View Full Version : Elven Rings

10-19-2000, 07:12 AM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 235</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
During my long overdue re-read of LoTR, I was struck by the vividness of JRRT's description of Lorien, particularly of the quality of light and colors in that elven enclave. Lorien's nature is attributed to the power of Galadriel, and, though not stated expressly, her Ring. The elven Rings were designed and used to delay decay and to heal; one might say to preserve the elvishness of the lands where the Bearers lived. JRRT's description of Lorien appears to be intended to evoke a vision of the First Age when the world was young (see the debate of Gimli and Eomer re: Arwen representing the evening and Galadriel representing the morning). To me, JRRT's vivid description of Lorien reminds me of sunlight on green grass or shining through green leaves in the springtime.

To get to the point, the vividness of JRRT's description of Lothlorien under the power of Galadriel and her Ring is entirely unlike his description of Rivendell, even though Elrond also wielded an elven Ring there. Unlike Lorien, Rivendell does not seem to evoke the same feel of elvishness. Entering Rivendell is not like stepping back into the First Age while Lorien seems like a different world or a different time. Any ideas why?

"The Silmarils with living light
were kindled clear, and waxing bright
shone like stars that in the North
above the reek of earth leap forth." </p>

Mister Underhill
10-19-2000, 09:07 AM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wight
Posts: 126</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/narya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Re: Elven Rings

Good topic, Mithadan! It seems to me that the methods, motives, and personalities of the bearers makes all the difference.

Galadriel (aka Melian Jr.) and Celeborn seem to have a more First Age, isolationist, &quot;Elves Only&quot; thing happening in Lorien. They don't seem to be terribly concerned with goings-on outside of their own realm. Elrond, on the other hand, seems more involved with the problems and people of Middle-earth. Rivendell seems to be more &quot;multi-cultural&quot;, or at least more receptive to guests and visitors of all sorts. In this way, perhaps, some of that &quot;old-time&quot; Elvishness is lost in Rivendell (though that isn't necessarily a bad thing!)

</p>Edited by: <A HREF=http://www.barrowdowns.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_profile&u=00000005>Mister Underhill</A> at: 10/19/00 3:58:35 pm

10-19-2000, 12:59 PM
<font face="Verdana"><table><TR><TD><FONT SIZE="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haunting Spirit
Posts: 65</TD><TD></TD></TR></TABLE>
<img src="http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/posticons/narya.jpg" align=absmiddle> Elrond

Like I said...Elrond is the man! ha ha!

...as kind as summer...



10-20-2000, 07:49 AM
Posts: 118

The difference was caused of course by different bearers, and still by different rings too.

In Lorien time was not flawing as elsewhere, and the feeling of world-as-it-was-young was in the air, but Rivendell was preserving the charm of all beautiful places of the middle earth - some kind of space preserving. I have no my books with me, so I can not give a quote here, still, don't you remember Frodo mentioning that in Rivendell there was accumulatad beauty of all the places, except the sea? Also Rivendell was more 'individually oriented' - to be there was as good as being at home and visiting a friend at the same time, the place was nice for work and laziness, reading and singing, sleeping and eating and so on. If I were to choose, I would prefer to take my abide at Elrond's rather than in Lothlorien - my choice is to have a chance to look back sometimes, not to stay young unchanged almost forever.

01-07-2002, 08:40 PM
The tree rings have special fetures. Can't it have affect that in Lothlorien is the ring of water. Water is one of the most important substances for trees to grow....

Same thing in rivendell it's gives a feeling that you are home, but still at a friends. It could be nice, at ease and quite and there is the ring of air.....

But then the last ring entered my thoughts, Ring of fire. A hot climate all year long or what benfit does it give....???

01-07-2002, 09:30 PM
I was also recently reading the chapters when the company is in Lorien and I totally agree that Tolkien did a great job with the description of that land. I really like the part where they pass the gates and see lights and hear singing above them. Anyway, Aragorn says of Lorien that "Here lies the heart of Elvendom in Middle Earth..." Galadriel clearly misses Valinor and probably wanted to create a land similar to Aman, since as others have pointed out to me she was unable to return to Aman. Lorien is the heart of elvendom on earth because it best preserves the culture of elves in the blessed lands. Conversely Elrond had never been to Valinor and envisioned a different type of paradise, and created it via his ring. As has already been mentioned Rivendell has a kind of best of every world type of atmosphere. As for the ring of fire its power was not to slow down time but to enflame the hearts of men to do great deeds.

[ January 07, 2002: Message edited by: Thingol ]

01-08-2002, 12:51 AM
Galadriel had the ring of adamant, which the dictionary defines as unyielding, with Galadriel having lived in Valinor at the time of the Two Trees, as well as in Doriath and learnign from Melian, the Ring helped her to create that past age into Lothlorien, and preserve it, and protect it with a girdle much like Melian's. If I remember right one of the Hobbits, Frodo maybe made a remark about the stars in Lothlorien were strange too. I think with the ring and her own ability she was able to create such a timeless beautiful place. Elrond had the ring of Air, which others may have a better idea of what that could do, but as air is in almost everything, I beleive Elrond controlled the elements of Rivendell with it, Like the Fords. Gandalf had the ringof fire that had the power to strengthen hearts (not Balrogs)

Eowyn of Ithilien
01-09-2002, 03:05 AM
I thought I'd posted-perhaps it got lost :/
I'd rather live in Lothlorien, but would need to escape the memories sometimes...Rivendell and Lorien also seem to mimic Elrond and Galadriel physically-Lorien is golden and radiant, whereas Rivendell is darker and still beautiful...*red I need an Elrond quote!*

01-18-2002, 05:19 PM
First time here, hello! Lothlorien is the place which interests me most in LOTR's.I always imagine it as having an archaic quality about it, people mention sunlight and springtime but from Tolkein's descriptions it was more subtle than that, it wasn't really affected by weather and the seasons like the outside world, everything was more subtle,like looking through a veil, screened from everyday influences.Even though the Frodo & co arrived in the middle of winter, the climate was mild enough to sleep outside and floweres were blooming. I always imagine it like being in a vast cathedral, expectant, silent, cool, serene, not the sort of place to run around in or talk loudly. I guess the sense of other wordliness could have been omnipressant.
Time also passed differently, when the company rested there they lost track of time and found it impossible to say how long they had been there with accuracy.
It is sometimes scary being in ancient places which have few reminders of the world we come from and I think Lothlorien was like that, superficially familiar but fundamentally alien, full of memories of things which were from another time and place.
Remember Galadriel must have been 1000's of years old, the very experience of the passage of time she had would be beyond a mortal's understanding. She was also in exile, apparently doomed to live forever outside the Undying lands. The very place had been created and moulded by her, sustained by the power of the ring Nenya, to remind her of where she came from. She was given the Mallorn trees from Numenor (apparently not the easiest things to grow), had seen every single one grow to maturity. She knew everything about her realm, was its soul, its conscience in a way. At its heart though I believe would have been a bitter sweet melancholy, afterall it was in effect a small island, cut off from everything it pertained to, doomed to last forever in terrible perfection.
When the power of her ring faded , so Lothlorien lost its soul and sense of otherness and became part of the everyday world once again.
I thought they captured the atmosphere very well in the film, especially musically. The fact the elves looked and spoke strangely really captured there non human nature. Hope this isn't too wierd!

01-18-2002, 06:48 PM
To me a Tolkien fan is being so into all works and writing of him that you don't care what anyone thinks about it. Or of what anyone thinks of you and you being a fan of some thing, and you look into any thing you don't know or have never heard of.. this is what being a fan is all about, not just the love for the books but also you enjoyment and excitement you get of looking up some thing new.