

I'm suspecting Inzil quite a bit right now. His vote looks incredibly fishy to me. :smokin:

[Inziladun]

I'm suspecting Inzil quite a bit right now. His vote looks incredibly fishy to me. :smokin:

I think you'll have my vote next Hour as well. It's best to be sure. :p

A rather slow start to the game, but I foresee interesting times ahead. I'd expect nothing less from a Sally-moddess.

[A Little Green]

Bleh. So sorry for yesterDay! I don't think I've ever before remembered a game is on (and even posted, for heaven's sake!) and then forgotten it again, but apparently that is possible. *rolleyes* As for me not trusting the Seer to realize the PMs could be used to contact known innocents - hmm, I guess I'm just not that good with twists, but I certainly didn't think of that before Wilwa pointed it out. (Though I confess I didn't speculate a whole lot about the rule twists in general, it might have occurred to me had I stopped to think.) The deal is, I can be decent at spotting wolves when innocent, or playing innocent when a wolf, but I'm lousy with twists and plots and bluffs. My brain doesn't work that way, for which reason I often miss stuff others find obvious.
Well, my suspicion on Greenie rests on the "committee members" in fact not knowing each other - as that was how I somehow had read that piece in the rules earlier. In that case she might have had a motive to signal to her partner (and that would have been pretty witty way of doing it), but if they knew each other already, then that of course would have been futile and risky - something I don't think Greenie would have done.What I find interesting, Nog, is that you suspected me already before you came up with a reason for it, yet now you act as if that reason (which, by the way, doesn't really work) was why you had started suspecting me in the first place.

Also, Inzil and Mac bring up a good point about not talking carelessly during the Night phases. Makes me a bit paranoid, actually!

[Nogrod]

What I find interesting, Nog, is that you suspected me already before you came up with a reason for it, yet now you act as if that reason (which, by the way, doesn't really work) was why you had started suspecting me in the first place.Well, now you clearly haven't read the thread or then I have expressed myself unclearly. The post you quote above is one after it was "revealed" (= someone asked about it & I checked the rules and found them ambiguos indeed) we actually don't know whether the wolves knew each other from the beginning of the game or not. As I had thought things from the POV of them not knowing each others identities I thought you looked pretty fishy indeed, but with the possibility that the wolves actually knew each other already that theory would go down the drain. And I posted to just make that point: that whether I suspect you or not from now on, depends a lot on the rules being this or that way.

There is actually another issue we should think about if we knew the actual state of the affairs. I mean if the wolves didn't know each other I would say that it would have served the wolves' interests if we didn't lynch anyone on the first Hour. So looking at the developement of that "no lynch thisHour" idea and peoples reactions to it might be a good idea.

So could you SS tell us what the rule was?


Also, Inzil and Mac bring up a good point about not talking carelessly during the Night phases.It just leaves us with a duty to define "careless talk". :)

No revelations to be sure during nightHours as the wolves can discuss tactics to counter them. I'm tempeted to add Mac's idea about not making any thorough analysis or coming forth with anything like "game-changer" ideas.

Which is kind of sad as we for once have a chance to talk 24/7 - and then it's better not to. But I think no can do.

Well, it will be easy to me thisHour as I'm now going to bury my head into a pile of essays for the rest of the day.

[Nogrod]

While making myself a full kettle of coffee I just remembered one more thing we'd need the info about the wolves' initial knowledge or the lack of it.

Now if the wolves didn't know each other the actual votes cast yesterHour tell us more or less nothing (but the "no lynch thisHour" ideas as well as tries to bring on a tie might still mean something), but if they did, that would more or less declare Zil and Mac innocent as voting your mate at that kind of a situation would be reckless indeed (unless Mac tried to make a really bold tie declaring his wish to make a tie and vote for a mate to produce it - uhh, that would be daring and beautiful - but perhaps not that probable).

[Inziladun]

There is actually another issue we should think about if we knew the actual state of the affairs. I mean if the wolves didn't know each other I would say that it would have served the wolves' interests if we didn't lynch anyone on the first Hour. So looking at the developement of that "no lynch thisHour" idea and peoples reactions to it might be a good idea.

Hmm. That's a good question. All I see is the following from the opening post in this thread:

The game will open with a Day phase, starting at 5pm CDT (in 23 hours). The committee (wolves) will not be able to converse before this phase.

The fact that they were told not to talk with one another before Day 1 begins would suggest they were aware of their mates' identities. Maybe the moddess will clarify (or perhaps leave it unknown to torment us :rolleyes:).

[A Little Green]

Nog, my issue with your suspicion of me is that you first expressed suspicion over my "dubious" behaviour and only after that came up with a reason why exactly it makes me look evil.
The thing about Greenie I dislike / suspect is that she goes on explaining why a wolf wouldn't have done what wilwa did (dare to talk about how a seer might try to play) and that that is the reason she feels good about her.

Really, a wolf would exactly "dare" to do that. A wolf would love to point that out if none else had done it as the seer surely has thought of that. And I remember Greenie most often being on the camp which says "you elitists don't you think the gifteds can't think themselves!" when someone dares to suggest something to the gifteds - but now she thinks the seer might not have thought of the obvious?

So that I find a bit dubious.

Okay. It bothered me, why would Greenie behave that dubiously and I checked the rules for something that I thought might apply...
the committee will not be able to discuss anything until the end of the first hour
So she was trying to signal a possible fellow-wolf? I mean if they don't know each others identities, then they should try to do something to not let a fellow-lynch to happen.See what I mean? You first point out a suspicious bit of behaviour and only later think of a reason why it's suspicious. Doesn't work that way, mate. Just saying.

[satansaloser2005]

Okay, you explained the first one already. But how strict will you be with the highlighting thing? I mean technically I think we lynched no one if non-highlighted votes do not count?

Meh. It'd be doing me a big favor to highlight them, but I'm not going to count non-highlighted votes as non-votes, because then we could get into loads of trouble.

There is actually another issue we should think about if we knew the actual state of the affairs. I mean if the wolves didn't know each other I would say that it would have served the wolves' interests if we didn't lynch anyone on the first Hour. So looking at the developement of that "no lynch thisHour" idea and peoples reactions to it might be a good idea.

So could you SS tell us what the rule was?

Wouldn't you like to know? :Merisu:

[Inziladun]

Meh. It'd be doing me a big favor to highlight them, but I'm not going to count non-highlighted votes as non-votes, because then we could get into loads of trouble.

Sorry about that. I'll highlight from now on.


Wouldn't you like to know? :Merisu:

Well, I called it.

Maybe the moddess will clarify (or perhaps leave it unknown to torment us :rolleyes:).

[Inziladun]

Actually, in the event that the committee did not know one another until the end of the first Hour, not voting would have been the smart way for them to go. That would explain why Wilwa said she was on board with no one dying.

[Nogrod]

See what I mean? You first point out a suspicious bit of behaviour and only later think of a reason why it's suspicious. I see and I don't... :)

First I only noted that you said a wilwawolf wouldn't have pointed out the scenario with the seer - which is both odd and plainly false - and that it leads you to trust her (well, that she looks good because of that). Now that was looking dubious as itself. But then I also remembered that you tend to be one of those who scorns others for discussing the gifteds and what they should do and now you seemed like perfectly happy with the speculation by wilwa. That made it more suspicious.

But to be honest that was not much and - like I said - it bothered me as to why you acted like that.

And it was only later I was able to "connect the dots" when I realised there might be a connection between the wolves not knowing each other and them needing to signal each other - and that your behaviour does fit in.


So yes I suspected you earlier with less and later with more reasons.

And then - in the quote you made originally - said that a lot of my suspicions will depend on what the rules actually were.


Talking of which... Wouldn't you like to know?
The wolves lost one of their number already on the first hour - so should I interpret your reluctance to tell it as not willing to give up that information because it might hurt them even more? Or are you just teasing us... which knowing you would be quite believable as well. :rolleyes:


Actually, in the event that the committee did not know one another until the end of the first Hour, not voting would have been the smart way for them to go. That would explain why Wilwa said she was on board with no one dying.Well, that's what I've been trying to say - and why learning the way it was would help us.

Although I am interested more in the reactions of the still living rather than explaining why wilwawolf said what she said (which kind of looks self-evident from that POV).

It is not any straightforward thing to be sure, I was myself almost bending to the side of thinking let's not lynch anyone - before I realised that it was possible the wolves might love it, and I wasn't willing to give them a free pass in that case.

But all that aka. what we can say on these issues depends on whether Sally is willing to tell us or not.


Okay. I'm back to read yet one smallish pile of papers for today and hopefully able to stick around for a short while before going to sleep. I hope to see some discussion when I come back.

[Nogrod]

Inzil is actually the person to suggest it already 4 hours before the DL by saying: “Then again, we could vote no one and not have a death toDay”. Wilwa agrees on that.

After that Inzil brings the idea forth again in #33 (not clearly committing to any solution though). I entertain the idea in #35. Rikae slightly disagrees with it in #36. Eönwë goes to and fro with it and ends up more like saying yes than no in #37.

With Eönwë’s comments it’s about half an hour to the DL.

Not voting squanders our chance of getting a committee member, so it isn't my desire. However, we certainly have even less this Day 1 to consider than usual.
Now this bothers me somewhat. “So it isn’t my desire”? Why on earth to say something like that? And he actually continues in the same post quoting my voiced suspicion on Greenie and admittal that my reasoning is pretty thin with this: I don't know. That's the problem. I might could go for one of the submarines out of desperation.
So let’s not lynch anyone or let’s lynch someone who has not been around? It tends to be quite rare the wolves do not play (it is possible but rare) so how come this suggestion at this moment? It is a village of only ten…

Mac continues by saying that the lynch will be virtually random (in #40). In #43 he speculates how hard it would be to arrange a tie.

I go for a try to get a lynch done in #44 (vote Greenie, 6 minutes to the DL).

Rikae says (in #51): "This bugs me. I mean, I can see wanting to prolong a game that may be short, but, as I see it, skipping toDay's lynch is actually to the baddies' advantage".

Mac says “Let’s tie it” (votes wilwa, 2 minutes before the DL).

Eönwë says he will abstain from voting at .00 hours (in #54).

Inzil says “all right” (votes wilwa, at .00 hour), because he trusts Mac to be more innocent than me in #55.

Eönwë wants to tie as well (votes Lottie, at .00) in #56.!!!

Rikae says she is not on board with the non-lynching / tie at .01, her top suspects are voted for as well (in #58). She realises she had missed the DL already (in #59).

~*~

Votes:
Nog -> Greenie
Mac -> Wilwa
Inzil -> Wilwa 2
Eönwë -> Lottie

No one else voted.


~*~


So what do we learn?

I still think a lot depends on the fact whether the wolves knew each others' identities or not. But as long as we don't have that knowledge we have to stick to other sources of speculation.

Now Inzil looks pretty suspicious to me. He started the speculation in good time and it feels like he first just notched it forwards carefully. Also his willing to lynch a submarine instead of no lynch in as small village as ten looks suspicious.

If the wolves did not know each others' identities on Hour1, I would actually be willing to bet (well just a little) on Zil & Greenie being our remaining "committee members". If they did know each other though, then I really need to re-consider as then it looks far less likely, especially Zil's vote would look far better then (well, depending also whether it was a cross post or not).

Continuing the speculation... Eönwe's behaviour in the end was kind of interesting as well. First he announces he will abstain from voting, then he tries a tie. Why? Wishing to save wilwa or Greenie then (knowing his mate was in trouble)? He probably didn't know about Zil's second vote for wilwa as it is posted at the same minute.

McCaber? Why didn't he vote? He was right there before and after the DL! I'm looking forwards to hear some explanations to that. Also how come Rikae missed the DL as well? Well, she at least cursed it. McCaber I didn't see even commenting on that...


I'll add the boldings to the beginning later as I'm willing to post this before the DL (and need to have a cigarette next).

[satansaloser2005]

A cell phone vibrates against a wooden table. Its owner picks it up, illuminating the screen and reading the display.



1 New Message

It is our opinion that McCaber should not stay until morning. While he is chattery, he has said little to advance our discussions thus far. Also, he's eaten all the mints.

Regards



Mere moments later, McCaber receives a call via the Cobbler phone, which informs him that he is needed back home to attend to some work business. He leaves his drink on the bar, gathers his things, and walks out.

When he returns home, he finds a check for his expenses and a small cake.





In the Cobbler:
Rikae
Lottie
Shasta
Dun
Greenie
Agan
Nog
Mac
Steve


Checked out:
Boro (went to deal with his puppy after riding out the storm)
Wilwa (committee member, realized she left the oven on)
McCaber (guest, expelled for hogging the cashews)

[Inziladun]

McCaber, eh? Standard question, "Why him?" I'll look back at what he said, but first this.

Nog, the question of whether the committee knew one another before apparently will remain a mystery, at least for now.

As I said here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=669214&postcount=88), however, I think not voting would have been the obvious option for baddies in the dark.
I did suggest, and considered it. If I were one of the committee, I could have easily followed through on it with consistency.

[Nogrod]

Well then. Forget my questions on McCaber... why him beats me right now, although his last min ute action was odd, and I need to go to sleep like now.

I was having an intention to make a comment about Mac as well but the DL came too early for me to have time to include it there. But okay, swiftly now.

So did you really think a tie would have been a good idea Mac? If you are a wolf and knew wilwa was as well it would have been really bold & beautiful; "listen to me, I will make the tie right now and none of you shalll vote after me" - well, that actually sounds more like the phantom... :rolleyes:

Okay. More later - and hopefully I'm not the only one to post on this thread thisHour.

[Inziladun]

What can we get from McCaber? These are the only posts that might stand out.

Here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=669133&postcount=13) he refutes Greenie, who liked Wilwa's comments about the Seer getting the most benefit from private communications. He said that didn't mean Wilwa was evil, but also wasn't necessarily innocent because of that.

Maybe him being concerned about the Seer was a red flag? That's pretty shaky.

Here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=669154&postcount=34) he says he gets "honest vibes" from me, but singles out Greenie as the one he liked least. He was non-committal about everyone else.

He failed to vote, and after DL said (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=669188&postcount=68) he thought Mac and I were probably innocent because of our votes.

And that's pretty much it. I wouldn't think his being targeted would point to Greenie on its own, since he wasn't very forceful about it, and didn't actially vote. That said, Greenie's support of Wilwa does raise an eyebrow for me.

[satansaloser2005]

Shasta sneaks off to his room. The weather is making him uneasy.


(The weather is bad in his area, so he may be here very little or not at all.)

[Macalaure]

My first impression of the McCaber-kill was that it made sense. Inzil and I look most innocent after the voting yesterHour(???) and were thus likely ranger picks. Unless they thought I was the seer (obviously not the case), it was not worth going after either of us. McCaber looked pretty innocent (I thought), so he was a good no-trace kill, since the only solid thing he leaves is some early strategy discussion and him thinking Inzil and me are innocent. He did also say that he liked Greenie least among the one-posters.

Analyzing the voting, I noticed that Nog was in fact only the third person to mention Greenie negatively (Rikae and McCaber did so before). If he's a wolf who knew that Wilwa might be in moderate trouble, picking up on the mild suspicions of others, elaborating on them, and placing a preventative vote, would make sense to protect his fellow. Much more innocent-looking than waiting for a Wilwa-vote and then trying to put up a competing bandwaggon on the fly.

I do like Nog's point against me. It's wrong, but I still like it. If I was a wolf and Wilwa innocent, that's definitely something I could see myself doing. However, I would have been more strongly about telling people to make the tie possible (while hoping and being optimistic that it would fail). Doing wolf-on-wolf in such a situation is an entirely needless risk, though.

And, yes, I did think a tie would have been a good idea. There was little participation and the village had virtually no clue what it was doing. Our chances were little above the random 27%.

[Inziladun]

My first impression of the McCaber-kill was that it made sense. Inzil and I look most innocent after the voting yesterHour(???) and were thus likely ranger picks. Unless they thought I was the seer (obviously not the case), it was not worth going after either of us. McCaber looked pretty innocent (I thought), so he was a good no-trace kill, since the only solid thing he leaves is some early strategy discussion and him thinking Inzil and me are innocent.

Yes, but if it was only a no-trace they were after, some better targets might come to mind. Lottie, Shasta, and Rikae, for some.

Analyzing the voting, I noticed that Nog was in fact only the third person to mention Greenie negatively (Rikae and McCaber did so before). If he's a wolf who knew that Wilwa might be in moderate trouble, picking up on the mild suspicions of others, elaborating on them, and placing a preventative vote, would make sense to protect his fellow. Much more innocent-looking than waiting for a Wilwa-vote and then trying to put up a competing bandwaggon on the fly.

Nog's vote, the first of Hour 1, does look better than if it had come later.

And, yes, I did think a tie would have been a good idea. There was little participation and the village had virtually no clue what it was doing. Our chances were little above the random 27%.

I was antsy about voting for anyone Hour 1, but in the end I felt no one leaving would play to the baddies more. I still think that would have been much better for committee members who didn't know one another. That might look a bit bad for Eönwë, putting up Lottie at the last minute and making, as far as he knew, a three-way tie.

[Loslote]

Sorry I'm late! My cab driver took a shortcut through Canada...I think he might have been avoiding the storm. I'm here now, though! :D [/IC]

Really, though, sorry I'm late. :o

As I said here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=669214&postcount=88), however, I think not voting would have been the obvious option for baddies in the dark.
I did suggest, and considered it. If I were one of the committee, I could have easily followed through on it with consistency.


Zil's point here makes sense, but I don't like the way he phrases it, especially not the last sentence. It's natural to defend yourself, but this feels a bit too...needlessly defensive, considering that he was one of the two people who killed our first committee member. ;)

[Inziladun]

Zil's point here makes sense, but I don't like the way he phrases it, especially not the last sentence. It's natural to defend yourself, but this feels a bit too...needlessly defensive, considering that he was one of the two people who killed our first committee member. ;)

Well, I thought it was self-evident. Since Nog brought it up though, I felt the need to hammer it home.

This is all since my last? I trust Shasta made it through the storms all right?

[Rikae]

I don't understand.

What indication was there that the committee didn't know each others' identities on Day 1? It seemed like a pretty straightforward case of not being able to PM each other (because it was day). The identities of other wolves are commonly sent in the role pm - looks to me like Sally is just leaving it open to create mystery now that Nog brought it up.
As for Nog's use of it, it doesn't seem necessary as an explanation for why the committee would want to skip yesterHour's lynch, anyway. They only needed to eliminate five people: five hours if they were lucky. I'm sure they would prefer that three of those hours be on their own terms, ie, "night", rather than three up for risky voting.
I'm also a bit confused about your vote, Inzil. All's well that ends well and everything, but you'd expressed a desire to tie the votes earlier, and then broke the tie, explaining it by saying you trusted Mac. What was that about?

[Rikae]

Wait, ok, I see that Inzil says he changed his mind.

[Rikae]

What was this about, anyway?

Actually, that's a good point. If we're tying:

++Lottie

[Inziladun]

Voting in four hours! Even for such few players, things surely are quiet.

What indication was there that the committee didn't know each others' identities on Day 1? It seemed like a pretty straightforward case of not being able to PM each other (because it was day). The identities of other wolves are commonly sent in the role pm - looks to me like Sally is just leaving it open to create mystery now that Nog brought it up.

Sally had considered before beginning the game the possibility of the committee not knowing one another the first Hour. Her first post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=669102&postcount=1) in the Game Thread still leaves some ambiguity, saying only that the baddies would not be able to talk before the opening of the first Day phase.

As for Nog's use of it, it doesn't seem necessary as an explanation for why the committee would want to skip yesterHour's lynch, anyway. They only needed to eliminate five people: five hours if they were lucky. I'm sure they would prefer that three of those hours be on their own terms, ie, "night", rather than three up for risky voting.

Right. If they didn't know one another then, it would seem pretty edgy for them to have wanted to vote, when they could abstain with no penalty. Lynches are certainly a tool for baddies, but they're the only means for innocents to win the game, so it seems to me a tie would have been better for the committee (have I said that before? ;)).

[Eönwë]

What was this about, anyway?
Well, I was originally not going to vote at all, because I couldn't see someone who I could genuinely say I found suspicious. Then, when Mac suggested the lynch-tying (which I completely forgot about), I thought that it would probably be best to go with that, considering the fact that with so little posts, the committee would clearly be at an advantage with vote-steering, and that it might be best to try to keep it as a lynchless tie. What didn't occur to me in my tired and confused state at the time was the obvious counterargument, that by spreading the votes so thinly it makes it easy for anyone to lynched (which is what happened). Now, looking back, I've realised that it was also a bad idea because not killing anyone basically makes it a Night 1 kill with more knowledge had by the committee, which is definitely a bad idea.

[Eönwë]

A thought I've just had is that if Mac is a committee member, he may have been trying to set up an early distancing between him and Wilwa by lightly suspecting her and then voting her, yet suggesting a tied vote so that no-one actually died. It would probably be quite a good tactic. If this is the case, then in one sense it backfired horribly, but in another it means that Mac now looks quite innocent by being half responsible for her death.

One thing that definitely does come out of the voting yesterHour, though, is that unless Wilwa agreed to be sacrificed, I highly doubt that Inzil would risk voting her.

[Nogrod]

After a full day at work and then spending my afternoon and evening with students' essays I was finally coming in here with a fear in my mind that I have to read two pages of heated debate and try to take in a host of different theories and reactions (like my head wasn't already overblowing from reading, and valuing & weighing the things I have read today).

Heh. I see I had presumed too much... :rolleyes:

Pull yourself together now! (myself included)


Okay. I'll do some reading and see if there is something constructive to be said. I hope some other people are joining me in that effort. (I'm not sure I can afford to stay awake to the DL as I have an early morning call and the DL is 1AM here - but let's see)

[Nogrod]

I'm also a bit confused about your vote, Inzil. All's well that ends well and everything, but you'd expressed a desire to tie the votes earlier, and then broke the tie, explaining it by saying you trusted Mac. What was that about?I might have been a cross-post, but well 2 minute difference on the thread can range from 1.01 minutes to 2.59 minutes so it is hard to say. (EDIT: Or wait a minute... it is anyway not exact but at least between 1.31-2.29)

How is it Inzil? Was it a cross post or did you wish to get wilwa lynched?

Also another question to you Zil. You were clearly around at the DL between lastnightHour and thisHour, but you didn't feel the need to say anything before thisHour began and someone will/could be dead. It looked more like you waited for thisHour to begin and then posted something.

Can I ask what made you so sure you will not be dead and everything or anything you would have wished to say (as your testament, if one wishes to put it that way) would remain unvoiced forever? I mean sure you had thought about things after your last visit and if you were killed by the wolves (removed by the committee) your words would have been listened to - not as infallible truths but - as a POV of an innocent. You know full well who can be secure not to die during the Nights...


On an other issue that springs to my mind at this moment...

Rikae wished to vote and make a difference but failed to do so. Mac wished to make a tie and managed to get a wolf lynched... Talk about the difference between words and deeds. :D


Okay. Back to reading.

[Inziladun]

I might have been a cross-post, but well 2 minute difference on the thread can range from 1.01 minutes to 2.59 minutes so it is hard to say. (EDIT: Or wait a minute... it is anyway not exact but at least between 1.31-2.29)

How is it Inzil? Was it a cross post or did you wish to get wilwa lynched?

An x-post with who? Mac? If so, the answer is no. I voted for Wilwa after seeing Mac's vote, with the intention of making a vote that counted.

Also another question to you Zil. You were clearly around at the DL between lastnightHour and thisHour, but you didn't feel the need to say anything before thisHour began and someone will/could be dead. It looked more like you waited for thisHour to begin and then posted something.

I haven't posted anything until now? Really? You might want to recheck that.

Can I ask what made you so sure you will not be dead and everything or anything you would have wished to say (as your testament, if one wishes to put it that way) would remain unvoiced forever? I mean sure you had thought about things after your last visit and if you were killed by the wolves (removed by the committee) your words would have been listened to - not as infallible truths but - as a POV of an innocent. You know full well who can be secure not to die during the Nights...

"Testament"? Oh! Well in that case, Wagner's Tannhäuser is my favorite piece of music, MST3K (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mystery_Science_Theater_3000) is a very funny TV show, and oatmeal made with whole milk, cinnamon, and blueberries is a very delicious breakfast!

Really, what were you looking for? :rolleyes:

[Nogrod]

It seems Aganzir is not playing! (look at the disc. thread)

So what we actually have right now is 6 vs. 2

Rikae
Lottie
Shasta
Dun
Greenie
Nog
Mac
Steve

If we get the lynch wrong thisHour and the committee members manage to oust one more the nextHour it will be 4 vs. 2. Thas as such is not the red-light marker, but I don't like the way our numbers dwindle even if we manage to kill the wolves (remember that game where the villagers killed a wolf every Day and still lost?).

But the bigger problem right now I think is the power of two votes together the wolves can produce - especially as we seem to have these more or less non-participating players as well. *coughShastaLottiecough*

Luckily this "if you do not vote in two consecutive Hours, your vote will be cast randomly" -rule might after all save us...

But it would be much better if people voted instead of leaving it to that kind of random.


I see Zil has posted...

[Nogrod]

I haven't posted anything until now? Really? You might want to recheck that.I don't know whether this makes you look better or worse... but you clearly didn't get what I was trying to say (so was that intentional or are you honestly puzzled?).

I didn't say that you haven't posted anything until now. No and no.

What I meant was this.

If you are an innocent you don't know whether you see the dawn of the next Day or not, as you don't know whether the wolves kill you or not (sorry about lapsing back to this more familiar werewolf-language, but I'm trying to make myself clear without ambiguity). The wolves, on the contrary, know they will be alive the next Day as they do the killing (except in some special games with special circumstances).

So if we now had the possibility to speak out before the DL (from Night to Day) and you were around, why were you not concerned whether the DL brings news about your death and thus shuts your mouth for the rest of the game? Wasn't there anything you wished to say as your parting words if they did kill you? We would have listened closely to the words of an proven innocent (even if they're not infallible, they are honest).

Remember, the wolves need not to fear that but they can just sit back and relax and wait for the DL to pass - they possibly didn't even come to think that for the innocents that DL is a question of an uncertain life and death as to them it is no big deal... hmm...

Do you see now what I meant?

[Rikae]

Nog, while that might be true in an ordinary game, it's my understanding that here if Inzil were night killed he would be able to make a statement (to someone)!

There was also a bit of discussion about why nighttime discussion wouldn't be wise. You seem to be reaching a bit here, to be honest.

[Loslote]

Also another question to you Zil. You were clearly around at the DL between lastnightHour and thisHour, but you didn't feel the need to say anything before thisHour began and someone will/could be dead. It looked more like you waited for thisHour to begin and then posted something.

Can I ask what made you so sure you will not be dead and everything or anything you would have wished to say (as your testament, if one wishes to put it that way) would remain unvoiced forever? I mean sure you had thought about things after your last visit and if you were killed by the wolves (removed by the committee) your words would have been listened to - not as infallible truths but - as a POV of an innocent. You know full well who can be secure not to die during the Nights...

Zil and Mac talked about that, didn't they? Something about not wanting to give the committee members a good idea of how the next Day would go, and in doing so giving them room to make a mistake. It made sense at the time, and while I can see why you might not have remembered that particular part of the game and thus not realized that Zil had already explained himself, I'm really not comfortable with you trying to make it into an argument against him. Actually, I'm really not comfortable with you continuously bring up your "point" against Mac, either - you kept saying the same phrase, "bold and beautiful", to describe possible wolf-on-wolvery. Now, once is understandable - everyone gets doubts about possible wolf-on-wolvery - but to bring it up again when you don't have any new evidence to back it up?

EDIT: xed with Nog and Rikae

[Inziladun]

I don't know whether this makes you look better or worse... but you clearly didn't get what I was trying to say (so was that intentional or are you honestly puzzled?).

I didn't see what you were getting at before, no.

So if we now had the possibility to speak out before the DL (from Night to Day) and you were around, why were you not concerned whether the DL brings news about your death and thus shuts your mouth for the rest of the game? Wasn't there anything you wished to say as your parting words if they did kill you? We would have listened closely to the words of an proven innocent (even if they're not infallible, they are honest).

Well, I really had nothing of note to say. Simple as that.

x/d with Rikae and Lottie

[Inziladun]

The latest from Rikae and Lottie aside, I've also had the sense Nog is rather reaching this Hour. There was also, as has been noted, the uncertainty sown by questioning whether the committee knew one another when the game began. I guess I can see an innocent wondering about that, but it would also be an excellent way for a baddie to take away any aura of goodness from Mac and me after we'd killed their fellow.

[Nogrod]

There was also a bit of discussion about why nighttime discussion wouldn't be wise. You seem to be reaching a bit here, to be honest.
Zil and Mac talked about that, didn't they? Something about not wanting to give the committee members a good idea of how the next Day would goYes. But you seem to have forgotten the point of that discussion.

What was the problem of talking too much during hte Night? The fact that the wolves can PM on the base of that as they are allowed to do that during the Night. RIght?

But if you post something at the last minute before the Day begins there is no way they have time to react to that by PM'ing each other.

[Loslote]

Wasn't there anything you wished to say as your parting words if they did kill you? We would have listened closely to the words of an proven innocent (even if they're not infallible, they are honest).

Right. Because at the end of one, very quiet Day, Zil is going to have discovered who all the committee people are through his mad skills of deduction, and would impart this wisdom to us during the Night. Somehow, I have a feeling Zil's not telling us this wisdom has less to do with his not fearing Night-kill and more to do with his not having it yet.

EDIT: xed with Zil and Nog

[Inziladun]

I won't be here at DL, so I'll need to vote in a bit.

Right now I'm thinking Eönwë or Nog.

Steve, because of his vote, and a general feeling of trying to keep out of the spotlight, and Nog for trying to connect dots that are miles apart.

[Loslote]

I won't be here at DL, so I'll need to vote in a bit.

Right now I'm thinking Eönwë or Nog.

Steve, because of his vote, and a general feeling of trying to keep out of the spotlight, and Nog for trying to connect dots that are miles apart.

I would be on board with a Nog lynch. But isn't DL in ten minutes?

[Nogrod]

Why is it that you people turn in ten minutes before the DL?

If you're going to play that way in the future, then please lynch me and get me out from this miserable game where trying turns into suspicion by those who turn in at the last minute.

I mean this is quite pathetic indeed.

[Inziladun]

I would be on board with a Nog lynch. But isn't DL in ten minutes?

Yep. But I have to leave momentarily.

x/d with Nog

[Nogrod]

Haha. I've actually never done this before!

++ Nogrod


EDIT: Good Hours...

EDIT2: forgot highlighting

[Loslote]

Why is it that you people turn in ten minutes before the DL?

If you're going to play that way in the future, then please lynch me and get me out from this miserable game where trying turns into suspicion by those who turn in at the last minute.

I mean this is quite pathetic indeed.

Mondays are bad for me. The DL is 6:00pm, and I have classes all day (and another in a couple of hours, too, which I have to prepare for during my free time). The weekend would have been better, but I forgot I was playing. The next few days should be much better, and I'll have more time to participate.

EDIT: xed with Nog and Zil

[Inziladun]

Here goes.

++Nog

EDIT: Oh come on, really Nog? :rolleyes:

[satansaloser2005]

My cupcakes for a highlight, Nog.

[Loslote]

Haha. I've actually never done this before!

++ Nogrod


EDIT: Good Hours...

...if you're a committee member, nicely bluffed! Either way, I'd have to raise an eyebrow at your reaction to suspicion.

[Loslote]

You know what?

++Nog

Your points against Zil and Mac are stretches at best, and look suspicious to me. Your self-vote screams "overly defensive", and I can't see an innocent reacting like that to suspicion.

[Nogrod]

Lottie: Take a look at the game. It has been the worst ever and I'm pretty happy to get away from it as nothing one says seems to mean nothing, however hard you try to find holes from your schedual to play when no one else basically does... This Day was the epitome.

Good luck then.

[Rikae]

++Nog

[Eönwë]

There's very little to go on, but for the people that are still alive and posting:

Rikae - Herself, as ever, but no inclination either way.
Dun - Well, he essentially killed us a wolf, so I'm going to treat him as innocent for now at least.
Nog - Makes me uncomfortable. Some of his points seem a little bit stretched and assumptive, which are words I'd never think I'd use to describe him in a game. Also, the way he pushed the idea that the wolves might not know each other quite strongly seems bad. I mean, to have that sort of certainty would suggest that either he was a wolf that had information that this was a case, or it wasn't the case but he checked the rules carefully to look for a loophole to exploit for his own ends.
Greenie - I did see Nog's point about her praise of Wilwa's play, though his actual accusatory posts seems pretty bad. She hasn't said enough at all.
Mac - I've never played with him so I have no idea about his style. But the Wilwa connection isn't looking that great.

The submarines (and disappearers):
Lottie - She responded to one comment, but that's it.
Shasta - Said he is around, but hasn't posted anything. Why not?






People I won't vote thisHour: Inzil, Rikae
Most suspicious: Nog
Need to get out of the shadows or we should get rid of them: Shasta, Lottie

edit: x-ed with everything after Rikae's #111

[Nogrod]

My prediction for the posts the next Hour: 3.

Have fun with that. :rolleyes:

[Eönwë]

Well, I was going to go for him anyway

++Nog

[Rikae]

I don't know what's going on, so many posts came so fast, but as far as I can gather Nog's a cobbler, and at any rate I don't want my vote randomized.

[Nogrod]

Bleurgh.... :rolleyes:

Heh. I realised I was a goner immediately when people came in ten minutes before the DL.

Had I been like you others I would be alive.

So part of what I said was not noly bluff but actually true.

[Rikae]

Ok, read this flurry of posts, and I still don't know what's going on. :(

[satansaloser2005]

Nog, pack your bags. You may or may not be leaving momentarily.


I have to get my dice.

[Eönwë]

My prediction for the posts the next Hour: 3.
Yeah, I was having second thoughts about voting you for that very reason. I mean, at least you're posting, which is always important. But then I realised that it was DL, refreshed the thread and saw the inevitable.

[Nogrod]

Sally: there are five vote for me. No need to take the dice... as three votes won't change anything against five.

[Rikae]

Except that Lottie didn't post until I said Nog was reaching, then jumped on it and voted that way.

And now that I have a chance to think about it it looks no better than Nog's behavior did in the first place.

It makes sense that the game might be slow on the first day when some people didn't realize we had started, but yet another day of this - I don't like it either. I wasn't home much of the day myself, but it's not just me - this looks like a second Day 1.

[Eönwë]

Had I been like you others I would be alive.
You're right though. The silence is painful and empty and lets people stay alive unseen. If Shasta's a wolf, I'll be annoyed.

[Rikae]

Even though I agree with Mac and Inzil on Night-posting, I believe I'll stick around and talk just in hopes of having some kind of actual game here.

[Eönwë]

I'm going to retire to my room for a while now, I expect to see that there has at least been some decent discussion by the time I return.

[satansaloser2005]

Sally: there are five vote for me. No need to take the dice... as three votes won't change anything against five.

Never mind. I missed Rikae's vote upon first glance.


No word from Shasta yet, so I'm guessing his internet access is still kaput.

[Nogrod]

As I seem to not be dead yet...The silence is painful and emptyHow about you do something about it? Just a hint.

I mean this was the worst game I have ever played (nothing against you Sally). 140 posts in three playing-days! And many have just one or two posts... Really? A game? Not.


EDIT: Okay Sally has reached the conclusion I suppose? Off then I am. Try to have more fun the next Hours, fex. by playing the game.

[satansaloser2005]

In the Cobbler:
Rikae
Lottie
Shasta
Dun
Greenie
Mac
Steve

Checked out:
Boro (guest, left to attend to canine commitments)
Wilwa (committee member, realized she left the oven on)
McCaber (guest, expelled for hogging the almonds)
Nog (committee member, rescheduled his flight)
Agan (guest, found the night's entertainment to be pretenders)

[Rikae]

Scratch that, this strategy seems to be working.

[Inziladun]

Scratch that, this strategy seems to be working.

I'll say.

Well! I think we got more votes than yesterday, thought that isn't saying much. Greenie and Mac missed voting, the former for the second consecutive Hour, I believe. Shasta too, but at least his absence is explained. Where the blazes is everyone? Tied up in the basement? :eek:

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Hi guys. I don't know if Sally told you, and I don't know if I should be posting this on the admin thread, but we had some extremely bad weather about two days ago, and I only just got internet back recently. I'm still excited to play, but if you guys feel like you need to lynch me because I haven't been here at all yet, I'll totally understand if you want to do that. If not, I'll actually be playing now, although I'm not sure what phase we're in. If this is a Night phase, then I got the impression we shouldn't be talking much?

[Inziladun]

Good to know you made through that patch of rough weather, Shasta!

This is the "Night" phase, but we're allowed to talk. There hasn't been as much activity thus far as one might expect, as a perusal of the thread thus far will reveal. :rolleyes:

There have been some interesting events, though. ;)

[Loslote]

This has been going rather well! I feel like I've even got a good grasp on who's who in this village, something I'm really, really not used to. ;) I'll abide by custom and not say the things of import thisHour, but I can't wait to see what tomHour brings! :D

[Inziladun]

I hate to see that in addition to Agan, Greenie has now bowed out. :(

Well, that leaves the ratio at 6:1 then, with perhaps one of us leaving this Hour. Still pretty good odds.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Oh, I hadn't really looked around too much yet. I was thinking there were an awful lot of people already gone for how early into the game it is. :(

[satansaloser2005]

I'm calling the Day early because I'm going to see a movie with a friend.

Inziladun, a regular guest, has left the Cobbler.

Greenie has departed as well. She too was a regular guest.

Please enjoy the remainder of this evening's entertainment.

[Eönwë]

Well, I suppose we should have expected this. I mean, he did look the most innocent after finalising the lynch of a known committee member. AND he was our most vocal player, which is very bad because now our game is mostly made up of submarines.

Ok. There are only 5 of us left (interestingly, 1 of each role). At worst, we could lose the game if we choose incorrectly thisHour (If we pick the sore loser, i.e. hunter, and they pick anyone but the committee member). So it's time to get serious, and get out of the shadows. What shall we do?

[Rikae]

No one else is taking this game seriously, so I don't see why I should.

Go ahead and lynch me if you like.

[Rikae]

I mean, I should have something useful to say this hour, but I don't, because our moddess doesn't apparently think it's necessary, and my hour two dream decided to quit.

Oh yeah, and Nogrod pm'd me when he left, apparently trying to get me worried about Mac and complaining about how people didn't notice his clever hints. Seems his post before dawn was supposed to illustrate his uncertainty that he would survive, and his odd remarks about Inzil were supposed to point toward it.

Lottie was my dream last hour, and I don't know anything because our moddess is busy. Nog's comment about Mac could easily be a double bluff but I suspect Mac is innocent and it just amused Nog to mention him in particular, and Shasta's confusion when he joined us looks innocent as well: Steve or Lottie, then.

You know, if I was the remaining committee member this would be brilliant - wish I was.

[Rikae]

Ok, I've got info now.

Lottie is not a committee member.

[Rikae]

So:

Mac
Shasta
Steve

If you choose to believe me, we give one the boot now, and (unless that one should out of sheer cussedness decide to be the ranger, or I have through some bizarre circumstance been protected twice already), I can dream again next hour and find the final dirty rotten party pooper in our midst.

Or else I'm evil, in which case, real seer, step forward...

[Loslote]

Oh yeah, and Nogrod pm'd me when he left, apparently trying to get me worried about Mac and complaining about how people didn't notice his clever hints. Seems his post before dawn was supposed to illustrate his uncertainty that he would survive, and his odd remarks about Inzil were supposed to point toward it.

I would agree that this makes Mac look more innocent. Yes, Nog must have known that his role would be revealed upon his death, but that looks like too obvious a double-bluff. I doubt Nog would have gone for something as...unsubtle as that.

In which case, Steve is the only person I'd really consider lynching today - Shasta could be a committee member, but since we haven't seen anything from him yet whereas we've seen several suspicious things from Steve (the vote for me Day 1 and his suspicion of Nog, which amount to "oh, well, yes, he is suspicious, funny you pointed that out...but I was going to go for him all along"). Plus, I would like to give Shasta at least one Day to play.

[Macalaure]

When I saw that Nogrod was lynched my first thought was "No! Why?", then I saw he was indeed a wolf, and then I read through the thread and saw what an amazing hole he dug for himself.

Killing Inzil was the best choice I suppose. He looked innocent, was vocal, and made sense. I don't think they thought he looked seer-ish.

Sad thing is that Nogrod absorbed all attention yesterHour, and focused on Inzil (and lesser: me), so I don't think there's anything pointing towards the last wolf.

A thought I've just had is that if Mac is a committee member, he may have been trying to set up an early distancing between him and Wilwa by lightly suspecting her and then voting her, yet suggesting a tied vote so that no-one actually died. It would probably be quite a good tactic. If this is the case, then in one sense it backfired horribly, but in another it means that Mac now looks quite innocent by being half responsible for her death.
I don't like this too much. Wolfgrod already mentioned something similar before and I addressed it. Apart from missing that, the wording in the end doesn't sit right with me.

He brings it back with:
But the Wilwa connection isn't looking that great.
Wilwa-connection? He started out by an assumption (if I'm a wolf), then he starts treating it like a fact.

While Eonwe lists Nogrod as most suspicious, he still seems most reluctant out of everybody to actually go after him.


I don't see a reason to doubt Rikae's claim at the moment, which means:
Rikae: seer
Lottie: not-wolf
Mac: not-wolf (hoping you believe me there)
Shasta or Eonwe: wolf
Also, two out of Lottie, Shasta, and Eonwe are gifted.
If Shasta or Eonwe is the hunter, he should pick the other one to kill.
If one of them is the ranger and we lynch him, then... that would not be so good.

Barring any more reveals, I'm leaning towards voting Eonwe right now. Of course, we barely heard anything from Shasta so far.

[Macalaure]

PS: sorry about missing the vote last night, by the way. I thought I had time but ended up being busier around the deadline than I thought I would.

[Eönwë]

Ok, I'm back. I might not be totally coherent because of mock exams and tiredness, but these are my current thoughts.

For now, I'm accepting Rikae's reveal. I mean, I was getting non-ordo vibes from her from the start, and now at least that's certain (though the same goes for all of you). Yes, I am the sole innocent left here. You can disbelieve me if you want- I mean, I'd rather you killed me than any of the three gifteds. And now we're in a position where the hunter's life is arguably just as, if not more valuable than that of our seer, which is quite strange. And if she's not the real seer, then the real seer should definitely reveal now.

If you choose to believe me, we give one the boot now, and (unless that one should out of sheer cussedness decide to be the ranger, or I have through some bizarre circumstance been protected twice already), I can dream again next hour and find the final dirty rotten party pooper in our midst.Hopefully, if we don't hit the hunter in the Day. Though on the other hand, if we cause a tie and have no lynches, while we definitely get another Day, we also know the identity of one less person, meaning that either you get lucky and find the committee member, or we have to choose between two.

edit: x-ed with Mac's first.

[Eönwë]

In which case, Steve is the only person I'd really consider lynching today - Shasta could be a committee member, but since we haven't seen anything from him yet whereas we've seen several suspicious things from Steve (the vote for me Day 1 and his suspicion of Nog, which amount to "oh, well, yes, he is suspicious, funny you pointed that out...but I was going to go for him all along"). Plus, I would like to give Shasta at least one Day to play.

Pretty funny that you'd say that when that's exactly what you did. I'd actually already said that I found him most suspicious before any of the votes.

[Eönwë]

Ok, thinking about it, it seems unlikely that Lottie is evil.

Option 1- Seer-Rikae and non-wolf-Lottie:
Well, that's exactly what it they're saying on the thread.

Option 2- Seer-Rikae and Wolf-Lottie
Wouldn't happen. Much too risky.

Option 3- Wolf-Rikae and non-wolf-Lottie
Could happen

Option 4- Fake-revealing gifted Rikae:
Unlikely because of the high chance of guessing wrong, and if that is the case, not only negating the purpose of a fake-revealing innocent, but also narrowing down possible seer candidates.

So unless Rikae is a fake-revealing gifted, Lottie is not a wolf.

[Eönwë]

Anyway, it's later here than I was expecting- I hope you all judge well while I'm gone.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Well, it seems to have been a while since the last post, and since there's no real reason to disbelieve Rikae, I guess that means I just have to look at Mac and Eonwe. Easy enough.

[Rikae]

Well, I really would like to hear a bit more from Shasta, Mac and Steve (gone for the hour?) - don't any of you have anything to say that might influence our decision?
I know I've made it sound as though we had already won, but according to my calculations the wrong choice now will mean that two hours from now Lottie will have a 50% chance of voting wrongly losing the game. As interesting as such an hour might be, I'd rather vote as well as possible now, which means I'd rather hear more from the three gentlemen mentioned above...

[Eönwë]

Firstly, since everyone's posted and no-one's refuted her claim, I'm willing to believe that Rikae is actually our seer, since at this point in the game it would be foolish not to counter-reveal.
I know I've made it sound as though we had already won, but according to my calculations the wrong choice now will mean that two hours from now Lottie will have a 50% chance of voting wrongly losing the game. So now you're giving away her role? That's just added a whole new level of complication (more clarity, but it's changed the game).

I'll let my subconscious mull over it while I look at Mac.

[Rikae]

Nope, I was wrong, there's another possible outcome.

Still, if we lynch a gifted today we've squandered our advantage,

Yes, I am the sole innocent left here.

Is that your final answer?

[Eönwë]

Ok, I had to go, but I'm back and have almost finished a Mac-post.
Is that your final answer?
Yes. If you think it's less risky to kill me, go ahead. At least then you'll have all the gifteds.

[Eönwë]

On which, note, I'd like to point out that Mac tried to inadvertently claim that role too (see here (http://www.forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=669314&postcount=159)), which is one reason that I really suspect him (more on this in my next post).

[Eönwë]

Since Shasta's posted so little, there's absolutely no way to tell whether or not he's a wolf. I'll ignore my meta-reasoning sense, which would suggest that he wouldn't accept such a hollow victory anway, and instead focus on Mac, which at least can be done (though his post count isn't very, at least he's said something).

Good stuff

This post seems pretty reasonable:
It seems like people think of the messages mostly as a means to convey something to somebody else. Don't forget that your message prompts somebody to write a message back. If you send something to somebody you're not sure about, that's a good way to learn (even if they don't reply).

I don't think the information offered in a message is worth much. A reveal might be fake, and any opinions given are probably already available in the thread anyway, or have to be taken with a bucketful of salt. Like Greenie mentioned, as a wolf, I would be nervous to write a message: the risk of giving something away (even if it's just a bad vibe) is not necessarily worth the opportunity to sow some deceit.

And this:I know it's not in the intended spirit of this game, but I would advise against too much analysis etc. during the night phase. It really only helps the wolves to sort out their own kill if they know who the inn thinks is innocent and who not. Usually they have some guesswork to do regarding the village's upcoming reaction to the lynch, which complicates their kill decision.

Of course, they're both points that aren't completely radical, so there is a large probability that someone else would come up with them, yet he definitely posts them firsts. Either this is proof of his innocence or he's going for the "I'll bring up useful points so they trust me." Still, some parts seem a bit too good to be intended evilly, but I suppose that it just depends on how sneaky a Macwolf is.


Other stuff

Nog: I can't find a reason to suspect him, which makes me suspicious. :p
Wilwa - re-reading her posts, I think the vibe I'm getting is that of someone who's a wolf and tries rather hard to find something to talk about, so that she won't be suspected for not contributing. (Not exactly the best reason, is it?)
He's basically saying that there's no good reason to suspect either of the two known wolves, yet still says he suspects them. I don't know whether that's too obvious, but that whole suspecting-yet-defending attitude seems pretty wolvish to me.

If Wilwa is innocent then clearly Mac and Inzil conspired to save their packmate Greenie.
Something about this joking comment doesn't sit right with me. It's almost as if he's specifically trying to show us that he doesn't know. Or, it could just be completely innocent. The second "not rusty" comment just furthers that.

I'm suspecting Inzil quite a bit right now. His vote looks incredibly fishy to me. :smokin:
Could go either way.

My first impression of the McCaber-kill was that it made sense. Inzil and I look most innocent after the voting yesterHour(???) and were thus likely ranger picks. Unless they thought I was the seer (obviously not the case), it was not worth going after either of us. McCaber looked pretty innocent (I thought), so he was a good no-trace kill, since the only solid thing he leaves is some early strategy discussion and him thinking Inzil and me are innocent. He did also say that he liked Greenie least among the one-posters. I'm trying hard not to look at this one biasedly, but I couldn't help thinking of him feeding us his Night-conversation.


Analyzing the voting, I noticed that Nog was in fact only the third person to mention Greenie negatively (Rikae and McCaber did so before). If he's a wolf who knew that Wilwa might be in moderate trouble, picking up on the mild suspicions of others, elaborating on them, and placing a preventative vote, would make sense to protect his fellow. Much more innocent-looking than waiting for a Wilwa-vote and then trying to put up a competing bandwaggon on the fly.

I do like Nog's point against me. It's wrong, but I still like it. If I was a wolf and Wilwa innocent, that's definitely something I could see myself doing. However, I would have been more strongly about telling people to make the tie possible (while hoping and being optimistic that it would fail). Doing wolf-on-wolf in such a situation is an entirely needless risk, though. So first he suggests that Nog is evil, and then says something good about him? This seems to be a pattern throughout all his posts on Nog.

When I saw that Nogrod was lynched my first thought was "No! Why?" If he is a wolf, this is pretty funny.
Killing Inzil was the best choice I suppose. He looked innocent, was vocal, and made sense. I don't think they thought he looked seer-ish. Another kill-justification. Pretty neutral, considering that that I saw him as an innocent as well.

Sad thing is that Nogrod absorbed all attention yesterHour, and focused on Inzil (and lesser: me), so I don't think there's anything pointing towards the last wolf.
Very sneaky wording here. Again, suggesting his lack of wolfedness, as well as making it seem like Nog wouldn't try to pick out his fellow wolf, which is definitely something he'd do to mess with our minds.

Wilwa-connection? He started out by an assumption (if I'm a wolf), then he starts treating it like a fact.
The fact that you were the first to vote for her connects you. I don't see the problem here.

While Eonwe lists Nogrod as most suspicious, he still seems most reluctant out of everybody to actually go after him.Well that's completely not true. I said he was the one I was most likely to vote for and I did. I was just happy that a Nog-lynch had started while I was trying to articulate my suspicion of him.


Ok, now this thing.
I don't see a reason to doubt Rikae's claim at the moment, which means:
Rikae: seer
Lottie: not-wolf
Mac: not-wolf (hoping you believe me there)
Shasta or Eonwe: wolf
Also, two out of Lottie, Shasta, and Eonwe are gifted.
If Shasta or Eonwe is the hunter, he should pick the other one to kill.
If one of them is the ranger and we lynch him, then... that would not be so good.

Barring any more reveals, I'm leaning towards voting Eonwe right now. Of course, we barely heard anything from Shasta so far.
Ok, so here, while he first just says "not-wolf", later he goes on to say that the other two gifted roles (not the seer- he believes Rikae) are among the rest of us. Which basically means that he's saying he's the innocent.

Now, I can't see any reason why at this point in the game, the Ranger would claim to be an ordinary innocent. We only have one Night left, and this means that the only choice the Ranger has is to protect the Seer. I mean, there will be no Day after toMorrow, so there is no need to worry. And so, since it's obvious that the Ranger will be protecting Rikae (which is basically our only chance to have a definite win toMorrow), there is no need for the Ranger to hide, since their power is then basically useless, as the wolf will almost certainly attack someone other than Rikae. And so, if the Ranger wouldn't hide, and I know that I am the innocent in the game, I'm forced to conclude that Mac is a wolf.

[Rikae]

Now, I can't see any reason why at this point in the game, the Ranger would claim to be an ordinary innocent.

Me neither.

[Macalaure]

I had a lengthy defense post written, but then I came to Eonwe's last points and realized something.

First:
Now, I can't see any reason why at this point in the game, the Ranger would claim to be an ordinary innocent.
A ranger save can give us two more nights:
5 players +lynch +safe=4 players next hour.
4 players +lynch +safe=3 players last hour.
Not likely, but could happen. If the ranger declares prematurely he's toast unless he gambles.
Add to this the more crucial fact that we might have a tie and therefore no lynch!

Second, all that ranger stuff makes me feel a lot better about Eonwe for a reason I don't want to tell yet. Which leads me to:

Why don't all gifteds just reveal? Since every role is left exactly one time, we will have exactly one revealed role twice (the real one and the falsely revealed wolf). With two guaranteed lynches left, we've got it. If we pool our votes well, no randomness or wolf vote can cause a tie.

[Eönwë]

Why don't all gifteds just reveal?
Ok, go on then. What are you?

[Rikae]

Since every role is left exactly one time, we will have exactly one revealed role twice (the real one and the falsely revealed wolf). With two guaranteed lynches left, we've got it. If we pool our votes well, no randomness or wolf vote can cause a tie.

We already do (you and Steve as ordos). Discuss? :p

[Macalaure]

Do you just know whether Lottie is innocent or not, or do you have her role?

[Rikae]

Don't trust me?

[Eönwë]

16 minutes to DL, and only 3/5 people are here. Seriously?

[Rikae]

We don't need two days - that is, if we don't lynch a gifted now.

Should I vote for you, Mac?

[Macalaure]

I don't think Rikae is bluffing, even though I know she likes to reveal falsely. She wouldn't have come up with the late dream initially if she wasn't the real seer.

Eonwe claims to be an ordo, and since Rikae doesn't say it isn't so, Lottie is not an ordo, but gifted.

Since I'm the ranger, Lottie must be the hunter, and Shasta and Eonwe are an ordo/wolf combo, one way or the other.


++Shasta

since Eonwe is actually around.

[Macalaure]

I don't like revealing. :(

[Macalaure]

First Night: Inzil.
Second Night: missed :o.

[Rikae]

++Eönwë

Safest bet.

[Eönwë]

Rikae, what do you think?

edit: WHAT? REALLY?

[Rikae]

You claim not to be gifted, so you're the safest vote, Eönwë - sorry.

[Eönwë]

Ok, well since I know it's not me,

++Shasta

[Rikae]

Mac could well be a wolf (and I don't really care for the fact that he votes for Shasta now...) but if he is I'll know toHour.

[Eönwë]

Now, if this is wrong, as long as the Hunter picks Mac, we'll be fine.

[Macalaure]

Did Shasta and Lottie vote last hour, or will they be random?

[Eönwë]

Shasta has not voted at all. I know that.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Well, I happen to know that it's not me, either.

++Eonwe

[Rikae]

If Eönwë was actually an ordo he should have voted for himself, as he knows it would guarantee a village win.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Also, this DL is incredibly awkward. Wednesday is my busiest day.

[Eönwë]

If Eönwë was actually an ordo he should have voted for himself, as he knows it would guarantee a village win.
You know what? You're right. I was swayed by Mac, and, you know, my drive to stay alive, but you're completely right. I apologise, village.

[Rikae]

And once again it comes down to someone not taking the game seriously, Lottie.

/facepalm

[Eönwë]

But guarantee is a strong word. If the hunter picks wrong and the wolf attacks the hunter, there will be no victory.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I kind of feel like I just shouldn't have voted - I'd have died and the wolf would have been gone toMorrow. But I haven't done anything at all this game yet, so I kind of felt like I should do something. I hope you guys know I'm not just not participating because I don't feel like it. I really am quite busy, and the weather really was that bad. :(

[Eönwë]

I kind of feel like I just shouldn't have voted - I'd have died and the wolf would have been gone toMorrow. But I haven't done anything at all this game yet, so I kind of felt like I should do something. I hope you guys know I'm not just not participating because I don't feel like it. I really am quite busy, and the weather really was that bad. :(

So then my suspicions are right. It was Mac. I can't believe I got sucked into that.

[Macalaure]

Tie. :rolleyes:

If Rikae dreams of me we will be no smarter tomorrhour. Everybody has made a role claim (or can be deduced) except Shasta. His actual role is therefore most crucial and should be investigated.

[Eönwë]

Unless Rikae is the most cunning one of all.

[Eönwë]

Well, yes, the result of this lynch will reveal a lot. That much is true.

If I die toDay, then all I can do is wish good luck to the Ranger.

And then I imagine that toMorrow will be like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s0UURBihH8) (I hope you're reading this Boro), or maybe a more serious version like this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PM7bvs1yGDo) (couldn't find the normal version, but this is pretty similar).

[Rikae]

Lottie's vote will be a role of the dice, so there's a chance there's a lynch.

Eönwë, what's this?

So then my suspicions are right. It was Mac. I can't believe I got sucked into that.Shasta basically just claimed to be an ordo. You can't both be.

[Eönwë]

Shasta basically just claimed to be an ordo. You can't both be.
I thought it was Ranger-guilt.

Say something quickly, Shasta, before one of us dies.

[Eönwë]

Even worse, Lottie hasn't even been around to back up your claim about her being the hunter.

Though on the other hand, the real seer should have counter-revealed by now if it isn't actually you.

[Rikae]

Lottie isn't the hunter.

[Eönwë]

Lottie isn't the hunter.
So then why didn't you go for Mac?

[Rikae]

Why do you suppose?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I thought it was Ranger-guilt.

Say something quickly, Shasta, before one of us dies.

I'm having a hard time with these rules. I understand we can talk during Night phases, but talking after DL with someone who might already be dead? Isn't that cutting it a little close? :confused:

[Macalaure]

May we know what Lottie is, then?

If she is the hunter, then hiding it hoping the wolf will go for the known innocent won't work anymore now. Not to mention that Lottie might not pick anyone at all.

[Eönwë]

Are you revealing as a wolf then?

[Eönwë]

If you're the seer, and you dreamed Lottie as a Ranger, then you'd have killed Mac because you knew he was lying.

[Eönwë]

I'm having a hard time with these rules. I understand we can talk during Night phases, but talking after DL with someone who might already be dead? Isn't that cutting it a little close? :confused:

Maybe, but since people can talk in the Night phase, and we haven't gained any more knowledge, and the general premise of the game is that we're in the Inn until we get kicked out, I don't think it's wrong.

[Rikae]

Are you 100% sure I didn't dream Lottie as an ordo?

[Macalaure]

But if you dreamed of Lottie as an ordo, why is Eonwe not a steaming pile of hacked up meat at this point? :confused:

[satansaloser2005]

I am terribly sorry, everyone. My phone died about an hour ago and I only got it plugged in a few minutes ago.


The die rolled for neither Shasta nor Steve. Everyone remains at the Cobbler.


In the Cobbler:
Rikae
Lottie
Shasta
Mac
Steve


I'll get back to my computer later on. Thank you so much for your patience.

[Eönwë]

Are you 100% sure I didn't dream Lottie as an ordo?

Yes. Because I am an Ordo, and Sally said that there would be all the gifteds in this game, and none have died yet. And there's still one more wolf. Unless there's something that Sally's not telling us...

[Eönwë]

Well, on the one hand that's positive because it means we definitely get another Day, but on the other it's very bad, because we don't know anything new, and now there's no way of knowing everyone's role by toMorrow.

[Rikae]

Actually, Eönwë, you came out as "ordo" before I mentioned my fears concerning lynching the ranger, I believe, which argues in your favor because you had no way of knowing it was a safe role to claim.

Mac and Shasta implied they were ordos also, but later. Shasta, are you claiming ordo now? There is no benefit to hiding as the ranger at this point. It will be much simpler if we know what role is being claimed twice... Lottie should hunt one of those two, and it doesn't even matter that much which (what matters is that the real ranger has indeed stepped forward as such, so I can dream and see who is ordo and who is wolf).

Unfortunately I don't think Lottie is around.

[Rikae]

Or dream and see who is ranger or wolf as the case may be.

Yeah, it really doesn't matter which of the two Lottie hunts if one of Shasta and Eönwë is an ordo and the other a wolf: Mac and I could lynch the remaining wolf tommHour. So I'm not worried unless Lottie's not paying attention or Shasta is the ranger.

[Rikae]

(Just wanted to see your reaction to "not the hunter")

[Eönwë]

But now by doing this you're giving a possibly-wolvish Shasta a chance to choose to go against the Ranger or an Ordo. Why would you do that?

[Eönwë]

What I mean is that you should have chosen to let him reveal as what he wanted to, and then judged him. And does that mean you believe Mac's claim?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Well, honestly, I was hoping to hide a little while longer - as long as it wasn't clear whether or not you were hiding Lottie's identity as the Ranger, the wolf might have guessed incorrectly with their kill tonight.

Hopefully that should clear things up. Now all you have to do is dream of Mac or I.

[Rikae]

If Shasta is a wolf...ish committe member, then you aren't, and it doesn't matter which he goes against, since tommHour is the last hour.

I believe Mac is not an ordo, and I believe you're not the ranger.

EDIT: Crossed with Shasta.

[Eönwë]

Happy now, Rikae?

edit: x-ed with Rikae herself.

[Rikae]

Ok, going on the assumption that at this point no innocent has reason to lie about xer role:

Lottie, please hunt one of Shasta or Mac!


This way, tomorrow we'll have either:

Lottie
Mac - ranger or wolf
Shasta - ranger or wolf
Me - seer knowing the difference

or

Lottie
Steve
Shastawolf
Me

or

Stevewolf or Shastawolf
Mac
Me

And we'll win.

[Rikae]

Oops, that last one was wrong of course, should be:

Shastawolf or Macwolf
Steve
Me

[Rikae]

In other words, wolfy, kill Lottie and die or reveal the other "ranger" as genuine, kill the other "ranger" and reveal him as genuine, kill Steve and I'll find you anyway, kill me and fail (and I'll find you anyway).

[Eönwë]

Oops, that last one was wrong of course, should be:

Shastawolf or Macwolf
Steve
Me

I was going to ask about that one.


I just wanted to say, for the record, that I'm suspecting Mac over Shasta (as I have since his first post toDay).


Also, I'm glad there was actually some sort of discussion toDay, rather than the complete silence that characterised the others. Time for me to sleep now.

[Loslote]

Sorry, guys. I really shouldn't have signed up for this game. I thought I'd have time, but...:o I probably just shouldn't play until after this semester is over, really. I'll try to be more active (or, really, present at all) toMorrow.

Anyway, I shan't reveal who I'm hunting. Let the wolfly committee member have more to fret over and all that.

[satansaloser2005]

As activities at the Cobbler wind down for the evening, the few remaining guests one by one retire to their rooms. The night passes uneventfully, and, come sunrise, Rikae and Mac, Shasta, Steve, and Lottie each wake up in their respective rooms, get dressed, and come downstairs to the main hall.


It is now morning.




In the Cobbler:
Lottie
Rikae
Shasta
Steve
Mac


Checked out:
Everyone else

[Macalaure]

Uneventful in the sense of ranger save or in the sense of no kill sent in?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Uneventful in the sense of ranger save or in the sense of no kill sent in?

I don't think she's going to say...

[Macalaure]

I don't think she's going to say...

*sad face* :(

[satansaloser2005]

*sad face* :(

Oh, believe me, you'll know soon enough....

[Rikae]

Shasta, I am told, does not have our best interests as Tolkienites at heart.

[Rikae]

++Shasta

[Loslote]

++Shasta

[Macalaure]

If we're on the wrong track, and Rikae is indeed a marvelously bluffing fake seer (and the real seer? Don't ask me.), we will have one more day guaranteed and are therefore on the safe side with this:

++Shasta

[satansaloser2005]

What makes you think there are only three people on the committee? :Merisu:

[Rikae]

Seriously? Now that I look, I can't find the number specified anywhere - but mentioned by evil Wilwa on day one.

Man, we've all been complete idiots if this is true.

I didn't have a good feeling about Steve. He can, however, still be either hunter-killed or lynched.

[Macalaure]

If there are two wolves left, then I know the other one is Eonwe. Unfortunately, I'm not proven innocent.

Breakdown of our situation:

5 villagers now, we will lynch Shasta, so tonight we're 4.

One kill, makes 3 in the morning, so one more day. (Unless they kill Lottie and she makes the wrong choice between me and Eonwe. Maybe we shouldn't have a hunter pick this night, so we don't risk anything?)

Rikae will dream of either me or Eonwe, so that will get sorted out as long as Rikae survives. Since I haven't protected anyone twice yet, she will survive.

[Rikae]

I don't doubt you're the ranger, Mac, and I don't see why Lottie should either.

Steve came out and said he was the last innocent early yesterHour, emphasizing the point made by Wilwawolf (and by Nogwolf in his private message to me) that there were only three. He went so far as to explain why the ranger should reveal, nor did he have any problem with both Mac and Shasta revealing. How can he reveal as a ranger now?

[Macalaure]

Yeah, the evidence is not with him. :D

Just didn't want to word it too confidently, since you don't have proof of my innocence yet.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I feel like I should post. However, I don't have anything to say. So here's a puppy.





Just kidding. You guys have thrown a revealed seer at me three games in a row. You don't get a puppy.




I don't want to play werewolf anymore. Bye.

[Eönwë]

Sorry, I was unable to get here earlier, so I'll just make my vote.

++Shasta


And unless there's something I've not been told, I am an innocent.

[Loslote]

I'm not convinced that there's actually four wolves - it seems like the sort of thing Sally-cake would try to hint at to make her villagers run about in circles for her own amusement - but I'll hunt Steve toNight if the game doesn't end with Shasta's death.

[satansaloser2005]

Ganged up on by everyone else, Shasta gets frustrated and walks out of the Cobbler. As soon as his phone has signal, he sends the following message.

Good luck dealing with them. Hope you have a not entirely awful time.



In the Cobbler:
Lottie
Steve
Mac
Rikae


Checked out:
Boro (guest, went to take care of his puppy)
Wilwa (committee member, realized she left the oven on)
McCaber (guest, hated on for hogging all the peanuts)
Nog (committee member, rescheduled his flight)
Agan (guest, found the night's entertainment to be pretenders)
Greenie (guest, realized Nog was -literally- her ticket home)
Dun (guest, walked off to talk to himself)
Shasta (committee member, stormed out despite the storms)

[Eönwë]

Wait, so it's not actually finished? What?

The only possibility that I can imagine is that it means that there's a cursed that got converted last Night.

[Loslote]

Wait, so it's not actually finished? What?

The only possibility that I can imagine is that it means that there's a cursed that got converted last Night.

But...you're the only person who doesn't already have a Gifted role. You'd be the only person who could've been Cursed. Either way, we should still kill you.