Valar Children??

[Durregiel]

Sorry if this is a really dumb question, but i was reading the sil the other day and realised that Tolkien did not say anything about the Valar having kids. I didn't think they did but just wondering if any body out there could tell me what a dumbarse i am for even putting up this question....and that the Valar didnt have any children.. smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Niphredil Baggins]

The Valar were a bit like angels to Tolkien, and can you imagine angels having children? smilies/wink.gif

[Elven-Maiden]

I agree, the Valar don't have any real children. Their creations, like water, trees, and mountains are their children. They look after them and love them. Aule, the one who made the dwarves, was the closest one who came to having any real children.

[Inziladun]

Melian the Maia, a member of the same order as the Valar (though of much less power than they) took a corporeal form and had a child. I don't see why the Powers could not have done the same if they'd wanted. However, this would have been out of line with their purposes , which were to prepare the World for the coming of Elves and Men and then govern it to the design of Ilúvatar.

[Durregiel]

Thanks ,just what i thought. Thank you to all those who replied. smilies/smile.gif smilies/smile.gif

[Silmarien]

I was looking through some old threads and found this question. I half remeber reading somewhere that Melian gave birth to Luthien in elvish form or something.

Also the Dwarves were Aule's children weren't they, but not Yavanna's. Maybe one reason she was so annoyed was cause he had children on his own without her. smilies/biggrin.gif

Is it possible that some Valar or Maiar had children who where just lesser maiar or something. Then again before the elves and men came along they probably didn't know about reproduction.

Anyway bringing this thread to the top for others to read and hopefully to spark some debate.

[Noxomanus]

In Tolkiens earlier writings several of the Valar had children,some of these children were abondoned and others were changed in later writings. For example,at first Eonwë and Ilmarë were the children of Manwë and Varda,but in later writings they were transformed into Maiar of those two Valar.

[Finwe]

I think originally they were just a superior race to the Elves in Tolkien's mind, but later on, as the legendarium evolved, they became a higher, purer race, and higher, purer races don't usually have kids. That was when their "children" were turned into their Maiar.

[Novberaid]

Elven Maiden hit it exactly right as I recall
in reading the Silmarillion. Aule made the
dwarves, but I do not recall any others
making other races. They were in the world
to make it ready for the Children of Iluvatar, according the Music they heard.

[Cleansed Curunir]

In the Book of Lost Tales I, it was proposed that Orome was son of Aule and Yavanna, and Eonwe was son of Manwe and Varda. I think their was another one.

When Tolkien wrote The Silm, Orome was turned into another Vala and Eonwe a Maia, a herald of the Vala.

[Dancing_Hobbit]

maybe i just have a strange view of things, but i don't see why a higher race should be above having children. i'm not particularly religeous, but i don't see a problem with angels (which someone compared the Valar to) having children either. it makes sense to me that even Valar would have kids, especially if they are in any way based on or inspired by Greek mythology (which would seem likely). after all, the Greek gods had an awful lot of children! admittedly they weren't as pure as the Valar were, they were just humans with extra powers, but as i say, i don't see how being of a higher race should prevent children.

[Noxomanus]

I don't see an objection in this either......but Tolkien probably did!

[Inderjit Sanghera]

The idea of Valinorean pro-creation is evident in the writings of the prose versions of the Silmarillion, and for example, Eonwe, is reffered to as 'Fionwe' son of Manwe in the BoLT's Quenta's of HoME 4 and 5, but the idea of the Vala having children was dropped the First Phase of the Later Quenta Silmarillion and we then hear that the Valar could not have children, in other essays, such as 'Osanwe-Kewnta' (Which was suprisngly unpublished, due to I think matter of space, as C.T tells us at the start of 'Quendi and Eldar')

'The great Valar do not do these things: they beget not, neither do they eat and drink, save at the high asari, in token of their lordship and indwelling of Arda, and for the blessing of the sustenance of the Children.

[Dancing_Hobbit]

not eating or drinking would not be fun! but then, i can see the problem with eating your own creations... poor Valar!