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View Full Version : Tengwar vs. runes


Orald
04-08-2001, 03:34 AM
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I just realized this, but in the trailer for the LotR movie the inscription on the Ruling ring uses tengwar instead of runes. Was this simply overlooked by Tolkien, a mistake in the movie, or was tengwar normally used for inscriptions on metal objects? I know runes are used in carvings of wood and stone, i would think metals would be the same.

Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into E, and evil be good to have been.</p>

Mhoram
04-08-2001, 04:02 AM
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Tengwar vs. runes

the scroll of Isildur: &quot;...Already the writing upon it, which at first was as clear as red flame, fadeth and is now only barely to be read. It is fashioned in the Elven-script of Eregion, for they have no letters in Mordor for such subtle work...&quot; and it is traced out in 'Shadow of the Past' using Tengwar just the same as the movie does. So, unless there is some hole in my understanding, i would say that Sauron was forced to use Tengwar(though used the language of Mordor, but the letters themself would be the same as Tengwar, correct?) because Runes would not have fit.

Or perhaps he just though Tengwar was nice and pretty.

</p>

Shark
04-08-2001, 05:36 AM
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Tengwar vs. runes

The carving of the letters into the Ring must, in my eyes, have more been of a 'magical' manner, not mechanically (which could not have been anyway as the writings were only visible in fire). Therefore, there may have been no need to use Cirth, which are of course easier to carve into wood, stone and metal, after all, that was why the dwarves used them.

The use of Tengwar letters and Black Speech on the Ring has for me always had an air of deliberate provocation by Annatar. Words in his evil speech, but in the letters of the elves, of whose doom the writing tells. This could at least have been Sauron's motives as he crafted it.


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Balin999
04-08-2001, 11:13 AM
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Tengwar vs. runes

to be honest i dont think that sauron would think that sth is &quot;nice and pretty&quot;.
but i agree with sharku. seems to be the best answer.

Behold the King of Moria!</p>

Orald
04-08-2001, 12:05 PM
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Tengwar vs. runes

SO you think it was delliberabte on Sauron's part(Tolkien meant to)? I was just thinking how there are no other instances and it seemed a little fishy to me. No other smith be it dwarve or elf ever did this. Was it because Sauron could, being that he was very skilled in craft, or did the tengwar mean something compared to runes?

Thus even as Eru spoke to us shall beauty not before conceived be brought into E, and evil be good to have been.</p>

Shark
04-08-2001, 01:01 PM
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<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/redeye.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Tengwar vs. runes

It may be as simple as that he used Tengwar because the Noldorin Gwaith-i-Mirdain did.
And, added to this, he probably was too lazy to invent his own 'Black Script' (which the elves then could not have read anyway).

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the guy who be short
06-14-2003, 05:51 AM
I know that the runes were used by the elves, the mode of Dirion i think, but wasnt it mstly used by dwarves. And the elves prefered tengwar cos it was so pretty. smilies/rolleyes.gif
So I think it was because the elves could understand it.

Finwe
06-14-2003, 12:42 PM
I think Sauron deliberately used Tengwar to mock the Elves. The Black Speech is absolutely nothing like Quenya and Sindarin. Sauron wanted to mock the Elves' beautiful language(s) and thus, used Tengwar to write those horrible words on the Ring.

Sindalomewen36
06-14-2003, 02:57 PM
I think it was used to add a kind of mystical aw.

Finwe
06-14-2003, 03:14 PM
I don't think that Sauron was looking for a "mystical awe" effect. That never bothered him. His favorite thing to do was mock, especially mock beautiful things. I think that's why he used Tengwar.

akhtene
06-14-2003, 04:34 PM
As was posted earlier, runes are well suited for carving or scratching. Wouldn't that have spoilt the simple beauty of the ring? To my eye the inscription looks more like being engraved or etched (magically or not) and Tengwar script was simply more suitable for doing so.