Manning the Rammas Echor

[The Mouth of Sauron]

Tolkien stated that the Rammas Echor was "ten leagues or more" in length.

How many men would Gondor have had to devote to garrisoning an out-wall that length?

[Morthoron]

Tolkien stated that the Rammas Echor was "ten leagues or more" in length.

How many men would Gondor have had to devote to garrisoning an out-wall that length?

This is one of those math story problems I hated in school; hence, I became an English major.

But as an English major once force-fed a wide range of world literature (some of which I even enjoyed), I believe the answer is obvious...

42.

P.S. Considering a "league" is 3 statute miles (thus Rammas Echor was approximately 30 miles long), the correct answer would be that Gondor, even at the height of its power, could not man the whole wall; therefore small forts or bastions judiciously-spaced were the more likely means of defense.

[Inziladun]

Deja vu (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=15419&highlight=Rammas).

The Rammas may have been more of a morale booster to the Minas Tirith denizens than a serious defense. As Morth said, trying to keep such a barrier fully manned would have required more soldiery than Minas Tirith could muster, and if it was tried anyway, once invaders overcame the wall there would have been little between them and the City.

[Morthoron]

Deja vu (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=15419&highlight=Rammas).

The Rammas may have been more of a morale booster to the Minas Tirith denizens than a serious defense. As Morth said, trying to keep such a barrier fully manned would have required more soldiery than Minas Tirith could muster, and if it was tried anyway, once invaders overcame the wall there would have been little between them and the City.

The wall was meant to impede invaders, not stop them. A series of redoubts (like the Causeway Forts along the road to Osgiliath), could be defended for a time, but it was simply a delaying tactic. As a historical example, Hadrian's Wall in Northern England was never fully defended, nor was it meant to be. But there were milecastles supported by troops.

[Inziladun]

The wall was meant to impede invaders, not stop them. A series of redoubts (like the Causeway Forts along the road to Osgiliath), could be defended for a time, but it was simply a delaying tactic. As a historical example, Hadrian's Wall in Northern England was never fully defended, nor was it meant to be. But there were milecastles supported by troops.

I agree on the impediment idea, but I still think the Wall would have had some psychological benefit after Ithilien fell, giving some sense of security to those in Minas Tirith.

[tom the eldest]

Im imagining that the wall is just a wall,no soldier can get up the wall.instead mYbe the are several entrances,and that entrances is guarded by a fort(causeway fort could be an example).and so that could save up men,bacause the only thing that need to be manned is the fort itself.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I see a historic parallel in the Danish response to the defeat in the Second War of Schleswig. The old defences against a southern foe had mostly been located in lands, now annexed by Prussia. The government responded, by giving up the old defence plans, since they judged Denmark to be so weak that all resources had to be focused on a defence of the capital.

This led to the construction of the Ring Fortification System (The Vestvold) around Copenhagen (later expanded by the construction of additional coastal fortresses).

The fortress was massive, but also largely outdated by the time of its construction, and even if it hadn't been, it would still have been impractical/impossible to defend. It would have taken pretty much the entire Danish army to defend it against a well supplied enemy. If the attack came sudden and quickly enough, there would be too few men to man it.

To me the situation in Gondor was similar: They were weakened and faced with a superior and aggressive neighbour. The survival of the entire state, was judged to stand an fall with the Capital, therfore a massive amount of resources was devoted to fortify it.

Probably not the best military decisions ever made, but you can see why the projects were undertaken.

So yeah, the Rammas Echor seems like a knee-jerk reaction from a state fighting for its life, but I find it unlikely that it could have been defended efficiently.