Castles in Middle Earth

[Eol Telemnar]

Hey, I have a question or two:
1.How many castles and important buildings are there in Middle Earth?
2.What are the Names of The castles and important buildings?

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 9:12 PM December 14, 2003: Message edited by: Eol Telemnar ]

[Eol Telemnar]

ADDED QUESTION TO MY ORIGINAL:

3.How many elven places are there?
4. What are they called?

basicly, add elven places to the original

smilies/biggrin.gif

[Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar]

First age of the sun and moon-
1. Gondolin
2. Nargothrond
3. That place in the forest thats name i can never remember
4. Angband (thangorodrim)

Second age-
1. Rivendell, i think
2. The numenorean capital
3. Minas Anor (later minas tirith)
4. Minas Ithil (later minas morgul)
5. Barad-dur

Third age-
1. Minas Tirith
2. Minas Morgul
3. Barad-dur (again)
4. Rivendell (again)

Thre are more, i think, that i have forgotten

[Lord of Angmar]

There are not many castles in Middle Earth. Tolkien used towers as places of military strength, and of these there were many. Try doing a search on "Towers".

As for the second part of your question, there are also many "Elven places" in Middle Earth. In the Third Age, the chief abodes of the Elves were Imladris, Lothlorien and Mirkwood.

In the First Age there were too many places to name. Aside from the Undying Lands, there was the Kingdom of Thingol and Melian that is called Doriath, along with Hithlum, Dorthonion, Nevrast, Thargelion, Himlad and Dor-lomin, which were the abodes of various Noldorin Elves (Fingolfin, Fingon, the Sons of Feanor, etc.). These were all part of or in the general vicinity of Beleriand, the large land area wherein the battles between the Elves and Morgoths took place, I am just writing these off the topic of my head, since I do not have the Silm with me at the moment.

Cirdan the Shipwright was Lord of a place called the Falas during the First Age, and later he abode in the Elven realm of Lindon in the Second Age. In much of the Third Age and into the Fourth Age, he dwelt at Mithlond, the Grey Havens, and his ships sailed away with Elves to Valinar before, during and after the War of the Ring.

This is really just a random collection of thoughts. You can learn more about any of these terms via a search on these fora, a look at the Encyclopedia of Arda (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/) or any number of other sources.

Cheers,
Angmar

[Eol Telemnar]

Lord of Angmar, could you give a list of castles and elven places (exept the 1st age, since you say there are too many to list) please???

[Eol Telemnar]

Angmar, what i mean is that to give lists for castles and elven places of the following

1.2nd age
2.3rd age
3.any ages after that(if any, i don't know, I forgot most of what i read in the Silmarillion and others. THANKS!!! smilies/biggrin.gif

[Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar]

For eol, Castle=fortified city/stronghold.
This may help to clear up confusion about the fact that there are no actual castles in middle earth.
What he wants is a list of the places that were fortified and/or were defended by elves. Thus, i do not think lothlorien was a 'castle', given how eol thinks.

[The Saucepan Man]

Castle=fortified city/stronghold.


I disagree. A castle is a fortified building, not a fortified city. Cities may be built aroung castles, or they may be fortified themselves, as was the case with Minas Tirith, Minas Morgul and Edoras.

The only places falling within the traditional description of a castle in Middle-earth in the Third Age that I can think of offhand are the Hornburg at Helm's Deep, and the Tower of Cirith Ungol (which, although referred to as a tower, is more castle-like in its description). Orthanc and Barad-Dur come close, being fortified towers.

[dubleu]

saucepan think about Tuor Turambar's definition castle= city/STRONGHOLD (wishing i could use italics and underline)but icannot discredit your response. smilies/tongue.gif

[The Saucepan Man]

saucepan think about Tuor Turambar's definition castle

Or we could use a proper definition of "castle". smilies/tongue.gif smilies/wink.gif

[Eol Telemnar]

Alright, I'm changing my original question to say:
1.How many fortress/strongholds in Middle Earth are there.
2. What are the names
3.Elven places.
(seems to me there are NO castles In middle earth)

[Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar]

Saucepan Man: What I meant was, this is what Eol means by castle. Even if this is not what castle means, it is the information Eol wants.

Eol: Dont post 3 or 4 times in a row. Edit your original post, so there is no useless space taken up in the thread.

The main point of this post is to clear up any confusion over my earlier post.

EDIT: And this is NOT the place to post about your avatar.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 5:27 PM December 14, 2003: Message edited by: Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar ]

[Eol Telemnar]

I did not know you could edit your post! o'well.

alright. to put this in a way to where there will be no argument, How many kingdoms are there in ME?

[Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar]

In which age?
As far as i can remember, in the third age there was Gondor, Rohan, Mordor, and Eriador, which was not really a kingdom.
Man, I should really wait till I get home to post, so I have the books for reference.

[Olorin_TLA]

Don't forget Durthang!

Expilictly refferd to as a "castle" by Tolkine, it's in Mordor, and used to belong to Gondor, but now belongs to Sauron.

[Eol Telemnar]

Tuor:


ALL OF THEM!!! I really want to know ALL the kingdoms in ME. Including the dwarven kingdoms, even though that was kinda put into my other topic. I want ALL the kingdoms, good and evil, from every age. Elvish, Men, Dwarven, EVIL ( smilies/evil.gif), every single one of them!

[Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar]

OK, so there ARE actual castles in ME after all!

1st Age:
Doriath
Hithlum
Angband (more a place than a country)

2nd Age:
Numenor
Mordor
Any other countries in the south/east

3rd Age:
Gondor
Mordor
Erebor

Any more you find (I am SURE there are more) post! smilies/smile.gif

[Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar]

Wait- why dont you just find one of the maps of all the different ages?

[Iargwath]

Aren't "Strongholds" more commonly referred to as Citadels?

There is a comprehensive list of Fortresses/Strongholds over at The Encyclopedia of Arda (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm). Here is their list, and some small detail behind each stronghold. Each "Castle" is in *BOLD*.

Angband (First Age):- Citadel constructed by Melkor
Angrenost:- Elvish name for Isengard
Barad Eithel:- Fortress of Fingolfin and Fingon
Barad-dûr (Second Age):- Sauron's Dark Tower
Belegost (First Age):- Elvish name for a Dwarven citadel in the Blue Mountains
Dol Guldur (Third Age):- Stronghold of Sauron in Mirkwood
*Durthang:- An old Castle in the North of Mordor*
Formenos:- Nothern stronghold of Fëanor in Valinor
*Hornburg:- Castle guarding Helms Deep*
Isengard (Third Age):- Sauruman's fortress
Lugbúrz:- A name for Barad-dûr in the
Black Speech
Minas Anor (Third Age):- The original name of Minas Tirith
Minas Ithil (Third Age):- Isildur's Tower of the Moon, later called Minas Morgul after it was captured by the Nazgûl
Minas Morgul (Third Age):- Refer to Minas Ithil above
Minas Tirith, Beleriand (First Age):- The Tower that guarded the Pass of Sirion
Minas Tirith, Gondor Third & Fourth Age):- Gondor's Tower of Guard after the destruction of Osgiliath
Moontower:- A name for Minas Ithil
Mount Fang:- A name for Orthanc
Mundburg:- A name given to Minas Tirith by the people of Rohan
Nargothrond (First Age):- Hidden Fortress on the River Narog
Orthanc (Third & Fourth Age):- The Tower within the Ring of Isengard
Tower of Amon Sûl:- The Ancient Stronghold of Arnor, built by Elendil
Tower of Cirith Ungol (Third Age):- Originally a Gondorian watchtower, guarding the Ephel Dúath. Was later captured by Sauron's forces
Tower of Guard:- A name for Minas Tirith
Tower of Orthanc:- Originally built by Gondorians, and was given to Sauruman by Beren
Tower of Sorcery:- Title for Minas Morgul
Tower of the Moon:- Antoher name for The Tower of Minas Ithil
Tower of the Rising Moon:- Another name for The Tower of Minas Ithil (used in reference to it's geography)
Tower of the Setting Sun:- Another name for Minas Arnor
Towers of the Teeth:- The gateway at the Pass of Cirith Gorgor
Udûn:- Sindarian name for Utumno (fortress of Melkor)
Utumno (before the First Age):- Stronghold of Melkor in the Northern World

This is just a brief look at the Stongholds/Fortress' of Middle-earth. There are more detailed entries about each of these buildings at THIS (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm) page. Look directly under the "PLACES" section on your left-hand side.

[Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar]

OK, i think that that list and reference completely answered your question, Eol Telemnar. Is there anything left to discuss on this thread?

[Rumil]

I think an interesting question has been raised as to why there were so few castles in Middle Earth. In medieval times, especially in a dangerous region, there would be cstles every twenty miles or so. Consider Glamorgan, the Marcher Lordship wrested freom the Welsh, which had at least 50 greater or lesser castles over the years.

To try and answer my own question, I suppose that the central authorities were stronger than in medieval Britain, the population density was far, far lower, and the lands were, on a long time scale, more peaceful than medieval Europe.

Any Ideas?

[HaldirHD]

Well a good example of a castle in Middle-earth is Helms Deep. I think it is castle and if not serves pretty much the same purpose to any castle.

[Tuor Turambar,Cursed by the Valar]

Tis true, tis true, and has been said on this thread about 5 times.

The main reason there were no castles is that the population was mainly concentrated in cities with their own defenses, ie Minas Tirith, farmland, which would require castles to protect.
Also, simply because no castles are mentioned does not mean there are none. For all I know, there could be castles all over ME.

[Meneltarmacil]

As for there not being a lot of castles in Middle-Earth, I think there were probably more than are shown on the map. For instance, all the lords that led the different forces of Gondor into battle (i.e. Imrahil, Forlong, Dervorin etc.) probably had castles of their own, but are just not shown on the map.

[Finwe]

You also have to take the geography of the places that they came from into account. It's damn hard to build a castle when you're in the middle of mountains or hills, so it's highly unlikely that Gondorian vassals who lived in hilly areas came from castles. At best, I think that Imrahil had a castle, none of the others did.