Elves and Dwarves...together??

[the real findorfin]

Never have I heard of a dwarf and an elf getting together so I assume its not possible, (might be a bit weird!)

Gimli is said to have loved Galadriel though, so affection might have come between others.

Thoughts?

[Inderjit Sanghera]

I don't think it would by biologically possible for them to have offspring, unlike Men and Elves. It was also in the nature of the Elves and the Dwarves no to get along (apart from the Noldor) and well...the dwarf would ahve to stand on a yellow pages book to kiss the Elf. smilies/smile.gif

[Selmo]

Gimli's adoration of Galadriel was unique and, with Galadriel's departure to The West, would remain so. Galdadriel was the only Elf powerful enough to provoke such a response from a dwarf.

Findorfin,
you use the words "getting together" and "affection between". I don't think these are appropriate.
Gimli was totally smitten by Galadriel; the reverse was not true.

[Legolas]

Gimli, too, went West.

Celeborn had not yet followed Galadriel that we know of, though he probably did later on.

smilies/eek.gif

[thorondil]

Inderjit Sanghera says:

It was also in the nature of the Elves and the Dwarves no to get along (apart from the Noldor)

What about the Sindar?

Selmo says:

Galdadriel was the only Elf powerful enough to provoke such a response from a dwarf.

Why do you assume this? I'm sure many an elf-maiden of Doriath turned a dwarf's head. What about Luthien? She would have provoked a response from anyone.

And Galadriel certainly showed affection to Gimli. I think she was fond of him and was amused at how he was smitten by her.

[Manwe Sulimo]

I'm sure many an elf-maiden of Doriath turned a dwarf's head.

And then caused them to chop those maidens' heads off...remember, the only time that anyone other than a Sinda came to Doriath was during the attack by the Nogrod Dwarves (except the smiths that made the Nauglimir, but they lived in the Menegroth's smithies, hardly the place for Elf-maidens to be).

[thorondil]

Manwe Sulimo says:

remember, the only time that anyone other than a Sinda came to Doriath was during the attack by the Nogrod Dwarves (except the smiths that made the Nauglimir, but they lived in the Menegroth's smithies, hardly the place for Elf-maidens to be).


The Dwarves built Menegroth with the Elves...including the gates of the hall of Thingol and a stone bridge over the river Esgalduin. Do you think they kept all of the elf-maidens hidden while the Dwarves were around? Or that Melian and her maidens waited until the Dwarves were all gone or sequestered in their smithies to weave and hang their tapestries in Menegroth?

[Manwe Sulimo]

Yes, the Dwarves helped build Menegroth, but afterwards the Girdle of Melian kept all outlanders (Noldo, Dwarf, or Man) from the woods of Doriath. All who remained afterwards were the smiths, who dwelt in the deeps of the Thousand Caves, working for Elu Thingol. What would elf-maidens be doing in Menegroth when it was being constructed, or in the smithies?

[thorondil]

What would elf-maidens be doing in Menegroth when it was being constructed

Umm...maybe living there. Do you think that Menegroth remained empty until all thousand caves were completed?

My point was that I don't think Galadriel was the only Elf to ever turn a Dwarf's head. And there were Dwarves in Doriath...and it is ridiculous to believe that they never saw any female Elves.

[the phantom]

I think it's important that we understand what we mean by Gimli being "smitten by her". I don't think in this case that it meant he 'had the hots for her' or something on that line. I think it was more like he was looking at someone above him, almost like we'd look at an angel. It was more of wonder, admiration, and awe rather than his hormones going crazy and wanting to get it on with her. It was a pure, high form of adoration, not some crude thing. I don't think the thought would ever come into his head to get physical, he'd probably think of that as blasphemy. Galadriel was above that type of desire.

Also, dwarves were of different build and had a different look than elves, and so I imagine their defenition of who's hot and who's not would be different. To dwarves, I imagine some of their dwarve women looked hot. I think dwarves would be about as likely to go for an elf in that sense as you would be to go for a dwarf.

[Lush]

It was a pure, high form of adoration, not some crude thing.

Yes, because sex is just so awful, sinful, and utterly wrong. smilies/biggrin.gif

Sarcasm aside, I do think the idea of Gimli gettin' it on with Galadriel is like something out of a bad 80's horror movie. It's like: You think Freddie Krueger is a fright? Here's something worse, kids!

Thanks guys, I'll be off to have many nightmares now.

[Inderjit Sanghera]

Thorondil, the dwarves didn't get along with the sindar because they slew their king-Thingol. The Noldor, get along better with the Dwarves because they are apprentices or admires of Aule and they couldn't get a damn about Thingol. The Nandor probably sympathetic with the Sindar too, and wasn't Thingol their king too, since he gave them leave to dwell in Ossrand and soem of them lived in Doriath, such as Saeros.

[Gryphon Hall]

The dwarves did not always not like Thingol. I mean, it was them that warned Elu Thingol of the coming of many evils and helped him stock up on weapons and stuff, not to mention how they helped in Doriath.

But they eventually killed Thingol because of the Nauglamir, which they thought Thingol got unfairly from some thief (Hurin), and his proud words (heck, he insulted the smiths while he was alone with them).

Still, I believe it is possible for an elf and a dwarf to "get along," especially in the fourth age, as both their races are dwindling and they have no choice. Unsavory, yes, but possible (though I, too, do not believe that Gimli fell in love with Galadriel; more like became devoted to her because she knew why he was sad about Moria and all). smilies/biggrin.gif

[TolkienGurl]

I really don't think Galadriel was amused with Gimli's affection; that would make him feel embarassed and childish. I think she was pleasantly surprised.

If I was Galadriel, with the weight of the world on my shoulders, I would be charmed, refreshed, and relieved of at least some of the worry and anxiety in my life.

Gimli's strong feelings for Galadriel (not a physical attraction, I agree) helped him to become softer-hearted and an all around better Dwarf for it.

Ah, love. smilies/smile.gif I know the feeling!

[doug*platypus]

I think that if this somehow took place in our modern world, even our world of the last few thousand years, it could definitely happen. It takes all sorts to make a world. You're on the internet right now, I'm sure it wouldn't take too much searching to find much weirder stuff than an Elf/Dwarf relationship.

But as far as Tolkien's world goes, I'm sure that such an even would have been chronicled. Unless it was possibly a secret tryst, maybe between one of the Elves of Hollin and a Dwarf of Khazad-Dum. I think that history and commonsense, however, tell us that such a thing has that could never be kept secret! I don't believe it ever happened.

[Bill Ferny]

It was a pure, high form of adoration, not some crude thing.

-- The Phantom

Yes, because sex is just so awful, sinful, and utterly wrong.

-- Lush

Lush, I think you were a little unfair in that assessment of what Phantom wrote. I didn’t take it that Phantom was besmirching sexual intercourse. I took it that Gimli’s affections for Galadriel were beyond the physical. Aside from me finding the image of a physical affection being a bit repulsive in this case, I think its important that Tolkien’s relationships between male and female always went beyond the mere physical, even when they included the physical element. Sexual intercourse is a good thing, but it is a transitory thing. Physical beauty is a wonderful part of creation, but it, like all things physical, passes away. Being the romantic that Tolkien was, all true relationships went beyond the merely physical, and entered the spiritual realms of love, devotion and virtue, those things that for him, at least, do not pass away.

Oh, Lush, you apparently aren't the only person on this forum to come off as nymphomaniac smilies/biggrin.gif