mimicking his counsellors?

[lindil]

"Saruman, Saruman!
Saruman, you missed your path in life. You should have been the king's jester and earned your bread, and stripes too, by mimicking his counsellors. Ah me!"
Gandalf

What did G. mean by mimicking his counsellors?

[ March 24, 2003: Message edited by: lindil ]

[Silmarien]

I think he meant mimicking the king(the one he was jester to)'s Councillors. It's a pretty big insult I always think. Kind of like Saruman doesn't have anything original to say.

[Iarwain]

In a traditional midevial monarchy there was the king, and then his court, or counsellors. The jester would have preformed before the king, in some cases by making fun of the members of the court.

[Aiwendil]

Saruman's "counsel" sounds like a jester's mockery of true counsel.

[Birdland]

I believe that Gandalf was trying to "break the spell" of Saruman's voice over his audience through laughter, which actually is a pretty good tactic. (Though I never thought Gandalf's line was that funny.)

[Beren87]

I always took it to literally mean become a jester and mimic the counsellors who paraded around doing nothing helpful, being in essence, Wormtongue. He was saying Saruman would have suceeded more by putting his voice to use as Wormtongue did.

[Lutfiska]

I agree with beren..

[Carlas]

Kind of like Saruman doesn't have anything original to say.

I don't think he really did anymore. He was more or less under the control of Sauron, Sauron's 'puppet'. And I think he actually was a sort of jester for Sauron, even if he didn't know it. Being evil, it must be kind of funny to have a great being such as Saruman, doing your biding for you.

[The Squatter of Amon Rûdh]

Actually the Royal Counsel (at least in England) was a committee of senior nobles and churchmen who advised the king on state affairs. Gandalf is saying that Saruman sounds like a parody of a counsellor (politician if you will), whereas originally he had been the real thing. A very biting comment indeed, considering Saruman's new status. As Carlas says, he had become little more than Sauron's sidekick, so jester was an apt description.

[Arwen Imladris]

I think that Gandalf was pointing out that the way that Saruman talked was much like Grima Wormtongue. Wormtongue was always wispering in the kings ears, pursuading the king that he was too weak and getting him to do things that were not in Rohan's best interest. Saruman was talking in the same way, acting as though he was innocent. Gandalf is saying that these words mean nothing, I see your plan, it won't work on me! You are as bad as Wormtounge. Thats what I think.

[lindil]

I think after reviewing the wide variety of opinions [which accurately mirrored some of my confused guesses], Squatter and Aiwendil seemded to nail it most closely.

any other thoughts?

[Lindril Arvilya]

(Though I never thought Gandalf's line was that funny.)

Gandalf might have been a bit stressed at the time.

[akhtene]

I side with Birdland that Gandalf remark was aimed to break the spell of Saruman's voice (well, perhaps any other words + laughter could serve the purpose smilies/rolleyes.gif )

The remark may as well be aimed at Grima "the councellor" who (and Gandalf knew this) was inside together with his master. Gandalf might want to belittle Saruman in the eyes -or ears- of Grima, placing him inferior to the former councellor.

[Lalaith]

Lindil, I had also always assumed that line had the meaning given it by Squatter and Aiwendil. For what it's worth.