coincidence ?

[gayare'dion]

i find it strange that sauron, had his ring finger cut off by isildur , and frodos ring finger was bitten off by gollum. so both the maker and (sorta)destroyer of the ring lost the same finger. coincidence ?

[Gayalondiel]

I don't think its a coincidence at all. It connects Frodo symbolically with Sauron, demonstrating the part of him that is lost with the Ring, just as Sauron himself is lost.
Thats just my view though, I imagine there are plenty of people ready to disagree! smilies/smile.gif

Incidentally, it seemed a pity to me that Peter Jackson, working in a highly symbolic medium, missed this completely and lopped off all Sauron's fingers.

[burrahobbit]

In addition to that, it's really hard to get a ring off of a finger that it doesn't want to come off of. If you make a fist you pretty much assure that the ring is going to stay put unless somebody takes the whole finger.

[O'Boile]

Good post Gayalondiel.

[Evisse the Blue]

I agree, burrahobbit, the owner of the ring couldn't be made to give up the ring, and it had to be taken by force.
On the other hand, I think Gandalf said once that if somebody tried to take the ring from you by force, you'd go mad. Could this be the true source of Frodo's illness? what do you guys think?

[Belin]

Interestingly enough, the other method of passing the Ring on is repeated as well--it's a birthday present. Gollum seized it as one, and not only did Bilbo tell a story similar to Gollum's to Gandalf and the Dwarves, he gave it to Frodo on his birthday--simultaneously a birthday present for both of them. Obviously, it had to be given freely or taken by violence, but I'm not sure what the repition of the birthday is all about. However, if I were to go into Heavy-Handed Critic Mode (watch out, it could happen at any moment), I would point out the difference between Gollum's expectation of recieving gifts on his birthday (used as an excuse to take what he wanted) and the usual hobbitish practice of giving gifts on one's birthday, as Bilbo did. This certainly says something about Gollum's mentality, and his deviance from normal hobbitness, doesn't it?

Evisse--Yes, and a good point. I believe this came up in a very good Frodo thread a month or so ago, which I can probably find for you if you like...but, nahhh, let's have another discussion of it here. People may well say different things.

--Belin Ibaimendi
(It's my birthday soon. Can you tell?)

[ July 27, 2002: Message edited by: Belin ]

[Sarin Elfarmour]

as some one said before the ring wouldn't just slip off frodo's finger to fall to it's firey doom, it was probaly tight enough on his finger so that it wouldn't fall away before suaron could get it

[Birdland]

And don't forget that the ring could expand or contract at will, making it impossible to get it off a finger if it didn't "want" to be removed.

So in many cases, maiming the hand would be the only way to remove the ring, if it felt threatened.

[Iargwath]

Hmmm this never crossed my mind before. Good topic i must say.
By the way great reply Gayalondiel smilies/smile.gif