Tol-in-Gaurhoth CXIV – The Evil Breath of Morgoth in Dor-lómin, discussion thread

[Nogrod]

The players


Thinlómien
Legate of Amon Lanc
Huinesoron
Loslote
Pitchwife
Kath
Galadriel55
Lhunardawen
Inziladun
Kitanna
A Little Green
Boromir88
Urwen
Lalaith
Brinniel
Eönwë
Macalaure
Rikae
Rune Son of Bjarne
THE Ka
Satansaloser2005
Shastanis Althreduin


General rules.


The roles (with 22 players)

5 Infectors ("wolves")
1 Cobbler

1 Seer
1 Ranger
1 Hunter
1 Innocent Child

12 ordinary Villagers


Victory conditions

The Villagers win if they get rid of all the Infectors. The Infectors win, if they manage to even the number of innocent Villagers with their own numbers. The Cobbler wins if the Infectors win and s/he is still among the healthy Villagers (s/he may of course take it as moral victory though, if the evil wins even if s/he is quarantined).

There is a kind of a secondary victory condition as well. If the Villagers manage to keep Lalaith safe, they get a lot of credit and can prize themselves for keeping up the cause of beauty and goodness in this dark and evil world. This concerns the QT especially as players there already know their characters and should be more concerned also about that side of the story.

The Infectors hold infecting or quarantining Lalaith a special reward as well: what would be more fitting to Morgoth than destroying joy, innocence and laughter? Even if the Infectors lose, they might hold removing Lalaith a sort of a consolation prize.

NB. These secondary conditions have no bearing on the actual winning conditions and are mainly for giving the game some extra emotional weight, and naturally for bragging rights after the game.


The Threads

- 1 Game Thread for the supposed healthy Villagers ("the living") where people vote everyDay for one person to be quarantined.
- 1 Quarantine Thread for the secluded and Nightly infected ("the dead") where people vote everyDay to whom to give their one vote in the Game Thread

Everyone belongs to one of the threads and no-one belongs to both - and they are able to post only on that one Thread. The Quarantined are allowed to read the Game Thread as well, but the healthy are not allowed to read the QT. Discussion in the Game Thread is prohibited during the Nights, but the QT is open around the clock.


Deadlines

- Deadline for voting Daily in the Game Thread is 9PM GMT/UTC (which ends the Day)
- Deadline for voting Daily in the Quarantine Thread is 7PM GMT/UTC (aka. two hours before the Game deadline) after which it is revealed (by the mod) in the Game Thread.
- Deadline for Nightly actions for the special roles is 8PM GMT/UTC (aka. one hour before a new Day begins). Earlier announcements are strongly encouraged and approved of.

- Narration which includes the revealing of the newly quarantined's role will be posted in the Game Thread as soon as possible, hopefully within half an hour from the voting Deadline.
- Every new Day begins with a Nightly narration revealing the person and role that has been infected at Night (if there is one).


Voting

-Make your vote on a separate line (with one empty line both over and under it). Use the traditional form:

++ Nogrod

To make it look like that (to make it “highlighted”), bold the vote and then change the letter B in square brackets into the word: highlight

Like this (with also a square bracket on the left)

highlight]++ Nogrod[/highlight]

- If in a last second frenzy, you can edit the “highlighting” after you have first just sent the vote, but that applies only to votes sent on the very last seconds (to avoid being late with your vote because of needing to type the word ‘highlight’ twice). All other editing of the votes is strictly prohibited.
- There are no retractable votes aka. once sent, the highlighted votes are final.


Rules for ties in voting

- If there is a tie in votes in the Game Thread, the one who has gotten the most number of votes the earliest is quarantined.
- If there is a tie of votes in the Quarantine Thread, the one who has been quarantined the latest - and has voted for one of the tied candidates - has the final say (aka. her vote counts practically as two). NB. A Nightly infected person is not counted as the "most recently quarantined" unless the tie can not be solved following this rule (in case of which it counts).


Rules concerning special characters

- The Seer learns all the roles.
- The Ranger can’t protect the same person two Nights in a row and can’t protect himself.
- If the Hunter is targeted by Night he will fight and attack whomever he has chosen to hunt (so he's the "illogical hunter") – both will be turned into the QT in the morning. If the Hunter is voted to be quarantined at the end of a Day, he will take with him anyone he has chosen, whoever that is.
- The Cobbler is counted among the innocents in the tally that decides whether the Infectors have won or not (even number of players on both sides).
- The Innocent Child can reveal herself to be the Innocent Child. In that case the Mod confirms the revelation.
- If anyone with a special role that includes Nightly actions doesn’t inform me at least one hour before the Deadline (the Daybreak), aka. 8PM GMT/UTC, that action is botched up.
- Players with a singular special role know their characters in the story. As I think I discussed these possibilities openly somewhere (and behind the scenes with my fellow Finnish 'Downers), let's make them public and official: Seer = Húrin, Ranger = Huor, Hunter = Túrin, The Innocent Child = Urwen/Lalaith, Cobbler = Andróg. Anyone can use this information in any way they see fitting their aims.


Narration, characters, players

- The narration will build an alternative legendarium. It is based on the characters of the CoH and is guided by your decisions in the game. Everyone of you is paired with certain character in the legendarium and that bond will come public in the narrations whenever someone is quarantined or moved into the QT because of the Nightly actions. The people in the QT are free to exploit those connections and have their fun with them as they wish.
- Important note: it will be in vain to search for clues from the narrations as to the roles (seer, ranger, “wolf”…) of the players. There will be none. The characters of the narrations will follow their personalities and commitments, not the actions or words of the players in the game whom they are paired with. The game you play just directs their destinies and thus creates the narrative.


Modfire

- A person who does not vote or post in two Days in a row, will be modfired.
- A person who continuously avoids being modfired by posting just the minimum (fex. posts one oneliner in every other Day) may be given a warning. A modfire results from two warnings. (Everyone doesn't have to flood-post, but everyone should at least show a minimal interest to the game.)
- If someone has RL problems taking part at certain times, please notify others of it in this Discussion Thread. The mod is also much more lenient to proclaimed absences.


Technical remainders

- Go to invisbility mode (User CP -> Edit Options -> Invisible mode). The Mod will be visible so you can see if he’s around.
- Check that you have room in your PM box.
- If you have questions, check the rules first. If there is no answer there, you can always PM the Mod. You may ask about a specific rule in the Game Thread as well if it looks like it is a question we haven’t tackled with before the game, but especially in that case, PM the Mod as well.
- Use the Discussion Thread for any “Meta-info” aka. if you suddenly need to be away for some considerable time or have technical problems etc.


Apropos

Less experienced players - and why not also the "rusty veterans" - might do well to check the quite nice guidelines, abbreviations etc. Morm has gathered together. The post is pinned on the "Middle-Earth Mirth" and can be found here: http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=16791

[Nogrod]

Okay. Let's start the discussion of the game here.

Here are some of my preliminary thoughts on it.


Firstly, I think I have a nice solution to this"dead thread" problem.

Because this is a story about the House of Hador and the people of Haleth, who are true to their kin not killing each other based on random accusations, we should treat the whole matter in a bit different way. Especially as it is the highly contagious Evil Breath of Morgoth that torments them rather than some basic werewolves just ripping their limbs apart.

So instead of a graveyard or a dead-thread, a quarantine-house is called for!

The villagers lock up one person at the end of every Day in quarantine ("lynching") and every morning one person who has gotten sick ("killed by wolves") by Night is being carried there as well.

All the roles are revealed in "death". If the roles are not told, the game becomes even more random than it already is.


Secondly, I think I also came up with quite a nice idea for the "dead-thread" aka. quarantine-thread (QT).

All the people in QT can, and hopefully will, use their Days discussing the matters and then, let's say two hours before the Deadline, they vote to whom they will give their vote that Day. So the quarantined have one vote, no matter how many they are.

The vote of the QT is then announced to the villagers immediately (two hours before the Dl, for example) and will be put down in the general tally of votes.


In the absolutely worst case, a Wolf will end up lynched on Day 1, then ostracised by fellow dead, and will be bored for the rest of the game. But that is the worst-case scenario for one person, as opposed to everyone else. I think it's worth it.
Agreed.

Even I could see in this scenario something fun even for the lonely D1 "lynched" wolf. For I was thinking that in case of a tie in votes (in the QT) it would be the most "veteran" quarantined who would make the final decision between the ones with same number of votes. So on D2 the wolf would be the one who chooses, who to give the QT-vote! (Place for many different tactics!!!)



So, what say you? Comments, suggestions?


PS. Someone asked when we would start? I'd say that as soon as we get enough players to have a decent game. I'd say 12 the least. If my memory serves me right the old school games were normally between something like 14-16 players? That I think would be ideal. So maybe not in a day or two, but next week probably, hopefully?

[Inziladun]

So instead of a graveyard or a dead-thread, a quarantine-house is called for!

How very excellent! ;)

All the roles are revealed in "death". If the roles are not told, the game becomes even more random than it already is.

That would seem to have a large effect on the Quarantined votes. How likely are the Innocents there to listen to a known baddie?

[Huinesoron]

Does this mean the "Wolves" are asymptomatic carriers? :D I kind of love it.

I wonder whether a full-fledged Quarantine Vote might not disrupt things too much, though - for instance, if a Seer gets killed without explicitly revealing their results, the village would almost have to follow the first Quarantine Vote on the assumption that the Seer was behind it. I don't really know whether that would be a problem, though, or if it's just part of the fun.

As far as the seniority system goes: rather than pinning the timing down to a single person being available at the right moment, I'd suggest making a tie go to whichever person had the most veteran Quarantinee vote for them, out of the QTs who were involved in the tie. So if the Day 1 lynch votes for a third party, we'd look at the Night 1 kill's vote instead (or the Day 2 lynch, etc etc). That makes it slightly more automatic, and means a less-active Quarantine House isn't a game-breaker.

That would seem to have a large effect on the Quarantined votes. How likely are the Innocents there to listen to a known baddie?

That depends - is the know baddie saying 'you definitely shouldn't vote for him, he's totally not a wolf' - and are they telling the truth when they say it? They're definitely giving you information - you just need to work out if it's a bluff or not.

hS

[Nogrod]

That would seem to have a large effect on the Quarantined votes. How likely are the Innocents there to listen to a known baddie?
Well, most probably very little. :p

But like Legate said, we've seen some hilarious trolling going on in a dead thread were a wolf starts to run amok... And I think that's the way of least problems and most people gaining a longer and more satisfying game.

Without a "dead-thread" aka. Quarantine-Thread this time, the innocent "lynched" on D1 or killed on N2 gets to play just one Day and that's it: after all these years of not playing a game that's quite an anticlimax, to put it mildly...

One could say, that even if this is kind of a bad thing for a early-lynched wolf, it is not any worse than just being lynched in a game without a dead-thread (actually I'd say it's better) and that the wolf has anyway gotten the thrills of playing a wolf - which is more exciting than playing a normal villager on early Days.

So I wouldn't think of that as a problem.


Also I think those games where we've had the dead-thread trying to signal something to the living / sending their thoughts with delay (like the village gets to know what they did the next Day, or if someone visits there or whatever versions we've had) have mostly just not worked that well. Them being able instead to follow the village discussion almost all Day everyDay, and then giving an actual vote before the deadline (yet early enough the villagers have some time to pay heed to it), feels to me much more interesting to both the villagers and the dead (quarantined, that is).

[Nogrod]

As far as the seniority system goes: rather than pinning the timing down to a single person being available at the right moment, I'd suggest making a tie go to whichever person had the most veteran Quarantinee vote for them, out of the QTs who were involved in the tie.
That is actually a fair point: we can't be sure we have the most senior Quarantined person available if s/he hasn't voted for either or the tied candidates. So let's say that in a case of a tie in QT the most "veteran" quarantined player's (in sense of how early that person got there, that is) vote for either / any of the evenly voted is the tie-breaker.

[Galadriel55]

Something I wanna clarify: does the QT vote to empower a living vote, or casts a vote of their own independently of the living thread?

[A Little Green]

Late to the party, but count me in! Also can I say that I love the abbreviation QT as it makes the dead thread sound very cute :Merisu:

[Boromir88]

Yes....let's do it :D

Thanks Nog!

[Galadriel55]

Late to the party, but count me in! Also can I say that I love the abbreviation QT as it makes the dead thread sound very cute :Merisu:

I like that much better than my first association (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QT_interval)... :p

[Nogrod]

Nice too see you Greenie and Boro!

Something I wanna clarify: does the QT vote to empower a living vote, or casts a vote of their own independently of the living thread?
They are like one villager - and they have one vote.

Think of it like this (I'm not sure I got your question correctly). Every living villager has one vote each but the QT has one vote as a unit whatever the number of them are (and that is a result of their own "internal voting").

The QT is like one villager then, voting with the other villagers at the end of everyDay. And like a villager can give her/his vote any time of the Day, the QT gives it's vote at a certain time of the Day. I was thinking about two hours before the DL to be fair to both parties (the QT would have as long time as possible to see what happens on the Day they give their vote - and the villagers would have some decent time to pay heed to what the QT voted).


I think it could be very interesting if the game goes on for longer: as the number of people in QT arises in proportion to the living villagers, the weight of their vote also increases. For example an early game one vote from 15 votes (14 villagers remaining) is pretty insignificant, but one vote from four in the endgame (three villagers remaining) is quite huge indeed!


I love the abbreviation QT as it makes the dead thread sound very cute
Hehe. Didn't kind of vocalise it in my mind before you mentioned it. :)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

They are like one villager - and they have one vote.

Think of it like this (I'm not sure I got your question correctly). Every living villager has one vote each but the QT has one vote as a unit whatever the number of them are (and that is a result of their own "internal voting").

The QT is like one villager then, voting with the other villagers at the end of everyDay. And like a villager can give her/his vote any time of the Day, the QT gives it's vote at a certain time of the Day. I was thinking about two hours before the DL to be fair to both parties (the QT would have as long time as possible to see what happens on the Day they give their vote - and the villagers would have some decent time to pay heed to what the QT voted).
Sounds like a good idea. However, I wonder whether it may not be better to do the thing that has been done a few times in the past - that the Dead Thread (or in this case, QT) "empowers" a villager by voting for someone, and the person they vote for then gets, for instance, an extra weight for their vote - i.e. their vote counts as two.

I believe that sometimes this was done for the Day at hand, making it kind of more of a wild card for the living (suddenly, one player's vote counted as two and everyone realised it only at the narration); but sometimes it was also done for the next Day (and the villagers knew who was chosen?).

The advantages of this were among other things that the Dead could thus send the Living some messages, as in, not only empowering people in order to catch Wolves, but also to signal, say, "hey, you can trust person X" or "what X has been saying makes sense" etc. To be sure, it offered plenty of room for the Living (with the Wolves assisting merrily) to bicker about what exactly it was that the Dead were exactly trying to say etc. Sometimes however this mechanic got straightaway "hijacked" by the Living dictating the Dead what they should do (not that the Dead listened, if I remember correctly).

But I don't know honestly whether the option you presented (just giving a vote) may be better and more straightforward.

Just one more concern I wanted to mention - having a "QT DL" as you say, e.g. 2 hours before real DL is nice idea, it kind of equalizes the fact that the Dead can figure out a bit more than the Living with the fact that they won't have all the facts (usually lots of things can happen in the last 2 hours). And it MAY serve as an incentive for the Living to start voting from there - my only concern is whether the Living won't be reluctant to vote before the Dead vote. But not that people are usually in a hurry with their votes anyway.

[Galadriel55]

Sounds like a good idea. However, I wonder whether it may not be better to do the thing that has been done a few times in the past - that the Dead Thread (or in this case, QT) "empowers" a villager by voting for someone, and the person they vote for then gets, for instance, an extra weight for their vote - i.e. their vote counts as two.

I actually like the separate vote (as opposed to an empowering vote) better. I've never played in a dead thread game, but I followed them, and the empowerment did seem like more stress and complication than good use. Besides, the big debate in past games was how to use the vote to communicate information, as roles were not known. However, Roles will be known here, and the information left to convey is more vague (e.g. who we think the dead wolf's pack is, who the Seer dreamed as innocent two nights ago). I think it's cooler to let the dead keep voting a diluted vote that directly affects the tally.


By the way, what happens to the Gifteds when they are in quarantine? Can the Seer still dream? And how about Wolves - can dead Wolves PM amongst themselves?

[Thinlómien]

Ok I'm not diving into the rule discussion right now but:


Sally (if she can get logged in)
Macalaure (if his account will allow him to post)I hear Greenie and Kath had similar type issues and they both got them sorted by Esty who know which mod to ask to fix it. I'm sure no one will have to sit this one out just because of technical problems! :)

[Lalaith]

I'm really busy at work despite the lockdown...oh fine...count me in:rolleyes:

[Nogrod]

Sounds like a good idea. However, I wonder whether it may not be better to do the thing that has been done a few times in the past - that the Dead Thread (or in this case, QT) "empowers" a villager by voting for someone, and the person they vote for then gets, for instance, an extra weight for their vote - i.e. their vote counts as two.

...

The advantages of this were among other things that the Dead could thus send the Living some messages, as in, not only empowering people in order to catch Wolves, but also to signal, say, "hey, you can trust person X" or "what X has been saying makes sense" etc. To be sure, it offered plenty of room for the Living (with the Wolves assisting merrily) to bicker about what exactly it was that the Dead were exactly trying to say etc. Sometimes however this mechanic got straightaway "hijacked" by the Living dictating the Dead what they should do (not that the Dead listened, if I remember correctly).
That part in bold is just what I wanted to avoid. Back in those games those discussions took most of the air from the thread and people talked less about who to vote than how to best use the game mechanics and why the other thread should comply...

So yes, I was willing to make it more straightforward.


By the way, what happens to the Gifteds when they are in quarantine? Can the Seer still dream? And how about Wolves - can dead Wolves PM amongst themselves?
I think it has been the general rule that all the special abilities and advances the different gifts bring to people are negated in death aka. in quarantine. So no more dreams to the Seer, no more PM'ing with the other "Infectors" (wolves) by Night, no more hunting or rangering...



One more question about that QT-vote came to mind from your comments. Should it actually be just one hour before the DL they have to vote? In a normal game the action tends to pack into the last hour of the Day - or the last 1½ hours - if the Deadline is good for most people. I wouldn't want to leave it to the very end but would like to leave the Villagers some time to mull the QT vote over before the DL. On the other hand, the later the QT can follow the things folding out the more reasoned choices they can made - and the more fulfilling the game is for them.

Just remember, that a "more reasoned choice" doesn't equal "the right choice" :D



Talking of the Deadline...

As no-one wishes for an early morning Deadline (US late evening translates into early morning in Europe), I'd suggest we'd go for something like little bit before Midnight GMT. That would be Midnight or little after in Finland, little before in Continental Europe and an hour earlier in the UK - and something like afternoon in the Eastern US.

What do you think?

[Nogrod]

I'm really busy at work despite the lockdown...oh fine...count me in:rolleyes:
Oh yes!

Hehe. Now we have both Lalaith and Urwen in the game!

And I was kind of planning that the aim of the game (in non-rules sense of it) would be to change the Legendarium and save Urwen / Lalaith from death! But does it now have to be "both"? How shall I name that poor little girl in the narrations now? :smokin:

[Galadriel55]

One more question about that QT-vote came to mind from your comments. Should it actually be just one hour before the DL they have to vote? In a normal game the action tends to pack into the last hour of the Day - or the last 1½ hours - if the Deadline is good for most people. I wouldn't want to leave it to the very end but would like to leave the Villagers some time to mull the QT vote over before the DL. On the other hand, the later the QT can follow the things folding out the more reasoned choices they can made - and the more fulfilling the game is for them.

Just remember, that a "more reasoned choice" doesn't equal "the right choice" :D

The pros of an earlier QT vote is that it potentially gives information (whether correct or not) to the game thread - i.e. the Sick think that it's better to vote for X than Y. But the pros of a later (or even at deadline) QT vote is that it is more of a "thunderbolt from heaven" type of thing, to alter events but not the interactions at the end of the Day. The earlier you put it, the more it influences the living votes.

And I was kind of planning that the aim of the game (in non-rules sense of it) would be to change the Legendarium and save Urwen / Lalaith from death! But does it now have to be "both"? How shall I name that poor little girl in the narrations now? :smokin:

The true daughter of Hurin? ;)

[Loslote]

What if there's an extra win condition for the Dead Thread: "Your death was 'worth it' if The True Daughter of Hurin survives". Only the Dead know who that is, and they're voting to try to keep her alive. Could be a fun sub plot, and one that both villagers and wolves can work together on.

[Kath]

All the people in QT can, and hopefully will, use their Days discussing the matters and then, let's say two hours before the Deadline, they vote to whom they will give their vote that Day. So the quarantined have one vote, no matter how many they are.

The vote of the QT is then announced to the villagers immediately (two hours before the Dl, for example) and will be put down in the general tally of votes.
I think this is a great idea. I like the idea of a separate thread and that the vote is thrown at the Live Thread a little before the deadline. Like you say, there's often a flurry of activity right before the deadline and suddenly getting an extra vote will definitely make things interesting!

In terms of timings, I think a deadline of an hour before on the QT would give the LT enough time to dissect the vote to death before end of Day. :D

What if there's an extra win condition for the Dead Thread: "Your death was 'worth it' if The True Daughter of Hurin survives". Only the Dead know who that is, and they're voting to try to keep her alive. Could be a fun sub plot, and one that both villagers and wolves can work together on.
This sounds like such a fun idea! Gives the QT something extra to work towards as well.

[Nogrod]

What if there's an extra win condition for the Dead Thread: "Your death was 'worth it' if The True Daughter of Hurin survives". Only the Dead know who that is, and they're voting to try to keep her alive. Could be a fun sub plot, and one that both villagers and wolves can work together on.
And it might nicely meddle with the thinking of everyone in the gamethread... :p

I have been pondering how to make Urwen/Lalaith special (I was thinking of Morwen the Seer, Húrin the Ranger and little Túrin the haphazard Hunter who might accidentally turn things for the worse) and thinking how keeping her alive against the legend would be a nice touch - but this never occured to me!

I promise to give this a good thought.

[Brinniel]

Has it really been almost three years since I last played? Yeesh.

I could use some distraction from our current reality. Count me in. I may be a bit rusty, but then again, I suppose we all are... :smokin:

[Eönwë]

Ok, I’m in. It’s been too long.

[Urwen]

When will the game begin?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

That part in bold is just what I wanted to avoid. Back in those games those discussions took most of the air from the thread and people talked less about who to vote than how to best use the game mechanics and why the other thread should comply...

So yes, I was willing to make it more straightforward.
In that case, fair enough! If you took these into consideration, I'm up for it.


I think it has been the general rule that all the special abilities and advances the different gifts bring to people are negated in death aka. in quarantine. So no more dreams to the Seer, no more PM'ing with the other "Infectors" (wolves) by Night, no more hunting or rangering...
I think the Gifteds' abilities go without saying, they should not exist, especially since the quarantined still have the power to vote - otherwise a quarantined Seer could just spam everyone with names and that would be no fun.

The only thing I'm thinking about are the Wolves. Especially given that they are going to be vastly outnumbered by (this time known!) innocents, allowing them to PM (with only other quarantined Wolves, of course) might alleviate the ostracisation-feeling. Then again, it isn't such a big difference, plus if the first Wolf is quarantined alone for a long time, it won't change a thing. Most of all, it would be a narrative problem, how to explain that quarantined people still communicate. Unless you made it so that those awful people are breaking quarantine even inside the quarantine house and meeting with each other when other quarantined ones are sleeping. (Actually, that would be a reasonable narrative explanation... But whichever. Not being able to talk otherwise could give the Wolves an incentive to participate on the QT more actively.)


What if there's an extra win condition for the Dead Thread: "Your death was 'worth it' if The True Daughter of Hurin survives". Only the Dead know who that is, and they're voting to try to keep her alive. Could be a fun sub plot, and one that both villagers and wolves can work together on.
I like this idea. Something like that could be done.

In terms of timings, I think a deadline of an hour before on the QT would give the LT enough time to dissect the vote to death before end of Day. :D

The only thing I am dreading about it is that usually in a normal game, the Day goes like this: people post one page throughout the Day, then one hour before DL, they post two pages or more if something like a Seer-reveal happens. I am a little bit afraid that this could further tip the balance and make the last hour suddenly spammed with analyses and shouts of frustration about what in the name of the sons of Fëanor are the Dead thinking, voting this person. It may be fun, but it may be terrifying.

But I am up for that, just one more thing to consider.

[Thinlómien]

Okay, so I finally read the rules and I like them! I prefer the dead (or the quarantined) actually casting a vote instead of empowering someone - as people have said, that's more straightforward and a little less distracting for the living. So a good idea!

However, I have one suggestion for improvement. Nogrod said that the most veteran "dead" would get the role of the tie-breaker if the quarantined disagree. Okay, that's one option, and that would make being lynched on Day1 kind of a consolation prize because you sort of become the leader of the quarantine for the rest of the game (makes being killed on Night2 the sad fate, I guess :D).

But what about the most junior "dead" being the tie-breaker? This way it would change every Day, and possibly cause more chaos because the tie-breakers would have fresh grudges from the living thread in their minds. :smokin: Of course, here the problem is that two people die for every lynch (the lynch and the night kill), so not everyone would get a go as the tie-breaker anyway. But I would give the tie-breaker role always to the previous lynchee - if it's the night kill, it cannot be a wolf (which is a little boring), and furthermore it might make sense storywise (the strongest in the qurantine is the one who was quarantined the last without showing any symptoms).

Third option is of course that the mod randomises the outcome in case of a tie. Or that it's the first one to get the top amount of votes. We do need to decide on a tie rule for the living thread too, anyway...

Thoughts?

Also, if we count the two last signups *waves* and the two wights in purgatory (errr) with their locked accounts, that makes 18 players. :eek: So, 4 wolves, seer, ranger and hunter?

[Nogrod]

Welcome Brinniel and Eönwë, long time no see!


When will the game begin?
It seems we could start whenever we want to, as we seem to have more or less a full village already. I would suggest starting on Sunday or Monday. That would mean we'd have about three days to let Sally and Macalaure try and make it into the 'Downs and make posts, and for us to finish the last issues about the rules.


I have one suggestion for improvement. Nogrod said that the most veteran "dead" would get the role of the tie-breaker if the quarantined disagree. Okay, that's one option, and that would make being lynched on Day1 kind of a consolation prize because you sort of become the leader of the quarantine for the rest of the game
That was what I was thinking about: die first and have something nice as a reward for your tough luck. But your suggestion of picking the latest arrival to be the tiebreaker makes sense game-mechancs-wise too. So let's still think about that.

(Btw. let's also remember, that the tiebreaker naturally is one who has voted for either/any top-vote candidate, so it isn't necessarily the same person every Day.)


What do you think of tiebreaking among the living / healthy? It has traditionally been either the first to get the votes (basically the "original suspect") or the last one (basically the one who's "under heat" just before the decision"). They have a bit different effect on the game mechanics depending on the situation and I'm quite open to either one. I'd rather not randomize it (will do it, if you insist it being the best way to do it).


Also, if we count the two last signups *waves* and the two wights in purgatory (errr) with their locked accounts, that makes 18 players. So, 4 wolves, seer, ranger and hunter?
Yay!

With 18 players surely four wolv... erm... Infestors.

Seer, ranger and hunter naturally.

I know Lommy would love to have a Cobbler as well, and with a bigger village it would make sense to add a little bit to the variety.


If we go to 20 or over, when do you think it would be reasonable to add a fifth baddie or start thinking about some other special roles?

Do you have any reservations or ideas about the size of the Village in the first place? Should we define a roof for the number of players we'd take in?

[Galadriel55]

What do you think of a no lynch or both killed idea for a Game Thread tie? I feel that first votes is rather unpopular because it doesn't reflect the latest developments, and last votes has caused a lot of frustration with people refreshing the page, trying to get their vote in on DL:00.

[Nogrod]

What do you think of a no lynch or both killed idea for a Game Thread tie? I feel that first votes is rather unpopular because it doesn't reflect the latest developments, and last votes has caused a lot of frustration with people refreshing the page, trying to get their vote in on DL:00.
I have no strong feeling about this and would like to hear what the general opinion is. I kind of dislike the double-lynches or no-lynches - and kind of like the last minute frenzy, and the accompanied adrenaline rush, when people try to beat the clock at the last seconds (it's also quite telling sometimes, what people do in that frenzy - or say they tried to do). But yes, I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.


Two questions.

The Deadlines.

I checked the timezones. If the Deadline would be Midnight here in Finland (GMT/UTC +3) I could write the narrations immediately after the Day has ended. Pushing it any further might start giving me problems to stay up and fresh everyday (there will be days I really need to get up early). That would make it one hour earlier (11PM) in continental Europe, and two hours earlier in London (10PM).

In the US the deadline would be according to the Eastern Time -7 hours (from Finland) aka. 5PM (Central Time would then be 4PM).

That's if I read the Daylight Savings stuff correctly.

How do these sound for you?

Anyone from somewhere else?


Game-start / number of players

I asked Sally and Macalaure in Fb whether they'd have enough time to sort their 'Downs-account problems if we'd start with Night1 on Sunday-evening (Sunday afternoon in the US)? So that would be my suggestion as for now.

What do you think about the number of Villagers, should we set a limit or should we let everyone willing to join who does it before the game starts?

In principle it would be nice to let everyone willing to play in, as it has been such a long time since the previous game - and big games do have a certain craziness of their own. But exactly that: huge games are a bit crazy - and kind of call for more roles or extra-rules, which I think are quite not how we were thinking of this in the beginning (a nice small old school game for a change :rolleyes:).

But yes, I'm quite okay with a larger game as well - and am not exactly pushing for added roles (just add more "wolves" if there are more Villagers), but probably the Cobbler.

[Macalaure]

Reporting for duty!

[Huinesoron]

The Deadlines.

I checked the timezones. If the Deadline would be Midnight here in Finland (GMT/UTC +3) I could write the narrations immediately after the Day has ended. Pushing it any further might start giving me problems to stay up and fresh everyday (there will be days I really need to get up early). That would make it one hour earlier (11PM) in continental Europe, and two hours earlier in London (10PM).

In the US the deadline would be according to the Eastern Time -7 hours (from Finland) aka. 5PM (Central Time would then be 4PM).

That's if I read the Daylight Savings stuff correctly.

How do these sound for you?

Anyone from somewhere else?

Well, 10pm London time is fine by me. :) If the QT has its own deadline 2 hours earlier, is that going to cause issues for people in the mid-US, who'll be looking at a deadline right in the middle of the day?

hS

[Kath]

But what about the most junior "dead" being the tie-breaker? This way it would change every Day, and possibly cause more chaos because the tie-breakers would have fresh grudges from the living thread in their minds.
I really like this idea. You are right in that it means different people get to have a bit more of a role each day and it also means that the dynamics change every day as well, rather than it always being the veteran.

The Deadlines.

I checked the timezones. If the Deadline would be Midnight here in Finland (GMT/UTC +3) I could write the narrations immediately after the Day has ended. Pushing it any further might start giving me problems to stay up and fresh everyday (there will be days I really need to get up early). That would make it one hour earlier (11PM) in continental Europe, and two hours earlier in London (10PM).
This works nicely for me being a Brit!

[Lhunardawen]

The Deadlines.

I checked the timezones. If the Deadline would be Midnight here in Finland (GMT/UTC +3) I could write the narrations immediately after the Day has ended. Pushing it any further might start giving me problems to stay up and fresh everyday (there will be days I really need to get up early). That would make it one hour earlier (11PM) in continental Europe, and two hours earlier in London (10PM).

In the US the deadline would be according to the Eastern Time -7 hours (from Finland) aka. 5PM (Central Time would then be 4PM).

That's if I read the Daylight Savings stuff correctly.

How do these sound for you?

Anyone from somewhere else?
Southeast Asia; that's 5 AM for me. Le sigh. Such is life.

I shall read everything that's been discussed so far (with some difficulty, having no prior experience with a dead thread) before I can comment on the rules.

[Macalaure]

That would seem to have a large effect on the Quarantined votes. How likely are the Innocents there to listen to a known baddie?

Oh, you have no idea how much fun can be had as a known baddie in the dead thread. :D


Two cents or three

-So the dead have no extra knowledge outside of what dead gifteds may reveal?

-I'd prefer it if the quarantine vote is only revealed during the death narration. It wouldn't be much fun if a day's play just comes down to waiting to learn who the dead chose and then bandwaggon on that. And you know that's what's going to happen once a gifted is dead.

-If two wolves are dead, are they allowed to pm each other again?

-And if the QT lot essentially counts as one villager, can the living lynch the dead thread as a whole, too? :p


And sadly, any deadline works for me at the moment...

[Kath]

-If two wolves are dead, are they allowed to pm each other again?
That's a good question. Nog said that the Gifted abilities won't last into the QT but given everyone there will know who the wolves are anyway from the narrations I actually can't see that this would do much harm, and would be fun for the wolves to be able to wonder how their remaining fellows are getting on without giving anything away.

[Lhunardawen]

I like that much better than my first association (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QT_interval)...
Argh, you beat me to this. :p Also made me wonder if the Evil Breath causes death by cardiac dysrhythmia. (Hush, no bad words on the Downs!)

One more question about that QT-vote came to mind from your comments. Should it actually be just one hour before the DL they have to vote? In a normal game the action tends to pack into the last hour of the Day - or the last 1½ hours - if the Deadline is good for most people. I wouldn't want to leave it to the very end but would like to leave the Villagers some time to mull the QT vote over before the DL. On the other hand, the later the QT can follow the things folding out the more reasoned choices they can made - and the more fulfilling the game is for them.
Personally won't matter to me; I'll still be voting way before any of the quarantined or uninfected/suspected/probable cases. But if the Living are going to wait for the QT vote I suppose two hours would be better to leave them more than enough time to factor it in? It's bad enough that some people leave out their votes until right before the Day ends without the QT vote adding to the last-minute frenzy.

The only thing I'm thinking about are the Wolves. Especially given that they are going to be vastly outnumbered by (this time known!) innocents, allowing them to PM (with only other quarantined Wolves, of course) might alleviate the ostracisation-feeling. Then again, it isn't such a big difference, plus if the first Wolf is quarantined alone for a long time, it won't change a thing. Most of all, it would be a narrative problem, how to explain that quarantined people still communicate. Unless you made it so that those awful people are breaking quarantine even inside the quarantine house and meeting with each other when other quarantined ones are sleeping. (Actually, that would be a reasonable narrative explanation... But whichever. Not being able to talk otherwise could give the Wolves an incentive to participate on the QT more actively.)
I like the idea of quarantined wolves being able to PM each other. I don't think it tips the balance too much over to the dark side since their ability to converse doesn't necessarily translate to being able to manipulate the rest of the quarantined, but it would be interesting to see what havoc they can wreak together nonetheless.

I'M STILL A RELUCTANT BADDIE, just so we're clear. But this makes for an interesting story.

But what about the most junior "dead" being the tie-breaker? This way it would change every Day, and possibly cause more chaos because the tie-breakers would have fresh grudges from the living thread in their minds. Of course, here the problem is that two people die for every lynch (the lynch and the night kill), so not everyone would get a go as the tie-breaker anyway. But I would give the tie-breaker role always to the previous lynchee - if it's the night kill, it cannot be a wolf (which is a little boring), and furthermore it might make sense storywise (the strongest in the qurantine is the one who was quarantined the last without showing any symptoms).
I agree with this (especially the last point haha). It might get boring if it's always the same person who gets to break a tie, not to mention maybe a bit lopsided if the senior quarantined is a wolf. How often do ties occur in the dead thread in the past, anyhow?

What do you think of tiebreaking among the living / healthy? It has traditionally been either the first to get the votes (basically the "original suspect") or the last one (basically the one who's "under heat" just before the decision"). They have a bit different effect on the game mechanics depending on the situation and I'm quite open to either one. I'd rather not randomize it (will do it, if you insist it being the best way to do it).
I vote for the last one to get to the tie. Agreed, the last-minute frenzy can indeed be telling. I guess this might also better allow the QT vote to be factored into the final count, like for example if it happens that a lot of votes come in before the QT vote is revealed.

But yes, I'm quite okay with a larger game as well - and am not exactly pushing for added roles (just add more "wolves" if there are more Villagers), but probably the Cobbler.
Possibly unpopular opinion: Could we not have a Cobbler? Not just because I still have a grudge against the role (grumble grumble Estel in Werewolf VII grumble grumble), but also there might be so much to consider already for a supposedly simple comeback game. Or maybe it's just me and my nearly decade-long Werewolf-deprived brain.

-I'd prefer it if the quarantine vote is only revealed during the death narration. It wouldn't be much fun if a day's play just comes down to waiting to learn who the dead chose and then bandwaggon on that. And you know that's what's going to happen once a gifted is dead.
Hm. Excellent point. I vote for this.

++LHUNARDAWEN for flip-flopping

-And if the QT lot essentially counts as one villager, can the living lynch the dead thread as a whole, too? :p
Can we do this? Please? Please? :Merisu:

[Galadriel55]

Argh, you beat me to this. Also made me wonder if the Evil Breath causes death by cardiac dysrhythmia. (Hush, no bad words on the Downs!)

It's ok. We know the counter-curses: defibrillators, epinephrine, amiodarone, mag sulphate, and a performance of the ritual chest compression dance. :D

Can we do this? Please? Please? :Merisu:

Oh, but you know who's gonna get the Day 1 votes if we allow that... :D


I am having a bit too much fun, and the game hasn't even started!

[Lhunardawen]

It's ok. We know the counter-curses: defibrillators, epinephrine, amiodarone, mag sulphate, and a performance of the ritual chest compression dance. :D
To the tune of Stayin' Alive. Or The Imperial March. Whoops, wrong fandom.

Oh, but you know who's gonna get the Day 1 votes if we allow that... :D
Does this mean we can lynch the Mod God? :eek:


Sorry, chat skwerlz. Happy Deathday, Barrow-Downs!

[Nogrod]

Great to see you Macalaure!

And oh yes, sorry Lhuna, I forgot your seriously disadvantaged position in the global map when thinking of timing things with mostly European / North American crowd. Even if you're probably quite used to it already, it's sad still.

I'd prefer it if the quarantine vote is only revealed during the death narration. It wouldn't be much fun if a day's play just comes down to waiting to learn who the dead chose and then bandwaggon on that. And you know that's what's going to happen once a gifted is dead.
Ok. This could actually be a problem. Thanks for pointing it out Mac.

If the Seer dies late in the game and has not managed to reveal anything - or has left just some hints about her dreams, then there surely is a possibility of that problem. Although, if she doesn't have a wolf / wolves on her list, then it's not that a big one - and anyway, the wolves cold use the situation to their advantage (the seer has no "known wolf" and the QT votes for an innocent - the wolves leap on that: "let's follow the Seer!"). Hmm... let's think about that as well.


I'm all for the quarantined wolves being able to PM each other (by Night), but not to the living ones.

Also I think two hours before the DL might b better time for the QT-vote - unless 2-3PM - is too early for many Americans.

Let me hear your thoughts on the cobbler-role. We can include or not, just as the majority wishes.

[Inziladun]

If the Seer dies late in the game and has not managed to reveal anything - or has left just some hints about her dreams, then there surely is a possibility of that problem. Although, if she doesn't have a wolf / wolves on her list, then it's not that a big one - and anyway, the wolves cold use the situation to their advantage (the seer has no "known wolf" and the QT votes for an innocent - the wolves leap on that: "let's follow the Seer!"). Hmm... let's think about that as well.

Isn't that just classic WW shenanigans? ;)

Also I think two hours before the DL might b better time for the QT-vote - unless 2-3PM - is too early for many Americans.

No more problematic that the DL itself.

Let me hear your thoughts on the cobbler-role. We can include or not, just as the majority wishes.

My experience has been that it's tremendous fun to be a Cobbler, and notably annoying for the Village who must deal with xem. If Wolves are three, have one. If an extra Wolf is added, I'm fine either way.

[Kath]

If the Seer dies late in the game and has not managed to reveal anything - or has left just some hints about her dreams, then there surely is a possibility of that problem. Although, if she doesn't have a wolf / wolves on her list, then it's not that a big one - and anyway, the wolves cold use the situation to their advantage (the seer has no "known wolf" and the QT votes for an innocent - the wolves leap on that: "let's follow the Seer!"). Hmm... let's think about that as well.
Well, could it be that at the point at which the Seer dies, the QT vote becomes revealed only at the narration but until that point it's revealed 2 hours before the LT deadline.

I'm all for the quarantined wolves being able to PM each other (by Night), but not to the living ones.
Agreed!

Let me hear your thoughts on the cobbler-role. We can include or not, just as the majority wishes.
I must admit I'm not fussed either way.

[Thinlómien]

I did tell Nog I'd love to have a cobbler, it's true, but I think it really boils down to just being a handy tool to balance the game, it's like half a wolf.

18 players? I'd say four wolves, no cobbler.

19 players? Four wolves and a cobbler, I'd say.

20 players? I would at least consider five wolves (holy schmuck) in which case absolutely no cobbler! Or else, 20 players with just 4 wolves definitely needs a cobbler.

[Pitchwife]

And if the QT lot essentially counts as one villager, can the living lynch the dead thread as a whole, too?
What is dead can never die but rises stronger and more contagious.


++junior dead as tiebreaker

++including a cobbler


As for a tie in the game thread, my usual position on this is 'last thought, best thought', but if we start with a large village of 20+ people double lynches could be a nice way of speeding things up and making the QT*, er, livelier.


*(I think I'm going to refer to the quarantined as Cuties henceforth.)

[Macalaure]

*(I think I'm going to refer to the quarantined as Cuties henceforth.)

We should take it one step further and refer to them as Cooties.

And we all know there's no disease more frightening! :eek:

[Thinlómien]

I would somewhat advocate for both only revealing the qt vote at the deadline, and the first candidate to reach the tie to be lynched for one reason - both of these decrease the importance of the last minute voting. If everything of importance happens in the two hours before the deadline, it makes the game concentrate even more than usual in those hours which is not good for those in unusual timezones, those who might be at work during the deadline, or those who might already be asleep by then. The deadline is never perfect for everybody, so I would try making being around it rather less than more important if I have options.

But I guess it depends. Personally I'm out of work until the end of the month at least so I have nothing else to do than to stay awake all night and play werewolf :smokin: How are the US/Canada 'downers feeling about the deadline?

[Rikae]

Finally got this account up and running again! Can I still join?

[Nogrod]

Finally got this account up and running again! Can I still join?
Absolutely!

Good to see you!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Whoa, this is going to be one amazing village... :smokin:

And as for the game rules discussion, I'd also be for making the tie-breaker the first tied vote, not the last, for the same reasons Lommy stated. In most game I have played, that proved to be the better option.

Depending on the final number of people, I think we can have quite a lot of Wolves. Let's not forget that it kinda raises the chances for at least one succesful lynch early on, which in turn may help identifying the others, thus compensating for any numbers imbalance.

A Cobbler may be good, but I'd perhaps fear for them being sort of a third wheel in the QT, even more than the Wolves themselves.

[Loslote]

I'm neutral on the Cobbler, I don't dislike the idea but I feel like playing cobbler is probably not the dream Werewolf experience for the first game back in a long time. Anyway, I'm in US Mountain Time now, so I believe that puts the deadline at 3pm my time. I will definitely be awake. Occasionally I could be in a Zoom meeting at the deadline, but I'd probably still be able to post. :p I like the idea of the QT vote being revealed in the narration, especially if the QTs have info (Seers) or ulterior motives (keeping "Urwen" alive, if that ends up happening), I wouldn't want the living to give all their focus to trying to figure out what the QTs want.

[Nogrod]

Just for the fun of it.

I've been reading the CoH to find everyone Tolkien gave a name in Dor-lómin, living there during the Evil Breath aka. just before Nirnaeth Arnoediad. Adding to those the people who are told to live there later under easterling-rule (during Morwen's time there and when Túrin came back) brought me to 12 characters. Then I added the three outlaws Túrin hooked up with years later, who were said to come originally from Dor-lómin (and who I'd gather were not outlaws before exactly these troubled times and Nirnaeth), to reach 15.

So unless someone comes up with some I have missed or any other ones from some "unfinished papers" that have not ended up in the CoH, please let me know. Otherwise I'll fill the rest with some like "Aerin's mother"...


I thought first it would be fun to give you all new identities for the game to use (and then randomize the roles on top of that), but then thought against it for two reasons. Firstly, it might get pretty confusing in a big village if people had two nomers (try reading a mammoth Russian novel!). Secondly it would be too easy to hide behind the character-play: "I'll vote Andróg because he's such a shady person" (even if disease doesn't, at least normally, pick on grounds of moral integrity, one could argue that one caused by Morgoth sure could :rolleyes:).

So I'll be using them basically just in the narratives (and one will thus be revealed in every narration). If the Cuties would like to use them in their own discussions, have your fun with them.

So here's who we have in the village (a few to be added). The characterisations are from Tolkien, I have added nothing of my own.

Dramatis Personae

Húrin, of the House of Hador, master of Dor-lómin
Morwen Eledhwen, of the House of Bëor, Húrin's wife
Túrin, their son, 5-years old
Urwen “Lalaith”, their daughter, 3-years old
Sador “Labadal”, Húrin’s one-legged woodwright
Ragnir, Húrin’s blind servant
Túrin’s nurse
Aerin, a kinswoman of Húrin
Indor, Aerin’s father
Gethron, valiant old man
Grithnir, valiant old man
Asgon, strong and hardy villager
Andróg, a hard-hearted man
Algund, an old warrior
Forweg, a big and bold man

[satansaloser2005]

Fixed it! Sign me up. :)

[Brinniel]

How are the US/Canada 'downers feeling about the deadline?
It would be preferable for me to bump the deadline by an hour or two (10 or 11pm GMT). The currently proposed deadline is at the same time that my workday ends and it would be nice to be able to give the last hour or so of each Day my undivided attention. But if that is not possible, I will try to manage.

[Huinesoron]

Dramatis Personae

Húrin, of the House of Hador, master of Dor-lómin
Morwen Eledhwen, of the House of Bëor, Húrin's wife
Túrin, their son, 5-years old
Urwen “Lalaith”, their daughter, 3-years old
Sador “Labadal”, Húrin’s one-legged woodwright
Ragnir, Húrin’s blind servant
Túrin’s nurse
Aerin, a kinswoman of Húrin
Indor, Aerin’s father
Gethron, valiant old man
Grithnir, valiant old man
Asgon, strong and hardy villager
Andróg, a hard-hearted man
Algund, an old warrior
Forweg, a big and bold man

-Huor, brother of Hurin
-Rian, cousin of Morwen (they won't be married for another three years).

There's also a possibility Emeldir, mother of Beren, is still there. She was the one who led Morwen and Rian to Dor-lomim, and she'd only be 63 or so in the Plague Year. Nothing at all is said of her after her departure from Dorthonion other than that she reached Brethil, but it's certainly plausible.

Hareth, mother of Hurin and Huor, certainly should still be alive! She's only in her 40s or 50s, and it's not like her husband died of natural causes.

We know from Hurin and Huor that the children of the Lords of Dor-lomin were usually fostered in Brethil. It's hard to see how that could not be a reciprocal arrangement. You could argue that the Bragollach made it too dangerous, but if not, you have Brandir the Lame (age 4), great-grandson of the current Chieftain of the Haladin but in the direct line.

For that matter, Brandir's aunt and uncle, Hunleth and Hundad (children of the Chieftain's younger son Hundar) are 26 & 22 in 469; we know Hurin was still fostered at 16, so Hundad at least could be hanging out. Heck, Tolkien specifically outs him (through his son) as a coward, so he could just be scared - sorry, 'appropriately cautious' - of the trip home. (He'd also officially be 'fostered' by a man only six years older than him, which is hilarious.)

One last one... Gildis, wife of Hador Lorindal, grandmother of Hurin. Her husband would only be 79 in the Plague Year (were he not long dead), and wives of noblemen are often younger than their husbands. She could be of an age with Emeldir, and easily still alive.

Some of these are a bit of a stretch, but they're there if you want them. :)

hS

[Nogrod]

THE Ka and Sally!

What a party this is turning out to be!


And thanks for nice suggestions hS.

I was actually thinking of one possible narrative sub-plot last night, namely that Halmir had promised the House of Haleth would join the Union of Maedhros, but he died a year before Nirnaeth, so he must have been planning things before that - and surely he'd consult the brothers Húrin and Huor? And where would that take place? Naturally at Húrin's place!

Halmir would take his son and heir Haldir with him to be sure - and Glóredhel would insist she joins to meet their dear foster-children. And they would have naturally set on the trip (probably visiting other villages on the road) before there were any news of the Evil Breath...

That plan would then also make it possible to add Huor (and Hareth and Rían) in the village.

Putting Brandir as a foster-child to Húrin's village was an excellent idea. I'm so going to use that!

Let's see how many do we need (we're at 21 players already!) and how big a revision of the Beleriand Legendarium are we willing to risk. (think of Húrin and Huor dying already before Nirnaeth!) ;)



Let's close one deal already now. We could possibly start the game already today, but as we have spoken of Sunday, let's stick with it so that no-one misses the start.

So Night1 starts on Sunday evening / afternoon, depending on where you live (and for Lhuna, on Monday).

Any comments about the exact DL are welcomed (thanks Brinn for letting me know your situation: I could possibly push the DL one hour further, but let's still hear if there are other wishes, or ones to support the move).

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Two questions.

The Deadlines.

I checked the timezones. If the Deadline would be Midnight here in Finland (GMT/UTC +3) I could write the narrations immediately after the Day has ended. Pushing it any further might start giving me problems to stay up and fresh everyday (there will be days I really need to get up early). That would make it one hour earlier (11PM) in continental Europe, and two hours earlier in London (10PM).

In the US the deadline would be according to the Eastern Time -7 hours (from Finland) aka. 5PM (Central Time would then be 4PM).

That's if I read the Daylight Savings stuff correctly.

How do these sound for you?

Anyone from somewhere else?




Deadline sounds perfect, but I could live with it being pushed.

I have no opinion on the details of the rules. I am sure I will enjoy the ride no matter what, even if it will leave me dazed and confused.

[Lhunardawen]

So Night1 starts on Sunday evening / afternoon, depending on where you live (and for Lhuna, on Monday).

Any comments about the exact DL are welcomed (thanks Brinn for letting me know your situation: I could possibly push the DL one hour further, but let's still hear if there are other wishes, or ones to support the move).
Thank you, kind sir. Unfortunate place on the globe, yes, but like you said I'm already used to it.

Pushing the deadline back an hour will just make my vote come earlier in the Day. No problem with me.

I am sure I will enjoy the ride no matter what, even if it will leave me dazed and confused.
Ditto.

Looks like I have one day to reorient myself to CoH. :cool:

[A Little Green]

I have no opinion on the details of the rules. I am sure I will enjoy the ride no matter what, even if it will leave me dazed and confused. This is more or less how I feel too, but just for the sake of appearing constructive:

Re: cobbler - I don't have a preference either way, as I don't like being one myself but find it quite entertaining when someone else is :D

Re: deadline - suggested 10 PM GMT (midnight Finnish time) is doable, though I probably won't be around that late every Day - and even less often if it's pushed one hour later since 1 AM is already very late for me. But more importantly, since there's no DL that's going to work for everyone, I second Lommy's suggestion of trying to keep all the important action from happening at or around that time where possible. So -

Re: tie breakers - I'd be happy with either first to get the votes or even *gasp* double lynches to keep things interesting. :eek: And likewise I'd like to avoid giving extra weight to last minute voting flurries so preferably not lynching the last person to get the votes in case of a tie.

Also did I mention how happy I am to be back here with you all? <3

[Galadriel55]

After a bit of searching I finally found the button for invisible mode. It has been too long since I did that. :D


I like the idea of a cobbler in this game, particularly since there are a lot of people and I think it would be more fun with an extra cobbler baddie than just a wolf baddie.

I have no input on the DL. I have a feeling that I am gonna overextend myself between school, work, babysitting, and this, and probably won't be able to sit around refreshing the page for updates anyways, and depending on the day my posts may be bountiful (work :Merisu:) or sparse and early (babysitting).

[Kath]

After a bit of searching I finally found the button for invisible mode. It has been too long since I did that. :D
Oh my goodness, I had entirely forgotten about the need for that! For those of us with poor memories, could you explain how?!

[Nogrod]

Kath (and others who have forgotten it).

Go to: User CP -> Edit Options -> Use invisible mode


I have updated the first post of this thread with some general rules. Until Sunday-evening they are all negotiable. I'll add the rules for the specific roles a bit later.


We had a little chat (Lommy, Greenie, Legate and myself) and came to a conclusion that with 21 players (Whoa!) we need 5 "wolves"!

[Lalaith]

Nogs- you could always do a cheeky rewrite the legendarium - Lalaith and Urwen could be twins?

[Thinlómien]

I don't have much to add except holy gandalf I'm so excited in start in only a bit more than 24h :eek::eek:

Also five wolves? :eek:

(Even though as Nogrod said, we did the maths in our family video call today, and if there were just four it would be pretty impossible for the wolves to win. It just sounds like an insane number!)

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Nogs- you could always do a cheeky rewrite the legendarium - Lalaith and Urwen could be twins?

Plot twist - what if there were two girls originally, and in truth, only one of them died while the other one survived, and typically for his tragic story full of misunderstandings, Túrin never realised that his sister was, in fact, alive the whole time.

[Galadriel55]

Plot twist - what if there were two girls originally, and in truth, only one of them died while the other one survived, and typically for his tragic story full of misunderstandings, Túrin never realised that his sister was, in fact, alive the whole time.

Urwen is dead, but of Lalaith speak no more? Hmm. :D

[Nogrod]

Okay. There is now a bench-mark post in the Game Thread showing the planned Deadline. It is posted exactly 9PM GMT/UTC.

To those who love to misread, it is not "Interlude, or a second breakfast" (or even "elevensies or a second breakfast"). :)


A few little things.

Remember to check your PM-box - that there is room for messages there. When Night1 starts in 24 hours, I'll be sending all the special people a PM on their roles.

If you do not receive a PM from me in 24 hours, you are an ordinary (healthy) Villager whose job is not let the Evil Breath of Morgoth to get the better of you.

So don't ask in the Discussion Thread whether I have posted the roles yet... :confused:


Also I thought of adding a minor thing just to give one player some extra bloodpressure for the game. I'm thinking of telling Urwen / Lalaith (the character in this story, not either of the nicks) that s/he is her.

So an extra goal for the village is to keep U/L safe - and the one playing U/L will know it is him/her whom everyone is trying to keep safe!

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Also I thought of adding a minor thing just to give one player some extra bloodpressure for the game. I'm thinking of telling Urwen / Lalaith (the character in this story, not either of the nicks) that s/he is her.

So an extra goal for the village is to keep U/L safe - and the one playing U/L will know it is him/her whom everyone is trying to keep safe!

Goal for the innocents, you mean?

But it sounds potentially explosive - as in, another venue for someone (including the real Urwen/Lalaith) to go shouting "wait! Don't lynch me! I'm Urwen!"

It sounds like an interesting concept, but I smell more potential problems (or rather, further confusion created).

[Nogrod]

Well, there is one more chance for the wolves to play a high risk - high reward -game. But until it is at the very end of the game, that probably is not going to be believed by anyone, as the real U/L wouldn't want to shed the light on her as that would mean more or less certain death in a Night or two. For U/L to be quarantined is a loss of a kind, but her speaking it out would mean also a very bad situation to the whole village the maingame-wise - so she would probably use some discretion.

But yes, that was just an idea. If others share Legate's concern / show why my argument is bad, I'm ready to cancel the idea.


On other issues. With 21 villagers right now I have added seven characters to the village (and taken one off). They are, with short description to those who don't remember them.

On their way to Húrin's village:

Old Halmir, of the House of Haleth, Warden of the Haladin
Haldir, the heir of Halmir, chieftain of the Haladin
Glóredhel, of the House of Hador, Haldir’s wife

Hareth, of the house of Haleth, Húrin’s & Huor’s mom, Haldir’s sister
Huor, brother of Húrin
Rían, of the House of Bëor, wife of Huor

Also, already in the village we have:

Brandir, Haldir's grandchild, fosterchild in Húrin's house, later called "the lame"


I did drop Indor, Aerin's father, from the list for the time being as he's only mentioned once in the CoH and nothing else is told about him but that Aerin was his daughter.

If there is still someone to join, I will add him back to the list.

[Galadriel55]

Well, there is one more chance for the wolves to play a high risk - high reward -game. But until it is at the very end of the game, that probably is not going to be believed by anyone, as the real U/L wouldn't want to shed the light on her as that would mean more or less certain death in a Night or two. For U/L to be quarantined is a loss of a kind, but her speaking it out would mean also a very bad situation to the whole village the maingame-wise - so she would probably use some discretion.

So ensuring U/L's survival is a secondary goal for the village, and killing her is the secondary goal for the wolves? That could work. It's not too complex of a subplot, and it doesn't drastically change the game dynamics. Primary goals still remain the same, and this is a bonus.

[Huinesoron]

So ensuring U/L's survival is a secondary goal for the village, and killing her is the secondary goal for the wolves? That could work. It's not too complex of a subplot, and it doesn't drastically change the game dynamics. Primary goals still remain the same, and this is a bonus.

So she's basically a powerless Gifted role, whose status at the end can make a loss (by either team) a little less painful?

An alternate but related idea just occurred to me, which I thought I'd put out there: she could be an instance of the Innocent Child power. As I recall it, the IC's ability is that they can at any time get the Mod to publically confirm their status as the Innocent Child - a sort of free Seer check, but with the obvious proviso that the wolves know who you are as well.

I personally think the 'protect/kill U/L' is probably more interesting, but if people are concerned this is another option.

A third option, and the one I thought was originally discussed, is that the QT is the one that wants to protect UL. Villager or Infector, it doesn't matter - none of them want to see the little girl wind up in their plague house. Meanwhile, the living don't care, except insofar as it colours their reading of what the QT is up to.

hS

[Pitchwife]

Urwen is dead, but of Lalaith speak no more? Hmm. :D
Lalaith, as we all know, survived to conquer Angband with her flock of mutant geese and defeat Morgoth by sticking a lizard in his pillow.

But it sounds potentially explosive - as in, another venue for someone (including the real Urwen/Lalaith) to go shouting "wait! Don't lynch me! I'm Urwen!"
Now what exactly do you mean by real in this context, given that we have both among the players?

It sounds like an interesting concept, but I smell more potential problems (or rather, further confusion created).
Exactly. The whole U/L idea is, pardon the pun, sick, and I love it.

That said, I like Hui's Innocent Child idea too.

[satansaloser2005]

I've messaged a handful of other wights in hopes they might join us. I've so missed you all! <3

As for the deadline, I have no horse in the race, as I can vote whenever.

I love this game idea, and the application of the dead thread is fantastic. Three cheers to Nogrod and company! I do have one question on the dead thread, though perhaps I missed it: Does this mean roles will be revealed upon death, or will that remain secret?

On the topic of U/L, I think an additional goal for the quarantined would be fun. However, if we never who she is, or if she's one of the first killed, it doesn't affect the game too much, so it wouldn't be an unbalancing factor by any means.

And of course we always need a cobbler, regardless of how frequently people assume it's me. ;)

Tomorrow can't come soon enough! :Merisu:


x'd with our lovely Pitchwife

[Galadriel55]

Now what exactly do you mean by real in this context, given that we have both among the players?

And speaking of that, what can we call the role to differentiate it from the players? Just keep going U/L to indicate it's neither player but either name?

Does this mean roles will be revealed upon death, or will that remain secret?

Yes, the idea is to reveal roles so as to not overcomplicate things on the Game Thread.

[THE Ka]

Hey sorry for the late check-in, but had to refresh myself since it's been several years.

I've never played a game with a cobbler role, but I do enjoy the idea of it in this set up. Maybe to help balance out the ordo to wolf ratio? Echoing Legate's concerns about the numbers per role. We may have quite enough players to set it at six? Or just add a cobbler to keep it balanced in the sense that they could inadvertently help wolves or do nothing to tip the scales.

Just to be clear, the voting deadline is settling on 9PM GMT for the game and 7PM GMT for the QT? Either time works for me, I'd just not like to be late being in the Pacific.

Thank you again for letting me join, hopefully I survive this time. ;)

[Shastanis Althreduin]

There's a distinct lack of Nerwen, but I'd like to join in, if you'll have me. :)

[Thinlómien]

There's a distinct lack of Nerwen, but I'd like to join in, if you'll have me.Yay! And agreed about lack of Nerwen, but idk where she is roaming... if she (or any other willing player) appears too late, then I guess we'll just be forced to play another game after this. :Merisu:

As for the U/L, my first reaction was "please no more compliations, plus it isn't such an interesting role" but ehhh... I guess it doesn't matter much either way? :D

Okay so we're now at 22. Does that mean cobbler time? :smokin: Or only if we happen to get a 23rd player?

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Now what exactly do you mean by real in this context, given that we have both among the players?

Very simple. There is a difference between Urwen/Lalaith (the way I wrote it) and Urwen/Lalaith (the players). That could be easy enough to distinguish, if people can make sure they check their bolding?

And speaking of that, what can we call the role to differentiate it from the players? Just keep going U/L to indicate it's neither player but either name?

Or this.


Exactly. The whole U/L idea is, pardon the pun, sick, and I love it.

That said, I like Hui's Innocent Child idea too.

The Innocent Child is a very interesting concept, never heard about it before. But the original idea, if people do not have a problem with it, is okay too as an extra objective. Just if it doesn't make an already huuuuuuge game too much bigger and more complicated and lenghten the already long thread by another five pages of discussing whether to care about U/L at all on Day 1 alone.

[Nogrod]

Good to see you too Shasta!

And we're up to 22... with this number we'll add a cobbler. any more signing in's on these last hours before the game starts will lead to a consideration of exchanging that cobbler to a one more Infector ("wolf").


What I thought about telling the player whom I'd designate as "narration's U/L" (one more way of making the distinction) was just to give one player more pressure aka. fun - and maybe give the QT one more issue to mull over (I liked hS's idea that it would be especially up to the QT to save her). Now we might just make a ruling that with this quite special role (being a "secondary winning condition" for the villagers - or just QT - or "consolation prize" for the baddies) there could be a special rule also: that the person made to be U/L is not allowed to reveal or claim it. Or we could go with the Innocent Child -idea because that is nothing anyone would try to fake. Although in that case (with practically one free Seer-dream, albeit a dangerous one for the secondary winning condition), I think we might do well to think of the balance once more.

But that is something we need to think anyway, a least if there are any more people joining (looking forwards to seeing Nerwen entering the Thread).



We need some time to decide on the final ratios of different roles, and I need some to make thorough enough randomization of the roles. So let's decide here and now, that the latest hour for anyone to join the game is 6PM GMT/UTC today (aka. three hours before Night1 begins). So that's more or less like 7 hours from now.

Meanwhile, please let me know your thoughts on any of the matters we have discussed thus far. We need to fix them before Night1.

[Nogrod]

Two hours to the DL to join the game!


I have added three sections to the Rules (in the first post), concerning voting, technical things and then the relation of narratives, characters and players. Please go and check.

Any more rules you think we need to state?


Open questions - depending also on the final number of players - are the number of Infectors, using the Cobbler and/or Innocent Child (or a version of it). Depending on the last one, we need to define the kind of "secondary goals" (or the lack of them).

Any others that come to mind?

[Huinesoron]

Two hours to the DL to join the game!


I have added three sections to the Rules (in the first post), concerning voting, technical things and then the relation of narratives, characters and players. Please go and check.

Any more rules you think we need to state?


Open questions - depending also on the final number of players - are the number of Infectors, using the Cobbler and/or Innocent Child (or a version of it). Depending on the last one, we need to define the kind of "secondary goals" (or the lack of them).

Any others that come to mind?

Thank you so much for staying on top of this. :) It's gonna be fun...

I have no opinions on the Infector/Cobbler question (not enough experience to form one). For U/L, my vote (or non-vote?) would go first to 'anyone sent the QT before she dies has a secondary goal to keep her alive'; after that I don't think I have a preference.

hS

[Boromir88]

I am uber pumped and excited. Thanks Nogrod for organizing this and everyone who has joined. :D

[Thinlómien]

Nog, I think you can just decide the remaining rules and everyone will just be happy to roll with it. :)

[Nogrod]

So here we are.


22 players. :cool:


1 Seer
1 Ranger
1 Hunter

+

5 Infectors

+

1 Innocent Child
1 Cobbler

+

12 Innocent (healthy) Villagers


Thinking behind this:

Innocent Child and Cobbler kind of "cancel each other out" (in the end they can benefit either side but their purpose is to benefit opposite sides)

That would leave a ratio of 5:20 aka. 1:4.

Interpolate that and it means the same as 3 wolves in a 12 player game or 4 wolves in a 16 player game. That's a wee-little bit heavy ratio from the villagers POV, but then again the QT might actually help the innocents in the later stages of the game, so I'd say that's just the right ratio.


I'm now going to check everything and then go randomizing the lists in my favorite random.org. -site. Whether it is true or whatever it means, I just love their description of what they do on their website: "The randomness comes from atmospheric noise, which for many purposes is better than the pseudo-random number algorithms typically used in computer programs".

So you are being exposed to atmospheric noise! :eek:

[Nogrod]

I have made yet some additions to the rules, basically victory conditions and rules for special roles (including the revelation of which characters are in which role).

It should be there now. Notify me if I have forgotten something.


I thought it decent to notify everyone of their role, so I'll still write a message to the innocent (heatlhy) Villagers and start then dealing the PM's to everyone. So even the innocents will receive a personal PM of their role and some might get one already before the Night1 officially begins.

Starting of Night1 is signalled by a N1 narration appearing to the Game Thread.


See you all in-game in about 24 hours and 45 minutes!

Those with special roles, do not hesitate to contact me if you have anything to ask.

[Nogrod]

All the roles should be dealt now!

If you haven't gotten a PM from me, please do PM me back about it.

It's Night1 now.


So,

Infectors, do start your scheming together. As you know full well, there will be no pick toNight, but get yourselves ready for the game.

Seer: PM me your first dream at 8PM GMT/UTC tomorrow the latest.

Hunter: you may give me a name you'll hunt already during the Night but there's no rush for it. I need one only before Day1 ends, so take your time.

All others, try to sleep well. The troubles are ahead, not yet here and now. :p

[Inziladun]

A friendly reminder to all that Invisible Mode is strongly advised. ;)

[Galadriel55]

Not sure if this has been said but I didn't see it reading over the rules post: is the Hunter logical? And can the Ranger self-protect or protect people twice in a row?

[Nogrod]

Not sure if this has been said but I didn't see it reading over the rules post: is the Hunter logical? And can the Ranger self-protect or protect people twice in a row?
It seems I haven't written that stuff to anyone else but the gifteds themselves. Let me elaborate those in a moment (just now in a bit of a hurry).

[Nogrod]

Ok. I added the following rules to the Rules-Post.

- The Seer learns all the roles.

- The Ranger can’t protect the same person two Nights in a row and can’t protect himself.

- If the Hunter is targeted by Night he will fight and attack whomever he has chosen to hunt (so he's the "illogical hunter") – both will be turned into the QT in the morning. If the Hunter is voted to be quarantined at the end of a Day, he will take with him anyone he has chosen, whoever that is.


NB: THERE WAS A SIGNIFICANT CHANGE TO THE HUNTER ROLE (My bad, I remembered the traditional role incorrectly.)

[Nogrod]

Just wanted to share my weird feelings.

A couple of years ago I wouldn't have predicted we're playing Werewolf again, especially with this huge a Village. Then again I wouldn't have predicted a global pandemic that would derail the everyday life for all of us on this level either.

But maybe it is exactly like this: when we face adversities, we find new and old ways to confirm our togetherness, and well, seek and find comfort with other people amidst agonies of many sorts.

And all this reminds me of the quote by Mr. Martin Luther King Jr. “We may have all come on different ships, but we’re in the same boat now.”

So let's all enjoy this boat ride we're starting together in a moment!

Delve into the game, think, speak, communicate... Have fun with all the wonderful people sharing this adventure with you!

[Thinlómien]

Just wanted to share my weird feelings.

A couple of years ago I wouldn't have predicted we're playing Werewolf again, especially with this huge a Village. Then again I wouldn't have predicted a global pandemic that would derail the everyday life for all of us on this level either.

But maybe it is exactly like this: when we face adversities, we find new and old ways to confirm our togetherness, and well, seek and find comfort with other people amidst agonies of many sorts.

And all this reminds me of the quote by Mr. Martin Luther King Jr. “We may have all come on different ships, but we’re in the same boat now.”

So let's all enjoy this boat ride we're starting together in a moment!

Delve into the game, think, speak, communicate... Have fun with all the wonderful people sharing this adventure with you!<3 <3 <3 Thank you for making this possible and enjoy watching us squabble! :p

[Nogrod]

I've changed my mind about the QT. It will be open for discussion also during the Nights. Limiting the discussion there to Daytime felt quite artificial.

[Boromir88]

Seconded, thank you Nog for starting a game.

I actually hope there’s enough interest and time for another one! Although here in the US, things are starting to open back up. I guess we’ll see what time allows and only enjoy this game going on in the present.

[Nogrod]

I suggest we should have the discussion in this “Discussion Thread”, but whatever and where-ever. Let’s try to keep it in one Thread anyway.

I suggest this one.

[Boromir88]

Never underestimate a final wolf, cornered and seeing no path to victory. Given there was no way to escape, figured it would be ok to skip the formality and what would have been anti-climatic waiting for the QT to confirm Brinn's dream (if I had killed her). So, decided to deprive you nasty villagers of your Innocent children and have NogMod end it on a final marvelous narration. :D

Major kudos to Brinn on a fine game, when you figure the infectors played really well during the day turns.

I'm sure there will be a lot of reveals of what went on "behind the scenes" and will post some of my messages here. Around Night 2 or 3 Lhuna asked what innocents were I going to ally myself with. I chose Lommy I feel I have a good read on and figured ordo from Day 1 (although now I'm going to have to avoid the punches and pots and pans *ducks*) and Brinn because I thought I could sell that G55 and Huey were messing with us with their QT votes. Which was the ultimate downfall, because there an infector was protecting the seer from the very beginning and Brinn's refusal to reveal, despite all the tricks we were throwing out there. Well done. The night that it was just Kath and myself, Kath had mentioned Brinn as possibly the seer as well as Greenie, but really none of us expected you to being the seer.

And to Eonwe, for being a major pain in the neck. :p I think we're all a little bit rusty, because I was so worried about that obvious slip Lalaith spotted and Pitch and Eonwe picked up.

At one point we all had our stabs at who the seer was.

Rikae and Kitanna were Lhuna and me
Legate was for Huey
Lalaith was me (thinking she caught my slip and earlier her frustration at those discussing went when Kit revealed)
Pitch was the Ka
Shasta was Kath's "head." Her gut said Brinn or Greenie

Now I have the QT to read and keep me entertained for days as I try to figure out how the heck was I considered/thought to be the seer. :p

[Nogrod]

Just first thoughts: a crazy and wonderful game everyone!

That was worthy of a "Return of the Werewolf to the 'Downs"! :)

[Inziladun]

An absolutely amazing game; well-plotted, and very well attended.

The wolves and Gifteds, from my perspective, did a good job hiding.
As usual, I wasn't right about a great deal, but it's still always a good time.

[Inziladun]

And if someone happens to ask me "what's that Werewolf game about, anyway?" I'm pointing them here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7afoE1A4RlM).

[Nogrod]

Now I have the QT to read and keep me entertained for days as I try to figure out how the heck was I considered/thought to be the seer. :p
I have more or less read it - and the Game Thread too - and it is still a mystery to me, where did that idea come from? :smokin:

I mean at one time there was nothing of the sort and when I checked in the next time it was already "yesterday's news" in both threads.

:confused:

[Pitchwife]

*reads narration*
...
...
...
...
...
*applauds*

[Pitchwife]

I have more or less read it - and the Game Thread too - and it is still a mystery to me, where did that idea come from? :smokin:

I mean at one time there was nothing of the sort and when I checked in the next time it was already "yesterday's news" in both threads.

:confused:
As far as I know it was Mac who came up with it, you'll have to ask him. I didn't get it either.


FWIW I called Borowolf and Ordo Son of Bjarne yesterDay on nothing but gut feeling, so this is quite satisfying.


And Eönwë: Sorry! (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjRo_CHSdt0)

[Thinlómien]

It was an amazing game, absolutely crazy, so many of us innocents were wrong so many times but still we won because the wolves were equally bad at spotting the seer... great. :D

Sally, I'm so sorry. But the hunter really IS more fun when she gets to kill somebody, whatever the consequences. ;)

Brinn, thanks again for saving the game for us, also amazing job saying hidden. To be picked on by the dead thread like that and still survive without revealing!

Boro, well *threateningly waves the pots and pans* I might be really mad but I am not because I figured it had to be you after Brinn revealed - you didn't really succeed in feigning enthusiasm nor had you replied anything reassuring to my speculations on your innocence the Day before, and besides I was convinced Rune and Lottie were innocent. I said I won't forgive you if you're a wolf, but given that you lost and we won, I'm feeling magnanimous so I might. :p Anyway, well played and a very gracious way to end it! I am pretty awed by your galaxy brain level scheming in this game.

Now I really want to read the QT but - as most of you probably know - I live with Legate and he has been constantly laughing aloud while reading the thread (while obviously never telling me what's so funny), so I'm a little terrified...

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

FWIW I called Borowolf and Ordo Son of Bjarne yesterDay on nothing but gut feeling, so this is quite satisfying.


I am not sure I care for this new nickname.

I wasn't ordinary, I was outright abysmal. :smokin:

[Huinesoron]

Nog, the narrations have been spectacular throughout, and this was a perfect endnote.

Brinn - you were incredible! I know I remember a few QT-wolf 'haha what if Brinn is the Seer' moments, but I don't think I ever seriously suspected you. That was a virtuoso performance. (But - arrrgh! If I'd only voted the other way on Day 1, this would have been a totally different game!)

Team Infector - sorry for dying on you so soon! :D It made for a much less stressful game for me, chilling with the Cobbler I. The QT-bar, but I would probably have been more help among the living.

The best part of the game, at least from my side, was the day or two when the QT was emphatically convinced BoroWolf was the Seer... :D

I know Team Wolf have planned all along to release our night-chats; Boro, as Last Wolf Standing are you okay with your chat being published? I should be able to get stable versions of both up pretty quickly.

Great game, everyone! Even if I spent half of it with the Cutiennocents studiously ignoring me. :D

hS

[Legate of Amon Lanc]

Just first thoughts: a crazy and wonderful game everyone!

That was worthy of a "Return of the Werewolf to the 'Downs"! :)
Hear, hear! And thanks for bringing it to us in such a beautiful package! *bows*

I have more or less read it - and the Game Thread too - and it is still a mystery to me, where did that idea come from? :smokin:

I mean at one time there was nothing of the sort and when I checked in the next time it was already "yesterday's news" in both threads.
At least on the Cuties thread, I blame Mac. :p

But it fit well with the mental image I had from start, that Boro was up to something strange. I am at least happy that I didn't make it up - but that it probably in fact meant that he was a Wolf.

But amazingly played, Boro, and I said elsewhere, amazingly played, Brinn! And well everyone - it's been great to once again meet with y'all in such a cozy setting. (Twice as much for my buddies in the QT.)

For myself, I am probably the most interested in the Wolves' thought processes and logic - not the least the entire Boro-feat, how did they come up with it, what were their objectives, and so on...

I also urge everyone who remained alive to the end to at least skim through the Cuties thread. It was hilarious at times, but you will also get an insight into some of our inner thoughts, so we don't repeat ourselves here...

[Nogrod]

I have posted an epilogue to the Game Thread where you can find out the destinies of all those who were infected by Morgoth's spell or the disease they infected - aka. were moved into the QT.

It is all a result of an elaborate system I deviced and used some dice to play out. A nice little "after-game" for me. It turned out quite easy to write out, so the results seem to make sense.

Well, had the results been different it would have been relatively easy to tell them some other way to make sense.


So it wasn't that disasterous in the end, from the POV of the History of Middle-Earth, even if it at times looked like it. :rolleyes:

[Inziladun]

I wasn't ordinary, I was outright abysmal. :smokin:

Well, I can certainly say that for myself! :rolleyes:

I tell myself, though, that at least I might offer a bit of entertainment value, for both sides. ;)

[Boromir88]

Probably my favorite message in Night 2's planning. I was so paranoid of Rikae that I thought they were obviously contradicting everything I posted, but weren't trying to point suspicion towards me. To stay 'hidden' as a seer and get more dreams in:

Could be paranoia. If our [Rikae] roles were reversed I wouldn’t openly give clues that I dreamed of a wolf night 1, especially a wolf who likes to chatter a lot. Their first post, makes mention that they like lists (opposite from my previous response to G55 rambling that I hate lists). First suspect list doesn’t have a wolf in it, but they later mentions that it was a designed trap for wolves. Which they make mention that Brinn and Kath look “opportunistic” by jumping on G55. Then later claims that Brinn fell for the trap by repeating G55/Pitch were suspicious (2 of the names on Rikae’s first list) In posts where xe’s contemplating votes xe’s “torn” by G55’s behavior. Maybe doubtful to G55’s guilt because xe was one of the few people I was interacting with in the early start. It would be really bold strategy for 2 mates to associate themselves too closely (I usually only do it if I’m in a pack with like Phantom or Nog). I’m just reading xer interactions towards me all day were extremely minimal, but xe made it a point to subtlety contradict me on lists and a comment that I looked to be “buttering Mac up.” (that was pretty amusing)

cobb55 might work in our favor to Rikae-seer, in the fact that now xe might view my early interaction with G55 as reaching out to identify the cobbler. I skipped Rikae’s posts where xe was arguing with G55, because there’s nothing to get from the cobbler getting under Rikae’s skin. But their final post #245 interesting. Xe makes mention of the “anti-Brinn” vote wagon that was starting (Pointing towards Huey, Lottie, and Inzil). I read their final post and I’m seeing xe’s putting it out to the village that it looks like there’s a wolf effort to “save” Brinn. If correct, xe will dream Brinn tonight. Finding her innocent might alleviate Rikae’s final comment about Huey’s “boldness” to save Brinn.

I know it’s scanty and I could be paranoid. But I would bet xe’s Seer, their first post was designed as a trap and xe believed Brinn stepped in it. Regardless of that, to kill Rikae tonight is still a big risk, because even if I didn’t believe Rikae was the seer, absent of any other people that looked the part, I would protect Rikae tonight.

Despite your one day, played brilliantly Rikae and you helped more than you knew at the time.

And sort of my "Night 1 strategizing"...which happened to be quite different from what I was hoping to achieve in this game. I was planning on being the 1st wolf to go down. Alas, again the dead threads allude me:


Trying to think as an ordo here, I would take it as Day 1 banter and nothing that would cause me to jump on as suspicious/reason to lynch. The risk is, whoever is the hunter, might pick up and think “well, hS, can’t be the hunter, so why?” and therefor decide to hunt you. You are right, that the hunter is a low priority gifted, who’s best benefit is when they die, they manage to take a wolf with them.

The seer can be catastrophic, not only their dreams. Even if the seer doesn’t dream of any of us, it gives them a baseline of who they can trust. If the seer dreams of another gifted, the Seer and Ranger/or Hunter, can start working in tandem with the seer’s dreams and ranger protecting the dreams (or the hunter hunting us). They’re never able to privately communicate with eachother, but that’s the worst case scenario, that the gifteds figured out who they are, and can coordinate their efforts of seer dreams/Ranger protecting their dreams and stopping our kills.

For the cobbler, it’s my absolute favorite role to be, I think there are many who find the role annoying, but I just find causing mischief fun. So, the cobbler counts as an innocent in the tally, but wants us to win. The downside is the cobbler doesn’t know any of us, so they can really muddle things up and go after/lynch us just like any other villager. Ideally, the cobbler is meant to die to help us win. Pretty much everyone already assumes I’m a nefarious schemer, even when I’m not trying to be! That’s my “baggage” and I doubt even if I haven’t played in a couple years, people are going to give up that baggage. Luckily, I delight in causing mischief. The benefit of being a wolf, but acting like you’re drawing all the suspicion that you’re the cobbler, is it makes the innocent less likely to vote for you. Since, lynching the cobbler counts as a loss on the innocent tally, people are far more inclined to ignore lynching the cobbler, if they feel they can get a wolf. So, since no matter what I say, I give off the vibes of being an evil schemer, my best survival tool is pretending to be so suspicious, I’m the cobbler. I plan to not attract so much attention early, because early days the village will be more inclined to want to lynch the cobbler. Later on, when the numbers say they desperately need to lynch a wolf, acting like the cobbler is great cover (in my experience).

I do hope that most people have forgotten about my desperate desire to be in the dead thread. In previous games with dead threads, I just found them so fascinating, but I’m cursed to never get to enjoy them for long. And being a wolf, I will aggressively and loudly fight for survival. I’ll see how things play out on Day 1, but expect me to start picking fights with 2 or 3 of the more active villagers and pretty much ignoring everyone else. That way there’s no trail of if I die “Boro didn’t say anything about The Ka, they must be in the same pack.” I want to be “Boro didn’t say anything about anyone and was just super focused on attacking Legate and Shasta.”

[Rikae]

Brinn and Boro, hats off to both of you for some very clever gameplay.

I must know:
Brinn, was your "bearing gifts" remark deliberate? Why did you choose your dreams? Deeetails! :D

Boro: so all that "in-character" "nightmares" " unconscious" talk & back and forth with G55 ... don't know if you've looked at the dead thread but I was dying to know if it was a hint, a bluff, a .double bluff, or pure nonsense!

There was a ridiculous amount of agonizing in the dead thread about how to protect Boro while not messing up his plan, and as it happened, trusting him to protect himself was the right move e for the wrong reasons. And G55 and I agreed to vote Brinn twice for opposite reasons. Heh. What an epic game!

Thank you so much Nog for a great setup and wonderful narrations!

[Pitchwife]

I wasn't ordinary, I was outright abysmal.
Well, you're extra ordinary then.:p

But amazingly played, Boro, and I said elsewhere, amazingly played, Brinn! And well everyone - it's been great to once again meet with y'all in such a cozy setting. (Twice as much for my buddies in the QT.)
Indeed. Brinn, after D1 I had no idea what at all you could possibly be and tended to forget you even existed, in spite of the QT reminding us regularly:rolleyes:. Congratulations on staying hidden and alive for so long, and thank you for winning the game for us!


Boro - words actually fail me. When did you turn into the phantom 2.0?

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

I have skimmed through a few pages of the quarantine thread, and so far this is my favourite quotation.

OMG will Eonwe never die

I am not sure I dare read through the whole thing though.

[Lalaith]

Such fun! So well played everyone! Nogs, what a wonderful concept and such great write-ups. Big hearts all round....really loved this game.

At the beginning of this game I said I was good at spotting innocents and hopeless at spotting wolves. How true, sadly that turned out to be.
My sure-fire wolves were Legate, and then Eonwe. All wrong.
My sure-fire innocents were Greenie, Lottie, Kit, Rune, Pitch. All good.

So basically I wouldn't know a wolf if I fell over it and it bit me on the ankle.

[Loslote]

Aww, Boro, rude! Leave the poor innocent child alone! :p

Nog, this was such an incredible game! Everything from the actual gameplay to the narrations were phenomenal. And great job, everyone else, for making this such an exciting and gripping game to play! I'm looking forward to reading through the QT for a whole new perspective on what was going on. :D

[Lalaith]

I am not sure I care for this new nickname.

I wasn't ordinary, I was outright abysmal. :smokin:

Hey, don't be like that, brother from another mother. (read the QT thread for explanation)
And congrats on the baby you have acquired since we last met! :cool:

[Loslote]

Also, I don't know where I got this, but I thought the Cuties knew who I was, and I was 100% expecting them to vote for me when G55 and Huin had majority, so that the wolves could Night kill me. I was so shocked when it was Brinn instead. Now that I've looked at the thread, I realize they didn't know, and I was worried about nothing the whole time. :p

[Rikae]

Crossed with Boro ... me, seerish? Well, I guess getting killed as seerish is the best an ordo can hope for, but I reacted to Boro the way I did Day 1 because I was thinking vaguely " possible baddie, possible seer, just nudge him slightly and see how he reacts" Guess that kinda worked? :Not how I wanted!

[Galadriel55]

Ha! I knew it! I bloody knew it! Since Day 1! :D Though I was considering Hunter as a possible alternative for Boro, and was nearly convinced in favour of Hunter when Sally died. But the longer Boro remained alive, the more certain I became of his furriness. I kneeeewww iiiitttt!!! :D


Will catch up to the discussion a bit later from my computer. For now, thank you for at least taking the Child down and for a wonderful climax! And thank you Nog for an awesome game!

[THE Ka]

Aww, Boro, rude! Leave the poor innocent child alone! :p

Since in-narration they're my daughter I feel as if I have to smooth this over, but eh I was already dead and like to think old Indor went out with a smirk. :p

Again, thank you Nog for hosting and narrating such an awesome game. I don't think I've ever played a game as enjoyably chaotic and welcoming at the same time.

[Loslote]

Also......there was *zero* wolf-on-wolf in the Huin bandwagon. :eek: That many innocents really did just decide out of nowhere to quarantine a wolf! :D

[Thinlómien]

Also......there was *zero* wolf-on-wolf in the Huin bandwagon. :eek: That many innocents really did just decide out of nowhere to quarantine a wolf! :D
WHO SAID THIS AND GOT LIKE A MILLION PEOPLE DISAGREEING/ CONSIDERING ME FISHY IN RESPONSE, HMMM??!!

Ah thank you Lottie for pointing this out, now I at least feel vindicated about something. :D

[Lhunardawen]

Boro, you are insane and I love you. That is all.

[Boromir88]

I know Team Wolf have planned all along to release our night-chats; Boro, as Last Wolf Standing are you okay with your chat being published? I should be able to get stable versions of both up pretty quickly.~Huey

Please do! I only shared 2 of mine that were my favorites

Crossed with Boro ... me, seerish? Well, I guess getting killed as seerish is the best an ordo can hope for, but I reacted to Boro the way I did Day 1 because I was thinking vaguely " possible baddie, possible seer, just nudge him slightly and see how he reacts" Guess that kinda worked? :Not how I wanted!

Yep. When you said you planned a trap, I took your "I like lists" in your first post as a sign you were contradicting me without trying to draw too much attention. And that ended up with my scheming that was doomed from the start. I think it would have worked if it didn't actually end up protecting the real seer, but because of your suspicions of Brinn I chose to make it look like I was protecting her and Lommy.

After sally's lynch, I started stepping up the efforts to draw out the seer. Going after Lottie right at the start of the next day, but after Lottie's responses I backed off feeling pretty confident she wasn't the seer, but actually was the Innocent child.

Then when the QT voted Lhuna and after her lynching I thought I could try to look like the seer to draw the real one out. Lalaith picked up my slip at the end of the day. Which I guess hindsight any innocent could have done, but with her previous frustration with how openly people were discussing Kit's reveal, thought maybe that was a sign she was the seer.

Then with Pitch's reactions after Legate's death, and his reaction to the QT voting Rune the next day, we thought perhaps Pitch was the seer, who had not dreamed a wolf yet and he seemed frustrated/upset by people he dreamed innocent dying/being suspected. Funny the night we chose Pitch, THE Ka, Kath and I spent probably a combined 20 hours going through every post from every day and still didn't have any reason to believe the seer was Brinn at that time.

We caught Rune's "Telemus" clues, but found it hard to believe if he was the seer he surely would have dreamed of Eonwe by now.

Then after we killed Pitch, I don't know if I agree with Lommy saying I chickened out on just not going through with the "fake seer reveal" :p that I was setting up for. At that time THE Ka had said she was going to have trouble being around over the weekend and we didn't want her to obligated to survive, so let her relax with in the QT with her dead mates and G55. If I went through with a fake reveal, it would just leave Kath, and if I had not been dreamed yet, I surely was going to after all the "Yeah I'm not the seer, just tried to look like it."

So the plan then was it would be better not to fake a reveal, to try to kill the Seer (which I think was the night we decided on Shasta) for all of his "hot takes" being scary accurate. Then Brinn comes out and reveals she dreamed Kath and it was kind of all over. After that, I just said I wanted to have one shot at who the Innocent Child was (which I was pretty strongly convinced was Lottie, before she revealed).

And yes my early banter was a "let me try to find the cobbler" because my plan to start was to try to act like the cobbler and not have the village so easily willing to lynch me. And that had to be scrapped, but for being a 1 day cobbler, G55 caused quite a bit of distraction and destruction, particularly in the death of the ranger :). That is a trade that wolf-me would make any day.

Boro - words actually fail me. When did you turn into the phantom 2.0?~Pitch

Well when Huey posts our planning, that was never my intention from the outset! ha. I wanted to stay limited and argue with a few people as possible to not leave any trail, then eventually thought I'd be lynched in 2-3 days. Turned out had to try something else and I threw every trick I could think of to draw out the seer. Brinn did not budge. It was remarkable.

[Loslote]

After sally's lynch, I started stepping up the efforts to draw out the seer. Going after Lottie right at the start of the next day, but after Lottie's responses I backed off feeling pretty confident she wasn't the seer, but actually was the Innocent child.


...


After that, I just said I wanted to have one shot at who the Innocent Child was (which I was pretty strongly convinced was Lottie, before she revealed).

I KNEW IT! I said that's what you were doing, I knew that was a wolf checking to see if I was the Seer!! Also, yeah, I figured between me and whichever of Rune or Boro wasn't the wolf, it would be pretty easy to figure out that I was the Innocent Child. So not coming out there would've meant I probably still died but the village had a slightly less guaranteed victory. Just how it turns out sometimes. :)

[satansaloser2005]

Sally, I'm so sorry. But the hunter really IS more fun when she gets to kill somebody, whatever the consequences.

It is, but it was so earlyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy! :eek: I was terrified I was going to take our last gifted with me, which is why I switched to Mac at the last moment, because I knew he was either a wolf or an ordo, and either way I preferred him to certain uncertainty. (Sorry again, Mac! There was a lot of panicked screaming over here that afternoon, I assure you.)

If it helps, I was convinced you were evil almost until the end. :Merisu:


On to cheers then. To the goodies first!

~

Massive kudos to Brinn for a role spectacularly played! Three cheers to the only gifted who managed to do her job and not get herself killed! Ahem.

I pegged you as the seer from close to the start and deliberately ignored you so I didn't get you killed with my fat mouth. Once I made it to the Dead Thread, the idea of us constantly voting for you (almost unanimously one Day!) was too good to pass up, and I knew it would cause enough chaos for your elegant self to hide behind.

~

Also kudos to Shasta for his valiant snackrifice, and for putting on such an entertaining show! Not so much for voting me though - my feathers are ruffled! (I jest!) I had suspicions you might be the Child but couldn't decide, and at one point I thought you had to be evil, though perhaps only because of the feather ruffling. <3

~

To Lottie, our little companion, many cheers to you as well. I read your "don't." post and somehow I just knew. You should have seen me hit the floor with my laptop and start frantically typing.

~

Last but not least, to Kit, who tried so hard but knee-jerked much like I did, resulting in her demise. It was still a joy to play with you, and a joy to hunt you right off the plague bat out of principle! :smokin:



x'd with a host

[Loslote]

To Lottie, our little companion, many cheers to you as well. I read your "don't." post and somehow I just knew. You should have seen me hit the floor with my laptop and start frantically typing.

I was like 80% sure you would pick it up, but it was such a nail-biting deadline! :D Also, that post was originally "DON'T.", but the Downs auto-uncaps it to "don't.", which actually conveyed the tone better...maybe the Downs itself was on my side. :p

[Huinesoron]

Since I'm not sure how well this stuff will stay together in the archives:

The Game Thread (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=19390)

The Quarantine Thread / Infirmary / QT-bar (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=19392)

And here's the night-chats:

The Living Pack's Night-chat (https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vTx0ToZ6iNefujmR6Euz4wD_1QVprFNtk0iVCC_PpzwR76mAV qDfyWTg61TA4TSPwVKOoBwsPw79JTt/pub)

Which I set up on Google Docs and then promptly got quarantined out of; I fully intend to read it tomorrow. :)

And finally:

QT Wolf Perpetual Night-Chat (https://docs.google.com/document/d/e/2PACX-1vSz6L1Y1P2eyi5gsKgqypxs1ydhIJ3fPR0Ca2ko4pVmA9ntL3 dqhqpI95vqwvcPeQCLQb8Ut6lMyyCS/pub)

Wherein I monologue about possible Seers, we laugh ourselves silly over the QT's belief in BoroSeer, and go out still trying to come up with plans for the Days that never came.

hS

[satansaloser2005]

I was like 80% sure you would pick it up, but it was such a nail-biting deadline! :D Also, that post was originally "DON'T.", but the Downs auto-uncaps it to "don't.", which actually conveyed the tone better...maybe the Downs itself was on my side. :p

I also posted in all caps, which is how I realized you were freaking out. :o

[Lhunardawen]

PPS. If we kill Brinn, that would be a riot toMorrow. Hahaha.
PPPS. I need coffee.

Me on the Wolf Chat, Night 2. Moral lesson of the story, maybe: Start listening to caffeine-less self.

[Thinlómien]

Very cosy with just G55 and Rikae, loved the surprise teaming up. This made me giggle:

Brinniel talks like she's on a sedative.
Boro talks like he's on a stimulant.

I love how the cuties hated the long poss even more than the living. This one made me snort:

Eonwe is now wall-of-text quote-posting... himself. I half thought he was trying to prove himself a wolf!

I want to laugh at Mac's conviction that Boro was the seer, but I don't think I can judge!

Generally, I'm quite comforted by the fact that the dead were just as confused as the living. I was somewhat terrified you guys had figured everything out and were yelling us how can we be so stupid. :D

I reeeally hope Boro will dream of Greenie tonight. I will eat my mousepad if she's not evil. How did it taste? :p

Also I wish people would stop using [name of Downer]-alysis: it conjures images of the said Downer spontaneously bursting.Sorry Lhuna! I am laughing at the mental images though, sorry again.

Also Lommy, debacle =/= debate! But sometimes a thing can be both...? *innocent face*

I'm not averse to voting Steve (cats destroyed my AltGr key, so I can't spell Eonwe properly anymore)awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

Anyway, thanks guys - all of you, really, the QT was a great read! I now understand why Legate has been laughing aloud while playing. :D

[Kitanna]

Last but not least, to Kit, who tried so hard but knee-jerked much like I did, resulting in her demise. It was still a joy to play with you, and a joy to hunt you right off the plague bat out of principle! :smokin:


Sallycakes, you and are will be locked in this dance forever. I actually protected you Night 1 because I thought you'd make a good no trace kill.

Twas a lovely distraction from the real quarantine. I just wish I could keep up with all the posts throughout. I think Rune was onto something with a character limits game.

When Day 1 started and I was biting my nails trying to spot a wolf, my husband casually said "maybe I'll join the forum and play a game with you." I promptly screamed "you're not ready!" But really, is anyone ever ready for WW?

I missed you all!

[Brinniel]

I'm a little disappointed that I never got to play in the QT since I've never been in a dead thread before, but obviously it was more important that I stick around. :smokin:

I must admit, I'm so proud of myself for actually succeeding in this role - I was a bit terrified when I learned I was the seer since I sort botched it last time I had the role (dreamt of Night kills, then got Night killed early on, yet the entire village couldn't figure out my dreams).

So my goal for this game was to stay alive as long as possible and dream of those who a) aren't likely to get quickly lynched or killed and b) wouldn't expect a seer-me to dream them. My plan was to leave clues but avoid being so obvious to point being caught and keep under the radar but not too much (I always think it's a good thing to be a little suspicious as the seer).

I did NOT expect to almost get lynched Day 1. That almost never happens to which is actually why I kept my cool when Rikae voted me - I wasn't expecting their suspicion of me to start a bandwagon. I think reading the wolves' conversation, they were wondering why I didn't reveal then - it crossed my mind, but after I saw all the votes and did the math I realized I probably didn't need to because Sally's vote wouldn't lynch me and I didn't expect Lalaith to return. It was a heart-pounding moment, but a risk that paid off.

As for my dreams, I PMed Nogs all my reasoning for who I chose each Night so that I could have somebody to talk at. ;)

Night 1:

I chose Lommy because
First Nights are always tough, but this time I think it will be most helpful to pick someone who is an active participant and has a history of sticking around for several Days.

Night 2:
Phew...that was close!
Let's just pretend I meant for all that to happen.

In all seriousness, the Day has given me plenty to ponder over. There are certainly A LOT of players whose intentions I would like to know, but alas, I can only pick one.

I took some notes which helped me narrow it down to four, then down to one. So let's go with:

++Pitchwife

Right now I'm finding several players to be suspicious, Pitch included. The difference is that I think knowing his role (regardless of what it is) could be more telling of other players as well.
I can't remember who my other three suspects were - probably Inzil...and maybe Hui and Boro.

I can't believe how accurate that Hui bandwagon was from the innocents - there really wasn't any seer help there. I had a hunch that Hui might be evil the way he defended me the previous Day, but had not dreamt of him.

Night 3:

Why I chose Lhuna
There's plenty to scrutinize from yesterDay's later votes, which I think will be discussed heavily by the village toMorrow. So I would rather learn more about one of the earlier voters particularly someone who is flying under the radar as I imagine a wolf is hiding among them. Unfortunately that makes picking someone a shot in the dark, because I honestly have no clue which one could be evil!
This really was a lucky guess because I was very close to dreaming Greenie instead. I was quite gleeful that I found a wolf, yet I was not in a hurry to lynch her and make it too obvious. We had just lynched a wolf, so I knew I had an extra Day or two to observe her and hopefully find clues to other wolves. Unfortunately, she disappeared the next Day. I was actually a little bummed she got lynched the Day after because 1) I really wanted to lynch Inzil (sorry!) and 2) it was nice to have a known wolf in my back pocket should I need to reveal. The good thing was that since the village seemed set on lynching her, I was able to step back and go along with it without looking seerish to the remaining wolves.

My first reaction to Nogs after Lhuna's lynch:
Quarantine Thread stole my thunder.
Didn't realize it was actually evil Boro...

And Inzil, I never did dream you because you seemed like a viable lynch candidate and also I realized if I was wrong about you, doing a Legate180 would appear incredibly seerish. I did briefly doubt my suspicions for a little while because I wasn't sure two wolves would entangle themselves in the ranger debacle, but I just had to know your role and it had to be via lynch. (Again, sorry!)
See Night 3
After everything that happened, I find Inzil to be the most suspicious - so much so that I actually do not want to dream him because I think he may be a viable lynch candidate toMorrow, guilty or not. And even if he is innocent, I have concerns that an attempt for me to defend him may give seerish vibes. If he does survive the Day (and I'm still alive), I may revisit him.
and Night 5
I've now come to realize that I can't dream Inzil because in the scenario that I'm wrong about him and he's innocent, doing a 180 on him toMorrow could be a red flag to the wolves. It's driving me crazy - I just want to know what he is!

Night 4:

I had five players on my short list that Night. I considered Lottie, but thought if she were innocent, her reaction to Sally's hunt might hint seerness and get her killed. In the end I chose Shasta because
If he's a wolf, he's slipping under the radar. If he's innocent, his psychic powers weren't really working yesterDay, but maybe they'll pick up again later - and I find it less likely that he will be killed toNight.
Shasta, I have to echo Lommy from earlier in the game and wonder whatever happened to those psychic powers? :p

Night 5:
I was rereading yesterDay's events last night...and at some point fell asleep. Anyway, I'm just going to go with my gut because I think knowing his role will be most useful:

++Eonwe
And considering he became quite suspected later on, knowing his role was indeed helpful.

Night 6:
Now that I know Inzil is innocent, I'm come to realize I honestly have no clue who the final three wolves are! There are certain pairs I find unlikely, but even after going through past posts, I don't feel confident about anyone anymore.
I really was thrown - you guys really did a good job hiding from me too. If it weren't for process of elimination, I don't think I would've figured you out. Thus, my choice of Greenie was another shot in the dark.

Once I knew she was innocent, I starting grouping unknowns to figure out possible wolf pairings. In my handwritten notes, at one point, I did note Ka/Kath/Boro as the most likely trio. I was almost certain about the first two and less so about Boro.

As for the whole Boro-ploy. I did leave him alone that Night thinking he might be an ordo baiting the wolves. When he didn't die, I thought it might be because he was wrong about Eonwe and the wolves didn't fall for it. I tried to stay away from the discussion that Day in case it was a ploy to draw out the seer, but in all honesty, I thought him more likely to be innocent by the end of the Day for the same reasons Lommy gave.

Day 6 was tough for me because I had a RL Board meeting to attend during the last two hours and while I was able to monitor the thread, I could not actively write anything. If one of my unknowns had gone to QT overNight, I would have immediately revealed. But Pitch was chosen instead which had me weighing my options. I did the math and realized I probably could reveal and result in a win, however I felt less comfortable doing so without a confirmed wolf and should there be a counter reveal or the village not believe me, RL wouldn't allow me to defend myself. And anyway I thought there was enough seer talk for one Day. I decided I'd only reveal if a known innocent (i.e. Eonwe) was looking to be the primary lynch candidate. I even pre-wrote my reveal post (which was similar to the actual one I used) - that way I could just hit submit during my meeting if necessary. (I did the same with my vote.) The QT vote caused me to panic for a quick second and I thought really was going to have to reveal to save myself. Thankfully the village ignored their vote and smartly went with Ka.

Night 7:

That Night I thought there was a chance that my defense of Eonwe exposed me and I really thought I might get killed. If not me, I suspected it would be Greenie, but thankfully the wolves fell for Shasta's seer hints. I chose Kath because
If she's not evil, so help me..
And I really needed a known wolf.

I really was torn between Rune and Boro the last Day. Rune kept looking more like a frustrated innocent and Boro's last posts were rather fishy (especially when he tried to advise me on how to lead QT vote the next Day). Boro you were truly brilliant - I semi-suspected you for the first half of the game, but after you bused both Lhuna and Ka along with you claiming to be ordo pretending to be the seer, I was fairly convinced you were innocent. Right up until the end.

All of you baddies did a great job, really. If it weren't for my seer abilities, I really don't think I would've had you figured out and if you had found me, I think you most likely would've won the game because you definitely kept the village guessing.

[Brinniel]

Brinn, was your "bearing gifts" remark deliberate? Why did you choose your dreams? Deeetails!
When I first wrote out that sentence, I didn't intend it to be a hint, but when I previewed my post I read it back and realized it could work as one and decided, sure why not? Felt low risk but fun enough to keep in.

Hopefully my previous post gives you all the details you need. :cool:

I should note that in general I'm not very good at leaving clues, but they were there, and I was consistent about all my dreams. For one, the only players I ever described as genuine were the ones I dreamt as innocent.

Day 1
So far I find Lommy to be the most genuine. She's only posted a few times early on, however, I do find her to be sensible and am agreeing with what she has to say.

Day 2
After re-reviewing his posts, I do find Pitchwife to be more genuine and if I were to guess, I'd think him innocent.

Day 3
Okay, I had some concerns about Lhuna's posts from yesterDay, and after really reviewing them, I do find her suspicious. For her involvement in the ranger discussion, the way she encouraged suspicion against me in a subtle way, her vote yesterDay, and her bringing up Hui's slip.

Day 4
Shasta: I've liked his thinking so far and he's feeling genuine to me.

Day 5
In light of learning Lhuna's role, I do actually find Eonwe to be more likely genuine. I looked back at the earlier part of yesterDay and he was gaining a fair amount a suspicion along with Lommy, Boro, and Inzil. Knowing there could be a chance he could be lynched, I don't think Lhuna would've voted him if he were a packmate.

Day 6
And I like Greenie's "unpicking Boro" post. Her analysis seems genuine and find myself agreeing with her conclusions, particularly with the possibility that both Boro and Eonwe are innocent.
(Or course me grouping Boro as also innocent could throw things off here. :rolleyes:)

[Rikae]

Generally, I'm quite comforted by the fact that the dead were just as confused as the living. I was somewhat terrified you guys had figured everything out and were yelling us how can we be so stupid. :D


Meanwhile I spent two days in the middle there having visions of Seer-Boro showing up in the QT and spanking us for getting him killed/messing up his plan. :eek:

[Lhunardawen]

Just brilliant Seering, Brinn. How you refused to be drawn out despite Boro's best mind-bending efforts, how you managed to stay under the radar yet suspected just enough for us to leave you alive thinking you're always a probable lynch candidate, how you made excellent dream picks (I had been hoping most of your dreams end up quarantined early and was surprised to find only two of the innocents were! also the fact that I would be chosen as a dream was unthinkable to me)...

Not only did our (Hui, Cobb55, and me) insistence to vote for you everyDay in the QT give you the best possible "cover" if you were really our packmate, it probably also kept us from seriously considering the likelihood that you were the Seer. At least it did for me. :rolleyes:

I did have the feeling the Seer was likely refraining from dropping obvious hints to stay alive as long as possible, so for a while I felt it might be Greenie, whose overwhelming walls-of-text posts containing very impressive analyses screamed ordo to me.

[Rikae]

Brinn - wow, here we all were in four different threads (thank you Hui, it's so fun to be a fly on the wall!) knocking ourselves out trying to find/protect/kill the seer (and considering everyone in the game at some point), and behind the scenes you were making these amazing well-thought out dream choices that really were what made the victory possible in the end. My great fear was that when the seer finally came out most of their dreams would be dead, and I initially doubted your reveal because they weren't! I think most seers would have fallen into the trap* of dreaming some of the more controversial people.

When I first wrote out that sentence, I didn't intend it to be a hint, but when I previewed my post I read it back and realized it could work as one and decided, sure why not? Felt low risk but fun enough to keep in.

Hopefully my previous post gives you all the details you need.

I should note that in general I'm not very good at leaving clues, but they were there, and I was consistent about all my dreams. For one, the only players I ever described as genuine were the ones I dreamt as innocent.


Thanks! I have an ongoing debate with myself about whether successful seers would hint at all in a dead thread game, and I'm selfishly pleased to have one data point saying they do. I love looking for hints, and leaving them. :D

*why do I keep using that phrase? It got me killed!

[Rikae]

Lhuna, I'm reading the night-chat now, and I see I gave Boro credit for your idea! Hats off to both of you - you for crafting an expert seer trap (even if in this situation it caught ordos), and to Boro for acting as bait so well, in the end I think I trusted him because I wanted him to be innocent.

(Me on the dead thread: "he's right about everyone and still alive, how is that possible?" but still trusting him - you must have had a good laugh!)

Edit: Maybe some day I'll learn to gather my thoughts into a single post instead of triple-posting ...

[Brinniel]

(Note: Someday I would love to be an ordo or a cobbler and be on this thread. Feels like a nice consolidation prize for dying.)

I actually said I was hunting Lottie, or rather hinted at it, in a post I'll find and quote later. I like making people guess, but not like that. I was trying not to be That Lazy Girl who had people over to help me and then did nothing, but I finally sat down right before DL and told them I needed to do A Thing or it would be Very Bad. Sadly, I was too late.
Sorry, Sally! It sucks when RL interferes. I admit I was initially mad you took out Mac, but now I am eternally grateful you didn't hunt Lottie.

I suck at spotting GiftedsMe, too, that's why I'm so excited!
Aww, poor Mac. *pats head*

I reeeally hope Boro will dream of Greenie tonight. I will eat my mousepad if she's not evil.
How's that mousepad tasting?


The original setting was my very first game, modded by Mac, but it was unusually the other way around: the "Wolves" were the good guys. It was "The Isle of the Were-Faithful". The former queen Tar-Míriel was the Cobbler.
That was my first game too! I recall getting lynched as an ordo on Day 3 thanks to Rune bandwagoning against me and was one a plane that Day so I couldn't defend myself. In RL, I ended getting stuck in an airport overnight and allowed myself to pout about WW for a couple hours, but I got over it. :rolleyes:

Oh yes, I remember Roa quite fondly as well! With all the people coming out of the woodwork for this game, I almost expected to see her, but alas, perhaps another time.
That would've been lovely, but I think she's been quite busy minding her little ones.

Just a moment. I know where each of these comes from, but isn't that a bit too much? What are we now, officially the drinking thread? Where did we earn that reputation?

EDIT: x-ed with Lalaith. LALAITH! What are we, a bar?!?
Oh boy, I really did miss out! :smokin:

Well. My personal question being something like...

WHERE IN THE NAME OF BEÖR THE OLD IS THE SEER?!?
Well, I wasn't trying to keep you guys guessing, but this did make me laugh.

WHAT

IN

FREAKING

ARDA AND THE VOID

WHERE IN THE NAME OF ALL THE VALAR IS THIS SEER?????!!!!!???!?!!
I really didn't think I was hiding that well!

Has anyone seen The Good Place?
I feel like I've been told like everything is nice and these are the innocents but I'm still feeling tortured.
Loved the references here.

Then Fea decided to just let the people continue playing, with no wolves and not telling us there were no wolves, while she randomized the Night-kills herself (if I remember it correctly).

It was absolutely insane as there was absolutely no sense in anything that happened and we knew nothing about what had happened in the first place
That was before my WW days, but it sounds insane. But a better resolution than that time where the mod (Gil I think) switched my role from cobbler to wolf because the last wolf had to be mod-fired. Of course I got lynched shortly after because I was being a good cobbler. I think that was the only time I was ever cobbler.

Btw I wonder why did Brinn not dream of Boro (if she's telling the truth). Maybe because he was under so much scrutiny that he was likely to be either lynched or Night-killed, so it was likely to be a dream wasted?
The Day Inzil got lynched, I thought he was possibly baiting himself for the wolves and in that scenario, I wanted to leave him alone. The next Night I thought Kath most likely a wolf and wanted a confirmed wolf to reveal.

Also, the QT is probably the first place where I've won a voting popularity contest multiple times. :p

[Lhunardawen]

(Note: Someday I would love to be an ordo or a cobbler and be on this thread. Feels like a nice consolidation prize for dying.)

Hui summed it up best, in my opinion: We like to think we have more fun over here, but that may be because we're both drunk on the lack of tension. :D

[Lhunardawen]

Lhuna, I'm reading the night-chat now, and I see I gave Boro credit for your idea! Hats off to both of you - you for crafting an expert seer trap (even if in this situation it caught ordos), and to Boro for acting as bait so well, in the end I think I trusted him because I wanted him to be innocent.
My seed of an idea was nothing as elegant as how Boro executed it, though. But I'm glad he went through with it, and did it better than I ever imagined. The Perpetual Chat will reveal how nervous I was about his survival! Much thanks to Nilp, too, for being my sounding board. :D

Edit: Maybe some day I'll learn to gather my thoughts into a single post instead of triple-posting ...
Meh. Anything to keep people from wall-of-text posting. :D

[Rikae]

Since I'm sure you're wondering, and these arrows through my legs take a certain amount of pressure off, you survived Night 2 because various wolves were pretty sure you were trying to cover for the real Ranger. Good thing (for the wolves) Zil brought you out into the open yesterday...


hS

Oh, I noticed that, thought it could be a newly dead wolf slip but there was a remote possibility it could be a fake slip planned with Lhuna, and decided it was best to disregard it.

[Galadriel55]

You guys are all amazing. Hui - those links will absolutely be read (tomorrow, as it's nearly midnight). I am so curious what you thought of everything on the QT behind the scenes.

I think what really killed me on D1 was that I had to sleep. I made an agenda for myself (and even wrote it down as a reminder!), and while I stuck to it everything went swimmingly. Then I went to bed, and woke up to such horrendous amount of content that I got bogged down in trying to process it in favour of following the agenda. Note for the future, regardless of role: stick to your agenda, it's ok to fall behind on content. Or don't sleep. Still, the most gratifying were probably Hui's comments of how I spent so much time steering the thread into a sideways discussion. I did punch the air the first time it came up.

As for the Seer!Boro idea - Mac championed it on the QT, but his Up To Somethingness was screaming in my face. I guess I did have a conversation witb him on D1 that went kinda like "Where is the cobbler?" - "It's me. Who are you?" - "I am a wolf, but hush, stay in character and act innocent." - "Roger, Wolf Tower*". Which no one picked up on, probably because analyzing cobbler posts is useless. And then he started the next 2 Days with a blatant "I am focusing on THIS, because reasons and hint hint trust me", which gave me massive Up To Something vibes even besides the D1 exchange. I suppose this looks very Seerish, but I didn't really buy it because if Boro was innocent he wouldn't have lived as long as he did. Also, I indirectly confirmed with Hui when he joined me on the QT by asking if they got my gifted flag, which they did not (ie he was not a gifted, and I don't believe a wolf would just ignore InnoBoro's early posts).

For those who want a brief skim of the QT, I made a list of my favourite moments last Night. It's on my computer though, and will be posted here tomorrow. Phones are just not conducive to werewolfing.


* My answer was a response halfway between Roger and Flare: Gifted, because I thought Boro could potentially be the Hunter as well, and just barely potentially the Child. I didn't want to make too much of a flare in case he was a wolf, or be too subtle in my Roger in case he was gifted. Then I tried to distance myself from the whole thing amd sweep it under the rug, my main thought being that some clever innocent (especially the resident psychic ;)) will see through the message and find Borowolf through me. Oh what a duo we could have been! I am curious - did you try to signal me on D2 about who to vote on D2? Because if there was a specific signal, I must have missed it. I was following your opening with "assume Brin is guilty".



Edit: xed with a couple. Being drunk on the lack of tension was EXACTLY how I felt! :D

[Lhunardawen]

For those who want a brief skim of the QT, I made a list of my favourite moments last Night. It's on my computer though, and will be posted here tomorrow.
Yessss, we have an Agan summary post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=700004&postcount=1680)! I had been hoping someone far less lazy than me would do so. :p

FWIW, G55, I sensed in the Infirmary Bar that you knew Boro was Up To Something. It was all the more reason for me to lament that you couldn't chat with us. Imagine if you could! :smokin:

[Eönwë]

Wow! That really felt like the kind of game we were having 10 years ago.

I really thought Lottie was the seer for such a long time!

Kind of crazy that I was unintentionally framed (I don't remember when it was, but I remember Lommy's post along the lines of 'how could it be coincidence that the last 3 deaths are people that suspected Eonwe?')


OMG will Eonwe never die
I honestly felt pretty much the same for the last few Days - that's part of the reason I thought I might as well try to go out with a bang and take out the Borowolf that no-one else was seeing!

[Eönwë]

Also, I think the QT in this game has more posts than most main game threads!

[Eönwë]

Also, it looks like Lottie ended up playing the Innocent Child in the best possible way, story/drama-wise - revealed and self-sacrificed to ensure a village victory.

[Eönwë]

And I can't tell you how horrified I was when I wrote that sentence that looked like a slip (that I only saw after clicking submit).

[Inziladun]

And Inzil, I never did dream you because you seemed like a viable lynch candidate and also I realized if I was wrong about you, doing a Legate180 would appear incredibly seerish. I did briefly doubt my suspicions for a little while because I wasn't sure two wolves would entangle themselves in the ranger debacle, but I just had to know your role and it had to be via lynch. (Again, sorry!)

That makes sense. Regardless of alignment, making it past Day 2 is often an accomplishment for me.
I find it perplexing that when a wolf, I get suspicion for seeming too careful. When innocent, it's because I say too much. :rolleyes:

[Kath]

I'm so sad I didn't get a chance to play in the QT! But I love the self sacrifice motif at the end.

Brinn. You were seriously the village person of the game. My head and my analysis said she's got to be a contender for Seer, but it was always logic based not gut level because you were hiding so well so I never pushed for it. Huge kudos to you!

Lommy and Eonwe, you were sort of the wolves' people of the game. Eonwe you were so helpfully constantly suspicious and Lommy ... I mean ... leading a charge that ended up taking out the Hunter and then being so utterly convinced about Boro. You couldn't have been more helpful if you HAD been the Cobbler! :Merisu:

To my fellow wolves, thank you for such a fun game! Lhuna you nearly gave me a heart attack with that self vote Day 1; Ka I can't believe how incredibly you played especially with all the RL stuff going on; Hui my friend if we're ever wolves again I'm letting you go down in flames because that was hilarious and left no traces and I don't know how you did that; Boro I laughed every single time I read the game thread and watched you drop Seer hints left, right and centre and everyone else mildly panic about interacting with you as a result.

I think Ka said it at one point, using this place as a safe haven in a storm, and honestly I have had so much fun, and the majority of that has been all of you. It's been far too long.

[Boromir88]

That QT was a delight to read. :D

I tend to lament never being able to enjoy participating in the games with dead threads, as the couple times a game has had them, I've either survived to end or killed on the final end game. However, for this game a larger part of me is happy I didn't die early on. I had way too much fun being an unknown for almost the entire game. If I was a known and lynched wolf, I would have joined in the shenanigans, but I don't think I could have had as much fun as I ended up having. Reading the QT afterwards added more to a great experience. And reading my dead comrades night plans to go along with the BoroSeer of the QT and still plotting on a way to try to help me as the last wolf standing was super. Thank you!

I did laugh out loud (for real) when reading Legate in the QT:

Also: looked through Boro's posts for some obvious stuff and also his early posts for some announcement of strategy and found zip, nil, nada.

Heh, sorry, just the thought of your fruitless endeavor to try to find out my strategy for the QT was terribly funny. I guess you could say my strategy was to cause confusion and spin the quarantined around in circles. Which, well when you were in the GT you spotted that was exactly my strategy and suspected me for it. What happens to an infected brain that starts saying "trust Boro"? :p

All the behind the scenes goings on, makes me realized what a fantastic and balanced game this was. A couple turning points that would have changed our fortunes...

Big one right at the start is Brinn was tied and so close to be lynched. When I came out Day 2 with an "assumption" that Brinn was a wolf, she had played off the Day 1 suspicions and mine so calmly I never suspected her as the seer for the entire game. Maybe if I had stuck with the "Brinn's a wolf" assumption, I surely would have been lynched, but perhaps exposed Brinn early on.

My absolute favorite day was the day Inzil was lynched (sorry bud :p). The pack was anticipating THE Ka to be lynched, so I was in full throttle seer-hinting mode, THE Ka was holding up a "just lynch me sign", Pitch was scrambling around and looking like he was frustrated that he couldn't steer the village in the direction he wanted (which we interpreted as a seer who had only dreamed innocents), then we all returned to our night chat wondering how the heck Inzil got lynched that day. Heh

But that day led to the next turning point, the day THE Ka was lynched and after that day I felt my cruddiest. Just read my post:

As much of a headache I probably caused everyone, at least for myself, I'm pretty comfortable with these...

I considered making it interesting...because I trust Lommy and Kath more, but I don't trust Eonwe. Them and myselves I believe who we have left to vote?

I considered Brinn, because I don't know what the QT is trying to do, but I don't trust THE Ka, and she added on to vote Brinn.

I think the time for plans and tricks is over. A missed wolf today and we're in big trouble. So...

++THE Ka

Left to vote was Kath, Lommy, Eonwe and me. I knew Eonwe wouldn't vote for himself so there wasn't going to be a chance he would be lynched. But with Kath and myself around, I was torn on do I do a 180 and vote Brinn (the QT and Ka voted for her). If I voted Brinn there though, it would certainly expose me, and probably Kath too (I don't know if she would have voted for Ka or not), but probably would have been the best play for me knowing now that Brinn was the seer and would dream of Kath the following night.

[Kath]

Boro, reading that also made me remember that on the Day where Inzil was lynched I had been so taken by surprise by the QT vote for Rune that I genuinely thought Rune was dead and Inzil was alive. I spent half the Night analysing Inzil's posts for possible Seerishness and totally ignored poor Rune!

[Lhunardawen]

For the record, village, I was bussed. I was totally, stab-in-the-backingly bussed. While I very much welcomed it, I did not expect to wake up and find myself in the QT, much less have two of my packmates vote for me!

[A Little Green]

I think Ka said it at one point, using this place as a safe haven in a storm, and honestly I have had so much fun, and the majority of that has been all of you. It's been far too long.Wholeheartedly seconded. It's been such a treat being back here with all of you, thanks everyone (and of course Nog!) for making it into such a crazy, epic comeback game. <3 I'm sure I'll read the QT next time I need cheering up. (This game was also a good reminder to myself that colour-coded spreadsheets aside, I do better at wolf-spotting when I don't try to rely too much on logic. It really just doesn't work.)

As a bizarre coincidence, during the game I was reading a book on asylum determination processes for work, and it basically reads like a werewolf manual -

4.3 Provision of reasonable opportunity for an applicant to clarify potentially adverse credibility findings
It is very possible that a perceived lack of detail, omission, inconsistency, or implausibility in the information provided by the applicant is not in fact real, but may be legitimately explained. As the credibility assessment should be based, as far as possible, on reliable evidence, it is of crucial importance that the determining authority affords applicants a reasonable opportunity to clarify issues which may potentially lead to adverse credibility findings. Moreover, any explanations offered by the applicant should be duly considered before a final decision is taken on the application.
I wish I had followed this advice more. :rolleyes:

[Galadriel55]

Yessss, we have an Agan summary post (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showpost.php?p=700004&postcount=1680)! I had been hoping someone far less lazy than me would do so. :p

Sadly not as well organized and linked as Agan's. I should do that next time though.

FWIW, G55, I sensed in the Infirmary Bar that you knew Boro was Up To Something. It was all the more reason for me to lament that you couldn't chat with us. Imagine if you could! :smokin:

I am glad to hear it! I was afraid that when you said that it was because you needed me to do something and I wasn't getting it, or was doing the exact opposite of what you wanted.

[Galadriel55]

Day 2

Rikae and I start off by agreeing to spam the thread to make the Living wonder what we were up to.

Rikae votes for Brin, and I abstained.

Rikae becomes the First Ever Good Cobbler.


Day 3

Huey reveals his packmates to be Nogrod, Nerwen, Balfrog and The Barrow-Wight.

I suggest we vote Brin again for jokes, and The Boss :cool: agrees. I wonder / hope that the InnoCuties will keep voting Brin to make the GT lose it.

Meanwhile, Rikae votes for Bernie.

Going into Night 4, Rikae asks if every gifted is secretly a cobbler. I wholeheartedly approve of the idea.

Mac does a

https://media1.tenor.com/images/32e512f5a58c4135b0100797d6739882/tenor.gif?itemid=3992233

"saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllllllllll lllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", while Rikae finds consolation in that it could have been the Seer.

Meanwhile, it turns out just about everyone left early Hunter hints that absolutely no one picked up on.

Mac convinces everyone that Boro is the Seer.

sally wants to fry some cookies.


Day 4

Mac channels Nilp's alter-egos.

Roa Aoife makes an appearance.

The whole QT thread asks Nog to prank the GT with a fake ++Brin. This is my proudest moment in the game, when the whole thread and the Mod, for one shining moment, became cobblers. On this note, thanks to Mac, we now know that after "thirded" comes "fourtified". A new addition to my growing vocabulary, along with Pitchie's "frell".

Going into Night 5:
Lhuna explains the exact mechanism by which our QT became a Prolonged QT. And I love her for it.

Legate becomes an Honorary Infected. Almost.


Day 5

Kit remains the only unsurprised person to be in the QT, which is filled with Not The Seers.

Mac wants to mess with Boro by voting for him.

Legate does indeed vote for Karl Marx. For which he was meta-caught on the GT.

We do not have beer to offer Inzil, but we do have Gin and Tonic.

As Night 6 begins, Lhuna consoles Zil by saying she didn't think he was bad. But Hui did!

Everybody wants to vote Steve. It seems like Steve and Boro will never die.


Day 6

Pitch joins us as the 4th Not The Seer, after Rikae, Legate, and Lalaith.

Among the scrutinized Living, Rune, Shasta, and Lottie join Boro in the Possible Seers List. People are wondering where the frell is the real Seer. Apparently Mac and sally are now Seers too. I suggest Brin, but of course no one thinks I'm serious.

Inzil admits that when he was still "alive", he earnestly believed we were busy here in QT discussing the GT!

Lhuna does an analysis of her own death.

I propose a game. People get to decide my vote in exchange for answering a question.

This is the Day when QT voting was more intense than GT voting. The InnoCuties want to vote unanimously for Brin, and sally gets infected by the cobbler pseudobug. Sadly the vote is not quite unanimous, but almost. Still, Nog's and GT's reaction were worth it. The QT believes that now that we've (almost unanimously) voted Brin, she'll turn out to be the Seer or the Child (Ha!).

OverNight, we find out there is a separate room in Hell.



Day 7

Shasta becomes yet another Not The Seer. People are genuinely questioning whether there actually is a real Seer in this game, and Nog actually has to confirm this, and yet is still not quite believed.

We discuss ridiculous game ideas with weird twists. We reminisce of games long past.

The GT decibels are finally down to a decent level. Because population control works. ^.^ Nog practically dares us to pass the GT in post count.

Lhuna does an analysis of Ka's death on her behalf.

The Princess Bride keeps coming up time and again. It is indeed a great description for the whole game (and for a lot of my personal experience too) – and almost inadequate compared to the actual amount of scheming and double bluffing and various possibilities that went on. Because it’s not just both goblets poisoned, it’s the poison poisoned and the poison antidoted and while you decide which antidote matches which poison an elephant falls on you. (Specifically it was inadequate for Rikae trying to figure out what I thought of Brin. I didn't know anything about Brin, that was irrelevant; my decisions were based on what would maximize chaos).



And that was all I got before Brin revealed and everything spiraled towards the grand finale. I want to congratulate Boro and Brin again for a brilliantly played game! A special mention to Kath, who would have totally made it to endgame if she just wasn't dreamed. Very very sneaky wolf! And cannot say this enough: Nog, that was some brilliant Modding! The narrations were gripping, the comments and reactions were fun, and the game set-up was excellent!

[Blind Guardian]

Maybe this isn't the place to put this, but I would like to play in the next game and I don't remember how to sign up or when that will happen. :) Please push me in the right direction!

[Inziladun]

Maybe this isn't the place to put this, but I would like to play in the next game and I don't remember how to sign up or when that will happen. :) Please push me in the right direction!

Hey there, BG. This (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=11911&page=128) is the main TIG thread. Sorry you missed this last game.
There was a long hiatus before it, but hopefully that won't be the case now.

[Nogrod]

Sorry for not being around that much after the game ended. RL just took quite a tight grip of me as I realized how much stuff I had left undone because of the game. :rolleyes:

But yes, it was quite a game!

And everyone was in it from the beginning to the end, which made the feeling quite unique. Couldn't rep you all at one sitting, as you well know, but will continue tomorrow... You all deserve it!

~*~

Let me just give you one more POV to look at the game. The POV of one who actually knew all the time what was going on.

It was, well... :eek:


Like the fist lynches going into the last second - and with "high risk high reward" results hanging in balance for both sides to the very last!

Or the few slips I of course noticed and then followed how you guys related to them...

And the QT was just so much fun.


But the best one must have been when Sally was "lynched" and she was going to take Lottie with her!

Think of it from the narrational POV! Little Túrin taking even younger Lalaith with him into the Great Hall in front of his shocked and petrified parents and the bewildered villagers!

I had written the "DEADLINE STOP POSTING" -message already and was ready to post it, keeping eye on the clock, and checked one more time when it turned into 0:00 to see if Sally had changed her pick at the last minute. There were no new PM's for me, so I thought she wasn't going to change it. Actually - following just an impulse - I added to that Deadline post a new line reading just *Good Grief!*.

When I had posted it, I realized there was a new PM for me! I went to see it, and it was from Sally, and she told me to change the hunt for Macalaure! The time stamp was indeed 0:00 - so it was a valid change, albeit it came literally at the last possible seconds.

I quickly edited my "Good Grief" out from the Thread as not to reveal anything, but was feeling strongly that I had screwed up. Happily it turned out not to be so in the end - or at least I hope so.

[Lhunardawen]

You had hands down the best seat in the house, Nog. I can only imagine how hilarious it must have been for you to see us obsessively vote for the Seer in the QT. :rolleyes: :D

Think of it from the narrational POV! Little Túrin taking even younger Lalaith with him into the Great Hall in front of his shocked and petrified parents and the bewildered villagers!
Now I wish it had actually happened. :p

[Thinlómien]

And I can't tell you how horrified I was when I wrote that sentence that looked like a slip (that I only saw after clicking submit). It happens to the best of us... including myself. :p

Remember this?

If the wolves were trying to orchestrate an innocent lynch yesterDay, it could have just as well been Gal, who they also knew wasn't one of them.
You would know, wouldn't you. Wicked. Tricksy. False.

Everyone was really baffled by this and thought Lhuna is suspicious and not making any sense. While I did get it afterwards and ignored it. :p Because it did look like I slipped I knew Brinn was innocent! Even though I believe the context was something like "maybe the wolves badnwagoned to lynch innocent Brinn - or maybe 'innocent' Gal", so this "slip" wasn't really that bad.

~*~

Anyway I very much hope a second game happens still in the summer - but whether it happens or not, what say you about reviving the annual tradition of summer werewolf? I see the last games we had were about one per year sometime between May and September. Let's keep this happening, shall we? :)

[Kath]

Anyway I very much hope a second game happens still in the summer - but whether it happens or not, what say you about reviving the annual tradition of summer werewolf? I see the last games we had were about one per year sometime between May and September. Let's keep this happening, shall we?
I think an annual revival sounds like an excellent plan! :)

[Blind Guardian]

:eek: A whole year... you're making me wait a whole year :eek:

[Macalaure]

Late to the party...

Apparently I'm a really good cobbler when I don't try to be. Some people always see all kinds of hints in random posts and I usually miss them. Now that I thought I actually did see some, I ran with it, never to return.

Sincerest apologies for trying to lynch the actual seer from beyond death. :D

As far as I know it was Mac who came up with it, you'll have to ask him. I didn't get it either.
At least on the Cuties thread, I blame Mac.
Who's the fool? The fool, or the fool who follows the fool? :p

How's that mousepad tasting?
Delicious, but it could've used more butter. ;)

[Lhunardawen]

Delicious, but it could've used more butter. ;)

Maybe Boro still has some left over. :p

[Brinniel]

Upon finding out G55 is the Ranger, Brinn merely says ‘sorry to hear that’ not ‘oh I’ll sacrifice myself to save you’ – does this suggest Brinn is a Gifted who needs to stay alive?
You figured it out and didn't even realize it! :p The funny thing is I came close to slipping at this point and was tempted to post "Better you than me." So glad I didn't!

Boro, I remembered that article you shared with me about why people have more vivid dreams during this quarantine! And speaking of dreams, I’ll have to turn in now. I’ve been too sleep-deprived for the past couple of few days.
These Covid dreams are for real! I've been having a lot of vivid dreams lately, and of course once the WW game started I started dreaming about the game too. Which is honestly a bit confusing when you are the seer and start having actual dreams about players that aren't even accurate! I think my most recent WW dream was a day or two ago when I dreamed that for some reason Nogs decided to keep the game going even after the final narration and I needed to post in the QT.


I think Ka said it at one point, using this place as a safe haven in a storm, and honestly I have had so much fun, and the majority of that has been all of you. It's been far too long. Wholeheartedly seconded. It's been such a treat being back here with all of you, thanks everyone (and of course Nog!) for making it into such a crazy, epic comeback game
I agree with this as well, it is nice to be back. You know, it's been over 13 years since my first WW game, 3 years since I last played (Dueling Wizards), with a 5 year gap before that. Over those many years, our lives have changed significantly for most of us (pandemic aside), yet whenever I come back here, it feels like no time has changed at all. :)

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Hey, don't be like that, brother from another mother. (read the QT thread for explanation)
And congrats on the baby you have acquired since we last met! :cool:

Thank you. It was something I picked up a little more than a year ago, and while it is a source of much joy, it is not the best supplement to a game of werewolf.

I can see you are forcing my hand. I will have to have a proper look at the QT thread.



We caught Rune's "Telemus" clues, but found it hard to believe if he was the seer he surely would have dreamed of Eonwe by now.


Of course you did, and of course you didn't believe it.

I was increasingly desperate at this point. I viewed myself as holding the village back, I had trouble finding more than the hours around deadline for participation, so I decided on throwing the most overt seer hints I could. I knew it was unlikely to work so well as to make me a wolf pick, but I hoped, and reasoned that if nothing else perhaps I could divert some attention. The weird thing is, that after I gave up on having ambitions for my contribution, I started having much more fun with the game. I imagine it mirrors the fun of being a cobbler, I guess you could say that I was fey. :Merisu:

I am not trying to constantly slate myself, and I am not looking for pity. However...
It has occurred to me that my game hasn't developed much since I played WWJ II. And the rest of you... I am just in awe of your scheming, theories, voting analysis etc. Amazing, just amazing.

I think that at sometime in the future I would like to mod that twitter inspired game, and just watch mayhem unfold.

[Galadriel55]

We at the QT got rather discpuraged by the Wall of Text posts on the GT rather fast, and wholeheartedly support your Twitter WW idea!

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

We at the QT got rather discpuraged by the Wall of Text posts on the GT rather fast, and wholeheartedly support your Twitter WW idea!

I am thankful for the support, less so for the "wall of text" memes in QT-thread that have made my eyes bleed.

:cool:

[Rune Son of Bjarne]

Yes, but unfortunately I don't speak it except some very basic phrases. It's from a Eivør Pálsdóttir song, í tokuni.

I ❤ Eivor. Saw her performing live some years ago and it blew me away

She's really good.

I do recommend listening to her to anyone who hasn't heard of her yet.

I stumbled upon Eivør's music a few years ago when i was creating a playlist for a vacation (with my father and siblings) to Tórshavn.

I have been taking Icelandic classes lately, and so I put on some of her music in the car to see if my Faroese skills had also improved as a consequence. My girlfriend turned to me and asked "do you know Eivør"? Apparently they used to hang out together at, the now closed bar. "Sirkus" in Reykjavik. That particular bar had a spinoff branch in Tórshavn which still exists, and in which i managed to get drunk with a Michelin star chef and participate a Nordic Council Eurovision party.

I think I managed to tie that story up rather nicely...

[Lhunardawen]

It has occurred to me that my game hasn't developed much since I played WWJ II. And the rest of you... I am just in awe of your scheming, theories, voting analysis etc. Amazing, just amazing.
I can totally relate. A lot of game development has happened in the games between now and since I last played, apparently. I've been rereading a few of the much, much older games and there was a really stark contrast in the depth of analysis that went on.

I think that at sometime in the future I would like to mod that twitter inspired game, and just watch mayhem unfold.
Please do, Rune. Please? :Merisu:


Late PS.
I guess you could say that I was fey.
I see what you did there. :p

[Pitchwife]

Of course you did, and of course you didn't believe it.
I did! For a while at least, and whether you were the seer or not, I was pretty sure you were innocent, like Legate earlier; at the time of my death you were one of a handful of villagers I felt I could trust in a pinch (including Lommy, Lottie, Shasta when he went after THE Ka, possibly Greenie) - not trust to be right, but trust not to mislead me on purpose. Hence my reaction to the QT vote that Day, which the wolves took as Seerish. That's no small thing, trust between ordos; it can win games.

The weird thing is, that after I gave up on having ambitions for my contribution, I started having much more fun with the game. I imagine it mirrors the fun of being a cobbler, I guess you could say that I was fey.
LOL:D! Seriously though, that's true of many things, that once you lower the bar of your expectations they're both more fun and you tend to do better. I feel I'm more or less in the same camp as you - some players' ability to post exhaustive analyses at runtime while also keeping up with what else is going on utterly amazes me (Greenie, I'm looking at you and your spreadsheets!). What people perceived as my 'tenseness' on D1 was really a mix of (1) being totally hyped about playing WW again and (2) being totally overwhelmed by the size of this village and the amount of stuff everybody was posting. I try to do analyses during Nighttime, but I rarely bother to post them because by the time I log in next Day too much other stuff has happened (which may be why people get the impression I'm holding back my thoughts, like Boro said D1?). During the Day I've found I operate best in a thrust-parry-riposte mode, engaging with whatever comes up. [/self-conscious rant]

I think that at sometime in the future I would like to mod that twitter inspired game, and just watch mayhem unfold.
I'd really like to either play or co-mod that (and believe me, if I knew how to enforce a character limit to BD posts I'd already have started it)!

I agree with this as well, it is nice to be back. You know, it's been over 13 years since my first WW game, 3 years since I last played (Dueling Wizards), with a 5 year gap before that. Over those many years, our lives have changed significantly for most of us (pandemic aside), yet whenever I come back here, it feels like no time has changed at all.
Or to quote Bowie, Nothing has changed / everything has changed, but coming back here still feels like coming home. So thanks to Nogrod for modding this game which has drawn us all back together again, but also thanks to The Barrow Wight Himself for making this space for us in the first place and maintaining it all those years so we have someplace to come back to in a time like this!

[Galadriel55]

I'd really like to either play or co-mod that (and believe me, if I knew how to enforce a character limit to BD posts I'd already have started it)!

An idea:

I believe the Downs' post-box (where you type the post text) remains the same size text-wise regardless of device (it seems the same on my phone and computer, and it doesn't change when I play around with window size). You may type only the text that fits into this space, quotes included. You may not exceed the limit (ie when the scroll bar appears).

Also... can I play/co-mod that too? I swear I cannot stand another Wall of Text.