Silima?

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Essence of Darkness
Posts: 379</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
In the Silmarillion (concerning the Silmarils):

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> But not until the End, when Fëanor shall return who perished ere the Sun was made, and sits now in the Halls of Awaiting and comes no more among his kin; not until the Sun passes and the Moon falls, shall it be known of what substance they were made. <hr></blockquote>

And in the Silmarillion’s Index of Quenya and Sindarin Names:

<blockquote>Quote:<hr> sil- ‘shine (with white or silver light)’ in Belthil, Galathilion… (etc.) The Quenya word Silmarilli is said to derive from the name silima that Fëanor gave to the substance of which they were made. <hr></blockquote>

I’m baffled.


</p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wraith of Angmar
Posts: 1421</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Silima?

Feanor named the substance that he made the Silmarils from, but the substance was only known to him. People knew that they were made from silma but they had no idea what that was <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)">

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
<font size="2">I usually haunt http://www.barrowdowns.comThe Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiMiddle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[Mister Underhill]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 89</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Silima?

Kinda like those space-age Ginsu knives that can cut rusty tin cans in half and then still slice a tomato like cutting through warm butter.

</p>

[Gwaihir the Windlord]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Essence of Darkness
Posts: 380</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Silima?

Simple! I should've thought of that myself. By the wayside, Wight, have you found my addressed emails yet? How long do you think that Cd will take to travel from the US to Australia?

</p>

[dogtrot]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 51</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Silima?

well they still use the old pony express in iowa so don't look for it until christmas.<img src=smile.gif ALT=":)">

</p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wraith of Angmar
Posts: 1423</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Silima?

At least we don't let Folly Furrfoot deliver any of our mail. It'd take longer than if we gave it to Isengar Took <img src=wink.gif ALT=";)">

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
<font size="2">I usually haunt http://www.barrowdowns.comThe Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiMiddle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[dogtrot]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 52</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Silima?

ah! stabbed in the heart by the wight!

</p>

[The Barrow-Wight]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wraith of Angmar
Posts: 1462</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Silima?

<img src=laugh.gif ALT=":lol"> dogtrot AND Folly have returned!!!! All it took was a jab at dog to get Folly back. What's really funny is that I sound like a character from the story complaining about how long it take Folly to get somewhere. <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)">

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
<font size="2">I usually haunt http://www.barrowdowns.comThe Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiMiddle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[HerenIstarion]

Haunting Spirit
Posts: 84
Re: Silima?

Back to the topic, gentlemen, back to the topic :)

That silmarills were made of silima, and that was known to other elves, does not mean anything. I know, that my PC case is made of plastic, I even know how that plastic looks like, but, having poor chemical education, I can't tell you its substance. And if some of the scientists makes some new plastic, which is unique among all other kinds of them plastics, everybody can say, yeah, I know what that is, that's plastic, but in fact s/he would not know exactly what are they talking about.

Same with Fëanor - he created the Stones and named the material, invented by himself, silima. Then the rest may have said, ok, those stones are made of silima. But nowhere is stated that anyone but Fëanor knew what that silima actually was.

[The Barrow-Wight]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wraith of Angmar
Posts: 1463</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Silima?

That's what I said.....!

The Barrow-Wight (RKittle)
<font size="2">I usually haunt http://www.barrowdowns.comThe Barrow-Downs</a> and The Barrow-Downs http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgiMiddle-Earth Discussion Board</a>.</p>

[HerenIstarion]

Haunting Spirit
Posts: 86 Re: Silima?

Sorry, Ron, I simply missed your reply while scrolling and started reading with ginsu knives :(


P.S. what's ginsssus, my precious, what ginsssussss?

[Saulotus]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 140</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Silima?

The ones that were found in department stores priced at a dime a dozen at the time?
Bought and repackaged for the ad, and sold at the higher price?

You should check into this historical ad campaign for it's significance to television ad sales.

Interesting analogy to Silma however....

</p>

[HerenIstarion]

Wight
Posts: 103
Re: Silima?

Ok, I was joking, but I must confess I really have no idea what a ginsu knife is (have never seen one) :)

[Feanor]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Pile o' Bones
Posts: 14</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Silima?

Does Tolkien talk about what silima is made form anywhere in his letters? And I have a feeling I should know what silima is made from... <img src=wink.gif ALT=";)">





</p>

[Aldaron]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Newly Deceased
Posts: 9</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Silima?

Yes, Feanor, indeed you should know what silima is made of. After all, you're the man. Just last night I read that section of the Silmarillion. Feanor certainly didn't have any respect for his half-brothers, did he?

</p>

[Orald]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shadow of Malice
Posts: 608</TD><TD><img src=http://www.fingolfin.com/JRRT.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Silima?

Didn't seem like it. He has time to think about that while he is in Mandos.

It seems fate is not without a sense of irony.</p>

[lindil]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Seeker of the Straight Path
Posts: 426</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
Silima and co-creation

I wil throw out abit of unfounded speculation [which is sure to please Mithadan <img src=smile.gif ALT=":)"> ].

I would hazard that the Silmarills and silima were a combination of the stuff that Noldorin gems were made out of [which was 'common' lore in Noldorin gem smith circles] and the energies produced by Feanor's meditations upon them and the 2 Trees .
It is said that Feanor knew more of the Valinorean tounge [the atual language of the Valar and Maiar -not Valinorean Quenya] than anyother of the Elves - but did not share his lore , and so I would not be suprised if the essence of these words [of whom probably he alone may have used in gem craft] 'unlocked' the physical substance and that by long ,very long meditation on them while exposing the silima to the light of the trees , he was able to effect a blending of the Noldorin gem-lore and the Light of the Trees .
The palantiri and the Noldorin lamps were lesser essya on the same theme.

In this he approached a level of creation nearly equal that of the Valar
themselves, and this was his undoing ; that he forgot that w/ out Eru
and the Valar he would have had nothing with which to begin his
works, or indeed any native skill. and herein I think is a partial source
of Feanors bitterness [the prime factor being the sentencing of his
mother to the Halls of Mandos till the end of the world]. With the
Silmarills he had gone as far as his energies and creative abilities
[and perhaps the very nature of Elves] woiuld allow but like the
Numenoreans who had 'more' on all levels , he was the least content
of all in the realm of Arda .
He had learned the art of capturing Light , but he remained on some
levels a stranger to it in his heart.

It is heartening [for Feanor's redemption] that at The End [according
to the 2nd prophecy of Mandos] Feanor will unlock the Silmarills and
Yavanna will restore the 2 Trees .




Lindil



</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000076>lindil</A> at: 2/23/01 8:45:52 am

[enep]

<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Shade of Carn Dûm
Posts: 379</TD><TD><img src=http://www.dodgywebsite.homestead.com/files/Kungfu_01.gif WIDTH=60 HEIGHT=60></TD></TR></TABLE>
Re: Silima and co-creation

Interesting speculations, lindil. IMO, silima is just silima. Like Gurthang was fashioned out of galvorn. We know that galvorn came from a meteorite, but how was it extracted and made to produce such a weapon?

We know that the silmarils were fashioned out of silima. We know that silima came from Feanor, but how was it that he made it to produce such gems?

Another enigma. Tom eat your heart out. <img src=wink.gif ALT=";)">

- enep</p>