About the map of Middle-Earth

[Galdor]

On the map of Middle-Earth, the left end of the map ends with the Sea, but the right end of it ends with land. If M-E is a globe, how could that work? Does the Sea end abrubtly and land start from the end of it?

[Gayahithwen]

I would guess that the map is not of the whole ME, but just from the parts needed to know anything about. That is only a guess, and if anyone else have a better explaination, I'm willing to listen to them.

[Elven-Maiden]

On my map, which sounds like the one you're describing, it's called "The West of Middle Earth". I assume that there's more beyond the map that wasn't necessary in the book.

[Starbreeze]

Originally posted by Gayahithwen:
<STRONG>I would guess that the map is not of the whole ME, but just from the parts needed to know anything about.</STRONG>

Well, thats what I thought anyways. I pondered about this for some time before deciding that I couldn't be bothered to find out any more. smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Kuruharan]

[yet another shameless plugs for one of my favorite Middle earth books, I oughta start charging Fonstad advertising fees.]

The Atlas of Middle Earth by Karen Fonstad has just about everything that you could want to know about the geography of Middle Earth.
Yes, the maps in the book are only of parts of the world. The landmass went much, much farther to the east and south than we ever see. There are also other continents and so forth across the seas. smilies/smile.gif

[Belsirithil]

Crud... My post just got deleted because the "network is busy"! So I'll make it simple... Middle-earth is Middle-earth. If the elves sailed over the sea to leave Middle-earth forever, they did not return to some other part of Middle-earth!

[Elven-Maiden]

Originally posted by Belsirithil:
<STRONG>Crud... My post just got deleted because the "network is busy"! So I'll make it simple... Middle-earth is Middle-earth. If the elves sailed over the sea to leave Middle-earth forever, they did not return to some other part of Middle-earth!</STRONG>

Oh, please expand on that! I'd love to know what you wanted to write! It sounds thought-provoking and imaginative! smilies/smile.gif

[Belsirithil]

Well, there isn't much more to say... Why did Tolkien name Middle-earth "Middle-earth"? It must be because it is the main part of the earth, though not necessarily the only part. Middle-earth is not the whole globe. Tolkien did not say that the Elves sailed across the sea forever just to end up on the other side of Middle-earth or something. They sailed to another continent. If you read The Silmarillion, it says that practically all except Ulmo and Melkor and his minions left Middle-earth at one point. Ulmo (the sea), you see, was between them and Middle-earth.

[Bruce MacCulloch]

The term "Middle Earth" is the term used in Germanic mytholgy for the earth.

[Belsirithil]

Well, I seriously doubt that Tolkien was referring to that, for Middle-earth is obviously not the only place on earth!

[Bruce MacCulloch]

Well, I seriously doubt that Tolkien was referring to that Actually, Professor Tolkien said himself that he was referring to this. 'Middle-earth', by the way, is not a name of a never-never land without relation to the world we live in (like the Mercury of Eddison). It is just a use of Middle English middel-erde (or erthe), altered from Old English Middangeard: the name for the inhabited lands of Men 'between the seas'. Letters, no 165

Middangeard is the Old English equivalent of the Midgard of Wagner and the Eddas.

[ February 24, 2002: Message edited by: Bruce MacCulloch ]

[Belsirithil]

Well, then I personally find his writings to be scrambled, or crooked rather, if what you say is true. No offense to them, though; I enjoyed them much.

[Snowdog]

I have to give another shameless plug for the Atlas of Middle Earth myself, So I am echoing what Kuruharan said.

[Duncariel]

When the Elves "sailed off into the West" they were returning to Aman, the Undying Lands, which are west of Middle Earth. Kind of amazing how that works, ain't it? Tolkien's ME was connected to Aman by the Helcaraxe ( The Grinding Ice ) that the rest of the Noldor crossed when Feanor burned the ships of the Teleri after crossing from Aman. Numenor lay between them.

Tolkien never says whether there are any lands on the other side of the world, that I know of.

[Marroc Underhill]

I have an Atlas of Middle-Earth and east
there is the Inland Sea of Helcar and past that is Hildorien and east of that is the East Sea, and there is a land past that is a land with mountains called the Walls of the
Sun. South-East of Middle-Earth is Dark Land
or South Land. South of Middle-Earth is Hitcher Lands with the Grey Mountains.
West of Middle-Earth is Aman.
I do hope I helped.

Droggo Underhill

[Manwe Sulimo]

The map shows just a small part of the continent of Middle-earth. In parts of Book V there are numerous descriptions of "Easterlings", people who came from beyond Mordor. Haradwaith is referred to as "the land where the stars are strange", meaning the southern hemisphere of Arda. The equator is probably somewhere in South Gondor. Gimli also calls Moria "one of the wonders of the northern world", which again shows the small scale of the map of northwestern Middle-earth.

There are maps of the whole of Arda, in some of the HoMe books (I'm not sure which, but I think IV has the most). While not published (and therefore not canon), they are JRRT's most complete maps that CRRT has found. I think they are the ones that Marroc Underhill was referring to.

EDIT: There's a good map at the Encyclopedia of Arda (http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm?http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/intro.html), under the entry "Arda".

[ June 29, 2003: Message edited by: Manwe Sulimo ]

[Meneltarmacil]

Actually, the equator (in this case, it's called the "Girdle of Arda") is much farther south than that. I happen to have an Atlas of Middle Earth, so I can tell you that there is more stuff to the east and south. If you look at the Sea of Rhun, there is a river running into it on one side, but where there should be a river on the eastern side, there's nothing. In The Atlas, there is a river going through there that starts in the Orocarni, which is another mountain range that's slightly longer than the Misty Mountains. In the southern part of the Orocarni, there is a forest called the Wild Wood and another river running south toward the Inner Seas. East of the Orocarni, there is a coastal plain with rivers running toward the East Sea. To the south, there are the Grey Mountains along the coast going south from Umbar. There is a river going east to the Inner Seas and a lot of forests which I take to be jungles in the south. There is also a continent in the southeast called the Dark Land which seems to be covered in jungle and in the far east there is a place that looks a whole lot like a mirror image of Valinor.

[piosenniel]

Look
HERE (http://lotrmaps.middle-earth.us/maps/r3t_M90.jpg).

[ July 05, 2003: Message edited by: piosenniel ]

[Aragost]

HoME # IV does have the most maps of Arda