Game thread - Werewolf C - The Father Christmas Murders [Archive]

Loslote

12-21-2012, 10:00 PM

Suzy Snowflake hurried down the street, clutching her lace white shawl to her against the sudden flurry of wind and snow. She was nearly home, and she'd be so glad to sleep in her own bed after so long abroad.

"Well, well, well," she heard echoing around the walls of the quiet buildings along the quiet street. She paused.

"Hello?" she called timidly.

"I think we've figured out who's causing this little blizzard of ours," chuckled a second voice.

"We can't have Christmas without a little snow," said the first.

"Good," said the second.

Suzy was beginning to back away nervously when the two stepped out of the fog towards her. She instantly relaxed. "Oh, it's just you two!" she said with a laugh. "I must have been away for too long - I've gotten paranoid!"

"Too long, yes, you have," murmured the one on the left. "We've been waiting for you."

"Oh, is there going to be a Christmastown party?" Suzy asked brightly.

"You could say that."

"Oh, how lovely! Will there be presents?" Suzy clapped her hands in delight.

"Left on everyone's doorstep."

Suzy beamed. "And decorations?"

"Of course."

"And punch and eggnog?"

"Well, drinks, at any rate."

Suzy blinked. "No eggnog?"

"I'm not a fan."

"But where's your Christmas spirit?" Suzy asked in dismay. "You have to have eggnog at Christmas! It's a tradition!"

"I'm a modern man, myself," the quieter of the two announced. "I make my own traditions."

With that, the two stepped forward and threw electric blankets over her head. Suzy shrieked, but the sound was too muffled to attract attention. The two swaddled her up in more electric blankets until she couldn't move an inch, then left her lying in the street.

"And they swaddled her in cloth and laid her in the street, because there was no room for her in their plans," chortled the first.

"New traditions, indeed," murmured the second.

As Suzy Snowflake's trademark snow fell on her, the electric blankets quickly melted it into a pool of water...which soon rose high enough to short out the carefully exposed wires that warmed the blanket. Suzy's muffled screams echoed the electric shocks until she screamed no more.

That morning, as the sun rose and pierced the fog, the inhabitants of Christmastown didn’t take long to discover the body. The smoke and steam acted like a beacon, leading directly to Suzy’s blanket-entombed body.

“What happened?” Olive asked. “Things like this never happened back home! Or, at least, not since we trapped the postman at the zoo.”

“I can’t imagine it was an accident,” The Grinch said.

“I foretold you so,” the Ghost of Christmas Present wailed mournfully.

Jack Frost slammed his fists into a nearby wall. “How could this happen?” he snarled.

“Suzy never hurt a soul,” the Sugar Plum Fairy said sadly. “All the children loved her.”

“Whoever did this, if they could kill Suzy, they could kill anyone,” Valkotukka said.

“We’ve got to find who did this,” Santa said.

“Before they kill again,” Paksu agreed.

“Oh, sure,” Tiny Tim said, “and how are we going to find the murderers? Look for fingerprints on the electricity burns?”

“And besides, they’re probably standing here among us,” Rudolph said. “How can we trust anyone?”

“We can’t,” Frosty said. “We’d better go by majority vote, or we’ll never know for sure.”

“And then what do we do with them, once we’ve found them?” Little Cindy Lou Who asked.

“Kill them,” Jack Frost growled. “Kill them, like they killed Suzy.”

A silence fell over the group as they realized what they were about to do. Then, as the sun finally crested the mountains, the group nodded solemnly, one by one.

Living

Sally - Little Cindy Lou Who
Shasta - Jack Frost
G55 - Rudolph
Coppermirror - The Ghost of Christmas Present
Steve - Valkotukka
Morsul - The Grinch
Nerwen - The Sugar Plum Fairy
Zil - Frosty
Boro - Olive the Other Reindeer
McCaber - Tiny Tim
Lommy - Paksu
Legate - Santa Claus

Dead

Lottie - Suzy the Snowflake - Moddess

Day 1 has begun. Wolves, stop talking to each other. Village, good luck!

Galadriel55

12-21-2012, 10:08 PM

Shoty first post.

Just realized that I'm actually barely going to be home tomorrow, but hopefully enough to post meaningful stuff. I'll vote, but I can't guarantee 100% participation.

Galadriel55

12-21-2012, 10:10 PM

PS: We should make a monument of snow in Suzy's honour. Make a giant snowflake snowman!...

Boromir88

12-21-2012, 10:21 PM

okokclak onk owk clik ockockwonk

(Hopefully someone here knows how to translate reindeer speech :p)

Morsul the Dark

12-21-2012, 10:39 PM

What a Fright and nasty Shock!
Time's shrt mind the ticking ticking Clock
We can not stop for meals
until we settle these ordeals
So take away the platter Sam
Take away the Green Eggs and Ham
To stop this nasty snow? That's just Fine!
But to kill? That crosses a line!
A pair of nasties we need stop
cut out their gizzard and off their heads with a chop
I don't like it all It's all too mean
And that's coming from someone who is Green
Trully the three wrds that best describe these beast are as follows and I quote: Stink Stank Stunk!
We must hunt them down I say get out f this terrible funk.
End their plans ploys
silence their noise noise noise!

....sorry had way to much fun with that ended up longer than I meant:rolleyes:

Pretty basic:
two baddies
one Cobbler
one ranger
one seer

Lets us hunt quickly and ring in the new year with a Village Victory Huzzah!

Morsul the Dark

12-21-2012, 10:40 PM

okokclak onk owk clik ockockwonk

(Hopefully someone here knows how to translate reindeer speech :p)

Well I never!;)

Coppermirror

12-21-2012, 10:43 PM

Did I not tell you that upon the forehead of Suzy Snowflake, that which is Doom was written? Alas that you did not listen.

Hark! Once more, that which is Doom is written upon the forehead of one of our number. We must erase that writing, or else bide our time until the end.

A monument for Suzy Snowflake is a fine idea. I shall be glad to assist its construction; such a jolly thing would do honour to her. But still - beware, beware!

Nerwen

12-21-2012, 11:13 PM

okokclak onk owk clik ockockwonk

(Hopefully someone here knows how to translate reindeer speech :p)

*pirouettes in, scattering sugarplums*

Ah! Allow me!

Consulting Reindeer for Beginners, I find that

"okokclak onk owk clik ockockwonk"

translates to

"I am a werewolf disguised as a terrier disguised as a reindeer. Please lynch me before I die of confusion."

Well, well!

Coppermirror

12-21-2012, 11:35 PM

Is that so? Borolive, what have you to say for yourself?

P.S.

My friends, beware of sinister footsteps in the snow! Their specific size and shape I do not know, but truly the prints of evil are amongst us.

Legate of Amon Lanc

12-22-2012, 04:40 AM

If it is supposed to be an investigation, then let's make it a proper one. I suggest starting by making a house-search in every place. If we can't get into some houses, I'm pretty good in crawling down chimneys.

So otherwise, as for more practical questions... maybe one thing that should be cleared about the rules (maybe the Moddess should actually answer this, if she happens to be reading?), the Cobbler does count in the tally as innocent or as Wolf? (As in, if it's e.g. 2 Wolves, a Cobbler and three innocents... though maybe it doesn't matter in the end, since in such a case the point is anyway avoiding the stage when it's 2 Wolves, a Cobbler and two innocents.) And regarding Seer-dreams, since it hasn't been mentioned in the rules, I assume the Cobbler shows normally as Cobbler to the Seer, and not as innocent, like it was in some games...

I think, since somebody has mentioned this as well, I might remark that I might be slightly less active these days than usual, too, but I think it should not really be that much less. I'll be back again and around, also once more people show up, with some initial impressions...

Thinlómien

12-22-2012, 04:42 AM

*pirouettes in, scattering sugarplums*

Ah! Allow me!

Consulting Reindeer for Beginners, I find that

"okokclak onk owk clik ockockwonk"

translates to

"I am a werewolf disguised as a terrier disguised as a reindeer. Please lynch me before I die of confusion."

Well, well!Oh, really? My book gives:

"I am a cobbler disguised as an ordo disguised as a reindeer. Wolves please not my future use of reindeer language."

;)

Inziladun

12-22-2012, 06:41 AM

Oh dear me. Poor Suzy! I start to melt just thinking about it!
Please do me a favor, and keep an eye out for the sun. It and I don't get along so well.

PS: We should make a monument of snow in Suzy's honour. Make a giant snowflake snowman!...

All right, but that snowman will have to have a hat of their own. This one's taken! ;)

Thinlómien

12-22-2012, 09:36 AM

Sally - Little Cindy Lou Who
Little Cindy Lou Who exactly. Hasn't been around.

Shasta - Jack Frost
Has probably frozen so can't type.

G55 - Rudolph
Already making apologies and excuses. How furry! Oh, I guess reindeer have furs... or do you call them pelts? Hides?

Coppermirror - The Ghost of Christmas Present
Never played with him/her before. Only saw Bêthberry asking on Facebook who admits playing werewolf under the name Coppermirror on the 'downs. I assume this means I have to be wary. ;)

Steve - Valkotukka
If we had a werebear in the village, I know where I'd be pointing at.

Morsul - The Grinch
I remember why he always instantly makes my alarm bells ring. Trying to ignore it as well as I can...

Nerwen - The Sugar Plum Fairy
Her PT doesn't really match with her words. :p

Zil - Frosty
A pity it's holiday season so he's not playing ww on his work time. Other than that, nothing to say. :D

Boro - Olive the Other Reindeer
Sending fishy coded messages in reindeer speech - lynch him!

McCaber - Tiny Tim
Didn't see him yet, did we?

Lommy - Paksu
Has a fitting name, that's all.

Legate - Santa Claus
Still laughing at this casting. I liked his asking the clarifying questions, but it of course doesn't prove anything.

Boromir88

12-22-2012, 09:58 AM

Is it sad I watched 3 different videos of reindeer calls to try and get the sounds as accurately as possible? It was like a cross between a pig and a wookie.

Inziladun

12-22-2012, 10:11 AM

Is it sad I watched 3 different videos of reindeer calls to try and get the sounds as accurately as possible? It was like a cross between a pig and a wookie.

Be careful. That sound (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Gaga) has likely been patented. :D

satansaloser2005

12-22-2012, 10:28 AM

I'm sorry I've just shown up. I've just *sobs* I've been crying all Day. Why would someone do something so horrible to Suzy? :(

Boromir88

12-22-2012, 10:56 AM

And here's what I've concluded so far...

Nothing new to say:

Sally and Shasta have yet to appear. Slow to get moving, but they will come.

Nerwen participates early, but will forget to vote today. I would say though, since we've already had the apocalypse, you can vote Day 1 and you don't have to feel like you're ending the world?

Those who have early on made me laugh:

Morsul's poetry was a lot better than Bombadil banging on about water lilies. Also, better than anything you get out those terrible poetry readings from psuedo-poets that get you so depressed you wish you would have snuck in that bottle of bourbon.

Zil's latest post, heh sounding like a cross between a pig and a wookie...classic.

Why so serious?

Legate - Could have possibly put him up in the first one, since it is nothing new for Legate to be all business, even on holiday leave...well actually I suppose this is the busiest time of the season for him. Watch and Wait.

Why so seriously unserious?

G55 - the snowflake snowman monument combined with

Lommy - List of people post is about as telling as mine. But where mine is seriously acknowledged as limitted to start and help me categorizing people (yep, sorry I fit people into personal compartments). I can't tell if Lommy's is a serious attempt to look unserious and random. Or if it's an unserious attempt to start the serious suspicion train a moving.

Coppermirror - What do I say about Nerwen's translation? It's quite wrong, but as the Sugar Plum Fairy I imagine she went for the literal translation just looking at a "Reindeer to Fairy dictionary." She clearly did not pick up the slight phonetic alterations between the ock and ok which significantly changes the meaning.

Boromir88

12-22-2012, 11:14 AM

G55 - the snowflake snowman monument combined with

And somehow I just stopped mid thought here...should be combined with a "I won't be here, but I kinda will" first post. Because as far as I know, reindeer don't have construction skills, it's why we have elves.

Shastanis Althreduin

12-22-2012, 01:24 PM

Apologies. I was dealing with the weather; it will snow upon Suzy's grave forever more. And no, I'm not telling you what I had to promise the North Wind for that little favor.

Morsul the Dark

12-22-2012, 02:19 PM

Oh dear me. Poor Suzy! I start to melt just thinking about it!
Please do me a favor, and keep an eye out for the sun. It and I don't get along so well.

All right, but that snowman will have to have a hat of their own. This one's taken! ;)

Not sure why... but read this in a dixie southern woman's voice and it was Hilarious anyway catching up on what little is here...

Galadriel55

12-22-2012, 02:36 PM

And somehow I just stopped mid thought here...should be combined with a "I won't be here, but I kinda will" first post. Because as far as I know, reindeer don't have construction skills, it's why we have elves.

Hey! Don't you underestimate reindeer abilities!

...Wait, you are one.

:p

Morsul the Dark

12-22-2012, 02:47 PM

Is it sad I watched 3 different videos of reindeer calls to try and get the sounds as accurately as possible? It was like a cross between a pig and a wookie.

Is it sad after reading this, I watched any videos I could find with reindeer sounds to see if there was a certain call being imitated, to be interpretted?

I think this will be a silly game. And thank you for your kind words of my rambling Seussosity.

Galadriel55

12-22-2012, 02:58 PM

...whatever the above is supposed to mean.

Legate's post made me laugh about the first part and go "well, that's a valid question" in the second part. Modlote, if you happen to read this, I add my voice to the plea for elaboration.

Boro makes a semi-serious post, which I'm not sure how to interpret. I can't really tell how seriously it should be taken. But it's a good attempt to transition people from IC to the real stuff.

Not much beyond this. Except for the Reindeer talk translations. I was trying to piece it together for a while, what would it mean if Lommy/Nerwen/Boro had certain roles, but then gave up on it because it's semi-banter and while it could be a message it could just be banter and it's useless to go in this endless cycle. Message! Banter! Message! Banter!...

Hopefully this will get some talk started.

I'll be around every now and then between now and DL, cause the day turned out less busy than I thought. Goodie.

EDIT: xed with Morsul

Galadriel55

12-22-2012, 03:00 PM

Is it sad after reading this, I watched any videos I could find with reindeer sounds to see if there was a certain call being imitated, to be interpretted?

Is it sad that I was just doing the same thing too some 5 minutes ago? :eek:

Morsul the Dark

12-22-2012, 03:02 PM

Not, sure if I'll be back before DL... A lot of people not even gotten a chance to speak yet...

Loslote

12-22-2012, 03:12 PM

So otherwise, as for more practical questions... maybe one thing that should be cleared about the rules (maybe the Moddess should actually answer this, if she happens to be reading?), the Cobbler does count in the tally as innocent or as Wolf?

Innocent. (Does the Cobbler ever count as a Wolf? I don't think I've played that way before.)

And regarding Seer-dreams, since it hasn't been mentioned in the rules, I assume the Cobbler shows normally as Cobbler to the Seer, and not as innocent, like it was in some games...

That is correct.

Legate of Amon Lanc

12-22-2012, 04:19 PM

To the Moddess, thanks for clarification, now to the rest...

Okay, I do not want to start sounding like Nog... and I won't, I will just say that had he been here, we'd have been likely all mass-lynched by now. I am not blameless myself and I do not take away anyone's right to post random IC banter and so on... I think in fact it was quite refreshing, let's have fun, but.

But as the Day goes on, and more people show, even though not all yet (due to timezones or whatever), but if you are around, and not sure you are coming back, then you might at least try to post something beyond the IC banter *looks at Mr.Grinch*

Not the least because timezone-wise, I will probably have to cast my vote in something like two, three hours (well, and the rest of us will have to cast it a couple of hours after that anyway). And I would not like it to go that randomly as it seems to me now.

Because what do we have of substance? Truthfully, nothing, unless all those, very many, sometimes even long IC posts contain some hints and secret meanings. Which I am pretty sure some do. After all, we have a Cobbler. However, the problem is we are not really trying to catch the Cobbler, but the Wolves.

So actually if I were to throw an utterly random guess, I'd look for people who might look like Cobblers and people who might try to "answer" to these people. Boro-Nerwen-Lommy exchange is what sort of stands out in this respect from the general banter, however there is nothing more about it than that it stands out (and then of course one can question how much of that is a joke or observation of warning against the Wolves - especially referring to Lommy's post now - and so on).

But well! Maybe people can actually start telling their opinions on some of these things (or others), so that we can move a bit before the DL? (I really hate sounding this starchy, but.)

Boromir88

12-22-2012, 04:53 PM

Well, it really just comes down to a normal Day 1 conundrum.

1. No information to base much of anything on.
2. Wait to see if someone else does something in order to start
3. Leads to a bunch of staring, as the best information comes in the forms of the voting record (excluding gifted information/reveals)
4. Go back to 1. No votes = no information.

I suppose others comments on the Lommy-Nerwen-Me posts will be as good of a starting point as any other. Personally, I would put Copper in there too, who asked what I had to say about Nerwen's translation.

McCaber

12-22-2012, 05:06 PM

*cough cough*

Sorry I'm late, folks. It's this leg, you see. I can't get around fast enough on these crutches.

That means it's my responsibility to get abandoned in the inevitable wolf chase scene. I'm sure none of you would have an objection to leaving the pitiful cripple behind for the wolves?

...

(please have an objection to leaving the cripple behind for the wolves)

Morsul the Dark

12-22-2012, 05:07 PM

Coppermirror

12-22-2012, 05:08 PM

I'm unsure what tactic we ought to take. I'm adoring the fun banter on this Day, but that won't help us to catch the villains. Then again, setting up some sort of scheme that would soon be discarded might be a waste of time too, unless someone has a really good suggestion and it can be implemented quickly.

I know! We must let the joy of Christmas fill our hearts. The fiends we are facing have tightly wound hearts which hate Christmas, like that miser Scrooge. When they speak of their love of the season, they may betray themselves inadvertently.

Coppermirror - The Ghost of Christmas Present
Never played with him/her before. Only saw Bêthberry asking on Facebook who admits playing werewolf under the name Coppermirror on the 'downs. I assume this means I have to be wary. ;)

I'm but a harmless Ghost who likes to spread good cheer. :)

This is my third game. I'd read a lot of old games (starting from the oldest games, in order) as a hobby of mine before signing up for my first game, so I sounded a lot better informed than the average newbie Werewolf player, and a few people got suspicious about whether I could be someone who'd played before under a new name or somebody who had experience with the game elsewhere. But, that really was my first game of Werewolf or anything like it. I made plenty of newbie mistakes in my first game, but they just weren't the type of newbie mistakes people were most used to. Being informed about theory doesn''t make up for lack of experience.

Shastanis Althreduin

12-22-2012, 05:17 PM

I'm around, relatively, but there just hasn't really been anything that's caught my eye enough to mention. :confused: I'm going to go eat, then have another read - it's all been pretty quiet, thus far. Legate seems to be the only person really discussing much.

Inziladun

12-22-2012, 05:24 PM

Apologies. I was dealing with the weather; it will snow upon Suzy's grave forever more. And no, I'm not telling you what I had to promise the North Wind for that little favor.

Sounds like a guilty conscience to me. :p

Not sure why... but read this in a dixie southern woman's voice and it was Hilarious

Well, I could speak it that way quite convincingly...the Dixie part, that is. ;)

Not much beyond this. Except for the Reindeer talk translations. I was trying to piece it together for a while, what would it mean if Lommy/Nerwen/Boro had certain roles, but then gave up on it because it's semi-banter and while it could be a message it could just be banter and it's useless to go in this endless cycle. Message! Banter! Message! Banter!...

I've looked into the matter. However, I don't think speculation of any real meaning would be useful at this point, and it could be damaging, at least to those in the Christmas spirit...

x/d with Shasta

McCaber

12-22-2012, 05:29 PM

Going totally by my gut, I suspect Legate Claus. Nothing happens in this town without the Big Man knowing about it.

Last I checked, reindeer and wolves were mortal enemies. Which means Boro's probably on the level. Unless he sold us out in exchange for safe passage.

CM I have no experience with, so I'm going to leave him be for now.

Shasta, like myself, has a history of saying much less than he thinks. His instincts are usually pretty correct unless something changed massively in the past year or so I've been away.

G55 and Boro have been first to the analysis of posts. But it's early yet, and for Day1 things aren't going too badly.

Coppermirror

12-22-2012, 05:33 PM

It looks as if the only discussion point we have at the moment is about Reindeer language and the assorted translations and comments on it. On the face of it, that all looks like 100% innocent banter to me, and I wouldn't feel at all confident about voting for anyone based on that.

But, I've been wrong about apparently meaningless first Day banter before. I'll have another look as see if, IDK, there are any secret messages hidden in those posts, and then see if I can scrape together any actual suspicions of anyone from the little there is to go on.

Inziladun

12-22-2012, 05:37 PM

Going totally by my gut, I suspect Legate Claus. Nothing happens in this town without the Big Man knowing about it.

Singing a slaying song, is he? :eek:

Man, I need to try for once getting all my Christmas stuff done sooner. My brief skims of this haven't led to much thus far, but we've still got some time.

Thinlómien

12-22-2012, 05:44 PM

Ugh. I should really go to sleep and vote (in the opposite order of course) and I really have no idea what to think, say or vote. Hmm. Another list in order? Seems like the easiest way to think...

Thinlómien

12-22-2012, 05:53 PM

Sally - nothing to say this far.
Shasta - the same.
G55 - well I wasn't only joking when I noted she was being apologetic. She's not saying much although she's been around - then again, who has?
Coppermirror - one of the ones that don't seem suspicious at all to me.
Steve - not here.
Morsul - actually, I think he seems pretty innocent right now. I would still appreciate if he clarified the stuff he's hinting at.
Nerwen - hasn't said much of importance.
Zil - seems to be using his time on bantering. I'm not sure if it's suspicious or sort of pre-Christmas laziness that I feel a victim of myself.
Boro - Othe one whose posts have been the most interesting this far. Not that I can make much out of them. I mostly rely on my gut-feeling when it comes to Boro, and I haven't got one yet in this game.
McCaber - seems pretty fair this far.
Legate - can't judge this far, but I'm not alarmed.

So who to vote? Absolutely no idea... let me think.

Thinlómien

12-22-2012, 06:00 PM

Lommy - List of people post is about as telling as mine. But where mine is seriously acknowledged as limitted to start and help me categorizing people (yep, sorry I fit people into personal compartments). I can't tell if Lommy's is a serious attempt to look unserious and random. Or if it's an unserious attempt to start the serious suspicion train a moving.I wanted to write a serious post but I realised pretty soon there's really nothing to go on by, so it ended up being 85% jokey. But I did pay attention to G55 apologies-in-advance and to your post which could have included a coded message. (To be fair, so could have Morsul's poetic first post, but yours struck me more that way.)

McCaber

12-22-2012, 06:04 PM

Boromir88

12-22-2012, 06:06 PM

I wanted to write a serious post but I realised pretty soon there's really nothing to go on by, so it ended up being 85% jokey. But I did pay attention to G55 apologies-in-advance and to your post which could have included a coded message. (To be fair, so could have Morsul's poetic first post, but yours struck me more that way.)

I suppose it could, but I'm a bit more hit you right over the head with coded messages. I got a kick out of the phantom last time with his "Boro's 5th letter of his 1st sentence is an I, then the 7th letter of his 4th sentence is an S. This is clearly a message!"

Nah, it's more like what an ordinary day we're having, don't you think? That's all the complicated my head and messages get.

Thinlómien

12-22-2012, 06:21 PM

I suppose it could, but I'm a bit more hit you right over the head with coded messages. I got a kick out of the phantom last time with his "Boro's 5th letter of his 1st sentence is an I, then the 7th letter of his 4th sentence is an S. This is clearly a message!"

Nah, it's more like what an ordinary day we're having, don't you think? That's all the complicated my head and messages get.Mostly it looked like you could be making an opening for future coded messages involving reindeer speech. But I anyway agree with you about it being a very ordinary Day this far.

Maybe we should look for someone saying "I'm the Cobbler wolves please don't kill me". That strikes me as the only coded message really worth sending, but I'm not really getting that from Morsul's doggerel or Boro's clickety clacking.If you're looking for that, then Coppermirror's first post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678119&postcount=8) seems the most fruitful, but I'm really grasping at straws here.

Coppermirror

12-22-2012, 06:23 PM

Sally - Little Cindy Lou Who: Showed up, said next to nothing. Has been crying for Suzy all day. It would be good to see another post from her, even if it's banter.

Shasta - Jack Frost: Was delayed by making Suzy's grave arrangements. Nothing has caught his eye, and he thinks Legate is the only one who's said anything of substance. I can't blame him for thinking nothing's caught his eye when nothing much has caught mine yet either.

G55 - Rudolph: Can't participate much toDay due to real life, but will vote. Wants to make a snowflake monument. Would a Christmas-hating wolf be willing to suggest that as cover for their flinty-hearted ways?

Coppermirror - The Ghost of Christmas Present: Having lots of fun with banter! But also getting down to business now.

Steve - Valkotukka:...Has he actually posted at all? I don't think he has.

Morsul - The Grinch: Presented us with a lovely rhyme. One day he'll adore Christmas cheer, just you wait. Makes several joking comments and thinks this will be a silly game. I certainly hope it will be properly jolly. :)

He complains that Legate was singling him out, and makes some first impression comments about four players, there not being enough to go on for the rest.

Nerwen - The Sugar Plum Fairy: Shared reindeer language interpretations with us, and suggested through that that Boromir is a hooved wolf. Could be nothing but a joke. Could be an opportunistic Seer trying to hide an accusation, but probably isn't. Could be a wolf or Cobbler trying to look a little Seer-ish.

Zil - Frosty: Thinks that speculation based on nothing will only harm us and those of us who are in the Christmas spirit. I am very much a Christmas Spirit, so I sympathise with his views. But even so, we must analyse things. It's the weighing up of value that we must use our Christmas cheer for.

Boro - Olive the Other Reindeer: Provided an excellent opportunity for others to interpret him. Gave a list of comments on various people, which may potentially be useful to look back on when we have some hard data but right now is difficult to read.

McCaber - Tiny Tim: Cannot get far on his crutches. On general principles I'm against lynching Tiny Tim after all the effort my brothers have been to in order to melt Scrooge's heart and incidentally save Tim in the process.

Lommy - Paksu: Interprets Boro's reindeer-speak as an admission of Cobblerhood. This could potentially have a deeper meaning, but frankly it's beyond me right now. Naturally the same things applying to Nerwen's post apply to her. She then gives a quick list with little comments on people. It may or may not be useful later.

Legate - Santa Claus: Wants people to post more than banter. Which is reasonable, although I must say that I have no intentions of dropping the banter entirely at any point of the game, since I have a fun Ghost job this time. (I mean, the role description for that one is hovering around and making vaguely ominous statements! I can't pass it up.)

Legate Claus wants us to look for Cobblers and for people trying to contact them, and thinks we should look at the Boro-Nerwen-Lommy exchange. Which, again, is reasonable enough.

So in summary, I really don't think we have anything of value to go on and I'm rather aghast at the prospect of picking people based either on what looks like meaningless banter or on who has failed to post much. The only thing I can think of doing right now is going entirely by gut instinct, which is a poor substitute for decent analysis. I'll try looking through things again and hope that something jumps out at me, or that there'll be further posts of interest.

Ahem. My ghostly calculations say that toDay's choice will either set us upon a path to destruction, or to good cheer and hearty meals, but that the likelihood of the latter is smaller. We must be wary...wary...

Edit: Cross-posted with everyone on this page and the last of the previous page. Beware, beware of cross-posting!

Galadriel55

12-22-2012, 06:25 PM

Galadriel had same thought as me regarding Boro which scaresme not furry scary just in general Galadriel might want get checked if she thinks like me... shudders

Like asylum kind of "checked"? :p

I've looked into the matter. However, I don't think speculation of any real meaning would be useful at this point, and it could be damaging, at least to those in the Christmas spirit...

Damaging? In the sense that they won't have time to reply to it?

Personally I just find it useless to go in an endless cycle that doesn't yield anything.

Suspicion/gut-feeling list to follow shortly.

EDIT: xed with Cop

Eönwë

12-22-2012, 06:28 PM

Sorry everyone, I was out on the ice flats when- What is going on? Is that Suzy? [/IC]

Sorry, I've had limited time toDay, but now I'm here. Doesn't look like much has been said so far, but I think I'll give it a reread.

Shastanis Althreduin

12-22-2012, 06:30 PM

After skimming/reading again, the only thing that's really caught my eye is, as per usual, the way G55 has of appearing overly-helpful on the first day. I don't think I'll be basing a vote on it, though - I'm pretty sure she's been lynched many times for the same thing, only to be innocent.

This is a puzzler. I need to go write down my thoughts. Where, you ask? Why, in frost, on windowpanes, of course. Tis tradition.

Thinlómien

12-22-2012, 06:31 PM

Okay, my brain just isn't working and I should sleep, and besides I have Agan and Volo in my room trying to keep up a discussion...

So

++Inzil

("No, don't vote him!" says Agan. "He's nice and he looks like me!" Sorry mate, you're not playing, your comments don't count.)

My reasons: I figured Zil's been busy, but he gives a very lazy impression. As if he didn't have to catch wolves and he could just afford commenting this and that, mostly in bantery tone. That's the best I have for toDay.

edit: xed with Eönwë (*waves*) and Shasta

Inziladun

12-22-2012, 06:33 PM

Maybe we should look for someone saying "I'm the Cobbler wolves please don't kill me". That strikes me as the only coded message really worth sending, but I'm not really getting that from Morsul's doggerel or Boro's clickety clacking.

Yeah, Cobbler-hinting is useful, but like you, I haven't seen anything noteworthy.

Damaging? In the sense that they won't have time to reply to it?

Damaging if you go trying to openly work out if someone's writing in code, and they aren't the Cobbler.

x/d with Shasta and Lommy

Legate of Amon Lanc

12-22-2012, 06:35 PM

Well, glad that it seems at least a prompt to talk made something start happening.

I am getting some general ideas about people, which is good, if I am supposed to vote in the next hour or so...

Sally - Who?
Shasta - appears but does not say much, hope he gets back to talk more now that there are things he can respond to...
G55 - I might actually find her behavior a bit suspicious, because what she did was the initial random banter just like everyone, but then at some point she started posting something that started to look like something of substance, but in fact it looked more like forced way of saying something and being "non-commited" at the same time (or ending up sort of sweeping the things she was talking about under the carpet, reverting to the fun-part with the sort of "but forgot I said anything" tone, and not trying to stir any discussion or anything, which could be of possible fear of getting herself in the middle of discussion). It just seems to me on first sight markingly different from the G55 I remember.
Coppermirror - I have no personal experience with her (him? it?), but seems, well, like a "thinking" person, I am probably not going to vote it yet, at least not before I learn something more... so far, no problems though
Steve - strangely absent.
Morsul - actually, since I know him, I *think* you can call his behavior as trying to be active one, even if objectively, he did not contribute much. But in any case, does not strike me in any sinister manner, no.
Nerwen - actually pretty much like herself...
Zil - said nothing much, this far; I would actually have expected him to be more vocal. That is also somehow unusual thing.
Boro - ditto. He posted more, but 99% of it was just banter. I would have expected more initiative on his part.
McCaber - hmm, seems to have a slightly slow start, but then, seems to think independantly, which is a positive sign. So actually looking quite good to me for now (of course, with the little we have to base thoughts on...)
Lommy - now posting, and in fact, possibly from start things which looked like attempts to post something possibly substantial... though of course, e.g. her comment about Reindeer-jingling being a Cobbler thing was a thing a Wolf-Lommy might have said too because she would have known people would have expected it from an innocent Lommy etc etc... but I don't have any really bad vibes from her style of playing otherwise.

I would really appreciate seeing more of the not-too-much-active-yet people, but let's see if there's time for it (and if they appear).

EDIT: x-ed with G55, Steve, Shasta, Lommy and Zil

Galadriel55

12-22-2012, 06:43 PM

Shiny red nose feeling:
Shasta
Zil

Dull red nose feeling:
Morsul
Cop
Nerwen
Lommy

Wet and cold nose feeling:
Legate
Boro

No feeling:
Sally
Steve
Cabbie

Now some of these gut-feelings don't exactly correspond to what my brain says, something I will get to in a moment - as soon as I reskim the thread again nd possibly make a summary.

I have to say that while Lommy's vote explanation seemed lousy at first glance, I'm quite impressed with it, considering how little there is to go on from. That is probably the most reasonable thing toDay.

Summary, here I come!

Boromir88

12-22-2012, 06:44 PM

Boro - ditto. He posted more, but 99% of it was just banter. I would have expected more initiative on his part.

I protest this characterization. First post yes. The rest though...not banter at all. I suppose compared to your posts it is 99% banter, but that must make posts from others indefinitely banter?

Legate of Amon Lanc

12-22-2012, 06:52 PM

I protest this characterization. First post yes. The rest though...not banter at all. I suppose compared to your posts it is 99% banter, but that must make posts from others indefinitely banter?

It does. But the point is, you, the way I know you, are more to the Nog-side than to the xyzzy-side, if you get my meaning (for those players who don't know: xyzzy was a person famous for playing in several games, basically posting one post per day if ever, if that post contained a vote, it was quite random, and so on...). I would have expected you to poke people into actually talking, yet your posts give the impression that effectively, until the point I asked for some substance in posting, you seemed happy with continuing ICly until DL. Or in other words (if I say it in a bit exaggerated way), I would have expected *you* to say "hey people, start saying something" instead of waiting for *me* to do it.

Such behavior wouldn't seem strange to me in the case of, say, sally, but in yours, it does.

McCaber

12-22-2012, 07:00 PM

Yeah, where has sally been? She hasn't said anything about needing to be absent toDay.

Coppermirror

12-22-2012, 07:03 PM

People I'm currently considering voting for:

G55 the Reindeer. Well. I wasn't entirely joking when I suggested that we examined the "Christmas cheer" statements from people. I wondered above whether a Christmas-hating wolf would suggest a snow monument for Suzy Snowflake, and actually, reflecting on that, I think one might. Yes, I know this is super flimsy reasoning. Right now I'm not getting any feelings of "G55 is innocent" from her comments.

Inzil the Snowman. I feel uneasy about Inzil's comments, but I can't put my finger on why, and don't want to make a mistake. He suggested that analysing things too much at this point could be damaging, which is true, especially for the Boro-Nerwen-Lommy thing he was talking about. But we have to analyse based on what we have in front of us, or not at all, so there's no choice. Maybe it was his suggestion that it would harm the Christmas spirit that's bothering me.

I'll give a list of suspicions. It's very flimsy and based on gut feelings, and my gut feelings aren't usually accurate, but it's better to put something on the table. The more people who do this, the better the information everyone will have toMorrow. I suggest that most of us should do this.

Not at all suspicious of:
Nobody except myself.

Not particularly worried about at present (but will examine further before voting):
Boro the Reindeer
Morsul Tim
Lommy Paksu

Feeling vaguely uneasy about:
Shasta Frost
Nerwen the Fairy
Legate Claus

Feeling quite uneasy about:
G55 the Reindeer
Inzil the Snowman

Extremely suspicious of:
Nobody, unfortunately.

Nothing much to judge by yet:
Sally Who
Eonwe Valkotukka

Edit: cross-posted with G55, Boro, Legate, McCaber.

Inziladun

12-22-2012, 07:08 PM

I have to say that while Lommy's vote explanation seemed lousy at first glance, I'm quite impressed with it, considering how little there is to go on from. That is probably the most reasonable thing toDay.

Actually, I have to agree. Lommy's been rather innocentish, and for a Day 1 vote it's not bad, considering she's right. I have been in a rather bantery mode, though it's partly from not being home a great deal toDay and just checking in whenever. There's one or two others that might seem to fit the same bill though.

Boromir88

12-22-2012, 07:10 PM

Such behavior wouldn't seem strange to me in the case of, say, sally, but in yours, it does.

It could just depend on when an idea comes to me...if I'm staring at no new posts, thus no new info to input, can't really prod, right? But an idea has come to me...Here's the player list:

Sally - Little Cindy Lou Who
Shasta - Jack Frost
G55 - Rudolph
Coppermirror - The Ghost of Christmas Present
Steve - Valkotukka
Morsul - The Grinch
Nerwen - The Sugar Plum Fairy
Zil - Frosty
McCaber - Tiny Tim
Lommy - Paksu
Legate - Santa Claus

Myself removed, because it's a hypothetical that logically can't involve me. So here's the hypothetical...

You're tied in votes with the person below you on the list (In this case, Legate, you're at the bottom, so instead it would be sally). I have the last vote, what would you say to me (based on what's taken place so far today) to convince me not to vote for you, and instead to lynch sally? (Anyone else who wants to apply this hypothetical, feel free...Lommy you're tied with Legate, I have the last vote...why should I vote to lynch Legate and not you?...etc)

Boromir88

12-22-2012, 07:11 PM

And crap...forgot Lommy voted...

Coppermirror

12-22-2012, 07:17 PM

You're tied in votes with the person below you on the list (In this case, Legate, you're at the bottom, so instead it would be sally). I have the last vote, what would you say to me (based on what's taken place so far today) to convince me not to vote for you, and instead to lynch sally? (Anyone else who wants to apply this hypothetical, feel free...Lommy you're tied with Legate, I have the last vote...why should I vote to lynch Legate and not you?...etc)

Why not, I'll apply this too. We might get some extra info from people if a bunch of us do this. Or we might not, but we have very little to go by anyway.

So for me, that means that I'd be tied on votes with Eonwe. I would say that you shouldn't vote for me because I'm actively participating, and Eonwe, for whatever reason, hasn't said much yet.

But Boro, why don't you try this too? That means that you need to look at the hypothetical situation of why people shouldn't vote for you in the event of a tie between you and McCaber. I'd like to hear it.

Nerwen

12-22-2012, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by Inziladun
Oh dear me. Poor Suzy! I start to melt just thinking about it!
Please do me a favor, and keep an eye out for the sun. It and I don't get along so well.
All right, but that snowman will have to have a hat of their own. This one's taken!
Not sure why... but read this in a dixie southern woman's voice and it was Hilarious
It does!:D

So otherwise, as for more practical questions... maybe one thing that should be cleared about the rules (maybe the Moddess should actually answer this, if she happens to be reading?), the Cobbler does count in the tally as innocent or as Wolf?
I think there's been.... oh, maybe one game ever where the Cobbler counted as a wolf. (Maybe I'm wrong, as we're now up to WWC, so probably pretty much anything you could think of has happened by now.) But still– it would be such an exceptional thing I'm wondering why you feel the need to ask at all. It's like asking, "Can the Ranger kill people?":confused:

Nerwen - The Sugar Plum Fairy: Shared reindeer language interpretations with us, and suggested through that that Boromir is a hooved wolf. Could be nothing but a joke. Could be an opportunistic Seer trying to hide an accusation, but probably isn't. Could be a wolf or Cobbler trying to look a little Seer-ish.
Translation: "Hey, wolves, look what I found!" No, really, are you sure you're not the Cobbler of Christmas Present?:smokin:

EDIT:X'd with Coppermirror.

Legate of Amon Lanc

12-22-2012, 07:32 PM

It could just depend on when an idea comes to me...if I'm staring at no new posts, thus no new info to input, can't really prod, right?

But to me, the idea came. It really is not about saying something brilliant. It is about actually making an effort to say, or make people say something. I mean really, this has been one of the laziest Day Ones I have seen in WW, I really don't want to sound like Nog, it's all fun, we're waiting for Christmas, but if we are to lynch somebody...

Anyway, as for your list, well! That's actually not a bad idea for Day 1. Even though it has gaps (for instance, like you said, my place would be to say why not me but sally - then obviously I would say "she hasn't been around at all", which pretty much is an undisputable argument), it's a nice one. It'd have been even better if you had posted something like that half a Day ago and not two hours before DL (or how much exactly it is)... though it is true that it might give some good info even in the upcoming few hours, and also feedback for future Days to look back at...

Anyway, now I should say, that however I appreciate Boro's effort, I must say something strikes me as false in that whole behavior (up to the "I forgot that Lommy voted" - for some reason, that struck me as false, I don't know why, but it just seems that way). Partially also I agree with Copper, why don't you also play this game, even though you have removed yourself (rather illogically) from the list (if it's meant to be for everyone, there is no need for making a "subjective" list if everyone is supposed to try it anyway).

EDIT: x-ed with Nerwen

Galadriel55

12-22-2012, 07:32 PM

The first discussion-worthy thing:

"okokclak onk owk clik ockockwonk"

translates to

"I am a werewolf disguised as a terrier disguised as a reindeer. Please lynch me before I die of confusion."

Well, well!

Is that so? Borolive, what have you to say for yourself?

Oh, really? My book gives:

"I am a cobbler disguised as an ordo disguised as a reindeer. Wolves please not my future use of reindeer language."

Then there's Lommy's 85% serious list, out of which this is the main (only?) serious thing:

G55 - Rudolph
Already making apologies and excuses. How furry! Oh, I guess reindeer have furs... or do you call them pelts? Hides?

Then there's Boro's list, out of which these are probably the most serious comments:

Why so seriously unserious?

G55 - the snowflake snowman monument combined with

Lommy - List of people post is about as telling as mine. But where mine is seriously acknowledged as limitted to start and help me categorizing people (yep, sorry I fit people into personal compartments). I can't tell if Lommy's is a serious attempt to look unserious and random. Or if it's an unserious attempt to start the serious suspicion train a moving.

Coppermirror - What do I say about Nerwen's translation? It's quite wrong, but as the Sugar Plum Fairy I imagine she went for the literal translation just looking at a "Reindeer to Fairy dictionary." She clearly did not pick up the slight phonetic alterations between the ock and ok which significantly changes the meaning.

And somehow I just stopped mid thought here...should be combined with a "I won't be here, but I kinda will" first post. Because as far as I know, reindeer don't have construction skills, it's why we have elves. [referring to his comment above about me]

Can't tell how serious he is. But he seems to rearrange Lommy's words about me (and I happen to be the only common serious comment).

Legate urges people to post opinions and looks for Cobblers and people who reply to Cobbler comments.

Morsul's reaction to everything and especially Legate's comment:

Why'd I get singled out? Given Boro's hinting style I had a legitimate idea he might have been hining... with reindeer calls I don't know, it was a thought ad I shared it.

So far
Boro seemingpretty tame
Thin tosed out some general feelings in what looks like a genuine attempt to get the ball rolling.
Legate This post seems like a good a jumping point as any
Galadriel had same thought as me regarding Boro which scaresme not furry scary just in general Galadriel might want get checked if she thinks like me... shudders

everyone else not enugh to say much about.

I think the "singling out" is a good point, but what does suspicion of hinting have to do with it?... Sometimes I have trouble separating your ideas, Morsul.

Now as I'm reading I see that whenever people say "Christmas spirit" I get confused if they are being IC or if they mean RL Xmas preparations.

If you're looking for that, then Coppermirror's first post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678119&postcount=8) seems the most fruitful, but I'm really grasping at straws here.

This actually stands out in a negative way. It's like Lommy is saying take a good look at Cop, but I'm not having any part in that suspicion! - but in a less exaggerated way. By the way, I can't see anything that special in that post. An I just being thick?

Cop's suspicion list. Semi-IC. No real suspicions. Her own summary:

So in summary, I really don't think we have anything of value to go on and I'm rather aghast at the prospect of picking people based either on what looks like meaningless banter or on who has failed to post much. The only thing I can think of doing right now is going entirely by gut instinct, which is a poor substitute for decent analysis. I'll try looking through things again and hope that something jumps out at me, or that there'll be further posts of interest.

Lommy's vote for Zil, because

My reasons: I figured Zil's been busy, but he gives a very lazy impression. As if he didn't have to catch wolves and he could just afford commenting this and that, mostly in bantery tone. That's the best I have for toDay.

Legate's suspicion-list post is wishy-washy and inconclusive.

Cop, while IC is quite fine, can you please separate it from your serious content? IC is fun, but not when I can't figure out if you're serious.

OK, I see people have posted since (#55 onwards), but it took me a real long time with lots of interruptions to finish this. I'll comment on the next posts separately.

Coppermirror

12-22-2012, 07:35 PM

Translation: "Hey, wolves, look what I found!" No, really, are you sure you're not the Cobbler of Christmas Present?:smokin:

Very sure, thank you. But you commenting on that and trying to make it look like a signal does give me something extra to analyse about whether or not you're the Cobbler or a wolf, given that the gist of my comment settled on it being more likely that your statement was a Cobbler or wolf sign. Granted, I haven't suspected you a huge amount yet.

Edit: cross-posted with Legate and G55.

Inziladun

12-22-2012, 07:36 PM

Right, to go on with Boro's idea, why should someone vote Boro over me? Hm. Honestly, I've got nothing. He's been quite a bit more active, with substantial posts. I can't really come up with anything, except that I'm not evil. I'm sure that's a great help. :rolleyes:

x/d with Coppermirror

Legate of Amon Lanc

12-22-2012, 07:39 PM

I think there's been.... oh, maybe one game ever where the Cobbler counted as a wolf. (Maybe I'm wrong, as we're now up to WWC, so probably pretty much anything you could think of has happened by now.) But still– it would be such an exceptional thing I'm wondering why you feel the need to ask at all. It's like asking, "Can the Ranger kill people?":confused:
Really? Maybe it's that I am used to every Mod pointing that out, because basically in each game with a Cobbler I have played it was specified. Though when I think about it, you might be right. Nonetheless, I haven't been playing for who knows how long and well, who knows what house-rules you have come up with meanwhile...

Translation: "Hey, wolves, look what I found!" No, really, are you sure you're not the Cobbler of Christmas Present?:smokin:

EDIT:X'd with Coppermirror.

Hmm. Actually interesting spot, somehow I missed that. Though the end of the sentence reverses it a bit ("could be Wolf pretending to be Seer" seems more as if Cop was basically thinking about it as a whole), but still, an innocent villager should be very careful about mentioning such things.

EDIT: x-ed since my last, and soon to vote, ugh, the clock!

Boromir88

12-22-2012, 07:42 PM

But Boro, why don't you try this too? That means that you need to look at the hypothetical situation of why people shouldn't vote for you in the event of a tie between you and McCaber. I'd like to hear it.

Sure...why not.

McCaber admittedly withholds a lot of what he's thinking...either to my great benefit or flaw, I don't. I'm an unfiltered blabberer, but it also lets everyone know where I stand and how I go about conducting business/voting. If I'm a wolfy, it's going to be known within 2 or 3 days, guaranteed. McCaber can never get a grasp on, rather unpredictable, but it also means he's very good at slipping through forgotten, an ideal "wolf under the radar" candidate.

Coppermirror

12-22-2012, 07:43 PM

How long have we got until the deadline?

Boromir88

12-22-2012, 07:44 PM

How long have we got until the deadline?

2 hours and 15 minutes.

Boromir88

12-22-2012, 07:53 PM

But to me, the idea came. It really is not about saying something brilliant. It is about actually making an effort to say, or make people say something. I mean really, this has been one of the laziest Day Ones I have seen in WW, I really don't want to sound like Nog, it's all fun, we're waiting for Christmas, but if we are to lynch somebody...

Anyway, as for your list, well! That's actually not a bad idea for Day 1. Even though it has gaps (for instance, like you said, my place would be to say why not me but sally - then obviously I would say "she hasn't been around at all", which pretty much is an undisputable argument), it's a nice one. It'd have been even better if you had posted something like that half a Day ago and not two hours before DL (or how much exactly it is)... though it is true that it might give some good info even in the upcoming few hours, and also feedback for future Days to look back at...

Anyway, now I should say, that however I appreciate Boro's effort, I must say something strikes me as false in that whole behavior (up to the "I forgot that Lommy voted" - for some reason, that struck me as false, I don't know why, but it just seems that way). Partially also I agree with Copper, why don't you also play this game, even though you have removed yourself (rather illogically) from the list (if it's meant to be for everyone, there is no need for making a "subjective" list if everyone is supposed to try it anyway).

EDIT: x-ed with Nerwen

Hey now, I'm clearly making an effort here, don't criticize the time when I finally think of something...criticize the suspiciosness or unsuspicionsess of the effort.

Well, I had just asked Lommy to tell me why I should vote for you instead of her if the vote was tied. But then realized she likely would not be answering that today since she voted...ergo I forgot she had.

Coppermirror

12-22-2012, 07:55 PM

Okay...

In that case, I'm planning to vote for Inzil unless something comes up before deadline.

The reason I'm not planning on voting for the other person I suspect right now, G55, is because I like her gut feeling list of suspicions and think it might be from the thought process of an innocent. She's also posted with further analysis. Although the bit where she's said I have "no real suspicions" while...actually pretty much true, does skim over the fact that she was at joint first place in my suspicions, flimsy as those suspicions are.

Goodness, that all sounds so negative and lacking in Christmas cheer! I should go and listen to some carols.

Edit: cross-posted with Boro.

Inziladun

12-22-2012, 08:02 PM

In that case, I'm planning to vote for Inzil unless something comes up before deadline.

Ah, the bandwagon. Does it approach?

The reason I'm not planning on voting for the other person I suspect right now, G55, is because I like her gut feeling list of suspicions and think it might be from the thought process of an innocent. She's also posted with further analysis. Although the bit where she's said I have "no real suspicions" while...actually pretty much true, does skim over the fact that she was at joint first place in my suspicions, flimsy as those suspicions are.

I was getting the feeling that G55 was wanting to pick through those "coded" posts out in the open, and we all know that the Cobbler isn't the only one who might be doing that. And yes, finding things to discuss can be difficult on Day 1, but I just didn't think that was the wisest course of action.

Galadriel55

12-22-2012, 08:08 PM

Why Cop and not me? Good question. Huh.

Interesting effects too. Should I be pointing out my innocence or her (hypothetical) guilt?

The only issue I have with Cop is that she mixed her IC into her posts in such a way that I can't grasp her degree of seriousness. If she is a wolf, she could be easily hiding behind some of those comments. When you can't tell if she's serious about something, she could say "I said it first, here it is!" or "I never meant it, it was just a joke!" depending on the outcome.

However this case may be, I have already asked Cop to please distinguish between the two and I pray she does in the future, and I am not crying wolf based on this, or at least solely this.

I am more interested in voting either Legate or Boro. Probably Legate. He rubs me the wrong way. It's not a strong "whoa! something's wrong!" vibe, it's more of a just weird anxious feeling. And it's stronger with Legate than with Boro.

EDIT: xed with Cop and Zil

Legate of Amon Lanc

12-22-2012, 08:17 PM

Hey now, I'm clearly making an effort here, don't criticize the time when I finally think of something...criticize the suspiciosness or unsuspicionsess of the effort.
I am not criticizing the time, it was merely saying that you could have done it earlier, nothing more, nothing less. The part that makes you look pretty weird in my eyes in this game is that you seemed completely leaving the "game part" of the game out until really really late, which I would not have expected you to do, unless it suited you to leave the village without talking or what.

Well, I had just asked Lommy to tell me why I should vote for you instead of her if the vote was tied. But then realized she likely would not be answering that today since she voted...ergo I forgot she had.
I know, I know. It was just the manner of it, sort of a strange appendix. But it's not what worries me, the whole way of how you act is just so... not like yourself.

I really have to go to sleep, though. Okay, people have been behaving really really weirdly here toDay, but to decide,

++Boro

whose acting is just on top of my suspicions now. It's still only Day 1, but he's been really strangely noncommited at first and somewhat shifty now.

Good night...

EDIT: x-ed since Cop

Coppermirror

12-22-2012, 08:25 PM

++Inzil

I'll be interested to see how other people vote after this.

The current tally:

Inzil - 2 votes (Thinlomien, Coppermirror)
Boro - 1 vote (Legate)

McCaber

12-22-2012, 08:30 PM

Coppermirror

12-22-2012, 08:31 PM

One more thing - I've really got to note that the lack of posting from several people makes this Day really, really difficult. It would be extremely easy for a wolf or even two to be hiding amongst those people. I ended up not voting for quiet players this time, to give them a chance, but if I'm still around toMorrow, I'll definitely be looking at those people as more suspicious than I did toDay.

Edit: cross-posted with McCaber.

Boromir88

12-22-2012, 08:32 PM

A reminded votes should be highlighted not bold.

Coppermirror

12-22-2012, 08:34 PM

Assuming it's okay to edit for this purpose, I'll go back and edit my vote so it's in red.

Eönwë

12-22-2012, 08:36 PM

Ok, my thoughts so far:

Sally - Well, she's said about as much as I have until now. Which is not good. Especially because she's potentially been around since then and hasn't said anything.

Shasta - Said very little. But he has a list coming, so I'll wait for that.

G55 - Seems to be trying to bring in some real talk as well as banter. Looks good so far. Seems to only have suspicion by gut-feeling so far, though.

Coppermirror - Seems to be mostly totally in-character banter so far. I don't like the first paragraph of this post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678163&postcount=32). It seems like just posting something for the sake of it. The list seems slightly better, but the points against G55 and Zil seem pretty weak.

Morsul - Seems like normal Morsul so far. I'm inclined to believe innocent.

Nerwen - Well, she only has one post so far, so I'm not sure what to make of her.

Zil - I don't know. Something about him doesn't sit right with me. He's definitely far more banterous than usual, but that's not what makes me uneasy. I'll need to look at him in more detail.

Boro - Pretty funny so far, but he hasn't given much. So far it looks like he's tried to do a phantom (i.e. force a discussion that he wants) twice, which I don't like out of principle. Of course, that suggest innocence or guilt, but he doesn't feel like the innocent Boro I'm used to.

McCaber - Unless he's serious with his first sentence here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678166&postcount=35) (and I don't like that post because it seems full of false substance), this (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678174&postcount=41) is the serious game talk he's had. It could be something that either side would suggest, but I'm going to need to address that later.

Lommy - I'm not really keen on her first list because it mixes banter and seriousness too much. Could be an easy way for a wolf to make a light non-committal accusation to go back to later when it becomes useful. And in her second list, she does indeed refer to what she previously said about G55. She then says it's 85% jokey, which makes it seem worse, because now she has license to go back to it probably one more time. Her vote seems ok, though.

Legate - Asks the moddess useful questions, but of course, this doesn't speak for his innocence or guilt, since the answers benefit every role. I was going to say that this makes him least likely to be a cobbler, but then I realised that this would probably be a really good early-game tactic for a cobbler.

People I'd rather not for just yet:
Legate
Morsul
G55

People I need to see more of before I begin to make any sort of judgement:
Shasta
Sally
Nerwen

edit: x-ed with Nerwen's #60

Boromir88

12-22-2012, 08:36 PM

Right now I'm probably going to vote sally, but I'm willing to give her another hour or so to show up. Silence is most assuredly not golden here, but will just get you a lump of coal in your stocking.

That's where I've been leaning since the most suspicious to me had been Copper...the asking me how I felt about Nerwen's translation struck me as rather odd, but last several posts have relieved general feelings of oddity.

Legate's been making a history of voting early for me...frankly, I think I've just become an easy target for him when he hasn't got much of an idea/hold on anyone else playing...as annoying as it can be, I'll forgive the behavior today.

Inziladun

12-22-2012, 08:39 PM

I was considering G55, but Coppermirror's vote looks like a straight-up bandwagon attempt.

x/d with Boro

Coppermirror

12-22-2012, 08:48 PM

I was considering G55, but Coppermirror's vote looks like a straight-up bandwagon attempt.

You're one of the two players I suspected the most toDay (albeit not on great grounds, but I don't have anything better to go by), and I decided not to vote for G55. I want to play straightforwardly here, and not be cowardly by failing to vote for the person I suspect the most, even if that means casting a second vote and perhaps looking suspicious because of that.

Boromir88

12-22-2012, 08:50 PM

I'm going to be present through the DL, but I can't see much that will change my mind today...

++sally

No point in waiting...get a few names out there and see what happens/others decide to do.

Galadriel55

12-22-2012, 08:51 PM

I was considering G55, but Coppermirror's vote looks like a straight-up bandwagon attempt.

There's a possibility of that. Based on the few suspicions we've had toDay, she seems like the most reasonably suspected person at the moment.

Yes, I can see how she might be a wolf, in which case all or most of the suspicions are justified and likely true.

Yes, I can also see her as an innocent making... what's the word? Not slips. Not mistakes. Just saying things that others could turn against you, when it's just a coincidence.

I would leave Cop for now, because while she looks like she's bandwagoning, it also looks like she's being bandwagoned. Plus, I haven't changed my mind about Legate. Or my guts feelings. Take your pick.

EDIT: xed with Cop and Boro

Eönwë

12-22-2012, 09:00 PM

Clarifications and other thoughts while catching up:

- I don't particularly suspect Coppermirror of being a Cobbler. While that suspicion has been brought up based on at least two posts, I don't think a Cobbler would lean so heavily on such an obviously Cobbler-favouring IC role. That said, it doesn't mean that I find CM innocent at the moment.

-Legate. I'm not really finding him that innocent now that I look over him, but I'm not inclined to single him out for the lynch toDay because he's generating some good discussion at least.

-I'm not particularly keen on a Zil lynch toDay.

Inziladun

12-22-2012, 09:04 PM

You're one of the two players I suspected the most toDay (albeit not on great grounds, but I don't have anything better to go by), and I decided not to vote for G55. I want to play straightforwardly here, and not be cowardly by failing to vote for the person I suspect the most, even if that means casting a second vote and perhaps looking suspicious because of that.

I can respect that, though it still looks opportunistic, much more so than Lommy's.

I would leave Cop for now, because while she looks like she's bandwagoning, it also looks like she's being bandwagoned. Plus, I haven't changed my mind about Legate. Or my guts feelings. Take your pick.

I don't see how Coppermirror is the subject of a bandwagon, unless I've missed something.

Inziladun

12-22-2012, 09:07 PM

Legate does seem a little off, as in a little more detached and rushed-feeling, and I disagree with his suspicion of Boro. Still, I don't know that's enough grounds for a vote at this point.

Galadriel55

12-22-2012, 09:14 PM

I don't see how Coppermirror is the subject of a bandwagon, unless I've missed something.

Not in the sense that she's gaining votes, but that peope are sticking suspicion stickers onto her one after the other. A bandwagon of suspicion before the bandwagon of votes.

Coppermirror

12-22-2012, 09:22 PM

Not in the sense that she's gaining votes, but that peope are sticking suspicion stickers onto her one after the other. A bandwagon of suspicion before the bandwagon of votes.

I have noticed that. All those comments one after the other. I'd think it looked suspicious as a co-ordinated thing, but I really don't think that two wolves would be piling on me one after the other. Wouldn't they be wanting to spread things out? It would look bad if they got me lynched and there were two of them voting for me.

A cobbler and a wolf might go for it, though, if they thought that I was innocent. It's not long before deadline and would be a good time for it, after they'd seen a bunch of posts from me and I'd already cast my vote, which leaves an opening to go for. It's also possible that there could be a Cobbler thinking that Inzil is a wolf and trying to save him, but that might be overthinking things, and it wouldn't necessarily make Inzil any more likely to be a wolf.

Shastanis Althreduin

12-22-2012, 09:22 PM

I have to say that while Lommy's vote explanation seemed lousy at first glance, I'm quite impressed with it, considering how little there is to go on from. That is probably the most reasonable thing toDay.
Really? All I see is an explanation of a Day 1 vote based on a feeling that "Inzil feels lazy." Passable, for Day 1, but I'm curious as to why you're so impressed with it.

I don't really care for Cop's reason for suspecting G55, and I'm not sure I understand her reason for Inzil. Mind explaining, Cop?

Translation: "Hey, wolves, look what I found!" No, really, are you sure you're not the Cobbler of Christmas Present?
This was a pretty good catch, my sun in splendor.

Anyway, now I should say, that however I appreciate Boro's effort, I must say something strikes me as false in that whole behavior (up to the "I forgot that Lommy voted" - for some reason, that struck me as false, I don't know why, but it just seems that way). Partially also I agree with Copper, why don't you also play this game, even though you have removed yourself (rather illogically) from the list (if it's meant to be for everyone, there is no need for making a "subjective" list if everyone is supposed to try it anyway).

This seems a bit silly, honestly. One the one hand, you think it's good that Boro brought up some discussion, then immediately seem to suspect him for it. I don't really understand that at all...

This actually stands out in a negative way. It's like Lommy is saying take a good look at Cop, but I'm not having any part in that suspicion! - but in a less exaggerated way.
I do see what you mean, actually. I don't think Lommy will be back by DL to say anything about it, however, so I'm hesitant to vote for her today as I haven't really seen anything else about her.

Very sure, thank you. But you commenting on that and trying to make it look like a signal does give me something extra to analyse about whether or not you're the Cobbler or a wolf, given that the gist of my comment settled on it being more likely that your statement was a Cobbler or wolf sign. Granted, I haven't suspected you a huge amount yet.
I'm not sure my heart had to work very hard to make it look like a signal, Cop. :p

In that case, I'm planning to vote for Inzil unless something comes up before deadline.

The reason I'm not planning on voting for the other person I suspect right now, G55, is because I like her gut feeling list of suspicions and think it might be from the thought process of an innocent. She's also posted with further analysis. Although the bit where she's said I have "no real suspicions" while...actually pretty much true, does skim over the fact that she was at joint first place in my suspicions, flimsy as those suspicions are.
I'm a little more bothered by this - it's almost as if Cop has locked herself into only considering two people to vote, and isn't really at pains to choose one from the other. It strikes me a bit as someone who doesn't really care too much about their vote.

Right now I'm probably going to vote sally, but I'm willing to give her another hour or so to show up. Silence is most assuredly not golden here, but will just get you a lump of coal in your stocking.
Why Sally, and not Eonwe, who's been just as silent? (note - Eonwe actually did post after this, but the point stands)

Inziladun

12-22-2012, 09:22 PM

Not in the sense that she's gaining votes, but that peope are sticking suspicion stickers onto her one after the other. A bandwagon of suspicion before the bandwagon of votes.

Well, there's Steve and I, but as far as I know, that's all.

x/d with Cop and Shasta

Eönwë

12-22-2012, 09:26 PM

I'm currently considering the idea of Boro-Legate pack, but I'm not sure they'd be that obvious when there're only two of them.

Other than those, I could potentially see myself going for Lommy, McC or Sally. Coppermirror or Nerwen could be possibilities, but only if the other option is someone I haven't mentioned so far.

edit: I completely forgot about Shasta, which is a bit worrying, but then, his most recent post seems quite good, so I probably won't be voting him toDay.

McCaber

12-22-2012, 09:32 PM

Why Sally, and not Eonwe, who's been just as silent? (note - Eonwe actually did post after this, but the point stands)
Honestly, he was so quiet I'd forgotten he existed. But seeing as he's contributed since then, he has deferred my wrath toDay.

I've given her an hour, and still nothing.
++sally
Let that be a warning to those who would remain silent.

Coppermirror

12-22-2012, 09:34 PM

Possibly the last post from me for the Day. I'd like to go over how my opinion's changed over the past little while in case I'm not around toMorrow to say so.

Sally, Shasta: Have said painfully little. ToMorrow I'd be increasingly suspicious of them.

G55 : No change. I'm still suspicious of her, still not on great grounds. That could change either way if we got to a Day with more substance. I think I'd at least need to examine how she votes toDay. She does seem to be actively participating at the moment, which is good.

Eonwe: Has stayed quiet until just before the end, so I'd be thinking of that as suspicious tomorrow. It is convenient that he's kept himself out of the way as a target of discussion but has shown up just now. I find it a little suspicious that he said my posts so far have been "mostly totally in-character banter", since although there has been plenty of that, I've been making an effort at analysis too for a while now. Other than that, his brief analysis of people looks reasonable to me.

Morsul: No change. Hasn't posted much of any substance, which is a problem. Anyone willing to comment on how Morsul usually plays? I'm not familiar with it.

Nerwen: Not a huge amount of change. Doesn't seem to have contributed a lot to the discussions so far, although her last post was interesting. I'll have to think about that one more before reaching any real conclusions, but my first impression of it did raise my suspicion of her a bit.

Inzil: Voted for him. I'm finding it hard to read his behaviour from after I said I was likely to vote for him. Would have to think about this one more too.

Boro: My initial impression was of innocence. As time goes on I'm not so sure of that, but I still don't have any particular reason to suspect him yet.

McCaber : Has said fairly little, but decided to vote for Sally on the grounds of quietness. That's reasonable, but it could also be a really good vote for a wolf to make.

Lommy - No change. At present she doesn't look particularly suspicious to me.

Legate - Little change from before. I'm still feeling uneasy about them, but I haven't played with them before. I found the exchange between them and Boro about Boro's usual playing style confusing.

I'm quite concerned at how easy it could have been for wolves to stay quiet toDay or to only show up and post near the end, when it was safe.

Edit: cross-posted with the last 4 comments.

Shastanis Althreduin

12-22-2012, 09:35 PM

Shastanis Althreduin

12-22-2012, 09:36 PM

Also, Cop, Legate is male.

Eönwë

12-22-2012, 09:44 PM

Ok, well, I've made up my mind.
++Boro

Shastanis Althreduin

12-22-2012, 09:51 PM

Chain of events -

Eonwe at #79:
Boro - Pretty funny so far, but he hasn't given much. So far it looks like he's tried to do a phantom (i.e. force a discussion that he wants) twice, which I don't like out of principle. Of course, that suggest innocence or guilt, but he doesn't feel like the innocent Boro I'm used to.

...

Legate - Asks the moddess useful questions, but of course, this doesn't speak for his innocence or guilt, since the answers benefit every role. I was going to say that this makes him least likely to be a cobbler, but then I realised that this would probably be a really good early-game tactic for a cobbler.

Eonwe at #85:
-Legate. I'm not really finding him that innocent now that I look over him, but I'm not inclined to single him out for the lynch toDay because he's generating some good discussion at least.

Eonwe at #92:
I'm currently considering the idea of Boro-Legate pack, but I'm not sure they'd be that obvious when there're only two of them.

Eonwe at #97:
Ok, well, I've made up my mind.
++Boro

--------

So... this is another vote that looks like it's been carefully set up throughout the day (or the past couple hours, as the case may be.) Hm.

Boromir88

12-22-2012, 09:51 PM

I don't like these votes for Sally. You guys can't honestly think Sally all people is the type to remain quiet on purpose, can you? I mean, it's Sally. Honestly, Boro's and McCaber's votes seem a lot like cop-outs to me.

Well yes...but in times without clear ideas or seeing what anyone is up to, it's usually a safe bet to go for someone up to nothing, especially on Day 1.

For instance, think I'm blind to the fact Legate, Copper, and G55 are up to something...but whether that be good or bad I can't quite determine yet. But given enough time, usually you can tell soon enough.

Galadriel55

12-22-2012, 09:53 PM

Really? All I see is an explanation of a Day 1 vote based on a feeling that "Inzil feels lazy." Passable, for Day 1, but I'm curious as to why you're so impressed with it.

Because it has any logical reasoning at all behind it. This Day1 was mighty unproductive at the time that she voted.

Coppermirror

12-22-2012, 09:53 PM

I don't really care for Cop's reason for suspecting G55, and I'm not sure I understand her reason for Inzil. Mind explaining, Cop?

My suspicion of G55 or my suspicion for Inzil, or both?

I explained both of those here:

People I'm currently considering voting for:

G55 the Reindeer. Well. I wasn't entirely joking when I suggested that we examined the "Christmas cheer" statements from people. I wondered above whether a Christmas-hating wolf would suggest a snow monument for Suzy Snowflake, and actually, reflecting on that, I think one might. Yes, I know this is super flimsy reasoning. Right now I'm not getting any feelings of "G55 is innocent" from her comments.

Inzil the Snowman. I feel uneasy about Inzil's comments, but I can't put my finger on why, and don't want to make a mistake. He suggested that analysing things too much at this point could be damaging, which is true, especially for the Boro-Nerwen-Lommy thing he was talking about. But we have to analyse based on what we have in front of us, or not at all, so there's no choice. Maybe it was his suggestion that it would harm the Christmas spirit that's bothering me.

As you see, it's not a lot to go by. At the time, looking at G55's comments, she also seemed to not be saying a lot of substance. I found that later on, her comments had more substance to them. I also found that her reasoning on her gut-feeling suspicion list was reasonable, which...

The reason I'm not planning on voting for the other person I suspect right now, G55, is because I like her gut feeling list of suspicions and think it might be from the thought process of an innocent. She's also posted with further analysis.

So my suspicion of G55 lessened a bit.

Inzil's posts made me feel suspicious and didn't appear to say much. Since the point I said I intended to vote for him, he's been fairly hard to read and hasn't done anything to change my opinion much. At the very least, voting for the person I suspected the most at the time has allowed me to look at the behaviour of people who have posted afterwards. Better to vote then and allow time for discussion. I hate it when voting comes down to the last minute.

I'm a little more bothered by this - it's almost as if Cop has locked herself into only considering two people to vote, and isn't really at pains to choose one from the other. It strikes me a bit as someone who doesn't really care too much about their vote.

I don't understand your thought process there. Those were the two people I suspected the most, and then one of them did something to make me suspect her less, so I voted for the other one. Why would that make my vote one that I don't care about? I would hate to cast a random vote, which is why I voted for the person I suspected the most.

Edit: cross-posted with Shasta, Boro and B55.

Inziladun

12-22-2012, 09:54 PM

Lommy--> Inzil (1)
Legate--> Boro (1) *Not bolded
Cop--> Inzil (2)
Boro--> Sally (1)
McCaber--> Sally (2)
Steve--> Boro (2)

I have to agree with Shasta: there's better choices than Sally.

Eönwë

12-22-2012, 09:56 PM

So... this is another vote that looks like it's been carefully set up throughout the day (or the past couple hours, as the case may be.) Hm.
It's more that I'd rather Boro than Sally or Zil.

Coppermirror

12-22-2012, 09:57 PM

For instance, think I'm blind to the fact Legate, Copper, and G55 are up to something...but whether that be good or bad I can't quite determine yet. But given enough time, usually you can tell soon enough.

What, really? That's the first I know about being up to something. I assure you that I have no idea what you're talking about. But thanks for mentioning it - I'll definitely take a look at the posts to try to see what you mean. If you're willing to point out what it is, that would be helpful.

Edit: cross-posted with Inzil, Eonwe.

Galadriel55

12-22-2012, 09:57 PM

++Legate

Shasta looks good, and Boro feels slightly better. Steve I still can't decide. Nerwen sounds her typical self. That's for toMorrow.

EDIT: xed with a bunch

Shastanis Althreduin

12-22-2012, 09:58 PM

I don't understand your thought process there. Those were the two people I suspected the most, and then one of them did something to make me suspect her less, so I voted for the other one. Why would that make my vote one that I don't care about? I would hate to cast a random vote, which is why I voted for the person I suspected the most.
I can understand that those were the two you found most suspicious, but it seemed to me that you had decided "Okay, these are the two I'm going to decide between" and basically left everyone else alone. I didn't really see a reason to have narrowed the field to two people so early.

Shastanis Althreduin

12-22-2012, 09:59 PM

I don't want to vote for any of the top three candidates. Bother.

Galadriel55

12-22-2012, 09:59 PM

I don't want to vote for any of the top three candidates. Bother.

Tough luck. :(

Inziladun

12-22-2012, 10:00 PM

Since it doesn't look like anyone's going to go with my top suspect, I have to think of myself here.

++Boro

Shastanis Althreduin

12-22-2012, 10:00 PM

++Boro

Voted for Sally, should know better (and I think has, in past games.) That's all I got.

Boromir88

12-22-2012, 10:01 PM

Deadline no more posting, please. Moddess will be back in roughly an hour.

I believe that makes me lynched.

I'll make all of you wait on Lottie now. Psh

Loslote

12-23-2012, 12:06 AM

Sorry I'm late! Ice skating performances took way longer than I'd thought they would.

Boro has been lynched. He was an ordo. Narration to follow.

Loslote

12-23-2012, 01:32 AM

As the sun dipped behind the mountains, staining their snowy peaks orange and purple and red, Christmastown was coming to a decision of sorts.

"Frosty seems absolutely guilty," said Paksu. "He won't even donate his hat to the Suzy Snowflake memorial? What kind of monster is that selfish after a tragedy like this!"

"Guilt hovers over him like the smell of fried fish in a house after you fry fish," moaned the Ghost of Christmas Present. "Frosty the Snowman has a heart of snow, and he'll murder us all if we don't stop him."

"I think it was Little Cindy Lou Who," Olive said. "She was always jealous of Suzy when she was growing up. Resentment grows with age, you know."

Tiny Tim nodded thoughtfully. "She has been awfully quiet toDay," he said. "A guilty conscience?"

"You should know better, Olive," Jack Frost snapped. "You can't pick on Little Cindy Lou Who. That shows a heartlessness matched only by the murderers of poor Suzy! In fact, I'd say you are one of the murderers!"

Santa nodded darkly. "I'm moving you to the darkest corner of the naughty list, Olive," he said.

"Really, Santa?" Rudolph said. "Honestly, you've been getting more and more ridiculous for years now. You've gone mad. It wouldn't surprise me if you were a murderer."

"Nonsense," Valkotukka said, "it's clearly Olive. The only reason she's even in Christmastown is because she forced her way up North because she 'thought Santa meant her' when he said 'all of the other reindeer'. I mean, really, who does that?"

"Olive it is," Frosty said firmly. No one else said a word as Jack Frost froze Olive's paws together. Santa lifted the little dog onto Rudolph's back, and Rodolph flew her out to the middle of a frozen lake and left her. Jack Frost froze a pyramid of ice over her, burying her completely. He left only a small gap at first.

"Did you kill Suzy?" the Sugar Plum Fairy asked.

"No!" Olive said. "You have to believe me!"

"Liar," Jack Frost growled, and froze shut the gap. Not even air could get in - Olive would either suffocate or freeze to death before the Night was over.

Living

Sally - Little Cindy Lou Who
Shasta - Jack Frost
G55 - Rudolph
Coppermirror - The Ghost of Christmas Present
Steve - Valkotukka
Morsul - The Grinch
Nerwen - The Sugar Plum Fairy
Zil - Frosty
McCaber - Tiny Tim
Lommy - Paksu
Legate - Santa Claus

Dead

Lottie - Suzy the Snowflake - Moddess
Boro - Olive the Other Reindeer - Ordo

Night 2...well, it started three and a half hours ago, but if you haven't already, wolves may talk, Seer may dream, and Ranger may send me someone to protect. Wolves, please send me the name an hour before DL so I can write the narration in advance.

Loslote

12-23-2012, 10:00 PM

"Poor, poor Olive," chuckled one of the two conspirators as they walked arm in arm down the snowy lane. "My heart just breaks for her!"

"I feel your pain," said the other with a straight face. "I couldn't bear to see her take the fall for our crime."

The two looked at each other with mournful expressions for a moment before bursting into laughter again. "That was fantastic," the first said. "I can't wait to do it again toMorrow."

"Now, now, don't get ahead of yourself," admonished the second. "After all, we still have toNight!"

"Mmm, and won't it be lovely? Now, I have this plan..." the two waltzed off into the darkness.

Meanwhile, as the moon rose and splashed its light through a window, it shone on not one, but two Christmastown inhabitants. The first lay curled up in a ball on the bed, the blanket pulled over his or her head. The only motion was the rise and fall of the blanket. The second sat on a chair nearby, staring intently at the door. There was no thought of sleep in this mind - only of ending this living nightmare.

The door banged open, the two murderers sauntered, laughing, into the room, the first person sat up in bed with a gasp, and the second stood and settled into a solid stance, all in close to the same instant.

"What are you doing here?" asked the first conspirator, shocked.

"To put a stop to this," the guardian said. "You will not kill again toNight."

"What's going on?" whimpered the person in the bed.

"Leave now, and never come back," ordered the guardian.

"Make us," said the second conspirator, smirking.

"Give us the dreamer," ordered the first.

"If you want this kill, come and claim it," the guardian said, confidently.

The two conspirators shifted uneasily. They suddenly noticed the sharp carving knife in the guardian's hand, and the torch he'd just shoved into the fire.

"You know," mumbled the first,

"On second thought," considered the second,

"Kill you later," they both said to the two Christmastowners, and fled the room, scrambling over each other as they went.

"Thank you so much," gasped the person in the bed. "But...who are you?"

"Never mind that," said the guardian. "They might try to kill again toNight. But I don't think they'd come back here." He hopped out an open window, running off into the Night to block the murderer's kills until Dawn.

Living

Sally - Little Cindy Lou Who
Shasta - Jack Frost
G55 - Rudolph
Coppermirror - The Ghost of Christmas Present
Steve - Valkotukka
Morsul - The Grinch
Nerwen - The Sugar Plum Fairy
Zil - Frosty
McCaber - Tiny Tim
Lommy - Paksu
Legate - Santa Claus

Dead

Lottie - Suzy the Snowflake - Moddess
Boro - Olive the Other Reindeer - Ordo

McCaber

12-23-2012, 10:05 PM

Good job, ranger!

Morsul the Dark

12-23-2012, 10:05 PM

Pretty sweet!

GO Ranger GO!

Wanted to what happened last night missed a big chunk of day sorry Christmas parties and such...

Tomorrow have a few hours and will look into Boro Votes and what else may be seen Good Night... or Morning as it may be in ChristmaWhoville

x'ed

Coppermirror

12-23-2012, 10:08 PM

Wow, we got lucky there. Good work, ranger.

I have to leave now, but I wrote up a post last Night. Looks as if I don't need to edit it in response to someone getting killed overNight after all. I'm just going to post it unabridged and head off to do Christmassy things.

Unabridged post:

What a tragedy! I'm terrified.

To think that Boro the Reindeer and [name] have been killed too. Truly, we must work harder to erase the Doom of Christmastown. I think we should beware those who haven't said their piece...but nobody seems to listen to ghosts around here.

Anyway, analysis. I wrote this up overNight, so it isn't up to date and may contain errors. I also didn't have time to finish it, so it only covers a few people, and I'll be so annoyed if one of those gets killed off overNight. Ideally I'd have looked at everyone. But for the people I have covered, I've got a few questions I'd like to have cleared up.

A pity that we lost Boro. Given our odds, it was quite likely that we'd lose an innocent yesterDay, so we can at least be happy that we lost an ordo rather than a gifted. But it really sucks, because Boro looked innocent and was being useful. He was actively participating and even suggesting new ways for people to discuss things.

I was a bit curious about people's choices for suspicion yesterDay, so I went through and counted how many posts each person made. Here's the post count from yesterDay (and a vote count, although not in order of timing):

Sally: 1 post (and no vote!)
Shasta: 10 posts (Voted Boro)
G55: 14 (Voted Legate)
Coppermirror: 14 (Voted Inzil)
Eonwe: 4 (Voted Boro)
Morsul: 6 (and no vote!)
Nerwen: 2 (and no vote!)
Inzil: 14 (Voted Boro)
Boro: 14 (Voted Sally)
McCaber: 6 (Voted Sally)
Thinlomien: 7 (Voted Inzil)
Legate: 7 (Voted Boro)

Accordingly, if we were simply going by voting for the most visible players, the biggest targets should have been...G55, me, Inzil, and Boro-innocent. All of whom came under a decent quantity of suspicion yesterDay, for one reason or another, and Boro who got voted off. I think we've messed up Day 1 rather badly in this regard. On the other hand, what were we supposed to do – suspect people who hadn't posted yet much? McCaber and Boro-innocent both ended up voting for Sally. They were both criticised for doing so, and I can see why. But, maybe they were right to take that tactic.

Three people haven't even voted. All of those people were among those who didn't post much, so there's little to go on there. Morsul mentioned in the admin post that RL things would cause problems for his participation, so I'll give him a free pass on that (although since he's also not going to be around much toDay, heaven help us if he's a wolf). Nerwen and Sally, though...

Given that three people didn't vote and that many people didn't post much at all, toDay I will be very wary of the possibility that all of the wolves could be among the non-voting and not-posting-much people. 5 people posted a decent amount, and 4 of those survived. 7 people remain who didn't post nearly as much.

Inzil

Inzil's voting yesterDay was probably, as he said, to save himself. At the time he voted, three people were tied on 2 votes: Inzil, Sally, and Boro. He said that this was because nobody was going for his top suspect – but he never said who his top suspect was. From what I can tell, his suspects late in the Day were G55, me, and Legate. (That's interesting, incidentally, as Boro-innocent listed those three as people he thought were up to some sort of scheme together.)

Inzil started to suspect me at the point when I said I was voting for him, thinking it was a bandwagon. The reason Inzil appeared to suspect G55 was because she was wanting to pick over the are-they-coded posts in the open. For Legate, the reasoning is as quoted below. None of these seem totally unreasonable reasons, given the low amount of serious discussion yesterDay.

I was considering G55, but Coppermirror's vote looks like a straight-up bandwagon attempt.
You're one of the two players I suspected the most toDay (albeit not on great grounds, but I don't have anything better to go by), and I decided not to vote for G55. I want to play straightforwardly here, and not be cowardly by failing to vote for the person I suspect the most, even if that means casting a second vote and perhaps looking suspicious because of that.
I can respect that, though it still looks opportunistic, much more so than Lommy's.

Legate does seem a littleoff, as in a little more detached and rushed-feeling, and I disagree with his suspicion of Boro. Still, I don't know that's enough grounds for a vote at this point.

Inzil, who is the person you suspected the most yesterDay?

I'm not sure whether I still suspect Inzil. Going through his later posts in more detail and at my leisure, there's actually nothing in particular there which stands out as suspicious. Hmm. Okay, no. I'll revise my opinion: I don't find Inzil nearly as suspicious toDay as I did yesterDay when I voted. If I was voting right now, I wouldn't vote for him (I'd probably vote for McCaber or even a submarine). But this isn't the same as thinking that he's innocent. Though seeing Inzil's reaction was helpful, I do regret that he had to vote for someone else to save himself from a three way tie, since if he is a wolf that would have been great cover for his voting choice.

McCaber

Right now I'm probably going to vote sally, but I'm willing to give her another hour or so to show up. Silence is most assuredly not golden here, but will just get you a lump of coal in your stocking.

Honestly, he [Eonwe] was so quiet I'd forgotten he existed. But seeing as he's contributed since then, he has deferred my wrath toDay.

I've given her an hour, and still nothing.
++sally
Let that be a warning to those who would remain silent.

Something that jumps out at me is that McCaber Tim has been very quiet for someone who decided to vote for someone based on a lack of posting and contributions. McCaber, why didn't you offer any analysis towards the end of the Day? You suggested “Maybe we should look for someone saying "I'm the Cobbler wolves please don't kill me" but you offered very little of substance at all, aside from that, and in fact most of your posts were about how you were going to vote for somebody quiet. I find it suspicious.

And anyone else – is this McCaber's usual playing style?

Sally – nothing to go on. Didn't vote, and only posted once.

Nerwen – hardly anything to go on. Didn't vote, and only posted twice.

Morsul – very little to go on. Didn't vote, and posted 6 times, mostly without substance at the bantering end of the game.

Legate:

Initially, Legate wanted us to look for Cobblers and people trying to respond to them. He didn't have a huge range of suspicions, but did suspect Boro.

Legate's suspicion of Boro-innocent's behaviour was hard to follow, and he ended up voting for Boro-innocent based on that. The vote was the first vote of the Day. If his suspicions were genuine, thinking that Boro was not acting like himself and being “really strangely noncommited at first and somewhat shifty now “ would be sufficient grounds for a vote. But I can't quite understand why Boro seemed shifty to Legate.

Legate, could you explain it a bit more, as concisely as possible?

On gut feelings yesterDay, I had considered Legate suspicious, but now I'm not so sure. But I would like to know more about the suspicion of Boro, even though Boro said that Legate's in the habit of voting for him.

In response to some things yesterDay which I didn't have time to comment on then:

I can understand that those were the two you found most suspicious, but it seemed to me that you had decided "Okay, these are the two I'm going to decide between" and basically left everyone else alone. I didn't really see a reason to have narrowed the field to two people so early.

Oh, okay, I see your reasoning now. But I think you were being too hasty in that line of thought. My vote was placed when the deadline was an hour and a half away. I don't consider that an early vote at all. I did mention about half an hour before I placed my vote that I intended to vote for Inzil, and that gave him a chance to respond. Placing a vote at that time also allowed me to watch and see how people would react, since I ended up being able to stay around to watch until the deadline. I mentioned this before, but I don't like it when all the meat of a Day's discussion is limited to the last few minutes, especially a Day 1.

If I have time later I'll look at yesterDay's posts for Shasta, G55, Eonwe and Thinlomien too, although by the time I get around to it it's likely that we'll have a bunch of new things to analyse. I'm too busy toDay for much.:(

I should note that I do find it suspicious when people show up close to the end without seeming to try contributing beforehand. Going by that on its own, Eonwe looks the worst.

I don't want to lead everyone off on a wild goose chase, but I'm still really confused about what Boromir was talking about yesterDay when he thought that there was something going on between me, G55 and Legate. Unfortunately he's not here to answer. I thought that maybe he was the cobbler when he posted that, but since he's a proven ordo now, his suspicion must have been genuine. And I have no idea what it could have been based on, which is annoying. Does anybody else have a guess?

Happy Christmas Eve to you all. :) We must not forget our Christmas cheer, even in these tragic times.

McCaber

12-23-2012, 10:13 PM

Voting record:
Lommy--> Inzil (1)
Legate--> Boro (1) *Not bolded
Cop--> Inzil (2)
Boro--> Sally (1)
McCaber--> Sally (2)
Steve--> Boro (2)
G55--> Legate (1)
Inzil--> Boro (3)
Shasta--> Boro (4)

If sally is a wolf, than it's likely that Eonwe would be one too, moving the vote off her to someone else.

Going just off voting records, G55 is looking rather suspicious throwing in a meaningless vote for someone which no chance of getting lynched, which is usually a good way for a wolfpack to not look united.

EDIT: crossed x2

McCaber

12-23-2012, 10:28 PM

Inzil's voting yesterDay was probably, as he said, to save himself. At the time he voted, three people were tied on 2 votes: Inzil, Sally, and Boro. He said that this was because nobody was going for his top suspect – but he never said who his top suspect was. From what I can tell, his suspects late in the Day were G55, me, and Legate. (That's interesting, incidentally, as Boro-innocent listed those three as people he thought were up to some sort of scheme together.)
When Boro got that second vote, he was the one put on the chopping block. No one else really suspected Inzil, so I'm not sure there wasn't some ulterior motive. Reasonable enough explanation, but I'm still wondering why he went with Boro over sally.

Something that jumps out at me is that McCaber Tim has been very quiet for someone who decided to vote for someone based on a lack of posting and contributions. McCaber, why didn't you offer any analysis towards the end of the Day? You suggested “Maybe we should look for someone saying "I'm the Cobbler wolves please don't kill me" but you offered very little of substance at all, aside from that, and in fact most of your posts were about how you were going to vote for somebody quiet. I find it suspicious.

And anyone else – is this McCaber's usual playing style?
Part of that is that I only realized the game had started like three hours before deadline. Part is that there really isn't much to say on Day 1. And part of it is just that I'm not naturally a very talkative person. I'm trying to get better at that, though.

Eönwë

12-24-2012, 06:22 AM

If sally is a wolf, than it's likely that Eonwe would be one too, moving the vote off her to someone else.
Shouldn't you also be considering Zil? He also had two votes by then.
Going just off voting records, G55 is looking rather suspicious throwing in a meaningless vote for someone which no chance of getting lynched, which is usually a good way for a wolfpack to not look united.
She could have potentially got Legate lynched if Zil and Shasta had been on board.
Part of that is that I only realized the game had started like three hours before deadline.
Isn't it bad form to make such a comment?

Anyway, I'll be back in a bit to look at people's suspicions and votes and all of that.

Inziladun

12-24-2012, 06:37 AM

Well done, Ranger!

In answer to Coppermirror, my top suspect nearing DL yesterDay was you, for what looked like opportunistic voting in you following Lommy. I didn't recall you thinking me particularly suspicious before that time, and it looked dodgy.
When Boro got that second vote, he was the one put on the chopping block. No one else really suspected Inzil, so I'm not sure there wasn't some ulterior motive. Reasonable enough explanation, but I'm still wondering why he went with Boro over sally.

Sally simply hadn't been around much, and I didn't want to vote for her on that basis.

Galadriel55

12-24-2012, 09:19 AM

Ha! That should show these two villains that they aren't the boss here! That should show them that the situation could be reversed! And it will be reversed! We'll make them scared instead of beig afraid of them! Way to go, Ranger!

[/weird random obligatory IC]*

But way to go Ranger for real!

Also, as a bit of thought from yesterDay, people should try and make an effort to post a bit more. Shasta, I know you know better than not to post like that again toDay. Steve and Nerwen too. You guys posted, but it was much too little for a proper evaluation. That's not to speak of sallycakes. Agreed that Shasta posted quite a lot. But very little different things, if I may say so. So, more please! :Merisu:

I'm going to look back at the thread and try to figure out what's where regarding the Night kill. I'll read everything over carefully and I suggest everyone does too. It would be hilarious if the wolves tried to kill their own cobbler! :rolleyes::D

Also going to do some figuring about the Boro-lynch.

*As a side note, I do not know anythng about Rudolph other than that he was a red nosed reindeer who had a very shiny nose that glows... Therefore it's hard for me to do strictly Rudolph IC banter when I'm in the mood.

satansaloser2005

12-24-2012, 10:15 AM

Well, that was certainly something pleasant to wake up to this morning. Excellent job, ranger!

I have loads of things to do today, but I'll be around from time to time and will be able to vote. Of course I have to catch up first....

Inziladun

12-24-2012, 10:43 AM

I'm going to look back at the thread and try to figure out what's where regarding the Night kill. I'll read everything over carefully and I suggest everyone does too. It would be hilarious if the wolves tried to kill their own cobbler! :rolleyes::D

It's pretty difficult to make anything of a Night-kill that didn't happen. Isn't that just blind speculation? :confused:

satansaloser2005

12-24-2012, 01:27 PM

In his #32, Morsul says Boro is "seeming pretty tame." Interesting choice of words....

In the same post, Morsul also says it's terrifying that Gal thinks like him (and that maybe she should get her head checked). I don't know if it's just the way Morsul runs his sentences together or what, but to say that she was like him, and that it was scary, but not furry scary....I'm not sure what to think of it. Probably just typical Morsul. Thoughts from others, perhaps?

In Lommie's #48, she says Dun feels intentionally lazy. I don't think I agree with this sentiment, in fact, though we'll get to that later. Agan wants him alive, and thus Dun is clearly a wolf. :p

Legate comments on Boro's lack of initiative in his #50 and #53, but we now know my ice cold prince meant us no harm. Given that Legate later voted for Boro, I am rather suspicious of this. His accusations just don't seem right to me.

Coppermirror's #55 mentions Dun's "this could be damaging" statements, which make Cop rather uneasy. This sentiment, unlike Lommie's, is one I am inclined to agree with. It looks shifty to me, not unlike a wolf looking to make himself look better by being unwilling to discuss that which might harm the village, all the while thinking about it from the safety of his igloo.

Nerwen's questioning of Legate's questioning in #60 brings up another good point: It's good to ask questions, but the one he asked about the cobbler seems strange to me. Asking if the cobbler were cursed would be a different matter entirely, but asking what he did doesn't sit right with me.

An even better point in the same post is Cop pointing out the possibility of a gifted Nerwen, though that seemed rather out of the question even before Boro was revealed to be innocent; Nerwen has always struck me as more smooth than that. Covering all the bases seems fair, but I generally don't like the idea of "oh, I think [living player] might be giving seer hints" being said out loud. I'm not ready to lynch Cop based just on this, but I don't like it either.

Boro's "next person in line should or shouldn't be killed because" or whatever plan wasn't the most sound idea I've heard, but Legate's reaction to it seems just as false as Legate claims Boro's plan is in the former's #61.

Gal's #72 gives a good shorthand of my difficulty with reading most of this game. So many IC things and Christmas silliness that I legitimately can't tell who's joking and who's actually talking about things.

In #85, Steve doesn't find Legate to be innocent, but he doesn't want to lynch him because he's generating discussion. That is a course of action that will kill us if Legate is a wolf. Take, for instance, Nog. Yes, Nog brings discussion and good points to the table. He is a balanced, talkative, sensible player. But if he's evil, he's evil, and we kill him. He doesn't get a pass just because he's keeping the thread active, and neither should Legate. This approach concerns me.

I appreciate Shasta standing up for me in his #95. *nuzzles* That's my lad.

Thus endeth Day 1. My commentary on toDay will be, well, less, unfortunately, but it'll be along, or at the very least a list.

Galadriel55

12-24-2012, 01:41 PM

I don't want to lead everyone off on a wild goose chase, but I'm still really confused about what Boromir was talking about yesterDay when he thought that there was something going on between me, G55 and Legate. Unfortunately he's not here to answer. I thought that maybe he was the cobbler when he posted that, but since he's a proven ordo now, his suspicion must have been genuine. And I have no idea what it could have been based on, which is annoying. Does anybody else have a guess?

Well, he said that something's going on, but he can't tell if good or bad.

If sally is a wolf, than it's likely that Eonwe would be one too, moving the vote off her to someone else.

If Inzil is a wolf, then it's likely that you would be one too. Same logic.

Going just off voting records, G55 is looking rather suspicious throwing in a meaningless vote for someone which no chance of getting lynched, which is usually a good way for a wolfpack to not look united.

A person who I said I would probably vote a good few hours before that, who, incidentally, was not without suspicion himself, with some people yet to vote.

Now, to the reversal of our situation from gloomy to a cheerful one (ie let's catch wolf): here's a list.

Cabbie - very secretive, he is.
Nerwen - posts like she would regardless of role.
Legate - hmm, humm, mayhap this one is not so alarming in hindsight.
Morsul - doesn't give a wolfy impression, but I wish he would write his thoughts a bit clearer.
Lommy - want to hear more from Da Penguin to have a solid impression. Just based on her vote, she's doing fine so far.
Cop - mixed feelings about her, really. Questionable. Like I said yesterDay, seemed both to be bandwagoning and almost being shoved into a bandwagon.
Steve - yet another one who I would like to see more of.
Shasta - careful and attentive reader, just like he always is. I know from experience that he knows what he's doing, and I hope he's doing it well and for the benefit of the right people.
Zil - his vote makes it hard to judge him either way, as both an innocent and a wolf could vote to save themselves. But I would echo Cop's request to hear who your susspects were (and are).
Sally – I hope you can catch up quickly so that we can hear you too.

Basically... erm, I can summarize the list with "more posts". :( It all comes down to more posts and information toDay.

This Day will last two Days, right?

EDIT: xed with sally! Yay!

Morsul the Dark

12-24-2012, 01:58 PM

ThinLommy hey hey hey

Post 14: (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678136&postcount=14) Lists first impressins clear just thoughts on each player on their own traits.

38-Decides to do another list
43- discusses Copp

Post 48 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678181&postcount=48)- Votes Zil for seeming sort of lazy, admits not the strongest mostly gut

SO it feels like Lommy is trying to make genuine prgress but running into blocks.

Morsul the Dark

12-24-2012, 02:32 PM

I'm currently thinking maybe a MCab Zil pacK

Zil's suspicions of Copper have grwn legs and spread but certain things she's saying make me doubt her furryness.

Mccab's vote for Sally seems rough, Sally just didn't make it here to post often yesterday I think we all gt caught up.

Nerwen Sally and I didn't vote this is fairly normal for NErwen but for Sally and I not so much I usually throw a half reasoned vote ut there Sally tries to be more meticulous... So vte based on her participation looks odd to me safe Sally won't be lynched but not contributing to the innocent Boro lynch

satansaloser2005

12-24-2012, 02:44 PM

Nerwen Sally and I didn't vote this is fairly normal for NErwen but for Sally and I not so much I usually throw a half reasoned vote ut there Sally tries to be more meticulous... So vte based on her participation looks odd to me safe Sally won't be lynched but not contributing to the innocent Boro lynch

I can't make Santa hats or reindeer tails of this sentence. Could someone please translate this into proper English (or Finnish, if more convenient)? :confused:

Eönwë

12-24-2012, 03:10 PM

So it looks like I was busier than I thought. But seriously, how has so little been said since I left? I'm going to go and reread and finally write that post now.

Eönwë

12-24-2012, 03:10 PM

I can't make Santa hats or reindeer tails of this sentence. Could someone please translate this into proper English (or Finnish, if more convenient)? :confused:

Does this help? :p

Nerwen, Sally enkä äänestä-tämä on melko normaalia Nerwen mutta ei niin paljon minulle ja Sally. Minulla on tapana heittää puoli perustellun äänestää siellä ja Sally yrittää olla huolellinen. Joten äänestys perustuu hänen osallistumiseen näyttää oudolta minulle - turvallinen - koska Sally ei lynkattiin mutta hän ei osallistu viattoman Boro lynch.

Inziladun

12-24-2012, 03:26 PM

Zil - his vote makes it hard to judge him either way, as both an innocent and a wolf could vote to save themselves. But I would echo Cop's request to hear who your susspects were (and are).

I addressed that here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678311&postcount=121).

As for current suspicions, you would be one. Did you give up on "figuring out" the Night-kill? :rolleyes:

This Day will last two Days, right?

I think so: DL is usual time on 12/25.

I can't make Santa hats or reindeer tails of this sentence. Could someone please translate this into proper English (or Finnish, if more convenient)? :confused:

Seconded.

Does this help? :p

Nerwen, Sally enkä äänestä-tämä on melko normaalia Nerwen mutta ei niin paljon minulle ja Sally. Minulla on tapana heittää puoli perustellun äänestää siellä ja Sally yrittää olla huolellinen. Joten äänestys perustuu hänen osallistumiseen näyttää oudolta minulle - turvallinen - koska Sally ei lynkattiin mutta hän ei osallistu viattoman Boro lynch.

Makes perfect sense. Thanks!

Eönwë

12-24-2012, 03:37 PM

Ok, I've just lost the post I was writing, so I may as well give what I assume Morsul means while trying to start again:

Nerwen, Sally and I didn't vote- this is fairly normal for Nerwen but not so much for me and Sally. I usually throw a half reasoned vote out there and Sally tries to be more meticulous. So a vote based on her participation looks odd to me - safe - since sally won't be lynched but he's not contributing to the innocent Boro lynch.

Galadriel55

12-24-2012, 03:41 PM

I addressed that here (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678311&postcount=121).

Ah, sorry. Must have missed that. My apologies.

Did you give up on "figuring out" the Night-kill? :rolleyes:

No, actually.

Galadriel55

12-24-2012, 03:43 PM

Ok, I've just lost the post I was writing, so I may as well give what I assume Morsul means while trying to start again:

Would you like a part-time job as a translator? ;)

Eönwë

12-24-2012, 03:50 PM

Legate This post seems like a good a jumping point as any
What did you mean here, Morsul?

Galadriel55

12-24-2012, 03:55 PM

What did you mean here, Morsul?

This is what I got out of it:

Opinion about Legate: his post (quoted above in Morsul's real post) seems as good a starting point as any (for discussion, action, etc)

Morsul the Dark

12-24-2012, 04:19 PM

I can't make Santa hats or reindeer tails of this sentence. Could someone please translate this into proper English (or Finnish, if more convenient)? :confused:

You're usually quite active when pssible a vote for low participation makes no sense.

Voting fr you does two things He gets a safe vote(IE you wouldn't be lynched.)
Lets say IF you're innocent that lynch wouldve put MCab in everyone's minds tday. because there was no way yu were going to be lynched that problem doesn't exist.

Voting you ver BORO also allowed McCab to not be part of the innocent's lynch putting him less in the sptlight.

I tried to be thorough let me know if it's still not clear.

Galadriel55

12-24-2012, 04:25 PM

You're usually quite active when pssible a vote for low participation makes no sense.

Voting fr you does two things He gets a safe vote(IE you wouldn't be lynched.)
Lets say IF you're innocent that lynch wouldve put MCab in everyone's minds tday. because there was no way yu were going to be lynched that problem doesn't exist.

Voting you ver BORO also allowed McCab to not be part of the innocent's lynch putting him less in the sptlight.

I tried to be thorough let me know if it's still not clear.

The only issue with that is that sally came darn close to being lynched for non-participation. If there was a safe sally-vote, it would have been for the reason that it doesn't tell anything about the role or the relationship of that person. Both wolves and innocents could vote for quiet people.

Morsul the Dark

12-24-2012, 04:28 PM

This is what I got out of it:

Opinion about Legate: his post (quoted above in Morsul's real post) seems as good a starting point as any (for discussion, action, etc)

My god girl, you, you understand me?

When I typed that I legate first which made the though mre clear... I meant his post was a good one to get serious on.

X'ed G55 I suppose that's true... Just seemed everyone's "she's quiet" was such an odd reason...

Galadriel55

12-24-2012, 04:33 PM

My god girl, you, you understand me?

I do? :confused:

Morsul the Dark

12-24-2012, 04:35 PM

This is what I got out of it:

Opinion about Legate: his post (quoted above in Morsul's real post) seems as good a starting point as any (for discussion, action, etc)

Right here you had my precise meaning:eek:

satansaloser2005

12-24-2012, 04:36 PM

When I typed that I legate first which made the though mre clear...

Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeve.... *whimpers*

EDIT: x'd with an understandable Morsul. God bless us, every one.

Eönwë

12-24-2012, 04:39 PM

#14 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678136&postcount=14) - Lommy's 'semi-real' list.
Potential suspicions:
G55
Morsul
Boro

#18 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678144&postcount=18) - Boro
Lommy, but he's not sure what.

#24 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678152&postcount=24) - G55
Brings up the reindeer-translating Lommy/Nerwen/Boro possibility, then rejects it straight away.

#29 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678160&postcount=29) - Boro
Adds CM to the Lommy/Nerwen/Boro trio to be discussed.

#31 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678162&postcount=31) - Morsul
Likes:
Boro
Lommy
[Something I don't understand with Legate]

#34 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678165&postcount=34) - Zil
Doesn't think it's worth examining the trio.

#35 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678166&postcount=35) - McCaber
Suspects Legate

#39 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678172&postcount=39) - Lommy posts a serious list.

Likes:
CM
Morsul
McCaber

Dislikes:
G55
Zil (possibly)

Uncertain of:
Legate
Boro

#44 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678177&postcount=44) - CM's semi-serious list

Potential accusation:
G55
Nerwen

#47 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678180&postcount=47) - Shasta
Has G55 is over-helpful, then retracts

#48 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678181&postcount=48) - Lommy votes
Zil

#50 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678184&postcount=50) - Legate-list

Suspects:
G55
Zil
Boro

Don't seem bad:
CM
Morsul
Nerwen
McCaber
Lommy

#51 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678185&postcount=51) - G55's gut-feeling post.

Likes:
Shasta
Zil

Unsure:
Morsul
CM
Nerwen
Lommy

Suspects:
Legate
Boro

#55 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678189&postcount=55) - Serious CM list

Likes:
Boro
Morsul
Lommy

Unsure:
Shasta
Nerwen
Legate

Dislikes:
G55
Inzil

#56 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678190&postcount=56) - Zil
Likes Lommy

#61 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678195&postcount=61) - Legate
Potential Boro suspicion

#62 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678196&postcount=62) - G55
Suspects:
Boro
Lommy

#65 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678199&postcount=65) - Legate
VERY light suspicion of CM

#70 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678204&postcount=70) - CM
Top suspect: Zil
Next suspect: G55

#72 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678206&postcount=72) - G55
Most likely to vote: Legate
Also suspects: Boro

#73 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678208&postcount=73) - Legate
Votes Boro

Vote tally:
Lommy -> Zil
Legate -> Boro

#74 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678209&postcount=74) - CM
Votes Zil

Vote tally:
Lommy -> Zil
Legate -> Boro
CM -> Zil (2)

#75 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678210&postcount=75) - McCaber
Plans to vote Sally

#79 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678214&postcount=79) - Steve-list

Innocent:
G55
Morsul

Not innocent enough:
Zil
Boro
McCaber
Lommy
Legate (as a Cobbler)

#80 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678215&postcount=80) - Boro
Suspects CM

#81 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678216&postcount=81) - Zil
Doesn't like:
CM
G55

#83 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678218&postcount=83) - Boro
Votes Sally

Vote tally:
Lommy -> Zil
Legate -> Boro
CM -> Zil (2)
Boro -> Sally

#84 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678219&postcount=84) - G55
Wants to go for Legate
Claims there's a CM bandwaggon

#85 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678220&postcount=85) - Steve
CM not cobbler

Though not entirely innocent, would rather not lynch:
Zil
Legate

#87 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678223&postcount=87) - Zil
Suspects Legate
Claims there is no CM bandwaggon

[TO BE CONTINUED]

And now I absolutely have to go, sadly just before the important part. I should be back in a few hours for a few hours, and then that'll be it for me until after Christmas.

edit: x-ed since my last.

Morsul the Dark

12-24-2012, 04:44 PM

Steeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeve.... *whimpers*

EDIT: x'd with an understandable Morsul. God bless us, every one.'

Minus a typo or two I'm not writing in code, poeple are starting this "Morsul is confusing" thing beyond a limit.

Morsul the Dark

12-24-2012, 04:49 PM

++mcCab

for reasons above... Also not sure I'll be back before DL tomorrow

Galadriel55

12-24-2012, 07:26 PM

I can totally understand those wolves. The lack of participation would make anyone not celebrating want to cancel Christmas. :(

In all seriousness, I hope that all of you are enjoying your Christmas in whichever way you're celebrating it, and WW is just WW. It happens more than once a year. :)

Shastanis Althreduin

12-24-2012, 09:24 PM

Can't speak for everyone, but that's why I haven't been here. And I likely won't be until later. I'll still be here at some point during the day, though.

Merry Christmas, all! :)

Inziladun

12-24-2012, 09:33 PM

Ditto here. I'll be on later tomorrow as much as possible.

I wish you all a merry and blessed Christmas.

Eönwë

12-24-2012, 09:46 PM

So, it looks like I'm not going to have any more time for toDay. I also feel, that with so little activity so far, it would be wrong to vote at this stage, so I'm abstaining for the Day.

Merry Christmas, everyone!

McCaber

12-25-2012, 01:16 AM

Merry Christmas, and may God bless us, everyone! (Wolves and other such unpleasant company excepted, of course.)

So I return from a holiday party to find that Morsul has voted me, for essentially voting sally like I said I would. Ultimata matter, so I backed up mine with action.

I'm still not really sure how Boro became the most suspicious one yesterDay. Legate was the first one to really suspect him, but I'm more inclined to believe that he was just trying to make a conversation happen than I am he's a wolf. G55, as near as I can tell, was the one who rolled with that accusation and made it stick.

Now according to our moddess we'll have yet another day before a DL. It looks like I won't have to go out all guns blazing on that but instead can get a night's sleep and see what things look like in the light of day. Evening, folks.

Coppermirror

12-25-2012, 04:57 AM

Happy Christmas, everyone! I've been having a great day. I'm going to respond to a couple of things people were saying to/about me and then I'm going to settle down and look at the voting record from yesterDay, go over the people I missed covering in my earlier post toDay, think about toDay so far, and try to catch us a wolf. I'm not sure how far I'll get with that before I go to sleep, but I'll make sure to do that when I wake up if not.

In answer to Coppermirror, my top suspect nearing DL yesterDay was you, for what looked like opportunistic voting in you following Lommy. I didn't recall you thinking me particularly suspicious before that time, and it looked dodgy.

Oh, I get it then. So, it's not just the fact I voted for you but that I didn't plainly mention a suspicion of you before she cast her vote for you. That's fair enough considering how little there was to by for anyone yesterDay. Although since Lommy was the first voter and few people at that point had put down any serious suspicion of anyone, that reasoning would have risked anyone making a second vote for you looking dodgy.

I don't know if you're still suspicious of me on those grounds, but in case you are, there's something which might be able to set your mind at rest. Note that when I first stated that I suspected you, my reasoning was this:

Inzil the Snowman. I feel uneasy about Inzil's comments, but I can't put my finger on why, and don't want to make a mistake. He suggested that analysing things too much at this point could be damaging, which is true, especially for the Boro-Nerwen-Lommy thing he was talking about. But we have to analyse based on what we have in front of us, or not at all, so there's no choice. Maybe it was his suggestion that it would harm the Christmas spirit that's bothering me.

That follows on in reasoning from a post I made before Lommy cast her vote, where my comment about you was

Zil - Frosty: Thinks that speculation based on nothing will only harm us and those of us who are in the Christmas spirit. I am very much a Christmas Spirit, so I sympathise with his views. But even so, we must analyse things. It's the weighing up of value that we must use our Christmas cheer for.

^ It should be possible for you to see my thought process there.

An even better point in the same post is Cop pointing out the possibility of a gifted Nerwen, though that seemed rather out of the question even before Boro was revealed to be innocent; Nerwen has always struck me as more smooth than that. Covering all the bases seems fair, but I generally don't like the idea of "oh, I think [living player] might be giving seer hints" being said out loud. I'm not ready to lynch Cop based just on this, but I don't like it either.

Basically, I considered whether what Nerwen said in that post could have been a potential Seer hint and decided it wasn't, but that it might be a wolf or cobbler trying to make themselves look that way. Because I'd decided it wasn't likely to be a genuine Seer hint, I didn't worry about saying so. See, the rest of what I was going on to say was that Nerwen's statement could have been "a wolf or Cobbler trying to look a little Seer-ish". The possibility of what she said being a Seer looking Seer-ish would have been implicit in that, even if I hadn't said I'd considered it (and decided it couldn't be).

I do find it a bit perturbing that anyone took that as actual speculation seeking out the Seer/a hint for wolves. I was aware that there's a taboo for obvious reasons on mentioning Seer-hints one thinks one's found, but didn't realise that it went as far as mentioning things that have been considered and basically discarded as a possibility (but which are still relevant to the discussion), to the point where people would rephrase that as "oh, I think [living player] might be giving seer hints" as you just have and which Nerwen did before (as "Hey, wolves, look what I found!"). I would find that sort of rephrasing suspicious of itself, but a few more people seemed to think the point was fair. Looks as if I've misjudged the level of paranoia for that element of the game.

And now I've finished writing this, there isn't time for the more productive stuff I'd hoped to cover. :( I'll have to do that in the morning.

Hope everyone's been having a great time!

Nerwen

12-25-2012, 07:09 AM

Basically, I considered whether what Nerwen said in that post could have been a potential Seer hint and decided it wasn't, but that it might be a wolf or cobbler trying to make themselves look that way. Because I'd decided it wasn't likely to be a genuine Seer hint, I didn't worry about saying so. See, the rest of what I was going on to say was that Nerwen's statement could have been "a wolf or Cobbler trying to look a little Seer-ish". The possibility of what she said being a Seer looking Seer-ish would have been implicit in that, even if I hadn't said I'd considered it (and decided it couldn't be).

I do find it a bit perturbing that anyone took that as actual speculation seeking out the Seer/a hint for wolves. I was aware that there's a taboo for obvious reasons on mentioning Seer-hints one thinks one's found, but didn't realise that it went as far as mentioning things that have been considered and basically discarded as a possibility (but which are still relevant to the discussion), to the point where people would rephrase that as "oh, I think [living player] might be giving seer hints" as you just have and which Nerwen did before (as "Hey, wolves, look what I found!").

Have a sugar-plum, my dear, and let me explain something. You may not think we of Fairyland know very much about footwear manufacture– but please remember the Shoemaker and the Elves.

Well. If one is the cobbler, and one believes one may have located a gifted, it is necessary merely to communicate this interesting fact to the wolves. Adding that the person in question "probably isn't" the Seer, with no reasoning at all behind it, won't change anything– the wolves will still see your post, and will draw their own conclusions.

I'm not saying that's what you actually did– this is not an accusation– but if you want to know why people didn't like your post, that's why.

Galadriel55

12-25-2012, 08:53 AM

I'm still not really sure how Boro became the most suspicious one yesterDay. Legate was the first one to really suspect him, but I'm more inclined to believe that he was just trying to make a conversation happen than I am he's a wolf. G55, as near as I can tell, was the one who rolled with that accusation and made it stick.

Can you say that again please, because I think I'm missing something? What accusation? I do not believe I've accused Boro of wolvery at any point.

And, in reality, Boro's words about Legwolf making an easy target of him are quite believable.

Galadriel55

12-25-2012, 03:44 PM

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/photos/25000000/Christmas-wolf-christmas-25094920-400-525.jpg

http://image.blingee.com/images15/content/output/000/000/000/4bb/351498326_1841395.gif

And a photo of me:

http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/241/8/6/gary_the_christmas_wolf_by_cozmodius-d2xl22a.png

;-)

PS: that's just some Gary that signed it...

Legate of Amon Lanc

12-25-2012, 04:03 PM

Merry Christmas all, or belated ones, hope you have enjoyed/are still enjoying it... Also, because of Christmas (as I'm sure for many of us), I am not going to be here posting anything long (I will be around more once again later), so for now only a few notes...

Legate, could you explain it a bit more, as concisely as possible?

It was several factors, of course. Basically the first thing about Boro that raised my attention, was him not behaving the way I am used to him behaving. He tends to be active and poking around people, especially when he's innocent (previously I had actually caught Borowolf a few times based on that, resp. once he killed me because he had succeeded in talking me out of it). Anyway, that was the starter, though at that point he wasn't alone - well, basically nobody had spoken anything actual at that point. But he was one of those I had expected to say something of value (given that it was like 5 hours before DL and midnight my time!). What sort of moved this further were his replies to me, which, looking back, is actually what I think had cost him my vote. But his posting just looked "dishonest" to me, or however should I call it, it simply had the sort of fabricated tone: he started really strong defense - it wasn't the content of it, but the manner. Especially that "why would you vote person X instead of you"-list idea seemed really fabricated, I still get that feeling when I remember it even now. And well, then I had to vote.

Speaking of this, to transit to the present, I still have similar feeling about some people's posts, similar like I did yesterDay. Mainly G55's posts sometimes give rather "fake" vibe, and partially also Cop - namely of the current issues, I am not 100% sure what to make of Cop's "pre-prepared" post. I am fine with somebody writing a post overNight when they know they e.g. are not going to have time to write in the Morning, even though of course we could debate how fishy is that since anyway, nobody except for Wolves knows who is going to die (thus how the mechanics of the game will look in the morning), and, perhaps more importantly, nobody except Wolves knows whether they are going to survive till morning - so what if it's a waste of time, huh? Of course, it can be only a nice brain exercise - but more importantly, I am not sure if I'm buying what Cop did, apparently making a point of having a pre-prepared post and showing off to us all that it contains the pre-made line "oh, poor Boro and [name]". Sort of looks to me like something a Wolf could do as "look everyone, here's a proof I didn't know who was going to die toNight, and I am proving it by showing you that in my draft, there is a blank spot I intended to fill in after the narration has been posted". I think an innocent could have pretty well just deleted the second name from the sentence after finding out that no [name] died, but this looks to me like intentional effort of trying to prove one's innocence.

From new things toDay I am feeling somewhat uncertain about Steve (his replies to McCab), though that's more just the air of it, nothing specific. And I still feel more or less genuine vibes from Morsul especially, even though I'd join to ask him to make his thoughts a bit clearer to us (and his vote seems a bit rushed, but apparently he thought DL might come).

Looking forward to see more people posting in the following time, also there are many I would like to form my opinion more strongly about (people with less show yesterDay like Shasta, people with less input yesterDay like Zil, people with no vote, like Nerwen and sally).
Like I said, I am not promising to be around extensively, but I hope to chime in at least once or twice tomorrow my time.

EDIT: x-ed with G55's very nice themed pictures :)

Coppermirror

12-25-2012, 04:20 PM

Rolling up my long, ghostly sleeves now...

I may be dragged out somewhere for an outing this afternoon, and I'm not sure when that will end, so there's a risk I'll miss the deadline. If I can decide on a vote in the next hour or so, I'll place it. Which means I've got to try to get through all this really quickly.

Voting record:
Lommy--> Inzil (1)
Legate--> Boro (1) *Not bolded
Cop--> Inzil (2)
Boro--> Sally (1)
McCaber--> Sally (2)
Steve--> Boro (2)
G55--> Legate (1)
Inzil--> Boro (3)
Shasta--> Boro (4)

Looking only at the voting record, the only person we know to be innocent was Boro, and he got 4 votes.

Of these:

Legate - hasn't shown up yet toDay, and so hasn't been able to answer my question asking for clarification about the reasons for finding Boro suspicious. I'm a bit in limbo on this issue, accordingly.

Eonwe - had been considering the possibility of a Boro-Legate pack. Other than that I can't seem to find his reasoning for his Boro vote. This is a bit unfortunate.

Eonwe, why did you vote for Boro? (...Based on what he said earlier, there's a big risk he won't be around to answer this.)

Inzil - says it was because he didn't want to vote for Sally, who mostly hadn't showed up and didn't have an opportunity to defend herself. That's not an unreasonable stance.

Shasta - voted right after Inzil did. They posted in the same minute, so it's possible that (a) he thought he was breaking the tie and hadn't seen Inzil's vote, or (b) he did see it, but wasn't prepared to raise up any other candidate (Sally or Inzil ) to three votes and force a tie/he needed to cast a vote.

His reasoning is just that Boro should have known better than to vote for somebody who wasn't there. He also didn't want to vote for any of the top three candidates. That's not unreasonable either.

It's difficult to draw a conclusion from all this. Legate drew a target on Boro for reasons I don't understand, and Eonwe followed up with a second vote based on reasoning I can't find (other than the possibility of a Boro-Legate pack).

For a moment I'll throw around the possibility of a Legate-Eonwe pack (and guys, I'm not accusing you here, just imagining scenarios). Legate apparently has a habit of voting for Boro early on in games. Knowing that and that Boro is innocent, they could use that as cover for a Boro vote, and Eonwe could follow on with it...But if that was planned out, would Eonwe omit to give any firm reasoning? Wolf-Eonwe wouldn't want to say "I suspect him for the same reason Legate does", but I find it hard to believe that someone would skimp on finding another reason. Provisionally, I'm going to conclude it's not likely that we have a Legate-Eonwe pack here. It's also just not likely that two wolves would vote for the same person when they're only a two-wolf pack.

Ah, and I see as I write this that Legate has posted with his reasoning for the Boro vote. I'll have to read that.

Nice pictures, G55!

Galadriel55

12-25-2012, 04:30 PM

Cop, the Modess has kindly extended the Day for another day. You don't have to worry about voting.

Galadriel55

12-25-2012, 04:49 PM

Speaking of this, to transit to the present, I still have similar feeling about some people's posts, similar like I did yesterDay. Mainly G55's posts sometimes give rather "fake" vibe, and partially also Cop - namely of the current issues, I am not 100% sure what to make of Cop's "pre-prepared" post. I am fine with somebody writing a post overNight when they know they e.g. are not going to have time to write in the Morning, even though of course we could debate how fishy is that since anyway, nobody except for Wolves knows who is going to die (thus how the mechanics of the game will look in the morning), and, perhaps more importantly, nobody except Wolves knows whether they are going to survive till morning - so what if it's a waste of time, huh? Of course, it can be only a nice brain exercise - but more importantly, I am not sure if I'm buying what Cop did, apparently making a point of having a pre-prepared post and showing off to us all that it contains the pre-made line "oh, poor Boro and [name]". Sort of looks to me like something a Wolf could do as "look everyone, here's a proof I didn't know who was going to die toNight, and I am proving it by showing you that in my draft, there is a blank spot I intended to fill in after the narration has been posted". I think an innocent could have pretty well just deleted the second name from the sentence after finding out that no [name] died, but this looks to me like intentional effort of trying to prove one's innocence.

I get you. *nods* I get you. I would generally agree with what you say. Except that I have myself written more posts overNight as an innocent than as a wolf (:rolleyes:). But I hear what you're saying about the [name] part of it. Can't say it proves Cop's guilt or, well, proves anything, but I suppose it adds to the air of... uncertainty? Do you get me?

I will leave that for Cop to answer herself. But I must say, I will consider the points you bring up, Legate.

I'm glad you both enjoyed the pictures. :D

Coppermirror

12-25-2012, 04:56 PM

I am fine with somebody writing a post overNight when they know they e.g. are not going to have time to write in the Morning, even though of course we could debate how fishy is that since anyway, nobody except for Wolves knows who is going to die (thus how the mechanics of the game will look in the morning), and, perhaps more importantly, nobody except Wolves knows whether they are going to survive till morning - so what if it's a waste of time, huh? Of course, it can be only a nice brain exercise - but more importantly, I am not sure if I'm buying what Cop did, apparently making a point of having a pre-prepared post and showing off to us all that it contains the pre-made line "oh, poor Boro and [name]". Sort of looks to me like something a Wolf could do as "look everyone, here's a proof I didn't know who was going to die toNight, and I am proving it by showing you that in my draft, there is a blank spot I intended to fill in after the narration has been posted". I think an innocent could have pretty well just deleted the second name from the sentence after finding out that no [name] died, but this looks to me like intentional effort of trying to prove one's innocence.

It's totally normal for me to write posts in advance of the Day beginning, if one can call things normal based upon only three games. For example, if you check the first game I played, where I was an ordo (relevant post here: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=673227&postcount=67) you'll see that I used a pre-prepared post on Day 2 then, although that time I did have the time to edit it. I wrote that one even though I thought there were 50% odds I'd be the one killed overNight.

I would actually have had to do more editing than just deleting the name from the sentence there. The surrounding lines would have had to be re-written too ("What a tragedy! I'm terrified" doesn't fit at all when the Ranger's just made a great save, does it? And so forth...), and on the evening of Christmas Eve with a heck of a lot still to do, I was relieved that because of the Ranger-save I could slap an unabridged on my prepared post and go away ASAP without checking through it and making alterations.

Cop, the Modess has kindly extended the Day for another day. You don't have to worry about voting.

Yes! Thank you, Loslote-Modess. :) That means I can take my time.

Inziladun

12-25-2012, 08:08 PM

Here momentarily. It's been a long day, with family visits unfortunately mingled with dangerous weather situations. All seems to be quieting down now though, and I plan to be around much more tomorrow.

I'm going to settle down and look at the voting record from yesterDay, go over the people I missed covering in my earlier post toDay, think about toDay so far, and try to catch us a wolf.

I'm not sure how far I'll get with that before I go to sleep, but I'll make sure to do that when I wake up if nOh, I get it then. So, it's not just the fact I voted for you but that I didn't plainly mention a suspicion of you before she cast her vote for you. That's fair enough considering how little there was to by for anyone yesterDay. Although since Lommy was the first voter and few people at that point had put down any serious suspicion of anyone, that reasoning would have risked anyone making a second vote for you looking dodgy.

Your explanation later in that post seems reasonable, I guess. On the minus side, I tend to be suspicious of people who make a point of saying "Let's get those wolves!", as if to spotlight their innocence. I will say you probably wouldn't be my primary candidate for a vote at this time.

I do find it a bit perturbing that anyone took that as actual speculation seeking out the Seer/a hint for wolves. I was aware that there's a taboo for obvious reasons on mentioning Seer-hints one thinks one's found, but didn't realise that it went as far as mentioning things that have been considered and basically discarded as a possibility (but which are still relevant to the discussion), to the point where people would rephrase that as "oh, I think [living player] might be giving seer hints" as you just have and which Nerwen did before (as "Hey, wolves, look what I found!"). I would find that sort of rephrasing suspicious of itself, but a few more people seemed to think the point was fair. Looks as if I've misjudged the level of paranoia for that element of the game.

Nerwen made a good point addressing this.

Can you say that again please, because I think I'm missing something? What accusation? I do not believe I've accused Boro of wolvery at any point.

I was curious about that myself.

Morsul the Dark

12-25-2012, 08:30 PM

Cop, the Modess has kindly extended the Day for another day. You don't have to worry about voting.

I totally didn't see the extension until now...

Still find McCab suspicious but obviously now that I have time I may find my vte unfortunate, as one big purpose of the vote was to avoid modfiring befre DL tonight(as I thought it was still tonight and whether or not I'd be back was in question...)

I hope this post is straight forward enough if not:

Silti löytää McCab epäluuloinen, mutta ilmeisesti nyt minulla on aikaa saatan löydän VTE valitettavaa, sillä yksi iso tarkoituksena äänestys oli välttää modfiring befre DL tänä iltana (koska ajattelin, että se oli vielä tänä iltana ja onko olisin takaisin oli kyseessä ...)***

***Courtesy of Google-Translate

Galadriel55

12-25-2012, 09:12 PM

I totally didn't see the extension until now...

Modlote posted it only after your vote, I think.

Nerwen

12-25-2012, 10:51 PM

more importantly, I am not sure if I'm buying what Cop did, apparently making a point of having a pre-prepared post and showing off to us all that it contains the pre-made line "oh, poor Boro and [name]". Sort of looks to me like something a Wolf could do as "look everyone, here's a proof I didn't know who was going to die toNight, and I am proving it by showing you that in my draft, there is a blank spot I intended to fill in after the narration has been posted". I think an innocent could have pretty well just deleted the second name from the sentence after finding out that no [name] died, but this looks to me like intentional effort of trying to prove one's innocence.
I thought of that too– but then an innocent– particularly one who has already been poked at a bit– might well be afraid that changing the name would be taken as a "wolf-slip". Although, I suppose you could say that her posting in general shows a bit too much concern with her "appearance".

My own problem with #177 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678301&postcount=117) is that it takes such a very long time to make a few, very obvious points that could have been made in a few lines.

Not that they're bad points, mind. McCaber's vote for Sally *is* peculiar– even, if that's not too loaded a word, "hypocritical", coming from someone who had barely been around himself. And his subsequent explanations don't really explain anything. Wolfish, though? It seems too clearly (and pointlessly) a "bad" vote for a wolf to make, unless there was a very good reason. In this case, the only one I could think of would be a Zil-McCaber pack, but I'll have to read through things to see how likely that might be.

I'll have more to say later, but I have to go now.

EDIT: fixed accidentally deleted sentence.

Galadriel55

12-25-2012, 11:01 PM

I thought of that too– but then an innocent– particularly one who has already been poked at a bit– might well be afraid that changing the name would be taken as a "wolf-slip". Although, I suppose you could say that her

...her? I hate it when computers delete stuff. :(

Nerwen

12-25-2012, 11:02 PM

...her? I hate it when computers delete stuff. :(

Don't know how that happened. I'll fix it.

Inziladun

12-26-2012, 11:15 AM

I totally didn't see the extension until now...

Still find McCab suspicious but obviously now that I have time I may find my vte unfortunate, as one big purpose of the vote was to avoid modfiring befre DL tonight(as I thought it was still tonight and whether or not I'd be back was in question...)

While it seems clear that your vote came when you were under the impression that the Day would end earlier, it looks a bit strange that you take such pains to explain it while still saying Cab is suspicious.

Galadriel55

12-26-2012, 02:22 PM

I was a bit curious about people's choices for suspicion yesterDay, so I went through and counted how many posts each person made. Here's the post count from yesterDay (and a vote count, although not in order of timing):

Sally: 1 post (and no vote!)
Shasta: 10 posts (Voted Boro)
G55: 14 (Voted Legate)
Coppermirror: 14 (Voted Inzil)
Eonwe: 4 (Voted Boro)
Morsul: 6 (and no vote!)
Nerwen: 2 (and no vote!)
Inzil: 14 (Voted Boro)
Boro: 14 (Voted Sally)
McCaber: 6 (Voted Sally)
Thinlomien: 7 (Voted Inzil)
Legate: 7 (Voted Boro)

Accordingly, if we were simply going by voting for the most visible players, the biggest targets should have been...G55, me, Inzil, and Boro-innocent. All of whom came under a decent quantity of suspicion yesterDay, for one reason or another, and Boro who got voted off. I think we've messed up Day 1 rather badly in this regard. On the other hand, what were we supposed to do – suspect people who hadn't posted yet much? McCaber and Boro-innocent both ended up voting for Sally. They were both criticised for doing so, and I can see why. But, maybe they were right to take that tactic.

This is a pretty decent point. But, as you say yourself, there's no solution and it doesn't exactly yield anything.

Given that three people didn't vote and that many people didn't post much at all, toDay I will be very wary of the possibility that all of the wolves could be among the non-voting and not-posting-much people. 5 people posted a decent amount, and 4 of those survived. 7 people remain who didn't post nearly as much.

Statistically, this is true. But I am positive that at least one of the wolves was among the people who did vote.

Something that jumps out at me is that McCaber Tim has been very quiet for someone who decided to vote for someone based on a lack of posting and contributions. McCaber, why didn't you offer any analysis towards the end of the Day? You suggested “Maybe we should look for someone saying "I'm the Cobbler wolves please don't kill me" but you offered very little of substance at all, aside from that, and in fact most of your posts were about how you were going to vote for somebody quiet. I find it suspicious.

And anyone else – is this McCaber's usual playing style?

Can't tell. I haven't played much with him, and that time he was just as secretive and quiet. I can't say that this behavious is necessarily suspicious, but it is quite irritating.

I should note that I do find it suspicious when people show up close to the end without seeming to try contributing beforehand. Going by that on its own, Eonwe looks the worst.

Can't see how that's suspicious. See, people don't wait around all day next to their computers (I wish!) but maybe RL doesn't allow them to participate earlier. Some have to leave really early because RL doesn't allow them to participate in the second half of the Day, but that's not suspicious. Why should the other one be?

In the same post, Morsul also says it's terrifying that Gal thinks like him (and that maybe she should get her head checked). I don't know if it's just the way Morsul runs his sentences together or what, but to say that she was like him, and that it was scary, but not furry scary....I'm not sure what to think of it. Probably just typical Morsul. Thoughts from others, perhaps?

So this is what happened. Boro said that he watched a bunch of videos to imitate reindeer sounds. Following that, both Morsul and I opened Youtube (well I don't know what Morsul opened but I used Youtube) and searched reindeer videos. Morsul said that it's not-in-game scary that I would think like him at all, not related to the game in any way.

I know that Morsul tends to say three sentences for one punctuation mark, but it's not as confusing as you make it sound.

Boro's "next person in line should or shouldn't be killed because" or whatever plan wasn't the most sound idea I've heard, but Legate's reaction to it seems just as false as Legate claims Boro's plan is in the former's #61.

I would not disagree or argue with you on this, but, in all honesty, I want to ask you: why is it that you didn't like Boro's idea? I thought it's quite innovative, and while it doesn't hand you down the village victory it's something new to analyse instead of the old worn-down pattern.

I'm currently thinking maybe a MCab Zil pacK

Zil's suspicions of Copper have grwn legs and spread but certain things she's saying make me doubt her furryness.

Mccab's vote for Sally seems rough, Sally just didn't make it here to post often yesterday I think we all gt caught up.

Nerwen Sally and I didn't vote this is fairly normal for NErwen but for Sally and I not so much I usually throw a half reasoned vote ut there Sally tries to be more meticulous... So vte based on her participation looks odd to me safe Sally won't be lynched but not contributing to the innocent Boro lynch

I think it is possible that one of them is a wolf, but something doesn't sit right about them as a pack. I do not think it's as simple as you make it sound. I would think that the wolves' connection would be less obvious.

You're usually quite active when pssible a vote for low participation makes no sense.

Voting fr you does two things He gets a safe vote(IE you wouldn't be lynched.)
Lets say IF you're innocent that lynch wouldve put MCab in everyone's minds tday. because there was no way yu were going to be lynched that problem doesn't exist.

Voting you ver BORO also allowed McCab to not be part of the innocent's lynch putting him less in the sptlight.

I tried to be thorough let me know if it's still not clear.

Morsul, a question for you. You've stated your suspicions on Cabbie and some thoughts on Lommy. What about everyone else? If you have time on your hands, would you mind making a list?

I'm not saying that's what you actually did– this is not an accusation– but if you want to know why people didn't like your post, that's why.

This makes me slightly uneasy upon reread. I would expect Nerwen to be less... nice? about it.

Gosh, writing posts in a pain when you're listening to old Russian music and watching Star Wars simultaneously!

Galadriel55

12-26-2012, 02:32 PM

Why is this game so dead? Post, people!

Shastanis Althreduin

12-26-2012, 02:32 PM

Just letting everyone know that I'm here... relatively. Expect thoughts from me in a few hours.

Edit - X'ed with G55, who is clearly not as exhausted from Christmas and immediately-following opening shifts at work as some people. :p

Inziladun

12-26-2012, 02:59 PM

Why is this game so dead? Post, people!

Out of curiosity, did you ever find anything useful in analyzing the Night-kill that didn't happen?

Galadriel55

12-26-2012, 03:10 PM

Out of curiosity, did you ever find anything useful in analyzing the Night-kill that didn't happen?

Generally, yes, I make my own conclusions about what could have happened during the Night, and yes, it does influence my opinion. That does not mean that I am right in my conclusions, but such speculation never hurts when kept to oneself and when not considered decisive.

Out of curiosity, why do you keep bringing it up?

Thinlómien

12-26-2012, 04:06 PM

Finally here! I hope you all had as nice Christmas as I did but it looks like you folks posted more. ;) I'll try to redeem that: now here are some thoughts...

YesterDay

Nerwen - The Sugar Plum Fairy: Shared reindeer language interpretations with us, and suggested through that that Boromir is a hooved wolf. Could be nothing but a joke. Could be an opportunistic Seer trying to hide an accusation, but probably isn't. Could be a wolf or Cobbler trying to look a little Seer-ish.
Translation: "Hey, wolves, look what I found!" No, really, are you sure you're not the Cobbler of Christmas Present?
Very sure, thank you. But you commenting on that and trying to make it look like a signal does give me something extra to analyse about whether or not you're the Cobbler or a wolf, given that the gist of my comment settled on it being more likely that your statement was a Cobbler or wolf sign. Granted, I haven't suspected you a huge amount yet.Wait, what???

End-of-Day1 Galadriel gives me a fishy feel. Both for praising my vote as impressive (which it wasn't) and her gut-feelingy suspicions that seem just fabricated. (Also "I haven't changed (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678219&postcount=84) my gut-feelings"... huh? Does that mean you intentionally change them sometimes???)

End-of-Day1 McCaber, on the other hand, seems pretty sincere but I agree with whoever said it's not very profitable for us that he intentionally withholds stuff. Furthermore, his vote is not very impressive really - it's little more than a random vote. (Come on, who abatsins otally from posting intentionally? Most likely people have RL stuff in those cases.) I also like End-of-Day-1 Eönwë. He seems pretty sharp. Shasta has a good point (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678235&postcount=98)about his vote possibly being suspiciously carefully structured, though.

Not really surprised about Boro being an ordo, and kind of curious about how that lynched happened. It seemed as if it came quite out of the blue even though it kept slowly unfolding during the later hald of the day. Have to think about that.

Last Night

I'm impressed! I don't remember when I last played with a ranger save. I am, however, a little sad of having less clues since there was no kill, but now it will be interesting to think who could have been targeted by both the wolves and the ranger last Night... Off the top of my head, I'd say Shasta, Nerwen, McCaber or Steve. Not very helpful, eh?

ToDay (it's been pretty long already)

I have to leave now, but I wrote up a post last Night. Looks as if I don't need to edit it in response to someone getting killed overNight after all. I'm just going to post it unabridged and head off to do Christmassy things.Ah, again the confidence in not getting killed... I have started witch hunts on this basis innumerable times. This time I'll just read on and see who starts it first... Although this one really makes my eyebrows jump with the pre-written condolences and all! Also pretty hypocritical-seeming commentary of yesterday in that post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678301&postcount=117). I'm really not very happy about Coppermirror atm... [Later comment: so it was Legate who first (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678365&postcount=156)brought it up! I knew it'd happen. Not sure what this makes me think of Legate. Probably that he and I think likewise.]

Looking at the voting record posted (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678302&postcount=118)by McC, I have to say that if Inzil is a wolf, we'd better have a good look at Monsieur McC himself. Steve could be a packmate of Inzil's too. G55's vote looks totally out of plce, and doesn't exactly make me less suspicious of her.

Ha! That should show these two villains that they aren't the boss here! That should show them that the situation could be reversed! And it will be reversed! We'll make them scared instead of beig afraid of them! Way to go, Ranger!

[/weird random obligatory IC]*This gal seems just way too self-conscious about what she's posting.

Sally seems pretty ok once she appears.

SO it feels like Lommy is trying to make genuine prgress but running into blocks.Thanks Morsul, that actually summarizes how I feel every single ww game. :D

Does this help?

Nerwen, Sally enkä äänestä-tämä on melko normaalia Nerwen mutta ei niin paljon minulle ja Sally. Minulla on tapana heittää puoli perustellun äänestää siellä ja Sally yrittää olla huolellinen. Joten äänestys perustuu hänen osallistumiseen näyttää oudolta minulle - turvallinen - koska Sally ei lynkattiin mutta hän ei osallistu viattoman Boro lynch.You just made my day, Eönwë!

Legate This post seems like a good a jumping point as any
What did you mean here, Morsul?That does seem pretty suspicious phrasing, I have to say! But it seems to suspicious to be an actual Freudian slip, especially as it's by Morsul.

For a moment I'll throw around the possibility of a Legate-Eonwe pack (and guys, I'm not accusing you here, just imagining scenarios). Legate apparently has a habit of voting for Boro early on in games. Knowing that and that Boro is innocent, they could use that as cover for a Boro vote, and Eonwe could follow on with it...But if that was planned out, would Eonwe omit to give any firm reasoning? Wolf-Eonwe wouldn't want to say "I suspect him for the same reason Legate does", but I find it hard to believe that someone would skimp on finding another reason. Provisionally, I'm going to conclude it's not likely that we have a Legate-Eonwe pack here. It's also just not likely that two wolves would vote for the same person when they're only a two-wolf pack.Fair reasoning.

Silti löytää McCab epäluuloinen, mutta ilmeisesti nyt minulla on aikaa saatan löydän VTE valitettavaa, sillä yksi iso tarkoituksena äänestys oli välttää modfiring befre DL tänä iltana (koska ajattelin, että se oli vielä tänä iltana ja onko olisin takaisin oli kyseessä ...)***Please don't kill me! *facepalms while laughing* This one actually makes sense more or less though!

I think from now on I could just post in Finnish, and you guys could google translate it, since it seems to go so well. Deal? :Merisu:

Ha, reading done! Now I could make a list. I have to vote relatively soon/early though, the DL being 6 am my time...

Inziladun

12-26-2012, 04:16 PM

Generally, yes, I make my own conclusions about what could have happened during the Night, and yes, it does influence my opinion. That does not mean that I am right in my conclusions, but such speculation never hurts when kept to oneself and when not considered decisive.

Out of curiosity, why do you keep bringing it up?

Because it seemed like an exercise in futility, potentially a "Look at me, I'm helpful" deal from a not-so-innocent.

Thinlómien

12-26-2012, 04:21 PM

Probably got presents this year

Sally - the little she's posted seems actually pretty good. She's reasonable and thinks independently. I'd still like to see more from here to judge better.

Morsul - a bit fishy, I admit, but my gut-feeling says innocent. Far from being my top concern atm.

Nerwen - mostly gut-feeling again, but I don't find her very suspicious. I'd like to hear more from her, though.

Legate - his Boro-suspicion seemed like basic misguided ordo-Legate :p and today he has a train of thought very similar to my own, which makes me feel good about him. Quite alright for the time being.

The blind spot of my elvish intelligence

Shasta - like Sally, a quiet and independent poster, but he reminds me a little too much of succesful wolf-Shastas to make me feel easy about him.

Eönwë - I like his uncompromising thinking (and his jokes!) and he seems reasonable. Then again, there's something about him - notably him seeming a likely packmate for several people - that doesn't really sit right with me.

Zil - I don't know. He's actually under my radar right now. He hasn't really imporved much since yesterDay - in comparison with the general level of discussion (and again it seems he has RL reasons) - but there are way more suspicious people around right now. I'm keeping an eye on him, I guess.

McCaber - he's a little contradictory and mysterious, and his part in yesterDay's voting doesn't look too good. Then again, his tone is honest, if I'm any judge. Keeping an eye on him too.

Probably didn't get presents this year

Galadriel - flimsy reasonings and weird phrasings, plus she's way too self-conscious. Definitely makes my alarm bells ring.

Coppermirror - I really didn't like that pre-written post (both as an idea and the content). Otherwise, not so bad. Just seems to be off a lot, I wonder if it's confusion or wolvishness.

edit: xed with Zil

satansaloser2005

12-26-2012, 04:51 PM

So this is what happened. Boro said that he watched a bunch of videos to imitate reindeer sounds. Following that, both Morsul and I opened Youtube (well I don't know what Morsul opened but I used Youtube) and searched reindeer videos. Morsul said that it's not-in-game scary that I would think like him at all, not related to the game in any way.

Aha! Yes, that actually makes sense. Thanks, Gal. I hadn't thought about it in that context. *headdesks*

Legate of Amon Lanc

12-26-2012, 04:53 PM

So, am I right in my calculations that the DL is supposed to come in something like 6, 7 hours? Does not really make me that happy since very many people haven't still showed up toDay at all, even though of course it is understandable and I am not the one who should complain, given that I also haven't been around. Still, one or two posts from the more obscure people like sally, or even Shasta who showed up basically only to excuse himself (though he promised more thoughts later, so I hope I'll still be around to read them, though I am planning to go to sleep in a couple of hours at most). Well, it is not such a tragedy, given the Ranger-save, technically, we can take this "extended Christmas Day" in some way as an extra-Day, with a lynch traded for a kill.

I am still pretty much wary of G55, who just keeps having the air of something not quite right there, and in some of her latter posts she seemed "agreeable", as if it was intentional way of trying to look like "Mrs. Agreeable". I was hoping for more from Steve, and I still hope he will show up. The same goes for Zil, who is really not very active, though it seems due to being busy. I must say I am pretty much in dark about McCab and actually haven't been thinking about him very much, because basically the only concrete thing about him is his vote for sally, which could've been an "easy vote", but that's about it, and I wouldn't necessarily put it past McCab to vote in such a way also as innocent.

I thought of that too– but then an innocent– particularly one who has already been poked at a bit– might well be afraid that changing the name would be taken as a "wolf-slip". Although, I suppose you could say that her posting in general shows a bit too much concern with her "appearance".

My own problem with #177 (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678301&postcount=117) is that it takes such a very long time to make a few, very obvious points that could have been made in a few lines.
Yes, the "appearance" part is definitely there. And that's exactly why I would not expect an innocent to really give it that much thought. Simply put, I think it's rather a Wolf-thing to make show of one's posts and so on, an innocent would most likely edit it and not think about it.

Though of course taking into account also what Cop had said about her earlier gaming style, and also the explanation
I would actually have had to do more editing than just deleting the name from the sentence there. The surrounding lines would have had to be re-written too ("What a tragedy! I'm terrified" doesn't fit at all when the Ranger's just made a great save, does it? And so forth...), and on the evening of Christmas Eve with a heck of a lot still to do, I was relieved that because of the Ranger-save I could slap an unabridged on my prepared post and go away ASAP without checking through it and making alterations.
It would be a plausible one. Though again it comes back to the question if an innocent would really bother himself with such things. I will have to think about it still.

As for Cop "taking long time to say obvious things", whereas I can see it being a "crime" in the eyes of some (and in a way in mine too, of course it's better to be clear and brief, but..)... it, exactly, isn't a crime by itself. So that wouldn't bother me. In such case, what is important is the content, whether it's long or short.

EDIT: x-ed with Lommy and sally

satansaloser2005

12-26-2012, 04:54 PM

I am in serious need of dinner and a few other things, but I'll be back before too long and will provide a list of suspicions and all that lovely stuff.

EDIT: x'd with Legate

Galadriel55

12-26-2012, 04:54 PM

End-of-Day1 Galadriel gives me a fishy feel. Both for praising my vote as impressive (which it wasn't) and her gut-feelingy suspicions that seem just fabricated. (Also "I haven't changed (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678219&postcount=84) my gut-feelings"... huh? Does that mean you intentionally change them sometimes???)

Well, you don't change your mind either, if you think about it. Either way, it was referring to the reason behind the vote: whatever you want to think it is, mind or gut, it has not changed.

That does seem pretty suspicious phrasing, I have to say! But it seems to suspicious to be an actual Freudian slip, especially as it's by Morsul.

Wait, what? What did I miss? How's it suspicious? It's just a bit muddled. :confused:

Edit: xed with Legate and sally x2

Thinlómien

12-26-2012, 05:09 PM

Well, you don't change your mind either, if you think about it. Either way, it was referring to the reason behind the vote: whatever you want to think it is, mind or gut, it has not changed.Actually, you can, if you think something over. Meanwhile, gut feelings seem to change by themselves. Or that's how I see it. However, it really isn't the only suspicious thing ou've said these past two Days.

Wait, what? What did I miss? How's it suspicious? It's just a bit muddled.Might be a language thing, but I think noting that a post looks like you can "jump" on it sounds pretty opportunistic and fishy. As if you were just looking for something you could grasp at.

Thinlómien

12-26-2012, 05:11 PM

Legate, the deadline is in a little less than 5 hours. See the Day1 beginning post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=678112&postcount=2)time stamp for the deadline, for example. :)

Inziladun

12-26-2012, 05:13 PM

Lommy's suspicion list looks quite a bit like one I would do at this time. Since I already was leaning toward her having an innocent air, that's helpful.

I would put Morsul in the Yellow category though, since I sometimes get the feeling he's trying to pull something.

x/d with Lommy x 2

Thinlómien

12-26-2012, 05:19 PM

I'm probably the easiest buddying-up victim in ww history, but Zil agreeing with me and saying I seem innocentish made me feel better about him too. ;)

Anyway

++Galadriel55

Easily the most suspicious person at the moment (which probably should be alarming. Where's the other wolf? And the cobbler?) If you need my reasons, see what I posted earlier toDay.

Now I'm off to bed. Happy remains of Boxing Day (or St. Stephen's, as you would say here) everyone and good night!

Galadriel55

12-26-2012, 05:37 PM

Might be a language thing, but I think noting that a post looks like you can "jump" on it sounds pretty opportunistic and fishy. As if you were just looking for something you could grasp at.

I think you're really overreaching here. To me it sounds muddled. Not more. If you look at it as a Freudian slip in the literal sense, that would suggest a wolf who all the time thinks of jumping on posts - which is actually not the best tactic for wolves to take as you usually susoect people based on those things. Can't see why jumping on posts would be plaguing a wolf's mind out of all the possibilities. And it's a very odd slip to make. I don't see your reason as a possibility. Moreover, the meaning of that sentence has already been clarified to the point that you would know what Morsul meant.

I don't like how you choose to press this issue. It is just like you did on Day1 - cast a shade of suspicion on someone and add that you don't truly believe in it, as though to distance yourself from it. I don't like it.

This gal seems just way too self-conscious about what she's posting.

Give me an example of obligatory IC that's not self-conscious.

Now that people are starting to post I'm having trouble keeping up! :p Yay! Posts! :D

EDIT: xed since Lommy at 180

Galadriel55

12-26-2012, 05:39 PM

Easily the most suspicious person at the moment (which probably should be alarming. Where's the other wolf? And the cobbler?)

Where indeed. :rolleyes:

Legate of Amon Lanc

12-26-2012, 05:40 PM

Okay, I did a little reread, and I should vote soon - so here a short list...

Sally - I can't honestly make a good judgement of her based on the little I have
Shasta - ditto
G55 - what I said about some "fabricated" feelings from some of her posts, with some having also the "Mrs. Agreeable" feel (although her short exchange with Zil wasn't that "agreeable", so maybe that's not really true anymore, however the fabricated tone remains)
Coppermirror - it's mostly the issue of the "poor Boro and [name]" post for me, though I can see the possibility of an innocent posting that as well, plus now, re-reading her posts a bit, I can see what Nerwen meant by the "little content", there is indeed much more of it than I thought, lot of what Cop says was really just recount of events of yesterDay with not making too many conclusions out of it. More to the point (still speaking of the pre-made post), I am not 100% happy about the easy throwing herself in with the list of other voted-for people (G55 and Zil) and the known innocent Boro. Could be a sort of "self-victimization" (while putting the name of a fellow innocent there), and reminded me of G55's insistance that "it looked like Cop-bandwagon could appear" yesterDay, and made me wonder if there might be a connection between those ideas.
Steve - I would just hope to see him around more. On re-read, I don't seem to recall what seemed so strange to me about his posting earlier. Actually, his posts have been toDay largely only short things, some lists etc. with not much content altogether. Some people said his vote yesterDay could have been a Wolf jumping on a bandwagon, though again, he could have jumped on either of the existing ones by the time he voted, unless he didn't care and/or there was a Wolf being voted for (though since there are only two Wolves, they would not have been both if Steve was one as well). All in all, needs more input, that's about it. But watching.
Morsul - despite his "hasty" vote (which he evidently thought belonged there), I still think he's being an innocent Morsul.
Nerwen - she is actually also one of the players who are not really as vocal or active as I might have expected her to be. But it is certain she brings out some good points in a Nerwen-esque fashion (though only a few). Basically it comes down to my wish that people would post a bit more than just "single-thought posts"...
Zil - ditto, as for toDay, there wasn't really that much. His little exchange with Galadriel was sort of interesting, but not really enough for making any conclusions.
McCaber - what I said, pretty much under my radar (or reindeer, to keep "themed") for the moment
Lommy - her thought processes seem similar to mine ;) Now I wonder if I should be worried, but I can't imagine her mentioning that being e.g. a trick aimed only at me to lull me into trusting her or something similarly unlikely. So only in case you found my dead body toMorrow, then perhaps she should be looked at. On a bit more serious note, I really don't see anything suspicious about her so far, she seems to try to make an effort and not really sounding in any way false or anything.

EDIT: x-ed with Lommy's vote and on

Coppermirror

12-26-2012, 05:52 PM

Back, reading, and trying to put together a current chart categorising suspicions. Looks as if worryingly little has happened since I was here last.

Galadriel55

12-26-2012, 05:54 PM

Sally - still digesting her posts. Leaning on the innocent side.

Shasta - I have hoped to see more of him. But he did promise to be around later.

Coppermirror - Just the same as before. Some mixed feelings.

Steve - see Shasta

Morsul - sounds innocent enough.

Nerwen - posts like her typical self mostly. Nothing alarming.

Zil - don't like our little peasant exchange, but then it could be comming from an innocent Zil too.

McCaber - that vote of his *sigh*. I have asked him a question regarding something he has said earlier, but he still hasn't come back to reply.

Lommy - don't like it how she paints suspicion on people while pretending not to hold the paintbrush.

Legate - has an interesting back-and-forth with Nerwen which makes me wonder about what could be the connection between the two, but no conclusions yet. May be just any typical back-and-forth. Also, that part discussing Lommy in his list - I'll have to reread that.

EDIT: xed with Cop

Galadriel55

12-26-2012, 06:13 PM

Lommy - her thought processes seem similar to mine ;) Now I wonder if I should be worried, but I can't imagine her mentioning that being e.g. a trick aimed only at me to lull me into trusting her or something similarly unlikely. So only in case you found my dead body toMorrow, then perhaps she should be looked at. On a bit more serious note, I really don't see anything suspicious about her so far, she seems to try to make an effort and not really sounding in any way false or anything.

Also, that part discussing Lommy in his list - I'll have to reread that.

I have consdidered this and decided that it's unlikely that Lommy and Legate are in cahoots, so at least this interesting relationship is sorted out into the right cubby in my head.

Legate of Amon Lanc

12-26-2012, 06:19 PM

Well, I have to vote, and there hasn't been really very much to go with. I think G55 is a good vote as any, and her last post does not really add to the impression I have of her.

++G55

Even though I am still curious about Cop as well, and definitely would like to look more at the more silent players too, Gal does not really look to me like an innocent Gal at all.

EDIT: x-ed with G55... this looks like even more grasping on straws, actually.

Good Night, village.

Nerwen

12-26-2012, 06:27 PM

Back and reading.

Coppermirror

12-26-2012, 06:38 PM

Galadriel55

12-26-2012, 06:48 PM

I'm still reading through the earlier posts and drawing impressions from those, but seeing the current trend towards G55 votes, I'd really like to know what G55 has to say about that. Could you respond to the suspicions that you're not acting like an innocent G55, if you're around?

I have responded to the clear-cut suspicions (or some at any rate... have I missed any? I can address those if you bring them up), but what can I tell you if I don't sound innocent enough for you?

That's a very easy reason to get me lynched by. And not something I can prove someone wrong about (no, I do sound innocent! - doesn't work, does it?). And I have been lynched for something similar in the past.

Tell me, do I sound fake to you? Just out of curiosity. Because, you know, you don't have to base your decision off a trend, whether it be in the negative or positive way.

McCaber

12-26-2012, 06:56 PM

Coppermirror

12-26-2012, 07:01 PM

Tell me, do I sound fake to you? Just out of curiosity. Because, you know, you don't have to base your decision off a trend, whether it be in the negative or positive way.

I've just got to your name on the analysis list I'm doing and am just beginning to look through your posts now, so no, I haven't yet got a decent opinion on whether or not you're looking innocent. From what I've heard before and what you're saying now, you have been lynched while innocent for just sounding "wrong" a fair amount of times before.

You do seem a bit worked up, but that could be caused by getting two votes so far, and it also seems to me that a decent amount of people are cooler-headed as wolves than they are as innocents.

Galadriel55

12-26-2012, 07:11 PM

Ah, screw all my plots and schemes, they never work anyways.

I am an Ordo.

On Day One I thought I'd make myself look like the Seer, so as to distract the wolves the following Night. However, all my suspicions have been genuine and very true. I have indeed suspected Legate based on feel. And I do believe I was the target last Night for that very reason.

ToDay, based on that belief (and, objectively speaking, I was the most Seerish looking person around), I decided to play Cobbler and try to get a reaction from Legate.

Now, I have considered the possibility that, assuming the wolves targeted me, they have done so to lead everyone down a false trail. However, at the same time, the wolves would not want to waste a kill on a person who is likely to be protected, so I think they would have come up with a better option if they weren't desperate. Get what I'm saying?

Plus, there are instances where I sensed Legate hinting at me. Especially the "fake" posts...

So, my conclusions, based on the above. Legate is a wolf. Last Night he was thinking that I have dreamt him on Night1 (which I did not, but he didn't know that). ToDay, as a means of trying to explore the possibilities this gave me, I did my best to dissuade him of my Seerness and persuade him that I am the Cobbler, which was also kinda difficult because I wanted to get him lynched.

Who is his mate and who is the real cobbler? Dunno. Nerwen and Lommy are worth looking into, but Lommy doesn't look like a potential mate, more like a cobbler. And Eonwe, Cabbie, and Zil are under a questionmark.

So, here's my proposition. Lynch Legate toDay. If he's not a wolf you can always burn me at the stake toMorrow. Deal?

++Legate

EDIT: xed since my last

Shastanis Althreduin

12-26-2012, 07:12 PM

Back and reading. I do have to say my initial impression of the G55-wagon is that of... convenience, almost, although I can hardly blame Legate for wanting more content from people. I'll go through and do a more detailed post momentarily.

Nerwen

12-26-2012, 07:15 PM

Just a note: I see various people have mentioned my lack of posting. The fact is, a Sugar-Plum Fairy has a *lot* to do at Christmas– sometimes not even murders can get in the way of that.

I'm still reading through the earlier posts and drawing impressions from those, but seeing the current trend towards G55 votes, I'd really like to know what G55 has to say about that. Could you respond to the suspicions that you're not acting like an innocent G55, if you're around?
And how is G55 supposed to answer that? "Yes, I am so!"?:rolleyes: Really, that looks like a very calculating post, and does not make me think better of you, Cop.

But since you ask– I think what they are mainly talking about is– well the same thing I noted about you, actually– a general air of self-consciousness, as though she's been posting more with a view to "looking good" than anything else.

That said, I'm rather concerned the suspicion around her may be partly built on McCaber's statement about her having been "the one who rolled with that accusation [i.e. Boro's being a wolf] and made it stick"– which doesn't seem to be what happened at all.

EDIT:X'd since Cop at #192.

satansaloser2005

12-26-2012, 07:16 PM

Don't trust:
Legate
Dun

Shifty:
Cop
McCaber

Unconcerned at present:
Lommie
Gal
Morsul
Nerwen

Will not vote toDay:
Shasta
Steve

The top two categories are open for business.

EDIT: x'd since the last McCaber

Galadriel55

12-26-2012, 07:26 PM

That said, I'm rather concerned the suspicion around her may be partly built on McCaber's statement about her having been "the one who rolled with that accusation [i.e. Boro's being a wolf] and made it stick"– which doesn't seem to be what happened at all.

Well, I don't know. A lot of it seems to have been based on feel. No one really mentioned Cabbie's early post as a part of the basis of their suspicion of me.

The top two categories are open for business.

Don't know about Zil, but I won't mind a Legate lynch at all.

Nerwen

12-26-2012, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Nerwen
That said, I'm rather concerned the suspicion around her may be partly built on McCaber's statement about her having been "the one who rolled with that accusation [i.e. Boro's being a wolf] and made it stick"– which doesn't seem to be what happened at all.
Well, I don't know. A lot of it seems to have been based on feel. No one really mentioned Cabbie's early post as a part of the basis of their suspicion of me.
I didn't explain that very well. I mean it looks to me like the kind of thing that can arise when people, either with sinister motives, or just in a hurry, skim the thread and notice "hmmn, well, x suspects y... hey, looks like y could be a good person to suspect..."

Galadriel55

12-26-2012, 07:39 PM

I didn't explain that very well. I mean it looks to me like the kind of thing that can arise when people, either with sinister motives, or just in a hurry, skim the thread and notice "hmmn, well, x suspects y... hey, looks like y could be a good person to suspect..."

Ah. In that case it's quite possible.

In reality, all that would have taken to make me suspicious was overacting the cobbler role, but if that is the case I would wonder why no one considered the connection I was trying to establish with Legate. I was only intending to be cobblerish only when talking to him, not in regards to any other issues. :confused:

Coppermirror

12-26-2012, 07:51 PM

Wow, with what's been going on in the last few posts, that changes things a bit. Finally something really interesting has happened!

So I'm going to go ahead and post my incomplete list of suspicions and do the rest in a bit, otherwise it's all going to be 100% out of date by the time I finish writing.

Sally - Had one post including well-reasoned analysis, but has posted very little aside from that. She's said she'll be posting later with a suspicions list, which is good. On the basis of her posts so far I'm not very concerned about her.

Shasta - I'm on the fence about Shasta. I've seen an innocent Shasta and a guilty Shasta before, but in this game I've been unable to draw a conclusion so far about which he's acting most like. I really need to see more posts from him.

Morsul- Not particularly worried about Morsul, although he doesn't seem to have been posting a lot, and that makes him much harder to analyse.

Nerwen- Going by gut feelings about her tone, and having seen a few more posts from her, my concerns have lessened a bit. I'm not getting especially suspicious vibes from her, and her arguments are mostly hanging together. (Then again, if she were guilty my impression is that she'd probably make coherent arguments too.)

But looking through her posts toDay one by one, I see there hasn't been a huge amount of content (proviso: this has not exactly been Super Content Day for anyone). She addresses a number of points about my posts in reasonable depth, and considers McCaber, but there's not a lot of discussion about other people to consider, and that makes her a lot harder to judge. She said she'd be back later with more thoughts, though.

G55 - One of the most active players. Posted a gut suspicions list and voted for Legate. Overall, I was suspicious of her early on Day 1, but thought as the Day progressed that her gut suspicions looked genuine, so I decided not to vote for her.

ToDay, overall, she looked a bit erratic at times, most notably in post #185, and seemed a bit worked up.

And with G55's latest post, that knocks most previous views of her out of the water.

At first glance I'm actually inclined to believe her. But even if she's an ordo as claimed, it doesn't necessarily follow that she's correct and that Legate is a wolf. I'm going to think this over.

And how is G55 supposed to answer that? "Yes, I am so!"?:rolleyes: Really, that looks like a very calculating post, and does not make me think better of you, Cop.

At the risk of making your suspicions about self-consciousness from me worse, I'll respond to this. :p

Of course my post was calculating. I wanted more information from G55. How would she respond to it? And her response was useful for me, both in her tone and in her mention of previous occasions.

In particular, Legate had been saying that G55's conduct was strange in her last few posts before his vote for her. And really, post #185 looked a little odd, as if G55 was saying she was the Cobbler. She ended up not addressing that point in her reply to me.

And now with G55's big statement...G55 playing a pretend-Seer and pretend-Cobbler so far actually does fit pretty well with things so far. Boro thought he saw something either good or bad going on with me, G55 and Legate. Maybe it was fake Seer-hints from G55 implicating Legate that he saw, and me coincidentally backing off from G55 around then?

ToDay when I brought up what Boro had said, G55 answered a little oddly, saying that Boro hadn't been sure whether it was good or bad.

So...I think I'll believe G55 toDay. But that doesn't mean I'll vote for Legate just like that. I'm going to go now to look through Legate's posts to see if I can see the dynamic that G55 claims is there.

Edit: cross-posted with all of this page so far.

Inziladun

12-26-2012, 07:59 PM

After getting off of work and doing some rereading, I have to rescind my accusations of G55. I misremembered what happened yesterDay and didn't do enough study on the holidays.

Legate, on the other hand, only gets worse while looking back. He jumped all over Boro yesterDay and really didn't do that good of a job explaining himself. I didn't want to believe it, but he looked like a wolf confident that he could get rid of a tough enemy early on a weak case.

Second thoughts are well enough, but it looks odd that this comes as G55 gets serious suspicion and votes. Just saying.

I am an Ordo.

On Day One I thought I'd make myself look like the Seer, so as to distract the wolves the following Night. However, all my suspicions have been genuine and very true. I have indeed suspected Legate based on feel. And I do believe I was the target last Night for that very reason.

ToDay, based on that belief (and, objectively speaking, I was the most Seerish looking person around), I decided to play Cobbler and try to get a reaction from Legate.

Now, I have considered the possibility that, assuming the wolves targeted me, they have done so to lead everyone down a false trail. However, at the same time, the wolves would not want to waste a kill on a person who is likely to be protected, so I think they would have come up with a better option if they weren't desperate. Get what I'm sayiing?

From the time you first brought up looking for information on the Night-kill, my issue has been that you had no way to know who was the intended target unless you were a wolf or the Ranger. I couldn't see the Ranger saying things like that.

But now..would a wolf try this? The Cobbler might, but why?

Don't trust:
Legate
Dun

Shifty:
Cop
McCaber

Unconcerned at present:
Lommie
Gal
Morsul
Nerwen

Will not vote toDay:
Shasta
Steve

The top two categories are open for business.

Reasons for these?

Galadriel55

12-26-2012, 07:59 PM

ToDay when I brought up what Boro had said, G55 answered a little oddly, saying that Boro hadn't been sure whether it was good or bad.

Which he indeed wasn't:

For instance, think I'm blind to the fact Legate, Copper, and G55 are up to something...but whether that be good or bad I can't quite determine yet. But given enough time, usually you can tell soon enough.

Though you are probably right about what he was referring to... unless he has somehow swapped accounts with Shasta. :p

Edit: xed with Zil

Nerwen

12-26-2012, 08:06 PM

Originally Posted by Nerwen
And how is G55 supposed to answer that? "Yes, I am so!"? Really, that looks like a very calculating post, and does not make me think better of you, Cop.
At the risk of making your suspicions about self-consciousness from me worse, I'll respond to this.

Of course my post was calculating. I wanted more information from G55. How would she respond to it? And her response was useful for me, both in her tone and in her mention of previous occasions.
It actually is, yes– but you see that really surprised me, because it's hard to defend oneself against something as vague as "feels wrong" or "not posting like her usual self". I may have mistaken your intention there, but I thought you might be setting her up to make an ineffectual defence that would then give you an excuse to lynch her.

EDIT: X'd since Coppermirror at #203.

Galadriel55

12-26-2012, 08:07 PM

From the time you first brought up looking for information on the Night-kill, my issue has been that you had no way to know who was the intended target unless you were a wolf or the Ranger. I couldn't see the Ranger saying things like that.

Well, or a person who looks at things objectively and ask themselves if it's a coincidence that the Ranger and the wolves targeted the same person.

Of course it could be - in which case all my theories collapse and you can lynch me all you want toMorrow. But how likely?

Once again, standing in the wolves' shoes, if you have a choice between equally appealing dinner, you would avoid the one that is the most likely to be protected by the Ranger. Unless you're pretty desperate to kill that person, so that you would go for them even at great risk of wasting a kill and giving the Ranger an innocent.

I agree, it could be a coincidence. But the wolves are smarter than that. And, realistically, what's the likelihood?

EDIT: xed with Nerwen

McCaber

12-26-2012, 08:08 PM

Votes:
Morsul --> McCaber (1)
Lommy --> G55 (1)
Legate --> G55 (2)
G55 --> Legate (1)

Yet to vote:
sally
Nerwen
Shasta
CM
Eonwe
Inzil
McCaber

Galadriel55

12-26-2012, 08:12 PM

Second thoughts are well enough, but it looks odd that this comes as G55 gets serious suspicion and votes. Just saying.

On behalf of Cabbie, I would say that the timing wasn't really up to him, in the same way that it wasn't up to Morsul when he had to vote early. It's one thing if you post continuously during the Day and pick a convenient moment to switch sides, and if you just didn't have computer access most of the Day and come back to a different situation.

Inziladun

12-26-2012, 08:14 PM

On behalf of Cabbie, I would say that the timing wasn't really up to him, in the same way that it wasn't up to Morsul when he had to vote early. It's one thing if you post continuously during the Day and pick a convenient moment to switch sides, and if you just didn't have computer access most of the Day and come back to a different situation.

I'd simply been leaning toward an evil you, and all this needs digesting.

Inziladun

12-26-2012, 08:17 PM

Ok. Know what? I can't see a wolf doing this. A Cobbler might, but I don't see a motive for it. A Cobbler would be happy to take one for the wolves. What the heck.

++Legate

McCaber

12-26-2012, 08:18 PM

Second thoughts are well enough, but it looks odd that this comes as G55 gets serious suspicion and votes. Just saying.

I thought that too, but one of the votes came from an already-suspicious-looking Legate probably trying to move some of the heat off of himself.

EDIT: x'd with Inzil

Nerwen

12-26-2012, 08:18 PM

Well, or a person who looks at things objectively and ask themselves if it's a coincidence that the Ranger and the wolves targeted the same person.

Of course it could be - in which case all my theories collapse and you can lynch me all you want toMorrow. But how likely?

Once again, standing in the wolves' shoes, if you have a choice between equally appealing dinner, you would avoid the one that is the most likely to be protected by the Ranger. Unless you're pretty desperate to kill that person, so that you would go for them even at great risk of wasting a kill and giving the Ranger an innocent.

I agree, it could be a coincidence. But the wolves are smarter than that. And, realistically, what's the likelihood?
Not great– but a bit higher than usual in this particular village, simply because of the low numbers. You do have to factor that in.

EDIT:X'd since G55.

Inziladun

12-26-2012, 08:23 PM

I may regret that vote, but that's an awfully convoluted defense from an evil G55. If you're a wolf, hats off.

McCaber

12-26-2012, 08:26 PM

Now I look like a bandwagoner, but he genuinely looks the most suspicious.

++Legate

If we're wrong, at least we'll have some solid leads on where to go toMorrow.

(Also, highlight is really fun to type. I don't know why I never noticed that before.)

Coppermirror

12-26-2012, 08:28 PM

I've finished looking through the G55 and Legate posts until now, and as a result I'm pretty suspicious of Legate. I intend to vote for him, but I won't place it yet.

Shastanis Althreduin

12-26-2012, 08:39 PM

My post was about half done when I got dragged away to the grocery store. I'll finish it when I get home (posting this from my phone) but as of right now I'm suspicious of Eonwe and, if the current trend is that G55 is showing signs of cobblery, then I'm even more suspicious.

Shastanis Althreduin

12-26-2012, 08:40 PM

Lots of Legate voting going on. It's really almost unanimous, actually, which raises my hackles a bit.

satansaloser2005

12-26-2012, 08:43 PM

I keep dozing off. Best vote now just in case.

++Legate

Of the two in my top category, I'm much more suspicious of Legate. I currently think Cop and McCaber are more cobbler material, so I'd rather stick to what I think is real guilt. I wouldn't protest to a Steve lynch, I suppose, but I think Legate is a bigger threat (and would also give us more information than a Steve lynch would at this stage).

I may hang around. I may end up unconscious. I guess we'll see.

EDIT: x'd with two Shastas

satansaloser2005

12-26-2012, 08:46 PM

I wouldn't protest to a Steve lynch, I suppose....

Steve's approach to Legate (see my #125) is, well, just downright unsettling. Other than that, I have no real read on him, so that's where that's coming from.

Nerwen

12-26-2012, 08:47 PM

Lots of Legate voting going on. It's really almost unanimous, actually, which raises my hackles a bit.
Yes, my jewel, it seems to have swung from a G55-waggon to a Legate-wagon. And the thing is– well, it's true G55 did put up a good defence, but even if you believe her, it doesn't mean she's right.

EDIT:X'd with 2 Sallys.

Inziladun

12-26-2012, 08:52 PM

And the thing is– well, it's true G55 did put up a good defence, but even if you believe her, it doesn't mean she's right.

Well, G55 was likely going to be my vote toDay, and since I couldn't see her being a wolf after what she said (she's opened herself wide to the Seer in any case), I thought it was worth a try.

Shastanis Althreduin

12-26-2012, 09:00 PM

We have half an hour till DL, right? I'm still finishing my post.

Shastanis Althreduin

12-26-2012, 09:01 PM

Day 2

Cop at #117. I have no issues with the fact that she apparently wrote up a post overNight; as I recall, she's done that before. I have a slight issue with this -
A pity that we lost Boro. Given our odds, it was quite likely that we'd lose an innocent yesterDay, so we can at least be happy that we lost an ordo rather than a gifted. But it really sucks, because Boro looked innocent and was being useful. He was actively participating and even suggesting new ways for people to discuss things.

- not that she thinks it's a "pity we lost Boro, but that she thinks "Boro looked innocent". This sentence has a bit of subtle... I don't know, call it "distancing", call it "crocodile tears". Something. Almost like a reprimand. "How could you have lynched Boro, he was obviously innocent", et cetera.

I do feel she has a point about McCaber here -
Something that jumps out at me is that McCaber Tim has been very quiet for someone who decided to vote for someone based on a lack of posting and contributions. McCaber, why didn't you offer any analysis towards the end of the Day? You suggested “Maybe we should look for someone saying "I'm the Cobbler wolves please don't kill me" but you offered very little of substance at all, aside from that, and in fact most of your posts were about how you were going to vote for somebody quiet. I find it suspicious.
- I tend to agree with this, and I think I'll probably make McCaber someone I look at today.

McCaber at #118. Typically concise post, tags Sally and Eonwe together as possible packmates and raises a question about G55 -
Going just off voting records, G55 is looking rather suspicious throwing in a meaningless vote for someone which no chance of getting lynched, which is usually a good way for a wolfpack to not look united.
Was this ever responded to? I feel like this is a good point.

Eonwe at #120 stands out as being the most jumpy person thus far -
Shouldn't you also be considering Zil? He also had two votes by then.
In response to McCaber.
She could have potentially got Legate lynched if Zil and Shasta had been on board.
In response to the point about G55's vote.
Isn't it bad form to make such a comment?
In response to McCaber mentioning he only realized the game started three hours before deadline. So, he defends G55 and himself here rather quickly, considering, and does a bit of strawmanning on the person bringing up the points. Hmm. I may move Eonwe up my suspicion list, depending on how I feel about G55 after this post is through.

G55 at #122 - the infamous "nightkill" post. While I tend to be all for whatever analysis a player cares to make, I have to agree with Inzil that I don't see much point in speculating about the target of a nightkill that didn't happen. I believe Inzil said something about unhelpful helpfulness... Oh dear, I'm agreeing with Inzil again. :rolleyes:

Sally at #125 makes her first serious post of the game. She appears to suspect Legate, Inzil, Cop, and possibly Eonwe, if I'm reading her post correctly. I'd be interested in knowing where she's at on these four now.

Morsul at #128 -
So vte based on her participation looks odd to me safe Sally won't be lynched but not contributing to the innocent Boro lynch
- continuing a line of thought where he suspects McCaber (and Inzil, but only for his suspicion of Cop, apparently.) I don't really understand this - do you have a reason to believe McCaber would not want to lynch Sally?

Clarification here -
Voting you ver BORO also allowed McCab to not be part of the innocent's lynch putting him less in the sptlight.

Still, there were much better options for a "safe vote" considering Sally's precarious position in the lynch order yesterDay.

Basically, I considered whether what Nerwen said in that post could have been a potential Seer hint and decided it wasn't, but that it might be a wolf or cobbler trying to make themselves look that way. Because I'd decided it wasn't likely to be a genuine Seer hint, I didn't worry about saying so. See, the rest of what I was going on to say was that Nerwen's statement could have been "a wolf or Cobbler trying to look a little Seer-ish". The possibility of what she said being a Seer looking Seer-ish would have been implicit in that, even if I hadn't said I'd considered it (and decided it couldn't be).

I do find it a bit perturbing that anyone took that as actual speculation seeking out the Seer/a hint for wolves. I was aware that there's a taboo for obvious reasons on mentioning Seer-hints one thinks one's found, but didn't realise that it went as far as mentioning things that have been considered and basically discarded as a possibility (but which are still relevant to the discussion), to the point where people would rephrase that as "oh, I think [living player] might be giving seer hints" as you just have and which Nerwen did before (as "Hey, wolves, look what I found!"). I would find that sort of rephrasing suspicious of itself, but a few more people seemed to think the point was fair. Looks as if I've misjudged the level of paranoia for that element of the game.

A good rule of thumb is just to never mention Seer hints until absolutely necessary. Mostly because it's hard to say that something is not a Seer hint, considering the inventiveness of past Seers. ;)

Have a sugar-plum, my dear, and let me explain something. You may not think we of Fairyland know very much about footwear manufacture– but please remember the Shoemaker and the Elves.

Most amusing post of the game thus far, my heart. :Merisu:

Legate at #156 explains his vote for Boro and suspicion of Cop. I'm fine with the explanation for Boro, but his suspicion of Cop falls flat for reasons I think I've already mentioned (how Cop types up posts during Night no matter her role).

Cop at #157 - yes, I crossed with Inzil when I voted. Thinks about a Legate/Eonwe pack, finds possibility unlikely.

I'm going to cut this post off here so people at least get a chance to read it before DL. I'll finish it tomorrow if I'm alive.