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View Full Version : What does Mandos mean when he says 'Not the First'?


Sleepy Ranger
08-13-2003, 04:44 AM
In the chapter Of The Flight Of the Noldor, Mandos says 'Not the first' in reply to what Feanor says. I dont quite understand what he meant by that. A little help please

Måns
08-13-2003, 05:05 AM
He, as you know, said that he would not be the first of all Eldar to lay slain in Aman, by which I assume that Mandos had knowledge or some 'fore'boding of what had happened at Formenos laready, with Finwë Fëanor's father, slain.

Måns

Mariska Greenleaf
08-13-2003, 08:53 AM
That was also my idea. He was referring to his father Finwe, who would be the first to be slain.
But I think it is strange, if Mandos had this feeling, or could make this prophecie, couldn't he stop it then?
Or do you think it was just an enevitable event?

Lord of Angmar
08-13-2003, 09:13 AM
Mandos has forboding and often foresees and portends things, but it is not his place to act on this forboding. Yes, he was referring to Finwe's death at Formenos, and some also have said that he meant the death of Miriel, mother of Feanor. I think the first is more likely, because a) it sets up the sack of Formenos and b) Mandos often foretells but it would make no sense in the context if he brought up the obvious (the fact that Miriel was dead).

The Squatter of Amon Rûdh
08-13-2003, 02:19 PM
The passage describing the arrival of the messengers from Formenos suggests to me that Mandos may know of Finwë's death not because he has forseen it but because it has already taken place. It would have taken some time for the death of Finwë to be discovered by the Noldor of Formenos, still more for messengers to bring the news to the Ring of Doom. However, Finwë's fëa would have arrived in the Halls of Mandos very soon after his death, and it could be that amid the confusion the master of those halls would have become aware that a new spirit had come to his keeping.

Amrod the Hunter
11-28-2004, 08:59 AM
It says in the description of the Valar that Mandos is the judge and he can foresee future,but he gives his opinion only when Manwe asks him.So,Mandos has probably foreseen that Finwe will die even before Feanor said that he is going to be the first who will be killed in Valinor.

Feanor of the Peredhil
11-28-2004, 02:22 PM
This (http://forum.barrowdowns.com/showthread.php?t=1448) might help.

Fea

the phantom
11-29-2004, 12:28 PM
I can't stand people who shamelessly plug their own threads.

:p