what if Sam had kept the ring?!!!!!

[Morgul Queen]

If Sam had kept the ring what would happen?
Mordor would be turned into a giant potato patch. smilies/biggrin.gif

[Alaggaeriel]

Ummmmm... He would force everyone to plant a garden and give him seeds and cuttings for a tax??? How evil that would be! smilies/wink.gif And we all thought Sauron was evil! smilies/wink.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

[Arwen Imladris]

I think that he would have just lain down by the side of the road before he got to the mountain. Remember Frodo? He would have just given out without Sam. I don't think that Sam is really that much stronger then Frodo. Most likely Sauron would have gotten the ring back, unless Sam got some help.

[Tigerlily Gamgee]

I think that he may have made it. After all, Frodo had had the ring for much longer and Sam had just gotten it. Even though it's stronger in Morder I still think that Sam would've given it every fiber of his being...

[Donisile Of Mirkwood]

I think Sam would have got to Mount Doom and i think he would have had the mental strength to throw it in.

[Merry Brandybuck]

Interesting question. Giant potato path? smilies/eek.gif

Seriously, I think Sam would have either died in the attempt, or tried to use the Ring and have been overwhelmed by it's power. Frodo needed Sam and Sam needed Frodo. Neither of them could have done it alone. For me, that was one of the main messages of the book.
Both of those hobbits had a special kind of grace about them, but they both would hav e failed if they hadn't the support of someone they loved.

[Merry Brandybuck]

Interesting question. Giant potato path? smilies/eek.gif

Seriously, I think Sam would have either died in the attempt, or tried to use the Ring and have been overwhelmed by it's power. Frodo needed Sam and Sam needed Frodo. Neither of them could have done it alone. For me, that was one of the main messages of the book.
Both of those hobbits had a special kind of grace about them, but they both would hav e failed if they hadn't the support of someone they loved.

[Aramacil]

I don't think Sam could have used the ring better then Frodo, because in the end Frodo was so tired from keeping the ring under his command, so Sam looked stronger, but I don't think he was.

P.S. (I don't think Sauron would have liked the potato patch smilies/smile.gif )

[akwhaman]

it'll be Lord of the Rings all over again!!

[Morgul Queen]

Makes you feel sorry for Gollum though doesn't it what would Sam do to him for betraying frodo*shudder*
remember how angry Sam got when he thought Faramir was threatening Frodo *sigh* poor Smeagol.

[Lindolirian]

He'd be seen pretty quick and cowed before he could give a shout.

[Morgul Queen]

Truly i dont think Sam could have made it to Orodruin alone Frodo barely made it and he was helped by Merry, Pippin and Sam(The Shire to Rivendell),the fellowship(from Rivendell to the Brown lands),Sam and Gollum(in Mordor and the Brown lands).
PS i really didnt need all those footnotes did I!

[alkquareiel02]

Sam with the ring, hmm he would be the worst tyrant gardener that ever lived, people would be forced into hard labour to grow the biggest veg ever! smilies/biggrin.gif

[Taure Leafsilver]

If Sam had to take the ring alone he would most likely throw HIMSELF in the mountain with the ring. He'd be to upset to go one living without Frodo.

[Meela]

i like the compulsory gardening ideas smilies/smile.gif

no more meat... giant flower houses... bill n' ben style clothes and hats... eating meals with trowels and forks...

sounds quite fun actually smilies/biggrin.gif

[Rose Cotton]

I know as a fact that Sam would have made it to the mountain and back.

Why?

Because Sam did everything for Frodo. He would have made it for Frodo. Everytime he was about to give up he would think of how Frodo would want him to complete the quest.

He also promised the uncontious Frodo that he would come back for him. Sam was not about to break a promise to his master. He would have gone all the way and back to Frodo.

[kaleidoscope]

I think Sam would have made it to Orodruin but would fail to throw the ring in. Frodo couldn't throw the ring in by himself, he needed Gollum. Since Sam would have killed Gollum earlier, he would not be able to throw the ring in. Sauron would eventually get the ring back and take over the world smilies/evil.gif

[Morgul Queen]

No, I agree with Rose Cotton, I think Sam would have made it for Frodo, or, if failing that he would have done it for the Shire and to stop the Gaffer being thrown out of Bagshot Row(Sharkeys end, heehee)!!!!!!!!!

[Mintyztwin]

Interesting question! My first impulse is to say he wouldn't have made it. His character is different than Frodo, and he hadn't grown as much as Frodo had since the beginning of the quest. Frodo was the one who wanted to spare Gollum, while Sam didn't!

But I think it's a good point to say that he would have made it for Frodo. Very good point.

I guess I'll just have to say, I don't know!

[Túroch]

It all depends on when Sam took the ring. If he took it at Cirith Ungol I would have to say yes, Sam would of been able to make it Mt. Doom and back. If he had had the ring for as long as Frodo had I don't think he would of faired any better.

[Saskia]

lol! he would have tried to use it to plant farms everywhere and then it would have somehow gone horribly wrong!! nooo
but seriously, i agree with that last post that from the point where he'd taken it, he easily would have been able to take it to mt doom and back. maybe not if he had had it from the start. but i think sam is stronger than ppl think. his loyalty is so strong that if he had promised to someone that he'd throw the ring in the fire, he would not matter what.
oh yeah ps i'm new (:
-Saskia

[Alakhriveion TMA]

Sam would destroy the Ring. That's all there is to it. He proved more apt and strong of will than Frodo on Mt. Doom, and he might even have been a better ring-bearer, if it hadn't come to Frodo first.

OK, OK, my name is Sam, So I'm slightly biased.

[Alakhriveion TMA]

To Aramacil-
"looked" nothing. smilies/biggrin.gif

[Orual]

I'm inclined to agree with Rosie. Sam's good at keeping promises, and if he promised Frodo to come back for him, come back he would, come Mount Doom or high water. I don't think it would've been easy by any means for him, but I think that in the end he would've gotten rid of the Ring and come back for Frodo. He wasn't very tempted by the Ring--there was that one moment in RotK, but that was quickly gotten rid of by his good, plain ol' Hobbit sense. (Heaven knows we need more of that!) I think that he could've thrown the Ring into the Cracks of Doom, if nobody had physically stopped him.

~*~Orual~*~

[Airehiriel]

It is my impression that Sam would have taken the ring all the way to the Cracks of Mt. Doom, and that he would have accomplished what Frodo could not. The one thing that amazed me most was that Sam handed the ring back to Frodo with no apparent fight. I think Sam was so preoccupied with Frodo and every thing and one back in the Shire that it would have allowed him to conquer.
Either that, or he would have died trying, which really would have been a bad thing.

[Orual]

First off, let me be the first to welcome you to the Downs, Airehiriel! Enjoy being dead!

The one thing that amazed me most was that Sam handed the ring back to Frodo with no apparent fight.

That impressed me about Sam, as well. His only hesitation came from his concern for Frodo's well-being, not wanting to burden him with the Ring again. It took a lot of purity of heart and, of course, good old-fashioned Hobbit sense to fight off so successfully the temptation of the Ring. He had enough sense to recognize the tricks of the Ring, and to realize that everything it had him imagining was fake. /sigh/ My Sam.

~*~Orual~*~

[Airehiriel]

Thank you,Orual! It is nice to be welcomed. So, have I found a fellow Sam devotee? smilies/biggrin.gif I tell everyone Sam is my favorite because of this exact topic, but most of the people I tell haven't read the book, so I can't give the ending away!!! smilies/frown.gif It is so frustrating sometimes. Hopefully I can learn my way around here and settle in. Again, thank you!

[Uruviel, Lady of Lorien]

yeh i think sam is more of a hero than Frodo

[The Shadow In The East]

why did frodo leave sam behind i would have smuggled him onto the ship! after all sam did for frodo he just left him behind!

[Orual]

No worries, Airehiriel! There are plenty of Sam devotees to be found. And yes, I do happen to be one of them. ^_^ I love hobbits, and above all Sam. His loyalty, dedication, devotion, and love for Frodo touched me in a way that no other character in any other book had been able to.

why did frodo leave sam behind i would have smuggled him onto the ship! after all sam did for frodo he just left him behind!

Well, Shadow, I have to disagree with you there. Frodo didn't "smuggle" Sam aboard because Sam still had responsibilities in the Shire, and, as Bilbo said of Frodo in the movie, Sam was still in love with the Shire. They had saved the Shire, but Frodo had been too wounded by the Ring to be able to live in comfort anywhere in Middle-earth ever again. Sam was a different story. The quest had, of course, changed him greatly, but not in the same way that it changed Frodo. Besides, Sam had Rosie, Elanor, and twelve other children to come. He was the Mayor, and had the responsibilities thereof. So, despite the fact that in all likelihood any plot to smuggle Sam to the West would've been found out, Sam still had things to live for in the Shire. And besides, eventually Sam followed Frodo, after Rosie's death. So in the end, it turned out as happily ever after as it could, though I won't deny that I cried for hours after I finished Return of the King.

~*~Orual~*~

[EAM]

Personally, I think that Sam would have thrown it into the mountain...except I bet Gollum would've followed HIM and fallen in THAT way. So Sam would've had his revenge AND the job would be done.
I bet he would've felt awful, though, when he learned that Frodo was still living!
I don't think Sam would've made Mordor a 'giant potato patch', actually. smilies/wink.gif

[Luthien_ Tinuviel]

I agree with Orual and Rose, Sam would have made it for Frodo if not for other reason too. smilies/smile.gif I'm another Sam devotee smilies/biggrin.gif . As a side note, Orual , did you get your name from "Till We Have Faces"?

[Luthien_ Tinuviel]

Sam devotees unite! smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/wink.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

[Till Hardbottle]

I'd have to agree with everyone who said he'd make it because of his love and devotion to Frodo. 'Good-bye, master, my dear! Forgive your Sam. He'll come back to this spot when the job's done - if he manages it. And he'll not leave you again ... And if the lady could hear me and give me one wish, I would wish to come back and finde you again. Goodbye!' And even if Frodo didn't give Sam the strength to do it, he would be able to make it much easier than Frodo because the ring had no hold over him yet, he would only need food and water for himself, and the purity of his heart would urge him on.

[Sleeping Beauty]

If Sam has kept the ring, I agree with Rose Cotton, he would have done all he could to keep his promise to Frodo, that cannot be denied. But stout-hearted as Sam is, not even he could have stood under the power of the ring. It would have crept into his heart and mind and would have played the same games and tricks as it had all other ring-bearers. Yes, even Sam would have fallen. It might have not had such a hold on him as it had Frodo, Bilbo, and the like but he still would have been tempted. He may have in the end been tempted worst of all. The ring would have completely worked him over, trying to get back to it's Master, since Sam was already in Mordor. It probably would have broken him in the end, so I think it best that he never had to be tested. I like my Sam as he is: sweet, innocent, and loving.

[ElberethVarda]

I can't make up my mind! I'm a Sam fan myself. I think that he would have tried his very best to throw the Ring away, for the love of Frodo. But, would his best have been enough? I think he needed Frodo as much as Frodo needed him and neither could do well w/o the other.

[Child of the 7th Age]

There is no one in Lord of the Rings more devoted and loyal than Sam. However, even he could not have destroyed the Ring.

Tolkien is absolutely clear on this point in his Letters. He stated that no being within Arda could have escaped the corruption of the Ring. He blankly stated that Frodo was given an impossible task, one that no one would have been able to accomplish.

I can imagine the Ring working on Sam's mind, taking positive attitudes and turning them inside out. I can almost hear it whispering to him: Sam, go on and put it on. What harm can come of using it? You can make life much more comfortable for Mr. Frodo who has been so deeply hurt. Just use it to ease his pain.

Gandalf understood that someone could take up the Ring meaning to do good, and that it would corrupt all those good intentions. Sam's situation would have been no different.

Child

[ September 19, 2003: Message edited by: Child of the 7th Age ]

[SamwiseGamgee]

Sam would have made it. look at the facts. Sam was the only hobbit to resist the magical powers of the Old Forest and after the incident w/Shelob Sam had The Ring and was essentially unharmed, his loyalty to Frodo apparently shielding him from it's evil influence. Sam is just as strong as Aragorn, Frodo or Gandalf in the books, only he is sometimes underrated because he's an everyman's man. Don't amke the same mistake, kids!

[Mooncalf]

The only thing that really kept Sam going throughout Mordor was the knowledge that he had to take care of Frodo. Without Frodo, he would have been utterly lost. So no, I don't think he would have made it. He wouldn't have had anything to cling to.

Sam was the Perfect Sidekick. I think he knew his role. smilies/smile.gif

[Elladan and Elrohir]

Tolkien is absolutely clear on this point in his Letters. He stated that no being within Arda could have escaped the corruption of the Ring. He blankly stated that Frodo was given an impossible task, one that no one would have been able to accomplish.

Actually, that's not quite right. The Ring had no power over Tom Bombadil.

[samrohan]

Rose Cotton as the Black Queen!!

No, Sam would have had the strength to get rid of the ring because it would not have been in his possession for long enough to control him.

[ArathorofBarahir]

I don't think that Sam would have kept the Ring, he just doesn't have that in him. He just doesn't want power, he likes things the way they are.

[yavanna II]

smilies/rolleyes.gif i think Sam would have returned to Lorien or Rivendell, or maybe bear the Ring and use it for his own. He'll force everybody into gardening, turn Middle-Earth into a giant vegtable garden or summon all Elves of Valinor back to Middle-Earth just to please himself smilies/tongue.gif also he would kill all of Ungoliant's descendants smilies/evil.gif cos he's so angry with Shelob... smilies/cool.gif smilies/tongue.gif smilies/wink.gif smilies/biggrin.gif null null

[Leona]

Okay, I have to say that I don't think Sam could have done it, like child of the 7th age said, anyone would be corrupted. The ring would have worked all the harder to return to it's master once it was in Mordor. And I wonder if Sam could have really left Frodo for so long. Sam is protective of Frodo, and that is where he gets all of his strenght once the fellowship is broken. True the ring did not affect Tom, but as Gandalf, or somebody, said in the counsil of Elrond, Tom would't have come to the counsil if they had asked him, so I doubt he would have gone to Mordor to destroy the ring.

As to what would have happened if Sam had kept the ring, quite frankly, I think Sauron would have had the ring by dawn, and Middle Earth would have been lost. I'm not saying Sam is weak, but Frodo, was a better ring bearer,in the fact that he understood the huge importance and the responsibility so much better than Sam. Sam still believed in a way, that the ring was just a piece of metal, and the "powers" were all just exagurated.

[Eggy]

But would not sam's ignorance have been a great strengh to him, for if he didnt believe in the magic of the ring then mabey he would have been able to withstand the powers of the ring better

[Eurytus]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tolkien is absolutely clear on this point in his Letters. He stated that no being within Arda could have escaped the corruption of the Ring. He blankly stated that Frodo was given an impossible task, one that no one would have been able to accomplish.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Actually, that's not quite right. The Ring had no power over Tom Bombadil.


Actually that is something we do not know. Tolkien’s point in his letters was not so much that no-one could resist the Ring. It was that absolutely no-one could have resisted the Ring at the Cracks of Doom where it’s influence was at its strongest.

We know that Bombadil’s power was pretty much total within the borders of the Old Forest but it is far less certain that it would have been so strong within Mordor and certainly not at the Crack of Doom.

[Lyta_Underhill]

Tolkien’s point in his letters was not so much that no-one could resist the Ring. It was that absolutely no-one could have resisted the Ring at the Cracks of Doom where it’s influence was at its strongest.
I've got to put in my vote of agreement here! In fact, having Sam alone at the Cracks of Doom, trying to complete the impossible task, would be a turn of events truly heartbreaking and pitiful to behold, for he would not have his Frodo with him, thus, this one desire would take hold of him irresistibly at Sammath Naur. I think he would claim the Ring in order to have Frodo back. He would fall prey to the one emptiness that could overmaster him--he desperately wants to save Frodo. That, to him, is MUCH more important than the Quest. It is serendipitous that he realized this early on and turned about to rescue Frodo on his own, rather than finding this truth inside himself alone on Mount Doom, laid bare to the wiles of the Ring. The question is, would Sam have killed Gollum before this point or not? If he didn't, then he might still be saved by a struggle with Gollum--or Gollum might have been more vehement against Sam, for he had already tried to kill him once. He could not bring himself to attack Frodo directly as he had Sam. I feel perhaps that Gollum would have tried to push Sam into the Fire.

I, for one, am glad I didn't have to witness the Ring overmastering Sam at the Cracks of Doom, for it would have happened, and it would have been truly sad, for his fall would come without Frodo, his hope would be lost. I couldn't bear to see that happen to Sam!

Cheers,
Lyta

[ArathorofBarahir]

I don't think Sam had it in him to keep the Ring. I mean he seems to have one of the purest hearts in the books, so I don't think he would have kept it.

[Eowyn:Lady of Rohan]

Let's see. If Sam had kept the ring, he would have thrown it into the fire of Mt. Doom. He already knew that it was the purpose to go with Frodo. If one failed the other would take over and destroy it. The temptation to keep the ring wasn't strong with Sam. He knew what would happen in the long run. Sam isn't the type to fail. He would have gone and cast the ring into the fire.

[Finwe]

Sam had the purest heart of the entire Fellowship, and I think that he would have made it to Mt. Doom and managed to get the Ring destroyed. Although, I'm not sure how he would have fared in that last fight with Gollum.

[Lyta_Underhill]

If only I could have my wish, my one wish,' he sighed, 'to go back and find him (Frodo)!'
--Samwise after he has left Frodo to pursue the Quest on his own at the Pass of Cirith Ungol

'They must understand that--Elrond and the Council, and the great Lords and Ladies with all their wisdom. Their plans have gone wrong. I can't be their Ringbearer. Not without Mr. Frodo.'
--Samwise as he made the decision to go back to Frodo a few minutes later.

I think these two small quotes from "The Choices of Master Samwise" illustrate his weakness and the desire the Ring would have played upon at the end. Sam did not place as much value on the Quest as he did on Frodo. The Ring would have played him cruelly at the end, I foresee, and I do not think he could have accomplished the quest alone, unless by some grace, such as Frodo was afforded at the end. That's my reasoning, anyway! Pure heart aside, Sam just doesn't have the insight and understanding to complete this particular quest. He might have made it to Mt. Doom, but I shudder to think of his possible fate at the Sammath Naur!

Cheers,
Lyta

[The Saucepan Man]

The point has been made many times on this and other threads, but it cannot be emphasised enough. NO ONE, standing on the edge of the Cracks of Doom with the Ring, could have resisted its Power. Not Sam. Not Merry or Pippin. Not Legolas or Gimli. Not Aragorn. Not even Galadriel or Gandalf. They would all have been driven to claim it, as Frodo did.

As I think is acknowledged somewhere in Tolkien's Letters, Frodo's Quest (to throw the Ring into the Fires of Mount Doom), was an impossible one. Gandalf's strategy, as I understand it, was to get the Ring to Mount Doom and trust in providence (Eru).

So Sam could never wilfully have destroyed the Ring, any more than Frodo was able to.

<font size=1 color=339966>[ 8:22 PM December 13, 2003: Message edited by: The Saucepan Man ]

[Lyta_Underhill]

NO ONE, standing on the edge of the Cracks of Doom with the Ring, could have resisted its Power.
Exactly, Saucepan Man! And if Samwise came there alone with the Ring, it would be a sad day indeed, unless he were afforded some grace of Eru as Frodo was. But Frodo's grace was borne of Frodo's previous goodness, pity, etc., a lesson that Samwise had not learned until Frodo's ordeal at the Sammath Naur taught it to him for good and all! Thus, it would have gone badly with Sam, and all I'm saying is I would have wept to have seen it. It would have been far worse than Frodo's plight IMO, for Samwise would suffer alone, not fully realizing his great fall, without Frodo, possibly without Gollum, without a companion save the Ring and the Eye of Sauron boring into him. I couldn't bear to witness it!

Cheers,
Lyta

[Eol Telemnar]

(Going back to original question)


He would make sauron put a farmer's suit on and plant potatoes smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/smile.gif smilies/smile.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

[Eol Telemnar]

(correcting my mistake) Then again, sauron has no physical form, so that's imposible. I'd say he would try and destroy it himself, or given up and give it back to Frodo.

[Novberaid]

Only to add. I for one am glad we did not have to find out. Sam was a terrific character and I would not have liked to have found out what the Ring may have done to him.

[Firefoot]

I have to agree with everyone who said that the ring would have overpowered Sam at Sammath Naur. It would have been a truly sad thing if Sam had been there alone and I do not think I would have liked the book much after that...so it's an awfully good thing that Frodo got the ring back. It would have gone ill for Sam.

[Elanor the Fair]

If Sam had kept the ring, he would have to have Froto to come along in order to cast the ring into the fire. But Sam would do it without having to have Gollum fight him. I can picture the two casting it in together. That is the only way that I can see the task being done if Sam was the ring barer.