WW CV: They Should Make a Movie About This! (Game Thread) [Archive]

Inziladun

05-30-2014, 08:00 PM

'Greetings to you all!", he said. I am Professor Inzil, and I am the one who invited you here.
The group looked around to see various computer consoles, tables littered with electronic components, and two telephone booth-sized chrome-plated cylinders at opposite sides of the room, each with its own computer console. A label on one read "RADAGAST", and the second, "WINGÉD BALROG". A shelf on the wall held many vials filled with liquids of varying colors and viscosities. One, set apart, had a large red "X" on its label, though what that label said could not be made out.
'Well, let me give you the score', he began. 'First, I have asked you here to assist me with something. I am planning to use the dish up there,' he pointed, 'to end any possible success or indeed, any memory of the horrible movies of J.R.R. Tolkien's works that have been foisted on us all by greedy, blackhearted persons.' He paused for a moment, studying the faces before him.
'The plan is to fire a beam into space that will then utilize the satellites circling the globe to transmit the beam back to the surface. The beam should have the effects of permanently removing from memory that fact that any Tolkien-related movies exist, and will simultaneously stimulate the cerebral cortex of the brain to cause the subject to utterly abhor the very idea of any movies connected with Tolkien in the future.'
Confusion, disbelief, and amusement seemed to be at war in the group.
'Wait a second,' said Shasta. 'Wasn't there something about a "great reward"'?
'Ah, well, I don't exactly have a lot of money,' replied the Professor. 'But the service you'll be rendering to mankind is beyond price!'
'How'd you get the money to do all this'?, asked Kitanna.
'Various means,' he said. 'For one thing, I've been helping a large and well-known company test safer food additives. That's some of them on the shelf over there. It was actually a failure of one of those that led to the idea behind this project.'
'What about those two things?' asked Lommy, pointing at the metal cylinders.
'Other projects', the Professor said. 'BALROG is a prototype teleporter, but there have been some snags with it. And I get sidetracked...ADHD is a terrible thing. Anyway, this process should take a few days. I will tell you that we are totally isolated here. There is no cell phone service, nor any communication with the outside. The helicopter on which you arrived will return at a set time to bring supplies. There are plenty of sleeping bags for you to bed down with, and more than enough food to see us through.'
Suddenly, a loud "BAAAA" was heard from behind a windowed door at the side.
'What's that?', cried Sally.
'Oh, goats!' replied the professor. I like goat's milk. And there are some chickens out there too. Eggs are nature's most complete source of protein!'
'So,' he ended. 'There it is. Get yourselves settled, and we'll look to starting tomorrow'.

As the group slowly wandered away, they failed to see one of their number casually pocket the vial with the red "X" from its place on the shelf.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Three members of the group walked together, unseen by the others.
'I think this is insane,' one groused. 'I like the movies!'
'Yeah!' said another. 'Viggo Mortensen was awesome! And the CGI Smaug in The Hobbit is just sick!'
'Well,' said the third, 'we don't have to participate. In fact, we could try to derail this!"
'Of course we could!' muttered the first. 'All we need to do is get rid of Professor Nutso, then the rest will be no problem.'
As the three walked, their minds were already pondering the issue.

IT IS NOW NIGHT 1.

Dreamer may dream, Baddies may PM.

The "Living"
Nerwen
Sally
Coppermirror
Loslote
Kitanna
Lommy
Legate
Nogrod
Shasta
Greenie
Kath
Boro

Inziladun

05-31-2014, 08:00 PM

Professor Inzil was up late. Dogged by a mixture of anticipation and anxiety, sleep was out of the question. He was looking through his notes, scouring them for signs of any unforeseen problems. As was his habit, he walked aimlessly about as he read. Absorbed, he failed to notice the soft footsteps behind him. Before he could shout, rough hands shoved him into the opening in the BALROG.
'Now Professor,' said a soft voice. 'You've been working too hard. Take a vacation.' 'Don't worry, said another voice. You're going to the best place we can think of.' 'Actually, it's the worst,' chuckled a third, who typed something on BALROG's keypad, then hurriedly pressed a red button marked "send".
With a crackling noise and a shower of sparks from the console, a yellow light engulfed the cylinder. The Professor's notebook remained on the floor outside, dropped and, for the moment, forgotten.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In the morning, the BALROG was discovered, partly burned and smoking. Looking into it, the concerned group saw a white lab coat, also partially burned. Of its owner there was no sign. The attached console was sputtering, but a display intermittently blinked the word "Cleveland".
'Wow,' said Legate. 'This was the teleporter, right?'
'Yep,' said Coppermirror. 'But didn't he say there had been some problems with it? He surely wouldn't have done this on his own.'
Just then Kath spied the notebook on the floor. 'Hm,' she said. She looked through it for a minute. 'It looks like there are sections where there are notes on the various things he was working on. Under Balrog, one page has a "3" that kind of scrawls down the page.' She showed it to the others.
'What's that mean?' asked Nogrod. 'Was he trying to say three people were involved, or what?'
'And what's the deal with this machine anyway?' said Greenie. 'Is he dead or is he in Cleveland?'
'What's the difference?' said Boro. Mumbled agreement came from everyone. Now they must decide what to do to confront the menace in their midst.

IT IS NOW DAY 1

The "Living"
Nerwen
Sally
Coppermirror
Loslote
Kitanna
Lommy
Legate
Nogrod
Shasta
Greenie
Kath
Boro

The "Dead"
Professor Inzil

Coppermirror

05-31-2014, 08:23 PM

If he's alive, I wonder which Cleveland Professor Inzil's gone to? Looking at it on Wikipedia, there are a whole bunch of places with that name (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleveland_%28disambiguation%29). Come to think of it, I'm not entirely sure where we are right now either, other than that it has mountains. I must have slept through that part of the flight.

My goodness, I haven't played this game since September last year. :eek: I do regret having to drop out from the Spambot Apocalypse game before it started.

Boromir88

05-31-2014, 08:52 PM

If he's actually in Cleveland he's as good as dead anyway. Since, I hail from the area I'm completely justified in poking fun at the smelly armpit of a city. If anyone else tries to disparage the place they'll be thrown into the Cuyahoga River (at least it's a little cleaner now, which means it's not as easy to catch on fire).

satansaloser2005

05-31-2014, 09:01 PM

Cleveland? Goodness gracious. We may never find our poor professor.

Then again, at least it's not Springfield. Which Springfield, you ask? Exactly.

Loslote

05-31-2014, 09:21 PM

I'm not entirely certain what I should be doing in this situation. To be honest, I never expected to make it this far - I consider having survived Night One to be a triumph, and I would like to thank everyone who ever voted for me for this success. Thank you, thank you!

Of course, my gracious speech would probably have had a greater impact were it not delivered in a sealed-off mountain with no hope of escape, but you work with what you've got, I suppose.

Speaking of, I've got a great idea for solving this little mystery in no time. Who here actually liked the movies? Please raise your hand - I'm sorry to say, I'm afraid you might be one of the murderers! A nasty shock, I'm sure, but better to face these things head-on than live in denial, don't you know. You're welcome, everyone, case closed!

Nerwen

06-01-2014, 12:22 AM

Such a terrible, terrible thing to happen to the poor Professor- regardless of whether his fate was death or one of the world's large assortment of Clevelands.

Now, we all know what moviephiles are like. We've seen them camped outside the box office for hours... days... before "their" film premieres, just so they can be the first to see it. Could a moviephile resist jumping in to post on this thread the moment it opens? Basic moviephile psychology says "no".

Therefore I say we should be paying *very* close attention to Coppermirror, Boro and Sally.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-01-2014, 02:13 AM

Well, well, well. I hope Professor Inzil will be all right, I mean, at least the BALROG cannot transfer people through alternate universes. Imagine if he ended up in movie version of Middle-Earth...

Anyway, for the time being then we have to take matters into our own hands. Goat milk, anyone?

As for otherwise... I guess I do not need to prove my hatred for the movies... I could quote one of my speeches from times ago, but then I think it would make my rambling here even longer than usual, and I am afraid in the presence of such advanced scientific devices, it might accidentally trigger some unprecedented effect. Such as making forum posts longer than one forum page.

Coppermirror

06-01-2014, 03:02 AM

If anyone else tries to disparage the place they'll be thrown into the Cuyahoga River (at least it's a little cleaner now, which means it's not as easy to catch on fire).

...Is that a joke, or is the Cuyahoga River really known for catching on fire?

Then again, at least it's not Springfield. Which Springfield, you ask? Exactly.

I don't know, at least there doesn't seem to be a volcano or a tall mountain named after Springfield the way there is with Cleveland. In any case, it doesn't look as if we can get out of here to look for him.

Speaking of, I've got a great idea for solving this little mystery in no time. Who here actually liked the movies?

Uh, well... (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=687843&postcount=39) But it gave me a really nasty ache in the hip from having to sit still that long.

regardless of whether his fate was death or one of the world's large assortment of Clevelands.

Maybe it was all the world's Clevelands at once. I'm sure the Professor will have quite a tale to tell if and when he gets back here.

and I am afraid in the presence of such advanced scientific devices, it might accidentally trigger some unprecedented effect. Such as making forum posts longer than one forum page.

Well, we do need to be ever-vigilant, lest we incur the wrath of the vile Serverman, Lord of the Code, once more. But a concise summary would probably be safe.

I'm going off to bed now; see you all in the morning.

Nerwen

06-01-2014, 03:40 AM

...Is that a joke, or is the Cuyahoga River really known for catching on fire?

Yes ("http://clevelandhistorical.org/items/show/63#.U4sWOxYXrZZ”)

Nerwen

06-01-2014, 03:43 AM

Uh, well... (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=687843&postcount=39) But it gave me a really nasty ache in the hip from having to sit still that long.
Ah! What did I say? A confession!:smokin:

Thinlómien

06-01-2014, 04:55 AM

Okay, first things first.

I AM PLAYING WEREWOLF AIEEEEE OUAGHAKDDDO GICT XGNYCCBNX IT'S BEEN TOO LONG KPOHOGSUIYDTYRSYDJDYJXKNCHCMNGCZY CJGHC JBJKVB<DBNA.

:D

Okay, now that I got it off my chest, I'm off to business. What business, you may ask, as there's been nothing but banter and Nerwen jokingly reviving the tradition of suspecting those who post first.

So let me make a couple of predictions about how the Day1 will proceed after this utterly typical beginning:

Nerwen will miss the vote.
Kath will miss the entire Day.
Legate will get into posting novel-length stuff by the deadline.
Loslote (or Kitanna) will be lynched.
Nogrod will be uncharacteristically quiet (okay, you can't really credit me with being a psychic if I get this right, I happen to know he has a busy day in RL).
Speaking of psychics, Shasta will use half of his posts for praising Nerwen (and vice versa, but he always seems to be the one to start).

Any additions to my little list? :p

Oh, and better say it earlier than later: the deadline is 5am Finnish time, so you're probably not going to see much of me, Legate or Greenie around the DL time (not speaking for Nogrod because that man is crazy).

Boromir88

06-01-2014, 05:13 AM

Boromir88

06-01-2014, 05:18 AM

Nerwen's link on the Cuyahoga is brokey. But no joke Copper...it's been on fire, multiple times (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuyahoga_River):

Thinlómien

06-01-2014, 05:26 AM

What about the maniac? Are we talking movie-maniac? Professor-maniac? Or just a straight up maniac?

I interpret the role as a wild card with no allegiance...if so, then the maniac only helps us as an unknown, because the wolves aren't going to kill a revealed maniac. But as an unknown, there's still a danger we lynch the maniac. And it sets up the possibility of wolves trying to fake maniacal tendencies, knowing we won't want to lynch the maniac.Interesting, I simply read the maniac as a randomized version of the hunter.

Can Inzil clarify if the maniac wins with the village or on his own (I assume not with the moviephiles, for heaven's sake) or if this is classified information?

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-01-2014, 06:31 AM

Interesting, I simply read the maniac as a randomized version of the hunter.

Yeah, I also understood it as "I am the Hunter, but I will take my revenge on you whoever you are if you lynch me during the Day." Or rather, there had been many versions of Hunter who operated like this, technically the only difference here being that the Maniac does not choose anybody to "hunt". And note that the Day lynch still means the Maniac can take down a Wolf, if a Wolf is among those who voted him/her, but of course you have the element of randomness there. (Pointing this out since my initial "brain-shortcut" equation was "kills Wolf during night, kills innocents during Day", which is not entirely true, although of course still preferable not to lynch at all. So in that respect, it really IS similar to the Hunter. And since there was no mention of any special rules, I simply assume the Maniac is innocent.)

Nerwen

06-01-2014, 06:39 AM

Nerwen's link on the Cuyahoga is brokey.
Weird– the link seems to be formatted correctly, but it just won’t work.

Originally Posted by Boromir88 View Post
What about the maniac? Are we talking movie-maniac? Professor-maniac? Or just a straight up maniac?

I interpret the role as a wild card with no allegiance...if so, then the maniac only helps us as an unknown, because the wolves aren't going to kill a revealed maniac. But as an unknown, there's still a danger we lynch the maniac. And it sets up the possibility of wolves trying to fake maniacal tendencies, knowing we won't want to lynch the maniac.
Interesting, I simply read the maniac as a randomized version of the hunter.

Can Inzil clarify if the maniac wins with the village or on his own (I assume not with the moviephiles, for heaven's sake) or if this is classified information?
I was also thinking of it as a sort of Hunter-variant, as that’s how Zil originally described it– but the concept has changed since.

Unfortunately Zil is rather cagey about the details (no doubt on purpose).

Excellent! The target is 12 players, to allow for three baddies.

I altered the Maniac a bit, taking out the correlation with a Hunter. He really isn't a Hunter, since he takes no active role in who dies. As a matter of fact, I probably will keep to myself who the Maniac is, so the person himself will be surprised.

Now, the narration seems to indicate three moviephiles, i.e. the “three baddies”. Therefore I think the Maniac can’t be on their side, or he’d be a fourth “baddie". Also I don’t think he could be actively opposed to the village on his own account, since that would also shift the role into “evil” territory– cf werebears.

Then of course there’s the possibility that the Maniac isn’t aware of his role, which complicates things even more.

EDIT:X’d with Legate.

Inziladun

06-01-2014, 07:05 AM

Can Inzil clarify if the maniac wins with the village or on his own (I assume not with the moviephiles, for heaven's sake) or if this is classified information?

The Maniac is like a Hunter in that they are in with the village. Basically an Ordo with an added quantity of unpredictability surrounding their death.

Nerwen

06-01-2014, 07:50 AM

Thank you, Disembodied Voice.

Kitanna

06-01-2014, 10:39 AM

Such a terrible, terrible thing to happen to the poor Professor- regardless of whether his fate was death or one of the world's large assortment of Clevelands.
[/B]

Maybe each body part went to a different Cleveland. A spleen in Cleveland, OH. An arm in Cleveland, GA. Perhaps a gallbladder in Cleveland, NC. What a disgusting prospect.

Who here actually liked the movies? Please raise your hand - I'm sorry to say, I'm afraid you might be one of the murderers!
*Tentatively raises a hand* Before you throw rotten produce at me, I like the LOTR as movies, not as adaptations. *ducks a blow to the head* Though I do hate TH with a burning passion. Please let that be my saving grace.

Loslote (or Kitanna) will be lynched.
Woe is me.

Lots of talk about the Maniac. But it looks like the role is a wildcard innocent. A chaotic good perhaps? Or maybe chaotic evil if the Maniac chose to align with the wolves. (Oh my, I wish my friend had never taught me how to play D&D. It's infiltrating my life.)

On an unrelated topic can we throw my neighbors to the moviephiles. 'Cause the bass on their sound system is shaking my desk. :/

Inziladun

06-01-2014, 11:43 AM

Apologies for not noting this sooner, but votes should be like this: ++Inzil. That's for ease of counting.

satansaloser2005

06-01-2014, 12:39 PM

So let me make a couple of predictions about how the Day1 will proceed after this utterly typical beginning:

Nerwen will miss the vote.
Kath will miss the entire Day.
Legate will get into posting novel-length stuff by the deadline.
Loslote (or Kitanna) will be lynched.
Nogrod will be uncharacteristically quiet (okay, you can't really credit me with being a psychic if I get this right, I happen to know he has a busy day in RL).
Speaking of psychics, Shasta will use half of his posts for praising Nerwen (and vice versa, but he always seems to be the one to start).

As a visitor from the future, I can confirm that all of these will happen. Oh, wait. Not the time travel theme this game. Disregard. You're still probably correct though.

The Maniac is like a Hunter in that they are in with the village. Basically an Ordo with an added quantity of unpredictability surrounding their death.

That was informative, yet strangely unsettling.

Maybe each body part went to a different Cleveland. A spleen in Cleveland, OH. An arm in Cleveland, GA. Perhaps a gallbladder in Cleveland, NC. What a disgusting prospect.

Is it just me, or does Kitanna know too much about various Clevelands? Quite suspicious indeed.

Kath

06-01-2014, 01:14 PM

Lommy ... nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Prediction = wrong. :p I'm here!

Inzil said the Maniac is aware of their role in the Admin Thread, and I would agree with Legate that the Maniac isn't counted in the baddie count given their variable role.

Nogrod

06-01-2014, 03:02 PM

Okay. Finally here. It's been a couple of really crazy days - and what Lommy said earlier rings a truth: I'm not going to be very active toDay (too tired of trying to get a real grasp - if there is anything to grasp with this number of posts anyway) - and the DL really is 5AM so all the Finns will most probably vote earlyish this time around.

The only things that kind of give off a slight ping on the radar thus far are:

1. Nerwen's early gun-happiness - which could be just a way of trying to get the ball rolling and therefore laudable.

2. How Boro's important point was totally lost under a more or less odd discussion of whether the maniac is playing for the goodies or baddies... where the former, I think, was the obvious answer - and seems to be it. But what Boro said merits repeating: as we don't want to lynch the maniac (the danger for us is in lynching her/him) but want her/him killed by the wolves by Night (to take one of them with her/him for sure) - the wolves might like to impersonate the maniac trying to avoid lynching that way.

So let's be extra careful with that.

Other than those things, I feel I have little to say right now. But I'll sit back and relax and try to come with something / anything more constructive in a moment - even if it doesn't seem too probable with this little to draw conclusions or speculate upon.

A Little Green

06-01-2014, 03:08 PM

Almost did a Kath but didn't, thanks to Lommy for reminding me we had started! Anyway, I'm super tired so I will unfortunately have to be quite brief toDay, but should be around more toMorrow if I make it that far.

Right-o. As far as I can tell -

Nerwen discusses both Clevelands and Maniacs. Also mentions the "rule of three", which I suppose somebody has to do in every game.
Sally also mostly banters this far, and calls Inzil's rules clarification "informative, yet strangely unsettling". Something there?
Coppermirror remains on the Cleveland sector for now.
Loslote, while not discussing Cleveland, has only posted one early banter post toDay, I assume she'll be back.
Kitanna confuses me because I got the impression that she posted a lot of substance even though she mainly answered banterish posts and commented shortly on the Maniac.
Lommy adequately summarised an average Day 1 and puts in a healthy Lommy amount of AIEEEs and exclamation marks. But she's also the one to ask Inzil for clarification about the Maniac.
Legate has not posted a single novel yet! Instead, one banter about goats and technology and some other confusing stuff, and one post speculating about the Maniac. I don't really understand his "brain-shortcut" (though love that word!!) but it's probably not very relevant since it's related to speculation on a topic that was later clarified by the mod.
Nogrod hasn't posted yet but he's sitting across the table from me and typing forcefully so I bet his post will appear before mine.
Shasta isn't here either, I hope he knows the game is on!
Greenie is happy to be playing werewolf!
Kath is cute. She's also sensible about the Maniac.
Boro gets the credit for the first fully on-topic post on the thread, ie. rules speculation on the Maniac. His original interpretation is rather different from mine, and apparently that of many others as well. Could be he's just an independent thinker (we know he is), could be he's scheming, could be he was trying to provoke discussion? Anyhow I'm not worried about him at the moment.

EDIT: x-ed with Noggie

A Little Green

06-01-2014, 03:20 PM

1. Nerwen's early gun-happiness - which could be just a way of trying to get the ball rolling and therefore laudable.I could be wrong but I'd guess her "gun-happiness" was just a normal "rule of three" post - obligatory Day 1 banter.
2. How Boro's important point was totally lost under a more or less odd discussion of whether the maniac is playing for the goodies or baddies... where the former, I think, was the obvious answer - and seems to be it. But what Boro said merits repeating: as we don't want to lynch the maniac (the danger for us is in lynching her/him) but want her/him killed by the wolves by Night (to take one of them with her/him for sure) - the wolves might like to impersonate the maniac trying to avoid lynching that way.

So let's be extra careful with that.Yes, this is a valid point and, I think, an important one, but the thing is - how does the Maniac behave? How do you impersonate a Maniac? I mean, if the Maniac plays for the village they'd want to get Night-killed, right? Which would mean they might try to impersonate the Seer, which would mean the wolves would try to impersonate the Maniac who tries to impersonate the Seer who tries to impersonate... I mean, maybe you others can follow this, but I can't, at least not this tired. Anyway what I'm saying is that catching someone "impersonating the Maniac" is easier said than done.

Thinlómien

06-01-2014, 03:26 PM

Lommy ... nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Prediction = wrong. I'm here!Darn, then I guess I can't steal Shasta's mantle just yet!

Glad to see the discussion (slowly) starting. It's also getting late here, but at least almost everybody has posted something already.

I'm not sure what to make of Boro's and Nogrod's underlined worry about wolves posing as the maniac. How do you do that except by fake revealing anyway? (And I see that as possibly being more beneficial to the villagers in the long run -

ACTUALLY WAIT

Wouldn't it make the most sense for the maniac to reveal RIGHT NOW?

Ta da, we have a known innocent. Or, if a wolf rises to the bait and fake reveals, the worst thing that can happen is that toDay we lynch two innocents and toMorrow we lynch a wolf, which is still a good scenario for us.

What say you?*

(* given the nature of the game, I should probably apologise for quoting movie!Aragorn)

edit: xed with Greenie's later post

Nogrod

06-01-2014, 03:28 PM

Yes, this is a valid point and, I think, an important one, but the thing is - how does the Maniac behave? How do you impersonate a Maniac? I mean, if the Maniac plays for the village they'd want to get Night-killed, right? Which would mean they might try to impersonate the Seer, which would mean the wolves would try to impersonate the Maniac who tries to impersonate the Seer who tries to impersonate...Love you! :)

And you're right. It is hard to say. But...

But there might arise a situations where it would not be that complicated. I was not calling for a definitive plan to follow certain kind of acts but to keep our eyes open where that might be plausible (naturally it's not wise to specualte too much on those beforehand).

EDIT: X'd with Lommylings

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-01-2014, 03:30 PM

There isn't really much to go on with, indeed, I will just observe on the observations, then. I guess it would be interesting, in the light of any future events, to see the interactions or how people perceive others here.

I like Nogrod's pointing out of the thing Boro said about the Maniac (that WWs might be impresonating him/her), but then again since the Mod has confirmed how the role works, it's essentially the same thing as impersonating any Gifted in any normal game. But of course, it's probably the best way for a Wolf to avoid lynch. Unless they also want to flush out a Seer and pretend that they are the Seer instead. I guess that might bring some interesting dilemmas to the Wolves who are under threat of lynching and consider reveal, which might play nicely to the village's hand.

I also like Greenie's summary of people, but rather for its amusement value. The only thing I find remarkable is her "buddying-up" attitude towards Boro and (very, very slightly) Kath. But I guess that would be just more interesting in hindsight if the situation seemed like it was relevant (e.g. Greenie turning out to be a Wolf or somesuch), for now there's really nothing much overall.

I am definitely going to post here still later, in the hope of reading something more before that and thus being able to make some more reasonable list of everyone and get some ideas from it. I wanted to say "third time's the charm", except that I think that would be already my fourth post, so anyway, before the next time I post I just hope more people would show up so I can post something substantial based on that. Also, with other fellow Finns, not going to stay up too late. So hope people just are around and post a bit...

EDIT: x-ed with second Greenie, Lommy and Nogrod

Thinlómien

06-01-2014, 03:30 PM

Or, if a wolf rises to the bait and fake reveals, the worst thing that can happen is that toDay we lynch two innocents and toMorrow we lynch a wolf, which is still a good scenario for us.To clarify, by "toDay we lynch two innocents" I mean that we lynch an innocent who takes another innocent with him/her - and by the way the maniac might even take a wolf with him/her. (Now that I'm thinking a little further I'm also aware the maniac could take the seer or ranger with him/her too but personally I think it would be worth the risk because we'd still get one wolf down.)

edit: xed with both posts

A Little Green

06-01-2014, 03:30 PM

ACTUALLY WAIT

Wouldn't it make the most sense for the maniac to reveal RIGHT NOW?

Ta da, we have a known innocent. Or, if a wolf rises to the bait and fake reveals, the worst thing that can happen is that toDay we lynch two innocents and toMorrow we lynch a wolf, which is still a good scenario for us.

What say you?*

(* given the nature of the game, I should probably apologise for quoting movie!Aragorn)It comes down to whether we value a known innocent over possibly having the Maniac take down a wolf. I can't say.

EDIT: x-ed with Nog, Leg and Lom.

Nogrod

06-01-2014, 03:34 PM

It comes down to whether we value a known innocent over possibly having the Maniac take down a wolf. I can't say.Exactly my thoughts as well.

The maniac is a powerful weapon I'd rather not lose - and would be inclined to suspect anyone who suggest us to lose her/his ability to kill a wolf. A known innocent early in the game is just one person we should not vote but whose view of things is as imperfect and indecisive as anyones.

Thinlómien

06-01-2014, 03:41 PM

It comes down to whether we value a known innocent over possibly having the Maniac take down a wolf. I can't say.Well that was so simply put that it twists my brain.

Arggh now that I'm thinking this further the game is (lovelily) frustratingly complex.

Because yes, it would be the best if the maniac is killed by the wolves.

But then again, how big are the chances that s/he gets targeted by the wolves? Like between 1/3 and 1/2. (Whereas a known innocent would be an immediate benefit, especially if it was accompanied by a known wolf.)

And now I wanted to say, scratch my plan, the maniac should just reveal if s/he's in danger of getting lynched, and suddenly I see where the concern about wolves pulling the maniac card is coming from.

Geez.

Well, scratch my plan anyway I guess, although in the end it's of course up to the maniac him/herself.

Werewolf is hard. Maybe I should shut up because I feel like flip-flopping is going to come out of my mouth (or keyboard) - if it already didn't. :D

edit: xed with Nogrod

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-01-2014, 03:42 PM

I could be wrong but I'd guess her "gun-happiness" was just a normal "rule of three" post - obligatory Day 1 banter.
Yeah, personally I saw it also too just as Day 1 start banter, especially since it was really one of the first posts and nothing had happened before (and everything else in the posts around it was just Cleveland-banter).

Yes, this is a valid point and, I think, an important one, but the thing is - how does the Maniac behave? How do you impersonate a Maniac? I mean, if the Maniac plays for the village they'd want to get Night-killed, right? Which would mean they might try to impersonate the Seer, which would mean the wolves would try to impersonate the Maniac who tries to impersonate the Seer who tries to impersonate... I mean, maybe you others can follow this, but I can't, at least not this tired. Anyway what I'm saying is that catching someone "impersonating the Maniac" is easier said than done.
In shorter and clearer version, WWs might only want to impersonate a Maniac by saying "I am a Maniac!", or that's how I see it. Simply a way e.g. for a known Wolf to escape the noose, just like they have been doing with Seers for ages.

ACTUALLY WAIT

Wouldn't it make the most sense for the maniac to reveal RIGHT NOW?

Ta da, we have a known innocent. Or, if a wolf rises to the bait and fake reveals, the worst thing that can happen is that toDay we lynch two innocents and toMorrow we lynch a wolf, which is still a good scenario for us.

What say you?*

(* given the nature of the game, I should probably apologise for quoting movie!Aragorn)

Hey, that actually might not be a bad idea at all! Of course it means exposing an innocent (a known innocent), but it

a) leaves the one known innocent alive for at least the time being
b) eliminates the risk of accidentally shooting down two innocents by lynching the Maniac during Day,
c) puts the WWs in front of the decision: to either counter-reveal or just leave the village with extra security and known innocent,
d) the WWs have to decide whether they want to "make a trade" of one of their members during Night-killing the Maniac, or just leave the known innocent (a powerful force) around. It also leaves the Ranger free to guard someone else, because the Maniac can in the worst case just "trade" him/herself. Sounds fair!

By all means... sounds really good. Gotta think about it for a bit still, but sounds really good!

EDIT: x-ed since my last

satansaloser2005

06-01-2014, 03:42 PM

Beg pardon. I just have to get this out of my system. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NjbGr2nk2c)

As for the penguin's plan, I think it's a little too risky, honestly. We have zero control over who the maniac takes down, and while losing the maniac could also eliminate a wolf, it could also cost us our seer or our ranger (or, knowing my luck, me, which would be just as tragic ;)). Sure, we would have a known innocent and eliminate a bad lynch target, but the wolves may decide it's a good idea to target them straight away. Why would the baddies want to kick the bomb? Frankly, their odds of survival are better now.

The earlier the maniac is killed, the more likely their random target won't be a wolf (the wolves are 25% of the group right now, which will almost certainly grow as the game progresses). As the group gets smaller, killing the maniac becomes a bigger risk to the wolves, so if anything, I think exposing the maniac toDay would only lead to their death toNight, and I don't think that's a good idea.

I may have thought about this a little too much.

x'd since 29, as I was distracted by food

Nogrod

06-01-2014, 03:45 PM

since the Mod has confirmed how the role works, it's essentially the same thing as impersonating any Gifted in any normal game.Well yes, and no.

I think the maniac is actually very interesting character in this game because s/he can deliver a certain kill if the wolves try to get at her/him during the Night. That is not usual. Also - as the other side of the coin - s/he is dangerous to us exactly lynched: Legate actually himself mentioned earlier thet the manic can take down a wolf as well if lyched - which is true, but something I don't think lessens the danger considerably.

So this maniac is - to my mind - no regular game-character and thus impersonating the maniac would have different dynamics from impersonating some other roles more regular to the game.

EDIT: Sally: Check the rules! The maniac delivers a certain wolf-kill if targeted by Night!

Thinlómien

06-01-2014, 03:46 PM

A known innocent early in the game is just one person we should not vote but whose view of things is as imperfect and indecisive as anyones.Agreed, although a known innocent the wolves can't kill is a definite asset especially towards the end of the game and could be the tie-breaker.

d) the WWs have to decide whether they want to "make a trade" of one of their members during Night-killing the Maniac, or just leave the known innocent (a powerful force) around. It also leaves the Ranger free to guard someone else, because the Maniac can in the worst case just "trade" him/herself. Sounds fair!Unfortunately, I don't think the wolves would want to trade a wolf for a known innocent.

edit: xed with Sally and Nog

satansaloser2005

06-01-2014, 03:47 PM

Kitanna

06-01-2014, 03:48 PM

2. How Boro's important point was totally lost under a more or less odd discussion of whether the maniac is playing for the goodies or baddies... where the former, I think, was the obvious answer - and seems to be it. But what Boro said merits repeating: as we don't want to lynch the maniac (the danger for us is in lynching her/him) but want her/him killed by the wolves by Night (to take one of them with her/him for sure) - the wolves might like to impersonate the maniac trying to avoid lynching that way.

Since the Maniac's role pretty much revolves around dying to fullfill the role, who is to say they'll align with the village? A hunter can at least chose who they think is evil, Maniac is subject to the whims of the mod-god.

I kind of see the Maniac as a potential cobbler/hunter hybrid, a wildcard as Boro put it.

Wouldn't it make the most sense for the maniac to reveal RIGHT NOW?

Ta da, we have a known innocent. Or, if a wolf rises to the bait and fake reveals, the worst thing that can happen is that toDay we lynch two innocents and toMorrow we lynch a wolf, which is still a good scenario for us.
Interesting...

To clarify, by "toDay we lynch two innocents" I mean that we lynch an innocent who takes another innocent with him/her - and by the way the maniac might even take a wolf with him/her. (Now that I'm thinking a little further I'm also aware the maniac could take the seer or ranger with him/her too but personally I think it would be worth the risk because we'd still get one wolf down.)

I don't know if this guarantees us a wolf lynch on Day 2 though. Say our Maniac reveals and is not believed and lynched. We lose three innocents before Day 2 starts. And there's only twelve villagers right?

But if the Maniac's reveal is believed we do have a known innocent. And in such a small village it could be dangerous to wait for a known innocent to appear.

I'd say the risks and the reward on this plan are probably about equal.

A Little Green

06-01-2014, 03:49 PM

The maniac is a powerful weapon I'd rather not lose - and would be inclined to suspect anyone who suggest us to lose her/his ability to kill a wolf. A known innocent early in the game is just one person we should not vote but whose view of things is as imperfect and indecisive as anyones.I agree, although I also think it might be a simple matter of preference - play it safe but lose a potential advantage (Maniac reveals) or take a risk that might pay off or backfire (Maniac does not reveal). And while in this particular matter the "play it safe" -option would probably be the one the wolves would favour, it's also a valid opinion for an innocent, so I wouldn't be so quick to jump to suspecting Lommy either - especially as her NO WAIT -part looked pretty honest to me.

Okay, the above was written before Lommy's later post where she tells us to scratch her plan. That makes me think better of her. (Also - classic Lommy flip-flopping! <3)

EDIT: x-ed with Lommy, Sally and Kit

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-01-2014, 03:54 PM

Wait a second. I think either I am missing what you are all talking about here, or you are all absolutely off-track yourselves.

The way I see the idea with the Maniac revealing is this:

1. Maniac reveals. ("Hello. I am the Maniac.")
Two possibilities follow:

2. Nothing happens - fine. We have a known innocent.
2a. During the Night the WWs decide to kill the Maniac, which essentially means trading one of their own for a known innocent (since the Maniac always kills a Wolf during the Night).
2b. During the Night(s) the WWs pass Maniac by, ergo leaving an immortal known innocent.

3. Or there is a counter-reveal. Now we have a known pair out of which obviously one is a Wolf and other a Maniac.
3a. We lynch one of them straightaway.
3aa. We lynch the Wolf, everyone is happy and we have a known innocent.
3ab. We lynch the Maniac, we lose him and one more person, who may be 3aba. an ordo, 3abb. a Wolf, 3abc. a Gifted. Whereas 3abc. is the most awful thing that might happen, 3abb. might statistically have at least some chance of success (though of course it's all just pure chance anyway) since one would assume the WWs would rather be voting for lynching the Maniac, not for their packmate. That would also leave some interesting remaining voters to scrutinize AND in either case, we'd have a known Wolf - the other person who wasn't lynched!!!

3b. We don't lynch them, but we keep them both around until some more convenient time. Which simply might be a tactical tool to use later during the game, but might also create dangerous confusion by pulling too much attention to itself, causing controversy ("to lynch or not to lynch", "I want to lynch XY because they suggest lynching this one or that one of the two revealed 'Maniacs'" etc...), simply too much chaos. Personally I would be fond of 3a if it came to such decicion. But not to get ahead of ourselves...

...the bottom line being, I think if we want to do it, might be better to do it in a bigger village than in smaller village. So it might be good.

EDIT: x-ed since my last post

Shastanis Althreduin

06-01-2014, 04:00 PM

I didn't realize the game had started! Nobody poked me :(.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-01-2014, 04:01 PM

Since the Maniac's role pretty much revolves around dying to fullfill the role, who is to say they'll align with the village? A hunter can at least chose who they think is evil, Maniac is subject to the whims of the mod-god.

I kind of see the Maniac as a potential cobbler/hunter hybrid, a wildcard as Boro put it.
The Maniac is on the village's side. The Mod had said it several times loud and clear.

I don't know if this guarantees us a wolf lynch on Day 2 though. Say our Maniac reveals and is not believed and lynched. We lose three innocents before Day 2 starts. And there's only twelve villagers right?

But if the Maniac's reveal is believed we do have a known innocent. And in such a small village it could be dangerous to wait for a known innocent to appear.

I'd say the risks and the reward on this plan are probably about equal.

It is definitely risky. But Day 2 Wolf lynch is basically guaranteed with this. See my elaborate scheme above ;) Because if the Maniac reveals, then I guess he/she should be believed unless there's a counter-reveal, no? I mean, no reason to lynch somebody who comes forward saying "I am the Maniac!" with no counter-reveal. And if there IS a counter-reveal, well, then one of them is a Wolf and the other is not. Simple as that. Yes, the worst ratio is losing 2 innocents to 1 Wolf, which I think is still better for the village (if you take the percentage of WWs:innocents in total, if they lose one, it hurts them more than if we lose one), especially in the beginning, OR it creates potentially an even more powerful tactical advantage - one more known piece on board, eliminating a whole one bundle of decisions we have to make (a bundle of decisions regarding one person).

Kitanna

06-01-2014, 04:03 PM

The Maniac is on the village's side. The Mod had said it several times loud and clear.

I honestly don't remember reading that. I must be blind. Scratch everything I said in my last post about that. Sorry.

Nogrod

06-01-2014, 04:03 PM

EDIT: REferring here to Legate's scenario about how the different maniac-revelation scenarios would go...

I was basically thinking more subtler things - and these early Days... No pompous revelations but a wolf leaving nice little hints some others (not probably most of the people) might get to say s/he's the maniac, and then those few would start defending her/him in case of someone esle suspecting her/him, based on them catching the hints and not willing to see her/him lynched.

There is lot of that going on in a Werewolf game: that you have your thoughts and interpretations who might be bluffing or hinting at something, but you're not willing to share your reasons 100% openly becasue the wolves might not have noticed it or something like that.

EDIT: X'd since Shasta

Thinlómien

06-01-2014, 04:05 PM

Don't I love this discussion... :D

Legate, you are saying basically exactly the same as I am, but leaving out the same vital and obvious fact: that we can get a wolf through the maniac if we leave him/her alone, if s/he reveals, we can't count on getting a wolf. (But we do get an innocent.)

3b. We don't lynch them, but we keep them both around until some more convenient time. Which simply might be a tactical tool to use later during the game, but might also create dangerous confusion by pulling too much attention to itself, causing controversy ("to lynch or not to lynch", "I want to lynch XY because they suggest lynching this one or that one of the two revealed 'Maniacs'" etc...), simply too much chaos. Personally I would be fond of 3a if it came to such decicion. But not to get ahead of ourselves......what?? We should definitely NOT do this.

...the bottom line being, I think if we want to do it, might be better to do it in a bigger village than in smaller village. So it might be good.Agreed. Although, if I understood Sally right, she had a fair point in saying that the further the game goes, the bigger a threat the maniac is to the wolves, so maybe we want to keep him/her around to keep the wolves on their toes.

Also, if *I* was the maniac, I probably wouldn't reveal because being a known innocent is kind of boring.

edit: xed with everything after Legate's abc post

A Little Green

06-01-2014, 04:09 PM

I didn't realize the game had started! Nobody poked me :(.*poke* Does it help if I poke belatedly?

Legate, enlighten me if I'm being stupid but why would the Maniac revealing mean by default getting a wolf by Day 2? What if there is no counter-reveal nor a Night-kill of the known Maniac (which the wolves would be insane to do)?

I really need to get some sleep now (just when things are getting interesting, how typical). I don't feel comfortable voting anyone at this point given how little has happened, but I'd feel even less comfortable abstaining. The only thing that's caught my eye so far is nothing but a hunch, but here it is -

The Maniac is like a Hunter in that they are in with the village. Basically an Ordo with an added quantity of unpredictability surrounding their death. That was informative, yet strangely unsettling.Something rubs me the wrong way here, maybe it's this being the only comment she makes on the whole Maniac issue in a post otherwise comprised of banter. Safely noncommittal, leaving ends open, casually concerned but not really. Flimsy reasoning for a vote, but better than nothing, so

++ Sally

Good night!

satansaloser2005

06-01-2014, 04:12 PM

Something rubs me the wrong way here, maybe it's this being the only comment she makes on the whole Maniac issue in a post otherwise comprised of banter. Safely noncommittal, leaving ends open, casually concerned but not really.

Not that it particularly matters, but I said it was unsettling because Dun is a disembodied voice. ;)

Coppermirror

06-01-2014, 04:13 PM

Back and reading.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-01-2014, 04:17 PM

I honestly don't remember reading that. I must be blind. Scratch everything I said in my last post about that. Sorry.
Just for reference:
The Maniac is like a Hunter in that they are in with the village. Basically an Ordo with an added quantity of unpredictability surrounding their death.

EDIT: REferring here to Legate's scenario about how the different maniac-revelation scenarios would go...

I was basically thinking more subtler things - and these early Days... No pompous revelations but a wolf leaving nice little hints some others (not probably most of the people) might get to say s/he's the maniac, and then those few would start defending her/him in case of someone esle suspecting her/him, based on them catching the hints and not willing to see her/him lynched.

There is lot of that going on in a Werewolf game: that you have your thoughts and interpretations who might be bluffing or hinting at something, but you're not willing to share your reasons 100% openly becasue the wolves might not have noticed it or something like that.
Well I was operating under the assumption that all this is relevant only in the case somebody comes out and says "I am the Maniac." Because that's really what this whole plan seemed to me to be about.

Legate, you are saying basically exactly the same as I am, but leaving out the same vital and obvious fact: that we can get a wolf through the maniac if we leave him/her alone, if s/he reveals, we can't count on getting a wolf. (But we do get an innocent.)
Well it's up to the Wolves. A known innocent until the end is a tactical advantage, and the smaller the village, the bigger.

Agreed. Although, if I understood Sally right, she had a fair point in saying that the further the game goes, the bigger a threat the maniac is to the wolves, so maybe we want to keep him/her around to keep the wolves on their toes.
Well that would be rather the main thing I'd be interested in discussing, what is actually worse, the Maniac revealing now or the Maniac revealing later? Situationally, it can be very deadly for the Wolves sometime later (e.g. if there's only one Wolf left, or even just two, simply the less WWs, the more powerful the Maniac gets), but of course it still gives the chance to the village to accidentally mislynch the Maniac. Yeah, in that case, and that'd be probably what was Inzil's idea about the role, it would create a "wild" element in the lynching and all. Leaving the Maniac unrevealed gives more chances to the WWs to pose as one. Upper side being, however, that anyway once one Maniac reveals, then if it's a fake reveal, there can be a counter-reveal. Well, it requires some thinking. It's true that tactically, the Maniac not being known also threatens WW's Night kills. Quite drastically, that's true.

Also, if *I* was the maniac, I probably wouldn't reveal because being a known innocent is kind of boring.
That I can understand as well.

Nogrod

06-01-2014, 04:17 PM

Agreeing with Lommy & Greenie. I see revealing of the maniac a waste this early on, especially when a known innocent this early isn't such an asset - which it later in the game sure is! And all this talk of wolves counter-revealing this early... no way they would do that as it would be suicidal to them.

And also a secret maniac is a major threat to the wolves later in the game - whereas a know maniac is no threat at all to them during the Nights!

EDIT: X'd with Legate

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-01-2014, 04:22 PM

Legate, enlighten me if I'm being stupid but why would the Maniac revealing mean by default getting a wolf by Day 2? What if there is no counter-reveal nor a Night-kill of the known Maniac (which the wolves would be insane to do)?
Yeah, of course, that was all under the headline of responding to Kitanna - her line was "I don't know if this guarantees us a wolf lynch on Day 2 though. Say our Maniac reveals and is not believed and lynched." - so I was referring to that. Obviously, we otherwise get "only" a known innocent. Which, right - I am pondering that in my post just above this one - it's a question which is better. Might be that actually the tactical advantage of threatening the WWs during their Night-planning outweighs the advantage of known innocent. So maybe we should after all leave the subject alone. In any case, if not now, what I said certainly holds value for the future.

Now to think about who to vote, though, and all that...

EDIT: x-ed with Nogrod

Nogrod

06-01-2014, 04:29 PM

Might be that actually the tactical advantage of threatening the WWs during their Night-planning outweighs the advantage of known innocent. So maybe we should after all leave the subject alone. In any case, if not now, what I said certainly holds value for the future.I do agree.

And also, there clearly is a limit when the revelation becomes obsolete aka we can no longer afford it.

BUt the biggest question I think is the one between whether to have a known innocent (that one becoming stornger and stronger asset every Day) or to keep up the threat and possibly kiil a wolf (chances getting betgter ev ery Night).

But yeah. I'm up to some other issues before going to sleep as well...

satansaloser2005

06-01-2014, 04:35 PM

Agreed. Although, if I understood Sally right, she had a fair point in saying that the further the game goes, the bigger a threat the maniac is to the wolves, so maybe we want to keep him/her around to keep the wolves on their toes.

Precisely, although not exactly for the reason I stated previously. If the time bomb keeps quiet, the wolves could stab them by mistake. If the maniac is out in the open, we have a known innocent, but the wolves know not to kill them at Night.

In short, we either get information now and the wolves have it too, or we stay in the dark and make the bad guys have to wolfy foot around on their Night kills. I personally prefer the latter.

Nogrod

06-01-2014, 04:38 PM

Before this discussion about the maniac really bursted out I was reading the first posts to see whether there was anythnig of note.

Well there wasn't anything you'd make a vote on with any confidence - or even to help you decide on a more or less "pray it goes well" choice...

But there is a thing I noticed I'd yet bring up as being better than nothing.

Now Lottie starts the Day with a kind of pre-emption underlining how she never gets through D1. Kitanna does more or less the same in her first post ("Woe is me!") - and Legate opens his Day by making an in character disclaimer that everyone knows how he hates the films.

All of those reports are true (I'm not sure how often Kit actually gets killed on D1 but I do have a feeling it has happened a couple of times) and they could be taken as just kind of sarcastic opening when there is little else to say - and with Legate as a justified IC-banter.

Nevertheless it caught my eye as none else made that kind of opening defences.

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-01-2014, 04:42 PM

And also, there clearly is a limit when the revelation becomes obsolete aka we can no longer afford it.

BUt the biggest question I think is the one between whether to have a known innocent (that one becoming stornger and stronger asset every Day) or to keep up the threat and possibly kiil a wolf (chances getting betgter ev ery Night).

Yep, essentially, I think there would be some ideal "breaking point" when it would be a bit late for that. But of course again, depends on the situation - amount of remaining Wolves, Gifteds or even known innocents and so on.

But now I really am starting to feel sleepy and it's getting late... so... should vote. Problem is, not very many people actually said much of substance and those who did spoke mostly sensibly, so what to make of it? Blind shot is really NOT a good option here. Whereas I shared Greenie's concern about Sally - I had exactly the same gut feeling about that post, but the problem was that it was exactly only a gut feeling - that is not enough for me. I was even contempating about pulling a Nerwen (meaning, not voting), but then no - especially with such stakes and elements (Maniac...) that's giving too much power to other hands and, well, just irresponsible. Ah well. Hope I at least x-posted with something interesting. Otherwise I'll probably have to cast my vote for someone who out of those who posted little substance (about half the people) posted significantly less substance than what one would expect they could, or somesuch, if there would be such person...

EDIT: x-ed with Sally and Nogrod

Nogrod

06-01-2014, 04:55 PM

Twelve people in the "village", three of them moviephiles.

One innocent lynch toDay and one succesful kill for the wolves during the Night would leave us with 10 players at 7-3. Another such D-N cycle would result in 5-3.

It is a small game. That means: if we get it wrong one or two times out gifteds need to really do some excellent work for us to prevail.

And there is so little to go on.

A list for your / my convenience is here (to be on this page and near to be referred to).

Nerwen
Sally
Coppermirror
Loslote
Kitanna
Lommy
Legate
Nogrod
Shasta
Greenie
Kath
Boro

I need to vote soon. Any sparks on any issue or direction would be truly helpful...

Coppermirror

06-01-2014, 04:58 PM

As for the penguin's plan, I think it's a little too risky, honestly.

Help, can someone tell me who the penguin is?

- Am writing up analysis.

Kitanna

06-01-2014, 05:00 PM

Help, can someone tell me who the penguin is?

- Am writing up analysis.

Lommy.

Thinlómien

06-01-2014, 05:03 PM

I need to vote soon too, and I would be mostly going by gut-feeling this early. I might follow Greenie's vote on Sally (I seem to have noticed that Sally has this "friendly and reasonable" vibe whenever she's guilty and there's a bit of that now), or Nerwen, who also just seems a bit wrong somehow, like detached. But seriously I have no idea. The ones I atm think that are innocent are Kitanna and Greenie, again gut-feeling or tone of posts mostly.

edit: xed with Kit&Cop

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-01-2014, 05:04 PM

A short list in an attempt to find who to vote.

Nerwen - actually, even though she did not say much, looks like she at least tried. Would not have reason to lynch her, and no reason to suspect her of inactivity.
Sally - likewise, and actually especially later posts also logically. Not really reason to vote her.
Coppermirror - nothing much. Could vote based on inactivity.
Loslote - nothing much. Same case as above, really.
Kitanna - some mis-thoughts, but that's about it, can't really be blamed for that. Otherwise nothing much.
Lommy - also, stirred quite a discussion, I don't have a reason to believe it wasn't with good interest, so not a lynch subject
Legate - is me.
Nogrod - posting, thinking, fine, could be a Wolf as much as anyone else, but not really a reason to cast a vote for him.
Shasta - so where is he... appears, disappears, so like, what?
Greenie - thinking and posting. Had to vote early, there is something creepy about her, but then again maybe it's just her. (You're welcome.)
Kath - that was the most unsubstantional one-liner (okay, two-liner) I have seen in a while, I wonder if there's a reason to believe she'll come back.
Boro - yeah, thoughts, decent. Also something slightly off about his posting, but again, gut-feeling, nothing more.

So, all in all, I don't want to vote for any of those who posted toDay and said something. I could at most vote Greenie or Boro based on slightly off gut-feeling. Or then Cop, Lottie, or theoretically Kath or Shasta based on inactivity, resp. activity essentially going to zero - but of course I understand there wasn't very much to talk about (in the case of the first two, there definitely wasn't yet, in the case of the latter two, I'd have expected them to post a bit more, but still). In fact, probably Shasta would get the worst out of that. But that's simply based on the criteria of evaluating how much who posted, nothing more. It isn't like I have any better criteria. Unless I really go with gut-feelings and such. Bah.

EDIT: ha, x-ed since my last, I see some of the people from the start are back...

Boromir88

06-01-2014, 05:14 PM

Apologies for the no quotes or bolding, I'm currently on my phone and caught up through reading page 1. I should be back to my computer within an hour or so...

My original interpretation about the maniac was more based on the title "maniac" I think unpredictable nutter. And then the powers sounded like the maniac just got revenge on whatever side wronged him/her. With the unknown allegiance I thought we should be on the lookout for wolves playing a bit of a random cobbler to look like the maniac and avoid lynching.

However, with the professor's clarification that the maniac is on our side. I wouldn't especially worry about wolves acting/fake revealing as the maniac.

And no to Lommy's idea that the maniac reveals...the role is best as an unknown to everyone because then is the best chance a wolf gets taken down if they target him/her. I don't know what pack would try to take down a revealed maniac, knowing one of them would die for certainty.

Loslote

06-01-2014, 05:15 PM

Okay, I'm back - sorry I was so quiet today, I had a long day of moving. :rolleyes:

First, I would not suggest the Maniac reveals themselves toDay. The potential to catch a wolf unawares at Night is, I think, more valuable than the potential to catch a suicidal wolf - which is what that wolf would have to be to counter-reveal at this point.

I found Greenie's vote more innocent than not - there really wasn't much to go on when she voted, and I can see where she got her gut feeling vote from (I don't share that gut feeling, but I can understand it). Lommy strikes me as seeming innocent, too, by virtue of her slight flip-flop over her plan - that could either be a wolf anxious to avoid committing to a potentially suspicious plan or an innocent genuinely concerned that her idea might not have been as helpful as it had been intended. I'd be less inclined to vote for either of them.

Legate, for no real reason, strikes me as a little suspicious. Nothing vote-worthy, but his overall tone comes across as a little too careful for my taste.

Add in Nog, who has seemed mostly fine so far, and you've got the bulk of the posters thus far. Not a whole lot to go on, so if someone would say something incriminating soon, that'd be appreciated!

EDIT: xed since Cop

Nogrod

06-01-2014, 05:20 PM

Lottie, Kath, Shasta - one post each with no content at all from all of them. Kath makes a sensible sentence concerning the role of the maniac but the other two do basically nothing (Lottie posts as one of the first but Shasta relatively late on the game - which doesn't mean he couldn't have been in a hurry). But none of them promises anythning - like coming back sometime... Kath probably isn't as it is quite late there as well (prove me wrong Kath!).

Boro - Three posts instead of one but nothing more than the above three - except his rather good point on the maniac (even if his interpretation of the role is a bit odd).

Coppermirror - Belongs more or less to the same club, but seeing now that I am, that she's making a list I'd like to see it first as if whether there is a contribution there - unless it takes on long time to get ready and I need to go to sleep.

The Finnish department: Lommy, Greenie and Legate (yeah, him too in this "Finnish -camp") have been active and thoughtful and therefore are assets to us whatever they are as they make the game by providing ideas and discussion.

That leaves Nerwen, Kitanna and Sally who have all been in a way suspicious (not strongly but a little) but also been reasonable enough to backtrack on their error (Kit & Sally) or at least tried when there was nothin g going on (Nerwen).

Hmm... not easy to choose a pick I'd trust would be right.

EDIT: X'd with a couple last ones - partly doing away with the points expressed in this post... :)

Nogrod

06-01-2014, 05:28 PM

That leaves Nerwen, Kitanna and Sally who have all been in a way suspicious (not strongly but a little) but also been reasonable enough to backtrack on their error (Kit & Sally) or at least tried when there was nothin g going on (Nerwen). Oh... that didn't mean these three are going to be my choices...

"That left" those three to say something about. It might be one of the three - or then one of the non-contributers I'd vote toDay (the problem with the latter is that voting early you can't say who is going to end up a non-contributer - but on the other side of the coin: you can't just not-vote someone because s/he is going to (or could) post after you).

A dilemma (trilemma, quadrilemma, quintilemma...), as D1's always are,

Legate of Amon Lanc

06-01-2014, 05:47 PM

Okay. Time to vote. I think I really have to go based on feeling I get from the posts rather than anything else, since there is really no other criteria I can use. Some of the non-posters-before have shown up and posted, so let's hope for more. But I can't be here for DL.

Essentially I could vote - for the slight uneasiness-feeling from the posts - Greenie or Boro, who has posted now again and quite sensibly, in fact. Still something unsettled me about it a bit, but only a bit. The other option is some of the totally silent people, out of which the one I'd pick would be Kath, who was around, quoted the Mod, and disappeared. Others either were around and/or I have a reason to expect them back.

So, with all that, and after about ten minutes of consideration, it would be,

++Boro

since I don't want to make a completely throwaway vote, and this way I am at least making a vote for someone who (I presume) would be still around and can make a case for himself if it became relevant (unlike if I voted for Greenie or probably Kath).

Gotta sleep! Good night, folks.

Thinlómien

06-01-2014, 05:50 PM

This is hard and it's already past my bedtime.

As I'm pretty sure there will still be plenty more lynch candidates toDay, I will not make the list longer. So I vote

++Sally

and we'll see how the pot stirs.

The rest of you bunnies, choose well.

Nerwen

06-01-2014, 05:50 PM

Here and reading.

Nogrod

06-01-2014, 05:50 PM

Sally, Coppermirror, Boro, Kath and Kitanna might be my "shortlist" (with a little bad feeling about Legate haunting me - even if I think I agree with him on the issue in the end). I just can't vote Lottie again on D1.

Of those Sally already has a vote and I'm not sure I suspect her enough to give her another. BUt her carefulness not to suspect anyone is looking too careful.

Coppermirror might be posting a list anytime and I'd hate vote her just before she actually contributes.

If Boro is just coming in through a mobile it would explain why he's still a bit out of touch about what is going on (see his latest post) and it would be nasty to vote someone who is (possibly) going to contribute a lot in just a few hours.

Kath is one of the loveliest persons this earth carries on it, but she will probably not post anything else and will count on getting through - whatever her role - and that is annoying. Could vote just for that as she would do that also as a baddie.

Kitanna could be the other choice: reasonable, ready to correct her errors but yet contributing little by way of suspecting anyone (to keep the good faith with everyone) - and for also being online and following the discussion (to answer a random question) but not taking part in it.

EDIT: X'd with two votes & Nerwen reporting in...

Nogrod

06-01-2014, 05:58 PM

Okay. My bedtime as well (approaching 3AM).

++ Kitanna

Starting with self-defence / martyr-role, being careful overall and also to not suspect others, hanging around but not contributing... Enough for a D1 vote where there is so little to go after - and too many reasons not to vote someone else on D1 -basis.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-01-2014, 06:04 PM

Speaking of psychics, Shasta will use half of his posts for praising Nerwen (and vice versa, but he always seems to be the one to start).

And why shouldn't I? We were married, once. :p

Lots of talk about the Maniac. But it looks like the role is a wildcard innocent. A chaotic good perhaps? Or maybe chaotic evil if the Maniac chose to align with the wolves. (Oh my, I wish my friend had never taught me how to play D&D. It's infiltrating my life.)

First major thought. Inzil just got through saying the Maniac is in with the village - why would Kitanna mention the possibilty of them aligning with the wolves?

2. How Boro's important point was totally lost under a more or less odd discussion of whether the maniac is playing for the goodies or baddies... where the former, I think, was the obvious answer - and seems to be it. But what Boro said merits repeating: as we don't want to lynch the maniac (the danger for us is in lynching her/him) but want her/him killed by the wolves by Night (to take one of them with her/him for sure) - the wolves might like to impersonate the maniac trying to avoid lynching that way.

Second major thought - I approve of Nogrod bringing this back up; consequently I also approve of Boro bringing it up in the first place, obvious though it may have been. Side thought - it might be interesting to see who was the first to, as Nog said, bury it under the discussion about the Maniac's allegiance. Lemme scroll up - hm. It ends up being Lommy, followed by Legate and Nerwen.

How do you impersonate a Maniac? I mean, if the Maniac plays for the village they'd want to get Night-killed, right? Which would mean they might try to impersonate the Seer, which would mean the wolves would try to impersonate the Maniac who tries to impersonate the Seer who tries to impersonate... I mean, maybe you others can follow this, but I can't, at least not this tired. Anyway what I'm saying is that catching someone "impersonating the Maniac" is easier said than done.

A fair point, but there's no real reason not to talk about it, especially this early.

Lommy floats the idea of the Maniac revealing. Gut reaction - I don't like it. If the Maniac reveals, the wolves won't attack them (and thus lose one of their number). We'd have a known innocent, sure - but is that worth it?

(Greenie mentions the same in #32.)

Legate coming down on the side of the plan makes me twitch a bit, especially since he crossed with Lommy nixing her own plan.

Done with page 1. As of now my gut tells me to vote Kitanna or Lommy, possibly Legate, but this readthrough has been very rushed.

Boromir88

06-01-2014, 06:55 PM

I cordially dislike Day 1s...at least there's been some good and necessary discussion on the maniac. If nothing else for clarity purposes, but I also agree with Nog and Shasta about how the wolves might try looking like the maniac, knowing it's not a role we want to lynch. I was more worried that would be the case if the maniac was a wild card.

Shasta and Nog look good enough to me today...won't vote for them. I like Greenie's contributions and it's good to see that despite the long lay off there's no rust on her blade. She's as sharp as ever.

Everyone else is pretty much in a "not enough info" category or "wait and see more"...not sure I want to take a stab in that quite larger pack.

Legate's vote is ok...I mean I understand it, don't like it, but I see where he's coming from in that I would at least be around later, Greenie and Kath would not be. He freely admits it's safe though:

since I don't want to make a completely throwaway vote, and this way I am at least making a vote for someone who (I presume) would be still around and can make a case for himself if it became relevant (unlike if I voted for Greenie or probably Kath).

Lommy troubles me the most today. That "what if the maniac reveals today to give us a known innocent" business. Comes off trying to divert the topic to gifteds revealing which is rarely ever good.

So, Lommy tops my vote for lynch today...will see if I've cross-posted with anyone (hopefully yes).

Coppermirror

06-01-2014, 07:01 PM

Summary/analysis

Nerwen: Banters, invokes "The Rule of Three" for me, Boro and Sally and makes an accusation against me. Considers the concept of the Maniac and thinks they can't be on the side of the Moviephiles or it would have been in the narration.

Not a lot to go on there.

Sally: Banters. Thinks Lommy's plan for the Maniac to reveal is too risky, as the wolves could choose to kill them straight away to reduce later danger. Then says her post was based on a misunderstanding of the Maniac role. Then argues that the decision's between info for us and also the wolves and no info for us but a time bomb for the wolves.

This reasoning makes sense, although the risk of a bad lynch also remains. But the Maniac would have the option of revealing as long as they were around for voting.

Loslote: Banters. Returns and is against the Maniac revealing toDay. Thinks Greenie's vote for Sally looks innocent and that Lommy's flip-flop makes her look innocent. Finds Legate's tone slightly suspicious on the grounds of sounding careful.

Not a lot to say here either.

Kitanna: Banters. Thinks the Maniac is a wildcard innocent or cobbler/hunter hybrid and the risks and rewards of them revealing are equal. Then takes back earlier posts after finding out the Maniac's on the village's side.

Agh, so many people taking back their posts. Nothing much to analyse here either.

Lommy: Banters, makes joke predictions for how the Day will go. Asks for clarification about the role from Mysterious Disembodied Voice Inzil. Proposes that the Maniac should reveal so we'll have a known innocent or a wolf will fake reveal. Gets confused, says to scrap the plan and that she now understands what Boroand Nog's concerns about fake reveals were about. Then tells Legate she doesn't think the wolves would trade a wolf for a known innocent. Disagrees with Legate's 3b, agrees with Sally about increasing risk for wolves from the Maniac as the game goes on. Thinks Sally and Nerwen are mildly suspicious and Kitanna and Greenie are innocent, all based on tone/gut feeling.

I'd say it's best for the Maniac to keep quiet, so the suggestion that they should reveal right now is a little questionable, but Lommy's done a lot to get discussion going and and her reasoning after her reassessment of her plan has been solid. Not going to vote for her.

Legate: Banters. Discusses the Maniac. Likes Nogrod, thinks Greenie is buddying up very slightly to Boro and Kath. Thinks wolves will only counter-reveal in the normal way. Likes Lommy's Maniac-reveal plan a lot. Expands on the reasoning later. Decides not to abstain from voting. Posts a list with suspicions, plans to vote for a low-content poster or for Greenie or Boro on a gut feeling, then votes Boro.

I like Legate's reasoning for (a) and (b) in post #35, but not (c) and (b). In #42, I can see logic in the reasoning but I disagree with the idea of the Maniac revealing and with the idea that it's better for the Maniac to reveal early if it's to be done. An unrevealed Maniac is a greater risk for the wolves as the game goes on. Takes time to explain the reasoning for his vote, which is good, but might even be slightly too careful.

Nogrod: Gets straight to the point and lists two things that ping him. Nerwen's banter and the way Boro's point about the importance of not lynching the Maniac got buried in the discussion. Thinks the value of the unrevealed Maniac is greater than that of a known innocent, but points out that the Maniac still poses a risk to the village if lynched. Comments on possible opening defences from Lottie, Kitanna and Legate. Does what looks like a logical analysis in #65 and #70. Then votes Kitanna for self-defence opening/carefulness/lack of content.

Nog's reasoning has been fairly clearly stated through all of that. He's also contributed to the discussion a lot. Not voting for him.

Shasta: Showed up late. One substantive post at #72. Some concerns about Kitanna. Likes Nog and Boro's reasoning, and looks at Lommy, Legate and Nerwen for possibly trying to bury the point. Dislikes the Maniac reveal plan. Thinking of voting Kitannaor Lommyand possibly Legate.

His point about Kitanna considering the possibility of the Maniac aligning with the wolves is interesting and perhaps a stretch, given that Kitanna herself ends up reasoning in the same comment that the Maniac would be most likely to be an innocent. But otherwise I think his reasoning looks okay.

Out of the above, I'm...
Feeling relatively good about: Lommy, Nogrod
Neutral about: Sally, Shasta
No idea about: Kitanna, Lottie, Nerwen
Mildly suspicious of: Legate

This is taking far longer than expected, so I'll post what I've got now and cover Greenie, Kath and Boro in a later post. Right now I'm thinking of possibly voting for Legate, but I still haven't looked at those three people's posts closely yet. Aargh, I need to hurry up here.

Edit: crossed with Boro.

Nerwen

06-01-2014, 07:12 PM

Sorry to take so long. Busy, net went down, maniac discussion headache-inducing.

Some thought on your thoughts, O Shasta, my peerless one:
First major thought. Inzil just got through saying the Maniac is in with the village - why would Kitanna mention the possibilty of them aligning with the wolves?
My jewel, I think she simply hadn’t noticed Zil's post.

However, she then goes to say:
#40
Since the Maniac's role pretty much revolves around dying to fullfill the role, who is to say they'll align with the village? A hunter can at least chose who they think is evil, Maniac is subject to the whims of the mod-god.

I kind of see the Maniac as a potential cobbler/hunter hybrid, a wildcard as Boro put it.
Which could be interpreted as a wolfy, “Hey Maniac, why not join us?”

Second major thought - I approve of Nogrod bringing this back up; consequently I also approve of Boro bringing it up in the first place, obvious though it may have been. Side thought - it might be interesting to see who was the first to, as Nog said, bury it under the discussion about the Maniac's allegiance. Lemme scroll up - hm. It ends up being Lommy, followed by Legate and Nerwen.
Okay, but, as Kit notes it was also Boro who first brought up the idea of the Maniac being a “wild card” (#14). So what I said about Kit also applies somewhat here– could this possibly be a subtle hint to the Maniac?

Lommy floats the idea of the Maniac revealing. Gut reaction - I don't like it. If the Maniac reveals, the wolves won't attack them (and thus lose one of their number). We'd have a known innocent, sure - but is that worth it?

(Greenie mentions the same in #32.)

Legate coming down on the side of the plan makes me twitch a bit, especially since he crossed with Lommy nixing her own plan.

The penguin's plan does sound like something a baddie might want to put forward– however, that’s not really the vibe I’m getting from her, especially once she starts flip-flopping. Meanwhile, Legate goes on and on exploring unlikely scenarios, such as the “best-case” of a wolfish counter-reveal on Day One… I don’t know what to make of this.

EDIT:X’d with Boro and Cop.

Inziladun

06-01-2014, 07:31 PM

With 30 minutes to DL, I make the voting as follows:

Greenie--> Sally (1)
Legate--> Boro (1)
Lommy--> Sally (2)
Nog--> Kitanna (1)

Boromir88

06-01-2014, 07:34 PM

No cross-posts with my last but Cop and Nerwen have returned since. My brain is fried at this point, so they're still sitting in the "wait and see" group...until I've fully recovered on a good night's sleep. (aside...I decided I could join despite the 50 hrs/week work week because they were finally all at the same time for the next week and a half - 8am-6pm. But this morning found out that was shot, and schedule has been juggled around. Not going to effect me in the sense that I can definitely still participate, but it will be quite sporadic in terms of when I can post and vote from day-to-day).

I can't envision my opinions changing over the next half-hour especially since those I'm most suspicious of are already gone...

++Lommy

Nerwen

06-01-2014, 07:35 PM

I see Kath has posted.

This… never… happens… :eek:

If I vote on top of that… will the universe implode?

EDIT:X’d with Boro.

Loslote

06-01-2014, 07:36 PM

I'm really not thrilled with any of the options so far. I've still got a bad feeling about Legate, but I don't have anything concrete, and I'm not completely comfortable voting for him. I'd be more comfortable with him than with the other three on the table, though, so...

++Legate

EDIT: xed since Zil

satansaloser2005

06-01-2014, 07:38 PM

I see Kath has posted.

This… never… happens… :eek:

If I vote on top of that… will the universe implode?

Let's find out. :smokin:

(Obviously I'm back.)

Nerwen

06-01-2014, 07:39 PM

Now, why has Sally got two votes?

EDIT:X’d with Sally.

satansaloser2005

06-01-2014, 07:41 PM

Now, why has Sally got two votes?

Because of the mean Finnish girls. :(

Coppermirror

06-01-2014, 07:44 PM

Summary/analysis part 2

This is going to be more hurried than the above part, unfortunately.

Greenie: comments on all the posts so far. It's unavoidably a little bantery but she also gives a limited analysis. The reasoning in #27 about how to catch someone "impersonating the Maniac" is confusing and I can't wrap my head around it. If anyone was trying to detract from the point about not wanting to lynch the Maniac, this looks the closest thing to it. But in #32 she makes a very clear and salient point about what the Maniac reveal issue comes down to, so on balance I think she wasn't trying to detract from it. Agrees with Nog about the advantages of the Maniac not revealing but also thinks it might come down to a matter of preference; very even-handed here. Thinks better of Lommy. Votes for Sally on a gut feeling.

Nothing stands out as suspicious in Greenie's posts, but she could easily be a wolf playing it safe. Her reasoning seems sound. The vote doesn't have a great basis but she gave her reasoning and there really wasn't much to go on.

Kath : Showed up briefly, but has basically been absent. This is bad. But I take it from things people have said that this is normal Kath behaviour, so I won't vote for her toDay based on this.

Boro: Banters. Brings up the Maniac, and that's the first non-bantery thing said up to that point. Doesn't post again until #63, where he comments on his speculation about the Maniac's allegiance before Inzil's clarification. Disagrees with the Maniac reveal plan. He likes Shasta, Nog and Greenie, is okay with Legate, and is troubled by Lommy. I can see his reasoning for the latter but I don't agree. He then votes for B]Lommy[/B].

It's hard to get a read on Boro, but he made an effort to get the discussion going at least. I won't vote for him toDay.

So in addition to my list above...
?????: Kath.
Neutral about: Greenie, Boro

I'm likely to vote for Legate soon.

Edit: crossed with Nerwen at #78 and all the posts after it.

Coppermirror

06-01-2014, 07:47 PM

And voting now:

++Legate

Nerwen

06-01-2014, 07:50 PM

So… Greenie votes Sally basically for banter which she finds “unsettling” (#48) and Lommy to “see how the pot stirs” (#68). Which I suppose is okay for early Day One voting; however at the time of posting it means Sally dies by default, and I find several other people more suspicious.

Dare I risk the universe?:eek:

EDIT:X’d with Cop’s vote-post.

satansaloser2005

06-01-2014, 07:51 PM

Dare I risk the universe?:eek:

Go big or go home, and since you're probably already at home....

Coppermirror

06-01-2014, 07:53 PM

Vote count so far:

Greenie --> Sally(1)
Legate --> Boro(1)
Lommy --> Sally(2)
Nog --> Kitanna(1)
Boro --> Lommy(1)
Lottie --> Legate(1)
Cop--> Legate (2)

There's a tie between Sally and Legate.

Yet to vote: Kath, Nerwen, Sally, Shasta, Kitanna

satansaloser2005

06-01-2014, 07:55 PM

I feel Kit misinterpreting the maniac's role isn't as big of a deal as people think (though I would feel sympathy for her, having also misconstrued the nature of the role). She's still evil, of course, as she always is, but the push from Nog strangely leaves me to suspect him more than her.

Legate remains a mystery as always, but I must say I feel he has overanalyzed the maniac more than others, and his contributions about the topic strike my gut as forced somehow.

And then there is Lottie's vote for Legate, which also seems forced, like she needed to direct the lynch away from the existing candidates (not that I should be complaining). I understand the dissatisfaction that comes with seeing your Day 1 lynching options, but this did not seem like classic indecisive Lottie.

I'm uncomfortable voting for my prince so early in the game, and the same holds true for the nearly silent Shasta and Kath. The rest didn't particularly stand out to me. I'll note, however, that Greenie usually has a better excuse to vote for someone than what she gave for voting me; using my comment about Inzil being unsettling is flimsy, even for Day 1, but if she's tired and rushed, I can see such a mistake being genuine, so I'm inclined to let that slide for toDay and attribute it to rushed Day 1 thoughtlessness.

Obviously voting in a moment, but posting this and getting caught up again before I do so.

Nerwen

06-01-2014, 07:57 PM

Hmmn. I actually do find Legate questionable but Kitanna just a bit more so, for reasons I gave at #75.

So–

++Kitanna

*universe implodes*

EDIT:X’d with Sally.

satansaloser2005

06-01-2014, 07:58 PM

The universe only implodes if you format your vote correctly. ;)

Kitanna

06-01-2014, 07:59 PM

Posts #4-7:
Coppermirror, Boro, Sally, and Lotti: In game shenanigans. Nothing more. Nothing less.

post #8: Nerwen, much of the same in game banter, though I liked her "theory" on moviephiles lining up for their favorite films in order to be the first. But nothing substantial in her post.

Posts #9-12: More of the same.

Post #13: Lommy creates a list of what will happen for the Day, including Kath missing the day, Nog being quiet, and Lottie or myself being lynched.

Post #14: Boro brings up the first post about the Maniac. Maniac equates to wildcard.

Post #16: Lommy puts in her two cents on how she views the Maniac.

Post #17 & 18: Legate adds his two cents. Then Nerwen with hers.

Post #19: Zil clarifies. Apparently I missed this post entirely on my first read through.

Post #24: Kath appears, speculates on Maniac I would agree with Legate that the Maniac isn't counted in the baddie count given their variable role. I would say, like me, she probably hadn't seen Zil's response on the Hunter nature of the Maniac.

Post #25: Nog says what he likes of Boro's statement, reiterating the fact we do not want to lynch the Maniac. Also makes a comment about Nerwen's gun-happiness. which could be just a way of trying to get the ball rolling and therefore laudable. though this statement could be seen as the very same thing, seeing as Nerwen's gun-happiness looked to be nothing more than in game banter, maybe being used to draw out overly defensive folk.

Post #26 & 27: Greenie lists what she likes of everyone so far. The most interesting thing she says is Sally also mostly banters this far, and calls Inzil's rules clarification "informative, yet strangely unsettling". Something there? I'm not sure why Greenie would read that as something there. The Maniac to me is an unsettling role, given that who goes down in the event of their death is random and especially worrying in they are lynched. That's what I would guess Sally meant by unsettling. But Greenie's response is odd to me.

Though I do like what Greenie brings up here Yes, this is a valid point and, I think, an important one, but the thing is - how does the Maniac behave? How do you impersonate a Maniac? I mean, if the Maniac plays for the village they'd want to get Night-killed, right? Which would mean they might try to impersonate the Seer, which would mean the wolves would try to impersonate the Maniac who tries to impersonate the Seer who tries to impersonate... I mean, maybe you others can follow this, but I can't, at least not this tired. Anyway what I'm saying is that catching someone "impersonating the Maniac" is easier said than done.

Post #28: Lommy suggests the Maniac reveal so we have a known innocent.

Post #29: Nog comments on the afore mentioned Greenie post.

Post #32: Greenie says It comes down to whether we value a known innocent over possibly having the Maniac take down a wolf. I can't say. Which I have to say is probably the most important thing to take away from Lommy's plan.

Post #33: Nog agrees with Greenie.

Post #34: Lommy retracts her plan

Post #35: Legate leans toward agreeing with Lommy's plan or at least sees more value than risk. Lays down some reasons why it's a good idea. It didn't jump out at me when I first read it, but I'm surprised at how agreeable Legate was with this plan. Seems off.

Post #36: Sally finds Lommy's plan too risky.

Post #40 & 44: Me proving once and for all I simply can't read. Legate correcting me.

Post #41: Greenie weighs in on a Maniac reveal.

Post #42: As does Legate, including scenarios of what could happen. And for the second time he mentions the wolves trading one of theirs to get to a known Maniac. Which to be seems like a careless, dangerous move for the wolves and I'm not sure why Legate thinks this is a likely scenario.

Post #48: Greenie votes for sally based on a feeling. Something rubs me the wrong way here, maybe it's this being the only comment she makes on the whole Maniac issue in a post otherwise comprised of banter. Safely noncommittal, leaving ends open, casually concerned but not really. Day 1 reasoning, but I find it interesting she goes for Sally. Other players fell into this same boat. The Maniac discussion was a huge part of the day and for the most part no one really laid out any suspicions (beyond the occasional vague feeling or banter related accusation). So why Sally?

Post #56: Nog: Now Lottie starts the Day with a kind of pre-emption underlining how she never gets through D1. Kitanna does more or less the same in her first post ("Woe is me!") - and Legate opens his Day by making an in character disclaimer that everyone knows how he hates the films.

All of those reports are true (I'm not sure how often Kit actually gets killed on D1 but I do have a feeling it has happened a couple of times) and they could be taken as just kind of sarcastic opening when there is little else to say
I'm not sure how else you would take those first two dozenish posts. Nothing had happened and the banter train hadn't quite run out of steam yet. It wasn't until Boro spoke that anything really happened, so mountains out of mole hills?

Post #57: Legate: Whereas I shared Greenie's concern about Sally - I had exactly the same gut feeling about that post, but the problem was that it was exactly only a gut feeling - that is not enough for me. Did I miss something in Sally's post that was just super suspicious? Normally I do find Sally very suspicious early on, but honestly, I am seeing nothing that elicits a gut-feeling about her guilt. And yet two others have this same feeling. I feel worse about Legate's "gut feeling". He says "that is not enough" but seems like he's putting Sally in people's minds.

Post #58: Then Lommy joins in. Seriously, what am I missing?

Post #62: Legate gives us his list and thoughts I could at most vote Greenie or Boro based on slightly off gut-feeling. I think I missed a post somewhere about Legate's suspicions (aside from the one where he says he had shared Greenie's opinion on Sally). Because I feel like I missed something when I read his thoughts on the village. I don't have time to go back and reread everything though, but I'm not liking what he's up to.

Post #64: Legate is off. Greenie and Lommy are mostly innocent.Typical day one "not sure who's who".

Post #65 & 66: Lays out who he trusts and who he finds suspicious and who is quiet. Then follows up with Oh... that didn't mean these three are going to be my choices... Why was this necessary? Why not vote for one of the three you found moderately suspicious? It's Day 1, it's not like you're going to have a good reason to vote for anyone.

Post #67: Legate votes Boro.

Post #68: Lommy votes Sally.

Post #69: Nog votes for me. Which annoys me because of Starting with self-defence / martyr-role because I responded to a banter post with banter and yet I never brought it up again. I can understand his other points against me, though I feel they could easily be transferred to a number of other players right now, but the self-defense part is bothering me a lot.

DL is fast approaching.

So I'm not overly fond of Nog, but I won't vote for him because I am more concerned with the three who shared concerns over Sally. Legate, Greenie, and Lommy.

I think of the three Greenie is the least evil. Lommy votes so as not to throw out more lynch candidates and puts Sally in the lead, fishy. And Legate, like I said earlier I think I must have missed something, but he made mention of having a gut feeling of Sally and then dropped it immediately. Like he pushed Sally's name out there some more for people to grab, then turned around and voted Boro.

++Legate

Nerwen

06-01-2014, 08:00 PM

The universe only implodes if you format your vote correctly. ;)
:o
Now it’s imploded!

satansaloser2005

06-01-2014, 08:00 PM

Of Kit and Legate, I find the latter more unsettling at the moment.

++Legate

Inziladun

06-01-2014, 08:01 PM

DL. Cease and desist.

Inziladun

06-01-2014, 08:11 PM

After the startling turn of events during the previous night, the group began a debate over their present course of action. Since it seemed leaving the premesis was out of the question, it appeared to be clear that eliminating the threat posed by the Professor's assailants would be up to them. Fortunately, his notebook continued to provide a bit of information. Under the RADAGAST section was found: "Such potential for development! Changing phys features v. useful, many applications. Appearance change continues to be non human only! 'master of shapes and changes of hue' indeed! And still don't know why subjects with evil thoughts/deeds only become dogs."
As a solution to the issue of how to protect themselves from those who harm them, RADAGAST seemed to offer the best bet, if it only worked.
The next step was to decide who would be the first to go. Eventually, it was settled that Legate would have the dubious honor. Protesting loudly, he was without ceremony bundled into RADAGAST. The standard red button was pressed. After a loud "HUMMM" and a momentary dimming of the lights, silence reigned. Cautiously, they eased open the door and peeped inside. There, on the floor, was merely a meerkat. Hopefully, the chickens and goats outside would not mind sharing their compound.

The "Living"
Nerwen
Sally
Coppermirror
Loslote
Kitanna
Lommy
Nogrod
Shasta
Greenie
Kath
Boro

The "Dead"
Professor Inzil
Legate (Ordo)

IT IS NIGHT 2.

Dreamer, Guardian, and Moviephiles do your respective thing.

Inziladun

06-02-2014, 08:00 PM

Late in the Night, when shade walks and shadow rules, three Tolkien-movie fans plotted mischief.
'Ok, so we don't really want to kill anyone,' said one. 'But what can we do to get rid of these people?'
'Any other handy inventions by the possibly late professor, maybe?' posited another.
'Ah!' whispered the third, and held out a hand. 'Look here!' There lay a vial of liquid with a red "X". Underneath that mark could still be read BOMBUR. 'Now,' said the holder of the vial, 'if this is like the other gadgets around here, this name means something. Either it'll make you obsessed with food, or it'll send you to sleep.'
'I think you're right,' agreed the first. 'Should we try it and see what happens?'
'Why not?' said the second. 'It could be good for a laugh, anyway, and we already talked about who we want to see gone first. So I guess we just pour a bit of this...' Their talk dissolved to soft whispers.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Greenie awoke suddenly with an uneasy feeling of danger. Trying to escape wholly from sleep, she was too slow to act against the three figures who quickly rushed to her. As her mouth was already open to protest, it was a simple matter for one of them to aim a drop of liquid from the vial they held. Instantly, Greenie felt sleep overwhelming her.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

In the morning, Greenie was discovered, still fast asleep. Nothing could be done to awaken her. Her breathing was deep, and by the smile on her lips, at least she must have been having pleasant dreams. It was decided to leave her where she was, and wait to see when she would awake.

The "Living"
Nerwen
Sally
Coppermirror
Loslote
Kitanna
Lommy
Nogrod
Shasta
Kath
Boro

The "Dead"
Professor Inzil
Legate (Ordo)
Greenie (Ordo)

IT IS DAY 2

Coppermirror

06-02-2014, 11:10 PM

It's quiet...:eek:

Looking at Greenie's posts yesterDay:

In #26, there doesn't appear to be anything there which might clear or implicate anyone that I can see, other than a mild "something there?" about a comment of Sally's.

In #48, Greenie voted for Sally based on the bad feeling about Sally she initially mentioned in #26. But she didn't sound very firm about it at all and described it as flimsy reasoning. If Sally is a Moviephile, that might still have been enough to get Greenie night killed.

She doesn't seem to have strongly suspected anyone at all, and she was the first to vote and have to leave. I suppose it's possible she was a trailless kill, but I can't really believe that in a village this small. There must have been something.

I'm going to have to vote early toDay, probably in the next 8 to 10 hours, since I can't guarantee I'll be around to vote in the morning or the early afternoon. I'll come back after dinner to do some analysis of yesterDay and the way the votes went.

Thinlómien

06-03-2014, 02:50 AM

Only one post and it' almost 7 hours into Day2? Come on people. (I'm especially looking at you, Shasta.)

Alas, poor Greenie. I want to check her posts when I have time, because obviously taking out a potential seer would make the most sense to the wolves. I think Greenie at least had the sort of quiet and sensible tone that often gives away gifteds (even though ordos who are not the type to intentionally stir the pot or stream of consciousness post *coughyourstrulycough* might often give that vibe too.)

As for the lynch yesterDay, I'm not really surprised. Now I seem to recall ordo-Legate has recently very often been lynched on Day1 or Day2 with quite similar reasoning and schedule. Going to have a better look at the lynch too to entertain myself with the possibility that there was a wolf as a lynch candidate.

Thinlómien

06-03-2014, 03:22 AM

Okay, so -

re: Greenie - nothing much there really. If the wolves thought her the seer, it was either because of her suspicion of Sally or possibly they thought she had dreamed of innocent Boro (in her first list Boro is the one who gets the clearest exoneration).

re: the lynch - before the Legate lynch started happening, the vote count was Sally 2, Kitanna 1, Lommy 1, Boro 1 and Legate 1. 7 minutes to the deadline there was still a tie between Legate and Sally, to which Nerwen contributed by putting Kitanna too at two votes. Then Sally and Kitanna both voted Legate and it was done.

Put these things together and suddenly Sally seems like a case to be scrutinized.

Boromir88

06-03-2014, 04:31 AM

Put these things together and suddenly Sally seems like a case to be scrutinized.

And Nerwen. There's something fishy about that exchange near the end of the day when Nerwen asked how does sally have 2 votes?

I think Sally more than anything was playing it close to the vest yesterday...maybe that doesn't warrant 2 votes. But it's Day 1 the lynch is 99% of the time unpredictable and random.

I'm in a dilemma because I have to vote in 4-ish hours or I won't be able to vote today since I won't be back. I'm leaning Nerwen (see above)
but I was hoping to have a little more action today when I got up :/

Thinlómien

06-03-2014, 05:22 AM

And Nerwen. There's something fishy about that exchange near the end of the day when Nerwen asked how does sally have 2 votes?

I think Sally more than anything was playing it close to the vest yesterday...maybe that doesn't warrant 2 votes. But it's Day 1 the lynch is 99% of the time unpredictable and random.

I'm in a dilemma because I have to vote in 4-ish hours or I won't be able to vote today since I won't be back. I'm leaning Nerwen (see above)
but I was hoping to have a little more action today when I got up :/Yeah, although I'm not sure both Sally and Nerwen are wolves, if yes, they are quite bold, or Nerwen at least is quite bold. (It would please me though if both my Day1 suspicions were correct. Maybe I still have some hope in developing psychic powers! Even though I failed most miserably in predicting that Kath will not appear and Nerwen will not vote. Like, I'm freaked out, but in a very positive manner. :eek: )

Coppermirror

06-03-2014, 05:23 AM

Okay, time for me to look at the voting yesterDay.

Day 1 voting

Greenie-innocent --> Sally(1)

Legate-innocent --> Boro(1)

Lommy --> Sally(2)

Nog --> Kitanna(1)

Boro --> Lommy(1)

Lottie --> Legate-innocent(1)

Cop --> Legate-innocent(2)

Nerwen --> Kitanna(2)

Kitanna --> Legate-innocent(3)

Sally --> Legate-innocent(4)

Non-voters: Kath, Shasta (reasons given in admin post)

So the only people who attracted 2 or more votes were Sally, Legate and Kitanna, with Kitanna breaking the tie and followed by Sally with the latter bringing Legate to 4 votes. Both of the last two Legate voters were in some danger themselves because Kath and Shasta had not yet voted. Kath may be prone to being quiet on Day 1, so it might have been a reasonable bet that she wouldn't vote, though.

I can't see anything obviously suspicious about the votes there yet, so I'll post this now and try to take another look. I've got to vote within the next two hours, but today hasn't had a lot of useful discussion yet. If I had to pick right this second I would probably vote for Sally. But, Lommy's raised some other possible reasons why Greenie might have seemed Seerish. I'll read over Greenie's posts again.

Edit: crossed with Lommy

Loslote

06-03-2014, 06:25 AM

So, I don't have too long right now - I'm about to head off to work - but I'll be back about five hours before DL and I'll have plenty of time to post then. In the meantime...

I don't think the wolves necessarily thought Greenie was the Seer. More likely, in my mind, they thought she was a safe kill. Not only was she almost universally considered one of the least suspicious people, she was also heavily involved in the Maniac discussion - in such a way as might have tipped the wolves off to the fact that she was not herself the Maniac. I see more evidence for that than for a potential Seer-kill.

Alright, I really do have to run. Hopefully there'll be more to work with when I get back!

Boromir88

06-03-2014, 07:06 AM

On yesterday's voting:

Something rubs me the wrong way here, maybe it's this being the only comment she makes on the whole Maniac issue in a post otherwise comprised of banter. Safely noncommittal, leaving ends open, casually concerned but not really. Flimsy reasoning for a vote, but better than nothing, so

++ Sally

Greenie: Night killed. Known innocent. I might as well combine the two posts...I didn't get any seerish, at least not in her vote. Maybe she dropped a hint earlier where she seemed more certain of someone's innocence. But her last post of Day 1, if Greenie was targeted because the wolves thought she was the seer, I don't see how they would have reached that conclusion from Greenie voting for sally. Based on that post, if sally is a wolf, who thought Greenie was the seer, then sally is rather paranoid in this game. (sally 1)

++Boro

since I don't want to make a completely throwaway vote, and this way I am at least making a vote for someone who (I presume) would be still around and can make a case for himself if it became relevant (unlike if I voted for Greenie or probably Kath).

Legate: I didn't like it, but skipping over it, because there's no point anymore. Sorry, Legate, but it's no insult to say that a dead man is dead. (sally 1, Boro 1)

This is hard and it's already past my bedtime.

As I'm pretty sure there will still be plenty more lynch candidates toDay, I will not make the list longer. So I vote

++Sally

Lommy: Yesterday I thought this reasoning was pretty strange, because I'm of the opinion...no games, no tricks with voting. Just tell us who you think is most suspicious and vote for that person. It seemed with this explanation Lommy wasn't even particularly suspicious of sally, she just didn't want to add more names when the last would certainly grow. (sally 2, Boro 1)

Day 1 is really random and unpredictable, because we're taking a stab in the dark and it tends to spread out the vote. So if there's any day where my "no tricks, no games" in voting doesn't apply, it would be Day 1. This vote didn't look as bad as it did yesterday.

++ Kitanna

Starting with self-defence / martyr-role, being careful overall and also to not suspect others, hanging around but not contributing... Enough for a D1 vote where there is so little to go after - and too many reasons not to vote someone else on D1 -basis.

Nogrod: This is a weird explanation. I agree with the latter half, but don't see where he finds this self-defense/ martyr-role Kitanna played yesterday? She said to scratch her post about the maniac away because she missed what Inzil said. Unless I missed something, I don't know where Nogrod got this "self-defense/martyr" vibe from Kitanna. (sally 2, Boro 1, Kit 1)

(I voted for Lommy next) (sally 2, Boro 1, Kit 1, Lommy 1)

I'm really not thrilled with any of the options so far. I've still got a bad feeling about Legate, but I don't have anything concrete, and I'm not completely comfortable voting for him. I'd be more comfortable with him than with the other three on the table, though, so...

++Legate

Lottie: First vote for innocent Legate (and crossed with my vote). Ok as far as a Day 1 explanation goes. Doesn't feel entirely comfortable adding another name, but at the same time said she was less comfortable about voting for any of the other 3 (sally, me, and Kitanna). The vote for Legate looks ok, but at this point it's making me wonder if any of those who had votes yesterday are wolves. That is, it almost looks like Lottie knows the 3 that had votes at that point are innocent (because they're not one of her mates) and she therefor didn't care about adding another innocent (Legate) to the pile and seeing which one gets the noose. (sally 2, Boro 1, Kit 1, Lommy 1, Legate 1)

I like Legate's reasoning for (a) and (b) in post #35, but not (c) and (b). In #42, I can see logic in the reasoning but I disagree with the idea of the Maniac revealing and with the idea that it's better for the Maniac to reveal early if it's to be done. An unrevealed Maniac is a greater risk for the wolves as the game goes on. Takes time to explain the reasoning for his vote, which is good, but might even be slightly too careful.[...]
...++Legate

Copper: I'm combining one of Cop's posts with her vote post, because she didn't give the reasons when voting for Legate. She sounded most suspicious of Legate, and based on his posts on the maniac. Ok. Her analysis posts on people seemed to be mostly favoring people and not wanting to step on too many toes. Can't find that too suspicious at the moment, it's hard to form clearer opinions when it's this quiet. (sally 2, Legate 2, Boro 1, Kit 1, Lommy 1)

Hmmn. I actually do find Legate questionable but Kitanna just a bit more so, for reasons I gave at #75.

So–

++Kitanna

*universe implodes*

Nerwen: says the reasons are in #75. And it's because of Kit's misinterpreting the maniac's role. Says also that I came up with the same interpretation so the same could apply to me in hinting to the maniac. If the wolves thought the maniac was a wild card at the beginning of the day and were trying to hint to the maniac, that would be suspicious. On my end I thought a slightly new role deserved discussion and my point got sidetracked to the maniac revealing after Inzil clarified. (sally 2, Legate 2, Kitanna 2...bunch of people 1)

And I believe the universe is still here.

I think of the three Greenie is the least evil. Lommy votes so as not to throw out more lynch candidates and puts Sally in the lead, fishy. And Legate, like I said earlier I think I must have missed something, but he made mention of having a gut feeling of Sally and then dropped it immediately. Like he pushed Sally's name out there some more for people to grab, then turned around and voted Boro.

++Legate

Kitanna: self-preservation vote (so neither good nor bad). Someone should go back and check to see if what she says about Legate dropping some early ill feelings on sally after she got a vote is true. I'm running out of time. If it's true than her reason for voting Legate, instead of sally, looks better because it would be more genuine/honest, even if Legate was an innocent. (Legate 3, Kit 2, Sally 2)

Of Kit and Legate, I find the latter more unsettling at the moment.

++Legate

sally: self preservation as well, and appears to have crossed with Kit's vote. Doesn't really offer an explanation in the vote, because of the DL approaching. But she did explain in an earlier post, where she thinks there's too much of a deal being made about Kit misinterpreting the maniac role, and Legate's overanalyzing with all the different scenarios.

She also makes a good point on Lottie's vote:

And then there is Lottie's vote for Legate, which also seems forced, like she needed to direct the lynch away from the existing candidates (not that I should be complaining). I understand the dissatisfaction that comes with seeing your Day 1 lynching options, but this did not seem like classic indecisive Lottie.

I want to see if I've crossed with anyone (please...please...have some posties). Then I'll have to vote in an hour. It's much earlier than I wanted and will be primarily based on yesterday's votes - more on them to come.

Coppermirror

06-03-2014, 07:08 AM

Quick suspicions/analysis

Nerwen: at #77 she had some suspicions of Kitanna, and maybe some suspicions of Legate. She seemed to think Lommy looked more innocent than not. At #85 she wasn't entirely happy with Greenie's vote but said it was okay for Day 1.

If Nerwen was a Moviephile trying to save a packmate Sally there, I'm not sure she would have been so obviously unhappy with the Sally vote. Same goes for Kitanna.

Sally: Her reasoning on Day 1 seemed fine to me, and nothing pinged me about her tone. But, if Greenie was killed because of sounding Seerish, what she said about Sally looks the most likely. I disagree with Lommy; I don't think Greenie's wording was clear about exonerating Boro.

Loslote: Her tone in her vote post seemed a little vague to me. Maybe slightly off. It could just be Day 1 blues, though. From toDay, it looks as if she's suggesting that it's more likely the wolves were trying to pick a safe, non-Maniac kill for Day 1 than to go for the Seer. I don't think this makes sense.

Kitanna: Posts with a summary of the Day. Disagrees with Greenie's suspicion of Sally. Thinks Legate looked off. Wonders why Sally was getting so much attention. Thinks Nog was making mountains out of molehills about her, Lottie and Legate's banter. Although not happy with Nog, she's more concerned about the three people who were suspicious of Sally (Legate, Greenie, Lommy), whom she finds fishy.

Her reasoning seems consistent there and brings up points that nobody else has made. Nothing jumps out as especially suspicious yet, anyway.

Lommy: Has been active toDay. Other than that, not a lot of change since yesterDay.
Nogrod: No posts since I last commented about him, I think.
Shasta: Ditto, and I'm worried about his lack of activity.
Kath: Also worried about lack of activity.

Boro: He's suspicious of Nerwen's tone and not so much of Sally. With the low amount of posts he's had so far I'm finding him very hard to get a feel for.

At this point I think I'm going to vote Sally since that's the only lead I have for wolf catching right now and I have to get some sleep. Most likely I won't be back before the deadline.

++ Sally

Edit: crossed with Boro

Boromir88

06-03-2014, 07:42 AM

Nogrod: Probably the strangest reasoned vote yesterday...that is I'm scratching my head wondering where he got the self-defense/martyr vibe from Kitanna. It doesn't appear he'll be back before I have to go, so it's not strong enough to vote for Nogrod today, particularly since I think there are more suspicious votes yesterday. He's on my radar though, until I see more and get an explanation.

Lottie: For reasons mentioned earlier, and I agree with sally the vote for Legate looks forced. By that I mean I agree that it looks as if Lottie doesn't care about the outcome. Sally seems to think Lottie made the vote to steer attention away from someone who already had votes...I don't see who that could be though, because sally would be playing quite the bold wolf if she pointed this out last night about wolf-mate Lottie's vote, while sally was also in the lead at that point. She would have no reason to protect me, unless she's trying to just set me up as one of her mates. So, then maybe Kit? With Kit getting a few suspicions based on the maniac mix-up it's possible Lottie would try to get attention away from people voting Kit and push up Legate for all of his lengthy analysis about complicated scenarios.

Whether it's that, or in my opinion, looking like she put another innocent name on the list and didn't have a care who ended up being lynched yesterday...because none of them were a wolf. Either way, it's a safe and suspicious vote.

Nerwen: Pretty much the same reasons as Lottie's vote, in that her vote created the tie between Sally, Legate, and Kit. I agree with Lommy's point today that is rather bold if Nerwen and sally are mates. So, she's not trying to protect a mate (she voted Kit, Legate is innocent, and it's a stretch to see her and sally as mates).

Kit:. I'm even more rushed now than I thought, so I will just refer to my previous post asking if what she said in her reasons voting Legate accurate. It warrants further watching but not going to vote for Kit today if I don't know and likely won't be able to read her response.

++Lottie

I have to go all on the vote yesterday...and I have to go now. Lottie's vote looked the worst yesterday.

Kitanna

06-03-2014, 08:18 AM

I have to get to work soon so I am looking only at vote posts/reason posts ('cause they're not always in the same post) for the moment. I'll have more time while on break at work to dig deeper though.

Greenie: Votes Sally for basically D1, vague feelings. With Greenie now gone was she targeted because she voted for Sally? Or because she hadn't really laid down any suspicions for anyone else?

Legate: Votes Boro because something was off about him, and because and this way I am at least making a vote for someone who (I presume) would be still around and can make a case for himself if it became relevant (unlike if I voted for Greenie or probably Kath). So giving Boro a chance to redeem himself.

Lommy: Votes Sally which if I remember correctly she had the same vague reasoning of "feels off" that Greenie had. So if the wolves attacked Greenie because she left very little trail with her reasonings, the same could be said of Lommy. So why Greenie and not Lommy?

Nog: Votes me because of of self-defense and for not throwing out suspicions. Though I hadn't throws out suspicions at the time, there were others in the same boat. Also said because I was there but not contributing. I was on and off all day, but didn't really have time for a lengthy post until about an hour and a half before the end of day.

Boro: Votes Lommy for reasons not really stated in the post. I went back a few and it looks like his main point against her was the Maniac reveal suggestion. Comes off trying to divert the topic to gifteds revealing which is rarely ever good.

Lottie: Votes Legate for vague feelings of wrongess. Had she mentioned him prior as a suspect?

Cop: Votes Legate for reasons stated in a previous post, but in Post #74 he doesn't really say much other than he liked some of Legate's Maniac reveal reasonings and didn't like the rest.

Nerwen: Votes me for my misinterpretation of the Maniac role. Puts it down as a possible attempt for a wolf to bring over the Maniac to their side.

Me: I vote Legate because of his vague suspicions of Sally, but then for turning around and voting for Boro.

Sally: Votes Legate because obviously she's not going to vote herself and finds Legate more suspicious. Legate remains a mystery as always, but I must say I feel he has overanalyzed the maniac more than others, and his contributions about the topic strike my gut as forced somehow.

And then there is Lottie's vote for Legate, which also seems forced, like she needed to direct the lynch away from the existing candidates (not that I should be complaining). I understand the dissatisfaction that comes with seeing your Day 1 lynching options, but this did not seem like classic indecisive Lottie.
She could have had a case for Lottie too, but maybe didn't want to throw her vote away and voted Legate instead. Just looking at the times I'm pretty sure Sally cross-posted with me.

I think that's all the votes from D1.

Mildly suspicious of: Sally, Lommy, and Cop based on their votes. I'm going to check out their posts to get a better idea of how I feel about them.

Edit: forgot to put Lottie on my suspicious list.

Nerwen

06-03-2014, 08:48 AM

Regarding Greenie: yes, if Sally is a wolf then Greenie's vote would have looked alarmingly Seerish- but we cannot, at this point, assume that was the case. To say "wolves always try to get the Seer" is an over-simplification- it's generally the priority, of course, but not always, and often the baddies don't have much to go on early in the game.

I will also say that I don't care for the way certain players are building their suspicions toDay. Boro (#100) seems to be saying he thinks wolf-me was trying to save Sallywolf (echoing Lommy at #99) and suspects me enough to consider voting me. Then at #104 he doesn't think Greenie was killed for looking Seerish anyway but apparently still continues to suspect me for some reason, while rather suddenly switching his vote to Lottie... Maybe I'm taking this too personally! but I really don't like it.

Edit: x'd with Kit.

Kitanna

06-03-2014, 09:44 AM

Sally
First two posts were mostly banter. Though in her second post:

Originally Posted by Inziladun View Post
The Maniac is like a Hunter in that they are in with the village. Basically an Ordo with an added quantity of unpredictability surrounding their death.
That was informative, yet strangely unsettling.
Is this not the post that drew Greenie and Lommy's attention? Or at least Greenie's. I don't see anything too suspicious here, so I'm not sure why it drew attention. If this is the wrong post, let me know.

Her third post is about Lommy's plan being too risky. It's a reasonable post and one a wolf could use to show the village "hey I'm not afraid of a Maniac on the loose", could also be a villager not wanting to have a known innocent out there, especially one who is hazardous to the wolves.

Fourth post clarifies her understanding of the Maniac. She originally thought it was a more random role than Zil meant it to be.

Post five clarifies the post Greenie found suspcious enough to cast a D1 vote for. Banter and not much more.

Sixth post continues more on the Maniac and why it is smarter to stay silent.

Seventh and eighth and ninth, more banterish.

Tenth, says that people are making a bigger deal on my misinterpretation of the Maniac than it warrants. She proclaims me evil, but let's be fair that's what we do to each other. But she find Nog more evil for pushing me forward.
This post also mentions Lottie and Legate. Like I said earlier she probably didn't want to throw her vote away on Lottie or even Nog.

Twelfth, votes Legate based on her previously stated suspicions. Thjs vote is less suspicious then I originally thought. Since I think she cross-posted her vote with mine it looks like self-preservation, which an innocent is as likely to do as a wolf. So the vote tells me less than I had hoped.

What I find more odd/nefarious about her D1 posts is actually her wish not to pursue Lommy's plan. But this is a mild suspicion at best because Sally wasn't the only one to say this and there's not enough else to make me think she's evil at this point.

Nogrod

06-03-2014, 09:56 AM

Uh... Even if I did have some suspicions of Legate on D1 as well, it's sad to see him as a dead ordo as we could have had use for his mind.

About Greenie's death: without any closer scrutiny to the particulars of it, I'd remind people again (like someone did already) that the seer is the kind of "obsessive" default-target for the wolves on all times - and only if they have no clue whatsoever can they settle on a "no trail" -kill. And even going for a "trailless kill" they most probably try to sense some seerish vibes, even if very weak... So I'm going to check that possibility myself as well, later on the Day.

Also a funny / interesting note: Kitanna was concerned about the three people suspicious of Sally aka. Legate, Greenie, and Lommy. Now two of those are dead and they were ordos... Funny fact, but also makes Sally look pretty suspicious.

And by way of shortish explanation as both Kit and Boro have questioned it. I noticed that there were three people who started their posting / banter with something you might call pre-emptive self defence. It could be innocent as well, of course, but as D1's go you have to pick even every straw you can.

So when Lottie says "I'm always lynched on D1, please don't be so cruel as to do it again" (paraphrasing surely is mine), she is both reciting a fact but also laying an emotional claim on all the other players by reminding us of that fact - to not vote for her if there is a hard choice between several candidates with no better reasons (which is probable on D1).

Kitanna did more or less the same thing - even if I do have to stand corrected that she did it as a reply to Lommy's fun-scenario - but the kind of "Woe me! Not me an innocent victim again!" (paraphrasing partly mine) reaction surely is having the same effect aka. bringing an emotional level of pressure not to vote her in a case of evenish non-reasons to anyone in particular.

Now that is something a wolf would love to do - and surely, an innocent might do it as well. But it's just that some people do it and others don't. And it did catch my eye - even if it's not a big thing. A D1 piece in pile of other D1 little things you have to orient yourself with.

Legate started a bit differently, but underlining his innocence by way of banter anyway in his very first post. He turned out innocent so enough of that.

At the moment I'm more or less confused about different possibilities but will come back in the evening and try to contribute more.

EDIT: X'd with Kitanna

Nogrod

06-03-2014, 10:07 AM

Regarding Greenie: yes, if Sally is a wolf then Greenie's vote would have looked alarmingly Seerish- but we cannot, at this point, assume that was the case. To say "wolves always try to get the Seer" is an over-simplification- it's generally the priority, of course, but not always, and often the baddies don't have much to go on early in the game.I had somehow skipped this post... compare to what I said in my last post (and these are relatively close to one another).

The only thing that stops me from suggesting that Nerwen is here trying to save her fellow-wolf Sally is that it would be pretty bold to try it that openly... :rolleyes:

It is true the baddies don't always (or even usually) have much to go on early in the game, but it doesn't change the fact that they need to consider every hint however small to get the seer (and it depends then on how much time they have to make an effort to find any).

There are two totally different games for the wolves: one where there is a seer and one where there is not. In the first they can be caught by chance how witty or crafty they are, on the latter they can roam freely and it's up to their skill to win. It's a no-brainer they prefer the latter...

Nogrod

06-03-2014, 10:44 AM

I though I would only come back to this game later but then got curious about Greenie's posts enough to check them before leaving this for a while...
Sally also mostly banters this far, and calls Inzil's rules clarification "informative, yet strangely unsettling". Something there?Now that is something that stands apart from Greenie's first post which has comments on all the players. Now the formula of making a list on the very first post is among other things a seerish thing to do: if I'm dead the next Day you can go back to my first post and find my dream from there.

Clearly Greenie wasn't the seer, but that first post alone might have alarmed the wolves if Sally is a wolf. And well, she also voted Sally...

Although, her vote comes with a lot of second-guessing: I don't feel comfortable voting anyone at this point given how little has happened, but I'd feel even less comfortable abstaining. The only thing that's caught my eye so far is nothing but a hunch, but here it is - [add Sally's quote "informative, yet strangely unsettling"] - Something rubs me the wrong way here, maybe it's this being the only comment she makes on the whole Maniac issue in a post otherwise comprised of banter. Safely noncommittal, leaving ends open, casually concerned but not really. Flimsy reasoning for a vote, but better than nothing So if Sally is a wolf they are pretty nervous - and so even the way Greenie framed her vote in all this "don't feel comfortable" and "flimsy reasoning for a vote, but better than nothing" has been interpreted by them as a seer trying to cover her knowledge.

Hmm... this actually leaves me more baffled I was before I checked into this. Is Sally a wolf and they thought that Greenie overdid the backtracking of her own "revelation" on post 1 in the vote-post, or are the wolves trying to frame Sally for our second lynch, or was Greenie - and all others - so far from the wolves that none stood up for them to be even a scantly possible seer and they just took her by random?

I don't see the third one as an option. But trying to kill the seer or framing a possible D2 lynch?

I mean, if we miss it toDay and the wolves manage their kill on the Night to come it will be 5-3 toMorrow - and then it will be more or less win-or-lose with a strong voting block of three votes on one side knowing how to co-operate (it would actually take only one innocent's wrong vote for them to bring home the spoils?)...

So framing is also a possibility.

Kitanna

06-03-2014, 11:09 AM

Although, her vote comes with a lot of second-guessing: So if Sally is a wolf they are pretty nervous - and so even the way Greenie framed her vote in all this "don't feel comfortable" and "flimsy reasoning for a vote, but better than nothing" has been interpreted by them as a seer trying to cover her knowledge.

Hmm... this actually leaves me more baffled I was before I checked into this. Is Sally a wolf and they thought that Greenie overdid the backtracking of her own "revelation" on post 1 in the vote-post, or are the wolves trying to frame Sally for our second lynch, or was Greenie - and all others - so far from the wolves that none stood up for them to be even a scantly possible seer and they just took her by random?

I don't see the third one as an option. But trying to kill the seer or framing a possible D2 lynch?

It was thrown out there (by Greenie I think) that the maniac might act seerish to draw a night attack. So it is possible Greenie was just a random innocent pick who hadn't pegged them and they didn't want to risk a maniac playing as seer? Seems unlikely, but not outside the realm of possibilities.

Let's say two villagers pegged two of the wolves yesterday in their posts and voted for them. The wolves are left wondering, is one a maniac? Is one a seer? Is it just dumb luck? Obviously it's in their best interest to try to nab the seer before that person can reveal. However, if they think the maniac could be masquerading by dropping "seer" hints and just got lucky they'd be more hesitant on attacking that person. This is a stretch, a big one, because it relies on the wolves playing a "wait and see what happens" game, which could end up being pretty reckless of them if they think they have the seer.

If it was the case, it could mean Greenie really was just a random innocent. Unlikely, but not impossible.

There's also a few players who haven't really talked, who would have been good trail less kills if they went for random innocent rather than seerish. Which makes me think maybe it was a frame job?

Thinlómien

06-03-2014, 11:37 AM

If Sally, Kitanna and Nerwen are the wolves I'm likely to die of laughter. Seriously, what is this trio and their interactions? And why do they keep popping up in people's top suspects? Like, maybe even too much for them to be actually guilty, or then they are the most transparent wolf pack ever. Hmm, whatever the case, I do believe at least one of them is guilty, maybe even two.

Kitanna

06-03-2014, 12:08 PM

Lottie

First post: banter.

Second post: Says maniac shouldn't reveal. Thinks catching a wolf at Night unaware is more valuable then a known innocent. Like I said with Sally this could be a wolf tactic to say "hey, look, we need to catch wolves unaware, let me lull you into false security". But once again a lot of people said this in regards to Lommy's plan and it's mathematically impossible for everyone who didn't back the plan to be a wolf.
In this post she also sees Greenie and Lommy as innocent. Greenie because she understands the gut feeling vote, even if she doesn't share the same feeling. And for Lommy by virtue of her slight flip-flop over her plan - that could either be a wolf anxious to avoid committing to a potentially suspicious plan or an innocent genuinely concerned that her idea might not have been as helpful as it had been intended. I'd be less inclined to vote for either of them. That feels a bit like a wolf cozying up to an innocent.
Then: Legate, for no real reason, strikes me as a little suspicious. Nothing vote-worthy, but his overall tone comes across as a little too careful for my taste.

Add in Nog, who has seemed mostly fine so far, and you've got the bulk of the posters thus far. Not a whole lot to go on, so if someone would say something incriminating soon, that'd be appreciated!
Her vague feelings of Legate mimic the vague feelings of Greenie/Lommy in their Sally vote. Not like there was much to go on at this point but feelings.

Third post: Votes Legate. I've still got a bad feeling about Legate, but I don't have anything concrete, and I'm not completely comfortable voting for him. I'd be more comfortable with him than with the other three on the table, though, so...
Her vote isn't really surprising. Her "I'm not comfortable voting for him" rubs me the wrong way. I can't quite pinpoint why. It's not like her vote was really a surprise and it's not really unexpected she would vote based on a vague feeling at this point. However, something about her wording bothers me...

For today:
Her first post: I don't think the wolves necessarily thought Greenie was the Seer. More likely, in my mind, they thought she was a safe kill. Not only was she almost universally considered one of the least suspicious people, she was also heavily involved in the Maniac discussion - in such a way as might have tipped the wolves off to the fact that she was not herself the Maniac. I see more evidence for that than for a potential Seer-kill.
Solid reasoning, that falls somewhat in line with what Nog said so far from the wolves that none stood up for them to be even a scantly possible seer and they just took her by random?
And that's it so far for Lottie.

She has some time constraints, so she's been a bit sparse. When she does speak she speaks carefully, not really pointing fingers or committing to any one suspect. There's not much to go on with Lottie, but she is on my watch list for sure.

Nogrod

06-03-2014, 12:23 PM

Kitanna's softer and more open suggestions that we should interpret Greenie's death rather as a no-trace kill than an effort to kill the seer, and her softer and more open defence of Sally looks like something we should have a closer look at (like is there something already yesterDay or how Sally treats Kit, or how the voting went from the POV of them both being wolves...)

But toDay it looks like Kitanna is mainly doing those two things.

I'll be back in a few hours.

Kitanna

06-03-2014, 02:09 PM

Lommy

Post 1: Banter which includes a list of predictions about how D1 will go.

Post 2: Asks for maniac clarification, saw the role as a randomized version of the hunter.

Post 3: Puts out the idea of a maniac reveal so the village has a known innocent.

Post 4: Is clarifies on her worst case scenario from her proposed plan. Meaning by "toDay we lynch two innocents" I mean that we lynch an innocent who takes another innocent with him/her - and by the way the maniac might even take a wolf with him/her.

Post 5: After Greenie asks if it is worth it have a known innocent rather than catching a wolf as a random take down at night, Lommy backs away from her idea. Says to scratch her plan, but of course it is up to the maniac to reveal or not.

Post 6: More talk on the maniac. Says Agreed, although a known innocent the wolves can't kill is a definite asset especially towards the end of the game and could be the tie-breaker. but also says wolves probably wouldn't sacrifice one of theirs just for a known innocent.

Post 7: Responds to some of Legate's ideas/scenarios on if a maniac reveals. Also agrees with Sally that keeping the maniac around for longer is going to be a bigger threat as the game progresses.

Post 8: I need to vote soon too, and I would be mostly going by gut-feeling this early. I might follow Greenie's vote on Sally (I seem to have noticed that Sally has this "friendly and reasonable" vibe whenever she's guilty and there's a bit of that now), or Nerwen, who also just seems a bit wrong somehow, like detached. But seriously I have no idea. The ones I atm think that are innocent are Kitanna and Greenie, again gut-feeling or tone of posts mostly.
Up until this point she hadn't said much about anyone, other than to agree or disagree with points about her idea of having the maniac reveal. Nothing much, same as many others, just vague feelings as to their suspects.

Post 9: Votes Sally. Says As I'm pretty sure there will still be plenty more lynch candidates toDay, I will not make the list longer. So I vote
She had mentioned a vague gut feeling about Sally. And it looks like at this point Sally and Boro were the only two with votes. She hadn't mentioned Boro at all, so I suppose Sally isn't out of left field.

As for today:
Post 1: Speculates Greenie was killed as a potential seer. I think Greenie at least had the sort of quiet and sensible tone that often gives away gifteds If Greenie was targeted because it was believed she was the seer, then Sally could well be a wolf.

Post 2: Summarizes Greenie's posts. Points out Boro was the only one Greenie really cleared and Sally was the only one really suspected. Puts together a vote timeline, sort of the lynch - before the Legate lynch started happening, the vote count was Sally 2, Kitanna 1, Lommy 1, Boro 1 and Legate 1. 7 minutes to the deadline there was still a tie between Legate and Sally, to which Nerwen contributed by putting Kitanna too at two votes. Then Sally and Kitanna both voted Legate and it was done.
Then says based on the above voting Sally warrants a closer look.

Post 3: Responds to Boro who had made a comment about Nerwen and Sally from D1 (if I remember correctly it was something like "How did Sally end up with two votes?" followed by "Mean Finnish girls") Lommy's response to this was she didn't believe Nerwen and Sally were both wolves or if they were they were bold indeed. Or at least Nerwen was bold.

Post 4: If Sally, Kitanna and Nerwen are the wolves I'm likely to die of laughter. Seriously, what is this trio and their interactions? And why do they keep popping up in people's top suspects? Like, maybe even too much for them to be actually guilty, or then they are the most transparent wolf pack ever. Hmm, whatever the case, I do believe at least one of them is guilty, maybe even two.
:rolleyes:

Kath

06-03-2014, 02:59 PM

Here and reading ...

Nogrod

06-03-2014, 03:07 PM

You can't be kidding that no one but Kitanna posts in this thread! (kudos to Kit for that)

How are we supposed to play a game no one plays?

I need to vote in some near future and will most probably abstain from voting Kit again just because she plays - and anyway Sally looks like the better guess at the moment as she seems to be the centerpiece of the only one larger construction I can come up with (in that construction Kit is more like the one trying to lessen her guilt - and an innocent might like to go against the flow for the simple reason that the most obvious explanation could be wrong - as it certainly could).

But there are so many others in this game I'd rather hear more of to have more ideas than just these I have now - which are mostly kindled from the posts by Kit.

EDIT: X'd with Kath. Good. Someone is around.

Kath

06-03-2014, 03:27 PM

Day 1:

Interesting things:
Lommy - began the 'should the Maniac reveal' discussion. Definitely an interesting idea that merited a lot of discussion. Shares Greenie's odd feeling about sally.

Legate - I still don't follow how the Maniac revealing would have ended up with a guaranteed Day 2 wolf lynch. Would appreciated more clarity here. Shares Greenie's odd feeling about sally but says this was gut, writes pretty much the opposite in his next post and clears her.

Nogrod - said Nerwen was overly happy to start with. This struck me as odd as he didn't mention Lommy's first post where she quite literally squealed with joy! Also suspicious of Lottie and Kitanna for almost pushing the hype of their own poor history.

Shasta - doesn't like Lommy and Legate's discussion of maniac lynching, and doesn't like Kitanna ignoring what the mod said about them.

Boro - makes the first halfway useful post of the game (discussing the maniac) even though his understanding of the role was very different to mine! But then Inzil only clarified later. Unhappy with Lommy pushing for reveals.

Votes:
Greenie --> sally ~ For non-committal commenting (later explained by sally to my satisfaction)
Legate --> Boro ~ For uneasiness and because he might be able to defend himself.
Lommy --> sally ~ Presumably based on the previous odd feeling from the post.
Nog --> Kitanna ~ For being around but not contributing.
Lottie --> Legate ~ Bad feeling.
Cop --> Legate ~ Disliking the later elements of his scenarios.
Nerwen --> Kitanna ~ Potentially pushing for the maniac to join the wolves.
Kitanna --> Legate ~ Pushing sally and then voting Boro (this vote puts herself and sally clear of the lynch)
sally --> Legate ~ Choosing between Kitanna and Legate

Now what is the rule on double lynching in this game? Because this could be rather important given that, had sally chosen Kitanna there, we would have had that scenario.

Going on to toDay.

Kath

06-03-2014, 03:36 PM

Thinlómien

06-03-2014, 03:51 PM

Innocentish
Shasta - well he still needs to contribute and I really hate to use this kind of an argument, but I think he'd be more involved if he was a wolf.
Nogrod - I was a bit wary of him yesterDay but he seems better toDay, possibly because I can relate to his frustration about people being so quiet.
Kath - she's always a hard one to read early on, but I'm not too worried atm.
Copper - somehow manages to be under my radar. I don't like that, but I'm not particularily suspicious either.

Suspiciousish
Nerwen - well I don't like this whole Nerwen-Sally-Kitanna business, and Nerwen's floating around in the voting last night looks a bit fishy.
Sally - I keep flip-flopping on her, like whether I'm paranoid in thinking she acts like wolf!Sally or not, but I'm leaning guilty.
Kitanna - is quite defensive, and her interactions with the people mentioned above are fishy; there must be something going on with this trio. Still, Kitanna is probably the least suspicious of the three.
Lottie - I think I might just suspect here because others do so too, though.
Boro - something about him rubs me the wrong way. I mean, I agree with a lot of what he says, but since I suspect Sally and/or Nerwen it made me raise my eyebrows quite a bit that he suspected them quite vocally and then ended up voting Lottie.

I don't know if I've developed some homicidal tendencies, but I really wouldn't mind lynching anyone from the latter category. My preference would be one of Sally, Nerwen or Kitanna though, because my brain has kind of concentrated around them toDay and I feel like knowing one of their role might shed some light on the others.

Kath

06-03-2014, 03:55 PM

Day 2:
Cop - feels Greenie was a trailless kill. Could be, though I think the maniac discussion was probably involved. Doesn't see anything suspicious about the votes, but immediately follows with being most likely to vote sally with no explanation. Feels Kitanna and Nerwen wouldn't have shown such clear unhappiness with sally having votes if they were her packmates - fair. Votes sally for: Sally: Her reasoning on Day 1 seemed fine to me, and nothing pinged me about her tone. But, if Greenie was killed because of sounding Seerish, what she said about Sally looks the most likely. I disagree with Lommy; I don't think Greenie's wording was clear about exonerating Boro. Hmm.

Lommy - thinks Greenie's tone may have suggested giftedness, thus the kill. Then finds suggestions the wolves may have thought her the Seer, with fair reasoning. Also reached the conclusion that sally is an interesting kettle of fish. Feels it would be unlikely for sally and Nerwen to both be wolves. But doesn't like the odd trio of sally, Nerwen and Kitanna that is circling toDay.

Boro - thinks Nerwen's question about how sally got 2 votes was odd, rather clearing sally in opposition to Lommy's suspicion. Doesn't like Nog's vote as he doesn't get the reasoning. I see where Nog got the reasoning from, so this didn't strike me as oddly as it does Boro. Offers a theory that Lottie knew the three names in the voting were innocent as she didn't want to add votes to them. Says Kitanna and sally voted in the interest of self preservation. And yes, they did, but neither of them made that clear which was odd. Votes Lottie based on his earlier reasoning.

Lottie - thinks Greenie was just a safe kill.

Kitanna - thinks Lottie, Lommy, sally and Cop had suspicious votes. Ends up only mildly suspicious of sally. Feels Lottie is too careful.

Nerwen - suddenly defensive.

Nog - says Kitanna's suspicion of those who suspect sally makes sally look suspicious. Thinks Nerwen's defence of sally is too bold for wolf on wolf.

Right. Checking over any extra posts, reading my own words, then voting.

Kath

06-03-2014, 03:56 PM

Also Nog - it's always going to be lots of posts in a rush from me so just hang in there!

Kitanna

06-03-2014, 03:58 PM

Coppermirror

Post 1: Banter. First poster.

Post 2: More of the same.

Post 3 & 4: Hold nothing of value, not even banter.

Post 5: Provides her first summary of the game thus far.
For Nerwen, Lottie, and me says there's not much to go on based on what he read.
Comments on Sally's maniac ideas (maniac=timebomb, maybe it's better not to know), but doesn't really say much of her thoughts on Sally.
She declares she won't vote for Lommy. Thinks her suggestion for the maniac to reveal is questionable, but notes she did get the conversation moving.
For Legate I like Legate's reasoning for (a) and (b) in post #35, but not (c) and (b). I don't really have time to pull up how Legate's a,b,c worked right not, but essentially Cop agreed with some and disagreed with other parts. Also has this to say Takes time to explain the reasoning for his vote, which is good, but might even be slightly too careful. I'm not sure how explaining a vote is being too careful. I'd rather have an explanation to use later, then gut feelings across the board.
Not going to vote for Nog based on consistency and contribution.
Doesn't have much to say about Shasta except his logic looks sound.
Feeling relatively good about: Lommy, Nogrod
Neutral about: Sally, Shasta
No idea about: Kitanna, Lottie, Nerwen
Mildly suspicious of: Legate

Post 6: Continues where he left off
Says Greenie could be a wolf playing it safe.
Nothing to say on Kath except she won't vote on her because of her absence.
Won't vote for Boro because he got the discussion going so won't vote for him. However though she understands Boro's reasoning toward Lommy she doesn't agree.
?????: Kath.
Neutral about: Greenie, Boro
Ends by saying he'll probably vote Legate.

Post 7: Votes Legate.

Today's posts:
Post 1: Looks at Greenie's posts concludes
She doesn't seem to have strongly suspected anyone at all, and she was the first to vote and have to leave. I suppose it's possible she was a trailless kill, but I can't really believe that in a village this small. There must have been something.

Post 2: Puts up voting timeline. Doesn't see anything on the surface to point to guilt at the time of the post.

Post 3: Has this to say If Nerwen was a Moviephile trying to save a packmate Sally there, I'm not sure she would have been so obviously unhappy with the Sally vote. Same goes for Kitanna. But doesn't really indicate how she feels about Nerwen beyond a theory of what Nerwen could have done as a wolf.
Says if Greenie was killed for being seerish Sally looks like a likely wolf.
Doesn't think Lottie's idea of the wolves picking a safe, non-maniac kill makes sense. Like Nerwen doesn't really say how she feels.
Says I look consistent, not overly suspicious.
Lommy: Has been active toDay. Other than that, not a lot of change since yesterDay.
Nogrod: No posts since I last commented about him, I think.
Shasta: Ditto, and I'm worried about his lack of activity.
Kath: Also worried about lack of activity.
Still has no real feel for Boro.
Votes Sally based on Greenie possibly being a seerish kill.

Copper doesn't really commit to anyone. Cop has been very careful. She gives passes to nearly everyone, except one person, who she then votes for. Since it's only D2 I couldn't say for sure, but it seems like she is trying to stay on people's good sides and today she picks Sally, who I view as an easy target because of the likelihood Greenie was picked off as a possible seer. I can't say the same for Legate at the time of her vote, so I don't know what to think of that.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-03-2014, 03:58 PM

Shasta - well he still needs to contribute and I really hate to use this kind of an argument, but I think he'd be more involved if he was a wolf.

Don't use that. (I'm innocent, but still, don't. :p)

This game started right as I started moving out of one apartment and into another, plus an incredibly long week of work. DL for me is at 9 PM - I work from 12 AM to 8 AM and sleep right after that until about 4 PM, giving me 5-ish hours that I could split between moving and Werewolf. I just haven't had time to be here, innocent or wolf.

However, I'm all moved in now and I'm coming up on days off, so I'll be able to contribute more after the next hour or so. I'll (hopefully) have some content up before DL tonight, but I'll understand if you guys feel it would be better to modkill/replace me.

On a related note, Sally is busy today as well - she texted me and asked me to mention it (I just haven't been awake before now.)

Kitanna

06-03-2014, 04:01 PM

Says Kitanna and sally voted in the interest of self preservation. And yes, they did, but neither of them made that clear which was odd. Votes Lottie based on his earlier reasoning.

I missed a lot of posts while rereading the thread for my long post at the end of the day. I didn't realize it was a vote of self-preservation at the time. Not that changes anything. I still would have voted Legate since I wasn't convinced of Sally's guilt.

Kath

06-03-2014, 04:02 PM

From yesterDay, I think Kitanna and sally's votes are suspicious. They are both clearly self preservation votes and this is acceptable as an innocent, and understandable as a wolf. What I find odd is that neither of them actually admitted to that. :D

That Nog changed his suspicions through the Day made me feel happier about my early wonderings about him.

From my look at Greenie I think Lommy and Nerwen bear watching, but neither has leapt out as suspicious toDay to me.

Would really still like to know about double lynches as I feel that would have had a strong influence yesterDay on sally and Kitanna's voting.

And I rather feel that lynching sally or Kitanna would give more information here as a result.

There are already votes for Lottie and sally, so I will add the third name to the mix.

++Kitanna

Thinlómien

06-03-2014, 04:05 PM

I disagree with Lommy; I don't think Greenie's wording was clear about exonerating Boro.It wasn't exactly clear, but it was the clearest. I think the only other one she thought more innocent than not was me, and there she changed her opinion after I backtracked on my maniac plan. Anyway, I still think the same as in the beginning of the Day: that given Greenie's death and yesterDay's vote, we should look really hard at Sally. I have yet to see a better lynch option for toDay, however much my gut-feeling keeps flip-flopping on her.

I'll (hopefully) have some content up before DL tonight, but I'll understand if you guys feel it would be better to modkill/replace me.As long as you honestly try to post and you manage to vote, I think it's ok. Everybody is busy sometimes (this village is just so small that quiet people make me paranoid).

edit: xed with Kitanna and Kath... hmm.

Thinlómien

06-03-2014, 04:09 PM

Would really still like to know about double lynches as I feel that would have had a strong influence yesterDay on sally and Kitanna's voting.Kath dear, let me quote the rules on the admin thread:

In the event of a tie vote, the last player receiving the total is eliminated.

Thinlómien

06-03-2014, 04:14 PM

Which is something I haven't really considered - it suddenly makes it a lot less risky for wolf-on-wolf voting in the last minutes if the situation is even enough and the voted wolf hasn't still voted herself. I might or might not be talking about Nerwen and Sally. :p

Thinlómien

06-03-2014, 04:18 PM

Since you guys are quiet I will go away and think outside the box. I think I've been way too fixated on three people toDay and others have escaped my attention. With my luck Sally, Nerwen and Kitanna are all innocent and in truth we have some Nogrod-Boro-Coppermirror conspiracy. :rolleyes:

Nogrod

06-03-2014, 04:32 PM

The Sally - Kitanna + someone - scenario looks to me the most believable right now. And I'm actually willing to check on that one, with a bit more confidence on Sally's guilt than Kit's - but they'd easily fit with the same plot.

In case that backfires I'd really think Boro and Lommy might be the other story - with someone like Copper filling the third place then? But that would be a totally new scenario...

EDIT: managed to X with Lommy's last one... Nice to see the mutual ponderings for new scenarios. :smokin:

Loslote

06-03-2014, 04:36 PM

Alright, I'm back, and should be here until DL.

From yesterDay, I think Kitanna and sally's votes are suspicious. They are both clearly self preservation votes and this is acceptable as an innocent, and understandable as a wolf. What I find odd is that neither of them actually admitted to that. :D

That Nog changed his suspicions through the Day made me feel happier about my early wonderings about him.

From my look at Greenie I think Lommy and Nerwen bear watching, but neither has leapt out as suspicious toDay to me.

Would really still like to know about double lynches as I feel that would have had a strong influence yesterDay on sally and Kitanna's voting.

And I rather feel that lynching sally or Kitanna would give more information here as a result.

There are already votes for Lottie and sally, so I will add the third name to the mix.

[*highlight]++Kitanna[/highlight*]

So this caught my eye as being...off. I don't know Kath's playing style very well, but this post of hers came off as being at once flippant - "they are both clearly self preservation votes", "I rather feel lynching sally or Kitanna would give more information" - and, at the same time, almost grasping at suspicions. For one thing, her suspicions about Kit and Sally are flimsy at best, but she phrases them as though they're simple and clean-cut and obvious. She mentions Nog, Nerwen, and Lommy, but doesn't actually say anything about them - basically a "I thought they might be suspicious but I don't know" kind of statement that doesn't do anyone much good. I'm not at all happy with this vote, and Kath has definitely jumped to the top of my list.

Kitanna

06-03-2014, 04:39 PM

Boro

Post 1: Banter

Post 2: His post about the maniac being a wildcard. Until Zil's clarification I agreed with Boro that the maniac had no allegiance and since the role is to die, they could decide to draw votes or a night kill. Once Zil clarified though, this post no longer made sense, but it did move the conversation away from banter and into a long discussion about the maniac.

Post 3: Is more banter.

Post 4: Feels good about Nog, Shasta, and Greenie. Understands Legate's vote but doesn't like it. (I feel like I've a variant on that sentence a lot today) Has this to say about Lommy Lommy troubles me the most today. That "what if the maniac reveals today to give us a known innocent" business. Comes off trying to divert the topic to gifteds revealing which is rarely ever good.

Post 5: Votes Lommy.

Today:
Post 1: Thinks Sally was playing close to the vest on D1. But also questions Nerwen exchange with Sally at the end of the day.

Post 2: A look at the voting.
if Greenie was targeted because the wolves thought she was the seer, I don't see how they would have reached that conclusion from Greenie voting for sally. Based on that post, if sally is a wolf, who thought Greenie was the seer, then sally is rather paranoid in this game.
Looks like he disagreed with Lommy's vote because her reason was to not spread the vote out further.
Though Nog provided a weird explanation about his vote for me.
That is, it almost looks like Lottie knows the 3 that had votes at that point are innocent (because they're not one of her mates) and she therefor didn't care about adding another innocent (Legate) to the pile and seeing which one gets the noose.
Doesn't find Cop too suspicious at the moment, though he says she was careful not to step on anyone's toes.
Nerwen: says the reasons are in #75. And it's because of Kit's misinterpreting the maniac's role. Says also that I came up with the same interpretation so the same could apply to me in hinting to the maniac. If the wolves thought the maniac was a wild card at the beginning of the day and were trying to hint to the maniac, that would be suspicious. On my end I thought a slightly new role deserved discussion and my point got sidetracked to the maniac revealing after Inzil clarified.
Says I voted for self preservation and that if what she says about Legate dropping some early ill feelings on sally after she got a vote is true. I'm running out of time. If it's true than her reason for voting Legate, instead of sally, looks better because it would be more genuine/honest, even if Legate was an innocent.
sally: self preservation as well, and appears to have crossed with Kit's vote. Doesn't really offer an explanation in the vote, because of the DL approaching. But she did explain in an earlier post, where she thinks there's too much of a deal being made about Kit misinterpreting the maniac role, and Legate's overanalyzing with all the different scenarios.

Post 3:
Votes Lottie.

A few things. Greenie seemed to feel good about Boro, though that's not a lot to go on. However, I believe a wolf Boro would attack someone like Greenie who didn't link directly to him, but framed someone else (Sally). That's probably a long shot given the size of the village, but Boro is way to clever a wolf for me to ignore that that could be a possibility.

I need to get back to work. I may make a comment or two in the next two hours, but probably nothing in-depth until after I get home.

Nogrod

06-03-2014, 04:43 PM

But to be honest, I think it's no coincidence that both Lommy and me find Boro and Copper the next scenario - and feel that Sally & Kit are the primary suspects (I'm a bit torn by Nerwen as the third but Lommy thinks she is the third one on that scenario).

Unless Lommy is a wolf of course - and she is probably thinking vice versa. There would be a lot of fun or serious "reaching out" to be made here, but I'm probably sticking to my guns and voting Sally just looking at the most likely chances of getting a wolf (or Kit even if I'd kind of rather vote for Sally just because Kit has been a good sport).

Thinlómien

06-03-2014, 04:46 PM

Unless Lommy is a wolf of course - and she is probably thinking vice versa. There would be a lot of fun or serious "reaching out" to be made here, but I'm probably sticking to my guns and voting Sally just looking at the most likely chances of getting a wolf (or Kit even if I'd kind of rather vote for Sally just because Kit has been a good sport).Err, I'm hoping this is just great minds think alike because that's my thoughts exactly up to the point that it's creepy. :D Well, whatever happens toDay, toMorrow will be interesting no doubt.

Loslote

06-03-2014, 04:51 PM

Suspicious About
Kath - I've mentioned my problems with her vote earlier.
Coppermirror - Hasn't posted all that much, but what he has posted has been really non-committal. He voted Sally just because of Greenie's death, which could have been a wolf planning for an easy frame and not expecting the village to pass up the lure.

Unsure About
Nogrod - I don't necessarily suspect him, because he hasn't done anything suspicious, but I definitely don't trust him either.
Boro - He doesn't seem like normal Boro to me, but that might even be a sign of his innocence - he's normally a much more subtle wolf.
Nerwen - I haven't got a real read on her yet, but she certainly hasn't done anything to make me suspicious.
Shasta - I don't have a read on him. Hopefully his schedule will allow for more psychicing toMorrow!
Sally - I feel better about her than not, but I'm not willing to move her down a level just yet.

Feeling Pretty Decent About
Kitanna - I know she's been under some suspicion thus far, but I don't see the reason for it. She looks pretty good to me.
Lommy - She's looked innocent since Day One, which should maybe be worrying, but I'm comfortable with her for now.

EDIT: xed since my last

Nogrod

06-03-2014, 04:52 PM

Err, I'm hoping this is just great minds think alike because that's my thoughts exactly up to the point that it's creepy. :D Well, whatever happens toDay, toMorrow will be interesting no doubt.My thoughts exactly... :eek:

Although I'd add the factor I mentioned earlier, which is, that if we get it wrong toDay toMorrow will not be first and foremost interesting but rather scary...

Thinlómien

06-03-2014, 04:57 PM

Although I'd add the factor I mentioned earlier, which is, that if we get it wrong toDay toMorrow will not be first and foremost interesting but rather scary...As long as we don't lynch any of the gifteds it should still be decent.

Anyway, I think it's my bedtime, so

++Sally

Considering both yesterDay's vote and Greenie's death, I think it's the logical choice.

Nogrod

06-03-2014, 05:07 PM

The voting so far...

Copper -> Sally
Boro -> Lottie
Kath -> Kitanna

My view of things: the wolves killed Greenie on the grounds she was the most probable seer-candidate (aka. Sally is a wolf). Then toDay Kitanna has been consistently downplaying that interpretation by both promoting the idea that Greenie's death was a no trace kill and that Sally is more innocent than not - and she has been very active toDay trying to find any other candidates to replace the suspicions on Sally (and herself).

A good villager also takes an open-eyed look at as many others as s/he can... and like in every game; anyone you look at the right way looks suspicious - or if you are a wolf, you can make anyone look suspicious.

So unless someone comes with something that really challenges my basic idea that I think actually has some merit, then I'm going to vote for Sally.

EDIT: X'd with Lommy...

Nogrod

06-03-2014, 05:12 PM

My bedtime as well (2AM).

++ Sally

Copper -> Sally
Boro -> Lottie (1)
Kath -> Kitanna (1)
Lommy -> Sally
Nog -> Sally (3)

Kitanna

06-03-2014, 05:18 PM

Nogrod

06-03-2014, 05:24 PM

My view of things: the wolves killed Greenie on the grounds she was the most probable seer-candidate (aka. Sally is a wolf). Then toDay Kitanna has been consistently downplaying that interpretation by both promoting the idea that Greenie's death was a no trace kill and that Sally is more innocent than not - and she has been very active toDay trying to find any other candidates to replace the suspicions on Sally (and herself).Just to clarify if someone missed it...

Why Kitanna's defence of Sally or the repeated suggesting that the wolves killed Sally for a random no-trace -reasons toDay matters? Well, she really puts a lot of effort to say that - and that's exactly what a fellow wolf would do knowing what they did during the Night and seeing people getting suspicious about exactly that.

So it kind of speaks for the guilt of Sally- but even if I'm wrong about it (Kit just is consistently and deliberately thinking that Sally is the innocent person here and needs to be defended, even if somwewhat subtly to begin with = early Day) Sally still looks suspicious because of the Night-kill.

EDIT: X'd with Kitanna

Loslote

06-03-2014, 05:35 PM

You must think me a mighty foolish wolf to so blatantly defend Sally as a packmate.

I don't know if Sally is actually guilty, but I know I'm not. And I don't think Sally is a foolish enough wolf to night kill someone who leads to clearly to her. So I'm not sold on her being guilty right now.

Yes. Yes, that exactly. Everyone keeps insisting that Greenie was a Seer kill, and I don't buy it at all. If she was a Seer kill, it was a dumb move on the wolves' part - if she was a Seer kill, then the wolf would have to be Sally, and we all know that. It's obvious. It would be the most obvious Night kill a wolf could make, and I do not think Sally would have done it. You know what it could have been? An easy frame. I mentioned Cop earlier as potentially having killed Greenie during the Night with the intention of using that death to frame Sally earlier - it looks like that argument could apply to Nog and maybe even Lommy as well.

Nogrod

06-03-2014, 05:37 PM

You must think me a mighty foolish wolf to so blatantly defend Sally as a packmate. You didn't do it "blatantly". Kind of the contrary. You did it quite carefully, bit by bit - but consistently. Read your posts from the beginning of the Day (before you started searching for other candidates - piling a nice amount of analysis of other people trying to make a case for them in hopes of us turning our eyes from Sally).

I might be wrong about you. But it doesn't remove the case on Sally... Even if I do think you two have a connection, because of your posts toDay.

I don't know if Sally is actually guilty, but I know I'm not. And I don't think Sally is a foolish enough wolf to night kill someone who leads to clearly to her.That doesn't make me suspect you two less. On the contrary. The exact attitude , the view-point, you have there, looks very much like that of a wolf in distress for her mate.

It's not foolish to do away with a possible seer even if it costs one of the pack . but it is a bit foolish to stick to defend your mate...

Nogrod

06-03-2014, 05:46 PM

Everyone keeps insisting that Greenie was a Seer kill, and I don't buy it at all. If she was a Seer kill, it was a dumb move on the wolves' part - if she was a Seer kill, then the wolf would have to be Sally, and we all know that. It's obvious. It would be the most obvious Night kill a wolf could make, and I do not think Sally would have done it. You know what it could have been? An easy frame.I agree there is a chance the Night kill was a framing (I did actually suggest that scenaro myself earlier) - but Kitanna's consistent defence of Sally / suggestions it was a no-trace kill keeps me thinking it's more likely it wasn't.

But just hold on a minute. If Sally is a wolf (as I think she is), what other options did the wolves have? "Yeah, let's not kill Greenie-seer so that she can find out about us others or pronounce her dream in no uncertain terms on D2, as killing her would compromise the safety of one of us"?

And I don't think "everyone" is thinking Greenie was a seer-kill, but the wolves sure would be feeling like that...

Loslote

06-03-2014, 05:53 PM

But just hold on a minute. If Sally is a wolf (as I think she is), what other options did the wolves have? "Yeah, let's not kill Greenie-seer so that she can find out about us others or pronounce her dream in no uncertain terms on D2, as killing her would compromise the safety of one of us"?

Why would the wolves have thought she was a Seer at all? She didn't talk like a Seer. If anything, if she were a Seer, I'd read her vote post as saying in giant neon letters, "I DIDN'T DREAM SALLY THIS IS NOT A DREAM":

I really need to get some sleep now (just when things are getting interesting, how typical). I don't feel comfortable voting anyone at this point given how little has happened, but I'd feel even less comfortable abstaining. The only thing that's caught my eye so far is nothing but a hunch, but here it is -

...

Something rubs me the wrong way here, maybe it's this being the only comment she makes on the whole Maniac issue in a post otherwise comprised of banter. Safely noncommittal, leaving ends open, casually concerned but not really. Flimsy reasoning for a vote, but better than nothing, so

[*highlight]++ Sally[/highlight*]

Good night!

"Nothing but a hunch" "I don't feel comfortable voting, but I'd feel less comfortable abstaining" "Flimsy reasoning for a vote, but better than nothing" These are not the things a Seer would say if she had dreamed a wolf. These are things a Seer would say if she wanted to make sure, if she died overNight, no one would think she'd dreamed this person. I in no way find this adequate reason to kill Sally.

Nogrod

06-03-2014, 06:04 PM

I was just closing my computer and saw this.

Lottie: you should check my post #112 for a fuller discussion of that issue.

To put it short: it is the odd, standing-out and out of the blue "Something there?" in a list post (first post) by Greenie, followed by a vote with excuses that makes it look seerish - not the vote post you refer to - that makes the scenario likely.

Read the thread people. Please.

Good night.

Kitanna

06-03-2014, 06:14 PM

++Nogrod

I feel like you have been gunning for me since this game started. However today you (and Lommy) are working overtime to throw as much suspicions as you can on Sally and I. And to a lesser extent Nerwen. Why? Because of our interactions? Same can be said of the two of you.

It looks too much like you trying to push Sally out there. Maybe you're in cahoots with her and she sacrifices herself to help make you look good, to show everyone we can trust you. It looks extremely fishy to me that you have become fixated on Sally and I (and Lommy is guilty of this as well). To the point where you have barely bothered to look at anyone else. Unless you've had a dream or your're a wolf no ordo can be so sure they've made the right choice until their suspect is dead.

Also you accuse me of and she has been very active toDay trying to find any other candidates to replace the suspicions on Sally (and herself).
So you're accusing me of playing the game? Because all I did was list suspects and follow through on what I thought of them. How nefarious of me.

Loslote

06-03-2014, 06:23 PM

Lottie: you should check my post #112 for a fuller discussion of that issue.

To put it short: it is the odd, standing-out and out of the blue "Something there?" in a list post (first post) by Greenie, followed by a vote with excuses that makes it look seerish - not the vote post you refer to - that makes the scenario likely.

Now that is something that stands apart from Greenie's first post which has comments on all the players. Now the formula of making a list on the very first post is among other things a seerish thing to do: if I'm dead the next Day you can go back to my first post and find my dream from there.

Clearly Greenie wasn't the seer, but that first post alone might have alarmed the wolves if Sally is a wolf. And well, she also voted Sally...

Although, her vote comes with a lot of second-guessing: So if Sally is a wolf they are pretty nervous - and so even the way Greenie framed her vote in all this "don't feel comfortable" and "flimsy reasoning for a vote, but better than nothing" has been interpreted by them as a seer trying to cover her knowledge.

Okay. There's your post #112 (the relevant bits, anyway). Making a list is Seerish? Enough to get her killed? I don't think so. Anyway, if she were making a Seer List Post, I think she'd have committed more than just "Something there?". Something there says to me, "That caught my eye. Better watch her" not "SHE'S A WOLF I DReAMED IT". And a Seer trying to cover her knowledge? Right. So what you're saying is, "I know it doesn't look like she looked like a Seer but the wolves thought she was a Seer BECAUSE she didn't look like a Seer you know what I'm saying" and I really do think you're trying to frame Sally at this point, because this is just too weak an argument, especially from you. So...

++Nog

Loslote

06-03-2014, 06:25 PM

Copper -> Sally
Boro -> Lottie (1)
Kath -> Kitanna (1)
Lommy -> Sally
Nog -> Sally (3)
Kitanna -> Nog
Lottie -> Nog (2)

Left to vote: Sally, Nerwen, and Shasta.

satansaloser2005

06-03-2014, 06:27 PM

I am beyond exhausted today. I doubt I'll completely catch up with the thread, but I'll do what I can. Hopefully I'll be back soon. *twitches*

Shastanis Althreduin

06-03-2014, 07:12 PM

Alright. From what little I've been able to read, I'm seeing Nogrod saying there's a connection between Kitanna and Sally and Kit defending herself.

Sally is in the lead with three votes. However, I knew she wasn't going to be around today and I don't have time at the moment to delve into why there are votes on her. Kit I remember being a bit suspicious of yesterday, and voting her will tie her with Nog for second.

Reasoning - I don't want to vote Nogrod because I haven't been able to read about him at all, and I don't want to vote for Sally for the same reason (plus lynching her on a day she was going to be gone feels a bit opportunistic). The only one of the three current candidates I can in good conscience vote for is Kitanna.

++Kitanna

I'll be much more active toMorrow, should I be alive. Good luck, village.

Nerwen

06-03-2014, 07:37 PM

Here and reading. Sorry I haven't been around. (Have been at a casting call.)

satansaloser2005

06-03-2014, 07:59 PM

++Nog

Between pushing Kit so much (as I mentioned briefly yesterDay and hope to elaborate on more toMorrow if I'm still around) and the oddness of his posts, he's the best choice. I won't deny there's an element of self-preservation as well, but he's also the best suspect on such a quick and sleepy reading.

Inziladun

06-03-2014, 08:00 PM

The sun-filled sky high above was beautiful, and the sun reflecting off the white mountain snowcaps was breathtaking, but the thoughts of the people in the only man-made structure for a hundred miles were elsewhere. Debate had followed debate, accusations were made and countered. The end of the day found Nogrod to be the choice the majority of the group most feared. He was forced into RADAGAST, and button was pressed, and all crowded around to see the result.
Looking at them with what almost seemed an exasperated expression, was a badger.

The "Living"
Nerwen
Sally
Coppermirror
Loslote
Kitanna
Lommy
Shasta
Kath
Boro

The "Dead"
Professor Inzil
Legate (Ordo)
Greenie (Ordo)
Nogrod (Ordo)

IT IS NIGHT 3,

Dreamer, Guardian, and Moviephile activities may commence.

Nerwen

06-03-2014, 08:02 PM

This is a mess and I have no idea, really, plus my connection keeps going out.

++Nog
Really not sure, but I believe the whole Sally thing could be a frame, and if so...

Edit:x'd with Sally and DL.

Inziladun

06-04-2014, 08:00 PM

As Loslote lay down for sleep, tired and discouraged at the lack of progress in finding those bent on exercising their mischievous will on the others, she absent-mindedly took out a box of her favorite breath mints (http://www.tictacusa.com/en/tictacproditem/-/tictac-essence/801/304709/802) and shook a few out. As she popped them into her mouth, she had no memory of having that box out earlier at dinner, and she had not seen someone casually shaking into it a drop or two from a small vial. Before she knew what was happening, Loslote fell victim to an unnatural slumber.
When she was found the following morning, her companions sadly shook their heads. There was nothing to do but leave her as she was, and hope for the best.

The "Living"
Nerwen
Sally
Coppermirror
Kitanna
Lommy
Shasta
Kath
Boro

The "Dead"
Professor Inzil
Legate (Ordo)
Greenie (Ordo)
Nogrod (Ordo)
Loslote (Ordo)

IT IS DAY 3.

Kitanna

06-04-2014, 08:27 PM

I put a lot of thought into this and I'm pretty sure I'm going to die today given how horribly, horribly wrong I was about Nog. And I would very much like to do that on my terms.

That said. I really thought Nog was guilty. I really hoped it was true because I really wanted to be attacked in the night and get two wolves by today. That didn't happen. So I'm proposing two options for today.

1) Everyone vote for me. I take down a random voter in the event of my death, there's a chance I could bring down a wolf when I do.
The downside to this plan is that I could also bring down the ranger or the seer. So it's very risky, seeing as the village has been lucky enough to have both still alive.

2) For those who believe me when I say I'm the maniac, you let me survive as a known innocent.
The downside to this is I have a terrible track record this game of catching a wolf. So, yes you have a known innocent that the wolves wouldn't off in the night, but the best I can do as a known innocent is offer an opinion that may or may not lead to a wolf.

For those who think I am just a wolf false revealing and I am lynched today, well I suppose option one still stands. And if a wolf false reveals and is believed over me then at least the village gets a wolf tomorrow.

I don't want to be killed without giving the village the option of believing me and deciding if I'm a better asset alive or dead. It is 5-3. I obviously can't take down myself when I die, so it's really 4-3. The odds of me getting a wolf randomly aren't too much worse than me getting an innocent, bur again two of those four are gifted. Do with this information as you chose.

I am about to shut down for the night, but I will end with my suspicions.

I was wrong about Nog, so I'm probably wrong about Sally. Before I saw Lottie was dead I thought she could well be a wolf too, but once again, terribly wrong.

I think Lommy is a wolf, a wolf latching onto Nog, buddying up to him. I'll have to reread D2's posts to be sure, but I feel like she's a wolf.

Sally, I am always wrong about Sally. I still think the frame job could be possible, but since Nog died innocent I think it is way more likely Sally is a wolf.

I'm a bit torn on the last possible wolf.

There's been some off putting things I've seen of both Boro and Cop. I have no real read on Nerwen, Kath, or Shasta. Based on Shasta's vote yesterday I think he may be innocent, but once again I'll be looking over it before work tomorrow.

Nerwen

06-04-2014, 08:38 PM

Okay. In what will no doubt seem a complete about-face, I am going to state that this time I do think Lottie was probably killed as a suspected “Seer”. I believe what I said yesterDay was misunderstood: I don’t mean wolves don’t *want* to get the Seer on Night Two, but in practice they often haven’t much of a clue at that point, while by Night Three they can usually make a much better guess.

Lottiealysis to follow.

EDIT: X’d with Kit.

Nerwen

06-04-2014, 08:54 PM

1) Everyone vote for me. I take down a random voter in the event of my death, there's a chance I could bring down a wolf when I do.
The downside to this plan is that I could also bring down the ranger or the seer. So it's very risky, seeing as the village has been lucky enough to have both still alive.
??? We're 5:3. The maniac bringing down any innocent toDay would make it 3:3! It wouldn’t matter whether it was a gifted or not.

Kitanna

06-04-2014, 08:56 PM

??? We're 5:3. The maniac bringing down any innocent toDay would make it 3:3! It wouldn’t matter whether it was a gifted or not.

Oh fudge. This is why I didn't major in math. :/
I am just a hot mess this game.

Coppermirror

06-04-2014, 08:58 PM

D1 votes:

Greenie-innocent --> Sally (1)
Legate-innocent --> Boro (1)
Lommy --> Sally (2)
Nog --> Kitanna (1)
Boro --> Lommy (1)
Lottie-innocent --> Legate-innocent (1)
Cop --> Legate-innocent (2)
Nerwen --> Kitanna (2)
Kitanna --> Legate-innocent (3)
Sally --> Legate-innocent (4)

Non-voters: Kath, Shasta

D2 votes:

Cop --> Sally (1)
Boro --> Lottie-innocent (1)
Kath --> Kitanna (1)
Lommy --> Sally (2)
Nog-innocent --> Sally (3)
Kitanna --> Nog-innocent (1)
Lottie-innocent --> Nog-innocent (2)
Shasta --> Kitanna (2)
Sally --> Nog-innocent (3)
Nerwen --> Nog-innocent (4) (late)

Non-voters: nobody.

Right, I'll start by looking at just the votes without context, then I'll go and read what happened yesterDay in more detail.

The pattern of the days has gone similarly, with a cluster of scattered first votes within which Sally is the only one to get a second vote at first, at the tail end of which a single vote is cast for the person who will eventually get lynched, followed by a second vote for that person and a second vote for Kitanna, then two more votes for the person who gets lynched.

On Day 1, the one who cast the vote that got Legate lynched was Kitanna, and at the time she was in danger from a three way tie between her, Sally and Legate. To save herself, she had to break the tie, and chose Legate over Sally.

On Day 2, the one who cast the vote that got Nog lynched was Sally. To attempt to save herself by creating a tie, her options were Kitanna and Nog, and she chose Nog over Kitanna.

The only person who has voted for the same person twice was Lommy. So the overall pattern has been so similar on both days that unless Sally and Kitanna are both wolves, which at a guess is unlikely, I'm not sure what can be learned from it divorced of context. It would be interesting to look back over some past games to see if the same pattern gets repeated often.

And...I see as I write this that Kitanna's just revealed as a possible Maniac.

Edit: crossed since Nerwen at #162.

Nerwen

06-04-2014, 09:36 PM

The only person who has voted for the same person twice was Lommy. So the overall pattern has been so similar on both days that unless Sally and Kitanna are both wolves, which at a guess is unlikely, I'm not sure what can be learned from it divorced of context. It would be interesting to look back over some past games to see if the same pattern gets repeated often.
You mean we should spend hours toDay reading through multiple past games to see if… wait… what will it show, exactly, even if the same pattern does get repeated? :confused:

Coppermirror

06-04-2014, 09:58 PM

You mean we should spend hours toDay reading through multiple past games to see if… wait… what will it show, exactly, even if the same pattern does get repeated? :confused:

:rolleyes: No, I don't. I couldn't find much of interest in the vote placement in the game so far; I just find it interesting that the same pattern happened twice (that is, the pattern, not the specific people placing votes). I wouldn't mind looking up the vote placement in earlier games out of curiosity someday to see if it happens a lot, but it wouldn't be relevant to this game.

Shastanis Althreduin

06-04-2014, 11:59 PM

It's entirely possible that I missed something, but I was under the impression that the Maniac didn't know they were the Maniac. Am I wrong here?

Nerwen

06-05-2014, 12:36 AM

It's entirely possible that I missed something, but I was under the impression that the Maniac didn't know they were the Maniac. Am I wrong here?
No, Zil changed that.

In other news, I should have said we’re now 6:3, not 5:3– I was leaving myself out and thinking there were only eight players left.

But it would still make it 4:3 toNight if Maniac Kit were to take any innocent with her, and certain defeat if that innocent were the Ranger. Those aren’t great odds.

EDIT: No, we’re 5:3, and there are only eight players– I’d been looking at the Day 3 list instead of Night 3. So back to: *any* innocent killed is fatal.

Nerwen

06-05-2014, 12:46 AM

The Kit Situation

We are now 5:3.

1. Kit is a wolf and we lynch her.
We will be 5:2 toNight. The real Maniac and Ranger will be still alive.
1. a.) The Ranger makes a save toNight. We are still 5:2 toMorrow.
1. b.) The Ranger fails the save. We are 4:2 toMorrow.
1. c.) The real Maniac (having kept quiet) is Night-killed, taking down a wolf. We are 4:1 toMorrow.

2. Kit is the Maniac and we lynch her.
1. a) She takes down a wolf. We are 4:2 toNight.
1. b) She takes down an innocent. We are 3:3 toNight, thus dead.

EDIT:fixed numbers.

Thinlómien

06-05-2014, 02:24 AM

I believe Kitanna. Unless there is a counter-reveal, it makes sense to assume she's telling the truth. Even if she was a wolf, there would be two more wolves out there for us to lynch toDay. We should absolutely NOT lynch a person who is very likely to be a maniac because that can have catastrophic consequences.

Coppermirror

06-05-2014, 04:19 AM

I've looked back through the first two Days, and Kitanna's not one of the people who said they didn't know whether the Maniac was aware of their role or not (Nerwen day 1, Shasta day 3). She didn't make the mistake of thinking the role's kills were totally random (Sally day 1). It's more likely than not that the Maniac would have carefully read their role even if they didn't ask Inzil for clarification about the role's alignment. So I don't think Kitanna's claim is inconsistent with her being the Maniac.

A genuine innocent in danger would have much more reason to come forward as the Maniac toDay than a wolf in danger would to fake reveal. If Kitanna is the Maniac as she says, then if she thought she was in serious danger she would have no choice but to reveal like this, given that if there's a bad lynch toDay, we're sunk unless the Ranger makes a save in the Night or the Maniac is Night killed. Although...judging by the contents of her posts toDay, it seems she didn't realise this? So if she's the Maniac, she didn't factor that in. Still, even revealed, a Maniac is a big asset.

But if Kitanna's a wolf, she's got much less reason to come forward like this even if she thinks she's in a lot of danger. And since she said she had to leave for the night after her post, that would explain why she made the post ASAP rather than waiting until later. Her suggestion that if she isn't believed everyone should vote for her is bizarre, but I can't see what benefit she would get out of it either as an innocent or as a wolf.

I don't know if we should treat Kitanna as innocent for certain, but she's at least someone who shouldn't be lynched toDay on the information we currently have. The risk that she's telling the truth is too high.

Nerwen

06-05-2014, 04:21 AM

Ugh! Scratch what I just said– we *are* 5:3! I was looking at the wrong post before. (That’s what I get for trying to work and play WW simultaneously.)

Nerwen

06-05-2014, 04:50 AM

I've looked back through the first two Days, and Kitanna's not one of the people who said they didn't know whether the Maniac was aware of their role or not (Nerwen day 1, Shasta day 3). She didn't make the mistake of thinking the role's kills were totally random (Sally day 1). It's more likely than not that the Maniac would have carefully read their role even if they didn't ask Inzil for clarification about the role's alignment. So I don't think Kitanna's claim is inconsistent with her being the Maniac.

A genuine innocent in danger would have much more reason to come forward as the Maniac toDay than a wolf in danger would to fake reveal. If Kitanna is the Maniac as she says, then if she thought she was in serious danger she would have no choice but to reveal like this, given that if there's a bad lynch toDay, we're sunk unless the Ranger makes a save in the Night or the Maniac is Night killed. Although...judging by the contents of her posts toDay, it seems she didn't realise this? So if she's the Maniac, she didn't factor that in. Still, even revealed, a Maniac is a big asset.
A big asset to whom? If she’s the Maniac, the wolves know not to kill her at Night, while the rest of us still can’t afford to treat her as a known innocent.

But if Kitanna's a wolf, she's got much less reason to come forward like this even if she thinks she's in a lot of danger. And since she said she had to leave for the night after her post, that would explain why she made the post ASAP rather than waiting until later. Her suggestion that if she isn't believed everyone should vote for her is bizarre, but I can't see what benefit she would get out of it either as an innocent or as a wolf.

I don't know if we should treat Kitanna as innocent for certain, but she's at least someone who shouldn't be lynched toDay on the information we currently have. The risk that she's telling the truth is too high.
I concur– but that’s also why this might actually be a rather good move for a wolf under suspicion.

Anyway, I said I was going to do that Lottialysis. I had a whole lot of things come up, but maybe I can find time now.

Coppermirror

06-05-2014, 05:25 AM

A big asset to whom? If she’s the Maniac, the wolves know not to kill her at Night, while the rest of us still can’t afford to treat her as a known innocent.

An unrevealed Maniac is more valuable than a revealed one, increasingly so as the game progresses, but a revealed Maniac certainly beats a lynched Maniac, especially on a day when a bad lynch most likely means the end of the game. That said, I'm not sure that Kitanna really was in the sort of danger she thinks. I need to read over Day 2 again more carefully.

If Kitanna is really the Maniac, and she gets lynched the way she initially suggested, she's more likely to hit an innocent than a wolf. The odds aren't quite as awful as I thought at first glance, but it's still not a good idea.

Not many people have shown up yet toDay, so there's still the possibility of there being a counter-reveal from the real Maniac if Kitanna's a wolf.

Kitanna

06-05-2014, 05:31 AM

That said, I'm not sure that Kitanna really was in the sort of danger she thinks. I need to read over Day 2 again more carefully.

I was a lynch candidate D1 and D2. I was wrong about Legate. I was wrong about Nog. After that I was unlikely to be mistaken as the seer and killed in the night. It would be easy for the wolves to get me lynched today. I'd say I was in adequate danger.

Nerwen

06-05-2014, 05:54 AM

Lottie, Day One

#7. Banter.

#64. Opposes Lommy's suggestion that the Maniac reveal. Finds Greenie's vote “more innocent than not”. Lommy also seems innocent, Legate seems a little suspicious “for no real reason”. Nog seems “mostly fine”. Joking requests that some say something incriminating.

#79. Vote-post (Legate 1)
I'm really not thrilled with any of the options so far. I've still got a bad feeling about Legate, but I don't have anything concrete, and I'm not completely comfortable voting for him. I'd be more comfortable with him than with the other three on the table, though, so...

++Legate

Comments: The wording of that vote-post could well have looked like a Seer making sure no-one would think she had actually dreamed the person she voted. Only… apparently not, since the wolves killed Greenie instead.

Nothing much there otherwise– she only mentioned one still-living person (Lommy), and only in passing.

Lottie, Day Two

#103. Doubts the wolves thought Greenie was the Seer (theory already put forward by Coppermirror at #97 and Lommy at #98); believes she was instead chosen as a safe kill.

#134. Flags Kath's vote-post/suspicion list at #128.
So this caught my eye as being...off. I don't know Kath's playing style very well, but this post of hers came off as being at once flippant - "they are both clearly self preservation votes", "I rather feel lynching sally or Kitanna would give more information" - and, at the same time, almost grasping at suspicions. For one thing, her suspicions about Kit and Sally are flimsy at best, but she phrases them as though they're simple and clean-cut and obvious. She mentions Nog, Nerwen, and Lommy, but doesn't actually say anything about them - basically a "I thought they might be suspicious but I don't know" kind of statement that doesn't do anyone much good. I'm not at all happy with this vote, and Kath has definitely jumped to the top of my list.

#138. Makes a list.
Suspicious About
Kath - I've mentioned my problems with her vote earlier.
Coppermirror - Hasn't posted all that much, but what he has posted has been really non-committal. He voted Sally just because of Greenie's death, which could have been a wolf planning for an easy frame and not expecting the village to pass up the lure.

Unsure About
Nogrod - I don't necessarily suspect him, because he hasn't done anything suspicious, but I definitely don't trust him either.
Boro - He doesn't seem like normal Boro to me, but that might even be a sign of his innocence - he's normally a much more subtle wolf.
Nerwen - I haven't got a real read on her yet, but she certainly hasn't done anything to make me suspicious.
Shasta - I don't have a read on him. Hopefully his schedule will allow for more psychicing toMorrow!
Sally - I feel better about her than not, but I'm not willing to move her down a level just yet.

Feeling Pretty Decent About
Kitanna - I know she's been under some suspicion thus far, but I don't see the reason for it. She looks pretty good to me.
Lommy - She's looked innocent since Day One, which should maybe be worrying, but I'm comfortable with her for now.
Comment: Could this have been taken as a Seer’s list? It might point to either Kitanna and Lommy as innocent, or Kath and Coppermirror as wolves.

After this, she becomes very active in the “Seer-Greenie” debate.

#145.
Originally Posted by Kitanna
You must think me a mighty foolish wolf to so blatantly defend Sally as a packmate.

I don't know if Sally is actually guilty, but I know I'm not. And I don't think Sally is a foolish enough wolf to night kill someone who leads to clearly to her. So I'm not sold on her being guilty right now.
Yes. Yes, that exactly. Everyone keeps insisting that Greenie was a Seer kill, and I don't buy it at all. If she was a Seer kill, it was a dumb move on the wolves' part - if she was a Seer kill, then the wolf would have to be Sally, and we all know that. It's obvious. It would be the most obvious Night kill a wolf could make, and I do not think Sally would have done it. You know what it could have been? An easy frame. I mentioned Cop earlier as potentially having killed Greenie during the Night with the intention of using that death to frame Sally earlier - it looks like that argument could apply to Nog and maybe even Lommy as well.

#146. Emphatically disagrees with Nogrod (who at #147 suggests the kill implicates Sally
Why would the wolves have thought she was a Seer at all? She didn't talk like a Seer. If anything, if she were a Seer, I'd read her vote post as saying in giant neon letters, "I DIDN'T DREAM SALLY THIS IS NOT A DREAM”:

[Quotes Greenie]

"Nothing but a hunch" "I don't feel comfortable voting, but I'd feel less comfortable abstaining" "Flimsy reasoning for a vote, but better than nothing" These are not the things a Seer would say if she had dreamed a wolf. These are things a Seer would say if she wanted to make sure, if she died overNight, no one would think she'd dreamed this person. I in no way find this adequate reason to kill Sally.

#151. (Replying to Nog at #149, #112.)

Making a list is Seerish? Enough to get her killed? I don't think so. Anyway, if she were making a Seer List Post, I think she'd have committed more than just "Something there?". Something there says to me, "That caught my eye. Better watch her" not "SHE'S A WOLF I DReAMED IT". And a Seer trying to cover her knowledge? Right. So what you're saying is, "I know it doesn't look like she looked like a Seer but the wolves thought she was a Seer BECAUSE she didn't look like a Seer you know what I'm saying" and I really do think you're trying to frame Sally at this point, because this is just too weak an argument, especially from you. So...

++Nog

#152. Makes a tally.

And that’s it. Self-evidently, she was wrong about Nogrod. But could she have been right about Sally– i.e. could her heated defence of Sally have been taken as evidence that she’d dreamed her (innocent)? Or were we meant to think that (and something on the list is the real reason)?

EDIT:formatting.

satansaloser2005

06-05-2014, 06:44 AM

I'm on my way to work for the day. I haven't had a chance to read a thing, but I'll do so when I return four hours or so before the DL. *poofs*

Boromir88

06-05-2014, 06:58 AM

It's going to be another one of those days where I have to vote early...although not as early as the last day.

Thoughts are...I believe Kit's reveal. It's a must to get a wolf today but at least there's still all 3 gifteds to work and I think at this point in the game it is best to have a revealed maniac. It's not ideal but best when we need to get a wolf today.

Thinlómien

06-05-2014, 07:18 AM

Before anybody votes (and since I don't know when I will be online toDay), I guess I'm obliged to step in.

I'm the seer.

Nerwen is a wolf.

Shasta is innocent.

Kitanna is indeed the maniac.

If you want clues, go back to my very first post. The very first thing I say is "first things first". I have been following that rule and started every Day by mentioning first the person I just dreamt of (Nerwen on Night1, Shasta on Night2 and Kitanna last Night). I even applied this to my list post yeterDay because I was afraid I was being too vague.

Thinlómien

06-05-2014, 07:20 AM

Oh, and, not voting yet in case something unexpected happens (remember guys, the last one to get the most votes dies if there's a tie).

Kitanna

06-05-2014, 07:38 AM

I'm the seer.

Nerwen is a wolf.

Shasta is innocent.

Kitanna is indeed the maniac.

I was beginning to wonder if you might be the seer because you voted Sally two days in a row and I don't know why a wolf would do that. But you say Nerwen is a wolf, you have put her on all your suspect lists. So either you're trying to fool us or you didn't want the wolves to figure you out right away. Both are logical explanations for not voting Nerwen. I'm going to look over your posts before work to see if I trust your claim. I want to believe because it means you can remove doubt about me.

Thinlómien

06-05-2014, 07:48 AM

I was beginning to wonder if you might be the seer because you voted Sally two days in a row and I don't know why a wolf would do that. But you say Nerwen is a wolf, you have put her on all your suspect lists. So either you're trying to fool us or you didn't want the wolves to figure you out right away. Both are logical explanations for not voting Nerwen. I'm going to look over your posts before work to see if I trust your claim. I want to believe because it means you can remove doubt about me.If Sally is actually innocent, I'm probably going to die laughing. I simply thought she looks a lot like a wolf, and I didn't want to draw attention to myself by voting Nerwen on Day1. I also preferred multi-tasking ie. going after different people at Day and Night, so I didn't check Sally on Night2 but instead Shasta. Last Night my choice was between Sally and you, and I thought knowing your role would have been more helpful. Turns out it was the other way around. That being said, I'm not actually so suspicious of Sally anymore. I will need to look at Nerwen's interactions with people later toDay.

Boromir88

06-05-2014, 08:46 AM

See as grim as it started there's always payoff when the gifteds aren't lynched and can stay off the wolves radar.

I wish I would have voted for Nerwolf yesterday, but I was only able to base my suspicions off iffy or bad Day 1 votes. Not that it would have made a difference, based on how things went yesterday. My previous post was the first chance I had to get back to the thread since my Day 2 vote. So, I really have no idea who voted for who nor how Nog got lynched.

Just glad we can still manage a win, even though it's unfortunate you, Lommy, had to reveal to give us a wolf and get us to stop lynching eachother.

Kitanna

06-05-2014, 09:26 AM

I have twenty minutes before work starts and I'm going to use that time to throw out some theories since I can't reread the thread as I planned.

Sally
I find it funny my opinion of Sally is based entirely on what others have said and how they've interacted with her. Sounds like she's pretty busy with RL so her contribution hasn't been much and both her votes have been self-preservation which is something an innocent and a wolf would do, so it's hard to get much from that.

So with Sally I feel 90-10 about her guilt. Lottie made a point yesterday about Greenie not really dropping hints in her posts, or at least not concrete hints. To me Greenie's death looked like a frame job to set up Sally. She'd already fallen under some suspicion and if her first voter died, she would look very bad indeed. Also I agree with Nerwen about Lottie's death being because she looked seerish, which makes Sally look very good. There's also Lommy's claim, if she is to be believed, if Sally was a wolf I feel that Lommy would have been killed. Hence the 90% she could well be innocent.
The 10% of doubt comes from Greenie's death and the chance it could have been a risk the wolves took and agreed to make Sally a sacrifice. If Greenie was the seer Sally would surely have been lynched yesterday and if she died an ordo (as she did) some would think Sally was framed and some would think Greenie was targeted for voting Sally. Which is how yesterday played out and Sally saved her skin by voting Nog, which again, any player would do. However, Lottie's death makes no sense in this scenario, given how Lottie defended Sally.

Lommy
As for Lommy. It makes sense she would want to fly under the radar as a seer. Drop a few unspecific hints and vote elsewhere. Her posts/hints need to be looked at, so when my break rolls around I'll take a look. I am surprised she voted Sally both days though. I see her logic (once again flying under the wolf radar), but I can't remember her reasoning yesterday for voting Sally. I know on D1 she said she didn't want to spread the votes out too much and I believe yesterday she was on the same page as Nog with suspects, which is probably why she voted Sally again. So she votes Sally twice, which to the wolves would look like a misguided innocent. But if she is a wolf she could be trying to throw a packmate under the bus to look good or she's trying to destroy an innocent who has garnered a lot of attention. The wolf scenario seems unlikely, seems a bit risky for a D1 vote, less so on D2 though.

Boromir88

06-05-2014, 10:42 AM

I don't have anymore time to be of more use today. All I can say is even if there are counter reveals to Lommy and Kit I would bet their fake. Based on how the lynches and days have gone, if Lommy and/or Kit were wolves there is no reason or need they would try this scheme to false reveal at the start of the day.

++Nerwen

Kitanna

06-05-2014, 11:37 AM

Day 1

Okay, now that I got it off my chest, I'm off to business. What business, you may ask, as there's been nothing but banter and Nerwen jokingly reviving the tradition of suspecting those who post first.

So let me make a couple of predictions about how the Day1 will proceed after this utterly typical beginning:

Nerwen will miss the vote.
Kath will miss the entire Day.
Legate will get into posting novel-length stuff by the deadline.
Loslote (or Kitanna) will be lynched.
Nogrod will be uncharacteristically quiet (okay, you can't really credit me with being a psychic if I get this right, I happen to know he has a busy day in RL).
Speaking of psychics, Shasta will use half of his posts for praising Nerwen (and vice versa, but he always seems to be the one to start).

I'm not sure what to make of Boro's and Nogrod's underlined worry about wolves posing as the maniac. How do you do that except by fake revealing anyway? (And I see that as possibly being more beneficial to the villagers in the long run

I might follow Greenie's vote on Sally (I seem to have noticed that Sally has this "friendly and reasonable" vibe whenever she's guilty and there's a bit of that now), or Nerwen, who also just seems a bit wrong somehow, like detached.

Votes Sally

Day 2

Only one post and it' almost 7 hours into Day2? Come on people. (I'm especially looking at you, Shasta.)

I think Greenie at least had the sort of quiet and sensible tone that often gives away gifteds (even though ordos who are not the type to intentionally stir the pot or stream of consciousness post *coughyourstrulycough* might often give that vibe too.)***

Yeah, although I'm not sure both Sally and Nerwen are wolves, if yes, they are quite bold, or Nerwen at least is quite bold.

If Sally, Kitanna and Nerwen are the wolves I'm likely to die of laughter.

Innocentish
Shasta - well he still needs to contribute and I really hate to use this kind of an argument, but I think he'd be more involved if he was a wolf.
Nogrod - I was a bit wary of him yesterDay but he seems better toDay, possibly because I can relate to his frustration about people being so quiet.
Kath - she's always a hard one to read early on, but I'm not too worried atm.
Copper - somehow manages to be under my radar. I don't like that, but I'm not particularily suspicious either.

Suspiciousish
Nerwen - well I don't like this whole Nerwen-Sally-Kitanna business, and Nerwen's floating around in the voting last night looks a bit fishy.
Sally - I keep flip-flopping on her, like whether I'm paranoid in thinking she acts like wolf!Sally or not, but I'm leaning guilty.
Kitanna - is quite defensive, and her interactions with the people mentioned above are fishy; there must be something going on with this trio. Still, Kitanna is probably the least suspicious of the three.
Lottie - I think I might just suspect here because others do so too, though.
Boro - something about him rubs me the wrong way. I mean, I agree with a lot of what he says, but since I suspect Sally and/or Nerwen it made me raise my eyebrows quite a bit that he suspected them quite vocally and then ended up voting Lottie.

that given Greenie's death and yesterDay's vote, we should look really hard at Sally. I have yet to see a better lynch option for toDay, however much my gut-feeling keeps flip-flopping on her.

Which is something I haven't really considered - it suddenly makes it a lot less risky for wolf-on-wolf voting in the last minutes if the situation is even enough and the voted wolf hasn't still voted herself. I might or might not be talking about Nerwen and Sally.

Votes Sally again

These are the selected writings of Lommy. I picked these because they listed her suspects/made mention of her dreams. She was consistent from D1 that Nerwen felt wrong. She was very, very careful in how she accused Nerwen. Lots of gut-feelings and throwing Nerwen's name in with mine or Sally's, but almost never Nerwen alone.

***I bolded this quote because it looks very much to me like Lommy trying to distance herself from having a gifted role. "Look I'm an ordo who plays in such a way to attract attention for being gifted..."

All this makes me feel Lommy is most probably not lying. And if she is I will retire from WW having been fooled so thoroughly. ;)

Kitanna

06-05-2014, 01:54 PM

So...just me in the village right now?

I don't have as much time to go back right now as I would like, but I'll have more time when my lunch break rolls around in a few hours. So, just some thoughts to break up the silence.

Yesterday I said Cop never really committed to any suspects, except for who she votes for. Today she gives us the vote count and some thoughts on the tie-breaking votes that occurred both days
So the overall pattern has been so similar on both days that unless Sally and Kitanna are both wolves, which at a guess is unlikely, I'm not sure what can be learned from it divorced of context. It would be interesting to look back over some past games to see if the same pattern gets repeated often.

And...I see as I write this that Kitanna's just revealed as a possible Maniac.
Also talks about going back some day looking over old games to see if a similar pattern ever occurred. She said this was just out of sheer interest, but the comment seems weird, though not especially nefarious. Just sort of pointless.

She questions my reveal most logically though. Which is good I think, given that blind faith can be very alarming and seen easily as a wolf piggy backing on a gifted reveal.

Her suggestion that if she isn't believed everyone should vote for her is bizarre, but I can't see what benefit she would get out of it either as an innocent or as a wolf.
To clarify hen I looked at the numbers I only looked at them as far as the end of today. I never factored in the night kill and the resulting lost innocent. I only thought on the possibility that lynching me could get us a wolf, not the doom that could follow if I took down an innocent.

It doesn't look like Cop has been back since Lommy's reveal.

My opinion of Cop remains pretty much the same as yesterday. Somewhat suspicious, but not enough to warrant a vote at this time. We'll see what happens later...

Boro is another mystery to me. He's clever, especially as a wolf. Yesterday I said a wolf Boro could want to make a kill that didn't link him to the victim in a seerish way. Greenie didn't really suspect him, so that's a good kill. Lottie I don't think really had an opinion of him either.

Boro is also quick to believe both Lommy and I. Wishful thinking of an innocent? Or a piggy backing wolf? He's a crafty one and I've seen him do some pretty astounding things as a wolf. Like Sally though, he is pretty absent due to RL and it makes it harder for me to form a solid opinion since he's not really around.

If Lommy is telling the truth Shasta is innocent. And honestly, if she's lying I'd think he was innocent anyway after his vote yesterday.

That leaves Kath. We have a pretty busy village as far as RL goes. So her lack of posting doesn't bother me, but she has barely registered on anyone's radar. She's just this submarine, popping in, offering some opinions, voting, and gone. And she missed D1 vote, so we have only D2 vote. On lunch I'll look at her posts for a clue.

Kitanna

06-05-2014, 02:33 PM

Kath
Her first post was agreeing with Legate's assessment of the maniac role. And to prove Lommy's prediction wrong. And that's it for D1.

D2 her first post was "here and reading." Second post was summing up D1. Her third post analyzes Greenie's posts.
Nerwen and Lommy are the names that came up here so keep an eye on them toDay I suppose.
Her next post is mostly more summaries. She offers a few comments outside of her summary.
Cop - feels Greenie was a trailless kill. Could be, though I think the maniac discussion was probably involved.
(About Boro)Doesn't like Nog's vote as he doesn't get the reasoning. I see where Nog got the reasoning from, so this didn't strike me as oddly as it does Boro.
(Also in referral to Boro)Says Kitanna and sally voted in the interest of self preservation. And yes, they did, but neither of them made that clear which was odd. Votes Lottie based on his earlier reasoning.

Then her vote post.
From yesterDay, I think Kitanna and sally's votes are suspicious. They are both clearly self preservation votes and this is acceptable as an innocent, and understandable as a wolf. What I find odd is that neither of them actually admitted to that.

That Nog changed his suspicions through the Day made me feel happier about my early wonderings about him.

From my look at Greenie I think Lommy and Nerwen bear watching, but neither has leapt out as suspicious toDay to me.
So if Kath is a wolf she could have been using Nerwen to make herself look good, but saying she saw her suspicious. Then if Nerwen was lynched and died a wolf, Kath would have that slight suspicion on record. The same could be said to be true if Sally died a wolf.
She ended up voting me.

Also interesting to note is something Lottie said that I missed
So this caught my eye as being...off. I don't know Kath's playing style very well, but this post of hers came off as being at once flippant - "they are both clearly self preservation votes", "I rather feel lynching sally or Kitanna would give more information" - and, at the same time, almost grasping at suspicions. For one thing, her suspicions about Kit and Sally are flimsy at best, but she phrases them as though they're simple and clean-cut and obvious. She mentions Nog, Nerwen, and Lommy, but doesn't actually say anything about them - basically a "I thought they might be suspicious but I don't know" kind of statement that doesn't do anyone much good. I'm not at all happy with this vote, and Kath has definitely jumped to the top of my list.
If the wolves thought Lottie was seer based on her defense of Sally, I wonder if they noticed this and thought perhaps Lottie had dreamt Kath as well?

There's not a whole lot to say about Kath otherwise.

Kath

06-05-2014, 02:34 PM

I have an extremely fragile net connection (first time I've managed to get a connection at all today!) so I am going to vote right now.

As there have been no counter reveals to either Lommy or Kitanna, and I think everyone has now posted, I am happy to believe both.

Therefore:
++Nerwen

Lommy-Seer says she's a wolf then she's a wolf.

If Lommy and Kitanna are actual a wolf pack then I take my hat off to them!

Thinlómien

06-05-2014, 03:28 PM

(leaving out myself, Kitanna and Shasta, as well as the dead, for obvious reasons)

~*~

Nerwen and Boro

Day 1 - Nerwen jokingly points out the rule of three would condemn Boro. Discussion about Nerwen's broken banter link.

Day 2 - Boro starts the Day by saying that not only Sally's but also Nerwen's actions before the DL on Day1 look fishy. He mentions her in a voting recap. Then he mentions again that her vote did not sit right with him and that it's unlikely she and Sally are in cahoots. (At this point, I personally found it weird he voted Lottie not Nerwen, because he had been talking about Nerwen being suspicious from the beginning of the Day.) Nerwen retaliates by pointing out various illogical/fishy things Boro has said on the same Day.

Day 3 - after my reveal, Boro says he wishes he had voted Nerwen the Day before and votes her now.

Thoughts: Like I said above, I find it a little fishy that Boro didn't go for Nerwen on Day2 even though she seemed like his main suspect until he decided that Lottie's vote the Day before looked worse after all. They don't still do each other much favours on Day2, but that hardly tells us anything as both of them are capable of much more dramatic wolf-on-wolf backstabbing.

~*~

Nerwen and Cop

Day 1 - Nerwen points out the rule of three would condemn Cop. They banter. In a list post, Cop says there's not much to go on on Nerwen and files her under "no idea about".

Day 2 - Cop says it's unlikely Nerwen is packmates with Sally because she defended her so openly.

Day 3 - Discussion about voting patterns, and a longer discussion about Kitanna's maniac reveal.

Thoughts: There is a lot of easy chatter between the two, as if they were on especially amiable terms, for example chatting with each other during Night phases and simply continuing that on the thread. (Before you say this sounds far-fetched, I say it's happened before.) It could of course just be normal chatter between two people who get along (possibly because Nerwen's trying to buddy up with Cop) and/or happen to be around at the same time when not so many others are.

~*~

Nerwen and Sally

Day 1 - Nerwen jokingly points out the rule of three would condemn Sally. Sally half-seriously encourages Nerwen to break her track record of not voting on Day1. Nerwen wonders why Sally has two votes and Sally points the finger at me and Greenie. Nerwen would rather not see Sally lynched and ergo votes Kitanna. Sally makes fun of her not formatting the vote right.

Day 2 - Nerwen basically says that Greenie's death points at Sally, but doesn't. Suggests Sally was framed.

Day 3 - nothing yet.

Thoughts: what the mordor?? This makes me more confused than anything else. Either Nerwen is artfully latching onto innocent Sally to a) make herself look better if Sally dies and is discovered innocent or b) make Sally look suspicious if Nerwen herself dies and is discovered guilty, or then these are two wolves hiding out in the open. I'm almost more inclined to think the first option is true.

~*~

Nerwen and Kath

Day 1 - Nerwen expresses shock about Kath being active on Day1.

Day 2 - In a voting recap, Kath says about Nerwen: "Nerwen --> Kitanna ~ Potentially pushing for the maniac to join the wolves." Kath, can you clarify what you mean by this comment? Kath also concludes that Greenie's death points at Nerwen but doesn't really explain why and says that she became suddenly defensive on Day2.

Day 3 - Kath believes my reveal and votes for Nerwen.

Thoughts: hmmm, interesting. Nerwen says practically nothing about Kath. Kath throws very vague suspicion at Nerwen's direction, but definitely doesn't act on it. Looks fishy to me all in all - but no one says this can't be coincidence.

~*~

next up: a look on Lottie's death

Thinlómien

06-05-2014, 03:50 PM

Last Night, the wolves must have been pretty desperate to get the seer (a big :p at you) because without an effective seer reveal, they would have been close to a victory. Therefore, I'm going to assume Lottie was killed because they thoughts she was the seer.

Lottie's possible Night 1 dreams based on Day1 posts
Me = innocent -> works because I was in her innocent category on Day2 and she made a point of saying that I have looked innocent since Day1
Greenie = innocent -> works because she died before Lottie could say more about her
Nog = innocent (this is a stretch though) -> disproved by her vote on Day2
Legate = guilty -> can't be because he was an ordo

Lottie's possible Night 2 dreams based on Day2 posts
Kath = guilty
Cop = guilty
Kitanna = innocent
All of these work in relation to Lottie's list (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=691706&postcount=138)on Day2. She defends Kitanna in a way that the wolves could have seen as the seer protecting a known innocent, but I think it's more likely that their interest was piqued by what she said about Kath or Cop (why else would Lottie stand out to the wolves?). In this regard, Kath looks a little worse than Cop because:
So this caught my eye as being...off. I don't know Kath's playing style very well, but this post of hers came off as being at once flippant - "they are both clearly self preservation votes", "I rather feel lynching sally or Kitanna would give more information" - and, at the same time, almost grasping at suspicions. For one thing, her suspicions about Kit and Sally are flimsy at best, but she phrases them as though they're simple and clean-cut and obvious. She mentions Nog, Nerwen, and Lommy, but doesn't actually say anything about them - basically a "I thought they might be suspicious but I don't know" kind of statement that doesn't do anyone much good. I'm not at all happy with this vote, and Kath has definitely jumped to the top of my list.

So, I think the wolves could have seen Lottie as a potential seer who dreamed of innocent!me (or innocent!Greenie) on Night 1 and guilty!Kath (or guilty!Cop - or even innocent!Kit) on Night2.

The fact that Nerwen's lottielysis toDay interprets her posts so that she dreamed of innocent Kitanna makes me more certain that either Kath or Cop has to be guilty, or possibly even both - why else would Nerwolf pass such an obvious opportunity to cast suspicion on them?

Thinlómien

06-05-2014, 03:55 PM

In conclusion:

Kath and Cop look pretty bad at the moment.

Boro could just as well be guilty as innocent.

Sally actually probably looks the best out of the four at the moment. If she is innocent, I want to offer my most cordial thanks for unwittingly acting as my shield. :D

satansaloser2005

06-05-2014, 04:19 PM

If she is innocent, I want to offer my most cordial thanks for unwittingly acting as my shield. :D

You're welcome, peaches. <3

I'm back (more or less) and have caught up (more or less).

I see no reason to doubt Lommy's reveal at this point; despite her odd suspicion of me Day 1, I found her pretty innocent throughout. I suspected up front that Kit's trust in me was a result of either her really playing me or some sort of good role, so to find she's the maniac is not at all a shock. Nerwen is, of course, always evil. ;)

++Nerwen

Now that the vote is out of the way, I'll take a look at the unknowns in the group. Hopefully I'll be back in a short while with some equally short thoughts.

Kitanna

06-05-2014, 04:29 PM

I suspected up front that Kit's trust in me was a result of either her really playing me or some sort of good role, so to find she's the maniac is not at all a shock. Nerwen is, of course, always evil. ;)

I think this is the first time in our long WW history I have not assumed you're evil and worked to get you lynched. Or been a wolf myself and worked to get you lynched. And if you do happen to be evil this game I know I need to continue to work at getting you lynched. <3

++Nerwen

It is a beautiful day and I am going to enjoy a walk on my lunch break and I really don't have anything to say that I haven't said already. I may pop in again before Day ends, but it's unlikely since I am not going home after work until after DL.

Thinlómien

06-05-2014, 04:41 PM

I need to go to sleep now, so

++Nerwen

If she decides to counter reveal and anybody believes her even a tiny bit, do a little maths and you'll see that if I was a wolf, it would have made zero sense for me to fake reveal toDay (the decisive Day is only toMorrow and I would be certain to get lynched then) - unless I was in cahoots with Nerwen herself (which still supports lynching her toDay) and that would've been quite an unnecessary plot as if the village would mislynch toDay there would be a huge chance of wolf victory toMorrow (only one innocent votes wrong and that's it) whereas now we would be just prolonging the game, perhaps fatally for the baddies, as it would be very suspicious if I didn't die soon.

(Now I'm lost in what if scenarios. Imagine if Nerwen, Kitanna and I were the wolves and we had orchestrated all of this. It would have been so epic I almost wish that was the case. :D)

Okay, going now. May we all have sweet dreams.

PS. If there's an unforeseen misfortune and I die toNight, please please look carefully at Nerwen's interactions with people and Lottie's death, my posts toDay are a good place to start.

Nerwen

06-05-2014, 07:07 PM

Aw Lommy, you double-crossing penguin, why are you doing this to me? I thought we agreed last Night I was going to impersonate the Seer and you were going to be lynched! Meanie!:mad:

Coppermirror

06-05-2014, 07:10 PM

Back and reading.

Coppermirror

06-05-2014, 07:40 PM

It doesn't look as if Shasta's been back since Lommy's seer-reveal, so there's a chance that he could be the Seer, but it's unlikely: a Lommy wolf would have had to be taking an insane risk that he wouldn't happen to come by, unless she knew something about his schedule. Plus, this sort of plan from the wolves on a day with a 5:3 count doesn't make sense. If it turns out to be some sort of amazing gambit from Lommy and Kitanna, and Nerwen at #196 is a peeved innocent trying to add suspense, I'll be very impressed.

So the remaining wolves are two of Boro, Kath, and Sally. Boro and Sally have at least posted a reasonable amount. Kath, not so much.

It looks as if my vote isn't needed, but I'll still place it.

++Nerwen

Inziladun

06-05-2014, 08:00 PM

After the discouraging time the group had spent thus far atop the lonely windswept peak, this day had possibly brought some good news.
Kitanna had initially startled them by saying she was a maniac.
'Not dangerous. Well maybe a little. Actually, mostly harmless,' she was quick to add. 'I just get carried away (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJoM7V54T-c)sometimes.'

But that had nearly been forgotten when Lommy had announced she had been having dreams involving them all.
'I know two who are innocent,' she said. 'Shasta for one, and Kitanna really is a maniac, but she hasn't been doing anything to anyone. However, I know Nerwen is one of these awful people trying to take us out!'

It was recalled that Professor Inzil's notes on RADAGAST had mentioned that those with evil thoughts had become dogs. Now they would see.

Protesting only mildly, Nerwen was forced into the machine. A press of a button, and eager eyes awaited the result.
There, on the floor, was indeed a dog (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Cattle_Dog#mediaviewer/File:ACD-blue-spud.jpg).

The "Living"
Sally
Coppermirror
Kitanna
Lommy
Shasta
Kath
Boro

The "Dead"
Professor Inzil
Legate (Ordo)
Greenie (Ordo)
Nogrod (Ordo)
Loslote (Ordo)
Nerwen (Moviephile)

IT IS NIGHT 4.

Dreamer, Guardian, and Moviephiles get busy.

Inziladun

06-06-2014, 08:00 PM

The dark skies above the facility were fitfully illuminated by the bright, full moon peeking through breaks in the high clouds.
Inside, most of the trapped inhabitants lay fitfully sleeping. Three of their number did not sleep.
Two figures walked silently, purposefully toward their intended target, one with a small vial of liquid in hand. They did not feel the eyes upon them, straining to keep them in sight through the shadow, nor did they notice footfalls behind them at a respectful distance.
As they reached their victim they stopped short, savoring the moment. The vial was opened, a hand began to tip it.
Suddenly, a silver ball flashed through the air and struck the back of the second figure. A stifled cry of surprise was voiced, and the first quickly secured the vial. Both ran off into the darkness.
The firer of the ball nodded in approval at the way the improvised slingshot had worked. It was amazing what one could do with a paper clip, a rubber band, and a ball bearing.
Heading back to bed, two of the group were bitterly disappointed, another quite satisfied.

The "Living"
Sally
Coppermirror
Kitanna
Lommy
Shasta
Kath
Boro

The "Dead"
Professor Inzil
Legate (Ordo)
Greenie (Ordo)
Nogrod (Ordo)
Loslote (Ordo)
Nerwen (Moviephile)

IT IS DAY 4

Thinlómien

06-07-2014, 05:09 AM

*waves at everyone* I'm still here!

And no discussion before I appear, because the wolves don't want to incriminate themselves by blaming soon-to-be revealed innocents or buddying up with soon-to-be revealed wolves.

Guess what people? I think I'm going to leave you in the darkness for a little while longer. Anyone who wants to prove their innocence, I encourage you to talk. You have nothing to fear if you're not a wolf.

(I understand the quietness toDay and yesterDay, because a revealed seer doesn't encourage much talk, but all in all it's been a disappointingly quiet village. Next time we're not lynching Legate on Day1 and Nogrod on Day2. Just sayin'. :p)

(Also, unrelatedly, I really want to laugh at myself in this game. I might have done my seering well, but my argumentation has had gaping holes. On Day1, I suggested the maniac reveal herself, totally forgetting that it means the maniac cannot Night-kill a wolf. YesterDay, I said my reveal being fake would only make sense if we were fellow wolves with Nerwen, totally forgetting that the real seer would still exist and be able to contest my claim. Not really my game, logic wise. :D)

I will be more or less around (meaning, checking the thread at least say every two hours) until as close to the DL as I feel like staying up. If you need a talking prompt, please tell me who do you think like a likely mate for Nerwen, for example.

Galadriel55

06-07-2014, 07:43 AM

*waves at everyone*

*waves back*

*fades into darkness*

PS: you know I had to at some point in the game. ;)

Kitanna

06-07-2014, 07:53 AM

I don't have much to say. Not a lot happened after I stopped posting yesterDay.

I still think Kath is a wolf and I will probably be voting for her. I'm leaning toward Cop being the third, but I haven't ruled out Boro yet. I believe Sally is probably an innocent. And you, Lommy, have cleared Shasta.

Thinlómien

06-07-2014, 08:00 AM

Just saying you guys should let me know if you plan on voting early.

Kath

06-07-2014, 09:55 AM

Quiet I have indeed been, but I will be in a place with secure internet access within the next hour or so, and can then be around pretty much until deadline.

Before then, to give you an idea of where my mind is: I am obviously happy that Lommy is the Seer; Kitanna revealed as the maniac after I had cast my vote for her, but I accept she has that role; I am innocent.

So my suspicions toDay will clearly focus on sally, Cop, Shasta and Boro.

Kath

06-07-2014, 09:57 AM

Ooh no I'm wrong! Shasta was also cleared by Lommy-Seer.

So it's just Boro, Cop and sally.

Kath

06-07-2014, 09:58 AM

And two out of those three are wolves! Well that's better odds!

Thinlómien

06-07-2014, 10:55 AM

Sorry for toDay, I just realised there's no need to play around.

I dreamed of Boro who is a wolf.

That leaves us with three unknowns, Kath, Cop and Sally. One is a wolf, one is an ordo and one is the ranger.

So:

Day4 we lynch Boro-wolf.

Night5 seer-me is killed. The ranger should not protect ordo-Shasta.

Day5 we have one wolf, one known ordo (Shasta), one unknown ordo, known maniac (Kit) and unknown ranger. The ranger reveals. That means that either
a) the wolf also reveals as the ranger and is lynched
b) the wolf also reveals as the ranger and the real ranger is lynched
c) the wolf doesn't try to reveal as the ranger

Now if
a) we obviously win.
b) there is Night6. The wolf obviously kills Shasta. On Day6 there is the wolf, one ordo and Kit the Maniac. The ordo left and Kit know to lynch the wolf because she's obviously the one who claimed to be the ranger on Day5. We win.
c) we have one more known innocent on Day5. There are only two people whose roles are unknown. Say we're unlucky and lynch the ordo. The next Day there is only one unknown ergo only one one person who can be the remaining wolf and she's lynched. We win.

(Even if the last wolf decides to off say Shasta next Night instead of me in order to create chaos and I dream of an innocent, we still have enough dreams and Days to sort it out even with the worst of luck. We win.)

So game over wolvsies, well done in hiding but you shouldn't have let me live so long. *tries to resist gloating and fails*

++Boro

Boromir88

06-07-2014, 11:24 AM

Drat...just when I was going to say "Get on with it Lommy, admit you dreamed me and declare that I'm 100% trustworthy and cleared with the most honorable of intentions. Leaving just Cop, sally, and Kath unknown."

Well at least you saved me a bit of time. Sorry to my mates, upheaval and last minute changes meant my schedule got tossed around and I wasn't quite as sharp as usual. Still it's been a pleasure and good fun to enjoy another game. I felt quite good and energized during the day...much more than I've had recently. So until next time...cheers.

satansaloser2005

06-07-2014, 11:35 AM

Ooh no I'm wrong! Shasta was also cleared by Lommy-Seer.

So it's just Boro, Cop and sally.

And two out of those three are wolves! Well that's better odds!

Very nearly right! Two out of Boro, Kath, and Cop are wolves! Splendid indeed! ;)

Anyway, I'm terribly sorry about yesterDay. I should be here for most of the rest of toDay, though I see Lommy has done the bulk of the work again. My sweet prince, how could you?

Of Kath and Cop, one is gifted, and one is a wolf. I will go through their posts a bit later this afternoon (must feast first!) and see what my thoughts are on the two of them.

I suppose there's no reason to put off my vote though. And so, with a heavy and broken heart....

++Boro

Kath

06-07-2014, 02:33 PM

Alrighty then!

++Boro

Will have to look at Cop and sally.

Thinlómien

06-07-2014, 05:05 PM

Last post I guess...

Ranger dear, you probably know you should consider revealing toMorrow.

Shasta, Kitanna and the unknown ordo, best of luck. Keep your wits around and remember to vote.

That's all from me.

Thanks for the game everyone, see you in the after game discussion.

Boromir88

06-07-2014, 06:23 PM

Would the remaining voters like to make this a game of chance? It would be a shame the maniac doesn't get to use her power. :D

++Kitanna

Kitanna

06-07-2014, 07:21 PM

Would the remaining voters like to make this a game of chance? It would be a shame the maniac doesn't get to use her power. :D

++Kitanna

That's true. It is a shame, but you know maybe another mod will utilize the role, but for now I'm pretty OK not having it used.

++Boro

Inziladun

06-07-2014, 07:25 PM

If at all possible, Shasta needs to vote, since he didn't yesterDay.

Coppermirror

06-07-2014, 07:31 PM

Here and reading. Though aren't many posts to get through.

Coppermirror

06-07-2014, 07:55 PM

Let's see:

Day 4 ends, we get a wolf. (5:1)
Night 5 ends, the wolves get Lommy (4:1)
Day 5 starts, we have:
Kitanna the maniac
Shasta the known innocent
And three unknowns, one of which is a wolf.

Worst case scenario is we lynch an innocent then (taking us to 3:1) and then an innocent is night killed (taking us to 2:1). We would then have Kitanna + an unknown innocent + a wolf, with Kitanna holding the final decision. But I think it's unlikely that things will get that bad.

No time right now, but I'll take a good look through Kath and Sally's posts later.

++Boro

satansaloser2005

06-07-2014, 07:57 PM

Greenie's death:

Post 1: Found sally unsettling (I still think this was clearly explained afterwards). Feels that Kitanna posted substance even though she didn't really. Pleased that Boro is on topic. Confused by Legate. Little to say on anyone else.

Post 2 : Offers defence of Nerwen. Ah, I think this post might hold the key. She talks about how to impersonate a maniac, because of course they would want to be Night killed to best help the village. Maybe the wolves were playing the odds. Lose a wolf but get rid of the maniac now. Or hoping for a bluff.

Post 3: Continued discussion of the maniac.

Post 4: Continued discussion, but also decides Lommy looks innocent.

Post 5: Also confused by Legate! Votes sally for her earlier suspicion.

Well then. Nerwen and Lommy are the names that came up here so keep an eye on them toDay I suppose.

She notes here that Greenie focused on Nerwen. Given that we now know Nerwen was a wolf, this could in fact be why Greenie was killed. Perhaps the wolves feared she would be dreamed that Night and wanted to get Greenie out of the way before she could sense Nerwen's true motives?

From yesterDay, I think Kitanna and sally's votes are suspicious. They are both clearly self preservation votes and this is acceptable as an innocent, and understandable as a wolf. What I find odd is that neither of them actually admitted to that. :D

That Nog changed his suspicions through the Day made me feel happier about my early wonderings about him.

From my look at Greenie I think Lommy and Nerwen bear watching, but neither has leapt out as suspicious toDay to me.

Would really still like to know about double lynches as I feel that would have had a strong influence yesterDay on sally and Kitanna's voting.

And I rather feel that lynching sally or Kitanna would give more information here as a result.

There are already votes for Lottie and sally, so I will add the third name to the mix.

++Kitanna

Things I find suspicious in any situation: unnecessarily adding names to a lynch ballot. Her tone here even indicates to me that she simply wants to add a person. After all, she earlier in this very post called me and Kit out for the same thing, and also said lynching either of us would give more information, so why widen the suspect pool rather than go for the more attainable of her two targets?

I have an extremely fragile net connection (first time I've managed to get a connection at all today!) so I am going to vote right now.

As there have been no counter reveals to either Lommy or Kitanna, and I think everyone has now posted, I am happy to believe both.

Therefore:
++Nerwen

Lommy-Seer says she's a wolf then she's a wolf.

If Lommy and Kitanna are actual a wolf pack then I take my hat off to them!

This seems to me more resignation than joy at Lommy's reveal. That in fact brings me to my next point....

Quiet I have indeed been, but I will be in a place with secure internet access within the next hour or so, and can then be around pretty much until deadline.

Before then, to give you an idea of where my mind is: I am obviously happy that Lommy is the Seer; Kitanna revealed as the maniac after I had cast my vote for her, but I accept she has that role; I am innocent.

So my suspicions toDay will clearly focus on sally, Cop, Shasta and Boro.

Bolding is mine. It seems so odd to voice this emotion. The fact that she feels she needed to state this makes me think it is not true at all.

In short, Kath's acceptance of Lommy's reveal seems forced, and there's really only one reason to be displeased with a seer reveal....

Inziladun

06-07-2014, 08:00 PM

The day had passed with relatively little talk among the group, though it was not without event.
Lommy had revealed another dream she'd had of one of their tormentors, none other than Boro. At that there was much nodding of heads, as they recalled Professor Inzil had apparently been dispatched to the dubious locale Cleveland. If anyone would commit such a heinous act, Boro would.
He failed to protest as he was led to RADAGAST, though he attempted to persuade them to pick Kitanna to see what she would do. There were no takers.
When the results of the button press were examined, Boro had become a dog, though a rather different kind (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labradoodle#mediaviewer/File:Labradoodle_Brown.jpg).
Satisfied, and confident that the trouble might be soon behind them, the innocent among them headed for sleep.

The "Living"
Sally
Coppermirror
Kitanna
Lommy
Shasta
Kath

The "Dead"
Professor Inzil
Legate (Ordo)
Greenie (Ordo)
Nogrod (Ordo)
Loslote (Ordo)
Nerwen (Moviephile)
Boro (Moviephile)

IT IS NIGHT 5.

Nightly actors do your work.

satansaloser2005

06-07-2014, 08:01 PM

I took a look at Cop's posts as well, of course, but noticed the trend in Kath's as I was reading through the thread, so Kath took priority. My thoughts on Cop are up in another tab and can get tidied and posted (hopefully) toMorrow.

x'd with Inzilamod

Inziladun

06-08-2014, 08:00 PM

The night slowly passed, bringing a golden sunrise to the high, jagged Andean peaks.

Inside the incongruous, functional building, five of its occupants awoke to find the one who brought them such hope recently, Lommy, lying still in slumber, and unable to be awakened. The secret of her latest dream had been sealed by one of their number.
Just then, Shasta astonished the group.'You know, why hasn't anyone tried the BALROG-teleporter thing again?" he asked.
'Well,' replied Kath, 'because it looked like the last use might have ruined it, and we can't be sure what exactly happened to the Professor anyway.'
'We can at least try,' cried Shasta. 'At least that's what I'm going to do!'
And before anyone could stop him, he picked up a broom leaning against a wall, ran to the BALROG's opening, and hit the "send" button with the broom. With an angry burst of static, and an ominous popping sound, Shasta disappeared, leaving only fluttering, charred bits of clothing.
'And he didn't even change the destination from Cleveland,' said Sally sadly.

The "Living"
Sally
Coppermirror
Kitanna
Kath

The "Dead"
Professor Inzil
Legate (Ordo)
Greenie (Ordo)
Nogrod (Ordo)
Loslote (Ordo)
Nerwen (Moviephile)
Boro (Moviephile)
Lommy (Dreamer)
Shasta (Ordo) Modfire

IT IS DAY 5.

satansaloser2005

06-08-2014, 08:21 PM

Llllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllladies.

Kitanna

06-09-2014, 06:33 AM

So, an ordo, a ranger, a maniac, and a wolf walk into a bar...

Kitanna

06-09-2014, 10:35 AM

Not much to say about D4. Lommy's reveal as seer made an already quiet village even quieter. I don't know if it's because she revealed giving us two wolves or if everyone was just busy D4. I missed most of the Day because of work and sleep.

But of the little activity there was Sally did take a look at her suspect aka Kath.

Meanwhile Cop only talked about village odds and Kath said she would focus on the unknowns, but then didn't.

At this point I would say Sally is probably an innocent of some sort. I feel the same about Cop, but am not totally sure right now.

I think Kath is probably the last wolf. She hasn't been really active due to unstable internet, but when she did post it was generally noncommittal and safe. She would summarize and occasionally put in her two cents, but her quiet self was easily lost behind louder players. Which is good cover for a submarine wolf. Lottie has this to say about Kath
So this caught my eye as being...off. I don't know Kath's playing style very well, but this post of hers came off as being at once flippant - "they are both clearly self preservation votes", "I rather feel lynching sally or Kitanna would give more information" - and, at the same time, almost grasping at suspicions. For one thing, her suspicions about Kit and Sally are flimsy at best, but she phrases them as though they're simple and clean-cut and obvious. She mentions Nog, Nerwen, and Lommy, but doesn't actually say anything about them - basically a "I thought they might be suspicious but I don't know" kind of statement that doesn't do anyone much good. I'm not at all happy with this vote, and Kath has definitely jumped to the top of my list. Which could be part of the reason Lottie was killed. She defended Sally until the end, but she also cast suspicions on Kath.

I'm going to take another look at Cop next.

Kath

06-09-2014, 01:12 PM

Well, following Lommy's instructions!

I am the Ranger.

Which is why, for me, sally or Cop has to be the final wolf. Now I had intended to look at the two of them yesterDay but lack of net made that impossible so I will be doing that over the next few hours.

Kitanna, I can't say anything to you about your suspicions of me other than that they are wrong. I'm telling you now that I will be voting for sally or Cop.

Kath

06-09-2014, 01:17 PM

For reference I protected Lommy on Night 2, Boro on Night 3, Lommy again on Night 4 and last Night I was a bit limited so I protected Cop.

Kath

06-09-2014, 01:53 PM

sally:
#6 ~ Banter.

#23 ~ 'Agreed' with Lommy about the silly predictions; joked that Inzil was unsettling because he was a disembodied voice; mentioned banter-led suspicion of Kitanna.

#36 ~ Did not want to lynch the maniac. Said: I think exposing the maniac toDay would only lead to their death toNight, and I don't think that's a good idea. However, the rules state: If targeted for a Night-kill, takes a random baddie with them. Therefore if at any time the maniac was Night killed they would take a wolf down, so this is faulty reasoning.

#39 ~ States her reasoning was incorrect.

#49 ~ Explained her 'suspicion' of Inzil.

#55 ~ Wants the maniac to stay quiet to give the wolves pause with their Night kills. Argues against a known innocent role, but you can see the reasoning.

#80 ~ Presence post.

#82 ~ Replies to Nerwen's questioning her having two votes by saying it was the mean Finnish girls.

#86 ~ There is a conversation going on here between Nerwen and sally. Could just be random chat, but it could reads as Nerwen asking sally whether she should risk letting a Day 1 wolf-lynch happen.

#88 ~ Defends Kitanna, offers suspicion of Nog, Legate, Lottie and Greenie. No wolves in that list.

#93 ~ Voted Legate. Nerwen had ended up voting for Kitanna, which sally had definitely seen. That put Kitanna at 3 votes (the highest) with Kitanna and sally herself left to vote. Kitanna now obviously had to vote for Legate to save herself and put him to 3 votes. sally was always going to have to choose one or the other. Might as well choose Legate since Kitanna was defending her.

/Day 1

#153 ~ Presence post.

#156 ~ Votes Nog. There is no way around the fact that this was ultimately to save herself.

/Day 2

#177 ~ Presence post.

(Random on the way note! Lommy mentioned the interactions between Nerwen/Cop and Nerwen/sally. Sadly there is nothing clear in what she says on either. But with her later analysis on everyone, ends up saying Kath or Cop seem most suspicious from Nerwen's posts.)

#193 - Votes Nerwen. (This is after Lommy's reveal.)

/Day 3

#210 ~ Votes Boro. (After Lommy's reveal of that Day).

/Day 4

#220 (after deadline) ~ Pushing suspicion of me but says she will talk about Cop toMorrow.

#222 ~ Presence post.

/now.

Kitanna

06-09-2014, 02:03 PM

Kitanna, I can't say anything to you about your suspicions of me other than that they are wrong. I'm telling you now that I will be voting for sally or Cop.
You've been pretty sparse this game due to internet issues, so I don't think it'd be in wolf Kath's best interest to attempt a false reveal with the game riding on it.

If we vote wrong today and lynch the ordo (assuming we don't lynch the ranger), we're sunk. Unless, can the mod clarify if the ranger can protect herself?

Because let's say Kath is the ranger and we lynch the ordo. If Kath can protect herself it's not like the wolf would attack me in the Night and then maniac and ranger can vote wolf on the next day.

edit: Nevermind on that rule clarification, ranger cannot self protect. Sooo, that's fun news.

Kath

06-09-2014, 02:23 PM

Cop:

#4 ~ Banter.

#10 ~ Banter.

#50 ~ Presence post.

#59 ~ Checking a nickname.

#74/83 ~ List post, ended up considering Legate 'too careful' and rather discounting everyone else.

#84 ~ Votes Legate.

#87 ~ Vote summary, points out the tie between sally and Legate. So at that moment Cop had just put Legate in line for the lynch.

#97 ~ Thinks Greenie's death looks trailless but finds that odd in a small village.

#102 ~ Couldn't see anything suspicious about the votes from the Day before, but would probably vote sally right now (no reasoning).

#105 ~ If Nerwen was a Moviephile trying to save a packmate Sally there, I'm not sure she would have been so obviously unhappy with the Sally vote. Same goes for Kitanna. Then offers further suspicion of sally, partly based on Lommy's suggestion that Greenie was thought to be the Seer and had either dreamt of guilty!sally or innocent!Boro. Said she disagreed with Boro being innocent; bold for wolf on wolf. Votes sally.

(Random note: Kit was unsure about Cop on this Day.)

#164 ~ Vote summary. Whole lot of nothing actually, based around vote patterns.

#166 ~ Continued talk of vote patterns.

#171 ~ Unsure that Kitanna is a known innocent, but does think she shouldn't be lynched just in case. (At this point Kitanna is suspicious of Cop [and Boro] so if Cop were evil would have been wary of maniac!Kitanna being lynched.

#174 ~ Arguing with Nerwen. Does not want Kitanna lynched in case of a 'bad lynch'. Thinks there may yet be a counter reveal.

#197 ~ Presence post.

#198 ~ Votes Nerwen. (This is after Lommy's reveal.)

#217 ~ Votes Boro. (This is after Lommy's reveal from that Day.)

And nowt so far toDay.

Kath

06-09-2014, 02:24 PM

The Ranger cannot self protect, nor protect the same person two Nights in a row - otherwise we'd still have a Lommy.

Kitanna

06-09-2014, 02:42 PM

You've been pretty sparse this game due to internet issues, so I don't think it'd be in wolf Kath's best interest to attempt a false reveal with the game riding on it.
Then again I can see everyone revealing Ranger at this point since it is end game. That would be funny. But not funny in a "haha" way, more funny in a sad way.

Anywho...

Onto Cop...

I don't have much to add to what I already said before. My biggest thing with Cop is she never really commits to suspicions and once Lommy gave us two wolves, she didn't really have to. I had this to say on D2 Copper doesn't really commit to anyone. Cop has been very careful. She gives passes to nearly everyone, except one person, who she then votes for. Which I then repeated D3.

Cop didn't blindly accept the reveals, which made her look good in my eyes. I found this interesting from her vote post for Nerwen.
If it turns out to be some sort of amazing gambit from Lommy and Kitanna, and Nerwen at #196 is a peeved innocent trying to add suspense, I'll be very impressed.
I don't know why she threw this out there. Why would an innocent Nerwen be making this statement? Aw Lommy, you double-crossing penguin, why are you doing this to me? I thought we agreed last Night I was going to impersonate the Seer and you were going to be lynched! Meanie!
It seems...off to say such a thing. Right before that she says (even though she says it's unlikely) that Shasta could still be a seer and could counter-reveal. Also weird. If Cop is a wolf she would know Lommy was innocent and she may have tried to look helpful by questioning the reveals, maybe testing the waters to throw up a false reveal or to hint to one of her cohorts to false reveal.

It's been very hard for me to get a read on Cop. She has been extremely careful and hadn't fallen under a whole lot of suspicion from D1.

It's only been Kath and I for a few hours now, so no counter reveal to Kath's ranger claim. Someone do something like admit to wolvery or vote or anything.