Melkor

[anduin angel 44]

Is there any way for Melkor to die or be defeated?

[ January 07, 2003: Message edited by: Estelyn Telcontar ]

[Maylin]

I'm not sure but I think he already was defeated. ( thinks back to when she read the silmarilion) I'm ust guessing now, but I think Sauon, Melkor's servent took over. Though I'm not sure really what happened to him, since he was a Vala....(ponders)

I think there would probably be another topic on this somewhere, though I don't know, I'm fairly new myself.

[ January 04, 2003: Message edited by: Maylin ]

[the phantom]

Melkor is pretty much defeated when he's locked up in the void. But at the end of the world he's going to escape and fight again, but Turin (the coolest guy ever) is going to kill him with his magic black sword, and that's the end of Melkor.

[Mandos]

well that'a a colorful discription of it, but i do wonder if Gurthang could kill an immortal Vala.

[Manwe Sulimo]

Obviously, since Tolkien wrote it.

[LOTR_know-it-all55]

Exactly. What Tolkien says goes.

[Mandos]

I was not debating anything! I was simply pondering what is so special about Gurthang to set it apart from all the other swords to make this one the only one to kill Morgoth. And my goodness , people do enjoy echoing each other !

[LOTR_know-it-all55]

im sorry if echoing bothered you sooo much I was merely agreeing with the aforementioned statement

[zacattack]

There is absolutely no way that Melkor or any other Valar can be killed,they can be defeated,sorta,but never killed.

[the phantom]

Being Valar doesn't put them in a different class than Maia, it's merely denoting their position, or their job. Both Valar and Maia are considered Ainu, that's their race. We know that the Valar are Ainu. We also know that Ainu can be killed (balrogs). Therefore one of the Valar could be killed also.

If a being becomes too attached to its incarnate form, then it can be slain. Sauron didn't die when his body was destroyed because he had the ring to anchor him to the world. Balrogs had no such anchor to bring them back, so when the physical bodies they bound themselves to were stabbed, smashed, or somehow killed, then their spirits die.

Apparantly Melkor becomes a little too attached to his physical incarnation and is open to being killed. Plus, remember that Gurthang was a magic sword (it actually talked once, so it has some sort of extra spiritual power), and it was said at its forging that nothing it bit could live. That would include Melkor.

[ January 06, 2003: Message edited by: the phantom ]

[Mandos]

Balrogs were lesser Ainur than the Valar, they were Miaar (so not as powerful ). Also, Gandalf's sword, Glamdring, was "magical" too, why not it?

[the witch king]

but shurely melkors spirit could remain impotant but still there?

[Legolas]

Gandalf's sword was not "magical" but balrogs were evil spirits. Such evil spirits were tied to their physical incarnations. This is why Melkor was wounded by Fingolfin, why Glorfindel, Ecthelion, and Gandalf were able to kill their balrogs, why Elendil/Gil-galad were able to kill Sauron, why Saruman died the way he did, etc., etc.

Also, you guys skipped over the part where it says that Morgoth, in doing so many things, had spread himself too thin, thus weakening his central being by putting part of himself into each of his evil projects.

[ January 11, 2003: Message edited by: Legalos ]

[the phantom]

Actually, Mandos, a Maia (eg balrog) is not necessarily less powerful than one of the Valar. Valar and Maia were not titles designating power, just jobs.
(there's a great thead in the books called Ealur and Incarnation if you want more explanation)