WW: XCVIII ~ Game Thread ~ Death at the Foot of Taniquetil

[Kath]

In the days of peace in Valinor a dark evil has grown among Elves and Valar alike. Assumed to be the result of an evil work of Melkor, previously non-violent Elves have turned upon each other in vicious ways. Many of the inhabitants of the land have fled to the relative safety of the mountain home of Manwe. However, at the foot of the mountain, danger lurks in one small village ...

... Rune and Greenie peered out of their homes, glancing suspiciously at each other as they slowly made their way to the fountain that marked the centre of the tiny village that had sprung up over the last few days. Shasta had said the Valar were going to send someone to inform the villagers about the worrying deaths that had marked their departure from their previous homes. They met him hurrying along the road with Boro and all four travellers made sure they kept a safe distance apart. They had all seen the bodies, no culprits had been caught - trust had to be earned now.

sally called out as they arrived. "These are the last ones!" She was speaking to a tall Elf stood at the side of the falling water. Pom and Nerwen moved aside as the final four slid into the small circle that had gathered around the Elf.

"I am Kath." She stated simply. "I have come to tell you what we know of the danger surrounding the village. There are three monsters among you. They are separate and do not know each other ... yet. We have found in other villages that these creatures are drawn to each other and as they meet their power becomes greater and more die."

"But is there no protection?" Cried Coppermirror in horror. skip spence and MCR murmured in agreement.

"In a village this small there is not." Replied Kath. "It is up to you and you alone to stop these creatures. If you can agree amongst yourselves to put one villager to the gallows that villager will be granted death if found to be one of these evil creatures. If that villager is an innocent their soul will be kept safe until such time as the danger is passed. Work well together to save yourselves. Return to your homes and lock your doors. Your task will begin in the morning.""

With that, ignoring any further questions, the Elf stepped into the fountain and vanished amid the water.

The villagers turned to each other, each face holding more suspicion than the last.

Villagers:
Rune
Greenie
Shasta
sally
Boro
Pom
Nerwen
Coppermirror
skip spence
MCR

[Kath]

The Night had been full of terrors. As the three dark creatures that lived amidst the frightened villagers shed their daily guise and revealed themselves in their own homes their howls could be heard through the tightly shut doors and windows. The howls held a note of question - each creature attempting to find the other evil-doers in the village.

Yet one voice was different. Feanor, mighty among Elves, had sent a gift in secret to the village. One was able to search for the side of good, seeking out the evil.

This voice though was all but drowned out by the delight and malice in the three voices. They had found prey.

~ ~ ~

In the morning the villagers awoke, surprised and relieved to still be alive. In fear but with a kind of dreadful fascination they put their heads round doors - expecting to see some grisly sight before them. They were not disappointed.

"Kath!" Screamed a voice from the crowd.

The villagers crowded around the mangled corpse that lay in the once beautiful fountain, the water now a deep red. It was indeed Kath, their only link to help from outside the village, mauled and murdered

"We are lost." A deep voice intoned sadly.

"No! Remember her words!" Came a hopeful cry. "We can still save ourselves. Let us discuss now what we know of each of us and hope that we can discover evil before it takes us all."

Day 1 has begun. Villagers please begin discussing your fate.

[Nogrod]

Nogrod was among the crowd and kind of baffled why he was not mentioned in the account as among the villagers... "maybe it's my usual quietness..." he thought while turning away in disgust from Kath's mauled body with the others.

Well, anyway, if the wolves didn't know who the others were, then we might have an advantage if we acted wolvishly just to derail them from their real target of finding out their mates.

Then again it would be that the most vocal players might be more the targets than they normally are (which isn't a low probability either) as it goes with the wolves' "popular vote" unassisted by strategical considerations... which gamewise could be bad.

Then again, if we all act like wolves toDay it makes the voting quite random - which it in some ways is on D1's most of the time - but well, forcing a policy on D1 rarely works either... :rolleyes:

So in the end... hmph. Let's take that as a starter? Or any other ideas?

[MCRmyGirl4eva]

MCR stared at the mauled body in the water. She glanced about, staring at each of the villagers in turn. Working together to find the wolves seemed folly; it would only lead to more death when the wolves were aware of the individual villagers' plans. She had been planning to save herself at any cost, and seeing the mangled body in the fountain solidified her conviction.

"Do as you all will," she announced. "Save yourselves, and your families if you must. Trust no one whom you do not know better than your brother. Loose lips shall be the death of us all. We are alone. There is nobody from outside to help us through the wilderness, so those who plan to flee shall have no guide. I shed no tears over Kath, for though she was a brave woman, I have no compassion to spare."

Her skirts swished about her as she walked away, stepping around Nogrod, and her departing form was followed by the amazed gazes of the others.
___________________

Please, if I seem to be missing the point or something, don't be afraid to help me out. I've never done something like this on this site, and I want to enjoy it without ruining it for others. Thanks!

[Coppermirror]

Coppermirror stood thinking near the village centre for some time, eyes averted from the grisly sight in the fountain. At least among the crowd, it was possible to feel a semblance of safety, however shaky. "Alas, poor Kath. Her words were true. There is no protection for us, but for the plan she brought."


Well, anyway, if the wolves didn't know who the others were, then we might have an advantage if we acted wolvishly just to derail them from their real target of finding out their mates.

I wonder about how good that idea is...

Advantages:
- We could prevent the wolves from having any real data to go on. Usually, an information blocking strategy like this would only hurt the village, but the wolves need information too.
- As long as the wolves don't have sound information to go on, they might kill a wolf in the Night.

Disadvantages:
- There'd be little basis for today's lynching target. Albeit it's rare to have solid info on Day 1 anyway.
- The rest of us will also lack information going into Day 2. On the other hand, unless the wolves found each other last Night, there would be little info we could guess from their Day 1 behaviour anyway.

Then again it would be that the most vocal players might be more the targets than they normally are (which isn't a low probability either) as it goes with the wolves' "popular vote" unassisted by strategical considerations... which gamewise could be bad.

Sorry Nog, I didn't understand this paragraph. Why is it that the most vocal players would be more of a target using the "everyone acts wolvish" strategy?

Working together to find the wolves seemed folly; it would only lead to more death when the wolves were aware of the individual villagers' plans. She had been planning to save herself at any cost, and seeing the mangled body in the fountain solidified her conviction.

"Do as you all will," she announced. "Save yourselves, and your families if you must. Trust no one whom you do not know better than your brother. Loose lips shall be the death of us all. We are alone. There is nobody from outside to help us through the wilderness, so those who plan to flee shall have no guide. I shed no tears over Kath, for though she was a brave woman, I have no compassion to spare."

Miss MCR, I understand your worry completely. We can trust no-one. But we must all work together to find the wolves, nonetheless.

[Nogrod]

Haha. I thought of going to sleep "early enough" but being secluded from the internet and social media for four days clearly takes it's toll... now I'm pondering whether to stay up to look for the presidential debate (updated: only forty minutes from now - but it ends soo late...)


Hey Coppermirror, nice to have your input. I don't think we have played together earlier. Welcome!

And it looks like you're playing and not just lurking around. Kudos for that - and I really appreciate that. We need people who play and just not hide in the corners.


That said, your comments or "analysis" ("advantages and disadvantages") of my first post seemed to be only restating what I said...

What you said you didn't get is the following.

Let's say you are a wolf X and you need to get someone killed by the rules which say there has to be at least two votes for the kill to take place in the first place. So how do you pick your choices when the kill demands others (you don't know who they are) to think the same way? So all the "high-profile" players are more probable to enter their lists as any wolf would pick them thinking the others would think like the same... So not so much strategical discussion but trying to make the same pick other wolves would do (in your opinion). So the "obvious ones" die first.

Now I think the wolves have thought about that already (they are not stupid to not have thought of that) so that can be said out aloud. And why I think we should speculate on this is actually that the wolves need to be also afraid of killing their mates so an open discussion might help us making their picks harder.

We need to stir the pot.


On another note.

I can't see why some thought the wolves would be underhanded in this game because they didn't know each others' identities? I mean if they don't happen to aid lynching one of their fellows (3/11 chance on D1) we have no way of findng a connection which is the only good way of hunting them down as there is no connection in the first place.

So many shots in the dark to follow. Let's pray Valar we get them right.

And no, this is no pessimism. Just stating the facts and encouraging everyone to make their best!

[Pomegranate]

Pom sat on the ground for a long time, her head bent and her eyes seeing nothing. Everything seemed to happen around her as if in a haze. People walked around her, shaking their heads and murmuring sad words, all glancing towards her every so often, sometimes with compassion, sometimes with the same doubt that was in their expressions all the time these days.

Suddenly she rose. She was sad - yet it was time to do something.

I personally think that, given how small the amount of villagers there is compared to the amount of wolves, a technique which will keep us from having something to analyse today and tomorrow could prove to be pretty disastrous. The wolves need information, but I think we need information more.

Also, there is a chance some of the wolves already know each other, since they had a dream last night - obviously we cannot know whether they succeeded, but I think it's a point to remember. And a further point, I think, against just trying to seem wolvish.

Edit. x/ed with Nog's #6.

[Pomegranate]

Regarding obvious kills. No-traces should be the second pretty obvious group of targets - though, on a second thought, especially if the wolves don't know each other, there is not quite as many traces left by a kill of a loud player than there would usually be. Indeed, agree with Nog about his point on the wolves not being underhanded by the set-up of the game.

[Coppermirror]

Hey Coppermirror, nice to have your input. I don't think we have played together earlier. Welcome!

Thank you! This is only my second game, but I'm sure I've seen your name before.

What you said you didn't get is the following.

Let's say you are a wolf X and you need to get someone killed by the rules which say there has to be at least two votes for the kill to take place in the first place. So how do you pick your choices when the kill demands others (you don't know who they are) to think the same way? So all the "high-profile" players are more probable to enter their lists as any wolf would pick them thinking the others would think like the same... So not so much strategical discussion but trying to make the same pick other wolves would do (in your opinion). So the "obvious ones" die first.

That makes some sense. What I didn't understand was why the everyone acting wolvish strategy you proposed would make high-profile players more likely to die, but it seems that's not what you were suggesting after all. Unless I'm still missing something. I am a bit tired today.

I personally think that, given how small the amount of villagers there is compared to the amount of wolves, a technique which will keep us from having something to analyse today and tomorrow could prove to be pretty disastrous. The wolves need information, but I think we need information more.

Also, there is a chance some of the wolves already know each other, since they had a dream last night - obviously we cannot know whether they succeeded, but I think it's a point to remember. And a further point, I think, against just trying to seem wolvish.

I think that's persuasive. Today's the day with the lowest chance of the wolves already knowing who the others are. If there isn't any real discussion today, there's no behaviour to compare later behaviour against. And behaviour should change, sooner or later, unless the wolves are very unlucky with their dreams. I hope that makes sense.

It would be great if some more people would post, but the Day's still young. I hope everyone knows the game is running.

[Coppermirror]

It's quiet! Just 4 people out of 11 have shown up so far. I suppose that means most of the players must be in time zones where it's been inconvenient for them to drop into the forums so far. But it's getting to be inconvenient for my time zone, and that means I probably won't be back to this thread until I wake up in the morning, which should be somewhere between 4 and 6 hours before the deadline.

[Nerwen]

Well, anyway, if the wolves didn't know who the others were, then we might have an advantage if we acted wolvishly just to derail them from their real target of finding out their mates

HOOWWLLLL! I'm a wolf! :rolleyes:

–No, really, Nog, I understand the idea of a smokescreen– but how would everyone go about "acting wolvish" on purpose, considering it's something people generally do inadvertently? And I should think that in practice actual wolves might well be able to turn such a tactic around to make it *easier* for them to signal to each other.

Anyway, I have to go, but I'll be back later.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

As Rune considered Nogrod's suggestion, whilst attempting to get over the shock of Kath's death and the destruction of a wonderful fountain, he became painfully aware of how much he disliked recounting his own experiences in third person.

Anyways, I think it is an interesting proposal that Nogrod has put forth, but my initial reaction was the same as Nerwen's... How does one act wolfish? By making fake freudian slips, by howling at the moon?

[Boromir88]

Boro awoke this morning with a terrible chest cold which left him without much of a voice. And even making it worse was waking up and seeing the mauling of a woman they called Kath. Such beauty gone to waste, what a shame.

*RL reason, no not sick. Woke up and my internet was down, currently at lunch but have limitted access, so here comes my one likely quick post for the day, and hopefully internet decides it wants to work soon.*

Seeing as it was Kath targeted, the only assumption one can make is they are targetting and eliminating beauty. Wolves are naturally disgusted by beauty.

So would this make the next target...

Nerwen who has a sort of feisty beauty and attraction?

Possibly Greenie or Pom who have a rare and appealing cuteness in their faces?

Rune and Shasta are radiating beautiful strength and Skip really looks good in hats.

Nogrod is rugged, rustic charm, which could also be beautiful to many.

Then there's the pinnacle of beauty in, sally...surely if she's not a wolf, it would be a shame to ruin such perfect...beauty. There is a shortage of that in the world.

Then MCR and Coppermirror, who I have such little knowledge and awareness of, but surely there is a beauty existing with them as well.

What a darn attractive bunch of people...and therefor, the wolves must be seeking to elminate their own rivals? Hmm...

The only interesting point of note, is one of Nogrod's comments about signals and Nerwen's blatant howl...Well, hard to say what's going on there, Nerwen and Nogrod would both be dashingly beautiful enough to play such a game (as no doubt I would too). Sadly, my time is nearly up so I have to go again, and in the best ways that I can, today...going to vote:

++Nerwen

Do, I think Nerwen wolf would howl as she did? Meh. Probably not, but it's no different than any other shot in the dark reason.

[Coppermirror]

I need to vote soon, but four people haven't posted in this thread yet, and there hasn't been a lot of discussion. I'll look at the people who have posted so far:

Nogrod: Has some ideas to discuss, wants to stir the pot. I don't know enough about his playing style to know whether his tone and style are normal for him. I don't want to vote for him because he's the first poster and was willing to get the conversation going.

MCR: Wrote a stylish in-character segment. If it reflects her actual views, it might indicate she's going to pursue an especially non-co-operative strategy, which would be interesting to see, if so. But it might be very good cover for a wolf. It's her first game, so I won't vote for her on the first Day without better suspicions than this.

Pom: Seems bright and makes good observations. I don't want to vote for them.

Nerwen: Made a good joke! But in paranoia-vision, was that good joke a handy way to say "I really am a wolf, so don't kill me" to the wolves? I don't want to vote for someone who makes a good joke like that, but can't rule her out on those grounds.

Rune: Brief post, makes a quick mention of his opinion about Nogrod's proposal.

Boromir: Had RL problems delaying him. Writes an amusing post and decides to vote for Nerwen, although he seems to have find a point interesting in Nogrod's posts too, on the topic of signals. I can't seem to find that bit.

Greenie, Shasta, Sally, Skip Spence: aren't here yet. Do they know the game is running? Out of these four I've only played with Shasta and Sally before and don't know anything about the other two.

I am really loath to vote for someone who hasn't shown up. If they did know the game is on, leaving things this late is suspicious. If they didn't know, then I don't want to vote for them, but I have no way of knowing which it is. I'm also loath to select my vote only from among the people who have shown up in a timely manner, as doing that seems unfair. This is difficult.

[Coppermirror]

I have to go, and so I am going to vote

++ Rune

because he posted fairly late on, and kept his post short and without much of a contribution to the discussion. In other words, it looked very safe and hard to respond to. There's very little else to go on, so I'm picking him because his post looked the most as if it fits my idea of what a sensible wolf would do.

I am still suspicious of the four who haven't shown up yet. I think it's worth considering the next Day that some of them might have been avoiding posting until late toDay so that they could escape being considered as voting choices. That doesn't help the village.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I seem to have made a calculation error regarding deadline, so I will have to cast a quick vote without much analysis, or even having made a proper contribution my self... I do apologize.

++Pomegranate

It is a shot in the dark.

I do not wish to vote for Nogrod or Boromir, I like them. I do not wish to vote for a an inexperienced villager on the first day. I do not wish to start a bandwagon. I do not wish to make retaliation votes. And finally I do not wish to vote for people who had not said a thing. That leaves me with precious few voting options at this given hour...

If I was to make a case against Pomegranate, I would say that while her posts are reasonable enough... She should really follow her own advice more and try to kick-start the conversation in this village (if she really think we need information more than the wolves).

Yup a pretty weak case, but as I said, it is a shot in the dark vote.

[Coppermirror]

Dropping in quickly again, I think there may be a problem with my previous post, as I didn't put my vote on a separate line. I am going to go back to edit it, but only to put the line in.

[Nogrod]

I thought I'd have a page or two to read... well, it seems not. :(

It fits well with my busy day though so actully I'm happy about it, but gamewise this is just one of the worst D1's ever - if not the worse, like what, 14 posts the whole Day? (Okay, I've done myself only two so I admit being one to blame with everyone else)

I did call Greenie and she is not probably able to get to the computer before the DL toDay. Just FYI.

Okay. I'll give the little we have some thought and try to make my mind on it.

[MCRmyGirl4eva]

I seem to be having difficult making a decision as well. I've looked through at others' viewpoints, and they all seem reasonable. However, I've got to agree with Coppermirror. Rune gave little to the discussion, and his post was quite short.

How does one act wolfish? Fake Freudian slips? Howl at the moon?

This seems as though it could be a cover, a way to hide his own wolfishness. So, my vote is for

++Rune

[Nogrod]

Well, just an initial thought first. It is a generic problem of D1's that what you have is more or less little or nothing to go for. We have done some heroic voting based on sound reasoning on D1's as well, but that would require a couple of pages of posting and really finding something fishy from how people go with their posting.

The most common way to catch a wolf on D1 is - on top of catastrophical slips, early given seer-dreams, or just pure luck - is finding out them revealing a relationship of some sort to their mates. But with the wolves in as dark as we are with whom to vote there is no such a thing to be observed as there is not that behaviour. And sadly we can't even use toDay's voting later on as a treasury for information as there probably isn't any here - unless some of the wolves did find each other last Night, which I think is possible but not too probable, if I understood the rules correctly.

That said - and here's my second thought for the moment. Of those posted I could say that Nerwen's "howl" and Rune's emphasis on his vote being "a shot in the dark" look the most plausible candidates for the wolves trying to signal each other. But that is sadly little to go for.

So to read then...

EDIT: X'd with MCR

[Nogrod]

Thanks for pointing this out MCR.my initial reaction was the same as Nerwen's... How does one act wolfish? By making fake freudian slips, by howling at the moon?
Now here's Nerwen earlier: HOOWWLLLL! I'm a wolf!
So if there is any calling for mates going on in here, then this looks the most promising one.

But it could as well be joking when there is very little to say on any other issue with such low posting thus far. To be fair, I'd hate to vote Rune based on this as it is such a long time I've played with him and there are already two votes for him.

So let me promise the second time I'll get into reading. There's not that much of it to be done I couldn't finally make it. :rolleyes:

[Nogrod]

Okay. Here's my take at the moment - and I do hope people have posted meanwhile...

Rune - the best shot for someone who was caught trying to signal a possible mate in some serious way - the reference to howling (for Nerwen) or the underlining of his vote being a shot in the dark (to any wolf as wolves normally don't "shoot in the dark when voting). Then again, that would be outrageously blunt and daring putting that many hints into his posts in a village where people don't post too much...

Nerwen - the best shot for someone trying to signal mates in a joking manner. Could be, could be not.

Pom - the following could be read as being a little fishy (answering to my discussion starter -proposal that we acted like wolves) I personally think that, given how small the amount of villagers there is compared to the amount of wolves, a technique which will keep us from having something to analyse today and tomorrow could prove to be pretty disastrous. The wolves need information, but I think we need information more.Being concerned about a tactics givin us less information when we indeed will have more or less none whatev er way we play might suggest she looks at the situation from the POV of a wolf, like: she hasn't realised how deep in trouble we are and only pays attention to the problem the wolves face: lack of information (as she does in her next sentence...).

Boro - RL problems... still makes a neat post in a way (and makes me smile). I'd hate to vote him on that ground - even if a wolf-Boro would probably play exactly like that. Which idea actually makes me second-quessing my initial feeling about not voting him. :rolleyes:

MCR - her first game, right? Not going to vote someone who plays her first game on D1. Basic WW-game etiquette.

Coppermirror - her/his(?) second game and I've never played with her/him. NOt going to vote, especially as s/he seems active and thoughtful.

Greenie
Shasta
sally
skip spence


No see on any of the four. I might even entertain voting one of them but it would feel stupid in a way. But then again, why vote with bad reasons for someone who actually plays ratther than someone who doesn't play?

[Nogrod]

Mathematically one of the four non-posters would be a wolf. Then again the wolves don't "forget" to post in general on D1 as often as ordos do. Some may use that intentionally as a getaway, but let's say that is just bad gaming and should diminish any victory achieved in that way.

So I'm voting for somone who has posted.

Anyone else around to vote?

Boro -> Nerwen
Copper -> Rune
Rune -> Pom
MCR -> Rune2


I'm actually thinking of creating a draw and let the dice decide unless someone makes me think otherwise. Rune would be a tad too obvious to be a wolf (but could be one).

So Nerwen might have tried to signal a mate or not (it's soo 50-50 to say), Pom might have just revealed she was thinking this so heavily from the POV of the wolves she kind of didn't realise what the position of us innocents is - or then she just didn't tihnk of it enough...

[Nogrod]

Btw. if someomne just appears out from nowhere to decide the voting I would put that person under some serious scrutiny on D2.

And I'll tie it.

++ Pom


Boro -> Nerwen
Copper -> Rune
Rune -> Pom
MCR -> Rune2
Nog -> Pom2

[MCRmyGirl4eva]

Nogrod, That's very good thinking, and since we still have the no-shows, it complicates the positions of the players. After all, we have less evidence to look at and fewer people to choose from. Hopefully, they'll realize it's time to post. I mean, what is the likelihood of all four of their computers crashing? Hmmm?

[Kath]

It had been a quiet Day within the village. Few had spoken yet those who had could neither agree nor trust in their decisions. Finally though, two villagers were led to the gallows that had been hastily put together by the site of Kath's vicious murder.

"Well which shall we hang?" Nogrod asked.

"Both of 'em!" Came an unidentified voice in the crowd.

Pom frowned from her position in the noose.

"That's a bit bloodthirsty." She said. "Suspicious if you ask me."

"Well nobody did." Rune snapped, somewhat testy at all the deliberating still going on while his neck was on the line.

Most of the villagers were still milling around in confusion. Kath had said one villager could be lynched each Day - but there were two up on the gallows. How was this to be decided?

Even as they asked this question among themselves it was answered for them. A sudden gust of wind blew the waters of the fountain into a great river aimed directly at the gallows. The villagers closed their eyes against the spray of the water and when they opened them again ... Pom had been washed clear of the gallows, the noose shredded around her neck.

The entire village turned to stare at Rune. His fate had clearly been decided.

"You fools!" He cried passionately. "You ever-damned fools!"

But it was too late. With a snap the trapdoor opened beneath him and he fell. As the rope pulled taut and the last breath left his body the villagers held their breath. But there was no change, no sudden release of evil. Rune simply swayed in the breeze, an ordinary innocent villager to the last

~~~

Dead:
Kath (mod)
Rune (innocent villager)

Living:
Nerwen
Greenie
Shasta
sally
Boro
Pom
Coppermirror
skip spence
MCR
Nogrod

If Shasta, skip, sally and Greenie do not post toMorrow they will be modfired. If Pom and Nerwen don't vote toMorrow they will be modfired.

Seer please send me your dream. Wolves please send me your dreams and lists.

[MCRmyGirl4eva]

I may not be able to post much this weekend. I will if I can, but I may only be able to make brief posts. Some previously unforeseen circumstances have arisen, so if I am unable to post on Friday, Saturday, or Sunday assume that my character is indoors fixing the fletching on her silver tipped arrows. :smokin:

Sunday is the most questionable day for me. Friday and Saturday, I may be able to at least contribute something. I thought it would only be fair to warn you before going AWOL though.

[Kath]

It was a quiet Night within the village. Strange lights flickered over the houses, brightening at one particular door. The wolves howled but their voices seemed oddly muted. Eventually the howls drifted away into the silence.

The villagers woke with a mix of dread and resignation. One by one they left their homes and took unwilling steps toward the fountain - the scene of two deaths so far. Upon reaching the water the villagers paused, unsure. There were no bodies, no red stains, no sign that evil had triumphed last Night.

"Should we ... search the houses?" Greenie asked.

"Or the wells?" Boro offered.

"What about the woods?" Nerwen suggested.

Some time later the various search parties reappeared.

"Anything?" sally and MCR had been left at the fountain in case of further messages from the Valar.

Nobody had found anything odd in any area of the village. Unsure, but pleased at the lack of further death, the villagers went about their Day.

~ ~ ~

Dead:
Kath (mod)
Rune (innocent villager)

Living:
Nerwen
Greenie
Shasta
sally
Boro
Pom
Coppermirror
skip spence
MCR
Nogrod

If Shasta, skip, sally and Greenie do not post toDay they will be modfired. If Pom and Nerwen don't vote toDay they will be modfired.

Villagers start posting.

PS: MCR messages like your one above need to go on the Admin thread not the Game thread. :)

[Nogrod]

No kill last Night and no ranger to stop it...During the Nights when the wolves do not know their fellows each wolf sends a list of three names to the Mod in preferential order. If the same name appears on more than one list that villager is killed. If no name appears more than once there is no kill. When two wolves are aware of each other they jointly send a list and the lone wolf sends a list and the same thing happens. Once all the wolves know each other the kill proceeds as usual.
NOw that is either a darn bad luck for the wolves (they managed to post 3 X 3 names without a single one colliding with the other aka. covering 9 out of 10) oer then one or two wolves are really lackluster... Which brings to my mind the idea of lynching Skip Spence toDay unless he doesn't appear toDay when he will be modfired anyway.

But sure this feels like there is at least one wolf - if not two - who are very inactive. Or, like I said, they had a ridiculously bad luck.

But yeah, cool for us.

Although I'd like to see rather more people posting and voting toDay as yesterDay was just plain ridiculous: it's D2 and we're still on page 1!

[Nogrod]

Btw. just a question Kath: concernig this quote of the rules When two wolves are aware of each other they jointly send a list and the lone wolf sends a list and the same thing happens.Does this mean the wolves have less chances of killing someone when two wolves know each other than when none knows each other? Like in the first case there are only two lists of three to pick up one common choice while in the latter there would be three lists of three to pick a common denominator?

I mean that might explain the no-kill toNight better...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I apologize for sleeping yesterDay away. Comes from all the exhausting labor I do, you know.

Does this mean the wolves have less chances of killing someone when two wolves know each other than when none knows each other? Like in the first case there are only two lists of three to pick up one common choice while in the latter there would be three lists of three to pick a common denominator?

I actually mentioned that on the admin thread, actually. :p

[Coppermirror]

YesterDay was a shambles, with so few posts. We don't have a lot to go on from that. At least with there being no Night kill this time, there's a little less time pressure.

Day 1 - Innocent lynched. Village 7, Wolves 3.
Night 2 - No death. Village 7, Wolves 3.

The worst case scenario from this point on is:

Day 2 - Innocent lynched. Village 6, wolves 3.
Night 3 - Innocent killed. Village 5, wolves 3.
Day 3 - Innocent lynched. Village 4, wolves 3.
Night 4 - Innocent killed. Village 3, wolves 3. Village loses, wolves win.

...Actually, I see I'm wrong. This doesn't give us less time pressure. If there had been a Night kill, we'd simply have lost at the end of Day 3. rather than on Night 4. We have to catch a wolf toDay or tomorrow. There's also a chance that the wolves will kill one of their own, but that chance reduces as time goes on, and judging by the lack of a Night kill, it's reasonably likely that two of them are in contact. Or it could be as Nogrod suggested: maybe at least one wolf is in among the people who didn't show and are at risk of being mod-fired. Statistically there are good odds that at least one of those at risk of mod-fire is a wolf.

People who didn't post yesterDay, even if you won't have time for a proper post until later in the Day, if you see this thread, could you make a quick post early on, if possible? That way we'll know whether you're still at risk of mod-fire. And players who didn't vote, could you tell us whether you're going to be able to vote toDay?

Risk of mod-fire
Those who didn't post: A Little Green, Sally, Skip Spence.
Those who didn't vote: Pom, Nerwen.

If some players really are going to get mod-fired, I'm not sure what the best plan is for toDay. There are too many variables here, not knowing who's going to show up. I'd like to be able to work out the odds of whether Nog's suggestion of possibly lynching Skip Spence would be to our advantage.

So yes, players at risk of mod-fire, please post to this thread ASAP, even if it's just to say "I'll be back later to vote". Nog, you said you'd spoken to A little Green, right? Did she say anything about whether she would be able to play toDay?

[Nogrod]

I actually mentioned that on the admin thread, actually. :pI did sign in at the last possible moment and have basically read only Kath's rules-post from the admin thread. So I'm in no way disputing what you say and were you not true in that comment... it would be quite odd indeed as you'd get caught of that - and why fake such an easily checkable thing?

But my question is, why do you feel the need to bring that up? With a smiley?

[Nogrod]

People who didn't post yesterDay, even if you won't have time for a proper post until later in the Day, if you see this thread, could you make a quick post early on, if possible? That way we'll know whether you're still at risk of mod-fire. And players who didn't vote, could you tell us whether you're going to be able to vote toDay?I could'n agree more with this.

And Shasta has already shown himself... Greenie knows the game has begun and will most probably post something toDay - it is just that it is about 2 am here in Finland (and I'm going to sleep as well) so it might take some time she's going to be around.

Skip and Sally I know nothing about, but have the vague idea Sally posted something on the admin thread (or somewhere) and thence I suggested Skip. I might be wrong with Sally though and could suggest her as well, unless they don't turn out (and needs to check that tomorrow - not toMorrow aka. D3 - whether Sally has made a comment on being around or not).

And this later thought that two wolves know each other and thusly their choices are less likely to succeed must be bore in mind. It sounds odd indeed, but if it is the case, then we might have all our wolves active... which would sound more reasonable indeed.


There is sadly little to go for from yesterDay both because of the low posting but also because the wolves most probably didn't know each others - or only two of them knew each other. So not much to delve into there by the way of helping a mate there or something like that we could try to catch on.

But it (yesterda's voting & relations of people) should be looked after anyway as there is little else to do while waiting others to post. But I'm off to sleep now. See you later toDay...

[Pomegranate]

My apologies as well. More time, more energy, more awareness of the game going on toDay.

I'm trying to see through Nog's point about me to figure out if it actually makes sense. The idea of having a tie up until last minute and seeing if someone would come and save me or Rune is reasonable enough - though I can see the point only if we believe that some of the wolves already knew each other.

when we indeed will have more or less none whatev er way we play

Would you mind elaborating that a bit, Nog? I'm not really sure what you're trying to get to. What I did mean was that if we'd all deliberately try to seem not innocent, that leads to this being a good excuse explaining anything you've done on day 1 ("Yes, I was just trying to act wolvish so that they'd try to dream of me and would go wrong!"). Yes, I do agree that day 1's are most of the time pretty unproductive (and that this one was such in particular, and I admit I was a part of the problem), but at least you're going to have to take responsibility of whatever you do that day.

And yes, you were starting substantive discussion, and I reacted to it by stating my opinion, which is also a part of starting a discussion ;)

Okay, what do we have...

Coppermirror: I think he (or is it she?) makes good observations by the little data there is. Follows on Boro's doubt about Nerwen's howl, yet doesn't vote for her. Is this a wolf protecting potential packmate, or just someone who doesn't want to vote based on a joking comment?

Boro: I feel a bit doubtful about his lack of internet leading to long enough, yet unsubstantial post - you had time to go through us all, but not go through what had been said? Then again, there was not a lot to analyse, and Boro both brings up the case against Nerwen and votes for her, which raises his points in my head since it is a relatively valid point (as much as anything is valid on day 1) and thus he risks the lynching of a potential pack mate. Then again (again), there's nothing that will make me trust Boro anything more than a bit :P

This brings me to Nerwen who did something that would definitely make the wolves consider her being a packmate, yet also something that could've just as easily been done by an innocent. She does bring up a point I was wondering about myself, the whole idea of how does one act wolvishly. I'm more inclined to be curious about the reactions to her than about herself, there is not enough to say.

And Nog. Who was pretty much keeping the whole game alive yesterday. As I said earlier, there's bits I don't understand about his point about me, and in general since I tend to follow his thought well, since it usually is logical, that worries me. But then again, it might just be me having concentration problems, wouldn't be surprised. Waiting for elaboration.

MCR is a hard one to say much about, I want to hear more of her before being able to make a point for/against, as she is a first-timer.

[Nogrod]

the wolves most probably didn't know each others - or only two of them knew each other.Well, obviously one of the two is true as they didn't manage to kill anyone in a village with no ranger to deny their kill...

[satansaloser2005]

I am terribly sorry about yesterDay, everyone. I have had a horrific week thus far, and I only remembered the game started because my prince had asked me to tell our charming moddess of his own absence. Sadly, tonight and tomorrow will likely be light on WW as well, but I shall do my best to make up for it thereafter.

I suppose I should probably go read the thread now....

[Nogrod]

when we indeed will have more or less none whatev er way we play
Would you mind elaborating that a bit, Nog? I'm not really sure what you're trying to get to.Not at all, even if I need to try and go to sleep soonish... (happily I don't have work tomorrow at eight) :rolleyes:

The first elaboration: it of course means "when we indeed will have more or less none whatever way we play" :)

But seriously, the idea was this.

You Pom said the following: I personally think that, given how small the amount of villagers there is compared to the amount of wolves, a technique which will keep us from having something to analyse today and tomorrow could prove to be pretty disastrous. The wolves need information, but I think we need information more.And that of course was a reply to my initial discussion starter as whether we should all act wolvishly to blur the scene from the wolves from finding each other (as they would need to do that).

Now you say there you doubt the merits of the "plan" because it would "keep us from having something to analyse today and tomorrow", and "could prove to be pretty disastrous". Now thinking that the wolves don't know each other, we the villagers already are in that position that we can't deduce or argue about anything from what happened on D1 as there is (probably) no co-operation by the wolves; which is more or less the only thing we might try to catch normally.

So the question becomes, how didn't you realise that? Now if you were a wolf, that would be logical as there would have been no natural way for you to think about that situation from the POV of a villager - which is very different from a normal game indeed this time - but had only thought of it from the POV of a wolf and thus had not noticed it (probably more busy with a thought of how to find your mates which must be a stressing question to a wolf). That would actually be even more believable explanation if you've been busy and had no time to think this properly... :rolleyes:


But yeah. That was my D1 reasoning - and I admit it is thin and full of questionmarks / assumptions (which one needs to make if willing to find a wolf). It was the best I could do yesterDay. I hope we'll get more substance in toDay to make more enlightened decisions...

[Nogrod]

I suppose I should probably go read the thread now....The muffin should do that... :)

[Pomegranate]

Okay, I see your point. But I do feel that you're now thinking a bit pessimistically.

Yes, the best material we could get from a normal day 1 would be hints of collaboration. But I don't think it is only that. I think we can also see something from the "wolf-hints" and how people react to those (as I was trying to do regarding Nerwen's howl), from the way people react to discussions, to accusations etc. that tend to rise eventually when people post seriously. It is maybe not quite as tight evidence of anything, but it is something to start the game with. Which is more than nothing, and should be more than if we'd just all 'act wolvishly'.

...But I admit I didn't think it that much yesterday, it was more just 'I want more stuff to analyse and people to have to take responsibility of their posts!'

[Nogrod]

Yes, the best material we could get from a normal day 1 would be hints of collaboration. But I don't think it is only that. I think we can also see something from the "wolf-hints" and how people react to those (as I was trying to do regarding Nerwen's howl), from the way people react to discussions, to accusations etc. that tend to rise eventually when people post seriously. It is maybe not quite as tight evidence of anything, but it is something to start the game with. Which is more than nothing, and should be more than if we'd just all 'act wolvishly'.Agreed. And I'm probably just not so pessimistic. One just has to try and make people post...

And did people have more reactions to my suggestion on D1, the laying out of it would have been a nice one - and might have given us some hints as the reactions would go -but sadly there were only like so few posts yesterDay the point of it kind of melted away...

Post people, post!

C'mon! (to sleep now on my part...)

[satansaloser2005]

The muffin should do that... :)

Wait a sec. Wilwa is playing?! How did I miss that? :rolleyes:

[Galadriel55]

*proclaims loudly*

What game of 'Wolf is this, when most
Of all the players do not post?

*turns to stone in the sunlight*

[Nogrod]

Wait a sec. Wilwa is playing?! How did I miss that? :rolleyes:Sorry, I meant the Cupcake... :o

[Coppermirror]

I'm very rattled right now over a real life thing which I've just found out is almost certainly going to drink up the little bit of free time I'd intended to spend on this game. It's likely that my activity, which was not that hot anyway, is going to go down, and it's possible I may just have to drop out. I won't drop out toDay, at least. (Is this game cursed or something? Players not showing, and MCR also having real life trouble. Are we going to be most mod-fired game in history?) But if I'm still alive by Day 4 it's likely that I won't be able to do anything more than avoid getting mod-fired, and there is just no way I can be here on Day 5. I'm very sorry. I'll do my best to contribute what little I can, but my mind is not going to be on the game.

That said. *rolls up sleeves*

My impressions so far
Nog: He put a lot of effort into keeping the game going, both yesterDay and toDay. I find it hard to believe that a wolf would be going to those sorts of lengths when he could just sit back and watch nothing happen. That in itself could be a wolf strategy, but eh, I'm inclined to think that Nog is not very suspicious at the moment.
MCR: She seemed earnest and serious. She followed my vote for Rune, but for a different reason than my vote. This might, possibly, have been something she would consider a safe, non-suspicious vote. She's not going to be around much, and that worries me.
Pom: Didn't show up to vote. Seems to have reasonable content to their posts, and I do think the suggestion of looking for wolf-hints is good. Overall it seems hard to get a reading on Pom's posts.
Boro: Only one post, and with fairly little substantive content. I didn't see anything especially suspicious about it. Like so many of us, he's just got to post something more.
Nerwen: Only one post. It's quite likely she was just joking, but if she wasn't...that doesn't necessarily mean that she's a wolf. Pom touched on that point earlier, and I think it's correct. It could be a signal to wolves, but one or two people looking a little bit wolfish would actually be a reasonable, if risky, strategy on the first day, in order to attract the wolves' attention and perhaps get them to waste a dream on an ordo.
Shasta: Has said next to nothing. This is very concerning.
Sally: Likewise. And ditto to it being concerning.

The people who haven't shown up yet: worry me very much. I have no information to go on here.

It's worthwhile to analyse yesterDay's content, but that's not enough, especially as so many players weren't here or active then. Those people must talk. We need a discussion topic. What about trying to think of an overall strategy for the village, or for trying to think of what strategies the wolves are likely to be pursuing? It may not be a good idea to discuss who the wolves are likely to want to kill, though, since they're obviously in a position where their strategy has been ineffective, and we don't want to give any pointers.

[Nerwen]

To take up Pomegranate's point: as far as giving us something to analyse goes, it doesn't really matter that the wolves didn't all know each other on Day One (as we now know for certain). The usual "find people trying to protect each other" method goes out the window, sure– but, to replace that, we should be able to detect them trying to make contact/plan the kill choice. I say "should": the *real* problem is that there was so little activity yesterDay, it's statistically possible that no wolf posted at all.

On the subject of probabilities and statistics– Coppermirror, the village *always* has to catch a wolf in the first few Days. I have to tell you, new players quite often go through a phase where they tie themselves in knots over this fact, but honestly, it's just how WW works.

EDIT:X'd with Coppermirror.

[Nerwen]

So, some things from yesterDay:

#6. (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=675542&postcount=6) Let's say you are a wolf X and you need to get someone killed by the rules which say there has to be at least two votes for the kill to take place in the first place. So how do you pick your choices when the kill demands others (you don't know who they are) to think the same way? So all the "high-profile" players are more probable to enter their lists as any wolf would pick them thinking the others would think like the same... So not so much strategical discussion but trying to make the same pick other wolves would do (in your opinion). So the "obvious ones" die first.

Note, though, that this is part of an explanation of his previous post (#3) (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=675529&postcount=3), and doesn't, in context, have quite such a "now, here's the plan" look to it.

Pomegranate (#8) responds: Regarding obvious kills. No-traces should be the second pretty obvious group of targets - though, on a second thought, especially if the wolves don't know each other, there is not quite as many traces left by a kill of a loud player than there would usually be. Indeed, agree with Nog about his point on the wolves not being underhanded by the set-up of the game.
Which does have a "here's the plan" ring– to the extent of being a mark against Pom, I think. However, it's also true that the wolves did *not*, in fact, manage to co-ordinate their kill-choices last Night, so... *shrugs*

[Coppermirror]

Still nothing from Skip Spence and A Little Green, although it seems likely that A Little Green will show up later. On the bright side, it looks as if all the people here today will vote.

What isn't good is that so far the following people have said very little: Boromir, Sally, Shasta, Skip, and A Little Green. (Although to be fair, Boromir's one post did at least have a vote in it.) That's half of our number. How can we seriously try to pick out wolves when half the village have said so little that we can examine? We can look at the people who have posted so far, on the grounds that Pom and Nerwen and others have been discussing, although even for those the conversation has not exactly been raging away. It's come to the point of having to weigh up the problem of only considering half of the village vs the problem of including the other half as well but having no evidence to judge them by. I have no idea what we should do. Both options are distasteful. I'll try to think about it some more, but for now I've got to go to sleep.

On the subject of probabilities and statistics– Coppermirror, the village *always* has to catch a wolf in the first few Days. I have to tell you, new players quite often go through a phase where they tie themselves in knots over this fact, but honestly, it's just how WW works.

Yep, that must be true. This village is a particularly small one, though, so I do find it helpful to know exactly what the limits we're working with are.

[Nerwen]

Another thing I find quite interesting is that, although my "howling" post yesterDay occasioned a good deal of comment, I only got one vote. This suggests that there were indeed wolves amongst those present, and that they weren't willing to try lynching me, just in case.

–It would be nice if this logic worked the opposite way, to clear Boro, since he jumped in and voted me right away– but there is always the possibility that a Borowolf had dreamed me already. And yes: this is reasoning from my knowledge of my own innocence. Sometimes you have to...

[Pomegranate]

Partially I mentioned the obvious kills - the post that sounds like "here's the plan" - to get rid of having only one of that kind of plan posts. If there would've been just Nog's post, I felt like it would only be too obvious for the wolves to follow that logic - however, if they would need to decide between several plan-like things, or if we would've got some proper discussion on the topic, it would be less probable for them to get the night-kill right. And they didn't - whether it was partially due to what I said, don't know, but we should be happy for the extra time.

And Coppermirror, I feel your pain. Cannot just keep shouting "People, contribute", but it's really hard to do anything with just the few of us commenting.

[A Little Green]

Ouch. So sorry for the no-show yesterDay! And today I was at work until just now which is why I haven't been here.

Anyhow - there are two people that particularly interest me at the moment, namely Nog and Pom, and their interactions.

But my question is, why do you feel the need to bring that up? With a smiley?Nog gets quite unreasonable with Shasta first, on a post that I read as a completely normal remark (the sort I could easily picture Nog himself making). Seems jumpy.

Now, Nog's point against Pom is the following:
Now you say there you doubt the merits of the "plan" because it would "keep us from having something to analyse today and tomorrow", and "could prove to be pretty disastrous". Now thinking that the wolves don't know each other, we the villagers already are in that position that we can't deduce or argue about anything from what happened on D1 as there is (probably) no co-operation by the wolves; which is more or less the only thing we might try to catch normally.

So the question becomes, how didn't you realise that? Now if you were a wolf, that would be logical as there would have been no natural way for you to think about that situation from the POV of a villager - which is very different from a normal game indeed this time - but had only thought of it from the POV of a wolf and thus had not noticed it (probably more busy with a thought of how to find your mates which must be a stressing question to a wolf). That would actually be even more believable explanation if you've been busy and had no time to think this properly...This is actually a good point (especially for Day 1), regardless of that I disagree with Nog's premise that trying to confuse the wolves by having everyone "act wolvishly" (whatever that means) would benefit the village.

The interaction becomes even more interesting when Nerwen raises the point of the two of them giving "here's the plan" -posts; Pom responds with
Partially I mentioned the obvious kills - the post that sounds like "here's the plan" - to get rid of having only one of that kind of plan posts. If there would've been just Nog's post, I felt like it would only be too obvious for the wolves to follow that logic - however, if they would need to decide between several plan-like things, or if we would've got some proper discussion on the topic, it would be less probable for them to get the night-kill right. And they didn't - whether it was partially due to what I said, don't know, but we should be happy for the extra time. Wait a second - this looks as if Pom was working under an assumption that Nog is a wolf, and yet she doesn't really seem to suspect him.

[Boromir88]

This is actually a good point (especially for Day 1), regardless of that I disagree with Nog's premise that trying to confuse the wolves by having everyone "act wolvishly" (whatever that means) would benefit the village.


Well, it's funny, because when I became aware of what I was I thought...huh probably the best thing I could do to help would be to look like a wolf trying to signal another one, and therefor at least waste one (possible more) of their efforts in finding packmates. I also thought if Nog wasn't a wolf he would try the same, therefor it was a mental check to myself "don't jump on anyone looking wolvish early on, especially Nog. Wait and see what happens."

With my sickly interweb fairies Day 1, I couldn't do that trickery, and I'm not even going to bother with it now. But anyway, I understood what Nog was saying there about everyone acting wolvish, I just think what is the point in saying it right at the start? I mean we all have our own roles and responsibilities, all are going to be different, so play them the way you want, right?

Now Nerwen, I saw it as an obviously sarcastic howl response to Nog saying we should all act wolvish and like we're giving signals to confuse the wolves. I mean it was obvious, and might look like it goes against my "don't immediately jump on anyone," but it was going on after a very limitted hunch, gut-feeling it was a sarcastic howl from Nerwen and trying to prove a point to discredit Nog's "we should all act wolvish" as silly. Considering my pixies are feeling better, and I'm not limitted to a 40-minute lunch break today, it's really not something I'm going to harp on.

I honestly think with how long the sign-ups took and to start now, most people simply forgot and didn't remember. Nothing serious, and certainly nothing malicious about the poorly slow and no-shows from Day 1. It's somewhat good too when you've had a moderately busy and stressful week to see "oh I don't have 3 pages to read through? Awesome."

[Pomegranate]

Greenie: I was working under the assumption that there are wolves around that don't know each other, yet need to hit the same targets, and thus would react to an outspoken "plan" - not knowing whether it is from a fellow wolf or just something that someone says out - hoping that either Nog were a wolf and followed his own plan, or if that wasn't the case, that others would pick the same plan as well. I don't know if I suspect Nog, until now I've been just very happy that he's around, but if other people are starting to wake up I'll give him more consideration. I agree with Greenie about him jumping on Shasta, and I'm not sure whether I like his approach towards myself. I'll do some re-reading in a bit and see if that leads to something.

[Nerwen]

I agree with Greenie about him jumping on Shasta
"Agree"? He did jump on Shasta– no question. I wonder why, though.

And speaking of our resident psychic, I'd say the failed Night-kill points away from him, anyway. I mean, no doubt even clairvoyant wolves have their off-Nights, but still...

[Nerwen]

Anyway, I'm going to have to vote shortly, and I've still got little or nothing to go on...

[Nerwen]

Well, then–

++Pomegranate

Because of what I said before, plus her subsequent explanations seem a little strained, perhaps. Barely more than a shot in the dark, though. I'd been hoping for something a bit more concrete to go on, but I can't hang around forever, so this will have to do.

Good luck!

[Nogrod]

It is interesting how there seems to be a collective meme around that I "jumped" on Shasta when what I asked from him was: But my question is, why do you feel the need to bring that up? With a smiley?Maybe I have a different idea of what "jumping on someone" means, or something? :confused:

Oh, I had to check how that developed: Greenie said I was "unreasonable" and "jumpy", then Pom agreed (!?) with Greenie about me jumping on Shasta and next Nerwen says that I "did jump on Shasta - no question", and wondered aloud why I might have done it...

And all that because I asked Shasta why did he post the comment he posted, with a smiley, that is.



Okay two things on the issue: one general point, and another one as a way of explanation as you clerly haven't understood what I was after in there.

The general point: you can see how nicely suspicions or any kind of memes / talking points spread like wildfire even in a small village - and the connection between the original point ("I was jumpy") can turn totally around ("I jumped on someone") while everybody agrees on the meme itself.

What that in turn implies is either malice (wolves involved) or lazyness (one just parrots what one thought someone else said)... both ways produce loads of innocent lynches.

The explanation point: Now that was Shasta's first post in the whole game, and what he said was sorry for sleeping D1 and then with a quote of what I had said earlier, that he had mentioned the same game-mechanics point in the discussion thread... Now I mean yes, you could make a post like that, sure, whatever your role is, but to me it looked a bit too much like concentrating more to his image in our eyes than trying to do something. And we know the wolves need to take care of that. And I think the smiley made me suspect that post more as it looked like a not genuine gaiety or lightheartedness but somewhat forced...

Well, that said. I was just asking why he posted that. I mean he could have posted something of some substance, any comment on the game, anything, something, but all he did was that. And of course I was hoping for a reaction from him. Sadly that has not come, at least yet.

Which all doesnt mean I think he is a wolf, or my top candidate for lycantrophy either. But when there are only little things going on one must try every possibility to see how people react and what they do when asked things.

[Pomegranate]

Haha, I feel that my explanations must seem a bit strained, but I'd like to keep a conversation going and there's not really a lot to say in this game. Where are you people? Yes, yesterday some people might've just forgotten, but now we've had appearances from Boro, Shasta, sally and Greenie, none of them leading to a lot of discussion. This is an easy game to hide in the quiet crowd. The question is, are these the kind of players that would do that? Perhaps, unless they have another reasons for their quietness. It doesn't make a good game, though.

[Nogrod]

Bleurgh!

My keyboard has gone partly crazy> I must have hit some queer key/combination *see!( as my special marks come from totally odd keys and some have disappeared totally like _ aka. the questionmark...

Does anyone know what kind of combinations change the keys_

*I\ll try closing the machine first though(

[A Little Green]

I'm back!

Well, it's funny, because when I became aware of what I was I thought...huh probably the best thing I could do to help would be to look like a wolf trying to signal another one, and therefor at least waste one (possible more) of their efforts in finding packmates. I also thought if Nog wasn't a wolf he would try the same, therefor it was a mental check to myself "don't jump on anyone looking wolvish early on, especially Nog. Wait and see what happens."Ah. I see the point now. I was thinking more about that outlook (and especially talking about it out loud early on) creating quite a sweet counter-argument for a wolf against pretty much any accusation: "I was just trying to look like a wolf to confuse the real wolves!" Which would lead to things getting even more muddled up than they already are, which is why I didn't buy the argument.

Greenie: I was working under the assumption that there are wolves around that don't know each other, yet need to hit the same targets, and thus would react to an outspoken "plan" - not knowing whether it is from a fellow wolf or just something that someone says out - hoping that either Nog were a wolf and followed his own plan, or if that wasn't the case, that others would pick the same plan as well.That makes sense - but seems like a lot of plotting to go into a single "here's the plan" -post. Was the whole post written just to confuse the wolvsies or were you going to say the content anyway and only formulated it in a wolf-confusing way?

Re. Nog and Shasta: Nog, what I was getting at (I can't speak for Pom and Nerwen) was that I think you grossly overreacted to a completely normal statement. It's like asking why somebody posted "Back now, had a long day at work! :)" and even added a smiley to the end. Looks slightly like paranoia to me. Then again, one could argue that you need to be paranoid to have any success whatsoever in catching wolves in this game. So, to flip flop like a proper Lommy (someone has to fill her shoes, right?) I don't agree with Nog's point about Shasta but it doesn't necessarily make me suspect him more.

[A Little Green]

Also -Bleurgh!

My keyboard has gone partly crazy> I must have hit some queer key/combination *see!( as my special marks come from totally odd keys and some have disappeared totally like _ aka. the questionmark...

Does anyone know what kind of combinations change the keys_

*I\ll try closing the machine first though(This cracked me up and then I felt horrible because computer trouble is never fun. Hope you manage to solve it!

[Nogrod]

Greenie: Why don't you call this jumpy / jumping on me?"Agree"? He did jump on Shasta– no question. I wonder why, though.I mean it is much more straightforwards, and in a way is even trying to create a vague feeling of suspicion while herself not actually stating anything or committing herself to anything? I mean that does look somewhat suspicious as wolves often do that kind of thing to notch some general memes forwards by just giving them slight punches while not committing them too openly.

I only asked "why did you post that, with a smiley?" I didn't add that "me wonders why he did it, me wonders..." :) - or add to any pre-existing suspicion or talk of him.

But anyway. This feels like making a mountain out of a molehill. I'm going to comment this the next time only if someone tries to lynch me for it (and then I'd be willing to hear first how anything anyone reads from that question is something a wolf would do in the first place :rolleyes:)

[Nogrod]

Hope you manage to solve it!Thanks. Yeah, I shot the laptop off and then on again. Darn shortcut -key combinations...

[A Little Green]

This feels like making a mountain out of a molehill.I agree. The same might also apply to your point about Nerwen, though - I read what she said as simply not understanding your "jump" (for want of a better word) on Shasta, which I find quite logical seeing as I didn't understand it either. Yeah, I shot the laptop off and then on again.Freudian slip? :D

[Nogrod]

Okay. I needs be off for a while now.

Hard to say anything with such a low posting game - and it is kind of unfair also that those I kind of feel the most suspicious are Pom and Nerwen who both have contributed by not only posting but also making points.

Coppermirror has posted quite a lot while in the end saying pretty little (as what comes to suspecting anyone) - which is basic good-werewolf -playing or innocent's lack of good points to make.

Boro has had RL problems, but still I think he is too much talking nice (or even defending others) to my taste as that always feels pretty scary. You all know the "love you during the Day and stab you at Night"...

Greenie is more or less the opposite of Boro which should make me feel safer with her. Which is aleways a problem as it is so hard for me not to suspect her (she's both fooled & got me killed too many times). But yes, to begin with I think her more innocent than not just because it would sound mad for a wolf, in this kind of quiet village, to come forwards with suspicions flying. Too much publicity, too many eyes looking at you...

I might even vote for a submarine that is not going to be mod-fired... just to keep those who play around.

[Nogrod]

Talking about Freudian slips?Which is aleways a problem:D

[satansaloser2005]

No kill last Night and no ranger to stop it...NOw that is either a darn bad luck for the wolves (they managed to post 3 X 3 names without a single one colliding with the other aka. covering 9 out of 10) oer then one or two wolves are really lackluster... Which brings to my mind the idea of lynching Skip Spence toDay unless he doesn't appear toDay when he will be modfired anyway.

But sure this feels like there is at least one wolf - if not two - who are very inactive. Or, like I said, they had a ridiculously bad luck.

Truth. I actually need to have another look at the rules to see precisely how the wolves' kill choice works, because....the odds of them all picking different people are insane. Of course they could have picked each other, but then wouldn't they- no, no, I'm going to read the admin thread later and I shall comment more on last Night's events at that time. In any case, whether by luck or laziness, we have all risen to see another Day, and I shall count this as a blessing.


I actually mentioned that on the admin thread, actually.

Actually. :Merisu:


YesterDay was a shambles, with so few posts. We don't have a lot to go on from that. At least with there being no Night kill this time, there's a little less time pressure.

Day 1 - Innocent lynched. Village 7, Wolves 3.
Night 2 - No death. Village 7, Wolves 3.

The worst case scenario from this point on is:

Day 2 - Innocent lynched. Village 6, wolves 3.
Night 3 - Innocent killed. Village 5, wolves 3.
Day 3 - Innocent lynched. Village 4, wolves 3.
Night 4 - Innocent killed. Village 3, wolves 3. Village loses, wolves win.

...Actually, I see I'm wrong. This doesn't give us less time pressure. If there had been a Night kill, we'd simply have lost at the end of Day 3. rather than on Night 4. We have to catch a wolf toDay or tomorrow. There's also a chance that the wolves will kill one of their own, but that chance reduces as time goes on, and judging by the lack of a Night kill, it's reasonably likely that two of them are in contact. Or it could be as Nogrod suggested: maybe at least one wolf is in among the people who didn't show and are at risk of being mod-fired. Statistically there are good odds that at least one of those at risk of mod-fire is a wolf.

Your mathulations make me happy, as it means I don't have to do the thinking necessary to do them myself (because, quite frankly, I have neither the time nor the energy today). However, Wolfphry's Law dictates that whoever can be modfired, will be modfired, and rarely will this help the village. Let's continue to hope that one of the wolves is idle (at this point, is that just Skip?), but let us by no means assume that is the case.

Also, things always look bad, especially in a small village. It both is and is not as bad as it seems. Play the game. Hunt the wolves. Let the numbers speak for themselves as the Days progress and then have a panic attack about numbers. Right now three wolves are not as big a threat as you might think (well, they are, but it's not exactly dire circumstances at this point).


If some players really are going to get mod-fired, I'm not sure what the best plan is for toDay. There are too many variables here, not knowing who's going to show up. I'd like to be able to work out the odds of whether Nog's suggestion of possibly lynching Skip Spence would be to our advantage.

There are three wolves. If we have no candidates toward Day's end, then fine, sure, let's kill someone who is going to die anyway to in a way buy ourselves more time, but even if Skip is a wolf, he has packmates, and they must likewise be killed. I'd rather go out in a blaze of accidentally nuking the village than to kill villagers in their sleep and hope that we chase out the wolves that way.


But my question is, why do you feel the need to bring that up? With a smiley?

I've read through the two pages (thank you so much for making this easy on my brain, my darlings) and I don't think this is quite the issue it has been made out to be. Yes, Nog took this a bit too seriously, perhaps, but he's not campaigning to kill Shasta because of that comment. Let us ignore that exchange for at least the moment and concentrate on other things. Mountains, molehills, and soon, murderous- oh, never mind, Nilp's not playing, so there's no use in being blissfully masochistic. *grump* Still, let's take this easy, at least for toDay.


"Agree"? He did jump on Shasta– no question. I wonder why, though.

Because he's Nog and, bless him, he can overthink things quite easily. I call no harm on this once more and am now moving on from it. However, this is a prime opportunity for someone to slip in and either side with Nog or try to paint him a villain for jumping on my starry-eyed darling. If this talk does continue, I'll be keeping a much closer eye on those involved.


Bleurgh!

My keyboard has gone partly crazy> I must have hit some queer key/combination *see!( as my special marks come from totally odd keys and some have disappeared totally like _ aka. the questionmark...

Does anyone know what kind of combinations change the keys_

*I\ll try closing the machine first though(

Funniest thing I've seen all day. ^_^


Thanks. Yeah, I shot the laptop off and then on again. Darn shortcut -key combinations...

RED LIGHT. RED LIGHT. RED LIGHT. Or, you know, typo. Still hilarious though. (Tell me. Did you shoot the battery?)

[satansaloser2005]

So there's only one vote, and it's for Pom? And DL is in a bit under an hour and a half? Oh, cupcakes. This is going to get crazy....

[Boromir88]

Boro: I feel a bit doubtful about his lack of internet leading to long enough, yet unsubstantial post - you had time to go through us all, but not go through what had been said? Then again, there was not a lot to analyse, and Boro both brings up the case against Nerwen and votes for her, which raises his points in my head since it is a relatively valid point (as much as anything is valid on day 1) and thus he risks the lynching of a potential pack mate. Then again (again), there's nothing that will make me trust Boro anything more than a bit :P

And that's the way I like to keep things, one you can never trust nor be comfortable with for any extended period of time. :p

Of those posting and participating more actively than myself, I really have no desire to vote for to lynch today. It's hard to want to lynch those contributing on vague misfeelings when there is a good crowd of quiet. I mean we all hang on our words and actions eventually. Eventually the chatty wolf has to lie or give red herrings when they're words (posts) don't match their actions (votes and night kills).

At this point with very little in the way of words, and even less in actions, I don't like the prospect of lynching anyone who is being active.

Looking at the limitted actions..Rune and Nog voted for Pom. Rune is dead proven innocent. Nog's reason to tie and see which one the rest would do, or possibly save, but unfortunately no more votes after. Copper and MCR both voted Rune, and look reasonable enough. He had at that point made 1 post and basically repeated Nerwen.

So, it seems ever more likely I will vote for someone who have been less active than me...Shasta, sally, Skip...if any of you are around, please start adding, something. Anything.

Edit: crossed with sally...well yes, that qualifies as "something."

[satansaloser2005]

*proclaims loudly*

What game of 'Wolf is this, when most
Of all the players do not post?

*turns to stone in the sunlight*

This being Gal's only post? Extremely disconcerting. There's not a promise of "I'll be back later" or even the slightest hint of her feelings/suspicions. I do believe she's said she'll be busy for the duration of the game, but this....this seems almost like calculated avoidance.

[satansaloser2005]

So, it seems ever more likely I will vote for someone who have been less active than me...Shasta, sally, Skip...if any of you are around, please start adding, something. Anything.

Oh, my sweet Boro, what have you done? You seek to harm me? I am stunned into (or rather, out of) silence.

[Boromir88]

This being Gal's only post? Extremely disconcerting. There's not a promise of "I'll be back later" or even the slightest hint of her feelings/suspicions. I do believe she's said she'll be busy for the duration of the game, but this....this seems almost like calculated avoidance.

Gal is not playing dear. I assumed that was just a bored haunting wight shouting and releasing frustration for not having much in the form of amusing to read and alleviate deadly boredom.

[satansaloser2005]

Gal is not playing dear. I assumed that was just a bored haunting wight shouting and releasing frustration for not having much in the form of amusing to read and alleviate deadly boredom.

ARE YOU SERIOUS? *checks* Ugh. I am just beyond fired now. I had my player list beside me and everything and still didn't realize- Let us never speak of this again.

[A Little Green]

Talking about Freudian slips?Nog is being way too entertaining toDay!

Ahem. To business. First off, Sally comments in great length on a discussion she thinks is not really relevant, which strikes me as funny. I mean -I've read through the two pages (thank you so much for making this easy on my brain, my darlings) and I don't think this is quite the issue it has been made out to be. Yes, Nog took this a bit too seriously, perhaps, but he's not campaigning to kill Shasta because of that comment. Let us ignore that exchange for at least the moment and concentrate on other things. Mountains, molehills, and soon, murderous- oh, never mind, Nilp's not playing, so there's no use in being blissfully masochistic. *grump* Still, let's take this easy, at least for toDay.

--

Because he's Nog and, bless him, he can overthink things quite easily. I call no harm on this once more and am now moving on from it. However, this is a prime opportunity for someone to slip in and either side with Nog or try to paint him a villain for jumping on my starry-eyed darling. If this talk does continue, I'll be keeping a much closer eye on those involved.Both myself and Nog had already dropped the issue at this point. The talk does continue only since Sally took it up again, which makes no sense if she really finds it irrelevant. Makes me raise an eyebrow or two.

Secondly, Boro is being rather noncommittal which worries me. Nevertheless, I can sympathize with him (and Nog) on not wanting to vote for anyone who contributes. Although at least in my case the problem is that I don't really suspect anyone who doesn't! :rolleyes:


EDIT: x-ed with 2xSally, Boro, and a third Sally

[Coppermirror]

I should vote soon.

Out of the people who have been posting, the one I have the most suspicion of is Pom. However, that's not based so much on the actual things that have been said. It's an overall impression, and actually, a lot of the things that are supposedly suspicious about things Pom has said don't seem to stand out as suspicious to me. So...no real evidence, but a gut feeling. In a situation where Pom is one of the most active players, has been contributing to the discussion, and seems to generally make good points. I could vote for Pom, even though it would feel unfair.

Or I could vote for someone quiet. Like Nog considers above, there is the option of voting for someone who's going under the radar but is not likely to be mod-fired. That would mean Sally or Shasta. I have nothing to go on with them at all. But...are they going to make it here in time to vote toDay? If they don't, won't they be mod-fired? If they do, there should at least be their voting record and any reasons they might give for their vote to look at the next Day. But unless their content picks up, they'll still be submarines.

Cross-posted with lots of people.

[satansaloser2005]

The talk does continue only since Sally took it up again, which makes no sense if she really finds it irrelevant. Makes me raise an eyebrow or two.

Meh. I was commenting as I went along (having gained the benefit of my prior skimming before I read through for that post) and just knew there was more said on the issue. I do believe I said more than needed to be said on a subject that wasn't actually brought up as much as it initially seemed.

More importantly, how many eyebrows do you have, dear? :rolleyes:

EDIT: x'd with a reflective Coppermirror

[A Little Green]

ARE YOU SERIOUS? *checks* Ugh. I am just beyond fired now. I had my player list beside me and everything and still didn't realize- Let us never speak of this again.No? I was thinking of reminding you of it... every day... for the next fifteen years... :Merisu:

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Here and reading. Two pages shouldn't take too long.

[A Little Green]

Meh. I was commenting as I went along (having gained the benefit of my prior skimming before I read through for that post) and just knew there was more said on the issue. I do believe I said more than needed to be said on a subject that wasn't actually brought up as much as it initially seemed. Hmm. That doesn't really make me feel any better about you, if not worse either. There's still the question of, if you thought a certain conversation is futile and a waste of the village's time, why comment on it at all?
Also, how many eyebrows do you have, dear? :rolleyes:For future reference: five.

[Boromir88]

Secondly, Boro is being rather noncommittal which worries me. Nevertheless, I can sympathize with him (and Nog) on not wanting to vote for anyone who contributes. Although at least in my case the problem is that I don't really suspect anyone who doesn't! :rolleyes:


Good luck finding a guy who does not have some type of commitment issue. :p

No, but seriously, while yeah noncommital, I could be committed to vote for anyone, except maybe Copper, at this point...if that makes sense? Currently my suspicions would be either completely rhetorical or ad hominen..."you're a wolf aren't you? Yes. You are, don't lie!?" Which would only aggrivate and give headaches to everyone. Try as I might not be a pushy, confrontational stickwad, we should all know it will happen at some point. But I try really hard not to be, because there is the expectation I be highly aggressive and prodding...at the same time it's emotionally taxing. And I just haven't felt like making that investment yet. It will come, usually if and when the situation gets direly desperate it comes. But until then I just try not to be a douche that winds up lynching the seer.

I don't see how it would do any good, but suppose it is more chatter, which is definitely needed. Something seems off with Pom's behavior and posting. Even the "Yeah my posts are strained" was weird, because then she pivots to griping about the limitted posts again.

And Nog is definitely paranoid, but as sally said...it is Nog.

But considering these two had been the most contributing so far, I didn't want to bother with vague feelings of offedness, just have a mental note to watch and wait. Since, as I said, I'm a firm believer the chatty wolves all hang on their wolves and actions at some point. But if they're chatty innocents than it's not worth losing them early on, especially with a relatively substantial "under the radar" group.

Edit: crossed with Greenie a few times and Shasta

[Nogrod]

Reading this one kind of made me pause for a moment.There are three wolves. If we have no candidates toward Day's end, then fine, sure, let's kill someone who is going to die anyway to in a way buy ourselves more time, but even if Skip is a wolf, he has packmates, and they must likewise be killed. I'd rather go out in a blaze of accidentally nuking the village than to kill villagers in their sleep and hope that we chase out the wolves that way.So how about turning the thinking upside down?

It seems Skip is not playing and we are having no good candidates - or at least it feels nasty to try and pick anyone with this little to go for - and so Skip is going to be modfired. And we are actually pretty low on players in the first place. So also from the POV of having this game going just a while longer - and thus giving us even a possibility of finding the wolves by some reasoning - we should at least discuss about this kind of damage-management vote toDay. If and when the wolves don't know each other - at least all of them - there is no team-play to be read from this Day either so it is not so bad if all vote the same.

If I have forgotten something important - or you see a way in which this could backfire let me know so I stop advocating it.

And well, it kind of feels like cheating a bit. But let's think about it anyway?

PS. If Skip is not playing he probably hasn't realised the game has begun - so he could be a wolf as well (about 1/3 possibility). It wouldn't sound like Skip to react like "nah, just an ordo, I'm not playing".

[Coppermirror]

Sally's shown up, and is posting plenty of content. Won't vote for her. Shasta has shown up, and is reading the posts, and may get back to us with content too.

And the more I look at Pom's posts, the more helpful and reasonable they seem. Gahh.

I have to vote right now, so:

++Shasta

[Nogrod]

And Nog is definitely paranoidOr just creative in trying to look for different possibilities for lycantrophy? :)

Someone has to do that too. :D

[satansaloser2005]

Nog: Given that there is only half an hour left in the Day, I am amenable to an absentee lynch for the sake of damage control. It's not my first choice, but I don't see a whole lot of options right now, so....ugh. I do want to wait as long as possible though, just in case Skip does show up.

I have some things to attend to, but I'll be back shortly before deadline.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Boro's post #13 is the first thing that really caught my eye, especially his vote and reason behind it -
++Nerwen

Do, I think Nerwen wolf would howl as she did? Meh. Probably not, but it's no different than any other shot in the dark reason.
It makes me think he doesn't care one bit about the lynch, so long as it's not him - and I can very easily see a wolf falling into that mindset this game.

I seem to be having difficult making a decision as well. I've looked through at others' viewpoints, and they all seem reasonable. However, I've got to agree with Coppermirror. Rune gave little to the discussion, and his post was quite short.
Now, I don't want to pick on the newbie, but this seems a little one-sided, considering Boro's post was just as short, as were Pom's. Could be a case of newbie-wolfism.

Nogrod does the same thing, almost -
That said - and here's my second thought for the moment. Of those posted I could say that Nerwen's "howl" and Rune's emphasis on his vote being "a shot in the dark" look the most plausible candidates for the wolves trying to signal each other.
- failing to note that Boro used the exact same wording, "shot in the dark", before Rune did.

But my question is, why do you feel the need to bring that up? With a smiley?
Oh no. Cursed smiley. It seems I have been caught. No one ever uses smileys unless they're evil, so clearly I'm... wait, what? :confused:

And this later thought that two wolves know each other and thusly their choices are less likely to succeed must be bore in mind.
This, I agree with, though. Given the no-kill last night, I think it's most likely that two wolves know each other. What are the rules on if a group of two wolves that know each other send a list, but the third wolf does not (i.e. are inactive)?

I mean he could have posted something of some substance, any comment on the game, anything, something, but all he did was that.
No I couldn't have. All I'd done was skim a bit before getting one post in in case I didn't wake up in time (I promptly went out after that and knew I wouldn't be awake again until late in the Day).

[A Little Green]

All right, dearies, it's bed-time for me. If I have it right, Pom is the only one with a vote this far. I have my doubts about her, but not enough to give her a second vote. I also considered Nog but decided to give him a pass for now (mainly because everything I've found suspicious about him this far has been stuff I always suspect him for when he's innocent). Or some submarine, for that matter, but Shasta is still coming toDay it seems and I don't want to lynch him before he has the chance to show his quality (heh heh), and MCR had some RL trouble, didn't she? If so, I'd be inclined to give her another Day. Copper has looked innocentish all along and Boro more so after his most recent post. Who I was thinking of is instead

++ Sally

Part gut-feeling, part her inclination to pursue an irrelevant topic; makes no sense for an innocent, makes sense for a wolf. Flimsy, I know, but it's the best I've got.


EDIT: x-ed with everything on this page!

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Having some gut-rumblings about my pearl.

Kind of want to vote Boro, though.

And neither of those actually help right now. Hmm.

[A Little Green]

So how about turning the thinking upside down?

It seems Skip is not playing and we are having no good candidates - or at least it feels nasty to try and pick anyone with this little to go for - and so Skip is going to be modfired. And we are actually pretty low on players in the first place. So also from the POV of having this game going just a while longer - and thus giving us even a possibility of finding the wolves by some reasoning - we should at least discuss about this kind of damage-management vote toDay. If and when the wolves don't know each other - at least all of them - there is no team-play to be read from this Day either so it is not so bad if all vote the same.

If I have forgotten something important - or you see a way in which this could backfire let me know so I stop advocating it.Nog - yes, you have forgotten something important. The wolves win by killing us at Night (and Day). We win by killing wolves by Day. The lynch is pretty much our only weapon, and it's utter madness not to use it. Anyhow, I know this isn't the first time I disagree with you (or someone else) on this topic so I'm not going to argue, but I'd advise strongly against any such plan.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Nerwen - Pom (Pom1)
Cop - Shasta (Pom1, Shasta1)
Greenie - Sally (Pom1, Shasta1, Sally1)

Is that really all the votes thus far? Isn't deadline in twenty minutes?

[Nogrod]

Boro used the exact same wording, "shot in the dark", before Rune did.Well picked. I mean that might be exactly a kind of phrase a wolf might wish to use trying ot signal out. The problem of course being so might an innocent as it is quite a common idiom...

And yes, these are just trying to catch even tiny bits of things from here and there in hopes that they start to pile up at one time or another. And I do still think trying to signal other wolves is a wolf's number one priority...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

It's the weirdest thing... why would Boro call Nerwen "Nerwen wolf"? Why not just Nerwolf like she's usually called?

[Boromir88]

Boro's post #13 is the first thing that really caught my eye, especially his vote and reason behind it -

It makes me think he doesn't care one bit about the lynch, so long as it's not him - and I can very easily see a wolf falling into that mindset this game.

Yes, but important distinction...I don't care about the lynch as long as it's not the seer. If it so happens I am a top lynch suspect, this you can trust me on, I won't fight it much and I definitely won't bite. It might be disappointing for you to hear this, considering how you might feel about biters.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Can't not do it. Too many interesting little things.

++Boro

[Nogrod]

Nog - yes, you have forgotten something important. The wolves win by killing us at Night (and Day). We win by killing wolves by Day. The lynch is pretty much our only weapon, and it's utter madness not to use it. I agree with the lynch being our only weapon, but we would not be lynching a "probably innocent" like when a lackluster player is lynched just to be on the safe side, but a 1/3 possibility wolf.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

I agree with the lynch being our only weapon, but we would not be lynching a "probably innocent" like when a lackluster player is lynched just to be on the safe side, but a 1/3 possibility wolf.

You say that like it's a sure thing...

[Nogrod]

Nice.

Let's all vote different people and let the dice decide then? :confused:

Nerwen - Pom
Cop - Shasta
Greenie - Sally
Shasta - Boro

You say that like it's a sure thing...?

[satansaloser2005]

Part gut-feeling, part her inclination to pursue an irrelevant topic; makes no sense for an innocent, makes sense for a wolf.

Who's pursuing it now, darling?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Nice.

Let's all vote different people and let the dice decide then? :confused:

Nerwen - Pom
Cop - Shasta
Greenie - Sally
Shasta - Boro

?

What I mean is, you're talking like Skip has a set-in-stone 1/3 chance to be evil without looking at all the possibilities. I agree that he could be a wolf, if all the wolves weren't just active and unlucky yesterday.

[Boromir88]

Let's all vote different people and let the dice decide then? :confused:

Nerwen - Pom
Cop - Shasta
Greenie - Sally
Shasta - Boro

?

For what it's worth, I would say first preference is to vote for Skip. But of those already with votes...

sally, Pom, then Shasta in that order. (as far as who I'd vote for)

[Pomegranate]

Okay. Real life caught up with me just as stuff started happening, and I will have to vote now, and won't have too much time to analyse the latest proceedings. But some vibes:

I've played with Boro twice. In the first game, he was innocent, and arrogant and aggressive. Actually acting pretty much like this explanation:

Currently my suspicions would be either completely rhetorical or ad hominen..."you're a wolf aren't you? Yes. You are, don't lie!?" Which would only aggrivate and give headaches to everyone.

In the second game he was a wolf and apologetic and like here. And I didn't realise. So now I'm feeling bad vibes.

And that being said, I'd like to follow on Nog's point on lynching a would-be mod-fire. I definitely don't want to get rid of Nog, Coppermirror or Nerwen, even though I'm not by far believing them innocent - they have at least been vocal, I've enjoyed having some company. And I'm not comfortable lynching anyone of the newly appeared people, because I haven't had time to concentrate in what they have said. And this seems reasonable now that I at least feel like I'll have some talk and some actions to analyse, come tomorrow.

++skip spence

Good night.

[Nogrod]

Pom's explanations were a bit over--thought (reminded of something come up with afterwards).

Boro is too nice and holding back anything he possibly suspects only talking nice to others.

Skip would be damage-control (and about 1/3 possibility wolf).

I'm still a bit suspicious of Nerwen, even if some would find the reasons for my suspicions overreaching (but there's so little thus far for anything)...

[Shastanis Althreduin]

So...

"I think Boro could be a wolf, and he has a vote, but I'm going to place the first vote on someone who's going to be modfired anyway instead, because reasons."

-raises eyebrow-

[Nogrod]

Let's see then...

++ Nerwen

Who will blink?

:)

[Pomegranate]

Boro did not have a vote when I wrote that, I was crossing with that post.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Let's see then...

++ Nerwen

Who will blink?

:)

Whoa, what? Very unlike you, Nog.

[Nogrod]

Nerwen - Pom
Cop - Shasta
Greenie - Sally
Shasta - Boro
Pom - Skip
Nog - Nerwen

[satansaloser2005]

....Whoa.

EDIT: x'd since Nog's vote, and I repeat, whoa

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Boro did not have a vote when I wrote that, I was crossing with that post.

Ah, noted. Apologies.

[Boromir88]

I've played with Boro twice. In the first game, he was innocent, and arrogant and aggressive. Actually acting pretty much like this explanation:


The thing people don't understand though is it's draining to keep up that aggression and intensity constantly. So, I save it for times when it's absolutely really necessary.

[A Little Green]

Err - what?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

....Whoa.

Fix it please, dear cupcake.

[satansaloser2005]

I have to leave like now, kids. Can we just cut the shenanigans and lynch a wolf already?

[Shastanis Althreduin]

The thing people don't understand though is it's draining to keep up that aggression and intensity constantly. So, I save it for times when it's absolutely really necessary.

Since when? :eek:

[Kath]

Stop posting.

[satansaloser2005]

++Nog

Too weird.


EDIT: Wait, what? It's still 4:00, isn't it? In any case, I have to leave. *scampers*

[Nogrod]

Whoa, what? Very unlike you, Nog.This is such an odd game I thought it was time to try something completely different... :)

I mean c'mon!

This little talk, everyone votes different persons... let's see what random does then?

It probably serves us better than our reasoning as there is little or none of it - because there is nothing to go on - not only because of quietness but also because there are no wolf-co-operations either.

ANd hey, it's nice to surprise every now and then and not be too predictable. ;)

[Kath]

You lot are as bad as the X Factor judges. Randomising the result and you'll have the narration in 10 minutes.

EDIT: sally your vote doesn't count because it was after my post - sorry.

[Kath]

It had been a crazy Day in the village. Everyone was too frightened or too contrary to come to a general decision and as a result there was a sudden end of Day rush. There were six villagers lined up on the gallows, and all of them were shouting at each other.

"It's got to be skip!" Pom shouted at Nerwen. "He hasn't even turned up, why should I die over him?"

"Because you're the one that looks guilty!" Nerwen screamed back.

"Shut up!" Came the cry from the few villagers who hadn't ended up in line for the noose. "We're trying to decide."

"Nog!" A faint, panting voice flew from the crowd. Everyone turned to look at sally in despair.

"And you couldn't have said that a minute earlier?" Was Greenie's sarcastic response.

sally blushed and muttered something about posting times and overeager mods.

"Hey! Can we focus on us now please?" Boro called. "I'd rather not die of boredom while waiting for a decision to be - Oy! Who threw that?"

A wet fish had struck Boro in the face. Confused the villagers looked round and found Shasta holding a bucket of the slimy things.

"What?" He asked. "I thought it might help us decide."

Coppermirror gently look the bucket away and gave Shasta a pat.

"Never mind dear." She said. "I know it's all a bit stressful, but I'm sure the Valar will show us who should die today. Your fish won't be needed."

She was quite right. Even as the fish were quietly disposed of a bright light shone over the six frightened figures on the gallows. It became so bright the villagers were forced to shade their eyes. When the light finally faded, four villagers were walking back down the steps, their ropes burned to nothing.

Shasta and skip were left on the gallows.

Shasta accepted his fate with grace and humility.

"You idiots! You're meant to be lynching wolves not your own kind! I'll never forgive you for this. You deserve your fates!"

Skip pulled the lever, cutting off Shasta's final rant. The villagers watched with baited breath ... but Shasta remained as he was, an died.

All eyes turned to skip. As silent as he was in life, the beginning of his death was marked only by the crash of the trapdoor. Yet even as his body swung in the air it began to change. His limbs writhed within their bonds, his skin rippling and changing.

"Quickly! Tighten the noose!" Cried sally.

Half the village rushed on to the gallows and hauled on the rope. The combined strength of their efforts was watched by those on the ground and slowly, slowly, skip stopped moving.

"Well. One down."

~ ~ ~

Dead:
Kath (mod)
Rune (innocent villager)
Shasta (innocent villager)
skip (wolf - modfired)

Living:
Nerwen
Greenie
sally
Boro
Pom
Coppermirror
MCR
Nogrod

If MCR doesn't post or vote toMorrow she will be modfired. I accept that sally tried to vote so she is not in danger of modfire.

Seer please send me your dream. Wolves please send me your lists and dreams.

[MCRmyGirl4eva]

Now, I don't want to pick on the newbie, but this seems a little one-sided, considering Boro's post was just as short, as were Pom's. Could be a case of newbie-wolfism.
Thanks for not picking on me, but ouch... you think I could be a wolf? I'm too adorable for that! :Merisu: Haha.

MCR: She seemed earnest and serious. She followed my vote for Rune, but for a different reason than my vote. This might, possibly, have been something she would consider a safe, non-suspicious vote. She's not going to be around much, and that worries me.
Personally, though I can see the reasoning here, I don't think it's quite fair. However, I suppose that could be because I'm on the recieving end. Sorry guys, but at least I informed you, istead of disappearing without a word. :p That's got to count for something, right?

Okay, I have to vote pretty early today, since I don't have much time left on the computer.

He hasn't put his mind out very much, he's mostly been keeping to himself. A bit too quiet for my taste.

So my vote is for:

++ Boromir88

My alternate choice would have been Nogrod, but as he seems to be one of the main factors keeping the game going, I have decided against it.

[satansaloser2005]

MCR, the Day is over. It is now Night, and we are not allowed to post. The Day will open in approximately four hours. Until then, if you have any in-game comments, please keep them to yourself. If you have any meta issues, post them on the admin thread (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18098). Thank you!

*curls up, goes back to sleep for the rest of the Night*

[Kath]

Sorry for late start to the Day - computer issues. Just sorting PMs now and then the narration will be up in a few minutes.

[Kath]

The wolves were angry. The death of one of their fellows had incensed them so that the entire village shook with the force of their howls that Night. It was too much for one poor villager.

Nog, trembling as he ran, attempted a foolish escape attempt. Despite every caution he could take, he was set upon even as he reached the woods. His desperate screams were heard by the village, but none dared leave the safety of their own homes.

It was with heavy hearts that the villagers made their way to the site of the massacre once sunlight broke over the little town. Trails of sticky bloody and torn clothing led them to the barely recognisable corpse. The fury of the wolves had been abated as they had played with Nog's body ... for now.

Dead:
Kath (mod)
Rune (innocent villager)
Shasta (innocent villager)
skip (wolf - modfired)
Nog (innocent villager)

Living:
Nerwen
Greenie
sally
Boro
Pom
Coppermirror
MCR

Villagers you can post again now.

MCR make sure that you post and vote toDay so you don't get modfired.

[satansaloser2005]

He who sees into my very soul (or role) must be avenged. Also, wolves, killing Nog? Why? Meh. I'm at work (slow night), but....shock and awe. We cannot do a lynch like yesterDay again. >.<

[Nerwen]

YesterDay... was completely insane. I must say, while it's nice we're a wolf down– even if by pure luck– I'm not at all happy about my jewel getting it. I mean, what did I tell you?:rolleyes:

[Nerwen]

So, questions–

1. Why Nog? Was it just to get rid of the most active player, or did his push to lynch Skip look Seer-ish (i.e., a Seer who had dreamed Skip, but no other wolf)? It was certainly an unusual thing for him to suggest– but then he voted me instead, which ought to have cancelled out that line of reasoning. (From my point of view, I suppose it could also have been a framing attempt, but a pretty feeble one.)


2. Did the remaining wolves know each other yesterDay, anyway? 2. a.) Did they (or either of them, if they haven't made contact) know Skip's role? This seems very unlikely, though he *could* have been a random Night One dream.

[Coppermirror]

Nogrod on Day 1

- worried that the most vocal/obvious/high profile players could be targets because of the wolf voting dynamics

- suggested an "if we all act like wolves toDay it makes the voting quite random" strategy

- didn't agree (with whom?) that the wolves would be especially underhand in this game

- said we can't find wolves on D1 by the most common method of tracking their relationships to their mates, and that we can't use the Day's voting for solid evidence either

- thinks Nerwen and Rune's posts look the most like wolves trying to signal each other, but that there is little to go on

- thinks something Pom said might be a little fishy

Check this post for his full suspicions of each person at the time (I don't have time to write it all up right now) http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=675573&postcount=22

- decides to vote for someone who posted rather than someone who hasn't

- "So Nerwen might have tried to signal a mate or not (it's soo 50-50 to say), Pom might have just revealed she was thinking this so heavily from the POV of the wolves she kind of didn't realise what the position of us innocents is - or then she just didn't tihnk of it enough..."

- decides in the end to tie the vote by voting for Pom, hoping to see if anyone would show up to break the tie.


I'll come back later to go through Nog's Day 2. But if anyone else wants to go ahead and do it first, that's fine by me. I won't be back for at least a couple of hours.

[Coppermirror]

But before I go:


Personally, though I can see the reasoning here, I don't think it's quite fair. However, I suppose that could be because I'm on the recieving end. Sorry guys, but at least I informed you, istead of disappearing without a word. :p That's got to count for something, right?

It is good that you told us you'd be having trouble, really! But the other suspicions about you, well, that's just par for the course in Werewolf. Like you were saying in-character on Day 1, it's hard to trust anyone.

You tried to cast your vote for the Day, right? But you posted it during the Night period of the game, so it won't count. (Probably, unless Kath-mod takes extreme mercy on you.) If you still want to cast a vote, you'll need to do it sometime during Day 3, which is now. And, if you don't cast a vote toDay, you'll be mod-fired.

[Coppermirror]

Nogrod on Day 2

- Thinks there's at least one inactive wolf, due to the lack of night kill.

- Considers that perhaps two wolves knew each other and that's why there was no night kill. (We now know this can't be true.)

- Questions Shasta (now proven innocent) about a post and a smiley.

- General talk about encouraging people to post.

- Explains some things to Pom about his Day 1 reasoning, saying that he thought some things Pom said made more sense if looked at from the perspective of a wolf who wasn't seeing things like a villager. Admits that his Day 1 reasoning was thin and uncertain.

- Says "It is interesting how there seems to be a collective meme around that I "jumped" on Shasta".

- Asks Greenie why she isn't calling Nerwen's statement that he jumped on Shasta a case of him being jumped on in turn. Says the issue is making mountains out of molehills and he won't talk about this issue again unless he's in danger of being lynched.

- Says that I'm posting a lot but not suspecting many people, Boro is talking too nicely and scaring him, and Greenie is likely more innocent than not, but he's more likely than not to vote for a submarine that's not going to be mod-fired.

- Says that it seems we have no good candidates for lynching and it seems nasty to pick anyone with this little to go on, and so suggests we lynch Skip Spence (wolf) as damage control so we have more time for reasoning later.

- Talks with Shasta about Boromir using the phrase "shot in the dark" before Rune did. Thinks that might be a phrase a wolf could use for signaling...or that an innocent could have used it just as common idiom.

- Defends the lynching Skip idea to Greenie on the grounds that Skip had 1/3 odds of being a wolf.

- Suggests that we all vote for different people and decide by dice :eek:. At this point 4 people had already voted, and all for different people.

- Says Pom's explanations were a bit over-thought and might have been made up afterwards, Boro is "is too nice and holding back anything he possibly suspects only talking nice to others", Skip would be damage control, and he's still a little suspicious of Nerwen even if others might think he's overreaching. Adds that there's still little to go on.

- Votes for Nerwen. Wants to see who will blink. 6-way tie! (Would have been 7 if Sally's vote for Nog counted.)

- Explains that he wanted to try something completely different, and that "It probably serves us better than our reasoning as there is little or none of it - because there is nothing to go on - not only because of quietness but also because there are no wolf-co-operations either."

And then he gets killed overNight.

So, why might he have been killed?

Option (A). The wolves thought he was the Seer because of correct guesses.

It could be because of his suggestion to lynch Skip, who turned out to be a wolf. But as Nerwen said, this is unlikely unless Skip was a random Night 1 dream.

At the end of Day 2 it seemed as if his greatest suspicions were of Boro, Pom and Nerwen. It looked as if he was the most suspicious of Boro out of those.

But they could also have gone by correct guesses of innocence. If that's the case, then...actually he didn't seem to be too confident of anyone's innocence.

Option (B). He was an active player, probably the most active one we had.

Option (C). Killing Nog would cast doubt on someone else. That would most likely be the people Nog was suspicious of yesterDay. But there are some complications to this: wouldn't the wolves be gunning for the Seer?

Option (D). Traceless kill. I don't think this is likely.

So overall, I'd guess that it's more likely to be option (A). But it might make a difference whether or not the wolves are in contact. If someone has the time, could you work out the odds of that?

I probably won't be back until an hour or so before the deadline. Here's hoping that activity picks up.

[A Little Green]

Nog? Seriously? That makes so little sense it isn't even funny.

What I would be very interested in knowing, though, is whether the remaining wolves know each other or not. I wonder if it would be mentioned in the narration or not. Probably not?

The trouble is, I agree with Nerwen and Copper that the possible scenarios for why the wolves would have gone for Nog look problematic. I just can't see the two wolves sitting down together and deciding to kill Nog, of all people. Like Copper said, shouldn't they be gunning for the Seer? Then again, if they don't know each other, gunning for the Seer would I guess be a deal harder, especially gunning for the same Seer. That, though, still doesn't explain why they both separately wanted to kill Nog.

Bleh. I don't know.

About yesterDay's lynch - that was insane, guys. Let's not repeat it, please? I was sad to see Shasta go, as he was among the few I felt relatively good about.

I'm going to have to vote very early toDay, probably some four to five hours before DL. On the bright side, though, I have stuff to do today but I should be able to pop in regularly until then.

[A Little Green]

So – two wolves in the following bunch (didn't realize we were this few until just now!) who do or do not know each other:

Nerwen – As impossible to read as always. I'd love a reread of her, might actually do that if I have time.
Sally – Still not comfortable with her for reasons stated yesterDay, looking forwards to seeing more.
Boro – Scares me. He's playing too careful. It would make sense for a wolf not knowing his fellows, I guess – he was very careful, especially early on, not to say anything too definite about anyone. Also, there has to be something wrong with a game where Nog purposefully brings about a random lynch and Boro is aggressive only when it's absolutely necessary! :D
Pom – Feeling slightly better about her than in the very beginning of the game, but not comfortable, either.
Coppermirror – Still liking what I'm seeing. If she's a wolf (It's a she, right? Or a he?), she's fooling me big time.
MCR – Not enough content to draw conclusions from.

So off the top of my head, if I had to make a guess, I'd say Sally and Boro look the worst - but since at least one of two wolves is always someone I forget to even consider, I wouldn't be surprised if the other was, say, MCR, or Nerwen, for that matter. Or anyone. This was a useful statement. :rolleyes:

[Nerwen]

But it might make a difference whether or not the wolves are in contact. If someone has the time, could you work out the odds of that?
The odds of the two current wolves making contact on Night One were 2:11, but after that there's too many unknowns– whether they were able to hint to each other, whether their other guesses remained alive. Still, I'd say there's a fairly good chance they have by now. I don't think the missed kill on Night Two tells us anything either way, as it seems likely Skipwolf never sent in a list at all.

The trouble is, I agree with Nerwen and Copper that the possible scenarios for why the wolves would have gone for Nog look problematic. I just can't see the two wolves sitting down together and deciding to kill Nog, of all people. Like Copper said, shouldn't they be gunning for the Seer? Then again, if they don't know each other, gunning for the Seer would I guess be a deal harder, especially gunning for the same Seer. That, though, still doesn't explain why they both separately wanted to kill Nog.
Something I should have thought of earlier: Nog was pretty jumpy yesterDay, wasn't he? To a wolf, that tends to scream "gifted".

[A Little Green]

Something I should have thought of earlier: Nog was pretty jumpy yesterDay, wasn't he? To a wolf, that tends to scream "gifted".Good point. Although I'm not sure if he was more jumpy than usual, or only regular Nog-jumpy.

[Nerwen]

Good point. Although I'm not sure if he was more jumpy than usual, or only regular Nog-jumpy.
I'm thinking mainly of his overreaction to Shasta's post, and then to the fact that people commented on it– I could certainly see that drawing wolfish attention.

Anyway. I've been having a look at various people; don't have time for a full analysis, so here are some thoughts and general impressions:


Greenie– Makes some very good points; can do that as a wolf, though, so I don't know...

Boro–. Hmmn. I've really– gasp!– got nothing against Mr88 this game. (It is, of course, never entirely wise to trust a live Boro until actually dreamed by the Seer.)

Pomegranate– Actually, you know, I'm feeling quite a lot better about her now.

Coppermirror– Pretty sensible, and is certainly making an effort. Still– her posting in the first two Days did rather justify Nogrod''s remark about "posting a lot while saying little" (#65). (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=675694&postcount=65) Also, not keen on her vote (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=675723&postcount=82) for my treasure yesterDay– her reasoning there seems quite contradictory.

Sally– has *really* posted a lot while saying little– except of course her rather unnecessary defence of Nog (whom she went on to vote for being "weird"!) I still haven't decided, but if had to vote now, I think Sally might be my choice.

MCR– Could be anything. Likely to be modfired, too.

Now, I wonder if it's any use looking for possible pairings yet? Also, would wolves have been for or against Nogrod's plan yesterDay?

[A Little Green]

Gah. I wrote a long post and Firefox went down and it's gone. :( The main points I think were the following:

1) Nerwen's list gave me second thoughts about Copper. The ones I was considering voting toDay were Boro and Sally. I was leaning towards voting Boro toDay, but given that I need to vote soon and wish to avoid a scenario like yesterDay's I might consider voting Sally again after all. At least I wouldn't feel alone!

2) On possible pairings: I'd say that if you find one, you should look into it (especially if there are signs of possible hints/communication from before the two knew each other), but I would also advise against spending a great deal of time on looking for pairs as they might not even exist yet.

3) On whether the wolves would support Nog's voting plan or not: I would say generally no. I had a very long theory on this that I don't have the energy to type again, but the main point is that the planned randomizing of votes would mean, to a wolf, an increased possibility of a fellow getting killed, and less of a possibility to steer the lynch away from themselves. But since the same holds more or less true also for non-wolves (the randomizing of the lynch leading to a higher probability of someone they think is on their side getting lynched, and less opportunities to steer the lynch to the direction they want), which is why we can't really start pointing fingers based solely on who disagreed with Nog's plan.

Actually, now that I think on it, could the whole voting-plan thing be conneted to why Nog was killed? If the wolves don't know each other, I guess they consider their kill lists also in light of who is least probable to be a fellow; and if I'm right in assuming that Nog's voting plan would not have been beneficial for them, Nog would have seemed like an unlikely fellow. I'm not sure how much sense that makes, though, and there are a lot of ifs involved. Also, one could also make a case on how the randomized lynch makes it, in many ways, easier to hide in the voting (as opposed to the usual accusations of bandwagoning and throwaway votes and the like).

Hmm. I've just contradicted myself, haven't I? :rolleyes: Also, Nog's voting plan sounds like a World War Two strategy...

[A Little Green]

All right. I need to dash now, won't be back before deadline. Going with

++ Sally

again. Don't do anything stupid while I'm gone, okay? :Merisu:

[satansaloser2005]

++ Sally

Don't do anything stupid while I'm gone, okay? :Merisu:

Well, you've hardly set a good example.... :rolleyes:

I am here and will remain more or less active until the Day's end, but I must go fix lunch. When I return, I'll have a go at analyzing the mess that was yesterDay's voting.

[Pomegranate]

Whoa. Is this day going to end at 10pm? That would be 1,5 hours before the DL, and we've got half a page of writing. I slept really little last night, and it's hard for me to get any proper analysis out of my head. I think I'll have a short nap and try to gather my thoughts, being back some time before deadline.

[satansaloser2005]

Responding to this as it catches my eye.

Did the remaining wolves know each other yesterDay, anyway? 2. a.) Did they (or either of them, if they haven't made contact) know Skip's role? This seems very unlikely, though he *could* have been a random Night One dream.

I'd say the odds of Skip being a random wolf dream are actually quite good, depending of course upon who the other wolves are. Skip is a veteran player, and it might be a good idea for a wolf (especially a newer player) to know whether or not Skip would be on their side (much like a seer might dream a player they like, for lack of a better word, to find a good ally). Do note that the same applies to other veteran players, so I really don't know how much that's worth. In the end, we won't know until the game is over, I suspect, though I hope a wolf did waste a dream on Skip and thus may not have knowledge of its fellow.


Back to my other business....

[satansaloser2005]

Some more quick things, and then I believe I have something to announce.

Sally's shown up, and is posting plenty of content.

No, really, I haven't. I've been posting vague things because I'm rushed and tired. Don't give me more credit than I deserve. :p

It's the weirdest thing... why would Boro call Nerwen "Nerwen wolf"? Why not just Nerwolf like she's usually called?

My prince? Do you have an answer to this question (or did you respond and I missed it)?

[Coppermirror]

:confused: Seriously, there's been this little discussion? I hoped there'd be something more to help decide, but at this rate there's hardly any more info than yesterDay. At least looking through the posts from the beginning earlier has helped.

People who look suspicious to me right now are:
Boromir: He's sounding very evasive, and people say he's acting unusually for an innocent Boro. Nog and Shasta were both suspicious of him. I think Boro said he didn't want to post much by way of suspicions; I understand that in a game with this little activity there's so little to base an opinion on, but it's best to at least try, and it looks as if he's not trying.

Sally: So little content that it's near-impossible to judge her. She did vote for Nog, although it wasn't counted, but I could imagine someone who isn't a wolf doing that too. It's a bit of a weak decision, to try to turn it into a 7-way tie, but eh, it was already a ridiculous situation anyway. Voting for people based on a lack of content has worked out badly so far, so toDay I won't vote for Sally.

MCR: Will probably get mod-fired, and has posted very little. Her first vote seemed reasonable enough. She did seem to be rather worked up about a few people who had very mild suspicions of her, which might indicate wolfishness. On the other hand this is her first game, so she can't be used to being suspected. Anyway, she's likely to get mod-fired, so there's no point in voting for her.

Nerwen: Very difficult to read.

Pom: I suspected her a lot over the first two Days, but after reading her posts over again on Day 2 I started to think my assumptions were wrong. Still on the fence about her.

I have to vote ASAP, so I'll probably vote for Boro in a moment, since I suspect him the most right now.

Having some gut-rumblings about my pearl

Who's Shasta's pearl? (There seem to be two people using pet names with him, so I don't know.) He seems to suspect them.

EDIT: cross posted with a bunch of people

[satansaloser2005]

Sally: She did vote for Nog, although it wasn't counted, but I could imagine someone who isn't a wolf doing that too.

For the record, and not that you have to believe me, but I would never do that. I think it's dirty to "forget" to vote on time. It was an apparent misunderstanding of the DL on my part; I'm used to the DL including X:00 and thought I'd have another few seconds to vote.


Who's Shasta's pearl? (There seem to be two people using pet names with him, so I don't know.) He seems to suspect them.

Nerwen.





Other post imminent. This just doesn't fit in with the rest of what I'm doing, so I'm posting it on its own. *shuffles off*

[Coppermirror]

No, really, I haven't. I've been posting vague things because I'm rushed and tired. Don't give me more credit than I deserve. :p

Er, actually I was in such a rush that I didn't have time to read what you said properly. At the time I just noticed that you'd posted stuff and so I hoped there'd be something to analyse toDay.

For the record, and not that you have to believe me, but I would never do that. I think it's dirty to "forget" to vote on time.

Huh? Oh, no, you misunderstood. I didn't mean to suggest that you'd do that. I meant that trying to make things into a 7-way tie would be a decent wolf move. But that an innocent with no idea what to do might do the same.

And I have to leave now, so:

++Boromir

[Boromir88]

Present. Got back from adventures of last night, needed a nap and overslept the alarm I set...maybe didn't even set one. Anyway, here now.

If it helps at all, believe this hindsight all you want or not...I'm peeved at myself for not voting Skip yesterday. That was my plan, lost track of the time and by the time I clicked "reply" and the page loaded. In that brief time Kath's post was suddenly the last one saying for everyone to stop posting. You can go back to one of my later posts where I said my preference was to vote for Skip, I was going to do stick to that, and now I'm angry (at me) because then there wouldn't have been that massive tie which led to Shasta's lynch.

That's from yesterday...now on to today.

[Boromir88]

My prince? Do you have an answer to this question (or did you respond and I missed it)?

Nope, didn't answer that question...I'm not even sure what the point is in getting at that? I typed Nerwen-wolf, not Nerwolf. Who cares if usually it's Nerwolf, and what's the difference other than the latter chops off the "e-n"?

[satansaloser2005]

The wolves did not start out this game knowing each other. They have the opportunity to find their fellows, which means we could still be dealing with two individual wolves or one pair.

As I said to Nerwen a few posts ago, I believe Skip could have been a good choice for a wolf dream (especially for a newer wolf). Assuming that assumption is correct and one of the wolves knew Skip was both guilty and idle, it would be in their interest to terminate Skip).

We’ve spoken of wolves talking in code, attempting to plot Night kills or other schemes using hints that they would hope the rest of the village would not find. As is always the case with WW, codes can come in the most obvious (votes) of places or the most obscure (veiled references or, as is my preference, links (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJLL-DNu3P4)). Those who have talked the most about the wolf codes have the best chance of concealing said codes within their messages. For instance....

Greenie: I was working under the assumption that there are wolves around that don't know each other, yet need to hit the same targets, and thus would react to an outspoken "plan" - not knowing whether it is from a fellow wolf or just something that someone says out - hoping that either Nog were a wolf and followed his own plan, or if that wasn't the case, that others would pick the same plan as well. I don't know if I suspect Nog, until now I've been just very happy that he's around, but if other people are starting to wake up I'll give him more consideration. I agree with Greenie about him jumping on Shasta, and I'm not sure whether I like his approach towards myself. I'll do some re-reading in a bit and see if that leads to something.

Pom actually states here that she hoped Nog was a wolf and followed his plans. Others picking up on the same plan, etc. At first I thought I was being paranoid about this, but frell, this seems not only opportunistic, but also a little too calculated and as if Pom’s reaching out for fellows.


This is a side note, but it’s something I want to consider for later.

Hmm. That doesn't really make me feel any better about you, if not worse either. There's still the question of, if you thought a certain conversation is futile and a waste of the village's time, why comment on it at all?

What I’d like to know is why Greenie says I’m talking about the subject too much yet continues to address the topic herself. She then votes me for discussing said issue (and other reasons even she admits are flimsy, though in this game, I can understand the lack of true “evidence” against someone). It’s like she’s trying too hard to find something wrong with me. Why? You’re not the seer, so you’re not dropping hints that I’m a wolf (because I’m not, see, so if you were, you’d be lying). Why not just let the subject drop rather than pressing it even more?


Back to Pomegranate, she (right?) goes from possibly suspecting Nog to jumping on board his “lynch absentee Skip” plan. It's possible, given the above statements, that Pom thought Nog was trying to hint to his other packmate to kill Skip.

And that being said, I'd like to follow on Nog's point on lynching a would-be mod-fire. I definitely don't want to get rid of Nog, Coppermirror or Nerwen, even though I'm not by far believing them innocent - they have at least been vocal, I've enjoyed having some company. And I'm not comfortable lynching anyone of the newly appeared people, because I haven't had time to concentrate in what they have said. And this seems reasonable now that I at least feel like I'll have some talk and some actions to analyse, come tomorrow.

++skip spence

Good night.

Scroll up and read what I said again. Before, I thought Nog could have been going for that idea, but he clearly was not a wolf. Pom, however, easily could be, and this would be the perfect opportunity for Pom to sidle up to Nog, size him up, and see if he’s an ally, all while killing Skip. It would be perfect for Pom and whoever the other wolf may be (which sadly I don’t have time to math out right now, but for reasons I can’t explain, my top two picks are Greenie and Boro).

Oh, and by the way....

Pom's explanations were a bit over--thought (reminded of something come up with afterwards).

....I wonder if I just found the reason for last Night’s kill.


I wish I’d had more time to explain this better, but Pom has been opportunistic, changing sides as suits and going with the plan that very clearly benefited the wolves. When Nog said Pom seemed to be overdoing it, Nog died. I....I don’t have any better ideas toDay. I think it’s got to be....

++Pom

[satansaloser2005]

....Guys?

[Boromir88]

Order of preference who I'd vote for...

Pom - spent a lot of Day 1 engaged in convo with Nog. As someone contributing the most, just wanted to watch some more before jumping on someone participating more than the rest. But since, I don't get this changed feeling that suddenly Pom looks better after 2nd thought. The rest of the time seems to be a lot of griping about the limitted activity.

Yeah it's hard with the low number of posts, and I haven't been helping with my usual loudmouth, aggressive self, but it is what it is. Spend more time commenting on what is said, not stating how little has been said, and Pom's been more of the latter recently.

Shasta had a good point with her vote too...granted I'm fine with her not voting me yesterday but that post definitely looked like "This is why Boro looks like a wolf, so I'm going to vote for this other person." I sense a set up from a wolf trying to keep around someone she can easily vote for at the opportune time...like "see I've noticed Boro hasn't been acting like himself" and she can use it whenever she wants. So, why didn't you vote based on that yesterday?

MCR - for the fact she could be modfired and like my reasons for wanting to vote Skip yesterday. I generally think it's a good idea to vote for potential mod-fireds if there are no more obvious wolf options.

Who I have no interest in voting for...

Nerwen and sally. Can't really explain this now, looking at the time, and absolutely needing to vote today.

Edit: crossed with sally twice.

[Pomegranate]

is toDay ending in five minutes?

[Boromir88]

++Pom

Need to do this now, can't wait for any other possible explanations. Sorry if you're not a wolf Pom.

[satansaloser2005]

is toDay ending in five minutes?

Two minutes, actually.

EDIT: Erm, make that one.

[Kath]

Villagers stop posting.

I am not at home so lynch and narration will be up in about half an hour.

[Pomegranate]

++boro i don't want to die.

[Kath]

"I don't want to die!" Pom screamed.

"Yeah, yeah." sally rolled her eyes. "If you say something like that then obviously you're a wolf."

"Unless she's a wolf pretending to be a wolf pretending to be a ..." Boro stopped suddenly. "Phew - was channelling Nog for a minute there!" He shook his head sharply and turned back to Pom.

"Definitely evil!" He cried decisively, and joined the crowd jostling Pom along to the gallows.

Miserably she climbed the wooden steps and meekly allowed her head to be put into the noose.

"It's all an act." Greenie whispered to Coppermirror. "Just wait and see, she'll sprout fur any minute."

"It's so unfair." Pom sobbed.

"Oh give over." Snapped Nerwen.

"Hey, when did she get back?" sally asked.

Various villagers shrugged, more interested in the imminent death of Pom. With a deafening crack the trapdoor opened, the rope twisted and Pom swung.

Minutes passed.

"Nothing." Nerwen said in disgust, sweeping back toward her home. The rest of the dwindling village slowly followed suit.

Kath (mod)
Rune (innocent villager)
Shasta (innocent villager)
skip (wolf - modfired)
Nog (innocent villager)
Pom (innocent villager)

Living:
Nerwen
Greenie
sally
Boro
Coppermirror
MCR*

MCR and Nerwen need to vote toMorrow or they will be modfired.

*Note on MCR: When I posted the opening narration to Day 3 I had not seen that MCR had voted and posted, though at very much the wrong time. As this does at least show willing I am not going to modfire her toDay as technically she participated (as with sally on the previous Day). If anybody has any major issues with this please let me know.

Seer please send me your dream. Wolves please send me your dream/list.

[Kath]

Cold winds whistled through the walls of the houses in the village. Many homes were covered with hastily constructed defences, but nothing could keep evil out for long.

Boro awoke with a start. He had nailed boards against every entrance to the house to keep the wolves out, but now by the sounds from outside those boards were being steadily broken down.

Ripping the boards from his bedroom window Boro ignored bleeding fingers as he scrambled through the small space.

But there was a second wolf.

Boro's panicked scream was swiftly cut off. All that could be heard amidst the wind was the sound of crunching bone.

The grisly sight of Boro's broken body nailed to his own boards greeted the villagers that morning.

"Hardly encouraging." sally muttered.

~ ~ ~

Kath (mod)
Rune (innocent villager)
Shasta (innocent villager)
skip (wolf - modfired)
Nog (innocent villager)
Pom (innocent villager)
Boro (innocent villager)

Living:
Nerwen
Greenie
sally
Coppermirror
MCR

If MCR does not post or vote toDay she will be modfired.

Villagers please start posting.

[MCRmyGirl4eva]

We're being cut down more and more... This is hardly encouraging!

Nog was one of our most active players, and now we've still got two wolves out there. Boro was definitely suspicious, except he's no longer a potential threat. *gulp!*

I have to take a shot now... so my vote is for

++Coppermirror

There's really no point in justifying my reasons.. Everybody has already analyzed everyone else to the point where anything I post for my reasoning will be redundant.

[satansaloser2005]

My prince! *runs away in tears*

[satansaloser2005]

Greenie's not the seer, or if she is, she hasn't dreamed of me (before last Night, anyway, and I think a seer Greenie would have dreamed me sooner). I'm certainly not the seer. Cop's considering leaving the game, which would be a cheap move from either a wolf or the seer, so I think Cop is most likely an ordo (or else the poor wolves have just had no luck whatsoever as far as activity). MCR keeps forgetting about the game but has made concerted efforts (some outside the bounds of the rules, but she still gets credit for trying, bless her) to keep playing, which makes me think she may have a role. I am, as usual, clueless on Nerwen, except to say that I don't suspect her at all, which leads me to believe she's evil, based on our history (or that she's the seer and my gifted radar is pinging again).

Obviously this is not necessarily accurate (apart from my role, which....if I don't know my own role, I'm in trouble), but given both the meta details and the way some people have been acting, I have a list of what I believe people may be.


Logic willing, the following is true:
Sally: Ordo
Greenie: Wolf or ordo
Copper: Ordo
MCR: Wolf or seer
Nerwen: Wolf or seer?


And yes, I'm calling forth the seer at this time. Whoever you are, we need you, if only to clear one person from the lynch block toDay. Help a cupcake out here.

[Nerwen]

Greenie's not the seer, or if she is, she hasn't dreamed of me (before last Night, anyway, and I think a seer Greenie would have dreamed me sooner). I'm certainly not the seer. Cop's considering leaving the game, which would be a cheap move from either a wolf or the seer, so I think Cop is most likely an ordo (or else the poor wolves have just had no luck whatsoever as far as activity). MCR keeps forgetting about the game but has made concerted efforts (some outside the bounds of the rules, but she still gets credit for trying, bless her) to keep playing, which makes me think she may have a role. I am, as usual, clueless on Nerwen, except to say that I don't suspect her at all, which leads me to believe she's evil, based on our history (or that she's the seer and my gifted radar is pinging again).

Obviously this is not necessarily accurate (apart from my role, which....if I don't know my own role, I'm in trouble), but given both the meta details and the way some people have been acting, I have a list of what I believe people may be.


Logic willing, the following is true:
Sally: Ordo
Greenie: Wolf or ordo
Copper: Ordo
MCR: Wolf or seer
Nerwen: Wolf or seer?


And yes, I'm calling forth the seer at this time. Whoever you are, we need you, if only to clear one person from the lynch block toDay. Help a cupcake out here.

I am the Seer; you, I know, are innocent. Unfortunately, you are the only person whose role I know who is still alive– every time I dream someone as innocent, the village promptly lynches 'em.:mad: As for catching wolves– well, I mean, how am I supposed to do that if the buggers won't even post? (Though that's not entirely fair, as at least one out of Cop and Greenie must be a wolf.)

[satansaloser2005]

I'm inclined to believe Nerwen partially because of this....

Who I have no interest in voting for...

Nerwen and sally. Can't really explain this now, looking at the time, and absolutely needing to vote today.

That could have been read as a seer hint. At this stage in the game, getting the seer would be crucial, and Boro's post being taken as a seer hint would point to Nerwen's (and my) innocence, even though my prince was clearly not the seer.

In any case, I agree that Greenie is almost certainly a wolf. If Cop drops out/is modfired at the end of the Day it won't really matter, but until we get a ruling on that I'm going to assume we have a chance at victory. I see no real reason to hold my vote, but I also don't want to jump into anything rash, so I'll wait until morning to vote just in case something wacky happens.

[Nerwen]

In any case, I agree that Greenie is almost certainly a wolf. If Cop drops out/is modfired at the end of the Day it won't really matter, but until we get a ruling on that I'm going to assume we have a chance at victory. I see no real reason to hold my vote, but I also don't want to jump into anything rash, so I'll wait until morning to vote just in case something wacky happens.
Cop voted yesterDay, so she won't be automatically modfired toDay even if she doesn't vote. Stlll, I'd say she is the least likely of the three to be a wolf– even if that's partly through meta-reasoning.

But there's other things– the kill-choices, especially last Night's, seem like the kind an experienced wolf makes– in particular, I doubt two cubs would have picked up Boro's comment about you and me as a possible Seer "tell" (assuming you're right about that). Not that Greenie has actually said or done anything you could call a giveaway– the most I could say is that her posting might be consistent with her being a wolf probing for fellows/targets.

MCR's another kind of enigma, having posted so little. Still, as you say she's acting rather like someone with a role– and I know what it *isn't*. Her vote-post toDay doesn't look too good, even from someone in a hurry.

[satansaloser2005]

Which to go for then? I'm inclined to go for Greenie because she's the most certain wolf in my head. She's been acting like a normal little green wolf in regards to me, and while I think the new players could have picked up on Boro's "hint," I'm almost certain Greenie would have.

[satansaloser2005]

Note: I may be leaving sooner today than I expected, but I'll be able to at least pop in a vote from my phone. No news yet, and with toDay's level of chatter, I doubt it'll be a problem anyway.

[A Little Green]

Argh, I had a dreadful day and don't really have time for this, and things had to get confusing just now! :( Anyhow, I'm probably the only clueless person around right now, which is kind of sad; but basically I can see two possible pairs: either
a) Nerwen and Sally decided to pull off a spectacular bluff instead of just skating their way through, or
b) Nerwen is the real Seer, which would mean that MCR and Copper are wolves - and probably, then, not aware of each other since MCR voted Copper.
I'm leaning more towards option b) since Nerwen's claim looks honest enough and would make much less sense for a wolf than an actual Seer, AND her being a Seer fits the picture rather better than MCR or Copper being one.

So, here's to hoping I was right -

++Copper

Got to dash, sorry for my crappy participation toDay, things happened.

[Nerwen]

All right. Back again.

See, this is what is bothering me. After that vote, we should be able to rule out MCR + Cop– only as we don't know if the wolves have found each other, it's still possible they're unwitting packmates. Not only that, it's even possible that a Wolfgirl4eva simply doesn't understand the game enough to realise she shouldn't have voted a Copperwolf toDay. Newbies do have a way of throwing out one's calculations...

I mean, I really wouldn't be worrying about this, except it's been a pretty weird game...

Anyway, I'm going to have to vote shortly. I can't wait much longer.

EDIT:X'd with Greenie and 2 Sallys. I mean, really, I wait around for hours and just when I've given up on anyone else showing up...

EDIT2: "That vote" of course refers to MCR's vote for Copper.

[satansaloser2005]

Well, Nerwen, it looks like we don't have much choice now, do we? The best the two of us can do is tie it and hope Copper shows up and follows our lead.

And with that....

++Greenie

[Nerwen]

*sigh*

I was *really* hoping for a fake-reveal to entertain us...

EDIT:X'd with Sally

[Nerwen]

Anyway–

++Greenie.

[satansaloser2005]

Of course there's always the chance that my logic is horribly wrong -again- and that Nerwen is just a bluffing wolf, but given that it's all I have to go on, and that it makes sense combined with my other observations, and that I keep saying that, I think that there's a decent chance that we're right. About that. That.

EDIT: x'd with two Ner-posts

[Nerwen]

Of course there's always the chance that my logic is horribly wrong -again- and that Nerwen is just a bluffing wolf, but given that it's all I have to go on, and that it makes sense combined with my other observations, and that I keep saying that, I think that there's a decent chance that we're right. About that. That.

EDIT: x'd with two Ner-posts
No, don't worry. And thanks for trusting me.

Anyway– one of them has to be a wolf, and if it's not one of them it's both of them. So even if it ends up being a tie, we've got a pretty good chance.

[Nerwen]

Anyway, Sally, I have to leave. Good luck!

[satansaloser2005]

Well, this has been....uneventful. :rolleyes:

[Kath]

Villagers stop posting.

[Kath]

It had been a quiet Day in the village.

"Never thought I'd say this," Greenie muttered, "but I miss Nog."

"Yeah." Coppermirror agreed. "Maybe we wouldn't have been in this double lynch situation again with him around."

"Pfft." Nerwen snorted with derision. "He's the one that got us in to this mess Days ago!"

Bowing their heads in acknowledgement Greenie and Copper trudged up to the gallows. This was hardly even entertainment anymore for the remaining villagers. Their discussions had yet again failed to lead them to a decision, and now it was down to fate to decide what happened next.

Two nooses went around two necks. Two levers were pulled. Two trapdoors opened. Two bodies fell. One rope snapped and the survivor fell to the floor unharmed. The other body fell. It twisted in the rope, curling up and then stretching out as though preparing for a grand transformation. But the evil inside was slowly being suffocated even as it swung, and soon it stopped moving. Dead, Coppermirror dangled.

~ ~ ~

Dead:
Kath (mod)
Rune (innocent villager)
Shasta (innocent villager)
skip (wolf - modfired)
Nog (innocent villager)
Pom (innocent villager)
Boro (innocent villager)
Coppermirror (wolf)

Living:
Nerwen
Greenie
sally
MCR

Wolf you can now send me a kill only. Seer send me your dream.

[Kath]

That Night there was a battle of wills. One wolf pitted against the might of Feanor held within the body of Nerwen. Light blazed around the two as they fought, but for this time evil was stronger and eventually emerged victorious.

The villagers were not surprised to find Nerwen cold and still the next morning. However, her body seemed almost untouched. Whatever good had lived in her had helped protect her to the end.

Now they looked at each other. Three villagers - two innocent, one not. Who would triumph that Day?

~ ~ ~

Dead:
Kath (mod)
Rune (innocent villager)
Shasta (innocent villager)
skip (wolf - modfired)
Nog (innocent villager)
Pom (innocent villager)
Boro (innocent villager)
Coppermirror (wolf)
Nerwen (Feanor - Seer)

Living:
Greenie
sally
MCR

Villagers start posting.

(Sorry about late start. Assessment marking!)

[satansaloser2005]

So....lycanthropy.

(Seriously, no one else yet toDay? Ugh.)

[A Little Green]

I'm here. To get it over with -

++ MCR

That's clear enough. Nerwen was the real Seer so Sally isn't a wolf (seems I was epicly mistaken, again), I'm not one, so MCR has to be the last wolf. Makes sense, anyway; she's showed some basic new wolf traits such as touchiness about being suspected and appearing to look for somebody to suspect instead of somebody who is a wolf.

It's up to you, Sally, since I doubt WolfCR will self-vote. I know you don't trust me, and I also know there's precious little I can do to convince you to. I dearly hope you would, though, since we lose if you don't.

[MCRmyGirl4eva]

I'm voting for

++ Greenie

Sorry, but I know my role. And I don't trust you, Greenie, so I guess it's fair. :p

[A Little Green]

And I don't trust you, Greenie, so I guess it's fair.You don't trust me? A hint for next time: in a situation like this, an innocent you would know me for a wolf.

[satansaloser2005]

Honoring Nerwen's last wishes and also following my gut.

++Greenie

Let's hope I'm right this time....

[Kath]

It had taken Days, near six-way lynches, some sheer luck and finally, finally agreement among the villagers - but there was, at last, a confident lynch.

Greenie was led up to the noose. She was resigned to her fate.

"Oh come on!" sally shouted. "Give us something, some entertainment, go on."

Greenie held her head high, nose in the air, refusing to dignify that with a response.

"Farewell sweet village," she began, "long have I enjoyed the quiet homes and beautiful woodland. The leaping waters of the -"

"Oh just pull the lever already!" MCR shouted. sally obliged. Greenie fell.

With the death of her fellow wolves the evil spirit within Greenie had faded. The struggling form that was once Greenie twitched. Fur sprouted and limbs lengthened, but she was defeated and the twitching didn't last long.

The two living villagers stood in quiet relief for a moment, and then returned home, hoping this was the last time they would have to defeat such evil.

VILLAGE WINS with sally and MCR still living.

[Kath]

Though I'm not convinced anyone deserves the win after two modfires and one very lucky escape! :D

[Coppermirror]

So it was Greenie! I had no idea. Oh well, we lost. I could have voted on Day 4, but I still didn't know which out of MCR and Greenie was the wolf, and realistically the only person I could have voted for was Greenie. And if I'd done that and she'd turned out to be a wolf, it would have been unfair to have me going into the last Day, given that I wasn't going to be able to post.

The game was not exactly the epitome of sparkling reasoning and logic. :smokin: I managed to get through the whole game without finding my fellow wolves, and wondered whether we would be the first wolf team in history to all get mod-fired.

Here are my dreams and night kill lists.

Night 1 dream: Boromir.

Night 2 dream: Nogrod.
Night 2 list: Boromir, Shasta, Nerwen. (no kill)

Night 3 dream: Pom.
Night 3 list: A Little Green, Nogrod, Boromir. (Nogrod killed)

Night 4 dream: Sally
Night 4 list: Nerwen, Boromir, A Little Green. (Boromir killed)

I am a bit curious. Did the other wolves not send in a kill list on Night 2, or was it just bad luck we didn't get a kill?

[MCRmyGirl4eva]

All I can say is this: with only two females making up the entire remaining population of the village, there's no hope of bringing the population back! :p

Heh heh!

[satansaloser2005]

All I can say is this: with only two females making up the entire remaining population of the village, there's no hope of bringing the population back! :p

Heh heh!

People are dying to join WW games all the time. I think it's only fitting we're able to bring them back. Oh, Boro.... :Merisu:

[Coppermirror]

I kept notes about the game, though they tailed off when my activity did. It's a bit long, but I might as well post it.

Wolf Diary

Night 1

Dear Diary, I've been corrupted by the dark powers of Melkor! How thrilling.

At first I was misled by the instructions and thought that I had to send in a list on the first Night; thank goodness that isn't the case! I'd have had a much bigger risk of killing off my fellow wolves that way. Or being killed off myself. (For the record, the list would have been Shasta, A Little Green, and MCR, in that order.)

For my dream, I selected Boromir. My reasoning is that Boro is a bright chap and if he's not a wolf I can cheerfully try to kill him off next Night.

...And it seems he's innocent! And thus will be first on my list for killing tomorrow Night. I'll try to avoid getting him lynched by the village toDay if I can.

Day 1

Anything I say is going to have "I'm a wolf! Look at me, I'm a wolf!" over it in bright neon signs, isn't it? I'm too afraid to post! I'll be lynched in no time!

I've got to try persuading myself that I'm an innocent villager. I don't turn into a horrible monster, nope, not me.That's someone else. I just want to help the village, okay.

Okay, at least I've posted. It could have been worse. I may have had Wolf written all over me, but at least I did my best at thinking innocent. (I swear that I looked super suspicious on Day 1 back in the game where I actually was innocent.) From now on I'll try to be quiet. And even if people accuse me I need to stay calm, because this time I actually care about whether I get killed off.

I am in a spot of bother in this game, because I'm sure that experience really, really helps when one is a wolf, and although I've read old games I've only looked at them from the perspective of wanting the village to win.

I see that Rune and Boromir-the-innocent are around but haven't posted yet. Rune has also forgotten to set his status to invisible yet, wonder if I can learn anything from that. All I am seeing is that he's a fan of the Taters thread. And now I think he's invisible, hmm. Perhaps he's more likely to be innocent, if he forgot about that until now?

Right, I have my strategy. At least until I know the identity of any of the other wolves, I will be trying to be as genuinely helpful as I can, as if I was really an ordo. I really will play it just as if I was an ordo, although I will try to avoid saying things which look suspicious myself. I would probably have done that this time around even if I had been an ordo.

...And so I voted for Rune, because his post in the thread looked the most as if it fits a sensible wolf pattern. This really is what I would have done as an ordo. Maybe I'm a failure as a wolf.

Seriously, it has to be close to deadline. It's 8:41 GMT. Deadline is 10, I think. Four people still haven't shown up. And Pomegranate and Nerwen have yet to vote. Half an hour to go now. Maaaaan.

If MCR is a wolf, I'll have to remember to tell her to set her status to invisible.

And now there are three other people, probably players, invisible and reading the Middle Earth Mirth forum. With 23 minutes to go until deadline. :/

Fifteen minutes to go, no more posts. I can't believe it. Six people just haven't voted. Pom and Nerwen won't be mod-fired for this, as they posted, so they're the only ones who can safely do that. Pom is the only one in danger of being lynched. Can Kath really mod-fire 4 people?

It's interesting that Nogrod said anyone who came in at the last moment to decide the vote would be very suspicious the next day. Is that making it hard for the others to come in to vote late?

...

Yes, Rune was innocent! Though I feel bad for him. It wasn't fair.


Night 2

The narration was late? I must have had the timing wrong after all.

I've asked Kath whether the list and dream have to be sent together or whether they can be sent separately. My dream will be Nogrod, because he's looking sensible and posting a lot, and seems cautious and tricksy. If he's a wolf, he'll be very useful. If he's an innocent I'd like to kill him off nice and quickly. I hope that I'll be allowed to hear back about Kath about Nogrod's status before I have to send my list in.

If Nogrod is innocent, my list will be Boromir, Nogrod, and either Shasta or Nerwen. If he isn't or I don't get the info about him in time, my list will be Boromir, Shasta, Nerwen.

My impression of Nerwen today was that she's probably innocent. I'm certain that she's a very formidable player. And Shasta has to not be a wolf sometime, and apparently he is a psychic, so if he's innocent I want rid of him.

Nogrod was correct when he said that the loudest and best-known players would be at much more risk. I'm targeting intelligent players with reputations for being dangerous, partially because they are more likely to have (a) been the subject of other wolves' dreams, and (b) because they are more likely to be on their lists. If I don't find a wolf, I will find someone I'd like to knock out of the game.

The fact that four players didn't show is a big problem for me. And for the innocents, for that matter. It's hard to predict how many dreams any potential wolf or Seer has had. Did they really not know the game was on? If they didn't, then they won't have had any Night 1 dream. If there are multiple wolves who didn't show, this is super bad. And worse if they get mod-fired. I would be worried about this as a ordo, too, because I would want to predict the times when the wolves were likely to have made contact and try to see how their behaviour changes, and with this, that just throws any best estimates out of the window. Really, it's as if the village is searching for three opposing Seers.

And Kath's got back to me about the question – we don't get the answers until the lists are sent in, and we also don't get the dream answers until the deadline, because otherwise the wolves get too much power. (I'm probably getting on Kath's nerves, asking so many questions.) Unless Kath makes a note of this publicly, I have to remember that as a totally innocent villager who doesn't eat people in honour of the mighty Melkor, I don't have all these details and I don't know how the wolf rules work.

Ouch, though, so if we dream of a wolf, we really don't get a chance to contact them until the next Night.

On the bright side: this may suggest that the wolves aren't facing a worst-case scenario where, say, the other wolves are among the people who didn't show, and they didn't get a dream either Night. And...if I want to read a lot into this that probably isn't there at all, perhaps it looks as if the Seer is in danger. Could be Boromir or Nogrod.

Here's hoping I'm neither getting killed off toNight by my fellow lupines, or killing them off.

Day 2

Nogrod is innocent, and no name on my list was on another list, so there was no kill! I'm guessing that if another wolf did send in a list, Nogrod was probably on it.

Hmm, hmm! There must be something I can gleam from this. And Nogrod, you're looking far too sensible this Day 2, so you'll be at the very top of my list toNight.

Possibilities:

- two wolves didn't send in a list, and the rules mean there can't be a kill until they're modfired/start sending in lists.
Here's hoping this is not the case.

- one wolf didn't send in a list, and the wolf who did simply did not have any of the same names listed.
This would mean that Shasta and Nerwen are more likely to be wolves. Or that the wolf didn't have a chance to dream of them. Which is quite possible.

- three wolves sent a list, but we just happened to not have the same names on there.
Which would likewise make it more likely that Shasta and Nerwen are wolves.

- the other wolves are in touch, but that reduced the kill chances.
If that is so, again, I really don't want to kill Shasta and Nerwen. They were likely dream targets.

The possibility of people getting mod-fired is a serious headache. If the Seer is active and not on the mod-firing block themselves, they're far more likely to have dreamt last Night of yesterDay's most active players, of which I'm one. The Night 1 dream could have been of anyone.

Oh dear. RL triumphs. At this point I need to seriously consider whether I have time to continue in the game. I've posted to that effect. It will be interesting to see whether the other wolves and the Seer will still want to dream of me, knowing that I'm likely to get myself mod-fired sooner or later.

And right towards the deadline, things have got interesting!

I have a horrible feeling I've just voted for a Shastawolf. I'm a terrible wolf. I think I would have voted for him as an Ordo too.

"And I do still think trying to signal other wolves is a wolf's number one priority..." - Nogrod.

Oh no, no. I'm not even trying to do that. I'm relying on the dreams and then the Night PMs. Granted, I don't know of any other wolves to signal to.

Please, vote for Boromir! Boromir! Look at those beady eyes, those sharp teeth! Obviously he is a vile wolf-servant of Melkor.

Damn. Nogrod is bright, he voted for Nerwen. But now it's a six way tie. Maybe I can make him look suspicious for this tomorrow?

Sally, vote for Boromir, please!

...She voted Nog. AHAHAHAHAHAHA the narration is going to be priceless. I love this game.

Oh, too bad, her vote was just too late to count. Let's see what happens.

Oops.

Wait, no, I read it wrong! Shasta was innocent, thank goodness. I thought for a second that I'd killed off a fellow wolf, and I was sad.

But Skip was a wolf. Well, he was useless anyway. (Sorry, man.)

Both times I've voted for an innocent who's been lynched. Hell yes, I have the magic touch! Just not when it comes to killing innocents during the Night.

That was some of the best narration I've seen. Six way tie, yeeeeesss.

Anyway, this explains why the wolves couldn't hit a target.

ToNight I need to nab the Seer. I'd, uh, forgotten about them a bit.


Night 3

I'm really hoping that the other wolf will contact me toNight. It's a long shot: will they really suspect me enough to dream of me?

If MCR is a wolf, I tell you, the wolves are screwed. And I will attempt to go down in a blaze of glory before I get mod-fired, as long as it doesn't take up much time. I can't waste a dream on her. We could have the dubious honour of being the first (?) wolf team to all get mod-fired.


Day 3

My dream was Pom, who's innocent.

My list was A Little Green, Nogrod, Boromir. Nogrod was killed.

And I am ten kinds of not happy because after writing up an analysis of Nogrod, I now think the Seer is probably Boromir. I was hoping to kill him off today by lynching, but that was a miscalculation. He needed to be killed during the Night so that there'd be no opportunity for him to reveal. I didn't think that Nogrod was the Seer, so he was a bad choice. (A Little Green was there in first place to test whether she was on the list.)

I'm not sure how much more use I'll be to the wolves from now on. I may not be able to post on either Day 4 or Day 5 (should I live that long) so I'll surely be mod-fired.


Night 4

Dream: Sally, innocent.

Votes: Nerwen, Boromir, A Little Green.

Day 4

Boromir got killed, and Nerwen's the Seer. I thought she might be, after something she said yesterDay. If only I'd been in touch with my fellow wolf, we could've killed her off last night. Oh well. I thought her gambit at the start with the Sauron eye might be a Seer-hint, but was most likely a joke or an ordo trying to get attention. It should've been voting time, but ah well.

Anyway, so either MCR or Greenie is a wolf. I'm in a bad position, because of MCR's vote for me. (I wonder if she voted for me because I was the last person alive to be suspicious of her...)

If it's MCR: she's voted for me, so she'll be no help. But I can try to get Greenie lynched, if the others vote for her, and I can add my vote too. There's nothing else I can do. But I probably don't need to do so unless Greenie votes for me.

And in the end, I decided not to vote at all, so I got lynched! (It's tough to be a creature of Melkor in this village, I tell you.) I still don't know whether MCR or Greenie is the wolf. It's probably better for me to be out the game and for them to still have a fighting chance. Though, it looks as if Sally is suspecting Greenie pretty hard. Poor Sally! Tomorrow will be interesting, anyway, though I'm not sure when I'll get to read it. If there's no kill, presumably MCR was the wolf and I can regret not killing off Greenie.

In favour of MCR Wolf: Her status was never set to invisible, and I would imagine Kath would have noticed that by now and said something if she was sending her PMs. It would explain why the people MCR suspected during the Day were the ones picked off in order during the Night. It'd also explain why she kept trying to stay in the game despite being unable to participate most of the time.

In favour of A Little Green Wolf: I put her at the top of my kill list once, and she didn't die. So a little more likely to be a wolf. Sally says she's acting like she does as a wolf. If what she said in-game was true, then she doesn't suspect me at all, which would explain why she didn't dream of me.

There's an outside chance that perhaps Nerwen is the wolf and MCR is the Seer. And that would be a pretty amazing gambit. But I don't think it can be true, because if it is, toMorrow Nerwen won't die during the Night, and she'll get lynched. It could only be a concerted effort to get Greenie lynched, and if so, it would absolutely rely on me turning up to vote, in which case...uh...it's not good, and I apologise for letting the pack down. But I did warn in advance that I might well not be here.

Night 5

n/a

Day 5

Am still dead, and now Seer-Nerwen is too.

And there has been only one, solitary post to the thread since Kath-mod's in the morning, and that was Sally. Poor Sally! That is rough. MCR and Greenie are nowhere to be seen.

If the wolf is MCR, I can't really complain, since my message on the admin thread was partially to say that it's okay to throw me to the wolves, because I wouldn't be able to continue with the game. Wait, no, I am the wolves! Under a bus, then. If it's Greenie, she had no choice but to vote for me, especially in the knowledge that I wouldn't be around later anyway.

[Nerwen]

You actually did very well, Cop. It's hard enough for a wolf-cub to survive in an ordinary game, let alone this!

[Nogrod]

This sure merits the category of the weirdest games... :)

One wolf never showed up, the two others never got to know each other, we villagers were totally in the dark... and in the three-way game, the unknown innocent makes a huge mistake saying "she doesn't trust" the other unknown (aka. the Wolf). God forbid Sally ignored that obvious wolfy-slip and voted for the real wolf...

So it was up to Sally to win the day! *Bows* (I would have taken MCR's "slip" at the face value anf voted her for definitively being the last wolf)

Well done Coppermirror! A very good game - although you remind me too much of Inzil who also is an active player but one of which you just can't take a hold on as everything he says is kind of vague in the end... But yes, well done!

And Greenie! Blah! I should have suspected you heavily because you were so easy on me... I mean that means you have something to hide. Otherwise you suspect me. And I think you were quite good at the end - Sally just had enough to suspect you to trust her reasons over your very well thought last post after MCR's fumble.

Sorry Nerwen that I suspected you once again - hearing of your death and being the seer kind of explained if not all then some any way. :)

Thank God it was a short game as I've had really busy days about, but next time I'd hope there would be more active villagers around to make it a real Game.

Thanks to Kath for running this! It was fun as long as it lasted. And if we were a bit sluggish, that was not your fault. *Kudos*