28 or so reasons to read the HoME series {and UT}

[lindil]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
Posts: 448</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>

The History of Middle-earth series

1, 2 the Book of Lost Tales [ the earliest WWI versions of the Silmarillion]
3 - The Lays of Beleriand [ 20's and 50's versions of the songs of beren and Luthien, Turin and a few bits if Misc. also has commentary by CS Lewis.

4 - The Shaping of Middle-Earth - the Silm as it stood circa 'the Hobbit' era [ early 30's] also the last [ alas] complete Silmarillion

5 - The Lost Road - an abandoned time-travel story that was the seed of the numenorean legends. The Silmarillion as it stood when the LotR was begun in the late 30's. The elvish Etymologies [ a must have for linguists].

6-9 The history of the Lord of the Rings
[subseries] I ahve not looked into these much as my interest is focused on the Silmarillion so i will let others summarise these as they will. Suffice it to say very nearly 100% of JRRT's many changes were all for the better. The highlights are imo in the last volume 'Sauron Defeated [only available complete as a hard back] which has the original ending to LotR [ sam reading a letter from Aragorn to sam's little one's] and a major exposition on Aduniac.

10 - Morgoth's Ring - last major work on the post LotR Silm [ the events in Valinor] and Finrod's dialog w/ andreth, and Laws and customs among the Eldar. Also much speculation on Cosmology and origins of ORcs and such at the end.

11 - The War of the Jewels - last major work on the post LotR Silm [ the events in Beleriand ] plus the Wanderings of Hurin and Quendi and Eldar. Amajor historico-Linguistic work.

12 - Peoples of Middle-Earth - final writings, the history of the akallabeth and the appendices of the LotR [ often longer entries]. Shibboleth of Feanor [ mentioned below].Of Men and Dwarves [see below].


I am a big fan of these books [ most esp 10-12] so I thought I wouldopen a few of the windows into their wide world to those of us who have yet to wander therein.
W/ the publishing of the final Volumes of HoME the the first age is give as much detail as the Third and the motives and depth of plot are fully revealed . so despite the unending alternate versions, footnotes galore and a lesser quality of writing in the early volumes ...
here are 10 'reasons' {and I didn't even metion being able to work on a new silmarillion <img src=wink.gif ALT=";)"> }

11 - So you can follow the aragorn's anscestors thread!!!!<img src=smile.gif ALT=":)"> <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)"> <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)"> !!!!

10 - The final word on Glorfindel [peoples of ME]

9 - The names and [some ] locations of the seven houses of the dwarves [peoples]

8 - A wealth of lore re: the noldorin princes inc. how feanor killed his youngest son w/ out remorse. [peoples]

7-Quendi and Eldar - an amazing foray into Elvish linguistics,their awakening and let's us in on the existence of the Osanwe-Kenta [War of the Jewels]

6- the Big story of Turin and Hurin [ his post -Angband wanderings] and the power of the curse of Morgoth
[UT and WotJ]

5-Laws and Customs among the Eldar - one of several excellent peices in [Morgoth's Ring]

4- Myth's Transformed despite having the nature of a cosmological Pandora's Box herein lies the origin of Orcs, a beautiful essay Aman,motives in the Silmarillion and details on the nature's,powers and limitations of Morgoth and his Fall.

3-Everything in Unfinished Tales ! some [much actually] of JRRT's most luminous and mature writing

2-The long [primitive ] version of the fall of Gondolin

1- The dialouge of Finrod and Andreth - the deepest theologically and one of the most heartfelt of all of JRRT's writings. The depthof character of Finrod that was suspected from the Tale of Beren and Luthien and the finding of Men is fully revealed here.

Any others folks want to add ?



[b]Lindil is often found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowowns<u> Silmarillion canon , theories and discussion Forum </u> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000076>lindil</A> at: 3/23/01 3:37:13 am

[LIST][LIST]

[ October 15, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]

[Orald]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shadow of Malice
Posts: 652</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT}

All the language in The Lost Road, and a story that doesn't make it in anywhere else.

It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.</p>

[Inziladun]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 145</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT}

The only one I have is #4, The Shaping of Middle Earth. I really should try to find the other ones. I wonder if Amazon.com has them.

Those who will defend authority against rebellion must not themselves rebel. </p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000125>Inziladun</A> at: 3/9/01 1:14:13 am

[enep]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 434</TD><TD><img src=http://dodgywebsite.homestead.com/files/Skeleton_09.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT}

I now have BolT I + II, but haven't got to II yet. I'm working on the rest, and doubtless your 10 reasons have only convinced me to read them that little bit more, lindil <img src=wink.gif ALT=";)">

- enep</p>

[lindil]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
Posts: 449</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
amazon

Amazon does have them , though that is a ource of last resort for many as they are running many small booksellers out of business.

lindil

</p>

[Hannah 3]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
Posts: 3</TD><TD><img src=http--images.neopets.com-images-newfirefaerie.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: amazon

Sorry, but...
A reason not to read them:
Lost Tales 1 bored me so badly I didn't get pasyt the second page!!
I love Unfinished Tales, though. <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)"> Especially the Istarii chapter.

~*~Hannah~*~,
The caged bird sings with a fearful trill
Of things unknown, but longed for still
And his tune is heard on the distant hills
For the caged bird sings of freedom. ~Maya Angelou, 'Caged bird', 'Shaker, why don't you sing?'</p>

[Elenanna]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 21</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: amazon

i havent read lt1 either but im around half way thru lt2 i think that lt2 is quite good its sort of odd that sauron {mildly, in a very distant way} originated from a giant cat.

Elen sila lumenn omentielvo.</p>

[Sharkû]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hungry Ghoul
Posts: 755</TD><TD><img src=http://www.tolkiens-legacy.de/draugen.jpg WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: amazon

More poems and songs are a good reason to me.

</p>

[Hannah 3]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
Posts: 5</TD><TD><img src=http--images.neopets.com-images-newfirefaerie.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: amazon

I was very insulted, actually. My cat would have been angry, too.
You need more? I thought trying to learn all the L.R. ones would be good enough for anyone... <img src=wink.gif ALT=";)">

~*~Hannah~*~,
The caged bird sings with a fearful trill
Of things unknown, but longed for still
And his tune is heard on the distant hills
For the caged bird sings of freedom. ~Maya Angelou, 'Caged bird', 'Shaker, why don't you sing?'</p>

[lindil]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
Posts: 451</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
If it was good enough for ...

Well Hannah, JRRT did write the stuff so that it could maybe some day be read! And he was deradfully disappointed that the Silmarillion would not be included in an edition w/ the LotR .
Clealy HoME and UT [and the Silmarillion -for that matter] are not to the taste of all.
but for those to whom such tales are dear to the heart I will offer another 5 [I am in a bit of a hurry]

1]Aelfwines story in II about coming to the lonely Isle.
2] The greatly expanded language dictionaries /index's
3]The essay's on the Palantiri,Istari and Druedain
4] the original [?] epilog to the LotR
5] Dwarves and Men in Peoples of Middle-Earth

and here is 6] for good measure
6] just seeing the transfrmation of the Silm From Lost Tales through 7 [!] and sometimes more succsessive phases, each one gaining in beauty and strength [if not in detail and length].




Lindil is often found on posting on[i] the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowowns<u> Silmarillion canon , theories and discussion Forum </u> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>

[Zoe]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 262</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: If it was good enough for ...

There's language info in HoME? Which one?

I want! I want! <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)">

(Lindil- The mere mention of the words &quot;The greatly expanded language dictionaries /index's&quot; has made me decide that I ought to read at least some of HoME. Although, your other 15 arguments are also pretty good ones, too.)

</p>

[Elenanna]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 25</TD><TD><img src=http://community.webshots.com/photo/1204419/1213028 WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: If it was good enough for ...

same here <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)">

Elen sila lumenn omentielvo.</p>

[lindil]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
Posts: 456</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
The Lost Road and vol. 9

The Lost Road has the Etymologies [70 or so pages of an Elvish dictionary of just pre-LotR vintage , and the Lhammas.The last of the HoME volumes treating of the LotR hasthe notion club papers with a major section on Aduniac [by report - I have yet to read much of Volumes 6-9].
Hope that helps.
One idea that I hope to emulate is to go through the index's of LotR/Silm. and UT and create a wordlist/dictionary and then slowly supplementing it w/ HoME [working backwards from 12 &gt;5].

lindil

</p>

[Mithrandir]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
Posts: 4</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT}

This might sound like the dumbest question ever, but what is the HoME series?

</p>

[KayQy]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 168</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT}

The History of Middle Earth by Christopher Tolkien, basically taking all the unpublished notes his father left behind and turning them into something that we can follow. It includes the Book of Lost Tales 1 and 2, and 10 other books. I'll let someone who's read more than bits and pieces take it from there. <img src=ohwell.gif ALT=":\">

They cannot conquer forever!</p>

[Mithrandir]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
Posts: 5</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: 10 reasons to read the HoME series {and UT}

Wow, I never even knew that those books even existed. Thanks, KayQy! <img src=biggrin.gif ALT=":D">

</p>

[lindil]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
Posts: 492</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> I will try...

and put a brief resume of HoME and it's contents over lunch.

lindil

</p>

[Hannah 3]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 24</TD><TD><img src=http--images.neopets.com-images-newfirefaerie.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: If it was good enough for ...

Actually, I did really enjoy the Silmarilion. <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)">
My sister suggested that I might find Lost Tales 2 better than 1, even though they are intended to be one book she says it's a lot more interesting.
Lindil - I'm sure someone must have made that kind of dictionary, wouldn't they? I mean, I'm working on an elvish - english dictionary in school, though it's pretty feeble, having less than a hundred words. Elenna did better, she copied the index of the Silmarilion out <img src=wink.gif ALT=";)"> but I'm sure I'm not the only one who's tried. I have no hopes of ever including all the elvish in the Silmarilion, L.R., letters, HoMe and all the rest, but I'm sure there are some people out there far less lazy and more ambitious.

edit: dicovered!

http://shire.ipmce.ru/personal/tolkien/dictnry.htmshire.ipmce.ru/personal/t...ictnry.htm</a>

~*Hannah*~ If one puts an idea forward to a true englishman - always a rash thing to do - he never dreams of considering whether the idea is right or wrong. The only thing he considers of any importance is whether one believes in it oneself. ~ Oscar Wilde</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000108>Hannah 3</A>&nbsp; <IMG SRC=http://www.clipartcastle.com/anim3/shining_star.gif BORDER=0 WIDTH=10 HEIGHT=10> at: 3/17/01 10:30:12 am

[lindil]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
Posts: 495</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
it has been done

I think it is somewhat of a right of passage for anyone who dcides they want to learn Sindarin or Quenya to create a dictionary on whatever scale
there are certainly several examples of such on the net, and I have the humble beginings of one at my board [letters' a' nd 'b ' from Lost road, and the Silm. I hope to incorporate UT and LotR words this eve and then add 1 lettera week and then start allover again w/ the LotR words i come across, Letters and volumes 10-12 of HoME and there are also a few odds and endsof Vocabulary of JRRT being published by the Vinyar Tengwar journal . so yes there is much being done,has been done and could be done!
As daunting as something like a dict. might seem if you kept a set of index cards w/ you when you read and just noted words as they came up and then look up their meanings at the end, you would have a fair sized dicyt. in a year or so eh?



Lindil is often found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowowns and working on his own board Osanwe-Kenta[/i]- 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>

[Hannah 3]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Animated Skeleton
Posts: 26</TD><TD><img src=http--images.neopets.com-images-newfirefaerie.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: it has been done

My intension when I began mine was to learn it, not just have a list, which is one of the reasons it's so small - I actually know every word on it and could say it on the spot. <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)"> Of course, some people would make the dictionary first, then learn it, but I don't work that way...

~*Hannah*~ If one puts an idea forward to a true englishman - always a rash thing to do - he never dreams of considering whether the idea is right or wrong. The only thing he considers of any importance is whether one believes in it oneself. ~ Oscar Wilde</p>

[Orald]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shadow of Malice
Posts: 697</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: it has been done

I think it is mentioned in another thread, but Ardalambion is a great source for any language dealing with ME.

Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into Eä, and evil be good to have been.</p>

[lindil]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
Posts: 496</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
lamba

My suggestion for whatever it was worth was to both at the same time.


lindil

</p>

[lindil]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
Posts: 515</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: 11 !!!! reasons to read the HoME series {and UT}

#11 - So you can follow the aragorn's anscestors thread!!!! <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)"> <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)"> !!!





Lindil is oft found on posting on the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowdowns and working on a new Elven/Christian discussion board<a href="http://beta.ezboard.com/bosanwekenta" >Osanwe-Kenta</a> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>

[KayQy]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 181</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Another good excuse (I mean reason) to read HoME

So you can write a linguistics paper on Qwenya and Sindarin and all the other languages Tolkien invented!

</p>

[cian]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
Posts: 6</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Another good excuse (I mean reason) to read HoME

The Lay of Leithian! <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)">


</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000317>cian</A> at: 3/23/01 10:41:59 pm

[Elenanna]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 103</TD><TD><img src=http://www.chickpages.com/fanland/mischiefsdollys/images/unidoll44.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Another good excuse (I mean reason) to read HoME

the lay of leithan? Its got that?!! i must get my hands on it where can i get it, do you think a local library would have it?

Visit me at <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/blorien16140>Lorien</a> friend of <a href=http://pub16.ezboard.com/bamongwareth>Amon Gwareth</a> and <a href=http://pub2.ezboard.com/brivendel>Rivendel</a> find my corpse at <a href=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi>The Barrowdowns</a> </p>

[lindil]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
Posts: 516</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Another good excuse (I mean reason) to read HoME

The Lay of Leithian [ such as it is] can be found in the 'Lays of Beleriand' HoME #3 .
It is easily available in paperback and still seen here in SF in trade paperback. Itiis the hardest of all HoME volumes to locate in HB.
As to your library , my palantir is only showing burning hands at the moment.



<img src=smile.gif ALT=":)">

Lindil is oft found on posting on[i] the Silmarillion Project at the Barrowdowns and working on a new Elven/Christian discussion board<a href="http://beta.ezboard.com/bosanwekenta" >Osanwe-Kenta</a> 'The dwindling Men of the West would often sit up late into the night, and awaken early before dawn- exchanging lore and wisdom such as they possessed , so that they should not fall back into the mean and low estate of those , who never knew or more sadly still, had indeed rebelled against the Light.' </p>

[lindil]

5 more reasons.

1 -A wee bit longer Tale of aragorn and Arwen in XII [peoples]
2 - The origin[s] of the Narn i hin Hurin in XII

3- Notes on motives in the Silmarillion [X]
vey fascinating writing on how Sauron [ in the 2nd age] was more powerful than Morgoth [at the end of the First Age].
4 - Tal-Elmar - an interesting begining of a tale of the coasts of 'Gondor' in the 2nd age. Shows how men saw the Numenoreans.

5- Shibboleth of Feanor, Elvish history and linguistics in a potent mix.

It seems as I re-read alot of folks posts above that many were reading thr Books of Lost Tales first.
That may work well for some, but keep in mind they are exceedingly primitive in compositional style compared to [ if very fleshed out]the later writings.

Many foks [ myself included] steer folks towards the later volumes first 10-12 which document the Silm in it's final phases [10 and 11] and the lotR appendices and a variety od fascinating late writings [12].

Unfinshed tales is reall a collection of materials that would have all eneded up in 10-12, had it not been put out first, before CRT decided to do a complete history of Middle-Earth. So fortunately [to my mind] he polished up some of UT for us.

[Aiwendil]

how feanor killed his youngest son w/ out remorse.

I know you said this over a year ago, Lindil, but I can't help but to nitpick and raise meaningless points of contention. It's my nature. From "Shibboleth":

'That ship I destroyed first,' said Feanor (hiding his own dismay)

I think he was in fact remorseful about this. It is interesting in that it is the only time (that I can recall) that Feanor shows any doubt concerning one of his actions, or feels any guilt.

I feel obliged now to contribute something to the actual topic of this thread. I can say only this: you have not lived until you have read the Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, and the History of Middle-earth. Drop everything and read them now, from beginning to end. If you think I'm exaggerating, you have not read them. I envy you; you still have the best literary experience of your life ahead of you.

[lindil]

Thanks for the correction !
I missed the catch in Feanor's reaction.

And very strong words of praise and recommendation.

Although I hesitate on the begining to end aspect [ at least for the first time] as alot of folks seem to get bagged down in LostTales.

But Aiwendil is right, it is [ or I should say caontains] "the best literary experience of your life."

[davem]

Like Lindil, I can't go along with reading HOME cover to cover. I really think that would be too much for most people. Can I expand this - Do you think you have to read the 12 books in the published order? I read vols 6-9 & 12 first as they deal with the composition of LotR, then read lost Tales & the Lays, then Lost Road in vol 5, Notion Club papers in vol 9, & then the last 150 pps of vol 10, with the Athrabeth, etc, & the rest, 4, 5, 10 & 11 in order. Has anyone else read them in the 'wrong' order or am I unique?

[lindil]

There def is much to be said for the idea of following the thread of the Legendarium from begining to end, although i have not done it.

I give a recommendation for the order of exploring HoME [ which I have seen other HoMErs corraborate] in the opening post [ I think] as well as new synopsis of HoME.

[Aiwendil]

Personally, I think it is definitely best to read the series in order the first time through. One of the chief attractions, I think, is to see how the Legendarium evolved over time. You definitely miss something in this regard if you start in the middle. I realize of course that many people don't want to do this, which is fine; nonetheless, I think they're missing something. Then again, I'm one of those people that really enjoys the extensive commentary and copious notes; in fact, I rather wish Christopher Tolkien had provided more extensive commentary in some places. So I suppose I'm somewhat atypical.

[GildorInglorion]

I can't summon the strenght to read HOME, it's just to hard to find interesting information between all comments.

UT is better, at least some chapters. The problem is, I don't know what chapters in HOME that contain much new interesting information. The first post gave me some good hints, can anyone be more specific?

MuHaha, I have a bookstore nearby with all twelve HOME books. Money is the only problem...

[lindil]

I will try and go back and flesh out the outline a bit [to night I hope], or you could be wise and take Aiwendil's word for it that HoME in general is the ultimate JRRT read.

One thing you can def do is skip the footnotes, intro's and commentary till you really care about a given section!

If you want the full view of the Legendarium from beging to end then read them chronologically. If you want what many consider the [majority at least]of the gold nuggets then much more material as good as UT lies within the last 3 volumes.

[ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]

[ October 18, 2002: Message edited by: lindil ]

[lindil]

Well it turns out I shall not be able to elaborate on the HoME contents after all, so may I recommend simply skip the commentary unless you read something you wish to have commentary upon?

Perhaps someone else can post something on the lines of what GildorInglorion wishes.

Temporal constraints require that I keep all of my internet energies and time confined to the Silm project for the forseeable future.

[Aiwendil]

One thing you can def do is skip the footnotes, intro's and commentary till you really care about a given section!

Blasphemy! The footnotes are the most important part!

Well, not really. But when I say that I read the History of Middle-earth from beginning to end (and recommend it to others), I mean all of it. Every word, in order, from the Introduction to Unfinished Tales to the little paragraph of commentary at the end of 'Tal-Elmar'. Yes, I'm a bit obsessed and no, I don't expect many others to read it that way. Nonetheless I recommend it.

[lindil]

Re: blasphemy!

well, I am not of course saqying that they are not worth reading, it is suggested onlt to expedite the series for those who easily get bogged down.

In UT especially the footntes and commentary often contian the most obscure and fascinating bits.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

The footnotes to 'Of Dwarves and men' are brilliant as well.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

“8 - A wealth of lore re: the Noldorin princes inc. how Feanor killed his youngest son w/ out remorse. [peoples]”-originally posted by lindil.

Your making Feanor sound out to be some kind of remorseless monster! I mean come one, I know he was bad, but not that bad. He accidentally killed his son, as he didn’t know that he was sleeping on the ships beforehand.
And he did feel some remorse;

“ That ship I destroyed first” he said, hiding his own dismay.

Thanks for re-opening the topic, BTW!

Here are some of my reasons:

1. Feminism in M-E (Aldarion and Erendis.) I’m not a woman, but I do sympathise, in some ways with non-radical feminism. And it made me laugh.
2. More stories on Finwe and his house! (Home 4,5, 10, 11,12, esp. the Shibboleth of Feanor)
3. ‘Tal-Elmar’ -shows what life may have been like for the Haradrim.
4. ‘Bilbo was getting married’ Originally Bilbo was leaving the Shire to get married! Thank god for Tolkien changing that!
5. HoME 4 shows us early geographical conceptions of Arda.
6. Great psychological discussion in ‘Myths Transformed and Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth’
7. More stories on the first age and al the ages of the Valar.

[Hilde Bracegirdle]

I am currently just starting the third age in Unfinished Tales. I love the book, but dearly wish the footnotes were at the "foot" of the page instead at the end of the chapter. I find myself with 3 bookmarks all falling out as I read! One for the map, one for the chapter & one for the footnotes! smilies/wink.gif

[lindil]

lindil acknowledges error on Feanor being 'remorseless'.

Sorry for the overstatement.

I think the thing I got hung up on was his wife Nerdanel asking for the youngest of the sons, Umbarto, to stay, and Feanor denying her, and also Feanor, saying that he guessed that Umbarto wished to take a ship back to Valinor.

It will create a subtle but distinct shift in the Silmarillion to not have the twins Amrod and Amras and to not have the 'seven' sons of feanor, but the Six.

It will, whenever they are mentioned collectively [which is suprisingly frequent] have the effect of silently underscoring Feanor's first act in M-E.

As with virtually every elaboration in HoME over the published Silmarillion, there is serious refinement and improvement.

The Shibboleth is truly a gold mine of lore regarding the Noldorin heirs of Finwe.

I just read the footnote 61 re: Maedhros; that he wore a copper band as did his maternal grandfather.

The revised 'of the Princes of the Eldalie' will read very differently and with far more 3 dimensionality, due to the Shibboleth.

By the way Aiwendil, would it not make more sense to place UT between HoME 11 and 12 than at the begining?

Although the chronology [and build up/cross-referencing] of the footnote relationships would breakdown, you would have something far closer to the chronological order; that is supposing one would not just insert the Tuor and Narn sections into HoME 11.

Anyway, I promise to give it a go this summer, God willing.

I suppose you read every etymological entry also!!

[ February 09, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

[Cúdae]

I read the Peoples of Middle-Earth in French, and let me tell you, if you want something that makes Feanor look more than ever like he should have been in a straight jacket and locked up in a padded room, read teh Shibboleth in French. The translator evdiently translated several things incorrectly (one of which shows Feanor in the most uncomplimentary light immaginable- an insane Noldorin ravager of women) and made his own small additions to the footnotes. I haven't seen it anywhere in over a year though, so I believe it went out of print.

In any case, here's some good reasons to read it English: smilies/smile.gif
1. More information than you ever wanted to know about the First Age.
2. Awesome portrayal of women in the "Of Lembas" essay (Peoples of Middle-Earth aka volume 12)
3. Great information for an essay on how Tolkien's writings have changed the genre of fantasy in everything from surrealism to Arthurian legends. (I actually wrote this and got an A smilies/smile.gif )
4. Background information that explains some character quirks. (This is mostly for the Silm. and UT but the Histories are good too.)
5. Great information for an essay on how Elves evolved from impish little things in the hills to the majestic beings of some modern fantasy writers. (Wrote this one too, didn't come out quite so well, but was interesting nonetheless.)
and finally
6. You'll realize how uncomplicated your life really is. smilies/smile.gif

[[Heh, I haven't been to the 'Downs in awhile and I'm thrilled at engaging in intelligent conversation again!]]

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Feanor a ravager of women? The translator must have been smoking something. Can you elaborate, please? I hate it when people over-exagerate on how evil Feanor was. He was a pretty tragic character, and the death of his mom must have hit him really hard, and the same goes for the death of his dad, who he loved more then anything, Silmaril's included.

[Aiwendil]

Inderjit Sanghera:
1. Feminism in M-E (Aldarion and Erendis.) I’m not a woman, but I do sympathise, in some ways with non-radical feminism. And it made me laugh.
2. More stories on Finwe and his house! (Home 4,5, 10, 11,12, esp. the Shibboleth of Feanor)
3. ‘Tal-Elmar’ -shows what life may have been like for the Haradrim.
4. ‘Bilbo was getting married’ Originally Bilbo was leaving the Shire to get married! Thank god for Tolkien changing that!
5. HoME 4 shows us early geographical conceptions of Arda.
6. Great psychological discussion in ‘Myths Transformed and Athrabeth Finrod ah Andreth’
7. More stories on the first age and al the ages of the Valar.


Excellent points. I particularly agree with you about Tal-Elmar; it offers a very unusual perspective on Middle-earth and the Numenoreans. And there's nothing wrong with sympathizing with feminism - I'm not a woman either, but I would call myself a feminist.

Lindil:
It will create a subtle but distinct shift in the Silmarillion to not have the twins Amrod and Amras and to not have the 'seven' sons of feanor, but the Six.

Very much agreed. I look forward to it.


By the way Aiwendil, would it not make more sense to place UT between HoME 11 and 12 than at the begining?


Hmmm. Perhaps. Of course, there would also be problems with that. For example, it would result in reading 'The Wanderings of Hurin' prior to the 'Narn i Chin Hurin', which might be kind of strange. Perhaps it would go better between 10 and 11. Then again, assuming one has already read the published Silmarillion, he or she would already have read things out of chronological order. That leads to an interesting thought: suppose a new reader started with HoMe before the Silmarillion, and read everything in the order in which it was written. It boggles the mind.

I suppose you read every etymological entry also!!

Yes, but then I also subscribe to Elfling.

Cudae:
In any case, here's some good reasons to read it English:
1. More information than you ever wanted to know about the First Age.
2. Awesome portrayal of women in the "Of Lembas" essay (Peoples of Middle-Earth aka volume 12)
3. Great information for an essay on how Tolkien's writings have changed the genre of fantasy in everything from surrealism to Arthurian legends. (I actually wrote this and got an A)
4. Background information that explains some character quirks. (This is mostly for the Silm. and UT but the Histories are good too.)
5. Great information for an essay on how Elves evolved from impish little things in the hills to the majestic beings of some modern fantasy writers. (Wrote this one too, didn't come out quite so well, but was interesting nonetheless.)
and finally
6. You'll realize how uncomplicated your life really is.

Agreed on all points. While we're on the subject of essays, HoMe helped me with one on the synchronicity of 'pagan' and Catholic religion in Tolkien's works.

[Cúdae]

Inderjit Sanghera (I hope I spelled your name correctly)- I would copy over the exact lines in French that over-exagerrate poor Feanor's ...erm... slight over possessiveness, but due to the fact that for any French speakers out there it would be read as something rude, disgusting, and unfit for the 'Downs, I won't. Also, my books are elsewhere right now- namely, my locker. Heh.

Aiwendil- Absolutely agreed! Actually, that's the subject of my next English essay. Amazing how Tolkien can help out with such things. smilies/smile.gif

Here's a reason to read the Histories (in English, hehe) if you are a fanfic writer:
There is an immeasurable wealth of untouched loose ends, touched up tied ends, ideas, information, and Tolkien's gift to the fanfiction world: plot bunnies (plot ideas and things to flesh out a plot).

[amyrlis]

I'm glad I came across this thread, and several others regarding the HoME series. This is my first attempt at reading any Tolkien beyond UT and I need a little inspiration to keep me going. I am currently a little more than half way through BoLT1, it's a bit tough to get through, what with the footnotes and all (which I'm not skipping). I'm a big fan of reading series in 'order', so I can't skip around and must get through this before moving on to BoLT2, then the rest of the HoME series. Knowing that there is some amazing writing about Finrod (one of my favorite characters) in later volumes will help light a fire under me.

At any rate, it is fascinating reading. I am especially enthralled by the extra attention and detail given to the characters of the Valar. The reader is really given much more insight into their relationships, motives and mind-set. In contrast to the Sil, it's as if the Valar are the 'main' characters and the elves are secondary.

It is interesting how true to their original disposition many of the Valar remain in later writings, and to see which themes were abandoned. For instance, the two Warrior Vali, Measse & Makar, do they appear anywhere else in the series?

I can't help but be blown away (for lack of a better term) by the amount of detail poured into each of the Tales, for example, The Tale of the Sun and the Moon. Just imagining how long it must have taken to write such a tale as that, and then to realize that it is a mere 21 pages in the thousands and thousands of pages of Tolkien's works. I am, and forever will be, in humble awe.

[Maerbenn]

For instance, the two Warrior Vali, Measse & Makar, do they appear anywhere else in the series? Meássë also appears in volume III on page 127. Makar also appears in volume IV on pages 7-8.

The Index volume is handy. smilies/smile.gif

[Gorwingel]

I don't need any "reasons" to read the HoME and UT, I just need the time. But with the rate I am going at right now, it may have to wait until the summer.

[Meoshi]

One more reason:

HoME 4, Shaping of Middle-Earth, answers loads of questions about what is outside of ME(East, North, South). I found many answers to my questions there. (See 'Middle Earth Borders' discussion)

[ March 12, 2003: Message edited by: Meoshi ]

[Silmarien]

You laughed when you read Aldarion and Erendis! I would of cried if I was the crying type it was so sad. smilies/frown.gif smilies/frown.gif smilies/frown.gif
A great tradgedy I thought.

Oh there's two pages I didn't realise.

I've only read the UT and had a look at SoME and LT 1 & 2 ( I borrowed them from my local library) But I would love too read the rest. I wasn't sure if they'd all come out 'cos the ones I read said CT was still working on them.

[ March 12, 2003: Message edited by: Silmarien ]

[Goldberry]

I am very confused. smilies/frown.gif Could somebody explain to me what the difference is between HoME and History of Lord of the Rings? Why is HoLotR a different series if it has three of the same books as HoME, or are the books different?

[Aiwendil]

The History of the Lord of the Rings is a subseries within the History of Middle-earth. Volumes 6-8 and the first part of 9 of HoMe are the History of the Lord of the Rings. There is also a volume available called, I believe, "The End of the Third Age". This is identical to the first part of volume 9 of HoMe (that is, it's only the LotR related material, with no Notion Club or Drowning of Anadune).

[Goldberry]

Thank you, Aiwendil. So History of Lord of the Rings is identical to volumes 6-8 and the first part of 9 of HoME? When I looked at Volume 1 of the History of Lord of the Rings, which is volume 6 of the HoME, it looked like a sort of early stage of FotR, up to Balin's tomb in Moria . Is that right?

[lindil]

Exactly.

If you are looking to acquire all of HoME you will need to get at least IX (Sauron Defeated) in HB. VI-VII HB's/pb'sare identical to each other.

[lindil]

this thread (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=002243) has a rather extensive guide for aid in pondering which books to read in which order, focusing especially on HoM-E