Where did Gandalf go?

[Merlinus Ambrosius]

In TTT, when Gandalf is telling Aragorn and Co. about how he defeated the Balrog, he mentions something that I find puzzling. It's in Chapter 5, and it's right after he talks about throwing the Balrog down Celebdil. Anyhow, he says that:

"then darkness took me and I strayed out of thought and time, and I wandered far on roads that I will not tell. Naked I was sent back--for a brief time, until my task is done."

So where did he go? One of my friends said that he went to "hell". However, the part stating that he was sent back seems to point to the notion that he was in Valinor, but then again, why would he lose his memory? Anybody want to shed some light on this.

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

I always took to believing that he was dead and then brought back to life as Gandalf the White...

please, someone correct me if I am wrong.

[Guildo]

I dont believe this is entirely correct but this is what i have enterpreted and like to believe...........

After an Unimaginable Battle as only two Maiar of their stature can have, Gandalf stumbled about Middle Earth Naked and so Battle worn he was Wandering Aimlessly not knowing his purpose or Most of his Many names. Then at the comand of Manwe, Gwaihir found him and bore him to Lothlorien where Gwaihir gave him the Councilings of Manwe, and where Galdriel counciled him as well reinforming of who he is if you will, and By the message of Manwe and aproval of Galadriel he was apointed head of the White Council.
Remember out of all the istari sent to ME Gandalf feared Sauron the most, as well as he wanted to stay in Valinor for he loved it more than the others. and for this reason Manwe though him most Apprpriate for the Quest.

[O'Boile]

Gandalf's body almost certainly did die, but his Maiar spirit which was incarnated in that body probably did not. His spirit would have tried to (and probably did) return to the west, but was sent back to re-inhabit the fallen (human) body so that he could complete his mission. As a Maiar, I'm not sure that it is possible to actually kill gandalf. However as an Istari, he inhabited a human body that could be slain (note that this is different than if he had formed his own body like Maiar normally did. That is why Sauron reforms his body whenever he is defeated).

[Merlinus Ambrosius]

So the paths that he wondered that he would not name would be refering to a spirit world almost? Because to me, and I could be misguided here, the fact that he would not name the paths would almost seem to make those very paths dark and perhaps borderline evil. I mean, if he had really gone to Valinor, surely he would have made mention of going west, even if he didn't actually say where it was he went.
And if his body died, how could his spirit reinhabit it? Wouldn't he have had to be given a new one?

[Guildo]

I came up with my theory becouse i remember reading that he mentioned the Fact that Gwaihir carried him after the battle with the Balrog, as well having council with Galadriel. If he did infact die his Human body would have been (like Sarumans) destroyed and his spirit would not have needed to be carried by Gwaihir.

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

I suppose I was a little brief... I didn't mean "dead" exactly, I meant indeed that his spirit had left his body. I swear I remember reading about it somewhere, but I can't for the life of me find it! So many books, so many books!!!

[Legolas]

Over the river and through the woods to his grandmother's house. She cooked a mmmeeeaaannn cheesecake.

[O'Boile]

I came up with my theory becouse i remember reading that he mentioned the Fact that Gwaihir carried him after the battle with the Balrog, as well having council with Galadriel. If he did infact die his Human body would have been (like Sarumans) destroyed and his spirit would not have needed to be carried by Gwaihir.
In the book he says 'Then darkness took me, and I strayed out of thought and time, and I wandered far on roads that I will not tell.'
This to me implies he died (I've never heard otherwise until this thread). Remember that the body was not really part of Gandalf. If it was killed, it probably could be re-animated, since it would have had to have been given life in the first place when the spirit of gandalf inhabited it.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Your friend's answer is actually the opposite of what occurred. The answer to this lies in a letter written by Tolkien (#156) to his friend Father Murray in 1954. In this letter, Tolkien addresses the precise question and quote which you mention.

The author says Gandalf was initially sent to Middle-earth by the dictates of the Valar and ordered to help with the crisis which Sauron's presence represented. He was one of five Istari who took on this mission, and he was the only one who succesfully carried out his task. The Valar placed strict limits on the power of these Istari. They were to "train, advise, instruct, arouse the hearts and minds of those threatened by Sauron to a resistence with their own strengths; and not just to do the job for them."

When Gandalf came to Middle-earth, he took on an incarnate body. This means that he had a physical being which was capable of feeling pain and weariness and also of being killed. Tolkien says that the critical point at the Bridge was Gandalf's willingness to sacrifice himself, to allow himself to be killed, and to obey the rules which Eru had set up. (Note: Whenever Tolkien refers to the "Authority", he is describing Eru.) Gandalf dies, and is changed. But this change comes not from the Valar, but from Eru.

Here are some quotes illustrating this from the letter:

Regarding Gandalf's sacrifice: "He was handing over to the Authority that ordained the Rules, and giving up personal hope of success."

Regarding his change by Eru and his return to Middle Earth: "He was sent by a mere prudent plan of the angelic Valar or governors; but Authority had taken up this plan and enlarged it, at the moment of its failure. 'Naked I was sent back--for a brief time, until my task is done.' Sent back by whom, and whence? Not by the 'gods' whose business is only with this embodied world and its time; for he passed 'out of thought and time.'[i]Naked is alas! unclear. It was meant just literally 'unclothed like a child' (not discarnate), and so ready to receive the white robes of the highest. Galadriel's power is not divine, and his healing in Lorien is meant to be no more than physical healing and refreshment."

Hope this helps. By the by, Gandalf's mandate to act was also expanded by Eru at this time. Although he was still encouraged to teach and inspire the people of Middle-earth, he was now allowed to take direct action himself in cases where the "physical powers of the Enemy are too great for the good will of the opposers to be effective."

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

[ August 28, 2002: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[Merlinus Ambrosius]

Ah, that makes sense.

By the way, what is the name of that book with all Tolkeins letters in it? That sounds like something I ought to read.

[Child of the 7th Age]

Merlinus Ambrosius --

The Letters of J.R.R. Tolkien, edited by Humphrey Carpenter. I have it in paperback. It is tremendously helpful on a lot of questions. I believe you can order it by clicking into the bookstore on the Downs.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit