Do we live in Middle-earth?

[Ahanarion]

Do we live in Middle-earth? Is it in an alternate universe? Is it imaginary? I beleive it to be real after all history became legend, legend became myth and things that should not have been forgotten were.

[Gorothlammothiel]

Oooohh......glad someone asked this. I did a talk (persuasive Speech) in English the other day about the existance of paralell universes and inparticular ME.......

.......PU exist. It's scientifically proven! (will explain if an explaination is needed)..we can travel between these PU's through "stargates" (not quite like the show) or in your dreams.....

....ME DOES EXIST AND WE ALL EXIST IN IT....

(just in case any of you wanted to know, after my speech i was branded a crazed X-files lunatic smilies/frown.gif)

[ April 11, 2002: Message edited by: Gorothlammothiel ]

[ April 11, 2002: Message edited by: Gorothlammothiel ]

[dragongirlG]

Do we live in Middle Earth?...

Perhaps. I think that Tolkien based Middle Earth off the world that was before technology, electricity, colonization, etc...the Earth that had once been. So maybe we do live in Middle Earth, it's just that we don't know it. After all, like Ahnarion said, "History became legend, legend became myth, and things that should not have been forgotten were." So it's quite possible!

[Ancalime]

I know I've heard that Tolkien based Middle-Earth on a prehistoric Europe. But does it really matter? As we read the books, it is real in our minds so its supposed location (place or time) in 'reality' isn't really important.

Slightly off topic, I would greatly enjoy an explanation about the scientific proof that parallel universes exist. It sounds like an interesting topic. smilies/biggrin.gif (I promise I won't think you're a crazed X-Files lunatic! smilies/wink.gif )

[Voronwe]

Since when has the theory of Parrallel Universes been scientifically proven?

By the way, Tolkien did state that Middle Earth was our world, but at an imaginary time in the past.

[Thinhyandoiel]

By the way, Tolkien did state that Middle Earth was our world, but at an imaginary time in the past. '

This is true. And it even says so in the Silmarillion (which I lent out, otherwise I'd find the quote for you). It said somewhere that the lands had changed, rivers moved, mountains flattened and rose since the passing of these events (or something to that effect). Can someone help me with that quote? Or is it from LOTR? Am I getting my books mixed up!? smilies/eek.gif smilies/eek.gif Not good...

[QuickSlash]

I would also like an explanation on parallel universes. ^_^ (Although I doubt any of you want my opinion on whether or not we're in ME ~_^ )

[Niere-Teleliniel]

I agree with Thinhyandoiel & Voronwe . I think ME did exist on our earth, but the geography just really changed. Gimme some time to finish the Silm. and I'll have a more solid answer smilies/smile.gif

[Arwen Imladris]

I personally do not think that ME really exists, at least not in the what Tolkien wrote about. Tolkien, I'm pretty sure made it up out of his won head. He is very convincing, but he wrote it all, long after Middle earth existed. If he knew about it from some parallel universe, wouldn't he have had said something about that?

I think that Parallel universes could exist. I would like to hear your explaination too
Gorothlammothiel smilies/smile.gif

[Jessica Jade]

Ah, delicious ambiguity. One of the things i love most about Tolkien! He makes you think...DID this world exist? The truth is...you'll never really know four sure...maybe it did once, before the lands were broken and changed, before dinosaurs, before even prehistory as we know it. We'd never know...of course, the reasonable explanation is, of course it wasn't physically real, because Tolkien created it all. But nonethe less, it perpetually makes you wonder, WHAT IF? It'll always be a wonderful prospect to entertain. smilies/smile.gif

[Narya]

If we want to find out, if ME really and 'pysically' existed where our world is today, we should think about how much we can surley get know about the past of our world by hystorical writing and archiology and so on. (I think we can be quite sure about what has happen in the last 2000-3000 years, but I´m not a hystorically expert, so anyone might disagree...)

I don´t really believe the stories in ME are taking place at the earth, but the Red Book could be real and the basic for the story; so I think it could exist and Tolkien could have made a story out of it.
Things and powers like magic and persons like the Valar and the other thing that not 'fit' in our world today, are discribed for example in Greek myths.
But I don´t think Tolkien created MiddleEarth because he had hystorically proofs that this world existed in the past of our earth.

If you wonder if the stories are just in our minds or in some other way real, I would agree that they are... everything we can imagine can be real too.

[Niphredil Baggins]

Here (http://www.alt-tolkien.com)
is a page based on the question: what if it all really happened?

[pippin_took0]

I think there's GOT to be a ME somewhere... heaven for example... Or at least that's where I'm going when I die.

[Orodhromeus]

Of course ME isn't real! And the events depicted are no more real than those in every mythology (greek, egyptian, etc). Tolkien wanted it to be as realistic as possible, thus the creation of the Red Book, which was supposedly translated by the Professor. That would make Tolkien a simple mediator between the forgotten history he would have 'discovered' and today a technique already used in litterature during the Renaissance (Voltaire, I think). Many authors do anything to present their fiction as a depiction of real events, notably Michael Crichton. Speaking of him, you can read his novel 'Timeline' to get a theory on the existance of parallel universes.

[The Half-Hobbit]

Discover magazine has had several articles on the likelihood of parallel universes. Hop over to their website and I'm sure oyu could find one...or on second thought, I'll go get one...brb!

[ April 12, 2002: Message edited by: The Half-Hobbit ]

[The Half-Hobbit]

found one!

Linde is best known for his evangelical advocacy of a concept called inflation, which holds that in its very early infancy the universe underwent a brief but stupendous growth spurt before settling down to its current more leisurely rate of expansion. In part because of his contributions, inflation has become a widely accepted model in contemporary cosmology. But no one takes the concept as far as Linde does. He contends that the same basic mechanism spawned not only the observable universe--the galaxy-emblazoned realm we ponder through our telescopes--but also countless other universes being branched off from our own, universes that we’ll never see. He even speculates that our cosmos might have been deliberately created by beings in another one.
--From an article called (appropriately) The Universal Wizard. From the March '92 issue of Discover

[ April 12, 2002: Message edited by: The Half-Hobbit ]

[merman]

New to this board, I was drawn here after Niphredil Baggins posted a link to my site http://alt-tolkien.com saying "here is a page based on the question: what if it all really happened?"

Well, thanks first to Niphredil, and yes I would say that is a good summary in a few words of what we are about at Middle-earth Reunion, "the alternative tolkien society".

Certainly it is my personal "quest" to explore that question, "What if JRRT just was telling the truth when he said he was translating, rather than 'making it all up'?"

That's it for now -- as I say I am new here so maybe I'll just "lurk" a bit and find my feet, but I wanted to say thanks and add my tuppence to the conversation!

[Starbreeze]

Welcome Martin! Enjoy being dead! But becareful, the Barrow Wight frowns upon people who advertise their sites in their posts, he prefers it if you put all advertisements in your signiture. Just a tip to aid your survival here, Stay log and post lots!

[Gorothlammothiel]

Humm......here is part of my speech from school.....will find once more the scientific evidence and post it when it's found smilies/smile.gif

Here you go for now.......

(sorry it's so long)

If you can believe that there are different layers to the Earth, could you also believe there are different layers to the universe? Could another universe co-exist with our own? Do we depend on them or them on us? The answer to these questions is yes.

If you imagine our universe reflected in a mirror, the reflection would show another universe alongside our own. This can be used to explain how a parallel universe can exist. Another universe could exist with ours but this one would have more dimensions than our own.

Our own universe has three spatial dimensions; up/down, left/right and back/forth. These dimensions are ones you use in everyday life just from moving around. A fourth dimension also exists, time, for the future/past theory.
Consider this dimension theory to be a jigsaw puzzle where every dimension has an if and this if adds a piece to the jigsaw. What if I’d chosen this option? What would have happened then?

The concept of parallel universes opens up the possibility that in another dimension, Shakespeare never wrote Romeo and Juliet, Gareth beat Will to win Pop Idol and that you in fact were never born. These pieces together create a dimension of the life you lead, so therefore my dimensions will not be the same as yours because we haven’t made the same choices in our lives.

You may well argue that all of these theories contradict science. Well in fact they actually complement it. The idea of a parallel universe began when scientist’s quest for knowledge grew so, they seeked to find a solution to everything-the “ultimate theory”.

Using gravity as a starting point, scientists began to question why it was possible to overcome a force supposedly so strong that it keeps everything to the ground. But when this was approached in a different way, scientists realised just how weak a force gravity is. For instance, if you try to travel beyond our atmosphere using new technologies you can escape Earth’s gravitational pull. How is this possible?

One possibility was this: What if the universe parallel to ours is actually the universe with gravity and it releases gravity into space as we do pollution into our atmosphere. The result being that our gravitational pull is not ours at all but is the reminent of that from another universe, a leak if you will.
We depend on other dimensions just as we rely on each other.

An argument that could be used against our theory is the suggestion that if all these dimensions surround us, how come we don’t slip in and out of them. To this we would answer, “how do you know that you don’t?” For an example, De ja vous could be a possible merging of two dimensions, perhaps the future/past one. You have the feeling you have done something or something has happened before, what’s to say that it hasn’t happened before?

Another form of a near inevitable gateway could be death. For those who believe that death is just the beginning of something else, what would you think if we were to propose that heaven and hell were dimensions themselves? Some people who have had near death experiences claim to have seen a “bright white light” or a “light at the end of the tunnel”. These lights could be the gateways to the other dimensions and the people who saw them did in fact see the portal but were brought back to this dimension with the aid of modern day medicine.

There are other areas in this world that could be gates to other dimensions. The Bermuda triangle is sometimes considered to be one of these gateways as people, boats and aircraft have all disappeared without trace. Did a magnetic field from within the Earth disrupt navigational equipment sending them off course or did they slip into an alternate reality?

Black holes are also considered to be star gates to other dimensions and it is thought that UFO’s could travel through these star gates from other universes.

As a human race we think we know so much about the world, which surrounds us, but what do we know of the next? The greed for knowledge grows that many have forgotten the basic principle of creating an idea, researching and proving it. They are stuck in their own way of thinking and cannot see the big picture. The universe, this universe, the next and so on.

We have 2D, 3D and 4D dimensions. Ones you can see on paper, ones you can touch and ones you can feel. In 3D a shape will have sides, edges, vertices etc. Can you really believe that our universal dimension is just one block? Why couldn’t there be more out there?

The biggest problem with this theory is ignorance. People in general have preconceived ideas and closed minds. They will not allow themselves to believe in something without solid evidence. Christopher Columbus himself must have had to deal with many narrow-minded people.

There are a great many things in this world, or the next, and just because we don’t know about them or can’t prove them, it doesn’t make them false. When people didn’t know the earth was round it didn’t mean that it wasn’t. All we ask is that you will allow your minds to be that little bit more open to consider that Parallel universes could exist. After all, Lack of evidence is not proof of absence!
smilies/wink.gif

[Enedhil]

have you ever seen a really old map of the world? the shapes of the continents et al?

It's really facinating, and possible that ME could have exsited i think.
smilies/wink.gif

[ April 12, 2002: Message edited by: Enedhil ]

[Orodhromeus]

Gorothlammothiel, what was being discussed was science, not spiritualism or science-fiction.
Theoretical models support the existence of universes with more than 4 dimensions, or where time runs backwards (cause follows the effect - naked singularity). But ours has 4, including one that could be only one-way (ie time). Gravity was explained before a "Unified Theory" was even sought for, and gravity doesn't involve parallel universes at all. The Bermuda Triangle never existed, in my opinion; no more ships & planes dissapeared there than in any area of the Earth.
Parallel universes were created just because of that "what if". What if Nazis had taken over the UK in 1942? Would the World War Two have ever ended? How different the world would be in 2002? To answer such questions, one imagines the course of events that would follow if that takeover would have happened. Nothing important happens in Normandie in 1944. USA can't successfully strike back. Japan keeps Oceania, China & Indochina hers; Germany rules over Europe. USSR is attacked on 2 fronts and eventually succumbs. Boy, I'm going far, I like speculating dystopia! My point is that parallel universes were nothing more that a good way to tell stories, a scenario twist. But as it often happens, science-fiction inspired science, and science considered looking if that parallel universe idea could be true. And the search still goes on. Whatever popular opinion might think, nothing has been proved yet, but many serious people think parallel universes might exist.

Maybe you'll call me close-minded, but I don't think I am. I believe in parallel universes, though maybe not in the interaction between two. But too much nonesense is being said in the topic of spiritualism, so much that I've lost faith into it.

[Little_My*]

Do any of you know where the world Middle-earth comes from? It's a larga bit of the old nordic Mytholoy . Midgård is the swedish name for Middle-earth. Anyway, I would find it hard to belive that a world that Tolkien came up and named after the world in the nordic Mytholoy with would be real...
If you want to read more about the real Middle-earth/Midgård...read this.. http://jotunheim-dk.com/Nordic_Mythology/mythology_Midgaard.htm

[Gorothlammothiel]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree Orodhromeus. Although I wouldn't call you closed-minded, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and I respect that although I will have to correct a few points made.....

The idea of Gravity not being related to PU is wrong, and scientifically proven to be.

These PU's are membranes which ripple (you can relate to "M-Theory" here)and it is indeed science. "String theory" is another scientific foundation for the existance of other such dimensions.

These two theories combined do in fact prove the exisitance of PU and scientists in Britain and the US believe so.

If you can get hold of a copy,I recommend the book "The Expanded Universe" as it clearly covers all of the points relating to science and spritualism, often using quantum mechanics as a way to explain and without insulting anyone's intelligence, it can be quite heavy reading.

One last point, science indeed is the key to so much in this world and if people feel the need to escape reality and this science, then a fictional world is the way to escape it. Let others believe and there is proof there whether people are willing to accept it or not. Let your mind escape that which society has forced upon you, and don't let them bring you down...

[VanimaEdhel]

By the way, Tolkien did state that Middle Earth was our world, but at an imaginary time in the past.

I actually always believed that the narrator who was saying "...our time..." was another person, maybe a hobbit or a human, retelling the old stories, not Tolkien, himself.

And who knows: maybe there is a Middle Earth in a Parallel Universe. And maybe a visitor from there (an Elf or Human or Hobbit or Dwarf or Orc (quite possible these days, from some of the people I've heard about) or Balrog...) somehow stumbled into this universe and told Tolkien for some reason, and...and...I'm rambling now, aren't I?

Well, maybe Tolkien took artistic lisence, since he is such an amazing writer, and changed some of the story and kept the basic idea the same and wove a story of such meaning and feeling that we are writing posts about it today.

Oh: and I plan that when this soul takes its final, immortal form, that it will be an Elf of Middle Earth (according to my friend, who reads palms, my lines say that I am not human, but that I am a nymph, or an elf, or something...I'm going to repay her reading by doing a Tarot Reading for her when I get my cards as a present...as they always must be).

[Child of the 7th Age]

Sadly, I do not believe that Middle-earth is a physical reality, either in this world or another parallel universe. And yet.... I also believe that the most important things in the universe are not those that have physical reality. On some level, Tolkien was speaking incredible truths. There is no other way of explaining why his words have touched so many people profoundly in so many different places on our Earth. You know, a well-know guest once came to Tolkien's house in Oxford. This is how the author described the meeting: "I became aware that he was looking fixedly at me. Suddenly he said, 'Of course, you don't suppose, do you, that you wrote all that book yourself?'....I think I said: 'No, I don't suppose so any longer.' An alarming conclusion for an old philologist to draw concerning his private amusement. But not one that should puff any one up who considers the imperfections of "chosen instruments", and indeed what sometimes seems their lamentable unfitness for the purpose." (Letter 328 written in 1971)

This, to me, is a startling admission. And, in my heart, I do believe there is truth spoken here. So physical reality or no, and whether you call him Eru or G-d or Hashem, I feel there was a wind of grace that came to Tolkien so he could share these haunting and compelling tales with us. sharon,the 7th age hobbit

[Ahanarion]

Thank you all for your thoughts on the subject they are greatly appreciated.

[Aralaithiel]

While I wait for FOTR to come out on DVD, I have been watching the DVD of the National Geographic special they did on LOTR. They quote Tolkien as saying that he didn't invent ME, but merely rediscovered it.

If it truly does exist, then I'm leaving Earth and going to ME. In the words of Cartman from South Park:"Screw you guys, I'm going home!" (to ME, that is! LOL!) smilies/biggrin.gif

[Demloth of Dol Amroth]

Well, what i'm about to say is gonna really make you wonder. i have four friends who, by cunning, secrecy, and political means, plan to take over the world. seriously-oone is going to control a computer corporation, another is going to run for president, and if they replace manual counters or update counting machines by then-get the pic? how this relates to the discussion is that in this scenario of this scenario, middle-earth, or something similar to it, comes about due to actions of the one who becomes president. no, he is not the antichrist-we are all, in fact, christians-no, i haven't had any illegal or otherwise substances recently, or ever, and no, this isn't coming from an asylum. another friend of the computer-corporation is also planning to run for president, on the platform that he is not a politician. all of the aformentioned friends are also major tolkien fans as well. but as yet, it's just a story we made up, with as much chance as happening as elves marching into washington, though they did say something similar when the Wright brothers decided to test their airplane. like the moderator said, keep an open mind. the least likely thing usually will happen.

[Anarya SilverBranch]

This is what I love about this web site, you can say the most out of this world things and no one will think your wierd.

Anyway, I think that there are multiple different worlds like ME and fantasy authors are just their other worldly chroniclers of their histories. Seriously, like there might really be a Narnia like with C.S Lewis, or what ever that land is called that Tamara Pierce made up. How they get the info I don't know but it's cool to think about. I personally don't think that we have the only 'World' but thats just my opinion.

[VanimaEdhel]

Aralaithiel: I believe we have discussed this in our private conversations, but: you know I am coming with you! And bringing about 7 people (then there would be nine of us in total smilies/wink.gif ). Haha...well: we can all have our opinions on here. I agree: this is why this forum rocks. In many other places people hear like only one or two aspects of my personal religious beliefs, and they run away. No one even commented on my beliefs up there *points up to her other response*. I want to thank you for not threatening to burn me at the stake or some equally as horrid end smilies/tongue.gif !

[Anarya SilverBranch]

And bringing about 7 people (then there would be nine of us in total

I'm one of those seven right smilies/biggrin.gif

[Gimli Son Of Gloin]

If ME is a PU(which I believe, but wish I was in)how would Tolkien have known? He didn't travel through our world and end up in ME. The only logical explanation is he was a Gandalf and had the Palantir that he recovered from Orthanc. Being the greastest wizard he managed to come to our ugly, dirty, evil, world and write down his epic, using the Palantir to communicate with ME. So he really isn't dead, he just went back to live in the greatest place in existance, Middle Earth... smilies/wink.gif

(actually I believe there is live elsewhere, and one of the other worlds has a great resembalence to ME, and its all coincidence. So ME isn't a PU, but rather a nother planet out there somewhere.) smilies/smile.gif

[Bruce MacCulloch]

OK, I've seen several people in this thread make reference to Professor Tolkien's description of Arda as our own world in the past. Well, here are the quotes:

(Note: He very specifically states that his mythology is not set on another planet, unlike what someone previously posted. These quotes are also not by a hobbit, elf or what-have-you - but are taken from his personal correspondence and letters regarding his stories mythology. Anyway, here's what the Professor has to say about it himself.)

From a letter to the Houghton Mifflin Co., 30 June 1955: 'Middle-earth', by the way, is not a name of a never-never land without relation to the world we live in (like the Mercury of Eddison). It is just a use of Middle English middel-erde (or erthe), altered from Old English Middangeard: the name for the inhabited lands of Men 'between the seas'. And though I have not attempted to relate the shape of the mountains and land-masses to what geologists may say or surmise about the nearer past, imaginatively this 'history' is supposed to take place in a period of the actual Old World of this planet.
From his notes on W.H. Auden's review of The Return of the King, 1956: I am historically minded. Middle-earth is not an imaginary world. ... The theatre of my tale is this earth, the one in which we now live, but the historical period is imaginary. ... Mine is not an 'imaginary' world, but an imaginary historical moment on 'Middle-earth' – which is our habitation.
From a letter to Rhona Beare, 14 October 1958: I have, I suppose, constructed an imaginary time, but kept my feet on my own mother-earth for [i]place[/]. I prefer that to the contemporary mode of seeking remote globes in 'space'. However curious, they are alien, and not lovable with the love of blood-kin. From a letter to Charlotte and Denis Plimmer, 8 February 1967: The action of the story takes place in the North-west of 'Middle-earth', equivalent in latitude to the coastlands of Europe and the north shores of the Mediterranean. But this is not a purely 'Nordic' area in any sense. If Hobbiton and Rivendell are taken (as intended) to be at about the latitude of Oxford, then Minas Tirith, 600 miles south, is at about the latitude of Florence. The Mouths of Anduin and the ancient city of Pelargir are at about the latitude of ancient Troy.

[ April 16, 2002: Message edited by: Bruce MacCulloch ]

[MYyyPreciousSS]

I think Middle Earth does exist, in our minds. If you believe in ME then to you, yes it is real. Tolkien always spoke as if ME was indeed real, because it came from his head and he created what ME is, to him, it is real. Our minds are what tell us if things are real, so as long as you believe in ME, it is real. As far as physically, as in a paralell universes, i'm not sure. A theroy that I have, (even though its not one that I deeply believe in, just a thought) is that such fantasy places do, or have exsisted and those who are lucky enough can open there minds and find such places again.
On a blank leaf I scrawled:'In a hole in a ground there lived a hobbit.' I did not and do not know why. -J.R.R. Tolkien
"History became legend, Legend became myth. And some things that should not have been forgotten where lost." Maybe certain people are ment to think things up again, to keep the story alive. Just maybe, ME exsisted once and Tolkien is like our storyteller, the one who knows the truth and tells it. Like for example people that can talk to the dead and tell loved ones they're thoughts.(Wither you believe it or not its just a example.)But I do truly believe, if you believe, then it is real.

[LeriumRedlark]

In Concerning Hobbits, the Prolouge to LOTR it says that Middle Earth still exists and that Hobbits have learned to avoid the Big Folk, and since men were banned from the Shire we wouldn't see them any way, the earth has changed, i belive that LOTR could have taken place in a period between the ice age and the extention of dinosaurs.

I believe Middle Earth is and was a physical place and that maybe, just maybe we live in it. People have unatural pointed ears, and some people succumb to evilness as Isildur did to the ring, there are Dwarfs, all same but taller than a hobbit is to be described.

Maybe, elves were absorbed into the Human race or vice versus. Evil exsits and always has. Middle Earth may just be a state of mind, but to me I much rather live in the state o mind than in today's world. Maybe live in the Shire, a very peaceful place, or in Lorien, a wonderfully beautiful wood or in Minas Thirth a thriving city.

LOTR is our history, and will forever exist in our hearts and minds, so it is physical


-Lerium Redlark

[Stefanie]

Middle Earth does exist to me. Just not externally at this point. And what's wrong with being a crazed Xfiler?

[Peregrin Boffin]

LOTR could have taken place in a period between the ice age and the extention of dinosaurs.

I found this from a FAQ concerning the gap of time between the fall of Barad-dûr and now.

I imagine the gap to be about 6000 years: that is we are now at the end of the Fifth Age, if the Ages were of about the same length as S.A. and T.A. But they have, I think, quickened; and I imagine we are actually at the end of the Sixth Age, or in the Seventh.
Letters, 283 (#211)

[ April 18, 2002: Message edited by: Peregrin Boffin ]

[Gorothlammothiel]

I never said there was Racorien, indeed I am glad of the title, but what was disappointing was that I was talking about PU's and Middle-Earth and they thought I was talking about the X-files.....

[Orodhromeus]

i belive that LOTR could have taken place in a period between the ice age and the extention of dinosaurs.

Sorry to be perfectionist, but what we call the (recent) Ice Age took place about 65 million years after the extinction of the Dinosaurs. It ended some 10-12,000 years ago.

[GreatWarg]

I beleive it to be real after all history became legend, legend became myth and things that should not have been forgotten were.

I very much believe this too. But I wasn't thinking of Paralell Universes, PM me your speech Gorothlammothiel! I'd love to read it!) I was thinking that it happened in the past. After all, Tolkien said in the Foreword of LotR that hobbits are not seen by people now even though they do exist because they are

Even in ancient days they were, as a rule, shy of the 'big Folk', as they called us, and now they avoid us with dismay and are becoming hard to find

This proves that even if there were hobbits, we would not notice them. This could well mean that there are still Elves around, or people with Elven blood in them. Not to mention people with Numenorean blood and so on. Tolkien may have, perhaps, mysteriously found remnants of Numenor, Gondor, Rohan, and other dwellings, though this does not seem likely.

And one could think, if Europe is believed to be where ME once was, and away Westward was Valinor, then North America itself could possibly be Valinor! It opens up a most interesting field of speculation. There may be people with high Elven blood in their veins! And what of Numinor? Numinor could have been crumpled by time and the Sea. And what about the other continents? Well, Unfinished Tales did make several points on lands beyond Mordor, thus Asia! And many people believe England to be where the Shire is. If that is the case, then land has indeed changed. But since continents shift, then perhaps England was once attached someplace else, thus finding Bree, Rivendell, Lothlorien, Moria, and all else! Mirkwood and the Lonely Mountain could be somewhere in Russia!

Okay, over-imginative mind here. But PM me if you want some of my ideas about this!

[Eowyn of Ithilien]

I do

[Losthuniel]

no, NA is not Valinor. it says somewhere that the Valar made Valinor invisible, to prevent men from getting there.
yes, i agree with the "history became legend, legend became myth, and things that should not have been forgotten were." philosophy. as for elves being around today, they most likely all went to Aman.
as to PU, a fantasy trilogy, His Dark Materials(whcih, i just found out 5 seconds ago, is being made into a move by dun dun dun...New Line!), uses this as a main theme. let me see if i can find the quote i want. no i cant. (whre is my HDM trilogy when i need it??)
so it runs along the lines of
"flipping a coin, and until the second it hits the ground, anything is possible. but it can only land one way. when it does hit the ground, instantly another universe springs off, but this time in which the coin landed the OTHER way up"
there, ive gone and made a botch of it. but it would only be for major things, like the outcome of a war, not a coin.
Tolkien stated that we are living in middle earth, but theres some food for thought.

[Amarantha Gamwich-Baggins]

A long time ago, in a place not too far away......

[ June 08, 2002: Message edited by: Amarantha Gamwich-Baggins ]

[Gandalf_theGrey]

Right you are, Losthuniel.

* bows a greeting *

I've found a website that answers the question about the location of Valinor more eloquently than I:

Originally, the "fashion" of Middle-earth was the flat world of the mediaeval universe. Valinor (the equivalent of Heaven in that the "gods" dwelt there) was physically connected to the rest of the world and could be reached by ship. When Númenor sank "the fashion of the world was changed": the flat world was bent into a round one, with new lands also being created; and Valinor was removed "from the circles of the World", and could no longer be reached by ordinary physical means. The Elves alone were still allowed to make a one-way journey to Valinor along "the Straight Road". (An elven ship on such a journey would grow smaller and smaller with distance until if vanished rather than sinking over the horizon as a human ships do.)

The above quote comes from the following website:
http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~bouvin/tolkien/fallofnumenor.html

The same website also provides an answer to the main question of this thread.

At your Service,

Gandalf the Grey

[Losthuniel]

Thank You, Gandalf *curtseys*.
I'Ve seen that quote somewhere before, and it does make sense.

[GreatWarg]

Ahhhhh, thank you Gandalf the Grey Wander. *bows deeply* Your words of wisdom are justified.

[Ulairi]

Peter Jackson described in an interview, that Tolkien created LotR as a sort of mythology for England. He saw the rich myths of Greece and such and starting thinking. The only real myths in England were King Aurther(Spelling?) and he wanted to add something amazing, that would be with us for ages to come.

[Demloth of Dol Amroth]

greatwarg-where is mordor in your approximations of loaction- And one could think, if Europe is believed to be where ME once was...And what about the other continents? Well, Unfinished Tales did make several points on lands beyond Mordor, thus Asia! And many people believe England to be where the Shire is. If that is the case, then land has indeed changed.

[Bêthberry]

Grateful thanks to Child of the 7th Age and Gandalf the Grey for their interesting sources.

"I became aware that he was looking fixedly at me. Suddenly he said, 'Of course, you don't suppose, do you, that you wrote all that book yourself?'....I think I said: 'No, I don't suppose so any longer.' An alarming conclusion for an old philologist to draw concerning his private amusement. But not one that should puff any one up who considers the imperfections of "chosen instruments", and indeed what sometimes seems their lamentable unfitness for the purpose." (Letter 328 written in 1971)

Child, I have often had the sense that Tolkien was inspired in a particular way. I have found this to be true for several other writers and so am very interested to see this quotation from the Letters, which I don't know. This fits in with Tolkien's comments about sub-creation and one, true myth, I think.

Gandalf , that link provides a focus for many questions and directions to extend discussion. Thank you for it. I particularly liked the acknowledgement that Tolkien used the fictional voice of the translator.Yet even here, I think, there are two meanings to his act of translating


Bethberry

[Aldagrim Proudfoot]

Although LOTR is fiction, I have heard that Tolien was trying to make a new mythology. I don't think he berlieved it was true, but it's not too idealistic. The people act like we would and it poses the idea that magic might actually be real.

[Leto]

Hoom hmmmm....to start with, I believe people here, in their enthusiasm for Tolkien, have rather misunderstood the meaning of his statements that 'Middle Earth is here'. He means that the place of his stories are Earth, the same Earth we live on...but the events there-in, and the time in which they take place, are creations of his own. He explicitly stated in several letters and essays that his purpose and love was myth-making. To create a history and mythology that was distinctly 'English' in flavor. Of course, he was a master philologist, and used inspiration from the mythlogies and languages of several different cultures to make his own history.
There is no doubt that he was 'inspired', and has also said that he felt that once he began the creation, things just came to him, falling into place. His mythology captures archetypes that have been a part of our being from time immemorial. This is why it all feels so 'real' to us. In a sense it is...what is 'real' about it is the emotions and soul 'memory' that it resurrects.
It seems more 'real' because Tolkien took the archetypal myth a step further, and created a history and continuity to his stories. I believe fully in the great vehicle which is the Human imagination. I do not believe Tolkien 'found' some other world or dimension or history, and simply recorded it, or translated it. Not in a literal sense. In a manner, we all do this, all the time, in the harnessing of our own imaginations. There are whole 'worlds' within, as of yet undiscovered, just waiting to be brought to life.
Middle Earth is 'real', in that it is a discovery from the depths of Tolkiens own soul, that resonates with all of us whos imaginations are likewise moved by his visions.

As for the 'scientific proof' of parallel universes, in the way which was described above, citing the phenomena of gravity, etc...that is all very nice speculation, but no real evidence or 'proof'. No way for such a theory to be tested, at least it has not been yet...so it is not proof. It is hardly irrefuteable...people have come up with hundreds of other pseudo-scientific explanations that connect all the phenomena that were given as 'evidence'. The idea that Middle Earth in all its detail, as it was written about by Tolkien, is one of these parallel universes is not even close to a 'scientific' theory.
Perhaps one might say that everything ever imagined is 'real' somewhere in the universe, or universes. Nothing wrong with daydreaming about such possibilities...but to claim that it is REAL without doubt is foolish.
How do we choose what to believe in? Is our beief, our 'reality' governed by escapist fantasies? reactions to a way of living which is stressful or unsatisfactory? a will to be 'special' and to know something more than the 'common' person next us? A need or desire to have something 'more' in one's life, apart from what we experience every day?

[Child of the 7th Age]

Bethberry - I have't looked at this thread in ages, but something pulled me back to your response. I really have no idea if parallel universes could exist. Maybe yes, maybe no??

But there is some level where Tolkien sensed these stories were "real", that they passed to him from some outside source. Perhaps that real is just the "real" of Myths and Truths, but there are times when that level of insight can be just as important as anything in the physical world.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[Gandalf_theGrey]

* smoking a conversational pipe, nods a greeting of acknowledgment to Losthuniel, Great Warg, and Bethberry *

Leto's post and Tolkien citation that "Middle Earth is here" have started me thinking, particularly when viewed in terms of the Professor's philosophy of "the long defeat."

"The long defeat" wherein one tragedy follows another as a result of Arda's / Earth's marring continues to play out around us in this current Age, as anyone reading the newspaper headlines can observe, and will continue until the world be made new.

How then to respond to this Middle Earth in which we find ourselves? I would say, with a wholesome Hobbitlike faithful resolve based on the belief that even the smallest individual is of immense value and can change the world. With hope even when you cannot see any. With a love great enough to give of self and take risks.

I am fortunate to know a "real life" Tom Bombadil, who happens to be a natural historian by profession, and with whom I work once in a while on a living history program. He hosts a dinner each year at his house for those of us who adventure with him.

And I am fortunate to have spent time with Elves. In September of 1996, one such Elf bestowed upon me a gift, which I have kept since then on a small table in my living room as a reminder. The gift was a token of encouragement in a world where the path can often be uncertain. May it remind me to stand firmly as I can no matter how much the bridge crumbles.

To my mind, there are parallels enough, with no need for an entire physical parallel universe.

Gandalf the Grey

[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: Gandalf_theGrey ]

[Bêthberry]

*sits a little ways away from the smoke of Gandalf_theGrey's pipeweed while offering a plate of strawberries to him, and to others present*

A wise and thoughtful response, Gandalf and truly typical of your astute way of understanding the nature of the journey. *nods solemnly but happily*

What matters is how we chose to act and where we set our sights, for in each of us the story is retold and relived. Parallel indeed.

*sits ruminating, contentedly*

Bethberry

[Feadolena Nolfare]

I agree heartily with Gandalf that the characters and themes from Tolkien's writing are patent in our everyday lives smilies/smile.gif

...With one exception. Middle-Earth evolves in a particular way: quality of existence has a definite downward trend.

Well, I take that back. Not so much downward as diluted; in the First Age and before, entire areas of land were markedly good or evil. But by the time of LotR, most of the places are just ordinary places with ordinary people, neither all good nor all evil. One can imagine that with the defeat of Sauron and the departure of the Elves, this line would become even more blurred.

However, anyone who has studied history to any degree will tell you that neither a downward trend nor good/evil dilution is taking place in the real world. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

Not that it isn't an intriguing idea... the "bending of the World" in Akallabeth remains my favourite snippet of Tolkien literature smilies/wink.gif

Speaking of bent worlds, I find the parallel universe theories to be mightily intriguing, but I am begging off judgement until I get some more reading material on the subject.

It is my personal opinion that the Mediterranean is roughly to the world of Greek mythology as Europe is to Middle-earth. The latter is based loosely on the former, and encompasses the concerns of it, but should not be taken as literally the same place. It's the land seen through the lens of myth.

Which in no way diminishes the messages conveyed in Tolkien's writing.

[Demloth of Dol Amroth]

alright, i'm gonna be off topic for a little bit, but here goes-just a little point to ponder. who says life on earth-earth doesn't go in a diluted/downwards trend, though? and with the hypothesis of evolution, who can say everything is in transit to a future perfection? in case you haven't noticed, the oil supplies are dwindling, clear habitable land also dwindles. not seeing perfection-now if only whoever is in charge of mechanical research would try to make feasible fusion power a reality, we might stave it off for a while yet. so in essence, tolkien might be making a point about ourselves as much as he is writing a story-that middle earth is our earth, and that as things decay and our lost in middle-earth, such happens here.

[Leto]

"Middle Earth is Here." sounds like Uncle Chou in "Big Trouble in Little China"..."China is Here, Mr Burton!" "What does that mean? huh? what is that supposed to mean?! China is Here..." smilies/smile.gif

[Aldagrim Proudfoot]

Leto, that's a good analogy. It actually helps with what I was going to say. Middle-Earth is a sort of a mirror world of our own. It shows us what the world is like. Tolkien was a genius not only to create an entirer landscape and history, but also to see human nature. No character in The Silmarillion or Lord of the Rings is perfect. They all have faults and weaknesses, even Frodo. Look at the characters and you will see your friends enemiesa and yourself.Middle Earth is what Tolkien called a Secondary World.

[Gandalf_theGrey]

* gratefully accepts strawberries from Bethberry * Thank you for your kind words. I agree when you voice the concept regarding how each of us chooses to live on an individual basis as being what's important. Your style of expression is poetic as well.

* nods acknowledgment of Feadolena Nolfare's words, inhaling pleasant fragrant smoke * When you say "the more things change, the more they stay the same," you explain why technology with its promise to solve everything with its progress does not live up to its promise. While technology grows ever more sophisticated, human nature remains true to template. And attempting to change human nature by artificial or contrived means ... which nature strives toward freedom ... would only breed Orcs. Change is possible and indeed worthy, ... when it is a voluntary choosing of transcendance by the individual.

Gandalf the Grey

[ June 11, 2002: Message edited by: Gandalf_theGrey ]

[MallornLeaf]

I know two things. One- we DO NOT live in ME. two-I wish we did!!!!

ME is not a real place, unfortunately, but i love to fantasize that it is!

[NazgulNumber10]

We don't live in ME. It lives in us. In our souls and hearts. May I quote the Matrix your mind makes it real
smilies/evil.gif

[Kalla]

I couldn't agree more with you NazgulNumber10!! I'm a bit new here, usually in the movies section, but I"m venturing out today. smilies/smile.gif I think middle earth is within us...our hearts, our souls, and that is what enables us to see these parallels. Middle Earth is as real as the bonds of love you have for your friends and family...but it is intangible. You cannot prove you love someone any more than you can prove middle earth was a real solid place. We all know people like Bilbo, Gandalf, Aragorn, Boromir, Sam, and Frodo. And if you look at any personality test it is interesting to find that if you take LotR and were to put a sterotyped personality on each, the porportions would be similiar to what you'd find today. Those like Boromir and Merry and Pippin would be numerous while those like Frodo and Gandalf would be less. I also think one of the greatest things this story has, is it gives us a chance to remember what is really important and what should really matter. I guess in that sense, some really do live in Middle Earth, while others live on Earth, and others still just live.

As for civilization's dwindling quality...*shrug* I've had the fortunately experience to work in retail, where civilization is at it's best :P, and in teaching where you see it all. What I have seen is a trend in people becoming more focused on themselves, or at least their families. I've seen people walk by when a new mother's packages fall all over, but I've also seen a little boy give my brother a toy he had just bought for no reason...he just said, here, this is for you and his mother asked if he was sure and he said yes so she nodded and then left. I've seen children come to school with clothes too small and dirty and dark circles under their eyes, but I've seen them laugh and have fun as they play. What saddens me is I am seeing more and more people who walk by and hearing less and less laughter. However, about the time I feel like the whole of society is going down the drain, a little boy helps an old man walk to the escalator, so...lol. I guess what this rambling is trying to say is that I do not think Middle Earth was going down the tubes...perhaps it was becoming unclear who was "good" and who was "bad" if you choose to sterotype a contradiction that lives within us all. But I feel it is no different from today...you cannot tell who it is that is "good" or "bad" Just like the dishelved boy...he was not who a sterotype would say would do such a thing, whereas two young people walking by bump into an old person and don't even appoligize and they look like a classic couple with a baby on the way. I guess I just see most of Middle Earth's society the same as the society we have today, just with different surroundings.

Of course, I believe in magic too, so...there you have it. smilies/smile.gif I can listen to the laughter of children and I know...magic does exist...we just must be open to see it. If that is not enough...to know that with love, we can do anything and it will withstand the trials of time seems pretty amazing and magical to me. But enough of my ramblings...I have many thoughts and words are not always the best tool for me to use to express them, at least not in paragraph forms. Thanks for reading my ramblings, it's always nice to have a place to express your ideas, even if they don't always come out right. smilies/wink.gif

I think Middle Earth is that place within ourselves where we truly want to go...the core of who we are, good and bad together. A place where we are accepted and safe to be just ourselves. It's that part of us that clings to hope in the worst of times, allowing us to laugh despite ourselves. We can all live there, but many choose a different reality, for reality is just that. What is reality to a mental patient is not to you, and yet, if that person hears helicopters and there are none you can hear, it is no different than if you see a bird fly by your window as you're driving. Just because someone can or cannot say they heard/saw/felt the same, does not mean it wasn't real. Life is what we make it...and thus reality is how we see life.

[Losthuniel]

*claps* well said Kalla, well said!

[Beleglas]

Yes, Tolkien made this like additional mythology of England because there are only the Arthur legends and Beowulf.
Tolkien is a little vague about us living in Middle Earth but somewhere in the Hobbit I believe he says about the Hobbits that "they are not seen often anymore because they hide from the big people (humans)" or something like that. Also he talks about the constellations having other names "in that time", but I believe that was all in the Hobbit and maybe he changed his mind about that later.

[Evisse the Blue]

I felt like bringing back this wonderful thread, in connection to the current thread about 'Elf-sighting' and such. Enjoy!

[burrahobbit]

The short answer is yes, the shorter answer is no. Both are correct.

[onewhitetree]

Yes.

[burrahobbit]

But also no. Silly.

[Reginald Hill]

In response to Leto
As for the 'scientific proof' of parallel universes, in the way which was described above, citing the phenomena of gravity, etc...that is all very nice speculation, but no real evidence or 'proof'.
The idea of PUs is a theory. Theories are based on observations that are true until further observations prove them wrong (that's a little unclear I think). Theories can almost never be proven right because their is always the possibilty that it will change. That way any largely believed theory can turn out to be wrong. So until observations show that PUs don't exist (which may already have happened, I'm not up to date on any scientific discoveries) the theory stands.

[Atariel]

Okay, the Shire is England, but there is NO WAY that NA is Valinor. no offence to americans. but, for the country that consumes the most beefburgers in a year there is no way that it is Valinor, which was removed from the circles of the world by the Valar anyway.

[Gorothlammothiel]

Here, Here Reginald Hill!

Closed minds won't get people very far, there was a time when the world was thought to be flat and that the sun orbited earth. Those were maintained until proven otherwise but were also believed because the new idea of the world being round was "too silly".

More fool them, lack of evidence is not proof of absence.

[Nieninque]

If only... wouldn't it be so awesome to find the ancient ruins of Rohan or Lothlorien? As to parallel universes... very, very plausible. Perhaps our ideas of Heaven and Hell, and Middle Earth, come from glimpses into these parallel worlds. And then, maybe VanimaEdhel is right, and a visitor from ME came by and visited Tolkien!

[Elven Mistress]

Okay, well, i'm not sure if i'm off topic, but here i go...

A wise person (also known as my brother) once told me what he believed about books. He said that he believes that authors have some kind of a...power....they can see things that actually happen/happened. I love the idea, i mean, that all the books you've ever read - they really happened! And think about it, it's quite plausible. How do we know that there aren't other worlds out there (or parallel universes as some people mentioned) that these events occured at/in.

So, Middle Earth COULD have existed - whether on "earth", a different world, or a parallel universe, i believe there is some truth to it...

[MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie]

Now that I finally read all the replies, I can reply myself.

First of all, the original question was- Do we live in middle-earth?

My answer- no.

We don't live in ME because it never existed, or at least I think it never existed. To me, ME is just made up by tolkien. I think that tolkien based it upon the middle-ages, and I think that he loved the middle ages. He might have loved the MA so much that he decided to recreate it with a different name; hence, middle-earth. I think that tolkien liked how the middle-ages were, he just wanted to have his own, with his own stroies and events and history. The more he added to it, the more complex it became and in turn, the more realistic it seemed . Middle-earth could just be the middle-ages edited to his liking. Now, you might say, 'well there were no wizards or hobbits in the middle-ages,' right, but tolkien also created middle-earth to be a fantasy also, and not fully realistic. By doing that, it makes middle-earth belong more to tolkien; it makes it his own middle-ages. Also by making middle-earth more of a fantasy, it makes middle-earth, to me, look older and more legendary and more mythical.

I don't think that ME existed a long time ago. Why? Because if it did, how would tolkien have known it did, and if he somehow knew that it existed, how would he have known its full history and everything that happened?

That quote, 'history became legend, legend became myth and things that should not have been forgotten were,' refers in context of ME only and to the ring and the history of the ring when it was lost. It does not hve anything to do with us forgetting about ME. Tolkien created ME because he wanted to. I think that he liked to create worlds and in a way play God. ME never was so it could not
have been forgotton. However I may be wrong. If you believe in the theory of the Big Bang, you could say that ME was on earth before it exploded and started over.

And also, if you say ME was forgotton, I think that it is more like MA was forgotton. The middle-ages was such an amazing period of time and people just forgot about it. Tolkien brought it back in his own vision through his books, in middle-earth.

Some of you say that ME might be like our world, with England as the shire and North America as Valinor. I say yes only in a ceartain way. ME is not in geographic relation to our earth. I think that ME represented mainly Europe during the MA and that in a way England could be seen as the shire. However, it may not be so and in comparrison to places in ME, Europe might look really mixed up.

Enough of that...Gorothlammothiel, you said something about pu's and different dimensions. I like the essay- its good and its interesting. The point about the de ja vu's is really catchy. However, I disagree with you.

Your take on a 4th dimension, time, would allow for us to have a pu. I disagree. I think that time is not a dimension because it is only one way where as the third dimension allows for two ways- up or down/ back or forth/ left or right. Time only goes one way- forward. The 12th century world could not co-exist w/this present world because of time. The 12th century had to end in order for the world to get to the 21st century. However, I may be wrong. I don't know. ME may have existed after all. You can't prove that something is not there. That has always bothered me.

I think that ME did not exist like a world we live in. It was never real and never official. Therefore we can not live in it and no one could have. But I believe that it is a place that you can go. When you read the books, you enter an illusion and escape from reality. That is why I love Middle-Earth.


Thanks for listening.

[ February 03, 2003: Message edited by: MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie ]

[Demloth of Dol Amroth]

I think that it is more like MA was forgotton.
how right ye are, willie, there are times when i think that nobody really cares about that interesting time of history anymore-if they even care about history at all. though i don't know if the point you made on tolkien building on the middle ages is accurate-did you read some correspondence or personal memoirs of tolkien, and did they explicitly say this? i haven't, so do excuse me if you have and you do know.

[JenFramp]

If everyone would read Tolkien's letters he says himself that middle-earth began as being europe, and he wanted to create a mythology for an england that didn't really have one. He also mentions that the land masses don't obviously match up so it was just a story. A brilliant story that a man named J.R.R Tolkien wrote

[morwen edhelwen]

I was just about to talk about the idea of ME as a fantasy time- but I found the last comment interesting. Because I used to daydream (still do about a parallel world where all the events of the books had actually happened and Prof. Tolkien's 'translator explanation" was true- he really had found the "Red Book of Westmarch" in an old room somewhere- it was just that no-one else know about it.. I still have the story idea about a fantasy writer who translated the books he wrote from old stories told to him in his dreams....(strange coincidence!) -Morwen.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

This thread is hilarious. :D

[Galadriel]

Well, for me it was always real. When I see the abuse our precious Earth has been through, I think of Middle-Earth, and at that time it is completely real for me. ME is not just a land...it is a way of life.
And I found that comment about parallel universes very interesting. I've been brought up in a Buddhist environment (it's freaky how so many of its theories can be put to practice) and one of our sayings is that a parallel universe actually exists. Now, I'm an Atheist, but I love thinking about all this kind of wonder. From what I can make out, it actually does exist. Perhaps science does not have proof (yet) but for some eerie reason I am absolutely certain that there is such a thing as a PU.
Long live Tolkien, and long live Middle-Earth! Perhaps it is created by our dreams and thoughts! My uncle is a metaphysics major (and a maths major AND a sanskrit major) and talking with him, I have visited many strange worlds that I had never even thought of before.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

It seems many people agree that 'reality is overrated'. :p

[eothain of fenland]

I've always thougt of ME as a legend. It is partially true, but very biased. Orcs are not that easy to kill, and probably not as ugly as they are described. There is no magic, no ringwraiths, sauron was maybe just a powerful man, and the sauron spirit eye thing was another powerful man or something... And as people passed on this legend the story was altered and changed a lot. But in reality this story is just a bunch of made up ........ that I and many others think is very interesting, and it is made up so well that people think it is real...
And as for parallel universes, I personally dont believe in them. But I think it could be possible... But when people say "if you would have done this, something else could happen etc..." Well... they did not do anything differently so nothing different happened... I dont think my decision will start another PU or anything

[Lotrelf]

If we live in Middle Earth, in which age are we? While reading Tolkien's books I get a strong feeling that his work was inspired from Hindu Mythology (I don't know about Greek as I haven't read anything about that). According to Hindu Mythology, there were four Ages. First three ages were like I read in The Silmarillion. Good- evil, elves(there were magical creatures mentioned like Elves),monsters etc. It all is supposedly true as there are many evidences found and it has hardly happened that something of their presence can be ignored. Forth Age was ours i.e. Men's (and women's), and now there's no more magic, nothing. All this makes me believe that we do live in ME. Or ME was inspired from our world.

[Zigûr]

If we live in Middle Earth, in which age are we?
According to Professor Tolkien in Letters "I imagine we are actually at the end of the Sixth Age, or in the Seventh."

While reading Tolkien's books I get a strong feeling that his work was inspired from Hindu Mythology (I don't know about Greek as I haven't read anything about that).
I wouldn't be too concerned about Greek Mythology, as Professor Tolkien's primary interest in this regard would be, I would argue, Norse Mythology. A system of ages occurs in many European systems of belief as well, including early medieval Anglo-Saxon ones, with which Professor Tolkien would of course have been very familiar. Medieval people so named their era as they believed they were living in a 'Middle Age' between the pre-Christian era and the forthcoming Kingdom of God. I suppose a system of ages might be one of those cultural artefacts embedded in the beliefs of numerous Indo-European cultures.

All this makes me believe that we do live in ME. Or ME was inspired from our world.
Middle-earth was indeed meant to be "our world." More from the Letters:
"imaginatively this 'history' is supposed to take place in a period of the actual Old World of this planet."
"The theatre of my tale is this earth, the one in which we now live, but the historical period is imaginary."
"I have, I suppose, constructed an imaginary time, but kept my feet on my own mother-earth for place."
Although I believe this was an idea that bothered Professor Tolkien more and more as he got older and noticed that there couldn't be much consistency between this and scientific knowledge of astronomy, geology and so on (the Sun obviously had to exist before photosynthetic plants, for example; nor could the geography of the world change so substantially between the end of the Third Age and now, a time period he considered to be "about 6000 years."

[FerniesApple]

maybe ME is how our world could have been if religion and industry hadnt destroyed all the magic. If the Romans hadnt destroyed the Celtic culture, killed all the Druids. If materialism hadnt destroyed the simple life.