If you were Sam on Sauron's Road...

[Kalimac]

There have been kind of a lot of the hypothetical questions lately, so thought I'd add one. In the "last gasp" scene on Sauron's road, Sam encounters Gollum while Frodo goes on ahead to the Cracks of Doom. Gollum throws himself down in front of Sam and makes his "When Precious goes, we'll die into the dust" speech, and Sam at the end has pity on him (shades of Bilbo) and lets him go.

Obviously that act of mercy affected the rest of the story like nothing else could have. So the question is, if you were in Sam's situation, would you have killed Gollum or not? Seriously; and remembering what Gollum had put you through three or four days ago with Shelob and the Tower. I like to think I'd be merciful in his place, but considering how much he hated Gollum already, and how nobody could really say that Gollum didn't richly deserve killing at that point, and also how Frodo and Sam were *at* the Mountain and it looked like the end of things anyway...eh, I don't know. I might have done it, wrong as it undoubtedly was. And of course the spinoff of this question is, if you *had* done it, what would you have done once Frodo claimed the Ring? Honestly, I can see Sam pushing Frodo in if that's what it takes, though he would undoubtedly go in right alongside him.

I'm sure there have been variants on this one asked already, but please post any thoughts smilies/smile.gif. Thanks.

[Joy]

I think that in the end that if I were Sam, I would have been merciful to Gollum. I am that type of person. I will not be run over -I will defend myself and those around me, but if there is another way, I chose that. Knowing the words of Olorin (Gandalf) - not an exact quote. Some live that deserve death. Others die that deserve life. Can you give it to them. Then do not be eager to deal out death in judgement... He may have yet some part to play.
I would let Gollum live, I would have to. If Frodo did claim the Ring, then I would have to step in and do something, no matter how drastic. - Let's just say that I have had to take some drastic measures to protect someone people in my family twice.

[Raefindel]

I would likely have killed him. He had had so many chances that I would not hav trusted him enough to set him free.

Having done that I would then be faced with having to help Frodo give the ring up. Not an easy task as he had already made up his mind. smilies/frown.gif

[Raefindel]

Hey! Someone finally rated me! Cool! Thanks! smilies/biggrin.gif

[Birdland]

I'm with Sam. I don't think I could have killed Gollum in cold blood after he "surrendered". If he had attacked again, then it would have been a matter of self-defence, but to strike an enemy groveling in the dust wouldn't be in Sam's nature, and he is to be admired for that.

Now if he had killed Gollum, would he have been capable of stopping Frodo? Frodo would have been in total thrall (always wanted to use the word "thrall" in a sentence! Thrall! Thrall! Thrall!)...ahem... of the ring, and would have attacked Sam with no remorse.

In the few minutes that would be left to them before Sauron seized them, I doubt that Sam could have stopped him. In fact, Frodo would have probably slain him.

I can't think of a worse fate then Frodo killing his best friend. So Sam's mercy was exactly the right choice. The One knew what he was doing when he chose Sam.

[Daisy Sandybanks]

*sniffles*

This is such a sad toic, I just pictured poor Sam pushing Frodo into the boiling lava, and then Sam crying and saying somthing like "what have I done?!" and then jumping to his death after Frodo. smilies/frown.gif

At least it didn't happen though. Well, since I already know what happens in the end, I would choose to not kill Gollum, even though he did try to kill Sam and Frodo earlier on. I thin I ave this soft spot for him, surprisingly.

[Raefindel]

Yes, it's true, he DID surrender, and I had forgotten that. (it has been so long since I've read the book) If he had surrendered I think I would have tied him up to make sure he didn't do any more mischief.(and still failed in the end)

Thrall, thrall, thrall!
smilies/biggrin.gif

[ March 12, 2002: Message edited by: Raefindel ]

[Kalimac]

Now that I think of it, tying him up would probably be more likely for me (though of course the end result would be the same, in the sense that he probably couldn't escape quickly enough to attack Frodo before the Nazgul came to gull him out and then destroy him). Maybe I should rephrase it - would you have killed him *before* he surrendered? (When Gollum first grabs Sam, after all, he's justified in not thinking it's a friendly overture). Sorry guys, I'm not trying to sound bloodthirsty, it's just one of the ways I like to think about history - not that this is history, but in Tolkien's universe it is smilies/smile.gif. Not "What was the best thing to do" but "What would you have thought was the best thing, since you didn't know how the story ended?"

[Rosa Underhill]

I honestly don't know what I'd do. On the one hand, I'm a softy, (I sobbed when I feed a baby rat to a snake), but on the other, one doesn't know how travel and danger will change one. If I had killed Gollum, I think I might just have tried to run poor Frodo off the edge of the cliff and into the crack, carrying myself over with him, (if I were as devoted as Sam, anyways).

I read this most horribly sad fic written as a "What if..." where Frodo managed to get the Ring from Gollum as he (Gollum) fell into the fire. It was horrible! He ran Sam through with his sword and became the Dark Lord for all of...a day. Then Sauron got him. It was very sad.

[Raefindel]

I don't mean to sound harsh in saying I would have killed him or tied him up, but I think (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm the only mother to post on this thread so far. I think like a mother. A mother would not have just felt sorry for the "tortured creature" she would have taken appropriate action to deter further mis-behavior. You know that old "be consistent" thing. Mothers are that way.

[Kalimac]

Thanks everyone for posting! (Yay! I'm a Wight! smilies/smile.gif)

Raefindel, good point. I don't have any children but I think I know what you're getting at - you can be a lot fiercer when you're afraid for someone else than when you're afraid just for yourself, and "to know all is to forgive all" doesn't always affect you very much. And Sam is definitely taking a very parentlike attitude towards Frodo at this point ("He won't be able to do anything for himself" and piggybacking him up Mount Doom).

And here in the comfort of my computer room I definitely feel sorry for Gollum knowing his background, whether I would have felt that way if actually sitting next to him in Middle-Earth is another question. The scariest experience I've had is being held at gunpoint by four guys; considering the part of the world we were in, I don't doubt that several of them had very sad backgrounds, a la Gollum, but if I'd been given chapter and verse of their stories at that point I still wouldn't have felt anything but the desire to get as far away from them as possible. If they'd surrendered, though, no, nothing violent. But definitely tying them up or something just to keep myself from being harmed. Fortunately Sam was wiser ...

[Raefindel]

Did anyone see "Saving Private Ryan"? Remember when they let the German guy go cause he was crying and waving an American flag? Then later he killed one of their members. That is a much more typical and realistic result to such a situation of "showing mercy"

I don't feel that the way things turned out in LOTR for Sam, Frodo and all Middle Earth is a typical a outcome. Yes it made for an exciting story, and I did enjoy it. But put modern-day Me it that situation and I make 21 st century decisions.

I guess it is a good thing it wasn't me instead of Sam because the outcome would have been very different. smilies/frown.gif

[Gorin Icearms]

Most likely I would've tied him up too, but there's only one problem with that. Sam only had the Elven rope from Lorien, and Gollum gets burned/frozen from the pureness woven into it. Gollum would then have either fought back, and Sam would have to kill him anyway, or gnaw his hands/feet off. Which then creates the problem of wrestling with Frodo, it would be kinda hard if he's missing an apendage. Most likely he'd lose to Frodo, then Sam would have to take the Ring from him (somehow). Then either they would both fall in or the Nazgul would've gotten there just in time.

(Ok I'm done now smilies/biggrin.gif)

[Starbreeze]

I would have let him go - not because i'm particularly merciful - I would have wanted to kill him, I just don't feel that I could kill anything, ever. I have this thing about killing things - I even apologise to plants when I tread on them - sad eh? smilies/biggrin.gif

[ElanorGamgee]

I don't think I would be able to kill Gollum; I pity him too much. I'd probably go into a rage and kick him around or knock him unconcious. Not the kindest thing to do, I know, but I wouldn't be able to kill him.

[Teleliniel]

i agree with ElanorGamgee. id give him a swift kick in the butt (or the head) and charge after frodo

[Merry]

I honestly don't know what I would do. See, I don't like the fact of death and I would never want to kill anyone. However, nobody has ever betrayed me and try to kill someone who was dear to me. I also wouldn't kill them because it is not leagle. I don't know about the circumstance back then.

[Eärendil]

Sadly, if I were Sam, I think I would have killed Gollum, as he had done so much bad to me and Frodo.. smilies/frown.gif
Though, I am not totally sure, I don´t like the thought of killing anyone, and I feel a kind of pity for Gollum, so..who knows?


Welcome to the Downs Merry! smilies/smile.gif

[Aralaithiel]

I'm with Elanor. I would have given him a thorough roughing up. Maybe enough to cause some severe internal damage, but not enough to kill him outright. I would want him to stew in his own misery, and think long and hard about the damage he's done. I think sometimes being forced to waste away remembering up until you draw your last breath all the evil you've inflicted is a worse punishment than death. And no, I'm not a mother (except to my cat, 2 dogs, and a horse!).

[alaklondewen]

I am a mother, and I know that I would kill to defend my child. But knowing that Gollum surrendered, I would have probably shown him mercy. I feel it would be very difficult for me to take another's life, unless he was a direct threat. And even though he had been in the past, he wasn't at that particular moment.
If Sam had killed Gollum, I do see him throwing Frodo and himself into the fire. He knew he had a part to play, and he would consider it a fulfillment.

[Aroaraniel]

Hmmm...well, in such a situation, I'd be so, confused and hurried that I would probably drop the sword and run after Frodo. But then, Gollum would pick up the sword, and follow and then kill Frodo before dropping into Mount Doom...that wouldn't be good...good thing that wasn't me. Three cheers for the wisdom of Sam!!

[Child of the 7th Age]

Hey, hobbits don't kill hobbits. At least I don't think so--just look at the scouring of the Shire. And underneath all that hideousness, there is a core of Gollum that's still a pitiful hobbit. So, since I think of myself as a hobbit, I say leave him be. Anyways, my thoughts would be more on getting back to Frodo than on wasting too much time with Gollum......

[Merry]

I've seriously been thinking about it and looking up some stuff. I still don't know what I would do. You need to think about it. Remember what Gandalf said to Frodo at the very begining of the Fellowdhip of the Ring? He said "some who live deserve death and some who die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Don't be too quick to deal out death in judgement." Granted Sam probably had no idea Gandalf said that. But if you look at it at that viewpoint it sorta turns the situation around. If I could see the future however I would spare him because Thanks to Gollum, The ring was destroyed.

[Morquesse]

Like some of you, I could never kill something unless I absolutly had to, including Gollum. I probably would show him mercy like Sam did, tie him up with the Elven rope, or ignore him and try to rush to help Frodo.
If Frodo had put on the Ring and Gollum wasn't there to bite his finger, I probably would throw frodo in the lava, and not throw myself in, and regret it the rest of my life.
~M

[Banshee]

I would not kill him. And I cannot imagine Sam killing him, I think if he did, that would haunt him till the rest of his days. Sincerely, to me killing one like Gollum is like tearing the wings of a fly, no matter how wicked he was.
And yes, I also see quite clearly how Sam would push Frodo in the fire hadn't Gollum been there. And he would do that not only to save the world from the Ring, but for Frodo's sake, because of his loyalty towards him.
Spasibo za horoshiy vopros.

[Elanor the Fair]

I think that I wuld have let Gollum pass, because I would be thinking that Froto was going to cast the ring in, so Gollum would die according to Gollum's speech. And If Gollum never fought Froto to get the ring, I think that Sam could talk Froto and him into casting the ring together, or wait until Froto dies (for they had very food left to live much longer) and take the ring and jump in. That seems like the thing that Sam would do.

[Eorl of Rohan]

I'd killed Smeagol without slightest amount of hesistation. Not only were their lives in danger, the whole middle earth depended on him to fulfill the quest.

And when Frodo claimed the ring... Sam would probably shout "No, Mr.Frodo!" and slam into him, both falling into the fissure of mount doom with the ring.

[Kransha]

If I were Sam, I would let Gollum live for one of the reasons posted above. Even Sam can figure out that Gollum would try again to get the Ring, so if I were he, I would let Gollum live and wait for him to try to get the ring at Sammath Nuar. When he did, push him in. It would be a lot easier than having to push Frodo down there, or possibly going down with him.