Silmarillion humour?

[Niphredil Baggins]

Is there any? The 'Lord of the Rings' is full of comic relief, as a thread proves. And 'The Hobbit' just cannot be taken seriously. But is there any humour in the Silmarillion? I find reason to smile for example in the story of Beren and Luthien: Sauron as a wolf escaping with his tail between his legs, Beren's and Luthien's disguises, Morgoth's failure and Beren coming to Thingol with the Silmaril in his hand and his hand in the belly of Carcharoth! Is it just my twisted mind, or does the great chronicle actually have some humour in it?

[Nevtalathiel]

I've never read the Sil, but it's nice to see that someone thinks there are funny moments, as everyone says its quite a hard read and i'm kind of dreading picking it up! smilies/frown.gif

[Amanaduial the archer]

i dont think there is actual intended humor in the sil, but there r bits that can be taken a bit morelightly, and bits that r very clever, lik beren having the sil in his hand, it just not being with him....
this is one of the reasons the hobbit is the one i read again and again, bcoz its so light(and my sis is reading lotr). the sil is really deep and sad especially the story of beren and luthien (that made me cry). so i dont think its meant to be funny but it is strange how some bits make people now and then neway.
Sauron as a wolf escaping with his tail between his legs
i liked that bit!
lol
amy

[Aiwendil]

I would say that the Silmarillion is the one book I can think of with literally no humour in it. I hadn't thought of it that way before, but it's true.

[Lomelinde]

The Silmarillion is a very somber read, and the stories are told in a very grave manner. I can't recall any humor, and if there is any, it went right over my head. smilies/biggrin.gif

[Sharkû]

Mandos has some serious black humor:
"and if I must break them, I shall break my heart, and I shall be slain; first of all the Eldar in Aman." [-Fëanor]
"Not the first," said Mandos, but they did not understand his word.

And who couldn't smile at that?
Then Manwë and Yavanna parted for that time, and Yavanna returned to Aulë; and he was in his smithy, pouring molten metal into a mould. 'Eru is bountiful,' she said. 'Now let thy children beware! For there shall walk a power in the forests whose wrath they will arouse at their peril.'
'Nonetheless they will have need of wood,' said Aulë, and he went on with his smith-work. Scenes of a marriage (:

[Arwen Imladris]

Sorry, I did not see any humor, exept maybe in some of the names, sounded kind of funny, Ulmo - Elmo? sorry.

[Lush]

Sharku, you bet me to it! I thought the little moment between Yavanna and Aulë was delightful. smilies/smile.gif

I thought that another light-hearted moment was when Beren stood up to Thingol in his own house, and mocked his lust for the Silmaril. Tulkas, also, was said to have a good sense of humour, despite his brute power.

[Amanaduial the archer]

ok im still reading it, and u know clever-yes....deep and meaningful-yes....humour-well apart from the sauron-running-away-with-his-tail-between-his-legs-ha-ha-ha....well other than that there really is no humour in it! sorry to let yall down, but if there is ne other really intended laughs, they were a bit to *subtly hidden*
lol
amy

[ April 05, 2002: Message edited by: Amanaduial the archer ]

[Elven-Maiden]

I haven't found much lough-out-loud humour, but there is a fair bit of irony.

[Afrodal]

Homm, homm, my first post. Though I've been watching this forum for a long time.

Well, I see you've already found almost everything I think to be humour.

Though there is nothing funny in Turin's tale when Gurthang(is it Gurthang) is speaking to him, I must say that a speaking sword is something weird.

One of the best "jokes" is of course Aulë's "Nonetheless they will have need of wood", as Sharku said. And "Not the first" too.

But I don't think there is any humour what is meant to be humour.

[Amarinth]

definitely plenty of irony. subtle humor, i give you that, aman smilies/biggrin.gif.

recalled a funny post here some time ago saying the only gay in all tolkiendom was sauron --when luthien came within his grasp at taur-nu-fin, all he could think of was a reward...

not even subtle but inferred, hah! that was it for me, and only then...

[Amanaduial the archer]

lol that is a good point, i mean he totally disregarded her, u know being THE MOST BEAUTIFUL CREATURE EVER!actually, there was a chat i was in sayin sam was gay....yes, i did disagree 4 all those sam lovers out there...

[lindil]

the points listed above may well be it.

It is far and away one of the most serious, sobering and yet inspiring books written, I mean compiled.

[HerenIstarion]

Maybe that Sauron held by his throat looked funny?

[Galorme]

You have to remember the sil is not a book as such. It's a compilation of highly compressed synopsises (synopsi?). The single bit of real (or I think deliberate) humour ("They will have need of trees") is not part of the sil tradition, it was inserted from a short story written by JRRT. If he had written the stories in full he would have dotted bits of comic relief like in the LoTR, but maybe not as many. Can any one remember any comedy in the Lays?

[tom bombariffic]

Im not going to bore everyone by repeating the 1 or 2 funny bits for the 5000th time, but i reckon he probably wrote those just cos he thought of them on the spur of the moment - he probably wasnt planning on putting any in. But when he wrote about, for example, the aule bit, he probably thought to himself how funny that tree line would be. So I dont reckon he planned any humour, but probably put some in if he thought it was clever in a sudden brainwave.

[Iarwain]

I didn't really think that there were any humorous moments in the Sil, but there were happy moments, moments where you know whats happening/happened when the character doesn't. The sil also makes LotR a much better read. You can understand, for instance, the Council of Elrond and other deep refrences into the past. For me, just this deeper knowledge makes me smile at somber moments. It almost makes me feel kind of wise-ish. I like to think that I've lived and seen all of the history behind the LotR, its really fun! smilies/biggrin.gif

Gazing back in time to all that has passed before my eyes,
Iarwain

[Amanaduial the archer]

Ah, still good after 8 and a half months...

[Raia]

recalled a funny post here some time ago saying the only gay in all tolkiendom was sauron --when luthien came within his grasp at taur-nu-fin, all he could think of was a reward...

hahaha, that one is now funny. But well, that was not cause Sauron disregarded her, it was cause he knew better than that. Imagine how upset Melkor would be getting the news of Sauron taking Luthien for himself?

Anyway, I don't think Silmarillion is a hard read, considering I'm not even a native English speaker and lack a great deal of vocabulary, but nevertheless it's a very fantastic book. There are a lot of dark and sad parts, but some happy parts as well.

Death of Feanor and Fingolfin almost made me cry (even tho I'm a Dark Lord fancier)

[ December 28, 2002: Message edited by: Sauron's devoted servant ]

[doug*platypus]

The Silmarillion can bring out a few emotions all right, but I think they're all at the other end of the spectrum to laughter or happiness. There's not many light-hearted moments at all, you have to be content with the glorious descriptions of the Elven armies of the First Age, and the few deaths such as Fingon's that weren't in vain. It's a very different book, and definitely not for everyone. My cousin pointed out to me that every time he'd start to like a new character, they'd end up being killed! Any humour you could get from it would be pretty black.

[the guy who be short]

Thats the point. Black humour, subtlety, irony. I also love the quotes mentioned, and I am sure there were more, yet I can find them not. smilies/frown.gif
I thought the Silmarrilion was such a serious book that any small amoun of humour would have me laughing out loud, just because I needed something to laugh at.

[Finwe]

Perhaps it's my twisted sense of humor, but I find the whole Feanor/Fingolfin conflict absolutely hilarious!

*looks around at the dead silence*

[Noxomanus]

Apart from the Aule part,I love it when this Elf (can't remember who,I forget nearly all their names)becomes a traitor to Sauron because he's promised to get back with his wife,and after he told everything,Sauron says she's dead but he'll keep his promise and kills the Elf as well...I loved that part.Some of you might hate me for that but I think its real funny.Can't see what's so funny about Sauron with his tail between his legs.
It might all have something to do with that I allways like bad guys best.

[QuickSlash]

I haven't read the Sil for a while, but I know I don't remember any outright humor. Some lighter parts, some bits of irony, yes, but no humor.

The Sil wasn't ever really meant to be humorous, imo. It was just a history book. I was thinking about it, and I was going to mention that maybe if Tolkein had finished it, he would've added humor later. But that made me think that even if Tolkein had lived a hundred more years, he probably never would've finished the Sil. He would've just kept adding little bits, working on other projects, and leaving it unfinished. I don't think he finished it while he was alive because he couldn't. It was a book (of sorts) that's meant to keep going.

At least, that's the impression I've always gotten.

[Lyta_Underhill]

I am still in the process of reading the Silmarillion now (having abandoned the effort some 15 years ago--should definitely have read LOTR first, but tried to start with the Sil!). I find that, when I am reading it, it is deadly serious, but then I step back and it looks ridiculous in places! I mean, the death of Fingolfin seems very much like a Monty Python scene! Morgoth squashes him under his foot, for crying out loud! But it was affecting and I had a strong feeling for the fierce conflict and final lashing out of Fingolfin in his last extremity to hew Morgoth's foot so that he was ever halt thereafter...it is funny to me if I think of the Foot of Morgoth as if it were drawn by Terry Gilliam!

Also, for some reason, I have this image of dead Fëanor, freshly slain, with a recording upon him: 'This elf will explode in 5...4...3...2...1...BOOM!' The image of Fëanor, the Exploding Elf, threatens to become a theme with me! I wonder if the Monty Python version of the Silmarillion would elucidate more of this very black humor?

Cheers,
Lyta (who has only gotten to the Beren and Luthien section of the Silmarillion as she speaks)

[Amanaduial the archer]

The Beren and Luthien bits are some of my favourite in all of the Tolkien books I have yet read, along with the tale in appendices of Aragorn and Arwen. Luthien is one of the most likeable characters in Middle Earth, and obviously not just for her beauty- shes not just a pretty face, as you will find out.

[Finwe]

Oh my Eru! *is holding her sides and laughing* Feanor the Exploding Elf! It made me think of something out of Mission Impossible. "This Elf will self-destruct in 5...4...3...2...1...BOOM!" Feanor's sons are all left looking like Merry and Pippin after the dragon firecracker went off! smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/evil.gif

[Lyta_Underhill]

I could not resist, although it may be in bad taste--I added the shortest quote from the alternate Quenta Silmarillion "Of Fëanor, the Exploding Elf" I could get my sig file to accept. I had this whole line:
Maedhros bent over the lifeless body of his father and heard a small, echoing voice from deep within Fëanor's chest, as if Mandos himself spoke from afar: "This elf will explode in 5...4...3...2...1...BOOM!" And behold, a great noise overcame the Sons of Fëanor, and they were covered in a black dust. They stood silent as their father spontaneously burst into flame and disappeared entirely!" --from the alternate Quenta Silmarillion, "Of Fëanor, the Exploding Elf"

But the sigfile wouldn't accept it, thus it is shortened. And Amanaduial, I cannot wait to savor the Beren and Luthien tale! I quite enjoyed Aragorn's shortened song of Beren and Luthien in FOTR, and I've heard a whole lot about those two already. I have read the first part, in which the darned curse of the Noldor is invoked again by King Thingol of all people!

Luthien is the name Tolkien wanted inscribed on his wife's grave...alas, he recognized his own conceits, but you've got to love him for them just the same! From humor to melancholy and back again!

Cheers!
Lyta

[Finwen]

I found what I hold to be some Unfinished Tales humour - not strictly Silmarillion, but connected.

In Narn i hin Hurin, when Beleg brings Nellas the Elf-maiden before Thingol to tell him what she saw regarding the Turin and Saeros affair, it says...

...And when Thingol bade her speak, she said: "Lord, I was sitting in a tree"; but then she faltered in awe of the King, and could say no more.

At that the King smiled, and said: "Others have done this also, but have felt no need to tell me of it."

Well, not hilarious, but as funny as it gets. I think I must have been in the right mood when I first read it, because it made me laugh for quite a while and I've remembered it ever since.

And it's intentional humour, too! smilies/smile.gif

Please tell me that other people find it amusing and I'm not just making a fool of myself... smilies/biggrin.gif

[Amanaduial the archer]

Lol, yes Finwe, it is funny. Maybe not going into the realms of, erm, hilarious...but still. I dont remember that bit though...

[the guy who be short]

Havent read UT yet, (going through HoME) but I found that extremely funny! I guess its because all the humour in all his books is so sparse that anything makes me laugh.

[Helkahothion]

Scenes of a marriage (:

yeah it made me smile too smilies/smile.gif. It was also the firs quote from the downs I regocnized in the book.

Suilad,

Anuion

[burrahobbit]

Noxomanus: I love it when this Elf (can't remember who,I forget nearly all their names)becomes a traitor to Sauron because he's promised to get back with his wife,and after he told everything,Sauron says she's dead but he'll keep his promise and kills the Elf as well...I loved that part.

That was a man. It was pretty much the evilest and least funny thing that Sauron ever did. Oh hay, you know what else is really funny? You know that part in Schindler's List where that one guy, I forget his name, when he was up on the balcony? You know, with the rifle? Jeeze, honestly people.

[Helkahothion]

That is not funny Burra. That stuff actualy happened. That german bastard actualy shot that boy. And many others. I don't think it is wize to compare something thought up with a gruesome fact like schindler's list. Sorry if I am being melodramatic, I just hate those stories.

Suilad,

Anuion

[burrahobbit]

That is not funny Burra.

It certainly isn't.









wize

[ June 19, 2003: Message edited by: burrahobbit ]

[Helkahothion]

What? Are you saying it is not funny, but wize? Please explain that.

[The X Phial]

Wise is spelled with an "s", helka, that is the issue with that.

Comparing evil with evil seems to be totally kosher to me. Burra's point was that evil isn't funny. If you don't find Hitler funny, then you shouldn't find Sauron funny. One is fictional, but both do evil things in the context of their reality. This has gone severely off topic, but given the fact that the Sil isn't actually funny, I suppose that was bound to happen.

[ June 19, 2003: Message edited by: The X Phial ]

[burrahobbit]

You won't trick me that easily. This isn't about you, Helkahothion, and it never was.

[Amanaduial the archer]

Wise. Its wise. No, not the shooting and the whole war, and please refrain from using the word bastard...just the spelling.

[Helkahothion]

I know Burra. Let me explain.

1)You talk about a German shooting someone of Jewish Origin in Schindler's list

2) I say, it not funny Burra.

3) You say: No it is not funny. And then you quote "wize"

I thought you meant to say that shooting that kid was wise. Sorry for mistaken. You did not mean to say that right?

Suilad,

Anuion

[Estelyn Telcontar]

I'm closing this thread temporarily, since it is no longer on-topic.