Tol-in-Gaurhoth CIX - The TEN YEAR ANNIVERSARY EXTRAVAGANZA!

[Kuruharan]

Note: The games are done, I add to this post the links to the game threads for the convenience of any aftercomers who wish to read them.

Living Thread (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18895)

Dead Thread (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=18896)

Come one, come all to the Ten Year Anniversary Celebration of Tol-in-Gaurhoth on the Barrow Downs! On May 11, 2005 His Excellency The Barrow Wight opened a thread that changed the Downs forever and has brought great fun, joy, laughter, tears, misery, embarrassment, good guesswork, poor guesswork, blind luck, Youtube links, and blood (don't forget the blood) to us all for a full decade now!!

Bring your friends, bring your enemies, tell your friends to bring their friends, kidnap random people off the street and tie them up at a computer and make them play! All are welcome at the TEN YEAR ANNIVERSARY EXTRAVAGANZA!!!!!

I know what you are thinking, "But Kuru, now that you've got us all whipped up into a frenzy of excitement, we want details!!! What are the specifics of this once in a lifetime game that could never be repeated (unless somebody copies this format later)?! We demand specifics, dwarf!"

Fret not, Ladies and Gentlemen, for specifics are set out below.

What I can say is that the format will be similar to The Halls of Mandos (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=17100) game, which I thought was a brilliant idea and have wanted to see something like it be played on the Downs again.

NIGHT 1 will begin 10 PM US Eastern on May 31 and DAY 1 will begin 10 PM US Eastern on June 1.

Also, many thanks to Rikae and Macalaure for their advice when I approached them to steal...I mean borrow their idea for this game.

RULES

General Rules:

There will be no multi-lynches on the Living Thread or multi-vote granting from the Dead Thread. Vote ties in the Living Thread will result in no lynch and vote ties in the Dead Thread will result in no bonus vote being granted that DAY.

Voting should be done as follows: ++Kuruharan. Failure to vote three DAYS in a row will result in murder and sending the player to the Dead Thread. Participation in the Dead Thread is optional as you are already dead and I won't kill you again.

There are no retractable votes.

Living Thread:

Usual Werewolf, except roles are not revealed on death.

Dead Thread:

After there are THREE residents of the Dead Thread, every DAY the dead get to vote on giving one of the living an extra vote. The dead are subject to the same deadline (heh heh) as the living. The living will not know who among them will get an extra vote until it is revealed in the closing narration of the DAY.

Since in the Afterlife (or in the anteroom of the Afterlife) it is hard to hide one's true nature from one's fellow residents, every NIGHT after there are three residents the dead get to vote for one among themselves to determine their true nature. Their specific role will not be revealed but rather the voted player will be described as either PREDATOR or PREY.

The living may not look in the Dead Thread. The dead may continue to read the Living Thread but may no longer post there or interact with the Living in any way except through the mechanism of the Dead Thread bonus vote. The dead can read the whole Dead Thread, not just what happens after one dies. For those roles that resurrect, it is permitted for them to read the entire thread before their death and continue to read and participate in the Dead Thread until the time that I post the narration announcing their return to the Living Thread. After that post, the resurrected player may no longer read any further in the Dead Thread until such time as they return to it. For those who resurrect, they may only paraphrase but NOT directly quote or cite posts in the Dead Thread. However, the Dead may quote and cite posts from the Living Thread.

Please note: It is NOT ALLOWED for a Living Player to click on the post count link of the Dead Thread to check and see how many times Dead Thread players have posted. Obviously you will be able to see how many posts there are in total and who the last poster is, but that is all that is allowed. Do not check who has posted how many times, do not cite who has posted how many times, do not base arguments on it. You are the Living and they are the Dead and you don't know what they are up to.

I think that is pretty much it for the Rules.

Roles:

First things first - there is an undescribed role. The role has a particular power and a few particular vulnerabilities that follow from said power. That's all I'm going to say about it. Everyone (and I mean everyone) will have to keep their wits about them during the game. ;)

The Party (also known as the Village in normal parlance...)

Ordos - ordinary players, with no special powers. Will stay in the Dead Thread after death.

Lovers - Usual lovers in the sense that they can PM each other during the game. Unusual in the fact that if one of them dies, and if the other lover remains alive in the Living Thread, the dead lover will spend one DAY cycle among the dead and then returns to the Living Thread for one DAY. When that DAY is done, the resurrected lover returns to the grave permanently. Note: Unlike the previous game, the living lover is not killed at the death of the resurrected lover but continues to play as usual until death. However, the second lover does not come back after death. The lovers may not PM with each other across the divide of death. If one dies they may only PM during the DAY when the dead lover resurrects. After that, they may only PM each other again after both are in the Dead Thread. The lovers are both on the side of the Party and win and lose with it. They are not a separate category or "side" in this game.

Ranger - Like the lovers, if killed the Ranger will spend one DAY cycle in the Dead Thread and then return to the Living Thread the next DAY. The Ranger has one protection initially. If the Ranger dies and is resurrected, the Ranger then has two protections. The Ranger can self-protect but cannot protect a person twice in a row. The Ranger cannot protect someone from being lynched, nor can the Ranger protect someone from a Hunter kill.

Seer - The Seer has two dreams while in the Living Thread and one dream while in the Dead Thread. While in the Living Thread, the Seer may only dream of players in the Living Thread. While in the Dead Thread, the Seer may only dream of players in the Dead Thread. If they are killed they remain in the Dead Thread.

Hunter - The Hunter may send me one name every DAY and NIGHT of somebody they would like to kill if they themselves are killed during that specific time period. Once they have sent me a pick they cannot change it until the next time period. They may pick the same player every single time or pick a different person every time as they wish. If they are killed they remain in the Dead Thread. EDIT: Since we've just gotten started and the Hunter role seemed so lackluster, I've made a slight change.

The Baddies (also known as the Baddies in normal parlance...) This is where things get fun!

There are two wolf packs of three each: the Grip Pack and the Fang Pack. Because of Evil's inability to get along with itself, the two packs are against each other as well as against the Party. Winning for the Baddies is defined as the number of surviving villagers being equal to the number of surviving members of the most populated pack. After consulting with the Lord High Scorekeeper, it was decided that if there are equal wolves remaining in a Baddie victory the game will be recorded as a tie, so the wolves need to worry about each other as much as the Village.

However, this little spat is impenetrable to the Party and their only goal is to get all six wolves. Additionally, should the Seer dream of a wolf, the Seer will not be able to tell which pack the wolf belongs to. The members of one pack will not know the members of the other pack.

While in the Living Thread members of the same pack can PM each other during the NIGHT. While in the Dead Thread members of the same pack can PM each other at any time. There is no communication across the bounds of death except through the mechanism of the Dead Thread bonus vote, which a wolf will probably want to try to manipulate as best as possible.

You have probably noticed a distinct trend on my part to slow up the non-NIGHT killing somewhat. This is intentional what with two NIGHT kills per cycle plus regular lynchings the Dead Thread is going to populate quickly. Everyone is going to need to be on their toes a bit for this one.

Participants:
Formendacil
Rikae
satansaloser2005
Macalaure
Gwathagor
McCaber
Loslote
Boromir88
Aganzir
Nogrod
Nerwen
Rune Son of Bjarne
Firefoot
Thinlómien
Lalaith
Eomer of the Rohirrim
mormegil
Nilpaurion Felagund
Shastanis Althreduin
Legate of Amon Lanc
the phantom
Mithalwen
A Little Green
Kath

[Formendacil]

Dear me, I really shouldn't... but I did spend the better part of January pining over Downer Years Past and with a tentative 10 pm EDT deadline, I don't know I can pass over the opportunity.

No doubt we'll all regret it once I turn into a lurker who posts once a day, but I cannot let that good sense stop me.

[Kuruharan]

I'm glad you are here, because I'm not going to lie, I was going to beg you to play if you didn't sign up voluntarily. :p

[Formendacil]

I'm glad you are here, because I'm not going to lie, I was going to beg you to play if you didn't sign up voluntarily. :p

I haven't played in decades of games--I wonder if I still know how. ;)

[Kuruharan]

I haven't played in decades of games--I wonder if I still know how. ;)

Don't worry, the best part about this format is you get to keep playing even if you are dead! :cool:

[Rikae]

Sign me up! :D

[Inziladun]

Lynchbait First Class, reporting.

[satansaloser2005]

Reporting for duty, Lord Kuru!

[Macalaure]

Just to make it official: I'm playing, too. :)

[Gwathagor]

I really shouldn't.

I want to.

But I really really shouldn't.

[McCaber]

I'm in.

[Kuruharan]

I really shouldn't.

I want to.

But I really really shouldn't.

You're on the list now. No take backs! :p

[Loslote]

Sign me up, please!

[Boromir88]

Sign me up :-)

[Aganzir]

I will be fully available after May 27th (I'm not travelling to Vienna with a fellow Barrow-Downer just to play werewolf) but I am interested. I'd be happy to sign up with a questionmark.

[Nogrod]

Of course I'm in after so many years... :)

[Nerwen]

As I said, count me in.:)

[Kuruharan]

I have updated the first post with the rules.

I apologize to everyone that I did not get the rules posted yesterday like I said I would. Yesterday did not end up going the way I expected at all and I ran out of time. Please let me know if I've overlooked something.

I am sending a few sales pitch PMs to people to see if they would like to play.

Other than that, does the group have a preference as to when we should begin? Agan can't play for a bit and in the other thread Lottie said she would be busy for a bit too. Would everyone be okay with waiting another week or two before we begin?

[Nogrod]

I'm going to be more or less unable to post anything between Thursday-Sunday this coming week, so I'd prefer we waited a week for more people to turn up before we start. :)

[Nogrod]

Btw. It's cool you decided to make a Hall of Mandos -game!

It is a superb concept as all those out from the proper game still have a chance to do something useful and/or fun and it doesn't end just like that on D1 for some poor soul... and if I remember it correctly, the dynamics were pretty interesting as the power of the dead rises the farther the game goes - the game kind of flips to the other side.

[Aganzir]

Btw. It's cool you decided to make a Hall of Mandos -game!

It is a superb concept as all those out from the proper game still have a chance to do something useful and/or fun and it doesn't end just like that on D1 for some poor soul... and if I remember it correctly, the dynamics were pretty interesting as the power of the dead rises the farther the game goes - the game kind of flips to the other side.
If I recall correctly, you were a hapless seer whom nobody believed, even after your death, and we had to waste a vote in the dead thread to establish you were telling the truth. :p

Also, I got five question marks instead of one. Hurray!

[Macalaure]

If I recall correctly, you were a hapless seer whom nobody believed, even after your death, and we had to waste a vote in the dead thread to establish you were telling the truth.

Nah, you guys didn't waste that vote. Since the votes in the dead thread were only to distinguish wolf or not, and he was widely believed to be a cobbler, poor Nogrod had to suffer through it for the entire game until everything was revealed in the end. The mods were very amused. :D

[Galadriel55]

Nah, you guys didn't waste that vote. Since the votes in the dead thread were only to distinguish wolf or not, and he was widely believed to be a cobbler, poor Nogrod had to suffer through it for the entire game until everything was revealed in the end. The mods were very amused. :D

And wasn't the phobbler putting on a very Seer-like show, which was one of the reasons Nog got lynched in the first place?

As for this game, epic as it is, I'm afraid I have not the time this summer for an actual WW game, especially if I can't hope to die off early (but usefully) and resume my RL duties. I have a very small brother that I have to take care of this summer since my mother's maternity leave is ending, and there's absolutely no chance I would have the time or strength to be useful (see, I actually have a decent excuse!). I will pop in, though, with random ghostly comments, and will try to follow along. Feel free to lynch me. :p

[Kuruharan]

As for this game, epic as it is, I'm afraid I have not the time this summer for an actual WW game

Sadness. :( Still I hope you will enjoy reading it as it unfolds.

he was widely believed to be a cobbler

Fortunately, we will not have cobblers in this game. :D

This may make for a more cut and dried Dead Thread this game to some extent but if we get a few more people I will feel comfortable in implementing one of my ideas that will probably make the Dead Thread more...competitive. EDIT: And by competitive I mean internally speaking.

As far as start time, one of my correspondents said that they would much prefer a later start date as opposed to now. Given that a number of people have already expressed a desire to push the start date back, I think the game is probably going to start toward the end of May, in fact, from a personal standpoint, the end of May works a better for me too. Hopefully that will work for most people.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Sign me up!

I will probably be busy in patches, so there might be a lack of consistent participation, but nothing that should warrant a mod-kill.

[Firefoot]

Dear me, I really shouldn't... but I did spend the better part of January pining over Downer Years Past and with a tentative 10 pm EDT deadline, I don't know I can pass over the opportunity.

No doubt we'll all regret it once I turn into a lurker who posts once a day, but I cannot let that good sense stop me. Second this. I've been talked into it. May 25th is the earliest I can start.

Let's play a game: who's gone the longest stretch without playing a Werewolf game? Winner gets special consideration for being rusty and rights to say things like, "Back when I was still playing...". ;) XXIII was my last in 2006.

[Kuruharan]

Second this. I've been talked into it. May 25th is the earliest I can start.

I'm glad I was so charming. ;) Especially since you were one of my wolf buddies from the very first game. If only we could get in touch with Ang...

I've still got a few sales pitches out and a couple of people from the other thread who said they were in who haven't officially signed up here, so at this point I feel (fairly) confident in revealing my idea to compensate for the lack of cobblers.

If we can get 18-20 people, I am going to have competing wolf packs. :cool:

[Eönwë]

I don't really think I have a choice. I'm in!

[Kitanna]

I hope it's not too late to sign up.

[Thinlómien]

Officer Thinlómien reporting for duty! This will be fun.

[Kuruharan]

I hope it's not too late to sign up.

Nope, not too late at all.

We are going to wait till the end of the month as a number of people won't be available until then and I have heard no objections from anybody to waiting. In fact, I've taken Agan's question marks off so she's committed now. :p

One more person to sign up and I will reveal the roles! :D

[Thinlómien]

We are going to wait till the end of the month as a number of people won't be available until then and I have heard no objections from anybody to waiting.Sounds good, seeing as I will be away from May 27th to June 1st and quite busy before that anyway). I will poke Legate and Greenie about joining, too. :)

[McCaber]

If I may suggest, having a Gifted who can tell the identity of one dead person a night could be a cool twist.

[Macalaure]

If I may suggest, having a Gifted who can tell the identity of one dead person a night could be a cool twist.

The problem with it would be, that they most likely would simply default to dreaming every Day's lynch, which is boring (and predictable). As a one-time ability, that would be interesting!

Kuru: in the Mandos game, there were roles that, upon dying, would spend a brief while among the dead, and then resurrect under certain circumstances, thus providing a limited amount of information flow from the dead to the living. Is something like that planned again?

[Kuruharan]

Kuru: in the Mandos game, there were roles that, upon dying, would spend a brief while among the dead, and then resurrect under certain circumstances, thus providing a limited amount of information flow from the dead to the living. Is something like that planned again?

Yes, there definitely is.

On the whole, I don't believe that determining the allegiance of the Dead is going to be a problem, as long as the village plays well they should ultimately end up in possession of a goodly supply of information. It is the Living that will be tricky...I hope. ;)

[Lalaith]

Oh what fun! *claps hands*

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Oh, Kuru, I still remember when Oddwen mercilessly ripped you apart to win Tol-in-Gaurhoth III. Good times.

I love the premise; missed it the first time round. One question: you say the active players aren't allowed to look in the Dead Thread (or Deid Threid, as we Scots might say). Is that simply a matter of trust, or is there some (obvious) thing I'm missing which prevents dastardly wolverous treachery? Ah! Such villainous lycanthropy! I can't take it anymore: STRING THEM UP!

++NILPAURION FELAGUND

[mormegil]

Like Form, it's been a long time since I've played and I'm a bit tentative on this but it seems appropriate to play the 10 year anniversary edition...I can't believe it's been that long. It honestly seems like a year or two ago. I hope my level of participation is sufficient. Life has changed significantly in 10 years so my free time is less than it was but I look forward to losing :o

[Kuruharan]

Oh, Kuru, I still remember when Oddwen mercilessly ripped you apart to win Tol-in-Gaurhoth III. Good times.

Was that the one where I single-handedly lost the village the game when I was the hunter by blasting the wrong person to smithereens on the final DAY or am I thinking of another one of my ignominious defeats?

I love the premise; missed it the first time round. One question: you say the active players aren't allowed to look in the Dead Thread (or Deid Threid, as we Scots might say). Is that simply a matter of trust, or is there some (obvious) thing I'm missing which prevents dastardly wolverous treachery? Ah! Such villainous lycanthropy! I can't take it anymore: STRING THEM UP!

There is no mechanism to prevent cheaters, I'm afraid. It was, in fact, quite a hot topic during the previous game in this format, although to some extent I think one of the Cobbers was stoking that fire to cause trouble (but I do hope it doesn't come up as an issue over the course of this game). However, everyone in that game (at least as far as we know) followed the rules. I truly don't think anybody on the Downs would stoop to that level, if I did I wouldn't do a game in this format. We can certainly be fierce competitors around here, but we play fair. The sort of ignominy and shame that would visit upon the head of somebody who was found to have cheated...it really doesn't even bear thinking about.

But I'm certain nothing like that is going to happen. :smokin:

Anyway, a big thank you to everyone who has signed up! :D

Sign ups are certainly still open, but we now have enough players for me to post all the roles. I will update the first post with the roles shortly.

[Kuruharan]

I hate double posting, but I wanted to make sure everyone saw this.

I have updated the initial post with the roles. Everyone please review them carefully.

Thank you.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I may return to cause psychological/moral/meta angst.

I'd need to read up a bit, though.

[Kuruharan]

Nilp!!!

So glad to see you! I hope you do decide to join. It should be right up your street...

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I noticed that the old Halls of Mandos threads goes 20 pages for the main one and 12 for the dead one...

Never mind the reading up, just sign me up.

I'll do my best to get lynched on DAY 1, as usual--even though that won't shut me up for long. :smokin:

[Thinlómien]

Nilp, Lalaith, morm... this is actually happening, isn't it? I'm not dreaming??

*group hug and happy dance*

(now that I'm still glad you guys are playing and not getting headache from Nilp's antiques, paranoid about Lalaith seeming so nice and reasonable, or having an inner debate whether morm is actually suspicious or it's just a habit of mine to suspect him :p)

[Macalaure]

One last question:

Is it a wolf win if
-the total number of wolves equals the number of villagers
-the number of wolves of one team equals the number of villagers
-the number of wolves of one team equals the number of villagers + number of wolves on the other team.

Am I making this too complicated? :rolleyes:

[Rikae]

I'm really looking forward to seeing this concept developed and experiencing it from the perspective of a player, Kuruharan! After the first game, I was hoping someone would eventually revisit it and work out the kinks. (Unfortunately I can't quite remember what those were, other than that there needed to be a bit more knowledge available to the dead).

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Oh, Kuru, I still remember when Oddwen mercilessly ripped you apart to win Tol-in-Gaurhoth III. Good times.

I love the premise; missed it the first time round. One question: you say the active players aren't allowed to look in the Dead Thread (or Deid Threid, as we Scots might say). Is that simply a matter of trust, or is there some (obvious) thing I'm missing which prevents dastardly wolverous treachery? Ah! Such villainous lycanthropy! I can't take it anymore: STRING THEM UP!

++NILPAURION FELAGUND

I look at it this way: if we trust those players who live together not to discuss the game (more difficult than it sounds!) surely we can trust players not to read a forbidden thread as well.

[Kuruharan]

One last question:

Is it a wolf win if
-the total number of wolves equals the number of villagers
-the number of wolves of one team equals the number of villagers
-the number of wolves of one team equals the number of villagers + number of wolves on the other team.

Am I making this too complicated? :rolleyes:

Hmm...my original plan was total number of wolves equals the number of villagers. I hadn't even considered making the victory condition be the number of wolves on one team equaling the number of villagers. That would definitely ease the problem I've been wrestling with in the concept that in all my little simulations of the game it is pretty short, which makes it hard on the village. It would also greatly reduce (although not eliminate) the possibility of a tie, which I think is optimal.

I must ponder this, but I may well make this change. Anybody else's input on this decision is welcome.

other than that there needed to be a bit more knowledge available to the dead

I fear I am adding more kinks rather than working them out. ;)

From my perspective, I think with NIGHTly role reveals and (trusted) Seer dreams the dead will have enough information to be going on with. I was concerned that the dead might end up with too much information which is why the Seer can only dream once a NIGHT in the Dead Thread as opposed to the Living Thread when the Seer can dream twice. I thought that was one of the benefits of a quicker game was it kept the pressure up on the dead to use interactions and deductions rather than just relying on reveals because there wouldn't be enough time.

[Shastanis Althreduin]

Knock, knock.

Boro and Sally mentioned I should look in.

:Merisu:

Edit: This is a signup, if that wasn't clear.

[Eomer of the Rohirrim]

I look at it this way: if we trust those players who live together not to discuss the game (more difficult than it sounds!) surely we can trust players not to read a forbidden thread as well.

That's true. And this community can certainly trust each other to play the game in the right spirit. There is a psychological difference, though, because if you discuss the game when you're not supposed to then you know that someone else knows about your reprehensible act - even though they are themselves also guilty. This way, however, the crime would remain a total secret.

Did you guys play a game together since? We never did. One of us (not saying which) would have been totally unable to keep secrets like werewolf roles. :p

[Mithalwen]

While I think everyone acted honourably last time I wonder if the Social Group facility would work to ensure the secrecy of the tomb... not sure exactly how it works but someone more techy than me might

[Kuruharan]

While I think everyone acted honourably last time I wonder if the Social Group facility would work to ensure the secrecy of the tomb... not sure exactly how it works but someone more techy than me might

Hmmm...that is definitely an interesting idea that should be investigated, it might have a variety of useful applications.

However, for this game I think I'm going to give it a miss. I'm not sure how accessible the information would be for after the game and I want people to be able to read both threads after the game is over.

[Rikae]

That's true. And this community can certainly trust each other to play the game in the right spirit. There is a psychological difference, though, because if you discuss the game when you're not supposed to then you know that someone else knows about your reprehensible act - even though they are themselves also guilty. This way, however, the crime would remain a total secret.

Did you guys play a game together since? We never did. One of us (not saying which) would have been totally unable to keep secrets like werewolf roles. :p

We've played a couple more games together, and these days we're strict about not discussing games at all, but it's still a challenge to keep everything secret from someone who's sitting right across the room.

[Kuruharan]

After pondering it over, I have decided to adopt Mac's suggestion of having a Baddie victory being defined by size of the victorious pack rather than as both packs together.

The rules have been updated to reflect this.

[Nilpaurion Felagund]

I'm already near the end of DAY 3 for the old Mandos game.

Wow, that was crazy.

EDIT: Also, I've been used as a verb about two years after my last game. I feel so proud.

[Kuruharan]

A friendly reminder that sign-ups are still open so there is still time to find people to play.

I will be closing sign-ups a week from today as I will need a little time to do role selection and notification. NIGHT 1 will begin 10 PM US Eastern on May 31. There will be no NIGHT kills that NIGHT, just Seer dreams and Wolf plotting. DAY 1, with all its attendant fun, will begin 10 PM US Eastern on June 1.

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Okay okay, sign me in, please :) I wasn't sure about time, but I guess I should be okay when this starts...

[Kuruharan]

Done.

I have also updated the first post with the deadlines.

[satansaloser2005]

I'm currently trying to convince the phantom to join us. If anyone wants to help in said convincing.... :Merisu:

[Kuruharan]

...he said to add him. :D

[Kuruharan]

Hey guys,

I know it is kind of late in the day to be thinking about this (and that a lot of people are on trips and stuff) but I have been reading the original game threads very carefully the past few days looking for final minor adjustments to improve balance, etc. (I have a list, but I will post those all at once so as to limit confusion).

In reading the previous threads the idea that there needs to be a slightly more solid means of communication between the Dead Thread and the Living Thread has started to gnaw on me significantly. Since roles haven't been assigned yet (so everyone will be able to give their honest opinions re. balance), I thought I would toss my idea out to the group for everyone to look at and discuss whether it should be implemented in this game or if it is a workable idea at all.

My idea is that a single player (I will call it the Visitor) should have the ability to communicate with the opposite thread every NIGHT. I'm hung up on a couple of things. 1) Should this be Dead Thread to Living Thread communication, like a ghostly visitation, or Living to Dead communication (I'm leaning toward Dead to Living). 2) How should this selection of the Visitor be made? I believe this needs to be a rotating role to give the wolves the opportunity to mess with people and cause problems which leads me to question 3) should the Visitor have the ability to choose the recipient of their visitation or should the recipient somehow be determined for them and the Visitor just chooses what they say to the recipient (through me, there will be no direct contact)?

My idea, also, is that the identity of the Visitor will not be known to the recipient. Rather it will be along the lines of, "You recieve a ghostly visitor in the NIGHT. You are so frightened that you cannot tell their identity. The ghost says to you, "cookies are nummy" and departs." Something along those lines.

Anyway, that's my idea. I apologize that I'm bringing this up so late, and it may be that the Village in the previous game had such bad luck that I'm too worried about trying to balance things toward the village.

Those who read, please give me your comments. I would need some solid implementation ideas before I would do this and I don't feel it is ready for that yet, so if we don't iron out kinks this won't happen.

[A Little Green]

OH MY GOD please please please don't say I'm too late to sign up! If not, count me in.

[Firefoot]

Having been so long out of it, I don't really have any opinions on game dynamics, but do we have an approximate start date?

[Kuruharan]

Firstly, Mithalwen asked to join and no it wasn't too late Greenie so welcome aboard!

However, with that sign ups are now officially closed...well, I suppose if somebody begs me before the end of today, but I really do need to start the wheels in motion here.

Since there was no discussion of the Visitor role, it will not be added to this game, but I hope that if somebody does a format like this in future the idea is more thoroughly explored.

NIGHT 1 will begin 10PM US Eastern on Sunday, May 31. DAY 1 will begin 10PM US Eastern on Monday, June 1 and so on.

There are a few added/amended rules that are below (these will also be added to the first post):

Ranger: The Ranger cannot prevent somebody from being lynched. Likewise, the Ranger cannot stop the Hunter kill. The Ranger just protects against regular NIGHT kills.

Dead Thread Reading: For those roles that resurrect, it is permitted for them to read the entire thread before their death and then continue to read and participate in the Dead Thread up until the time that I post the narration announcing their return to the Living Thread. After that post, the resurrected player may not read any further in the Dead Thread until such time as they return to it.

Dead Thread Announcements: For "Reasons" I will not give specific roles as a result of the Dead Thread role reveal votes. My response to those votes will be "PREDATOR" or "PREY."

Just as an aside, the Seer will get explicit results to all their dreams whether in the Living Thread or the Dead Thread.

Dead Thread Quoting: For those who resurrect, they may only paraphrase but NOT directly quote or cite posts in the Dead Thread. However, the Dead may quote and cite posts from the Living Thread.

Dead Thread Post Count: This rule is different from the last game so I hope everyone pays attention to it. It is considered cheating for a Living Player to click on the post count link of the Dead Thread to check and see how many times Dead Thread players have posted. Obviously you will be able to see how many posts there are in total and who the last poster is, but that is it. Do not check who has posted how many times, do not cite who has posted how many times, do not base arguments on it. I do this mainly for RP reasons, deal with it.:p You are the Living and they are the Dead, you don't know what they are up to.

Now, with that bit of housekeeping out of the way...

A number of people have contacted me and inquired regarding specific roles and I have told a couple of them the following, and I want to broadcast this to everyone so there is a level playing field for all:

I am not going to handpick people for their roles. Roles are going to be picked using some tables I made and the RANDOM function in Excel. That being said, I reserve the right to tweak the results by using partial lists of players and multiple selection rounds to pick a role. So basically I'm saying don't try to play me and who you think I would pick, play each other once the game starts.

I will be handing out roles over Friday and Saturday as I have time. I will post the two game threads on Sunday after all the roles have been assigned. Since this is a large game I will only PM people if they have a special role. If you haven't gotten a PM from me by the time the two game threads appear on the forum, then you are an Ordo and I wish you good luck and I hope you have fun playing.

That wraps it up except for reminding everyone to go invisible and have space cleared in your PM box for messages in case you have a role (no, I'm not trying to insult anybody's intelligence, its just been a long time since we have played and I don't want these to slip anybody's mind).

[Kath]

Hi Kuru! I have just been yelled at by aganzir to get my backside on here and sign up. Can I?

[Kuruharan]

I'll add you. :)

[Mithalwen]

I did like the visitor/ medium thing but I was catching up on the existing format..being thick here but isn't the lover revenant thing a bit of a role giveaway?

[Eönwë]

I'm sorry, but it looks like I'm going to have to drop out of this game. I won't really have time or internet access from the 6th.

[Kuruharan]

I did like the visitor/ medium thing but I was catching up on the existing format..being thick here but isn't the lover revenant thing a bit of a role giveaway?

Yes, but it is intended to be, otherwise the ordos wouldn't know that they could trust the returned lover.

I'm sorry, but it looks like I'm going to have to drop out of this game. I won't really have time or internet access from the 6th.

Awww...that's too bad. :(

Still, hopefully you will get to enjoy reading it.

[Mithalwen]

Oh I see... so one potential certainty....

[Kuruharan]

Roles have started going out, although they have not all gone out yet, the main point of that note being sign ups are most definitely closed and no further players will be accepted.

The main point of this post is I needed to note for everyone a further clarification in the rules. It was rightly pointed out to me that I should definitively clarify the status of the Lovers because there have been games where their role has been ambiguous. The Lovers are both on the side of the village and both win and lose with it.

I will also make a note in the rules in the original post clarifying this.

[Kitanna]

I'm afraid I'm going to have to drop out. I won't have the time to dedicate to this that I thought I would. I'm sorry for the last minute change. :(

[Inziladun]

I hate to do this at the 11th hour as well, but a family situation has come up, and I'm going to have to bow out.
Sorry.

[Kuruharan]

These things happen.

All the roles have been sent out. I will post the threads tonight.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Between me signing up and the start of the game a general election has been called. Since I am a member of a political party, this means quite a bit of extra work.

If I disappear a bit some days, that will be the explanation. Obviously I will do my best to contribute regularly to the game.

[Kuruharan]

Between me signing up and the start of the game a general election has been called. Since I am a member of a political party, this means quite a bit of extra work.

If I disappear a bit some days, that will be the explanation. Obviously I will do my best to contribute regularly to the game.

Understood.

That's part of the reason why there is a three day grace period on voting (which I think is pretty generous if I do say so myself). With this many people playing, lots of stuff is bound to happen.

[Gwathagor]

P.S. I was actually totally serious when I said I really shouldn't play. Just don't have the time to do it right.

[Kuruharan]

I'll scratch you, then.

[Formendacil]

My apologies for missing the deadline--I was expecting to have time on the train home after my work function, but the function ran later and my phone ran short on juice.

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

If it is okay, and I am not breaking any rules by doing so?
I would like to ask our more experienced WW-analytics about there methods.

I had an idea that I would use Excel's data transfer option, to get all posts into an easily searchable document, that could also contain my own notes to each post.

It turned out not to be so easy, and with all the editing I need to do, I might as well just have copy pasted the individual posts into the document.

So yeah, any tips to keep track on everything?
Do you just note stuff down and then use the search function on the forum?

Again, sorry if this request breaks any formalities.

[Kuruharan]

I have no tips on the best way to approach that, but I just wanted to say asking doesn't violate any game rules.

[Macalaure]

I think sharing our analytical approaches is a cool idea.

I personally don't approach the game that analytically for the most part. Just reading along, trying to get a feel, write down a comment and post it if something catches my eye.

What I do usually analyze (though not always, depending on time and mood) is everyDay's voting and the posts by and directed to the recently deceased. Sometimes I analyze one specific player outside of this, either because I want to make a condemning case against someone (evil smiley needed), or because someone completely baffles me.

The way I do that? Clicking through the pages, scrolling a lot, browser-searching for the name/nickname of the poster I'm looking for (or searching for ++'s to get the votes quickly). The information-age equivalent of sweat and tears. Nothing fancy at all. I used to use the post count link on the side to get all the posts by one person, but I stopped because I will miss other people's reactions that way.

I don't write down comments for myself. If there's something I noticed, but that I don't want to post for some reason, then I'll either remember it or it probably wasn't that crucial. Sometimes it's annoying though: that time when you know someone said something somewhere, but you can't find the post anymore for the life of you.


I hope other will share theirs, too. :)