Tolkien Inspirations

[Eldar14]

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I am part way through Tolkien's biography, and I always come across things that remind me of events and characters in Middle-Earth. One example is how one tree he played in as a child was cut down for no reason, it was just left where it used to stand. When I read this, it reminded me quite a bit of the ravaging of the shire by the men. I was just wondering if anybody knew of any other cases in which Tolkien was inspired by either the events in his life or in the world.

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[Mister Underhill]

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Re: Tolkien Inspirations

I haven't read his biography, but Tolkien seems to me to have been deeply affected by the horrors of WWI and the loss of so many of his friends at a young age. Didn't his mother die young too? There's a pervasive sense of sadness and loss that underlies virtually all of his work. Even in the midst of their most glorious victories, his heroes must taste bitterness.

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[merry linger]

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Re: Tolkien Inspirations

these are not official, but i thought there may be a link:

Mithrandir: during the third century ad there was a Persian religous cult of the savior/messiah &quot;Mithras&quot;

Avars: warlike nomads from the asian steppes of modern day Russia (6th century ad) - very similar to the unwilling elves the avari (elves rumoured to be the ones captured by Melkor and used in the breeding of orcs)

Aragon: kingdom in western Europe during the middle ages that would later unite with Castille, a neighbouring kingdom to form what is now known as Spain (similar to Aragorn)

any thoughts?


He planted himself squarely in front of Faramir, his hands on his hips, and a look on his face as if he was addressing a young hobbit who had offered him what he called 'sauce' when questioned about visits to the orchard.</p>

[Sharkû]

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Re: Tolkien Inspirations

The point is that from a philologist and intellectual professor such as JRRT we can be sure he knew both Aragón and Mithras (hey, when even I know both).
Hence I would deny the possibility of influence in those cases, apart from possibly a linguistic one, i.e. that Tolkien liked the sound of the names and used similar ones.

That the book has some basis in personal experience is admitted by JRRT in the foreword to the 2nd edition, where he mentions the spoiling of his countryside in his childhood as influencial, but not allegorically used in LOTR.

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[Aldaron]

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Re: Tolkien Inspirations

Merry Linger:
Mithraism was more than just a Persian cult. It spread and was widely believed in Rome, and especially among the Roman army. They in turn spread it as far as England where I have visited two Mithraic temples. For a time it was a toss-up between Mithraism and the cult of the Christ, which was just beginning to get a foothold. A very interesting religion.

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[merry linger]

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Re: Tolkien Inspirations

if tolkien undoubtedly knew of these (avari, mithras, aragon) as sharku seems to believe, then my conclusion would be that there could indeed be a link, even if it is only linguistic.

Aldaron's point adds furthur repute to this notion; if Mithraism had a following in england, surely tolkien would have been aware of it's existence: I know little of the cult (please feel free to enlighten) but Mithrandir can be interpreted as a sort of messiah/savior figure within the text, thus making the parralels between the two more relevant.

i think this topic is an important one so i'd appreciate furthur discussion <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)">

He planted himself squarely in front of Faramir, his hands on his hips, and a look on his face as if he was addressing a young hobbit who had offered him what he called 'sauce' when questioned about visits to the orchard.</p>

[Eldar14]

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Re: Tolkien Inspirations

I don't really think JRRT would have noticed Mithraism in England, he was a devoted catholic.

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[Elenhin]

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Re: Tolkien Inspirations

I believe that Tolkien got most of his inspiration from the ancient Nordic and Germanic myths. For example, most of the Dwarf-names in the Hobbit and the names Durin and Gandalf are from the Norwegian Edda sagas. He was also familiar with Finnish myths, and the tale of Turin is said to be based on the tale of Kullervo (which is found in Kalevala, the Finnish national ephos).

--
Elenhin

"My god, it's full of stars!"</p>

[Sharkû]

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Re: Tolkien Inspirations

The dwarven names from the Vóluspa are a method of translation used by JRRT. The dwarves from the region of Erebor and most other of Dúrin's folk took outer names from the legends of that region. As we don't know these legends, Tolkien substituted the dwarves' outer names for dwarf names of European legend.

The tale of Kullervo the Hapless is another thing. But there we do not have more than the story of a tragic fate-stricken hero which is typical for European myths in general.



btw, this is the highly recommendable link to the Vóluspa (translated by none less than WH Auden!) where you'll find dozens of Tolkien's dwarf names... asatru.org/voluspa.html
Not to mention the importance of the song itself.

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000003>Sharku</A> at: 7/15/01 7:37:08 pm

[Elenhin]

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Re: Tolkien Inspirations

Dwarf-names: Your explanation is correct, I think... but I believe that it was devised several years after Tolkien had published the Hobbit. In the Hobbit, he didn't have to care about the origin of the names that much because it was originally a children's book and not connected to his larger mythology.
(I probably had the saga name wrong; I'm not an expert on Norwegian mythology)

Kullervo: Yes, Europe is full of similar myths. But both the Turin-story and Kullervo-story end in the same (that is, they say almost the same words) conversation between the protagonist and his sword. There are other similarities as well, but that's the most obvious one.

--
Elenhin

"My god, it's full of stars!"</p>

[Odysseus819]

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Re: Tolkien Inspirations

What about the Arthurian Avalon and Avallonë? Probably just sounded like a cool name to JRRT as well.

Get you gone, and fly! For here is a fire that shall consume you and all evil things. </p>

[The X Phial]

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Re: Tolkien Inspirations

Mithras was worshipped in England, as in all areas occupied by the Romans. He was a war god and in the shape of a bull (I'm pretty sure). JRRT would have known about it simply because he was a scholar, not for religious reasons.

-*-The X Phial-*- "Yet more fair is the living land of Lorien, and the Lady Galadriel is above all the jewels that lie beneath the earth!"</p>

[Evenspire]

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Inspiration

I was searching the internet for public gardens and found this.

Castle Drogo was the last built in England. I THOUGHT Drogo and Frodo were odd names. Now I know where Drogo came from...

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[stone of vision]

Hail,
Reading this thread reminded me of the first time I have "met" Lotr.( oi,oi nostalgy!)

I was 12, grew with greek mythology legends of all parts Europe, fascinating by the asian, the nordic, celtic and medieval stories.

I didn't know a thing of tolkien, the title attracted me, recalling me the nordic legend of the Niebelungen.

My head was full of pictures of brave knights" without and griefs", from round table of Avalon, powerful and wisdom wizards like the the most famous of them, Merlin, a lady living in the enchanted forest of Broceliande where grow golden trees, Vivian...
I don't forget all the chimerical and fabulous bestiary.

No way, I have been caught by tolkien's world since