LOTR banned!!!!! [Archive] - The Barrow-Downs Discussion Forum

Eruwen

09-10-2002, 07:28 PM

Well, address and name of my principle is not going to be given. Because, no offense Naz, but I can't get him in trouble that much. We have my mom and a couple other parents that are for it and hopefully will fight against it. And we have some teachers that are with us on this.

But my principle was the old administrator for Hiles Anderson College. {If anyone knows what that is.} If you don't, it is this VERY VERY strict college in some Eastern state of the US. We were scared when we heard he was coming. But yes, he is a little eccentric (sp?) on things like this.

And yes, I do go to a private school. But still, how dare they tell us we can't bring a book back to school!! It's against our rights. It's just fantasy. There is nothing wrong with it.

Oh, and last year, we were required to read The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis for English class. Think about this...if they are banning a book because it has a little bit of magic in it, then we have to ban that book too. And that's just gay.

But anyway, wow. I did not know so many people would respond this quick! Thanks for all of the interest. But is my school seriously the only place on earth that has done this? Cause I'm starting to feel a little weird about it. OMG. THis is Horrible!!

Oh, and Helen, very good idea. I might just try that. smilies/biggrin.gif

[ September 10, 2002: Message edited by: Eruwen ]

Lindolirian

09-10-2002, 07:34 PM

Hey now, don't hate people who don't know what they're talkin about. Educate your principle on what he's missing out on and maybe he'll understand better.

Lindolirian

09-10-2002, 07:36 PM

O and by the way, if he's worried about demons and evilness in LotR, but makes you read the Chronicles of Narnia, just remind him that it was Tolkien who first introduced the great Christian writer, C.S. Lewis, to Christianity.

Ithaeliel

09-10-2002, 07:40 PM

That's awful! Tell that teacher that if he read the books for himself, maybe he'd see a different perspective. Demonology! It's preposterous! Tolkien was a Catholic, for goodness sake! I've only heard of one way in which demonology could possibly TOUCH LotR, btu that has NOTHING to do with Tolkien's views.

DarkRose

09-10-2002, 07:50 PM

How HORRIBLE! I would just be furious if my school banned the LOTR books. I'd rebel, coming to school with LOTR merchandies bulging clearly and visibly from my book bag, purse, and clothes. I'd paint my cheeks with elvish symbols. I'd wave around one of the books and bruy my nose in it while walking around the halls, and when bumping into people, I'd scream 'NOBODY BUMPS INTO A DWARF!"
Heh, don't take this sitting down!

I guess you shouldn't be so foolhardy like me. smilies/evil.gif

My school has never done anything like that, except once, when the Lion King came out on video. They put on the tape for us, when we were in 2nd grade, to watch, and they banned the tape right after that because "the trauma of Simba losing his father was too horrid for the children to witness!"
smilies/rolleyes.gif

Joy

09-10-2002, 07:57 PM

I second Mark12_30's sentiment. The book "Finding God in Lord of the Rings" is a very helpful book to help him understand. Also, the Tolkien/Lewis connection might help to.

Brinniel

09-10-2002, 09:18 PM

I'm so sorry! That's a horrible thing for your principal to do! :( I couldn't imagine what it'd be like if my school banned LOTR considering that the students seem to like Tolkien's writing. I swear that last year at least one third of our school read his books. I believe that reading "The Hobbit" even became a school assignment for some students!

I don't blame you for being furious at your principal.

Morgul Queen

09-10-2002, 09:35 PM

OMG smilies/eek.gif i cant believe anyone could not like Tolkien let alone ban it thats just...
well i am appalled I think your principal has met my english teacher cause she banned me from bringing the LOTR in to her classroom and aparently the same goes for Tolkiens other works because when she banned LOTR I brought along: The Hobbit, The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales and so on.... smilies/eek.gif

Furry-footed Flatfoot the Hobbit

09-10-2002, 09:42 PM

OH NO!!! When I read your first Message and it didn't list where you where from, I figured this couldn't happen in a school in the US!!! But as I read further down, I found that it did happen here...How Sad!! And to think they had no problem with The Lion, the Witch, and the wardrobe. There are so many Christian values in LOTR...this principle should be tied to a chair and made to read the whole book! This reminds me of when they tried to ban The Wizard of OZ because there couldn't be a "good" witch, but that happened years ago..come on people get a grip, open your minds, and understand what you are reading! Hang in there and I hope your parents let that principle have it! It's wonderfull to have the parents stand up for ya smilies/smile.gif P.S. Does your school have a ban against Harry Potter too???

Nevfeniel

09-10-2002, 09:45 PM

Paint some signs and have a protest! You can march around in front of his office saying things like, "Demonology? How 'bout theology?" Yeah, I know, that's not too creative, but I'm working on it!

Child of the 7th Age

09-10-2002, 09:58 PM

Morgul Queen --

Did your teacher give a reason for her decision? And is your school public or private? It is upsetting to hear this from two posters in just a few hours. Has anyone else had this experience?

I used to work in book selection for a large public library system, and also served on the Library Assocation's committee on this. One main part of my job was answering complaints by the public about books. That wasn't a lot of fun!

There were some people who had genuine reservations about some materials, and really knew what they were talking about. Whether I agreed with them or not, I could respect their views. But, time and again, I'd talk to people who simply had never bothered to read the book themselves. They were afraid of something without really knowing what it was.

One of the things I discovered after the publication of the Harry Potter books was that some people who did not like those for theological reasons automatically assumed every fantasy book fell into that same category. And that's just not true.

I think some of the controversy over Tolkien may be spilling out from that which is really too bad. Whether you like Potter or not (I do, at least mildly), I think most of us would agree that there is a difference in style, magical elements, belief system of these two authors, and they shouldn't be equated.

Meanwhile, good luck to both of you. If you can get your parents involved, all the better. Sometimes sadly, schools will totally tune out their own students but will listen to the adults. This is especially true at private schools where parents pay the tuition! Let us know if you have any success.

sharon

Birdland

09-10-2002, 11:46 PM

Eruwen - You have been given some great suggestions on how to present a thoughtful, reasonable rebuttal to your principal's ban of Tolkien's master work.

The suggestion to supply him with a copy of "Finding God In Lord of the Rings" was excellent (Here's the Amazon link for the book: Finding God In LoTR (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0842355715/qid%3D1031722447/sr%3D11-1/ref%3Dsr%5F11%5F1/002-4211180-8577654). Also pointing out that C.S. Lewis was not only a friend and contemporary of Tolkien, but that Tolkien also influenced his writings, would be a master stroke.

Fight ignorance with intellect! Oh, and a letter to the editor of your local paper might not hurt, either. smilies/biggrin.gif

Great timing for this, since September 21-28 is Banned Books Week (http://www.ala.org/bbooks/)!

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: Birdland ]

Rose Cotton

09-11-2002, 05:16 AM

Banned Books Week? I've never heard of that but it sounds great.

Banning Tolkien. Ugh, they don't have an English word to express my feelings.(well they do, but thier all unessasary on the Barrow Downs)

Just try sitting down with your principal. Tell him politley that you think he was wrong to ban Tolkien and give him good reasons why. Don't accuse him. Make it sound like his mistake is one anyone could make. smilies/rolleyes.gif (ya right)

Explain what the book is about and how it's views are good ones.
Show him "Finding God In Lord of the Rings"
Explain Tolkien's conection to C.S. Lewis and back it up with evidence.

If that fails then try petitioning.

Craban

09-11-2002, 11:16 AM

Does your school have a debate club or a newspaper or some other place where students can express their side of the story?

If not, go outside the school and write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper. Don't mention the principal's name, but describe respectfully what happened and why you think he's wrong. You can request to have your name withheld (but people will respect you and your perspective more if you don't). It might open up a productive dialogue for the whole community.

Cuthalion

09-11-2002, 11:47 AM

Heh, heh..good old Hiles Anderson strikes again...never thought ultra-conservativism would go quite THAT far! So sorry you and the others in your school are having to be subjected to such narrow-mindedness.

ElanorGamgee

09-11-2002, 12:31 PM

I find it rather amusing (in a sad sort of way) that your principal proceeded to ask if there were demons in the book and didn't know who Tolkien is. From this it seems to me that your principal is attacking fantasy books in general, along with anything else he doesn't approve of for whatever vague reason he gives. As a Christian, I cannot believe that another Christian would think Tolkien's books a result of the study of demons unless he had not actually read them. Whenever I read The Lord of the Rings, many, many Christian themes jump out at me. And, of course, there is the fact that Tolkien greatly influenced C.S. Lewis to turn to Christianity. I agree with the others who have suggested that you write a letter to the editor. You have my sympathy smilies/frown.gif

[ September 11, 2002: Message edited by: ElanorGamgee ]

Lilly Loamsdown

09-11-2002, 01:23 PM

Eruwen you have my pity.
And I agree with (most of) the sugestions that have been given for solutions.
But if the parents and teachers are behind you,and the principal wont listen to reason
a Petition eould definitly be the best bet.
If you send a letter to your laocal newspaper around the same time you may be able to gain the support of the public making it easier to get them to sign your petition.
I hope that whatever you choose to try works,
And I hope your principal comes to his senses soon.
<font color=pink>Lilly

InklingElf

09-11-2002, 04:21 PM

:;nods::I agree-you should get him a copy of Finding God in the Lord of the Rings!-Everything is in there!

Child of the 7th Age

09-11-2002, 04:30 PM

One more word of advice....whatever you do, be polite to him. (Frodo is actually a great model for this.) Too often, if a person feels their authority is being challenged, they will slam the door shut without listening to what you have to say. Ask respectfully, but don't be afraid to state your ideas.

Also, you will definitely want to try all roads within the school before you go outside to newspapers, etc. Once you go public, it inevitably turns into a dogfight. That's a final resort if all else fails.

sharon, the 7th age hobbit

red

09-11-2002, 04:48 PM

Though I completely agree that banning most books from schools is wrong, especially for the reason given above - suspected demonology, I can think of a good reason to ban them. Since I am not a high schooler, I don't know what the current fads are, but if the explosion of teenagers in this forum is any clue, LotR is one of them. Teachers should not have to put up with students reading during class when they are supposed to be listening. Though this is obviously not as horrible an offense as talking during class, smoking in the bathroom, or the like, it is still disrespectful to the teacher. If reading LotR during class has become a frequent occurrence in a school, they have good reason to ask students not to bring the books to school.

MYyyPreciousSS

09-11-2002, 05:16 PM

Thats just wrong. Books shouldn't be banned from school. I'd be like DarkRose and rebel! Wear my LOTR t-shirt, make some LOTR stickers and put them all over my clothes, put my action figures in my pockets, carry all the books, sit in the middle of the hall and start reading...I'd just go crazy and end up in lots of trouble. But of course, thats just me.

My mom's friend is like that though, she doesn't like anything to do with witchcraft and stuff like that. She only saw LOTR because Tolkien was Christian.
People like that bug me, but I guess its just the way the are and its what they believe in.

Marileangorifurnimaluim

09-11-2002, 05:33 PM

Eruwin, I do wish you would reconsider giving the name of the school and address. I wouldn't recommend posting them publicly in this forum (you'll see some of the responses here are a little.. er.. aggressive), but rather sending a PM to the BW. I think the likes of Gilthalion, one of our administrators who is a devout Christian and former politician, could write a very convincing and polite letter to your principal concerning the nature of the Lord of the Rings.

Well, on the other side of the spectrum, this summer I was discussing the Lord of the Rings with the director of Buddhist studies at Naropa University. He considered it to be a testimony to 'basic goodness.' 10 points for the Buddhists? smilies/wink.gif

-Maril

Lady_Galadriel

09-11-2002, 05:41 PM

I'm soo sorry.. That soooo stinks...

We should eat him, and leave his bones and skin hanging in a tree....
(or not...)

InklingElf

09-11-2002, 06:19 PM

No Galadriel we should not ::composes herself:: We should atleast consider him for his 'STUPIDITY'! who would have thougt? Even my principal isn't as dumb as that!

Ainahithiel of Mirkwood

09-11-2002, 07:10 PM

Fantasy, FANTASY?? You call the Lord of the books FANTASY??? WHAT THE HECK?? IT could have happened. Do not go judging somthing because it seems a bit far fetched. Look at Gaileo! He said the earth wasn't the center of the universe, and all those pig headed english people (no offense, but everyone was so odd back then in the middle ages and what not) sent him to jail!!! It should not be labled fantasy because no one had seen it happen. Are we such imbiciles that we cannot believe somthing because we have never seen it???????????

Daisy Sandybanks

09-11-2002, 07:15 PM

Well, I agree with mostly everyone here, but I really like what red said on the whole reading books in class is not a very appropriet thing to do, like he (or she, not really sure on that one...) said, it does disrupt the learning environment, but then again who am I to talk. Iv done it numerous times, heh. smilies/biggrin.gif

Morgul Queen

09-11-2002, 10:29 PM

Well i dont read them all the time just when im bored.......oh OK all the time then IM JOKING ijust carry them round all the time
and people dont take to kindly to my Tolkien fandom(Its childish, your at college now, you are too old to like something so babyish(it so obvious these people havent read the books isnt it)cant you like someone who has actually done something for mankind (Ignorants))and try to stop me reading them so i can read something else.
These people are the insane ones not ME!!!

Birdland

09-11-2002, 10:40 PM

I agree with Red that banning the books if they were a disruption in the classroom - geez, that last sentence sure sounded like an oxymoron - Reading anything in class while the the teacher is trying to do her job would be considered very rude. (OK, yeah, I used to do it, too.)

But it seems that the principal in Eruwen's school is banning the books because of content. It's one thing if he doen't want to list the book on the school's "official" reading list, but to tell students that they can't read the book on school property on their own time is just plain, wrong!

Tirned Tinnu

09-12-2002, 05:47 AM

Patience, patience, all of you! You must remember this person is in a private school. If the teacher found that all the students were reading LOTR instead of paying attention to their Geometry, I can completely agree with him.
Now on the other side of the coin, I read them at home, and waited for an English class that DID have Tolkien on the menu. smilies/smile.gif
Therein, I got an "A"...
I do hope no one was searched for the book. One might want to read it on the bus! In any case, I think that it should be left in your room, in a nice safe place, for the time being. I've had precious books taken by teachers that I had to resort to stealing back because they were not going to be returned...they lay in a locked drawer in my teacher's desk along with candy and yoyos.....typical.

[ September 12, 2002: Message edited by: Tirned Tinnu ]

orlandoandsaran

09-12-2002, 06:43 AM

Eruwen...that's really sad! How can they ban the students from bringing books?? It's a free country and everybody has their own rights!
Sigh...in my sch, I'm...I AM the ONLY one who is reading the LOTR for the 2nd time and everybody are like "You're still reading THAT?? Crazy kid."
My english teacher teaches my class like we're still in junior school and i bet she doesn't even know Tolkien...during a free period, i was reading the LOTR and she came up and said,"Hmm! Thick book. Good."
???!!???
Well,hope your principl (grrr) changes his view on Tolkien...just take the advice you were getting from the people up there!

smilies/tongue.gif smilies/tongue.gif smilies/biggrin.gif

Daisy Sandybanks

09-12-2002, 02:24 PM

Yes, well so far from what I have heard, there is not much as to what you can do about it now. I don't always read books in class, and if I do, it is usally at the begining or during break.
I guess you could have some sort of meeting with the Principle or Vice Principle and discuss you're opinions on why that particular book should be banned, and if that does not work, then you will just have to live with the situation and read your books at home.
Oh, and by the way, are there any other books that are banned from your school for the same content (Harry Potter and that sort...)?

Orome

09-12-2002, 04:15 PM

What i think you should do is get a beaten up copy of one of the books and bring it in, conspicuously. if he comfiscates it, you can have your parents complain, and junk like that, and if he doesn't have the guts to take it you have won. You could end up in trouble if you do this, but personally i don't think anyone will be stupid enough to keep a kid from reading. Just make sure you don't read when you are not supposed to, cause then you have no room to protest because they can just say you were reading at an innapropriate time.

good luck with it

Nevfeniel

09-12-2002, 04:21 PM

If worse comes to worse, you can always put a different dustcover on your book, provided it's a hardback.

InklingElf

09-12-2002, 06:47 PM

I have one comment -since observing everyone's reactions-tell me, where do you read your lotr books? when do you read them?

Eruwen

09-12-2002, 06:53 PM

Hey all. I havn't been able to get on in a while, so that is why I couldnt respond.

But anyway, to answer some questions.

Daisy Sandybanks-
Yes, Harry Potter is banned too. It is horrible the rules they put on us!

Ainahithiel-
Hate to tell you, but it is fantasy. I know, I know, it COULD be possible. But I doubt it. There are too many made up characters. So I consider it fantasy.

Orlandoandsaran-
I don't know how they can ban those books. It is against our rights. But they do it anyway.

InklingElf-
Well, this principal is new this year. I read my books last year. So I didn't get in trouble for it. But mostly I read them at home. A little at school, but mostly home. But let me say one thing...you better bet when I get my Unfinished Tales that I will be reading it at school. And if I get suspended for it, then bring it on! Cause it is our birthright as Americans!

Thanks for all of your responses. I will DEFINITLY take some thought in using them. You all helped very much.

InklingElf

09-12-2002, 07:13 PM

Alright I understand now

Neferchoirwen

09-12-2002, 08:59 PM

Well, it's obvious that the principal hasn't read any of the books yet. I don't blame him for that, though it's a fickle-minded move on his part.

"Demonology?" Man, I had the same thing rapped against me. A few friends "warned" me against reading HPotter. I read it, and found the circulated email against it to be quite fabricated, if you ask me. Still, a few other warned me about LotR, which is absurd. They've never read any of these books, and instead of feeling offended (I've been bitter out of pride, but that's all okay) I feel sorry for them because they've never had the privilege of entering Middle Earth.

And I just hope that your principal, Eruwen, would think about all of this. LotR is a GREAT literary masterpiece. A school that does not promote it to its students lacks in exposure to that magnificent brach of Literature called fantasy.

...And it's really awesome that your parents are ding something about it. I hope that your parents would come up with enough reason to "unban" Tolkien.

Good luck!

[ September 13, 2002: Message edited by: Neferchoirwen ]

Eruwen

09-13-2002, 07:48 PM

Thanks, Neferchoirwen. Me too. I really hope that he will give in once he reads some of the information I am going to give him. It was great to hear so many replies though. Everyone has hepled alot. smilies/smile.gif

Joy

09-13-2002, 08:11 PM

Eruwen, check out a thead over in books, it's on the first page, it is called Tolkien, Lewis and Relgion. This might help with the principal.

Eruwen

09-13-2002, 08:19 PM

thanks joy. I have looked at that already. But thanks for the help!

Manwe Sulimo

09-13-2002, 09:17 PM

Ways to get LotR back in school:

1) Go to an armory, buy a longsword, and carve the word "Andúril" on it in Elven script.
2) Get some mail (chain, not letters), a shield, a helm.
3) Have a friend carry the Standard of Arwen behind you.
4) Get a tall friend with a bow and some arrows, and a short friend with a battleaxe.
5) Walk to school through the woods (as to get dirty)
6) BURN THE SCH--

Uhh...sorry about that. Just...umm....right....

OOOHHH!!!!

Go out, buy a hundred/thousand copies of LotR, bring them to the school during the night, and put one on every desk.

-OR-

Leave school for somewhere more sensible.

Anywho....

(The above was the opinion of the author's evil alter-ego. The preceding in no way illustrates the author's opinion or what he might do next Thursday....)

I feel blessed by Eru (YES, ERU! Take THAT for demons, b-y-otch!) to go to a public school where they can't ban anything short of pornography (I mean, I'm reading Helter Skelter while my class is discussing Lord of the Flies).

Birdland

09-13-2002, 09:36 PM

I just have to wonder where all this vague fear of "demonology" has come from in our society. When I was young, (in the 50s and 60s), we were all taken to church on Sunday and learned our Bible lessons. Then our mothers would read us the Brother's Grimm, Hans Christian Anderson, and the like before bedtime.

At Halloween we got to dress like witches and ghosts, and the whole family would gather round the TV to watch "The Wizard of Oz" and "Peter Pan" at Christmas time. And I don't remember one family friend or relative fretting that we would be "corrupted" by any of these images. I was Protestant, but my friend, who was raised staunch Catholic, had a similar upbringing.

And why was this so? Because they were considered fairy tales! And while we didn't have the freedoms and rights that kids these days are awarded, we were at least assumed to understand the difference between real life and fantasy.

I think there are some adults out there who need to get a grip.

GreatWarg

09-13-2002, 10:10 PM

I don't think there will be need of any real cause of protesting openly against your principal. The suggestions made by a few intellectual people are indeed very well, as of Child's warning of sending a letter to the editor of a local newspaper. Your principal has no idea what values Tolkien has written inside his books, and therefore his ignorance is causing him to believe all fantasy books are the same. I would suggest against the idea of having Gilthalion writing a letter to your principal though. Your principal would not know who he is, or see any reason to even read the letter. There is not much that we can do because we do not live in your area or go to your school. But of the students in your school, petition or have each of them write a letter about what they say of the values of Tolkien. Needless to say, I am sad your school will not be able to enjoy Tolkien's writings without the principal criticizing what you read. You have the community of the Barrow-Downs with you all the way. And if you think you may want some help from us, I am sure a few of us would be willing to help in writing a large letter to your teacher from the Barrow-Downs community. We live for Tolkien!

Neferchoirwen

09-14-2002, 07:15 AM

I agree with Birdland. Though I was a kid in the eighties (being the eldest, I was spared by New Wave--no offense, though), I was also raised with the whole fairy tale package, not to mention all the movies and animation.

And with all that, I was never told that all of those weren't REAL. (Except for the fake blood in horror movies. My mom would swear it off as ketchup, while my dad would pretend that he's a scared five-year old) I guess both my parents believed in me enough as a kid to know that all that ain't real.

lindil

09-14-2002, 08:30 AM

Eruwen,IMO go w/ the soft-approach first [ private talk w/ the principal, 'Finding God...', etc. ] Then after that if it did not work I would raise a huge stink, maybe w/ a slogan likeChristian Author Banned in Private School or somesuch and I would write editorials, stage protests [ who knows you might get real lucky and thrown out smilies/wink.gif ]

To Red: I must say that despite the need to maintain a 'class decorum' If a teacher is being paid to stuff your mind w/ shall I we say, CRAP, is not self defense, in this case replacing the offending intrusion w/ something profitable the smart thing to do?

I feel modern education for the most part bites the big one and I recall & regard my many many re-readings of JRRT and Thoreau and John Crowley as lifesaver. My school [I graduated in 84] was purely and simply[w/ a few rare exceptions]about turning out compliant and unthinking cogs for this mindless juggernaut 'democracy' of ours [america]. I revolted in many ways, and I am glad, to not have done so would have probably reduced me to something I would despise. Say a Bill Gates [ w/out the $ of course] or a fork-tounged politician, or an iatrogenic 'Dr.' > I think you get my drift.

Anyway, I would draw a line in the sand if I was in Eruwen's position. Sure you are not going to get official sanction to read during math class. but no JRRT on Campus? during Lunch, on the bus? what will be next ? no Bible?

Sorry if I got carried away, but that is a very sore and touchy subject for me.

I really do feel young teenager's need to learn how to rebel 'responsibly'. It is a tough thing, as it goes against many grains in our nature, some of them natural. but question [ and pray] about everything!
If you do not develop a drive and will for truth when you are young, it is very hard to get later.It is so easy to be swept into the sea of american complacency and consumerism.

Oh and btw, i remembered I had to 'steal' a confiscated FotR back from a home-ec teacher [ out of her desk] thanks for the reminder! I had totally forgotten.

now if I could just remember that clothes folding and dish cleaning class....

Eruwen,
please keep us updated.

Eruwen

09-14-2002, 11:15 AM

I will keep everyone knowing what is going on. I was actually thinking about printing out a biography of Tolkien and putting it on his desk really early in the morning. Ya know, that way he could find out all of the truth about the writer, and not know who did it at the same time.

But I think I will go out and by that book "Finding God in the Lord of the Rings" and start reading it at school. Then maybe my principle will see it and look at it for himself.

Marileangorifurnimaluim

09-14-2002, 02:55 PM

Eruwen, I went to a private school myself, and know what they can be like: like small towns, only smaller.

Let me explain to the rest of the crowd.

Guys, the flag-waving stuff works in large public schools, not private schools for a reason.

a) In public school, there's an anonymity in numbers, you're just one face in the crowd. Every hour you deal with different teachers. Next quarter will be a different set, next year still others. What you do, your individuality, is lost in it. Not completely, but to a large degree. Good or bad.

b) There's an expectation of homogenous views, when a school differs from the norm there's already pressure from the PTA to bring it in line.

c) There's a boredom with normalcy, so that once you start causing trouble, you won't be alone. Even people who don't care about the issue will join you, just for the sheer joy of it. Often you'll start something and it will snowball, and someone else will take over championing it.

d) Ultimately the power over public schools is the State. Principals are removable, and both the Pricipals and the teachers know this. This makes it possible for teachers to join your dispute, or at least agree with it. It makes Principals amenable to at least the appearance of listening.

In a private school..

a) People know you. There's that close student-to-teacher ratio. For education and individuality this is good. But you have a long-term relationship with these people, and have to consider how what you say will effect them not just for this quarter, but next year and the year after that. You're not lost in the sea of faces, but everything you do, even subtle things, stand out in stark relief. And you have to live with it for the long haul.

c) Other kids are aware of this, and are less likely to jump on board a cause. In fact they tend to get ****ed off and irritated if you rock the boat.

b) Private schools pride themselves on being different, so aren't pushovers to public opinion. If they were the same as public schools, there would be no reason to send your children there. These schools are molded by the opinions and views of those who run them. And they're proud of it. Conservative schools tend to think of themselves as 'molding impressionable children' and are less likely to listen to their students than most places. Liberal private schools are the opposite.

Private schools are, however, as someone rightly pointed out, very vulnerable to the opinion of the paying parents. Especially right now in a spooky economy. But one set of paying parents has little influence.

d) The ultimate authority in most private schools is the Principal. Both the Principal and the Teachers are aware of this. This means teachers watch their fannies and won't join your fight, even if they personally agree you. They follow their leader with apparently cult-like devotion, and keep their quarrels with him amongst themselves. Principals do not feel any pressure to maintain even the appearance of listening. This gives a lot of flexibility too, though. If you convince him of something, the policy changes overnight, no questions.

What works then is direct, private, polite conversation. Sigh. Usually between the paying parents and the principal, not the kids.

So where does that leave you? Know your enemy. Eruwen likely knows who she's dealing with, her own influence, and her likelihood of changing the man's mind.

Eru, are you the only one concerned about the Lord of the Rings being banned? Anyone else interested in reading 'Finding God in the Lord of the Rings'? Any parents who might be concerned about this?

-Maril

Manwe Sulimo

09-14-2002, 04:00 PM

I say just continue to read it. He bothers you again about it, bring up your First Amendment rights (I'm pretty sure the "freedom of speech" applies to people listening, too). Anyone read Nothing But The Truth by Avi?

Eruwen

09-14-2002, 04:57 PM

Not many parents are interrested in fighting for this. But there are other ways. Like having some of the teachers discuss it in faculty meetings.

And Marileangorifurnimaluim, omg you explained it exactly. That is exactly how it is at my school. I am not the only one at school though. There are many students.

And Manwe, if I said that to MY principle, I would probably get suspended for three days plus demerits, and if I was ever caught reading the book again, I would probably get expelled. So, I'm not even going to try with the whole US rights thing. He wont listen. (Look at letter "b" in Maril's response. That will explain it all.

Alatariel

09-15-2002, 11:12 AM

My physics teacher gets uptight about LOTR, because I always have it with me in school. I don't actually read it in lessons, I just put it front cover-down on the desk, because there's not enough room for it in my bag (hey, it's a big book!). But every lesson he makes me put it on the floor - the floor! My precious book! On the dirty floor!
OK, I admit I am overreacting here just a tiny bit *shifty eyes*, but he's perfectly fine with any other book, and it's not like I've ever even attempted to read it in any of my lessons. I mean, what harm can a book face-down on a desk do?
I bet he would let me leave it there if it was a Bible smilies/mad.gif

Marileangorifurnimaluim

09-15-2002, 12:49 PM

Been there, been there Eruwen. Kids who go to public schools don't understand the rules are completely different in the tiny sub-culture of a private school.

You know who you're dealing with. Each private school is its own world.

If any of the faculty feel the LotR is more properly classified with the Narnia Chronicles, so much the better.

Sometimes these autocrats stubbornly stick to their guns even if they discover they were mistaken. Their feeling is "if I give in on this, what else will have to swallow? I'll lose my authority."

So it seems to me - from over here - that the less of a big deal you make of it, the more likely you won't back him into a corner where he has to say 'no' to save face.

Leave the decision with him.

I wouldn't attack his views on magic in general (heh - you know that!), but the LotR should be reclassified with C.S. Lewis's works. They are not directly allegorical, but they are spiritual in nature.

Perhaps privately and anonymously give him a copy of "Finding God in the Lord of the Rings."

Any copy of the "Screwtape Letters" by C.S. Lewis shows the dedication "To my friend, J.R.R. Tolkien." No kidding!

You are looking for a change of heart, not a victory in a battle of wills.

The fact that C.S. Lewis is accepted is wonderful. That's your "in." The Lord of the Rings is misclassified with the Harry Potter books, when it should be classified with C.S. Lewis' works.

I love Harry Potter, but for those who dislike witchcraft, it's on the side of the witches and wizards. In the LotR magic is dangerous, Frodo's main job is to destroy it and avoid the temptation to use it himself. You couldn't have a more different premise.

-Maril

Eruwen

09-15-2002, 12:56 PM

Very good idea Maril-

And you know, I think you are the only person I have ever talked to on here that actually understands what kind of stupid stuff I have to go through at my school.

Thanks for all of the help everyone!

Arathiriel

09-15-2002, 01:08 PM

Banning LOTR sounds just plain stupid to me!

smilies/tongue.gif smilies/tongue.gif smilies/tongue.gif

charly

09-15-2002, 01:53 PM

Gosh... poor you! It´s just horrid when people do that, plus it´s against human rights. (Freedom of speach) What´s he gonna ban next... a midsummers night dream? That sure has "demons" in it, but no, that´s classic literature... AARGH!
Luckily, we have pretty human teachers... exept for the one that told us all disney movies were evil... he was sort of a freak, but whatever.
Tolkien totally fascienates everyone, I even got my GRANDFATHER to read FotR, so there!
I really hope your mom&those folkes are gonna sort that out... tolkien rulz!!

Ainahithiel of Mirkwood

09-15-2002, 03:49 PM

Actually if it's a private school and a public building, they can ban things and it wouldn't be against your rights. Freedom of Speech has nothing to do with reading books. If it's a private school, they have more control over you than in a public school.

just telling you smilies/frown.gif

Joy

09-15-2002, 05:09 PM

Eruwen, I think that Maril has given you the best advice so far.

Have you ever heard of Randy Alcorn, he is a Christain writer. He has writen Deadline, Donminion and many others. One of his books "Edge of Eternity", which I loved, has in the acknoldgements a thank you note to CS Lewis, JRR Tolkien and to other writers. (PS. this book is rememicent of Lewis, Tolkien and John Bunyan's Pilgram's Progess).

Here is Alcorn's web site Eternal Perspectives Ministry - Alcorn's Bio (http://www.epm.org/rabio.html)

DaughterofVana

09-15-2002, 10:24 PM

I really wish I could say something that already hasn't been said, but it seems like you have universal support here at the Downs, so hopefully that will help a little (though I guess it's kind of preaching to the choir, that we would be as outraged as you... smilies/tongue.gif) That's just high school for you, regardless of the "private" or "public" prefix. We all had to go through it, in one way or another. Trust me, when you get to college, they won't be half as strict, not even three-fourths. smilies/smile.gif And if they are, at least you'll have more power in determining your fate. It sucks, but when you're under 18, it's hard as nails to pull any weight, at least in my understanding.

At least you have the support of the parents--unfortunately, I've found that they're the real people who have say in matters such as these. Maybe they'll have more say, since the education is private and paid for rather than under-funded and neglected (as it was in my high-school, public of course, and US besides! smilies/smile.gif ). I agree with the viewpoint on kids not having any say in private schools, but maybe the parents will have more luck, since they, at least partly, are supplying the principal's salary. smilies/smile.gif

Be sure to keep us posted on how it comes out!

-'Vana

Craban

09-16-2002, 11:42 AM

Gack, this is bringing back old memories! I'm deeply, deeply glad I went to public school (but it was in the Bible belt so some of the same things apply). Eruwen, what do your parents think? Are they behind you on this?

If nothing can be done, at least console yourself with the blessed knowledge that you'll be out of there in a few years and that you have the intelligence and spirit to mold your mind to *your own* specifications, not anyone else's. I heartily support intelligent rebellion, even when it only avails you on the inside, that's the important part. Petty tyrants have no claim on your heart. Keep reading!

OT and upthread - LINDIL?? You read John Crowley?? Hosanna, another one! I love his work so much and he is SO underrated. Just a shoutout and a thumbs-up.

Armadoin

09-17-2002, 10:11 AM

You are not alone, Eruwen. My 8th grade teacher banned anything Tolkien from our school too. We fought back though, and now you can have them in the school. I hope your situation turns out well in the end.

Eruwen

09-23-2002, 05:52 PM

OMG!!!! You will not believe what I saw in our SCHOOL library. It was the whole set of LOTR and 2 copies of the Hobbit. Can you believe it? I think I'm going to put an "anonymous" (sp?) note in my principles's box to let him know and look at it. Then possibly he will talk to our librarian about it.

Oh, this is so good. I just wanted to tell all of you. I'll keep you updated on the facts!

Aylwen Dreamsong

09-24-2002, 02:16 PM

his week is National Banned Books week. Or at least my language arts teacher says it is. She read a long list of the top 150 books that were considered for banning in the past 10 years. Lord of the Rings was I think somewhere in the thirties? But the number one book was one of the Harry Potter books. Another book was the giver, and a bunch of other books that people though promoted devilry and satanism... but what I don't get is, if the parents dont want their children reading it, why does it have to be banned from ALLLLLLLLLL kids???

Aylwen

Isilya

09-24-2002, 03:21 PM

I went to a private school (okay, so it was only for one year. No, I was not expelled), so I have an idea of your situation. If worse comes to worse, just explain that while he may disapprove of Tolkien's works, countless thousands of others enjoy them immensly. There is nothing wrong with reading the books, it's one of the countless ways that we express ourselves, and as long as we don't try to start the THIRD War of the Ring, I don't see any harm in reading them. If you have to do a book report on the latest book you've read, you can do it on The Sil, LOTR, or some other work by Tolkien, gently explaining the ideals and beliefs in the works, or held by Tolkien, though that might not be the greatest idea.

If that SOB still doesn't understand, Manwe, give the go-ahead smilies/wink.gif

Neferchoirwen

09-26-2002, 02:13 AM

Hey Aylwen...is banned book "The Giver" the one by Lois Lowry?

You will not believe what I saw in our SCHOOL library

I couldn't believe it either, Eruwen. Irony is everywhere. I'm wondering what your principal will do once he finds out. I can laugh at his discovery.

Isilya

09-26-2002, 04:43 AM

Ugh. The Giver is a creepy, creepy book.

Aylwen Dreamsong

09-26-2002, 05:58 AM

Yeah is was "the GIver". It was an ok book, I read it over the summer because I knew we had to read it sometime during the school year for Language arts. But I thought it was.....very strange... What shade of color did they see if they couldn't really see color?? Oh well, this is a lotr forum.....

LoL
Aylwen

Silivren-Niphredil

09-26-2002, 07:31 AM

Hey, I just wanted to be here for moral support, HOW ON EARTH COULD THEY CALL IT DEMONOLOGY! If you want to start a petition or something--COME TO MEH! I am outraged, full support, and judging from the replies, I guess everyone else feels the same! I say you should listen to what everyone else says--I feel so sorry for you, I mean, I take LotR to school everyday just to hug it during classes, however, I am a scary person...We're with you all the way!

Eruwen

09-26-2002, 06:16 PM

Well, I do have some bad news. Although it has been quite humorous reading your responses, I found out something else...

One of the goals of my new principle is to "clean out" all of the trash in our library. He is probably going to get rid of LOTR!!!! And for one thing, we have no trash in our library. I mean, it's not like we carry porno or anything. So, there goes those sets of books. smilies/frown.gif

Hmmm...maybe I can buy them from the school...

Nevfeniel

09-26-2002, 07:19 PM

I have an idea! Why stop at the banning of LotR? Why not ban The Chronicles of Narnia, The Wizard of Oz, and ANYTHING ELSE THAT FORCES THE READER TO USE HIS/HER IMAGINATIONS(which, I believe, is something that teachers are/should be trying to do)?!? Come on! At least people are reading; there are worse things that students could do during school (drugs, for example). I know this post doesn't actually help anyone; I'm just trying to make a point like everyone else.

Brinniel

09-27-2002, 07:23 PM

Here's an idea:

During the holiday season wrap a set of LOTR and give to the principal. Challenge him to read it.

If that doesn't work, just quote lines from the books in front of his face.

Alright, I know this would probably get you in trouble, but it was just a thought. :rolleyes:

Errrr. I know I probably said this before, but it just makes me so angry for someone to ban such beautiful books! :mad:

Aramacil

09-30-2002, 11:44 AM

I just found out that our school has a copy of all the LOTR-books smilies/biggrin.gif smilies/biggrin.gif my school rules, smilies/frown.gif actually it's the only positive point that my school has. smilies/frown.gif

Eruwen

11-23-2002, 07:47 PM

Aragorn186

11-23-2002, 07:59 PM

wow...oh well, all's well that ends well, I suppose! (And yes, your principle is stupid as most are)

Pookabunny

11-23-2002, 08:00 PM

Wow if they consider LOTR Demonology, then I guess Playboy and Penthouse are Health Sciences/Biology.

High School (private and public) sucks. Once you get to college, you'll find the people are so much more open-minded and cool when it comes to stuff like this. Especially the teachers! you may actually end up becoming friends with some of your college professors - I sure did. Amazing people.

The thing that stinks about High School is that the teachers are supposedly trying to help the students and ease them into a cultured, peaceful environment, but then they do some stupid nonesense like take BOOKS away from you. It's not like you're sitting in there reading porn. COME ON.

The worst? They'll take it without even giving you an explanation! That's just unacceptable.

Sorry to hear you had to go through this, but I can see you've got a LOT of passionate support from fellow Downers. I bet you'd get some level of support from the other people in your school and parents. I'd start with all the english/literature teachers and see what they'd say.

Tyler

11-24-2002, 01:30 PM

That makes me sick to hear that. Me 8th grade englihs taecher had us read the hobbit and FOTR, andi did a liteary critism over FOTR my junior year. What right does he have to say what you can read at school. He does have the right by law to say what can be taught which i dont think is right either. Even if it is demonolgy which its not you have the right to read it. I guess thay will have to take away Beowulf, Brave New World, and the works of Kafka. Sorry i just had to say that.

Eruwen

11-24-2002, 01:39 PM

Oh, I know, Tyler. It made me so mad when I heard that. It's a good thing my priniciple is ok with it now.

And by the way, welcome to the Downs!!! smilies/biggrin.gif

Neferchoirwen

11-26-2002, 09:28 PM

My principle, stupid as he is, thought the book my friend was reading was HARRY POTTER!!!! Lol!!!!!!
It turns out he has nothing against J.R.R. Tolkien at all. Lol. So everything is fine. We can read our books now, and we dont have to worry about anything. Isn't it funny after all this, it all turns out to be some stupid misunderstanding. But thanks to all of you who stuck up for me this whole time.

So the crusade is over! Yay!

Glad to hear more about this, Eruwen...Hope your principal is a better guy than he was...

Mae govannen to Tyler! (well met)

Maylin Talese

11-27-2002, 06:02 PM

THEY WON"T LET YOU BRING LotR TO SCHOOL!!!!!!!!! Is there no justace in the world???

That's just disgusting... how can you ban something if you don't know what it is? Do they allow Harry Potter? (shudders at the idea of not being allowed to read tolkien and tolkien related things)

If it were my school, I'd raise a petition...then again, I have a habit of being to out spoken for a 6th grader, I told some older kid on my bus to shut up, ( I had a headache and was tiring of hearing their voice) and my best friend gave me a look as if I were insane......

It isn't as bad at my school, they let us read what we want, but I wish someone would listen to our opinions once in a while... it's like you have no sense of reason until you are out of highschool. We have to write things down in our assisgnment notebooks, which makes sense, but then they quiz us over what we wrote down. I usually fail cuz i have big hand writing and thay write so much on the board. At least i can usually make up the F with other things...

Maylin Talese

11-27-2002, 06:04 PM

opss... i just read the post over mine, it aid that they figured out it was Harry Potter... okay.....sorry... smilies/biggrin.gif

Durelin

11-27-2002, 06:26 PM

I just don't understand that! You can tell that Tolkien was a religious man just by reading LOTR and stuff! The story of the Ainulindale sounds a lot like the creation story! Well, atleast it did to me! And references such as numbers and things, could definetly be connected. Wierd. Anyways, that is really sad cuz I go to a Catholic school and a woman that WORKS there is totally obsessed with LOTR. Her office is full of posters, a display, she makes her own LOTR t-shirts, she brings in magazines and her cards, and she got tickets for my friends and I to go to the uptown in D.C. to see TTT, is taking us and during school! And I thought my principal was mean not letting us have any out of uniform days! SAD! smilies/frown.gif I'M MAD NOW!!! smilies/mad.gif smilies/mad.gif

Durelin

11-27-2002, 06:29 PM

oops, didn't see the post either! Well, that is still mean! I love the HP books! Come on, those stories are all about morals, not about devil worshipping! That's bull! smilies/mad.gif STILL MAD! GRRRR....yet, relieved....

Shanna

11-27-2002, 06:50 PM

Oh god, don't even get me started on HP's so called "morals"...Like practicing wizardry is so moralesque, hey, I made up a word!

RiderOfRohan

11-27-2002, 07:58 PM

You have got to love it when the Barrow-Downs unites. smilies/biggrin.gif I go to a CATHOLIC chool and they encourage us to readLord of the Rings.
J.R.R. Tolkien has not only been voted the best author of the century (I'm not joking), his life has been the focus of many Catholic discussions, BECAUSE OF HOW GOOD A CATHOLIC HE WAS!!! I believe your principal needs to get an understanding of the world around, and an understanding of GREAT LITERATURE. smilies/mad.gif

-Imrahil-

11-27-2002, 08:06 PM

I love it. Ban Lot, the greatest fantasy classic of all time, and not ban kids from watching violent TV shows ect? Makes no sense.

Manwe Sulimo

11-27-2002, 08:36 PM

Probably be a lot nicer, a lot less violent, and a little saner smilies/smile.gif

Cúdae

11-28-2002, 07:44 PM

I am going to make everyone very angry at a school again...by telling you about mine!

I go to a private school in Massachusetts, U.S. This year the school officials banned all of Tolkien's works from school grounds. We are not even allowed to talk about anything Tolkien (a major problem for me since my first name was created by Tolkien and I had to shorten it to simply "Aran" or go by my middle name). Besides that, several things have been cut out of the English curriculum-- Beowulf and Romeo and Juliet among the casualties-- and all of the "dead" and "dying" language courses are being either destroyed or terribly cut back.

But the Tolkien ban is one of the worst. The school principle already issued a ban against J.K. Rowling, C.S. Lewis, Ray Bradbury, Marion Zimmer Bradley, T.H. Whiter and others, so it didn't come as a huge surprise. But it was awful for the first few days for the hardcore Tolkien fans. The library had to be searched head-to-toe and the art department's gallery was ransacked for anything remotely Tolkien inspired. This meant my painting of Maedhros had to go as well as my very un-Tolkien painting of the crescent moon.

FYI, I will not disclose the name of my school for reasons that are my own. So in other words, if you want to yell at them in person, you are going to have to do a lot of searching first.

Thanks for reading my little rant...

RiderOfRohan

11-29-2002, 06:15 AM

smilies/mad.gif smilies/eek.gif smilies/mad.gif smilies/eek.gif smilies/mad.gif smilies/eek.gif smilies/mad.gif How Dare They!!!!!! You need to do something about this. Sign a petition. Horde banned books in your dek. REBEL!!!!

Nevfeniel

01-11-2003, 11:17 PM

Okay, my friend just told me that the district is going to ban LotR, Harry Potter, and chess. I hope it's only a rumor, though.

Eruwen

01-12-2003, 12:53 PM

Chess? Why would they ban Chess? Is that so evil as well?

Nevfeniel

01-12-2003, 07:47 PM

It's because it was in Harry Potter. That was actually their grounds for getting rid of the chess club! Four parents called thinking chess and wizards chess were the same thing. smilies/rolleyes.gif Another reason was because people were gambling on it, which is also no grounds for banning. Anyone could bet on anything. I could bet on the outcome of a school football game, but I can promise you that they wouldn't ban that. Idiots.

[ January 12, 2003: Message edited by: Nevfeniel ]

Silmarien

01-13-2003, 12:22 AM

Morgul Queen I'm with you, LOTR babyish! I'd like to see an 8 year old who could totally understand it! I'm only 16 but then I probably don't understand it fully I also hope that school has been sorted out. If I continue I'll probably say something I'll regret.

[ January 13, 2003: Message edited by: Silmarien ]

Pherdacilion the Elf

01-31-2003, 04:35 PM

If you don't want to go to Amazon.com to buy the book "Finding God in The Lord of the Rings", there is an article found in Breakaway, a teen Christian guy's magazine, that was written by the co-author of this book. Check it out:
Here (http://www.family.org/teenguys/breakmag/features/a0018699.html)
God bless!

harlindon

02-01-2003, 02:33 AM

Ok, What is wrong with this generation(well the one ahead of me) They say that we aren't reading enough. They say we aren't reading anything worthwhile anymore. so when we find a set of books that we really like they ban it. Why, well I could see if peopel were bring books in and just sitting there reading in class toatally oblivious to the world that might make a few ppl mad. (heheh I did this, I was at a really cool part and I didn't want to wait.) I like Harry Potter also and my district was thinking about banning it. a lot of parents were complaning that there was demon worship in the books. Well if we are going to ban books with an evil charter in them that used supernatural powers, then why dont we get rid of all the movies too, right. Well that would mean buh bye to almost all of the Disney movies. Almost all cartoons, anything, and if we cant have an evil charater then we cant have a Christ like figure at all either, so all the books about religon would go all references to the Bible would also need to go, and taht is a lot almost every novel has that in it. so now I ask waht do we have left to read? Nothing, no master peices, nothing. That is what we would be left with, nothing. We would be a county or world with out knowledge, without a knowledge of what has shaped us as a country or world. We would never know the great authors, they all have these "taboo" subjects in them. My motto is go big or go home, and if you tryly wanted to ban books like LOTR or HP or anything elese you would, in return be banning all books,movies, and anything elese like that, and that is a scary though that there are people in this world who want that.

harlindon

02-01-2003, 02:44 AM

Oh yeah, and they want to ban LOTR because of the little children and the effect it might have on them. Well they why are there books on homosexuality and stuff like that in our libraies at school. I was in the Librart once and caught a buch of little inoccent kindergarderns looking at this book with picture about sex. I took it away from them (they were very graphic pictures) I look on the cover and saw that it was recomened for ages like 7-12 or something like that. It was soooo gross. ARGGGG! I just really makes me mad. well anyways i think im done for now.

(sorry bout all the mistakes in spelling and stuff when i get passonate bout something whao my mind changs and i cant stop.)
Adios!

MLD-Grounds-Keeper-Willie

02-03-2003, 09:37 PM

Check out this site (http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34&in=entertainment&cat=harry_potter).

Hmmm....maybe the Vatican will decide to read LotR and do the same.

Lathriel

03-01-2003, 11:09 PM

I always get angry when books are banned, Luckily my school doesn't ban any books. But why should they ban Harry Potter. People take it way too serious. It is a book for kids!And then they started talking about how black magic might be taken serious blah blah blah! Enough already,kids are reading isn't that what they want? smilies/mad.gif smilies/mad.gif smilies/mad.gif

Rynoah, the Overly-Happy

03-02-2003, 12:19 AM

Read in the other locked thread on this subject:

'Middle-earth is demonic, racist, sexist, contains homosexuality and beastiality and is evil'

I can understand most of those, but beastiality and evilness? Where do they get that?!

Banning books is retarded. There's nothing more I can say on the subject for fear that I will go on a twenty-page snarling rant that will put you all to sleep and make me only madder.

Airerûthiel

03-02-2003, 02:13 AM

My cousin's school banned Harry Potter because that allegedly promotes witchcraft (although having done some of the spells I can safely say they do not work), and my friend had Noughts And Crosses confiscated because it was 'too graphic' (read: it contains stuff that's actually relevant to modern-day teens).

Teachers are mean - just because they don't like your taste in literature that doesn't give them the right to tell you what to read!! Too right your mum should fight against it Eruwen!

Saying that, I'm not condoning reading books in class (although I do that all the time smilies/wink.gif) because it disrupts the learning environment and stops you paying attention in class - I still blame my reading ROTK in Biology class (although it was only at the beginning of class and I was sitting at the back) for my B on the modular test

TheHobbit

03-02-2003, 04:02 AM

This is insane! How can someone hate Tolkien!? smilies/mad.gif

gilraën

03-02-2003, 05:09 AM

It's not about hate, it's about fear, ignorance and power. It's the same mentality that was used by the Klu-Klux-Klan, Hitler, Spanish Inquisition and Extremists all over the world. If you don't understand a thing you ban it or destroy it. Sadly there is far too much of it about in our world, and banning books is one of the milder version of this. Basically its unconstituional to ban books, but not being american I can't remember which ammendment. For goodness sake you have the right to bear arms but not read books? Yeah right!

galadriel'smaiden

03-02-2003, 08:10 AM

Some schools are so 'politically correct' that they can't understand what is wrong and what is not. If a book was 'how to worship the devil in 10 ways' a school could and should bann it, but probobaly wouldn't because if could be considered religious! Some stupid schools even banned Harry Potter because of witchcraft and The Wind Singer for graphic descriptions. How I hate this one aspect of the United Sates- politically ccorrectism. smilies/mad.gif

NAri Brassbow

03-03-2003, 08:01 PM

FIGHT THE POWER

lets lynch him or in some way shape or form punish him for his blanent ignerence can we say castration. fight the oppressive forces that are against you. renagades forever

[ March 03, 2003: Message edited by: NAri Brassbow ]

[ March 03, 2003: Message edited by: NAri Brassbow ]

[ March 03, 2003: Message edited by: NAri Brassbow ]

Lhuntathrawen

03-03-2003, 08:14 PM

holy cow. this really gets me peeved. you definatly know that school systems are going down the tubes when they ban LorR. that's just wrong. i thought my school sucked for having uniforms. someone totaly has to stop this. its nuts. i don't get ****ed at much, but this really does it....grrr... smilies/mad.gif smilies/evil.gif

Lhuntathrawen

03-03-2003, 08:16 PM

hey, how come when i wrote P...I...S...S...E..D it put the little asterics after it?? wierdness. never thought that was a bad word...i'm not one for swearing either...o well smilies/rolleyes.gif

Quelledaewen

03-03-2003, 09:27 PM

A good friend of mine was kicked out of her parochial high school for reading LOTR's! It's so frustrating, but some people just don't get it. I see a lot of parallisms to the bible in LOTR's. I agree that "Finding God Through Lord of the Rings" is a very good book. It's equally frustrating to me when people try to compare LOTR's with Harry Potter! Like I said. . . some people just don't get it.

rintintinuviel

03-07-2003, 08:40 AM

I have heard this other places too. Its not so uncommon, its just dumb.

Aragost

03-07-2003, 04:27 PM

smilies/mad.gif smilies/mad.gif smilies/mad.gif I want to kill. Burn the Principls hair. Start underground tolkien clubs at your schools and then rise up from the shadows and rebel like your life depends on it( I would). Wear anything tolkien related, shirts, rings, etc. Bring your lunches and eat tolkien food. If they stop you go to infliction of wounds. if they try and take any tolkien thing from you defend it and your rights. Start rallys outside of your school. If you write for the school newspaper write an arcticle. If your pricipals take tolkien away email them this page. give me their email address and let me do it.

If you name is tolkien related and thay say you can not use it I would seriously fight anyone who stood in my way.

Finding god in LOTR is a good book but your Principals will not read it. so what if you get expelled. Just more time for you to plot and take Revenge!!!

Don't really hurt anybody if you value your education, but i'd hrt them and make them suffer. Change Schools smilies/mad.gif smilies/mad.gif smilies/mad.gif smilies/mad.gif smilies/mad.gif

Luinalatawen

03-07-2003, 05:18 PM

Oh my Illuvatar!! That is so stupid to ban a book from school. I mean, c'mon, don't they want students to read for pleasure? Usually they ban gameboys and other electronic stuff. But Tolkien, of all writers, most influential in the fantasy genre... That's preposterous!! ARRRGGGGGHHHH!! This should never happen to ANYONE!!

Lalaith

03-07-2003, 05:20 PM

Ban Tolkien! Er...who *is* Tolkien?
The examples of ignorance, intolerance and bigotry within the US education system that the young people posting on this thread have encountered would be hilarious were they not also deeply depressing, and frankly, scary.
And it is not just about Tolkien. Book banning and even book burning of all kinds of literature is becoming increasingly common in the United States and this is something that frightens me. It is linked to the rise of right-wing religious fundamentalism and the way Orcs like Rush Limbaugh have taken control of the airwaves.

Meoshi

03-07-2003, 06:02 PM

Religious fundamentalism has always been here. But as for SANE religious fundamentalists, we mostly stay quiet, don't protest anything, use rational language, and fervently hope that people like Jerry Falwell and Rush Limbaugh will go hide out in the mountains and stop inadvertantly slandering our cause. The Harry Potter thing kind of makes me both amused and sad. Amused that these people actually believe all the crazy things said about those great books, and sad for the same reason.

Pervinca Burrows from Combe

03-08-2003, 08:48 AM

Harry Potter and LOTR are not bad books at all. My friend and i were talking about this topic with Harry Potter and its not the Author trying to make us believe in magic it's the message that she trying to get through. For LOTR , Tolkien was a christen wasn't he? and arn't some of his topics based on the bible? i don't think any principal should bann a book unless thy've read it!

[ March 08, 2003: Message edited by: Pervinca Burrows from Combe ]

Lyra Greenleaf

03-08-2003, 11:13 AM

in a magazine at my church they had a discussion thing about whether harry potter was good or bad for christian values. i have to say it's good, or at least nuetral. i have this book about christian values in lord of the rings which is really REALLY good. this is obviously ignorance of what is really in these books

Meoshi

03-08-2003, 12:42 PM

Right. They're great books, and it's absolutely silly to say that Harry Potter or LOTR are 'evil'. A friend of mine has parents who fervently believe that Harry Potter is leading kids to Satanism because an article they got via email said so. Of course we tried to tell them that it was originally from the Onion, but they aren't listening. smilies/frown.gif

Ithaeliel

03-08-2003, 07:59 PM

"Middle-earth is demonic, racist, sexist, contains homosexuality and beastiality and is evil"

I can understand most of those, but beastiality and evilness? Where do they get that?!

I also can't understand where they get the homosexuality. Unless people are enough of prudes to actually take the "Shire? GAY?! But that will lead them to Sam's house!" jokes that are so often referred to, there are no homosexual or bisexual characters in LotR (and besides- what's wrong with it?!). Is it just me, or does anyone see a frightening return of Puritan ideals in society, judging by what is being said about the Lord the Rings...?

TheBladeThatWasBroken

03-08-2003, 08:41 PM

on the contrary...my school encourages works of Tolkien, my english teacher even gives out xtra credit for reading them cuz they're classics

but...your school's a freak (erm, your principle might make more sense...)

hobbit punk

03-10-2003, 07:41 PM

@Furry-footed Flatfoot the Hobbit
The place that seems to ban most books is the US. Books like To Kill a Mockingbird, Animal Farm, Catcher in the Rye, Lord of the Flies to name a few. In all cases, especially the one with LOTR, I feel this is a needless form of censorship and goes against your right of freedom of expression. Your principal has no right to tell you what books you can and can't read in school. It is not offensive material nor is it promoting hate or violence. I think you could fight this and win and I know you would have the support of everyone on here.

deMEnTEd3005

03-12-2003, 11:07 AM

That sux man idk wat id do if my principle banned lotr they are the best bboks ever!

Estelyn Telcontar

03-12-2003, 11:33 AM

http://www.barrowdowns.com/images/skwerlz02.jpg

Lucinda

04-15-2003, 01:33 AM

Good lord, I go to a school in a MUSLIM country! Really strict and all.We're forbidden to talk about any other religeon than islam except in RE and French, which muslim students dont take. But they dont Ban books! Banning Noughts and crosses is even stupider than Banning Tolkien! and these are schools in the US? The country famed for free speech?!

Annalaliath

04-15-2003, 10:27 AM

dude if they ban Tolkien they ban CS Lewis and then they can ban Pilgrims Progress and then on to the rest such as Frank Peretty. These all have "demons" in them but they are on the evil side so you should let your principle know about the "demons" Peretty or Pilgrims Progress. And yes give him that wonderfull book of Finding the Lord in the Lord of the Rings. I do think that your mother might help you in this and do it for you. she seems to be on your side. Have talk to the guy on these matters. I do not think it is good to read books when you need to pay attention. But to ban them with such an excuse ad that is begining to sound like Creon in Sophoclese Antigony. So have someone like mom talk some dende to him and then write a letter to the paper and then call up the radio station he listens to and see if you can get air time.

Ainaserkewen

04-15-2003, 01:57 PM

What!!!!
That's insane!!!!
Your school is nuts, why should fiction books be banned from schools? It's just like that whole Harry Potter=Witch Craft=Wiccanism which apperently is evil.
I have a friend who is Wiccan, he's not evil or crazy or nothing, he's normal but it's his religion, he believes in different things. I don't know if someone has already sujested this, but write a petition, get some attention, actually sit this guy down and get him to read the book. After all, it's hypocricy to judge something so harshly when you havn't researched it.

kittiewhirl1677

04-15-2003, 02:25 PM

W-O-W!!! OMG!!! HOW DARE YOUR PRINCIPAL BAN TOLKIEN??? Wow, my English teacher ENCOURAGES me to read more LOTR and write more journal entries on it. When I was supposed to memorize a poem for a project, he said memorizing a LOTR poem was a good idea. I don't know, but all the schools in my state allow, even encourage Tolkien.

How can anyone be so anti-Tolkienistic??? I didn't even realize how terrible people can be until now! smilies/eek.gif

Cherie Centaur

04-15-2003, 02:47 PM

I can't believe this! It is utterly wrong and I completely agree with Ainaserkewen. It's all about the bogus debate about Harry Potter! GRRR! smilies/mad.gif smilies/mad.gif smilies/mad.gif
Thankfully, my school isn't banning any books. They even have it on Accelerated Reader. They want us to read it! I hope your argument suceeds. I'm rooting for you. smilies/wink.gif

Cherie

Novhloke

04-15-2003, 06:05 PM

due to the seemingless millions of LotR fans, if this "banning" becams nation, none the less WORLD wide banning(for example Harry Potter) i have strong conclusions of Riots and Protest of this Unconstitutional act.

In my opinion, the literature and characters in LotR(including demons or black creatures created by Tolkien) actually inspire one to write. And the language used in the books actually teaches.

The only thing in my opinion to match LotR is Dune, and Frank Herbert and Tolkien could have been close friends if they hadnt lived 50,000 miles away from eachother.

If Tolkiens writing is to be banned then why is not Beatrice Sparks books to be banned? her books are full of drugs, satanicism, and suicide.

This may have gotten off topic, im sorry.

Annalaliath

04-16-2003, 05:34 PM

I talked to my Libraian at my university know about this. she has looked into this and all she can find are good things about Tolkien. My grandmother says that its these little legalistic christain schools that do this kind of thing and that among other things is why i hated the private scholl i went to. but anyway she said that was the whole legalizime issue. But still you must protest if we have to me and my cohorts here will find any school banning Tolkien and we will send a letter with the signatures of almost my entire campuse, plus main campus and most of my church and freinds! this cannot be alowed to endure!!!!!!!!!!!! these evil people must be stopped or it eill take over the world. Just like those people who were saying that ROTC was bad, this gets me sooooooo madddd!!!!!!!!!

the guy who be short

04-17-2003, 11:13 AM

friend had Noughts And Crosses confiscated because it was 'too graphic'

i read noughts and crosses for thereading group (literary fans) and it is not graphic. there is one sex scene that is not detailed at all, and just basically states they had sex. how foolish

as for harry potter... it has wonderful morals, like the lord of the rings, just put more simplistically. it does not support the 'black arts', its all white magic fighting evil.

as for lord of the rings... dont get me started. Aran, i think you should put together a petition. something like "we believe the lord of the rings to be a non-sexist, non-racist, unevil book. we demand you read it before condemning it, as it has wonderful morals. jrrt was a devout catholic...blah blah"
you get the idea. we would all sign it.
p.s., Aran, whats your full name? i remember coming across it somewhere... and what does it mean? i know aran means king or royalty

the guy who be short

04-17-2003, 11:16 AM

or complaim to a teacher who likes it (just thought of this). surely any decent librarian would love the lord of the rings? or english teachers

the guy who be short

04-17-2003, 11:20 AM

i keep getting more ideas, im on a roll! you live in america, right? inform your teacher that america is the land of freedom, and you should have the right to do whatever you want. put that on the petition you are making.

Annalaliath

04-17-2003, 03:13 PM

i know that lots of people here at my school would sighnit heack i think the state would sign it, well those who are literate. I could get the whole of Sante Fe involved.

The Only Real Estel

04-18-2003, 01:12 AM

Demonology? They better sure as heck not let kids read Harry Potter than, that'd be worse than LOTR! This guy sounds like a basket case, does he have any affiliation with a group called ATI (Advanced Training Istitute)? This sounds like something they would do! Grrrr. Go on strike if all else fails, have him stick that in his pipe and smoke it! smilies/mad.gif

Rumil

04-18-2003, 07:51 PM

I must say that I'm extemely distressed that in a such an advanced country as the USA, schools are banning inoffensive books. (By this I mean both JRRT and JKR).

The only advice I can give you is to change schools, because if they're so shortsighted as to imagine that these books could harm their students, they obviously have such a weak grip on reality that their teaching abilities must be seriously suspect.

Naturally, this is of little use if you are a schoolkid, (and I'd encourage you to learn whatever you can while you're there). However, I'd imagine that if you could mobilise the support of school governors and parents and present well-supported arguments to them (see various threads about LoTR and Religion on this site for examples), reasonable people should come around to our view.

I must say this issue really makes me angry. Any book contains the thoughts of an individual human being and is therefore worthy of respect, or at least a fair assessment from society. Fair enough, if they have 'adult' themes, they should not be available to minors, but Lord of the Rings contains nothing illicit in my view (and the views of the vast majority).

In my book, Religious fundamentalism presents an infinitely greater danger to the world (9/11 etc) than any fantasy fiction. (Btw. is the word fundamentalism derived from fundament + mental?)

What next, are they going to burn Farenheit 451 ?

Niluial

04-19-2003, 08:15 AM

I can’t believe what I have just read! A school ban one of the best books in the world? I do not understand! My teachers encourage me to read Tolkien books no matter how many times I have read his books. His books are imaginative, creative, amazing literature and tons more! It should be a law that every person must have a Tolkien book on their bookshelf! Well that’s what I think…. smilies/wink.gif. I still don’t understand why a school would ban such an educational book. I learn more from Tolkien that I actually do at school. I still can’t believe it.

Encaitare

06-14-2005, 11:31 AM

What next, are they going to burn Farenheit 451 ?

I can just see it on Jon Stewart... "In a stunning fit of irony, schools nationwide decided to burn a book about book burning." :rolleyes:

Does anyone know if there actually have been any cases of burning LotR? I sincerely hope not, though I know that HP has been burned by some, and the two seem to be put into the same category by these same types of people.

Morsul the Dark

06-14-2005, 11:46 AM

Well luckly for me my school(or old school I graduated last WEDnesday go me woohoo) was full of Tolkienists and teachers are to however then we have teachers of english nontheless claiming because its fantasy it has no credibility as literature and is for only children....

I showed one of them this site they claimed we overcomplicated the story then handed me an essay on the meaing of to be or not to be in a modern world of 10 or more paragraphs...anyone say hypacrit?

Elentari_Elbereth

06-18-2005, 11:58 AM

Ha!! Guess what!!!!! I finally have some results from this huge thing that has been happening at my school. My principle, stupid as he is, thought the book my friend was reading was HARRY POTTER!!!! Lol!!!!!!

It turns out he has nothing against J.R.R. Tolkien at all. Lol. So everything is fine. We can read our books now, and we dont have to worry about anything. Isn't it funny after all this, it all turns out to be some stupid misunderstanding. But thanks to all of you who stuck up for me this whole time. smilies/biggrin.gif

Oh my Gosh! what a nightmare you just went through! I was beginning to think your principal was morgoth himself!

At my school (it's a christian school ) LotR is used in examples during english, is allowed for book reports, and I have been asked to explain things about it during class, and my teacher had a big paper written out about why harry potter is truly evil and LotR is not. LotR is encouraged to be read here! :)

I live in North Carolina also.. 30 minutes or so north of Charlotte.